Joe Miller: [00:00:00] Gary Wood welcome to Titans of transition podcast. I'm so happy you're here today. And everyone listening in I just want to let you know that Gary is a very special man to me early in The year, 2002, I found Gary online because I had gone to a new industry and I was having some challenges being successful and others that I knew had been using coaches and I decided I needed to engage a coach. Gary you were so helpful to me back then. Through your coaching , it really helped me make some great decisions and move forward in a positive way, but it also gave me an interest in looking into coaching myself. so Gary, welcome again. why don't you let folks know where do you current, where do you currently. Where have you been residing?
Gary Wood: [00:00:52] Yeah. we're about a couple of hours North of Toronto in Ontario, Canada.
Yeah. And we've been here for quite a number of years, so yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:01:03] Yeah. And I, I so excited that you agreed to come on the podcast not just because of this connection and how you've helped me in the past but also I think you have some interesting transition stories and before we get totally into that, I just want to just let everyone know that we have a little bit deeper connection because we have shared faith. And that I think helped us since our worldviews were so tightly aligned a, it was a deeper engagement, at least for me. And that's one of the reasons why I sought you out, having that shared worldview, that shared faith.
So that was. Great, but let's talk a little bit about your career professionally and what's your you're doing today and how we got there. And there's a couple transition stories you want might want to lay out for folks.
Gary Wood: [00:01:51] Wow. How long do you have, where do you want it?
Joe Miller: [00:01:53] We like to keep these under an hour if we can, so.
Gary Wood: [00:01:56] Where would you like to start actually moving into coaching, which will be coming up on. Whatever 23 years now. and just thinking of transitions, coaching just didn't arrive overnight, right? It was the result of probably a lot of things that went on before, before I even knew coaching as a profession.
Joe Miller: [00:02:21] Well, okay, maybe touch on that a little bit, because I think that's extremely relevant.
Gary Wood: [00:02:25] Yeah. So, so my background really had me working with literally thousands of people. Every year, we were involved with a Christian camp, big transition for us giving up our careers back at the time and moving up to the area that we currently live in to work behind the scenes at a camp.
And to plant a church as well, but that time, that camp, and after 15 years behind the scenes, then we then we transitioned and I took over the leadership of that camping organization. And then as full time that ended up being, working with so many people, Young men and women, adults, couples that sort of thing.
So that gets me then to, into the question that you asked, which is when we finished that work, when we passed that work on to two younger couples, and I was asking myself, what do I do next? It was it's had that foundation on caring about people. It had that foundation of realizing that, wow, maybe I could make a difference in people's lives.
And it was right at that time where is an interesting little circumstance took place. And I happened to be sitting, reading in a book. I thought I was going to would be like your Barnes and Noble up here it's chapters. And I thought I was going to go into doing public. Seminars and that sort of thing and training.
And I saw this one little paragraph, Joe, just one paragraph about this new profession called coaching. And it was new. Yeah.
it's not been around that long and it was very new back
then. Yeah. That captured my imagination and sitting there, I thought, yep. That's it. I want to look into this and that's what then transitioned me into coaching.
Joe Miller: [00:04:33] That's interesting. Just curious about that a little bit, because coming from the background that you've come from, did you consider counseling? Because a lot of times people who, who might be in, in that faith walk, that faith background want to engage with people. That's a typical path as well.
It's not coaching,
Gary Wood: [00:04:52] obviously I did not. Okay, I'm just curious. Oh no. And it seemed to me and again, I don't want to put my foot in my mouth or something, but it just seemed to me that the coaching was much more in line with that kind of forward focused personal and professional development angle that my head was in.
So yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:05:14] You, you it was early on, but you engaged with some kind of a certification organization or what happened?
Gary Wood: [00:05:23] Well, there was only one organization that did exist back then coach university. So I signed up for coach university and very shortly after they began corporate coach university using all of us who were present as the.
As the Guinea pigs, and as the ones who were developing their programs.
Joe Miller: [00:05:42] So I think they call that founding members.
Gary Wood: [00:05:44] Right. Yeah. And so I Coach University and Corporate Coach University. That's what I graduated from. Yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:05:52] And, you know, I engaged you over the phone. Right. I mean, even back then, there wasn't, I wasn't engaging with zoom or anything like that.
That really, there were platforms like that, but, that we take for granted today, what this call, how easy it is. But back then, those were just reserved for the corporate office with very high end, a hundred thousand dollar plus pieces of equipment and those sorts of things. So a lot of the coaching was remote on the phone, unless of course you were doing it, in your local town or city.
