Ethical and Mindful Group Travel with Laura Ericson

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 6: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Laura Ericson.

Laura Ericson traded her 14-year career in higher education in 2021 to start a group travel company after a divorce that became her unexpected catalyst for rediscovery. She's not just a traveler – she's a cultural bridge-builder who ventures beyond tourist hotspots to shine light on misunderstood destinations like Cuba, Kenya, and Colombia.

Since taking the leap into entrepreneurship, Laura has guided over 250 solo travelers through transformative journeys across nine countries. Her childfree lifestyle allows her to fully dedicate herself to creating authentic adventures that many only dream about. As a writer, content creator, and impact-focused travel curator, she designs experiences that don't just cross borders – they break down barriers. Her mission is to help others discover the world's most fascinating places through a lens of authenticity and intention, while creating positive ripples in every community she touches.

Christine and Laura discuss:

· Group travel and what makes it so special

· How travel designers approach creating mindful travel experiences

· The magic in being uncomfortable and what that brings to our growth journey

· Breaking down stereotypes and building connections in travel

Join Christine for this soulful conversation with Laura Ericson.

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To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website. 

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Learn more about Camp Lola Whiskey, the summer camp for adults, here!

Subscribe to the Type 2 Travel Podcast at https://www.lauraericson.com/podcast.

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Laura Ericson (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.

Transcript

Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel Podcast. , I am your host, Christine, and I am so happy to be jumping into this episode today with Laura Erickson. Um, she's someone who I have crossed paths with on the internet forever. Um, and then. Just recently we started bumping into each other at, , different online panels and events, and I'm so happy to have you join me for a full conversation instead of trying to piecemeal a conversation in between other conversations and that everyone gets to listen and hear from your expertise.

So thank you so much for joining me, Laura.

Laura: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.

Christine: Um, uh, just as a quick side note, because I think it was funny and relatable, um, as we were hopping on to prepare for this conversation, Laura and I were talking about all the things that previous me, uh. Does for us, um, in our, like, when we're really excited and we're sure we can handle everything and we schedule everything.

My whole last week was scheduled by previous me and I'm not very grateful to her. Um, you're having one of those moments where you're like, wow, that was such a great idea. Um, but I think this is so relatable. So I just thought I would start there and be like, wow, how do we do this? Uh, how do we navigate what previous me creates for us, and can we even create boundaries against her?

Laura: Yeah, pre previous me is generally my enemy. Um, when it co, at least when it comes to work, like she's just way more ambitious than real me is.

Christine: Yeah. Um, previous meet, last week scheduled painting my daughter's room the first week of school, um, meeting with dance directors, scheduling all my podcasts, editing a solo show and like five other things, and I don't understand what she was thinking. She clearly had lost her mind.

Laura: Yeah, I, I consider myself to be someone who has a pretty good like internal compass and clock and like a good concept of time and how long something will take and how long it takes to get places. I think that's part of travel, right? You like, you're good with direction, you're good with time. I am not good at like.

Estimating how long it's gonna take me to do actual work. Like I, I should know by now, it's gonna take two to three times longer than whatever I think it's gonna take. And I should just plan for that. And it doesn't matter how many times I do it, I still am just like, we'll figure it out. It's gonna be fine.

And it, and it, and it does work out. But yeah, I'm, I'm always wrong. Previous me always sets me up for failure.

Christine: Yeah, I think she's being dismissed from both of our payrolls. Well, to begin our conversation to actually get started on the track, we were meant to start on, um, I'm gonna give, , you a moment, Laura, to actually introduce yourself even though we just jumped in. Um, and tell my listeners a little bit about who you are and the work that you do.

Laura: So my name is Laura Erickson. I am, uh, from Eau Claire, Wisconsin, and I have a group travel company called Laura Erickson Group Trips. Um, and I focus on offering, um, culturally immersive positive impact travel experiences around the world. So small Dr. Small group travel. I'm also, um, a writer photographer, Joan Pilot, content creator, and I just started a podcast as well, and excuse my voice, I lost my voice over the weekend.

We had my adult summer camp this weekend, and we were having way too much fun and, and I was yelling through a megaphone the whole weekend like a camp counselor does. So I apologize if my, my voice sounds a little scratchy.

Christine: Yeah, we all get the Kathleen Turner version of your voice. If you are even someone that can, can know who that is and what that means. That always is what I call my sick voice. And I feel like I have that cool, gravelly, gravelly voice.

Laura: my voice is always a little bit like this. Um, but it's, it's definitely worse today.

Christine: Yeah. Well, I can't wait to talk a little bit about your summer camp. I have that slated for the end of our conversation. Um, but to start, um, it was really fun. You and I got to meet, I guess. Kind of meet me on a panel conversation that we did with, uh, Sahara Rose Devore for the Travel Coach Network. And it was supposed to be three of us talking, and then you and I kept being like, well, actually I'd like to just comment on what Laura said, or, and so I knew that we were to be in for a great conversation at some point.

So, um, I, I can't wait to talk a little bit more about mindful travel and impact travel and all of the things that really get us excited about what travel can create. Um, but before we go there, I think it would be helpful to know a little bit about your background and how you found your way to travel personally and professionally, and really what was the catalyst for starting the business that you have started.

Laura: Yeah, I traveled a lot as a kid. I was lucky to have parents who, um, took us to different places. We went to other countries as a young child, I remember specifically going to Mexico multiple times, but also, um, a little bit more off the beaten path like Venezuela, which I always say now that's like a no-no country.

Um, and I checked that one off my list when I was 12 years old. Um, and that got me into, um, foreign language. So, you know, I always say when kids are young, you're kind of forced into foreign language. And I would say 90% of kids like do the ba bare minimum and then they're done. I loved it. I loved Spanish.

And so with that, I loved Latin culture and it, I always just had a very genuine interest in that. And so that led me to going to college and ma uh, majoring in Spanish, living in Spain. So I always kind of had like this underlying background with travel and, and other cultures. Um, I taught ESL. Um, after college, but.

As far as personally, like how I ended up in, in this situation, I was married for an, in a long-term relationship for 10 years. I got a divorce in 2018 and it kind of blew up my life. Um, I blew up my life, I should say, and I decided as I was kind of reinventing myself as this new single person in my late thirties was evaluating like, what do I want?

To be different. And as I looked back on my life, I was like, I used to travel a lot. I used to study abroad in Spain and do all these crazy things. And, and then when I was married I looked, I was like, we've been to Mexico like 20 times. Like we just did the same thing over and over and over and over. And so I, I really wanted to travel more, but I wanted to travel to places that.

Weren't, you know, mainstream, conventional tourist destinations. And with that, as a female, I found that nobody wanted to go with me. Everyone was kind of like, why would you wanna go to Turkey? Or like, Ooh, Columbia. Isn't that dangerous? Like everyone kind of like, like. Gasped a little bit when I said where I was, where I was wanting to go, and I personally didn't necessarily want to travel solo.

