The Online Investment Boom: Anderson Sumarli of Ajaib

Ant Financial’s IPO filing last week revealed that the Chinese fintech juggernaut currently boasts more than one billion annual active users, offering a glimpse into how utterly pervasive online financial services could become in markets such as Indonesia.

Indonesia’s fintech scene indeed continues to grow strongly by most measures, and this week’s Indo Tekno guest, Anderson Sumarli, CEO and Cofounder of Ajaib, is helping to lead this charge. Ajaib is an investing platform that allows Indonesians to buy and sell stocks, ETFs, mutual funds and other retail financial products. The company activated 200,000+ new retail investors in Indonesia in 2019, contributing one-quarter of all new retail investors in Indonesia last year.

The pandemic has moreover served to accelerate further Indonesia’s online retail investment boom. As an example, the daily average number of Indonesian retail stock investors transacting online surged by more than 82% in the four months between March 2020 and July 2020 alone, from 51,000 to 93,000 investors. 

The simplest and most powerful component to Anderson’s vision of longer term secular growth in online retail investment is the fact that Indonesia has the largest capital markets in Southeast Asia but perversely has one of the world's lowest investment penetration rates, at less than 1%. There is one demographic that will continue driving the searing growth in this segment: Indonesia's mobile-first, digitally native millennials. They have proven particularly responsive to new "technology-first" trading platforms such as Ajaib. Unlike their parents, this group prefers a stock broker that is branchless, fully online and "mobile-first." As a technology-intensive, asset light online broker, Ajaib is able to offer zero commissions on mutual funds, and the lowest fees in the market for stock trading.

Anderson also addressed one of the most widely discussed transactions within Indonesia’s broader financial landscape this year, namely Ajaib’s acquisition of traditional securities broker PT Primasia Sekuritas, discussing plans around integrating services, personnel and other parts of the two businesses. The most alluring challenge facing players such as Ajaib remains a profound lack of financial literacy amongst retail investors. The platform has built the country’s largest repository of investment content in the Indonesian language in order to tackle this challenge. While Ajaib has an extensive roadmap of new products laid out over the next several months, its longer term mission is to leverage technology for two main purposes: 1) broadening educational initiatives around retail investing while 2) improving affordability to all. 

Transcript

(English version appears after Bahasa Indonesia version below)

ALAN 0:11
Selamat datang di Episode 13 Indo Tekno. Selamat datang, semuanya. Terima kasih telah mendengarkan. Kami dengan cepat memberi undangan untuk tamu hari ini begitu kami mendengar rencana pengajuan publik afiliasi fintech Alibaba, Ant Financial, di China minggu lalu. Ant Financial, perusahaan fintech bernilai tertinggi di dunia juga kemungkinan akan melaksanakan IPO terbesar di dunia dalam dual listing yang direncanakan di Shanghai dan Hong Kong, dengan target valuasi $ 225 miliar akhir tahun ini. Setelah mengamati lanskap online personal finance di Indonesia, kami sangat senang dapat mengundang Anderson Sumarli, CEO dan Co-Founder Ajaib. Ajaib sering disebut sebagai "Robin Hood" Indonesia, karena Ajaib, seperti sepupu Robin Hood di Barat, yang juga menawarkan layanan saham dan reksa dana yang dapat diakses secara online. Yang paling penting Ajaib menjadikan layanan ini terjangkau untuk semua lapisan piramida pendapatan di Indonesia. Anderson, sekali lagi terima kasih telah bergabung.

ANDERSON SUMARLI 1:16
Terima kasih sudah mengundang saya.

ALAN 1:17
Anderson, tolong ceritakan latar belakang Anda dan juga kisah awal mula Ajaib.

ANDERSON SUMARLI 1:22
Saya salah satu pendiri dan CEO Ajaib. Sebelumnya, latar belakang saya selalu di bidang jasa keuangan atau teknologi. Saya sebenarnya memulai karir saya di IBM dengan bekerja di kantor analitik utama mereka di kantor pusat New York. Di sanalah saya mulai jatuh cinta dengan data dan analitik, dan membantu mereka berkembang di Asia dan Eropa. Setelah beberapa tahun bekerja di sana, saya kembali ke Indonesia dan bergabung dengan Boston Consulting Group. Saat itu, mereka berada pada periode waktu yang cukup menarik; baru saja akan meluncurkan praktik Financial Services dan Technology Advantage. Saya senang bekerja di sana, menasihati banyak bank dan perusahaan multifinance besar tentang cara membuat lompatan ke digital. Dari sana saya mulai menyadari bahwa ada beberapa celah dalam dunia FinTech. Ada banyak bank dan perusahaan digital dalam pembayaran digital, pinjaman digital; tetapi sebenarnya tidak ada yang berinovasi dalam bidang investasi. Dan itulah yang mendorong saya untuk memulai Ajaib. Saya merasa inovasi dalam industri investasi di Indonesia masih kurang.

ALAN 2:20
Saat ini, Indonesia menjadi tuan rumah pasar modal terbesar di Asia Tenggara. Namun, Anda baru-baru ini memperkirakan bahwa Indonesia memiliki salah satu tingkat penetrasi investasi terendah di dunia, yaitu sekitar 1%. Bagaimana pendapat Anda tentang peluang jangka panjang dalam hal ini?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 2:37
Ya, hal ini sebenarnya cukup menarik untuk dipikirkan. Kapitalisasi pasar Indonesia adalah setengah triliun dolar. Banyak orang yang tidak menyadari bahwa pasar saham Indonesia lebih besar dari Singapura, meskipun banyak yang menganggap Singapura sebagai pusat layanan keuangan Asia Tenggara. Dan yang lebih gila lagi adalah mengetahui bahwa hanya setengah persen dari negara ini yang berinvestasi pada saham. Kita tidak perlu pergi terlalu jauh. Lihat saja Thailand. Mereka jauh lebih tinggi dari Indonesia dalam hal penetrasi investasi. Melihat India, mereka berada pada dua setengah persen. Cina dalam dua digit. Dan lagi, Indonesia masih setengah persen. Indonesia mungkin saja menjadi salah satu pasar saham terbesar di dunia dengan penetrasi investasi terendah. Dan itulah mengapa saya sangat optimis dengan peluang di Indonesia. Dan saya pikir tren ini akan meningkat. Jika menurut Anda kapitalisasi pasar Indonesia setengah triliun dolar sudah besar, Anda akan terkejut dalam beberapa tahun mendatang.