Then you might travel and meet face to face
Gary Wood: [00:06:30] you're real tools. unless it did happen to be personal, as you're saying, in person. So the real tools, I mean, you had a you had a website and we're talking back in 1998, so yeah, one of those ancient kind of websites at least for the, solo entrepreneur and the phone.
Yeah. That was it. Yeah. Yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:06:53] Yeah. And maybe just, if you don't mind just taking a little bit of time and cause I think this comes up a lot for me is differentiating between mentoring and coaching. I know that I often, when people reach out to me, there's some confusion.
Gary Wood: [00:07:13] Yeah. So I would say mentoring, that my, my simple take on it, really, Joe mentoring. I have something that I'm going to pass on to you. My experience will be beneficial to you where I might be able to say, you know, try this, do it this way. Make sure you avoid that. And, in the real world, there is an element of that.
I mean, I work. It's starting. I'm starting to get to the point where most leaders are starting to look younger than myself. So from time to time, you have some wisdom that you hopefully might be able to impart, but by and large mentoring is a gain, more telling. Mentoring is passing on of experience.
Whereas coaching is drawing from the individual themselves. It's building on what they already know. It's helping them add what they might need to know, and it's moving forward from there. There may be. bits and pieces in the conversation where you're able to be of help with some experience that you've had.
That's the difference?
Joe Miller: [00:08:24] That's great. I mean it, I often engage with people in the technology space because of my background. And people have led IT, which was my area. They tend to be a little bit more pragmatic and their thought is I need to know this information. This domain information and apply it.
I just don't have enough information in order to be successful. And that's really fits more. I think, of a mentoring situation where you're looking for specific information advice within a domain, but then you're softer in terms of challenging the individual. It's kind of a friendly conversation over lunch.
And how did you, address, this kind of thing, that sort of conversation versus with me coaching is just, as you said, it's more non-directive and it's more dealing with what's inside. What kind of obstacles in our mindsets or work do we need to do to understand our strengths? And our natural wiring and how do we turn those things into positives in the workplace or in life and so-
Gary Wood: [00:09:31] Life, leadership.
Joe Miller: [00:09:32] Whatever, whatever it would be. But anyway, I thought that might be a helpful thing to, to discuss
Gary Wood: [00:09:38] Well just to that point. I would say this, that. I have the wonderful privilege of working with some really smart cookies. like yourself and in some ways, what do I know about what it is they do, maybe I have a general knowledge, but some physicist who's working with a bump on an atom or something.
What do I know about that? but they're not they're not engaging me to know what they know. They're engaging me to know people. They're engaging me to know how to get the best out of them and to do those things that you just mentioned. So do I have to be an expert in all areas? And I work probably across all sectors.
I don't have to be an expert, but I need to know people.
Joe Miller: [00:10:24] Yeah, that's great. There was actually an exercise I got certified in from the John Maxwell team and my coaching, as well as another organization before that. But the ,at coach training, they actually used a juggling exercise. I don't know if you've heard of this or not before Gary, it's kind of the triad idea where you people put people in a group and a non-juggler would coach.
Another person on how to juggle it. It was very interesting, make observations, And so that drew a really stark line, I believe in terms of the difference between mentoring and coaching. So it's an interesting way of
exploring that. Yeah.
I wonder why don't we talk a little bit about.
You touched on this before this transition you made from essentially leading this organization and then handing it off to a younger couple. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit more about that process and maybe what came
Gary Wood: [00:11:29] after that. Yeah. I, we loved what we did. I loved what I did. I got to work with a lot of really great people had about 40 leaders that I was working with very intimately.
I mean, just a wonderful, wonderful atmosphere, Joe, and good things were happening. we're making a difference in, in lives. Having said that we worked with a lot of young men and women. Who came and worked alongside with us. I always looked at them as, working this way versus looking down on them.
And we became convinced that we were sitting on a goldmine of young men and women. And that there were things that we could do that they couldn't do. But there were also things that we were currently doing that they actually could do. And if we stepped aside, if we moved sideways and gave them some room, they could actually step into their purpose, the things that were really important for them to carry out.
So it was a hard decision. It really was because we had lots of energy. I had lots of vision. I mean, it was all still, it was all still firing there but just the sense that. They need a place. And if we give them a place that's just bringing good people forward and we'll go on and do something else.
I didn't know what the something else was at the time of course, but took the leap and here I am.
Joe Miller: [00:13:02] Yeah. I think that's, that's really interesting. I've. Yeah. I really can resonate with that a lot because I think ultimately in what you were doing was leadership. Right? So ultimately what you're trying to do is developing leaders around you.
