Erin Loback - Dartmouth

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Deputy District Attorney Erin Loback, currently assigned to resolve post-conviction matters, has prosecuted, tried and resolved criminal matters of every sort in Alameda County. She is the mother of twin girls, committed to fair and competent prosecution, enjoys cooking, TV, and just walking by herself listening to podcasts. At college (where she avoided double secret probation), she edited the nation's oldest college newspaper, The Dartmouth.

Erin Loback
Alameda County District Attorney's Office
510.272.6222

 Louis Goodman
 www.louisgoodman.com
louisgoodman2010@gmail.com
510.582.9090
 
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Louis Goodman
www.louisgoodman.com
https://www.lovethylawyer.com/
510.582.9090
Music: Joel Katz, Seaside Recording, Maui
Tech: Bryan Matheson, Skyline Studios, Oakland
Audiograms: Paul Robert

louis@lovethylawyer.com

Transcript

Erin Loback / Louis Goodman – Podcast Transcript

[00:00:00] Louis Goodman: Hello, and welcome to Love Thy Lawyer. Where we talk to real lawyers about their lives in and out of the practice of law, how they got to be lawyers and what their experience has been. I'm Louis Goodman, the host of the show, and yes, I'm a lawyer. Nobody's perfect. She has tried every type of criminal case under the sun, felonies, misdemeanors, juvenile cases.

In addition to countless preliminary hearings, she's also been assigned to white collar specialty cases, including insurance, medical, and real estate fraud. In her current assignment, she is dealing with post-conviction reviews, including DA discretion, re sentencing and parole hearings. She has published articles for the California District Attorneys Association and presented at CDA Fraud [00:01:00] Prosecution Conferences.

And perhaps most importantly, she is a part-time fifth grade schoolteacher. Erin Loback welcome to Love Thy Lawyer. 

Erin Loback: Thank you for having me Louis. 

Louis Goodman: Well, it's great to have you.   Always interested in talking to someone who is in court and who tries cases and in your case, you're doing that from the prosecution side.

Where exactly are you located right now? 

Erin Loback: Right now I am at home in San Francisco where I've been working for about seven months now. 

Louis Goodman: So pretty much you've been working from home rather than from going into the DA's office. 

Erin Loback: I have. And you know, that includes going to court from home to the BlueJeans Remote Court System that has set up is actually working pretty well.

And because the kinds of cases I handle, we usually don't have witnesses that are coming in. It's just [00:02:00] attorneys and the judges.   If we don't have a waiver of the defendant's appearance, they're also appearing from video either from prison or from the jails. We're able to do it all over the computer, which I never, ever could have imagined would be the case.

Louis Goodman: Yeah. I've found it's working out pretty well, too. A lot better than I thought it would ever work. I'm  frankly kind of enjoying it. And I think going forward the courts and your office, my colleagues, I think really need to think about using more of this kind of technology for court appearances that don't require litigation.

Erin Loback: Yeah, it's also a lot more efficient. I mean, I just feel like my days used to be spent waiting around in court in the morning for my case to get called. And, you know, sometimes that's the good kind of waiting around where you're sitting in chambers with other attorneys and the judge, and those were some of my favorite parts of the day, but there also is just the waiting around [00:03:00] when you're really just sitting there waiting, and it's really efficient on the computer. There is no sitting around and waiting. And so what used to be, you know, getting three cases called would take an hour, an hour and a half. Sometimes I'm done in a half an hour. So while I miss the comradery part of it, it's actually really efficient.

Louis Goodman: Yeah. I agree.  So where did you grow up? 

Erin Loback: I grew up in Scottsdale, Arizona. 

Louis Goodman: Where'd you go to school? 

Erin Loback: I went to Middle School and High School at a little school called Phoenix Country Day School. 

Louis Goodman: How was that experience academically?

Erin Loback: It was absolutely outstanding. I had amazing teachers. I felt like I was very academically well-prepared for college.

Louis Goodman: When you left Phoenix Country Day, where'd you go to college? 

Erin Loback: I went to Dartmouth in Hanover, New Hampshire. 

Louis Goodman: Well, that's certainly a difference in weather if nothing else. 

Erin Loback: Yes, definitely. 

[00:04:00] Louis Goodman: What did you think about going to Dartmouth? I mean, being that far away and also being in a real winter? 

Erin Loback: No, I really loved it.

