Building a Strong Men's Ministry, with Captain Josh Howard

In The Salvation Army, it’s common to have specific appointments for women’s ministries, as well as for children and youth. But in many places, there is no equivalent position for men’s ministries. 

Not so in the Ontario Division, where Captain Josh Howard is the divisional men’s ministry resource officer, along with his appointment as corps officer in Orillia. On this episode of the podcast we talk about the importance—and uniqueness—of men’s ministries, the male loneliness crisis, and how any corps can build a successful ministry for men, with all generations involved. 

Transcript

Kristin Ostensen

This is the Salvationist podcast. I’m Kristin Ostensen. In The Salvation Army, it’s common to have a specific appointment for women’s ministries at the divisional and territorial level. Same goes for children and youth, with our divisional and territorial youth secretaries. Now, it should go without saying that those are very important ministries. But you might notice that an equivalent position, for men’s ministries, is often missing. Not so in the Ontario Division, where Captain Josh Howard is the divisional men’s ministry resource co-ordinator, along with his appointment as corps officer in Orillia. Today on the podcast we talk about the importance—and uniqueness—of men’s ministries, the male loneliness crisis, and how any corps can build a successful ministry for men, with all generations involved.

Hi Captain Josh, and welcome to the Salvationist podcast. 

Josh Howard

Hi, it’s good to be here with you today. 

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, thank you. So your position is divisional men's ministries co-ordinator—of course, you're also the corps officer at Orillia Citadel—and that's kind of a unique position in our territory and maybe even the broader Salvation Army, as least as far as I know. But why do you think it's important to prioritize men's ministries?

Josh Howard

Well, first, it's interesting to know that this is a unique position. I know that there's been a variety of men's ministry positions around our territory over the last couple of decades, but they've all seemed to have a varying focus or duration that someone's been appointed to that role. Now, when I think about the different kinds of ministry that the Army is involved in, whether it's children and youth, women, seniors, there are all sorts of different styles or focuses. They're all important. They give priority to what's needed, but I don't think that men's ministries is always on the list, and maybe sometimes it's a bit overlooked. So, in some appointments that I've held, I've had conversations with others, there's traditionally been a lot of focus on those other areas that I mentioned, and it depends on the context sometimes, and again, men's ministries is sometimes off the radar completely. So, I really appreciate that the Ontario Division has recognized the ministry to men as something that's important enough to give it attention and to be innovative in creating this role of divisional men's ministries resource officer.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, that's great. Now, of course, there's been a lot of discussion lately around the male loneliness crisis. I'm sure you've seen various think pieces about it, and basically, more and more men are feeling lonely these days and say they're struggling to make friends. What are your thoughts on this, and where do you think the problem is coming from?

Josh Howard  

Well, when I hear this question, it makes me think about a tongue-in-cheek joke I read once that said, No one talks about Jesus’ miracle of having 12 close friends when he was in his 30s. That's an interesting one to kind of think about. And so, when I think about my own life and the passing decades, I can say that this kind of line makes you stop and think a bit. Now, when you're in school-age groups or even into your 20s, you can have a large group of friends from clubs or from teams or even different church groups that you might be involved in, and as life progresses, your priorities change. Whether it's, you're starting in the workforce, maybe you get married—your circle of friends just kind of starts to grow smaller. And then the smaller that circle grows, the loneliness level, well, it increases, right? So, I think some, maybe some of the problem stems from a traditional view of men having to be self-sufficient, or not needing to be open with their feelings or their emotions, and then that circle gets smaller, that loneliness, it ultimately would begin to grow. As you said, yeah, I've read a little bit, heard a bit about the loneliness crisis, and I recently, I'd read it on a journalistic website, it was speaking about this crisis. It shared how some of the challenge boils down to men finding it difficult to be vulnerable with others. And the article shared about a situation where there was a men's group, one man started to share about his loneliness, and the other guys in the group, they started to laugh at him because they thought it was ridiculous that men would share about their feelings with each other. Now put yourself in this situation: if you have that kind of experience, it's understandable why men may not be willing to be open up with others, and it builds further walls, and then enters the loneliness. And if that loneliness, it creates a void, as it likely will, and men are going to try and fill that void with something. It might mean working more hours at their job. It might mean spending more time at other things or hobbies, maybe in some extreme situations and circumstances. It means finding solace in addictions or the kinds of things that have a lasting impact on the social and mental and emotional health of everyone.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, no, it really is a big concern right now. And that example you shared, that's almost—it's a bit heartbreaking. 

