Breeding Better Sheep in the North Island with Dr Emma Pettigrew

In this episode of Head Shepherd, we're thrilled to introduce Dr Emma Pettigrew, our new North Island consultant at nextGen Agri. Emma brings a wealth of experience and passion for the sheep and livestock industry, having grown up on a stud sheep and beef farm in the Manawatu and earning her PhD in animal science.

This episode is packed with practical knowledge and forward-thinking ideas for farmers wanting to stay ahead in a rapidly changing world. Tune in to hear how Emma plans to make an impact in her new role and what’s on the horizon for sheep farming in the North Island

• Insights on genetic selection and shedding sheep.
• Challenges and opportunities for NZ sheep farmers.
• Emma’s plans to drive innovation in the North Island.

Head Shepherd is brought to you by neXtgen Agri International Limited. 

We help livestock farmers get the most out of the genetics they farm with. Get in touch with us if you would like to hear more about how we can help you do what you do best: info@nextgenagri.com.

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Transcript

Sheep Industry Expert Emma Pettigrew

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome NextGen's latest recruit, Emma Pettigrew, to Head Shepherd.

Speaker 2 0:04

Yeah, it's great to be here.

Speaker 1 0:06

Excellent, emma. So yeah, we're really thrilled to have you on board. Recently we haven't had somebody full-time on the road in North Holland. Obviously Sophie was up there but she's just moved south so we thought we'd better backfill someone in the north. But obviously it's great to have someone of your experience and passion for the sheep industry and livestock generally, to have some of your experience and passion for the sheep industry and livestock generally. Maybe we'll just start back with where it all began, back with growing up and where your passion for sheep and sheep breeding began.

Speaker 2 0:32

Yeah, so I grew up on a stud sheep and beef farm in the Manawatu just out of Apiti. So mum and dad had stud Romneys, stud Texels and stud Finns. They were part of Rissington helping develop the Highlander and then branched into developing the Headwaters sheep as well. So plenty of background in the stud sheep. They also had about 350 stud Simmental cows as well. So, yeah, plenty going on. But yeah, I remember a lot of time spent helping out on the farm, mothering up and tagging at birth and all sorts.

Speaker 1 1:11

Yeah, yeah, fantastic. And so you obviously did the uni thing and then got stuck in the uni thing for a while to do the PhD. So tell us a little bit about the time at Massey.

Speaker 2 1:21

Yes, I actually originally started doing med lab science. Decided pretty early on that that wasn't for me, went into animal science instead and started yeah, really enjoyed that. One had an offer from Hugh Blair to come and do a summer scholarship and yeah, took that one up and from there basically ended up doing honors, which was selecting rams. It was a data drive scholars project, um, about selecting rams using abvs and proving just how abvs work, and then from there went into phd. So spent a long time at Massey.

Speaker 2 2:04

But yeah, my the best part about Palmy is that it's not too far to get away from to go anywhere. But no, so did my PhD in selecting replacements born to you hoggarts. So that was pretty cool. We had an old data set with small numbers of animals that had a lifetime study going on, and then we started a new cohort. So my first year was lambing about 1,700 ewes and hoggets and collecting all the data on that and then selecting lambs from those ewe hoggets and following them for their first two years. And then, yeah, after that it was time up on the PhD, but I think the studies continued for about four or five lambings after that. But yeah, the main finding that we had throughout the whole thing was that as long as the lambs are up to weight at weaning and going to be up to a mating weight, they'll be just as good as any other from a mixed age ewe as a replacement. And yeah, the biggest, the biggest effect on production was condition score, not size, so to speak yeah, yeah right.

Speaker 1 3:24

So often we consider the just the easiest to chuck a terminal over those, you hoggets or you lamb mating, if you're in australia, the, because they are a bit slow going and all the rest of it. But you've obviously found, if you do get them up to, up to speed, then they're just the same same, not better.

