In The Huddle
The world of US college sport is both expansive and exciting, and international student-athletes are signing up in their droves for their shot at a scholarship opportunity.
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So as you jog on the treadmill, drive to work, school or training, tune in to hear from industry leading experts, US college coaches, parents and student-athletes and learn how to best approach this pathway to maximise your opportunity and set yourself up for your most successful life.
In The Huddle
EP#60: Beyond Warm Weather: Finding Your True Fit in College Swimming with NCAA D1 Cal State Bakersfield Coach George Eglesfield
Coach George Eglesfield from NCAA D1 California State University at Bakersfield shares his journey from international student-athlete to recruiting coordinator and assistant coach, providing valuable insights for swimmers considering the US college route. His personal experience swimming at the University of Wyoming combined with his current coaching perspective offers a comprehensive view of collegiate swimming opportunities.
In this episode, Coach George shares the things the would focus on if he was a high school aged international swimming recruit, as well as tips he has for athletes getting ready to start their swimming journey this upcoming August. The infamous online platform Swim Cloud is also discussed, where Coach George emphasises the value in utilising this website when a swimmer is starting out their US college recruitment journey.
Claire asks Coach George her favourite question about red flags and green flags in college recruiting, and also delves into the prevalent priority she sees with Australian swimmers: wanting a warm climate college in Florida or California. Coach George provides his insight as to why climate considerations should be secondary to swimming program quality, academics, and scholarship opportunities.
The episode ends with Coach George discussing how the modern college swimming world is increasingly intense - times from 10 years ago would not be competitive today.
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In the Huddle was created to give student athletes, parents and coaches an inside look at the journey through US college sport and all that comes with it the demands, the experiences, the excitement and the opportunities available to our student athletes from around the world Study and Play. Usa facilitates a comprehensive, customised approach for student athletes and families for their whole journey, from their high school preparation years right through to US college graduation.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of In the Huddle. I'm your host, claire, and we are joined today by Coach George from Cal State Bakersfield Men and Women Swimming. He is the recruiting coordinator and assistant coach at cal state bankersfield in california. Coach george swam at the university wyoming setting school records. According to his bio, he is a graduate assistant coach at bryant and he is born and raised in england and spent a lot of his time in new Zealand as well. So he'll have a good perspective for everyone listening today about swimming, swimming in college, the recruiting process, what's it like to coach internationals and be an international coach himself at Cal State Bakersfield. So welcome to the podcast, coach George.
Speaker 3:Thank you guys for having me. You know I've been a former international student.
Speaker 2:I know that this is a weird process for a lot of you, so I'm happy to help out any way I can well, we have a lot of questions that our listeners and audience have sent through, so I'll definitely cover some of those questions about swimming and recruiting. But I wanted to actually start with your story of how you started in the college system and what your experience was like swimming at the University of Wyoming. So could you tell us a bit about that?
Speaker 3:well, swimming in the US kind of got put on my radar. I was at a camp in New Zealand, you know, where they probably do similar things in Australia where they just get people from all over the country to train together. We had one of those talks with someone who'd been through the college system and he was talking about what a great opportunity it was and how it allowed him to swim longer and get an education at the same time, which in some parts of the world is quite difficult because of the balance between your academics and your school. So I thought I'd look into that. I ended up working out well. I went to the University of Wyoming, which is obviously very different to new zealand and lots of different aspects. Um, you know, had a great time there, got my education, decided that I wasn't quite done with swimming at the end of it, so I left my finance degree behind um and decided to jump straight into swimming and coaching swimming for the foreseeable future and I'm still here later. So it seemed to have worked out okay awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, you can still use your finance degree for all the different budgets and scholarship allocations that you need to do for your comes in handy, but um yes, it's a bit less boring. There's less spreadsheets so how did you find the transition from New Zealand to Wyoming? And, for those listening who have no idea where Wyoming is, can you talk a bit about what Wyoming is like?
Speaker 3:So Wyoming is the least popular state in the US. There's only one four-year university there, the University of Wyoming. It's a very, very large, open plain for the lot of it. There's a lot of really beautiful outdoor things. So you've heard of Yellowstone, the Grand Tetons, that's in Wyoming, but there's also a lot of cows, a lot of space and a lot of nothing. It's also colder than you can possibly imagine in the winter and the wind is brutal. So that was a big difference. Coming from New Zealand, where it's obviously a bit more temperate and having a serious winter, I had to buy some, a lot more clothes. Uh, that was probably the biggest change. I think the other big change is, you know, swimming with a group of people who are all the same age as you, as opposed to club teams where you know you get to the age of 18 and you know half the kids on the club team are under 13. There's a bit of a gap between your maturity levels, your swimming levels and all those kind of things.