Josh Howard

Definitely.

Kristin Ostensen

And so I'm wondering, thinking broadly, how do you think men's ministries can help combat this crisis?

Josh Howard

Well, it's important first for men's ministries to get away from these stigmas, to model to each other that it's OK to be open, to share, to be vulnerable, and really it's a learning piece for everybody. But when we acknowledge that, it's a starting point for growth and for a better overall understanding. Now, I think one way that we can work together to combat the crisis is to take time to learn. It might be done through something like reading books from trusted Christian resources on emotions, or how to communicate better what we're feeling. And it can be done together, too, whether it's in a small group or a Bible study setting with other men. Now, one thing I think that plays a huge role in all of this, an integral role, is trust. Now put yourself in a group with others. If you're in a group with others, you need to have a collective agreement or understanding that what's being shared and said is being done so in confidence. Nobody likes it when something that you share with somebody else in a trusted situation is then known by a whole bunch of other people. That's not where it was meant to go. It was meant to be kept between you and the people you thought that you could trust. I think maybe another thing that we often forget about is the role that prayer plays in our lives as Christians, and there's something beautiful that comes in knowing that someone else is praying for you and ensuring that you're praying for them. So, when we're part of a group, or we have a friend that we can connect with whenever we need to ask them to pray for something that's good or bad or somewhere in between, it reminds us that we're part of something, helps us to lessen that loneliness. Now, I appreciate that there's been conversation about male loneliness and that this connects to a bigger conversation that it's being held about overall mental health. I think that's really important. And that kind of openness, it provides men and everybody, for that matter, with an understanding that it's OK to talk about emotions and talk about feelings and to talk about loneliness.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, a lot of good points there. Thank you. So, given all of that in your experience, what types of men's ministries seem to be the most effective?

Josh Howard  

That's a good question, because men's ministries really can vary. In connection to the male loneliness piece, I would say that ministries that are relational are going to be the ones that are most effective. That's not to say that the fun stuff can't happen, like maybe going to a hockey game or hanging out at a bowling alley, some kind of scheduled event that is on the calendar—that's good. But when men are provided that opportunity to grow as friends in a setting such as a prayer group or a small group or a Bible study, it's a place where they can grow in that trust for each other. And then there's a lasting impact that can be felt. And that kind of impact, it's not just felt within that group—it makes its way into a man's life and then finds its way into their daily living, whether it be at home or at work or in their family or with other friends. Now, I had experience in connection with that. None of us want to go back that way, but in the pandemic, I met with a weekly Bible study group with men, and we had open conversations. We spent time in prayer, and when we were finally able to get together in person, there was this bond between us because we'd taken this time to get to know each other and be vulnerable with one another, because of what we were going through, and I knew that if something came up, we could call on each other for prayer, and that really all boiled down to relationship. I think that's the kind of thing that holds true in all ministries that are impactful. If something is only transactional—think about it for a minute—if something's transactional instead of relational, it's not that much different than us going through a drive-thru and eating a hamburger in our car by ourselves. When we go for a quick meal like that, maybe we get the kind of nutrition that we need, but it's not the same as going out for dinner with somebody and taking the time to properly digest the food, but also digest the conversation and what's going on in each other's lives. So, society, maybe, is not to blame, but part of it is, everything is quick and easy, transactional nowadays, right? It's what people are, we're getting used to. But that's not relational, which is, I think, what is the foundation for any impactful ministry or effective ministry.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, no, that's a good point. And in terms of actually starting a men's ministry—so some of our listeners might have something already going, which is fabulous. 

