Today, our special guest is Matthew Lee Sawyer. Matthew is the author of Making It in America and an expert on how international companies and entrepreneurs successfully enter and scale in U.S. markets. Matthew is also a Columbia NYU professor, a business marketing strategist who has a rich history helping many recognizable large companies build their brand. He is also the director of Rocket Market Development. Matthew has won many industry awards, including the gold and silver fees, and he has been recognized by the Wall Street Journal as a pioneer in digital marketing, and most recently, his book was spotlighted in Forbes.
We hope the topic of making it in America would provide some added value for our listeners.
We hope you will gain some valuable insight into the world of customs tariffs. With all the supply chain challenges the world is facing, our aim is to maximize your duty drawback dollars and boost your bottom line. We hope you'll subscribe to our podcast to stay current with each new episode in which will unveil numerous ways to improve your international trade profitability. Thanks for listening.
Today, our special guest is Matthew Lee Sawyer. Matthew is the author of Making It in America and an expert on how international companies and entrepreneurs successfully enter and scale in U.S. markets. Matthew is also a Columbia NYU professor, a business marketing strategist who has a rich history helping many recognizable large companies build their brand. He is also the director of Rocket Market Development. Matthew has won many industry awards, including the gold and silver fees, and he has been recognized by the Wall Street Journal as a pioneer in digital marketing, and most recently, his book was spotlighted in Forbes.
We hope the topic of making it in America would provide some added value for our listeners.
We hope you will gain some valuable insight into the world of customs tariffs. With all the supply chain challenges the world is facing, our aim is to maximize your duty drawback dollars and boost your bottom line. We hope you'll subscribe to our podcast to stay current with each new episode in which will unveil numerous ways to improve your international trade profitability. Thanks for listening.
Thank you for joining us today for our webinar on Making It in America. We will also be featuring this in our monthly Duty Drawback podcast. I'm Carrie Irwin and I am the director of Sales for International Tariff Management at ITM. We predominantly work with U.S. companies that have an international presence. However, because we are seeing more and more international companies expanding into the U.S. market, we thought we should shift a little bit to discuss what is the best way to enter the U.S. market. We have a special guest today who is an expert on how international companies and entrepreneurs successfully enter and scale in U.S. markets. We thought this would be a great topic to discuss, as well as provide some added value for our listeners. Today, our special guest is Matthew Lee Sawyer. Matthew is the author of Making It in America. Currently Making It in America is the number one international journal business book on Amazon. Matthew is also a Columbia NYU professor, a business marketing strategist who has a rich history helping many recognizable large companies build their brands. He is also the director of Rocket Market Development. Matthew has won many industry awards, including the gold and silver fees, and he has been recognized by the Wall Street Journal as a pioneer in digital marketing, and most recently, his book was spotlighted in Forbes. Welcome, Matthew. Well, welcome, Carrie. Thank you so much for having me and for introducing me to your your listeners. Yes. We're so excited to have you here to discuss your book, Making It in America. So could you tell the audience a little bit about yourself and tell us what your inspiration was for writing the book? Yeah, well, I think you covered in terms of, you know, my primary gig is is that I'm a professor. I teach at Columbia University and NYU. And in addition, I do some consulting work. And so back in 2016, I was doing a project for a company and a French company that wanted to come to the United States. And we successfully helped them. And they ended up going on and getting about $70 million from Goldman Sachs. But, you know, they really were, you know, struggling in terms of understanding the market. And then later on, I was helping some of the European American chambers of commerce. And this the the the problem or the issue of the complexity of the United States and is one that it was a need that I felt needed to be addressed. And then during the COVID period, I had some downtime. Yes. Along with, you know, a lot of other people. And I use that time to to write the book. I interviewed over 150 people and 40 different countries. And I learned a lot of along the way I met Trump tremendous people. And and the book just launched last last month and just launched today in Europe. Oh, that's great. We have good timing. I think what stands out for me is I've met many authors who discuss, you know, maybe one aspect of your book, such as American culture, where is Making It in America touches on so many important additional topics. It becomes like a guide or checklist. Also, I found the book is written in a concise, organized, and so easy to follow format. Well, thank you. Thank you. It was interesting. And since that one of the people that I talked to is it was he was an Italian who was living in Germany and he was running a a digital marketing agency. And they were they were all over Europe. And I said, you know, are you thinking about