Hon. Roz Silvaggio (ACBA) - PD's Office to the Bench

lovethylawyer.com

A transcript of this podcast is easily available atlovethylawyer.com.

Go tohttps://www.lovethylawyer.com/blog for transcripts.

In collaboration with theAlameda County Bar Association, Love Thy Lawyer presents an interview with:

Hon. Roz Silvaggio

Judge Rozlynn Silvaggio is a newly appointed judge on the Alameda County Superior Court bench, after serving as a Public Defender for two decades across Alameda, Contra Costa, Los Angeles, and San Francisco counties. Throughout her career, she handled a wide range of criminal cases, from misdemeanors to serious felonies, and became known for her commitment to advocacy and fairness. Her recent transition to the bench marks a full-circle moment in her career, with her first day as a Public Defender coinciding almost exactly twenty years before her judicial appointment. In this conversation, Judge Silvaggio shares her perspective on managing one of the busiest misdemeanor departments in Oakland, the challenges of keeping cases moving efficiently, and the importance of empathy and presence in the courtroom. She also reflects on fairness in the legal system, the value of focusing on individual clients, and how judges can bring curiosity and humility to their work. Tune in to hear Judge Silvaggio’s candid insights into the courtroom, her advice for new lawyers and aspiring public defenders, and her vision for a more just and responsive legal system. 

Alameda County Bar Association

The Alameda County Bar Association (ACBA) is a professional membership association for lawyers and other members of the legal profession. The ACBA provides access to ongoing legal education; and promotes diversity and civil rights in the Alameda County legal community. Our mission is to promote excellence in the legal profession and to facilitate equal access to justice.

Louis Goodman
www.louisgoodman.com
https://www.lovethylawyer.com/
510.582.9090
Music: Joel Katz, Seaside Recording, Maui
Tech: Bryan Matheson, Skyline Studios, Oakland
Audiograms: Paul Robert

louis@lovethylawyer.com

Transcript

Louis Goodman / Hon. Roz Silvaggio - Transcript

[00:00:00] Louis Goodman: Welcome to the Alameda County Bar Association and Love Thy Lawyer podcast. Today we welcome the Honorable Rozlynn Silvaggio to the podcast. She has recently been appointed to the Alameda County Superior Court bench. I'm Louis Goodman, the host of the podcast. Prior to being appointed to the bench, Roz was a Contra Costa County alternate Public Defender.

She was also a Public Defender in Alameda County for many years. She also did some work with the San Francisco County Public Defender's Office. She has two children, is that right? Roz? Two children. Yep. And we are very happy to welcome her today to the podcast, Roz Silvaggio, Judge Silvaggio, welcome to the Alameda County Bar Association Podcast and the Love Thy Lawyer podcast.

[00:01:03] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Thank you so much, Lou. I'm so happy to be here and I will have everyone know who's watching this and I got this before I was a judge and I've proudly displayed it in my office ever since. 

[00:01:14] Louis Goodman: Well, thank you for doing that. I'm a big fan. 

[00:01:17] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: I'm a big fan of yours and thank you for having me. 

[00:01:21] Louis Goodman: Well, I'm very honored that you are here today joining us as a judge.

You got that, you earned that mug by being on the podcast when you were a deputy Public Defender here in Alameda County and we interviewed you. And if anyone wants to see that interview, they can just go to the Love Thy Lawyer website and search your name and that podcast will come right up. Where are you speaking to us from right now?

[00:01:49] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: I'm here in my chambers behind Department 1 0 8. I'm not a great decorator, so it's not super snazzy, but it's comfy enough. 

[00:01:59] Louis Goodman: And that's in the Wiley Manuel Courthouse in downtown Oakland, near the police station, correct? 

[00:02:04] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Yeah, that's right. You \got it. 

[00:02:06] Louis Goodman: How long have you been on the bench now? 

[00:02:09] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Okay, so I was sworn in on November 1st, so not very long.

[00:02:14] Louis Goodman: Before that you were a Public Defender here in Alameda County. And how long were you at the Public Defender's Office Here in Alameda County? 

[00:02:22] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: So in Alameda County? I think, so total, I was a Public Defender for 20 years. Actually, I am kind of a full circle moment. My, my interview at the governor's office was actually on the 20th anniversary of my first day as a Public Defender in Los Angeles County that first week of September of 2004, and then I was at the governor's office that first week of September of 2024 just prior to my appointment. 

[00:02:55] Louis Goodman: So you've had a lot of experience in criminal courts. 