Speaker 2:So just having that team around you with the same goal and you know, same practice schedule, all those things, was, you know, a really massive improvement, uh, in the quality of life and quality of training and on that note as well, was it different and a big adjustment for you to come from swimming against everyone to then competing as a team at Wyoming, with everyone cheering everyone on trying to score points together yeah, I think that's the biggest, one of the biggest differences swimming wise and that you get because I know New Zealand.
Speaker 3:Obviously there isn't really a big team-based competition. I don't know if there's anything similar in Australia or like the other countries we're recruiting from, but most international kids are really just not used to that team-based thing. So I think it's really exciting that you're actually swimming for other people, with other people, and you know the goal is to win or lose as a team rather than it all being about you. Um. So yeah, just at practice, at meets, you go to the weight room together. You just spend your whole time doing things to be better as a team, and that camaraderie and the support you have is a massive change from what you get at home yeah, it's one of the things that a lot of our individual sport athletes talk about, even with tennis as well playing against everyone.
Speaker 2:And then getting to college and going oh you're, you're cheering everyone on, you're trying to win points together and matches together as a team. So, yeah, that's a big piece of feedback that we get from internationals going oh wow, this is amazing. You get to all be together, working for the same goal instead of individual goals. Yeah, so that's really fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think for some people that's a big change. Some people dive right in and love that team atmosphere. Some people are a little hesitant and it does take a while to sort of get them on board with. Maybe they're used to being the best kid on their team and you know there's a bunch of 15 year olds and they were so much better than them so now they're one among many.
Speaker 2:There is a little bit of a change, but most people figure it out fairly quickly well, that's a good segue into what I wanted to also ask was what is something that you've noticed that international athletes tend to struggle with adjusting to collegiate swimming?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I think the biggest thing is the team thing. Often, you know, australians and New Zealanders, I think, are probably a little bit more adaptive to it. Some of our Europeans maybe take slightly longer to get bought into the team thing. I don't know if that's like a product of slightly different club systems there, but they I mean they still figure it out within a month or two, but it just takes them slightly longer. But just the idea that you can be one among many, rather than you know a lot of the kids who come and swim D1 were probably the best kid on their club team back home. So it's a bit of a change to come and just be, you know, a medium sized fish in a big pool.
Speaker 2:Obviously some come and be the studs and the standouts, and that's great, but that definitely isn't the norm for everybody. I don't think so for someone who gets over to college and goes oh, I'm not as big of a deal here on this campus as I was on my club team or in my state or town. What kind of things have you noticed that they've had to do to adjust, and what kind of stuff as a coach have you had to potentially do to help them acclimate to that?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, it's part of being the team thing.
Speaker 3:Obviously we have our best swimmers and we have our swimmers who aren't the best swimmers, but we do need all of you to be a team Like you can't have any team with one person on it, so it's not going to work. So you know, we do need you to be a good practice player, we do need you to go to the meets and maybe you aren't going to win, but you do need to beat the other guy to get third instead of fourth, to get fifth instead of sixth, and every point does matter. And then, you know, we go to our conference meet and maybe you're not going to be a school record holder and a conference champion, but if you can get three b final swims and then win your B finals, then you're going to be contributing in a massive way and that's really important. So you might be a middle of the pack guy on the team, but you're still a valuable contributor and the team isn't going to win any meets without people who contribute at all the different levels and I think there's still space to everybody on the team.
Speaker 3:You know there's a lot of different ways to contribute. You can still make the top 10 all time at your school, you could still be a school record holder. You can be a school record holder in a relay, um, you know, or you can just be a guy who showed up every day and you're part of the team and you helped everyone else win, regardless of what you've accomplished those people listening who don't know what a conference meet is or don't know how points are scored at college, can you really quickly talk about?
Speaker 3:oh so yes, assumptions that everyone knows everything. So our conference meets like the major meet at the end of the season. It's like the big championship meet that you spend all year talking about and training for um. So you know they're probably. Our conference has six or seven teams then on the men's team and the women's team. So the top 16 in the prelims get invited back to swim at night. So the top eight scored the a final. So you get scored one through eight and then they would score more points than the b final, which gets scored nine through sixteen. So, as I'm sure your coaches probably tell you, swimming in the morning is the most important because even if you win the b final by 10 seconds, the best you'll ever get is nine.
