Serving in Bangladesh, with Lt-Colonel Elizabeth Nelson, Territorial Commander

Bangladesh is a country of about 178 million people, located on the coast of the Bay of Bengal just east of India. The Salvation Army has been active there since 1971 and has many thriving ministries, including Sally Ann, a handicraft company that gives vulnerable women an opportunity to gain skills and an income. 

Lt-Colonel Elizabeth Nelson, a Canadian officer, is currently the territorial commander in Bangladesh. And on this episode, she talks about the Army’s ministries there, what it is like to be a woman in Bangladesh today, her own spiritual journey and more.

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Transcript

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Kristin Ostensen 

This is the Salvationist podcast. I’m Kristin Ostensen. Did you know that The Salvation Army is active in more than 130 countries worldwide? We truly are a global Army. And for those who feel called to serve outside their home territory, there is a literal world of opportunity. Overseas service is not just for officers, by the way! In fact, our guest today, Lt-Colonel Elizabeth Nelson, originally went to Bangladesh as a soldier, and is now the territorial commander there. Bangladesh is a country of about 178 million people, located on the coast of the Bay of Bengal just east of India. The Salvation Army has been active there since 1971 and has many thriving ministries, including Sally Ann, a handicraft company that gives vulnerable women an opportunity to gain skills and an income. Elizabeth talks about the Army’s ministries and what it is like to be a woman in Bangladesh today, plus her personal journey and more.

Hi Lt-Colonel Elizabeth. So great to have you here on the Salvationist podcast today. 

Elizabeth Nelson

Good to be here. 

Kristin Ostensen

Well, you're currently serving as the territorial commander in Bangladesh, but I know this is not your first experience in the country. Can you tell us a bit about your history of service there?

Elizabeth Nelson

Well, it's kind of a long history. I started way back in 1994. I went with two friends. We were soldiers, and we had this desire to work overseas together as a team. And so we applied to The Salvation Army, and they allowed us to go to Bangladesh. And so I went there to help start the work with women in the brothels of Old Dhaka. It was an HIV/AIDS project at the time, and ended up serving for five years and loved it, learned a lot. And during that time, the Lord kind of reminded me of the call that he had on my heart to be an officer that I received as a child. And so I returned to Canada, knowing that I needed to do a little bit of work to earn some money so that I could go to training college. And then as soon as I was commissioned in 2003 as a Believer, I returned to Bangladesh as the projects officer and served another eight years in Bangladesh. And after leaving to serve at IHQ, in 2015, I was again appointed back to Bangladesh as the chief secretary, and I was shocked to be honest. I was not expecting that. But it was interesting—as I was preparing to leave IHQ and I was going to go on some furlough, my mom was diagnosed with cancer, terminal cancer, and was given three to six months, and it was a huge shock for our family. And I just remember getting on the plane and saying, "OK, Lord, I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm just going to trust you for the days ahead. And thankfully, you know, the Army was very gracious, and I asked if I could please stay home to be with my parents, so that I could journey with my mom. And so that appointment was rescinded, and I stayed home, was able to spend nine months with my mom, and then served in Canada for several years. And then I let the Army know I was ready to serve again internationally. And so, the call came in 2023 saying I was appointed back to Bangladesh as the TC. Again, a shock because I wasn't expecting to come back again. 

Kristin Ostensen

No?

Elizabeth Nelson

I figured: you've been here twice, maybe there would be somewhere else that I would go. But it's been great.

Kristin Ostensen  

Well, if anything, I think you were the perfect person because you have so many years of experience there. So, you said, obviously, the call was a bit of a shock, but what did it mean to you to come back to the country again, and to have this leadership position after having so many years of service already?

Elizabeth Nelson

You know, I love Bangladesh, and to come back was an amazing privilege. And I was excited about coming back. But honestly, I think, personally, I struggled because I didn't feel adequate. I had never had a senior leadership position before, and I was thinking, Wow, has the Army made a mistake here? Because I wasn't sure if I could handle the responsibilities, because there's a lot of responsibility on your shoulder as a TC. And so there was this mixed reaction—excitement, but also kind of fear and trepidation of what was going to happen and how was I going to do in the position.

Kristin Ostensen

Well, that's understandable. And, of course, now you're three years into it, so that's a pretty amazing feat already, and it's going well. And I'm wondering for our listeners, can you describe, how would you describe Bangladesh as a country and a culture?

