Accelerate the Value in your Investment, Part 1 | S02E03

Time goes by fast, however the acceptance and usage of technology can sometimes be slow.  

Just in the last 15 years, the evolution of technology has impacted every aspect of our personal and professional lives.  But.  What do you know about leaving paper behind and utilizing all digital workflows for construction?

In this episode, listen and learn how a company made the jump to modernize their mixed fleet of heavy equipment - and it's only been for the better.

To learn more about the companies who joined us on this episode, please see their websites below:
Mitchell & Stark website:  http://www.mitchellstark.com/
Dobbs Positioning Solutions: https://dobbspositioningsolutions.com/ 

To learn more about the software they discuss in this episode, please visit; https://www.topconpositioning.com/na/software-solutions/construction-management-software/sitelink3d-v2

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:11

All right. Welcome everyone to a top con talks podcast. I will be the moderator today. My name is Eric Iverson with Topcon positioning systems. Uh, with me on the phone or on the podcast today is Roger Croft with Dobbs positioning solutions and Chris Anderson with Mitchell and start construction. So to get started, uh, Roger, go ahead and introduce yourself.

Speaker 2: 0:33

Thank you, Eric. My name's Roger Croft and I'm the division manager for Dobbs positioning solutions. Uh, we're uh, uh, top con solution seller, uh, also a John Deere dealer. And, uh, I've asked one of my, uh, very, very good customers, Chris Anderson, uh, to join us on today's podcast. And, uh, Chris, if you introduce yourself

Speaker 3: 0:59

Problems, as far as thanks for having me guys. So basically, uh, name's Chris Anderson, uh, worked for Mitchell and start construction down in Southwest Florida. We're primarily as far as in the, uh, large planned community or masterplan community site developments, uh, pretty much doing everything as far as infrastructure wise from earthwork to roadways. And so, uh, starting about, I guess it's five years ago now, as far as we started jumping all the way into the machine control, uh, world, and pretty much as far as been an evolving process ever since, uh, the majority of my time, as far as, as basically stent on as far as project management, everything from getting the guys the right materials to, or the capital end side, as far as, uh, investing in new machines and trying to move more dirt as far as for as little money as possible.

Speaker 1: 1:51

Well, thank you and welcome to you both. And I really appreciate you taking the time to, uh, to do the podcast here. So with that, we'll get started. We've got several questions we want to get through. So, uh, Chris, we'll start with you, um, kind of a general question, but what was your job like 10 years ago, five years ago, and today, uh, not referring directly to COVID, but more on what your normal project workflows were like at these benchmark times, uh, what the project management and crews are doing more of now and maybe what they're doing a little less of now.

