In The Huddle
The world of US college sport is both expansive and exciting, and international student-athletes are signing up in their droves for their shot at a scholarship opportunity.
In The Huddle is the creation of Study & Play USA, widely regarded as the GO TO experts in facilitating the best possible outcomes for all stakeholders in this industry: US college coaches and recruiters, local high schools, families of student-athletes and most importantly the student-athletes themselves.
So as you jog on the treadmill, drive to work, school or training, tune in to hear from industry leading experts, US college coaches, parents and student-athletes and learn how to best approach this pathway to maximise your opportunity and set yourself up for your most successful life.
In The Huddle
Ep #64: Hunter Valley rower Sarah Abrams - how she turned a Facebook message into an NCAA D1 Collegiate Rowing Career at Tennessee
What happens when a single Facebook message completely changes your life? For Sarah Abrams, a talented young rower from Australia's Hunter Valley, that message—which she initially suspected was a scam—became the first step on an extraordinary journey across the Pacific to NCAA Division I rowing.
Alexia sits down with Sarah as she shares the raw, unfiltered story of her transformation from a high school athlete who "didn't even know what a conference was" to an accomplished collegiate rower at the University of Tennessee. With disarming honesty and infectious enthusiasm, she recounts the whirlwind decision to accept a January intake offer that had her boarding a plane in late December, fighting back tears as she left everything familiar behind. Those early months tested her resilience as she navigated intense training camps, academic pressures, and profound homesickness—yet the community she found among teammates and coaches became her lifeline.
Sarah debunks the myth that pursuing American collegiate athletics means sacrificing opportunities to represent your home country, sharing how she successfully made the Australian national team while competing for Tennessee. The emotion in Sarah's voice is palpable as she describes putting on the green and gold: "There's a kangaroo on my back!"
Alexia and Sarah also cover an aspect of Sarah's journey often overlooked in the media despite its significant impact: the transition back to your home country after US college graduation. After four years of independence, intense training, and immersion in American culture, Sarah speaks about returning to her childhood bedroom and adjusting to life without her established college support network. She dives into the importance of self-compassion during this transition, allowing oneself to feel the full range of emotions that come with such a significant life change.
Whether you're a listener considering a US rowing scholarship, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about different US college sporting pathways, Sarah's journey offers valuable wisdom about embracing opportunities, trusting the process, and discovering capabilities you never knew you possessed. Listen now to understand why this self-proclaimed "hype woman" believes this experience—challenges and all—was unequivocally "the best thing I've ever done."
Loving this podcast? Leave us a review and send us any guests & topics you want us to cover via email at hello@studyandplayusa.com.au
In the Huddle was created to give student athletes, parents, and coaches an inside look at the journey through US college sport and all that comes with it. The demands, the experiences, the excitement, and the opportunities available to our student athletes from around the world. Study and Play USA facilitates a comprehensive, customised approach for student athletes and families for their whole journey from their high school preparation news right through to US college graduation.
SPEAKER_01:Hi everyone and welcome to another edition of In the Huddle. My name's Alexia, and today we are thrilled to welcome Sarah Abrams. So Sarah is an NCAA Division I rower who has just graduated from the University of Tennessee. Originally from the Hunter Valley in Australia, Sarah took the leap across the Pacific to chase her rowing dreams and compete at the very top of the U.S. college system. During her time in Tennessee Orange, Sarah represented the volunteers with distinction, balancing the intense demands of elite rowing with the challenges of college life. Her journey is packed with highs, challenges, and lessons learned about resilience, opportunity, and chasing big dreams. So from Aussie Waters to the NTAA stage, Sarah's story is all about pushing limits, and we can't wait for you to hear it. So without further ado, welcome Sarah to In the Hall. Thank you so much. Happy to be here. It's so lovely to see you. And I think I often sound, and I try not to sometimes, but I think I often sound like a proud mum when I'm having these catch-ups with our student athletes who have graduated because I just feel like you've been a part of the study and play family for such a long time. Do you remember?
SPEAKER_02:Do you remember how old you were when we um I want to say like 16 or 15, I want to say that would be my guess if I was to. I think we started chatting when I was end of year nine almost, maybe. Yeah. I knew it was, you know, early into high school. Yeah, definitely. I think I'm trying to like wrap my brain, but yeah, I think year nine was your end of year nine at start of year 10 was when, yeah, 15, 16. Yeah, amazing.
SPEAKER_01:So that's that's where the proud mum comes out as a year through high school, and yeah, to see you now graduated, you know, it just it's crazy.
SPEAKER_02:Like I even think that that's when it started. I'm like, holy moly, that was so long ago. Like it was four years, and then I was chatting to you guys for another, this has been seven years, it's a long time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So it's equal part me feeling proud and equal part me feeling old that you know more to more proud, but yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's what I'm gonna focus on today is proud. We're gonna keep it positive. Um, so you know, share with the listeners how a girl from the Hunter Valley ended up well, rowing in Dallas firstly, and then going to to Tennessee. So tell us, you know, how did you learn about the pathway and what was it that drew you to it?
SPEAKER_02:Um, so I always was doing sport in school. Like I was always doing something, I was doing swimming, netball, rowing all the time. Like they were my three sports. Um, and then I ended up really committing to rowing. I ended up falling in love with the sport, everything that it is. Um, it's just a whole different experience. Like I now work in sports with my job, and even like from the outside in, I might be a little bit biased, but rowing is such an unmatched sport. Um anyway, uh, I got into rowing more like for the social side, and then it developed into that really competitive drive to be kind of up there doing things. And I honestly didn't even know America was a thing. Like I genuinely just joined the sport because it was something that I loved. It was fully just passion. Um, and the first time I found out about this is really funny, actually. Everyone asked me to go, this is not real. Um, yeah, it is. Um, the first time I ever found out about the US passway was from a messenger text message from a random coach in America. And I literally said to mom, I was like, I think I'm being scammed, like this is not real. Like, who messages someone like on messenger of all things too? Like, I was like, this is so rogue. Um and then I got a couple more because it was after our nationals, like Australian nationals in March. So I got a couple of messages and I was like, I don't know if this is real. And I chatted to mom, and then mom did her chit-chat as moms do, and then um I kind of was like, Okay, this is really cool. Um, living in another country, doing a sport that I am obsessed with. Um, that would be amazing. So that was, I guess my original passion for it kind of got my foot in the door just because I loved it so much, and then actually being like reached out to, I guess, was really really flattering, to be honest. Like this is amazing. Like, I'm able to like do something I love to get through uni. This is great. Um, and so then mom and I kind of replied to the coaches, not really sure what to do. And then mom, I actually can't remember how mum found you guys, but mom found you guys, and then we had our first chat um with Chris, actually. I think it was and I yeah, it was Chris, if I remember correctly, in the back of the end. But yeah, it was and like Chris wasn't even selling it. Like, I kind of was already like this is for me. Like I was like, this is so exciting. Um, I was obviously tentative, like it's terrifying moving across the country, like across country, across the world. Sorry, yes, rephrase that one. Um, but yeah, like I was it was obviously daunting, but um very exciting. I love putting myself in new situations, and I think the idea of doing my sport in another country was and I obviously I didn't even know this pathway was an option. So the fact that it was something that I kind of developed for myself too was really exciting. Like I worked for that. So um, yeah, I guess that's how I kind of got into it. Like I lit a literal Facebook messenger chat about being scammed, and that's how I got into it. And then when I chatted with you guys, I was kind of sold. Like it was just this is what I'm gonna do, and that's how I'm moving forward. It might have been reflected in my HSC results, but that's all right. We went to America and we did it.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, but it was just love that one message completely shifted 100% the next steps in your life.