I had done a solo trip to Australia and um, I was so glad I did it. I think everybody should try solo travel, but I also realized it wasn't really for me. Like, I can do it, but I prefer to be with somebody even if it's with a stranger. And so I, I was struggling to find somebody to go on these trips with me and I found a girl in a Facebook group.

It was actually a breakup group, ironically. And we had been dumped on the same day. And so we kind of bonded over that. And I told her that I was going to Columbia and I was really just looking for somebody to accompany me and that I had the whole trip planned out and I knew what to do, but I just didn't really wanna go alone.

And she was like, yeah, I'll go with you. So I met her in the Atlanta airport. She joined the trip with me. I planned the whole thing out and she was like, this is amazing because. I got to do all of these things that I never would've done for myself. I never would've even thought to go to a place like Columbia and now like I've had all these travel experiences that like I never would've had on my own, like travel bucket list, if you will.

And that really got me thinking of like, okay, if I could do this for her, I could do this for other people. And I think what started as a. Maybe semi selfish endeavor at the beginning of just like, I wanna travel, I wanna do this, I wanna do that. Um, very quickly I realized like, this goes far beyond me. It goes, it extends to, obviously to all these people who are traveling with me, but then even further into like all these places that we're going and how we can impact them in a more positive way.

So if we're going to be going to these countries, and, you know, I think there's always like an element of taking with travel when you're, when you're going to these places and you're consuming and you're taking up space, if you will, that we should be doing something to give back as well. So I, I worked in higher education for 14 years and I had a, this was 2020.

I just had a moment of like, all right, everyone is kind of like calling it quits on everything right now. So now's the time. And I, I really was like, this is now or never for me. I'm almost 40. I don't have kids, I'm single. If I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this now. So I put in my 30 days notice at my 14 year career and just said.

I am starting a travel company and everyone thought I was insane. Um, I didn't have a business name, I didn't have a website. I didn't have public social media. I didn't have followers. I had nothing other than an idea. And I was like, you know, if I just like force myself to figure this out and not have the job to fall back on, I'm gonna figure it out.

And luckily I was right. And I did. Um, so that was four years ago. And, um, now I'm, I'm starting my fifth year and in my business of group travel.

Christine: Um, well, I love the idea that you thought that your business was selfish because I think so many people that start businesses start the business they need, but like nothing is ever for one person. Right?

Laura: Right.

Christine: all of these elements that you were pulling on serve other people, and I know. Also, I think when you have such a deep connection to like the quote unquote pain point or the why something needs to exist, you can really create something meaningful for other people that have a similar, are having similar experiences or looking for the same things because it's deeply personal.

And I feel like the women that I've talked to how have businesses that came out of like one of those spaces really create something powerful and meaningful and successful because they're, they are really just, they're, it's a part of them. It's literally a part of them. So I, I think that selfishness, because that's what so many of us would call it actually is the magic for what we're creating.

And you know, that might be some, someone who really wants to create. Travel that supports, you know, animal wellbeing because of some experience they've had or, you know, whatever it is, it's that personal tie that you really bring to it. So I, I just love that you mention that because I, I, I often say the exact same thing that like, I selfishly create these trips that do X, Y, Z, but yet that's the thing that makes them so perfect for the other people that are looking for similar things.

And like, I think it's beautiful that we can create what we need to heal and then this container then exists for other people. So, um, I think that's one of the coolest things about travel. 'cause it can be, be so. Specific. And so, um, catered toward whoever is looking for that experience because nobody is really, truly looking for the same thing.

When we come down to understanding our why and what we want from a travel experience, which I think is something that's important to both of us, when you look at the broader picture of travel, is really knowing what you're looking for, why you're looking for it, the impact you wanna create, the like lesson you wanna learn, or the experience you wanna have.

All of those things are really important. Um, so I, I think maybe that's a great place to just start is talking a little bit about mindful travel. Um, you and I were on a, a podcast discussion, um, about transformational travel. That's where we initially. Connected. But I think for me, like mindful travel is this broad stroke.

I used to bring together all these things like transformational travel, sustainable travel impact. Um, it just takes all of the pieces that I think we need to think about as we design trips and as we plan trips. So for you, what is really most important? What is the kind of broad strokes that you always start with when you're putting together a trip or thinking about creating something?

Laura: Yeah. I think you and I talked about this on Sahara's podcast about, you know, transformational travel and like, what does that mean? And I think a lot of these things have become almost like buzzwords in the travel industry in particular. And like, um, there's so many definitions of all these things and there's mindful travel, and I think you actually said, you know, I don't really call it transformational travel anymore.

I more refer to it as mindful travel, I think is what you said to me. Um, and I totally agree with that because it, it's, it's kinda like, what does that mean? I think one thing I've, I've I think subconsciously done in, um, designing my trips, which now I think I've leaned into more as an entrepreneur, when, you know, when you start you don't really know what you're doing and you're just kinda like.

You're just doing stuff and you're like hoping you, hoping it's good and you're hoping you're gonna figure it out along the way, but you don't fully trust anything. It's a little bit of imposter syndrome, which we all still have to some extent. But I think what I've leaned into now is that I design my trips truly around how I would want to travel.

Like plain and simple. I, 'cause people will ask me like, how do you pick a destination? Or how do you decide what activities to do or like where to eat? And like all these things. And there's so many opinions out there about like the best of everything and where to go and what to eat and what to do and all that stuff.

But I truly pick. Where I want to go, what I want to do, what I think is fun, what I consider to be good food, what I think to be or consider to be, you know, responsible travel and respectful travel, and all of those things. Like I, I really design it around my own personal experiences and preferences. And leaning into the fact that people trust that I'm a travel expert and that's why they travel with me and that's why they continue to come back on my trips.

They love the things I planned. So instead of considering what everybody else wants to do, I really lean into like what I want to do and my style of travel. And I think then that just attracts those types of travelers. I know that sounds really simple, but that is what I do. 'cause if I went to, I always tell people if I picked destinations based on where everyone wants to go, that would like defeat the purpose of what I do.

What I do is take people to places that are lesser known and lesser discovered and don't get the tourism that maybe they deserve. Whereas of course, like everybody wants to go to Greece and they wanna go to Spain and Italy and all over Europe and all these really popular places. And that isn't really the type of travel that I do.

I'm more drawn to the really obscure random places that sometimes I'm still just learning about. And so, um, that is my goal is to kind of be like that. Extension of, I think what people don't even know that they need or want until they see it. So it, it usually involves me, me going there, having my own experience there and then designing the trip around it.

And obviously going on a solo trip or a small, you know, me and one other person is very different than taking 14 people. And so figuring out how can I, how can I take this, these experiences that I'm having and make this a group experience where it still makes sense, where it's still appropriate. Like, you know, we're taking people to places that you're allowed to have like a, a small to medium sized group, those types of things.

Um, but yeah, it really is just me basing like a, my own travel experience and my own travel preferences and making that hopefully into some type of amazing group experience. And so far, for the most part, it hasn't failed me.

