In The Huddle
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In The Huddle
EP#59: The World of East Coast Ivy League Water Polo with Brown University's Recruiting Coordinator Petar Momcilovic
Today’s episode explores the intricate world of Ivy League water polo recruitment, featuring insights from Coach Petar Momcilovic of Brown University. Listeners will get to hear Coach Momcilovic discuss the much talked about Junior Olympics, the importance of researching these universities before meeting with a coach. We dissect the infamous June 15th date in college recruiting and what Brown is looking for in a highlight reel. Claire and Coach Momcilovic also chat about the evolving landscape of East Coast vs West Coast Water Polo, a common question we get at events like AYC! Coach Momcilovic also discusses Claire's favourite line: "the earlier you start the better"
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Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of In the Huddle. I am your host, claire Mulligan, and we have a very exciting guest with us today. All the way from Brown University we have Coach Pitar Momsilovic and he is the assistant coach of both the men's and the women's water polo teams at Brown. He's the player development coordinator, recruiting coordinator for men and assistant coach for operations. Thank you very much for joining us, coach Momsilovic.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me today so I'm very excited to talk to you because, as someone who's very, very familiar with australian water polo, I think you're going to be a fantastic guest for everyone to listen to. You were here most recently last year watching the australian youth championships, so I think you'll be really good for everyone listening to hear your thoughts on ayc as a whole, the difference between australian and american water polo, hobby league recruiting and all the different things that you've learned about coaching and recruiting and your time at brown perfect.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I spent um I was at ayc last year and the uh the year before I wasn and I was just in Brisbane visiting some clubs. It was an experience, very good experience. I got to see a lot of water polo, much smaller than what we have over here with the Junior Olympics, but much easier to get around.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a good segue to talking about Junior Olympics. We'll just actually start right with that. We get a lot of athletes that come up to us at AYC as well as email us and call us about Junior Olympics, and Junior Olympics has become quite popular for a lot of Australians to fly over and do so I was wondering if you could chat with us about your thoughts on Junior Olympics benefits, cons, time that you should be training, worthwhileness of going as a whole um.
Speaker 3:I think the starting point has to be with the new rule that was introduced um last summer, with um only having limited um internationals on your roster. Um, it doesn't affect dual citizens. I know a few Australians who are dual citizens, so it doesn't affect them. But teams and clubs are limited to how many internationals they can have on their roster because a lot of teams are bringing in a lot of internationals. But overall, it's an amazing event. It's an experience. It's probably three, four times bigger than AYC and it's a busy schedule. I think it gives you an opportunity to play water polo, experience different water polo, while also being out here. Out here um I. I know a few recruits I've spoke to in the past have spent weeks out here training with the club that they're going to play with. I think it is beneficial in that sense, especially if they're investing the time in you and offering you that spot um. But again, it kind of the cons of it is it's such a big event that if you're expecting a college coach to be at your pool deck, it might not work out that way, um. But at the same time, if you are out here training um, we are in and out of california, especially the east coast schools, um, so we could always pop into a training session, um, we could always see you at a one-off game before junior olympics or any other tournaments leading up to junior olympics that most um clubs participate in. Um. So it has. It has its downsides, but it also has its benefits.
Speaker 3:Um, again, just kind of circling back to the getting in front of college coaches. At the day before junior olympics starts, there is the um meet and greet with the college coaches. So all seniors um have the opportunity to have a meet and greet with all the college coaches that are attending the meet and greet session. It's a good opportunity to meet, meet college coaches. Give them your resume, your high school transcripts, put them in the direction of where they can find your highlight clips, videos.
Speaker 3:But when it comes to coming out to games, every coach is going to do their best. But I think the one thing that has to be kept in mind is that it's a huge event and sometimes going from one pool to another to only watch one game might be a bit hard, especially if the games are an hour drive distance away. So it's something to keep in mind. But I think the meet and greet part of it is amazing. I would highly recommend people do it, but I would also look into and explore what clubs can offer you that spot, which is going to be key, I think, from last summer and moving forward, unless something drastically changes in the rules about the rules, because I know that in the past there was some backlash about having mostly international-based teams and those teams did quite well and it didn't always go over well with the American population.
