MarsBased podcast - Life on Mars
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MarsBased podcast - Life on Mars
The CEO who made herself “irrelevant” (and scaled to millions ARR) / Laura Urquizu
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What does it really take to scale a SaaS from a tiny Barcelona startup to a global leader protecting brands like major clubs and top electronics companies? In this candid conversation, Laura Urquizu (CEO, Red Points) shares hard-won lessons on going from SMB to enterprise, hiring fast in NYC (and fixing the fallout), balancing long-term strategy with short-term execution, and why the best CEOs become “irrelevant” day-to-day as teams outperform.
We dive into go-to-market, NRR as the north star, fundraising mistakes after a big round, building in the U.S. from Europe, and the AI behind Red Points (95% automated detection, 30M checks/day). If you’re a founder, operator, or investor, this one’s a masterclass in scaling under permanent uncertainty.
🎬 You can watch the video of this episode on the Life on Mars podcast website: https://podcast.marsbased.com/
Startup Barcelona Introduction
Speaker 1The best way to know that you are a good CEO is when your company is doing great and you are irrelevant on a daily basis .
Speaker 2So we'll do an M&A and VC special because it's a very uncertain moment . It has been for the last I don't know 36 months , but I guess it's still a pretty hot topic , and so we're going to invite some of the experts in town and maybe from outside of town for this event . Then in February , our customary event at the MWC four years from now . Then we got either in March or April or 10 years anniversary . It's going to be pretty fucking big . So don't miss out on that one . And that's it , Without further ado . I'm going to be introducing our speaker for tonight . This is the moment where you get nervous . You don't get nervous at all .
Speaker 1Not anymore .
Speaker 2All right , all right , I'm going to change my presentation . All right , Okay , work the first time . We don't pay our speakers . They pay us with their time , Time of founders . We see C-level . She's pretty , pretty extensive , so we will pay her . We'll pay Laura , Extending up and giving her the biggest rock startup loss . If I were to teach such a time of three , I want each one of you to take on your fate and give the deepest rock startup loss One G three On your feet . Everybody Eat it out , All loud out to you .
Speaker 1Wow , now I'm nervous .
Speaker 2I need to stop the music because of the copyright violation on YouTube . I'd like to have the conversation going with some rock music in the background , because I know you like some rock music , so welcome .
Speaker 1And how many times have you been welcomed on stage as a rock star ? Well , I think this is the first time as a rock star . Is the first time and you know we share our love for , well , some rock groups , like what is the name of this one , Rammstein .
Speaker 2They're canceled . Now Don't talk about Rammstein , they're canceled .
Speaker 1I love Rammstein . As a matter of fact , Rammstein is a client of Redpoints
RedPoints Journey and Early History
Speaker 1. They are a client of us .
Speaker 2Tell us more , tell me more .
Speaker 1They protect their trademark and their logos and the t-shirts they do .
Speaker 2I didn't know how did you get Rammstein as a client . Can you tell us the story ?
Speaker 1Well , they've been a client of us for many years and now , I think , about six years , so I guess you know well . First , maybe should I explain what we do . Maybe because online fraud that is related to counterfeiting , fake items , illegal content , fake websites and digital impersonation , which is especially , you know , fake , fake Twitter or fake profiles in Facebook , instagram and any social network profiles in Facebook , instagram and any social network , right , and we are broadening it because we are also now able to detect also fake ads , for instance . So this is something that really hurts a lot any kind of company and any brand , and at the end , rammstein , which are an amazing rock group . They are like a company . They are a business . They are very , very conscious of their value and they came to us . They wanted to protect themselves online and they were the ones coming to us asking for a protection . It was an inbound coming to us asking for our protection .
Speaker 2It was an inbound . It's funny because , I mean , I wasn't going to go into this , but because I know the love of Ramstein that we share . And it's funny when you get a client that you don't expect them to be a company , right . It's when I read about Metallica they employ at least 3,000 people as a brand . Acdc , you know , the biggest brand , taylor Swift , famously , has made this really huge world tour , which it has been like a game-changing event for the industry , right . But it's really funny when you're like , oh , how the fuck did Ramstein contact me ? You know , but how did they find you ? Do you remember it was either like out on sales or it was just they Googled fraud protection online ? Do you track where clients come from ?
Speaker 1Yeah . So let me tell you something Since the very beginning . I mean , it's been a journey of nine years already and next year it will be our 10th year now since I joined my partners and we really started big with Red Points , or at least a journey . We were . At the beginning we were 10 people , now we are 300 people . We were born in Barcelona and now we have offices in New York , salt Lake City , united States .
Speaker 1But , going to your question , since the very , very , very beginning we knew that Spain , for us , was nothing . We really wanted to go question since the very , very , very beginning , we knew that Spain for us was nothing . We really wanted to go global . No , so this is why , since the very beginning , in our case , we knew we needed to grow and we went for business financing right , and yes , I mean , there's amazing business that they are bootstrapping . In our case it was necessary to find the financing . So this is why to grow globally , to be able to show what we do globally . So , since the very beginning , our go-to market was international , so we built a team . Our go-to market was international , so we built a team . We built
Global Strategy and Business Financing
Speaker 1a team of outbound that was reaching the companies all over the world , no matter where those companies were . But also we dedicated a good amount of money to inbound , to web content , webinars , direct targeting , I mean inbound marketing . A big part of our financing went to marketing .
Speaker 2Don't quote me on that . Oh yeah , quote me on that Because I think there's been like some interesting stories about Redpoint . When you mentioned that you were 300 people , I assume most of them were co-founders , because it's funny how it's famous , how Redpoint has had so many co-founders and on LinkedIn there are so many . We'll not go into that .
Speaker 2But the thing is when you start selling kind of like when you professionalize the company a little bit and I know you have been spearheading sales for many years , as have I in my company , so we can compare the models but the thing is at the very first , when you try to sell to big brands , like it's your case , you lack the credentials , right . Your company is too early , it's too young , you don't have enough revenue capacity , you are not able to make the requirements for procurement processes . Say , you want to work for HP , they require that your company at least be five years old , have at least a million in recurring revenue , things like that , right . So as a startup , how the fuck do you do that if you normally don't have five years time ? Right , I know VC money can extend your runway , but how do you get yourself in all of these procurement processes ? How do you sell to big brands without credentials , without having a lot of time ? What are your tricks here ?
Speaker 1Let me tell you something .
Speaker 1I'm not the person , the right person to ask this question . I'm going to tell you why . So I mean , you know , redpoints is one of the fastest growing companies in Spain . It's been no , and it's still now one of the largest tech companies in Europe , I would say , and , of course , in Spain .
Speaker 1But when we started , we were very small and we thought to address the problem that we were addressing with technology , only with technology , of course , with some services , but with technology . So we started building our platform . What happened is that when you say , okay , I'm going to start targeting clients , and then we learned that the largest clients in the world are the largest companies in the world . They were already being served by other people , people that they were . They didn't have technology , but they were doing it with services . So then we say , okay , wait , we want to be a global company , but we are not ready to serve the largest companies of the world . Let's start with the smallest companies of the world . So what we did and it was the best decision that we could , it was one of the decisions that explains the success of WorkPoints that it was to address and to go to target the small brands of the world , at the beginning , as we were learning and building our platform . So , as we were building our platform , we were serving smaller clients . And as we were stronger and stronger and our platform was better and better and more sophisticated , then we were serving larger clients . And better and more sophisticated , then we were serving larger clients .
Speaker 1So for many years we were targeting SMBs and this is how we grew 300% every year , then 200% , and it was only two years ago . And remember I told you that we started our journey nine years ago . So two years ago it was when we really started targeting big companies , large companies . Now we have the I mean some of the best names of the world as clients of Redpoint . Some of them they let us tell who they are , some they don't . But well , you know the I don't know . The largest electronic company of the world , well , there are clients . The largest entertainment company of the world , there are clients . Real Madrid , there are clients . They let us say that .
Speaker 2FC Barcelona . Don't let you say , they are your clients . I know that .
Speaker 1We have a lot of football clubs , right , but what I want to say is that at the beginning we were no one . No one knew us . So we started with the smaller companies and once we were very well known , it was easier , of course . Then you have the credentials . And now let me tell you some of the larger companies of the world . They are the ones who come to us For the first time . That has happened this year several times .
Speaker 2Because you have similar companies they can benchmark themselves against . Or like oh , you've been helping , I don't know , Real Madrid , probably some other football club , so Manchester City comes to you . So , oh , I see that you've got A , B and C . I assume I can be a client of yours . So is that how it works now ?
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean . Well , the thing is the following so for many years , we were addressing a problem that many people didn't see as a problem , not many companies or many brands . Now , well , now and it's because the problem of online fraud is doing nothing but growing like crazy Many companies and brands they they are for the first time , they are prioritizing this kind of uh
Selling to Brands Without Credentials
Speaker 1of a problem in their companies . So now they are allocating budget , because some years ago not many of them , they were allocating budgets . Many companies , they didn't , even if they didn't even know that they had this problem . No , it was when we were calling them . It's like have you seen what you have online ? Have you seen all the fake products that you have in the internet , in Amazon or Facebook or AliExpress ? No , and they realized when we were calling them .
Speaker 1Now most of the companies and brands are aware this has changed dramatically . So some companies that before they were not looking for someone . Now they are . And they scan the market . They see , okay , who is providing services for this ? Who is providing a software for this , a solution ? And we are there and by now we are well known to be the best ones with technology in this segment , not in this market and they call us .
Speaker 2Since we had a preparation call the other day and we agreed that we wouldn't be talking too much about RappPoints early days , because there's plenty of podcasts about you on the internet . So if you're interested in the first seven years of RappPoints early days , because there's plenty of podcasts about you on the internet , so if you're interested in the first seven years of RepPoints , there's the podcast of Vipnik , the podcast of Kayfan and whatnot . We're going to be focusing on the last three years because it's something that she hasn't discussed publicly . And one of the things is how do you scale yourself to be the CEO in uncertain times ? And when you went from you know you mentioned they were 10 people when you joined the company and now I don't know how many people you are , but you're ready . You will take the company to an IPO . I know it for sure . There are CEOs for each stage . Sometimes some CEOs can go from stage one to stage 10 , right ? So how are you facing this entrepreneurial voyage of leading a company as a CEO in different stages ?
Speaker 1I would say that that is one of the most difficult things to do . Very difficult , because at the beginning you have to do everything . When you're 10 people , you do everything . You do your own stuff , you sell , you help to define the product , you help the finance people if there's a finance people , no . So you do everything .
Speaker 1And now that we are 300 , and of course we will be a thousand then you will become more and more irrelevant . You know on a daily basis , and that's good , that's very , very , very good , because you're supposed to have people the best people that are managing the sales and the product and the technology and customer success , and if you don't , then you're not doing the right thing , right . So the best way to know that you are a good CEO is when your company is doing great and you are irrelevant on a daily basis , and that that for a founder CEO that was at the very beginning , it is the hardest thing to do because it's very difficult to accept and also because you tend to , you know , to go and say oh , let me show , no , no . So it's so difficult to rely , to trust the people and not to make the decisions for them . You have to let them and it's like OK , it's your call , you know what to do .
Speaker 1I gave you my trust , you go and do it . So how do you do this ? You go and do it . So how do you do this ? Well , just first acknowledging it , then finding the best people you can have with you and then focusing on what you have to people . And when you are selling I don't know dozens of millions of ARR , like it is our case , then it's more about strategy , about institutions , about your shareholders , if you have them , about big clients , about all this kind of stuff .
Speaker 2What is , I mean , my framework for scaling myself as CEO ? And you know there's a huge gap between your company size and mine . But my framework for scaling myself is I try to find somebody that by hiring this person I will bring more revenue into the company . I'm a sales-oriented CEO and I used to edit the podcast , for instance , which is pretty stupid . But as a bootstrap company , well , you do it . But then I realized , okay , if I hire somebody to do that seems like it's a loss for the company , but I can spend more time in sales and I increased my sales percentage , the income I brought into the company . Right , or I'm hiring a marketing person now . So this is my framework of scaling myself . What have you used ? Delegate , outsource , automate , eliminate . How do you do it ? What's your rule of thumb ?
Speaker 1Well , the thing is , as a CEO , you have to think always about the ROI that your decision brings to the company , and the ROI , not all the time , is a number . It's like when you bring a person , is the revenue going to increase , which is what you said , or it is the , let's say , you know , the well-being of the people is going to increase , or is the churn going to decrease ? Or our reputation ? Or is this person helping us to open Asia , if we want to open Asia ? No , it's always . That is the thing that you always have to think .
Speaker 1And another thing that I use a lot of my time , a lot is aligning the people . You have to align the people is aligning the people . You have to align the people . At the end , I usually say I say this quite often that a CEO is like a conductor in an orchestra , right , and you have to make sure
Scaling as a CEO in Different Stages
Speaker 1that everybody is playing the music . That is a melody , because at the end you can have someone doing the violin , someone doing the piano , someone . Well , it has to sound like a melody , because if you just have people playing the instruments and playing music but it's not online , that is a total disaster . So , for me , being a CEO is the most similar to being the conductor of an orchestra .
Speaker 2Okay . Well , that's from you to the rest of the team . How about to yourself ?
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Like I suffered imposter syndrome two years ago . Right , what other things ? So how have you avoided feeling , oh , this project is too big for me . I was good enough for stage one , but not stage two . How do you mentally prepare for all of this ?
Speaker 1You're lucky if you only felt it until two years ago , because I think that every CEO that scales feels the imposter syndrome almost every day , on an everyday basis , because it's normal .
Speaker 2Because you hire every day . You hire three people a year , but sorry , go on .
Speaker 1No , but listen , this is something that you know . To have a good network is also very important , a network of other CEOs , or you know , if you're not a CEO , if you're a CFO or you're a CTO , to talk to other CTOs , other CFOs , because it helps a lot . I do have this network , and a big one , and this is something we talk a lot usually . You know , everybody does , and if someone says he does , he or she doesn't know , that person is lying . He or she doesn't know that person is lying because at the end , you started , when , when the company was very small , and you learned , uh , you learned through the , the journey , no , and everybody makes so many mistakes . I've made so many mistakes and you learn by doing . And , of course , now , if you come prepared no to this , uh , to to the , to the company , or you have some experience to fund or to build your company , you have an advantage . But even if that happens , believe me , you're going to make so many mistakes and you're going to learn by doing .
Speaker 1Listen , as I said , now , at Redpoint , our revenue is dozens of millions of ARR . I'm going to be the good CEO until we are 100 or 500 or 1,000 , or maybe when we are , I don't know , 70 millions ? No , I have no idea . But believe me , believe me , that is something that I want to experience , that I want to learn . And some days you think , oh my God , what am I doing ? No , what am I doing here ? And I am supposed to be a rockstar CEO . So if I'm supposed to , this is what people say no . So if I'm that , and I feel that way , everybody does- you are a rock star , don't doubt it .
Speaker 2So , but how about ? You're also an angel investor , and we have discussed this . I'm also investing myself is how do you perceive people ? How do you analyze the founders that you might potentially invest in according to whether ? Do you think they're going to be the right people to take the company from zero to one , of course , but from one to 100 ? Because probably you can do that . You can take the company from 10 people to an IPO , but you're a rat at Avis . Usually , people are like you know , I could take the company to 20 people , to 50 people , maybe to a series A , but then they fuck off and they replace themselves with somebody else . How do you scrutinize this ? I'm curious .
Speaker 1What a question .
Speaker 2It's only good questions here .
Speaker 1What a question , alex . Well , first , when you're an investor , you see the stage , a very , very early stage . The only thing that matters is people . It's not only people , it's the person that you have in front of the company . That is the key person . And if that person is going to be able to build the team , and not only that , if that person is resilient For me , the most important thing is if it is resilient , Because everybody that has done a journey of at least two years , three years or if it is 10 years , you can imagine .
Speaker 1This is a total roller coaster . It's always up down , up down . Some days in the morning is wonderful and in the evening is a total disaster . Right and same day , you have the best news and the worst news . So the only thing that you have to make sure is that the person is resilient , consistent , is going to continue no matter what . And well , of course , if this person is like that , then you have to trust this person and see where it gets . And , at the same time , it's important to know if that person is a good person , because if that person is a good person , good , resilient person , that person is going to realize when maybe the project is too big for him , her no , and then say , well , I got to bring someone else here now to help me . So that is usually good people who are able to see that . So those are the two for me , two key factors , and that's interesting because it brings me to a realization that I two for me two key factors .
Speaker 2That's interesting because it brings me to a realization that I had , you know . So I've been investing only for seven years now , so I haven't invested through the previous downturns , but I'm coming to the realization that good entrepreneurs are those who grow companies in good times , but they grow them even bigger in bad times , Right . And so now I have got more of a historical perspective . But my question is kind of like circling back to scaling yourself on how did you deal with the last three years ? We had , you know , COVID , the crisis in Russia , the crisis in Israel , the tech downfall , the logistics chaos two years ago because of that blockage . So how did you make it to navigate all of these difficult circumstances as a CEO ? How did you step up and say , look , we're going to do this , we're going to operate in shorter terms or we're going to build a crisis team in the company ? What three , four key things did you do during these last three years ?
Speaker 1Okay , these last three years have . Okay , these last three years have been something totally extraordinary . I think no one has faced any time , three years like this . But what I think is that this extraordinary now has become the ordinary , because , if you think about it , like , every quarter something happens . Something happens .
Speaker 1I was discussing with you earlier today that you know it's the last quarter of 22 . For us it was such an amazing quarter . So we started January so confident . No , and it was like , wow , january 23 . Well , this is well . I say , okay , okay , I made it . Now I am the person that you know , everybody is doing everything in the company . I'm enjoying the ride .
Speaker 1Then , january , the clients disappeared . It was like , well , where are the clients ? Well , january , you know , january Christmas , and then February was the same and it ended up being a terrible first quarter this year . So what happened ? So everybody was like , what is this ? So in one quarter the circumstances changed dramatically . Right , so we have to get used to this extraordinary that now things change every quarter . So we can't do like we used to do yearly budgets now . Well , of course you can do a yearly budget , we do a yearly budget , but that budget you have to review it on a monthly basis , not even quarterly , a monthly basis because you
Navigating the Extraordinary Times
Speaker 1have to watch very closely what is happening in the market . So what I've done is this following very closely what is happening in the market , happening with the clients , happening with technology , where the world has changed .
Speaker 1In January , you know , all this generative AI wave started and now look where we are . So what's going to happen in 24 ? We don't know yet , but something's going to happen for sure . So you have to trust very much the people . You have your executive committee , and if you're not happy with your executive committee , then you have to change your executive committee the fastest that you can . And you have to trust them very much because they are in the journey with you . No , and you have to be very realistic and you have to know you have to learn to play in the short term and in the long term , because the problem in this kind of times is that if you focus very much in the short term , you are making a mistake , because your company needs that . You , as a CEO , you focus in the long term too . So you have to have good people that they are very focused in the short term so you don't lose yourself thinking about what's happening today .
Speaker 2Okay , similar to you , we also experienced this . We also experienced that . You know , last quarter of last year was incredible and we set the goals for this year on March based , and today I was reviewing the goals for the year with my two co-founders . It's like they don't make sense . They didn't make sense six months ago , you know . So for next year , no yearly goals , only quarterly or maybe monthly goals . I don't know yearly goals , only quarterly or maybe monthly goals , I don't know . So I'm thinking maybe you know it's a really good point . I I had an epiphany right now is maybe ceo has to have some way like somewhat the head in the clouds to see the longer vision . Strategy needs to be long term , but operations needs to be short , short term . Right , so your company is bigger and therefore you can split all these areas of the company into more people . So what areas help you to think long term and which ones focus on the short term ? How have you split this in the company ?
Speaker 1I will say all of them have to have a long-term and short-term , because , at the end , even the financial goals , even the financial teams , have to have long-term goals , otherwise they won't execute well on the short term Revenues . They have to have the goal of the year , especially the leaders , right ? I mean , you're right that my company now is bigger , so there are different layers , right ? So the salespeople let's put it that way the account executives and the SDRs , those are the ones who have to focus in the short term because they have monthly goals short term , because they have monthly goals . No , so that . But the VPs in the sales and , of course , the CRO , no , they have to be be in the short but also in the long term . It's a very , it's very important . It's very important that , um , that the CRO , the chief revenue officer , and the VPs , they think in the long term .
Speaker 1And let me tell you why Because when you're very small , when you're very small , growth is the most important thing , so you sell everything to everybody and you don't care about anything else .
Speaker 1Then , as you grow , and especially if you are a SaaS company , like we are a software company , then the quality of the sale is very important . It's so important ? Why ? Because otherwise , if the client wasn't the right fit , it's going to churn . So you're going to end up having a churn that is going to be as big or even bigger than your new sales , and if that happened to you you're totally screwed up . Then that is a problem . So you have to sell good and I know it's very difficult for salespeople when you have the opportunity to close a deal and someone tells you well , this is not the right deal because we can't deliver what this client expects . Not to close it is so difficult but at the end it's the best thing for the company in the long term . So even the revenue people they have to think long term , not the account executives , but the medium and the large and , of course , product and technology . I will say those are long term .
Speaker 2And how about communication and transparency ? Because in the last three years , a lot of companies had to do massive layoffs . There were the EREs and ERTOs and whatnot . Some companies were not able to raise funds or they had to go for flat rounds , bridge rounds , extension rounds whatever euphemism you might want to use or even down rounds . Right , there's a very thin line that you have to calibrate of whether you should say things too early or too late . Right , if you say too early , you might cause alarm in your company . You tell them , you alert them about something that might not happen Look , we might have to lay 10% of the people off so they can prepare themselves . Or you tell them too late . As a CEO , it's pretty fucking difficult to do that . How did you do it ? What was your way of thinking ?
Speaker 1That is also one of the most difficult things , because , at the end , not is prepared to know everything in a company , right so , but at the same time , at the same time , I think that transparency and bluntness is the best thing , no Boredness , and to tell the people what's going on . So I guess that there's also different levels of information . Right , because in the good times and in the bad times , because even in the good times , if you say that things are too good , that may lead people to conclusions that you don't want them to be at , those conclusions , right ?
Speaker 2So , in our case it's like can you give an example ?
Speaker 1Yeah Well , um , for instance , for instance , um let me give you an example , metrics Now in the , in the , in in the , in the , at our stage metrics are very important .
Speaker 1No , uh , stage metrics are very important , no , and so not everybody knows the metrics by heart . Not everybody knows what a positive I mean an nrr over a hundred percent is right . So if you um or not , not everybody and knows the difference between how , what is the , the , the level that nRR has to be in enterprise or what it has to be in SMBs , because in enterprise it has to be over 100% for sure , or even over 110% in the case of SMBs . Over 85% is pretty good in the case of SMBs . So , depending on how you want to play those metrics and how important is the weight that you give to enterprise in a company or to SMBs in
Managing VC Funding Challenges
Speaker 1a company , if you don't explain properly , you may lead to the wrong conclusion and people may not understand it . Well , people from product or from technology that they forget , forget , not this kind of things . So I think that sometimes you , if you give too much information , you may lead to , to , to , to , let's say , to confusion .
Speaker 2Yeah I I thought I thought you were gonna refer to when you raised the round . Yeah , last big round and , um , I think I shared something controversial on Twitter and pretty well known for my stupid , blunt opinions , but I shared that bootstrap companies . We tend to be more conservative and more sensible about our money because it's our money , right , and every penny we spend , and sometimes we're overly cautious and we are not ambitious just because we're afraid of losing that money because it's ours . But I also said that VC-backed companies they tend to be less cautious and they squander much more money and a lot of people jump to my throat saying , oh , it's not like that , it's the other way around . So what's your take on this and what have you learned from the latest round that you've raised ?
Speaker 1take on this and what have you learned from the latest round that you raised ? Well , listen , that is also a good example . No , it's like uh , sometimes people , people , when I call , in some occasions , companies are not ready for the amount of money that comes to the company . And let me tell you something In 2019 , we raised around 38 million euros Dollars sorry , because the dollar and the euro , they were very different and we did it in dollars 38 million dollars and that was , yeah , in that occasion . It was four years ago , and the company was not ready for that amount of money . And the company was not ready for that amount of money . I would say we were not mature enough and senior enough to understand how we had to invest that money . So we made so many mistakes , so many mistakes .
Speaker 1And , for instance , now we have this many millions for marketing , this many millions to build the team , so we started building the fastest , the better go-to marketing SDRs in New York . We had so much money , we were hiring SDRs . You know what . Everybody knows what an SDR is , because , I mean , sdr is a role in the sales area . It's usual in the SaaS companies , no , that they are the ones that they have to reach to a buyer person in a company and to set up a meeting . This is what an SDR I mean . They do more things , but , in a short way to say it , this is what they do . So we started hiring people like crazy in New York . Sdrs like we hire , I think , like 20 SDRs in a month .
Speaker 1You can imagine that when you hire this fast and especially in New York , well , you don't hire all good people , you hire a lot of bad people . No good people , no good people , no good professionals , let's say with experience . Let's say good people , they were probably good people , but listen , so what happens ? There is like then you have a team that is too big , unexperienced , the leader was not prepared for that . Then you have to start letting go of the people , firing the people , and then you have a problem because the culture and the environment , everything gets like really toxic , really bad . So that happened to us when we had an extraordinary amount of money . We were growing like crazy and we were making so many mistakes so many times . This kind of stuff isn't necessarily the best thing that can happen to you . Then we learned and we got much better at managing a very large amount of money because of the mistakes , because , as I said , you learn by doing mistakes and we made a lot of mistakes .
Speaker 2It's funny you mentioned that , because when I , you know , I interview a lot of people event number 143 , but I might have to be over a thousand people over the years and pretty much every single of them they're like I have the best team . So either everybody's lying or I have a wrong conception of the word best and it means something different , right ? So what do you do when you realize that you haven't ? You're really lying to yourself . You're not hiring the best people Because , as you mentioned , like , everybody's hiring the best , but lots of companies have got more money , or they were before you , or they have more recognition because they are from this and you are from Barcelona , which from the US .
Speaker 2You're changing that , but Barcelona wasn't perceived as quality software up until now . Maybe You're one of the first companies selling technology from Barcelona , right ? But up until now the US wouldS , would buy to the US Everything that was not the US . It was offshoring , low quality , low cost and whatnot , right ? What do you do when you realize that you've hired a lot of people that were not the right fit for your team , because that happens a lot in high gross companies .
Speaker 1Okay , alex , let me tell you something . So we are this company from Barcelona that 65% of our revenues come from US . Right , we've been really , really successfully in US and , according to what some investors tell me , in Europe and M&A companies and investment banks , this is quite extraordinary A company from Barcelona that hasn't moved to the United States , that is selling this amount of money to clients in the US . So we can say that we've been quite successful . So people ask me how have you been so successful in US ? And the answer and this is where I'm answering your question is because I've been always so , so realistic . What does that mean ? So I knew that when we went to US , I decided to go to US in 2018 . Decided to go to US in 2018 . So in 2018 , from Barcelona , we already sold to around 35 , 40 clients in US . 35 , 40 companies in US , no . So we said , well , if we are doing this from Barcelona , there is a clear market fit , let's go to US . So where do we go to US ?
Speaker 1Well , we chose New York for two reasons Because I was the one who had to go all the time and say , well , barcelona , new York , is so much better than Barcelona , san Francisco , and in our case , we didn't need to be in Silicon Valley like other companies . So , for my own health , I decided New York . And second , because we wanted to build a sales team , and everybody knows that no one sells like people from New York . They go with a knife in their mouth , eh God . So this is why I chose New York . So I knew when I was going to New York that we were nothing . So probably the people that we will get will be the worst of the worst of the worst , because the good people they were going to work for American companies , for American startups , who knew these red points , coming from Barcelona , what is that ? So I knew that our first hires they were not probably the good ones . So I knew that we had to be very fast at calibrating these people and replacing the ones that they were not good .
Speaker 1And let me tell you something One of the first hires in the US is a person that is still with us . I love this guy . He's now managing a good amount of people in the office in New York and he started with us as SDR , but it was one . So I hired four and one , stayed three out , then another four and well , this is how I did it . This is how we built a good team , a good initial team , by knowing that we had C performers and some B performers that could be A performers , and then replacing the C by B , being very , very realistic , knowing that we were no one over there . Because if you go there and you say , oh yeah , you know , I have one guy , that is the best guy , that is it , well , you're not telling to you the truth . I mean , you're lying to yourself .
Speaker 2I'm liking this really sick . No bullshit approach . So my next question is going to be piling up on that right . In the entrepreneurial world , there are a lot of myths and some half-truths , like you know , fail fast , fail often , go big or go home . That might work for some people , but they don't work for everybody , and if you assume them blindly which a lot of entrepreneurs do , then you end up going the same path that everybody else has taken , but you cannot go somewhere else new right . So which is the biggest piece of bullshit that you have encountered in your entrepreneurial career ? That you're like okay , this is a myth , this doesn't work for me , but it might work for somebody else .
Speaker 1What a question , alex , because you know that I'm not a bullshitter , that's why you're here .
Confronting Competitors and AI Technology
Speaker 1But I hate bullshit and I fight bullshit . Well , let me tell you something . When you the worst is , like you know , when you find an entrepreneur that you know in an event like this , and oh , how things are going , wow , wonderful , wonderful , wonderful , everything is wonderful , so I'm doing great , amazing with then you're like , oh well , I am the only one like having I don't know issues on a daily basis , and so for me , that is the worst . That is the worst . That is the worst .
Speaker 1The need to say continuously that everything is great and it looks like in our environment . There is this need of saying , oh , everything is awesome , everything is amazing . If you're in Europe , everything is great . If you are in New York , everything is amazing , and you are in San Francisco , everything is awesome . That is the and it's the same , great , amazing , awesome . So why do we have this need ? And of course , I mean it's not about telling this guy oh , let me tell you all of this , but you can be more honest and say , well , yeah , you know , yeah , we're doing , I mean struggling this , that . So I hated this need of saying that everything is wonderful , wonderland . Sometimes our ecosystem is wonderland or Disneyland .
Speaker 2It's funny because I always say that startup events are kind of like Instagram for startups , right , because everybody's like oh , life is wonderful , my company is fantastic . Then , six months down the line , they close shop because they run out of money right , but it was fantastic . And Then , six months down the line , they closed shop because they ran out of money right , but it was fantastic and wonderful six months ago . So my next question is and we have to wrap it up with a couple of quick questions but is what are you struggling with right now ?
Speaker 1That's a good question . Okay , I think we've changed quite a good number of things , so at the moment we are good . But let me tell you , for us , a company of our size that is already quite big and that we are bringing a lot of new clients every every month , the biggest thing to look at is churn the clients that they don't stay with us right . So , for a SaaS company , that is something that you have to always look at and , as I say , I would say that now we are in a good position , but it wasn't like that , let's say , one year ago . It's like when I say , okay , we need healthy metrics , all the metrics have to be the good ones For the size that we are .
Speaker 1It's not only about growth anymore , it's other metrics . I mentioned it already three times , but this is very important when you grow . So , when you grow , one of the metrics that is key is NRR . Nrr over 100% right , I say no , in large companies , 110 average or mid-market over 100 and smaller maybe like over 8,500 , is good enough for SMBs . But those are key , key metrics for any healthy SaaS . So those are the ones that we are looking a lot and I wouldn't call it a struggle , but it's something that we sweat to improve it every month .
Speaker 2Because it's hard to learn . But sometimes you know , focusing too much on a KPI might make sense for a certain period of the company career , like for us . For us , for instance , last year , we said we will not grow in revenue anymore because bringing in more revenue is bad for the company . We'll focus on profit and we even tune down the revenue and we increase our profit . Right , it's kind of like you're obsessed with one kpi because make it at the beginning , it makes sense . But in SaaS companies there's a trade-off right . Sometimes if you want to increase your growth , you have to do it at the expense of increasing the churn a little bit for a short term and then you can improve it later on . But if you don't do it , you will not grow . So sometimes it's counterintuitive .
Speaker 2So last question we're going to open the floor for questions because they will be much more intelligent than mine , but this is a signature question . This is the most difficult question we ever do at this event , which is everybody has got a useless superpower . A useless superpower . So let me explain . A useful superpower is I'm very good at this , right , I'm very good at whatever , like at organizing events , no , but a useless superpower is something that you do exceptionally well , but it's fucking useless . It's like I do it every day and I don't know why , like I always misplace my mobile phone , or I always manage to lose my keys while I'm traveling , or I always show up at the airport at the wrong day . This is useless superpower , but it's yours . And you do it very fucking well , but you don't know why . Which is yours .
Speaker 1Wow , you should have prepared me for this we got the best answers .
Speaker 1A useless superpower I would say useless superpower Losing time at the beginning of the day . I'm great at that . No , it's like I'm very , very slow and I love it . I love it . I love being slow at the beginning of the day , taking my time to have breakfast reading the news , reading Twitter , putting I mean writing something in Twitter , and oh , Twitter is a useless superpower . Now I got it . Now I got it . That is my useless superpower , because I love it . I have a lot of fun . I've discovered wonderful people , like Kat , like yourself , like many others , but if you think about it , it's a useless superpower Twitter , and it is because I am a slow person in the morning .