I wanted a college experience. That was really different from what I'd already had. I think having the winter you know, certainly added to that, but I really wanted to go to school at a small place where everyone stayed on campus. I wasn't looking for a city experience in college. I wanted like a small college town feel and Dartmouth really, really provided that.

Louis Goodman: Yeah. I mean, Dartmouth is really classic. Do you know what Alpha Delta Phi is? Why don't you tell my listeners without the Alpha Delta Phi is? 

Erin Loback: Well, that's a fraternity. I think there are some who would say the fraternity in the movie animal house was based  on that fraternity. It was, you know, when I [00:05:00] was there, the Greek life was still really big, really big.

I don't think it's changed. I think it's not quite such a focus, but that whether you were in a house or not, that's what everyone did on the weekend. 

Louis Goodman: Dartmouth's known as the Ivy League Party School. 

Erin Loback: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, right.

Louis Goodman: So is that just because of you when you were there or were there other people involved in partying?

Erin Loback: No, it's not just because of me. I've been through phases with that, you know, that some years more and more into it than, than others. And I was in a sorority. I wasn't in a national sorority. Dartmouth had its own local sororities, really just the same fraternity experience except for the women. But I also, my big thing in college was the newspaper.

And that almost felt like its own little subculture, own little of fraternity there. And so that kind of became my social life, focus to the newspaper. The Dartmouth.

Louis Goodman: [00:06:00] Is that right? 

Erin Loback: That's right. America's oldest daily college newspaper. 

Louis Goodman: Yeah. So tell me about being the Editor in Chief of America's oldest college newspaper. 

Erin Loback: It was so fun. It was just, I looked back at the schedule that I kept during those years. And I don't know how I did it. I mean, it was the daily newspaper. We sent it off to the press. We actually had this man named Don who came from the printing press. And he would show up about 1:00 in the morning and that's, as we were starting to wrap things up a good night, we would be done by 1:30.   On a bad night it would be 2:30 or 3:00, and Don would be getting mad at us. And you know, then you get up the next morning, everyone looks around campus. Everyone's reading the paper that you put together the night before and go to class, find some time to get some work done, but. [00:07:00] really it starts, you know, it starts up right again, the next morning. The year that I was there was let's see, we had an online edition of the paper.

It certainly wasn't daily. I think we updated it weekly. So we were still a paper newspaper. 

Louis Goodman: Now, in addition to the newspaper, you had a double major. So you were pretty serious in your academics as well. 

Erin Loback: Yeah. You know, I was at Spanish Literature and a Neuro-Psychology major and the way that that happened was I was taking a lot of classes in Spanish.  I came in speaking pretty well already. And then I did a semester abroad in Spain and realized that I only had a couple classes left to actually have a double major. So yeah. That's how that came about and the Neuropsychology came about, because I just, I couldn't find one subject where I could take enough classes that interested me.

Louis Goodman:    When did you start thinking about becoming a lawyer? 

[00:08:00] Erin Loback: High School mock trial. 

Louis Goodman:  Really?

Erin Loback:   Yeah. I, I knew from that early on, it was such a fun experience.  It was a little bit different than the way they do it out here in California,  but similar and it alternated one year we'd have a criminal case and the next year we'd have a civil case.

And the two years of my four years in high school, where we had a criminal case, I just was so excited by it wanted to be on the prosecution side and even, you know, through all my years  of college, I knew that I wanted to go to Law School and that's what I wanted to do. And then when I got to Hastings, I took a year off in between college and law school and just did various temp jobs that only further reinforced my desire to go to Law School. But once I got to Law School, that was in the fall of 2000, so there were a lot of people that I went to school with that had tried some sort [00:09:00] of .com job and that hadn't gotten anywhere. And now they were in Law School. And I was just amazed that it was months before I met anybody else who was interested in criminal law, out of, you know, 400 something people in my class.

And  I just was so focused on the idea of criminal law that I didn't even really think about all the other things that lawyers do and that most lawyers don't practice in this area. 

Louis Goodman: Yeah. I think that, you know, criminal law is kind of like,  what people think of like, yeah, this is what lawyers do they go to court.

They put on cases, it's like Law and Order or Perry Mason or something, but you know, most lawyers are, you know, they do transactional work, they do civil work. They  advise companies, you know, really very few lawyers do the kind of work that we do. 

Erin Loback: Yeah. 

Louis Goodman: So when you went to Hastings, how did you decide that Hastings was where you wanted to go?

Or how did you decide to apply to schools in California? 

