Elizabeth Catignani | My Shattered Heart: Experiencing Stillbirth & Being a Widow at 27

As a mother, carrying and growing another human in the womb for nine months, it is expected that a healthy child will be born. However, for Elizabeth, that is not what happened. Her world was shattered when she realized that she wouldn't be a new mom overflowing with joy. Rather, she would become a mother with grieving empty arms. 

After her firstborn died, Elizabeth and her husband were fortunate to have a healthy daughter. Yet again, her joy was cut short when their daughter was only about 5 months old when her husband was deployed in the Special Forces in the Army.

Her husband owed the military one last deployment and within six weeks of that deployment to Afghanistan,  Elizabeth received a call that no military spouse ever wants to receive.  Her husband was in Germany with injuries sustained while on deployment. She flew to Germany to be with him, which would turn out to be for his final breaths. 

All of that loss within an 18-month period would be the catalyst for her to look for and ultimately create a space for herself and other grieving young widows.

Through a lot of ongoing healing and inner work, Elizabeth did find love again and has a family with so much love to give to. But, it wasn't a quick, bounce-right-back process either, and being a young widow, who was also still grieving a son, would pose its own challenges, too. 

There's truly no way to skirt around grief. You have to feel it.

RESOURCES:

• Website, Her Creative Wellness
• Resources, Her Creative Wellness 
• Book, Creative Grieving: A Hip Chick's Path from Loss to Hope 
• Art Therapy for Veterans (Behind the Mask)

CONNECT:

• Her Creative Wellness Instagram
• Her Creative Wellness Facebook Page

______

Transcript

Victoria Volk 0:00

Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. Today is another fantastic conversation with my guest elizabeth Catignani and she is a certified creative grief coach health coach and author of creative grieving, a hip chicks path from loss to hope after several unexpected losses at the age of 27, she's passionately dedicated her life to helping others experience healing, joy, and purpose. after loss, she established her creative wellness, a blog and online platform as a supportive space for women to become empowered on their journey in healing and wellness, from grief to hope. She believes in the transformative power of the human journey in our sacred stories, through sharing her own story, she hopes to light the way for others seeking a healthy heart centered and fulfilling life. Thank you for being here and I'm on that train with you.

Elizabeth Catignani 0:55

thank you so much for having me today. It's great to be here.

Victoria Volk 0:59

Absolutely. First of all, people often find themselves doing work that they didn't project themselves doing like ever, like you never, you can plan your life five years, 10 years ahead, or you have goals in mind, but life always throws wrenches and surprises, and sometimes even gives you things and gifts and experiences that are beyond your expectation or wildest dreams. But sometimes, we have experiences that really shape and change us and bring us to a new path. And that's where you have found yourself. And so let's start with, what your goals in life were before these losses that you bring you to grieving voices. What was your life like before.

Elizabeth Catignani 1:50

I had been a teacher prior to my losses and I was actually in the process of getting my master's in counseling. I had known I'd always wanted to work particularly with women just around mental health issues. And so it's interesting how I was already a little bit toward on this path of wanting to help others and work with women through life transitions and healing. And so I find it interesting that it happened shortly. I was just finishing up my first year of my master's with this program and all of a sudden, shortly after that is when my losses happened. And which completely turned my life upside down. Prior to that, I'd had a pretty. Typical, go through school meet my husband, get married. And so up until I was about 25 I hadn't really understood or known real trauma in my life,

Victoria Volk 2:49

What changed for?

Elizabeth Catignani 2:50

When I was having my first born, I had gone through a very normal, healthy nine month pregnancy and I was 25, 26. And on my son's due date. After about a 14 hour labor he died from a cord accident. And that was absolutely, life shattering. And it was just the biggest shock upheaval in my life. And my husband and I really had to, find a way together to grieve that loss. And we were working through that process a little bit. I had started going to support groups and counseling and he had his own way of grieving which he was in the military. He had a little different take on feelings and talking about them a lot. And so I found my own outlets to cope with my grief. And thankfully we were fortunate to have a healthy daughter. After we lost our son however, when she was only about five months old, he was deployed. He was in the special forces in the army and he owed the military one last deployment and only about six weeks in he was serving in Afghanistan. I got a call that he had been injured and shortly after that I was flown over to Germany. It was something he couldn't recover from. He had been killed on a mission. And I was there with him for his last moments, but I had to leave our baby girl back in the states with my family. And I couldn't believe yet again, I was just like, what are the odds? What is wrong with me? Why me? Within an 18 month period, losing both a son and then my husband who had been my rock through grieving our son, we had that shared grief and then to lose that person who could understand that loss better than anyone. I was like, how do I grieve both of these together? It was impossible. That was about, I was 27. So that's almost about 13 years ago now. And so since then, I've just been on this. Crazy difficult, beautiful, intense, amazing journey. that only grief, can show you really. And shortly after his death, I moved to Charlotte, North Carolina, and I decided that I wanted to really work with other women who were grieving and meet other women who were grieving because I felt so alone. Different than everyone else around me. And I didn't know how to move forward. I did the first thing I could was to think I need to connect with other people who can understand. I sought out some support groups. I had a hard time finding one that I really connected with. So I actually started my own on meetup.com. When I think it was starting to become popular around then. And I was called soul widows particularly for young widows. Cuz a lot of groups out there were not really geared towards younger people. So I began meeting amazing women. I just was like, wow, there are other young women out there like me that have actually lost their spouse or their partner. And I formed new friendships and relationships that way. And it was really the stepping stone to starting to live again a little bit and pick myself up off the ground. And just trying to get through that first year while also trying to raise our daughter on my own. Thankfully I had family to help, but it was just very daunting, very overwhelming. And it's been teaching me a lot throughout my life. Those experiences.

