Episode 22: Entertainment Executive, Terez Mychelle

Terez Mychelle is a thespian, entertainment executive and an accomplished administrator with more than thirty-five (35) years of experience working with Non-Profit Organizations, privately and publicly funded organizations, and LGBTQIA+ Global Foundations.

Currently, Terez serves as Executive Director for Global Collective, a Global hybrid luxury branding, marketing, management, and talent agency. As a trained thespian, and entertainment executive Terez has produced shows in community theatre, off Broadway, concerts, and managed tours.

Terez is a GLAAD Media Award winner, New York City Supportive Housing Trailblazer Award, Unity Fellowship Church L.I.F.E Award and Black Pride Trailblazer Award recipient respectively. She is a Brand Ambassador for the International LGBT Arts and Culture Music Festival.

Terez is the owner/operator of True Lounge in Newark New Jersey and excited to join forces with the New Jersey Pride Chamber of Commerce. She resides in New Jersey with her wife, Monifa Carter and their fur baby, Brave.

Transcript

[00:00:00] WANDA: Welcome to Sundays at Café Tabac, the podcast. This podcast series is an extension of our film's mission to firm and extol the courage, strength and joy in our LGBTQ plus community through the perservation and sharing of our personal stories and the collective histories we live through and change. I'm your host, Wanda Acosta.

I'm so happy to have an old friend that I haven't seen in quite a while. Beautiful, talented, Terez Michelle. She's an LGBTQI plus activist, a radio host, a GLAAD award winner for media excellence. She's an entrepreneur, and she's happily married to the R& B singer, Monifah. Welcome to the studio, Terez

[00:00:51] TEREZ: thank you. Thank you for having me, Wanda. Long time. How are you? How have you been? I've been well overall outside of, you know, the recent, uh, metamorphosis, I'll say, but I've been very well blessed. Thank you. 

[00:01:04] WANDA: It's great to see you. It's been a long time. It's been since the beautiful Renaissance of 90s. One of the tapestry in that.

[00:01:13] TEREZ: So yeah, like man, you made it, you, you were the, like the soundtrack of, uh, you guys were the soundtracks of my teens in the early twenties, thirties and that mix. Yeah. Oh, am I dating myself?

[00:01:26] WANDA: We are dating ourselves. So I guess initially I met you at a party that. Shari Nash and I did called Sundays at Café Tabac, no? Or did we meet elsewhere? 

[00:01:39] TEREZ: I think we met before you guys started doing the parties and then you lounged into the parties and which were like, I don't even know if they have a word in the dictionary, but they were like, so epic of their time. So, so before their time, actually, and you guys in such a short time made such an impact, you know, between Cafe Tabac and Bardot, you know, they were just, just living rooms for like multicultural women and people like really, really knew about these parties and would like wait.

It wasn't prevalent for women to have their own venues in New York. And I just can't imagine if you guys were to have had your own permanent venue. Fixed venue, what that could have been like then because that was such a fun time for me. So don't let me take this answer or question away. 

[00:02:28] WANDA: Oh, please go for it.

[00:02:29] TEREZ: back and, and Bardo were like both essentially different, but the energy was the same. You know, I remember those Monday nights and then, um, I forget the night that Tabac was on, but 

[00:02:40] WANDA: Tabac was on Sundays, so we were back, you know, Tabac was back to back with Bard'o. Tabac was on Sunday, Bard'o was on Monday. But tell me, what was, for you and for your friends, what was so special about those early 90s LGBTQ scenes and just, you know, spaces for women? 

[00:03:03] TEREZ: I think it's important for me to reflect back for a second because I'm a theater baby. So I would come out of work and go look to express some stress. So at the time earlier than your parties was the, you know, the paradise garage and stuff like that, where we would really sweat off steam, but no, no venue that catered to women. So we always had kind of, you know, men had theirs always, you know, they would support, you know, but. None that were, um, and if you did have women that were doing parties, they didn't have their venues, and it was very spot, like maybe once a month kind of vibe, you know, nothing on an ongoing where you could just kind of like go. So that was like the missing plug at the time when you guys came around, and I love multicultural events, you know, so at the time, New York was bustling, you know, it was a live really bustling lesbian scene and we were all underground. We'd get together at house parties and things like that, but, you know, not necessarily being out. So, you guys came around and introduced the idea. And, you know, and it's interesting because the music, right? And I want to give a shout out to Shari because Shari had such an eclectic mind for music. which is where we kind of met, you know, when she started with the music, it was like a jambalaya, you know, you didn't just get one thing. So you can't say that you're going down there to dance, but you're actually going down to lounge, to socialize, to meet and greet, right? So if you heard your favorite tune, hey, you can get up and shuffle a little bit. But that wasn't really the culture of it. They learned, I can't, in my opinion, you know, and correct me if I'm wrong, I can't label them dance parties, but they had something else that was unique. You know, it was, safe space where women gathered to meet, greet, you know, hang out and just love on each other. It just grew from that, you know? 

[00:04:49] WANDA: You're absolutely right. I think that Shari's choice of music was something that was quite unique at the time where. You were not hearing DJs play the variety of music that she was playing within the space where it could go from, you know, some old jazz to a Chanteuse from Paris to a house track to some Neil Soul to something brand new that just, she just got from like, you know, Europe or something. I mean, it was really, it was wonderful and it all worked. Wonderful mix of music and people would come to sometimes just hear what she was going to play, 

[00:05:29] TEREZ: you know. Zero Fs about the BPM. It was about the vibe, you know, and that's what she, she curated, in my opinion, and it was wonderful. It was wonderful to hear some of the songs in the crates and, and wonderful to invite and, and to see all friends.

And then like one thing I like particularly about Bard'O is that it was a smaller space. So it was very intimate. So you generally either knew the women that were in there or you got to know them really quickly, you know, particularly the regulars, you know, I'd like to think I was part of the regular crew.

[00:05:57] WANDA: There were so many regulars. And that was the beauty of both those events because there was a handful of regulars that would be there week after week. So even if you decided that you were not going to come with friends, you knew you can walk in there and run into folks that you were comfortable with because there were a bunch of regulars. as well as new people all the time. 

So when you're saying that before the events were happening, that there was a like kind of your own sort of basement vibe where everyone would come to the house and hang out and I guess be underground, first of all, when did you come out? When did you have a realization about your sexuality and what was that like, A, for you, and then also for you growing up in your family and in your cultural acceptance of queerness?

[00:06:42] TEREZ: It's actually very tricky for me because I never thought I was in. Then I realized that when I came out. answered my mother's question, you know, and then I was like, oh, there's something wrong here for you. But I, you know, I was kind of like very, um, always very spirited, but I wasn't in relationships, you know, the theater was my first love.