SPEAKER_02:Like literally one text message from I think it was Louisville, if I'm correct, but yeah, like literally one text message. I literally thought it's like Facebook Marketplace, and someone goes, Is this available? I'm like, like literally I was like, um, and then yeah, chatting with mum, and then found you guys, and then it was on the plane. It was crazy, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I I and I think that I just love when things happen organically, yeah. Um, and not everyone has that, right? But not at all. The fact that it did, and that you just had a love and a passion for a sport that got you to a level that got you that interest for you to go, oh, okay, thanks, guys. I can do this.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like I mean, yeah, that flattering part of like we want you was really awesome. I think because the hunter is so disconnected from any city. We're like two hours away from Sydney, and that's kind of unfortunately where all the rowing is. You're not really gonna find a big rowing central hub. I wish it wasn't like that, but like I was doing 3 a.m. wake-ups with mum going to Sydney doing my 5 a.m. training and then driving back to school and getting to school at 10. Like, mum gets like mother of the year every year award. Like she got me to those trainings in Sydney during the week, and then she did her full day at work. Like she's a super mum. Um, so grateful for my mum. But um, like I just there's nothing really in the hunter to support that other than like my school. I'm really grateful that I went to Hunter Valley Grammar School. Like, I they literally I found my passion for rowing there. I can't like that was what they gave to me, other than obviously educational, like rowing specifically in this context. Um so I think being from the hunter, also having someone message you from like to just kind of recognize all the hard yards and the travels to Sydney and like the connections that you've made through your sport from such a small town was um well, Halantra isn't very small, but in comparison to Sydney, like it's very flattering. And I think that uplifted and empowered me to be like, okay, I could actually really do this and look into this, um, was very cool. So I yeah. And then obviously moving forward into the pathway, it kind of just was sold for me after that. But that I think that initial just drive for myself with the sport and the passion that I loved it, and then to have that was amazing. Like just yeah, that was yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And you you you touched on just there about you know, um, having someone reach out to you and being like, wow, okay, yeah, cool. Someone's reaching out and contacting me. And that's something that you know, maybe it's culturally, as um, that we some of our student athletes can not like to feel sold by American coaches that you're being sold something, or um, you know, they recruit, they're recruiters first and foremost. You know, if they want you, they're going to try and do whatever they can to make you choose them, right? But do you know what I say to our student athletes? Enjoy it. What else in your life are you are you going to experience this when you have people offering you different things and and and trying to entice you in different locations and different directions? Um, and not everyone experiences that either. Um, so if you can and you get it, soak it up, enjoy it. You know, uh, don't fight it, go with it.
SPEAKER_02:Definitely. And I think I remember this one conversation I actually had with Chris. Um, I was talking to three schools that I really liked, ended up going with SMU, obviously, but I was kind of torn, I didn't know what to do. And then SMU um offered me less of a scholarship. And I think when they did that, um, I was like, damn, like I would have peaked SMU if it was financially applicable. Because obviously, going to this school in the States is very financially taxing if you don't have a ride. Um, and obviously there's other strings attached to that too, like flights back and forth, what your school does to refund that. Like it's not like a you sign the ticket and it's full scholarship, everything's covered. Like there's you want to go. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's lots of different things that uh go into it. But scholarship-wise, the base of why you're there. I remember when SMU offered me um less than full, and I said to mom, I was like, she was like, I like it's just not a thing, you know. And I was like, that's completely fine. But I was like, damn, like that was kind of when I went, that was the school I wanted to go to. And I remember talking to Chris, my whole point of the story that I rambled on. Um, but he said, like, you're there to they want you, you know, like they are talking to you and investing their time in you because they want you. And so if they're not offering you what you want, you need to tell them what they need to offer. And if they don't step up to the plate, then it obviously wasn't your school. And I was like, right, you're so correct. Like, I was like, you're so right. So, like you saying, like, nourish that experience and like get into it. Like, I completely agree. Like, and I mentioned that to SMU. I said, You guys are my top choice. Like, I want to go to this school and I want to row for you guys, but I just can't. Like, I I physically like I can't get over there if this is the situation we're gonna go into. And then they ended up offering me a full scholarship. Like, obviously, that's best case scenario, but yeah, if I didn't have that conversation with Chris, I probably would have just denied it and like missed out on that whole experience and my entire collegiate athletics experience. Um, so when you say that, a hundred I couldn't agree more. Like, I think being able to recognize that you are special, like you are a student, you are someone from Australia offering yourself as an athlete to work for four years as hard as you can, depending on what you want to have your experience, of course, but like working your ass off for lack of a better word. Um, like you deserve to be at the school that you want to be at. Like, yeah, so selling yourself is so important in like this. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And I think there's such a again, a cultural thing of of the humble Aussie, right? And 100%, but you know, you want to get your best option, so you've got to put your best foot forward. Ultimately, you went over there and then backed that up and performed. Yeah. Um, so that's also part of it is making sure that you're going somewhere where you're going to compete, um, you know, and feeling comfortable and confident in that as well. Um, yeah, you're right, is that there is no harm in asking a coach. You know, if they come, they're coming back with what they believe is their boss best offer at that time.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:And then just by saying, you know, yeah, coach, that just unfortunately you're my first pick, which clearly yes, because of that feeling that you got when they were might have been taken out of the picture. Yeah, you're my first pick, but just financially my family can't get that situation. And yeah, we get other athletes who say, listen, that's okay for for first year, but like, what do you need to see from me and my second year for that to decrease? Like, that's another version of it as well. If it's not something that you can commit to for the next four years, but you can year one, for example.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, working together to find that happy medium, I think is important. And I like the and this is something my dad says like the worst I can say is no, you know, you may as well just ask. And I think when Chris said that to me, I think like you guys obviously know what you're doing. And so when he said that to me, I was like, no, you're so right. Like, I all they're gonna say is no, and then that's that, like you know. So I'm really grateful I had that chat with Chris. Like, awesome. Okay, yeah, great, amazing. Because like we obviously within your um business, like there's those interview prep and stuff, which is awesome because honestly, I thought I was being scammed by a Facebook message. Like, I honestly have no idea what to say in a chat, you know what I mean? So, like having those check-ins and those interviews I found so incredibly helpful throughout like so good. Like, honestly, not even to try and sell you guys, I couldn't tell you like I'm not even kidding. Like, I have my um coach MJ, she gives me Aussies to talk to. So, like um, she's the recruiter at Tennessee now. Yeah, um, and so she will be like, Oh, can you reach out to such and such? Here's her Instagram or whatever it is, um, or can you communicate, or if you know anyone, like kind of shoot them our way, like we'd love to chat, like whatever. Um, and so I always recommend like going with you guys or an agency what that fits their best, like whatever their needs are. Like, but I always say like I went with study player and they were great. Like, I'm not even just saying to make you sound great. Like, I literally did that the other day, like, and I think like without you guys, I wouldn't have been where I was at all. Like, I wouldn't have had that conversation with MJ from Chris, like all those kinds of things. Um, but yeah, like I I don't even know what the question was, but that's my thank you.
SPEAKER_01:No, well, I yeah, it's actually really nice. I thank you, firstly. And I like we chatted before about what I said the purpose of the podcast is, and the purpose is really it's not for us, it's to educate others and for people who are thinking about this to maybe hear something in it that they might not have thought of one way or the other, you know. But um it is nice to hear that because um sugar coding. No, no, no, I love it. I think yeah, and and we just do what we do, right? And and so some sometimes you get feedback on it and sometimes you don't. So it's just nice to get that. So I appreciate it. But that's a prime example of what we talk about in our team of um you know, people can do this on their own, they do. I would be lying to say that you couldn't do this on your own. No, absolutely because people do, yeah. Um, but the thing is you don't know what you don't know, yeah. And that's a prime example of you didn't know that you could actually go back to coach and ask that. Yeah, you thought you were done. Yeah. Um, yeah. And you know, again, I'm blatantly saying it because it's us, but like if you if you hadn't have had that conversation, then SME might not have been on the table. And I feel like for a lot of our families that we work with, there are multiple different moments like that. That it's not if something happens, it's when. Yeah, there's always going to be a hiccup. There's always going to be something that you didn't know that you could do that we advise you to do, yeah, or we do, yeah that opens up something else somewhere, whatever it might be. But it is, it's that you don't know what you don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Like I genuinely, like I wouldn't have known anything, let's be honest. Like, I I didn't even know what a conference was when I got to to the States. Like, I genuinely was like, we're in a conference. I had no idea how the collegiate system works. And that's just your lingo now. It is like I'm like the SEC, the ACC, like Big Ten, it's like I'm I know what everything is now, but like previously, like I'm not gonna brush to someone right now. Like it's just there's so much out there that you just don't, it's just such a deep dive once you get in there, and it's amazing to just immerse yourself in it. But yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_01:You don't know what you don't know, so yeah, that and so let's let's let's go back to when you started um college. So you started in the January. So for for the listeners um who are hearing, you know, Big Ten and the conference and not nine, yeah, you know, I'm gonna you know remind myself of that. Is for the listeners who who don't know, there's two there's two main intakes into college in the US. So there's the you know, probably you know, 85 to 90 percent of our of the study and play USA cohort every year will start in the August, September. So what they call a fall intake. And that's the beginning of the American academic year. Um then there's a what they call a mid-year intake, so spring in January. Um, and yeah, 10 to 15 percent of our cohort go in the spring every year. Um now there's pros and cons. Um, I can talk of some of the cons generally, is that you have to hustle, right? You're graduating from high school in November, you know, you have to get done in six to eight weeks. What other recruits can have three, four months to do, which is finalizing admissions, NCAA eligibility, visa appointments, you've got Christmas, you're trying to get everything ready, you're maybe trying to have schoolies with your friends. Like there's all these things that you're trying to jam into a really small period of time. So for for what we see, that's that's um a con. However, every single one of our student athletes who have wanted to go in January have gone. Have I got gray hairs because of it? Absolutely. Is it worth it? Yes. Um it happens, right? Um, so that's you know, that can be something is timeline. The pros can be that you can get an offer in January that can't be replicated in the August, you know, that the coach has, you know, roster availability or scholarship availability in the January. And then we can have other athletes that proactively choose January because they don't want to have a break. There they finish, I don't want to sit around here for nine months while my friends are all off starting uni and doing different things. This is what I'm doing. I want to get stuck in. Then you can have other students who say, you know what, I I need that break. I need to really, I want to focus on my fitness, I want to get a part-time job, you know, just help contribute all those things. So that's from our perspective of the pros and cons that we talk to our families about. For you, what were your thoughts on going? You went in January. So, what are your thoughts on going in January?