[00:02:59] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Yeah. I feel like I'm kind of a, I mean, before I was on the bench a whole, you know, handful of months ago, I was kind of a regular, shall we say in the courtroom? I mean, I, I think I was, I was hard to miss. I was always, I was always in department 11 or de department one 15 or department one 12, sometimes in East County, you know, handling my, my felony caseload. 

[00:03:24] Louis Goodman: Well, that's certainly where we met and where I saw you all the time when I would go to court.

Can you describe to us the type of work that you're doing right now as a judge? 

[00:03:36] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Sure. So department 1 0 8 is really the only game in town for misdemeanor arraignments and pretrial hearings in Oakland. So it used to be, you know, because I have been a Public Defender here for years and years, although it's been a while since I've been a misdemeanor trial lawyer, it used to be that two or more courtrooms would handle all the misdemeanor arraignments and pretrial hearings and how it's shaken out now, it's just down to one. And that's my department. 

[00:04:10] Louis Goodman: And how's that going for you? 

[00:04:11] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: I mean, it's kind of great. I don't know. I mean, I'm too new to the bench to know a lot about what the other bench officers think, but I have a suspicion that 1 0 8 wasn't like a prized assignment and just, I'm thinking that that what my, that's the impression I'm getting, but I actually really like 1 0 8 and I, I often joke, you know, when I get a day where I have over a hundred cases on calendar, which unfortunately happened more than once last week. Today we were at 80 and I see these, you know, cases getting, you know, moved over into the completed queue, there's a little dopamine hit that I get. You know, I'm, you know, I'm doing work. I'm taking care of business. I'm getting through the calendar, and hopefully every time a case is called, something happens that moves the case forward. That's really my goal. I hate just continuing cases just to continue them.

It really bums me out. Not only is it bad for the courtroom and for, you know. The administrators, the people who are concerned about the number of court appearances before resolution and looking at those statistics. But I believe that it's bad for access to justice for the people who come before me and often the people who are victims of these crimes who want to see these cases resolved one way or another in a meaningful way, you know, quickly.

Yeah, especially in the misdemeanor world, you know, these sort of cases can really hang over people's heads like a black cloud, and so I like to see that people are getting information, that people are getting counsel, that people are getting the things that they need to resolve or decide to set their case in a trial court quickly.

[00:06:10] Louis Goodman: I have to just tell you that from all the information that I've gotten, you know, from both the DAs and Public Defenders and the private attorneys that I know, and of course my own experience in your court. You're doing an amazing job for someone who's been on the bench for such a short period of time and in a department that I think is one of the really critical departments in, in the county because of the volume of cases that go through there.

[00:06:38] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: I think it's important too. I mean, I think, you know, misdemeanors. I mean, you know, you're talking to me who has handled really serious felonies over the last several years and you know, that was kind of, I really enjoyed being a trial lawyer and handling these cases. But the reality is you have a lot of opportunity to make a difference in people's lives.

[00:06:57] Louis Goodman: Yeah. 

[00:06:57] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: In demeanors, I mean, you know, I often say this, and sometimes I say it out loud for the benefit of the counsel who are there, but you know the difference between appearing on a case three times. In two months or one time in two months, maybe the difference between having enough to pay your phone bill that month, you know. People who come before the court are oftentimes employed.

They have things going on, coming before the court is a burden to them. Delaying getting connected with resources like DUI programs. Or domestic violence programs or counseling, that is a burden for them. And so I do what I can to kind of see to it that people aren't just coming back to see me for nothing, because these are people that are really important and their time is important.

And, and I, I try to keep that in front of mind every day. 

[00:07:57] Louis Goodman: You've been in the legal profession for quite some time and now you're on the bench. What is it that you like about being around the law, specifically about being around the criminal law that keeps you doing the work that you're doing? 

[00:08:11] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: That's an interesting, I mean, you know, obviously what I'm doing now is a lot different than what I did before in some ways, but in some ways it's not.

And when I ultimately made the decision, you know, to put my name in for the bench, it was really because I was taking account of the things that I liked about my job and the things I liked about my job. Were interfacing with people. I think people who know me well would say you are a true extrovert.

You know, I get energy from being around others. As I got better and better at my job, I enjoyed my opponents more. I could, you know, I could speak to them about the cases in ways where they could hear me, and I liked it. I enjoyed so many of my conversations that I had with my opponent. I like to spar. I like to spar on issues of the law and I like to try to flex my kindness, you know, like wherever you could. 

