Salvationist Podcast
News and stories from The Salvation Army Canada and Bermuda Territory.
Salvationist Podcast
Mentoring the Next Generation of Songwriters
In The Salvation Army, we have an abundance of gifted composers and songwriters, both experienced and emerging. And that’s why Music Editorial, which is based in the United Kingdom and Ireland Territory, began a composition mentoring program.
Through the year-long program, an experienced composer or songwriter meets one-on-one with a new one, giving them practical as well as spiritual support, creating a relationship that involves both teaching and sharing faith together.
On this episode, two participants in the program share their experience—Simon Gough from the Canada and Bermuda Territory, in the mentor role, and Dominique Bradley from the United Kingdom, in the emerging songwriter role.
Songs featured in this episode:
More links:
Visit the Music Editorial Facebook page
Learn more about Salvation Worship
Find the latest volume of Salvation Worship
Kristin Ostensen
This is the Salvationist podcast. I’m Kristin Ostensen. In The Salvation Army, we have an abundance of gifted composers and songwriters, whether that’s people writing for brass, songsters or worship. Some of those composers are well experienced and have many pieces published, while others are just starting out. And that’s why Music Editorial, which is based in the United Kingdom and Ireland Territory, began a composition mentoring program. Through the year-long program, an experienced composer or songwriter meets one-on-one with a new one, giving them practical as well as spiritual support, creating a relationship that involves both teaching and sharing faith together. Today on the podcast we sit down with two participants in the program—Simon Gough from the Canada and Bermuda Territory, in the mentor role, and Dominique Bradley from the United Kingdom, in the emerging songwriter role. This episode features two songs, written by Dom through the program, and we talk about her songwriting process for these songs, both of which were published through Salvation Worship.
Simon Gough
Hi. I'm Simon Gough. I work for the music and arts ministries department in the Canada and Bermuda Territory, where I'm the contemporary music specialist.
Dom Bradley
And hi, I'm Dom Bradley. I'm an adherent member of Romford Salvation Army in London, UK, and I currently play the keyboard in a worship band.
Kristin Ostensen
Wonderful. It's so good to have both of you on here today and to hear more about this musical composition mentorship program. So, to start things off, can we talk a little bit about your musical background generally, and then leading into how you got into songwriting?
Dom Bradley
So, I've sort of grown up in the Salvation Army section, musical section. So I was playing euphonium in the YP band and singing in the singing company. I also played sort of cello and piano, sort of outside that, but my piano teacher was the corps pianist and stuff. So yeah, a lot of stuff has been through The Salvation Army, and I started playing the keys in the worship band in my late teens. So we've just had our sort of 20-year anniversary of the worship band starting, a couple of years ago. So yeah, it's been going quite a while now. And I think in terms of getting into composing, thinking about it, I think I've always been drawn to writing songs. I used to write sort of joke comedy songs for friends. And then in my 30s, I was sort of writing—I started looking at secular songwriting. And then a few years ago, I got involved in a British songwriting collective called Resound Worship. And that's like a songwriting community that, yeah, from different churches, just writing for their local contexts, and they would sometimes set up a 12-song challenge. So every month, they’d set a different theme of a different worship song that you could try and write to. So that's been sort of my development in the into composing over the last few years.
Kristin Ostensen
And how about you, Simon?
Simon Gough
Same thing. I grew up in The Salvation Army. So my music education was largely through The Salvation Army. As I got bigger, my instrument got bigger, and now, I played the tuba last, so that's probably not a good sign. So, exposed to a lot of music there, and then a lot of different music outside of my Salvation Army life as well. So I've always just been intrigued by songs and songwriting and the stories that song can tell. And so I have really just from quite young, just kind of noodled—as soon as I discovered the guitar, I guess that really unlocked my songwriting, and just noodling with chords and chord shapes and how different sounds work together, and then how lyrics can paint a picture over the top of that. And so that was from my early teens. And then did some projects while I was still in Australia to try and encourage some songwriters. And since we've moved to Canada and been part of the music department here, we've started Salvation Worship, which has been a real, I guess, focused point of attention on songwriting and helping songwriters, both in the Canada and Bermuda Territory and around the world, to be creating songs that are working for Sunday morning worship for congregations, and helping us to have, as a Salvation Army, have our voice in worship in 2025 and beyond.