Speaker 2:So that's really good for everyone to hear and listen to. And the different showcases and ID camps and things like that and random one-off games that can happen before Junior Olympicsics. Do you have any thoughts that you want to share with athletes that are thinking, oh, I probably can't go over to junior olympics for the whole eight weeks and train and do all the tournaments, so is it possible for me to go and do a showcase or an id camp that's specifically designed for that university that I'm interested in? So could you talk a little bit about those opportunities for athletes to come show off their skills to you?
Speaker 3:I mean, once you start communicating with college coaches, um and I think we'll talk about this later, about reaching out to them you should definitely ask does your college university offer a camp or a clinic? And in most cases most do, and even if they don't, they most likely attend one hosted by another university. So I would kind of start there. I know at Brown we do um camps every summer, um for athletes, um and we anyone that's in our database of who's contacted us we reach out to them um and you can find these on university websites um smaller private companies, um like thanks, coach, five meter. Um six, eight um, and then like Thanks, coach, 5meter, 6.8.
Speaker 3:And then the back end of June, beginning of July, you have a lot of competitions leading up to Junior Olympics. I would say one of the other big ones is the Futures Super Final, which happens end of June, beginning of July. It's a massive event, probably the second biggest, near enough nearly as big as JOs. It's a good event to go out to. A lot of coaches are out there and looking back on my summer last year, I mean I was at the Oaks Christian Showcase. It's an amazing showcase to be at. Lots of coaches. They do a session for women, they do a session for men and they do it for juniors and seniors. The other one I did last summer was the San Diego Skills and Drills Another good event, Another one-two, I think. It's a one-day showcase, lots of coaches, gives you an opportunity to showcase your skills um scrimmage play, but also speak to coaches after and introduce yourself that's awesome.
Speaker 2:That's a huge list and great wealth of knowledge there for everyone, listening to the different ways that you can show who you are in the pool actually off the deck as well, like who you are as a person and a player, but also how you can showcase your skills in the water as well, because, as we talked about a lot off camera, you're not just recruiting the athlete, you're recruiting the person and making sure that the person works well for your team culturally and has a good attitude and all that kind of stuff. So that actually is a good segue into my next question, which is about a green flag for you for recruiting. So this is a question I ask everyone that I have on the podcast, but that's a college coach what is a green flag in your mind when you're recruiting someone, whether that's in a video call or through emailing or whatsapping or just general face-to-face communication, like what is a green flag for you?
Speaker 3:Um, I think ultimately, um, you are who you are athletically, you are who you are academically. Um, when you start your recruiting process, I think no team's going to turn you away. If you're a good person, if you're respectful and a good person, you're always going to be on the mind of the coach and I think that's one thing to keep in mind being humble, being a good person and just presenting that in the best way possible, whether that's through an interaction, over a phone call, zoom, if a coach ever reaches out to your club coach or anyone that you've put down as a reference, most coaches are going to be honest because they're putting their name on the line for you. So I would say always be a good person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a really good piece of advice. I feel like a lot of athletes that we work with at Study and Play are really really great people and we're very fortunate that we work with some really wonderful athletes and families and we also work with a lot of athletes that tend to be a bit on the shyer side. So someone who's listening to this podcast thinking, ok, I know I'm a good person, I know I'm a good water polo player, I'm a little bit shy. What kind of tips do you have for them with the recruitment process?
Speaker 3:a player- I'm a little bit shy. What kind of tips do you have for them with the recruitment process? Um, research, research, um what you want to study, research the schools, um that you're reaching out to, and then from there, um research the program, um what their record is, who their players are, maybe watch some some of their games, um, and then from there make a list of questions. That first phone call is always going to be nerve-wracking. You're talking to a coach of a school where you want to be as kind of like a job interview. You're going to be nervous. I think a note for the parents on that part is have those tough conversations with the kids at the dinner table, um, and run, run them through a? Um, a demo of an interview or um, ask them hard questions at the dinner table or when you're having family time and put them in a situation where they kind of ease up into it. So when they are eventually talking to a college coach, it comes is second nature yeah, that's a really good piece of advice.
