96 : Last Night at The Viper Room: River Phoenix and the Hollywood He Left Behind

Join us as we discuss "Last Night at The Viper Room" which discusses the life of the much-loved River Phoenix. See why this book provoked such strong emotions among its readers and us....

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Transcript

J Q (00:01)
Hello and welcome to Twin Talk. I'm Angie and I'm here with my sister Joy and we are bringing you yet another great book. Tonight we're discussing the book, Last Night at the Viper Room, River Phoenix and the Hollywood He Left Behind. It's by Gavin Edwards and it was published in October of 2013. So I'm gonna just read the summary real quickly, Joy.

In Last Night at the Viper Room, acclaimed author and journalist Gavin Edwards vividly recounts the life and tragic death of acclaimed actor River Phoenix, a teen idol on the fast track to Hollywood royalty who died of a drug overdose in front of West Hollywood's storied club, The Viper Room, at the age of 23. Last Night at the Viper Room explores the young star's life, including his childhood in Venezuela, growing up under the cultish children of God.

putting him at the center of a new generation of leading men emerging in the early 1990s, including Johnny Depp, Keanu Reeves, Brad Pitt, Nicolas Cage, and Leonardo DiCaprio. Gavin Edwards traces the Academy Award nominees meteoric rise, couches him in an examination of the 1990s, and illuminates his lasting legacy on Hollywood and popular culture itself. Okay, ⁓

I love River Phoenix. always been, was always one of my favorite actors. And it's weird to say that because I've only seen a couple of his films, but that's how much of an impact he made on me. And, you know, we grew up with River Phoenix because he's basically the same age as River. So who is River Phoenix to you? When you think back on the time while he was alive, do you know much about, did you know much about him before? No, all I remember, like if

River Phoenix to me means Stand By Me. I remember his role in that because Stand By Me is one of my all-time favorite movies. I guess so. It's really the title song that I love so much. love the... yeah. Anyway... Yes. Yes, that one. I love that song. That's probably one of favorite songs. Yeah, it is a good song.

So I remember him in that and I always thought he had a really cool name, know, River Phoenix, this just sounds like a cool name. And I knew that he died at a young age of a drug overdose. And that's pretty much all I really knew about him until I read this book. Okay. So like I said, we're at the same age. He was born August of 70. We were born October 70. So we're the same age. Yeah. I had no idea we were the same age as him. Yeah. Which makes it even more tragic that he had

How old was when he died? think he was 23. 23, I can't even imagine. He was definitely a teen idol, which the book talks about that. Of course he detested that. And I'm guessing so. We had a friend, Julie, who loved the teen idol magazines. And I'm thinking that maybe the reason he seems so familiar to me is maybe we looked at pictures of him in these magazines. Possibly. I do remember that he was very charismatic.

Very good looking. To me, he had this kind of dreamy, smoldering quality about him. Kind of like you said when we were talking before the podcast, kind of a James Dean-ish. Yeah, he almost had that very serious James Deany quality. Yes, and he was very talented. They recognized his talent at an early age. And when you watched him, like in Stand By Me, I can very confidently say that anyone who watched him in that movie knew he had a future in acting. Yes, he did.

He did an outstanding job in that movie. Yeah, he just kind of had that. In Hollywood, they say that some people just have that it factor. You can't really say ⁓ exactly what it is. It's just a combination of qualities. But he had the it factor. He just had a very promising future. It was very evident to everyone. So the thing that really stood out to me in the book...

you know, his childhood. my gosh. ⁓ I was shocked by his childhood. If you get nothing else out of this book, just for our listeners, you need to read this book just to hear about his childhood because it really did shape who he became later in life. And this is interesting. His real name is River Jude Bottom. Yes. And when I found out that, I mean, think about it, River Bottom. Yes. When I...

found out that his real last name was Bottom, I totally understood why the dad changed their last when we say his real name, we're using that loosely. His parents were hippies, they would change their name at the drop of a hat. Whatever they were feeling in the moment.

Anyway, but we know for sure River had meaning. Yes, and Jude, they also... That was from Hey Jude from the Beatles. I believe so. Yeah, I'm sure. So, the names were very significant. even his sister, she was like...