Victoria Volk 6:39

Have you found love again?

Elizabeth Catignani 6:42

I have.

Victoria Volk 6:43

oh good for you.

Elizabeth Catignani 6:44

It's an incredible love. Yes, I've been happily married for about six and a half years now. Remarried. We have a beautiful five year old daughter as well, my oldest is now 13. I never would've imagined over a decade ago, having the life I do now having been able to find love and create the family that I always dreamed about. Cause at one point it seemed literally like it would never be possible or I could never risk getting hurt again or opening my heart again. So I'm definitely in a place that I am extremely grateful for. But it was a lot of hard work to get here. It was a lot of facing the pain and the heartache and the realities and just digging deep, cuz there's truly no way to skirt around grief. You have to feel it. You have to live it and it's something that I know like with our society, particularly, it's not a comfortable thing and it's not easy for people. To know what to say or how to support you or how to talk about it with other people. And so I think it's so important in those early years to really find those that you can trust, find a community, find someone that you can really just pour your heart out too. And knowing that they'll trust it, treat it with honor and respect and because, life is certainly not all fun and joy and as much as we love that. So I think it's good to have these conversations, cuz I feel like so many people deserve them and deserve to know that they're not alone and that there is support and that there are other people that have suffered and found their way out. We need those stories cuz otherwise it feels very hopeless. So I've tried to through the work that I've done share like this is, this was my experience this was my hardship and there is another side if you keep going. And at one point shortly after I started my support group, I had co-founded it was called the respite. It was a center for grief and hope a local nonprofit with a couple of other women. And that was also just such a profound experience for me. We ran that for about four years and we helped tons of women that came through our doors. We provided counseling services and support groups, and it was just such an uplifting experience to feel like I could. Take my story and turn it into something beautiful by giving to others, like being of service was such a huge piece to just finding purpose again and feeling value and feeling like worthy. Just even if it was helping one or two people at, here and there it just filled up my heart and I felt okay, I can still create some beauty in some life and reconnect with myself, because it takes a while, to recover parts of yourself after loss, you might feel like you've lost yourself completely sometimes. And So being able to just reach out and connect with other people and help, helped me with my kind of get some identity back as well.

Victoria Volk 9:46

What do you think you discovered about yourself through those years of healing that you didn't maybe believe about yourself before?

Elizabeth Catignani 9:54

I think I certainly realized that how capable I was of just allowing vulnerability and letting that be my strength and I would always kind of before my losses really looked to others, to help me through certain things and. I was the youngest child in my family. So I always felt I had other people to look up to guide the way and show me the way. And as I went through this process and learned more about myself I realized I have a lot more strength and wisdom. Then I think I gave myself credit for just listening to my heart and trusting that I would get the support I need if I reached out for it. I became a little more assertive, a little more less afraid in certain ways, realizing how short life is and how precious, every moment that we have. It goes so quickly. It just flies by so fast. And I think I wouldn't have had the guts before to go after certain things. I don't think I would've had the guts to go after a nonprofit or, to meet, to start a group for women. I hadn't really seen myself in a leadership role before. And so suddenly I just had this fire in me of, I think it was just all the built up feelings and emotions, with the grief you have all of it, it's no particular order. You have the anger and the sadness and it's just such a roller coaster. And I think I just had so much bottled up. I just needed to do something creative with it. And so I really just followed that creative energy and. I was like, I need to build, I need to do something with this. otherwise I'm just gonna implode. Being able to channel that into something that could hopefully empower other people on their path that just became such a light for me and it just filled me with a lot of hope and it brought me a lot of peace and joy especially through those earlier years. And it brings me a lot of deep peace today to still be able to help in any way I can.

Victoria Volk 11:58

What do you think is different from you or, and other grievers that you've met along the way? Cause I think to myself, like how can there be some people, some grievers who experience really incredible, deeply painful losses and they end up in this really dark hole for. Decades. And then you have this other person who seems to from the outside, like bounce back and not bounce back. Cause I hate that. I hate referring it to that way. But like you said, there's like a shift, there's like the light switch goes on in your brain and you just choose differently for yourself. And so what do you think, was it for you that shifted in your mindset? Because really it is a mindset to go from, probably not being able to get out of bed most days to getting outta bed.