So I was always, you know, on the road and doing kind of stuff with that. 

[00:07:04] WANDA: Were you acting? 

[00:07:05] TEREZ: No, I was, um, at that time I was, uh, stage management and doing production, you know? 

[00:07:09] WANDA: Oh, nice. 

[00:07:10] TEREZ: And I just remembered, you know, before I actually settled and said, okay. It wasn't until later on where I actually worked in New York doing something other than theater, you know, and that was for a family, uh, kind of crisis that went on that required me to be here, but most of the time I was on the road.

So in doing that, you know, I came, I remember coming home one day and, um, coming to visit my mother and I had like maybe six or seven cars in tow, but they were nothing but women. We were on our way to. So my mom, yeah, stopped by my mother's house in Long Island, and she was on the way there. So you know, we wanted to do a pit stop.

I was living in, I think, Brooklyn at the time. So you know, she, it's bright, sunny day, and she's like, Hey, are all those people with you? I said, Yeah. The cars are like lined up. It was hot, you know, and you know, they got out and they were waiting, you know, we were They're affectionate and you know, just waiting.

It's funny because one of my neighbors that lived on the block, he's like, you blew up the block that day. And I was like, you know, all those hot ladies, all those women, they were like kissing it. And I was like, Oh, did I blow up the block? Like, you know, that was the first time she asked me the question.

And I think I was actually, by the time she actually asked me the question, I think I may have been 19, 20 years old.

[00:08:21] WANDA: What did she say? Do you remember what she asked? 

[00:08:23] TEREZ: She was like, she's peeking out the window. It was Saturday, so that's the day she did her cleaning. So she, you know, was being nosy. She had a little rag in her hand and she's doing the window sills and she's looking out.

And I see it. I'm telling her to come upstairs, come to the restroom and, you know, do it one by one. Uh huh. Peeking out and she goes, all those women are with you? I was like, yeah. So I said, okay, tell the next one to come up, you know. And she's going, where are you guys going? I said, to Cherry Grove. She said, Cherry Grove?

I don't think I've heard of that. I said, yeah, it's near Robert Moses and she's still scrubbing, you know, and she's looking and she's like, some of them are kissing. I was like, they might be. I'm like, they might be, I'm inside with you. She said, did you know that? I said, I'm in here with you. I'm not outside.

You know? Uh huh. Uh huh. For me, it was no big deal. Right. And then she said, well, are they gay? And I said, well, yeah, I guess that's the overall word, but yeah. So she goes, Oh, are, are you gay? And I go, yeah. And she goes, you are? I was like, yes. You're gay? I remember asking that question about five times. And then she just went from asking the question to having a complete meltdown.

Yeah. So I was just kind of like, okay. And at that time I said I had a choice. I have a choice between wanting to manage whatever it is, you know, and my mother, mind you, had, uh, Gay friend growing up. I remember my uncle Lou, who wore the bracelets and the, and the caftans and, you know, he was always accepted in our home and, you know, kind of like, you know, so I didn't know that would ever be an issue, you know, when I came to terms, you know, personally, just kind of like, Oh, I like her.

She's beautiful. And it never was an issue for you because you just thought. This is who I am. My family's gonna be fine. Yeah. Yeah, that was it. You know, I didn't have a technical girlfriend until like maybe 19 somewhere in there, you know, and I was fine, you know, she however had a complete meltdown. So I had a choice I said, okay Do I try to talk her up off the floor and my friends are in and out or do I just you know?

Close her room door. Tell her I love her and go on to Cherry Grove. Mm hmm And when I attempted to talk her off the floor, she got a little Hostile in the mouth, and I said, okay, so I'm going to, I'm going to leave you to your home. I'm going to respect, you know, what you need to go through. But that's not my journey, and I don't want that to be my journey.

My journey is not violent, for me. So, um, when the last one finished, we got in the cars, and we went on to Cherry Grove and had a great time. And that was it. And I followed up with her later. And then how was that follow up? 

[00:10:58] WANDA: Did she kind of, like, come to terms? And did she ever say, Oh, you know, I knew, but I didn't want to know, kind of thing?

[00:11:04] TEREZ: No, my mother My mother is an interesting, no, she didn't. The follow up took almost a year, I'll say, because she didn't want to come to the phone. But, you know, so I called, so I called and checked on her, you know, through my siblings, but she didn't actually come around. But again, you know, um, I was very clear.

At that time about what I was going to accept about myself, you know, and I did not, it wasn't a horror story for me. That wasn't the life I was living. I had a lot of lovely friends, loving friends, lovely experiences. I was living my life in an open, uh, and this could not, you know, change or haunt any of that.

And I'm so grateful. And I don't know where that came from. I really don't. I don't know where it came from.

[00:11:52] WANDA: Yeah, because so many people like have a hard time accepting their own queerness, but I guess they're afraid of being rejected by their families or their peers or their colleagues or their friends, you know.

[00:12:04] TEREZ: You know, it's funny when I, when I was in school, I went to NYU. When I was in school, I became familiar with houses. And there was a time around when Jeannie Livingston was doing Paris is Burning. Yes. And we hung out in Washington. 

[00:12:17] WANDA: Houses meaning the ballroom houses for those that may not understand what that is.

[00:12:22] TEREZ: Yes, the whole ballroom culture, you know, and I was young, young. It must have been about maybe, I don't know, young, young. I was clear that you can choose a family as well, you know. And that became very reflective in my life today, you know, but that followed me. It stuck with me because if anybody makes the choice, and this is again in my adult head now, right?

But, you know, what I explained to either kids that I, uh, counsel in a sense that do have problems with the coming out stories are struggling through their sexuality and telling their families. What I tell them is that, you know, family in the traditional sense, meaning the word that we were taught it was can be so much different, you know, um, and say you have a brother or a sister that's, you know, not necessarily accepting of you, you know, like who puts somebody, can you realize how bananas it is that somebody would sit and want to wrangle you to be accepted by them for your life? That's weird to me. It always has been, you know, it's like, who puts you in charge of the acceptance committee? Yeah, exactly. It's like, you know, but at the same time, you don't want to go through that emotional turmoil with someone that you love that doesn't want to accept you because of who you are.

And I've always defined my sexuality as who I am, not what I do. You know, would I be gay if I chose to be abstinent? Absolutely. It's not what I do, it's who I am. So, you're ultimately rejecting me. Why? Because you don't like it? 

[00:13:51] WANDA: Right, because it makes you uncomfortable. 

