Colonel Wendy Swan, Director of the International Social Justice Commission

Though Colonel Wendy is a Canadian officer, she is a true citizen of the world, having spent most of her officership in appointments around the globe. And she’s a passionate advocate for social justice, drawing on years of front-line experience, as well as her own theological studies.

Colonel Wendy is currently the director of The Salvation Army’s International Social Justice Commission, along with her husband, Colonel Ian. She’s also a member of the Army’s International Theological Council and chair of the International Moral and Social Issues Council.

On this episode, she gives us a behind-the-scenes look at the Army’s work at the United Nations; she talks about why it’s important to be an informed advocate—to understand the “why” behind what we do; and she shares some of her own spiritual journey and how God is moving her life today.

International Social Justice Commission website

Transcript

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Kristin Ostensen

This is the Salvationist podcast. I’m Kristin Ostensen. For this episode, we are pleased to welcome back Colonel Wendy Swan. Colonel Wendy is the director of The Salvation Army’s International Social Justice Commission, along with her husband, Colonel Ian. She’s also a member of the Army’s International Theological Council and chair of the International Moral and Social Issues Council. Though Colonel Wendy is a Canadian officer, she is a true citizen of the world, having spent most of her officership in appointments around the globe. And she’s a passionate advocate for social justice, drawing on years of front-line experience, as well as her own theological studies. Today, she gives us a behind-the-scenes look at the Army’s work at the United Nations; she talks about why it’s important to be an informed advocate—to understand the “why” behind what we do; and she shares some of her own spiritual journey and how God is moving her life today.
 
 

Hi Colonel Wendy, and welcome to the Salvationist podcast. Great to have you.

Colonel Wendy Swan

Thanks, Kristin. Great to be back. Looking forward to conversation.

Kristin Ostensen

Yes, absolutely. So, as we're sitting down for this interview, you have just received a King's Coronation medal, which is an award that recognizes people who've made significant contributions to Canada and their home province. So, congratulations! That is an amazing achievement. What was your reaction when you found out? And what does receiving an award like this mean to you?

Colonel Wendy Swan

Well, thanks for the congrats. There is an area of the surreal around this for me. I think as a Canadian, born and raised, I was amazed that I would, first of all, be nominated. That was an incredible privilege, and I'm grateful to the Canada and Bermuda Territory for doing so. I grew up in the province of British Columbia, so I think that's the context of Canada that the medal was given. In my case, yes, there's contributions recognized to Canada and home provinces. Mine was recognized as a quote, daughter of British Columbia, end quote, who has brought credit to the nation of Canada through international service. Huge citation, but I'm incredibly grateful to the Army, because my calling as a Salvation Army officer has taken me to all corners of the globe. And so just a real privilege to be, not only recognized as a Canadian, but also, yeah, a real element of surprise. I would say, what does it mean to me personally? It's a recognition that in God's timing and God's place for each one of us—whether we're acknowledged formally or otherwise—we have the opportunity to impact people's lives. And so, when the letter came with the acknowledgement from both the lieutenant governor—there was a whole slew of government officials, the General's office, the premier, all those pieces—I think it reminded me of the privilege of just community service. So, for me, while, yes, my name happens to be on it and I was part of the ceremony, I think the bigger part was an opportunity to represent the Army as thousands of Canadians continue to serve communities throughout the land. So great to be reconnected to Canada in a unique way.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, absolutely. So, the medal ceremony itself was held at an active naval base in Vancouver. What stood out to you about that experience?

Colonel Wendy Swan

I grew up as a navy kid, so that was a lovely surprise for me to be back on an active base. I was thrilled to have Colonel Ian with me. Much of our international journey has been together. Couldn't imagine receiving this award without him. So that was amazing. I think one of the things I was struck with was the significant representation of the diversity of Canada and diversity of the province British Columbia. Great to see so many different communities recognized with their leaders. I think there was genuine appreciation for the kinds of service that have been given, both locally within individual communities, nationally and internationally, as Canadians. Impactful afternoon, one I will never forget.