Elizabeth Catignani 12:58

Yeah. I did, I will say I did spend at least the first six weeks after my husband died in bed. It was. Painful to wake up. I just wanted to be sleeping all the time to escape the feelings. And it was a very gradual process. It's not like I just bounced up in a few months and was like, oh, I'm gonna go do all this stuff. And I've got all this energy. It was absolutely nothing like that. It started out slow. I remember I found a meeting group online for young widows it was like a safe, was in my own little space and I was able to still connect with others online and see what their experiences were and their feelings. And that was my way of inching back into the world a little bit. And I took my daughter, when she was like seven months old. I would take her out on a walk at least a few times a week. That was my getting out into the world. And I would be relieved if I didn't run into a single person as I went on these walks and I just wanted to be in nature. I wanted to be around, just the trees and the animals and feel like I could just exist and not have to worry about any sort of judgment or what anyone else might think of me. I didn't wanna even see other families being happy. I felt like I really needed to protect myself. And so it was a very gradual process. I slowly started after that doing one-on-one therapy and I probably went through another. Six months of that before I felt any sort of energy toward even creating something myself with the support group. But I really think it's such an individual process. And I think that for me, at least the personal, the one on one therapy I think was really what helped me the most initially to not just want to close off from the world and shut myself away and retreat into the darkness because I did have someone challenging me to stay living, to stay in the life and Helping me feel and remind me that I have purpose and that I'm still a whole person, despite my losses. And I needed to have that being a constant reminder. Cause if you don't have someone rooting for you or allowing you to process, I think it's a lot harder to get out of that state of just complete defeat and just feeling like allowing the loss to almost just fully encompass you and to not see the other side to get into that darkness. So I think finding that support early, I remember my sister found me and my therapist cause I wasn't looking, I was in bed and she found her for me. She said I think you should go try to see this woman and. See what happens. And I was like, okay, you can drive me cause I was so overwhelmed. I couldn't even drive myself places at the beginning, so I literally had my sister take me to my counseling appointments to start with. So having that push was very helpful and necessary early on. And eventually, that evolved into the support groups and meeting other people. But I've met women in the support groups I ran, there were some widows that would come in and they would say, my husband died five years ago and I'm just now ready. To talk about it and I'm just now ready to share my story. And they hadn't felt that they had a safe space to do that before that. So it's really such an individual process, I know they all say, the first year is foggy and then second years this but it's very personal. It depends on a lot of circumstances. And what kind of support you have around you and and I was so grateful that the women had showed up that had waited a long time cause they found a lot of healing after just having all this stuff bottled up for so long. There's no right or wrong way to grieve. There's no handbook that can say this is where you should be on this date or this is how you should feel at this point. And I think it's just so important to give ourselves grace for that. At some point reach out for help, especially if you do feel like you're getting into too much into the darkness. There are amazing resources out there.

Victoria Volk 17:07

The piggyback on what you said because it took me over 30 years, so that's my personal experience. But anybody that I've ever worked with, man, I wish I'd have done this sooner because if you really think about it's never too late and it's never too soon to like work through your grief, and although I completely a hundred percent agree, there is no timeline and time just passes. It's what you do in that time. What I think about is the opportunities the life that you miss when. You spend your days in fear of what going to that place will be like. And I think that's what keeps people stuck is the fear of what that's gonna feel like what's gonna happen after that. Okay, I work through all this stuff and then what, and I think that's really what keeps people stuck in their grief.

Elizabeth Catignani 18:07

I totally agree with that. I absolutely agree with that. And I still certainly struggle with anxiety to this day. I always have fears that something will happen to my loved ones to my children. It's very easy to go to those places in my mind. And so it's really been a lot of personal work with a lot of almost, when I find myself going there. Going to tools that I've learned, whether it's an affirmation or breathing, or maybe I have to make a phone call. I still have a life coach to this day that I absolutely adored. I speak to her once a week. And just getting back to a place that feels safe and grounded. My affirmation for this year was I am safe. And especially with this pandemic we've had going on. That of course adds another layer to anxiety. And there's been so much loss over the past few years. There's so much suffering right now and it's easy to get caught up in that energy and to feel overwhelmed. And, just on top of that, so many of us have been isolated. I've been Basically a stay at home mom the last couple years during this whole thing with my kids and not seeing many people, there was a time I wasn't seeing much family. And that can really just heighten that anxiety and that fear. And so creating a space around me that I feel comfortable in having books that I can turn to, that are soothing, having podcasts that I can listen to, to support me getting out and taking a long walk or getting some form of movement, moving the body. There's just so many incredible ways we can channel that fear and channel that anxiety so that it doesn't overwhelm and take over. So that's something that I. Have certainly spent years working through after my losses. And it still pops up, very frequently. And I'm always looking at new ways to manage it and and there's nothing wrong with that. We all have to find, stay creative with our resources and maybe something will work for a little while and then you'll find, okay, it doesn't work for me anymore, so I need to try something else. And so just being open to trying different ways cause yeah, especially after having the worst happen it's very easy to just assume like that's always gonna be the situation to go there. So it's a lot of self care, a lot of checking in pretty much daily with yourself and saying, what do I need right now? What can I do right now for myself I