Speaker 3: 2:21

Yep, absolutely. So, uh, as far as I'm just going to run through the whole like evolutionary process. So basically I started messing around with her. I'll call it the foundation for all of this, as far as at least what I'm doing right now started with, uh, as far as back in 2005 with I'm going to call it it's the digitizer, as far as turning stuff from paper plans into electronic plans. And so, uh, way back, as far as I don't feel comfortable saying as far as the way back when, as the, uh, majority of our time, as far as it was really trying to get, as far as the plans, the information from the engineer, as far as out to the field. And as everyone could imagine, as far as dealing with, uh, paper plans and getting everybody on the same page, as far as theirs, it was a lead time as far as involved in all of that, uh, tasks as far as assigning a task, making sure everybody understood what was going on, assigning tasks ownership, as far as in forecasting, as far as overall durations or completion timeframes. Uh, there was a lot of face-to-face meeting. A lot of, I would call administrative aspects as far as dealing with, you know, communicating as far as the information from the engineer of record, as far as, or the office, as far as getting it out to the guys in the field or actually earning us money. And so there is a lot of, uh, it was basically a heavy reliance as far as on punch because of the communication channels, as far as we're, I don't want to say intermittent, but as far as difficult and providing complex information, as far as such as civil plans, do you had a very heavy reliance as far as on the actual in-field management team? So the foreman and the site foreman in many instances, as far as when they're looking at these civil plans and interpreting it into the real world, we were relying heavily as far as on their input, as far as their experience and directing as far as the field personnel where they needed to go. And so that started changing particularly, um, as far as I'll say that was probably five, six years ago, as far as at least internally technology technologically, as far as we were advancing to the point to where not only our free field personnel has had experience, as far as in dealing with the GPS equipment, as far as putting those, the prime factor in, in our office, as far as, uh, down in Southwest Florida, as far as the motivating factor was that we now had, as far as the resources available to do all the back office management that's associated with as far as implementing machine controls. So taking as far as the plans, did you already, as far as the CAD files and basically elevating the lines and producing our three-dimensional surfaces, and it's basically speeding up the, the communication timeframe of, of in providing that, uh, I don't want to say immediate feedback, but it was almost immediate feedback as far as to the field personnel on where they were, what they needed to be doing and where we wanted them to go. And the there's a couple of hurdles with that as far as because as you're changing your, uh, basically I'll call it our, our production change as far as of how we were manipulating or managing, as far as the job sites, there was obviously a evolutionary changes that not only office-wise, as far as I'll call the back office personnel needed to be able to respond to, uh, the questions from the field, more, more accurately. There was also the, uh, fields I'll call it interpretation of the plans, being able to execute as far as when they were transitioning from the typical, you know, large 24 by 36 inch sheet blueprints, as far as to, um, the I'm going to call it electronic as far as getting them based on the computer and looking at PDFs, and then ultimately as far as loading, uh, 3d MC on their computers. So they could drive around in their vehicles and basically see the same thing that an operator and a bulldozer or a motor grader or a, um, uh, excavator wouldn't be seeing on their screen. And then pretty much today, as far as it's primarily again, that, that lead time that I keep hitting on is it's compressing that timeframe from going from engineering change of plans or production of plans to infield personnel executing those, uh, new designs or new blueprints or new tasks, uh, has basically been compressed ever more. And so, as a primary example, uh, we have a fairly large job site, a little bit North as far as of a, or a little bit North of Fort Myers to where basically we have plans as far as there was a problem. The engineer basically had to adjust the location of a proposed road, and it was pretty much a 24 hour turnaround to where we were able to shift the roadway as far as several hundred feet from a, uh, identified wetland. And so that turnaround time, just as an example, as far as 15 years ago, it would probably take a couple of weeks, uh, you know, five years ago. It would probably take a day or two as far as at least, uh, depending on how quickly the engineer was able to turn stuff around. And then more recently it's basically the engineer sent me an, uh, revise, um, CAD file as far as with the adjustment, uh, alignment as far as center alignment. And so at this point, because of the early of process, we're just bulk filling. And so the team on the ground was pretty much able to continue working as far as, without having to stop as far as, and we continued excavating as far as the Lake and continued filling the, um, the, the roadway as far as the right of way. So as far as in that 15 time, 15 year timeframe, we went from something that took two to three weeks, as far as to something that could take as little as 24 or 48 hours. And so that was that's the, as far as encompassing, as far as there's a lot of different facets, as far as that you would experience or have to encounter as far as on that and making that transition as far as, but that's the global or the 50,000 foot picture as far as how things have changed as far as my end over the past several years. Sure.

Speaker 1: 8:46

So you guys have, uh, evolved with the technology. Yeah, that's great. And kind of a lead into the next question. So, uh, speak to how your team has embraced the machine control or, or maybe they didn't did not at first, especially back 15 years ago, I'm sure it was all new to them. So if you would maybe speak a little bit to, to that challenge and how they've evolved with it.