Erin Loback: So I [00:10:00] had moved out here after college with an ex-boyfriend who had a finance job in San Francisco. And so I applied to local schools here, got into Hastings and I really loved it. It was a  very good fit for me. It felt like that social High School experience I never had because I went to a small school and this felt like High School.

Erin Loback: It's not like high school. There was a, you know, there's a big locker room and you know, the common areas where everyone hangs out and I was going out all the time and it just was probably the social highlight of my life. 

Louis Goodman: I know I always call it Hastings High. Because, I mean, to me, it really reminded me of my high school.

You know, like you say, you have a locker in the basement, you know, and you, you go home, but you come to school and you see your friends. It was like high school. 

[00:11:00] Erin Loback: Yeah. I'm glad to hear that, that someone else has the same idea as me. 

Louis Goodman: Yeah. I liked it too. I really liked Hastings. 

Erin Loback: Yeah, I loved it. I just loved being in school.

I would go if there were something I wanted; I could think of that I wanted to study. I would go back to school in a heartbeat. I love taking tests. I love studying. I like being in class and raising my hand when I know the answer. I mean, this probably doesn't surprise many people who know me  that's kind of my personality, but I loved every part of Law School.

And,  I loved the being in school part. 

Louis Goodman: Yeah.  I get that and  I can see that with you as well. So what was your first job out of Law School?

Erin Loback: Working with the Alameda County DA's Office. I did their Summer Law Clerk Program. So right at the very beginning of my second year of Law School, I applied, well, actually I've got to back [00:12:00] up just a little bit more.

So the summer after my first year of Law School, I sent out letters to, I think it's 80. I think there are 80 judges, 80 something judges in the City of San Francisco between Superior Court, Appellate Courts, Supreme Court, Federal Court. I sent out a letter to every single Judge trying to find some sort of summer job unpaid, just something to do, because I thought that being in the courts would be a great experience.

And I got a call. One day from someone named Kevin Ryan, who was then a Superior Court Judge of San Francisco. After that became the US Attorney for the Northern District of California, before that had been an Alameda County DA. And he said to me, I see you went to Dartmouth. I went to Dartmouth.   Come on in and talk to my Clerk and let's figure out something for you to do this summer.

Yeah. So he hired me. I had a [00:13:00] job in the Hall of Justice. I had keys to the back hall every morning. He would tell me what was happening in which courtroom and what was interesting to go watch. The only actual work I did all summer was help write a jury instruction. And I was just a Professional Court Watcher all summer and it was amazing.

But so then when I applied to the Alameda County DA's Office, I had worked for him, who had previously been in the office, so that was my in, so I spent the next summer at the Alameda County DA's Office and then they hired me after I graduated. And it's the only real job I've ever had. 

Louis Goodman: Yeah.

You know, that's the only real job I've ever had either working at the outlet. 

Erin Loback: Right. Right. Now you don't have a real job. 

Louis Goodman: No, this isn't really, I mean, I, you know, working for yourself is working for yourself. It's not really a real job in any sense of the word.  I don't think I've never thought of it that way.

Yeah. I mean,  it's real work, but it's not a real job. 

Erin Loback: Yeah. Do you remember that time, several years ago when we had [00:14:00] a case together, I think it might've been a Medical Fraud case and I came into your office so we could meet and talk about it. And you ended up teaching me about the business aspect of running your own law office and the type of accounting you have to keep.

And you were showing me ledgers and things. It was fascinating. 

Louis Goodman: That's probably telling you never to leave the DA's office at the same time.

Erin Loback: I think that's what I was left with. Like, oh, that seems like a lot of work. 

Louis Goodman: Yeah, it is. So tell me about your experience as a Deputy DA?  How long have you been there now?

Erin Loback: Going on 17 years. 

Louis Goodman: Wow. Wow. That's great. 

Erin Loback: Yeah. 

Louis Goodman: So when you first got there, how did that feel? How did that go? 

Erin Loback: When I first started, it was right in a period of financial downturn, and I think it had been announced to the whole office, we're not hiring anyone this year. And then they did end up hiring a few of the former summer law clerks.

And the day that [00:15:00] my then office made a nice, showed up, we were told to go to the Hayward Courthouse. We get there. No one's expecting us. There's no office for us. And then it turns out the person who was our supervisor was on vacation. So that first day we ended up covering Department 501, the Misdemeanor Calendar Court there, without a clue what was going on, you know, that's one of those cases, there's like 50 cases of one of those calendars.

