General Lyndon Buckingham and Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham Come to Canada

From April 17 to May 4, the Canada and Bermuda Territory was honoured to host General Lyndon Buckingham and Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham. During their tour, The Salvation Army’s international leaders travelled from coast to coast, from St. John’s to Vancouver, encouraging Salvationists to keep Jesus at the centre of all we do. 

On their final day in Canada, they joined the Salvationist podcast to talk about the Jesus Our Compass tour. 

But the conversation covered a number of subjects: their time as corps officers in Windsor, Ontario, the General’s health crisis last October—and the dark nights of the soul that followed—and how their own family’s legacy of Salvationism still inspires them today. 

Pick up the July/August issue of Salvationist and read the highlights from the tour. 

Watch all the live streams from the tour here.

Transcript

Kristin Ostensen

This is the Salvationist podcast. I’m Kristin Ostensen. Last month, we were so fortunate to welcome General Lyndon Buckingham and Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham to the Canada and Bermuda Territory. This was no small tour—The Salvation Army’s international leaders stayed with us for more than two weeks and literally travelled from coast to coast, from St. John’s to Vancouver. On their final day in Canada, I sat down with them to talk about the Jesus Our Compass tour, but we also talked about a number of other subjects—their time as corps officers in Windsor, Ontario, the General’s health crisis last October—and the dark night of the soul that followed—and how their own family’s legacy of Salvationism inspires them today. Be sure to pick up the July/August issue of Salvationist and read all the highlights from the tour.

Hello General, hello Commissioner. It is so lovely to have you here on the Salvationist podcast. Now we are at the tail end of the Jesus Our Compass tour, and it has been such an amazing time for everyone, and so I want to start by saying, as you look back on the tour, what have been some highlights for you? What really stands out?

General Lyndon Buckingham 

I think for me, as is always the case, what has impressed me the most has been interactions with people, and from the very first day right up until today, meeting so many people who are interested in, committed to, working for The Salvation Army and its mission and ministry, whether they're officers or staff or volunteers or soldiers in a corps. The interactions with people have been really, really encouraging. So that would be a highlight for me.

Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham  

And for me, I think one of the lasting highlights that I'm going to take away is last Sunday, or our middle Sunday, when we were in Vancouver, and to see young adults in the worship service coming forward for prayer when they were invited to at the end of the service, and to see them praying for themselves and arms around each other and praying for each other. And then, as they stood and we sang the final song, they just stayed there, and they were worshiping so freely and so enthusiastically. And I just said in my heart again, Thank you, Lord, for the next generation, who I believe are the now generation for The Salvation Army. Now we've seen that all over Canada, but that was particularly beautiful in Vancouver. So that's a memory that I'm going to take away and cherish from here. 

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, no, that's so beautiful. And of course, everywhere you've been really, you've made a priority of doing these youth events. And I'm just wondering, as we were planning the trip, why was that important to you? And what really stands out to you, aside from, of course, aside from the service you mentioned—what stands out to you about the youth in our territory?

General Lyndon Buckingham  

I mean, first of all, it's great to see a Salvation Army that still has youth participating. And I think our particular interest and focus on youth, I mean, we've had a passion for young people's ministry for many years now, but there is a definite move of the Spirit amongst young people. It's waving across Europe. It's in other parts of the world. And so I think our keen interest in youth is because, I think the Lord is speaking to this emerging generation. He's making himself known to them, and it was important for us to give expression to it, to see, to encourage, to remind young people that they are thought about, they're appreciated, they're valued. They have a place within the movement. We need them. So I think we were keen throughout the tour to make the opportunity to see young people, to be present for young people, because I think in terms of a renewal within the movement, I have a sense that that's where it's going to come from. 

Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham  

They’re fearless in their speaking about Jesus. I love that about the next generation that's coming on behind us. They have a depth of spirituality that, I have to be honest, that at their age I didn't have. And what I find with that generation, and what we want to encourage them in, is that when they decide they're in, they are all in. They are all in for the gospel. They are all in for Jesus, and I believe they are all in for The Salvation Army. But we need to make space for them to grow The Salvation Army in ways that are going to be relevant for their generation and the one that's coming on behind them, and we just want to be part of being their cheerleaders.