SPEAKER_02:I loved going in January, but I think it was a really actually, if I remember correctly, I made the decision to go in. I was going in August. Like I had signed my thing to say I'm going to SMU. Like I'd fully committed to them. I'd stopped talking to other schools, like that was it. And then MJ, our assistant coach at SMU at the time, um, she texted me, she was like, Thoughts on January? Like, we have more scholarship available. And I literally, I think I was up at like Lennox Head or something, like literally on a family holiday with another family sitting at the beach, and I was like, sat up. I was like, January, not August. Like this is in three weeks or a month or so. Like it was not, I think I made, I think I made that decision though to go in January that night. Like I think I signed up for six hours and then decided to go. Um I loved going in January. It was a hustle for sure. Hustle is the best word, um, especially for rowing. Like January, if rowers know this, like that is camp. Like that is peak time. You're also going over in winter of America. Didn't think that one through.
SPEAKER_01:Um, very hot summer. Very hot of winter.
SPEAKER_02:Very hot of winter, yes. Um, that was huge. That was a huge transition in itself. But anyway, um, like you're going into peak winter, um, which is peak camp. So you are literally from camp of the first of Jan to probably like the 20th-ish. Like you were just smashing out unlimited hours for weeks. And I think that transition was really brutal. And I kind of was like, holy moly, what am I doing here? I'm like on the phone of mom, like crying. I'm like, take me home. This is so much. Like, I'm 17, I've just left my home in a six-hour decision. I'm like, what am I doing with my life? What's a conference? Um, so I think I was literally like, what is going on? Um, but because of the people that I was there with, like I my team got me through that. And MJ and Kim, I love, I'm sure we'll dive into why I picked SMU, but I loved my coaches with my whole heart. I still do. Um, and so I think that community family aspect of it all, um, which I'm sure we'll dive into, um, really got me through that part because leaving home at 17 is not easy or 18 or whatever year you're leaving, it is so hard. Yeah. I think I didn't stop being homesick until seven-month mark. Like I was still homesick, but it's just something it's just such a big adjustment. Like, you don't even you don't realize like the stuff you need, like a sponge for the kitchen. Like you just don't, there's so many changes that you don't even think. Like, I was like, I need all like when I moved into my first apartment in Dallas, like I literally was like, I need a pan to cook my food. Like, I have nothing, like I literally have nothing. Like, you just there's so like that's just such a shallow thing to think about. But like but you've never lived away from home. It was never something that ever has crossed your mind. And I think like all those big life changes are happening without your central support network you have at home. And so, like, that was really tough about January, like just having that really quick from school to overseas to doing that, like that was crazy. And then the visa process, oh my god, that was insane! Like with three weeks, it was crazy emergency. I remember that. Yeah, me too. I don't forget it. Um, yeah, so that I literally had to move my flights because I my visa took so long, like it was a crazy process. But when with all within all of this, I um wouldn't change it. Like, I'm so glad I went in January. Um, because my best friend who I met at uni, she started in January too. She was a Kiwi, which I think also made it really helpful. Another international starting in January, we dorm roommates, like we literally understood everything without having to say a word. And I think we're so lucky in that respect. Like, she's gonna be like best friend till the end. Like, she I love her to pieces. So I think getting through that together was definitely very helpful. And um, Jay mentioned to me that another girl was thinking about going, so I think that was another decision maker for me. Um, but another pro is that I got straight into it. Like I didn't have to sit around, like you said, for those couple of months working. Like realistically, I was not going to be any fitter than I was like collegiate athletics hits you like a truck. Like you, especially when you're going to D1 top 20-ish ranked schools, like it's it's unlike anything you've done before. It's hard, but it's so worth it and rewarding. And when you're with your team day in, day out, in the hustle, in the grind, like you just I love it. Like, that's just I loved rowing for that. Like, rowing is such a pedal to the metal grind sport, and I loved being in the crap with everyone. Like, I just loved getting around it, like literally one hype woman at the end of the year of senior year because every crappy workout when everyone's like over it, like no one wants to speak to anyone. It's like end of unlimited hours in camp. Everyone's like crying, like just I want to go home, like I'm done with this, like however long we've been training. And I'm just like there, like clapping everyone on. I'm like, let's do it, guys, let's just get into it. Like, it's so fun, like let's just do it. And I internally, I'm like, oh my god, this like sucks, but it's great. But like it hits you like a truck. But like it's that really shaped me into who I am today. Like just pushing yourself so the whole moral of that is that like just pushing yourself beyond any limit you thought you had. Like, I found new comfort zones that I didn't even know were possible with training. Um, and also just a human being, like juggling school and collegiate athletics is huge. And like I think having that going straight from school to where you've got your HSC, like you're already kind of in that study mode anyway. So that easy transition over to just continuing that as well was kind of nice. Um, but yeah, I ended up choosing that because I wanted to go straight away. Like I just wanted to get out of there. I wanted to start it. I didn't want to be having this looming thing. I didn't want to build up in my head like it was just a split decision. I was like, we're going, like we're just gonna do it. And then when I had Shill, Sophie Hill, my roommate, best friend, um, she um like when I was told that I was like, Yep, great, we're sold and going. And I was like, well, that's that. I guess I'm shipping out in the 2031st of December. That's it. Like, when did you go? What date was it? The 31st of December. That's right, that's right. Yeah, because my phone was the 27th and I had to move it. And then my visa actually came on the 26th, so I had an extra couple of days anyway, but yeah, crazy.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and did mum or dad go with you, or did you go by yourself?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, everyone went with me to the report. Yeah, that was crazy. I couldn't turn around. Like I had the Sydney departure gates, and I was just like, I can't look, like I can't turn around and leave. Like it was so high. I woke up the day of actually crying. I was like, Mom, don't let me go. Like she was like, get on the plane, you've got to go, you've got to do this. I was like, okay, yeah. Um, but yeah, there's just so many moments when you look back where you just go, wow, that really changed my life in the best possible way. Like just jumping headfirst in the deep end and just pushing yourself athletically, like education-wise, and then also just in your life, like social skills, it's a brand new social scene, new culture, like everything's different. And so doing that on your own and navigating that is like I am so grateful I went because I learned so much about myself and just the way that I can move forward with my life and what I know I am capable of, and all that kind of stuff. So that's my very long-winded version.
SPEAKER_01:No, I honestly I could listen to you forever. So this I think listeners buckle up. This could be a long one. No, it's good, it's good. Um, you know, and and Chris, you know, my husband is testament to this fact is that America changed him, you know, in a positive way, changed him from conf, you know, to make him confident, um, you know, being surrounded by people who expect to succeed and they expect you to succeed. Um, is that something that you know you felt as well in that environment? Because I just hear it a lot. And obviously I was not a student athlete myself, but um, you know, I hear it so much from our student athletes. I see it, you know, I see it in you, having you know known you since you were in high school to now. Um, but do you identify with that? 100%.
SPEAKER_02:I think like being a you, it's so hard to explain. Like being a student athlete, I think sport, I'm just gonna even start again. Sport in the States is just such a different concept. I think Australia has so much potential to be what America is. Like that, like I just can't even explain it. It makes like whenever someone asks me, should I go? I'm like, yes. Like I literally, like the first thing I say is yes, like D3, D2, D1, D4, make it math, like go. Yeah, just get over. I can't like just get over there, it's the best thing. That's awesome. 100% like just get over there, like go do it. But I really identify with that because when you're a student athlete over there, like I think the Aussie idea of being humble is kind of torn down a little bit. Like in the States, you're a student athlete at a college, like you are representing that college. Like kids are born in families wearing their families like uni, like it's like they are wearing Tennessee, they are wearing Yale, they're wearing whatever school, like they are literally born in that. Like onesie, like that is how they come out of the womb. Like, so like when you go to these schools, like they that is the collegiate athletics culture is so enriched in that. And so you turn up to college day one and just go, holy crap, people will die for this school. Like, they just like I have they've worked their whole life to get here. And I think that's such a different in culture that we have here. Like, I could not tell you what uni I got into, like, after HP. Like, I genuinely could not tell you, but I could tell you about all these different unis in the states because it's just a culture they have. Like, it's like you represent that school, and I think that idea of representing the school makes you want to drive for success more because the coaches want to do well, like they want, they bring you over for a reason, you know. Like I think there's that extra, not so much pressure, but expectation on international athletes. Like they are paying you a lot of money to get over there and do your and so I think that was something that I kind of took in like to high esteem. Like I was confident in myself because my coaches were backing me. And so having that backing of that, and then also like those messages I got from the get-go, um, getting into the whole collegiate program, like pathway, I guess I should say, but like I think that really resonates with me with what you said because you're being backed so much that you can't not be confident in yourself, and so I think that's something I learned. Like, I back myself so much more now than I did before. Like, and I I honestly like there's a difference between being humble and cocky, right? Like, there is like there's also being like, Yeah, I can do this, like I'm pretty cool. And like I think it's such a unique experience. Like, so many like people that I've talked to that I've met now post-coming home are like, that's insane. Like, you lived in another country for four years. I'm like, yeah, like that is crazy to think about. I literally am like, why am I not there right now? Like, I was like getting my college days, but it's like a hundred percent. Like when Chris is like it changed me, and I just feel like there was such another level of success. I just think that is so true. Like, I think it's just rooted in their culture, like, not even just stuff. I think like coaches want to do well, they want to prove that they can make this school the best. Like, and I think Kim was a huge contributor of the head coach at Tennessee, Kim Capini. Um, she is like, sorry to all my Aussie coaches, but she's like the best coach I've ever had. I love her to pieces. Um, she um made me who I am today, and she has such a high standard of rowing. Like, she is like, not to sound biased, but like if you want to be good, she will get every inch out of you. And I think that when you say Chris, that like um success story vibe, like however you want to put that, like she enriched that in her athletes. Like she got everything out of you, and you can see that from like SMU to Tennessee. Like when we moved to Tennessee, I transferred to Tennessee everyone. Um, when I moved to Tennessee in my junior year, um Tennessee was 25th, and we ended third in one season. Kim is like a superstar, like she's incredible, and I think um that's just such a testament to her and her abilities. And I will always encourage people to go to Tennessee because I had such a positive experience. Um, but yeah, like I think that pressure and level of success that Kim wants is pushed into the team, and I think that comes from the idea that American sport is so heavily followed and watched and supported. Like, honestly, collegiate athletics is low-key bigger than NFL and all of the professional leagues in America. Like it is when I was leaving, I really saw that shift. Like a lot of people were talking more about collegiate sports than they were like the NFL, ML, whatever, like not even gonna mess up the acronyms, but yeah, like I think yeah, that is huge. I think it just is rooted in their culture, like it's just really is it's just a cultural shift, and I think that's really empowering for athletes going over there. Like, because I was like, hey guys, like I'm from Australia, like whatever. And they're like, that's sick, like you're an Australian in the States. I'm like, like, that is really sick, like what?
SPEAKER_01:So I think like that, even that just concept, so yeah, and I think that the only thing we have to compare it to here, and it's a it's it's probably a stretch, but like um, where like my my our son goes to a you know a big boys' school here in Brisbane, they're a big sporting school, and you know, when they have you know their first 15 playing rugby, yeah, they're rugby, yeah, you know, it is like yeah, you know, you can get 15,000 like old boys to to it and that alumni and bringing all of that in and the school and all of that, like uh college is that, but on steroids, yeah, like it is just every sport. That's right, and it's and I think I laugh. I remember so when I first met Chris, he'd got back from us, he'd been in college, we met back here in in Brisbane, you know, six months after he got back from college. And here I am meeting this guy, telling me all this stuff that he's experienced, just like you are, with that same level passion, love, you know, fire in the belly. And I'd never heard of it. And yeah, it was like yeah, seriously. And I honestly thought like he was, you know, telling a few first things. Um but then you know, fast forward a couple of years, and we're got heading back over to Oklahoma State University to Stillwater to see all of his friends, and and for me to see that, which was you know, I've been there a number of times since, but like that first time I remember. So I'd keep in your mind that I had not I did not believe him, I did not believe that this level existed over here, some element of doubt. And so I'd never been to a a college sport game at all. Yeah, I the first game I go to is wrestling. Wrestling. Wow, okay, yep. That's not like you need to say at all about this. Yeah. 30,000 people watching wrestling, and here is little Alexia Bates from Brisbane in her little pink hoodie when everyone else is in orange and black, and I stand out in this place, yeah, and it nearly it shatters some lights because of the sound barrier was broken from people screaming, they ended up winning. There's people hugging, crying, kissing each other. Yeah, it's and Chris still tells people this, and it's actually true. I cried because I had never experienced anything to that level to date at to that point in my life, like from a sporting environment.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so it's like, and this is coming from someone who wasn't a student athlete, like it's just phenomenal, it's insane, and to be that athlete like is even crazier. Like rowing is definitely not the biggest sport in Australia by any means, but like I remember our first media day, and I was like, holy crap, like I'm like being celebrated for rowing, like this is crazy, and I think rowers are sometimes overlooked in Australian sport, sometimes like and I think just because like it's not really a spectator sport, right? Like it's a two-point race, it's and we love you guys at the Olympics, yeah. Like you know, we all get on board at that. Like the world championships on right now, and I'm sure not a lot of people know that. Like, and so it's um like because the athletics is on, you know, which I understand, like it's just not really a spectator sport, and so to have like sports like wrestling, like I was like, I wouldn't expect you to say that as we're gonna say football or something, like it's the same thing, right? But it's like all those sports that are kind of more niche, yeah, still celebrated in the same way, same level, absolutely, and I think that's something that's completely different about Australia. Like when you said rugby about big schools, like I knew you were gonna say rugby because it's just like it's that mainstream sport, right? I get it, rugby's great to watch. Like, I love a rugby game. I'm not I'm not hating, I'm just saying like that's culture, right? It's like America does American football, UK does soccer, like we all have our sports, but to have the collegiate system celebrate athletes in that way and have 30,000 people at a wrestling match, have 20,000 at a women's volleyball game, like it's unbelievable. And I just I think it's just such a missed potential here in Australia through universities. It's just a way to have athletes perform for your university and get into it. Like I am a Sydney rowing club girl. I think a lot of rollers will understand what I mean when I say that, but like when we burst Sydney Uni, it's like it's on, like that is they're they're our rival, you know what I mean? And so, and like all I have a lot of really like one of my best friends, um, Zara Collison, she rose for Sydney Uni. Um, but like I love her to pieces, but if we're racing each other, I'm I don't want to talk to you. We're not friends, right? We're not friends, and I think that that like rivalry could be so enhanced if Australia tapped into what America has, you know. So yeah, yeah, I just I kind of not to say it's not there, but I just think in comparison, it's just not it's not there, you know. So absolutely what you're saying, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I do I think we're trying, but I also think that from a population perspective, you know, you've got 36 million to 350 million, you know, the NCAA alone is like at least a 65 billion dollar entity. You know, it's just I don't think that you know we can try, but I just don't think from our size, it's never going to match up to something that's been established for so for decades and decades, right? Yeah, um but I am going to I'm gonna put my head down and read this now because these are your career honors, okay? Okay, great. Um and so out of so this is you know, if you look at the Tennessee website and you go to roll and you go to, you know, this is everyone at home, this is your job to do, you can see Sarah's um bio and everything that she achieved. So I have stolen this from there. So your career honors. So we've got 2024 CRCA first team all-american, all big 12 rowing team 2024. Um, you know, you CRCA National Scholar Athlete, SEC Academic Honor Roll, Big First Team, represented Team Australia at the 2024 World Rolling Under 23 champs, you know, AAC Boat of the Year Varsity 8, AAC all academic team 22, 23. So um that's just some, right? So out of all of those honors, and I note that some of them, and we may need to explain it for our listeners, some of them are athletic, some of them are academic. You know, what what are you most proud of out of that, Sarah?
SPEAKER_02:Oh god. Um I think like wow, I did a lot of things. I didn't even do that. Um I think obviously making the Australian team was like one of the pinnacles of my career. I think like working to I was working towards that. It's why I transferred to Tennessee. Like I knew I needed Kim to get there. Um, so I think I owe a lot of my career actually to Kim, um, or my whole career really, um, and MJ, sorry. Um, but yeah, she's listening. Um, but yeah, I um love it to OJ. Um, yeah, but yeah, big ups, yeah. Um, no, I I think rowing for Australia, like putting that green and gold on was just such an indescribable feeling. Like, I just was like, holy crap, other words were used, but yeah, I was like, holy crap, this is crazy. Like, I am literally gonna be going down the course against like Italy and other countries. Like, it wasn't like I did, I don't know, like it's just I don't even know how to explain it. Like, I literally was just like, holy crap, like there's a kangaroo on my back, like this is crazy. Um, and I think that was kind of when I went, holy moly, like this is I've done it. Like I was like this girl that started running when she was 12 for social vibes, and also because I liked the logo the school had on their website, like literally when it all started, and now I'm in Canada racing for my country, like that was a crazy moment. Um, but I think like that's the obvious go-to answer. Um, but I think getting the scholar award was huge for me. Like, I think I have always kind of never really considered myself to be a super intelligent person. And so I think like having that reflected through my grades while juggling sport, like 20-hour full-time work weeks basically, and you're like obviously work is tiring, but when you're training at that level all the time, twice a day, every day, it's one day off a week. It is so full-on. Sometimes you just lay on the floor and just exist. Um, and so it doesn't happen. And so, like to be able to still get that scholar, um, I don't even know the name of the award, but like to be recognized on the honor roll was really, really special. Um, and I think really a testament to how much student athletes put into their schooling. Like it's not, it's not all sunshine and rainbows, like you are training day in, day out, like you are doing school until 10:30, 11, pulling null nighters sometimes because you have not had time to do it, because sometimes it is athlete student, it's not student athlete. Like, and that's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. Like there's a different level of expectation for international athletes, and because you are being paid to be there, like on a full scholarship, whatever your situation is. Like, I was very fortunate that that was mine. And so, like, I had a very big felt like I had a big responsibility to show up for Kim. Like that was my job. Like, I was there to row for her, and sometimes it had to be athlete student. Um, yeah. So I think having that adaptability with that idea of athlete student versus an athlete having that on a role was really something that kind of was a testament to like, yeah, like again, you can do this, like it's not sunshine and I could do hard things, like girls. I'm just a girl, like I can do things, you know? And it's like I 100%. And um, I think that was really cool. Like, I think I was really proud of that. Um, definitely was not without help from my teammates and all that kind of stuff, and doing literal work in my locker 10 minutes before training started and submitting something on Canvas. Like there was obviously really grim moments, but again, not sunshine and rainbows, but I think that's what I was really proud of.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's it sounds like you know, to the grit, right? Just putting in when you need to. And what you've talked about all the support that you got, you know, from your coaches, from your team. What sort of support did you get as a from on the academic side of things as a student athlete?
SPEAKER_02:Um, the world's your oyster. As a student athlete, it's as simple as that. Like, I especially at Tennessee, um, they're a big school. I didn't really go into it think about how big the school matters. I'd obviously spoken to you guys about like class sizes. Um, when it's a bigger university, you're gonna have 100 class lectures versus 30 students if it's a smaller parameting university. That was a big thing I saw between SMU and Tennessee for specific classes. Um, but I think academic-wise, um it was kind of the same for SMU and Tennessee if I'm comparing the two. Um, but I had my academic advisor, she was great. Um, we kind of cycled through quite a through a few through rowing. Um, but when I was at Tennessee, we had one. Um, so she was great. She helped me select my classes, what classes I need to take, what summer courses I need to do, like all that kind of stuff. Um my dog is woofing in the kitchen, if you can hear that. I'm so sorry. Anyway, but uh yeah, so she was great. Um, I would literally tell her, I'm struggling this class, I need a tutor. It would be set up the following week, like that was ready to go. Um, there was always, she was always a text away if you're freaking out about a class or whatever you needed to do, like there was a way to solidify that. Like, and also the another great thing about being an athlete is you get early class selection. So we would literally be on the water doing our session and we'd have our phones with Kim, and she would literally come up to our boat and give us our phones, and we would log in and do all our class, um, like sign up for all our classes and stuff. And that would that's before the other students or the other students, yes. So, like we got early access to all those classes, yeah, which was great. So you were still able to do your classes and what you needed to do to graduate, but as like a student. So that was a hundred percent looked after, which was great. I'm trying to think of what other things now that I'm like reflecting on my time. But yeah, tutoring was always there. Um what about when you were on the road, like in season? Well, we had our academic advisor, she would come with us and proclaim. Oh wow, with you. Yeah, right. Yeah, so sometimes she would come. Um, if not, like she would help you reschedule all of your exams. Um, and I think being a student athlete helps that because sometimes you get some professors that aren't too nice, and other times you get really nice professors that are like, yeah, we'll do it when you get back or whatever. But um, working with them and then taking it up higher if you have to, like, there's they will work with you and your schedule to make sure that you have that. So, like, and there's ways to do your tutoring online, so you can still do tutoring on the road because sometimes you're away for a week at a time doing um stuff. So they really help you to work with your professors when you're away and then doing procted exams, as I said, and sometimes she'll come if need be. Um, so yeah, like there's so much support in that space to do that. And we also did like some exams to see whether or not like you struggled in different areas, and so they did like enrichment courses that way because um exams are different in a state in the states, it's very multiple choices sort of written, which is more of an Australian style, yeah. Um so yeah, that off the top of my head, that's kind of what we have. It's which is great, like it's yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like and and you had access to all the academic advisors too. Like you obviously had one that was central to you, but um, because we had 60 girls on our team, it was kind of spread like that's a big load for one person with freshmen to seniors, like so. She would also talk to our other advisor um that we would that kind of fluctuated and changed throughout the year, but yeah, so we always had extra support to lean on. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. And I think that's good because a question we do get asked a lot is I just don't understand how this works. So you see me, I'm going to be like a full-time student and get my undergrad, yeah, my bachelor's degree, and but I'm also gonna compete at this really high level. And again, it just comes down to having really nothing to compare it to here, right? So it's really good to get that understanding of the infrastructure that they put in place for students. Yeah, yeah, that's excellent. And um you referenced earlier that you know one of your biggest achievements is you know, making the Australian team. And again, so I just want to go back to that because there can often be a thought of if you go to college, you're giving up your opportunity to represent your country.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and we get that a lot across many sports, of that it's it's it's almost like it's mutually exclusive. You either want to rep, you know, stay here in Australia and represent here, or you go to college and you can't do both. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? Obviously, someone who's done both.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's not true, it does have the complications as you are not in the country. Um, but it's not true. I think I can only really speak to rowing as I understand how that works, but they literally, I think there are so many rowers in the states that are Australian and New Zealand as well. Um, but they literally have trials for American, Australian American-based athletes for the rowing team. So we, I think, and we always like I'm still getting emails from rowing Australia about keeping in touch about where we're at post-collegiate stuff. And so I think Rowing Australia has done a really good job of kind of bridging that gap because I think they realized how big of a gap there was between the athletes that are there and aren't there. Um, I think also like they flew some of the Aussie girls that um missed out on the under-23 team to the American trials to trial again. So, like, I think the idea that you can't it's mutually exclusive, I don't think really is true at all, because obviously I'm the exception. If you have any other athletes before me, not just me, but like I think um you are you're not bound by your contract at Tennessee, SMU, whatever school, that then means you can never row for Australia. They actually all run or whatever it is, like they actually encourage it. Because like not only does it make them look great, like they've got an Australian-based athlete in their team, like that's pretty cool, but also like they're a part of that journey, like they're helping get there, you know. And so, like, I literally I transferred uni's to ensure that I could do that with my coach, you know, like and um without her, I wouldn't have done it. Like, I just didn't have the training. And I think also like my situation's obviously very different to others, but I'm two hours away from Sydney. Like, so for me to even be in the mix, I would have to live somewhere else. And so I think like having the ability to live in the States, have the training that I need, get a degree at the same time, and then have that enrichment of the Australian American-based athletes is great because I was able to achieve both without it being mutually exclusive. It honestly probably would have been harder for me to do it here because I would have had to pay Sydney rent, and I'm not really interested in doing that. No.
SPEAKER_03:Like, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:You can do that. Yeah, exactly. Like, personally not me. But yeah, so I I think the idea that they're mutually exclusive isn't true. Like, I think there's if you want to do it, you can't, yeah. And it's like I think it's a mindset thing, if to be completely blunt, like I think like obviously there are challenges, but there are challenges in anything. Like you can be challenged to get the job you want or the degree you want or whatever, but like this is you making the Australian team. Like, obviously, there's a lot harder said, easier said than done, but um if you want to do something, you will do it. It's like such a mindset thing. That's something I realize in the States too. Like, if you just don't want to do it, you're not gonna do it. Um the idea that it's mutually exclusive, no, I think it's complicated. Yes, there's different ways to get there. I think rowing Australia does a really good job of bridging that gap. Um I wouldn't agree with that actually, very much so. I think it's just like if you want to do something at the end of the day, you're going to do it. If you don't want to do it and you half ass it, it's not gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01:So and I I think you know, further to what you've said about them doing a really good job, you know, um, you I agree with that. And I also then think at you as a as a governing body, you know, acknowledging that this is a very, very valid pathway, um, and it keeps athletes in the sport. So not not everyone's gonna whatever a sport it is, swimming, rowing, you know, water ball, tracking field, not everyone's gonna be an Olympian, not everyone is that level, right? And so to offer another really valid pathway that is then going to keep people in the sport, because when I asked you earlier, so what are you doing now? Well, you said funnily enough, I'm coaching rowing, you know. So look at you back here, yeah, you know, back in the system, so to speak, bringing an amazing experience, um, a wealth of knowledge. So, you know, you're talking about Kim and MJ and what the knowledge that they have imparted on you, you're now bringing that back to your rowing community. Yeah, taking like I just think so special, yeah, yeah, isn't it? You know, and so Australia is benefiting from that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and like there are girls in the NTC, the National Training Centre for the Australian team that are from the states. Like, I think there are well, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's four or five girls that are in the Aussie team though. So they've graduated, come home, and are now in China right now, like racing ships. And so um, there's another girl that I'm friends with that I rode with at Worlds last year, and she's actually actively at Stanford right now in sophomore year, I want to say. Sorry, Spaz. Um, but yeah, she's in sophomore year, um, and she is actively studying, and she is with the Australian team in China. So, like they lit they will work with you so and achieve your goals. Like, it's not a mutually, it's complicated. Like you're like doing study right now on that campaign, like no doubt about it. And she's like not actively training with the team in this in Stanford and whatever, but like she's still doing her Aussie stuff while actively being in the college system, not even graduated. So you know, like if you want to do it, you're gonna do it.
SPEAKER_01:That's absolutely and the universities, I think the biggest thing is is that the universities in the US are going to support you, you know, the majority are gonna support you through your Australian and and if that's your ultimate goal, then what we're encouraging our student athletes to do is when you're in the coach communication part of the process and talking to different coaches, you're sharing that this is your goal. And how does that look for you guys? Like if I get picked in the Australian team, if I reach that goal, yeah, and that can be a part of your decision-making tool, right? Like, yeah, yeah. Oh no, that's um actually I'm sorry, that wasn't an original question, that was what just came to me. So I am very glad that we chatted about that because it's very good. Yeah, it's something that we get asked a lot, right? And it's you know, will this mean that I'm excluding this? So it's really good to hear about someone who's lived it and lived it very recently. So that's that's fantastic.
SPEAKER_02:So from a growing perspective, yes, it's yeah, it's accomplishable. I can't speak to other sports, but of course, yeah, 100%. Like I think I would imagine that it's pretty similar, but yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I've got a couple of questions sort of to round out our chat, Sarah. So um I have you got advice? And I know you know, I'm I'm getting you to talk with your parents, like thinking of your parents, right, when you went to college. And you know, you were saying that you're ringing first semester crying. Mum, I don't want to, you know, which is I don't think there'd be one family who has had a student athlete or had their son or daughter go to college, you know, at any stage, not have that phone call from the other side of the world crying. And like all you want to do is fly over and get them. Oh my goodness, I've got a 16-year-old boy. Like, I can't, I've I can only imagine what that feels like, right? So there's that side of it. But do you have any advice for parents of rowers who are maybe going through the recruiting process now, who are thinking about it or have just started their journey, knowing what you know, what you needed, what yours, you know, and certainly, you know, no one's perfect, no one's gonna get it right, but just having gone through it yourself. Do you have any advice there?
SPEAKER_02:I think it's gonna sound so cheesy, um, but just trust the process. Like, I mum, like really was my rock throughout first semester. Like, I obviously I had my girls around me, but I think mum really got me through it because she was like, Sarah, give it three months. If you hate it by the end of three months, we'll talk about coming home. Like, if you really hate it, we can bring you home. And that's always an option. Like, I don't want to encourage that, but like you can leave at any point. There will be hurdles do jump through, and it will be a huge choice. Um, but I wouldn't recommend it, but you can. If that's what suits you in your situation, 100% I would recommend it for you. Like, that's you, but for me, there was no way I was going home. Like, I was if I if mum, if I think if those phone calls were recorded, I would literally laugh now. Like, I literally be like, she had no idea what was coming. Like, she she loves it, like she misses it so much. And so I think for parents that are receiving those phone calls of their daughter or son, like in shambles on the other side of the phone, going, take me home, trust the process, like it like give it time. Like, nothing is ever easy. And I think allowing yourself, like we kind of spoke about this earlier, like being kind to yourself in those moments are really important. And I think it's really hard to look at it from an outside perspective. Like, your kid is calling you, all you want to do is like come home, it's all good. Make it okay. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, that's the innate response to that. And so I think taking a step back, going the opportunities that are in front of my child right now, like they need to know that, like they need to know that they can do this, like having that confidence in themselves to be able to make that transition work. Like, any transition's hard, like transitioning back from the states is hard. Like, and I think um that would be my advice like trust. The process. Know that you've picked the right school. Know that you've done everything you had, you've done your needed to do, like you've done your research, you've backed your decision. Like you wouldn't have picked a school if or gone across ahead with it if you weren't sure. So like I think being a hundred in your decision also is so important. Like, yeah, I think that idea too is super, super good. So that would be me. Like super cheesy, but trust the process. No, absolutely. And I yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_01:So um, I'm not sure if you remember, but we before our student athletes depart, you know, whoever they've worked with from our team, whether it's Chris or one of our other recruiting mentors, uh, they always give what we call a departure call. So it's like, you know, a week out, just uh, hey, how are you feeling about everything? And you know, whoever works with Chris, you know, it's normally a 20-minute phone call of him imparting his words of inwisdom. It's a bit shorter, but Chris, yeah. And yeah, I I've I've listened to many of them and heard them, and and um, you know, it's about you know, nothing's going to be perfect. You know, there's all you're going to have to be open-minded, you know. Yeah. You're going to meet people of all different walks of life.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Your bed might be uncomfortable. You know, you might show up to training and not perform well your first couple of times.
SPEAKER_02:You know, like trust me, it happens. Yeah, you know. Even in senior year, it happens. It always happens. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. You know, so there's just um, it's never going to be, you know, like you said, it's not all blue skies and and rainbows, and it's not going to be this perfect road where you go over there and everything's going to be as it as you thought it was going to be. So it's just about remaining open and and not closing yourself down too quickly. Yes, you can ring mum and dad and and 100%.
SPEAKER_02:Have to cry. Like, you've got to get it out. Because then you go, well, mum still wants me. That's good. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's kind of like I think almost therapeutic, like to just let it out. Get it out. Especially like and communicating with your other, I guess, like advice to people going over is like lean on your teammates. Like, these people are going to be in your life day in, day out. Like, and they know exactly how you're feeling. They had the same amount of course load, they are doing the same thing as you, they are in and out of the mud with you. And I think leaning on those people and really being open to your coaches and being honest about where you're at. Like, you don't need to be this like stoic person that's come from Australia, like, I'm ready to go, I don't miss home. Like, you don't need to show that. You don't need to be vulnerable with your coaches and your teammates. Like, that's the point, right? Like, you don't like the reason I chose SMU was because Kim and MJ were my coaches. Like, I didn't pick it for like this big name school, like I didn't even know what a conference was. Like, I literally picked it for Kim and MJ. And I just happened to have this really good gut feeling, and it really worked out for me because I'm a very competitive person. Um, but like I genuinely picked Kim and MJ because I just clicked with MJ and she was my main recruiter. And um MJ and I still text all the time. And she and same with Kim. And I just think the idea of just backing your choice, like in those moments when you're like, I feel so bad, but I have to go to training, like just be vulnerable. Like they're those people that are have encouraged you to come, they're gonna nurture you and they want to put their energy into you. So let them do that and let them build you up to be someone that is able to then trust the process. Because I think if you are in that position where you don't allow yourself to be open, you're not gonna be able to trust the process because you're not being vulnerable and being like, I guess, open again to that growth and that transition and such and such. Yeah. So I can ramble on about that for you. No, I just like um do you know what I think?
SPEAKER_01:We have to always come up with a name of the pot or the title of the podcast. Yeah, we're gonna call it I didn't even know what a conference was.
SPEAKER_02:That's I think that's genuine, and it's like no word of a lie. Like you could do, choose your own conference. Like seriously, I literally had no idea. Like, if like I don't even know how that's not anything on you either. Like, I do no research. Like, I literally just went, whatever, like, which is so rowing. Like, when you think about it, like 17 conference, what is it? Like, I the whole premise of the rowing, anyway.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, I know, isn't that amazing?
SPEAKER_02:I know.
SPEAKER_01:Um all right, so I'm gonna wrap up with one one last question. And again, when we were catching up before we started recording the podcast, we actually we talked about this, and it's about the transition back, right? So the transition over is one part, right? Is is transitioning over, and you know, you're having four plus years in the US and creating lifelong friendships, you know, creating your tribe, and then eventually that comes to an end, and everyone has to go back to where they came from, or they stay in America, or whatever it is that they do, but they move on, right? And so you're you've come back to Australia, you're back at home right now. Um, and something we talk about in the office quite a bit is this transition back because we've got team members who are, you know, recently you know, returned from from college themselves and and coming back and finding their feet in Australia and and with their friends and with their family, and you know, if you go back to living at home, you know, all of a sudden mum wants to know if I'm home for dinner. No one asked me whether I was going to be home for dinner for the last four years, you know, no one needed to know my whereabouts, and there's just so much to it. So, how have you found that? And you know, for through the challenges, what have you been doing to help make that transition a little bit better every day?
SPEAKER_02:I think nothing could have prepared me for the transition. Like, I I think it I kind of said to myself at the end of senior year, I was like, I'm done with rowing after this, like, do your big one, like get into it. I kind of was like, I want to devote my time to myself. Like, as it's not selfish, like that's what everyone can do, but like in a selfish way, of like I've been in a team sport for so long. Like, you show up for your teammates and yourself, but you do it for the people around you. Rowing is a sport that is bigger than yourself. And I think a lot of sports are like that when you go into a collegiate space, but um, especially just with my experience, like it is a sport that you do for other people. And I think for me, in my head, I was like, I'm done after this, like I'm ready to just do my if I make the Aussie team awesome, like one more race after N double A's, like whatever, because you trial in June after end season, third of June, um, like late June. Um, but anyway, that's regardless context. Um, but yeah, I was like, I've got one more race after this if need be. Like, cool. And then I'd be with my Aussie girls, like because it would be an Aussie boat, like which is great. And then had that, and then I had because of well, this is kind of a can of word, so it's all wrapping up, but like no, no, no, go for it. Because of my eligibility, like when I went in January, that was I guess a con we could link back, but I only got three and a half of rowing because I went in Jan, because I raced, I didn't get the full four years because I was I went early. So I which pro and con, like I was able to just live my life as a uni student. Um, and I think that really helped personally my transition. I was really lucky in that regard. I still and my roommate, my best friend Shill, Sophie, was in the same position. Um, and another girl, Sasha, who was on the team, was in the same position because she was an American and she ended up going back to Tennessee and got her grad degree um because of COVID and all that kind of stuff, different years and whatever. But um, so she had an extra six months. So we all like my three best friends and I kind of all graduated at the end of the time. So we had that time to transition as a non-athlete together. So I think that for me really helped because I kind of lost rowing in six months and then I lost America after that. So it wasn't like I lost the wing and they was like, here's a taste art, here's another like pullback. So I think like that really helped me. But I literally got home and I remember the day so clear. It was Christmas Day. So I got home on the 24th of December. So I was so jet lagged. I was sitting down at the table, and my sister was getting a present. Actually, this sounds horrible. It's not about the present. I literally started sobbing, like I literally started crying, and Mum was like, What's wrong? My sister went and picked me a bouquet of flowers. I was like, it's not about the presents. I just I can't believe I'm home. Like I was like, what is going on? I just had like this full identity crisis. I was like, what am I doing? Like, I literally like I'm not rowing anymore. I haven't rowed in about six months. Like I've just been living like a college student. Like I like I don't have a job. Like, I was like, do I pay rent at home now? Like, what am I doing? It's like I live in my high school bedroom, like the wall is blue. Like, I'm like, what is going on? Um, and so I think like transitioning was so hard. I think I'm kind of now, what is it, like September? I'm kind of in December. Like I am last year just now feeling like I've got my feet, like it takes a long time. And I think the idea that we kind of spoke about earlier, like be kind to yourself, is so even more relevant now. Like, I think you have such, as you said, tribe, like you have your people, like you just you find yourself over there, like you leave one person and come back another. Um, and so I think, and you're also coming back to a place that is familiar, but it's new because you haven't been there for four years. Like you've said hello and you've said goodbye to your friends that you've caught up with for the three weeks you're home or whatever the schedule looks like for whatever sport, but like it's so different, like, but it's the same. And I think that's what's really hard. I think going from like I lived in Knoxville, like that was a huge country music, like country bar, western, and then you come to Newcastle. Like, where are you going to a country western bar? Nowhere. Um I think like even like all those little co um cultural shifts in that department too was tough. Um, but the way that I kind of coped the whole premise of the question, um, I started actually like going on a lot of walks and just listening to like self-help podcasts. Like I was like, what do I do? Um, so I think trying to just kind of figure out because you've kind of found out who you are in the States, and then you're finding out who you are at home. And I think having that, like those moments to yourself to just kind of reflect on where you're at was really important for me. Like listening to those podcasts and going for a walk and like having um my family around me to support me with whatever knee I needed. Like I was like, Mom, I just need to cry on your shoulder. I'm fine, I just need to cry. Yeah, whatever it is, like 100%. Like having those moments was also really important. And I think um, I think I am lucky that I was able to go straight into rowing coaching. So like I still had my foot in the door of rowing, like I was still surrounded, I still am, I still earn rowing coaching. Um, but like having your foot, I guess a toe dipped in really helps me. Like, not just being cold turkey gone. Like I think that was obviously the six months transition, as I mentioned earlier, but I was still in the States, you know. So like coming home and having my toe in was great. Um, and working in the sports space now, I think has been really good. And I think I'm a lot more confident to go back to uni next year and do what I want to do actually, which is in the health field, not even sports. So I think it's very the transition is hard, and I think it's very unique to what you need in each situation. So for me, like I needed to go for long walks and have my headphones on and walk the dog and just kind of be present in the moment and think about how this lady on the podcast is telling me that breathing through something is gonna help you, which it is. I'm not taking the mick, but yeah, yeah. My facial expression said otherwise, not what I meant to do. So, like it's like I think actually being really present was really helpful because I think in the States, like it's always a whirlwind, like there's always something going on. You're always training for a million hours, you're going to a football game, which is insane. Um, the American experience or a wrestling match, whatever it is. Um like you have all these experiences that are so constant, and then you live with your parents again, like when you first come home and the dinner thing is so real, like last week for not telling her I was like, right, I have to do that still. Like all those little things that you don't even think about, like going back to the sponge, like the sponges is a home. You don't need to support yourself in those little ways anymore. Like, you don't need to have all that stuff, and so everyone's situation is different. But I think that for me, like being present and just being aware that like it is hard. And I think I was talking to Sophie all the time, like, and I she was like, Are you like in the trenches as well? I was like, Yeah, like I like I don't I lived with her for four years and I haven't seen her in six months, like it's so weird. And I think having ways, if you're able to like to connect with those people that you had, like in person is really important. Like, I like and have a countdown on my phone to like when I'll see her again, and like it'll get easier. It's literally I've been home for nine months, like, and so um well, 10 nearly. Um, but it's just having what works for you and identifying how you need to transition is really important. And I'm realizing that there's no perfect advice, there's no perfect timeline, everyone's is different. And I think like for me, I found that I needed to have my foot in the door still, I needed to be in the sports space, so I'm still actively doing stuff with sport, but it's not in the same light, and I think it really helped me. And then doing little things like a walk or I don't know, like catching up, making an effort to see your friends and talk to your American friends just make that shift easier until you don't need to rely on that once a week phone call with an American friend or like whatever it looks like. Yeah, bit by bit. Yeah, like you kind of just like get a little bit more used to it. It's like when you leave, like to Australia, like to America, like you kind of go, uh Mom, what do I do in this situation? You're calling every five seconds and then you call her, you don't call her once a month, but like for issues that need help with less and less you need less and less of that support in that way. So that makes sense. I think it's just it's the same but reverse. And I think it's just trying to find out who you are in a town that you had known for so long, and then shifting it forward into this is who I am now. Where does that reflect and where do I sit now? I think that's where that transition and challenge is.
SPEAKER_01:But I think you just articulated that really well. And and the other thing is you're only 22, like, and I forget that.
SPEAKER_02:I'm a 30-year-old woman at home, I need to have a job, black, I need to get married yesterday. What's going on? But I'm literally I'm 22.
SPEAKER_01:Like I probably feel like you've lived a whole life already because of you know the experiences that you've had, the travel that you've done, all of those things. But and and again, it goes back to being kind to yourself and patient. Yeah, you know, it's um and and it's exactly what you did going to the US, but in reverse, and just bring that, and that was being kind, patient, and trusting the process again, right?