[00:09:11] Louis Goodman: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:09:11] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: And I think that there is a value to that. I try and believe me, I get it, I fail 'cause I get frustrated just like the next person. But I try to be kind and I try to be considerate of those before me. I tried to lead with empathy and those were the things that I did in my practice.

And those were the things and the values that I thought I could bring to the bench that I enjoy. I enjoy human beings. They're fascinating to me. That's really what I like about it. It's the same thing I liked about the last job I had, just in a different seat with a different dress. 

[00:09:48] Louis Goodman: What do you think is the the best advice that you've ever received?

[00:09:54] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: It came from my wedding planner before I walked down the aisle she said. Take it in, you know, here is where you are. Take it in, enjoy the moment. And I think in a busy life, in a busy profession, those are the moments that I try to have with myself. You know, when I put on my robe, I take a minute and I'm, you know, I think about the gravity of what I'm about to do before I walk into court.

Sometimes I'm running around trying to get, you know, extra coffee and all my beverages lined up on the bench. But, but really there is a moment where I take a breath and I take some time. I see where I am, I perceive it, and I stay present. 

[00:10:39] Louis Goodman: If a young person were just, you know, starting out, just coming outta college and thinking about a career, would you recommend the law?

[00:10:48] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: I mean, yes, I would, but you have to understand that I come from a place of tremendous, tremendous privilege and I'm, you know, of course, anticipating our conversation today, I, I thought a lot about this because the reality is I have spent my entire career doing things that are meaningful to me, right?

Things that in my own estimation, spoke to my soul about what was important to me, what I could feel good about. You know, there are not that many people that can say that, right? I mean, most of us go to work to make money, and of course I go to work to make money too. But I've had this tremendous fortune in my life, you know, to have been drawn to the work of a Public Defender, that it really did speak to my soul.

And when I left, I was not done. And that's exactly how I wanted it. I never wanted to be rung out. I never wanted to be tired. I never wanted to, I never wanted to feel resentment or anger towards my clients. I wanted to, for lack of a better description, leave the party while the drinks were flowing and the band was playing.

And that is exactly what I did. And I know how fortunate I am, and now I have now found myself in this new position where I feel very much the same way. I feel like this role speaks to who I am as a person, and it also allows me to bring my values with me, my heart and mind with me, and this new arena.

So how could I tell someone that my path in the law wasn't incredible, 'cause it has been, it has been incredible. Really. Does that mean that's everyone's path? No. And there are some people who are driven by different things. There are some people that you know, are really chasing the dollar. I think if, if my whole reason for going to law school was to make money, I would've found myself in kind of a tough spot.

And it also, if my whole reason for going to law school was to make money, I would've picked something else, as I told you in the last episode, I probably would've sold real estate or I would've gone into wine sales or party planning. I would've been so good at all of those things, I would've made a load of money.

I'm convinced that that's the case. There are so many better ways to make money than to be in the law, but I will tell you that for me, I've had a very fulfilling career so far, and I think I'm only about halfway done. 

[00:13:30] Louis Goodman: You've been an advocate. You've been in front of judges, now you are a judge, and you see advocates and there's a difference from the way the courtroom looks from one side versus the other. And I've said this before on this podcast, I've, you know, had the opportunity to sit as a judge pro tem on many occasions. You know, doing traffic, small claims, that sort of thing. The world looks so different from the bench than it does from counsel table. 

[00:14:03] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: That's right. I remember after like my first month or so, I was remarking to my new colleagues. I said, you know, I don't think I spent a lot of time looking to my left actually, my right at my job. I didn't have time for that. I didn't know what was going on in the courtroom.

And when you're up there, you see things that nobody else sees. And you see things that sometimes you really do not want to see, 

[00:14:31] Louis Goodman: and you're expected to know everything. The expectation is that you're the person sitting up there with the robe who has all the knowledge and all the power and 

[00:14:43] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Yeah.

You know, 

[00:14:43] Louis Goodman: but ultimately, 

[00:14:45] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: I mean, here's what, like, I personally, one of my goals, I think, is to lead with curiosity. Yeah. And to recognize the fact that I don't know everything. And I have said on more than one occasion on some pretty serious issues, I'm, I really don't know the answer. Like, I don't know. I'm willing to hear anything.

Like, here's how I'm thinking through it. And there was an issue last week where I said, you are giving me no authority for this position, however, I see that there's an issue here, and if there's an issue, here's how I'm gonna think about it, and I am open and ready to hear what else you got. I am not shutting you down.