coming to the United States? Why don't you come to the United States? And he said to me, he said, I'd love to, but I don't even know where to start. So the book was written with him in mind and it sort of gives you an overview of all of the different areas. That's almost like a starting point. And then from there, you know, then you'd need to dig in, particularly in terms of the issues around whether it's legal aspects or finance or the area that that you guys are experts in and the whole, you know, tariff and all of our regulations regarding bringing products and into the into the country. Yeah. Classifying all. Of that. Yeah. So let me ask you, why do you think the U.S. is considered a sought after space for international business? Well, you know, the the big reason is, is that it is the you know, it's the biggest and the most lucrative market in the world. You know, we have a, you know, our GDP is over $26 trillion, which is more than $1,000,000,000,000 more than the second economy, which is China. And in addition, it's also the stable list. You know, there was a study that was done by Morgan Stanley, the chief economic economist, de Recherche Shamma, who looked at and the U.S. economy has been steady at 25% of the overall world economy for the past four decades. And then there are also a lot of other reasons in terms of the strong finance opportunities here. We have a relatively pro-government, both sides in terms of the both the Democratic and the Republican parties, and that Americans are very open to new things. They want the best in the world, they want the best talent. And we can also be very, very helpful to people coming here. Yeah. I agree. Do you what do you feel are the biggest misconceptions of doing business in the United States? Well, one of the biggest misconception is, is I remember talking to someone in Australia and he had a company that was in the U.S., some related to the green energy business. And he said, Oh, yeah, I'm coming to the United States. That's where I want to go, because it's one country, you know, with a huge market. Everyone speaks the same language. And, you know, I went to Europe where there are 40 different, you know, countries and lots of different languages. And, you know, that misperception and that it is one cohesive market is is is is wrong because it and, you know, it really is at the very least, it's 50 different markets with each state having its own governments and laws. Even cities have their own. Each region is very different in terms of climate, in terms of ethnic makeup. It's it's really thousands of different markets in the U.S.. It's so true. I mean, I am from Connecticut and I lived in Oregon when I was like a teenager for like a year. And I can remember saying asking for a grinder, which is could be a sub or, you know, so many different names for that. And they literally did not know what I was talking about. They're like, you want me to grind up meat? What do you mean? And I'm like, What do you mean you don't know what I want a sandwich. And then finally we figured out what I was asking for. But it's so true. I mean, even coming from here, it's different and can be a shock to go to different parts of the United States. Yeah. So one of the things in terms of my research is, is that I looked at and I read some terrific books. There was one in particular called American Nations by an author, Colin Woodard, and it talked about how the U.S. has never been one cohesive nation. It really it started from its very beginnings. It was 13 different colonies that came over. Each one of them was very different in terms of the ethnic makeup, the views, in terms of values and how that has somewhat persisted, you know, for a long time, for a long time, for many years. It wasn't until about 50 or 60 years ago that people had a lot more mobility and moved from one region to the other. But over the generations, those initial values that came in, whether it was the Puritans up in Massachusetts or here in New York, the Dutch, you know, who are very much in terms of all of that industry and trading, you know, was totally different. So looking at those origins was something that, you know, that really helped in terms of the, you know, you know, seeing the you know, what it's like now. Yeah. Well, speaking of that, let's discuss the importance of communication and how it can vary when it comes to business marketing, to consumer ears, networking. What can you tell us about that? Yes. So it's in some ways, I think that the U.S. is easy, easier for for for people coming here, because Americans are very straightforward. You know, one of the things is that we there is so much diversity. There's so much whether it's ethnic or or, you know, backgrounds, there's so much diversity. So what happens is that Americans tend to be very straightforward and in some cases, you know, very blunt. And, you know, as you know, the saying is, is that if you're going to give a presentation, the first thing as you tell them what you're going to say, you say it and then you just then afterwards you tell them what you just said or prefers to like in in in other countries, let's say Japan, where, you know, everyone has come from a very similar kind of background. And there is much more in terms of a nuance. And you don't have to use words as much. They use the saying as sort of, you know, reading the air. And so in some ways, it's, you know, so it's much harder in terms of going to other countries. So Americans tend to be very straightforward and blunt. Of course, you know, there are certain, you know, quirks and ways of doing business. And, you know, that has to be, you know, just seen and learned. But but for the most part, Americans are very open to people from other countries and languages. And we so I think that the communication is certainly an issue. But I think a lot of it is is is easier. I, I heard you discuss a coconut and peach analogy, which I thought was so true. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. So that came from one of the things is a chapter in the book which is talked about understanding Americans. And it actually starts out with a quote from someone who was a very senior level executive who was a French, came from France, very senior level executive at a major company. And his vote was is that I've been living in the United States for 25 years and I still don't understand Americans. But the the be the reference that you made in terms of the peach and the coconut came from. There was a woman, Aaron Meyer, who wrote a terrific book about the called The Culture Map, and it was in that book, and I used several for that chapter. But she talked about how in some countries, you know, that, you know, people are much more like a coconut in the sense that they in European countries where there's a hard shell. And it's difficult to then penetrate and get to know them. But after you do break, after you break that shell, you know, then people are very moral, warm and open and whatever, as opposed to a country like America, where people are tend to be on the surface, very easy to get along with, to to get to know. But then all of a sudden, getting down to something that might be personal or, you know, we, for example, would never talk. Americans hate to talk about their personal finances. Ask them, how much money do you make? And in that case, it's then it becomes like a hard shell. And you reach this pit where people just don't want to talk about it. So it's just a different way of understanding the cultures and and that's one of the things is that a lot of companies, a lot of executives that I talked to said that understanding the culture was one of the hardest parts for them. Yes, I could see that. Like even in business, I did a lot of work in the southern states. And and and when you're working in the southern states, it's so different from New York and and up north. I mean, 100% different. So in the South, I felt like you would sit, you would talk before you ever discussed business. You just had to develop your rapport first. And it could take a while. Right. And then they kind of would let you know, okay, we're going to talk about business now. Whereas I felt the opposite up north of where you get in, you talk about what you're going to talk about, and then after you can kind of relax and develop a rapport. Yeah. Yeah. Complete opposite. Well, yeah. Although I think in some ways, in talking to various people in terms of coming here, in terms of negotiating, you know, Americans for the most part, you know, it's sort of we have this win win mentality. So it's a negotiation. It's like, well, we want to win, but it's okay if other people win, too. Yes. And, you know, and knowing that and then, you know, if it's a negotiation, if it's a discussion or whatever is sort of knowing, that is a good way to sort of, you know, be able to come to a common ground. Yes. Somehow for you, America is considered a melting pot with so many cultures within America. Are there any defined rules when dealing with Americans? Well, it's really in terms of, as you had mentioned, in terms of all of the different cultures and all of the different types of people that are here in some ways, it makes it easier because what happens is, is that Americans are very much in terms of very open and straightforward because we know we have to deal with so many different people from different countries and different languages. And so it tends to be very straightforward in terms of our communication. Oh, that makes sense. Also in the book, you really talk about how location and timing is really important when you're considering going to market. Why is that? Well, you know, in terms of the from a location perspective of it's you know, there are many different markets, there are many different, you know, aspects in terms of legal, in terms of the customer base or choosing that where to enter point is it's really important. And it could be in terms of going where the competition isn't, it could be going where the customers are or could be, you know, going to where we have clusters of different industries, you know, that that are in different locations. So, for example, up in the the New England area, there's a lot of medical tech and technology companies. You know, in other parts of the country, you know, there is different types of industries that have been nurtured and growing up there and some ways that you might want to go there because there's already an infrastructure system there in terms of support, people support systems. So in that particular case, it would be something that you might consider. There's one case study in the book. It's a Belgian company, Ranson, and they manufacture all sorts of different hardware and building equipment. And what they did is, is that they had to choose where to come into the United States, and they decided to go out to Los Angeles rather than in the eastern part of the country, because there wasn't as much competition. And also there's a big building that's going on there. In addition, in terms of they had to just decide to have thousands of different products that they manufacture and they had to narrow it down to just about ten or 12 of the core of the products that they wanted to first introduce. And then after then they started to expand. And actually in the last few years, they opened up their own factory down in Texas. Wow. Yeah. So, you know, speaking of that, I really loved all the you have like 12 plus case studies in the book. And they really provide clarity and showcase so many different business scenarios. Could you elaborate a little bit on how helpful these case studies are and what we can learn from the examples? Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you. It's and it goes to in terms of the teaching. So, you know, as I mentioned, I teach at Columbia and at at NYU and very much in terms of there's a you know, first we, you know, teach in terms of the frameworks we teach, the, you know, things that people need to know, the concepts. And then it's the application of them. And, you know, case studies are a great way to show how the principals get, you know, used and how they come to life. And so using that approach, you know, I picked so each chapter has a case study that goes into the various aspects, whether it's talking about, you know, financing your international expansion or setting up a company or establishing market presence, you know, the case studies really help to illuminate and demonstrate those principles. Yeah. And it puts it kind of in a real world feel. Plus, not all of them have the exact, you know, what you would expect the outcome to be. So it's interesting to learn either from things they did really well or things they didn't do so well, but at least we can learn from that. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great example that I you know, to that point, it was an example. It was a German window company called Mink. Mink Fenced or Fenster means window in German. And there were 130 year old company that had been manufacturing really fine wood framed windows and doors and been selling into the United States through distributor. And then in 2015, they decided to come to the United States and and expand in a much bigger way. So they established the company and they set up a Mink USA, and they opened up a factory in western Massachusetts and Chickpea, Massachusetts. And they received over$1,000,000 of state and city incentives, tax incentives, and they received a $5 million tax exempt bond from the economic development organization. So they built this factory and thinking that, you know, the the in German and European manufacturing and windows are much more advanced, ten years more advanced than they are in the U.S. But they ended up closing and closing the factory and then going back home, you know, after just two years. And the reason for it is, is that, you know, took them too long to to set up it. It couldn't find the skilled labor. But the big reason was, is that they totally misread the market and that in Europe and in Germany that most people have what's called a tilt and turn windows that come into the room. We're here in the United States. We either like double hung windows or casement windows that go out. So there's a very small market for these two will just twist and turn windows. And then on top of that, they were more expensive. And energy costs are somewhere so much. And particularly in 2015 and 2016, that half what they are in Europe. So Americans weren't going to spend the money for a more expensive that was going to take so long to pay off their investment. So they totally misread the market. And then you know, even though they might have had a better product, yeah, they didn't they weren't able to succeed here. Yeah. Yeah. I remember reading that case study. With so much changing in the world today, do you feel the American dream is a still a possibility? Well, absolutely. And one of the the things that I go into is, is that people can choose what is your American dream? So your American dream, whether it's, you know, to make be fabulously wealthy or is it to become a pillar of your community or is it to become, you know, raise a family that's going to, you know, thrive? You know, those are the things that you can choose for yourself. And, you know, so the American dream is, you know, certainly attainable. And what's even better is, is that you can choose what it is, Is your dream, right? Yeah. And I think that's changed a lot in recent years since COVID especially. I feel like people are really looking at what does that mean to me? Yeah, it was interesting that there was a some research that I found from Pew Research that that did quantitative research with Americans all over and found that, you know, overwhelmingly people felt that, you know, they could, you know, had access to, you know, that American dream. And about 35%, you know, felt that they had achieved it. Yeah. Yeah, I could see that for sure. Yeah. Which doesn't mean that it's easy, you know, it's not like everything over here. It's going to it's a it's a it's a walk in the park, as they say. You know, it's it's definitely there are a lot of challenges. There are a lot of, you know, obstacles. Dealing with our government can be tremendously frustrating. And that's why you really need to rely on local talent, local experts, you know, people like yourself that can help people to to maneuver through all of the various complicated regulations. Yeah, it's true. And then. You know, with our classification, we kind of take a two pronged approach and any product that is coming into the U.S. is given a harmonized tariff code. And we really do a deep dive into their product. And then also knowing those regulations and interpreting them, it's a really great way to make sure that it's compliant and also that it's put into the harmonized tariff schedule. The best way for that companies. So it's true. I can just imagine how complicated it is. Yeah. Oh