General Lyndon Buckingham  

Creating a culture of permission for young people is important to us.

Kristin Ostensen  

Yeah, no. And that's so encouraging to hear that it wasn't just, you know, one city. It really was everywhere, and that's so beautiful. And of course, you are sort of here, there and everywhere. As our international leaders, you travel extensively. And I'm wondering, when you think about Canada, what stands out to you about The Salvation Army here? What is unique about the expression here? What are some of our strengths?

General Lyndon Buckingham  

It's hard for me to answer the question, what is unique? I mean, we started in Newfoundland, which is a very unique place to begin with. I kissed the cod. Yeah, that’s right. I think that one of the things that—I don't know whether it's unique, but it's interesting to me, is the diversity, multicultural, there's lots of different peoples coming together, and I think that's beautiful. And I think that there's an opportunity for The Salvation Army in Canada to paint a beautiful picture, that it's possible to bring people from different races together, you know, from different expressions together, and celebrate community, celebrate fellowship, celebrate understanding. I think this is a beautiful thing, and we've seen, as we've traveled around the country, how that's part of who you are within the Salvation Army's context here. And I think that's—whether it's unique—I saw it and appreciated it, and so I think that's a beautiful takeaway for me. I think that the footprint of The Salvation Army in Canada is large. I think you have a very good reputation. I think you're appreciated. You were spoken about very positively in Parliament in Ottawa. I think that was a beautiful affirmation of the mission and ministry of The Salvation Army in Canada, being recognized as making a really valuable contribution to society. I think that's really important. And like other territories around the Western world, it's just going to be important for us to continue to find ways to bring the whole Salvation Army to the whole person, telling the whole story of who we are and what we do. And we've seen some beautiful expressions of that as we've toured the country as well. So we're encouraged by what we see. We know that you have identified the challenges that exist for you, and I'm praying that in these days, you and your leadership teams will have the courage to take the steps that will ensure that we remain vibrant, growing and impactful in the community. 

Kristin Ostensen

Of course, this isn't your first experience of Canada. Some people listening might know that you were corps officers in Windsor, Ontario, back in the 90s. When you look back on that experience, what were some of the precious memories that you have, and how did it shape you as people and officers?

Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham

Yeah, I think that there's no doubt that coming back and being able to spend this time in Canada, and especially these last few days in Ontario, which is the more familiar part of Canada for us, has brought back a lot of memories. And we've seen friends and, you know, people who became lifelong friends like family, really, to us. So that's been really special. Those years, back between 1994 and 1998, we were very young—not only in years, but we were very young in our officer journey. We were lieutenants when we landed on the shores here back in 1994, so we were very inexperienced. And the corps family at South Windsor Citadel just completely embraced us as, I think, as a young family, as Kiwis way from Down Under now a long way from our home. And so, we felt embraced, and we felt like we belonged very quickly. It was a rich learning experience for us, moving away from all that was familiar, moving away from our family, bringing our two little children way to the other side of the world, long before social media and FaceTime and, you know, all of that. And so I guess they were years of really establishing ourselves as a family unit and certainly establishing ourselves in ministry.

General Lyndon Buckingham  

Yeah, we were young, we were enthusiastic. We had lots of crazy ideas and things that we wanted to try. And the leadership team at South Windsor were very patient and accommodating of these young Kiwis from Down Under. And I think the result of their patience and our adventurous spirit led to some exciting times in that corps back in the day. And we learned lots of lessons about leadership and about ministry, and I think it did shape the rest of our officership journey, to be honest with you—just those four beautiful years at that corps, which we're so very, very grateful for. And you know, there's no doubt—you know, it's 30 years on. You romanticize it, right? I can only remember the good things about South Windsor Citadel—it’s all I can remember. But I think that says something, that even in the midst of the realities of ministry, we saw God moving amongst the people. We saw a fellowship of believers getting together to try new things, to reach their community. And it was a rich, rich experience for us.

Kristin Ostensen  

That's wonderful and such an amazing testimony to that particular corps, that they welcomed and embraced you so much. Yeah, and you know, you're part of this huge global Salvation Army family, and so when something happens to you, it almost ripples through the entire movement. And you know, I think back to last October, when you had your health crisis, you had a heart attack, and you shared so candidly and so beautifully about it in your Easter message. But I'm wondering, when you think back to that experience, what was it like to go through that, not just as yourself, but also as the leader of this whole movement? And how was God faithful to you in that time?