I am like, I'm gonna go in the back and take a look and figure it out, and I think that is how I'm gonna have to go forward probably for the rest of my career. I hope that that's how I go for it. I am totally clear on the fact that there are many things that I will and have gotten wrong already, I know that I have made mistakes on the law.

I have made mistakes on my demeanor, not mistakes, but there are things that I wish I'd handled differently already, you know? So I'm going to be the last person that you will talk to who says, oh yes, I know everything. Or I'm gonna pretend to know everything. I think my flex is gonna be that I am going to be very clear on what I don't know.

I'm going to think through it. I'm going to make my record. I'm going to do it much the same way that I did as a effective advocate, which was okay, let's talk through this. Like show me what you got. 

[00:16:24] Louis Goodman: As a judge looking at attorneys. What can we as attorneys coming in front of your court do in order to be more effective advocates? And to also be appropriate officers of the court in the sense that one of our jobs as advocates is to assist the court in making the right decisions. 

[00:16:47] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: That's right. So recognize that I will listen and I will hear you, especially if I don't know something. And I'm also open to the fact that I'm not going to know something.

There was an incident, not an incident, there was a case that was called yesterday and then this record went on and on and I was like, what do you want me to do? Tell me what you want me to do, and then I will tell you if I can do it. You know, I think the thing that I see the most, that drives me a little to use my 9-year-old phrase, a little cuckoo bananas, are the times when people are willing to be very rote with their practice.

And they come in, it's like, okay, this is the time that I plead not guilty and waive time and waive formal reading and arraignment. And I'm like, well, did you see that? Sometimes I'm like, well, have you seen the, you know, I want people to be thoughtful in all appearances, you know? And kind of in keeping with my desire that look, always be advocating and don't think that just because this is the arraignment, there's not something for you to do.

Like do something. I welcome it. Talk to your opponent, you know, or DA you know, look at this case. Let's move the pieces on the chest board, four, you know, six steps where you're gonna end up with this case. Maybe we can do something today. We don't need to just set another date. So those are the, those are really the things 'cause sometimes, you know, recognizing that from the bench I still have, it's pretty terse what I have. I have, you know, the probable cause declaration I have, I have some information. But oftentimes, you know, since I spent 20 years evaluating cases, I can see some things from there that maybe people could talk about even at arraignment, or maybe people could talk about more, you know, with the first pretrial instead of at the fourth pretrial.

You know? So those are the things that I guess. When you come to the court, like recognize that every date is important, every appearance is important. I guess if I had to make it concise, that's, that's where, how I'd describe it. 

[00:19:04] Louis Goodman: Your Honor, I have a few more questions for you. I'm gonna save them until a little later in the podcast, because we have a number of people on who I'm sure would like to ask you a question or make a comment. So let's start with Thomas Butzbach. Mr. Butzbach, can you unmute and have your question or comment for the judge? 

[00:19:28] Thomas Butzbach: First of all, welcome to the show. 

[00:19:30] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Thank you.

[00:19:30] Thomas Butzbach: Wonderful. You just brought up something that really fascinated me. The idea that at arraignment you should be moving the chess players forward always. And I'm thinking that generally speaking, we don't have discovery at that time on these cases. And what would you suggest we look, what kind of chess moves should I make? 

[00:19:52] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Well, I mean, obviously, like I said, I have very little information, but sometimes it's like a, there, there may be situations where you see that there's a problem with the pleadings or that this is a very, very old case, or that you see that this person has no criminal history and that the DA has waited, you know, 346 days to file the complaint. No. Very good. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Maybe you can go to the DA and be like, Hey, man. 

[00:20:23] Thomas Butzbach: Yes. 

[00:20:23] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: You know, this was a bad day for her 346 days ago.

Like in the meantime, she's gone to therapy. Like, what if we, you know, do we really need to put this out two months for the next available pretrial to start talking? Or maybe you've already talked to your client and you kind of know her story and you wonder if there's something that can be informally done.

And I'm not saying that it's in every case. And you're absolutely quite right because as an advocate you need to have the proper information and you need to, you know, look at the body-worn camera and you need many times, and you need to look at all the things that you need to look at because we know that, you know, so often your client's version of what happened does not match what the police report.

Is that true because your client's right, and the police report is wrong? Is it because your client was, you know. A little bit tipsy may not have remembered so well. 

You have to figure that out and, but to the degree that sometimes, like I said, when I, I'm looking at these cases and I'm like, I don't think we need to come back in two months.