I don't like my name so she changed her name from something to Rainbow, remember that? it went from Rain to Rainbow. Yes, and so like their parents were like, okay if that's what you feel like today then that's what your name is. The thing that was most troubling to me was that the first, of the, one of the groups they followed were all about experimenting sexually when you're young. Yes. And they encouraged the young

younger the better and the way it sounded to me was that there might have been some pedophilia going on and they never come out and say that River was sexually abused but you can't help but put two and two together and figure out that he probably was from a young age. actually in the book and I guess we need to say for now it's been a little while since I've listened to several books since. Me too. But in my notes that they actually do say that he revealed to several people that he was sexually molested at the age of four.

Okay, yeah, and I think that shaped him a lot. Yeah, it was just kind of crazy and here's the thing he was the eldest of five children

And they were kind of like wanderers. They kind of wandered around and followed these different religious cults and things. And they ended up in Venezuela. his parents joined the Children of God. Well, some people say religious group, but most people knew it was a cult. So when he was three years old, okay, is when they joined that. And then they traveled as missionaries and they lived in all these different locations outside the United States.

And here's what was really interesting. They earned money by picking fruit and performing music on the streets. Well, they would put River and his brothers and sisters out on the street and perform and that's how they made money. So even at an early age, he felt this pressure to provide for his family. that's one my big takeaways from the book was he has always had the pressure of the world on his shoulders because he was providing for himself and his whole family. Yeah. And extended family.

Okay, so after they returned from Venezuela...

⁓ They returned to the US and they settled in California and that's when they changed their last name to Phoenix. ⁓ He never attended formal school. He and his siblings continued to perform to help support the family and then he began his acting career at the age of 10 and he started by appearing in television commercials and series and things like that. So okay, anything else you want to say about his childhood before we go on? was just horrific by any means. ⁓

He went hungry a lot, roaming from place to place, being sexually abused. It just sounded horrible to me. Yeah, the one thing that stood out to me, one of the stories that stood out was about his childhood, was they caught a ride on a boat when they wanted to. I think they were coming back to the United States and they were so poor. They were always having to have people help them and they were on this boat and it was like a fishing boat or something and there was people fishing and when they would catch the fish, they would stick them like on this.

I don't know if it's like a nail or something like a spike and they they said River and his siblings were absolutely horrified like they said it just seems so cruel seeing those fish just stuck on those spikes. Yes, they were definitely against any harm to animals. Yes, and so at that they were vegan. So he was very well known for being a vegan and they said that was the turning point was when he saw those fish being treated like that's when he decided to become a vegan.

vegetarian and all that stuff. I want to know the difference to be honest with I think vegan is You have to eat you can't eat anything to do with animals, right? Yeah, I think that might include dairy. Is that not what vegetarian means? Vegetarian means you don't eat meat, but I vegan also includes dairy like milk, think. so anything to do with animals. Yes. they produced it. ⁓ okay. I'm pretty sure.

Okay, so he starts acting at the age of 10. He does some commercials and he lands a series. He's in that series, Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. I think he's one of the sons in that. So he ends up becoming a very highly acclaimed actor. Of course, we know he had a pretty relatively short career because of his untimely death, but even so, he still left this lasting impression in the world. His...

most notable works were Stand By Me. He filmed that in 86 and we would have been 16. Running on Empty in 1988, my own private Idaho in 91, he did that with Keanu Reeves in Indiana. Jones and the Last Crusade was in 89. And I was just wondering, have you?

seen any of these movies other than Stand The only one I've seen besides Stand By Me is that Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and River Phoenix played the young Indiana Jones and he was a boy scout and I do remember him. I do remember scenes of him being the boy scout. Yes, yeah and he was so cute. He was just a doll and ⁓ yeah, that's a really cool sequence that whole, I like the Indiana Jones movies. Yeah. I'm not a real big action.

movie type person, but I do like the Indiana Jones movies. I like Harrison Ford. Yeah, I liked his character. Yeah. that just reminded me of something in the book, they made it sound like he was always looking for a father figure. And so every time he would do a movie, whoever had the lead role,

They would always take him under their wing and he would always look at them kind of as a father figure. Yes, and really pick their brains and learned everything he could from them about acting. Yeah, and then the other aspect of River's life was he loved music. He wasn't even that thrilled about acting.