ALAN 3:36
Dapatkah Anda menguraikan secara singkat proposisi nilai yang Ajaib saat ini hadirkan kepada target pasar Indonesia?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 3:42
Di Ajaib, misi kami adalah membawa investor generasi baru ke layanan keuangan modern. Maka dari itu, kami menawarkan beberapa hal. Pertama-tama, kami “mengutamakan teknologi". Faktanya, kami adalah pialang saham pertama yang tidak memiliki cabang, sepenuhnya online, dan "mengutamakan seluler". Itu memungkinkan kami melakukan beberapa hal. A) memungkinkan kami untuk menawarkan biaya termurah di Indonesia. Faktanya, dengan bisnis reksa dana kami, kami menawarkan komisi nol. Dan dengan saham, kami menawarkan biaya terendah di pasar. Dan kami melakukan ini karena kami telah mengotomatiskan semua proses, dan mendekati pelanggan kami secara online yang efisien dan aman. Dan B) juga memungkinkan kami untuk mendidik pelanggan. Kami memiliki gudang konten investasi terbesar dalam bahasa Indonesia. Dan kami dapat menjangkau pelanggan melalui situs web kami, melalui media sosial, melalui aplikasi, semua sepenuhnya online terutama selama periode COVID ini. Jadi proposisi nilai kami benar-benar didorong oleh teknologi dalam membuat layanan keuangan lebih terjangkau, dan juga membuat edukasi lebih mudah diakses.

ALAN 4:49
Kalau tidak salah Anderson, setelah meluncurkan penawaran reksa dana online pertama Anda pada Januari 2019, Ajaib telah membuka lebih dari 200.000 retail investors baru di seluruh Indonesia. Ini kira-kira 25% dari semua investor ritel baru di Indonesia tahun lalu. Bagaimana pendapat Anda tentang 2020 dan 2021?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 5:09
Iya. Betapa hebatnya, mengetahui bahwa di tahun pertama peluncuran kami, kami menyumbangkan satu dari setiap empat retail investor baru di seluruh negeri? Saya pikir hal seperti itu akan sulit dicapai di pasar lain yang sudah berkembang. Dan ini memberi tahu kita bahwa pasar ini hanya meminta inovasi. Orang ingin berinvestasi, tetapi mereka tidak tahu caranya atau mereka tidak mampu untuk berinvestasi. Visi kami untuk tahun 2020 dan 2021 lebih ambisius. Namun, kami juga ingin lebih fokus pada pendalaman finansial. Kami ingin memastikan bahwa 200.000 dan investor berkembang yang kami miliki di platform kami memahami apa yang mereka investasikan, memahami apa perbedaan antara reksa dana dan pialang saham, dan memahami keputusan yang mereka ambil yang akan memengaruhi kebebasan finansial masa depan mereka. Itulah mengapa kami berinvestasi besar-besaran pada edukasi. Kami menggandakan platform teknologi kami untuk membuat edukasi lebih mudah diakses, dan juga membuat investasi jauh lebih murah dan dapat diakses oleh semua orang dari semua lapisan masyarakat.

ALAN 6:19
Anderson, siapa pesaing kita?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 6:22
Persaingan utama kami adalah kurangnya literasi keuangan. Sejujurnya di Ajaib, lebih dari 90% investor kami adalah investor pemula. Mereka tidak pernah berinvestasi dalam apa pun sebelum mereka menggunakan platform kami. Jadi, tugas kita ketika mereka datang ke platform bukanlah meyakinkan mereka untuk berinvestasi pada kita, dan tidak berinvestasi di A, B atau C. Tugas kita adalah meyakinkan mereka bahwa mereka harus berinvestasi, bahwa ini bagus untuk masa depan mereka, bahwa ini akan mengangkat posisi keuangan mereka. Jadi setiap hari tim kami fokus dan memikirkan: "bagaimana kami menjangkau semua generasi muda milenial ini dengan pesan bahwa mereka perlu berinvestasi agar dapat mengalahkan tingkat inflasi di Indonesia, sehingga mereka bisa memiliki masa depan yang lebih cerah. "

ALAN 7:09
Anderson, bisakah Anda berbagi dengan kami visi di balik raksasa yang mengakuisisi broker sekuritas PT Primasia Sekuritas awal tahun ini? Bagaimana Anda mengintegrasikan layanan, personel, dan bagian lain dari bisnis?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 7:20
Ya, inilah tantangan terbesar yang pernah saya hadapi dalam karir saya. Tapi itu sangat menyenangkan. Kami menyadari dari awal hal paling penting dalam layanan keuangan adalah kepercayaan. Kedudukan regulasi sangat penting. Jadi, alih-alih bermitra dengan broker lain, kami memutuskan untuk mengakuisisi broker dan menjadi broker itu sendiri. Dengan begitu, kami memperlakukan proses akuisisi dengan cara terbaik yang kami tahu, terutama karena kami menutup akuisisi selama periode COVID. Jadi kami telah mempertahankan semua karyawan yang kami peroleh. Kami sudah mulai mengintegrasikan mereka ke dalam budaya kami, dan kami telah berbagi pengetahuan dengan mereka, karena perusahaan yang kami akuisisi ini sudah ada selama 30 hingga 40 tahun. Jadi mereka mengerti apa yang diperlukan untuk menjalankan broker saham. Mereka memahami pentingnya operasional di baliknya. Mereka memahami prosedur operasi standar yang sesuai. Jadi kami terus belajar dari satu sama lain. Dan visinya adalah kita dapat mengambil pengetahuan - pengetahuan institusional - yang mereka miliki tentang bagaimana menjalankan broker saham, dan kita dapat menyuntikkannya dengan teknologi zaman modern. Dan itulah mengapa saat ini kami adalah satu-satunya broker di Indonesia yang sepenuhnya online tanpa cabang apa pun.

