Why leaders must stand for something with Andy Johnson, Head, Truro School (Ep. 188)

In this episode of The Independent School Podcast, Juliet Corbett is joined by Andy Johnson, Head of Truro School, to explore why leaders must stand for something - and what it takes to develop a clear and distinctive point of view.

In this conversation, they examine what it means to lead with what they call a 'spiky purpose' - not a spiky personality - and why conviction, agency and authenticity matter in shaping both individual and institutional direction.

Together they explore:

• Why leadership requires more than organisational vision - it requires personal conviction
• The difference between a 'spiky purpose' and a 'spiky person'
• How agency develops early in a career - and why it matters
• How leaders adapt their point of view to different contexts without losing authenticity
• The importance of aligning head and heart in decision making
• Why stewardship and humility matter when leading for the long term

This episode is for you if you’re a senior leader who wants to clarify what you stand for, develop a distinctive point of view in your sector, and lead with conviction without becoming rigid or reactive.

Thank you so much for listening to The Independent School Podcast. I would be grateful if you could spare a couple of minutes to send me some feedback here. This helps me make the podcast as helpful as possible to listeners. Thank you!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Most leaders talk about the importance of an organization having a vision. But far fewer are willing to stand publicly for what they truly believe as individuals. So, what does it take to develop and defend a clear and distinct point of view? In this episode, I'm joined by Andy Johnson to explore why leaders must stand for something and how to develop a philosophy strong enough to guide others without becoming rigid or reactive. Welcome to the Independent School Podcast. With me, Juliette Corbett. I'm a trusted advisor, executive coach, and strategist, working with accomplished leaders who are navigating complex challenges. A kind that can feel like a tangled ball of string, confusing, frustrating, and hard to unpick. In this new series, I bring you real-world conversations with principals, heads and CEOs of independent and international schools. Together we explore problem solving in uncertainty, staying strategic amidst the daily bustle of leadership, and building high-performing teams. Today I'm joined by Andy Johnson, head of Truro School, the only 3 to 18 co-educational day and boarding school in Cornwall here in the UK. It's a role he's held since 2020. Andy's career spans a wide range of educational contexts. He was Deputy Head Academic at St Dunstan's College in South East London, founding deputy head and DSL at the London Academy of Excellence in Newarham, and he spent a decade at Westminster School, including as a housemaster. In this conversation, we explore what it really means to have a distinct point of view as a leader. What we come to call a spiky purpose, and how that differs importantly from being a spiky person. Andy reflects on his own educational philosophy and how it's evolved through different contexts. And we also discuss how leaders can develop, refine, and adapt their own philosophy without losing authenticity. So let's get into my conversation with Andy Johnson. Hello, Andy, and welcome to the Independent School Podcast. Great to have you here with us.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

It's an absolute pleasure to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Excellent. So I'm going to start with my classic first question. What is the root of your passion for education? Why did you enter this sector and then could pursue a whole career in it?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

I think actually, I think for me it's kind of accidental. I think when I at the end of university, thinking about what I wanted to do next, I think I basically didn't have a clue. I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, which I'm sure is not uncommon for history graduates, um, or indeed many other people as well. Um dipped my toe in the sort of post-graduate work experience environment and thought that's not quite me. Um had a niggle about education, um uh and absolutely loved it. Did my PGCE and found it just the most exciting, fascinating educational year that I'd had. I think I learned more in that year and felt that kind of buzz of learning more actually so than a lot of my degree or or previously. Um and I think for me, what came out of that was that sense that you know, being able to combine what I loved about intellectual stimulus, but being in environments where there was cultural stimulus, where there was sport, where there was evolution of people, you know, all things I'm interested in, all things I liked doing, uh, and and a school environment kind of offered all of that and a career. I mean, it was sort of, you know, wow, you know, this is really exciting. I think from that then comes, you know, what you believe about what you're doing once you've decided that that's the kind of world you want to be in.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Yeah. Interesting, then that it was your almost like a uh emotional physical reaction to this is this is where I want to be, this is exciting. And then later comes the this is my vocation, this is why I value it, this is why it's important.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