And I got to think again. Yeah, he just kept, he used acting as a way to pay the bills and take care of his family, but he just saw it as a stepping stone to his music career. Yes, he really cared more about a music career than he did acting. And same way with Johnny Depp. Isn't Johnny Depp the same way? He cares more about his music than acting. Yeah, and I, you know, what is it with these actors who would rather be musicians? I feel like that's a very common theme. I have to have more.

biographies about male actors who their real passion was music and not acting. Acting paid the bills but they wanted to play music. but yet I feel like they're much better actors than musicians. Right, and that's what's funny about River is he was, so he was, let's just talk about his personality a little bit. Like the way they described him in this book, because they did, so in the book they do a lot of quotes, they talk about a lot of people that knew him, wrote memoirs, or wrote their own

Autobiographies and they would mention what River was like and he was just a little different So like they said the way he grew up his family didn't joke and they were very serious So he'd be on a movie set and people would be joking around and he didn't know how to take a joke right and like you know how to deliver jokes or maybe because he didn't know the humor he wasn't familiar with the reference and he wasn't familiar with like Humor in the United States, so they had to almost teach him how to do comic

Comedy in the movies so they would have a script and they would have it like a built-in joke and he would say what and he would he wouldn't just say a line just to say the line he had to know What's the point of this? Why am I saying this? How is it funny? Yeah, and they'd have to sit there and explain to him Okay, this is funny because right because he didn't get he was awkward in a way because he had been homeschooled his whole life He was so socially isolated

He didn't know how to interact with people. So they said that was a problem for him on movie sets because he didn't know how to interact with the other actors and directors. I just thought that was funny though that he didn't understand the comedy. he started playing guitar at a very early age. Like a friend of the family gave him a guitar and then he started this band and I don't know how you pronounce it. I pronounced it Alekis Attic.

Mm-hmm. Is that how you would say it? guess so. A Lakers attic with his sister, Rain. And this was a band that they had in the late 80s and they played a lot while they were living in Gainesville, Florida. Well, that's just so weird to me, picturing them being in Gainesville, Florida. Of course, that's where like ⁓ the University of Florida is that, is that right? Yes. Yeah. and he would, they talked about how he went on campus in Florida looking for like

people to play in his band. was looking for specific bass player or something. that part of the book, that's a big part of the book is his music because he was very passionate. And it did seem like it was kind of a weird, folky, rock type music. Something that I probably would not want to, I wouldn't enjoy.

The other thing that I personally found interesting in the book was they did talk a lot about the friends he made along the way in Hollywood. the most famous or most notable would be Keanu Reeves, Ethan Hawke, Matthew Perry, and then his musical friends was Flea. He's a bassist for the Red Hot Chili Peppers. he was friends. Matter of fact, think Flea was one of the ones on the stage. I know it was Johnny Depp and Flea and a few others that were on.

The stage the night that he overdosed, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then of course, most people probably know Joaquin Phoenix is his younger brother. And that's so weird to me thinking he's his younger brother. Right. Yeah, because he's, because when River died, he's forever in my mind that age. And then here Joaquin is much older and just, I don't know, it's just surreal. and then they do talk extensively about the night that he died. You know, he was...

He was in the Viper Room, which is owned by Johnny Depp. That's one reason why it was such a famous club because Johnny Depp owned it. then says, following several days of binging on cocaine and heroin, he collapsed outside Hollywood's Viper Room nightclub right in front of his brother, sister, and girlfriend on Halloween night, October 31st, 1993.

they said he'd been binging for several days and he went out when he went outside They said he took a fatal cocktail of drugs that included well I wonder they did not name the person in the book, but they said it was an old band mate from a previous band Handed him and said try this it'll make you feel great and they said River being the guy that he was Didn't question what was in it or anything. He trusted him. He trusted him and he just took it and and just

I think he just drank it down immediately. But what he didn't know is that it was a mixture of heroin and cocaine. Right. Like a speedball, whatever they call it. If you go online, the guy's name is John something, I can't remember. Well, they didn't name him in the book because I was wondering who it was. They did not, but if you go online, it's all over the place. just know they used to be in a band together. so they did not, he didn't go to jail They may have used to be in a band together, but the guy that they say on the internet was

was part of a very, very famous band. He was very one Who was that? It might have been the Red Hot Chili Peppers. It might have been another member. I can't remember. I hate to say all this because I'm not sure. Well, they didn't press charges though. That's one thing about River Phoenix's family. They said they didn't want anybody to go to jail over it because River willingly drank it, whether he knew what was in it or not.