There's like 50 cases on a day and it's arraignments and pretrials and pleas.   We were just thrown right in.   There were a couple of older Public Defenders who took us under their wing and explained what was going on and what was happening. But I felt like we were just kind of thrown right in.

Louis Goodman: Yeah. That sounds like classic Alameda County from top to bottom. 

Erin Loback: Yes. 

Louis Goodman: The DA's [00:16:00] office for 17 years. So obviously there's things that you really like about being a DA, about being a lawyer. What  do you really like about  your career and your job? 

Erin Loback: I think the thing that I like the most about it right now is something that would have never been in my mind at the time that I took it, or when I look back at this young woman who just wanted to be a Prosecutor. And I think that was because I kind of saw things in a black and white way and I myself was a rule follower. And now the thing I love the most about it is working in an office that has embraced criminal justice reform.

And I feel like I am in a position right now, especially in my current assignment where I am helping to make changes from within, I feel very good about the work I'm doing every day. 

Louis Goodman: Well, can you be a little more specific about the work that you're doing these days? 

Erin Loback: Yes. So  in our [00:17:00] post-conviction review team, and so there are a couple of different types of cases that I handle the first selling the murder re-sentencings.

So they changed the law almost two years ago now. And essentially redefined what qualifies as murder in the State of California. And they opened it up so that anyone previously convicted under one of these theories of murder that has no law or a valid theory of murder, they can petition to the court, ask that their case be reviewed and petition eventually be sentenced to something else.

And so we've had almost 300 of those petitions come in. You know, there have been many of them that came through that getaway driver in a robbery who didn't even know that their co-defendant was armed, who then shoots and kills someone well under the old law. That under the old felony murder rule, that person was not only on the hook for the robbery, they were on the hook for a murder that they could have never foreseen and didn't contribute to.

It feels very good to see [00:18:00] these people come forward in court,  be re-sentenced to robbery and released from prison. The other type of re-sentencing that I do are discretionary ones under yet another new law that allows the District Attorney to review old cases and bring them to the court and ask the court to re-sentence someone in the interest of justice.

So this comes into play, for example, old three strikes cases.   Like the best defense attorney could have all my cases are in front of the same Judge. And a lot of them have been with the same Public Defender, who I  would argue was probably the nicest, smartest, most reasonable person in their entire office.

And when we sit around and talk about these cases and are doing what seems like the fair and right thing every day, it just feels, it feels really good. It feels like we're all on the same team. It doesn't always have to be an adversarial [00:19:00] process. 

Louis Goodman: Yeah. So it's kind of collaborative, I think you and I would agree.

And we've talked about this before, you know, just kind of informally that a lot of the Criminal Justice System could move in that direction effectively and with perhaps better results all around. 

Erin Loback: Yes. I definitely agree with that. 

Louis Goodman: Would you recommend,  Law, Criminal Prosecution as a career choice to somebody coming out of college?

Erin Loback: I would, but  I would only do so for the right person. I don't know that I would recommend it for someone who had the mindset that I did going in, which was, there's a right side of it and there's a wrong side of it. And the prosecutors on the right side, they wear the white hat. They always tell the truth and the defense attorneys, you can't believe them and, and it's this adversarial system. I think someone coming in with that mindset, I would [00:20:00] discourage it because I don't think that's the right way  to think about things. But I do think that I would recommend the world of criminal law and specifically prosecution for you know, someone  who's interested and wants to help make change in how we treat people who have been accused of crimes, but at the same time, protecting the public  and preserving the rights of victims.  The system with certain preexisting notions, and then as we're in it for a while those things tend to change

Louis Goodman:  Yeah, do you think that the legal system is fair? 

Erin Loback: I think I look at other States and I think maybe not so much, but I had a very hard time saying here in Alameda County where we work that it's not fair. I think that there are a lot of people trying very hard to make it fair.

Louis Goodman: I know that you've written some articles for the [00:21:00] California District Attorneys Association Publications. Can you just tell us a little bit about that? 

Erin Loback: I can.   Unfortunately, I became a little bit of an expert in the area of Squatters Law several years ago when I handled a bunch of cases that had to do with that and this is, you know, more than just the typical trespassing cases, but trespassers who refuse to leave and try to stake a legal claim to someone else's house. A lot of times that people that are engaged in that activity, or they're actually trying to adversely possess the house. I learned more than I probably cared to know about it.

Louis Goodman: Part-time fifth grade schoolteacher. And I assume that's because you have some children who are involved in learning these days on the fifth-grade level. 