[00:13:53] TEREZ: Right. Yeah. You know, and then when you drill down and they don't really have a reason, it's just that it doesn't fit there or whatever until they have grown a bit, learn more or experience more. It's a whole lot of things, you know, maybe some religious, you know, beliefs which you don't tackle, you know, you just respect. 

[00:14:09] WANDA: Now I don't know if this is fair to say, but do you feel that historically in the African American culture that gayness, queerness is something that, you know, you don't talk about that you have to keep on the DL that. That is uncomfortable for whatever reasons. 

[00:14:29] TEREZ: It can be for a lot of reasons, you know, I'm native and African American. Um, my mom is African American and my dad is Sec Fox Indian. So both cultures, quite frankly, but I'll speak to the African American side, which is how I grew up. And I will say that most of any of the drama that I've seen has come from religion.

Mm hmm. Other than that, you know, we can't deny that they exist all over. We can't deny that we exist in the family. You know, we can't, they can't deny a whole lot of things, you know. But when it comes down to church and being treated well mentally in situations, and um, the Bible, you know, I mean, that's a whole, You know, I've had many podcasts with ministers, including my minister that married us, actually.

[00:15:21] WANDA: Oh, interesting. 

[00:15:21] TEREZ: Uh huh. Yeah, she's actually a bishop, actually, that married us. And she had her own journey in the church, which is the reason why we chose her, because she understood some things that, you know, we subscribed to, you know. And even my pastor now, Kevin E. Taylor, he's amazing, and in the family, you know. And they just don't practice the word of God. Yeah. They just don't do it, you know. And it's, religion has been used, if we want to tell the whole truth, religion has been used as a tool of fear, you know, I'm going to do this or that, you know, and control, you know, and that's something that I had to work out. And again, like, I think early on my spirit had been hit with situations that, um, forced me to really pay attention to certain things. Like case in point, when I was in high school, I remember we had a pastor that worked there and he invited us all to the church for Easter. So my friends were like, Oh, okay. You know. I won't say his name because I think he's still alive, but he said, okay, well, you know, we went to the church and we all got dressed up and, you know, cause that's what we're taught to do, you know? And soon as we're walking down together, it was crowded in the church. Everybody was there. It was like kind of the centralized church of the community and he started talking crap. Oh, these people da, da, da, da, da. And I'm like, and it took me like, we were, we were midway through the church walking through to find seats in the pews before we realized he was talking about us. Oh gosh. And I was, and I stood there, I was like. And then he said, yeah, you, and I said, oh, I said, y'all, let's go. And I may have given him a finger in his own church, actually. That's the rebel I was then, and I was just like, I'm not doing this. You know, when I got to school the next day, I was like, really? Like, I'm actually looking for him. I was like, that's what we do. You invite us somewhere so that you can do that? 

[00:17:03] WANDA: And then, yeah, to try to like bring us down or make, make fun or judge us. So you obviously have still a spiritual. practice or religious practice in your life. Uh, do you both do, do you and your spouse? 

[00:17:17] TEREZ: Yes. 

[00:17:18] WANDA: That's great. And do you go to church often? 

[00:17:20] TEREZ: We go to church when we can because we move around a lot. Yeah. Since COVID he's has church online and anytime we can actually see him face to face, we go and visit. He knows we're there. And if we need him, he absolutely makes sure that he's there. It's a different, like you can make it any kind of way you want to, you know, it doesn't have to be so structured, but he definitely does. He did. He used to do live actually still do online. 

[00:17:41] WANDA: Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah, so many places went online during COVID, you know, spiritual practicing places. My partner and I, we discovered the Unitarian Universalist Church in where we are now in St. Augustine, which is a non denominational church. congregation. So there are a lot of LGBTQ and others there, some ex hippies and things. I mean, it's really, it's very interesting. I actually really enjoy it. And we try to go when we can on Sundays or go online because they also do their service on Zoom. And it's been really nice. It's been really nice to sort of have something, and also a way to build community, you know.

[00:18:21] TEREZ: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I love that. If you can't make it, you know, we have a huge TV in the living room. We put it on the screen, and we just listen, and we'll, you know, we can still go about our day, but the Word is still there. Right. Exactly. And we're so active on social media. Whenever the Word drops in, it's not always on a Sunday. He'll have these little pickups like, uh, I had a thought before I'm getting out of the car and he'll just drop a word then, you know, or this is what the word said to me today and he'll just drop a word then. So he's always active in his practice. Right. 

[00:18:50] WANDA: And then he'll post that on social media. 

[00:18:52] TEREZ: Yes. 

[00:18:53] WANDA: Oh, that's good.

[00:18:54] TEREZ: Yeah. Yeah. He's going to be a Bishop this year. We're super proud of him. 

[00:18:57] WANDA: Oh, great. That's wonderful. So let me backtrack a little bit back to sort of that. 90s scene. Did you have any LGBTQ role models when you were growing up and when you were first coming out? 

[00:19:10] TEREZ: I did. I did. I had my first acting teacher, which, um, was in high school. He ran the arts department for the long Island, uh, district. And he, um, was my gay coach, you know, um, and he never said, Hey, I'm gay, but you knew, you know, and he was just somebody who was upright, very in his skin, he. ran the district at that time was mostly and I will say 85 percent children of color, you know, and we loved him. Everybody loved him. There was no way, you know, you could escape. He, he was just magical to me. And as I grew up, he gave me my first job in the business. cultivated me. Yeah, he set me up for amazing things. His baseball skill set, he did that with a lot. He would have a lot of Broadway talent come in and coach us. He was one of Susan Lucci's coaches. So we were all like,

[00:20:01] WANDA: Oh, Susan Lucci from the soap operas, right? All my children. 

[00:20:04] TEREZ: We were young, young, you know, and he assigned us in his, uh, his troop. So, um, it just put us out in the world prepared. You know. 

[00:20:14] WANDA: Uh huh. And is he still alive? 

[00:20:17] TEREZ: He is still alive. We are still in contact.

[00:20:19] WANDA: No way. Oh, that's great. 

[00:20:22] TEREZ: Every, every pride we get together. 

[00:20:25] WANDA: That's so wonderful. Isn't it great when you're like a young person and you have that teacher or coach or mentor, regardless of their sexual expression, but that, Is able to offer that to you. And in this case, even better that he happened to be also in the queer community.

So when, when you say that there was something that was really, you know, beyond the obvious, right. That he was a very nurturing and compassionate human being. It sounds like. Was there something about him being gay that was also kind of resonated for you? 