Christine: Yeah, and I mean, that goes back to where we started, right? Like it's this thing, you create what you need for yourself or what you enjoy, and then that's how you best can engage others in it. Because if you weren't doing something true to yourself, you would have a harder time. Selling it or a harder time running it.

Laura: A hundred percent. Like it's funny 'cause with, um, the one time I have listened to people in terms of like, where to go next is Greece. And don't get me wrong, Greece is a beautiful country. I love it. It's, it's gorgeous. It does not quite fit my, like, off the beaten path. Um, Mo if you will, I do do Greece differently.

We don't go to any of the popular places, you know, I take people to lesser known islands. Like it fits the, and that was my compromise. I said, I will do Greece, but we're not going to Santorini, we're not going to Mico, we're not doing any of those like really popular touristy things that you're probably in your mind picturing.

But I am gonna give you a really cool, authentic experience in Greece. And the one time I did that, it has been to date my, my worst selling trip. Like, and I don't know if it's because it's not where I wanted to go and like. My heart wasn't in it the way it is when I'm selling a destination that I'm just absolutely in love with.

I don't know what it is about it, but it's like, it's, it doesn't make sense that the place that everybody over and over and over, like, when are you doing Greece? I had the longest wait list for that trip. Everyone said, when you do Greece, I'll be the first person to sign up. And when that trip came out, crickets, it's like, so that was my lesson.

I'm like, I'm not listening to other people anymore. I'm the expert. And I created this business trusting my own expertise and my own vision and my own desires. And so I'm going to follow my heart and hopefully people will follow me, um, instead of like trying to do what I thought everybody else wanted.

And that's where I, like I said, I really lean into, people are looking to me to decide where to go instead of me looking to them. Um, and to your point about the, you know, the creating the business for yourself. I think, you know, every entrepreneur probably to some extent starts with an idea that solves the problem that they personally had or somebody around them had.

It's, it, that's what entrepreneurship is, kind of like the baseline of, there's some kind of problem you're trying to solve and often it, often it's your own problem or something you accidentally kind of fall into and you realize like you're, you're solving your own problem. And this could help other people.

But, and, and selfish is probably the wrong word, and I think the reason I use the word selfish is because. I think with travel in particular, like we work in this industry that's very like glamorous from outsiders, right? It's, you work in travel, that must be so amazing. You get to go on vacation for a living.

You know, like how amazing, how lucky are you? How this, how that, and I, I get that to a point, but I think any professional traveler would tell you there's this very different side to doing it professionally and there's a less desirable side of doing it professionally. It's not the same as when you get to just go on vacation every few months or once a year.

Um, it's very, very different. Different when you're doing it for work. And so I think people like think when we're, when people who work in travel are just doing this so that they can travel themselves. And I think probably a lot of people, that is how it starts. It's like, I wanna travel for work. I wanna get paid to travel.

You know? And it starts that way. But then I think like along the way people realize, okay, like you can do that. But there's like a lot of. Other stuff that comes with it that people don't see it. People get the tip of the iceberg on Instagram. They get the pretty photos. Um, they don't generally see all the other stuff behind the scenes and all the chaos.

And the fact that I'm like living out of a suitcase and my life is kind of a shit show sometimes, like people don't get to see that side. They just see the photos and they think it must be so nice. So yeah.

Christine: I, I don't even want to look at my suitcase right now, which is weird for me. I didn't know that I would get to that point, but I even just had to take some local trips for, um, some, uh, activities for my daughter. It wasn't even work, but it was just back to, back to back, unpack, pack, unpack, pack, and I, I just was like, wow.

I didn't know I had a limit, but I have just reached it and it then can. I think it's interesting 'cause like you were saying, it's something that so many people love, so many people want the opportunity to do. And then if you feel like if you attach like guilt or frustration to this thing that other people love, then it, it's just like, it's so, you feel so bad then you're like, oh, here I am pouting about packing my suitcase to go to Aspen again this weekend.

And um, yeah. So I think that is such an interesting psychological game that we end up in.

Laura: it is. And I feel like I, um, mentally punish myself all the time for it. 'cause it's like, and I'm sure people do this in all types of careers and things that you have in life, it's like, you know, everyone thinks the grass is always greener. And so, like, when, when you're struggling, and I'm gonna be really honest, like this is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

My life is not easy. Um, I've made it very hard on myself with this career that I've chosen and, and I think when you're struggling on the inside, but all people see on the outside is like the, the glitz and the glam, if you will, of travel and all you get all the time from people is like, wow, like, that's just so amazing and it's so incredible and you're so lucky and wow.

Like it's, I just can't believe it must be so great to be, to be you essentially. You know? And everyone on the other side is like, you are just, yeah. Okay. You know, like it makes me feel like, okay, yep. I just need to. Put on a smiling face and be like, yeah, my life is amazing, but honestly, I, I can, I'm not that person.

I'm very real with people, so I'm just like, travel's amazing. Um, I get to do a lot of really cool things, but like, like every other job and every other thing in life, like, there's pros and cons and there's good and bad and like there's the, the pretty side and the ugly side. So don't think that like, my life is perfect just because you see me traveling to, to beautiful destinations.

I think we just always assume like people, somebody else has it better, or that if we only had their life, it would be so easy. When I try to break down to people like what it's like to do this for a living, they're like, okay, yeah, I think I'm just gonna stick to vacations. yeah, I, I think that's a great idea 'cause it takes a special kind of crazy to do what I do.

Christine: Yeah. And I think it's really interesting that this hasn't come up before, um, in all of these conversations that I've had. So I, I wanna just lean into it for a second longer, but I, I think it's like, maybe, 'cause this is one of those careers in my mind I'm liking, um, like linking it to like being an actor or a musician

Laura: I was just thinking that

Christine: Yeah.

Laura: cel, like, it's like being a celebrity. You want like everybody, not everybody, but people want, they aspire to like have this and then how many people do you see that are famous, that are actually happy versus all these people that have mental health issues and drug addiction and you know, all kinds of like stuff because like they thought they wanted this and then they got all the other stuff that comes with it.

And it's very similar. Not that like by any means I'm equating myself to a celebrity, but I'm just saying like, it's kind of that like life people think they desire. And even with rich people, people thought some money, like everyone thinks like, oh, if only I had A, B and CI would be happier. And I, I don't think that is the key to happiness or success or anything like that.

Like it is, it is so much. Further beyond like surface level stuff with your career or money or material possessions, like none of that stuff is, is going to solve whatever we have going on inside.

Christine: Yeah. Um, I agree. Well, I think this is interesting and for people listening who wanna get into the industry, this is the conversation actually. I also try to have it with people, especially a lot of people reach out to me about retreats in particular, that they wanna run retreats. And I'm like, okay, do you wanna be putting manifest together?

Here's how you have to look for insurance. Um, are you going to use, you know, A DMO or do you wanna put all the pieces together yourselves? And then everyone's like, wait, I actually just

Laura: whoa, whoa, whoa.

Christine: up at a hotel and host a retreat. Like, not actually. Plan everything. And so I think it's really helpful to have these conversations because people don't really realize all the things that come together in building it.