Kristin Ostensen
So over to Dominique. Obviously, when you apply for this program, you already had a fair bit of experience under your belt. You were part of this collective. Can you talk about why you wanted to participate in the program? What led you to apply?
Dom Bradley
Yeah, I think I was just really drawn to that opportunity to develop. I think I actually applied one year and then didn't get a place. And so I was really, you know, lucky to get this second time round. But yeah, just that being able to be mentored one to one with that SA context as well—just having someone sort of knowing that history of The Salvation Army and the music and what's gone on there, that was appealing. I think also it can be quite isolating sometimes, songwriting. I mean, I can be quite, you know, self sufficient, or writing by myself. So it's quite nice to sort of think that I could have someone to journey with me and sort of input and teach. So yeah, so that was my appeal to applying for that.
Kristin Ostensen
And how about you, Simon? Why did you want to participate as a mentor?
Simon Gough
We'd been working very closely with Music Editorial in the UK, who were the ones who kind of own this program. And Andrew Blyth reached out. We'd been doing Salvation Worship for a couple of rounds, and they'd been working with us to create the choral content for the Salvation Worship publication. And so yeah, Andrew reached out—Andrew Blyth, the head of Music Editorial, reached out and just asked if I'd be interested. And it sounded like a great way for me to be a bit intentional as well. Sometimes I don't do a lot of writing because I'm working with a lot of writers. So being intentionally critical, but not in a—critiquing, maybe, is a better way to put it, other people's work and sitting and putting intentional thought into songwriting and the ways that we can do it better, was a way to force me to kind of keep improving my skills and keep being intentional. And like Dom said, to work with someone one on one, you develop an understanding of their writing and how you can work together. So it was a really rewarding experience for me, too, and educational for me when I'm thinking about my own writing at times.
Kristin Ostensen
So when did you two actually start working together? And what were your first impressions of the program and each other?
Dom Bradley
I think we started in September ’22. Is that right, Simon?
Simon Gough
Yeah. I think so. Yes.
Dom Bradley
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, and I think I was a bit nervous about it, just not having done that sort of, you know, had that sort of mentoring relationship before in terms of songwriting. But I think—I don't know about you, Simon—but I quickly found that it was a really great experience. I think we worked well together. I could tell immediately that Simon was really knowledgeable, but really, like, generous with his experience and knowledge as well. So that was really—yeah, I think from the first session, I was sold and really sort of keen to sort of continue that relationship.
Simon Gough
I started the year before with a with a different mentee, and then Dominique was the second person that I worked with, and she'd already written and submitted some songs for Salvation Worship. So I was already, I was really excited to get to work with her, because she was someone who had been, had just shown interest and shown a desire to be doing this. And that's the kind of people that you want to work with, right? The people who are excited and putting themselves out there. Because as a songwriter, as any kind of artist, it's hard to put your work out there at times. So someone who's got the bravery and the courage to do that, as someone who's mentoring, from the mentoring side, I thought, Oh, that's someone who's in a really good mind space to maybe receive some of that feedback and to work on their craft, and is obviously wanting to share this stuff with the church, which is exciting. And then, yeah, like Dominic said, I think we worked quite well together. I knew she had a lot of strengths. Her storytelling in her lyrics was always really, really strong. She's always written really strong lyrics for the stuff that I've seen. So it was working on different aspects of songwriting and refining those skills as well.
Kristin Ostensen
Well, let's talk about the work that you did together. So how did you approach those sessions? What was the format and how did you really dig into the songwriting process together?
Dom Bradley
I think, generally, I think we sort of started off sort of understanding or setting out sort of intentions and expectations and from the whole process. And I think early on, one of my issues I felt with my songwriting was that I didn't really have a—I was a bit old school. I mean, old school sounds too cool—probably old fashioned. So I wanted to try and, you know, have a bit of a more of a modern sound. So that was helpful to sort be able to bring to Simon. And I think apart from that, we did some song analysis, sort of just looking at some of the other modern stuff, like Bethel and, you know, Elevation Worship—that sort of thing—and just really analyzing, you know, what aspects I might want to be able to take on in my writing. So that was a really helpful process. And I think in terms of the process, I'm a similar with Simon, I'll maybe start noodling from the music point of view and see where that leads in terms of the actual song and theme, or start from the phrase or a concept itself, and then go into the music part.