I think that's part of being really successful as a leader is recognizing as you said, there's things that they could do recognizing people who work under you and what their talents are and trying to invest in them for the future benefit of the organization. Because you're not going to be there forever.
We would all love to continue forever. But as you said, doesn't make room for them and it doesn't allow them the developmental opportunities either. So I think sometimes the old authoritarian model can really get in the way. For overall success for an organization, because, it's so controlled by who's currently in that top seat, if you will.
Gary Wood: [00:13:56] And really, we don't pay attention to, if the organization could speak, if the ministry could speak, if the, whatever it is, could speak. What kind of leadership would it be asking for? And was I capable of providing that well on, into the future? Yes I believe I could have having said that you look back and you see the wisdom because there were so many things coming down the pike in terms of new regulations and cultural changes and all that sort of thing, that there was great benefit then in having.
You'll know what I mean? And having younger leadership come along, yes, there may be some, some wisdom that they needed to learn, but there was real benefit for the time in having those people in place.
Joe Miller: [00:14:48] Yeah. No, that's good. so what happened
Gary Wood: [00:14:50] When the step aside, right? That's the challenge today.
There was no, no one. Pushing me out. There was no one saying this is the deadline. I'd probably be there today if I still wish to be, but yeah. Yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:15:07] So, on that point then how did you sense that it was time to do that to step aside?
Gary Wood: [00:15:18] Yeah, I think there were a confluence of things coming together. the simple answer, that I mentioned before is we just became very conscious that there was this group of young men and women that goldmine that we referred to.
And, and they were just looking for a spot to serve, where could they serve? And we could actually provide a spot. So that's one element, but in our personal lives as well our own children are, they were growing up as well. They were entering a new phase and the work that we were in in camping work required like 24 seven, really.
I it was just, it was all consuming. And that's okay when your kids are at , uh, you know, at a certain age, they're with you, they're in on it. they're, a part of it, but then they get older as well and their needs change. And we realized they were important as well. Not only the several thousand others that we served every year, but they in our family were important.
And they became a factor in that as well, that fed into this also. So
Joe Miller: [00:16:33] yeah, of course. Yeah. boy, yeah. We don't want to just imply that everything is all about our careers. Yeah. Yeah. this kind of prompted in my mind to ask you about, I don't know if this is the right time or not, but ask you about your process.
You worked with me and I know you've continued to develop this process of the clarity model. And I think how that works together with the whole emphasis you've had on burnout and balance and those things in a way that kind of tied in, because I think, you know, we look holistically of our tire lives and, um, how are these things congruent?
these decisions are part of our overall fabric of our context.
Gary Wood: [00:17:17] Yeah. Yeah. they're all a piece of it. across all of my coaching career I've dealt with overload and burnout. I don't mean I've had overload and burnout, that's what I've dealt with. Right?
Intensity overload and burnout amongst leaders, executives, and professionals. And to make that connection back again, Joe, when I was in that camping organization, I sometimes say I spent 10 years running in the red. everything was going so great. I mean really good things were happening. But when I look back on it, if I would have spent time oftentimes chatting with you perhaps back then.
I might've been chatting with you as best I could in the present, but I was actually six months off in the future because I, because my head was in the that, you know, I needed to be ahead of the game in the work that we were doing. So I was always planning for something and it took a and that was very demanding.
And getting phone calls. some kid at 1130 at night decided that'd be a good time to have a chat with you. And, those sorts of things, it just became very wearing. and I found myself, that's why I say running in the red. I never would say I was on that. I experienced burnout, but I would say I experienced overload and it came to a culmination.
A couple of things happen. It came to a culmination. I was in a wholesaler picking up supplies one day and I began having panic attacks, never, ever had such a thing before. And I thought that huge building was just crowding in. I had to get out and phoned back to camp and said think I have to head for a hospital.
Joe Miller: [00:19:12] Hmm.
Gary Wood: [00:19:13] I thought I was having a heart attack.
Joe Miller: [00:19:14] Wow.
Gary Wood: [00:19:15] But being a man.
Joe Miller: [00:19:17] Yeah.
Gary Wood: [00:19:19] I drove right past the hospital. Yeah. And you get that story. Oh yeah. Yeah. And, but by the time, but time got near the, our town where the turnoff was, I knew. I have to get to a hospital. And that time I did drive to the hospital, kind of scared the daylights out of Alice, my wife and whatnot.
but there were a number of other little signs in there. And I mentioned this kind of coming back to clarity and momentum. It was at that time when I got that wakeup call and I'll mention one other thing. This is a very, if I can just very, of course this is very intimate. but I think it's of help.