Elizabeth Nelson  

I love Bangladesh. It's a beautiful nation. It's beautiful physically. There's lots of greenery, the paddy fields. The people are beautiful. They're creative. They're hardworking, very hospitable, very kind, and very resilient. This is a nation that has had a lot of challenges and disasters and political upheavals and violence, but they're resilient. They continue to grow and to develop as a nation, and they're very proud of their history and fighting for their independence. And it's also a place where there's a lot of opposites, right? There's a lot of wealth, but a lot of poverty. You know, there's some great opportunities, but there's, at times, a lack of access to those opportunities, and so yeah. It's a growing nation, it's a growing community, it's a culture that values, you know, the community and the community voice, and very strong on supporting each other. I've learned a lot from being here, from being with the people, working with them. It really has, for me, put into perspective what my priorities are, right? And really has deepened my reliance on God. This is a place where you can't necessarily depend on systems—the healthcare, the police, the legal systems, sometimes government processes—and you need to trust in God. These are people who pray and ask God to do what seems to be impossible. I remember times with the Army where we thought we were going to be kicked out because of sharing the gospel, and we just had to pray and ask God to do miracles in our midst, right? So for me, this has just been a place where there's incredible beauty, but also there's a lot of challenges.

Kristin Ostensen  

Well, you've started to touch a little bit on the sort of religious context there and I'm wondering if you can describe The Salvation Army in Bangladesh. I mean, you mentioned almost getting kicked out. So, I think there's a lot to unpack there. So yeah, let's get into that.

Elizabeth Nelson  

Well, the Army is small in comparison, probably, to other churches, and Christianity is a very small minority in in the nation. And so The Salvation Army has been here from the beginning, and a lot of our work has been community development, practical support for communities. We're all about integrated mission, right? It's not just about teaching about the love of God, but also practically helping our neighbours, supporting them in whatever way we can. Through the years, we've done education, healthcare, various community development projects with farmers and with community groups, helping families earn income through some small loans where they can start their own businesses, or buy a goat, or buy a chicken, and just bringing about change because of the variety of challenges that are here. And so I guess, as an Army, we, too, are resilient because there have been a lot of challenges that we faced. It's interesting, even amongst the Christian population, we haven't always been accepted. We've kind of been seen as this cult, but slowly, as they've gotten to know us and our doctrine, they realize that we are part of the Christian church. I would say we have some amazing, passionate officers and soldiers who love the Lord, and especially we have a great young generation that's coming up, and they have such a burden for their friends, and they want to see how they can, in creative ways, share the love of God, share the gospel with their friends in this community. It's a growing Army, but we definitely have had very practical challenges. It's hard to raise funds, and there is persecution against the Christian church, and so it's not easy always to do work, and we have to be very wise in what we do. I'm excited about what God is doing. I'm excited to see what God will continue to do in the years ahead, because there is such potential in this nation that really desperately needs the Lord. 

Kristin Ostensen  

Yeah, I would love to hear more about where you have been seeing God at work, and anything you can share, I'd love to hear more about that.