yeah. And it changes daily. I mean customs and rulings and there's so many different ways to have duty drawback. Yeah, that's why we say to I know that you mentioned in the book that there are no set rules or formulas when it comes to marketing products or services in the U.S. due to every company, every market and every situation is unique. And with us speaking with the importers and exporters, we always provide a complimentary consultation because again, it's exactly that. It's a very unique circumstance if you're talking about duty drawback classification or free trade. Yeah, yeah, I would think you'd really have to be very strategic about how you go about doing it. Yes, Yes. And with the international companies too, like coming into the U.S., it's great to talk to someone. As a matter of fact, we're working with a company now who is speaking to us about how to set this up, and they're not going to be able to have duty drawback for another year after they're already established here and paying the duties. But, you know, it's interesting how many more companies are definitely coming to the U.S. and taking advantage of duty drawback. Yeah, it's it is. You know, it is it's the most lucrative market and it has a huge it has almost an unlimited upside. And you have to really think about it differently. It's not like going into another country where it's like, okay, if I spend $1, I might be able to make $2, like spending $1 with the opportunity to make a hundred. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Also, your deep understanding of the market strategies and your vast experience with brands. I've heard you mentioned before some of these really recognizable, recognizable brands that you've worked with. I feel like your book is almost like a marketing lesson for some of the U.S. companies as well as it gives those U.S. companies some insight into some of the culture and thought process of other companies as well. Would you agree? And that's, you know, for me, that's where I came from. You know, the marketing world. At one point I was head of marketing for various consumer product companies, including Snapple and Bic and China. That and you know, some business to business. So for me, that's the most fun part of it. And one of the case studies that I talked about in the book was came from my very early one of my first experiences where we helped Hyundai come into the the United States back in the mid 1980s. And at that time no one had ever heard of it. And it was this company with this funny name that couldn't no one could ever pronounce. It was like they were pronouncing it high and dry, which isn't very good for for a car company. Right. So what we what we did was is that we spent four months of establishing the company at Hyundai as this large manufacturing, the largest shipbuilder in the world, you know, making buildings, construction. And it's a company you've never heard of, but they're going to be coming to the United States, you know, soon. And oh, by the way, they also make cars. And then four months later, then we started introduced the Hyundai Excel, and it was the fastest growing, the most successful new car launch, I think, in history. I believe it. And I owned a Hyundai Santa Fe. And I remember at the time this was like a while back, I think it was one of the very first car companies that offered 100,000 mile warranty. Yeah, Yeah. We had to do that because we had to, you know, just because people didn't really know the company. Right. Really. You know, it was that was a way for us to prove, you know, we believed in our products. So we're going to give this outrageous, you know, guarantee, you know, guarantee. And it was a way for us to demonstrate, you know, what we believed in our strength. Yes. Yes. So even though there's so much value in your book and we really appreciate you coming on today, Matthew, I know you're you're very busy, so thank you again. And Yeah, well, thank you. It's always a pleasure and it's always great. You know, as I said, my book sort of goes into the very much that an overview you it's sort of like a, you know, top level. I'd say it's like it's a couple of inches deep and a mile wide whereas you know what you do is, is very important in terms of really getting into the specifics, which is really critical for companies trying to to to think about coming to the U.S.. Yes. Yes. And where can people purchase your book if they want to purchase it online? I know you have some there's I believe you have a company. Yeah. Yeah. It's on all of the major. You know, the this the Barnes and Noble and Amazon and for people who want to buy the book sort of bulk copies there's a seller porchlight where you can buy let's say if you buy, I think it's like ten or 20 books it's more at a discount. Oh yeah. And that might be something great for corporations. Yeah. All right. Well, very good. Thank you very much. And I look forward to to talking again. All right. Bye bye. So if you are interested in purchasing his book, it's on sale now at Porchlight and you'll receive a 20% discount. The website for the book Matthew Lee Sawyer dot com and I think we'll wrap it up will do this in a podcast later so that we can send that out as well. Thank you. So we'll see see what the turn out looks like. And then Dewey, how are we Do I have to say, you know, thank you for joining know we're going to wait for some more people to join. Yeah, I would just say as soon as I start the session, I'll let you know. And then just welcome everybody and say we're just going to wait a minute or two for everybody to sign in. Okay. And then I'll play the the flag video. Okay? And then when I stop, just pay