Speaker 2 3:41

Just the same, is it yeah, just to say they they could possibly be slightly more efficient. Um, just given they've got a like maternal constraint on their growth as a fetus, effectively, um, making them smaller for their whole lifetime. So if they're slightly smaller but still producing the same, they could be more efficient. It wasn't a significant result that we found, though, it was just a trend. But yeah, it all depends on everyone's individual farm and policies and things like that. But if they're mating them to a standard maternal ram, there's no reason they can't consider those lambs as potential replacements.

Speaker 1 4:17

Yeah, cool, and obviously that plays into our game a bit in terms of genetic gain, dropping down generation interval. If we can mate e-lamb slash e-hoggets, it means we've got a younger average age group. So therefore a lower generation interval, therefore more rapid genetic gain. Yeah, and I guess we've been strong advocates of that in the stud sector and then sort of yeah, as you said, it depends on the circumstances for the commercial sector but on the stud game it makes a heap of sense to just turn over those generations as fast as we can.

Speaker 2 4:48

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely Common misconception, though, is that mating your hoggets increases genetic gain. You've got to actually select the progeny or terminal. Then that progress stops when you kill those lambs.

Speaker 2 5:02

But yeah, you select their progeny it also increases your selection pool, so you've got more animals. Progress stops when you kill those lambs, but yeah, you select their progeny. It also increases your selection pool, so you've got more animals to select from. So therefore, hopefully, your selection intensity is higher or stronger, but also it can decrease the accuracy of your selection a little bit, depending on which traits you're basing it on, just given there's less records on the younger mums.

Speaker 1 5:25

Yeah, I guess that's where things like genomics come in, where you can get higher accuracy breeding values on those girls. Some of the structural traits sometimes are a bit of a battle if they haven't expressed themselves, they haven't had time to fail essentially. But yeah, I think the places that we work with that have sort of lent into ewe lamb, slash, e u hoggart, mating, have, um well, some of them at least have definitely got got the foot to the floor on genetic gain as part of a range of things I just said, accuracy, everything you got to get right, but but it can be one of the one of the levers we pull for sure to get things going faster yeah, absolutely so from PhD, where do we go next?

Speaker 2 6:04

So after my PhD I scored a role working for Wairiri, so a big stud breeder in New Zealand. They did have some Romneys over in Australia as well Romney Stud over there. Yeah, people probably have heard of Derek Daniel. He's certainly a strong advocate for the farming industry out there. A lot of people have heard of Jericho Wairi.

Speaker 2 6:33

My role there was sort of the data manager and wore a lot of hats on that job, I guess. So anything from managing, collecting, recording, formatting, analysing the data that was associated with the stud, we had probably close to about 15,000 fully recorded breeding ewes across more than 10 flocks. So, yeah, it was a bit of a challenge in there. We also, in the last couple of years, implemented, we've done three years of AI and ET, so bringing in embryos for what we've called our nudies, so a non-shearing sheep that we like to think a little bit, a step further than the Wiltshire, so they don't really have the wool to shed, so to speak. So we've done, yeah, three years of AI and ET there bringing genetics in from the UK. So we've brought in about 1,400 embryos and over 3,000 straws. So, yeah, organising all of that was the task as well. Organizing all of that was the task as well.

Speaker 1 7:47

So 1,400 embryos imported and implanted.

Speaker 2 7:54

Yep. So we did about 400 the first year, or just over 400 the first year, just under 500 the second year and then closer to 600 this last year. So, yeah, it's all about getting the ewes all synchronised and pulling seeders at 9 o'clock at night and then checking heat at 7 o'clock the next morning and putting teaser rams in that have got harnesses on them and recording who's been tupped or marked. Yeah, and then actually doing it, recording which embryo goes into each ewe and all of that sort of thing. Yeah, certainly an experience.

Speaker 1 8:34

Yeah, exactly sounds like the kind of thing set you up perfectly for a job at NextTent.