Speaker 2:So you need to do it in the morning to get into the a final so you can get eight, got it so for the athletes listening to this thinking okay, I'm an international student, I'd like to swim in college, I'd like to help score points for my team. I have no idea where to start. I have no idea if I'm fast enough. I'm not working with anyone, like no company or anything, so I don't know exactly where my level is at. What advice do you have from for these international students of where they should kind of start targeting coaches to chat to and to reach out to?
Speaker 3:so the biggest resource that you have available for swimming is going to be swim cloud. I think it costs about 30 American dollars to set up an account there. That's absolutely worth the money and I believe I can't see what you guys see because my account's very different but you would have some sort of tool there where they would give you ideas of schools that could be a good fit for you, maybe schools that could be a long shot, maybe schools that you'd be a really big catch to, so you can sort of target those and narrow it down. Maybe you look at all of those and it gives you I don't know, 50 or 60. And you could narrow it down from there to see which ones have the major you're interested in.
Speaker 3:Maybe you want to live in a big city, maybe you want to live somewhere warm, so you can kind of narrow it down from there. Maybe you end up with a list of 20 or 30. And then you can email them directly through Swim you through swim cloud and, you know, start the conversation that way and I get emails all the time through swim cloud of people who are interested in us. Um, you know, some will be a great fit, some will be a bit of a reach um, but you know you've got to start somewhere and the more places you reach out to, the easier it's going to be to give yourself more options down the road, which is probably the biggest priority at the start of this swim cloud is your resource yeah, I love swim cloud.
Speaker 2:I think it's a great website and it's also cool to see who's committing to which schools. I think that also gives athletes a bit of a sense of what their level is, because we have athletes that use swim cloud and they speak to me before they've looked at swim cloud and go I'd like to target this, this and this school. And then they look at swim cloud and go oh okay, those schools are recruiting kids that are substantially faster than me, so it's kind of good as well in that regard. Um, but something I also wanted to point out, which our company uses any of the athletes that are working with us is very, very similar to swim cloud, where you can filter by state, you can filter by your major, you can filter by size of the student population, filter by conference, filter by cost.
Speaker 2:There's a bunch of different things that our athletes can use as well. To start, I think the biggest thing that our athletes that work with us want to know is does this school have my major, if they really know what they want to study, and then everything else kind of goes from there. But, yes, everyone listening who's not working with us, who doesn't have access to that software, swim cloud, has some of those features as well. So that would be good for any swimmer listening to have a go on swim cloud and making sure that the meets are all up to date and all your data is up to date. Your graduation class is up to date. If you have video footage that's up to date. So, with video footage as a coach, when you're receiving a recruitment video, what kind of stuff do you want to see in a swimming recruitment video?
Speaker 3:um. So we are really huge on recruiting by video? Um, we do. Typically. I mean, swimming is just a time-based sport, so if you can swim the time, you can swim the time.
Speaker 3:The biggest things we look at on the video especially like a long course video which a lot of international kids would have um is looking at your turns, because you can be a great long course swimmer and an awful short course swimmer if your turns are good. So I don't know if any of you watch like the ncaa championships or short course worlds, but like looking at gretchen walsh and caleb dressel. The majority of the races swim underwater and those guys are so talented off the wall that that's the biggest thing we're going to be looking for. And then just do you actually look like you've got some room to grow in your things or you're already perfect or there's a potential for more? Um, you know some of the things you tell us on swim club anyway, like your height and weight and foot size, those kind of things. So it's nothing really major we're looking at on video. It's a lot of small things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, sounds good and wingspan right.
Speaker 3:Looking at wingspan wingspan height, weight, wingspan shoe size is sort of the four metrics we'd look at awesome.
Speaker 2:I used to be a swimmer. I was very short, so I didn't have a large wingspan at all.
Speaker 3:Yes, Typically women come in all shapes and sizes for swimmers Men, unfortunately, and I was one of the unfortunate ones. It's better to be six feet and have massive feet, but not to be said that you can't be a great swimmer if you're not tall and have massive feet if you're not tall and have massive feet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fair enough With the recruiting that you're looking for when you're having a phone call or a video call and you're meeting with someone, whether they're an international or not. One of my favorite questions to ask coaches across all sports is what is a green flag for you when you're having a conversation with an athlete on a video call or a voice call and what's a red flag that you experience with recruiting athletes, whether that's email or phone or video or in person? What's a red flag?
Speaker 3:um, I think a red flag and obviously it's very difficult. On the phone it's just seeming like you're interested and you're happy and you have questions and you're actually acting like this is a major decision you're making in your life and so you're trying to make the best of it. We have recruited people who haven't sounded that excited on the phone and it's turned out fine because I know not everyone has the personality to be that. But you can still be a great teammate, student and athlete.