Speaker 2:Talking at the dinner table my parents were big on that as well. We did lots of, lots of chats at the dinner table and I usually call those conversations with coaches uh chats, because I know interviews can be a bit of like a serious word and I always say to athletes that usually if a coach is open to having a conversation with you, they already are intrigued by you, they like you and they're more or less sussing you out to see who you are as a person and sussing out how you might be a good fit for their team. So I know that a big thing that we always say is make sure that you're asking coaches questions that you care about, that are very specific to you as a player, not questions that you think you should be asking just to ask, but really being thoughtful about the kind of questions that you want to know about based on your interests and based on your position and the school that you're speaking to and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So we always say make sure you're not asking questions that can really easily be googled, like oh, how many athletes on your current roster?
Speaker 3:yeah, I again come. I think the research part is the key. Um, get to know the team, get to know the coaches through what you can find online and everything is online. Um and then um. That first initial conversation is it's also in in a in a, even though we've been doing it for such a long time. Coaches, it is nerve wracking because you don't know how shy that person is going to be, how open they're going to ask you what you're interested in studying, what are you doing now, and just it's more to get to know you. So we establish that baseline so conversation can flow as the recruiting process goes on.
Speaker 2:Awesome.
Speaker 2:So we had a cross-country coach come on our podcast a few weeks ago and he was actually talking about how something that he's noticed in recruiting is that a lot of athletes are looking for a spot in America like a customer, like what can you do for me?
Speaker 2:Whereas he was saying it should be a lot more about exploring and learning and finding your right, your right fit, and really being open-minded and reflective and really searching. And that was a very popular podcast episode and I remember he explained the difference, he said like the customer versus the explorer, and he said that something that he can tell very much quick off the bat is if someone is kind of shopping around and trying to see what they can quote unquote get from a school, versus chatting to a coach from a school and going okay, yes, this is a great fit for me. I want to learn more about you as a coach. I want to learn more about your team. So he said a question that he encourages athletes to ask is what do you love about coaching, like what got you into coaching?
Speaker 3:so I thought I'd put you on the spot and ask you that as well um, I think the big question I've been asked kind of similar to that um, recently has been um, what do I love about Brown? Um, and I think asking a coach what they like about the school gives you an idea of what the school is like. Um, and I mean I, I, I transitioned from answering your question, from playing, into coaching and at first didn't think anything was going to come from it. Um ended up making the move out here to america and it's, and it's been amazing. Um, and I, I, I love what I do, I love coaching. It's, it's amazing, it's rewarding, um, it's um, it's tough but it it all comes together at the end of the day.
Speaker 3:But I think the question that um student students, student athletes that are looking at university should ask is what do you like about the school? Um, what, what, what, what makes your school unique? Um, I think that's a big question and if a coach stumbles or doesn't really know how invested are they really in the school and in the program, and I think that is a big thing. I think you can see the passion from the coaching side, no matter what level you're coaching, but you also want to see the passion that the coaching side, no matter what level you're coaching, but you also want to see the passion that they have for that school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, because every school is so unique and, as we are talking about off camera, there's not as many water polo teams available at schools as there are other sports, which makes the recruiting landscape for men's and women's water polo a bit different. So I think it'll be good for people listening to hear about the number of teams available across the NCAA. So just for those listening, right now we're only going to be talking about the NCAA. There's other divisions out there, but we're only going to be talking about the NCAA for this question. So for the men's and women's water polo across NCAA 1, 2, and 3, the number of teams is lower than other sports. So how, in your opinion, does that change the recruitment process, say for a water polo player, versus like a basketball player, where there's thousands of teams?
Speaker 3:versus like a basketball player, where there's thousands of teams. Yeah, so for across Division I, ii and III, you have about 52 men's programs and then on the women's side you have around about 65 programs total. So it's much, much less than your basketballs, your footballs, american football teams. So you have to keep that in mind and I think the key thing here is also the scholarship side aspects of it, because when you think about American universities and playing at an NCAA school, you think, oh, every school has the maximum amount of scholarships and I'm going to go into it thinking I'm going to get a full scholarship, which, when we talk about scholarships, we have to be realistic of what's really out there and how many programs actually offer water polo for both men and women.
Speaker 2:That's for sure, and the fact that there's a new rule. That's happened with the 24 scholarships. So could you talk a bit about?