Speaker 2 8:39

Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 8:42

Excellent, I guess. So yeah, not many of our. We've got lots of businesses in Australia. I mean, maybe talk us through the state of the industry in the North Island at the moment. The sheep industry's probably had a bit of a belting with a lot of buyouts going into trees for carbon and high cost of production, low returns last year or two. What's the state of play up in the north?

Speaker 2 9:08

Yeah, it's definitely a challenging season out there Depends on which part of the North Island. But yeah, the weather hasn't exactly played ball over the last few years either. Cyclone Gabriel come through. We've had a wet spring in sort of the Manawatu-Waiarapa this year, particularly around the ranges and things. It's been a tough few years out there. Definitely the low price of lambs and things is really hitting people and high interest rates and yeah, it's certainly not the ideal world out there at the moment. And yeah, places are still going to trees which, yeah, at Wairiri we just had two farms in the last few years get planted, which left about I think it's about 300 or 400 metres worth of boundary. That's not going to be trees of some description. So yeah, it certainly hits home a bit more when you see it right next door.

Advancements in Genetic Selection in Sheep

Speaker 1 10:08

Yeah, particularly as those families leave the areas and stuff, and then the rugby clubs and the tennis clubs and the whatever, it's just less people around. That's a big impact. Yeah, definitely, jenna. You've spent your life, like I have, looking at animals and their data, I guess, yeah, opportunities that you see. Have we reached anywhere near our optimum sort of genetic selection strategies across the sheep industry in New Zealand? Yet?

Speaker 2 10:39

No, I think there's still plenty that can be done. Yeah, we're certainly like New Zealand. Industry as a whole has made massive gains in the last 20, 30 years. It's probably virtually more like 40 years now, but, um, yeah, massive, massive gains have been made. But, um, I think there's still a few, a few areas where we can definitely make more progress.

Speaker 2 11:01

A couple of the big ones that are sort of front of mind would be worm resistance and facial eczema resistance. They're going to be, you know, health and disease traits are going to be a major part of the future. Effectively. There's a lot, of, a lot of talk of drench resistance around basically anywhere in the north island and so, yeah, that's going to be a big area that we can try and do something in. So getting some sort of parasite resistance more widespread across the sheep will be a major bonus. And, yeah, something that I noticed with Wairarā over the last few years is that there's more and more clients heading down the FE tolerant sheep path, even in the South Island. People on the West Coast Nelson areas are getting into it, whether it's pre-emptive or some of them have actually had issues. Yeah, definitely going to be a case that in, you know, 10 years time you probably won't have many sheep around that aren't somewhat FE tolerant.

Speaker 1 12:06

Yeah, that's true it's been interesting, the like. These things have been around for a fair while and there was sort of some people got really into them obviously, and then others have sort of maybe put in the too hard basket or it's a future me problem, but now it's yeah, as you say, like it's very much front of mind of people. I think the first time you drench animals and it doesn't work scares the life out of you and you kind of get pretty focused on wearing resistance after that. And we hear of someone where where that's happened and equally with a facial eczema outbreak.

Speaker 1 12:37

So we've talked about facial eczema before but for those that don't know, it's a toxin that grows in, it's a fungus that grows on the spores from that, and that fungus is highly toxic to the liver of sheep. Some sheep are better at metabolizing it than others, and so some will get what's called. So the outcome of that is they get photosensitization and obviously they end up with their face getting really awful looking and obviously ultimately death, if um in in lots of cases so, and lots of subclinical losses. So it's a major, major issue and, as, as the climate changes, it's yeah, it's obviously associated with being fungal, it's warmth and moisture, and so, as the as areas become more warm and moist, it's becoming more of a problem yeah, it's really devastating.

Speaker 2 13:25

You sort of hear of people that that have it now and then and yeah, it really really hurts. Um, if there's a bit of an outbreak somewhere, that's really naive to it.