Speaker 2:No-transcript yes, everyone watching, everyone listening to this make sure you are engaged and ready to talk to a coach. I know that sounds obvious, but, yes, definitely make sure you are engaged. You've done your homework, you've looked up information about the school, you have questions ready, you're ready to go to talk to the coach. And what's the green flag that you've seen? Maybe you had a call with someone and you're like, wow, that was a really great call.
Speaker 3:The biggest green flag is sort of like you know, maybe you've looked up and you talk about one of our best swimmers and you say you know, like this kid's done really well lately, what have you done with him? Or that was really exciting when he broke the record or did the thing, um, so just you guys knowing that, or like you know you saw that our dorms are new or you saw that there was something on campus, what if you learn one little fact that you can just throw out there? It makes it look like you know what you're talking about and you might have learned that 10 seconds previously, which is totally fine, but it makes it sound to me like you're interested, you're excited, you're um, you know, you've done some research, so it's you know, you're all there yeah, that's good because a lot of the universities are exciting and I think anyone who's listening to this, that is a swimmer and wants to research universities should research more than what they have just heard about, like the big name ones.
Speaker 2:That's something that we talk about a lot on the podcast is making sure that athletes are looking at all kinds of different schools, all kinds of different information online and not over-researching or researching the wrong school, because that's happened as well for internationals they get the names of the schools mixed up.
Speaker 3:That's a huge red flag, I know. Obviously we're called CSUB and there's also UCSB, ucsd, cbu, so I understand how it's very confusing, but that's an easy one to get right and it does make you sound really stupid if you get it wrong.
Speaker 2:There are some of those, though, that are interesting, when it's like one word is different in a different order, like Pacific University or University of the Pacific, different divisions, different locations, different schools. So I kind of get when the Pacific different divisions, different locations, different schools. So I kind of get when the word is flip-flopped, like Pacific or University of the Pacific.
Speaker 3:But what you were saying about it's a very easy mistake to make, especially in this area of California where there's all the California State University of or University of California and they're all the same name and they've really only got one word in a different spot.
Speaker 1:So but yeah, it is, it's an easy one to get right as well as an easy one to get wrong.
Speaker 3:So yeah, you've done a little bit of homework that you know who you're talking to.
Speaker 2:For sure. So I was going to say UCSD and UCSB is very different to CSUB and I think yes, well, there are three different schools and they've all got different strengths and weaknesses and they're in completely different places in California.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, what would you say to someone who's an international who says I don't want to go to a school in the middle of nowhere, I only want to go to a school in California or Florida because, as you can expect, we get a lot of swimmers who want warm climate universities to go to, and it's a good question and I can understand why you might be turned off.
Speaker 3:Obviously I went to wyoming. I didn't really know what I was getting myself into, um, but it's a lot more than, obviously, the climate. You kind of have to look at the things that are actually going to make you happy and actually going to change your quality of life, um. So obviously a big one's going to be the cost, um, you know, going to school in san diego. San diego is one of the most attractive places to live in the world. They've got great facilities, they've got great academics, um. But you know you want to afford to live in a house, though it's going to cost you about over three thousand dollars a month. So maybe that's a good thing for you, but most people, people in our student budget that's absolutely insane.
Speaker 3:Obviously, we're a little bit more in what people would call the middle of nowhere in California, but you can actually afford to come here. You're going to get a great education, we've got a great facility, you're going to have a great time. We generally make our kids swim faster. So it might not be as sexy as San Diego, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be that much different from day to day. Obviously.
Speaker 3:You've got loads of other places in the country, like wyoming, um, you know what people call the flyover states, which are kind of in the middle of nowhere. I think you get those college town vibes where everybody in the college, the town, supports the university. Um, you know, they've got some great atmospheres. There's great places, um there, great people. So you kind of have to open your horizons a little bit.
Speaker 3:And maybe it's not going to sound as cool on Instagram to say you're going to the University of Wyoming versus San Diego State, but you kind of have to look at the whole picture. Obviously, cost is a big one, whether you're actually going to be happy, whether you're going to be like a person on your team. A lot of people want to go somewhere to a slower school, because then I'll be the big dog, or you might want to go to a faster school so you've got more people to race, um, but you're going to have to look at all these different things because there's no, the perfect school for you might not be the perfect school for the other person. Um, but don't limit yourself to florida and california just because they sound better on instagram that's going to be.