Just like I wouldn't realize if I was getting into maybe marketing and

Laura: Mm-hmm.

Christine: you know, being a publicist or something that I think looks really cool. I don't know the minutia or the things in the background that are happening.

Laura: Absolutely. And I, same thing like I group trips, retreats, you know, they're, they're more or less interchangeable when it comes to the planning. And I think what it, it kind of comes back to like, what are people actually looking to do? They wanna travel and or make money traveling. They're not necessarily thinking about like, all the stuff that's wrapped up in that.

And they're, and I tell people sometimes, like, are you looking to, like you said, do all A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and then they're like, no, not really. I just kind, I'm like, maybe you should look into TRO trip and like, and even then, are you ready to sell? Are you ready to put your face out there constantly and feel like you're annoying people and you're selling and you're pitching and you're, you know, hey everybody, like I have this over and over and over and over.

Sales is not fun, um, for certain people. And so I'm like, are you prepared to be doing that? And then they're like. No, maybe I just wanna travel and I'm like, yeah, there's, there's other ways to do what we do that involves travel. And I always tell people like the, I don't, we have such a unique job. Like it's, it's hard to explain it, but I said the, the easiest way for me to explain what I do is like, I'm like, imagine a wedding.

I'm not the bride, I'm the wedding planner. I'm not getting married. It's not my day. I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off, like making sure that the bride and groom are having the day that, that we planned for months. I'm not there to enjoy myself. I'm there to give this experience to them and make sure everything goes off without a hitch.

So like when it is all said and done, I did, I enjoy the wedding, eh, maybe I, maybe I got a piece of cake at the end of the night, but for the most part, I'm not there for the wedding. You know, I'm just there for everyone else to make sure that they have the day they want. And that is group trips for me.

Like I am. Yes, I'm there and I'm involved and I'm of course like having fun moments with everybody, but for the most part, I'm just there making sure that shit isn't falling apart.

Christine: Yeah, it is, it is such a different, uh, the expectation versus reality. I think there's a lot there. Um, well, I did wanna talk a little bit about group trips actually, because I think this is something too that there are a lot of stereotypes around what a group trip is. Um, there are different realities of what group.

I mean, there's like group trips with huge groups. There's group trips where like you and I both offer that are groups are really small, like eight, 12, maybe 15 people. Like if we can't all fit in one. Vehicle that can go on the narrow winding roads that we wanna get them on, then

Laura: Mm-hmm.

Christine: people.

Um, I also love and heard you saying, um, thinking about the capacity of the places we're going and the number of people that's so appropriate to have in those circumstances, um, I like wanted to underline and highlight and sharpie that line because I remember being in, um, a village in Guatemala and we visited this woman's home and she was a weaver and she was teaching me how to embroider my logo and she was like, oh, this is an experience we can do with your group and we could have 10 or 12 people here.

And I'm looking around her living room and this isn't judging her house or anything like

Laura: Mm.

Christine: 12 people would be so imposing in your home, like, I'm grateful for you to open your doors. How can I meet whatever need it is that the 12 people would be and do it with five people because that's what feels like that would be a more equitable and personal and appropriate number of people to share this experience in your home.

And so I, anyway, I just love that line. It reminded me of that experience where I was like, I, I don't love the power dynamic that, that created. Thinking about that huge mob of travelers coming into this little tiny space and village. So I just said a million things. Let me go back. Group travel. Why, why do you think it's important and how do you, how do you envision it?

And, and why do you think it's valuable to, to travel in groups?

Laura: So like you said, I think group travel has this stigma around it. Multiple stigmas and, and stereotypes. And some of 'em are true for a reason. I mean, stereotypes exist for a reason, but I think there's the group travel that traditional group travel that everyone kind of thinks of is this big tour bus rolls up and you know, 40 people come out with matching t-shirts and there's a guide with a headset and they've got a flag and everybody knows they're there.

Right? Like we know that that kind of group travel. And I think that's kind of what people think of, I think small group travel like you and I do. Where you, like you said, I'm about the same, it's like eight to. 15, 14 has been my max so far. I think I have a 15 person group coming up next year. But, um, like that's kind of my max for the most part.

And I think it's different in that it's, it's more authentic. You can, you can have, like we said, you can fit in different kinds of spaces with smaller groups, um, that you get to have more personalized experiences with smaller groups. People get to know each other. I'm really like, involved in like, I care maybe a little too much about how people get along in my groups.

And so like, I want everyone to feel included. I want everybody to know everybody's name by the end of the trip. I want everybody by the end of the trip to feel like they talked to everybody and they're not like, wow, I've been here for 10 days and I didn't even know that person was in our group. Like, that's not the vibe or the experience that I want.

And so like, that's why I kind of picked those size, those sizes along with the things that you already mentioned with just. What is, what is possible to still have like this really authentic experience and, and allow people to do different things, but not impose on the locals and the places that we're going.

But as far as like why people need group travel, so many reasons. Um, I think just from what, like my own personal experience of like, why I like group travel is just I like meeting other people and I, I don't personally believe that the people you love the most in your life are always the best people to travel with.

I'm just gonna say it, I think., you can like have friends and family that you love at home, but maybe when, when it comes to travel, you're, you don't have the same interests or maybe they're even holding you back. Um, I often find that people aren't traveling because of their partner or their friends or their family.

Their family is maybe flooding their mind with ideas and making them scared. Their partner maybe doesn't want them to travel without them because of trust issues. Their friends just can't get their shit together. And you know, they, they're making all the excuses in the world and telling you like, we're gonna take this trip when, and so you're just kind of waiting.

So. There's just a lot of reasons why people don't travel because of like the people around them, or they don't travel the way they wanna travel or they like, don't go to the places that maybe they otherwise would be interested in going because they're, they're being very heavily influenced by the people in their life.

So I, I think the element of traveling with strangers really opens people up to doing new things, going to places they maybe weren't initially interested in going. And I think, like I just see people open up so much more when they're not around people that they already knew. When people come on my trips with a friend.

They are like two peas in the pod sitting together all the time. They're, they can't be separated, you know, they're talking to each other constantly. Um, when people come alone, even though they're scared, they're so open, they're like, I'm here by myself, so I better make some friends. And so, like, they have, they form these really deep connections with these people that start out as, as strangers and end up being friends.

And so I, I think there's just so many reasons, but I just, I, I think like the idea of traveling to strangers is so scary to people. And it still scares me sometimes when I sign up for a group thing and I'm like. Who the hell am I gonna be with in, in Japan for 10 days? Like, you know, but it's, it's exciting.

Like, who are gonna be my new friends at the end of this? You know, like who, I, I cannot tell you a single trip I've been on where I haven't made a friend that I'm still in contact with. Like, I just think that's the beauty of Go Travel is you, you meet these people who are from totally different walks of life, who maybe at the beginning you're like, uh, we have nothing in common.

And by the end, like, you come up with all these amazing new friends and you've had all these crazy experiences together that kind of bond you for life.