ALAN 8:36
Anderson, apa saja regulasi seputar Ajaib?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 8:40
Regulasi di sini sangat kompleks. Biar saya mulai dengan itu. Kami memiliki semua jenis lisensi. Sebagai permulaan, kami memiliki lisensi broker-dealer penuh. Kami juga perlu memiliki lisensi broker reksa dana, dan banyak lisensi lainnya untuk bisa meluncurkan produk kami secara online. Jadi kami berteman baik dengan otoritas keuangan Indonesia. Kami berteman baik dengan Bursa Efek Indonesia. Kami melihat hubungan ini sebagai kemitraan. Ini adalah kemitraan kepercayaan dan juga untuk membawa pendidikan kepada massa: target pasar kami, berupa investor milenial yang baru pertama kali berinvestasi.

ALAN 9:17
Ant Financials "Yuebao" adalah dana pasar uang terbesar di China dengan aset US $ 170 miliar. Apa rincian pangsa pasar reksa dana pasar uang di Indonesia? Dan di mana Anda melihat tren jangka panjang itu?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 9:31
Saya sangat mengagumi Yuebao. Faktanya, saya percaya bahwa mereka saat ini adalah reksa dana pasar uang terbesar di dunia. Pasar uang Indonesia sangat menarik. Percaya atau tidak, return berkisar antara 5-7%. Itu luar biasa. Rasio Sharpe berada di luar grafik. Bahkan, saya langsung memasukkan sebagian besar gaji saya ke dana pasar uang setelah saya mendapatkannya. Begitulah baiknya di Indonesia. Namun itu masih dalam tahap awal. Sebagian besar dana pasar uang saat ini di Indonesia masih dipegang oleh dana institusional. Jadi pasar ritel belum memahami kekuatan reksa dana pasar uang. Padahal, jika melihat laju inflasi di Indonesia saat ini berkisar antara 3% hingga 3,5%. Padahal imbal hasil yang akan Anda dapatkan dari rekening tabungan bank Anda kurang dari setengah persen dalam setahun. Banyak orang tidak mengerti bahwa dengan menyimpan uangnya di bank, mereka langsung merugi. Dan alternatif seperti reksa dana pasar uang, yang mengembalikan 5% hingga 7% adalah salah satu yang sangat menarik. Itulah yang terjadi di China, di mana semua generasi muda milenial sudah mulai menyadarinya dan mengalihkan dananya dari bank ke dana pasar uang. Itu belum terjadi di Indonesia, dan kami ingin memimpinnya melalui sumber daya pendidikan kami.

ALAN 10:56
Anderson, apa dampak COVID yang paling menonjol di pasar keuangan pribadi Indonesia?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 11:02
Wah, ini pertanyaan besar. Jika kita melihat di tempat lain di dunia, COVID pada dasarnya telah meningkatkan penetrasi investor ritel di setiap pasar saham. Tidak masalah jika Anda melihatnya di AS, di Brasil, di India, di Cina; ceritanya sama saja. Dan itu sedang terjadi sekarang di Indonesia. Dan kami sangat senang melihatnya. Saya punya dua teori di baliknya. Yang pertama: Sayangnya, COVID berdampak pada banyak orang di tempat kerja. Jadi, banyak dari mereka kehilangan pekerjaan atau mengurangi jam kerja. Jadi mereka kehilangan sumber pendapatan alternatif yang dapat mereka gunakan untuk menghasilkan uang. Investasi di platform kami, yang sepenuhnya online, sepenuhnya mobile, termasuk seluruh proses KYC onboarding, adalah sesuatu yang jauh lebih dapat diakses oleh orang-orang untuk menambah penghasilan harian mereka. Bagian kedua dari ini adalah, karena COVID, Indonesia telah memberlakukan kerja dari rumah selama enam bulan terakhir. Jadi kami melihat lonjakan besar di basis pengguna kami; penggunaannya selama jam kerja. Sebelumnya, kami hanya melihat mereka di pagi hari, melihat mereka beberapa saat setelah makan siang, mungkin setelah mereka istirahat makan siang di tempat kerja. Tapi sekarang kami melihat mereka secara konsisten aktif di platform kami sepanjang hari. Jadi sepertinya mereka bekerja dari jarak jauh tetapi pada saat yang sama menikmati produk kami sepanjang hari.

ALAN 12:26
Sekarang sebagian besar dari kita sangat menyadari bahwa generasi milenial Indonesia jauh lebih mengutamakan telepon mobile daripada pendahulunya, dan menjadi generasi digital sejati. Bagaimana mereka memahami bisnis kita?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 12:36
Nah, Ajaib adalah perusahaan yang berbasis mobile. Ketika kami memikirkan konsep ini, kami langsung tahu bahwa mobile adalah kuncinya; alasannya karena mobile adalah platform yang sangat kurang dimanfaatkan oleh para pemegang jabatan yang ada. Misalnya, hanya ada tiga broker Indonesia yang memiliki lebih dari 100.000 unduhan di aplikasi saham online mereka ... dan itu adalah unduhan, bahkan investor pun tidak. Jadi kami tahu kekuatan mobile, setelah melihat bagaimana Robinhood berkembang di AS sebagai broker online pertama, melihat bagaimana Zerodha berkembang di India dan di mana pun di dunia juga. Dan menurut saya, COVID benar-benar telah mempercepat adopsi mobile di kalangan milenial untuk kegiatan jasa keuangan karena alasan yang sangat sederhana—bahwa para milenial tidak ingin pergi dan bertemu orang lain di era ini. Mereka tidak mau pergi dan menemui teller di bank untuk membuka rekening. Mereka tidak mau pergi dan menangani 20 halaman dokumentasi untuk membuka akun broker. Mereka menginginkan segala sesuatunya cepat, mereka menginginkan hal-hal yang efisien, mereka menginginkan hal-hal yang dapat mereka lakukan di rumah, dan mereka ingin hal-hal yang aman dilakukan. Dan saat ini semua orang bekerja dari rumah. Semua orang dalam situasi kuncian. Dan itu hanya akan mempercepat adopsi seluler di kalangan milenial untuk layanan keuangan.