Speaker 2This is why that's a good one . That's actually a very good one . Okay , ladies and gentlemen , so there's going to be we're going to be opening the floor for questions . I don't know if we got the dice . Animal dao aguelda . Oh , yeah , yeah , so you can just toss it around . It's a microphone . It doesn't look like it , but you talk into it because then it will go into the video .
Speaker 2Yeah , it works . So one question per person . Say your name and please don't pitch . All right , who wants to be first ? I know there's a lot of pressure here .
Speaker 5first , of all , first take care early bird . Hi , I am alex .
Speaker 2Uh , I have a question like for the company of your side , how do you decide which people you let go when you don't talk with them on a daily basis ? With somebody with whom you don't talk on a daily basis ?
Speaker 1Because I don't decide . I mean in our company . In our company , we have been lucky enough or let's say , well , it is not luck We've been managing well enough to not have to do layoffs like other tech companies . We haven't . But of course , we are very , very demanding on performance and this is how you have the best team . No , or the best team you can have . I don't want to be here .
Speaker 1So now it is the leaders of every team , the ones who decide who are the good performers and the best performers , and the best performers and the non-performing people .
Speaker 1When someone is non-performing , we usually put him or her on a PIP , an improvement plan , so this person has an opportunity to improve and we give this person feedback to improve and we give this person feedback .
Speaker 1But the ones who are , let's say , the owners of their areas are the leaders of every area . I said before , when you are a CEO , you have to trust . That is the most difficult thing , and it's very , very difficult because sometimes it happens that the one you have to trust , sometimes , sometimes it happens that the one you have to trust , the leader of one area , comes and say listen , laura , this guy is not performing , and it happens that this guy may be someone that you like a lot , and then it's this moment these are the difficult moments for a CEO that you have to say , ok , I got to trust you and maybe you try to convince , right ? Well , listen , have you seen this ad ? Well , analyze again . Please take a look again . But if the leader decides that this is a non-performing person and non-performing can be not only numbers or development , it can be also a toxic person , someone that is non-performing as a person that is a toxic apple for the team , oh , no , no , we do quarterly reviews , quarterly performance reviews , yeah , Over there .
Speaker 4Hi , laura , thank you . This is Marco speaking , so my question is what do you think is the most challenging happening right now in the environment that we are economical environment ? For you , what would you say that's the most challenging in terms of talent right now retaining or hiding or capabilities ? What's that , and even more here in the local environment in Barcelona ?
Speaker 1For me , the most challenging I think I said before is that the extraordinary has come with the ordinary . We used to say that we are in permanent change has come to the ordinary . We used to say that we are in permanent change , and I think that when we were saying that some years ago , that we were in permanent change , we had no idea what permanent change means . That is what we are facing now , right . So I will say that that is the most difficult , that it's very difficult to make long-term plans . No , like you know , if I remember 2019 , I said before no , we went and hired 20 SDRs . Now , I will never do that , not only because it was a bad idea , because we were not ready , but because how are we going to do that if we don't know if , in the next quarter , something is going to happen ? So , for me , the most challenging is that is to make decisions in longer than six months . No , it's like okay , let's see step by step if this is going well . Right . So that is very difficult .
Speaker 1And , of course , the talent , the fight for good talent that is always in our ecosystem .
Speaker 1That is a permanent challenge , a permanent one In our local . Let me tell you what it is and that is , I will say , more for larger companies . As I said before , we are one of the fastest growing companies in the ecosystem . So for us it's been a challenge to find the people , the right people , for the next step , because we were the first ones growing , of course , us and Travel Perk and some others not the only ones , but a few group of us . So when we were growing fast , I didn't find the right talent in Barcelona for the next step , for the simple reason is because there was no one ahead of us . And now , thank God , I mean , the ecosystem is larger and there are more companies and there's plenty of people that they've been in experienced companies going to younger companies , right , but that is a big challenge that we have and we still have it . I think we are not enough the number is not big , the number of companies to have the experienced talent that we need .
Speaker 3My name is George . I find your story very inspiring . Laura , thank you . My name is George . I find your story very inspiring . Laura , thank you Particularly that you have Rammstein as one of your clients . Talking about clients or customers , could you please explain to us a little bit how , from a customer point of view , how they measure the quality of service that they get from you , how they assess that you are providing them the service that they're looking for two , three , four KPIs metrics ? I would be curious to hear , and perhaps also at the end , if you can give us an example when your company Redpoint really screwed up on a very important client on one of those methods .
Speaker 1Thank you . Yeah , so listen , in our case it's so easy because I told you at the beginning that we fight online fraud and on a specific basis . That means that we detect the infringements , we monitor and we remove them . We remove . So a client is very , very , very happy if we find a lot of infringements and we remove a lot of infringements . So that is the answer . No , that is the main KPI for them Number of detections , number of enforcements and the speed that has to be fast enforcements and the speed that has to be fast . The fastest the better . So the happiest clients are the ones that they see the number of infringements decreasing like crazy . They see the number of enforcements like being a lot of them and fast . Like being a lot of them and fast . And , of course , our clients the longer they stay with us , the more they appreciate this , because we have a lot of information and how big it was the problem when they came to work with us and how this problem is decreasing over time . No , and they see this in the reports , they see this in the platforms . So that's easy .
Speaker 1And I would say that you were saying who is that client ? Well , I think once we tried to get one of the biggest clients of the world . This was six years ago and we were not ready . So they came to try us and , of course , we did a poor job because we were not ready and they left and that client was Nike . That was , yeah , it was sad , but now we have a lot of big clients that we're ready and they're very happy customers .
Speaker 2Thank you for sharing . That's very brave of you . Last question we got the last question over here , right , oh no ?