Kristin Ostensen
And Simon mentioned you're a very strong lyricist, so does that often happen first, or do you get the melody first and then the words just come to you?
Dom Bradley
It does depend. Yeah, it just depends where it starts, where it comes from, really. I think sometimes, usually, once I've got the first verse, or maybe the first, like, eight-bar phrase, then the next patterns do just flow. Generally, though, those songs do just flow easily, I do find. But yeah, I just need that starting point, really, to spring from.
Kristin Ostensen
And does that resonate with you, too, Simon? How about you?
Simon Gough
Yeah, absolutely. Often for me, when I'm writing the main idea or hook of the song is the thing that I get first. So often I'm writing a chorus first, because that's the main idea, the main emotion, the main drive for the whole song. And then how do we support that with metaphor, with verbs, with the way that we explain and unpack that main idea? So, it's an idea about God's grace. How do we tell a story of coming from a place where we didn't believe, to understanding and accepting that grace, and then how do we take it from there to sharing it with other people? I like those story kind of songs, and Dominique does a great job of that. She really takes people on a journey through her songs, and a lot of them start, yeah, it's the story of grace or salvation in a lot of them, where you see God's work through the verses of the song, and you can get the excitement of what God does in our lives through that. So that's always been a real strength of Dom's writing. And so we were just working, like she said, on—we're a product of the sounds we're around all the time. So being in The Salvation Army, there's certain things that you hear all the time, and that's what's comfortable, and that's where your ear goes. So yeah, we did a bunch of listening to different music, and not just Christian music, even. There was certain things that, “Oh, I'd like my songs to sound like this.” “Well, let's go and listen to that and work out why does it sound that way? What are the choices that they're making with their melodies, with their chords and harmonic structure that help us to understand why that music sounds that way? And can we use that in in your writing, or can we use that for congregational worship? Is it conducive to congregational worship, even so?” Yeah, it was a cool journey.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, no, that's really fascinating. And I'd love to hear about how what you have just talked about played out in the actual songwriting process, because I understand that you did work on a particular song during the mentorship program. I saw it on Salvation Worship called I Rest in You. Can we talk about that piece of music, how that started, and how that grew and came along as you worked together, and all these different influences and things?
Dom Bradley
Yeah, I think that was a really good example, actually. I think that was purposely trying to sort of think more, you know, obviously not trying to copy a style, or try to, you know, replicate completely something that someone's already done, but yeah, try and get that modern sound. I think I was thinking of Bethel at that time, and trying to sort of simplify—have a simple melody, having a simple chord progression, not making it too busy. And that was definitely something that, yeah, we brought to together that was—and I think the end result was a more modern-sounding version of what I could have probably come up with by myself. So, yeah, so that was a really interesting process, how that came together, that song.
Simon Gough
Often good lyricists put a lot of lyrics in their songs because they're trying to be very descriptive and, yeah, they're using a lot of words. And so sometimes, when we break that down, though, when you break it down into a three-minute song or a four-minute song, are you overfilling the content of the song? And so that's one thing that we worked on a lot, I think, especially with I Rest in You, even, was: how do we say what we want to say? What's the heart of that line? Is there a more efficient way to say it? Because a verse, people may not repeat, so they've got to be able to kind of take that in and use it as worship quickly. And so there's beautiful metaphor and things we want to paint pictures with, but how do we do it well? And we talked a lot about things like upgrading our verbs as a writer. And so instead of—you can use verbs to convey meaning, so instead of saying someone walked into a room, you could say they slithered into a room, and that has context and meaning that's greater than that one word. And so having those verbs upgraded, all those sorts of things, really helps convey a message and paint those pictures. And that was a bit of what we worked on, and taking out syllables, because then you can take out little notes, and you can give people more space. You can have a longer melody. So “I rest in you” is for four syllables in four words, but it's quite a long melody, so people have time to process, and time to take in what they're singing and internalize that as worship to the Lord.