Victoria Volk 20:37

think with grief, it's really about getting back to the basics. Just get that and people, when I mention meditation, it sometimes it's okay, there's another one that says meditation. Right? but just the basics, back when, before the internet, before all the stuff that we have in our lives, people would garden and they would garden for hours, or they would be out in the fields. Or they would, be laboring and then they would come, they worked hard and then they rested. And we just have lost the basics of balance in our lives. And I've really had to learn that myself. Yeah, just what does balance look like for me today? Looking at your calendar and looking at those special days coming up or the anniversaries and how can I balance what I know is coming emotionally? How can I balance that with self care

Elizabeth Catignani 21:36

I think, it doesn't have to be a big, complicated situation. I think especially people that, are grieving. I feel like we put so much pressure on ourselves, to do things perfectly and like to honor an anniversary perfectly or it can be very simple. It can be so simple. Like every year for me. Anyway, when you mentioned anniversaries, I was thinking about how every year is so very different in the way that I experience it and the feelings that come up. And there are some years where I don't feel like I need to make a big announcement about it. I don't need to go on social media and say this big monologue about my memories or my feelings. And there's some times when I just really wanna to honor it personally and not feel like I have to go blasting it, out there. And I feel like some of the women I've met, they feel like they have to honor them a certain way or and some people love that. Some people wanna do the balloon release or they go to the Memorial site or They write poetry in their honor and, it's whatever serves you, it's whatever you need to help you through that day. And that you can honor your loved one in a way that feels right for you. And I used to feel so much pressure and the anticipation would just overwhelm me and I realized, why am I doing this? I don't need to prove anything to anyone I don't need to put on a show for anybody. And so this past year, some of the anniversaries I've passed through they were just very private for me. And that just felt energetically the best for me. I would go on a walk or I'd just talk to them and say a few words and feel their energy. And that was what felt right at that time. So I do think that. We can easily overcomplicate grief and what we think we need to do, or, oh this meditation is supposed to do that. So I have to go do that meditation or if it doesn't feel right or you're feeling like you're forcing it, then it's probably not what you need. Then maybe you just, need a relaxing bath or you need a nap or because you're exhausted. Grieving is exhausting. So I think we all need to give ourselves a little grace with like you said, just going back to some basics, if you have a green thumb, spending some time in your yard and it doesn't have to be this fancy thing.

Victoria Volk 23:50

For some people gardening like flowers, having a flower garden, nurturing something to full bloom, that can be very meditative. It can be a meditative experience for someone too, so meditation is not just sit up. And it doesn't have to be so structured like that. There's so many different ways to do it and there's no right or wrong way either. And yeah, if you have trouble turning off the monkey brain it's a practice. It's not gonna happen the first time. And then you think you're doing it wrong and then you're judging yourself and shaming yourself and then you don't do it again. It's a practice. Just like everything is a practice. Self care is a practice. Committing to it is a practice.

Elizabeth Catignani 24:30

Yes. I love what you're saying though. One of my favorite sayings. And it's a grief course that I took. One of the instructors said it's a practice, not a perfect. And I always repeat that to myself when what I'm feeling, I'm not doing something correctly or I'm not treating this. I'm just like, okay, just chill. It's a practice nothing is perfect.

Victoria Volk 24:52

I think here's the thought that came to me as I was listening to you, is that it sounds like to me that you had some really clear boundaries for yourself and what came down my mind as well is being a young widow. I would imagine that pressure that you felt whether externally or internally, that you felt being a young widow I can imagine that you would have to feel like you have to have this extravagant show being young, it was a young loss and honoring that, and he's was the father of your child. And if somehow, like just that self judgment that we feel, whether it's true or not, you still might feel that. And I just wanted to highlight the fact that you had very clear boundaries. And so what would you suggest to those who may be really struggling with that and how to maybe implement those boundaries with others? Because that can be really tricky.

Elizabeth Catignani 25:46

Yeah in the beginning it definitely took me a while to learn how to establish those boundaries because especially with being that he had been in the military and the military is. Just one big community. And there was an online Facebook page set up in his honor and just a lot of people wanted to grieve together, and honor him together. And while that was beautiful, it could also be very overwhelming for me, cause I felt like I had a lot of eyes on me. How is she handling this? What is she doing next? Like how do we continue to honor? And it was just very much on some levels too much for me, cause I was just like, I really need time to process this on my own instead of handling and hearing about everyone else's grief on top of just trying to deal with my own.

Victoria Volk 26:32

Did you feel like you were expected to show up for that stuff?