ALAN 13:58
Anderson, dapatkah Anda berbagi dengan kami perilaku atau tren menarik yang telah Anda lihat di basis pelanggan Anda sejak meluncurkan dana dan perdagangan saham secara online? Apakah, misalnya, demografis tertentu lebih "churn-and-burn" dari yang lain, dll?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 14:11
Ini sangat menarik karena kami telah melakukan pekerjaan yang hebat dalam menarik segmen pasar yang sangat spesifik, yang mencakup lebih dari 90% basis pengguna kami. Ini investasi pertama kali yang dilakukan milenial. Dan kami sangat bangga bisa menarik mereka. Entah bagaimana kami telah menciptakan produk yang berbicara sangat mendalam kepada mereka. Mereka memiliki perilaku pelanggan yang sangat unik. Mereka berisik. Mereka memberi tahu kepada banyak teman mereka. Mereka bersemangat tentang banyak hal. Orang akan mengantisipasi bahwa seseorang yang belum pernah berinvestasi sebelumnya akan menjadi kurang vokal tentang pengalaman investasi pertama mereka. Tetapi di sini kami ditambahkan secara acak ke grup WhatsApp setiap hari, karena pengguna kami membuat grup Whatsapp kecil dengan semua kolega mereka di tempat kerja. Ketika kita memikirkannya, itu sangat masuk akal. Dengan hanya setengah persen dari negara yang berinvestasi, setiap kali seseorang menjadi investor saham, mereka kemungkinan besar akan segera menjadi "ahli" di antara komunitas mereka, karena merekalah satu-satunya yang telah berinvestasi di saham. Jadi kami melihat bahwa meluncurkan perdagangan saham di platform online, di platform mobile, benar-benar mendorong generasi tersebut untuk membagikan kami di media sosial, WhatsApp, Instagram story, dan sebagainya. Dan itu benar-benar sesuatu yang mengejutkan kami.

ALAN 15:33
Sekarang, bagian dari value proposition, atau seperti Robinhood di Barat seperti yang Anda rujuk sebelumnya, adalah disrupsi terhadap broker tradisional dengan menjadi pialang saham online tanpa cabang pertama. Seberapa cepat Anda mengharapkan disintermediasi terjadi?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 15:47
Nah, bagi kami, Ajaib lahir sebagai broker saham tanpa cabang yang sepenuhnya online, jadi kami segera menghentikan proses tersebut. Tapi izinkan saya berbicara untuk rekan-rekan saya yang lain di pasar. Jika kita melihat broker terbesar di Indonesia saat ini, kekuatannya ada pada distribusi, khususnya distribusi fisik. Broker terbesar di Indonesia saat ini memiliki jaringan cabang fisik dan tenaga penjualan terbesar. Dan mereka melakukannya karena, saat mereka mengembangkan saluran distribusi tersebut, peraturan menyatakan bahwa Anda perlu melakukan KYC (Know Your Customer) atau onboarding akun secara tatap muka. Ingat, sebelumnya ketika saya berbicara tentang 20 halaman dokumentasi yang perlu dilakukan orang; sekarang zaman telah berubah. Dan sangat sulit bagi para incumbent untuk beradaptasi dengan perubahan tersebut karena jaringan distribusi cabang fisik dan tenaga penjualan ternyata sangat efektif dalam menarik segmen pasar tertentu, yaitu individu-individu dengan kekayaan bersih yang tinggi. Individu dengan kekayaan bersih tinggi masih menginginkan sentuhan fisik ini, masih ingin dapat berinteraksi dengan penjual tertentu. Jadi, sangat sulit bagi mereka untuk menghentikan semua itu, karena menghentikan semua itu berarti melepaskan klien-klien mereka yang bernilai tinggi yang menyumbang banyak volume mereka. Jadi menurut saya, ini adalah persimpangan jalan di mana para incumbents telah berkomitmen pada segmen pasar ini. Dan kami Ajaib telah berkomitmen pada segmen pasar yang berlawanan, yaitu milenial yang baru berinvestasi pertama kali. Jadi saya pikir kedua strategi ini dapat hidup berdampingan satu sama lain. Saya tidak berpikir semua orang akan menjadi online penuh tanpa memiliki cabang seperti Ajaib. Saya pikir kebanyakan orang masih akan memilih cabang fisik dan tenaga penjualan, dan tidak apa-apa, karena misi kami lagi, adalah untuk mendukung generasi investor baru. Jadi kami lebih peduli tentang menarik investor pertama kali ke platform kami.

ALAN 17:41
Melihat China, seperti yang sering kita lakukan di Indo Tekno, dua bisnis FinTech terbesar di China—Ant Financial di satu sisi; serta WeChatPay WeSure dan Licaitong di sisi lain—terhubung ke dua platform internet dan e-commerce terbesar di sana. Alibaba dan Tencent memiliki basis pengguna tawanan terbesar di Tiongkok: satu di e commerce dan lainnya di jejaring sosial. Seberapa pentingkah platform FinTech Indonesia untuk terhubung secara serupa ke bisnis captive, seperti SeaMoney dengan Shopee atau Ovo dengan Grab dan Tokopedia? Dan bagaimana Ajaib memandang posisinya?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 18:17
Itu pertanyaan yang sangat bagus. Ini sangat bergantung pada area FinTech Anda. Saya yakin Anda perlu terhubung ke platform ini. Jika Anda adalah perusahaan pembayaran, atau perusahaan pinjaman peer-to-peer, atau hanya perusahaan pemberi pinjaman kredit. Menurut saya ini penting untuk dihubungkan, karena menurut saya data sangat penting dalam bisnis ini. Saya pikir viralitas jaringan yang terjadi dengan menghubungkan ke salah satu platform ysng memiliki distribusi besar ini sangat penting, tetapi saya pikir itu kurang penting dalam hal investasi. Mungkin Anda bisa membantahnya untuk investasi reksa dana, tetapi lebih sedikit untuk perdagangan saham. Faktanya, saya tidak dapat menyebutkan satu pun platform e-commerce atau platform ride hailing atau platform jejaring sosial di mana pun di dunia yang telah berhasil meluncurkan perdagangan saham di platform mereka sendiri. Dan saya pikir itu karena pedagang saham memiliki perilaku yang sangat unik yang sangat berbeda dari pengguna layanan keuangan lainnya. Pedagang saham ingin segera melihat saham mereka. Mereka menghargai kecepatan. Mereka menghargai akurasi. Mereka menghargai keamanan. Jadi tidak ada yang mau menggunakan aplikasi super dan bertemu di halaman pertama dengan 10 opsi berbeda dari layanan keuangan yang dapat Anda pilih, dan kemudian harus mengklik tiga tombol lagi sebelum mereka dapat melihat harga saham dan membeli. Itu. Yang kami tahu adalah bahwa pengguna kami menginginkan efisiensi. Mereka ingin mendapatkan klik paling sedikit, harga tercepat dan paling akurat yang bisa mereka dapatkan karena setiap detik penting dalam hal perdagangan saham. Jadi sekali lagi, saya pikir ini sangat penting bagi perusahaan pembayaran, untuk perusahaan pemberi pinjaman, seperti yang telah kita lihat tidak hanya di China. Kami telah melihatnya di India. Kami juga telah melihat di AS, tetapi menurut kami perdagangan saham sangat berbeda. Kami pikir itulah sebabnya Zerodha berdiri sendiri di India. Itulah mengapa XP ada di Brasil. Itulah mengapa Robinhood ada di AS. Ini mirip dengan bagaimana di China, Tiger Brokers dan Futu Securities juga ada di platform mereka sendiri.