This looks like something that maybe with a little bit of finesse because we are in misdemeanor world, you know, there could be some sort of informal resolution. And I'm not saying every case, and I'm not saying that it, you know, and recognizing that I don't have all the information, but I mean, 

[00:21:52] Thomas Butzbach: How to use your advice and I go with those goals.

I think that's a good goal to try to do, find the nuances. 

[00:21:58] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: I mean, if you can, I mean, why not? I mean, there were many times, and I know that this is not a popular view, I would go for felony intake as a public defender. And you know how it worked. It was like, this is your intake day and here is your file.

And you go back there and you make an OR pitch and then you wave time and it, I would be like, up at the DA's, I'm like, can't we 17 B this man? You know? Like, what can I do right now? And of course, nine times out of 10 answer was no. But why not give it a go? Why not, you know, push and advocate because sometimes, sometimes when you just do things by rote, it just you miss out on opportunities that you might have. That might be, that might be clear. 

[00:22:43] Thomas Butzbach: Interesting. I have one more question that's Sure. Always, I've wondered my whole life. When you're a judge in a court, how much leeway do you have to design your own court and the way it flows and things around the courtroom? How much leeway is there? 

[00:22:59] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Well, that's a very hilarious question, given that yesterday I started taking down signs that were put up by a different bench officer in 2016. And just to give you some history, in 2016, in 1 0 8. I worked as a calendar lawyer for a short period of time. Actually, it may have been a long, a long, a little longer my, I was fresh from maternity leave, and so I was working part-time and so I was doing calendar work and there were signs that were put up in 2016 by the bench officer at that time, and I took them down yesterday and before I did, I took photos of them and I sent them to my friend who's now also a judge who was also a calendar deputy back in 2016, also in 1 0 8, judge Glenn Kim, and I was like, can you believe this sign that's been here for 10 years, this very aggressive sign? I'm taking it down and then I took some more down. I took them all down and they were just, they were just un, I just didn't like the vibe I, and it was like, don't sleep and don't play with your pager and right pager.

And I just said, I'm taking these down. So yesterday, literally I took them down and photographed them sitting in the recycle bin and sent, sent a copy off to my friend who's also now a judge. 

[00:24:27] Thomas Butzbach: Well, thank you for that. It sounds like you have a little leeway. 

[00:24:30] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: I got some leeway and I was thinking of putting up inspirational posters and I may do like a, a contest to see who can come up with the best, most inspirational department 1 0 8 posters, like, hang in there, you can do it. Or like, this is just a bump in the road. Like, I don't know, like 

[00:24:49] Thomas Butzbach: it's kind of fun to think about though, huh? 

[00:24:51] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: It is fun to think about. Yeah. 

[00:24:54] Louis Goodman: Alright, well thank you Mr. Butzbach. 

[00:24:56] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Thank you for those questions. 

[00:24:58] Louis Goodman: Manjula Martin. 

[00:24:59] Manjula Martin: Judge Silvaggio, I was super stoked to see you in 1 0 8, I remember 2016 and being in department 1 0 8, that's actually when we met.

I remember the signs, I remember the vibe. I'm glad it's not that way anymore. I'm looking forward to your new signs. I wanted to ask, do you have any hard don'ts besides like, don't show up in like yoga pants. Are there, is there anything where you see like an attorney doing it? And I'm not talking about young attorneys who are like newly minted, who just don't know.

I'm talking about, you know, those of us that have been around the block maybe five or six times. Is there anything that just is kind of like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 

[00:25:43] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: I, no, actually, I'm not even offended by yoga pants. If people wear yoga pants, that's okay with me. Oh, well, I think this gets back to what I was saying before, especially my big don't, is when people call a case and they clearly haven't talked to their client.

 And sometimes when they call a case and then the client walks up and they're like, I think they're appearing 9, 7, 7. And then that person has just been like sitting in the courtroom waiting for their case to be called, I think for me, and, and these are the types of things you see from the bench, right?

Blue, that, that I wasn't like watching what people were doing or keeping track of what people were doing. I was, you know, as a public defender, I was running all around doing my things. When you see people just chilling and there's stuff that they could have done between the time that they signed up the case and the time that the case was called, or you know, not signed up their case.

You know, I feel like being together in one place in a courtroom is an opportunity. And so for me, when I see people squander those opportunities to speak and to advocate, that is, that is the big don't. Now, unfortunately, the way 1 0 8 is working right now and I'm trying to do things to change it. We really don't have enough prosecutors to talk with people.