Elizabeth Nelson  

My experience has been that there are many people who are born Christian, right? They've been born in the Christian family. They've grown up in the church, and they have learnt to do things in a certain way. But to articulate that they have a relationship—a growing, changing relationship with God—is not always there. They haven't learnt what that means, and how to pray and to experience God. And so in these spiritual life development gatherings that we've had with officers, to encourage to do something like the prayer of examine, or to be still and to do some lectio and to journal, and to hear the testimony of officers sharing how they have encountered God in a way that they've never encountered him before. One person said, "You know, I always have been teaching people in the corps that prayer is a conversation with God,” and after we did the prayer of examine as a group, he said, "I actually felt like God was talking to me, and I was talking to God.” He was so moved by it. And out of these gatherings, officers are igniting this passion, this fire within them that has probably been dull, and, for some, has never been there. And they're doing Bible study with their kids, and they're making sure they take time to be still and to really read Scripture—not just read it and say, "Check, I've done it.” But, “What is God trying to say to me? What is he teaching me through this Scripture?” And so that's exciting. When I see kind of eyes open up and they get excited about their encounter with God, I get excited. The Army's involved with a lot of projects, community development projects, and so just seeing people's lives change through that. The big thing for me, I think, is Sally Ann. Sally Ann, interestingly, was started many, many years ago when I was working with the women in Old Dhaka who were wanting to leave the brothel, to give them a skill to learn how to embroider and to make various crafts. We were then able to sell those, and so it's a growing fair trade handicraft company that we do various products that are sold. Probably 85 percent of our products are sold internationally through OTHERS, which is The Salvation Army global entity that handles these products. And so, we sell to Norway, the U.S., U.K., some to Canada, various territories, and we're very excited about how that is growing, and we are earning some funds through that. But it's more than the products, and it's more than just the money. It's the groups. It's the women in the communities that, where their lives are being changed and impacted because of being connected with Sally Ann. And it's a little thing, but to work with women in these communities, to give them a skill to allow them to earn an income while they are still at home, being able to care for their children and their families, changes their lives dramatically, and it helps them feed their children, send their children to school. There are stories of, you know, their children have now gone to university, something that their generation was never able to do. They speak about the fact that they have a voice in their family now, right? They are more valued as women because they earn an income. There is dignity that they are given now. And we've also noticed that, through these groups, through the engagement with these women, there is an impact on trafficking of women because there is not the same need to somehow—“OK, we got to send our daughter off,” or “We've got to send them out somewhere to get a job,” and they can be taken advantage of. So, the fact that they can earn an income, stay at home, and still have an impact on their family is huge. They would also say that there's a decrease in family violence, because your wife is earning and supporting your family, it is helping the financial burden of the family, right? And so, the husband doesn't carry that burden alone, and so there is less violence against wives because she does earn funds, she does contribute. And so, for us, these are great benefits, or the impact of that is much more than just the money that we're earning, right? We are seeing change in community, we're seeing change in families. And that is our hope through Sally Ann. And so we're seeing it expand, and I'm really excited about what God is going to do. Again, where in some of our corps, and so as we work through the corps with these women, they come from all walks of life, from all religious groups, and so we have this opportunity to show the love of God practically through this Sally Ann work. And the officers have a chance to come alongside all these women and to be a friend and to be there when difficult times happen or challenging times happen. And, you know, for these women to say, "Please pray for me,” is a beautiful privilege and opportunity for our officers. And so, we just see that Sally Ann, yes, it's a company, but it's so much more. It's bringing hope, it's bringing dignity, and changing lives, changing communities through their work. It's lovely. It's exciting.

Kristin Ostensen

I'm wondering if you can talk a bit more about what it is like to be a woman in Bangladesh today.

Elizabeth Nelson

It's definitely not easy to be a woman. They are not always as valued, not seen as enough as men. Women are definitely more at risk, especially if you're single or you're alone. It was explained to me once that, as long as a woman is connected to a man in some way, your father, your husband, even a son, gives you some protection, and you aren't as vulnerable. So, to be on your own, you are at risk, and girls are seen as lesser than compared to their brothers. Even these days, unfortunately, it is easier to marry off your younger daughters just because it's seen as an economic thing, right? Why invest in a girl who's going to be married and move off to someone else? You invest more in your sons. There haven't been as many opportunity for women educationally, and even within careers and studies, very difficult to get in. Even in this country where women have been, you know, political leaders, in the everyday life in villages especially, women are not given the same kind of value as men. And I think that's why Sally Ann has been helpful because they have given women a bit more of a voice. Within the Army, I'd say we've really pushed the boundaries when it comes to gender issues. We have appointed women as corps officers on their own, while their spouse has held an appointment either at THQ or DHQ. For some men, this has been a challenge, and others have welcomed it and really encouraged their spouses. It's been difficult, even for some women, because it's almost like they haven't had the chance, and now they need to kind of step into it and say, "No, no, you can do it,” and trust and allow themselves to flourish with the gifts that God has given them, right. And we recently appointed a married woman as the training principal, and she's very capable and she's qualified to do the position. But it has been a stretch for some men to accept her, and unfortunately, she has had to deal with some unkind comments, and maybe sometimes the men aren't even aware of what they're saying or doing. But just because men at times feel that women can't do certain tasks, that somehow they're not able to fulfil an appointment on their own. So we're encouraging all officers, that they all should be developing, they all should be flourishing and being the men and women that God has created them to be, so that we should value everyone's contribution. And so, yeah, it's been very interesting to kind of push those boundaries here, and to see some women step up and flourish, and some still hesitant, and some—unfortunately, we still have some husbands who are not always supportive and maybe threatened, right? So we're trying to encourage the Army to move in this direction, so that we can also be an example for others, right? So that our soldiers, our women who are growing up, these girls can see women flourishing and doing some amazing things in in these various roles, right? And not just the typical traditional roles that women have held.

Kristin Ostensen  

Yeah, people need those role models, and they need the opportunities. And of course, you are a role model yourself, being the territorial commander as a woman. And I'm wondering if you have experienced any of these things in your own personal life as the leader there. Or have you found have you found that things are starting to shift for you as well? Because you've now been in the role for three years. I don't know if you're the first woman TC there.