Speaker 2:The thing that should be put on posters all over australia is do not choose a school just based on the name that sounds cool on instagram yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:No. I mean, there's so many places and we go on like, obviously I travel around the country a little bit, going to meets and all these other places, but there's places that you've never heard of, that have great facilities and that you know they're in cool little college towns in the mountains and things, but you know you'll never hear about them. In australia or new zealand, um, we go to utah tech, which has a really nice pool in the mountains, um, you know, in utah, which is a slightly different state due to religious reasons, um, but you know, you've got to sort of base these things on a little fit, and so these are the schools that are within a few hours of us, but there's hundreds and hundreds across the country that all have different strengths and weaknesses and they all have different educational strengths and weaknesses. Swimming strengths and weaknesses, costs, benefits, like there's a lot to look at and a lot to think about past the, the beach and the name of the school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree and I think for me in my role, what makes me a bit sad is when athletes are starting off very narrow-minded like that and saying I only want the warm climate because I know that there's so many wonderful universities out there that not everyone has heard of and that person could be missing their right fit because they're so fixated on California or Florida and that's it. And they're fit because they're so fixated on California or Florida and that's it, and they're just missing all of these amazing options. Because I also wanted to talk about the climate and how that affects the facilities of the indoor pools. So I've talked to some athletes about that and they've been quite surprised at how good the colder climate schools are, of the indoor facilities for swimming and with classes and keeping things quite connected. So could you talk a little bit about like how, as a swimmer, with being in a colder climate school um, which you're not coaching at right now, but just in general, like how that relates to swimming?
Speaker 3:yeah, so, being in wyoming, I think the coldest temperature I experienced with winter was close to negative 40 celsius, um, so you know it's pretty seriously cold. Um, one place, one point in the year it was like the sixth coldest place in the world. Um, so very, very cold. Not everywhere's going to be that cold and that wasn't every day. But if you don't like the cold, you were in for a bit of a shock.
Speaker 3:Um, but I mean, the university set up for it, so we obviously all lived in the dorms when we were freshmen. And then there's like an underground tunnel to get to the dining hall so you can easily go the whole weekend where you don't have to go to class, just going underground to the tunnel to get food and then hang out in the dorms with your friends. Um, then there's, like you know, all the other places. You know it's all set up for you to stamp your feet when you go in so you can get the snow off. It's never that far to walk across places.
Speaker 3:Um, you know, obviously, the sports facilities. They're all set up so that you can be warm and they're easy to get between places without spending that much time outside. Um, so it sounds terrible and you know there are moments where you're like, oh, this sucks, why am I here again? Um, but you know, generally it's it's cold, but you've probably been hot before, you've been cold before and you don't actually spend that much time outside. You go swimming, you go eat, you go to class, you go back to the dorms to hang out. So I don't know, I never really got there. Wow, this is terrible.
Speaker 2:I regret it I think that's a good thing for everyone to to hear is that you are not spending a ton of time outside if you don't want to in those winter months, and I remember the coaches like, oh, let's go for a run or we'll do dry land outside.
Speaker 3:Today, like, we have dry land facilities inside and we can do the dry land things inside, obviously the pools inside. And then, you know, in the spring and the summer it's been lighter out and then we do dry land outside and we can do it, go the running outside and all those things, but you just use what you've got. Like, you know, I've been in brisbane in the in the winter and I thought it was too hot for me because I was used to wyoming. Um, and then here, where I currently am, it's hot in the summer. So we try and spend more time inside so we wouldn't do dry land in the afternoon. We do dry land in the morning because it's a bit better with the temperature.
Speaker 2:So it's just, you know, everywhere manages their temperature and their climate differently, um, but I don't think you should really be choosing a place off the weather really if, unless you're absolutely heat averse or cold averse- can you talk a bit about dry land and what dry land looks like for you as a coach at cal state bakersfield and how often you're working out together as a team out of the pool?
Speaker 3:so, yeah, I think here we're quite fortunate. The other places I've worked I've been in indoor pools, but having an outdoor pool and being able to do dry land on the deck means we can have all 45 kids do dry land together, um, and we know we're never cramped the space, which is fantastic. So we do do quite a lot of dry land. You know some of it's simple, like you know skipping or jump rope, whatever you call it. We do a lot of stuff with mad balls, a lot of box jumps, um, a lot of sprints.
Speaker 3:Generally, we're looking for ways to be explosive on top of the water and try and work some of those swim specific muscles, um, so you know a lot of like core work, but also stabilizing with your arms or your legs.