I think that's right. And and and probably actually, you know, sit me on a couch and dig into that, and there may there'll there'll be roots behind that. There'll be things that probably were always there that I may not have realized consciously, but became realized through that or connected me in that space. But you're right, it wasn't something that was planned. I I it wasn't uh, you know, a sort of determination to have a vocation in that world. Um, but once I'd discovered it and taken that plunge, I just knew it was right, and I still do.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah. So then came later the exploration of what education means to you. And I imagine now you've got a much more nuanced sense of the power of education and why it's important than you did back then.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yes, absolutely. Um, and I think this is a journey uh as well. I'm sure it is for most people. Um for me, um working in different schools in different contexts, with different structures in different sectors for different age ranges, um, with different USPs, um with different value sets. Um, and many people who do what I do will will all be able to say that, of course. Um, but for me, the impact of that, and the impact of that journey on where I kind of feel I've ended up with what I really believe about education, um I am hugely appreciative of the journey, not just the realization. Um, and actually, probably that gives it a sort of deeper sense of meaning and and and purpose for me as well. Yeah. Um, but you know, working in hugely academic environments, working in co-educational, single sex, um, working in a sixth-form free school, um, in totally different social contexts, um, urban areas, rural areas, um, and all of these things are are different. But actually, what's at the heart of that is the essence of what education is for, and how far is that something which is context-defined versus just at its core about what education is. Um uh, and I've I've just I've supposed I've really enjoyed that. I've enjoyed doing that journey and and trying not to over-reflect on it and see where it leads me.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yeah, so so what I'm hearing is actually important for two on two levels, I think. So, one is that as a school leader, we're often asked to have a really good sense of our educational philosophy or pedagogical point of view, because then all the way through from interview process through leadership, through strategy development cycles, we're then helping the school to articulate a unique selling point at USP and kind of get out to the world how you're different. So, this is a thread that comes through a lot of conversations I have with school leaders, is you know, what is your point of view around education? But then it also has a bigger point as well, which is that anybody in any sector, if a leader is going to really step into having an influence at sector level, not just at organizational level, it requires having uh what I heard someone call brilliantly a spiky point of view, something which is that makes you a little bit different, which which you can say with true belief, you can be open to alternative ideas, you're not closed about it, but you've got a different point of view to offer the world. And and I think there's something about being a professional of any in any sector, if you're really going to step up into senior, really senior leadership, that's what's needed. There's a bit of a risk to like declaring what you stand for.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah, I think it's true. I think it you've got to believe in what you're doing. I I don't think I don't think you can lead in any context without having a passion for what you believe. Now that doesn't mean you're closed-minded, it doesn't mean that you don't listen. It doesn't, you know, all those things which are just givens. But actually, behind that, there's got to be some sense of, do you know what? I I do believe in what I do. Um uh I'm not just gonna do it to the best of my ability, um, but I'm actually gonna believe in it as well. And and and if that ends up being a spiky profile in in whatever way we use that term, then then probably actually you're challenging something around you. Uh, and that's where change happens, that's where evolution or revolution takes place, because without the spikiness, you know, it it's preservation of status quo or it's entrenchment or or whatever. I mean, I'm not saying change has to be rapid and and significant immediately everywhere, but but the spikiness probably does matter in some way if if there's an improvement agenda or if there's an evolutionary agenda.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Yeah. Actually, as you say that, I'm gonna refine what I mean by spiky. Your idea might be spiky internally, but then you need to also be able to control as a leader how spiky you are in any particular environment. So that you're calibrating to what's needed to get the change that needs to happen. Or sometimes you can have a spiky point of view internally, and you can choose actually, actually, the status quo is what I'm supporting at this moment in time. So maybe there's a bit more calibration required.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Yeah, I think it's sort of evidence. You know, it's the spiky person or the spiky purpose. Um, and it kind of if you're if you're the spiky person without the spiky purpose, I'd probably I don't know we probably all can think of people we may have worked with in that context, but um, I can't, by the way, if anyone's listening. Um uh but actually spiky purpose you know is the thing that matters here. Um, spiky person or not is is probably not the key thing, and it's maybe for others to judge, but um, but spiky purpose is is is what matters.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Yeah. So what I'm really interested in is both how you got to that. So you talked about the journey being in different environments, but then also what you might recommend to someone a little bit earlier in their career who's still figuring out what they believe in education, or maybe, yeah, maybe a leader who's got to a point where they've believed a certain thing up to a certain point and they're now feeling a bit stale, or like they need want to stretch or be open to something that's slightly different. Is it just being in different contexts? That there's something deeper than that, probably, isn't there?