Elizabeth Catignani 26:36

Yeah, there were ceremonies to attend and every year there's ceremonies that are offered for us to attend. And in the very early stages, I showed up to these and I was just in a complete days. I was just out of body experience going to some Memorial services. And it was just almost like attending funeral after funeral in my mind. And I was just like I can't keep reliving this over and over again, it was just almost debilitating to a degree. At some point decided I needed to take a little bit of a step back and, not push myself that I have to show up at all these events. And while I'm grateful that they are happening and that he continues to be remembered and honored. I also have to remember to respect where I'm at too, and know that cause I can tell, at this point, like in my grief, how I'm going to handle something, and so sometimes needing to put up boundaries where you're like, okay, I appreciate the invite, I need time for my own reflection right now and my own self care. So not always feeling like you have to be present at everything which, of course that comes with the dose of guilt easily, but it also just comes down to your own sanity. And just having to give yourself grace to grieve in the way you need to cause no one else can fully understand your position and what you're going through and what you're feeling. When my late husband died, we had a private funeral service here locally for him. And there was another separate service in his home state. And I was so weak because I had traveled to Germany to be with him and had just gotten back. And I still had, my six month old daughter waiting for me to take care of her and I was sick and weak. And I remember having to make that decision that I cannot travel to the other state to do both services. So I asked them to have one for me here so that I could have a proper Memorial for him here. And cause I just was in no state to keep going. And just having to make those decisions was very hard, I worried about what people would think very much and down the road there were times when I had to speak up and Tell people, be more vocal about what my boundaries were which was not comfortable. I like to be a mediator. I like to keep people, I've have a history of people pleasing and so having to step out of that people pleasing role and and say I'm not comfortable with this or that. Or there were even some friends that I lost along the way, because they didn't really know how to be there. And they felt awkward and uncomfortable. And somehow those relationships just fizzled out and, normally I wouldn't have probably let that happen, but I just knew I'm like, I just need, the right people around me right now. And so that might mean losing some people So that was an interesting experience, too, just having to accept that, not, everyone's gonna be able to stand by you but those that can they're incredible. And I have amazing friendships that I made after those losses. There's the people that can stand with you in that are gold.

Victoria Volk 29:41

Yeah. They say you're a sum of the five people you surround yourself with. And I think with grief it's especially important to really refine your circle around you if you don't feel better after you leave the presence of those people maybe they're not right for you at this time. Maybe they will be later, and people fade in and fade out and that's okay. One aspect too, I hadn't really given much thought to until our conversation. I'm a veteran too, but I wouldn't have imagined I never gave much thought to the fact that, if you lose a spouse in the military, you have your family, you have your spouse's family, but yeah. Then you do have this extended military family and it is a brotherhood or sisterhood. And yeah, I just never really thought much about that and how that could influence maybe be more added stress of what you just described. Thank you for your sacrifices as a spouse. Someone in the military. I know the family sacrifices too. But so much goodness in what you just shared you've shared the challenges you've shared a lot of the things that helped you and the boundaries and things that helped you shift your perspective gave a lot of tips. Was there any advice that you personally received from someone that I think you even said that too, there was that quote you mentioned

Elizabeth Catignani 31:06

The practice, not a perfect. Yeah. And then also early on, I was really fortunate to meet this. She was my first friend that was also a widow. She had lost her husband, probably I think it was just a few months before mine had died. So we were we were around the same time period, as far as that. But she just really gave me permission to be where I was with what I was feeling. She reminded me to, if I just needed someone there with me and they didn't have to say anything, if I just needed a presence that she would do that for me, I can remember her showing up to my door one day with a big chocolate milkshake and no plans, Hey, I'm just here just letting you know and, she would sit with me and just, if I needed to talk, she would just let me talk. And it was just such a nice companionship to have, because it was just reminding me that, where I was okay. And to have just that feeling of support, even if that person didn't have to say anything, Being there. Cause you know, after that first influx of people calling or cards or, just that initial reaction to the loss it can feel like all the sudden people just have moved on with their lives and forgotten. And so just having someone there for after that period of time was just incredibly therapeutic to know that, even though maybe the rest of everyone else is moving forward, I'm still dealing with this and it's okay. And I'm allowed to be in that space still. And so just giving ourselves permission to do our journey it's gonna be messy. It's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be up and down. But it's each our own journey and it should be honored.

Victoria Volk 32:41

And we all agree at a hundred percent. There's no half grievers. Yeah. And I'm curious what was the difference or similarities too, between the grief that you felt after the loss of your son versus the loss of your husband?

Elizabeth Catignani 32:55

I don't think there was a huge difference other than it just felt like an additional emptiness cause when that person leaves it just, the whole world feels empty. And I can just recall that sense of just complete loneliness and emptiness because having had that shared grief with my spouse and then suddenly not even having him to talk to about the death of our son anymore, Ted, that one person that could really connect with you on that intimate level of shared grief. That was just like another, just complete. Stabbed to the heart. I don't think there was a lot different other than just feeling that additional, all those extra losses cause with the main loss you just lose so much else. There's just so many layers of loss that goes along with it that you wouldn't have even considered. But yeah, just that emptiness, because I remember my arms just feeling empty, empty after my son died empty after Brian died and I just felt very lost, and in both situations and one is not worse than the other, they're both awful in their own way. And so it was just. Okay, starting over again. like how many chapters, how many books am I gonna have? I never would've imagined that I would've had so many by this age, but it's just, we can't control. We can only control how we react and how we heal and how we respond. And just, that was one of the huge wake up calls for me was how little control I had over life in general. Just wow. Things just happened. It doesn't matter if you're good or a bad person, they just happen. And you just can't drive the ship but you can choose how you manage the aftermath

Victoria Volk 34:39

comes back to how we first started this podcast and how we can plan our lives. And rarely do our lives turn out how we plan. And grief is cumulative and it's cumulatively negative. It's what we say in grief recovery. And that's why your losses stack up, like luggage in your body or box, if you have a backpack of rocks and we carry that stuff forward with us, those losses, all the losses. You need to like, move that out somehow. And you said implode that's what we say in grief recovery too. It's either you implode or you explode. Let's say I gave you a mic and you just had the floor of the world. What would you like to scream to the world and wish people knew?