General Lyndon Buckingham  

Yeah, it's a very good question. And I'm so grateful because so many people intervened on that day, that the Lord had the right people in the right place at the right time, and so we can see his hand on it. Just miracle after miracle. You know, an off-duty nurse passing through the emergency ward whose best friend happened to be a cardiologist whom she phoned. Just so many stories that just reinforce that we were being watched over. We were being surrounded. So, the actual incident, the actual heart attack and follow up, is not really where I had most of my journey to do. I mean, I was just grateful—we were looked after so well. I think for me, dark nights of the soul came afterwards. It's like, “Come on, Lord—I was about your business. What's the deal here?” you know. Then, just moments of doubt about: Am I going to be well enough to keep going? Is the Army going to be better served by having a different leader? There was lots of journeying for me to do. 

Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham 

Do you want to keep going?

General Lyndon Buckingham 

Do I want to keep going? Have I had enough? There was all of that, that kind of occupied my mind in those weeks of recuperation, you know. But again, I'm thankful to God for mentors and other people who spoke into my life at the right time, and the Lord used them to help me just do that journey and get my heart and mind back into the place where it's surrendered to the will of the Lord. And I'm trusting and I'm joyful and I'm ready to go. And I was very grateful in February of this year to have a full heart medical-thing done, which confirmed that there's no damage to the heart muscle, and that if I look after myself, diet and exercise and rest, that, you know, the cardiologists are saying you'll have more energy than you had before. And there's some people that are nervous about that because I think I had a lot of energy before, and I know that I've got even more now. So you know, the Lord's good hand has been on us and—

Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham

And the prayers of the people.

General Lyndon Buckingham

Look, honestly, overwhelmed. Our inbox, our mailbox, Messenger, messages—we were just flooded with people whom we don't know, but they know the General, right? And the promise of ongoing prayer support—we're carried by that. There's no doubt about it, that there's a divine intervention taking place to kind of propel us along. And it's the prayers of people. It's very, very humbling. It's very humbling. And we're both just determined to continue to serve with energy and passion, because that's what the Lord is calling us to do.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, well, I can certainly see how much energy you folks have. If you didn't manage to make it to one of these meetings on the tour, look up one of the live streams, folks, because it was incredible. And, of course, people might not know, but you both come from multi- multi- multi-generation Salvationist families. When I looked it up, I think you’re fifth- or sixth-, Commissioner. You [General] go back into, like, the 1800s.

General Lyndon Buckingham

Yes, it’s true.

Kristin Ostensen

That is incredible. What a legacy. And I'm wondering, how has that sort of lifelong and beyond connection and experience in The Salvation Army influenced the way you lead today? And as leaders of the movement, how do you continue the Army's legacy while also still pushing us into the future?

Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham  

I'm incredibly grateful for the rich legacy, the heritage that is mine. I know that I'm the product of praying grandparents, praying parents, parents who dedicated me as a baby and, you know, gave me back to the Lord, and have, I think, sacrificed in these last number of years that we've now been away from New Zealand for 13 years and counting. But they've done that joyfully and faithfully, and I'm the product of that heritage that is mine. So, I'm grateful for that and, you know, for the upbringing in my home corps, the programs that I was able to be involved in, the mentors that came around me as a child and as a teenager. Incredibly grateful for it all. But what I have come to realize, many years ago, and have carried with me and speak it out whenever I can, is that it's beautiful to be a fifth- or sixth- or seventh-generation Salvationist, but you can only ever be a first-generation believer. And I had to come to that point for myself, and that happened for me as an eight-year-old child, and I grew and grew and grew in that, and I'm still growing in that today. And so, I would just want for people to remember that although the heritage and the legacy is a gift—and there's no doubt that it is—each of us has to, at some point, own a faith for ourselves. I've heard it said that God has no grandchildren. We're all his children. We're all first-generation believers, you know, in the Lord Jesus Christ. And no doubt, the gift of heritage is beautiful, but it's really important that we come to the point of owning it for ourselves.