Speaker 3:So we're looking at the balance in the water and that kind of thing, or just your explosive power with box jumps, throws, a lot of partner things. Sometimes we do things that are just fun, because you know it's nice to actually do something as a team where you can talk to each other. When swimming, you know a lot of time your head's underwater, so it's a bit different. But yeah, I think dry land is a massive part of being better at swimming and generally being athletes. A lot of our kids are really talented swimmers, but they're not very talented athletes, so things like jumping, running, changing direction, being agile, being dynamic are things they're very, um, they need to work on it's probably the nice way of saying it um, but yeah, that's something that we're a big focus. I think you know, if you're a 16, 17, 18 year old kid, I would focus on trying to be a better athlete as well as being a better swimmer that's really good advice.
Speaker 2:And we're partnered with a company here in australia called acceleration and it was founded by strength and conditioning coach from australia who was in the american collegiate system and he was saying something very similar to what you were saying on another one of our podcasts about how a lot of australian athletes are not equipped in that sense to go over and compete immediately at college. So that's a really good piece of advice for anybody listening. So if you were a 15 year old or 16 year old Australian athlete listening to this podcast or an international athlete listening to this podcast and this person is sitting there going, okay, I feel like I'm a good athlete. I feel like I'm ready to go swim at college. I feel like I'm set. What would you recommend me to do as someone who's getting ready to go over in August or January, to be the most prepared that you possibly can be to get straight into the swing of things for swimming?
Speaker 3:An easy one would be you can ask the coach what the practice schedule is and they'll probably just tell you. Then you I don't know if it's possible for you, but you might be able to mimic that at home and do something very similar. That would be a good one. Then you can just ask them what they do for dry land, what they do for swimming. If you know it's a team that runs a lot, I'd suggest you build up slowly so you don't hurt your knees and your ankles. You have to run when you get there. If they're a team that does massive yards every day, then you know practice doing massive yards every day, so you're ready to do that too.
Speaker 3:Um, but yeah, just ask them and they'll probably tell you like we normally tell our kids that we're going to run a bit at the start of the year. So you know, don't come in if you haven't run in the last six months, because you're probably going to have issues. But but you know, if you actually have a need then we can work around that. But other than that, just ask them. Also, start working on your terms and underwaters. You know, being able to hold your breath is going to make your life a lot easier because coaches will expect you just to be able to hold your breath a little bit off the wall, which is a work in progress for a lot of kids. But you things, the easier it is to get to the elite level faster.
Speaker 2:Awesome, great advice. And for the athletes who are getting ready to come over in August or January and they're thinking about ways that they should be mentally prepared, do you have mental tips for them about? Hey, this is your mindset that you should have going into being a brand new collegiate athlete.
Speaker 3:I think the biggest one is to be very open-minded and willing to go with the flow. I think the best, the biggest thing being a college athlete or working in college athletics is just being adaptable, because things change so quickly. You know we have issues with the pool. We have an outdoor pool, so you know there's a thunderstorm, so practice is cancelled. Um, it's not going to change because you don't like it, it's just going to be the way it is. So be ready to come up with another option.
Speaker 3:As an athlete, just be ready to go with the flow. You know practice is cancelled. We're doing dry land in the gym instead. Just be ready to go with it. Things are going to be different. You'll have to figure out how to do different things, do things in different ways and you know no one's trying to be out to get you or just to push you away. But if the team has been doing something for the last 10 years and it's worked, then maybe you're just going to need to slide into the system and maybe it's going to be a new thing for you. But you need to try it before you bash it down and say it's.
Speaker 2:I like that Really, really like that piece of advice. What would you say to this statement? Because this is a statement I heard from another coach and I agree with it. I'll be curious to hear your thoughts. One of the coaches that I was speaking to in another sport actually said today's generation has changed a bit because if something's not quite going their way at the first hurdle they will give up and not open up a conversation with their coach and then look to transfer. And he said a lot of millennial kids or Gen Z kids are not able to have the hard conversations with the coaches and say, hey, coach, I'm struggling, can I talk to you about this? And they just immediately want to enter the transfer portal. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Speaker 3:um, so I don't think it's something that we personally dealt with. A lot is people maybe willing to talk, but I do think that, you know, the younger age group is very slightly less resilient in those things and I think maybe it's partly like you'd rather order online than call over the phone. Is that it's a lot easier to do things on a screen because that's what you know we grew up with. A lot was doing things on a screen. Um, you know, I was maybe one of the oldest, the youngest people to not have technology so much growing up, like facebook and instagram and snapchat. Um, so the kids slightly younger than me and you know the ones 10, 15 years younger than me in high school now, like your whole lives have been on ipads and iphones and things.