ALAN 20:21
Sekarang, pertumbuhan layanan Ant Financial dan Tencent FinTech dimulai dari kemampuan pembayaran. Seberapa penting pembayaran sebagai onramp bagi layanan keuangan lain di Indonesia?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 20:34
Menurut saya, penting untuk memiliki penggunaan pertama yang sangat kuat. Saya tidak berpikir bahwa itu perlu pembayaran. Jika Anda melihat ke seluruh dunia sebagai contoh, di India Policybazaar dimulai dengan manajemen klaim produk asuransi. Di AS, Robinhood memulai dengan perdagangan saham. Kami melihatnya di Brasil: XP dimulai dengan nasihat keuangan. Jadi jelas bagi saya bahwa di mana pun Anda memulai sebagai perusahaan FinTech, kami perlu membuktikan diri kepada pelanggan bahwa produk awal yang kami luncurkan memberikan nilai tambah yang luar biasa, 10X lebih baik, daripada alternatif bagi pengguna kami. Berangkat dari sana, kami bisa tumbuh dengan kuat dan kita bisa memperluas ke produk dan layanan tambahan lainnya. Saya pikir pembayaran adalah salah satu cara untuk mengarahkan orang ke layanan keuangan. Tapi menurut saya, perdagangan saham juga sangat mengasyikkan. Dan kami sangat menantikan untuk membuktikannya.

ALAN 21:32
Apa yang Anda pandang sebagai hambatan terbesar bagi pertumbuhan Ajaib?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 21:36
Bagi saya, hal tersebut adalah edukasi. Sekali lagi, saya tidak bisa mengerti mengapa hanya setengah persen negara yang berinvestasi di saham. Tidak masuk akal, apalagi Bursa Efek Indonesia dalam 10 tahun terakhir menduduki peringkat kedua dunia dalam hal return. Yang pertama adalah NASDAQ. Jadi jelas bahwa ini adalah ekonomi yang tumbuh dengan sangat cepat. Dan itu tercermin dalam tingkat pengembalian yang tinggi di pasar saham. Dan ingatlah bahwa ini adalah pasar saham yang sangat besar. Ini bukan pasar saham kecil. Itu setengah triliun dolar di pasar. Ini lebih besar dari Singapura. Namun kita hanya memiliki setengah persen yang berinvestasi di negara ini. Jadi saya pikir masalahnya menyangkut Pendidikan; menyangkut memberi pengetahuan kepada orang-orang mengenai pentingnya tetap berinvestasi dan pentingnya keuangan pribadi, bagaimana Anda harus memikirkan inflasi dan potensi penghasilan Anda. Dan sejujurnya, menurut saya ada banyak pemain FinTech di luar sana yang tidak benar-benar mendidik pasar dengan cara yang benar. Mereka mendidik pasar berdasarkan return, yang sebenarnya tidak akan memicu banyak kepercayaan di kemudian hari. Dan itulah mengapa di Ajaib kami telah melipatgandakan tiga kali lipat dalam menyediakan konten investasi hanya untuk mengedukasi pasar terlepas dari apakah mereka ingin berinvestasi pada kami atau tidak. Kami memberi mereka konten pendidikan yang mudah sehingga mereka bisa belajar dan membuat keputusan sendiri karena kami yakin produk kami jauh lebih baik daripada alternatifnya.

ALAN 23:06
Lini bisnis apa lagi yang menarik bagi Anda?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 23:09
Ini sangat lucu. Ketika saya belum memulai Ajaib, saya tidak memiliki banyak ide. Tetapi ketika saya mengembangkan Ajaib, semakin banyak ide yang muncul. Semakin banyak lini bisnis terlihat menarik. Tetapi sekarang saya memiliki semakin sedikit waktu untuk mengeksplorasi semua itu. Nah, khusus untuk Ajaib, kami tidak berhenti sampai di sini. Kami memiliki visi untuk membawa investor generasi baru ke layanan keuangan modern. Kami mulai dengan investasi dulu, karena menurut kami itulah segmen jasa keuangan yang paling kurang ditembus di Indonesia saat ini. Kami pikir menarik juga untuk melihat obligasi dan melihat area lain dari keuangan pribadi, seperti asuransi dan rencana pensiun. Jadi langit adalah batasnya bagi kami, tetapi kami tetap fokus sekarang pada investasi. Kami masih fokus pada perdagangan saham. Kami masih fokus pada reksa dana. Saya pikir masih banyak pekerjaan rumah yang harus dilakukan. Dan menurut saya, kami dapat memberikan kontribusi yang berarti untuk pendalaman keuangan dengan meningkatkan penetrasi investasi orang Indonesia di pasar saham dalam beberapa tahun ke depan.

ALAN 24:15
Diskusi yang sangat menarik, Anderson, dan saya sangat menantikan untuk melihat pertumbuhan industri FinTech konsumen Indonesia melalui kesuksesan Ajaib. Hal tersebut mengakhiri episode Indo Tekno ke-13 kami. Terima kasih banyak telah bergabung dengan kami hari ini, Anderson.