I am taking the bench late by design, hoping that people are talking and I'm taking breaks by design, hoping to give people an opportunity to talk. So that's my big don't, is like don't just sit and wait to get another date. 

[00:27:32] Manjula Martin: I'm sorry to interrupt. I did have one more question. I noticed the other day that you said that you don't really like the PTCs on the Zoom.

Yes. I just wanted to confirm that for myself, for my own personal, like little mental catalog that PTCs you prefer in person. So thank you for that confirmation. 

[00:27:52] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Sure. Yes. And I mean, and it kind of means, 

[00:27:54] Louis Goodman: Can we just, can we just define PTC for anyone who's not familiar with the 1 0 8 

[00:28:00] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Brianna's on it. She's like, what is that? It is a pretrial conference, and I think the reason is because you cannot conference from Zoom. 

[00:28:09] Manjula Martin: Yeah, I agree a hundred percent. 

[00:28:11] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: There's no, there's no conferencing and so don't, and, and my whole, my, you know that that calendar in 1 0 8 is really, really, obviously since we're the only game in town, it's very, very busy.

And so I much prefer people take lengthy time, like in other words, don't come back every month and just pick another date. If you need to put the case out for two and a half months to do whatever needs to be done and to like have these off the record conversations with your opponent, or to get the information to the DA and like have a, you know, for the DA to like look at the, you know, mitigation or whatever they're looking at, then let's put it over.

Nobody needs to come back and see me and sit on Zoom for 45 minutes waiting for me to just call and pick another date. And the fewer appearances we have like that, of course, the better the calendar is. And so it's my preference that, you know, even if it means you put your, your pretrial conference out longer than you otherwise would, my preference would be that you're there in person and have a real pretrial conference.

[00:29:18] Manjula Martin: Got it. 

[00:29:19] Louis Goodman: Okay. Thanks, Manjula. 

[00:29:21] Manjula Martin: Thank you. 

[00:29:22] Louis Goodman: Brianna Jackson. Can you unmute and join us? 

[00:29:25] Brianna Jackson: Sure. Hello. Hi. Hi. I was thinking of a question. I'm a 3L at USF slash Golden Gate Law, which closed. Super excited to be here and just listen to the conversation. I'm an aspiring Public Defender and just curious to hear anything you think would be useful for this particular moment in our political environment, in our economic reality. For how to be of service as a public defender in a way that's, that's gonna be conducive to allowing folks like yourself to do their jobs. 

[00:29:59] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: A really good question. I mean this, these are strange times, indeed. So, you know, I was a public defender for 20 years, including in Alameda County and I, I spent every day that I was a Public Defender, really loving it.

And I think ultimately when you, I think, you know, it's interesting because I think the work has in some ways, in many ways changed from when I started 20 years ago. You know, things and you, you're, you're kind of right that it is, it is somewhat linked in with our politics, right? Things are more polarized than they were 20 years ago, and I think that's nationally true.

I think it's true within Public Defender's Offices, I remember when I was a very young Public Defender, I didn't know anything about anyone's politics at all. Like there were people from all walks who were Public Defenders for all different reasons. And I think it's a little bit less so now. I think there is like, there is something about kind of what's happening in society that's also being reflected back within.

Offices. I think the best thing that you can do as a Public Defender, and this is just my opinion, focus on the individual client always. It's not about you and it's not about your politics, and it's not about the Public Defender versus the court or the Public Defender versus the DA, right? I think when you become a more well-rounded, successful advocate you realize that the, the work is always about the client. It's never about anything else. And it's not about who you are. It's about who your client is and what they need and how you can serve them. So my advice to someone who wants to be a Public Defender is to keep that in your, you know, in your heart, and make sure that when you're appearing in court, when you are advocating for a client, you know that you're advocating for that client. I know that sounds simple, but it has gotten a little, people can lose their way. 

[00:32:15] Louis Goodman: What, what would be a, what would be a good way for Brianna to make contact with a Public Defender's Office in order to like, try and get an internship or get some experience being around the office? Actually working with other people who are now Public Defenders. 