Christine: Yeah, and I think if you look at kind of this idea of using your values and what you're looking for out of experiences to choose the experience, even if you have very different backgrounds, that thing that's most important to you is what's similar. And so then you really, I think you end up connecting with unexpected people really deeply because of, of that.

The way that many people choose these types of group travel experiences. So it is, it is really powerful. I was thinking about this scouting trip I did in Oaxaca. I took my daughter with me and we did, um, a all day group hiking tour. And I was kind of a watching you, if you guys are listening to the podcast, you're not seeing this, but you had your fingers together and you're like moving all around.

And how when people come together, they just stay connected. Um, and my daughter was gone, like we started the hike and I wouldn't see her until we would get to like the next stopping point. And she was, and at the time I think she was. 14 maybe. So she was young and everyone else was adults, and she would be like walking with this person.

Then I'd see her and she'd be like, oh yeah, this person does this in X, Y, Z in this city. And they were talking about this. And then she'd come back the next time and she's like, oh, this person does X, Y, Z and does this. And I was like, wow. I am witnessing literally how group travel like expands your awareness of, you know, what's out there in the world of other people's perspectives of opportunities that are available.

Just because she was having these kind of micro moments with all of these different people she would've never met otherwise. And as a travel creator and designer, like watching her have that experience, I was like, oh, like don't forget, this is the magic that happens when you bring people together. E even when someone's 14 and you know, 47 and they're having these.

Conversations because they're in a shared space that was driven kind of by shared values.

Laura: Absolutely. Yeah, I think, I think people are so scared to join, like the idea of solo travel scares people, but the idea of joining a group solo also scares people because they're thinking like, does everybody know each other? Is every, the one question I get all the time is every anyone else coming along?

Like they think they're the only person joining the group by themselves. And I'm like, no. I'm like, usually like half or more of the group is coming alone. And I prefer people coming alone because of the reasons you just mentioned. I just think people are so much more open, receptive to having conversations with other people and making friends.

And it's like the more people you come with within a larger group, like the more it kind of. Makes the group dynamics wonky. So I, I personally just love the solo, true solo traveler in a group experience. Not that people can't come with a friend or come with their spouse, but I always say like, if you do, this is part of my orientation.

I say, I know you might be coming with somebody, but please, you, you joined a group. You didn't join your couples, solo couples trip. You know, you didn't join your little friend trip, you chose a group trip. So for that, like, please be mindful of other travelers, of course, but also like, remember this is a group, you chose a group experience.

So take advantage of that. Talk to everybody. Sit away from your friend or your partner, have different conversations. I said, your goal should be by the end of the trip to have said you've had at least some kind of conversation with everybody on this trip, and you at least like know who they are and you know, like the basis of their life story.

Like to me, that's a successful group trip versus just kind of like, I think sometimes people sign up for a group trip thinking like, I just want someone to do the planning for me and my friend, or me and my partner. And then we're just gonna like stay together and exist within this group to do all the activities, but we're not really gonna like, care about anybody else.

Like, that's not my favorite. I really, really prefer when everybody's like, open to connecting. 'cause that's, like you said, that's the magic of group travel. I, I always say like the, the travel peer, the travel part itself is amazing. Like what we're doing, you know, what we're, we're experiencing is amazing.

But for me, what always stands out to me at the end of it is not that we hiked a mountain or we ate at this amazing restaurant or whatever. It's, it's these friendships and bonds that were formed and the funny stories and all the funny things that happened like on the trip with those particular people.

It's the people that stand out to me, not the experiences.

Christine: Yeah. Um, it's funny that one of the categories of conversation I have for us, I had breaking down stereotypes and building connections and I was thinking from a much larger lens. But that's really, even within the groups themselves, that's kind of what is happening. Like you're breaking down stereotypes you might have about people in your group and you're building these connections.

So like travel can really foster that in little ways and big ways.

Laura: Absolutely. And you know, when I first started my business, I, at first I struggled with a lot of things, but I struggled with how narrow I wanted my groups to be in terms of like demographics. I was like, do I want only female? Do I want just this age group? And I, I decided I'm gonna keep it open. I'm gonna see how it goes.

Adults, of course, but like, I'm gonna keep it open, co-ed, see how it goes. I can always change it. I can always offer like more niche focused trips, but I didn't want to like pigeonhole it too much or. Like make, or mainly I just didn't wanna alienate anybody or make anybody feel like they weren't welcome.

But what I found with that is like the, the groups I've been the most worried about when I like am putting together the group and I'm looking at the names and I'm looking at the ages and I like the things I learn about them, I'm like, whoa, I don't know how this is gonna go. Those are always the magical groups.

Those are always the groups that I love the most. It's not the ones that are all the same age and like they all have all these things in common on, on the surface that I can see, like they're gonna get along. It's always these like really mismatched groups where I'm like. Oh, I don't know about this. Like those groups, they always end up like beautiful.

Like, 'cause it's these people that you don't think are gonna like gel. And by the end it's like, you know, you've got a 30-year-old and a 60-year-old hanging out together. And it, I don't know, it like, to me that's the best part of it is that these people that maybe you walk in and, you know, we're all of course like judging and making, making judgements on people and assessing whether or not we think we're gonna like them.

And, and by the end, I feel like I, I can find the good in everybody. Like there's, there's something special about everybody and there's things I love about every person that I travel with. And to me that is, that is the, the best part about maybe it, it's, it's forcing you to hang out with people that maybe you wouldn't have chosen for yourself, but you end up loving in the end.

Christine: Yeah, and I think as like the facilitators of those spaces, I don't know about you, but for me, because I love finding those unexpected connections and finding those like shared threads of humanity in the most unexpected places. Like that's at the end of the day what I love in my travel. When I witness that happening amongst my people, then I'm just like, yes, that's all I wanted.

Like like you said, yes, I want you to see X, Y, Z, but like what I really, truly want myself, I want you to have that spark of connection and that spark of humanity. Like that's really why I personally travel and create travel. And so like those are the moments when I witness. It happened that I, again, I'm like, I just wish I could like High five to the universe and be like, did you see that it worked?

Laura: Yeah. And I've also noticed, so I'm 42, so I'm like. I'm kind of like in the middle of, I'm in this weird spot in my life where I'm not young, but I'm not older. And I've noticed, I think women, like women in their fifties and above, like I think they feel a little bit invisible sometimes and a little bit lost.

And I think like society kind of neglects them a little bit or, I don't know. I've just noticed, like I feel, I feel like when I wanted to put like an age limit on my trips, I was like, then I would, I, I could, I could picture the faces and the names of all these women who have traveled with me there were like, these trips have made a difference for them.

And I'm like, but then like these people wouldn't be able to go and like then where is their space? I'm sure there are like trips for women over 50, but I was like, I don't wanna do that. Like these women need this. Like I've seen how much they need it and I don't want to not be that space for them. And I think like all these younger women and, and men.