I have a wonderful relationship with Alice. My wife, we always have, it has been just wonderful, really. And we were out on a rare little walk one time during that 10 years. and she said to me, we don't have much romance anymore. Do we.
And that just went like a sword right through my heart. Really? That was a killer that, and that was part of that kind of that wakeup call along with the panic attacks. And it was then that I began thinking there, I need some help in managing this organization and leading this organization though.
I'm the answer to everything. In this organization, when you work in a small Christian, nonprofit, you wear every hat and I cannot be the answer to everything any longer. And that's where I happened to start working on what now became the clarity model that is there. Some help for me. Is there some help in the Bible to help me?
Better manage this organization, better manage my leadership of it. Day in, day out in a way that I'm not going to experience burnout. Otherwise I'm cooked. Right. And that's where the rudimentary form of the clarity model began to develop right there. Then when I began, when we finished that I began working with leaders and executives around that became a framework to help them in a two-prong thing.
Number one, deal with the actual burnout that deal with what's actually taking place. But number two, give them that tool as well, give them some tools to better navigate their experience of leadership. And so that's the Genesis of it, Joe.
Joe Miller: [00:22:11] You used the word momentum. As you introduced this last section here? What do you mean by that in context to the clarity model?
Gary Wood: [00:22:20] Yeah. Clarity and momentum.
Joe Miller: [00:22:23] Momentum.
Gary Wood: [00:22:24] We refer to it now, right? Well, I think it's something all of us want. Right. We put in place, we try and make great plans and we try to have all of our ducks in a row. and then it comes down to execution, right?
And it's often in the execution, it's in the momentum, it's in the following through and making sure if this truly matters to us, that we actually achieve it. That's the idea of momentum hit the start button, keep going until we achieve whatever it is that we're attempting to achieve.
Joe Miller: [00:23:00] That's fascinating because I just had a discussion with one of my friends this week, actually about how a lot of the studies we engage in to improve ourselves Bible studies or professional development studies, they focus on the why and the what. But not so much the how
Gary Wood: [00:23:19] Yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:23:19] How to execute or how to use your terminology, how to ensure that we have momentum to propel us forward, to realize those intentions that we have. Yeah. So I love that momentum.
Gary Wood: [00:23:33] Yeah, and somehow I think Joe, It's you know, we think that the goal is sufficient enough to pull us forward.
Joe Miller: [00:23:42] Nope.
Gary Wood: [00:23:42] And it just, it just doesn't, it doesn't do it. It's that every day, day in, day out the step-by-step things that will move us toward that goal and better that instead of, and again, you'll know what I mean better in, instead of just toting the goal. And hoping that's going to be sufficient to pull me forward much better to be practical and say, step one, step two, step three, and just keep executing on those.
Joe Miller: [00:24:17] I wonder, I'm going to drop something in. You had the, what was it? The 52, 50, the book you wrote the 52 weeks?
Gary Wood: [00:24:26] The 52 Solutions For Those Who Need a 25 Hour Day.
Joe Miller: [00:24:31] There you go.
Gary Wood: [00:24:32] Yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:24:32] Was that intended as practical tactics or encouragement?
Gary Wood: [00:24:36] Yeah. And that's precisely what it is. And really moving forward successfully, and you can pull me up short on this, if I'm going astray. But really moving forward successfully, Joe is really a series of simple things. They're not hard things and we can save so much time. or we can, you know, maximize our time. We can be more effective by just paying attention to the basics.
And really that's what that book is. It's just 52 simple things that an individual can do with some coaching, some self-coaching that goes along with each one of those that a person can do to. Yeah, to be able to be more, more effective, more efficient in their day. So that came right out of that same experience.
Right. And, and then it was useful. I never wrote it down until I was a coach. And then I went to Starbucks as a matter of fact. And-
Joe Miller: [00:25:49] Where all great ideas of birthed.
Gary Wood: [00:25:51] Yeah. Yeah. And I pretty much wrote the whole thing. the rough of it in one day, I sat down early in the morning and just kept going. It just all spilled out of me.
but again, it, these transitions, right, it tied back to something that had happened previously and now it just needed to be brought out and set to paper. If you will.
Joe Miller: [00:26:18] That's wonderful. That's wonderful. So, okay. So we've gone through, we've sort of gone off a little bit. You have this transition, you hand, hand stuff off at some point you became a coach, right?
Yeah. You've been doing that for 22 years. Is that what she said? Something like that 23
Gary Wood: [00:26:37] April will be coming up 23 years.