[00:20:59] TEREZ: Yeah, for me, I just needed to see what we look like in the world, you know, how we progressed, you know, particularly in the area I was used to. There was, there was nobody other than people on television that I saw and I had no connection to any of those, but you know, he was always there to make sure that we were guided in the right way. Like when I became a stage manager, I was 15 years old. I remember one day I had a rough day. I was off Broadway and he would, you know, literally package me up and, you know, put me on the train or sometimes I ride in with him and I'm working with all these adults. And I'm like, you know, and he said, I trained you to know everything that you know how to do. Just do what you do. But, you know, but in my mind, I'm like, these are adults. I have to listen to them, you know, like, you know, and they're actors and they were all seasoned and, you know, did what they did. And he was like, you were trained to do what you do.

Right, right, right. You do that. They will respect you for that. They need to see that. Right. And like, he was there always for the emotional aspects of it. When I, when I liked a girl, I remember him taking me out like, you know, like a father would in a sense. Uh huh. And sitting me down and saying, well, what do you like about her? You know? You know, just, just things we would have many, um, he introduced me to sushi. Actually, we had many conversations over sushi. Actually, you're, you're inspiring me to go back and tell him. 

[00:22:18] WANDA: I love that. I mean, I had a similar experience with my first boss, so to speak, who was a Welshman, wild man, straight, but he took me under his wing.

I was a young woman, probably 20 years old, 21 years old. And, um, just showed me, like, how to eat properly and etiquette, you know, with, like, you know, what to use when and for what at the restaurants and the fancy restaurants and language and, and about photography and the arts and theater that always stayed with me.

[00:22:56] TEREZ: We were working on a production. I forget which one it was. I remember the studio was the Men's Coff Rehearsal Studios, Midtown. And I read and ate and drank everything theater. So I knew everything that was moving around to all the players, you name it, from the Schubert's to the men's, you, you name it, I knew it.

So he's like, Oh, okay. So you think, you know, everything, right? So, no, I don't know everything, but you know, that's me. So we're working in there one day and somebody knocks on the door and the door opens and I look and he looks and he looks back at me You know, and with this big smile and I was like, Tommy, 

[00:23:30] WANDA: you can't miss Tommy.

[00:23:32] TEREZ: Yeah. And he's like, I just wanted to see if he knew him. He's she's like, Oh, she knows me. And he came in, he gave us a big hug. He gave us a, you know, congratulations on the success and yada, yada. You know, it was just, he always did those guys. He did the same thing with Michael Bennett, you know, kind of forged a connection with Michael Bennett and I when he did one of his assistants on the show.

So it was just, it's just amazing, you know, what he was able to do with my life. And I will, There's never been anything, I consider him a spirit more so than a person, you know, because he did, he had male energy, he had female energy, you know, he had, um, he was colorless, you know, that was at a time when we needed to see that, you know, and he just embodied that.

He lived on a yacht. All the kids would come on the yacht and hang out and he did, yeah. He was, that was, he was, he was a nautilus. He was, uh, actually, I believe he was the doc master for South Freeport for a very long time. Okay. So when we would do scripts, if he wanted to get away, we would go do scripts and stuff in the summer, work on them and come back.

He just gave us such a whole different. 

That's incredible. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great story. Yeah. Ron Russo. Thank you. So now let's switch 

[00:24:47] WANDA: into, This nightlife scene, why do you think in the early nineties, there was such a moment of like lesbian visibility and this moment of not only like just with us, but you know, there was also a moment in popular culture, you know, in the music scene, in hip hop where I don't know, there was just like this moment of empowerment.

[00:25:14] TEREZ: I can't tell you why, but I can tell you that current was deep. And it was twofold, right? Because it was for the industry you were told not to be you. You know, and when you get my wife on your show, I really want you to sit down and talk to her because she has a very unique experience there.

[00:25:29] WANDA: I'd love to talk to her.

[00:25:30] TEREZ: Yeah. They literally told her like, don't say a word, you know, you're messing up the money. And you know, some of the people are in the news today with the BS. But anyway, um, that's not my experience. That's hers. I will say that I did recognize like once upon a time they would, it seemed to be nobody growing up. In it, and like I'll say, came out like maybe in the 80s. And all of a sudden we were everywhere, right? I mean, shape, size, color, it didn't matter, you know, everywhere. We were in your businesses, we were behind your DJ booths, we were everywhere, you know, and we were visible and we were connecting. That's the thing, you know, and it stayed like that for a minute, you know, and like I said, linking it back, just being in the New York, I'll just say, because that's where I partied mostly, being in New York, it was an explosion, and it was a, and you guys were right there.

You know, right there in, in when the explosion happened to cultivate, make sure the women's experiences was curated. And I didn't know, let me, can I ask you a question, actually? Sure. And I'll tell you why I'm asking the question. Because those memories, coupled with the fact that I was a big room, girl for a minute, you know, like the smallest place I danced was like, I think this club called Better Days, which is very small. And then from there, I go to the garage, which was where my godbrother, Larry LeVan played. That wasn't an intimate woman spot, you know, they were always mixed. When you actually, and Shari actually had the premise to want to do these parties, what inspired it? 

[00:27:10] WANDA: So Shari and I had been talking about, we also loved going to dance spaces, you know, and there were the the clubs, right? The bigger clubs. And then there were some smaller kind of venues maybe for mixed gay people. And then there was the Friday night click club that we would go to that, you know, we really loved, but it had its own thing. It was a more like sex forward, like dark, sweaty Dance venue, you know that that was great, right?

We all enjoyed that but we felt that we needed to have Something where we could actually kind of have a conversation with someone Maybe you know as we always joke we joked at the time like we wanted to get a drink in a proper glass Not a plastic cup, you know, we wanted to be above ground, not in a basement. And we wanted to, you know, hear music and, and kind of feel fabulous about ourselves and be able to dress up and go out somewhere and see other women in a beautiful location. That was a challenge, right? Because where are we going to do that? Who is going to let us do that? You know, finding a space, uh, and we got very lucky cause we were like, screw it. We're going to walk into this joint that happened to be the hottest restaurant in New York city at the time, because it was in the beginning of like where restaurants became restaurant clubs, lounges at the, you know, and, uh, Cafe Tabac was in the gossip columns and page six, like every day with their celebrity sightings.

And we just saw, well, we got nothing to lose to go up there and ask them. And he was like, well, a lesbian party? They're like, I don't know. I don't know that my boss is going to go for that, that the owner is going to go for that. But the only night that we can offer you is Sunday night because it's our slowest night.

