DEBBIE WILLIAMS's Podcast
DEBBIE WILLIAMS's Podcast
Tracing Family History
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My guest this week is Paul Crooks who pioneered research into African Caribbean genealogy during the 1990s. He traced his family history from London, back 6 generations, to ancestors captured of the West African coast and enslaved on a sugar plantation in Jamaica.
Paul gained national recognition for his work when his acclaimed historical novel Ancestors was published in 2002. He appeared on Who Do You Think You Are? (Moira Stuart) as the expert in African Caribbean genealogy. His second book A Tree Without Roots is the seminal guide to tracing African, British and Asian Caribbean ancestry. Listen to find out more!
Links: https://paulcrooks.info
debbiewilliamspodcast.com
Okay, that's the way I'm gonna come. This week's guests pioneered research into African Caribbean genealogy during the nineteen nineties. He traced his family history from London back six generations to ancestors captured off the west coast of Africa and enslaved on a sugar plantation in Jamaica. He gained national recognition for his work when his acclaimed historical novel Ancestors, based on a true story of his African ancestors, was published in 2002. He appeared on Who Do You Think You Are with Maurice Stewart as the expert in African Caribbean genealogy. His second book, A Tree Without Roots, is the seminal guide to tracing African, British and Asian Caribbean ancestry. He is credited with inspiring an upsurge in interest in black and British ancestry. He is also recognised for having spawned an industry in African Caribbean genealogy. Please welcome Paul Crooks. Hello, Paul, and welcome to the podcast. Hi, thanks for inviting me on. Paul, you are pioneered as being the first person to research the African Caribbean genealogy. Can you tell us a bit more about your journey?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, my journey started, I guess, when I was about six years old. Started with conversations that I had with my dad about his growing up in Jamaica and a place called Black River. And my dad's a very proud Jamaican. And so when he talked about Black River, he talked about, you know, he was very proud of his roots, very proud of his family. Used to say that the Crookses sort of ruled St. Elizabeth. I don't know whether that was true, in fact, probably wasn't actually, but that's how he felt about growing up in Black River. I remember asking him more about the family, because he said there were loads of us that lived in St. Elizabeth and where we came from. And if you like that sort of triggered my whole interest and curiosity in finding out about the family, who we were, where we came from. And it was a number of years later when roots were screened on television, which I found totally, totally inspirational. It was when that miniseries was screened about Alex Haley, an African American who traces roots back to Africa. That's what really gave me the momentum to want to sort of take this further. And it took me 13 years searching for my ancestry through the sort of late 1980s all the way through the 90s up to when I published my book Ancestors in 2002. So that in a nutshell is sort of what my journey sort of entailed, the triggers for wanting to sort of pursue this.
SPEAKER_01What obstacles did you face along your journey?
SPEAKER_00I suppose the main obstacle was because I certainly hadn't heard of anybody who had done the Alex Haley thing and traced their roots. So the main obstacle was trying to locate sources of information. The only book that I'd uh heard of relating to black genealogy was Alex Haley's roots. There was nothing out there relating to anybody who wanted to trace the African Caribbean roots and follow that journey that Alex Haley followed, which is you know, to go from one continent to another right the way back to the African continent. They didn't exist. So my major challenge was really tracking down the sources of information, which when I started out, I didn't even know whether they actually existed. And so that's what I mean when we talk about sort of pioneering, going somewhere where nobody has ventured before, and you have no idea whether you're it's going to lead you into the abyss or to your ultimate goal of tracing African ancestors. So that was my major struggle to begin with.
SPEAKER_01And you were the first person to use public records to actually trace your genealogy in the UK.
SPEAKER_00That's right. If you sort of understand the history of genealogy, certainly for African Caribbeans, you will know that I mean when I started my journey in late 1980s, I think uh the internet was probably a twinkle in somebody's eye. It hadn't been birthed yet. So if you were going to do this kind of thing, and in fact, I'll say um that about DNA, I think DNA discoveries being applied to genealogy really only happened in the late 1990s, if my reading is correct. So the only way you could do this thing, if you were going to do it, was to try and track down public records. Yes, so I was the first to track down the sources of information that existed in public records. Now that the internet has been invented and now that my book has been published, it is therefore possible to digitalise public records and ensure that it's available online. So the history is really if it doesn't exist in public records, it won't exist online. That's a basic tenant of genealogy, whether it be African genealogy or European genealogy, whatever, it has to exist on a public record before it can exist online.