This guy did not go to jail and he lucky. They didn't press charges There's a lot of people on the internet that are defending that guy saying like he didn't intentionally well No, he never dreamed out. He never dreamed it would kill him right, but I'm just saying these days I think people would sue in a heartbeat. He just got lucky. Nobody pressed charges but the saddest thing to me was

He is with his sister, his brother and his girlfriend. His sister and his brother were younger than him. And they said, like the time that he started feeling sick, there's a lot of people believe that they would have called 911 immediately. They probably could have prevented it or maybe he might have survived. Well his agent even knew. They called his agent and said, he's not doing well. And she's like, didn't she say don't call 911 because they wanted to protect his reputation or did she say call 911?

I cannot remember but that's I just know that the holdup on calling 911 from what I remember of the book was they were trying to protect his reputation because he had a pretty clean reputation. He always denounced drugs and they didn't want him to be associated with being a drug a druggy. So that's the point I'm trying to make is they they did everything but call 911. Yes. They talked to a couple people. They called his agent. They went outside. His sister was

They were trying to do things outside to help him, and you can't blame Joaquin. Right. You can't blame them because they're so young. They're panicking. They're They're panicking. They're a shot. never been put in that position. But you would think like to me. Yeah. Of course, like you said, he doesn't want to be connected with a bad reputation. And you know, if you go to the hospital, it's going to be all in the tabloids and all the papers.

So I feel like his stardom was working against him. Exactly, yeah. And one of the things I read was Joaquin said, he said, I thought someone had given him some type of sedative or something. He thought he'd been given something, but he said it never occurred to him. It could be something deadly. So they thought he was having a reaction to something, but in their minds, it wasn't something that was life threatening. But then when he started seizing, then they were like, ⁓ something's wrong. So anyway, that to me, the most tragic thing was,

It was like they did everything but what they should have done, which was call 911. And then he told a guy in the bathroom, he said, I feel like I'm overdosing. Oh, River told somebody that? Yes. Oh, I missed that. And the guy says, he said, well, you're still standing and you're still talking, so I don't think you are. And then he said later Did you read that in the book or in another article? No, I read that in another article. And the guy that had told him, think he said, to this day, I feel horrible.

that I told him that. He said, but in my mind, he was still talking to me and he just, you know, he wasn't like on the ground or anything. So, So basically the book covers, it covers pretty much, you know, his entire life. And then you were talking earlier about how it really does delve into Hollywood and what was going on at Hollywood at the time.

Right after his death you think the book would be over but it's really not it continues to go on to some of the this you know the guys leading male actors of the time and some female and kind of what happened after he died it talks about some of the movie roles that he was supposed to be in that were taken on by other actors and things like that. Yeah did you know that he was going to be in an interview with the vampire? Yes. And he was going to do the

part that Christian Slater did. And I thought it was really cool. Christian Slater went ahead and took the part, but he did not take a salary for it and he donated it to, I believe he donated it to the One of Rivers Charities. Yes, he did. Which was very cool. Yeah, that was awesome that he did that. Yeah, very cool of him. so my favorite type of actor is

Ethan Hawke, Christian Slater, that type of guy is the guy that's always got my attention. And I think he kind of fits in with them. River does, know, they just kind of all have that same vibe to me. I like Keanu. You know, the reason I think I like them too is because when you read of what they're like in real life, none of them are really after fame. Yeah. And none of them really want the...

stardom or the attention and then they're generous to other people they have other people like Keanu Reeves is infamous for I'm off infamous is the right word but he is well known for being generous and not living a gaudy lifestyle and that's how River was even when he was famous and making some money he was just wearing old

He was all about being authentic and true to himself. hated anything that was false or fake. I think he kind of detested Hollywood and what it stood for, but he knew it was kind of a necessary evil because he knew he had to make the money to provide. And one of his girlfriends, I can't remember if this was in the book or if I just read it, but she said that he had made the comment, I need to do another film so that I can send my sister to college.

Okay, I'm just gonna read a couple of book reviews because there was four book reviews that I liked from Goodreads because they said exactly how I felt. The first one's from Lori. She said, book just leaves me sad and a bit angry. I don't think anyone can deny that River Phoenix was incredibly talented. He seemed to be a gentle soul, but troubled.