attention to that. When I stop the flag video, I'll put the slide back up and you can get going. Okay? Okay. All right. So I think. Excellent. Okay, good. Oh, this is great. Good. I can do exercises while I talk. This is great. That's good. New Year's resolutions, right? Yeah. Although I was supposed to have a dry January. I think I didn't last the first week. Well, that's. Funny. I did that one year. That was a really fun carry. Did you see that? I got in. There was an article in the Forbes. I saw it. I'm going to mention that today. Yes, I did see it. And I. I listen to the like podcast of it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Very exciting. Now, that was January, right? That was just now. Yeah. Because the book actually today is the first day that it's it was launched in Europe today. Oh wow. Okay. You've come out last month in the U.S., but this is the first day. So they were able to get a little bit of publicity because they love to be like, you know, when it starts. Yeah. So yeah. So I was really pleased with that. Just go ahead and start that and then I'll start the webinar. Where did my very welcome go? Hmm. That's strange. I video's gone. Oh, well, that's all right, Carrie. I'll just go ahead and start it and then you can just tell everybody again, we're going to wait a minute. Okay? Okay. Welcome, everybody. We're just going to wait a few minutes for, everybody to sign in. Thank you for joining us today for our webinar on making it in America. We will also be featuring this in our monthly Duty Drawback Podcast unit in America. And we will also be featuring this in our Monthly Duty Drawback podcast. I'm Carrie Irwin and I am the director of Sales for International Tariff Management. At ITM. We predominantly work with U.S. companies that have an international presence. However, because we are seeing more and more international companies expanding into the U.S. market, we thought we should shift a little bit to discuss what is the best way to enter the U.S. market. We have a special guest today who is an expert on how international companies and entrepreneurs successfully enter and scale in U.S. markets. We thought this would be a great topic to discuss, as well as provide some added value for our listeners. Today, our special guest is Matthew Lee Sawyer. Matthew is the author of Making It in America, currently making It in America is the number one international business book on Amazon. Matthew is also a Columbia NYU professor, a business marketing strategist who has a rich history helping many recognizable large companies build their brands. He is also the director of Rocket Market Development. Matthew has won many industry awards, including the gold and silver fees and he has been recognized by the Wall Street Journal as a pioneer in digital marketing and most recently, Welcome Mat. His book was spotlighted. In Forbes for having. Welcome, Matthew. Well, welcome, Carrie. Thank you so much for having me and for introducing me to your your listeners. Yes. We're so excited to have you here to discuss your book, Making It in America a little bit about so that you could you could you tell the audience a little bit about yourself and tell us what your inspiration was for writing the book? Yeah, well, I think you covered in terms of, you know, my primary gig is is that I'm a professor. I teach at Columbia University in NYU. And in addition, I do some consulting work. And so back in 2016, I was doing a project for a company and a French company that wanted to come to the United States. And we successfully helped them. And they ended up going on and getting about $70 million from Goldman Sachs. But, you know, they really were, you know, struggling in terms of understanding the market. And then later on, I was helping some of the European American chambers of commerce. And this the the the problem or the issue of the complexity of the United States and it was is one that it was a need that I felt needed to be addressed. And then during the COVID period, I had some downtime. Yes. Along with, you know, a lot of other people. And I used that time to to write the book I interviewed over 150 people in 40 different countries. And I learned a lot along the way. I met Trump tremendous people. And and the book just launched last just launched last month and just launched today in Europe. We have Oh, that's great. We have good timing. I think what stands out for me is I've met many authors who discuss, you know, maybe one aspect of your book, such as American culture, Where is making it in America touches on so many important additional topics. It becomes like a guide or checklist. Also, I found the book is written in a concise, organized, and so easy to follow format. Well, thank you. Thank you. It was interesting. And since that one of the people that I talked to is it was he was an Italian who was living in Germany and he was running a a digital marketing agency. And they were they were all over Europe. And I said, you know, are you thinking about coming to the United States? Why don't you come to the United States? And he said to me, he said, I'd love to, but I don't even know where to start. So the book was written with him in mind, and it sort of gives you an overview of all of the different areas. That's almost like a starting point. And then from there you know, then you'd need to dig in, particularly in terms of the issues around whether it's legal aspects or finance or the area that that you guys are experts in and the whole, you know, tariff and all of our regulations regarding bringing products and into the into the country. Yeah. Classifying all. Of that. Yeah. So let me ask you, why do