We're not going to pay you, but go ahead and do something and let's see what you can bring to the, you know, to the venue. So Shari and I were like, okay, great. That's what we're going to do. And we scrambled to, you know, Make flyers to look in our little phone books because this was before cell phones and and social media You know, you had to like call people you had to go hand somebody a flyer Personally, you had to go to other clubs and like remember like going to the clubs to flyer.

Yes the first Sunday was And the owners were shocked. The bartender, in fact, I remember it was a female bartender. She heard there was going to be a lesbian party. So she, you know, they hired her to come and work that night when she was at the bar and women started coming in. And she looked over and said, but when are the, when are the lesbians going to be here?

And they were like, those are the lesbians. Because, you know, she in her mind had this stereotypical image of what a lesbian party was going to be like. She was shocked. Right. And so was the owner. And the rest is history, you know, and then that party like was. was, you know, a big success and a catalyst, I think, from the conversations in the documentary that we're working on, you know, it really helped a lot of women that were at that event sort of come out of their shell and recognize how powerful and beautiful they were.

And they also created friendships that have lasted a lifetime at that event. 

[00:30:44] TEREZ: Yep. Yep. I remember after, cause I was at that party, incidentally. And I remember afterwards. I was asked, so I was talking, having to kind of, I heard this was, there was this party and he signed it out. I was like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Café Tabac. Why? What do you want to know about it? You know, because it would be protective about, okay, well, what do you, what did you hear? It wasn't a party for everybody. Oh, I heard it's a lesbian party, you know.

The work got out very quickly, but you know, it was very, what I liked about it, it was very respectful. You did, we didn't have a lot of, and you have to tell me from your perspective, at least I didn't see from a patron perspective, that people, now I did see some folk, but I didn't see that people were trying to bombard it and make it something else because, you know, objectify the women in the parties.

You know, so a couple of people from the industry would come in with, you know, whatever they were risk treatable after you get there, you can't come in with no BS, you know what I mean? Right, right, right. There's too many, you know. 

[00:31:39] WANDA: Yeah. No, I agree. I think that what was beautiful about the space and about the energy that was created there by the room. By the music, by Shari and I being the hosts, by what we wanted to do ourselves. I mean, we wanted to create it like it was, you know, folks coming into our home, right? And you got to respect our home and that carried out. And there was a diversity there. And I think there was a mutual respect, not only among the patrons and the women, but the people that would come in.

I mean, certainly men came in, you know, that like gay men came in and straight men came in and straight couples. And they just wanted to be surrounded by the energy and the beauty from what I've been told. And they knew. They thought they were going to go up in there and carry on or do something, you know, be disrespectful.

They got shut down immediately. I think they were very surprised at what they found. They didn't know what to expect and when they walked in they were like, oh, we got to behave here because these women are fierce. 

[00:32:39] TEREZ: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. One of my male industry, I won't call him a friend, but somebody that we, you know, we all know this in the industry, you know, I remember when I first met you.

[00:32:49] WANDA: Russell Simmons. Yeah.

[00:32:56] TEREZ: I remember when I first met you, I was like, well, where is that? He said, the Café du Back. And I was like, yeah, because you came in walking in with one of my friends and I was trying to figure out why she bought you. That was why. 

[00:33:08] WANDA: Oh yeah, then he started coming in frequently. 

[00:33:10] TEREZ: But it's regular, yes. Oh yeah, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

[00:33:17] WANDA: Russell. Oh, yeah. Russell's part of, yeah. And then the Beauty of Bard'o, which, you know, I really loved is, yeah, it was smaller, more intimate, definitely like felt more underground. And there was a slew of hip hop artists and singers and creatives that would come there on a Monday night. Who thought that anyone would go out on a Monday night, right?

I really didn't expect that party to Go for eight years and be crowded every Monday night. And it did. 

[00:33:52] TEREZ: That's where you saw more of the, if I had to separate the two, I would say Tabac was more like upscale modelesque chic, she, she, right. But not bougie to the point where you couldn't come in very, very, both venues were that way.

Bard'O was more living room kind of vibe. Dark, sexy, you know, like you can come in there and you can hide if you want to, but you really weren't, but you could. I don't know what you could, but yeah, so I guess that's why it attracted a lot of the industry girls that were out in the world, but not out in the world.

Right. I mean, out of the paper, so to speak, but not in the world, you know. 

[00:34:31] WANDA: I mean, now Latifah is out to the world, but she wasn't necessarily at the, at that time. But, you know, she was there every Monday night and obviously Monifah was there. Do you remember Monifah like sang for my birthday one time? I don't know if you were there that night.

I don't remember that. My sister surprised me and she asked Monifah to do a performance at Bardo because it was my birthday. And I walked in for work and, um, a little bit into the night, Monifa came out and she did this whole thing. I was like, the room went crazy, right? And all the gals that would go there every Monday.

Okay. And it was a blast. Yeah, it was great. 

[00:35:07] TEREZ: All right. I definitely remember seeing her in there and we would dance and party. Yeah. All the crew, you know, everybody was, was loving it. You know, you were all mutual friends, right? 

[00:35:16] WANDA: How did you initially like get together with Monifa just organically? 

[00:35:20] TEREZ: You know, it's funny because we've known each other in the periphery forever.

We've always had friends that were connected. We didn't actually hang out one on one. A lot of people don't know this until like, I want to say 2009, you know, um, but known each other over the, like, we'd see each other at different parts of outside of New York, like different places we were, and we'd always stop, show each other love, you know, but we would never, just by mutual connection and being in the industry, moving fast, you know, and, but it's always, always interesting, always stop to give each other hugs and love and that kind of thing, but kept it moving, you know, it wasn't until like 2009, That, uh, a friend of mine, a mutual friend of ours, actually another one, we knew everybody in common, you know, but came and, um, I was having this PMS craving.

So wanted to take me to this, I said, I need chicken wings. I need some good quality chicken wings. So she came and picked me up and we went to this place on Broadway called Malay Kong. You probably know Malay Kong, but they have great rotisserie chicken. It's the sauce. So we went there and they were out of chicken.

They have another site somewhere close by. So I said, well, call ahead to see if they have chicken. They were out of chicken because something crazy, some phenomenon happened and they, both their restaurants I hit and they had no more chicken. But had a robust menu, but just nothing else. So it's like, you know, so now I'm PMS, I'm already out of my bed and I'm like, I'm being irascible, right?

So she says, wait a minute, let me call my friend. So I don't know who she's calling. I'm like, where are you calling? Is this a place with a restaurant that has, you know, so she calls and she goes, come on, let's go. She says, we're going down the village, um, this place called groove. They have good wings, you'll probably appreciate them.