Speaker 3:So it's a lot easier to excuse me text and email rather than actually speak to someone in person. But, um, you know, life is done in person a lot more, especially in college athletics. Like you actually have to deal with these people. So, being able to have those difficult conversations you know you're going to have a roommate, so being able to have a difficult conversation with them um, it's probably going to make your life a lot easier. So I generally agree with that. But yeah, I think the transfer portal has generally made things easier, like there are bad situations and you can end up in a place that's not a great fit. So it's not like transferring is necessarily a bad thing, but I don't think that would be your first choice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I like that summary. So, for parents listening, if they're listening to this and they have a swimmer daughter or son who's a swimmer and maybe someone's listening to this going, okay, I really like what he said. My daughter or son is a bit shy. How should I help them get prepared for the the world of college athletics? I think that's a really good thing for them to listen to what you just said about having the skills to be able to have those conversations, especially if you're more on the shyer or quieter side. Um, I guess it's just access.
Speaker 3:Um, I've never really thought about how to work on it, but you know, try and do things over the phone rather than doing it like online ordering, or you know, I mean I remember like not wanting to call the doctor's office to set an appointment or something like that, um, but like things like you actually have to talk to people or just practice having a difficult conversation or talk about something that you disagree on. It doesn't have to be about swimming, but you know people disagree about politics or the weather, or, um, you know how to clean a car or things. You know you can disagree on anything, but I actually try and talk to someone about something you disagree on, even if you don't agree. At the end of it at least you talked about. Maybe you learned about a different point of view.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. That was instilled in me a lot growing up from my parents and I feel like I have no issue talking to people. And I think I thought that that was when I was younger. I was like, oh, that's just normal that I can talk to anyone. And I realized as I got older I was like, oh, this is definitely not normal that you have the skills to be able to talk to anyone, and I just thought everyone was able to do that. And then I've noticed, talking to kids that are going through the recruitment process that we're working with, as well as kids that we're not working with. Some of them are so shy or so nervous to do this process that I worry about them a little bit for when they go to college, because it doesn't seem like they're ready to jump into that world.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think it is difficult because there is a certain amount of like outgoing yes you need, and so generally we would try and figure that out early on and I'll pair you up with a roommate who's maybe going to be um, easier for you to work with. Like, I wouldn't put the quietest incoming freshman with the loudest one. You want someone sort of in between so they can draw them out of their shell a little bit, but not someone who's just going to shout non-stop because that's their loud personality. Um, you know, we just put the loud ones together and they can do their own thing. Um, but yeah, I mean it is difficult if you're a little more introverted. But you know it's kind of life that if you want to be on a team, you actually do need to be a team person, and sometimes that does mean going out of your shell a little bit and working with other people. So it's not easy.
Speaker 2:But I think it's something that you just have to practice, for sure, yeah, I think the thing I wanted to end on today for this podcast was a lot of things I've noticed about the recruiting changing for athletes across the world looking to come swim. Whereas a couple of years ago their times would have been good enough for upper echelons of different divisions, upper echelons of different divisions, and then now if that was the case now and they're looking with the same times to go to schools everything's gotten more competitive and the expectations of results swimming times are faster than they ever have been before. I've noticed as someone working in this recruiting space. So can you talk a bit about what you've seen change with that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean the competition is crucial now. Um, our fastest kid on the team. He just swam 41.9, 103. 10 years ago that would have come six the ncaa's like in the whole country he would have been the sixth fastest freestyler. This year he's 38, so that's the 10 year span of how fast it is. He's the first person ever to swim a 41 and not get invited to NCAAs, which has been pretty brutal.
Speaker 3:So it just sort of highlights how much faster the competition's got at the elite level and all of that sort of trickles down that you know you want to make a B final at the Division III conference that you're in. It's probably a lot harder than it was 10 years ago and everything in between that is going to be a lot harder than it was 10 years ago. So I think part of this just that we have more international kids are coming up, um, you know it's a deeper call of talent, so it is harder, it is faster and you know there's bigger expectations that you're just gonna have to train, get better and succeed. And you know if you want to beat the team down the road then you're going to need to try and work harder and do something differently than that. But yeah, in terms of being recruited, it is hard.