SPEAKER_01 11:08

I think there is. I think the point diversity of context forces you to rethink some of what you do. So I think the advantage of that is whatever is intrinsic to you, if what's extrinsic to you, if what if the context you're in is changing, it's got to demand some kind of rethink on some level about what you're doing, why you're doing it, how you're doing it. Um, so I think it's inherent there. I think the intrinsic bit for me, um, and again, I'll talk about sort of, I suppose, myself, my journey here. Um, I suppose I've kind of always uh felt a sort of there's a sort of self-reliance or backing my own judgment or you know, instinct in that space. Not in a way I I don't I don't think it's it's arrogant, um uh again, others for to decide, but I think that sense of let's put it a different way, believing you've got agency.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Um so it's not necessarily a character trait about oh, I'm right or whatever. It's about believing that you have agency in what you're doing. And I still go back to in my my first job, um uh I've been teaching for less than a year, uh, and I was tasked with, you know, here's here's a project for you, you know, rewrite the entire key stage history curriculum, key stage three history curriculum. Wow, what a brilliant, exciting thing to do. Um uh and I can't remember at all what I did. Um, but what I remember is being given agency to think independently. Um and I think what that taught me at that very early stage in my career was that agency matters. Agency is where you can have impact. Um, and in fact, you don't need to be the leader of a school to have agency. Um, you can empower others to do it. Um uh and there'll be many, many other examples throughout anyone's career of much more significant points of agency, but it's a formative point of agency that matters. And again, I hadn't, you know, that example has come into my head in the conversation, but clearly it matters to me. Um and I think for me, that combination goes back to where we were with sort of intrinsic, extrinsic um sort of influences here. I suppose what I find exciting is the interface between those two. You know, I'm in a different environment. What does agency look like here? Yeah um, what makes it different? You know, what's the impact this place needs? What's this context? And how can I use my own skills reference points to have impact there and to be positive and constructive? And indeed, how what is it around me that can be mobilized in that way? Um, and I suppose that's a bit where you move from from sort of being the individual to towards leadership in that space. But I think there's a common ground. And then the other thing I would I would add in that, I think teaching is one of those careers where um I think you're kind of almost expected to be like that. And this is probably I don't people may not agree with this, but there aren't many careers where your level of autonomy at entry level is so big. You know, you you start at the beginning of your career, you're in a classroom, and that's your environment. Um and on one level, therefore, your autonomy, your agency at entry level into the career is pretty high. Um, it's probably also why I talk to most school leaders, and they worry about you know how people actually are accountable or supported. You know, independent thinkers. Exactly. You know, you've got you know we're independent thinkers. Um suddenly this is not a terribly profound point, it's just a general statement about teachers and schools. Um, but I think that's important. And actually, you know, feeling agency and being empowered by it and believing you have agency is hugely exciting and it's a responsibility. Um and when you're doing it as a head of a school or you're doing it as a teacher in a classroom or anything across that zone, um I think it should be exciting, but it is also a huge responsibility because you're in an environment where you're dealing with people, A, but children and not just people.