Joe Miller: [00:26:39] 23. Yeah. So, what are you currently engaged in? Has there been a recent transition or are you, have you just stayed in what you've been doing for quite a while. I'm just wondering.
Gary Wood: [00:26:54] Yeah, I would say in terms of myself in terms of transition I have stayed in the same lane throughout my coaching, which has been dealing with overload and burnout.
Joe Miller: [00:27:06] Hmm.
Gary Wood: [00:27:06] There are those few times where I joke. I say, well, Joe, you know, I kind of got burned out on burnout.
I finally stopped emphasizing it for a while. and then you get a new head of steam and away you go again. So that and the clarity model now, the clarity and momentum, clarity, and momentum thinking framework has occupied. of late, a whole lot more time as well. So they're really those two things that are going on.
And I would say a recent transition is saying, Hmm, okay, could I take clarity and momentum training and turn that into online self-paced courses? In other words could a whole lot more people benefit from it. If I harness this in a little different way versus. We're going to run a course on this day, at this hour.
And if you can show up,
right. and I think a lot of times what's really helpful for people and I'm entertaining this idea too, is having a course be in the middle, So you, you have resources like these podcasts, then you have people signing up for these self-paced courses in different areas.
And then. If they need more help, they can always reach out and engage a coach to take them through more specific personalized. Yeah.
Yeah. And I make a difference, you know, we were talking about mentoring and coaching as well. The difference between training and coaching.
Joe Miller: [00:28:36] Yeah.
Gary Wood: [00:28:36] Also, so the training kind of leg of what I do, something quite specific, there's a lot more, passing along of information and tools and techniques and that sort of thing.
And then the application of that again, others who might wish to apply that even further than might engage something like coaching.
Joe Miller: [00:28:59] Right,
Gary Wood: [00:29:00] right.
Joe Miller: [00:29:00] I'm just wondering, at this current time, and I think there's been a steady, increased pressure on people at work. certain jobs, like the one you had, you were, had to be available 24, seven doctors.
There's these various professions that have that kind of set up if you will, for burnout and overload. but this last year with the pandemic and everyone having to be separated. From all of their relationships, their families and shelter in place. And a very interesting, the trend in telecommuting and remote work people have lost their boundaries.
I hear you hear a lot about zoom fatigue, right? Yeah. People can't get away from it. So even in, in jobs that tend to be more bound eight, you know, nine to five or I'm not on premise, so I'm off work now that's blurring even more. So I'm just wondering, is there been an uptick in demand for what you do or has it, has there been some kind of additional Challenges that you see people dealing with?
the biggest challenge for me, Joe is actually restraint because, and I don't want to sound diminishing in any way because burnout has become a popular term. Everybody's burned out. Now, and I don't mean to diminish that in any way. It's it is akin to what you're saying. I think fatigue.
Fatigue.
Great fatigue has set in a tiredness, but I wish to work with that subset of all of those people for whom they are at a critical juncture.
It brings them to a critical juncture in their life, their work, their leadership, and something needs to be paid attention to right now, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
Gary Wood: [00:31:08] And, hopefully kind of what I'd call just general, this general burnout. we pray that this year we're going to see some. a huge change in that. And I know because the people, the leaders, executives that I work with it's just, it's back to back zoom calls. It's dealing with crises. they've been one year now. many of them dealing with crises, healthcare executives that I work with their people are. now they've come through it.
Now they have people leaving. They have the ranks, diminishing people are fried. They're done. They want out.
Joe Miller: [00:31:44] Yeah. Yeah. So how do people, Gary, how do people, um, know, I mean, is there some, uh, leading indicators or some symptoms where they cross over this? Where is this boundary between just being. Fatigued and burnout.
How do you know that?
Gary Wood: [00:32:07] Oh boy.
Joe Miller: [00:32:09] I know that's probably a long conversation.
Gary Wood: [00:32:12] And tough one, because again, I don't want to diminish, something that anyone is feeling it's real. It is palpably real to them, but certainly burnout. There four, I would say four signals. The person might be on the edge of burnout.
So that would be a loss of physical energy or loss of energy, loss of physical, emotional, spiritual energy. Right. And the second would be a loss of involvement. So someone where they once were very involved, they were once out there around the water cooler, they were once out there with people. Now they've withdrawn.
Right more by themselves. This is what companies have to look for as well. Managers need to be very aware of this now as well. And there's a loss of effectiveness, number three. so really I was on top of my game. I was really, you know, man, I was in there, I was engaged. I was doing it and I just don't feel I have my edge anymore.