Speaker 3: 9:05

Yep. So it was the biggest, first the biggest hurdle on our end, as far as, uh, in Naples, the Naples Florida office or the Southwest Florida office was really being able to create or construct the models as far as that the, the equipment was using out in the field. And so from a back-off standpoint, which is primarily my world, that's what getting the information from the engineer and then producing as far as, uh, a usable, uh, three-dimensional surface for the machines to use was an extensive process. Originally it was using a digitizer as far as, and so I still had sheets of plans and the engineers engineer records, or the design engineers refused to release the CAD files. And so that was a lengthy and laborious process. So more recently, as far as, because again, it's somewhat of a, I guess, call it industry standard at this point, at least in our, then this market that the engineers of records have been releasing as far as the CAD files, along with the P the PDF plans under the assumption or under the rule, that if there was any discrepancy between the CAD file and the plan set of PDFs, as far as that are signed and sealed the plan, the PDF as far as rules. And so the next step, as far as basically trying to get the engineers as far as to provide or release their three-dimensional surfaces, that they are constructing or using to generate the, there, their engineer full set design plans that they're producing via PDs. And so from a back office standpoint, it's that evolution of trying to shorten or eliminate having to do any rework, as far as, uh, building the models when it comes to the field, there's always as far as some sort of basic learning curve of when you're using. And I'm just going to say, as far as a new version of software, as far as it's, you have to find out where the buttons are and so forth, but in, in general, there's relatively few of our employees had, as far as I'll call it a breadth of experience of dealing with a machine control software. And so a lot of it has been, uh, I'm going to call it learning on the go. And so there was initial training as far as trying to turn. I usually, I usually break it down into three phases, as far as you have your communication, as far as with your operators on telling them what the equipment or electronics or new equipment can do, then you have them basically familiarizing themselves with the software and figuring out where all the buttons are and forth. And then the third part is really being able to, I'm going to call it be proactive and utilizing the software to solve problems or identify issues with machine control models themselves. And that was the biggest I'll call it. The biggest hurdle was convincing them that yes, this machine control software and the three-dimensional surfaces that are emanating from the office for them to use is generally right, but there could be problems. And so I need, when they come into something that they through their experience recognize is not making sense. There is a learning curve on them having to be able to identify in the model, what they're seeing, and to be able to accurately and appropriately communicate the Def the differences they're seeing in the real world versus that three-dimensional surface. And so a lot of that, and that's what leads into as far as almost one, as far as communication, as far as verbal communication via, uh, as far as cell phones and so forth works, but it very, very much helps as far as to end up sharing their screens. And so it's just an evolutionary process of everybody. It's just like when we ended up getting new version of your iPhone, your Android software, or something like that, to where there's a progression of learning, what the software is designed to do, how you end up using, or manipulating the software, and then providing feedback on any of the issues. As far as that you're running into,

Speaker 1: 13:27

I hear all the time you take the inexperienced guy and you put this in his hands, he said he didn't want it now. He can't work without it. Right. So certainly happens a lot.

Speaker 3: 13:36

That's the other, yes. As far as that's yes, as far as that, that's another, as far as, I guess, I'll call it discrepancy, was that all of a sudden, as far as nobody can do anything without this, uh, as far as the machine control, particularly a dozer, as far as, like I said, as far as a lot of the, uh, finished grade, as far as finished grading, the end up doing is for, uh, uh, home homes or buildings or something like that, as far as, and we ended up doing ribbon fill. And of course the lament currently is that nobody can finish any lots now, as far as, without a machine controlled bulldozer on their site,

Speaker 1: 14:08

That kind of leads in again to the next question. Uh, any roadblocks you can speak of that, uh, made you guys doubt any of the technology and, and if so, how did you guys move past this? Or how could others avoid

Speaker 3: 14:18

Right, as far as, and so, um, when we first started getting involved, I'll call it when we jumped in with both feet, um, as far as an acquiring machine control, uh, equipment, as far as it was one of the, and those, when we were dealing with Roger at the time, uh, he has one of his primary comments or first comments was that it was incredibly important to basically have your I'm going to call it your manager of machine control as far as in particularly the back office. And so that was a, I'll call it a tremendous learning, as far as your, my boss always likes to say, and it's probably a cliche by now of the single throat to choke, as far as you have your one point of contact who was responsible as far as for making everything run. And so the, the, the primary for me, as far as the biggest hurdle was making sure that we were able to I'll call it, conceptualize what the engineer wanted as far as build the appropriate model for it, and then spitting it out as far as to the field as quickly as possible. And then the other, I guess, we'll call it hurdle, was making sure, and it, a lot of it comes through experience on this is electronics, as far as there's going to be failures. And so what are your typical failures? What are your typical parts that you need to have on hand? So you can have as close to a hundred percent utilization as possible on your, as far as your, your equipment that you're putting another 60,000, you know, you have a several hundred thousand dollars piece of heavy equipment, and you're putting another$60,000 on top of it. You need to make sure as far as if that's up and running as close to a hundred percent utilization as possible,

Speaker 1: 16:03

Absolutely save on the production time as well. So it kind of leading to that and, and speaking of costs, uh, the current increase in material costs as far as steel or wood and asphalt and et cetera, uh, is that affecting your projects and is the technology helping offset that any

Speaker 3: 16:19

That's what, yeah. So for there's, uh, I guess we'll call it two parts to this, as far as, um, the first part, all of the machine control equipment that we operate is used for mass. I don't want to say mass X, but as far as moving dirt around is for, and so when it comes to the substantial price increases that we've seen lately, as far as on my end, particularly on utilities, as far as plastic, as part and concrete and asphalt and so forth, a lot of that is not as impacted by the machine control. What is, as far as our, I should say, at the fringes. And so I'll call it a double-edged sword. Fortunately, at this point is really, hasn't had a material impact on how we operate as far as with earth work, because the biggest, as far as cost component that we have variability on is diesel fuel. And so from that aspect, having the machine control on the earthwork side, it is incredibly, especially when you have, as far as these large, a hundred thousand pound machines or 200,000 pound excavators, as far as running around, we would very much prefer not to have to move a cubic yard of dirt more than once. And so getting it in the place and getting it in the right place, the first time is incredibly important. Um, when it comes to the other aspects of I'm going to call it the construction material, a lot of it is, uh, predicated on, uh, your finished grade and getting your elevations correctly. As far as with the roadway, um, the I'm going to call it our base rock and asphalt, as far as not having to overbuild. Everybody has experienced as far as having to overbuild asphalt because of inappropriate elevations in the base rock or the sub grade. And those are the typical, as far as, uh, I'm going to call it cost savings, as far as that you can experience with being more accurate. Um, but at this point, as far as the I'll call it percentage of change of those has not really had an I'll call it a material impact impact as far as on our business.

Speaker 1: 18:34

Gotcha. Very good. Okay. I know part of that too, is, as you've you spoke to before is keeping the, uh, the files up to date, getting the correct files out to the guys, which obviously plays into that production in the fuel cost and everything, keeping them, keeping them moving. And like you said, not having to move it twice. I know that you guys utilize a product called sitelink, uh, that's more of a, uh, field to, to operator or field to get the stuff out and keep a communication tool and an open line of communication. Uh, speak to a little bit how you guys utilize sitelink daily and, and tell us how it's helped your operation.