unknown 15:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

So so there's the intrinsic and extrinsic really interesting here. So we've got moving from different contexts forces you to shift the point of view, it forces you to take a different seat around the table, if you like, look at education from a different angle, and therefore you're inevitably going to see something new, something that you hadn't spotted before. Normally that would be the contextual element. So if this worked in this environment, that doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. It's just that it happened to be right in that environment. Um you've got the contextual side for the extrinsic, and then uh intrinsic, we've got this idea of agency. And uh not only does the profession attract people who enjoy having that agency, they are intellectually focused in their subject that they start teaching, although they they may move away from that as they go through leadership. But that agency gives us like the opportunity to try out new ideas, whether that's in a classroom setting, of course, a year leadership role, middle leadership, whether it's up into senior leadership and headship. If this ability to try new things, especially if the culture is about psychological safety, is built in, you could try something, it doesn't have to always work, assuming you're not taking unreasonable risk. And it's the combination of the two, maybe. It's the sense that you can try new things and you can see things a different way, that especially if done uh intentionally, would help a leader to see that spiky purpose, that that way of seeing the world. Because they're test they're seeing things differently and they're testing them.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Yeah, and I think there's something fascinating about schools in that um paradigm as well. You know, schools are all at once somewhere that depends so much on fixed structure, fixed routine, um, timetable, uh, repetition. Um, and yet they're places that advocate creativity, curiosity, challenge, um, intellectual risk taking. And then there's almost a sort of permanent tension in that space. Um, and the navigation of that tension, um, oh, it's probably what makes the career tiring, um, uh, but it actually is terribly exciting. And then you add into that, you know, that's all internal to a school. You add into that the the constraints that come or the pressures that come externally as well. Um, but yeah, I think it's finding that agency and finding that ability to navigate the that environment is is it's hugely exciting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yeah, absolutely. I've come to believe actually that it's the it's the strength and rigidity of what you might call the container, all of the structure that's there that actually enables creativity and innovation within the structure. Um, and the reason I've come to see it that way is probably my work as a trusted advisor, I create really firm confidentiality time frames, you know, there's a really firm container in which I'm doing work with people. But because people know that that's there and it's firm and it's rigid, inside that conversation, anything can be can be discussed. Um so there's something that it is attention, but I think actually if you flip it and see at a slightly different angle, it's actually an enabler to some extent as well.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Yeah, yeah, it has to be. And and and if it wasn't a positive thing, there'd be something inherently wrong with how it all works. So it's got to be positive. Um, yeah, I yes, I think it has to be that way around.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Yeah. There's also a deeper intrinsic level as well, which we are recording. You can select how much you wish to share with the people that are listening. But there is a deeper element of uh values, authenticity, beliefs that go really deep within us from our childhood, from our upbringing, that also help us to formulate this view of education, this kind of philosophy of how this works. Um, and I wonder what your experience has been, maybe understanding better what those elements are, without needing to share all the detail, and thinking about how actually that intrinsic element can go really deep sometimes as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Yes, uh that's not my final answer. Um I I think values are critical here. Um say context change. Um I think for me, if I think back to that journey we started the conversation talking about um you know what have I learned, what have I come to believe from that? I I think it is about having seen so many different versions of the pursuit of excellence, so many different ways in which they have or haven't been valued or recognized or championed. Um and that sense, this is supposed kind of where I feel now. You know, I mean Truro, um, I love being here, it's a fantastic school, and at root, what there is here, or what I feel there is here, and what I want to champion here is this sense that there's a diversity of understandings of what excellence is and can be, not a hierarchy. Um and I think getting to the point where I genuinely believe that that is what education in kind of my world should be, and probably more than that can be in a school, um is a product of that journey, you know. Not not to be saying that intellectual excellence is more significant than cultural or sporting or service, um, but to say that these things have parallel importance because they are fundamentally about individuals pursuing the best versions of themselves. And the common ground there is about that pursuit of excellence, not what it looks like. Um, almost kind of the journey, the quality of the journey matters more certainly than trying to prevent. Find an outcome or judge an outcome. And that's something I think I believe really strongly about. And it almost fights against, I think sometimes, I think this is just true in education. You know, the temptation to polarize is everywhere. You could in any context. And actually it's embedded. And I think I suppose kind of what I come to feel about education is education's job is to resist the urge to do that on some level. And that's a challenge, but it's it's a values-based challenge. And everywhere I've worked, there has been a strong sense that standards should be high, that excellence matters, or the pursuit of excellence matters. And that's probably the thing I've I've carried through with me. But fighting really hard in any sense that one version of this is to be lauded over others. And that's probably, I don't know if that's quite an answer to the question, but I suppose that's kind of what I feel. And I think there is, you know, for me, that there's a there's a version of education there which rather than saying it's blind to those polarizations, I'm sorry, negative I'm putting, I think it is opening eyes to the lack of necessity for those polarizations. Yes. Um and the word I've kind of is going through my head here, that obviously I'm gonna make up a word now, but it's sort of context and contextcellence, let's say.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Defined so context and excellence.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Excellence in its context. Um and for individuals in in in that way. I that that's probably a pawing word to have invented, but that's kind of what's coming into my head as we talk.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Yes, well, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Patented.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