Elizabeth Catignani 35:23

Ooh. There's so much I could say about it. I guess one of the things that first comes to mind is just, life is just so short and if we spend more time in just the space of love and gratitude and you never know what tomorrow's gonna bring, you never know what's around the corner. And just really holding on to the small moments. That's really where I find a lot of my joy these days is just those, little moments, whether it's my daughter giving me a hug or saying, I love you. Or it's not about what you do or who your title or whatever projects you're working on, life is now and and it's just who you are that really matters and what energy you give to the world. That truly matters. Cause we're all in this. I feel like we get so caught up in do, and have to do things a certain way or we're always comparing or we get so wrapped up in social media and comparisons and other people's lives, how they compare and it's just such a waste of time. It's just, being in the now is such a challenge these days. But I think it's just so important to find those moments throughout the day to ground yourself and to remember where you are and who you are and creating those connections with the people you love the most. And that mean the most to you, just getting to the heart of life. I feel just being aware of those moments cause it's just, when I look back, I think the most random, small moments are what I hold hold onto, like just memories. I never would've thought would be a big deal, but nothing grandiose, it's just so just remembering to have some gratitude for just getting to wake up each day and even if things don't go great having gratitude for the small moments of the things that are going well and think your health just those things just are something that I really try to focus on. So much in my life now are just. Those small moments. I'm like, oh, the sun coming in through the window right now is beautiful. And I can feel the warmth and, just having a moment with that cause that's life happening right there.

Victoria Volk 37:32

And I think too what you ended up doing for yourself was you connected to yourself first, which then enabled you to fully connect with others and maybe even to receive love again, because I recognize that there was a timeframe in there after your husband passed and before you have remarried, did you make that conscious choice and intention to give yourself the time and space before you decided to be open to receiving love in that way again

Elizabeth Catignani 38:10

I did. Definitely focused on trying to figure that out. I did date a bit afterward, of course, I went through several relationships that were not the healthiest feeling situations. And I realized afterwards that I had needed more time for myself to heal and reconnect because I had been reaching for something outside of myself to fill that void. And I always have told other widows, there's no timeline of like, when you can start dating again or looking, searching and you need human connection. You wanna, feel in partnership. There's nothing wrong with that. But it's also harder to find a healthy version of that if you are not healthy within yourself. And so I did Experience a lot of let downs and find myself in situations where I was just, cause I was just trying to rush I think. And so it took some some lessons there for me to realize, okay, I need step back and reflect on where I'm at and my grief and my healing and give myself this a little more space before I'm able to invite that in cause I wasn't giving out the right energy. I wasn't receiving the energy I needed and deserved. That's when the right guy came along for me, the right partner. And that's also another area where I think we need to not be too hard on ourselves, cause you're trying to grieve and trying to find a new relationship and trying to navigate, relationships are complicated in general, so add on, the loss of your spouse before that. And it's just like very overwhelming parenting and finding the right person. That's gonna be a good co-parent with you and match that style. There's so many layers and levels. So it can be very complicated and it is about really having to connect with yourself first and remember who, find yourself and who you are because that's, what's gonna attract the right person to you. And so that's something, it took me a while to figure out So that was like a whole other several chapters of my life. Figuring that out was a mess like, oh my gosh, I have to go back into this dating world again. Nobody wants to have to do, I just remember dreading it. But yeah, after I gave myself a little more space and paid attention to what I needed I was able to find a healthy relationship again.

Victoria Volk 40:25

So you intuitively knew because you were dreading it, right? Yeah. And we don't listen to those calls in our bodies. Like your voice in your head was saying, no, not now. Not yet. You're dreading it. You're not ready, and so we just try to push that voice down that intuition. And how do you get in touch with your intuition is you connect to yourself? Yes. And so definitely the word that comes up for me when I heard you say where I heard you talking about that is patience. You just have patience with yourself. Yes. And you need a process.

Elizabeth Catignani 40:58

Yes. And patience I've always had a struggle with patience in my life.