Elizabeth Nelson

No, actually, I'm not. There has been another single woman who was here for several years. But I have to be honest—I have never encountered an issue at any time that I've been here. I think I've always been respected. I've always been allowed to function in my role. But I think it's because I'm a foreigner, and so somehow being a foreigner and yes, a woman, I'm being given more value than my sisters who are Bangladeshi. And I think also the fact that I have a long history here—that has helped because they know me, and they know my capacity. They know my heart for God and my heart for them. And so I think they have been very respectful and honouring, knowing that I come and that I'm here and I have the ability to do what God has called me to do here, right? Having said that, I would also say that as I've interacted within my zone, I can't say that I've seen that for my fellow women officers here. And so I think there's still a journey in this zone, in this area, allowing women to take on leadership positions to be valued and to not always be placed in traditional women's roles.

Kristin Ostensen  

As you're looking forward to the future and your future leadership in Bangladesh, what is kind of the vision that you have for the territory as territorial leader? How do you think God is leading you in leading this territory?

Elizabeth Nelson 

We've got some beautiful officers who are passionate and sacrifice and work hard for the Lord in ministry here. And for me, I want to see them continue to learn and grow and build their capacity so that they can lead the territory themselves. And their the journey has not always been easy. I want to see the officers and the soldiers grow and flourish, and to experience God in in his fullness, right. For me, it's about people encountering God and seeing their lives change for the good. It may not be that everyone will have lots of money and big houses and prosper in that way, but they will have the joy of the Lord. They will be that light in their communities that they can be. This is a very dark country in many ways. There are millions of people, literally millions of people here, who need to know more about God's love and the fact that God loves them and wants to be in relationship with them. And I think we have such an opportunity to show that love to others, to live it out, just to be his ambassadors, right? And so that is my hope for my friends here is that they would shine brightly and strongly for God here, knowing that God will provide what they need, knowing that God will protect them, that God will use them. 

Kristin Ostensen

And how has God been working in your own life as you’ve served in Bangladesh these past three years?

Elizabeth Nelson

I have learned a lot. I think, especially even in these three years, having the responsibilities of a TC, you know, I think I came in—I'm a fixer by nature. I like to fix things. I like to help people. I don't like injustice, and I don't like seeing people hurt. And so, my inclination is, how can I help you? How can I make things better? And when I came into this position, and there were so many challenges, I have to be honest. And many days it was overwhelming. Where do I start, Lord? There's so much to do. And the Lord, sort of impressed on me that: Liz, you're not going to fix it all. You're going to have to just be comfortable with the mess. There's going to be messes around you. What I'm inviting you to is, to be still, to trust me, and I had to learn to just be responsive to what God was calling me to do, and to do those things he wanted me to do, and not to try and do it all myself, or to try to figure things out myself. And I was even talking with a fellow officer today, and we were talking about that and the fact that, you know, Scripture, where it says, you know, God, I do not know what to do, but my eyes are on you. The whole, you know—when there's a storm, you know it's easy to look at the storm and to see all the troubles, but if we keep our eyes on the Lord, right? You know, like Peter, I can, you know, I won't sink. He will help me through the storm, in the storm. And so it seems like such a simple lesson, but to be honest, these years have really taught me again: I just have to trust the Lord every day. My eyes have to stay on him. I have to be still. I have to learn to just do what he's calling me to do, and not to try and get out of and do it all on my own, right? And so, I'm very thankful. He's very patient with me, and he has continued that work that he started in me many years ago. And so it's just a great privilege to be here. I think I get so much more than what I'm able to maybe do and to contribute here. It's been a huge time of growth and learning for me, and yeah. So I'm very grateful for any time that the Lord gives me here.

Kristin Ostensen

Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing those encouraging words. You know, we all need to be reminded of that, really, truly, no matter where we're serving and whatever capacity, where in our relationship with God. And I just want to thank you so much for sharing with us today. It it's really fascinating to learn about how God is at work, even in challenging circumstances in this beautiful country of Bangladesh. And we will be thinking of you and praying for you as your home territory as you're serving there.

Elizabeth Nelson

Thank you very much. It's been great to be able to chat and share a little bit about what God's doing here.

Kristin

Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Salvationist podcast. If you’re interested in supporting the Sally Ann program in Bangladesh by purchasing items through OTHERS—Trade for Hope, see the link in the show notes. For more episodes of the podcast, visit Salvationist.ca/podcast.