Speaker 3:I think the best thing would be, like we sort of touched on earlier don't get yourself set on going to swim at the University of Florida. You know they've got a roster limit and it's going to be pretty rough to get there if you're not like a top 10, top 15, top 20 recruit in the whole world. Um, but like you know, there are division two schools, there's division three schools. There's mid-major division one schools that all have great education, great facilities, great coaching and a great team atmosphere. And I think something that someone said to me once about swimming division two and division three is you know, I sort of snobbed them and looked down on them while I was swimming and being recruited. But you look at 10 years down the road, if you can be a division two all-american, then you can put that certificate on your wall in your office and on your resume and no one's ever going to ask what was it division one or division two?
Speaker 3:you'll just put ncaa all-american. You'll sound fantastic, which is a big deal, and you know going and being a national champion is pretty exciting too, um, which most people aren't going to do at the division one level. I don't know if any of our listeners are good enough to be division one national champions, but a lot of you probably are good enough to be division two or division three all americans, which is something that's really exciting and doing that with your teammates, probably something that you remember forever for those listening who don't know what an all-american is, can you explain what that is?
Speaker 3:yes, so being a division one or the swimming all-american um means that you're top eight in the country in your division. So to be the division one swimming all-american, that's top eight. It's a close enough to be top eight in the world. There was like a whole lot of discrepancy. The guys who make top eight, they're probably going to be featured at the olympics or, you know, finals at us olympic trials um. To be top 16, that's an honorable mention, all american. So it's still a big deal, it's still really exciting.
Speaker 3:You've got a final swim and you know whoever you're honorable mention all american um. And that's the same thing for division two. You're all american, the top eight, top 16, and then the same with d3 um, which again you know. There's something you're probably going to remember with your team forever, which is really cool awesome.
Speaker 2:Thank you for explaining that for all of our listeners, and I also think to couple with the fact that you can be really proud that you're an all-american. I think the name of the university or the division that you're in is not as important as the experience that you have and I think that's what we try and talk a lot about in this podcast is it's all about finding your right fit, no matter what division, that is, no matter what name of the school. That is all about finding your right fit and where you'll be happiest I think the whole fit thing.
Speaker 3:And you know there's different leagues of swimming and you know most of the kids we're recruiting they're never going to make NCAAs, they're never going to make the Olympics, they're never going to be. You know even US Olympic trials, a lot of them. So obviously some of our international kids they're, you know, slightly less competitive countries. Um, it is easier. So one of our kids is trying to go to Worlds this year, um, but you know these kids are going to come here. They're going going to swim fast. They want to beat the team down the road more than anything and they want to, you know, swim fast in our conference and hopefully perform as well as they can. So you don't really need to compare yourself to the top guys in the world to be happy with what you're doing and be happy with what your team's performance is.
Speaker 3:You know, kind of the same as anything else, it's all about beating the guys closest around you. So that's kind of our goal is to beat the teams close to us in California, rather than comparing ourselves to the, you know, leon Marchand's and Kane Dressel's of the world.
Speaker 2:I actually want to finish with one more question, if that's okay. My last question would be as someone who worked in collegiate, who is working in collegiate athletics right now as a swim coach, as well as your experience being a swimmer yourself in college. What is one thing you would say to a listener, a parent, career counselor, head of sport, athletic director at a school, anyone listening to this podcast that is on the fence about potentially going to the us for swimming, or recommending someone that they know to go to the us for swimming what is one thing that you would say? This is why you should go um.
Speaker 3:I think the biggest thing is that you'll probably remember forever like I've been to several weddings. I've gone to several more weddings this summer for people I used to live with or swim with, um, you know, generally just be at school with um. I don't know anyone else who sort of has those experiences, who doesn't have like a team to fall back on. That you know, and you remember these friends for the rest of your life. You remember that experience for the rest of your life. You might not remember the times you swam, but you'll remember going to the meet and having fun with your friends, you know, and all the dumb crap you do at college you know because you did it with your team and that makes it better and more exciting. So if you do get the opportunity, I would definitely take it. The worst case scenario is that you don't like it and you can go home, but I probably know one person out of hundreds who decided they didn't like it. So it is worth it. It is hard but you know you'll have fun and you'll enjoy it.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much for your words of wisdom, coach george. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule. I know that there's a lot happening in the world of a college coach. We very much appreciate it, and all of our swimmers out there listening parents, career counselors, heads of sport, people in other countries I really hope that you've learned some good insight today from Coach George and learned about swimming and how it all works at college, and we'd also love to hear from you. If you'd like to hear more specific episodes or if you'd like to hear different content, please send us a message on instagram and we will gather up some more guests for you to listen to for in the huddle. And yeah, thanks again, coach george, for your time today no problem.
Speaker 3:Thank you guys for listening.