They're not going to be Malecon level, but you know, it won't be trash. I said, okay, we get in and we walk in the door and Mo's on the stage. So I was like, wait, is this a live bar, live music bar? She says, well, yeah, yeah. She says, you know Mo? And I was like, yeah. I said, but this is really intimate. I said, I don't want to be busting back wings.

Like. Like, you know, that wasn't my, you know, so she's like, don't worry about it. Whatever. So she'd already ordered them. We came in there, we sat down, whatever. So she most saw us from the stage, come in and she smiled and we smiled back. I hadn't seen her physically in years at that point and she started to sing now.

It was also the first time outside of her recording stuff that I'd, uh, ever heard her. I never heard her live. You know, and people knew me as the kind of music snob, so to speak, because I was theater and my theater head at that point. So it was like, okay, you know, recording my, I was into a lot of eclectic music.

Me and Shari had kind of the same music thing. So it wasn't really the music that Heavy Deep had her singing, um, with the exception of a few tunes, weren't something that I had in rotation, you know, and it wasn't her voice either. It was the voice that he created for her. They curated together, let's just say.

So hearing her live and hearing her recorded two different things, you know, and I was just like, where did all this come from? You know, I immediately, so Jazz was like, I told you, I was like, but that's not what the records. She's like, I know. And I was just, it was crazy. And then, you know, if you've ever heard her live and you, and you said, yeah.

Difference in voice. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And now it's even better. I think. Oh, that's great. Yeah. And then after that, we just became, you know, inseparable, you know, um, after she got off stage, we started, you know, talking and I immediately went on her some chicken wings. 

[00:38:47] WANDA: That's a good thing. They ran out of chicken at Malacong, otherwise. This never would have happened. 

[00:38:51] TEREZ: You know what I'm saying? It's really Malecon to thank okay. You know, we started, you know, joking and laughing. And I was like, You fronted on the American public. I said, you gave us this recorded music in that voice and we didn't, and this is not what it is. So that we started the banter and then it became something else and she thought she was being flirty.

Her version of the story is going to be much different than mine. Takes it in the lead and I take it in the, yeah, right. Yeah. It's fun. It's fun. 

[00:39:23] WANDA: And then how many years now is it that you've been together? 

[00:39:27] TEREZ: Um, together 14, married 10. Wow. So we just made our 10th year this year. 

[00:39:33] WANDA: Congratulations. And my understanding is that your wedding in Honolulu was the first African American lesbian wedding that was televised?

[00:39:45] TEREZ: Yes. Yes. Can you believe that? What was that experience like? That must have been intense. Initially, we didn't want to do it. It was at a time when there was a lot of turmoil about whether or not rights would be passed. There was a whole lot of stuff, you know, going on and just things weren't civil. You know, people were all in calling and doing things that just didn't make any sense for human beings, right?

So, there were a lot of Christian sensibilities wrapped around a lot of the decision making. And it just didn't serve us not to, you know, we were in a loving relationship and folks needed to see how this was. Now all the time we were filming RME Divas, it was interesting because we started getting inboxes to our email.

Some were wonderful. Some were like, what the hell are you doing? And You know, they have this phrase that I cannot stand, shoving things down your throat. I'm like, well, you know, your mouth has to be open. You know, like you have to be interested. You have to be in the room for that to happen. Like, why are you here?

You don't have to have anything shoved down your throat, right? And then there were the other ones that were curious, you know, and, and then a lot of folk that were tuned into the show. So it hit my inbox, it hit her inbox, it hit the inbox of TV One. And then we said to ourselves, you know, what would this look like?

You know, should we do it? You know, and we were already, um, planning to be married, but not necessarily on TV at the time. But then Mo said, well, you know what? I'm filming, I'm scheduling everything else around in my life, then this has to be scheduled in too. So we sat and we talked to the producers who were willing to do it.

Um, actually they came to us to want to do it, we turned them down the first time, but then we said, you know what, let's revisit this. Right. And we did, and showed them the abbreviated process, you know, um, because for, you know, it's for TV, so you don't get to see everything, but a lot of stuff was taped that, you know, I wish that we could see the whole entire thing, you know, minus the edits, but, yeah.

It was a beautiful day filling it. 'cause we did all of the wedding stuff prior to the planning, you know, and up to including, you know, and it's interesting when you're trying to do tele, I see we television, either we're gonna do it Mm-Hmm. , or we're not gonna do it. So there were a couple of places that were vying for us to be able to do it Right.

Uhhuh, , Uhhuh, . But the reality was in the countries that they were in. They weren't LGBT friendly. Right. I was gonna ask. I was not going to do that. And be hypocritical or, and, or your own safety. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and like there was, there's one huge conglomerate. In fact, if I can say it, Hard Rock Cafe.

They wanted to do it in Mexico, right? And so when we asked, okay, can we get the marriage license and certificate there? They were like, Oh no, because the country doesn't, so then why would we be doing that? Yeah, exactly. We're already getting enough stink mail. I don't want to, you know what I mean? Do that.

Make people think the Hard Rock is the place to go because we've advertised it that way and they get there and they can't get married there. So Hawaii was on the verge of their, uh, they had just passed in Hawaii, right? And we were like, look at this, you know, Hawaii just passed. So we like, okay, you know what?

Then Hawaii it is. And we went there and, um, we're celebrated, you know, um, and. The rest, and they found a hotel that was, um, that could house it and make the production end of it. Um, and, and the rest is history. It's very intimate, um, very beautiful, you know. 

[00:43:09] WANDA: I saw some of the images, uh, online and it looked, looked really beautiful.

What was the ultimate feedback that you got from the ceremony and from you and Monifa sharing this with the public? 

[00:43:24] TEREZ: Amazing. In fact, there was one particular woman whose information I still may have somewhere. I'd have to dig for it. I don't know why she sent me and I blocked her. And she came back another way and continued the conversation.

And because I don't check my inboxes a lot, it wasn't really on me that way, you know, but I was like, this lady has a lot of shit to get off, you know, like, cause she keeps coming back to somebody she does not like and care for. But then after she saw the wedding, what she shared was, And if she had done that in the beginning, it probably would have given her a lot of peace that her daughter, she's in conflict with her daughter coming out.

All of this stuff was stuff that she couldn't say to her daughter. So she targeted us, right? But after the wedding, she sent the most loving letter. It almost felt like I heard her crying in the letter, you know, 

[00:44:10] WANDA: she had like a come to moment of how love is love. Yeah. Yeah. She to embrace your child. 