So exactly. So it's the and I love that final point you made there, that the the it's not just realizing that there are polarizations. So we don't need to set academics against sport, we don't need to set inclusivity versus selectivity or or in terms of or in terms of value add versus end result. Like these are all fake polarizations, fake tensions that we put in our dialogue and our discourse. Instead, what we're looking for is this sense of we don't, we can transcend needing to polarize these. We can actually say these are all important, and the context is the individual child, and then it's the excellence that that individual child grows into.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah, I think that's right. And I think, you know, I suppose the problem with this, having sort of initiated that as we look at it, I mean, it it sounds so idealistic. Um, you know, is this actually a position of utter naivety? Um, schools market, um, uh parents and stakeholders have priorities, um, USPs um are important. You know, how how all at once can you hold the idea that we don't believe in a version, we believe in all versions, and yet you've got limited numbers in your school, you've got bottom lines you need to reach, you've got um reputations or traditions that need to be maintained. Um I'm not trying to say that that you can adopt a totally idealistic position. Um you know, someone will now look at my school's website and say, You complete hypocrite, you know, you're championing this and actually you're projecting this, that, and the other. Um you know, the reality is this is back to your world. This is spiky.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Yeah. Um here what I would contrast is the you can have a spiky point of view as a head, as a middle leader, you know, as long as you're you're um being careful how you how spiky you are in any particular context, any particular environment, your point of view can be as spiky as you like, because actually it's that kind of thinking that helps us to see beyond the assumptions that we tend to make. But then at an organizational level or school level in this context, that needs to be uh considered alongside the market. It needs to be considered alongside what are the the um traditions, the history of the school, the market in which it sits in terms of the demographics day versus boarding, etc. etc. And then there are compromises that have to be made because this is real life. But that doesn't mean that we we don't pursue, or we should hold back from pursuing, in my opinion, a strong personal set of opinions and beliefs about what it is we're trying to do here, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

And I think that brings it to to authenticity as well. Um it is there will be compromises, there will be things that don't work for all people at all times. That is completely inevitable and and totally obvious. Um, and in an imperfect scenario, authenticity is what matters. Um, that brings it back to values.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's the the word authenticity is really interesting as well, because there are different elements of our own authentic self that we'll dial up and dial down in certain circumstances. So there are there are different elements of identity, of personality, of authenticity. Well, I think this is where it's really important that there's a strong match between a head, for example, senior leadership, and the school. And if the fit isn't there, if the leader is finding they can't be authentic enough and say what's needed in that particular marketplace by that particular institution, then it's probably time to part ways because it's not gonna ever land with the emotional resonance that it needs to with the potential families that come into tours and people that you're sitting down with, you know, are considering the school. So it's always gonna be authenticity in leadership, it's always gonna be um dialing up and down certain elements of what you believe, but that's where there needs to be a certain amount of overlap and fit. That's what we call fit, basically. Yeah, an element of fit.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Yeah, I completely agree. Um, you know, and it's net necessary and it's healthy because you are fundamentally dealing with a community of people who are all individuals.