Erin Loback: That is correct. I have fifth grade twins who are [00:22:00] remotely learning. They're here at home. That's one of the beautiful things about working from home.

Do you know, we've got Court at certain set times throughout the day, and then the rest of my work, I do a lot of writing, a lot of research and that can happen at any time. So I've kind of adjusted my work schedule to have a chunk of time in the middle of the day. We've  just learned all the state capitals and are doing a science lesson about the earth and it's positioned in space.

So it's, but you know,  it's been really nice to have the extra time with my kids. 

Louis Goodman: How's the computer experience going for your kids? 

Erin Loback: Mostly okay.  The teachers have done a pretty good job of making the work that they're doing meaningful and not just, here's a math worksheet, since we're not in class, go do this, but you know, they obviously miss being in school very very much. They'd go to the park every afternoon [00:23:00] where they run around outside. So there was still social and seeing people, but we're making it work. 

Louis Goodman: What sort of recreational pursuits to you have  you to sort of work-life balance things. What sort of things do you, or you and your family do? 

Erin Loback: I really like to cook.  I really like to watch television and I really like to go on long walks and I like to do all of those things by myself. I enjoy my kids, you know, like to help out in the kitchen sometimes. And that's really fun, but that's my time to myself. I like to listen to podcasts and I wear headphones and nobody bothers me.

And I go for, you know, a three mile walk pretty much every day. And that brings me great enjoyment. When  I'm at work, I enjoy taking a break at lunchtime to walk around Lake Merritt, right outside the Courthouse. 

Louis Goodman: What if you came into some real money, few [00:24:00] billion dollars? What, if anything, would you change in the way you live your life?

Erin Loback: I don't know that much would change in the way I live my life. But I would want to use that money,  I mean,  I'd probably get a new roof right away and do some repairs around the house and probably get a new car. Cause I've been driving the same one for 10 years.  Then I think I'd want to use it for a big, like a big social experiment, like an Andrew Yang type universal, basic income and do an actual, as best as possible when, you know, it's hard when you're using people as your subjects, but really try to see  if that leads to better outcomes than the way we're doing things. 

Louis Goodman: Let's say you had a magic wand and there was one thing in the world that you could change legal world or otherwise.  Anything. What would that be? 

Erin Loback: That's a tough one, magic wand.   I don't know that this is [00:25:00] actually fixable with a magic wand. But I think I would make every kid come to school, ready to learn. You know what I remember when I met you, can I tell you the story of when I met you? 

Louis Goodman: Yeah. 

Erin Loback: It was in Department 501, right at the beginning.  I was a brand-new DA.   That's you know the misdemeanor calendar court. And you had a case, probably a DUI or something. You came up and sat down next to me and you introduced yourself and you said, I used to be a DA. And I'd already learned that flick out all the Defense Attorneys used to be a DA, but you told me I used to be a DA.

And then you said, let me give you a piece of advice. If you're ever pulled over by the cops for a DUI, take your DA business card, lick it, and stick it on your forehead. So the cop sees it immediately when he comes to your window. And I just remember thinking, first of all, you know, I'm [00:26:00] such a rule follower, like, but that would never happen because I would never be driving drunk and I would never happen to me.

And I just remember saying, yeah, well, they haven't given me business cards yet because  I think it was a year before I had business cards on the office, but that was the only thing I could think to say. Cause I was just appalled by that, but it made you memorable and then I've enjoyed working with any opportunity I get to see you in court.

Louis Goodman: Well, that actually is a true story that some DA who was before me in the office actually did on the Bay Bridge. That's where that story comes from. 

Louis Goodman: I'm glad you've never had to face that situation. Erin Loback,  thank you so much for joining me today on Love Thy Lawyer. I've really enjoyed talking to you and I hope to see you soon when we can get the courts open again. 

Erin Loback: It was great talking to you today, Louis, and yeah, I hope to see [00:27:00] you in person sometime soon. 

Louis Goodman: That’s it for today's episode of Love Thy Lawyer.   Many thanks to my guests who contribute their time and wisdom and make the show possible. Thanks as always to Joel Katz for music, Bryan Matheson for technical support and Tracey Harvey.   I'm Louis Goodman.

Erin Loback: Yeah, cooking, eating the thing I miss the most about my old life pre COVID is restaurants. I've been very lucky that I appreciate good food. My family appreciates good food. My kids will eat virtually anything and love trying new things.