ANDERSON SUMARLI 24:30
Terima kasih sudah menerima saya.

ALAN 24:31
Podcast diterjemahkan dari Bahasa Inggris ke Bahasa Indonesia oleh Alpha JWC Ventures. Terima kasih telah mendengarkan. Sampai jumpa lagi!


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ENGLISH VERSION

ALAN 0:11
Welcome everyone to Episode 13 of Indo Tekno. Selamat datang, semuanya. Thank you all for tuning in again. We fast tracked our invitation to today's guest the second we heard of the planned public filing in China of Alibaba fintech affiliate Ant Financial last week. The world's highest valued fintech company, Ant Financial is also likely to execute the world's largest IPO in a planned dual listing in Shanghai and Hong Kong, with a target valuation of $225 billion later this year. Having surveyed the online personal finance landscape in Indonesia, we are extremely pleased to have join us today Anderson Sumarli, CEO and Cofounder of Ajaib. Ajaib is often described as the "Robin Hood" of Indonesia, as Ajaib, like its Western cousin Robin Hood, also offers stock and mutual fund services that can be accessed online. Ajaib most importantly in our minds makes affordable these services to all tiers of the income pyramid in Indonesia. Anderson, thanks again for joining.

ANDERSON SUMARLI 1:16
Thank you for having me.

ALAN 1:17
Anderson, please share with us your background and also the origin story of Ajaib.

ANDERSON SUMARLI 1:22
I'm Cofounder and CEO of Ajaib. Prior to this, my background has always been in either financial services or technology. I actually started my career at IBM working in their chief analytics office in the New York headquarters. And that's where I started falling in love with data and analytics, helping them expand across Asia and Europe. And after a couple years doing that, I went back to Indonesia and I joined the Boston Consulting Group. They were at a pretty interesting period of time, just about to launch their Financial Services and Technology Advantage practice. I had a lot of fun there, advising a lot of big banks and big multi-finance companies on how to make the leap to digital. From there I started realizing that there are some gaps in the FinTech scene. There's a bunch of digital banks and companies in digital payments, digital lending; but virtually nobody's innovating in the investment space. And that's what really drove me to start Ajaib. I felt like there was a lack of innovation in the investment industry in Indonesia.

ALAN 2:20
Now, Indonesia hosts the largest capital markets in Southeast Asia. However, Anderson you recently estimated that the country has one of the world's lowest investment penetration rates at roughly 1%. How do you think about the long term opportunity in this regard?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 2:37
Yeah, it's actually pretty crazy to think about it. Indonesia is half a trillion dollars in market cap. A lot of people don't realize that Indonesia's stock market is larger than Singapore, despite people thinking Singapore being the central financial service hub of Southeast Asia. And what's more crazy is knowing that only half a percent of the country is investing in stocks. We don't need to go too far away. Just look at Thailand. They're way higher than us in terms of investment penetration. Looking at India, they're at two and a half percent. China is in double digits. And again, Indonesia is still at half a percent. Indonesia might just be one of the largest stock markets in the world with the lowest investment penetration. And that's why I'm very optimistic about the opportunity in Indonesia. And I think that this will trend up. And I think that, if you think Indonesia is half a trillion dollar market cap is already big, it will surprise you in the next few years.

ALAN 3:36
Can you outline briefly the value proposition that Ajaib is currently presenting to Indonesian target customers?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 3:42
So here at Ajaib, our mission is to onboard a new generation of investors to modern financial services. So with that, we offer a few things. First of all, we're "technology-first." In fact, we are the first stock broker that is branchless, fully online and "mobile-first." That allows us to do a couple of things. A) it allows us to offer the cheapest fees in Indonesia. In fact, with our mutual fund business, we offer zero commissions. And with stocks, we offer the lowest fees in the market. And we get to do this because we've automated all the processes, and approach our customers in an efficient, safe online manner. And B) it also allows us to educate customers. We have a repository of the largest investment content in the Indonesian language. And we're able to reach customers through our website, through social media, through our app, all fully online especially during this COVID period. So our value proposition really is driven by technology in making financial services more affordable, and also making education more accessible.

ALAN 4:49
If I'm not mistaken, Anderson, subsequent to launching your first online mutual fund offering in January 2019, Ajaib has enabled more than 200,000 new retail investors across Indonesia. This was roughly 25% of all new retail investors in Indonesia last year. How do you think about 2020 and 2021?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 5:09
Yes. How crazy is that, knowing that in our first year of launching, we contributed one of every four new retail investors in the whole country? I think that such a thing would be difficult to achieve in other markets that are already developed. And so it just tells us that this market is just begging for innovation. People want to invest, but they don't know how to or they cannot afford to invest. And our vision for 2020 and 2021 is even more ambitious. Though, we want to focus more on financial deepening. We want to make sure that these 200,000 and growing investors that we have on our platform, understand what they invest in, understand what's the difference between a mutual fund and a stockbroker, and understands the decisions that they take that will impact their future financial freedom. And that's why we're investing heavily into education. We're doubling down into our technology platforms to make education more accessible, and also to make investing much cheaper and accessible to everybody from all walks of life.

ALAN 6:19
Anderson, who's our competition?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 6:22
Our main competition is a lack of financial literacy. To tell you the truth in Ajaib, more than 90% of our investors are first time investors. They've never invested in anything before until they met us. And so our job when they come on our platform is not to convince them to invest in us, and not invest in A, B or C. Our job is to convince them that they should be investing, that this is good for their future, that this will uplift their financial standing. And so every single day our team is focused and thinking about: "how do we reach out to all these young millennials with our message to tell them that they need to be invested so that they can beat the inflation rate in Indonesia, so that they can have a brighter future."