Christy said, you would think after all these years I could read this and not get sad. Wrong. How can you not be sad over a life gone way too soon? What did I learn mostly from this book was that River had a kind and gentle soul and even with his drug use that did not go away, you can't help but wonder where he would be right now. If he was still alive, you can't help but want that. Right. And that's why I was saying before the podcast, I just hate that he left a legacy of his legacy as, could have been a great actor, but died on a drug overdose.

Whereas it would have been cool. If he's our age, he'd be 54. And it's too bad, because he probably would have left behind some really good works, some great movies. Vicki said, it's been a while since a book captivated, angered, and saddened me this much. What a beautiful, radiant selfie was.

The only thing that bugged me about the audiobook is it almost sounded like an AI voice. It was a very generic male voice. Yeah, I didn't like the audio. I just wish that they would have had...

I don't know if it was AI or not, but it didn't sound authentic and there wasn't a lot of passion in the reading and I wish they would have had someone maybe well-known, maybe even someone from his group like Keanu Reeves or somebody read it, you know? The book is just told in a very blunt matter-of-fact way. it's not like, I don't know how explain it. It's more like a reading a report. Yeah, it's not even like very entertaining, but what makes it entertaining is the subject matter. The information. that make sense? Yes. So it's like, it's not like the book like keeps you just wanting to hear more, but

if you're really interested in River Phoenix, you want to hear more. But no, I did not like the narration. And like you said, then you add a boring narration and that doesn't help at all. didn't Yeah, subject matter is interesting, but not the narrator. Exactly. So then the last one that I want to read was from Addie. She says, I was madly in love with River. He was dreamy, talented, and passionate. A little bit of me died with him, I think.

So young, so tragic with his little brother at his side, so sad. After reading about his upbringing and the pressure put on him to provide for the family, it's no wonder that gorgeous and promising young man turned to drugs. Yeah, I can see why he did it.

Okay. So overall thoughts of the book. If you are a River Phoenix fan, yes.

Definitely read it. I must read if you're a river Phoenix fan, although they probably already know all this stuff if they're a big fan. to Be sad. Yeah, sad and angry. Be prepared to be angry. It's it's just like we've said I don't want to beat a dead horse, but Such a promising actor such a promising future and to die the way he did. It's just it's tragic It's it's it's just heart-wrenching

He was a beautiful person. I agree with them when they said he's a beautiful soul and just to see a life cut short like that. It's just, it's just. Yeah. It leaves you feeling sad. And it's dark. There's so much darkness to the book. Yeah. You're right. I just, the whole time I was listening to it, was almost like, it almost put me in a state of depression. So I don't know.

I don't know about you, Joy, but I'm kind of ready to be done with the Hollywood memoir, biography, autobiography thing for a while. It's been a long time since I've read a book about a movie star or someone famous that-

just isn't sad to me. There's just an emptiness there and I'm of ready to do something Demi Moore was dark and sad and this one's dark and sad. The Matthew Perry. Actually we're getting ready to do Matthew Yes, I hate to do two back to back that are so depressing. But we both read it, we need to do it. We're thinking about doing Matthew Perry next but it's the same thing. It's sad and depressing. Yeah, so after our Matthew Perry I think we're gonna get on to maybe some more lighthearted and guys our hundredth

Episode is coming up. It's gonna be here before you know it and I wonder how many of you can guess what book we're doing for our hundredth episode and if you can guess it either Please leave a message on our Facebook page, which is in the link of our podcast or go on our Speak pot and say something there. Yes. Yeah, it's an epic epic novel and it has to be I'm not and it has to be super super big time for us to

do it for a hundred. What book could possibly be Twin Talk's 100th episode? Yes, and just think big. Think big, Major, major novel. popular. It's got to be something that fits the bill for Twin Talk. We wouldn't just do any book for our 100th no. It's got to special. How many rivers do you give this book? I'm going to give this three and a half rivers. Okay, let's just make it even across the board. I'll do three and a half rivers as well.

And that's pretty much all I have to say about the book. in peace, River. Please stay tuned for our next book. I do believe it's going to be the Matthew Perry book. So we've got more of the same coming your way. But anyway, stay tuned and we thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you next time on Twin Talk.