[Music: “I Rest in You”]
Kristin Ostensen
That was I Rest in You, written by Dominique Bradley and sung by Rabekah Wiseman.
And was there anything else you worked on as part of this program, or was that kind of the main thing?
Dom Bradley
I think the other main song, I think, that came out the process was Maranatha, and that—yeah, I mean, part of that stemmed from one of the guys in our small group. He was talking about, yeah, just that concept of “maranatha.” I don't know if I'd heard of it before—that “Jesus,” you know, “come to us.” And that was something, you know, in terms of my spiritual experience of a time I was really struggling to get time with God and just feeling so busy. And so I've really felt like I needed God to come with me, rather than me needing to go to him. So that was a really good song to come together and develop together, I think. Again, in terms of the actual chording and the instrumentation, I knew that, for example, Maranatha, I wanted something—because it was such a lovely word, I wanted to have a chord sequence that it really fell nicely on. So I did experiment with a couple of different versions, and the final version is what came together. But it was things like that where we could talk through that process together.
Simon Gough
And this one was a big one, because it's a lot more of a minor feel, I think, than Dom had used before. And so that was an interesting journey to work out, OK, how do we have a message of hope and grace, but within a minor kind of feel through the song? And how do we, yeah, build the understanding of the hope that we have as part of that maranatha message, in that sort of surrounding, I guess, harmonically, which is, yeah, it was great.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah, it's an interesting challenge. Very cool. And of course, the program is not just about the practical skills of songwriting. It's also about growing in faith and being equipped for ministry, and then, of course, serving the broader Army with these songs that we're creating. So can you both talk a little bit first about how your walk with God influences your songwriting, and then can you talk about the spiritual component of this program itself, and how it helped you grow spiritually?
Dom Bradley
Yeah, so I think, like I was mentioning, in Maranatha, that was more about my personal experience, my personal sort of journey. So, I think that's how sometimes the songwriting can be explored in terms of my personal experience. And I think sometimes I also have that corporate connection, my wanting to express something from our church or definitely in our local context. One of my songs, Father Lead Us, that was based on our, we just, I think we got new officers, and we had our new mission/vision statement. So it was really something so that I wanted to for us to corporately be able to sing together and pray together. So yeah, so I think there's an element of sort of individual and the corporate side of the spiritual experience for me.
Simon Gough
I think that songwriting has such an important part to play in The Salvation Army because we don't have a defined liturgy. And so our singing is our liturgical practice. It's the aspect of God that we remember and we bring to mind every week, every service that we're part of. And so, like Dom was saying, having something for a congregation to sing together is really important. And I think the burden on songwriters is to do that well so that the congregation is singing stuff that is, it's appropriate for them to sing. It's truth about God. It's going to remind them of who he is in their lives. And so, as far as helping us grow spiritually, I think taking the time and being intentional with the lyrics that you're giving to the congregation, the words that you're putting, the words of prayer and praise you're putting on the lips of the congregation through the songs that you write, you have to be really sure that the things that you're asking others to say are true, and so I think it really makes, for me, it makes me focus on, what are the things of God that he's speaking to me about now, that are that I'm writing about? But also, am I sharing things that will help others see him in their lives and see how he's working now? Yeah, it's a real burden to do that well and to do that in a way that's going to not just glorify God, but help others see his glory as well.
Dom Bradley
It's quite humbling, I think, to think that, you know, people can use your songs as part of their act of worship as well. So yeah, it's a bit of a responsibility in some ways, but yeah, what a privilege to be able to do that.
Kristin Ostensen
Yeah.
Simon Gough
And there's times where you write songs that are just for you and God, and I think often those are the ones that I don't remember and I don't write down. It's just something that comes out, and it doesn't need to be formed and fashioned, and we don't need to worry about the harmonics and make sure it's all presentable for others. And so, I think there's moments where we get songs like that, that are just on your heart. But then when we do give something to a congregation, for instance, it needs to have that time spent with it, because that's a reflection of how good God is. Through what we do, we're just reflecting his goodness and his greatness. And so, the art that we can provide through songwriting and give to the congregations is just a reflection of that, rather than kind of anything of our doing. And that's why we spend the time in a program like this, developing skills and growing our abilities, is so that we can fully show how great God is through what we do.