ALAN 7:09
Anderson Can you share with us the vision behind Ajaib acquiring securities broker PT Primasia Sekuritas earlier this year? How do we think about integrating services, personnel and other parts of the business?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 7:20
Yes, this is the largest challenge that I've ever faced in my career. But it's very fun. What we realized early on is that financial services is all about trust. And so regulatory standing is very important. So instead of partnering with another broker, we decided to acquire a broker and become that broker ourselves. And with that, we treat the acquisition process in the best way we know, especially since we closed the acquisition during the COVID period. So we have retained all of the employees that we acquired. We have started integrating them into our culture, and we've done knowledge sharing between them, because this company that we acquired has been around for 30 to 40 years. And so they understand what it takes to run a stock broker. They understand the operational importance behind it. They understand the standard operating procedures that are compliant. And so we're constantly learning from each other. And the vision is that we can take the knowledge - institutional knowledge - that they have about how to run a stock broker, and we can inject it with a modern age technology. And that's why today we are the only brokerage in Indonesia that is fully online without any branches whatsoever.

ALAN 8:36
Anderson, what's the regulatory context surrounding Ajaib?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 8:40
Regulation here is very complex. Let me start it off with that. We have all kinds of licenses. To start off with, we have a full broker-dealer license. We also need to have a mutual fund brokerage license, and many other licenses, to go online to launch our product. And so we're very good friends with the Indonesian financial authorities. We're very good friends with the Indonesia Stock Exchange. We see this relationship as a partnership. It's a partnership of trust and also to bring education to the masses: our target market, which are first time investor millennials.

ALAN 9:17
Ant Financial's "Yuebao" is China's largest money market fund with US$170 billion in assets. What is market share breakdown amongst money market funds in Indonesia? And where do you see that trending longer term?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 9:31
I really look up to Yuebao. In fact, I believe that they're today the largest money market fund in the world. Indonesia's money market scene is very interesting. Believe it or not, the returns range between 5-7%. That is insane. The Sharpe Ratio is way-off the charts. In fact, I put most of my salary into money market funds immediately after I get it. That's how good it is in Indonesia. Yet it's still in its nascent stage. Much of the money market funds today in Indonesia is still held by institutional money. And so the retail market has yet to understand the power of money market funds. In fact, if you look at the inflation rate in Indonesia today, it stands about 3% to 3.5%. Whereas the returns that you would get from your bank savings account is less than half a percent in a year. A lot of people don't understand that by putting their money in the bank, they're already losing money immediately. And an alternative like money market funds, which return 5% to 7% is one that is very attractive. That is something that has happened in China, where all the young millennials have started to realize that and shift their funds from banks to money market funds. It has yet to happen in Indonesia, and we want to lead it through our educational resources.

ALAN 10:56
Anderson what have been the most pronounced effects of COVID on Indonesia's personal financial markets?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 11:02
Oh boy, this is a huge question. If we look at anywhere else in the world, COVID has essentially increased the penetration of retail investors in each stock market. No matter if you see it in the US, in Brazil, in India, in China; the story is all the same. And that is happening right now in Indonesia. And we're very excited to see that. I've two theories behind it. The first one: I think that COVID has unfortunately impacted a lot of people at work. So a lot of them have lost their jobs or have reduced hours. And so they're longing for an alternative source of income that they can make money on. It just happens to be investing in our platforms, which are fully online, fully mobile, including the whole onboarding KYC process, is one that is much more accessible to people to add to their daily income. The second part of this is that, because of COVID, Indonesia has been in work-from-home lock down for the last six months. And so we see a huge spike in our user base; their usage during working hours. Previous to this, we only saw them in the morning, saw them a bit after lunch, perhaps after they take a lunch break at work. But now we see them consistently active on our platform throughout the day. So it seems like they're remotely working but at the same time enjoying our products throughout the day.

ALAN 12:26
Now most of us are well aware of Indonesia's millennials being much more mobile-first than their predecessors, and being true digital natives. How do they figure into our business?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 12:36
Well, Ajaib is a mobile-first company. When we thought of this concept, we knew immediately that mobile is the key; the reason being that mobile is a platform that is highly underutilized by existing incumbents. For example, there are only three Indonesian brokers that have more than 100,000 downloads on their online stock apps...and that is downloads, not even investors. So we knew the power of mobile, having seen how Robinhood developed in the US as its first mobile-first online broker, seeing how Zerodha developed in India and anywhere else in the world as well. And I think that COVID has really accelerated the adoption of mobile amongst millennials for financial service activities for the very simple reason that millennials, they don't want to go and meet another person in this era. They don't want to go and meet a teller at a bank to open up an account. They don't want to go and handle 20 pages of documentation to open up a brokerage account. They want things quick, they want things efficient, they want things that they can do right at home, and they want things to do that are safe. And right now everybody is work-from-home. Everybody's in a lockdown situation. And so that's just going to accelerate the adoption of mobile amongst millennials for financial services.

ALAN 13:58
Anderson, can you share with us any interesting behaviors or trends that you've seen in your customer base since launching your funds and stock trading online? Does, for instance, a certain demographic "churn-and-burn" more than others, etc?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 14:11
Well, it's very interesting because we've done a great job in attracting a very specific segment of the market, which is practically making up more than 90% of our user base. It's these millennial first time investors. And we're very proud of attracting them. We've somehow created a product that speaks very deeply to them. They have a very unique customer behavior. They are loud. They tell a lot of their friends. They're excited about things. One would anticipate that someone who's never invested before would be less vocal about their first time investing experience. But here we get randomly added to WhatsApp groups every single day, because our users create the small Whatsapp group with all their colleagues at work. When we think about it, it makes a lot of sense. With only half a percent of the country investing, whenever someone becomes a stock investor, they're more likely than not to be the "expert" amongst their community immediately, because they're the only ones that have invested in stocks. And so we see that launching stock trading on an online platform, in a mobile platform, just really encourages that generation to share us on social media, share us on WhatsApp, share us on their Instagram stories and so forth. And that's really something that's been surprising to us.