Speaker 3:that as well with the NCAA or the agreement. It affects them. So mainly the top four schools where they're limited to 24 on the roster places like Brown, division II and Division III schools. It's not going to affect us. Those schools didn't buy into it into the payout so they're not limited by that 24. Some of the bigger division one schools, um, did and it and it is going to affect them. They're going to be capped at 24. So I think the next year, two years, is going to be interesting in the way that recruiting is done, especially because if the biggest schools where everyone wants to be at, the well-known ones, if they're capped at 24, it's going to be interesting in how that spreads out in terms of recruiting where some recruits might not have been available in the past and they might have been on a roster of 30 plus. Now they might not get that opportunity so they might be looking elsewhere. A roster of 30 plus Now they might not get that opportunity, so they might be looking elsewhere, especially the East Coast.
Speaker 2:Okay, and that's speaking of East Coast versus West Coast as well. We get a lot of athletes that come up to us, and families as well, that, either based on people's opinions or research, they really are only focusing on the West Coast. Research they really are only focusing on the west coast. So I'm curious to know why you think most people internationally really focus on the west coast and what you might be able to talk about with the benefits of playing on the east coast as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, I think when you think about woods polar, you think of californ, america. Realistically, everyone thinks about California, everyone thinks about the Big Four and playing in an NCAA championship. I think what recruits have to be open to is the East Coast. I mean, this year Fordham made it to the semifinal, lost in overtime to USC. This year Fordham made it to the semifinal, lost in overtime to USC. The year before that, princeton made it to the semifinal On the women's side. Michigan's there, princeton's there. The Ivies like Harvard and Brown are there. This past season we were in that championship game against Princeton Lost. They went to the NCAA.
Speaker 3:But I think the water polo on the East Coast is on a big rise. Same coaching you're going to get as the West Coast, no different Very talented coaches on the East Coast. And I think East Coast water polo at the college level is growing and has been growing for the last few years, five-plus years. That recruits should be open to it. You're not going to get less of an experience. Maybe in some cases you're going to get a better experience of, maybe a better education, better water polo experience, but still get that same high level.
Speaker 3:Looking at Brown, I mean we make at least two trips out to the West Coast to play teams. We host tournaments, big tournaments, at our pool where we invite big West Coast teams. We had Pacific Cal Baptist this year, our home tournament. Again Cal Baptist another school that made it out made it to the ncaa championship and we play long beach, I know. Looking ahead now to the spring, our women are playing usc um. So you, you're not going to miss out on playing the big teams and you're still going to get the same level of coaching yes, that's the big one.
Speaker 2:You're not going to get the same level of coaching. Yes, that's the big one, you're not going to miss out on playing the big teams. That's a big thing that a lot of the athletes that we speak to think will happen if they go to the East Coast, and I usually will pull up a schedule and show them. Look, there's lots of invitationals where you can play against these teams, even if they're not in your conference and they're not in your geographical area. In general, you can go and really have the experience to play against them. So that's huge.
Speaker 2:And with the different levels of competition, we have a lot of athletes that chat to us and chat to friends as well, and there's a misconception that you need to be on the Australian national team to be able to play in America in the college system. So we always say, no, that's definitely not the case. It just happens to be. A lot of national team players will go and play, but there's lots and lots of different ways that you can go and play in college. So what would you say to someone who might say I only want to go to college if it's Division One in California who might?
Speaker 3:say I only want to go to college if it's Division I in California. Open your mind a bit more to what options are out there. I think the recruiting process is tough. I think you have to find the right school for you. You have obviously you're leaving Australia, you're traveling far I think one key thing to take into mind do you want to be one flight away or do you want to be two flights away, depending if you're on the West Coast or the East Coast? What kind of education do you want to get? Do you want to experience something new? Or do you want to be in California, out in the sun, or do you want to be somewhere like the northeast, in Providence, where it's cold but you also have an amazing time even though it's cold in the winters?
Speaker 3:I think when you're doing that research for schools you have to think about do they offer what you want to study? Again, distance from home, again distance from home. And then the program itself. Is that something that you're interested in? And playing at that program and the wide range of schools you have, even in California and the East Coast LA, they might be up in the middle of nowhere. Same on the East Coast, you might be in New York or you might be in the middle of Pennsylvania. So you have to really do your research on what kind of school you want, what kind of experience you want to get out of it.