Joe Miller: [00:33:21] Um,
Gary Wood: [00:33:21] And then last one, number four would be a loss of a sense of health and wellbeing. oftentimes along with overload or, stress, as it becomes more severe, there would be maybe physical symptoms that go along. Little things, just a whole cumulation of little things that you can't really a doctor couldn't put their finger on a rash and a cold and all that.
Joe Miller: [00:33:49] Your whole immune system gets impacted, I think.
Gary Wood: [00:33:52] Yeah. Yeah. So those would be the signals, I think. And yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:33:57] You know, it's like a, maybe I'm don't mean to put words in your mouth, but a subconscious protection mechanism that kicks into place where people withdraw, they're trying to protect themselves in some way, and they may not know what's going on.
Gary Wood: [00:34:14] Yeah
Joe Miller: [00:34:14] They may, and somewhere in there too is probably depression. And yeah, so it's pretty, I guess what it becomes acute.
Gary Wood: [00:34:23] And it certainly can, and of course I'm not a. I'm not a therapist or something or someone depression that would be another profession, professional that they might require.
So that's the point the individual that I'm looking to be able to be of service of that, I know that I can be of service. They're on that teetering edge. They know they're overloaded. They know that they have these pressures playing in upon them. And they're saying I could really benefit from someone right now helping me set some, helping me deal number one, with what I'm experiencing, but number two, put some new strategies and structures in place to move ahead in a much better way personally, with my team and my whole organization.
Joe Miller: [00:35:14] Well, I can't think of a more relevant time right now. I don't know if relevant is the right word. But I know a lot of people and I don't know where they fall. Exactly. But people feel very heavy about what, what has been going on in their work and home life because of the extra challenges presented by the pandemic and the pivots that companies have had to make.
I facilitate a group of life science CIOs, and this month our call, our zoom call, there's about 30 of them, uh, these CIOs this month we're going to focus just specifically on return to work. And all of them had to pivot quickly to have high percentage of their workforce be remote.
Gary Wood: [00:35:58] Yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:35:59] Some jobs just have to be manufacturing. They just have to be on site or quality. They have to be onsite, but huge swaths of their employee base been working remote and the companies are trying to figure out as hopefully the vaccine has an impact. Hopefully herd immunity kicks in, what are they going to do then? If people want to come back is there going to be a hybrid model? And so they're trying to sort through that. and they've been very concerned. You touched on this, about their employees in the company in general, these it executives, but also their teams things have really pivoted and shifted and this has been a concern.
Yeah.
Gary Wood: [00:36:43] Yeah. Sure. And that's again where. we're dealing with people. and there's a, there is a huge challenge coming because some will be eager. Get me back in that office or get me back in that workplace. others will be, Oh, I don't know. I don't feel comfortable.
Joe Miller: [00:37:03] Right.
Gary Wood: [00:37:03] So, we have this, there isn't a consistency just for the simple fact that we have people and that's a big challenge. for the leaders of those workforces.
Joe Miller: [00:37:13] Yeah. There's a lot of uncertainty, and, we talk about the science and making wise decisions based upon the science, but science is not a static thing.
I mean, we were evolving in our understanding. And so there are people in the middle of this and, and you're absolutely right. It's not a, it's not a clear cut kind of thing, which makes, puts a lot of pressure on the leaders.
Gary Wood: [00:37:33] Right. I think we've been a year as well. You know, we've, we're now a year in a couple of days here.
I'm looking at my calendar now a couple of days here, we shut down just a few more days from now. And there's been a lot of talk about VUCA, right? That acronym, volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity. And for some time since I first heard that I've always felt there was a missing term and that's a D at the end of it.
And it's disconnectedness. So increasingly. People are feeling disconnected from other people. This already was on this already was underway before a pandemic hit. So you add one year of isolation or dis or a whole new form of disconnectedness, to your personal psyche, repertoire and whatnot.
It makes it that much more. Well, I don't know what it makes it. What does that mean? For people coming back together a year from now, some will be fine. So, wow. This is wonderful. Nice to see you again, Joe, right in the face to face. Um, but for others, yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:38:49] We're all different,
Gary Wood: [00:38:50] Yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:38:51] We're all made differently.
And so how we've responded to our unique pressures in our own lives, it's all different. So it's very hard to predict
Gary Wood: [00:39:01] How do we connect people?
Joe Miller: [00:39:03] Yeah.
Gary Wood: [00:39:03] We connect people in a way that we're not forcing them to do something, but we're connecting them the way that it's a healthy integration back into well I was going to say normal, but.