[00:32:36] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Absolutely. I mean, most Public Defenders Offices have internships, they do on-campus interviews. I know. It is very, very It is. I mean, it, it was, and it is very competitive. I know that. Don't give up. You know, when I was a, when I graduated, law school was in kind of a downturn market. There were hiring freezes. I had, I had interned at the San Francisco Public Defender, and that's a very, that was an office in, in the midst of some political change. It just so happened the person I was interning for was not an Adachi supporter. So that means, you know, when Adachi came in, I had to, I mean, it would, you know, and of course for me, I wasn't really linked in or understanding all the politics involved. I just wanted to be a Public Defender. But that kind of dried up in terms of my ability to go there after law school. And I, fortunately, I literally cold called Contra Costa and I had done an on-campus interview with a PD from Contra Costa, and I had elected to go to the state Public Defender for a summer instead of theirs.

And after I passed the bar exam, I cold called the woman who interviewed me and I said, oh, it's Roz Silvaggio. And she's like, oh, hi Roz. You want a job? I mean, literally that's what happened. So I went there and then, you know, I got passed over for, I was, I was working as a death penalty law for clerk, and I got passed over for, you know, one of the very few temporary trial attorney positions at the same time as I'd forgotten.

I had interviewed with, with the Los Angeles Public Defender, and they came calling. And so I thought, well, you know, I'm gonna have to, this is what I think I'm gonna do. I have to jump in. And LA is certainly a wonderful place to go and, and give it a go. And so I did. I went, and then after that I had, you know, pretty much my pick of office to return to in the Bay Area.

You know, I had so much experience by that time and I had done a lot of trials and two and a half years, and I, I actually got hired briefly back at Contra Costa, and then two weeks later got hired in Alameda. So, ended up back in Alameda County. So you just gotta keep, keep going for it, but, you know, make as many connections as you can and, and whatever you can do to get that experience, because not everyone, it's not always what you think it is.

Like you have to make sure this is the right thing for you. And so to the degree someone wants to give you a chance, go try it. It seems like when you are a law student or even when you're a college student, something like a year or six months seems like an eternity, but the reality is it goes by in a zip.

So you, you know, just get as much experience and exposure to as many offices as you can and to the work and makes sure that it really speaks to what you think you want to do with your life. And good luck. 

[00:35:34] Louis Goodman: Yeah. Good luck, Brianna. Thank you for, for joining us. Lydia, you're a nurse. Can you unmute and join us?

[00:35:42] Lydia: Sure. Yeah. I am actually a wound care nurse. I just wanted to join and just say hi. I like what you have to say, so thank you. 

[00:35:56] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Thank you too. 

[00:35:59] Lydia: But yeah, I had the same philosophy that you're, for me, it was the patient, not the client. That's your important thing now as being a behind the scenes legal nurse consultant doing wound care, I think my client is the lawyer, but also the person that he has a client. So I can see what you're saying, but you're talking more criminal. I'm talking civil, so it's a big difference. But thank you so much. I'm learning a lot. 

[00:36:37] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: That's very fun. Thank you for being here. 

[00:36:40] Louis Goodman: Yeah, thanks for joining us, Lydia.

Really appreciate it. I just have a couple of follow up questions, but first I have a follow-up comment to what Brianna was talking about and what you were talking about, which is the willingness to pick up and go someplace else in order to get the experience. And, you know, you went to Los Angeles. I, I happen to know that there are a lot of opportunities for DAs and Public Defenders in some of the smaller counties, in some of the more rural areas of the state.

And, you know, for people who are willing to go there, there, there's just some, some great places to go and get some, some work and get some real experience in a, a different setting. So I would encourage anyone, whether it's Brianna or anyone who's, you know, listening who's thinking about coming into the practice to, to think about going to someplace that's not where you're living right now.

[00:37:42] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: That's right. Yeah. 

[00:37:44] Louis Goodman: Okay. I have a couple more questions. Do you think the legal system is fair? 

[00:37:49] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: You asked me that question the last time we spoke. And I said no, and I was like, oh, I hope the governor doesn't listen. No, I'm kidding. Do I think the system is fair? No. I think that this is what we're, this is what we're striving for, right? Is fairness and part of what inspired me, you know, to be honest, I never ever thought that I would be a judge. I thought that my life would be as a Public Defender, but part of what inspired me to put my name in, were the changes that I saw in the legislature. Things like the Racial Justice Act, things like the new Batson-Wheeler, things like sentencing guidelines, things like CALCRIM 209 and recognizing implicit bias in our system.

I mean, this is a recognition, the legislature is recognizing failures within our system. So it is a work in progress. Is it fair? Probably not, but is that what we're striving towards, right? Is it just, is it just. We're trying to seek justice, right? That's what we're all trying to do there. It doesn't just happen to be like, okay, here's the system we have and it's automatically great.