Speaker 3:In terms of the national team stuff, it's always helpful it always grabs the attention of the coach if you're on the national team or have been in the pipeline, but it's not a requirement. There are enough players out here that haven't been on national teams, even in Europe or in Australia or New Zealand, that still have an amazing experience, still get something from it, or that weren't even considered for a national team prior to coming to America but have worked with amazing coaches out here and then managed to work their way into a national team. I I don't think is you should count yourself off if you're not on a national team. I think you should. My mindset would be prove everyone wrong.
Speaker 2:Come out here, have the best time, the best experience, work hard and see where it takes you I love that the prove everything wrong, prove everyone wrong mentality as well, because I think that that can be. The recruitment process can be a bit of a roller coaster for some people, for sure, but I think it's a really wonderful way to shift your mindset and go okay, maybe I wasn't chosen for the national team and I thought I should have been. Maybe I wasn't chosen for the state team and I thought I should have been. Maybe I wasn't chosen for the state team and I thought I should have been. I'm going to work really really hard and prove to myself and prove to others that I deserve this opportunity. I think the mindset shift can be really really good, because there's so much that you can take personally about this recruitment process.
Speaker 2:But there's also a lot of stuff as we were talking about off camera that has nothing to do with the athlete and maybe they started quite late, maybe they didn't take the correct classes that they needed to to be NCAA eligible and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I think that something that I wanted to talk to you about and wanted the people listening to this podcast to learn about is the differences between recruiting for water polo at a non-ivy league school versus an ivy league school. So I thought it would be good to chat with you about at an ivy league water polo school. How does the recruitment process differ from a non-ivy league water polo school?
Speaker 3:yeah. So I worked at two other programs before this, a Division I and a Division II program before coming to Brown, which is a Division I school. It differs in the sense of academics you could be the best player, but if your academics are not at the level they need to be at, then the recruitment process becomes very hard in that sense. I think the other part of it is when you start looking and researching schools and speaking to coaches is asking whether they require SATs or ACTs, like right now, at least from my knowledge I know, brown requires SATs or ACTs, whereas Harvard and Princeton the other two IVs that offer awards, polo, as far as I'm aware right now, don't require the tests. So it's reaching out and speaking to the coach and finding out do I need to do the test as part of the admissions process?
Speaker 3:In terms of academics, um, you, you want to. You want to be a good student. Um, I mean I'm, when I'm looking at transcripts, mainly a's, couple b's, but you're taking the most challenging classes that the school offers and trying your best. It's not impossible. But academically, I think at the Ivy League level, you have to be academically there as well as athletically, and that's a huge part of it, and it's the same at the other two schools where I worked at before um. Just because of the way their scholarship models at the time were set up. Again, the better your academics doesn't matter if it's an ivy league school or a non-ivy league school. It opens more doors, um, for you in terms of scholarships and opportunities that you're going to get.
Speaker 3:So I think, explore it. Explore every option, do your research, ask the right questions and then find out what the academic side is for the schools that you're interested in. Not to discourage anyone that might have had a bad start in high school. There's a million doors open for you. Still, there is, I think, there's the junior college route. There's also schools that will take you if you haven't had the best start when you started out high school. So don't count yourself off because your grades might not be there. You might have to do a year or two at a junior college or another school. Get your grades up and then look to maybe transfer. If you're looking at other schools, maybe your first choice was somewhere else and you didn't get that.
Speaker 2:That's all really good advice and with the scholarship allocation and the scholarship process, can you talk about how other schools in the NCAA in Division I and Division II can offer a combination of different scholarships and how the Ivy League system is different to that?
Speaker 3:24 roster rule. They increased scholarships to a maximum of 24, whereas before it was 4.5 for the men, um eight for the women, now it's 24 across the board. Not saying that it doesn't mean that every school has that or is even going to be close to having that. Um, whatever that athletic department allocates, you is what you have, um and you, you, you might have to fundraise for the rest of it, um to have that. So don't go in the mindset of oh, I've heard that everyone has 24 scholarships. Now, that isn't the case. Um.
Speaker 3:And then, in terms of, obviously, what schools offer, I mean, you have um academic scholarships, um, you might have some kind of need-based scholarships and then there might be some international scholarships available as well. It really varies from school to school. That's why, when starting that conversation with a coach asking them what scholarships do you offer athletically, academically, anything else? At Brown we don't have athletic scholarships, even though we're a Division I program. Everything is need-based. So it's going to come down to need-based and what that individual's needs are, and you might end up having everything covered or might have to pay something a little bit covered um, or might have to pay something a little bit um in most cases, knowing where our athletes are coming from, they might have everything covered um, so it I would get the ivy league question.