[00:44:17] TEREZ: Yes, yes. And she made her daughter watch the wedding because she said she didn't even know what that looked like, what it could be. And, you know, and I, you know, honestly, I could say maybe even, you know, there's some things that I don't see differently, you know, so I don't understand how other people don't until they express it, you know, um, what can't you see?

I mean, you see two men, two women, man, woman, it's the same kind of thing together, people expressing love. 

[00:44:43] WANDA: That is. It's like the fear of the unknown, right? If you don't know it, if you haven't seen it, if you don't know what it looks like, if you haven't been able to express it or, or see the visual expression of what love between two women can look like, you know, they have in their minds, I don't know what they have in their minds, you know, usually it's something deviant.

[00:45:05] TEREZ: It's like, it makes no sense. Right. But, you know, when you see the beauty of just two humans that want to spend the rest of their lives together. What's not, you know, to appreciate and understand about that. Right. And what does your brain do that clicks to from seeing two people together loving, right?

Because all, all we ever talk about is love. What does your brain do automatically that clicks you into their bedroom scene? 

[00:45:32] WANDA: That I'm more, I'm more. That's more on them, right? 

[00:45:35] TEREZ: Yeah, exactly. I'm like, why are you projecting all that sex on me like that? Like, I didn't even invite you to my bed, which is one of the reasons why we didn't want to film anything with us laying in bed together.

Right. Because that was always, you know, like waiting for the sex scene. And I'd seen other production companies when they were doing like, you know, whatever they were doing, you know, shout out to them. But you always had these, you know, two women in a jacuzzi. And that's what carries that stigma. Because quite frankly, we, we know Wanda, we ain't always in jacuzzis.

If, if we all, if we are ever in jacuzzis, you know, like, what is this thing? And who are you appealing to? I know, exactly. Who's your audience that wants to see this? Go watch, you know, porn. com or whatever. Exactly. Like, that ain't how we live our lives. We are loving. We have families. We have grandchildren, you know, I have six grandchildren.

[00:46:25] WANDA: Mm hmm. Same here. I got a couple. 

[00:46:28] TEREZ: Okay. Well, don't want to see me in no jacuzzi. I got no time for a jacuzzi. Hilarious. Oh, 

[00:46:37] WANDA: that is hilarious. But so we didn't talk about the R& B divas. So that was mostly, um, That was Monifa's thing, but since you were in her life too, so you were part of the show as well, no?

[00:46:50] TEREZ: Yes. Yeah, and that was a big success. Yes, it was actually, um, and it did a great franchise in LA as well. Still buzzing, people still want to see that back. It's funny, we had a conversation about that just the other week. It was a docu series about, at the time, the inaugural five were Nicky Daniels. Well, Nikki Gilbert from Brownstone, um, Evans, uh, Kiki White, Selena Johnson, and Monifa.

That's wonderful. And then they had Angie Stone and Mila and, oh, yeah, we were all at the wedding, incidentally. They were. Oh, that must have been a hoot. That wedding must have been on fire. Oh, it was. It was a, it was a big time. Did you have a lot of singing going on? Oh, yeah. so much, everyone. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Actually, the only difference in the wedding episode is that who actually sang us coming down the aisle was Rahsaan Patterson. It wasn't Kiki. Kiki sang the reception. Oh, okay. But Rahsaan sang the actual, we chose one of his songs, um, Can We Wait a Minute was our wedding theme song.

[00:47:52] WANDA: Oh, wow. I love it. Yeah. Do you feel that attitudes have shifted? In the music scene now in regards to, as you know, being open and having a career as we see, you know, there. multiple artists that are not only open in their careers, but singing about same sex relationships. 

I

[00:48:19] TEREZ: think it's shifting. I think it's an ING. And I think, um, when, since Clive wrote his book and told the truth, I think it made it. easier for a lot of, because, you know, I think that there were quite a few people behind the helm of people not telling, you know, and then people make the choice, you know, um, there are some, and I do believe that everybody has a right to share their story when they, when they can, or if they want to, you know, um, and then there are people that say, Hey, this is what I'm selling. I'm not selling you my personal and that's it, you know, and that's fine too. You know, I'm not a hater there either, you know, um, but yeah, Either way, I think it's an ING, you know, because it's behind the scenes. There's still a lot of gunk that needs to be cleaned out. Do you still feel like there's the like, Oh, you know, you know, keep it to yourself kind of thing.

Just do the music. You don't need to be like, you know, out and about or talking about this or that. It depends on the artist, you know, I do, I think that authenticity, those matchups, I think it hurts an artist to be singing love songs only designated toward women. And you know, you don't particularly care for women that way.

Right. I think you can get trapped off in a minute, you know, female fans will make you and when they find out it's such a, you know, like there's still artists that are in their graves that still get that, you know. 

[00:49:32] WANDA: And on the flip side, there's also like my music and my art reflects my authentic self and that doesn't necessarily mean that I have to be singing about, you know, my same sex partner, you know, I can sing about whatever I want to sing about, you know, so, yeah.

[00:49:50] TEREZ: Love, universal. It doesn't have a gender, it doesn't have a You know, it's just universal. So, you know, I just think that today with social media, we have broken that fourth wall. So in order to like, and I know that some of these business decisions are made on how popular you are, may not even be necessarily your talent, but it's about, you know, how much influence or how popular you are or, and that has nothing to do with what you're actually selling, you know, in that, you know, you don't want to be somewhere where what's saying is different from who you are, right? So, you know, cause you get dragged that way, you know, we're gone of the days where people can be mysterious. I think Janet and Michael and them came out of that realm where you could be whatever, you know, and not have to talk about it, you know, but nowadays it's a whole different landscape, you know, You have to be a little more accessible, you know, about what you want them to access, you know, right, right. Yeah, you know, it's a privacy is just like kind of out the window now with all of the social media anyway. So yeah, you got to fight for it, you know, you got to fight for it. And I find personally, the more private I want to be, the less I am. So, so I've kind of sculpted it in a way where I stay in the public, you know, that way you don't, it's kind of like right in your face.

So you don't really get caught. There's some cities that we go to and they're like, ah, still, and I'm a New Yorker. So a native New Yorker. So I have a different way of managing that stuff. Like, wait, wait, hold on. You're not getting anything until you relax. You need to relax. Yeah, it was like, I went through a thing where people were like publicly assaulting me.

[00:51:28] WANDA: Oh my goodness. No. I know. That's a lot. 

[00:51:32] TEREZ: I could not even, that was, I could not even fathom that, like, literally running behind me in the Port Authority. Do you know screaming your name? Well, I'm not screaming my name, but I'm walking and I have my headphones on, but you know, not blaring, you know. Yeah. Uh huh.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm hearing a kid actually running and something said turn around next thing I know I got people on my back like security's taking them off me. I had a girl jump over the bus somebody like she was not the row behind me but the row behind that she's jumping over the seat trying to you know and I'm like she pulled my hair I'm like yo you know.