Can learn from people who are older than them. And I think, like, I don't know, when you're young, you look at older people and you think it's never gonna be you, you, you like, you're like, uh, yeah, they're old, but I, I'm not gonna be old. And like I said, I'm 42. I'm kind of in that, like, I'm not that far off from being 50 and I'm aging and I can feel, I feel like in this very like, middle, middle ground.

And so like, I'm kind of like, I'm still young and cool a little bit, but I also am like getting a little old and like, I like that my age right now is the people I'm attracting, but also that it's attracting kind of people a little bit younger and a little bit older. And then it's kind of bringing them all together.

Christine: Yeah, I love that. And I, I think that, uh, intergenerational exchange is also super powerful when you're traveling and learning and seeing throughout other people's eyes. So I agree. I love like such a wide range for groups because that just adds to that value. Um. Well, one of the other things I wanted to talk to you about is this idea that travel can be uncomfortable.

You. The quote that you shared with me is from Anthony Ward Dain. I asked all my guests to share like a favorite quote about travel as a way to kind of tap into how you see travel or what gets you excited about it. And, um, this particular quote, um, Anthony Bing said, you know, the journey changes you and it should change you.

Um, because it's leaving marks on your memory and your consciousness and your heart and your body. And I think like, this is how I also see travel and that like those moments that aren't beautiful and unco and that aren't comfortable are the most powerful. And as travel designers, it's really hard to pitch that.

To people because they're not gonna say like, yes, I wanna sleep on a wood board in a yurt with no AC and whatever it might be. And you're like, I know that. I can't try to sell that to you. Well, some people, 'cause you and I would probably both sign up for that trip. But, um, like, I guess, how do you think about discomfort and challenge knowing that that really is the thing that activates kind of this magic, and then how do you make that accessible for people who aren't actively looking for the discomfort to grow through travel?

Laura: That's such a good question. Um, I think, like, like you said, we know, I think with our experiences through travel that maybe those moments that at the time were not the best. Like you look back on it and somehow you have like these fond memories or you're like, oh yeah, like we all had to like pee in this outhouse and it sucked.

Or, you know, like in Morocco we were like peeing in a hole in the ground, or I got eaten alive with by mosquitoes in Brazil and like, you know, we, what we might call a travel horror story. Like those are those moments that, that you look back on and they're like, so sometimes kind of your like funny fond moments or the moments where you're like.

Yeah, I didn't really wanna do that, but I did it and I got through it and I made it and I'm still here. And so I know personally, like those are my moments. Um, that's why I just started a podcast. It's called Type two Travel. It's based on type two fun. And if people dunno what type two fun is, it's everything I just described.

It's like those things that kind of suck in the moment. And you're like, it's like running a race, you know, you're like, this sucks. But when you get done and you know you did it and you look back on it, you forget how much it sucked in the moment you're just like, no, actually, now that I have time to think about it, like that was actually pretty fricking cool.

And I think part of that, like why we forget all the struggle in between is because you're left with like the, the accomplishment and the growth and the, I got through something that kind of sucked in the moment, but I made it. Um, I think like those are the things that stick with you. And so that's why I called my podcast Type two Travel.

It's based on my style of travel, which is. Kind of pushing people into discomfort, because sometimes you need to be pushed off the ledge, like I'm afraid of heights. Um, I don't love heights in general, but like, I can do certain things fine, but when it comes to jumping, I need to be pushed. Um, I will literally stand at the edge of something and like sit there and throw f-bombs probably for a while before I finally wouldn't have to be like, okay, somebody just needs to push me off because I'm not gonna do it on my own.

And I feel like that's kind of what my trips are a little bit. Like, I'm kind of intentionally putting people in situations and it's safe of course, but like I'm putting people in situations where maybe they wouldn't have put that on their, their bucket list, but after they do it, they're like, all right, you know what?

Like that was actually really cool. And I never would've signed up for that had I known that that's what we were doing. Um, but I, it is hard sometimes, like in the moment, like, I mean. You put people in a, outside of their normal environment, in a foreign country where everything is different, they don't have their friends and their family, they're, they're uncomfortable in a lot of different ways.

And then you're throwing in all the unpredictable things that can happen and all these new experiences, like people are gonna be uncomfortable. And so like, that's when all the emotions come out and, you know, not, we're not even considering that people are human and we're, they're bringing all their life experiences and whatever they're going through at home, and like, they're bringing that out on the trip.

So like, there's a lot of tears in travel and like, it, it brings up a lot of stuff for people. And so like, I. Another thing people don't think about with, with leading groups, which is like, sometimes you're like counselor and therapist and you know, you're helping people like comforting them. Like it's okay that you're uncomfortable.

I always, I always tell people like, I'm, it's okay that you don't wanna jump. Like, I'm afraid of heights. I'm, I've been 10 hot air balloons at this point and I'm afraid of heights, but I still do it and I'm still here and I'm okay and I'm gonna be here to hold your hand. I'm not gonna make you do it, but if you want someone to hold your hand or give you a little push, like I'm here for it.

So I think like, part of my, my trips is like, I always say like, if I didn't make you do something that made you a little bit uncomfortable or outside your comfortable comfort zone, like, I'm probably not doing my job because my, my trips are designed to push you a little bit. Um, 'cause I think that is where like the magic happens and the growth happens.

Christine: Yeah, and I think it's funny, like on our own trips, I've at least gotten to the point now where I don't necessarily have to wait all the way till the end to like forget and see the benefit. Like I will be in the moment sometime and I'll be like. Right now you're in the growth. It's gonna be done in like an hour.

You're good. Like you can get through this. And like I remember being in a hotel in Peru that had no heat. It was freezing cold. Um, I ended up being the only guest there. The only person that worked there spoke some Spanish, but mostly spoke like a regional dialect. We're trying to communicate. My guy dropped me off and went and stayed like at a friend's house in the village.

I didn't know that's what was happening. And I like had a hot water bottle. I was wearing all my clothes inside the blanket and I was like, we're fine. We're you're fine. You're actually safe. You're like uncomfortable. But all of these things at the end of the day are gonna be the things you're gonna look back at.

And it's so funny to like be doing that in real time instead of waiting to do it at the end of the trip. And then also thinking about my guests and I'm like, okay, what level of discomfort here could they. Would they maybe want to manage? What might they be talking about at breakfast the next morning if we were all having this similar experience?

And then, you know, those are just kind of the fun, I guess, puzzle pieces that we're thinking about when we're putting these experiences together.

Laura: Yeah, and I think of like Kenya in particular. So I just went to Kenya this fall for the first time and I went with, um, a friend and we did the full overlanding experience and we did like the bare bones rustic camping overlanding trip, which I was excited about. I was like, I wanna be in a tent, I wanna be roughing it.

Like that's the experience I want. My friend was like, I don't know that. Like, I want that experience. If we have to do it, I will. But she was a lot more like hesitant, nervous about it, and she had a lot of questions, you know, and like we just, I'm a little bit more like, uh, I think like the weirder the sketchier the better.

Um, but that's not everybody and I get that. But anyway, that was my scouting trip and so like when I came to plan my Kenya trip for this next March that's coming up, I was like, I can offer people this glamping, this beautiful glamping experience. Like they can stay in these like cute rustic lodges or whatever, dome tents.

I can give them that and, and, and it, but I also know that to me, when I look back at that Kenya trip, like what I loved the most was the camping, the sleeping under the stars, the fact that like, yeah, I was a little uncomfortable sometimes and like I couldn't find any of my stuff and I needed to wear a headlamp and like I had to go shower, you know, over here.

And you know, like that's the fun stuff though. Like, I was like, if I just offer this as like a glamping experience, I am like taking away that other experience from people, or at least the choice to have that experience. So I decided, but I'm like, I also don't wanna deter the people who maybe just aren't into that like, rustic camping experience.

So I ended up offering the trip with two tiers and it was like, if you wanna have the. Authentic Kenya camping overlanding experience. Like here's that price and if you wanna have that bougie glamping experience, like here's this trip and this price. And you can sign up for either. And it's so interesting, I'm offering two groups.

The first group, all strangers, all signed up for camping, not single. One of them signed up to Glamp, they all chose camping. And then my second group, which is still open, every single person so far has signed up for glamping. And it's like, they, like somehow like self-selected themselves into like, you know, their preferences.

But um, it's just so interesting how you think you don't wanna be uncomfortable, but then you look back on it and you're like, oh, I would totally do that again. Like, I don't care. Like I'll, sometimes it's like the more uncomfortable the better. 'cause it, you know, in the end it's gonna make the best memories and the best stories.

Christine: I usually try to at least put one, one of those discomfort nights, I guess, into every itinerary. Just 'cause I, I know like people will be even bonding about the fact that they're like, oh my gosh, can you believe that x, y, z night? It is coming up. And then, you know, but it's, it always, like you said, it's the thing at the end of the day that everyone was like, I'm so grateful that you kind of forced me into that space.

So, um, yeah. Here's to us, I guess, pushing people off cliffs. Our new slogans. Maybe not. I am terrified of heights. I will never push

Laura: gently. A gentle push. A gentle

Christine: Yeah. I'm like, I would never be able to do that. My hands start sweating just thinking about it. Um, well before we wrap up, you mentioned your podcast, so just, um, for listeners, make sure you check out type two travel.

Um, we already kind of went through that, but I also wanted to talk about two last kind of things of what you're up to. Um, summer camp that you mentioned you just finished. Um, I wanted just to ask you really quickly about, you know, what you were looking for in that experience, why you thought that you needed to create it and, and now since it's done, you know, what people loved about it.

Laura: Yeah, I'm like fresh off of it. We just got back yesterday. Um, so the idea came from summer camp. As a child, I, I, I look back and like, I don't know, I just, who doesn't wanna be a kid again? Right. And not have any responsibilities. And I feel like we get so caught up as adults in paying our mortgage and prepping for work meetings and like, there's just always all these obligations and I wanted to create this space for people to just like, be free and not have to think about anything else and kind of have everything done for you.

Um, so it's kind of like a. It's another version of what I do with group travel where everything's done for you. But I wanted it to be in the us I wanted it to be accessible to people who, there's a lot of people who tell me all the time, like, I would love to travel with you, but I can't swing a 10 day trip.

Or, I really don't want to. I'm afraid to fly eight hours. Like, I, I don't have that in me, or I can't leave my children that long. So I wanted to like be able to create something more local in the US for people where it's just a long weekend and, you know, just a much more accessible way to experience group travel.

And I wanted to create a way for people who maybe wanna dip their toe in group travel or like, you know, there's people who were scared to come to summer camp. They're like, that's a big thing for me. So imagine like how scared they would be to go on a big international trip somewhere. So there's all these reasons I wanted to do it, but, but yeah.

I was afraid to do it. I didn't think anybody was, I didn't think this was gonna sell. It sold out. And this was my first year and I'm like, I'm selling people on a concept of something that I like. I'm creating as I go. I have no proof of concept. I have no photos to show anybody. I have no reviews. Like this is, I'm going in blind on this.

I literally created it from scratch. It is the hardest thing I have ever done. Um, Lauren, my employee is so amazing and she really pushed me to do it and helped me do it. And it literally took a village to make this happen. But, um, we had this last weekend in the Wisconsin Dells, it was Wisconsin based, so everything was themed around Wisconsin.

Wisconsin has very heavy culture if people don't know that, um, I just had a friend, she's like, wow, I'm from Michigan. And I had no idea, like Wisconsin's got some state pride and they have some culture. It's like another country with how, like specific things are to Wisconsin. And so everything was really built around that.

We had tons of brands that sponsored us. Um, we went floating down the river. We had, um, like a farm to fire dinner. We had a private chef the whole weekend from Morocco who made this amazing food. We had the Cabin Olympics, basically like the world games. So we were playing like flip cup and beer pong and musical chairs.

And so it had all of those like traditional summer camp themes, but in a very comfortable adult way. So there was no struggle in terms of accommodations and, and food. You know, everyone was definitely, uh, catered to. But, um, it was amazing. We had like 30 people. Um, everybody had such a good time. Like we had, of course everything fell apart, um, to some extent.

Uh, we had a horrible rainstorm, basically like tornado level, um, that destroyed some stuff. And of course, in my opinion, like ruined the day. And in everyone else's opinion, they're like, that was the best day. Like we had so much fun in the rain. Um, I had a moment of like breaking down because everything I had worked so hard for literally fell apart.

Like my, my tents crashed down. All my stuff got wet. Everything I worked towards was in puddles and I like had a moment. And then these 30 strangers showed up for me and they were like, what can I do to help? And I was like, I don't need help. And they were like, Nope. Like we're all gonna help. And they literally rebuilt summer camp at the end.

I'm gonna get emotional about it 'cause it was such a beautiful moment. Like they literally like put it all back together better than I could have envisioned. And we had like the most amazing night at the end and I was like, that's why I did this. Like, it was all 30 people who didn't know each other before this, that became like a little camp family.

Um, and we're so looking forward to doing it again.

Christine: Yeah. Oh, thank you so much for, for sharing that. And I love, um, yeah, I love. How that happened, and it's such a, a good summary of everything we've been talking about

Laura: I know well,

Christine: conversation.

Laura: well, what's funny is like, like, like I said, I was really holding it together. Like this was a stressful weekend for anyone who was involved in the planning. And when I did not need a rainstorm, um, and I had this moment, I, it's funny, like the one thing that made me break down is my friend had made me this custom stamp for my birthday, and I had brought it and it says like, Lola approved, and it's like this cute little picture of me.

And I pulled up in this drawer and the drawer is full of water and there was ink everywhere and my stamp was ruined. And I was just like, like, I'm done. Like, I just, I went into my camper and I was like, I need a, I. And then like a few hours later, after everything was put back together, my, my partner was like, if you could have told yourself like three hours ago that this is how this would've ended up.

He was like, like, you would've been fine. And like, that's the thing, like in those moments, we always think everything's falling apart or we're not gonna get through it. But you know, now, like from experience that it always ends up fine and sometimes it ends up better and it ends up in a way that maybe like you didn't even see coming.

And so you just gotta kind of trust that. And so I was like, you said, it, it, it ties into everything we were talking about that like, even at summer camp, we had these moments of discomfort and where things weren't going to plan. And I made people eat shit. They didn't want to eat. We had a blind taste test.

People struggled. They're like, I don't want to eat pickled herring. And I'm like, well, tough shit. Who wants to eat pickled herring? That's why this is a game. That's why you win prizes. Um, but like I, I put people in like spots like that too. And then like in the end they're like, that sucked. But it was so fun.

So yeah.

Christine: That's why, why everybody watches Survivor an amazing race because like we want and don't want that experience at the same time. Um, okay. Well before we wrap up, I just wanted to mention too, um, I was looking on your website at your upcoming trip to Georgia. I just mentioned it 'cause it's on my list of places that I really wanna go.

And for listeners, not the state, but the country, um, in October,

um, yeah, you're not going to Atlanta, uh, really quickly, what are you most looking forward to with that, with that trip and that destination?

Laura: I would say like aside from my summer camp this year, the trip I've been most looking forward to is Georgia. I've been there once and. It was, again, a, a place that was kind of on my list, but like I knew very little about, but something about it kind of pulled me there. And, um, very few people know about it.

Like you said, the fact that we still have to always tell people like, we're going to Georgia, it's a country. A lot of people don't know that. And so like I loved that I discovered this place for myself that like I didn't know anything about and then I was able to show that to other people. And so.

Surprisingly, like so many people are interested in, in just the sheer fact that this is a place that they know nothing about and they want to go to. But Georgia is beautiful and the food is amazing and the wine, okay, I'm a whio. Like that's why I wanted to first go to Georgia. It's the birthplace of wine.

And so I think when people think wine, they go to Italy and they go to Greece and they go to Spain and they go to Argentina and Chile. They never think of Georgia and like Georgia is the birthplace of wine. The wine culture is strong there. So, um, they have amazing, amazing culture and just like so much fun built around like wine and food.

And I'm a big foodie and a big wino. And so like, I, I just love the idea of bringing a group to like share the Georgian Supra and like have a feast and a Toastmaster and all of these things. It's a very, very cool country. I strongly encourage everybody to put it on their list

Christine: Yeah. Thank you. Me too. For as far as like food and nature, when I

see videos and things, I just, I can't, I. Believe. Um, yeah, I just can't believe that it's so under the radar because it seems fantastic. I haven't been but hope to

Laura: And then we wanna keep it like a little under the

Christine: Exactly right. Then 

Laura: it's

that's that hard 

Christine: talk about it. 

Laura: Yeah. Go there, but do it discreetly,

Christine: yeah.

And mindfully, right, there's, there's that opportunity. Um, well, to wrap up, I have a few rapid fire questions, so I'll jump into those. Uh, the first is, what are you reading right now?

Laura: Ooh, what am I reading right now? Um, I'm an audio book person and I usually have like three or four going, then going at the same time. Um. I don't know if I'm actively reading anything right now. I don't know. My brain's all over the place. I have a long list though. Um, I wanna read the second book by Yvonne Chenard.

Um, I think it's called The Responsible Company. The his first one is Let My People Go Surfing. He's the founder of Patagonia. Um, so that my next one that I'm, I've probably started like three times and haven't finished, is the Responsible company by Yvonne Chouinard.

Christine: Thank you. Uh, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?

Laura: Um, a battery pack with all the cords attached to it and a sand cloud towel

Christine: Yeah. I always have a headlamp, which I think is funny and I feel like is totally the signature of someone who works in adventure travel or

Laura: comes in

Christine: in travel. Yeah.

Laura: You ne you never know when you need it.

Christine: Yeah. I always think like, I don't know. I'm like, I always know right where it is too, because I'm like, it's the, if you need it, if you really need it, you can't have to be looking for it.

You have to be able to just like grab it. I don't know. I have

Laura: Because you need, you need the headlamp to find the headlamp, otherwise.

Christine: do need the headlamp to find the headlamp. Um, to me, uh, souring is to travel somewhere with the respect as if you live there. Where is someplace that you would still love to sojourn?

Laura: Oh, um, really, really high on my list right now is Chile and um, Pakistan.

Christine: Hmm.

Laura: Those are like my top two that I'm kind of actively working on. I was supposed to be in Pakistan a few weeks ago and I had to reschedule for lots of reasons, but, um, those are two that are currently drawing me and Kora, Kora, Yemen.

Christine: Awesome. Uh, what do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?

Laura: What do I eat? Is

Christine: Hmm. Yeah. That connects you to some place?

Laura: Ooh, I, I always do a cooking class in every country because you not only get to taste the local food, but you get to interact with the local and hear their stories, and it's all kind of part of the experience. So nothing specific, but a cooking class.

Christine: Yeah. Um, who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out to travel the world?

Laura: Um, my grandmother was always a huge traveler and, um, she was like pretty much on her deathbed and still wanting to travel. And ironically, she passed away. The week I started my travel business, I was about to take my first group to Mexico City for Day of the Dead, and I ended up having to miss her funeral because I had to run my group trip.

Her funeral ended up being on Day of the Dead, and I knew in that moment, like my grandmother would not have wanted me to cry over missing her funeral. She would've celebrated the fact that. I started a travel business and I was getting to celebrate her life in Mexico City, and so I ended up actually getting a tattoo to commemorate it.

So my grandma is always, I feel like she's always with me and traveling along with me.

Christine: Hmm. I'll have to share a story, side note, uh, maybe off camera, similar, similar to that, but thank you for sharing that with me. Um, if you could share an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?

Laura: Oh, easy. Anthony Bourdain.

Christine: Yeah.

Laura: I love, I love him and I'm so sad he doesn't, he isn't around anymore.

Christine: Yeah. I, I think there would be such a group from this podcast that would really have enjoyed and embraced his spirit, um, that still enjoys and embraces his spirit. Um, soul of Travel is a space for celebrating women in the industry. Who is one woman that you admire and would love to recognize in this space.

Laura: That's another easy one for me. I would say, um, Casey Heco, she's actually gonna be my podcast guest this week in my episode that's airing, um, you know Casey,

Christine: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah. Um, I love Casey. I, I look up to her. I think she is super aspirational. She's so intelligent and strong and experienced and wise, and she's older than me and so I, she's, she's who I wanna be when I grow up.

Christine: Yeah. Um, I don't know if we're the same age or not, and I still wanna be her when I grow up, so that's a fair statement. Um, she's gonna be back for a second episode here pretty soon. So, um, thank you for recognizing her and her voice and her vision, and thank you so much for joining me and, uh, rambling through this conversation on Mindful Travel and what, um, really gets us excited inspi and inspired about, um, creating spaces for people to connect with one another and learn about the world.

I really, really appreciate it.

Laura: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It was great.

Christine: Thanks.