Speaker 3:Answer is need base um the rest of the ncaa um and against. There are other schools that also do need base as well. Um, but it's a question you have to ask the coach. Um academic athletic need base. What are my options? This is my budget um, and then from there, having a transparent conversation with the coach about the budget um, what you can afford, what you can't afford, and going from there.
Speaker 2:I feel like we could have a completely separate podcast just on Ivy League recruiting across all sports.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think we should definitely do one and maybe bring the other two schools into the podcast and do a whole Ivy League separate podcast.
Speaker 2:For sure, it's a very different system, but it's a nice one so for highlight reels, I'm going to hop right into the highlight reels because we get asked this question a lot with all sports. But with the highlight reels that you might get from a recruitment questionnaire or sent to you directly, what are things that you really enjoy seeing in highlight reels and what are things that are a bit of a red flag in highlight reels?
Speaker 3:The best way to put it is showcase your best attributes, show us your defense, show us your offense, throw in a few penalties. Just don't make a full four-minute clip of just you shooting penalties. And when you are doing the highlight reels, just make sure you clearly label who you are. I get a lot of highlight reels I'm, I'm blue cap number four, and the video quality isn't the best. Um, so an arrow or a circle, just so we can keep track of you. Um I? I mean I have athletes that send me full game videos and I have athletes that send me a few minute highlight reels from games. You can do both. Both are welcome, both are good. There's no disadvantage. Sometimes, with our busy schedule, a highlight reel is easier and faster to watch than sitting down and watching a full game, sitting down and watching a full game. But just totally mark who you are. Showcase your best attributes, show us your defense, show us your offense.
Speaker 2:Show us everything that makes you the best player possible. That's great. And I also remember speaking to I think it was one of the other Division I men's coaches and he was saying that he also is watching the defenders. If you're playing offense, he's watching the defenders and seeing the level of the defenders and skipping forward if he sees that they're hardly defending you at all kind of thing. So I think that's important to note. And then also for the full game footage, making sure that that's clearly labeled as well. So I know that some people listening might just go oh, I'm just going to send the Brown coaches a full game with no context. I think it's also really important to make sure you're identified in the full games as well, with the caption or something that you're sending through to the coaches so they're not confused.
Speaker 3:I would, in the full game videos, I, every soul, every possession that you're involved in just highlight who you are, um, because you, we might be watching it for 10 minutes and you weren't in for 10 minutes, um, so it's really like throughout the whole game highlighting who you are and also giving some context. This is a game I played for state finals. It's a high school game. For this it's a. It was a game, semi-final game of this, or a group game for that. Um, I think that that's key for context, because most times we we won't know who you're playing against, what level they are. Um, I will be able to tell quickly, but, um, just giving us context and and be honest with yourself when sending that through. If, if you're, hey, coach, I played in a semi-final game and I only drew one exclusion and got one goal and that and you highlight those two things rather than saying, hey, coach, we played against team x and team x was really bad, but we don't know that and you scored 10 goals. It's going to be easy to tell.
Speaker 2:So just just be honest and be transparent in the whole process, especially with the highlights yeah, I like that because I actually was talking to a coach a couple of years ago about something that I did in my recruitment process and I actually would send clips to coaches and say, hey, reviewing this clip back, I should have done this.
Speaker 2:And I've spoken to my coach about it and I know that next time, instead of doing X, I'm going to do Y to make sure that I'm able to beat the player better.
Speaker 2:And I remember speaking to a coach about that on a call and he was kind of blown away that that was something that I did. But I said to him well, that's something that I did because I think it's really important for game IQ and like the IQ of your sport, that you know, hey, I made a mistake here, but I know in the future I should have done this, or I was a bit nervous here, but I should have had a bit more confidence to back myself, to go myself, kind of thing. So I feel like there's lots of different ways to send send footage and to send clips and I actually had a coach say to me as well a division one men's water polo coach that he's had some people email him and lie about teams that they represented saying oh yeah, I'm on the national team and I I remember my mind being blown at that because I couldn't believe that someone would lie about them representing a team at the end.