Victoria Volk 41:02

Must do many of us do, and especially in grief and especially with losses, so close to each other and really the loss of a child. I just had a conversation yesterday with a woman. I was crying the whole time. I can't even imagine I have three kids I cannot imagine. And nobody wants to, and that's why it can be so uncomfortable for so many people to put themselves in those shoes. Yeah. And I think that's why so many relationships or friendships do fall away because it's like a mirror to them,

Elizabeth Catignani 41:34

yeah. Nobody wants to have those thoughts or to know that can be a reality. And, I can't really blame them so yeah being able to find a partner that could, be strong within himself to know my story and to accept cause afterwards I was like, gosh, who's gonna want me with all my baggage and this story that I have and all this heartache. And that's a lot. I was like this, I'm a single mom, that's a lot for somebody to take on. And I was like, who's gonna want this and I had to learn that those things were not my fault and it's just my story. There were things that happened to me. It didn't mean that was who I was or that. I was a terrible mess or anything, it was just honoring that this had been my journey and that I was doing the best that I could. And to just be an honor of that. And it's possible there's people out there the man I'm married to, he's got a huge heart and just fully comfortable within himself and can completely, honor. This was my story, I can talk about my late husband and not feel awkward about it if it comes up. I think it's important to be in a situation where you feel like your story can live freely and be honored and to not have to feel like you have to hide it or to tuck it away or feel ashamed, if it's something that just happened to you, it's life we all do the best we can and we create the best out of our situations that we can. And so I think. That's important to realize too, is that you're still worthy. You're worthy of love. You're worthy of joy and happiness, no matter what kind of loss you've gone through, you still deserve that.

Victoria Volk 43:14

I wanna touch on something cause I think is very important. Your daughter had a loss too, despite not knowing him only through what you share with her and through pictures and words and videos and stories and things. What would you like to share about that experience? Like parenting a child through that it's one thing for a child to know who they're missing, but then to not know really. Different type of grief experience.

Elizabeth Catignani 43:43

It definitely is. And I've just had to figure that out as we've gone along the way. I've always like when she was very little, I had a picture of him and her in her room and always open to talking about it. Or if something comes up that reminded me of something he might have said or done. I'll say it to her. I'll say oh, your daddy, Brian would've thought this or done that or I would tell her stories of when she was a baby and just little moments of him with her that I can recall. And so it just comes up naturally in conversation on different days. And so I do what I can to keep him alive for her, his presence there. And I have a beautiful scrap book, like a memory book that I made to have, like I have from his childhood all the way up till when he died. And there's like newspaper clippings and photos. And so it's something that as she grows older, I think she'll process the loss in different ways as she ages and reaches different stages of her life cause I know it's not as maybe real to her right now, as he's like this mysterious dream I feel like in a way. So I've just as best I can just made it comfortable for her to bring up whatever. There were some beautiful like pictures and objects made in his honor, like this beautiful carved wooden flag that she can put in her room or she can take, grow up and take with her to her own home one day or like a painting that he bought that I have up. And then she's also read my book that I wrote. So she really does know A lot of the story. And so that's just always been important to me is that it's a safe thing to talk about that it doesn't have to be ever uncomfortable and that's just been my approach and then she does have an older half sister that she's five years older. She does remember him very well. And so they've had a good relationship. And I think she gets a lot of nice stories through her older sister too, which is great. But yeah, I think it's really about just keeping the subject open, keeping his memory alive. And she asks about him now, and then if she has, questions or it's evolved throughout the years, but I'll mention, today's the anniversary do you wanna talk about anything or do you wanna honor in some way? But yeah, it's not the same as if she had known him. We don't really we can't have those conversations about, or, remember when, it's just then seeing how, she grows with it and evolves with it over the years. And I just, try to keep the conversation open.

Victoria Volk 46:13

She also lost a brother too.

Elizabeth Catignani 46:15

She did. Yes, and I do mention him a lot as well. And that's another thing that I think over time, it'll become a part of her in a certain way. And she might honor it in her own way as she gets older as well. So yeah I think it's important to just to be real about it, just as painful and uncomfortable and sad as it is. This is what happened. This is part of your story too. And I think it'll help her figure out, understand herself maybe as she gets older

Victoria Volk 46:45

The experience of a child griever versus first experience in grief in adulthood, it is very different. I'm a child griever. So you grow up with that knowledge like it, and it helps you. I can look back now, but it helps you to mature really in ways that you didn't ask for, but it's a very different type of feeling of grief. I think it's an intimate part of who you are essentially. What is your son's name?

Elizabeth Catignani 47:17

His name was Toki brian. He was a nickname for an Australian teammate that Brian had overseas and we like unique names. So I actually think that's really cute. We'll do that. Yeah.

Victoria Volk 47:31

I didn't know how to ask that. I'm gonna bring this up on the podcast because maybe other people are wondering that too, but I wanted to ask what was his name, but he's still in your heart, right? What is his name? And so that's why I asked it in that way so for anyone listening,

Elizabeth Catignani 47:50

I love that. Yes. He's always, there always feel his presence.

Victoria Volk 47:54

He'll always be your Tookie.