General Lyndon Buckingham

You know, for me, I think I'm inspired by the history story as it relates to my family, insofar as: in 1883 a young 19-year-old and 20-year-old came out from the United Kingdom to bring The Salvation Army to New Zealand. My family became involved, I think, in about 1886 under the ministry of one of those guys that came out. So, Pollard and Wright came, then 19 and 20, and under Wright's ministry, that's where my family became involved, got saved—two generations in one evening came to the Lord, and that's the journey. So that's what inspires me. I'm grateful for the faithfulness, but those 19- and 20-year-old officers had no idea that that little meeting they conducted in that town, which resulted in two people coming to the Lord, would then further result in another generation and another generation and another generation coming under the influence of the gospel. And that inspires me. And when you talk about legacy, I'm thinking about the legacy we make today. We're creating legacy. The decisions we take, the actions we take, the things we get involved in now—that is creating legacy for the future. So, you think about Salvationists all around the world—officers and soldiers and others sharing the gospel, sharing ministry—it's not just the immediate reaction. It's the impact then on subsequent generations, because in the same way, it can pass on down. And so, all that to say, you just don't know, do you, the impact that your life, that your witness, that your service, is having, not only in your time, but in generations to come. So, I think, for The Salvation Army to grab a hold of that is, you know, it's not just today. We are impacting generations yet to be born, because we are sharing faithfully the good news of God's love in Jesus. And so, in my own story, that's what inspires me. All of this generation stuff only happened because these young men were brave enough to say their yes and come and bring the gospel to my family. So, I'm looking for men and women and young people now who are saying yes, because it's going to have a similar kind of impact on future generations. That inspires me.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah, that's such an encouraging message, you know? Because sometimes, of course, it does feel like you're kind of toiling and you don't know—and how beautiful to have that thought and that example of your own life, those two guys. Bless them. And you know, now that you are about to depart, is there a particular message that you want to leave with Salvationists in the Canada and Bermuda Territory? A final thought or word?

General Lyndon Buckingham

You know, I think that we've been sharing this message about Jesus as our compass, this concept of not losing sight of the fact that we are in mission and ministry for the king. I think that we need to encourage the territory to remember that Salvationists, on the whole, are enthusiastic about sharing the good news. Salvationists are about living a life that brings honour and glory to God. The way we live free, Holy Spirit-filled lives is a testimony in our day that is powerful. We shouldn't underestimate that. And we are a serving people. We are a serving people. And I think that's all of us, not just some of us, not just the professionals. We're all about this. And I think if we can keep that focus within the territory, right across the board—we're about looking for opportunities to give God glory, we want to live in a way that brings him glory, and we want to serve in a way that brings him glory—if we can hang on to that, then the Lord will continue to use us in the territory in powerful ways.

Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham  

And I think I would want to finish by saying and encouraging all of those who've been moved by the Spirit—we've seen some beautiful moves of the Holy Spirit over the course of the weeks that we've been here, people coming and kneeling and, you know, rededicating their lives. And whatever that's meant for them in those moments, I would want to encourage those people to just hold on to that and to keep going deeper with it, not to just let it be a high moment of, “Well, that was great a week ago, but now I'm back at work or I'm back at school, and I'll just let that go,” you know? “It was just an emotional piece.” No—the Spirit spoke, and keep digging into that. What was the Spirit really saying in those moments? What was it that you were, the work that you were doing with the Holy Spirit in those moments, the transaction that was taking place? And to keep going hard after that and to keep following Jesus with everything that they've got.

General Lyndon Buckingham

Stay faithful, press in and press on.

Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham

Yeah.

Kristin Ostensen

I love that. Well, thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for visiting us for two and a half weeks. What a journey you've had—literally thousands of kilometres. And it's just been such a joy to experience your leadership and your generosity. So, thanks again, so much, and God bless you as you continue on to your next destination.

General Lyndon Buckingham

Thank you very much. God bless you, too.

Commissioner Bronwyn Buckingham

Yes.

Kristin Ostensen

Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Salvationist podcast. You can find a link to all the live-streamed services from the tour in the show notes. For more episodes, visit Salvationist.ca/podcast.