Speaker 3:You could just google it yeah, I mean, look, um, there's a lot of stories out there about people who have sent clips and videos of them not actually playing um, of saying that they're one thing and they're not. It's a very, I think with with where we are with communication and everything, and how small the water polo community is um worldwide. Um, more than likely, I'm going to reach out to someone that knows someone if I don't know them and I'm going to find out really quick. Um, I, I'm with, I do a lot of the international recruits in a brown and I and I get a lot of the international recruits um emails and the first thing is I that I do is email um coaches in that country, or coaches that I know, and ask the questions of who who is person?
Speaker 3:Is this true? What they're saying? How are they as a person, how are they as a player? So the lies are going to get exposed really quick. So I'd be honest from the beginning and you shouldn't hide If you're not on the national team. You're not, it's not a big deal. You still might be an amazing player. That just didn't make the cut.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's very important for everyone listening to, to hear that for sure. I know there's also like politics and stuff that are involved in team selection, so I'm very empathetic of that as well. Can you also talk a little bit about the june 15th deadline or sorry, not deadline the like opening date that coaches are allowed to speak to athletes in division one?
Speaker 3:yeah. So june, june 15th, um is when we can start reaching out to um rising juniors um. June 15th, um of this end of their soft. After june 15th, at the end of their sophomore year, we can start speaking to rising juniors, not in person, so through text, email, phone calls. We can start that communication with rising juniors Face-to-face.
Speaker 3:I think the date off the top of my head is August 1st.
Speaker 3:So even if you're coming out to JOs as a rising junior and JOs in California happens before um and Texas happens before August 1st, I still won't be able to talk to you face to face Um.
Speaker 3:So we I mean, as as silly as it sounds, we could be standing five meters apart on on you holding a phone and me holding a phone and having a conversation, but it's it won't be face to face Um, but I, june 15th is that key date where you can start having conversations over phone call, text and email.
Speaker 3:I would recommend reaching out before that date. So if you're a um freshman or a sophomore in high school I don't know what that translates to in Australia, but if you're a freshman or a sophomore in high school, you can still reach out to coaches. You can send an email to a coach saying hey, coach, I'm class of this and this my position is. This small introduction about yourself attach your resume, um, your highlight reel and your grades and you're just going to be in our system. So when june 15 comes and we send out an email to everyone that's in that class, you can start communicating with us and you can send us as many emails as you want. You're just not going to get a reply because of the ncaa rules yeah, that's what I always say to everyone.
Speaker 2:I think it's definitely a one-way communication before june 15th, and I always say that coaches like to hear from you and want to get to know you before june 15th. So when june 15th rolls around they're not like, oh, who are you? But yeah, so the conversion for Australia is grade nine and grade 10. So usually June 15th of grade 11 is when they're able to start talking to coaches. Yeah, so grade 11. I know, I think it's different in New Zealand as well, but in Australia it's grade nine and 10 is freshmen and sophomore, grade 11 is junior and grade 12 is senior. Thank you for explaining that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we've had this conversation before the sooner you start, the better. The sooner you're going to be on the radar, the sooner you're going to be in the system, especially now with the roster caps and everything.
Speaker 2:The sooner you start the process, the much easier and better it's going to be for you overall yeah, I was going to text you because we started working with the grade eight water polo player and I was like, yes, good, good, good good get amongst it get started, so good.
Speaker 2:uh, can we also talk a little bit about red shirting? Because I know that red shirting comes up with some of the division one schools, especially it seems to be in California, and I know that some of the rules have changed recently for some of the schools about like roster sizes and scholarship allocations and things like that. But I remember having a conversation at AYC with a mom of a daughter who's playing in California in division I, and her daughter was going through the recruitment process and was being told by a couple of the high-level D1s that she would probably be redshirting her first year and she wasn't okay with that. So she chose a program that said to her that she would have the option to play. So can you talk a little bit about what redshirting is and how to suss out as an athlete if you would be redshirting or would be playing?