unknown 28:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Um, and you know, if there's any school anywhere where everyone in that community thinks the same and wants the same thing, um uh that's the biggest example of groupthink I've ever heard. Well, exactly. Um, and and it's sort of you know, that's where we start with this, you know, you know, for someone who believes in agency and independence of thought and individual pathways and journeys, um a school which or an environment which as that group think would be a complete anathema. I mean, I remember a former colleague of mine saying to me, they can't think of anything worse than someone who'd left their school being, oh, you must have gone to so-and-so school, you know, as if the the type that's generated um you could recognize, you know, uh now in an environment from an environment which is proud of its type in that way, that's kind of I suppose what I I feel I personally have moved away from.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Yeah, it almost sounds like you're providing a uniform product rather than a young person that's thriving in the world, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Um, and again, if that's what a stakeholder wants, then fantastic, brilliant, offer it. Yeah, but for me, and this again, this is my room the the idea that I couldn't possibly tell where somebody was at school or was, you know, that for me is success. Yeah. Um, because then it's about the individual's journey and who they are and who they've become with their own version of what excellence is. Um uh and I reckon that's not the only way of thinking about it, but that that's my journey, that's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah. So one final area to explore here is how this works through time as well. One of the fascinating things working with with independent schools is the the length of history that many of them have, which means that the leadership thinking needs to go forward at least one generation. Actually, I've heard of a Japanese bank that does a 200-year strategy because they're thinking that many generations in advance. That'll be a little bit, a little bit um uh kind of too far in advance for me, but this sense that actually we're leading our schools now, but we're leading them not just for the generation of young people that are with us today, but for the future generations of young people. And I wondered uh, do you have any thoughts about to what extent uh this process of developing an individual um sense of your uh educational philosophy then has to fit into a succession of leadership? So there has to be some flexibility for the next person that comes after you to potentially have a different point of view to shift and change. At the same time, there's the DNA of a school that largely remains pretty similar from one generation to the next. So, how do you think about balancing those?