Kristin Ostensen

I bet. And I didn't know you were a navy kid. That's very cool, almost like a full circle moment, yeah. 

Colonel Wendy Swan

Very much so. 

Kristin Ostensen

So, the last time we had you on the Salvationist podcast was back in March 2021 when you were the territorial president for women's ministries in Zambia. And of course, you've talked a little bit about your international service, and you've spent most of your officership in international service. How have those experiences informed and prepared you for your work now at the ISJC?

Colonel Wendy Swan

I think I would return to a comment I made earlier in terms of how I continue to be amazed at God's preparation for whatever the next may be. It has been a real privilege to serve internationally in so many different contexts within the Army. I would suggest that both—I've served 10 years in the African continent, 15 years in South Pacific and East Asia, as well as worked in Europe, the Americas. And so, I think all of that combined, there have been valuable lessons to be learned. I think the connectional aspect of the international Salvation Army has proven beneficial for the work of the ISJC, particularly within the Salvation Army realm, if I can use that term. I think a significant piece for this particular appointment, as it relates to the work at the United Nations, is that I find myself very much at home in a diverse cultural setting. The United Nations has 194 member states. Of those 194, The Salvation Army has a footprint in 134 of the same countries. So, for myself, I find that whenever I'm in a room with diversity of opinion, diversity of approach, worldviews, faith expressions, I genuinely feel as though I'm home. And that may sound a little bit like an oxymoron, but because I've been exposed and had the privilege to serve in so many cultures, I feel most at home when there's a real mixed crowd. It's like various parts of me somehow fit together, and I am very much encouraged in diverse settings when I recognize there are many, many people committed to the world's flourishing. Approaches, opinions, methodology might be very, very different. But as a Salvation Army officer, I have the privilege to represent the General at the UN, and that allows me, with previous experience, to kind of bring all of that to bear to any conversation or contribution that The Salvation Army might make.

Kristin Ostensen  

That's very neat. I love that picture of feeling at home in the diversity. And of course, you've been in this appointment since June 2022. How have you felt God's direction in this role, and what have been some key priorities for you?

Colonel Wendy Swan

I think, as I mentioned before, I remain amazed at God's grace. I mean, you noted earlier that, almost like a full circle. I remember when God called me specifically to serve within The Salvation Army, within officership, I felt a real sense of personal loss at the time, wondering, “I love politics, God. I love the way communities work. Is this going to be a loss?” Never, ever could I have dreamt that God would bring all of this full circle so that I find myself again in a political, public arena with opportunity to serve. And particularly at an international level—it has been, and continues to be, an incredible privilege. It's not what I've done. I am very aware that without God's leading and the support of community and appreciation from leaders and a variety of appointments—all of that, for me, has been part of God's direction. Yes, I have a choice to participate in that, but I'm very, very grateful that, you know, God continued each step, be faithful to the next step along the way. And so for me, in this particular role, as I did when I began many years ago, having a sense of dependence on God's Spirit. For me, that is still true today. I'm certainly not in this appointment just because I'm Wendy. I’m in this appointment because God has a much larger picture for the flourishing of the world, and any contribution I can make, I am happy to do so, really, for the kingdom's sake. I would say, as it relates to key priorities: a priority I've long held has been that of gender equality, both within my own life, in the professional sphere, and working within The Salvation Army. It certainly is a key element for the United Nations and many of the other NGOs, non-government organizations, FBOs, faith-based organizations. In terms of, how are we developing both genders within leadership, succession planning, opportunities—economically, socially, leadership? That is a key piece and one of the Sustainable Development Goals at the UN, and I think it’s an important one for The Salvation Army internationally. I'm always encouraged when I see it being done effectively, and my heart breaks when I see that is not the case. But how do we empower individuals to see the possibility and the potential for their own leadership?

Kristin Ostensen

Absolutely, and that has been a fairly key priority in our territory as well recently. So, very much in harmony with that. And are there any other social justice issues that you're particularly passionate about, other than gender equity?

Colonel Wendy Swan

Yes, there are a number, and often for me, justice issues are interrelated. They're never in isolation. And so a long justice issue for The Salvation Army in all of our territories is the issue of poverty. And this is recognized outside the Army. But I think poverty always has—I won't call them “sub-issues,” but I believe they are interconnected. So, the issues of poverty, for the world's poor and marginalized, are always impacted and have a correlating impact to education or lack thereof; access to good healthcare or lack thereof; gender-based violence. I would also suggest that, certainly in the last four years with the Covid, we also have increased modern slavery, human trafficking. None of these stand alone. They are all interrelated. And I think both for the United Nations as well for us as an international Salvation Army, we have a long history of addressing labour practices, wanting people to flourish, and that's why we've remained committed to being in community, because we're very much aware of the reality of where people struggle the most. 

Kristin Ostensen

And can you talk a bit about why some of those things are so important to you? 

Colonel Wendy Swan

I think particularly the issue of poverty. And poverty we know has different levels and different expressions in different parts of the world. I think certainly the 10 years that we served in Zambia and Malawi, because of climate change, when all those pieces, when the rains don't come, the crops don't emerge; when the crops don't emerge, people don't eat; where there's huge dependence on many other things. So, I think first-hand experience of not only seeing, but also identifying with those who have significantly less than other nations—that's had an impact on me and continues to inform my own spending choices. I mean, I'm now living in the City of New York. I very much can identify with the Apostle Paul when he says, “I've lived with much and I've lived with little,” and I continue to learn to be content. I don't think, at the beginning of my officership I would have ever said I identify with that. But over 28 years, I'm thinking, You know what, Lord? That's incredibly true. Poverty in the Canadian and North American setting may look very, very different, but children still go hungry. People are still out of work. People still experience dignity or loss of dignity and a sense of self-worth. So, I think poverty—economically, socially, spiritually—all those pieces can be identified in many different expressions around the world. But it all works against people flourishing, and people flourishing is what God has always wanted. I mean, we know it as shalom in Hebrew. And where people do not flourish, where they don't have a vision for what's possible, Scripture says the people will perish. So, I see a Salvation Army, I see any contribution I might make to be one of how to facilitate and make opportunities available for people to see what is possible, even in the midst of the difficulties in which they might live.

Kristin Ostensen  

Yeah. As you were talking, I was thinking about how the root of the word compassion is, of course, “co-suffering,” and how key and important to have those experiences coming into this role, that you could bring that because of what you've done in your earlier officership.

Colonel Wendy Swan

And I'm very grateful for those opportunities. I have never mastered any of the languages in the communities I've lived in. but I have had a real go at many languages. I still speak them badly. But I think there is an identification with community, the need for food and work, and so when I think of the various contexts in which we've served, they are my neighbours, you know; they are friends. It's not just numerics or economics or statistics. They are people that I’ve had the privilege to live alongside, hopefully be a good neighbour, learn from, understand something of the context, and also, I would add, to see the resilience in what we sometimes assume is an awful situation. But sometimes the measurement by which we decide someone is in poverty—in many ways, they're rich in spiritual things, because their dependence is not on the things and the personal success. It's much more a sense of deep, deep relationship and reliance on God in terms of how they how they choose to live. So, for me, there's a continued lesson of, what can I learn? I must admit, I have learned far more than I have ever been able to give, and that's a humbling reminder.

Kristin Ostensen 

Yeah, that's so true. And speaking of the work that the ISJC does, of course, with the UN, you recently hosted our international leaders. And that was the first time a Salvation Army General in office has met with high-level UN officials since 2008. What were some of the highlights of their visit?

Colonel Wendy Swan 

It was a real privilege to have General Buckingham, Commissioner Buckingham, come to the UN. We were able to get meetings with the UN Deputy Secretary General, Melissa Fleming, who is the head of global communications, with all communication that comes out of the UN. She reports directly to the Secretary General, each and every week. Secretary General was not even in the country at the time. So, that was an incredibly high-level opportunity for the global work of the Army and for the General and Commissioner to hear from the UN, but also to share some of the priorities which The Salvation Army has. And there will be more documents and announcements coming out of that. That was a real highlight. I think a second highlight was that I was able to take Commissioner Bronwyn with key leaders of UNICEF, which works with women, girls and children. That's a meeting which we've not had ever before. And they're particularly focusing on adolescent young women between the ages of 11 and 19, and the international Salvation Army has a lot on the go and commitment to that age group. So, all of these high-level meetings were an important attempt to reconnect with the UN, particularly after the Covid crisis, but also to do so in the areas of shared concern and conviction between the Army and the UN. Ecumenically, we also had the Buckinghams meet with the Archbishop of the Catholic Church, who represents the Holy See in Rome. That was a really important ecumenical piece. As many of the listeners may know, The Salvation Army has been in conversation with the Catholic Church on a number of issues globally for the past 80 years. That was an important opportunity. Buckinghams also met with the Chief Rabbi, who is also affiliated with the UN, as an interfaith dialogue. In other words, how do faith-based organizations function at the United Nations? What can we learn from one another? Where can we collaborate? We know that faith makes a difference, and the UN has recognized, regardless of what the faith motivator is, whether it happens to be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish—that it's those organizations that have the on-the-ground experience and are actually impacting people's lives. Initial feedback from the General's party indicated that they have found it exceptionally helpful. There are some important follow-up pieces of which we're already involved in. And so, yeah, looking forward in future days to making some announcements and just providing some report to the General's Council on moving that forward. Thrilled to have the Buckinghams—very easy, down-to-earth people, global in their own service. So very much at home at the UN.

Kristin Ostensen  

Very cool. And of course, The Salvation Army has been an affiliated NGO with the UN since the UN's formation, and that's almost 80 years now. So, what does that relationship look like on a day-to-day basis?

Colonel Wendy Swan  

I can honestly say that no one day is the same. One of the motivators for The Salvation Army being here at the UN, located in New York City, is that we might be influencers. We have no voting rights. Only member states can do that in the General Assembly of the UN, so it is about identifying and contributing to where faith-based organizations might have the greatest influence. How do you influence the influencers? So, there's a lot of committee work. Colonel Ian and I, just recently, in August, had a number of key meetings with ambassadors and the Economic and Social Council. So, meetings of participation happen at both the local level, if I can call it that, for committee, that you might think of it as the grunt work, but that's really where, that's where the hard work gets done, in preparation for the General Assembly, as well as at the ambassadorial level. So it's a combination of both. And the UN is but one part of our work. We are to advise the Office of the General of global events. So, we're also working with WHO, the World Health Organization, the United Nations’ other significant global bodies who speak to the economic and social areas. That's a specialty of The Salvation Army. You're right—we have been part of the UN since 1945. Privileged to be part of the founding. And we sit underneath what we call ECOSOC, which is the Economic and Social Council of the UN. So, a lot of our work on the ground has to do with the economic and social well-being of people. And of course, The Salvation Army would add the spiritual element as well. That's our prime motivator. And so, the dailiness of that is, a) to be aware of what's happening at the UN. How do we communicate that to the General? In other words, what's the world saying to The Salvation Army? And equally, what might The Salvation Army say to the world through a body such as the UN? A lot of it may seem like meetings. There's a great deal of reading and listening, but we do believe we're making a difference, and it's outward facing. We also have a lot of collaborations and partnerships, both internally within The Salvation Army at IHQ—territorial leaders, zonal leaders, international secretaries, trying to keep as many individuals as possible in the loop of what's happening, what might be impacting their territories, economically, politically, so that territorial leaders are able to make the best strategic plans with their own teams, with the most accurate information that's available. Territorial leaders don't have time to be reading political statements and the other, so that's our job here.

Kristin Ostensen

Very interesting. Thanks for explaining that. And speaking of making a difference, where do you see the Army having the greatest impact in terms of social justice today, around the world?

Colonel Wendy Swan  

It's hard to identify a singular issue. I think what I would say is that we continue to observe and have experienced ourselves, that it's very much a contextual response and resources. And so, in the Canada and Bermuda Territory, where I had the privilege to be on the Hill with, in May, with the amazing Canadian team—they were specifically addressing issues of poverty, homelessness, gender-based violence, and yes, modern slavery, human trafficking. In other parts of the world, the priorities may look very, very different. We'll be aware recently of just the huge outbreak of mpox, or monkeypox again, and so Africa is facing very different health-related justice issues, access to vaccines. Different parts of the world are working on different issues. I think the key piece is allowing each zone and territory to address what is needful in their particular place.

Kristin Ostensen

Well, that definitely makes sense, because, as you say, different places are dealing with different challenges. So yeah, I completely appreciate that. Of course, you are an extremely busy person. Along with your work at the ISJC, you're also chair of the International Moral and Social Issues Council and a member of the International Theological Council. Now I wonder if some people listening might not even know what those councils are, or that we have them. So, can you tell us a bit about them and how you're involved?

Colonel Wendy Swan  

Again, in many ways, I consider I've had a privileged life to make contribution on these bodies. I'll just begin with the International Theological Council. My doctoral studies gives me a PhD in systematic theology, which, for some, they may think, Oh my gosh, how boring, or how complicated. As a Salvationist, actually exceptionally pragmatic. You have to know what you believe in order to be an informed advocate. Because everything we do as a movement and as individuals is theologically based. The question is, how informed is that? And, is it in line with what we understand a Salvationist to be, and the kind of action that a Christian is asked to respond to? So, global representation—we meet in person twice a year, but with the amazing gift of IT, we meet a lot online, and basically work for The Salvation Army world in terms of addressing issues from a theological perspective. Yeah, amazing privilege to be a member of that. I was secretary to the council for a number of years. But with the advent of the chair of the International Moral and Social Issues Council—short form, IMASIC—secretary piece was handed off to someone else. The International Moral and Social Issues Council, which actually sits within the Secretariat of the ISJC here, again is an international council that looks at, as the name indicates, international moral and social issues that would either affect Salvation Army mission and ministry, or global statements that would be and can be used internationally to represent The Salvation Army's position on a particular issue at a point in time. So, for Salvationists, think in terms of one example: international positional statements. And so, we take the global group and are working on resources for Salvationists. All of these things can be found on the ISJC web page, www.salvationarmy.org/isjc—PR plug there—you will see, in many, many languages, a number of significant positional statements. A new positional statement, which has just come out of IMASIC’s work—it's been translated into at least six languages—is an international positional statement on domestic abuse. This has been a long time coming. Many, many parts of our world are struggling with this justice issue, and so there is a brand-new statement being made. Equally, I would say that The Salvation Army has a long history of international positional statements—we're also just reviewing them. The world changes. That's not to say that our position necessarily changes, but the importance of reviewing, updating, so that's a key piece. We're also there to advise the Office of the General. Many Salvationists would be aware of war and conflict, persecution of the church—many of these kinds of issues. And so, in consultation with the General, we’re involved in doing research, discussion. Not all resources will take the form of an international positional statement. They could be a variety of resources. They could be papers; they could be online discussion. It's a forum where Salvationists get to talk. Linked to all of that is, many, many territories have their own territorial moral and social issues council. They may have a different name for it. It really doesn't matter what the name is. But how do we hear from the global Army so that we actually have informed international statements? And equally, how can the international council support the work that's been happening at the territorial level? And that includes Canada and Bermuda.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, of course.

Colonel Wendy Swan 

All of that’s done in collaboration. None of those councils work in isolation. So, if we have, a really quick example is the modern slavery and human trafficking. We asked the International Theological Council to write a one-page theological underpinnings. In other words, why does The Salvation Army engage in an MSHT response? Why do we do what we do? So, we ask the ITC, would you please give us a one-page response, theologically and from Scripture, so that we can share this with Salvationists, as well as give it to potential partners in local communities? Often, the community and the public at large says, We're really glad you're doing what you're doing. Why do you do this? So, the collaborative effort is really important.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, and that's such a good point, right? Because we're really such a hands-on, roll-up-your-sleeves-and-serve kind of denomination. But this deeper thinking, this theological work, is also so important. And I wonder if you have thoughts on how that can be even highlighted more in our movement.

Colonel Wendy Swan

I think we're so busy sometimes doing—and the doing is key, please don't get me wrong—but I think there are times where we can become disconnected after a period of time, and we've always done things a certain way, and we know it's the right thing to do, but we’re either tempted not to do it, or we feel we're too busy to do it. For deeper reflection, reading, thinking, listening—we assume that somehow it may take away from the doing, when, in fact, I would suggest that without it, we may be going through the mechanics and lose the motivation when it really does become tough. So, the deeper thinking is not about isolating yourself into a corner and not engaging; it is about taking time to think, or reading the thoughts of others who've taken that time, such as an ITC or another Salvation Army body, which I believe reinforces why we do what we do. I continually find, particularly in young adults, it's not about the what we are doing. That's the information piece. The question they're asking is, why are we doing this? There could be so many different things that would attract or demand my attention. Why am I choosing to do this? And so, I think the informed action is absolutely key in 21st century. And young adults in particular are very committed to making the world a better place. They recognize the challenges that face this planet we call home, and they know that something must be done, and it must be done quickly, but what motivates them is to know the why. And so, I believe that the informed action is a key piece, and that's why bodies such as the ITC, IMASIC, the International Social Justice Commission, that's why we exist: to provide succinct, where possible, succinct rationale, reasoning, underpinnings for why this should be part of a Salvationist DNA. So, if you align yourself with The Salvation Army in any way, you should know why we choose to engage, or perhaps choose to disengage on particular issues.

Kristin Ostensen 

Yeah, no, that's very true, and I've really appreciated so much hearing more about what the ISJC does, more about what these councils do. This has been such a fascinating deep dive, hearing about the impact our movement is having as we seek justice for the world. And I'm wondering if you might share, on a personal level, how God is moving in your own life as you're engaging in this ministry?

Colonel Wendy Swan

I think for me, I have a renewed conviction that it is not enough simply to be part of a “do good” movement. It's intricately linked to the life of discipleship, of what it means to follow Jesus Christ. And I think, particularly in the last 10 years—and it's a reality for me today, even as we're having this conversation—I am more and more convinced, as a follower of Christ, that any work that I may contribute to justice for the world is absolutely essentially linked to my understanding of holiness. It's not about being a disciple and a life of justice is an addendum, an extra. They’re absolutely linked together. When I look at the life of Christ, when I look at the tradition of the church universal, as people follow Jesus into community, as they worked with and identified with those who were struggling and exploited, it came out of a deep conviction that the world as it is, is not the world as it should be. And so, as God calls individuals to work with him, because that's his mission—you know, Luke 4: “I have come to ….” As we identify with that—that is the life of holiness. And so, justice is a natural outworking. And so there will always be injustice until, we know, Jesus comes again. That's the reality of a fallen world. My conviction, and how God continues to speak to my heart, is that as I engage in a life of justice—not an event, not a program. As I engage in a life of justice, God will always provide opportunities every single day for me to be faithful to that. My responsibility is to respond to those opportunities as they present themselves. Can we do it all? No, we can't. But what's the conviction that we each have to say, “I can do this part today,” and that's being faithful. So, for me, that is the life of holiness. It's an incredibly freeing way to be a follower of Christ. I often will simply, I'll talk about the life of holiness as: Jesus in me, in the world. We want to see where God's at work. He's in the world. So, let's get out there as Salvationists, talk to people, listen to people, be with people, and God's Spirit will clearly provide direction for the next steps.

Kristin Ostensen  

Well, that is a very inspiring place to conclude. And I just want to thank you again so much for your time today. This has been a fabulous conversation, and I'm sure it's going to bless our listeners as well.

Colonel Wendy Swan

Well, thank you. Thank you for the privilege. It's always a privilege to talk about what one's passions are and the accompanying privilege of service. I feel very blessed. So, thanks a million. And God bless the listeners. You know, God's got something amazing for all of us in store. 

Kristin Ostensen

Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Salvationist podcast. For more episodes, visit Salvationist.ca/podcast.