Elizabeth Catignani 47:55

He'll always be my son. And it is something that, he made me a mom, he was my firstborn and, wherever he is, cause it is something that whenever, you get asked, oh how many kids do you have? Or it depends on the situation, but most of the time, I'll just acknowledge, oh, I've got two, two daughters but there's that party you that's just actually I have three kids. I've got a son too, and it's not always the most, I'm like, oh, do I really wanna go there and depending on who I'm talking to, do I wanna bring this up? cause it's instantly oh, you're like a little bit shocking to whoever you're saying it to. And so that is a sadness that I carry people see me with my two children, but I really have three and that will always sting in my heart cause yeah, I want him to be acknowledged and yeah it's like if you're in conversation with somebody out of no, you don't really know them. It's something that I'm not always oh, I'm just gonna drop that. Oh, I have a son in heaven or an afterlife and got these two. But I know that's a pain, I'm sure a lot of parents carry that have lost a child.

Victoria Volk 49:00

You could say. I have two living daughters and I have one angel son and don't feel the need to say anything.

Elizabeth Catignani 49:12

I like that. Yeah.

Victoria Volk 49:14

Then you let them off the hook, but yet you're honoring.

Elizabeth Catignani 49:17

Yes. That's a good, I like that. I like that sounds very nice. How you said that.

Victoria Volk 49:25

Yeah. Good. Is there anything else that you would like to share?

Elizabeth Catignani 49:30

I don't think so. I feel like this has been a really lovely conversation and I hope that it's been helpful to who's ever listening. But yeah it's been an honor to be here with you.

Victoria Volk 49:42

Thank you. It's been my honor to hear your story. So thank you for being my guest. Where can people find you if they would like to connect?

Elizabeth Catignani 49:51

I have a website it's called hercreativewellness.com and you can also find me on Instagram at the same handle. And also my book, creative grieving, you can find that on my website and also it's available on Amazon and the audiobook version is gonna be available I believe, near the end of the month. So I'm excited about that.

Victoria Volk 50:19

We didn't talk about this, but if you can briefly describe what is the difference between a certified creative grief coach and say someone like me I wouldn't say I'm a coach either. I don't know what I am grief guide I don't know, but what is the distinction, if you could share?

Elizabeth Catignani 50:36

So what we really focus on is with the creative side of expressing your grief different. And it's interesting because I know some people may feel like they're not creative at all, or have a creative bone in their body. But I truly believe that anybody has creativity within them and it doesn't mean you're an artist or you have to be focused on any medium or anything, but. Just finding different ways to process your grief. And it can be through different techniques, like whether it's through a diagram or a drawing or colors or doing something outside processing it through movement. It's really about trying different tools and seeing what fits for you. There's just so many ways we can channel our grief and I'm always looking for new unique ways that resonate with me, and that might help someone else because it really is a mind, body spiritual experience on so many levels. And so really addressing all those different areas of our being as a whole through this integrative process I think is very important. Cause we really do hold, we can carry it a lot in our bodies. We can feel it, our aches and pains, one of the women that used to work at the respite center she was a grief massage therapist. So she specialized in helping people that had gone through loss and she had a very specific technique for giving them a massage. That was very in tune with, certain anxieties they might have or fear of touch that they might have or setting the mood a certain way with music or lighting and things like that. Just approaching it differently. It's things like that, that I find amazing and that there even available cause there are so many different ways to express yourself through your healing. And like for me, like this past year, I really got into photography and I took a photography course online and I just found this amazing piece in capturing flowers and different seasons and just working with color and it just being able to capture memories in that way. So there's just so many unique outlets that we might not typically think about when we can process, what we've been through and also to find joy in the moment. And so yes, I really to emphasize that we're all creative in some way, and that using our creativity I think it's a really important way that we can help ourselves on our healing path.

Victoria Volk 53:02

And it's a muscle that you have to flex. I have to use it in order to like, let it come out.

Elizabeth Catignani 53:09

exactly. Yes.

Victoria Volk 53:10

Actually there was a traveling project that was going to the different military outpatient clinics. And I had seen it when I had a doctor's appointment at the VA one time. And what it was veterans would have like do like a paper mache of their face, like an imprint. And they would paint the face in as a reflection of what they were feeling.

Elizabeth Catignani 53:35

Oh, that's okay.

Victoria Volk 53:36

Like face that they presented to others. What does that look like? What am I, how am I showing up with this pain on my face? I just got goosebumps again, thinking about it because especially with military service it's loss and there's so much loss. I just thought it was a brilliant idea for a project.

Elizabeth Catignani 53:56

Wow. That's really, that's incredible.

Victoria Volk 54:00

yeah. I could see that with like trauma victims. Even just any grief, right? Just any kind of grief I'll try and find the link. I don't know that was a couple years ago, but it might inspire, the work that you're doing with people. So I'll try and find the link for you and if I do find it, I will put it in the show notes too, because if it's still out there, I think it' be really see how other people are channeling their creativity in their grief.

Elizabeth Catignani 54:27

Absolutely. I love that.

Victoria Volk 54:29

Anything else you'd like to share?

Elizabeth Catignani 54:31

I don't think so. I think I tried to share a lot what was in my heart and yeah it's been an amazing conversation.

Victoria Volk 54:38

I agree. Thank you so much. And remember when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life much. Love.