SPEAKER_02:Like and now you know what a conference is, so you've watched it. Yeah, and that's it. And so you're you're global already. Exactly. Full circle. 100%. We've made the connection, great. It has to be the title.
SPEAKER_03:100% we've got to link it together. We will do it. I will make sure we do it.
SPEAKER_01:But I I I'm so pleased that you are able to share that. Um, you know, about the transitioning home. It's a big thing, it's not really spoken about, and it's yeah, it sometimes can be as difficult as going over and just knowing, you know, all of that. So I think it's and as a team and with our student athletes, we're trying to talk about it more and more and see what we can do in a support way to help with that. Um, but I think for us, what really highlighted it for us is having, you know, team members who have joined the study and play team to work for us and and they've come straight from college and you see it, you feel it, you're a part of it with them, of them just adjusting to a different life. And and even though it was, gosh, you know, we're probably getting close to 28 years ago for Chris, he still remembers how you know it's just difficult that was.
SPEAKER_02:100%. It's like, sorry to cut you off, but like it's like what what's it like being a student athlete? It's like you just can't even explain it. Like it's kind of just something you go through that you then understand and relate to others. And so I think the idea that like the timeline is so individual is so important to highlight, like everyone's gonna be at different stages in their journey. It's like where you are in your rowing journey, or like if you're in the recruitment process, or if you're deciding you want to go into this and whatever, like I think understanding that no timeline is like this static thing, like it's dynamic and it's never gonna be the same thing for everyone. And so when you're going through this, the idea that we've kind of said a million times and circle back to that like be kind to yourself, like let yourself feel everything is so important. Like, and I think letting yourself talk to people and be vulnerable about how you're feeling is so important. Like, I couldn't have got through what happened with that chill. Like, I literally, Sophie, I was literally like, Are you in the trenches too? She was like, Absolutely, babe, like we are down bad right now, like I'm booking a flight tomorrow, like kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01:Sometimes just hearing someone, not that you need someone else to feel the same way that you almost validates how you it does. It's like, oh, okay, so this isn't just me, this is probably normal and something I I think, and that's why just us talking about this. If if a student athlete, you know, or someone that's in their senior year, just starting their senior year, you know, just to start thinking about this to have an awareness, if that helps, I that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02:Amazing because I I just wasn't even ready. And I literally said that to my coach, like, I was like, so you didn't tell me how crap the transition home was gonna be like. She was like, Yeah, sorry about that. I was like, I literally, what are we doing? Like, I was like, I didn't see them every day, it's so weird. So yeah, it's just I think raising awareness to that fact is really important. Like, I have a lot of friends graduating in May. Um, and so I will be letting them know like Kiwis and Aussies and everything. So I'm gonna be like just a heads up. That's so like talking about it. And so yeah, I think it's really important to highlight that for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um, well, Sarah, I I'm putting my proud mum hat back on, but honestly, I you don't need to hear it from me. You should be so incredibly proud of yourself, the journey that you have been on, um, what you've achieved. But I think more than all of those things on that honor, your career honor role that I that I listed out is just the personal growth that you know I have seen, and you know, I don't know you as as well as others, right? But even I can see that, right? In the time, the personal growth that you have experienced, and I think you've just um embraced it all good, bad, ugly, everything, and just uh it's it's awesome to see. And I think um yeah, I think you should be really proud of yourself.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. It's um good, bad, and ugly is definitely um a great way to put it. Like I think America is a can of worms in itself, and so I think like putting yourself in that situation in the first place is something you should be proud of for any athlete in pursuing it because it's a huge decision, like it's not something to take lightly. Um, and I think like just I don't even know what I'm saying at this point, but like just like who you become once you go over is not who you are, like when you leave, if that makes sense. Like you really do experience so many things that I can't even list to you right now that were like life-changing moments, but it genuinely changed my life for the better. And I'm like, I know we spoke about like we're not trying to sell it, but I can't not, like, I literally can't not. Like, it's like it was genuinely the best thing I've ever done. If someone ever comes to me, should I do it? I'm like, yep, like you need to go to it because it's just it's you can tailor your experience to your school with what you want out of it. And I think if you go in, I think if there was any advice for myself going into this, it would be like, what do you want out of this experience? Do you want to go over, meet friends, row on the side, and then do college and get a degree? Do you want to go over and be competitive and be a part of a team that goes from 25th to third? Like, do you want to do that stuff? Like, what is what are you after? And I think the good, the bad, the ugly will be tailored to that experience. And so like getting into it in that way, I think I would have loved to have had that said to me because I genuinely was just like, whatever, I'm gonna the states, but like, no, you're gonna change as a human being. Like, you don't even understand. I can't even explain to you how you're gonna do it. Like, you were just gonna, every time I came home, mom goes, so different in a good way. I'm like, Great, good news, like, great.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, yeah, I see it all the time. And it's just the intangibles that happen to you over there that you can't even, you know, there's the stuff that you can list out. Yes, you're gonna get scholarship, yes, you know, you may not come home with a hex, you know, you're not gonna have a hex debt if you get a full scholarship. You're gonna get this. They're all the things that you can just put on a PowerPoint slide and and dot point out. But I there's 10 times the amount of those things that just live in between it that you can't even identify. Like that's the hard stuff to get across, right? And and that's what you're trying to, and it's just and that's where the passion comes from because you've lived it, you've experienced it, you've seen the outcomes of the of the impact that it's had on you. Yeah, and the fact that the closest people around you see that as well is is awesome. So it is, it's those intangibles that just it sets it apart from the other experience for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Like those moments are what make it worth it. Like, I obviously am so stoked to have done my whole experience and to have made the team, but like to have developed into who I am today, like and have a bit of the American like back yourself vibe. Like, I think I am so grateful that I went and was able to experience all of those things because it shaped me into who I am today. Like every life experience we have is a lesson, and I think the way we grow and adapt from those moments is what shape us as people. And so moving across the world at 18 is definitely one of those experiences that are gonna shape you. If you are closed off to it, you're not gonna be able to embrace everything that's coming for you. And I think one messenger chat is gonna change everything. Like if you're closed off to it, like it's not gonna happen, you know. So I think that's an example. So yeah, that 100% I 100% agree with everything you're saying. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I am going to finish our chat on um a fun note. In I you mentioned country bars in Knoxville. I am our family are hardcore country music fans. Love it.
SPEAKER_02:Hardcore. Okay, yeah. Are you? Have you been changed? I have been changed. I wasn't, I wasn't. Come on, one person at a time. I l I hated it. Like I was like, getting away from the country bummer, like get it away. I literally have an entire playlist like dedicated to it. Like I saw Morgan Mollin live, like I like obsessed with country music now. I am struggling to listen into it at the moment on my timeline of transitioning. Country music isn't my go-to at the minute. Um, but like I love country music now. Like I love it, it's so good. Like I feel like I've matured in that way, you know. Like I've my music take care of it. Mature people listen to country.
SPEAKER_01:100%. Yeah, yeah. So who's your favorite? Oh, Chris Stapleton for sure. Oh, stop, us too. We saw him last year. Oh no, this year. He came this year to Australia. Far out. Was he incredible? Oh my and talk about so I cried at wrestling, I cried at Chris Stapleton. Yeah, I would too. Yeah, yeah, I did.
SPEAKER_02:He's just probably they would come on and I would be oh dumb. I'm dumb. Like, oh seriously, oh my god, voice. I'm like, yeah, he's just in when he sings to his wife, don't even get me started.
SPEAKER_01:I know we've gone off on a complete tangent, but the whole concert was him and his wife just singing to each other. It's like I felt like I was just in their living room.
SPEAKER_02:Seriously, and it and you're in this huge stadium, and it's like unreal. Yeah, I know Chris Ableton for sure is my go-to.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I am so pleased you've been converted.
SPEAKER_02:That should be a selling point. You will love country music. That's it. Absolutely, you have to.
SPEAKER_01:I think my 16 year old our 16-year-old son is like the only boy in his school that listens to country to Drake. Like your mature honey, don't worry. Yeah, like you're just ahead of your time. Don't worry. Don't let them say anything to you about this. Oh Sarah, thank you. Thank you for joining us. I just thank you for having me. I'm just reflecting already on everything that we spoke about and how much that is just going to help athletes who are in the process, living it now, transitioning back. We've touched on every last bit of it, and I just feel you've imparted so much wisdom. That it's so honestly, just it's so valuable, right? So thank you. I appreciate you giving us your time.
SPEAKER_02:No, thank you for having me and listening to me ramble and say the same thing in different ways. Like I appreciate it, but yeah, no way. Always glad to be here and talk about it because I literally am so on the train of everyone go. So amazing.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thanks for joining us, Sarah.
SPEAKER_02:No, thank you for having me. It was great to chat.