Speaker 6Yeah , my name is Angel , and thank you , laura , for being so open in your talk . Can you hear me ?
Speaker 2We can't see you , but we can .
Speaker 1I'm here . I mean thank you all for coming . I mean I'm impressed how many people you're back there , thank you so no pressure .
Speaker 6Now I see you . Now I see you and yeah . So my question is I work in biotech and whenever we go to , we try to engage with potential customers , or when we talk with investors , they always , you know , they're always oh , there's this company that is doing this , there's this company that is doing that . Competitors and their news coming out suggesting the technology is moving in the other direction , moving in the other direction . So how do you manage this and not let these real threats or potential threats distract you from what you really need to do ? And how do you remove , how do you manage , that doubt ?
Speaker 1This is such a good question because , listen , when we came , we started no , as I mentioned before that there were already other companies no Doing the same , addressing this problem , but not with the technology . So those competitors , when they saw us , they didn't care that much because we started with SMBs and they discarded the SMBs and the mid-market . They only wanted the Louis Vuitton , the Adidas and the Nike and the Apple of the world . So they were well , they didn't bother us that much . What happened is that then we grew . We grew a lot . We grew a lot
Final Question and Event Closing
Speaker 1in number of clients and our platform and because our technology was so good , I didn't mention it . But our technology is also based in artificial intelligence . We've been doing artificial intelligence for many years now . Artificial intelligence that is mostly machine learning , image recognition , logo recognition . Now we are also using generative ai for speed , but we've been doing , as I say , machine learning and and around the computer vision for many , many years . And because we were doing this , we built a very good platform and we were the best ones and we are the best ones in the world at what we do .
Speaker 1But the competitors then they started to say that what we said that we were doing , it was impossible that we were lying , that this thing that they say is impossible they're lying , can't be done . They say is impossible , they're lying , can't be done because they didn't know how to do it right . So they were saying that . And our sales guys ? They were desperate because , laura , they are saying this and I said , forget about them , forget about them , let's look at them carefully .
Speaker 1But we continue with our pitch , with our plan , with our platform and proving our clients or our , in that case , the leads , the potential clients what we can do , what we can do . Show them the demos , talk to them , explain very well the value proposition and forget about what the competitors are saying about you and , as I say , you have to watch them carefully . But forget Even some competitors they were especially in the US that they are very aggressive . They were doing advertisements , no , where they compare themselves against us , saying really bad things about us and some of our salespeople . They wanted to push back , no , and to say I say forget , we're not entering this war , we will just show the market how good we are . And it happened .
Speaker 2It's funny that you mentioned AI . My good friend , carlos , in the audience , sent you a question on LinkedIn about machine learning and AI . I don't know if you can share some specifics about what you do with generative AI , because he's too shy to clearly ask that . But give him the mic , because now he's not shy . He's sending it on LinkedIn .
Speaker 5but Hello , my name is Carlos . I think it was maybe too technical question , but I always wonder about companies in the US and in Europe , especially on the AI space . How do you manage the data Like ? Do you have some policies that are different for the data that you use for your models in Europe versus the models that you use in the US ? Do you have a unified platform for all that ?
Speaker 1No , we use the same model and the thing is that we I mean the data that we gather is public , it's out there in the internet . It's not a specific data of the public , it's out there in the internet . It's not a specific data of the client , it's out there in the space . So we gather it and the specific data of every client . We only show it to that client and that is written by contract right . And when we use it for the models , then they already signed that we can use that data for the models , but of course , with any specific information about the specific company . And it's only signed . Everything is in the contracts . They authorize us to do that .
Speaker 2Okay , last one , but it's got to be 10 second question and 10 second answer . Okay , you're separating us from the beers man . No pressure , oh , wow .
Speaker 7Wow , just kidding . Go ahead , I'm Juan . Thank you , laura , for hearing your story . I'm curious . On the beginning you mentioned that RedPoints was one of a kind , because you were using technology to fix a problem that was only fixed with a service . I think that's an awesome path to take as a company , but it has a very big challenge of how do you know your product is ready to fix the problem in the market ? And second is , how do you get your first clients when you are just a technology against a service with 100 employees ?
Speaker 1Yeah , that is a very good question . Well , I mentioned that one of the reasons why we decided to sell to smaller companies instead of the larger companies of the world is because we were building a platform and we were learning with the clients . So at the beginning , the features that we had I mean they can't compare to what we have now . There were fewer and in some cases there was manual work being done until we could build it and in many cases the products that we built , they've been built with the help of the clients . The clients have told us what they wanted and then we built it . So this is how we did it at the beginning . At the beginning , the features were quite basic and everything that was not basic it was being built at the same time that it was being sold , and we were using people when we couldn't reach with technology and we were using people when we couldn't reach with technology .
Speaker 1Today , 95% of everything we do is automatic 95 . And only 5% has the intervention of someone . That is usually related to validation , because for us I remember this is very specific but very short we detect , validate and remove , but we can remove only what we are sure that is bad stuff , because imagine that we remove legal stuff , then we are in a problem . So validation is very important and in some cases , when we are not very sure there's human intervention , we are not very sure there's human intervention and even sometimes many times with that , if we are not able to say if something is fake or is not , then we don't do anything , we don't enforce right , and today we process about 30 million links per day . This is what we do today . Thank you very much , ladies and gentlemen . Please give it up for Laura . About 30 million links per day , this is what we do today . Yeah .
Speaker 2Thank you very much . Ladies and gentlemen , Please give it up for Laura . It's been phenomenal .
Speaker 1Thank you , it was a pleasure .
Speaker 2All right . So now there's some food and some beverages . I think there's a fridge over there , but like there's beer and water water on the top over there and there's food . So thank you for coming . See you in the next year .