Josh Howard

Yes, that's good.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, but for a corps/ministry unit that is looking to start something—maybe it's a bit intimidating, right? You don't even know where to start. What would be your suggestion for getting it going?

Josh Howard

Well, first thing would be, talk with your officer. I'm speaking this from the officer perspective, I know, but that way the officer can support a new ministry, but can provide guidance and the resources that might be needed to get it off the ground. Next would be, be reasonable in what you want to do. So, maybe trying to plan a weekly men's worship service or something like that isn't reasonable off the hop because it takes a lot of preparation. But start with something that's attainable and let it grow. Starting too big—you don't want to set yourself up for failure, but you start with something then that's sustainable for the long run. Now, I've heard of some ministries that have started organically and have grown into something bigger. And this happened in one of my appointments. There was a group of maybe a dozen or so men that met for breakfast at a restaurant, and then it moved, the gathering moved to the church because the group had grown so much, and eventually they had 30 or 40 or more men, and they were inviting other Salvation Army churches and ministry units to be part of it. 

Kristin Ostensen

That’s awesome!

Josh Howard

So that's the organic piece, is important. But I mentioned a little bit earlier, too, about sustainability. If something is going to take up a lot of time or too many finances to run, it's best to start with something that can run the course of the duration properly. You want to make sure that it's sustainable and not to fizzle out after an initial beginning. The other piece—and it's, a lot of these things are true for all ministries, but specifically for men's ministries—is you don't have to reinvent the wheel. You can have conversations with other corps that are running men's ministries and see what's working for them. You could even go visit one of their programs, you can gather ideas, build your toolkit for your ministry. And that said, we have to be careful and cautious not to try and replicate what others are doing, because what works for their context might not work for yours. So, you have to be willing to change and adapt and grow within your own setting. 

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, no, that's super helpful. Now, when I think about my own experience in churches, I wonder if there is a little bit of a stereotype around men's ministries kind of being targeted towards older men. And maybe I'm coming at it from my sort of younger millennial experience, but I am wondering: what are your thoughts on how we can reach across the generations so that younger men and older men feel included in men's ministries?

Josh Howard

Yeah, and I'm kind of somewhere in that middle ground, so I get it—I'm somewhere in between. But I think for a lot of men, again, my generation or younger, we do think of men's ministries—it's for somebody else, not for us. It's for our dads, it's for our grandfathers. It can't be for us. But yeah, an easy way to change that stereotype, I think, is to involve younger guys. Now, if you have a men's ministry at your corps, try to involve somebody in the planning that's from a generation different or younger from you. Now that doesn't mean, say, “Here you go, host it, do it all by yourself.” You could do that. There's lots of capable guys that are able to do all sorts of ministry. But what I mean instead is: involve them in the planning and the conversations. What kind of ministry is it that they're looking for? You don't want to plan something, assuming it's what they want. Maybe they're into sports. Maybe they're into video games, something that's not on your radar, and then be willing to learn about it. And not to keep hammering down on it, but it's about relationships. It loops back to that. And then when you're doing that, you show somebody that you're interested in them and what they like, willing to give it a try, and it shows, ultimately, that you care about them. Now, if I take a look at this, from the divisional level, from my division’s level—with men's camp, we have seen younger generations have been attending more. Some of it comes down to a deal that we've been offering for men's camp registrations. We've got a father-son rate, it makes it more affordable for family members to come to camp and allowing a father and son to have a shared experience. The other piece for me is that we've got a cross-section of ages involved in our men's camp planning, so it allows for these different voices to be part of that overall experience, and you're including different people around the table. So, I think when people, they're involved in something, when they have an interest in it, they're going to be invested in it. So that way, you've got this cross-section of, it's not just for the old guys—it's for everybody. And again, this is something that can apply to all levels of ministry. 

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, you're so right. And on the one hand, as I was listening to you, I was thinking, Wow, that's so basic, but just having that intentionality towards involving a cross-section—it really is so needed. And yeah, and it'll help you be attuned to what your community actually, really needs. 