Speaker 3: 19:08

Yep. No problem. So, overall, as far as there's a couple parts to it, as far as the first one is really the distribution of updated models. So originally as far, well, I shouldn't say originally, as far as without site link, as far as the I'll call it, the quickest option, as far as that we could come up with is basically emailing the new file to the supervisor or foreman. And then they would run around to the job site and provide a, or download the model and put it on a flash drive and send it out. Or I shouldn't say, send it out first, put it on a flash drive and then physically go to each machine as far as, and plug it in and load the model that way with sitelink I'm able to basically push the updated model as far as electronically to each individual machine, without interfering or stopping the, uh, superintendent or the foreman on these job sites from doing whatever it is that they're doing and basically doing or undertaking administrative tasks to make sure that everybody has the right in this case paperwork or in electronic paperwork, I'll call it. Uh, so the model alcohol distribution, as far as an updating is incredibly important because I'm sure everybody else has the same are, uh, encounters, the same circumstances where your jobs, job sites are spread out all over the place. And so me having to drive to a job site, or as far as our foreman or, uh, a site supers having to go to all the machines on a job site is incredibly time-consuming. And realistically not, not value added as far as there's another way, there's a better way. And that's where sitelink. Um, the second part is, uh, being able to interact as far as with the operator and basically having a video conference, as far as you have, of course, you can talk on the cell phone and as far as have a conversation, but it's the same thing. Y same thing that people use are the same reason why everybody ends up using, uh, Microsoft teams or, uh, was a go to meeting or something like that to where you can share the screen on sitelink. I can do the same thing. And so, yeah, it's basically adding or value or more depth as far as to the conversation that somebody like me in the office is having with the operator, or it can also be as far as what the foreman or the superintendent who is able to look at their phone as well, and interact with the operator who's on the other side of the job site, they don't have to, depending on the size of your job site, of course, as far as you don't have to spend 10, 15 minutes, as far as driving across the job site, to verify that your operator is doing what they're, what they should it'd be doing. And then the final last effect is the troubleshooting as far. And I'll call it education of the operator if they're having issues, or they're seeing something unusual model that work, uh, that I have the designer or machine the machine control model designer has created, then being able to see where exactly they are and communicate with them on what exactly they're seeing with their machine and being able to see them in real time, move, for instance, out of blow the bulldozer, as far as the blade up and down, and where there's any sort of discrepancies as far as it's very much helps me in the office, as far as go back and identify where there's any problems or from the machine operators standpoint, if there is some sort of malfunction on their machine or on the base station, or, um, some sort of electronic component there's, there's key ways that you can identify as far as typical issues that you would run into with her, a cable is frayed or there's, uh, uh, radio interference or something like that. And then, uh, the third way, as far as that we've used a sitelink is basically gathering as built information, uh, when, particularly in X large excavators or digging leaks, uh, in our, uh, Barkat V it happens okay. Regularly, as far as where we're excavating lakes that are not de-watered you're. So you're digging under water, and there are requests from information from either management or, uh, the owner of the property owner, or the engineer of record on how deep they're actually able to dig. What's, you know, prime example as far, several weeks ago, as far as it was fairly near a facility, or I shouldn't say facility a, um, site development and near the Gulf of Mexico because of, uh, South Florida water management is prohibiting, uh, de-watering of lakes or digging in the wet. We needed to know what the actual, uh, elevation absolute elevation of the local limestone strata was. And so I was able to have, at the beginning of the day, the operator started taking, uh, topographical shots, uh, at the, when he was running into resistance while digging the Lake. And he, as far as it was on automatic, you kept working for normal. And throughout the day, I was able to, when I was, uh, receiving requests from the owner, I was able to log in as far as in download the latest point file and basically provide updates. I want to say in real time, but within a couple minutes of where the operator was actually, uh, excavating in that, like, so the feedback, as far as the, the ability to generate feedback practically in real time was also in many instances over the past several years, as far as tremendously beneficial.

Speaker 1: 25:03

Very good. So it's a, it's a true, uh, office to, uh, to field communication and, uh, keeps everybody connected and, and essentially real time that's, that's, uh, that's what it's made for us. That's very impressive.

Speaker 2: 25:14

Eric, one thing to add to that, uh, as well as a safety factor, because, uh, in, without using something like the oughta auto excavator and being able to get that Topo information, uh, from the excavator itself, you would have to send a diver down there to get that information. So there there's, you know, either that, or, you know, some type of survey with a poll or something, depending on how deep it is. So you'd have a boat involved, an echo sounder, or a diver, uh, involved in it. And this takes a lot of that risk away.