Oh no. Subway platforms that were not safe, you know, like, like you just, you have to move a different way in New York cause we always see people, you know, like we, we shouldn't be estranged of that, but the new culture is different. It's a little different. Right, right. 

[00:52:22] WANDA: So I know that you do some advocacy work. Since the landscape of LGBTQ communities have, um, advanced and changed, what have you seen reflected now, reflected back in terms of how people are feeling or engaging with each other? Or what comes up for you in terms of advocacy now with your groups? 

[00:52:43] TEREZ: There's a lot less homelessness than it was when I first started working, like kids were literally living and suffering on the streets.

And having hard times finding shelters that would not be abusive, you know, um, or. Get them in a deeper situation at the time. I was spearheading a lot of the what they call congregate care facilities for kids at one point it was 10 through 17 and another part was Transitional from 17 to 23 trying to get them and a lot of my population was LGBT youth I've done different modalities of housing up to and including HIV AIDS housing.

So I don't do that anymore. I've retired out of that, but in terms of like still being an advocate for coming back and doing keynote stuff, I do, you know, um, because that's still part of my heartbeat, you know, making sure the kids are good. We've done a lot of stuff with the Hedrick Martin Institute as well.

you know, just making sure that, you know, if we need it, we are there and being able to along the way. I, one of my dream projects, which, you know, I don't, I don't know, I've had a couple of them, but was to be able to do a whole center, you know, that was part commercial and part residential and be able to have it run by the kids that come through so that you're able to, you know, do that.

So that's good. You know, kind of have an idea of how much they have a cost. I'm still working in that area. 

[00:54:04] WANDA: I have another friend, she works for, um, an LGBTQ organization, but they just, um, finished a buildout of housing for LGBTQI plus seniors because they're having issues with a lot of these. Queer folk that are now transitioning into elder care without being, uh, childless or, you know, alone.

Their mutual friends are also of a certain age. And to be able to go 

into a facility with like minded folks with the care and the entertainment and whatever that it is that might be more specific to their sensibilities. Was something that they felt was needed and they were able to get this off the ground.

So I thought that was great Yeah,

[00:54:51] TEREZ: I love that. That's that's amazing because I know the work that it takes to do that That's a labor of love and to be able to see that project come off and see right and to get the funding for it Mm hmm. That's amazing and hats off to her

[00:55:05] WANDA: Is there anything else that we haven't discussed that you might like to mention?

[00:55:14] TEREZ: Okay. Uh, when, when is the documentary, how are you guys doing with it? Where is that right now? Like, how is that coming along? 

[00:55:21] WANDA: Documentary has been a labor of love as well, since it's independent and it has to be funded by, you know, individual donations and grants. The grant scene has been laborious and also, like, not as successful as we would want it to be because, you know, there's so many different topics that are out there and maybe this topic isn't necessarily at the forefront of people's like, you know, grant giving, because there's so many things happening, you know, and as you know, uh, there's always like, depending on what's going on in the world, there are funds and documentary sort of issues that sometimes take precedence, but we are in post kind of, we've done all of our interviews.

We've done a lot of editing. It's been cut down from 62 interviews and hours and hours and hours to three hours. And now we need to like whittle that down to like an hour and a half. So, we're making progress, but it's, it's been hard because, you know, then life takes over, right? We have to, we have to work, we, you know, my director, Karen and her partner just had a, a baby, you know, I, I've been elder caring for years. My mom just passed in January. So that, you know, that was a lot of like, you know, side distractions, but, um, but we're getting closer and closer and I'm so excited cause I can't wait to share this story, you know? 

[00:56:52] TEREZ: That'd be great to do like a, around a pride month to have that premiere somewhere. Um, even if I have a theater or I have some close connections to national and international theater.

Oh, yeah, definitely. At me when you're ready, or I can actually. Ask her some questions about how something like that or if there isn't are any grants that she's aware of, you know, right? Yeah. 

[00:57:14] WANDA: Yeah. No, I definitely when it's ready. I want to do the whole like, you know circuit of all the festivals and obviously all the you know, pride festivals everywhere because that's our Those are peeps.

Yeah, 

[00:57:29] TEREZ: landmark it. It has to be, you know, it deserves to be landmark. Yeah. 

[00:57:33] WANDA: Oh, it's historical for sure. It's a great story. 

[00:57:37] TEREZ: And I'll say this to you. You said one last thing, and I saved this for last particularly because of you and Shari and the inspiration that was connected into my mental Rolodex. I opened my own venue, right, in Newark, New Jersey.

Now, I'll say I opened because it was open and very successful for like a year and a half before I started having major partner conflicts. One thing that I was inspired by too many greats and including yourselves in that to ever do anything that's subpar, you know, I don't even have that in my head. So, I've learned a lot in terms of picking partners that make sense, that are in it for the right reasons and that are from the culture, right?

I'm going to do it again. Oh, great. Yeah, I'm going to do it again where we actually own the building and I'm working on that now. So wherever we land, I will be tapping you. 

[00:58:31] WANDA: Please let us know. Of course. Not only do we want to support, but we'll get it out there, get folks to know where you are. 

And this is the venue that you had where you did you had live music there as well? 

Yeah, yes, that's coming to actually an official close, you know, so I'm just, you know, we're setting up I've talked to folks that I know can take it to a different level and I'm getting rid of the partner that I had before, um, and I have a, such a loving nucleus around to, of like minded people to want to move this forward.

Oh yeah. This will happen. It'll definitely happen. And you want it 

to be in, in the same location? Well, in terms of like in Newark, was it in New Jersey? Newark, New Jersey. 

[00:59:11] TEREZ: Yeah. I don't think so. And nothing against the community there. Um, it's just different. I will look for a place that speaks to the heart of what I want to do.

So you know, that's And we'll see, you know, 

[00:59:23] WANDA: the best of luck. And please let us know if there's anything we can do to assist you in that. That would be incredible. Has to happen. 

[00:59:29] TEREZ: Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening. For more, subscribe to Sundays at Cafe Tabac, the podcast. You can also learn more about us and our film at CafeTabacFilm.

com and at Cafe Tabac Film on social media. Please share your thoughts with us. And if you have a coming out story that you'd like to share, This episode was recorded at the Newsstand Studio at Rockefeller Center, here in the heart of New York City. Special thanks to Joseph Hazen and Karen Song for their support.

See you next time!