Josh Howard

That's it, and it comes down to the context. What is your context? Maybe you don't have young guys, but how do you do that? Or can you partner up with a different congregation or a different church? How can you, instead of making something for someone, how do you include something so it's what they actually want to be at or involved in? And in and through that process, it comes back to that relationship piece—you're growing in your relationships with each other. 

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, totally. So, on a personal level, what have been some of your most meaningful experiences in a men's ministry setting, and how does that inform your ministry in this role?

Josh Howard

Good question. For me, I would say some of the most meaningful experiences that I've had have taken place over a meal or sharing a cup of coffee, or having a cup of coffee with somebody, and just those simple connections. And I know it sounds very simple, but it's true, because in those situations where maybe it's just a couple of you or a small group, you're facing towards each other, you're there together in community, and you're spending that quality time with each other, and those are the kind of situations where relationships, where they start, where they grow, where they're continued, where they're sustained. But then if you fast forward and there's a bigger need, maybe there's a corps event, maybe there's a camp that's being planned, or there's life stuff, maybe there's a family crisis, job loss, a loved one who passes away—there's this foundation that's already in place, these relationships that are built, and they're built on trust, which is something I spoke about just a little bit earlier. This outlook, it really informs my ministry in this role, but also as a corps officer because, ultimately, it's modelled on Scripture. It's what we saw Jesus doing with his disciples, and it's ultimately, it's a basic human need. We are relational beings. So, if I were to point out something that's been important, impactful, foundational to my ministry, that would be what it is. It's sometimes in those simple moments where you're able to really just be with each other—whether it's a meal, whether it's a cup of coffee, whether it's just being together in prayer—those are the kinds of things where lives are changed, where things, where relationships grow and where ministry can come out of.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, absolutely. And you've mentioned camp specifically, and we're heading kind of into that summer time. I'm wondering if you might share a bit about your approach to a men's camp, and what are some keys there in terms of how that can be particularly impactful?

Josh Howard

Well, I've been in this role now for about a year. Last year, I stepped into the role as men's camp was already being planned, so thankfully things were in good state, so I was able to step into it like that. But I've got a planning committee that's involved. It's not all on my shoulders, which is great as well. That said, I've attended men's camp lots over my years as an officer, too. And I've seen things vary. Some things work for a season. Sometimes you have different leadership and different insights. The other piece, too, is, again, this cross-section of ages. It's good to have that involvement and variety in what you're doing over the weekend, whether it's a variety in the different kinds of worship music that you have involved, or if it's a variety in the different kinds of events. It's also a recognition that for some of the guys, they just need a break and a time away. Maybe the week leading up, or the year leading up has been heavy, and they need time, a prayer space. They need somewhere where they can just find peace and solitude. But from that comes an opportunity to just be there—be in the presence of God, be in the presence of other guys that you have a relationship with, and a circle of trust, or growing in those things, because it could be healing that you need because there's something broken in your life, or it could be a first step in your walk with the Lord.

Kristin Ostensen

Just as we're wrapping up, I'm wondering, for someone who might be listening and are thinking about starting a men's ministry, or want to take their men's ministry to the next level, what's the final sort of takeaway that you would want people to have from listening to this?

Josh Howard

I think including others in the planning, in the ideas. You can have someone that spearheads it, but if you want something to succeed, do your homework, figure out where the need is and where the gaps are. But I come back to this idea of: start simple, start with a group of guys, go for coffee, and those conversations that you have around that table might lead to where the need is, and what the need is in your church community overall. So, whether it's a way that you can start from that, or you can help support other ministries, there's room for growth. And there's differences within your context from somebody else, so be willing to see what fits and what works for you, and be open to trying things. Failure happens, but do your do your homework so that you can learn from that and try something new. Don't be disheartened if it doesn't work the first time and, overall, pray about it, trust that God has got it, and that God will use it for his good.

Kristin Ostensen 

Well, thank you. This has been really insightful. I feel like I've learned so much, and I hope that those listening, men and women, whoever, will be inspired as well. Thanks so much for your time. 

Josh Howard

You're welcome. Thank you.

Kristin Ostensen 

Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Salvationist podcast. For more episodes, visit Salvationist.ca/podcast.