you think the U.S. is considered a sought after space for international business? Well, you know, the big reason is, is that it is the you know, it's the biggest and the most lucrative market in the world. You know, we have you know, our GDP is over $26 trillion, which is more than $1,000,000,000,000, more than the second economy, which is China. And in addition, it's also the stable. You know, there was a study that was done by Morgan Stanley, the chief economic economist, Ruchir Sharma, who looked at and the U.S. economy has been steady at 25% of the overall world economy for the past four decades. And then there are also a lot of other reasons in terms of the strong finance opportunities. Here. We have a relatively pro-government, both sides in terms of the both the Democratic and the Republican parties, and that Americans are very open to new things. They want the best in the world. They want the best talent and we can also be very, very helpful to people coming here. Yeah. I agree. Do you what do you feel are the biggest misconceptions of doing business in the United States? Well, one of the biggest misconception is, is I remember talking to someone in Australia and he had a company that was in the U.S., some related to the green energy business. And he said, Oh, yeah, I'm coming to the United States. That's where I want to go, because it's one country, you know, with a huge market. Everyone speaks the same language. And, you know, it's a Europe where there are 40 different, you know, countries and lots of different languages. And, you know, that misperception and that it is one cohesive market is is is is wrong because it and, you know, it really is at the very least, it's 50 different markets with each state having its own governments and laws. Even cities have their own each region is very different in terms of climate, in terms of ethnic makeup. It's it's really thousands of different markets in the U.S.. It's so true. I mean, I am from Connecticut and I lived in Oregon when I was like a teenager for like a year. And I can remember saying asking for a grinder, which is could be a sub or, you know, so many different names for that. And they literally did not know what I was talking about. They're like, you want me to grind up meat? What do you mean? And I'm like, What do you mean you don't know what I want a sandwich. And then finally we figured out what I was asking for. But it's so true. I mean, even coming from here, it's different and can be a shock to to different parts of the United States. Yeah. So one of the things in terms of my research is, is that I looked at and I read some terrific books. There was one in particular called American Nations by an author, Colin Woodard, and it talked about how the U.S. has never been one cohesive nation. It really it started from its very beginnings. It was 13 different colonies that came over. Each one of them was very different in terms of the ethnic makeup, the views, in terms of values and how that has somewhat persisted, you know, for a long time, for a long for many years. It wasn't until about 50 or 60 years ago that people had a lot more mobility and moved from one region to the other. But over the generation, those initial values that came in, whether it was the Puritans up in Massachusetts or here in New York, the Dutch, you know, who are very much in terms of all of that industry and trading was totally different. Yeah. So looking at those origins was something that, you know, that really in terms of the, you know, you know, seeing the you know, what it's like now. Yeah. Well, speaking of that, let's discuss the importance of communication and how it can vary when it comes to business marketing, to consumer ears, networking. What can you tell us about that? Yeah, so it's in some ways, I think that the U.S. is easy, easier for or for people coming here because Americans are very straightforward. You know, one of the things is that we there is so much diversity. There's so much whether it's ethnic or or, you know, backgrounds, there's so much diversity. So what happens is that Americans tend to be very straightforward and in some cases, you know, very blunt. And, you know, as you know, the saying is, is that if you're going to give a presentation, the first thing as you tell them what you're going to say, you say it and then you just then afterwards you tell them what you just said. Or prefers to like in in in other countries, let's say Japan, where, you know, everyone has come from a very similar kind of background. And there is much more in terms of a nuance. And you don't have to use words as. They use the saying as sort of, you know, reading the air. And so in some ways, it's, you know, so it's much harder in terms of going to other countries. So Americans tend to be very straightforward and blunt. Of course, you know, there are certain, you know, quirks and ways of doing business. And, you know, that has to be, you know, just seen and learned. But but for the most part, Americans are very open to people from other countries and languages and we so I think that the communication is certainly an issue. But I think a lot of it is is is easier. I I heard you discuss a coconut and peach analogy, which I thought was. So. True. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. So that came from one of the things is a chapter in the book which is talked about understanding Americans. And It actually starts out with a quote from someone who was a very senior level executive who was a French, came from France, very senior level executive at a major company. And his vote was is that I've been living in the United States for 25 years and I still don't understand Americans. But the the be the reference that you made in terms of the peach and the coconut came from. There was a woman, Aaron Meyer, who wrote a terrific book about the called The Culture Map, and it was in that book, and I used several for that chapter. But she talked about how in some countries, you know, that, you know, people are much more like a coconut in the sense that they in European countries where there's a hard shell. And it's difficult to then penetrate and get to know them. But after you do break, after you break that shell, you know, then people are very moral, warm and open and whatever, as opposed to a country like America, where people are tend to be on the surface, very easy to get along with, to to get to know. But then all of a sudden, getting down to something that might be personal or, you know, we, for example, would never talk. Americans hate to talk about their personal finances. Ask them, how much money do you make? And in that case, it's then it becomes like a hard shell. And you reach this pit where people just don't want to talk about it. So it's just a different way of understanding the cultures and and that's one of the things is that a lot of companies, a lot of executives that I talked to said that understanding the culture was one of the hardest parts for them. Yes, I could see that. Like even in business, I did a lot of work in the southern states. And and and when you're working in the southern states, it's so different from New York and and up north. I mean, 100% different. So in the South, I felt like you would sit, you would talk before you ever discussed business. Just had to develop your rapport first. And it could take a while. Right. And then they kind of would let you know, okay, we're going to talk about business now. Whereas I felt the opposite up north of where you get in, you talk about what you're going to talk about, and then after you can kind of relax and develop a rapport. Yeah. The complete opposite. Well, yeah, Although I think in some ways in talking to various people in terms of coming here, in terms of negotiating, you know, Americans for the most part, you know, it's sort of we have this win win mentality. So it's a negotiation. It's like, well, we want to win, but it's okay if other people win, too. Yes. And, you know, and knowing that and then, you know, if it's a negotiation, if it's a discussion or whatever is sort of knowing, that is a good way to sort of, you know, be able to come to a common ground. Yes. Yes. You know, you you kind of talked about this a little bit. America is considered a melting pot with so many cultures within America. Do you think there are any defined rules when international companies are dealing with Americans? Well, certainly there are. There is. You know, whether it's, for example, international companies often struggle when they hire Americans because of just different cultural differences. For example, the French are known to management practices as to be very hands on. And if you're not actively involved in, you know, the day to day business, you're not considered to be doing a good job in terms of management. We're here in America, you know, but we think that that is, you know, being you tend to to to the. I think Matthew's having some technical audio issues. I'm just going to give him a minute. Meanwhile, he's reconnecting. Matthew. Well, in Matthew's book, Making It in America, he it's organized so well where he really takes you through the different parts of business as we discussed earlier, where he talks about American culture. He talks about when is the best time to enter the market, the location. He it's almost like a marketing class in the way that he really takes you into the best way to enter the market. He also has 12 plus case studies in the book that really provide clarity and show and showcase many different business scenarios. And some of them work really well. And he even shows you the ones that don't work so well so that you can learn from those examples. He also talks about the American dream and how it's definitely a possibility in other countries looking for that. Yes. And Matthew, I'm sorry, is having some issues with audio. Another thing that he mentions in the book is that there are no set rules or formulas when it comes to marketing products or services in the U.S. due to the fact that every company, every market, every situation is unique. And we at ITM find this is true in our business. So when we are speaking with importers and or exporters, we also find the same situation that every situation is unique. So we offer complimentary consultations, duty, drawback classification and free trade, and much of it will depend on the company's circumstances. I'm still waiting to see if we will be able to connect. The other thing I wanted to mention about the book is not only is this great for international companies coming in, but it's also great for U.S. markets. If you want to get a little understanding of the culture and a little bit about how and what the process is for international companies and entrepreneurs. It's great for that as well. And as I mentioned, also just kind of a review on some really great marketing and how to go to market. So if you are interested, as I mentioned, this is making it in America. If you are interested in purchasing his book. It's on sale now at Porchlight and you'll receive a 20% discount. Amazon or Barnes and Noble, the website for the book. WW Matthew Lee Sawyer dot com and I think we'll wrap it up. Due to the technical difficulties. Sorry about that. We'll try to do this in a podcast later so that we can send that out as well. Thank you.