ALAN 15:33
Now, part of the value proposition, or that of a Robinhood in the West as you referenced earlier, is disrupting traditional brokers by being the first branchless, fully online stock broker. How quickly do you expect disintermediation to occur?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 15:47
Well, for us, Ajaib was born as a branchless fully online stock broker to start off with, and so we're immediately disintermediating those processes. But let me speak for my other peers in the market. If we look at the biggest brokers in Indonesia today, their strength is in distribution, in particular, physical distribution. The largest brokers in Indonesia today have the largest network of physical branches and salespeople. And they did it because, back when they were developing that distribution channel, regulation stated that you needed to do face-to-face KYC (Know Your Customer) or account onboarding. Remember, earlier when I was talking about those 20 pages of documentation that people need to do, and now the age has changed. And it's very difficult for the incumbents to adapt to that change because the distribution network of physical branches and salespeople apparently has been very effective in attracting a specific segment of the market, which are high net worth individuals. High net worth individuals still want this physical touch, still want to be able to interact with a specific salesperson. And so it's very difficult for them to stop all that, because stopping all that would mean letting go of their high net worth clients that are contributing a lot of their volume. And so the way I see it is that, it's a fork in the road, in which the incumbents have committed to this segment of the market. And we as Ajaib have committed to the opposite segment of the market, which are first time investor millennials. And so I think that these two strategies can coexist with each other. I don't think everybody would go full branchless, full online like we do. I think most people will still remain with physical branches and salespeople, and that's okay, because our mission again, is to onboard a new generation of investors. And so we're more concerned about pulling in first-time investors into our platform.

ALAN 17:41
Looking north to China, as we often do here at Indo Tekno, China's two largest FinTech businesses, Ant Financial on one hand; and WeChatPay WeSure and Licaitong on the other; are connected to the country's two largest internet and e-commerce platforms. Alibaba and Tencent have China's largest captive user bases online: one in e commerce and the other in social networking. How important will it be for Indonesia's FinTech platforms to similarly be connected to captive businesses, such as SeaMoney with Shopee or Ovo with Grab and Tokopedia? And how does Ajaib view its position?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 18:17
That's a really good question. It really depends on which area of FinTech you're in. I believe that you do need to connect to these platforms. If you are a payments company, or you're a peer-to-peer lending company, or just a credit lending company. I think these are important to connect to, because I think data is really important in these businesses. I think that the virality of networks that happens with connecting to one of these large platforms with huge distribution is really important, but I think it's less important when it comes to investments. Maybe you can argue that for mutual fund investments, but much less for stock trading. In fact, I cannot name a single e-commerce platform or ride hailing platform or a social networking platform anywhere in the world that has done a successful job in launching stock trading on their own platforms. And I think it's because stock traders have a very unique behavior that's very different than users of any other financial services. Stock traders want to look at their stocks immediately. They value speed. They value accuracy. They value safety. And so nobody wants to go on a super app and be met on the first page with 10 different options of financial services that you can choose from, and then have to click three more buttons before they can see the price of their stock and to purchase it. What we know is that our users want efficiency. They want to have the least clicks, the fastest and most accurate pricing that they can get because every second counts when it comes to stock trading. So again, I think that it's really important for payment companies, for lending companies, as we've seen in not just China. We've seen that in India. We've seen also in the US, but we think stock trading is very different. We think that's why Zerodha exists on its own in India. That's why XP exists in Brazil. That's why Robinhood exists as-is in the US. It's similar to how in China, Tiger Brokers and Futu Securities also exists on their own platform.

ALAN 20:21
Now, the growth of Ant Financial and Tencent FinTech services began around a nucleus of payments capabilities. How important is payments as an onramp to other financial services in Indonesia?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 20:34
Well, I think that it is important to have a very strong first use case. I don't think that it needs to be payments. If you look around the world for examples, in India Policybazaar started with claims management of insurance products. In the US, Robinhood started with stock trading. We see it in Brazil: XP started with financial advice. And so it's apparent to me that no matter where you start as a FinTech company, we need to prove ourselves to our customers that the initial product we launch with is adding immense value, 10X better, than the alternative to our users. And going from there, then we can grow with strength and we can expand to other ancillary products and services. I think that payments is one of the ways to onboard people into financial services. But I think that stock trading is one that is very exciting as well. And we're looking forward to proving that out.

ALAN 21:32
What do you view as the biggest bottlenecks to Ajaib's growth?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 21:36
To me, it's about education. Again, I just cannot understand why there's only half a percent of the country investing in stocks. It makes no sense, especially knowing that the Indonesian Stock Exchange in the last 10 years is ranked second in the world in terms of returns. The first one is the NASDAQ. And so it's obvious that it's an economy that's growing so quickly. And that's reflected in these high returns in the stock market. And mind you that this is a huge stock market. It's not a small stock market. It's half a trillion dollars in the market. It's bigger than Singapore. Yet we only have half a percent of the country investing. And so I think that it comes to education. It comes to telling people the importance of keeping invested and the importance of personal finance, how you should think about inflation and your earnings potential. And truthfully, I think that there are a lot of FinTech players out there that are not really educating the market in the right way. They're educating the market based on returns, which is not really going to incite a lot of trust down the line. And that's why in Ajaib we have tripled down on providing investment content just to educate the market regardless of if they want to invest in us or not. We give them easy educational content so they can just learn and make a decision for themselves because we're confident that our product is much better than the alternative.

ALAN 23:06
What other lines of business look attractive to you?

ANDERSON SUMARLI 23:09
It's very funny. When I had not started Ajaib, I didn't have that many ideas. But as I developed Ajaib, more and more ideas came up. More and more business lines look attractive. But now I have less and less time to explore all those. Well, for Ajaib specifically, we're not stopping here. We have a vision to onboard a new generation of investors to modern financial services. We're starting with investments first, because we think that's the most underpenetrated segment of financial services in Indonesia today. We think that it's interesting to look into bonds as well. I think it's interesting to also look into other areas of personal finance, such as insurance and retirement plans. And so the sky is the limit for us, but we keep focused right now on investments. We're still focused on stock trading. We're still focused on mutual funds. I think there's still a lot of homework to do. And I think that we can meaningfully contribute to financial deepening by increasing the penetration of Indonesians investing in the stock market in the next few years.

ALAN 24:15
Super-fascinating discussion, Anderson, and I'm very much looking forward to tracking the growth of Indonesia's consumer FinTech scene through the success of Ajaib. This concludes our 13th instalment of Indo Tekno. Thanks so much for joining us today, Anderson.

ANDERSON SUMARLI 24:30
Thank you for having me.

ALAN 24:31
The podcast was translated from English to Bahasa Indonesia by Alpha JWC Ventures. Terima kasih untuk mendengarkan. Sampai jumpa lagi!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai