94: Atomic Habits

Got any bad habits? Then this book is for you! Join us as we discuss James Clear's New York TImes Best Selling Book "Tiny Changes, Remarkable Results Atomic Habits"... An easy and proven way to build good habits and break bad ones.

Support Us:
https://www.buymeacoffee.com/TwinTalk

Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/jenkinsgirls/

 Leave voicemail here:
 https://www.speakpipe.com/TwinTalk

Transcript

J Q (00:01.294)
Hello and welcome to Twin Talk. This is Angie and I'm here with my sister Joy. are, for the record, we are at her house on a Saturday night. It's cold and drizzly outside, but it's okay. We've got a really good book to talk about. It's called Atomic Habits and it's an easy and proven way to build good habits and break bad ones by James Clear. It was a number one New York Times bestseller and there were over 1 million copies sold.

It was written in 2018 and if you want to listen to an audible, it is five hours and 35 minutes. So it's really not that long at all. And it was given a 4.8 stars in the audible app and it's also considered an audible top listen, which is saying a lot if you ask me, and it has over 140,000 reviews. So Joy, you were actually the person that introduced me to this book. I'm trying to remember exactly how that came about. Do you remember?

Yeah, I think it was just a suggestion that popped up. He says, you know, according to other books you've read, we think you'll like this one. And when I read over the reviews, it sounded like a great book. And plus, I think I had heard it just, I don't know, through media or whatever, it sounded familiar. Yeah, I think...

I had heard of it as well and I think I had heard some really good things about it so it definitely made me want to read it and see what all the hype was about. And there is a lot of hype around this book. Just since I've read it, I've just heard a lot of people, a lot of people have read it, people that I know have read it and people that I know that...

have told me they want to read the book. So just to begin, I loved the book, but I gotta tell you, I'm a sucker for self-help books. If it's anything that I think is gonna help me in some way improve my life, I'm there, especially this one. So I'm just gonna real quickly just touch on the author because it's really important that you understand who he is and kind of his life experiences because that's the whole reason this book was even written, or at least in my opinion, I think it played a

J Q (02:08.305)
big part his background did. So he starts the book off and he's talking about his high school years. So during the last day of his sophomore year in high school, he says he was hit in the face with a baseball bat. He said it resulted in a broken nose. He had multiple skull fractures and he had two shattered eye sockets. He said they rushed him to the hospital and once he got to the hospital, he had a seizure. He quit breathing. He was then given oxygen. He was flown in a helicopter.

to a hospital in Cincinnati and he says once he got to the hospital he was placed on a ventilator and he was put into a medically induced coma.

He mercifully survived the incident, but he said it took eight months before his life returned to some type of normal. so anyway, a tragic, major trauma in his life, right? But he said baseball had always been his life and he dreamed of playing in the major leagues. But when the season returned the next year, he was the only junior to be cut from the varsity baseball team. And yeah, he went on to say that

He was sent down to play with the sophomores on the junior varsity and he said and I quote he says as someone who had spent so much time and effort on the sport getting cut was humiliating and after getting cut he sat in his car and he cried and then he said he made Varsity his senior year, but he only played a total of 11 innings the whole season. That's frustrating. Very frustrating. So even though his high school career was not what he had envisioned he says he

never gave up on his dream and he enrolled in college at Denison University. He said if he knew if he were to have any shot of playing baseball, it was going be totally up to him. And it was here that he discovered the surprising power of small habits.

J Q (04:06.945)
So what a story, first of all. Do you remember some of the things he did in college? He talks about how he started doing these small habits in college that helped him succeed. Do you remember any of things he I just remember he got, he was very disciplined and he was doing things that other students were not and it paid off for him in the end. Wasn't he extra diligent in the weight room? Yes, yeah. He said he started lifting weights like

routinely, you know, every week he would lift weights three to four times a week. He said he went to bed early. He said I kept my dorm room clean. He said I improved my study habits. You he was doing all these things. sounded very disciplined, which is hard to do. Yes, yes. And yeah, he was basically said he was doing things that most college kids weren't. He was being disciplined.

So I'm just curious before we get into the book, do you have any bad habits, Joy, that you would want to share with everyone? Probably too many to count, but just I feel like when I, sleeping in in the morning as a bad habit, I know I need to be up by six, but I hit my snooze button two or three times and it's 6.30 or 6.35 before I get up, which leads to me being stressed from the moment go because I'm rushing around, I'm helping my daughter.

I'm trying to get my dog fed. I mean, my husband's helping me. Don't get me wrong. He's a big help in the morning. But just even that 30 minutes starts my day off on a bad start and it's almost every single morning. I don't make up my bed. Another bad habit is I come home and I'm usually so exhausted. I just come straight in and I take like a two hour nap. Well, that messes up my sleep cycle because then I'm not tired that night.

I could go on and on. have a million bad habits. Okay, let's hear the dirt on you. Okay, so well I was just getting ready say, so if this book was going to help you in any way, that would be the things you would want to correct. yes. Well before we go to me, do you have any good habits? I'm just curious. This is so sad to say. I cannot think of one good habit I Oh, that can't be true.

J Q (06:21.505)
There for a while I was reading my Bible every day. Don't you do a devotional every day? there for a while during my lunch hour every day as soon as I ate my 12 35 alarm would go off and I had my planning period I would do my duo lingo Take my vitamins and read my Bible. I would read a chapter a day Well now I have a girl a student who it's a long story, but she's in there with me now during my planning period

and I love her, but we talk or I just work on, she helps me with grades or whatever. And that has gone to the wayside. Okay, okay. Trust me, I have plenty of bad habits, but here lately, the one thing I've been doing that I feel like's putting me on the right path is I have a little to-do list and it's just very simple. And every day it's.

do my devotional, clean my kitchen, do a load of laundry, and declutter and clean my house for 30 minutes. It's just that simple. Does the 30 minutes cover all of that? No, but you would be surprised how much I get done in the 30 minutes, and it keeps me, as long as my kitchen is staying clean and my laundry's being done, the 30 minutes pretty much takes care of just about whatever needs to be Well, my goal is one hour a day cleaning and decluttering. The problem is our kitchen is always such a mess.

Yeah, your husband likes to cook. Yes, the whole hour usually goes to my kitchen and I don't even get finished and the rest of the house is a disaster and then I have to do schoolwork. Okay. All right. Well, let's get on with the book. So I would like you to read page six, this couple of paragraphs I have underlined. So we just talked about how James Clear, the author, how he started establishing these habits in college. And I'm to have Joy read the results of

the success he had just by starting these good habits. Okay, when my sophomore season arrived, I earned a starting role on the pitching staff. By my junior year, I was voted team captain at the end of the season. I was selected for the all conference team, but it was not until my senior season that my sleep habits, study habits, and strength training habits really began to pay off. Six years after I'd been hit in the face with a baseball bat,

J Q (08:38.155)
flown to the hospital and placed into a coma, I was selected as the top male athlete at Denison University and named the ESPN Academic All-America Team, an honor given to just 33 players across the country. By the time I graduated, I was listed in the school record books in eight different categories. That's amazing. I was listed in the school record books. I'm sorry, I just said that.

That same year, I was awarded the university's highest academic honor, the President's Medal. I hope you'll forgive me if this sounds boastful. To be honest, there was nothing legendary or historic about my athletic career. I never ended up playing professionally. However, looking back on those years, I believe I accomplished something just as rare. I fulfilled my potential. And I believe the concepts in this book can help you fulfill your potential as well.

Yeah, I just thought, you know, you always read these books and you think, well, this is person, you know, what are their credentials and what makes them the authority? But when you have a success... why should I listen to this person? Right. And, you know, he so right there was proof, you know, he is living proof that just those small habits he established and you just read everything that he accomplished. And like he said,

He didn't go on to play major baseball and like that was his dream to play professionally But you know what he said the key thing in that paragraph was I fulfilled my potential I love that and to me it is extraordinary. What he achieved knowing what he had been through Hey, I just remembered one good habit I I have to share it because I don't want to be a total loser So I do teach Spanish, you know, I'm a language teacher. So I'm always trying to grow and learn Spanish I do

I listen on Duolingo every single day. Oh, that's good. I just hit me and I'm at 556 Daystreak. Oh. So over a year. Yes. Well, that's awesome. So my point here is how could I have forgotten that? even though I don't like it, that's a pretty big deal. Yes. Especially if you've been doing it for five or something days and you forgot to read. So 556 Daystreak.

J Q (10:51.169)
Which is pretty good, you know for me. I forgot I do something I've been doing it for almost two years. Yeah Such a habit that I even think about it. Right. Okay. Let me ask you this as it helped you my goodness. Yes, and I think that's gonna kind of put this book in a nutshell Even though I'm only doing it five minute less than a day. I it little increments little things add up to big things

And I've learned so much just that five minute lesson a day. And sometimes I do more if I have more time, but I can't believe I forgot about that. So I do have at least one good I do try to learn Spanish every day. Duolingo. Okay. We can do a little plug for Duolingo. Duolingo. All right. Okay. So just a little bit more about the author after his college career and to show you where he's at now. In 2012, James Clear began publishing articles about his experiments with habits.

And by 2014, he had over 100,000 subscribers to his newsletter. He was now becoming known as an expert on habits. In 2015, he signed a book deal to write the book that you and I are discussing now. And his articles began to appear regularly in major publications like Time and Forbes Magazine. And he was asked to speak for large corporations to their employees about habits and behavior change. Then in 2017, he launched the Habits Academy.

where Fortune 500 companies began enrolling their staff and leaders and over 10,000 people have graduated from the Habits Academy. In 2018, as he was finishing up this book, his website, jamesclear.com, was receiving millions of visitors per month and he now has nearly 500,000 subscribers to his weekly newsletter. and you may be thinking, why are you telling me all this? Our listeners might be thinking this, but it's another.

It's more proof. He talks about in his book how he established habits about writing for his newsletters and getting on his... Everyday he would be like, okay, today I'm going to send out so many emails. I'm going to write for so long today. I'm going to do, I'm going to publish this many articles this month. So even his success in just his writing about habits has been so successful because he was so disciplined in his habits.

J Q (13:11.343)
Does that make sense? And his habits of, you even his habits have contributed to his great success. Yes, of getting his information out to the public, right? So I just spent a lot of time on the introduction and the author because I want you guys to understand exactly who James Clear is, where he came from and why he is where he is now. And it sounds like a, oh, a commercial, but I was just wanting to say his methods have worked for thousands of people and they can work for you too. I sound like I'm a

plugging him, but I do truly believe that after reading this book. I really believe this is one of those books that if you read it and put his methods into action, I do truly believe it can be life-changing. All right, so his book is full of advice on how to build good habits and break bad ones if you haven't figured that out by now. And here is a sneak peek into some of the chapters just to whet your appetite. can't talk tonight. Okay, in chapter one.

He talks about the problem with goals. I thought this was so interesting. did too. He says, goals are at odds with long-term progress. And you're thinking, what? And he says, if you want better results, forget about setting goals. Focus on your system instead. You do not rise to the level of your goals, but you fall to the level of your system. Yeah, this seemed counterintuitive. But once he explained it, it makes sense.

Yeah, like Joy and I was discussing this before the podcast and I was like, do you really understand what he means by like that? And it brought back to mind when my son was playing baseball, their baseball coaches would preach and preach to them. would say, don't focus on winning this tournament or winning the conference championship or whatever. said, focus on the process. They said, come to practice every day.

Focus on the fundamentals on the process. As long as you're taking care of business and what you're supposed to be doing on a daily basis, the results will take care of themselves. And that's kind of the same thing he's saying here. Anything you want to add to that? No, like I said, when I first heard it, I thought that doesn't make sense. But once he explained it. Because you're like everybody sets goals. Yeah, if you're.

J Q (15:21.583)
If your goal is just on that championship, but you don't have the fundamentals down or you're not practicing the basics every day, you're never going to get to that championship. Yeah, and he makes the comment in his book. says, you know, every team that's, let's just say every team that's in the NBA, he said, yeah, they all want to win that championship game. He said, they all have the goal to win games. He said, but if you're not focusing on the process and what it takes to win the game, doesn't matter what goals you have in place. Right.

All right, so he claims there are four laws of behavior change when you're trying to create good habits. So one of the first things he says, and this is pretty funny, but he says, make it obvious. Being aware of good and bad habits. And I'm gonna have Joy, this is kind of funny, I'm gonna have her read this little paragraph on page 66, it's just one paragraph.

The first step to changing bad habits is to be on the lookout for them. If you feel like you need extra help, then you can try pointing and calling in your own life. Say out loud the action that you're thinking of taking and what the outcome will be. If you wanna cut back on your junk food habit, but notice yourself grabbing another cookie, say out loud. That's funny, cause I just ate two sugar cookies. I'm about to eat this cookie, but I don't need it.

Eating it will cause me to gain weight and hurt my health. Hearing your bad habits spoken aloud makes the consequences seem more real. Yeah, so I hope you guys caught that, that are listening to this. what she just read, he was literally saying like, when you see yourself getting ready to do a bad habit like eating a cookie that you know you don't need, he was saying, you literally say out loud, that's a cookie, that is fattening, I don't need that cookie, it will make me, it will.

not help me reach my goals. is that kind what he said? I already forgot what you just read. anyway, all right. Number two, he says, make it attractive. The more attractive an opportunity is, the more likely it is to become habit forming. Well, that's kind of a no brainer, right? He says, join a culture where your desired behavior is the normal behavior and do something you enjoy immediately before a difficult habit. Have you ever done that joy? You enjoy.

J Q (17:36.815)
Do something you enjoy before you have to do a Because I would think of it as after as a reward. Me too, I was the same way. So I need an example here. I kind of look at it as like, I really don't want to clean my shower today. But okay Angie, if you clean the shower today...

When you get done, you can spend 30 minutes watching an episode of something on Netflix. Right. That's I like it. But it says do something you enjoy doing immediately before a difficult habit. I have to say, I might kind of disagree with him to watch Netflix and then go clean your shower? I kind of disagree with him on that. I feel like if you do it before, who's to say you're actually going to go do the thing that you don't want to do? Once I'm down to watch that Netflix, I'm not getting back up.

I don't get that one. I don't either. I may have to go back and read that chapter. Yeah, it's a little confusing. Okay, then he says make it easy Create an environment where doing the right thing is as easy as possible We naturally gravitate toward the option that requires the least amount of work Yeah, I think that's why I can't get to the clutter in my every corner of my bedroom because it takes work to lift everything out of the corner Yes, go through it. Yeah

Then he says, number four, make it satisfying. We are more likely to repeat a behavior when the experience is satisfying. How's cleaning a bathtub ever gonna be satisfying to me? Well, we're talking about habits here. That's just something that's like a task that has to be done. I know, but how do I get in the habit of cleaning my bathtub? I see. Well, like he said, you gotta make it rewarding. So turn on some music.

Yeah, there's no way you can make cleaning a bathtub that fast. I just don't see how making a, cleaning a toilet, cause that's one of my things. I want to be in the habit of having a clean bathroom every week. I don't know. What's his name again? James Clear. I know you'll never listen to this James Clear, but we need to know how to be motivated to clean a toilet and a bathtub. We both hate cleaning our You know what I think he would say that this just popped in my head. I think he would say something like, okay, every time you get out of the shower,

J Q (19:42.543)
have a spray that's literally sitting right there and an old rag and just and wipe it down every time and then it's not hard because it's already clean at the moment and I'm already wet and I'm already in the shower and then by the end of the you know and there's never gonna be a time that it's gonna be difficult to clean because you're cleaning it every day. Thank you for channeling James Clear. I think you're right. I think that's exactly what he would say. I'm just guessing. No I think you're right. think you would easy. You're right make it easy and this is what's sad is I do have a quick

cleaner right there. I do have a sponge in there. And I do that every once in a while. And that's what I tell my kids So I just need to make habit. Right before I get out of the shower, I'm going to spray it.

wipe it down and be done. Yeah, because I tell my daughter all the time she hates cleaning her bathtub and I tell them all the time if you'll do it at least once a week at least I said it won't be so hard, know, because by the time we get to it it's like okay which you got to get to through three layers of duck. Exactly. Okay then he talks about how to break bad habits and I'm just going to briefly touch on a few of the tips he says make it invisible reduce exposure. Okay so hide all the sugary foods

Yes, yes, beg my husband to keep quit bringing home little Debbie's every time he goes to the store I'm so glad you mentioned that because I was trying to think how am I gonna explain? Breaking a bad habit make it invisible, but Joy's absolutely right if there's something that you do. That's a bad habit Eating too much sugar like she said eating too much sugar. That's one of my biggest downfalls so yeah if you can't see it and it says reduce exposure naturally if you've got a tub of chocolate chip ooey gooey chocolate chip cookies

sitting next to you, of course you want to reach over and grab one. Especially if they're It's just as simple as are they within reach or are they not? Exactly. Okay, make it unattractive, reframe your mindset and highlight the benefits of Cover those cookies with sauerkraut. Or carrots. put carrot shavings on them.

J Q (21:46.43)
I love that reframe your mindset and highlight the benefits of avoiding your bad habits. Well, I don't know about that one Okay, so it's make it difficult. Yeah, put those chocolate chip cookies in the on top of my dryer. What you A ladder to get to them. Joy's having issues with her. She has a new dryer. She literally has to stand on the step ladder. Yeah, so have it stacked on top of a washing machine. But it's funny anyway. Yeah, make it difficult. Okay, so I set up my desk at work. I have a guilty pleasure at work. I keep chocolate in my top drawer. Well

I was I think about this all the time I think okay quit bringing it to work only bring like two and then put them in the cabinet in the kitchen where I work we have to walk I have to walk and get them at least do something to make yeah put the celery in your drawer and put the chocolate in the kitchen wait you make it unsatisfying is the last thing okay so every time I reach in for chocolate I need to have a mousetrap sitting there that'll be something gross sitting there

And obviously we're just kind of kidding around, but if you read the book, of course he goes into great depth on each of these points and tells you how to do it. And it's all very simplistic and it's all very doable. All right, Joy, did you have any part of the book that you remember that was interesting to you or helpful to you? So it's been a long time since I've read the book, but just the overall message did hit home with me. It did resonate with me that even though it may seem

Inconsequential or not really? Worthwhile at the time even like I said even just doing Duolingo five minutes a day No matter what it is if it's a healthy good habit as long as you're consistent and You build up that habit and you do it over time. It's gonna reap big dividends Yeah, and I believe that whether it's you're learning a language or exercise or keeping your house clean his

His advice can apply to

J Q (23:45.674)
any area of your life. And that's why I think it's been such a big seller because it is helpful. And if you do follow the principles in the book, I do think you follow those little atomic habits, those little bitty baby steps that they can result in big changes. Yeah. And I like the way his book is laid out. Every single chapter, he starts out with a really interesting story and the story. There's always a good anecdote to tie into what he's about to always correlates to what he's getting ready to tell you. And all the stories are really interesting. this was one of those books.

There's only one other book that actually I feel like I can compare to this book and it was How to Simplify Your Life and I read that years and years ago and to this day I always look at that book as it was kind of one of those books that kind of made me have this epiphany like this aha moment of I was really, my life was way more complicated than what it had to be and it was just kind of one of those books that kind of changed my way of thinking about life in general and this book is kind of that way too as far as habits are concerned and I gotta tell you,

the Audible has the bookmark feature. was bookmarking every time I turned around in this book I was bookmarking stuff and so that's one of the reasons I bought the hard copy was because well for one thing he has graphs and things in here that are very visual you have to look at visually and this is just one of those books I kind of look at it as a workbook and I'm gonna probably keep it out until I get into the habit of using a lot of these ideas that he has until I get really familiar. I'll actually

want to read the book again and I want to become very familiar with the whole mindset behind each of these. I because I listen to the book, there's so much stuff I don't remember, but Angie was kind enough to buy me my own copy and I do plan on reading the hard copy. But one thing that did stand out to me that I do remember is he had these real such practical advice and I don't remember the exact advice, but I'll give you an example. I'm talking about, let's say I want to exercise every day and she have just saying,

I'm gonna exercise for 30 minutes a day. His advice is you have to have concrete, pre-made steps that you're gonna do. In other words, when I get home from work and I put my keys down, I will change clothes, I will go and get out of my work clothes and put on my work. And have that stuff already set out. Yes, I will have my work clothes set out. I will go change.

J Q (26:09.958)
I mean, it's very concrete. As soon as I put my keys down, I will walk to my bedroom. I will get my workout clothes on that I have set out the night before. I mean, it's step by step by step. And that really hit home with me because how many times have I said, okay, I'm gonna exercise for 20 minutes today. I'm gonna exercise for just 30 minutes a day, but I don't have a concrete plan. And because of that.

I'll get home and go, I'll do it later. I'll do it later. Then something comes up and it never happens. So you have to have concrete. Yes. have to have stuff ABC one, two, three. When I do this, I will do that. he even cuts it down that specific. He even says in his book.

when I do A then I will do B then I will do C. He's like you have to have it planned out step Right and it's so simple and it's such common sense but it's so basic but I've never thought okay yes I'm gonna exercise 30 minutes but I never thought about exactly what's gonna happen before I do that. even used in the book as an example he said a lot of people like they'll join a gym but if the gym is literally not on your way home he said because it's not

easy. He says people tend to not go. That was another example of making it easy. Right. Okay, so I wanted to write down like 20 things that was helpful to me in the book, but instead I just wrote down

like three or four. So I'm just gonna read him what I really got from the book or what really helped me was one thing he mentioned was it's called the plateau of latent potential. And I was thinking, what in the heck is that? But anyway, he says, when you feel like you spent a lot of time and effort, but you're not seeing any progress. Okay, how many of us have done that on diet, whether it's dieting, exercise, or maybe trying to learn a language, whatever it might be. So he says, when you feel like you spent a lot of time and effort,

J Q (28:03.302)
that aren't seeing any progress. He says, just because you haven't seen the results doesn't mean you're not making progress. He says, your work is being stored until you cross a critical threshold, and this requires patience. So what he was saying was, he said, it's just like an ice cube. He said, you can sit there and watch an ice cube and watch it and watch it. He said, but as long as it's at 32 degrees, it's going to stay in that same state. He said, but the minute it finally hits that

that state where like the 33 degrees when it starts to melt, said, he said, sometimes.

Because you're not seeing something doesn't mean that you're not making progress. forgot about that. love that. Just because you're not seeing progress doesn't mean it's not happening. Exactly. And he says sometimes it just takes a lot longer. But he said once it starts happening, it'll happen quickly. You'll start seeing stuff more quickly. All right. And then we've already mentioned this, but he said if you want better results, stop focusing on goals, focus on your system. He says when you start a new habit, start small with the two minute rule.

habits should not take more than two minutes to do and I thought that was good because you start out small he says habits form based on frequency and not time yeah I love that um can you kind of explain what he means by that no I need you to I understand what he's saying but I'm not sure how I would explain it yeah so I like he I kind of what he's saying is like you're trying to

build a habit, form a habit, and you might say, okay, well I've done it like, you know, I've been working on this habit for six months now, but his point is, okay, if you've only done it three or four times per month, that's not gonna help you, but let's just say you've done it multiple times through multiple weeks, it's more about the frequency. It's more about frequency repetition, okay, and then he says, and this is one of my favorite things he says in the book, he says, having a bad day in your habit routine is worse than you might think.

J Q (30:01.35)
zero even if it means just doing a couple of squats and a push-up he says do something. that has really helped me because... Never put up a zero. So there's been days like I know it's my day to work out because I have certain days I like to work out and he and there's days I'm like I just don't feel like doing it but he says it's

way better to do something. said even if you just do a couple push-ups and he said because when you don't do something and he explains it in depth why this is so important. says you go backwards so much further than if you just do something. Okay, I wish we could spend more time on this. The book is just...

Very in depth, it's very, very insightful. You will learn so much from this book. So Joy, how many tiny habits do you give this book? I give it four tiny habits. Okay, that's

I'll give it for two and would you recommend this book to others and if so to who? Yeah, absolutely if you have a lot of bad habits like I do if you're not disciplined if nothing else that motivates you to want to be Exactly, you know, it makes you want to form good habits and it gives you the tools to do them

Exactly, yeah. Okay, so we're gonna go ahead and wrap this thing up, but just to reiterate a little bit, I did think the book was very interesting. And one thing I didn't mention was that he does have tons of scientific data. So this isn't just his opinions or his, he's literally got all kinds of science to back his To me, that was one of the negatives. I know he had to do it to build credibility and to show the science behind it, but...

J Q (31:42.142)
I just wanted to get to the points. I believe you, there's scientific data, but did you feel like there was maybe a lot of information? You know, there was, but I thought it was interesting. the fact that so much of this is based on studies and lots, just studying different people, especially people's psyche, because to me, that part was interesting to me. He talks a lot through the book about why we do the things we do.

And here's just a, we're getting really close, just a couple of chapters we didn't talk about, but I thought were very interesting and helpful. So one chapter he says, motivation is overrated. He says environment often matters more. So that made me stop and think. Motivate, let me read that again. Motivation is overrated.

environment often matters more. You want to explain that one? I'm gonna be honest with you, it's been a minute since I've read that, but he's talking about how sometimes our environment plays a much bigger role on our habits than whether we're motivated or not. Let's just take someone who's addicted to drugs. You can be motivated...

crazy to quit drugs, but if you're in a house full of drug users, that's not gonna help. think that's he's kind of getting that there. So then they had a chapter called The Secret to Self-Control. Joy had just said earlier, she said, I need to go back and read that chapter. Yeah, I need to reread that chapter. He talks about the role of family and friends in shaping your habits and that plays a big part. One chapter was how to stop procrastinating using the two-minute Oh, I need to reread that one too.

another chapter was called the truth about talent. I love that chapter because yes you have to have a little talent obviously I don't think or I don't think a five-foot-two guy is gonna be a professional football I mean professional basketball player anytime soon. Yeah that chapter was good. Some of it yes you have to have a little talent you had to but so much of it is about work ethic and habits. Yes but he yes you're absolutely right he talked about your habits

J Q (33:53.938)
can play a huge role whether you have the talent or not. Like he even says, some of the most talented athletes in the world, it wasn't so much that they were talented, it was that they were disciplined in their habits. But the other thing on the flip side of that was he says, there might be something that you want to accomplish in your life, but just.

Practically speaking you're not built for that or you weren't you were not endowed with certain traits that you need like he talks about Michael Phelps the Olympic swimmer is Physically built to be an Olympic swimmer see that's one of my pet peeves is when I hear Just work for it and you can be anything you want. You can do anything you want. I don't agree with that Yes, that goes a long way your work ethic and your habits, but like I said, it's gonna be

hard to be a pro basketball player when you're 5'2". You know what I mean? There are just some things you can't do. you have to pick something that's realistic and then work hard for it. and that's part of his point was, so there's two sides of that coin. On the one side,

There's just certain things in life we weren't meant to do. you know, we just want... Does that bug you when you hear that? Yeah, it does. Yeah, I was just curious if I'm the only one that No, I agree with you. It's like you tell a little kid... can do anything guys can do. No, they can't. Yeah, yeah. We better all get I don't know, but it's just... And it's just not mental. It's physical. We're just not as big and strong. And men can't have babies. I mean, it's just common sense, you know? That's another thing that drives me insane. And that's what I love about this guy.

Everything in this book is so...

J Q (35:29.438)
practical. It's black and white. It's hey, you know, no, you know, you can't be a professional swimmer because you weren't you're not built like Michael Phelps. then on the other side, though, he's so encouraging because he says, there's so many people that they are where they are. And it's not because they have this exceptional talent is because they work hard at their habits. So there's he's very, so it is encouraging. It's encouraging. Yeah. Okay. And then the last chapter was that I wrote down that I thought was really interesting was the secret to results at last.

and he talked about... was it... I cannot remember what sport he was talking about but he was talking to someone like that was a coach in this sport. One story was about a rowing team. Okay. Like in England or somewhere. This was talking about... I don't know if it was golf or whatever it was anyway he was talking to the coach and he said tell me what the secret to these guys success okay the guys that are doing really that are excelling at this sport.

And you know what that coach's answer was? He said these guys were able to overcome boredom during their workouts. that was the weightlifting. Was it weightlifting? Yes. I'm almost sure it was the weightlifters. OK. But his point was, and he said he wasn't expecting that answer, but that coach said people who are willing to put in the work and build good habits and be disciplined and can overcome. Or it might have been the ones that do the triathlons or whatever.

But yeah, whatever it was whatever it was. He says they overcame boredom. Yes, he there's just some things in life Everything sounds glamorous, but there's just some things in life that aren't exactly what they say. Yeah, they could work through the boredom Yeah, that was interesting. Okay, so that's all I had on atomic habits by James Clare I thought it was very very good, but and you give it for I give it for four tiny habits and I thought it was definitely tiny habit. Yeah, just I just

trying to get creative. Oh, that's not real creative, but I you said atomic habit. No, tiny. Yeah. So, all right. So I think what do we got coming up, Joy? We're going to do a book about El McPherson. I read a book or listened to a book about El McPherson. I told Angie not to read it. I'll just tell you that up front and I'm just going to go through.

J Q (37:48.098)
why I don't want her to read it. Okay, that's gonna be fun. Yeah. That's probably gonna be our next podcast. Yeah, so I'm gonna tell you, there are positives to the book, but I'm just gonna save you some time. And I think once I go over the book and kind of go over the gist of the book, you'll thank me for having saved you the pain.

Okay, is the name of the book L? The name of the book is L and there's like a little subtitle underneath it but I can't remember what it But it's about the supermodel It is about the supermodel L. McPherson. It's not all gonna be negative but I think once I read a couple of excerpts you're gonna be like, oh, okay. You're gonna thank me. Okay. Alright guys, well once again we do truly appreciate you joining us. It's always an honor to know that people are out there listening to us, you know, when you could be spending your time just about anywhere else.

So thank you for joining us and we will see you next time on Twin Talk.