[Music: “Maranatha”]
Kristin Ostensen
That was Maranatha, written by Dominique and sung by Lauren Westwood.
So, when you look back then, what were some sort of key takeaways for you for this program, and would you recommend it to other aspiring songwriters?
Dom Bradley
Yeah, one of the key things I've taken away is the value of learning from others. I think that's either from someone who has got more experience and, you know, is gifted in songwriting as well, or from other songs, other songwriters you know, that are out there, already accessible, just really getting that feedback, and listening, and sort of putting the work in, to really hear what other people are doing, and also to try and see that songwriting as an act of worship as well. I think I sometimes feel guilty if I'm, you know, taking the time to, you know, do a little hobby songwriting. But I think when it's in that spirit, you know, it's wanting to express yourself and want to lay out what’s on God's heart and what you feel he's saying, then, yeah, I think that can only be a good thing.
Kristin Ostensen
And for yourself, Simon, how do you think this program and being a mentor in this program has helped you grow as well?
Simon Gough
I love writing corporately. I like writing with other people, so working with someone else really energizes me and gives me excitement and encouragement in my own personal writing. So, being a mentor has been as beneficial to me, I think, as any of the people who I've mentored. And so having the time set aside to yet be intentional and sit down and look at their writing and think, OK, what's good? What could be better? What do I like? What would I use? What would I not use? All those sorts of things, but then also remembering that this is somebody else's expression of worship and their art. And so, how do I make suggestions and bring things to light without saying, “Oh, this is how you should do it,” and making everybody write the way I would write. That was good for me, because, yeah, it's Dom's writing, it's whoever I'm working with’s writing, not mine, and so their voice has to be distinct and seen in all this stuff as well. So how do I kind of guide? And that was a good process for me, has been a good process, and still is for me to continue to work through. And I've worked with some very talented people who are excellent musicians, such as Dom, who have a lot of skills already. So it's not, we're not kind of building from the ground up with this stuff. It's definitely been a case of, how do you, yeah, refine those skills and enhance them really?
Kristin Ostensen
No, that makes sense. So, as we close, then, what advice would both of you give to aspiring Salvationist writers? Is there anything that really stands out to you now that you've been through this process, or just anything else in your songwriting journey?
Dom Bradley
Yeah, I think it's just sort of keeping in mind that there is still space for The Salvation Army, for Salvation Army writers in contemporary Christian worship, I think, whether that's for brass or corporate worship or different settings—I know there are big, the sort of “usual players,” but it's not even about writing popular songs. I think if God's leading you to write music—and that might be for your church or brass group or a solo efforts to express something in your heart—then just go for it. Yeah, do it, and God will bless what you do.
Simon Gough
And I just encourage people to write. Writing songs is, it's almost a muscle, right? It's using and developing skills. And if you don't use them, they weaken. If you do use them, you can strengthen them and grow them, which is exciting. So just be writing, find someone that you can talk to and share your writing with that can give you critique, give you feedback. And voice note on your phone is your best friend. Everybody's carrying around a little recorder. Whenever you have an idea, sing it into your phone and then put it away. And maybe that's the chorus or the bridge or a verse of a song in six months time. And I've got a bank of these little notes on my phone that just sit there, and you go back through every now and again when you're looking for something. And so that would be my one tip for people is, yeah, use voice note all the time.
Kristin Ostensen
I love that. You know, as a writer, I definitely use just the regular Notes app on my phone for ideas, all the time. So appreciate that for sure. Well, I appreciate both of you. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast to talk about this program. It really is a fabulous program, and I'm so glad that both of you grew so much and are contributing to The Salvation Army in this wonderful way. So thanks so much for your time.
Dom Bradley
You’re welcome.
Simon Gough
No worries. Thank you.
Kristin Ostensen
Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Salvationist podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes for links to the music for the songs shared on this episode. For more episodes, visit Salvationist.ca/podcast.