Speaker 1: 25:51

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you, Roger. Uh, and, and Chris define it's, it's helpful on a smaller project scale, or do you just, you guys mainly focus on the larger projects, are there different sizes, a little bit everything

Speaker 3: 26:04

That's right. Yeah. So the primary, our primary, uh, project size is pretty large as far as, you know, at least several hundred acres as far as, but when it comes to the smaller projects, particularly I'm going to call it where there's just one or two relatively small lakes, as far as, you know, a hundred thousand yards of X or excavation, or so there, it's very easy to have, particularly when you just have a bulldozer, an excavator, as far as in a couple of trucks operating, there's not necessarily a need on our end for a foreman to constantly be on site, but through the electronic, as far as our through link a foreman, who's on another job site, whether it's across the street or across the town or across the state of Florida, as far as is able to actively monitor, as far as what's taking place on that job site, by looking at this is basically exactly what the operator is looking at on these GX 55 are, um, we end up having GX 50 fives as far as the display in the dozer itself. And so there's, I'll call it from a management aspect as far as it enables the foreman and, or the super as far as to be in multiple places at the same time. And so when it comes to a multiple jobs site that wouldn't necessarily warrant traditionally having a foreman and a super onsite, as far as this is a, I'm going to call it a management tool to where you can actually start allocating as far as your foreman to multiple smaller job sites.

Speaker 1: 27:38

Yeah. So it's definitely in today's world. Communication is, is available, and it sounds like you guys are utilizing it in many ways. So, uh, Roger question for you kind of on the, on the same site link topic from the technology provider standpoint, how do you guys benefit from a site Lincoln and what does it bring to your side of this?

Speaker 2: 27:56

Well, you know, we're always looking at ways to add value to the, uh, investment that the, uh, that the contractors making top contact Knology, and, and this is just another way of adding value. Uh, we're able to do, you know, use site link in a multitude of ways to be able to, uh, you know, have rapid response so we can log in remotely and, uh, access the user's control box. And, you know, it, it seems like, and I'd be interested to get the percentage from, from, uh, from somebody like Chris, but we find about 80 to 85% of the problems that we run into with machine control have where somebody has manipulated something in the control box, and either didn't know they do it, did it, or, you know, w whatever the circumstance, just being able to get into that control box and recognize something that's been changed, or maybe possibly, uh, if somebody like Chris at Mitchell and start wants us to, when we're servicing one of their units, we can actually lock them out of menus, uh, use, you know, the supervisor mode be able to lock, uh, a menu out that might frequently get changed. Uh, but importantly for us, uh, we're able to do that without the expense of a, uh, of a service call to the job site, uh, for the end user. So that that's a huge, huge advantage. Um, also being able to remotely upgrade their, uh, machine control software GPS, firmware, you know, to keep their investment running at peak performance. So, you know, that's something that we can do remotely and don't have to physically go out to the job site to do. And then, uh, you know, we've seen so much value in it from our standpoint. It also allows us to maximize our personnel to be able to do, you know, installs and things like that, where they actually have to physically be there. Uh, being able to remotely support things, uh, is so important to us that we install site link 3d on every single machine that Dobbs equipment sells. So if it gets the top count system, it gets sitelink 3d. We think it's that important.

Speaker 1: 30:06

Very good. So it's a, it's a value add on, on both ends. It sounds like, and that is very important obviously to, to the customer as well as yourself. So

Speaker 3: 30:14

That's what, and I would like to chime in on that as far as that was, there have been many instances, as far as in which I'm stumped as far as on a machine operators, as far as calls me and says, it tells me, as far as there's, something's, something's wrong or something's amiss as far as they can't figure it out, what's going on. And then when I get stumped, as far as I can call, as far as basically our service tech, and then they can log on as far as, so I have a service tech myself and the operator, and while we're all looking at the same screen. And so generally, as far as the service tech is able to, Oh, well, this, as far as particular, uh, reading indicates that there's this problem. And so this is what you should do, and basically solves the problem. And so not only is the operator it's, it's, it's basically training as far as from the get-go when everybody's now based. We basically just turned that as far as this particular instance into a teaching moment, as far as, not only for myself and in the office, as far as, and the operator out in the field, and that has been there have been multiple occasions as far as where that's happened as well.

Speaker 1: 31:22

Very interesting to hear the benefits that these professionals are seeing of this technology. Thank you for listening to this first of our two part discussion, please join us on the next episode where we finish off with Roger and Chris catch you next time.