Whatever that's going to be.
Joe Miller: [00:39:18] Yeah, exactly. Hey Gary, let's, uh, let's kind of pivot now and start talking about lessons learned, I always liked at the end of these interviews to ask the question to try to draw out in terms of transitions, in terms of, this podcast, trying to be a resource and service to individuals to navigate knowing if a transition is needed to be in touch with their own personal wiring, calling a purpose sense of purpose, what have you, and how to use your words employ momentum to be effective moving forward in and stepping out into a transition our new direction.
So I'm just wondering as you look back over your experiences. And discovery and learnings. What kind of advice would you give? Do you give in terms of dealing with transitions and some of the transitions can be forced on us and some of them of course chosen.
Gary Wood: [00:40:18] Um. And I think that's the difference. So I guess my first big, early transition would have been us giving up our careers to move up where we were. So our peers were on a trajectory. and we were going on a different trajectory at that point in time because we felt something was important. So I think the first thing would be out of my experience that there are times you just need to step out.
Joe Miller: [00:40:47] Yeah.
Gary Wood: [00:40:48] It's stepping out into the unknown. You don't know what might happen, but the adventure of life calls you out.
Joe Miller: [00:40:56] It does.
Gary Wood: [00:40:57] And you just, you go for it. you go for it with Gusto and only time will tell when you look back and we look back on that and say that we would do exactly the same thing all over again.
It had its challenges, but it was worth it. So that was very intentional, I would say. And you just go for it. And the second big transition for us, Joe, was that knock on the door when the founder of this organization comes in. It hadn't even been on our radar screen, not at all and says we believe you are the person to take over the organization and to run this hadn't even dreamt of it at all.
And, but knew that night. Yes. That we will do this. So I guess the lesson there is sometimes something presents itself and again, that great adventure of life, you just got to grab a hold of it. Yeah. It's there. it's not there forever. It's there for a moment of time and. With all the wisdom that you can muster, you make a decision, you grab a hold of it and you go with it and looking back on that, would we do it again?
We'd do the very same thing all over, all over again. And then I think the third transition for us, which would have been that example we're talking about of recognizing that were these young men and women, and then transitioning out of that organization, finding myself, moving into this new profession called coaching.
Maybe there it's that sometime there is a more, I don't want to say thoughtful. There's a, there's maybe a longer process that's taking place. All of that probably took place over, over a year and a half, right. Where you're kind of thinking about it. You're weighing the options. You're, you know, whatever it might be.
And then you reach a decision that actually is going to impact the rest of your life and impact a lot of other lives as well. And again, well, in that great adventure of life, you. You follow through with it?
Joe Miller: [00:43:21] Yeah. In a certain point, you have to step out into the unknown.
Gary Wood: [00:43:27] Yup.
Joe Miller: [00:43:28] There is a process there though.
I really resonate with this. there is a process where you have to evaluate what's in front of you, whether that is a realization that there's something pulling you forward, with the coaching Framework of, are you moving towards something or are you moving away from something? So there's this process where maybe it's more subtle where you're being,
your heart is pulling you forward, or you're seeing a need you're testing that you're reading scripture, you're talking to loved ones about possibilities, and that can take a very long time. Or there's this other scenario like you, it may present itself where someone comes to you, with a challenge. Take this up. I believe this is for you. But in both of those, in my experience, there has to be a sense of what am I all about?
Gary Wood: [00:44:17] Hmm.
Joe Miller: [00:44:17] I have to understand what are my gifts? What is, what does God, or, what has been given to me that I need to bring into this world. and is this congruent with either my innate sense of pull or this challenge that's presented in front?
Gary Wood: [00:44:32] Yeah. Yeah. and I mean to that, I would respond that if what I'm looking to do. If what is presented to me, isn't in line with who I am.
Joe Miller: [00:44:46] Right.
Gary Wood: [00:44:47] Right. My values, my preferences, my beliefs, um, then it's going to, I'm going to be out of sync going down that path. If it is in alignment, then it's, we're in sync.
Right. And, and we just say, yes, I'm exactly where I need to be. And you can then it becomes just a happy, it doesn't mean easy, but it becomes a happy journey.
Joe Miller: [00:45:15] Yeah. Now I would say we would be a little bit remiss if we didn't talk about the situation where a change has been thrust on an individual, especially in light of this last year where there's been layoffs, there's been you know companies and whole industries have been decimated where people have found themselves essentially, on the street, wondering what's next and sometimes your desires for what you want to do, need to take a back stage to what you have to do in order to provide for your family or for yourself. it's okay.