Speaker 3:um, I, I think I it might all change now with everything that's happening with the ncaa and how that's going to affect everyone. Um, but it's not always a bad thing If a coach is offering you a spot and they've openly told you that you might redshirt. It might benefit you in the long run because it gives you a year of development with the team. You can still practice with the team and be around the team. You just won't play any of the games. And if you're coming in and you might be a raw athlete who's good but needs a year under their belt, a coach might say that to you.
Speaker 3:Um, I think, in terms of when you're speaking to coaches have asking that tough question is there a tryout for the team? Is there not a tryout for the team? And that's kind of kind of going to indicate to you if there is or if there isn't, whether you're going to have to redshirt or not. Again, years past, if you look at rosters and they have 30-plus athletes on the roster, you might want to think about the possibility of redshirting, because if you've got 30 athletes and they're bringing in another five to ten, that roster is still going to be at 30 plus, so you might not be getting the playing time if you don't come in and prove yourself and you might be doing that redshirt year. Um, look at rosters. Have the. Have a tough conversation with the school, the coach that you're speaking to about. Will I have to redshirt? Is there a tryout If I don't make the team? And once I try out, am I still on the team? If I'm still on the team, do I have to redshirt? So have those tough conversations.
Speaker 2:But again, right now I think that might be all up in the air until everyone kind of knows what's going to happen with the 24 limit yeah, there seems to have been so much change recently, over the last, I'd say, like three, four months, that the landscape of recruiting has changed a fair bit across a lot of different sports, and I was actually saying on our, our social media, yesterday it's even more important to have these tough conversations because if someone's nervous to ask a coach, that I feel like it's a lose-lose because you might accept a spot and then, get to the campus and go oh wait, this is not what we talked about, or what I thought we had talked about.
Speaker 2:so yeah, big piece of advice everyone listening make sure that you're asking the conversations and getting the information that you need out of the conversation with the coach, so that you're asking the conversations and getting the information that you need out of the conversation with the coach, so that you don't show up on campus and it's completely different to what you thought you had talked about, or if you hadn't talked about it and was hoping that it would turn out a certain way. That you not talking about it means that it's not what you thought.
Speaker 3:And I think the research part is key. I know I've mentioned it a bunch of times research, research. If you're a goalkeeper, look at a team how many goalkeepers do they have, what grade are those goalkeepers in? And ask the coach are you recruiting a goalkeeper for my class, for class of 2025,? Are you recruiting a goalkeeper? And a coach is going to tell you honestly no, we are you recruiting a goalkeeper? And a coach is going to tell you honestly, no, we're not recruiting a goalkeeper.
Speaker 3:Um, if you do get into the school, you can try out for the team. Um and have that tough conversation um again with the ivs. Um, we're limited to how many spots we support, spots we can offer each year. So one of the first questions you might want to ask is coach, how many recruiting spots do you have at the Ivy League level and what positions are you recruiting? And then go from there and see whether it's going to be the right fit, because if they have five goalkeepers and they're all spread out, you're competing against five, five people when you get there yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:and even asking like, who are you looking to replace? Because I remember talking to a d1 men's water polo coach who I said, oh, what are your recruiting needs looking like for the next two years? And he goes, oh, we're looking to replace the fastest swimmer on our team, who's six seven. And I was like, oh great, I don't know if I've ever worked with anybody who is six foot seven, so don't know if I'll be able to help you with that one, but that kind of stuff it's like. I think people listening need to remember that there's so much competition within the recruitment world. So if you really think that you're well suited for a team, there might be a situation where that coach is looking to replace your position with someone who's six seven and looks like they're 35 years old compared to a six foot 18 year old from Australia. So I think that's also a good thing to remember, like context and things out of your control as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's one of my favorite stories to tell. Well, thank you very much for all of your insight to the water polo recruitment world and thank you for taking your time. I know that you're traveling with your team right now, so everyone listening I'm sure appreciates all of your wisdom that you shared with us today about women's and men's water polo, the recruitment process, Ivy League recruiting, getting started early, making sure you're researching, asking the tough questions. But yeah, thank you very much, Coach Momslevich, and I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Thank you. It's a pleasure it's always a pleasure speaking to you and working with you guys at Study Play. I mean over the last few years I've got some amazing players from you guys, so hopefully this helps everyone and any questions that come from it reach out and I'll be happy to answer. And then hopefully we can do an ivy league session with all the coaches and see how that goes down sounds good.
Speaker 2:Thanks again.