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Um it's essential to um nobody is more important than the institution's future.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Um I think you know, in our sector, you know, so many of us now are thinking about how we protect the future. Um actually knowing that what we are doing means that the benefits of the education we provide will be there for children who we do not yet know, um, who have not yet been born. Um that is a responsibility, and what it demands is for schools not to be focused entirely on short term, but also actually for leaders to be humble. Um again, it's a sort of profession where go back to the said about autonomy. You know, you you're the center of attention, whether you like it or not, in day one as a teacher, you're you're the teacher in that room. Um, and you know, different people evolve that persona or that centrality of focus differently through their careers. Someone said to me, you know, you're the head, your name's the one above the pub door. Um uh it's an occupational hazard of having that profile. Um, and that's great, you know, that's part of agency, but it's also actually remembering that the responsibility there is to a future, not just to self and now. Um, and that's much easier to do, I suspect, when everything is rosy in the garden. Um when there are pressures, when there are challenges, that balancing act is much, much tougher. Um, but remembering that is important. Uh um I suppose the word that's in my my mind here is stewardship, um, which I think as a concept is incredibly important. Um the roles we have, we are stewards of opportunity. Um and that is about respecting past, it's about being present, um, and it's about being mindful of future. Uh um I'm now got floods of things colleagues have said to me in the past coming to my head, but someone once said to me, at every really, really important moment, um, all at the same time, you have the past, the present, and the future. Um, and I remember that being said, that's really powerful, actually. And I must have used that in a couple of assemblies in my time. Um, but but it is that sense, you know, we are, if I'm doing this job now, I I have to be connected to past, I have to be connected to present, and I have to be connected to future. Yeah, um, because it's important to be. Um and through that comes again, I don't this is not a polarization. There is both importance, but there is also humility in that space. Yeah, and that balance, not polarization, is really, really important.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yeah. And it's interesting, isn't it, that when when a sector experiences the kind of challenges that we're experiencing, especially in the UK independent school sector at the moment, it's it becomes both more challenging, but it's also a lens through which we can make decisions. So it might feel that it's more challenging to hold on to your educational philosophy when actually you don't have money for lots of different projects and ideas and innovations you're having to cut back. Or equally, it's really hard to make the next generation important when you're making decisions that are going to be like budgets this year, next year, the year after. So it also provides you with, however, a lens. Like if you really know your educational philosophy and what's really important, that becomes a lens through which you can work out where you need to make savings. If you know that you've got the future of the organization to really put centrally as well as the experience of the young people in it today, again, at least that's a really firm lens through which to make some really tough decisions sometimes. So part of the thing.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Yeah, I think that's right. It's sort of I suppose when I think about that kind of decision making, it it's heart and head. Yeah. And it's actually the alignment of the two that matters. You know, the the head bit is, you know, what's the process we're going to go through? What's the strategy that we're serving through this decision making? And the heart bit is do I believe this is the right thing to do? Do I know that that we're doing a positive and good thing for this community and the people who are here and who will be here? Um and that alignment of the head-heart in that space, it doesn't mean things will be smooth. It doesn't mean things will be easy, but it means going into that context authentically to go back to that word. And I suppose it's a bit like we were saying earlier about you know, you spiky person or spiky purpose. Um, if the heart-head is not aligned, if it's all the head bit but not the heart, I think that's when decision making is seen as cynical or it's seen as manipulative or whatever. But actually, the other way around, if the heart bit is right and you get the head bit a bit wrong, actually, and we've all done that, we've all you know done things the wrong way for the right reasons. Actually, that's much, much easier to recover trust from and to recover um, you know, belief from uh or than the other way around. I mean, you know and yeah, absolutely it's it's yeah, spiky purpose, spiky people head heart. I mean, it kind of is a sort of resonance in that, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 37:14

I suppose I like it. I like it. So as we're wrapping up our conversation, what's one thing that you'd like people to really take away from what we've been talking about here that feels like it's the center of importance of our conversation?

SPEAKER_01 37:27

I I think for me it is um you know really always having a belief that in any context anybody is capable of excellence. And and I think that is a you know that's an absolutely fundamental. Um and it's finding what their excellence is, it's having an environment where there is an openness and ability to for them to discover that. Um and that's and if we don't believe that's possible, um there's something wrong with the sector we work in or the the con the environment we work in. Yeah. Um and I suppose after you know long comment, we're probably ending something which may sound really quite obvious, actually, but sometimes I just think it needs to be stated.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

Yeah, I think it does. And I think that amidst all of the conversation about schools becoming more commercially astute, financially secure, actually, this anchors us back into a purpose that's really important and doesn't have to be in conflict with those things. You can have both commercially astute and philosophically sound, but is that sense of being able to balance head and heart, being able to really believe and bring others together to believe what it is that you as a school you're really here to do. So, Andy, thank you very much for your time today. It's fantastic to talk to you here on the podcast. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Thank you for listening to the Independent School Podcast. If you found today's conversation valuable, I invite you to join my email list and hear more of my fresh thinking on leading strategically through complexity and uncertainty. Visit www.consultjuliet.co.uk slash sign up. Remember, the biggest challenges you face are rarely solved by working harder. They're solved by thinking differently, with the right trusted advisor in your corner. While I work with leaders across many sectors, my heart and more than two decades of experience remain deeply rooted in education. If you're ready to turn complexity into progress, sharpen your focus, and lead a happier, higher performing team, I'd love to start a conversation about how we could work together. Just reach out anytime. And don't forget, the clearest insights often appear when you gift yourself a moment to slow down and let your best thinking surface.