At times to say, I'm not suggesting you do anything unethical, but it's okay at times to say, well, this isn't really, what I see is on my path ultimately, and what I want to do, but I need to do this for now. And to be kind to ourselves, to be gracious to ourselves to say, this is okay for now.
Gary Wood: [00:46:14] Yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:46:15] With that scenario where all of a sudden something externally, what you cannot control has happened.
Gary Wood: [00:46:21] Yeah. Well, maybe I'll sound a little harsh. I don't know.
Joe Miller: [00:46:26] Go ahead.
Gary Wood: [00:46:27] Cut me off. So it's all well and good. In one sense, saying I'm only going to do this kind of work and that's all it is, but reality dictates you may need to put bread on the table. Yeah. and. And you and I, and everyone else, we need to be willing sometimes just to be flexible and say, yeah, this may be a temporary detour in, you know, on the road, we'll get back on, um, somewhere down the road, but for now, this is what we need to do.
And comes under that category. You just got to do what you got to do. Why? Well, because for the welfare of your family or, you just need to do it.
Joe Miller: [00:47:13] Yeah.
Gary Wood: [00:47:14] It's in those tough detours that we learn a lot about ourselves. Maybe the most it's in tough stuff where we really learn about ourselves.
And we perhaps even find new paths that sometimes. Might even be better than the original path. I don't want really, you know, the it stuff, not taking away from that.
Joe Miller: [00:47:40] That really speaks to me because that's been my journey. I think that, I started in one career as a scientist and then after eight or nine years I moved to another career heading up it, getting into IT through automation of laboratories and I was on that run an IT leadership for a long time. And it was lucrative. And I had the need to put food on the table, but I had the need to put my kids through college. Cashflow, some things right. That I, but I had a sense that developed over years and years that I really wasn't completely fulfilled with that.
And that's why, I mean, what I did was the coaching thing on the side.
Gary Wood: [00:48:24] Yeah.
Joe Miller: [00:48:25] For a while. And I think that it was a longer journey. So sometimes these things, these transitions, are sharp spikes or big inflection points, and sometimes they're sort of gradual and a little bit more calculated.
I think in hindsight for me, I should have moved into what I'm currently doing now sooner, but that's okay. There was a period when I was very cognitive that, I was kind of done with it. Some of the people that worked with me probably would agree with that. He's been done for a while. But anyway, I think that those are great lessons.
I don't know if you have any closing thoughts, Gary.
Gary Wood: [00:49:07] Well, it would just be this and I use this in the clarity and momentum thinking. As well, the outcomes are really important. but outcomes are about two things. So we might have a very objective outcome, right? And we need to pay attention to that.
That might be the work that you were doing, paying attention to that outcome, being the best that you can at achieving those things for the company that you worked for. But outcomes also is about satisfying an internal compass. And many times we work to the benefit of one, working on some external objective, but we don't feed what is important to the internal compass.
And that's why, perhaps for years you may be thinking my... There's just something more, there's something not satisfying me here. Hey, I'm doing great here, but is that all there is, and yeah. Take care of the internal compass. Then when you got those two in line, you said, ah, okay.
Joe Miller: [00:50:08] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
And I do think that, there's, it's, I referred to this before, it's this friction and over time it can become more and more pronounced. Yeah. And so that's how you, I think you sense it reaches a culmination where you say okay. I need to pay attention to something here and explore this.
And I think that's where it really helps to get engaged with someone else to walk side, side to side with you on, on that. And coaching is great for that. Yeah. Great. For that
Gary Wood: [00:50:39] It really is.
Joe Miller: [00:50:41] Gary, where, um, how can people reach you? if they're interested in engaging with you or learning more about what you do.
And by the way, I will put stuff in the show notes. I will put references and links in the show notes, but just from your own mouth and heart.
Gary Wood: [00:51:00] Yeah. Well, best way is head to my website. Uh, gewood.com.
Joe Miller: [00:51:09] Great.
Gary Wood: [00:51:10] And you can contact me there and you can check me out.
Joe Miller: [00:51:16] And I know that it's just been great.
Gary, I know that we could talk for hours more, but all good things have to come to a close. And I do encourage folks to reach out to Gary. I couldn't endorse him any higher for what he's done for me in my life and career. So please do avail yourself of Gary if you have the need. And Gary, once again, thank you for being on Titans of Transition Podcast.
Gary Wood: [00:51:41] Hey, Joe, it's been fun.
Joe Miller: [00:51:44] It certainly has.
Gary Wood: [00:51:46] Thank you, Joe.