SPEAKER_01Can I ask you? Because I've been to one of your talks before, and you mentioned that because a lot of people are using websites like Ancestry, DNA, and others to actually try and trace their family history, but you don't necessarily think that this is the only way to do this, or necessarily the right way to do this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I have views about this, having done both. I've done the DNA testing and I've done, you know, and I've traced using public records. I have views, and I, you know, I mean, I wouldn't want to be the sort of dream killer when talking about DNA testing, and I I sometimes I have to sort of like be mindful of that because DNA testing can be applied for good purposes. For example, it is probably the best way for confirming recent ancestry. And when I say recent ancestry, I'm saying that, you know, if you have somebody who thinks they're your cousin, but you're not sure, the public records don't seem to be available. The easiest and best way to test that is to do a DNA testing or autosomal testing, and that will tell you whether you both share a recent ancestor. By recent, I mean within the last four, possibly five generations. After five generations, it becomes inaccurate. Okay, so that's the first thing. And then I could go into the whole science of that, but I mean that is for a talk that I do another time. It's accurate going back, say five generations, enabling you to confirm a cousin or a second cousin or a third cousin, that sort of thing. Where and I I think I'll be blunt with my words on this one, where I think it's being missold is in the idea that it can tell you where in Africa your roots are. Okay, that's where it's being absolutely missold. And these companies are not coming clear with what a mitochondrial DNA test does for you, or what uh a Y chromosome test does for you. It gives you an impression of what it does, but they don't actually, I don't think even in their literature, they actually say exactly what you gain from this, and it's often left to people to I guess do their own research, which is not very helpful when you think that the companies have all these answers available about you know what its limitations are, and um and that's where I have the big problem when people are actually, you know, and you see this online a lot, especially on YouTube. Oh, I've just got my DNA test. I don't say whether it's mitochondrial or Y chromosome or autosomal, but it's usually the tracing the mother line or the father line back. And I am 60% Nigerian and 2% Ghanaian or something like that. That's when it's being missled because clearly the individuals that are declaring their results either have been paid by the companies or have no idea what it is they're actually is in their possession and what it's actually telling them. So, and as I could go more into the science on that, but that's my whole feeling. DNA is great if you're confirming recent ancestry, not so great if you're going down your mother line or your father line looking for your roots in Africa. Or in Europe for that matter, or anywhere else.
SPEAKER_01So you spent 13 years searching your family and you managed to find the exact village in Ghana where your family were originally from. What emotions did you experience along that journey?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I always find that one a very difficult one to answer. There is a cliched response, which I guess if you saw the Roots mini-series in the 70s, Alex Haley jumping around and with joy and euphoria. I certainly felt the euphoria. I just didn't know how to express it. You see, when you've gone on a journey and it and it's it's a pretty sort of lonely journey, there's nobody with you sharing the joys and the pains. When I came to the end, I I I remember walking along a street in South Kensington, and I just I went round a sort of quiet corner and I just punched the ear. I just jumped up in the air and punched the air, hoping that nobody would see me. And then I went home and I sort of explained to my my wife that I'd finally found the Holy Grail. And I guess there was a sudden low because actually the people around me didn't really fully sort of grasp what I felt I'd achieved. And and so there was a sort of after the euphoria came the sort of like the now what bit. That's when I decided that my feeling was after the euphoria had gone was the need to sort of share that information, the need to share it in a way that others would sort of at least partly share in the you know the happiness that I felt at um at coming to the end of my journey because it was a journey that I undertook by myself and and when I got past the finish line it was like winning the Olympic gold, really. I mean, how does how does that feel?
SPEAKER_01So you now dedicate your life helping others to trace their families. You provide a lot of free talks in libraries and other venues. What advice would you give to someone who is starting out on their journey?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, my advice would be to exhaust the oral history, and by that I mean spend as much time as you can possibly allocate to talking to the elders in the family and also family friends as well. People who knew your grandparents or even your great grandparents, and trying to sort of tease out as much information about names, dates, and places as you can, because names, dates, and places are the cornerstones of genealogy. If you don't have those three bits of information about the person you're pursuing, then it becomes all the more challenging. Not impossible, but all the more challenging, I'd say. So that'd be my main advice is to exhaust that. And when you've exhausted that, then you are ready to use public records, many of which is now online.
SPEAKER_01Paul Crooks, thank you very much for your time.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_01If you would like further information about tracing your family history, then please visit the website PaulCrooks.info or follow the link in the show notes.