It's great because people are trying, it's great because people are learning. It's great because people are growing and focusing on the failures of the systems. So do I believe in this system? Yes, I believe, I believe that it can work. And part of the reason why I was moved to take this career path and to make this change was because I thought that someone with my heart and mind who had served as a Public Defender for 20 years needed, you know, had something to offer.

I had something to offer the bench. Do I think that I am the only person or I needed to be that person? No, everyone has something to offer, but I was, but that's precisely why I'm here. Like I want to make this system fair. I want to bring my perspective for all those, you know, decades. And I want to see more people with who've had my experiences or others, or living in this world as a, with important with a very important new lens up on the bench too, for that reason, because I think it does make our system better and I do, I think it does make our system more fair. 

[00:40:30] Louis Goodman: Lemme just shift gears here a little bit. They say that sitting is the new smoking and yeah, being on the, the bench by definition involves sitting there and doing the job.

I'm wondering what sorts of things did you do recreationally to kind of get your, your mind off of the law every once in a while and, and, and get yourself out there and your blood circulating 

[00:40:56] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Well, so no joke. I have a, I have a under bench bicycle. 

[00:41:01] Louis Goodman: How does that work? 'cause 

[00:41:02] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: because you're very right, I mean, I was like, I sit like literally when they say she's a judge in X County, they say she's sitting in that county.

So like I do sit for a living, which is terrible. I got my under bench bicycle. I'm not super optimistic that it's helping a lot because I think you have to use it for it to work. And sometimes I get, you know, way too focused on what I'm doing to remember to put my feet into stirrups and start moving.

You know, I'm trying to walk. I do work out with a trainer, but for instance, last week I got stuck in an emergency in court and had to cancel with her last, last minute. So thing. So yeah, I mean. I live in San Francisco at the top of a hill, and I will tell you that I will sometimes saunter to my home with someone who is very, very in shape. And by the time they get to my front door, they are like about to pass out because 

[00:42:07] Louis Goodman: you run them into the ground. 

[00:42:10] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Yeah. And, and they're like, I thought I was in good shape. And I'm like, yeah, well. Everyone in San Francisco is in reasonable shape because like you're just walking up in the middle. So that's kind of what I do, chase after my children and walk up and down hills.

[00:42:25] Louis Goodman: Judge, I have two other questions. One is, if you came into real money, three or four billion dollars, what, if anything, would you do differently in your life? 

[00:42:35] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: I would make my husband stop working because he is also a lawyer and he works very, very hard. I would sure love to see him take his foot off the gas. He's been working since he was 11 years old. That would be the first, the first order of business, I think. I would still work. I know I would still work. 

[00:42:58] Louis Goodman: Judge, is there anything that you'd like to discuss, talk about, bring up that we haven't mentioned, that we haven't touched on? Anything at all that you'd like to discuss? 

[00:43:12] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: There are so many things. These questions have all been really good and thoughtful about the process. I will say to anyone who thinks that they want to put their name in for the bench, that I hope, I hope that we continue to see people from more diverse backgrounds as we are seeing. I want people to know that there is a community of bench officers who are ready to support that.

And, and it was, you know, it was very humbling for me when I kind of realized that I was ready to, to put my name in, how kind and wonderful my now colleagues were at that time. And I think that would be true for so many people. And I hope some more people take that leap. 

[00:44:09] Louis Goodman: Judge Roz Silvaggio, thank you so much for joining us today on the Love Thy Lawyer Podcast and the Alameda County Bar Association. We've really enjoyed talking to you. 

[00:44:19] Hon. Roz Silvaggio: Thank you so much. It's been wonderful to be here again with you, Lou, and thank you to the people who joined us this afternoon. I will see you in 1 0 8. Thank you for being here with us this afternoon. 

[00:44:36] Louis Goodman: That's it for today's edition of Love Thy Lawyer in collaboration with the Alameda County Bar Association. Please visit the lovethylawyer.com website where you can find links to all of our episodes. Also please visit the Alameda County Bar Association website at acbanet.org where you can find more information about our support of the legal profession, promoting excellence in the legal profession and facilitating equal access to justice.

Thanks to Joel Katz for music, Brian Matheson for technical support, Paul Robert for social media, and Tracy Harvey. I'm Louis Goodman. 

[00:45:24] Louis Goodman: Can you unmute and have a comment or a question for the judge? 

[00:45:30] Manjula Martin: Yeah, I can unmute. I don't wanna show myself 'cause I just got out of the gym, and I look like a crazy, wild Medusa lady.