Speaker 1 13:36

Yeah, it knocks around anyway and I think 100% the fact that there is genetic variation for susceptibility is what gets us excited and we can go and find those that are less susceptible. And there certainly are blocks out there that have come a long way and a lot of people playing catch up now. But, yeah, I think it's awesome to see the industry really rallying around that trait plus um, plus worm resistance, and I know beef and lamb have sort of had those two was sort of front and center for their research effort and extension effort. Uh, and because they are, yeah, I mean, a little big, as you said, there's been big gains in in fecundity particularly, and we've had there's lots of flocks out there that'll tick away scanning close to 200 and and yeah, so the appetite for more lambs isn't that strong, but the appetite for animals that are easier to manage is certainly pretty strong yeah, and I think this um, like the, the shedding sheep or the non-sharing sheep, is going to be something that is probably the next trait that people start chasing.

Speaker 2 14:35

That's going to take off a whole lot more in the next few years. Definitely a lot of interest in that.

Speaker 1 14:44

Yeah, I mean I'm making a bold prediction. Everyone I talk to. I can't see many wool sheep in the North Island in a decade's time or maybe I don't know how long it's going to take. But there's a lot of interest in knotting shearing or in non-wool. Yeah.

Speaker 2 15:01

But there's even in just reducing the workload associated with wool, you know, taking the wool off the points, reducing the dagging, reducing products needed for fly strike, et cetera. It's going to be. There's a lot of old wool sheds out there that need repairs. People are starting to sort of toss up whether they put the money into the repairs of the wool shed or into a RAM budget for something with less wool on it.

Speaker 2 15:29

And I think we've definitely heard that over in Australia and things that you know. There's got to be a fitness sort of warrant of fitness, with the wool shed for shearers to come and shear in it, which isn't the case here in New Zealand, but it could well be in future. So there's certainly a few things on people's minds.

Speaker 1 15:49

Yeah, I mean when you're steering down the back, like any new shearing shed, it's obviously not going to be a cheap exercise. And yeah, obviously not going to be a cheap exercise. And yeah, so people have to make that is definitely part of their decision-making when they're thinking about where they're going with their genetics and the workload, as you said. So, yeah, I think, yeah, anyway, I'll stick with my prediction. That's going to be fine. Well, I know well, the middle bit's going to be pretty hard to justify for a while, unless everyone does go shedding, and then 35 micron wool becomes scarce and then demand goes up and then that might change things. But yeah, so anyway, it's going to be an interesting little future. I guess I probably should have given you a warning on this question, but what are you looking forward to in the role at NextGen Agri? And you can have a moment to think about that.

Speaker 2 16:35

No, I'm just looking, looking forward to getting out on farm and meeting a whole lot of new people and seeing seeing how people do stuff. Um, it's, yeah, everyone does something slightly different and it's cool to see, to see what they do and why they do it. Um, and yeah, probably how that could be implemented on other people's properties and things like that. I'd like to think that I've got plenty to give to the clients of NextGen, but I think that they've also got plenty to give to me as well. So, yeah, looking forward to that part, yeah definitely, definitely.

Collaborative Efforts in Livestock Industry

Speaker 1 17:12

We learn a lot from our clients, and vice versa, hopefully. But yeah, definitely, as you say, it's awesome and we are exceptionally proud of the people we get to associate with. It's always great to be working with the people that are really movers and shakers of the industry and trying to bash down any barriers that might exist. You're going to be based out of fielding and so, but, yeah, servicing the the north island and so, yeah, we can. People can get in touch at mop, at nextgenagricom or your, or they'll find your phone number on our website somewhere. But, yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be good, great to have you up there and looking forward to catching up in person next week and having a bit of a quick, quick catch up and and set get the plans organized to really try and make a difference up there in the livestock industry in the North Island.

Speaker 2 18:02

Yeah, looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 18:04

Excellent Thanks, emma. Thanks very much for firstly, joining the team and, secondly, for coming along today and having a chat about the backstory and future with us. Yeah, we're really looking forward to it, so thanks for your time.

Speaker 2 18:17

Yeah, no, thank you, I'm looking.