{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.8,"body":"Hello and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.8,"body":"welcome to this episode of The"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1.8,"endTime":5.4,"body":"Therapists connects podcast. My"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1.8,"endTime":5.4,"body":"name is Dr. Peter Blundell, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":5.4,"endTime":8.22,"body":"today I'm back interviewing"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":5.4,"endTime":8.22,"body":"therapists about their life and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":8.22,"endTime":11.91,"body":"work in the therapy community."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":8.22,"endTime":11.91,"body":"This episode is an interview"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":11.91,"endTime":15.18,"body":"with Sara Matthews, who is a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":11.91,"endTime":15.18,"body":"senior accredited and registered"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":15.18,"endTime":18.81,"body":"counsellor and psychotherapist"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":15.18,"endTime":18.81,"body":"with the BACP. Sara is a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":18.81,"endTime":22.5,"body":"qualified counseling supervisor"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":18.81,"endTime":22.5,"body":"and trainer, as well as an"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":22.53,"endTime":25.98,"body":"online and telephone counselor."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":22.53,"endTime":25.98,"body":"Sara has headed up bereavement"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":25.98,"endTime":29.01,"body":"services in the voluntary sector"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":25.98,"endTime":29.01,"body":"for many years before finally"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":29.01,"endTime":32.58,"body":"setting up her own bereavement"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":29.01,"endTime":32.58,"body":"counseling practice. She says"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":32.58,"endTime":35.4,"body":"she's passionate about working"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":32.58,"endTime":35.4,"body":"in a properly trauma informed"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":35.4,"endTime":38.25,"body":"way with her clients. And she"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":35.4,"endTime":38.25,"body":"also offers supervision or"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":38.25,"endTime":40.8,"body":"consultation to therapists,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":38.25,"endTime":40.8,"body":"healthcare and allied"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":40.8,"endTime":43.44,"body":"professionals. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":40.8,"endTime":43.44,"body":"listening to the Therapists"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":43.44,"endTime":44.43,"body":"Connect Podcast."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":45.03,"endTime":46.38,"body":"Good morning,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":45.03,"endTime":46.38,"body":"Peter."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":46.44,"endTime":48.12,"body":"Good morning."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":46.44,"endTime":48.12,"body":"How are you?"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":48.33,"endTime":50.43,"body":"I'm alright, thank"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":48.33,"endTime":50.43,"body":"you very much. How are you?"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":50.7,"endTime":53.07,"body":"Very good. Thank"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":50.7,"endTime":53.07,"body":"you. It's great to kind of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":53.07,"endTime":55.2,"body":"finally meet you and chat to you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":53.07,"endTime":55.2,"body":"properly"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":55.77,"endTime":57.54,"body":"Yes, it's really"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":55.77,"endTime":57.54,"body":"nice. Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":57.54,"endTime":59.43,"body":"inviting me. I've always just"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":57.54,"endTime":59.43,"body":"been .. my husband and I have"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":59.43,"endTime":63.93,"body":"just been laughing because I've"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":59.43,"endTime":63.93,"body":"given up working at you know, a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":63.93,"endTime":66.63,"body":"hospice and up until about three"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":63.93,"endTime":66.63,"body":"months ago, I would have been"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":66.63,"endTime":70.02,"body":"out of bed at six o'clock in the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":66.63,"endTime":70.02,"body":"morning and on the row by seven"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":70.02,"endTime":73.2,"body":"but now - an appointment at nine"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":70.02,"endTime":73.2,"body":"o'clock. I've been running"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":73.2,"endTime":75.03,"body":"around like a headless chicken,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":73.2,"endTime":75.03,"body":"trying to get myself sorted."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":75.03,"endTime":79.17,"body":"So.. how quickly I've slid"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":75.03,"endTime":79.17,"body":"into..."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":79.11,"endTime":81.921,"body":"how you've e"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":79.11,"endTime":81.921,"body":"easily transitioned into it! I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":81.986,"endTime":86.105,"body":"love it! That's fantastic. Could"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":81.986,"endTime":86.105,"body":"you tell us a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":86.171,"endTime":90.093,"body":"how you came to be a therapist"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":86.171,"endTime":90.093,"body":"in the first place? What drew"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":90.159,"endTime":91.14,"body":"you to therapy?"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":91.0,"endTime":94.9,"body":"Yeah, two things,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":91.0,"endTime":94.9,"body":"I think. First of all, which is,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":94.9,"endTime":99.7,"body":"will come as no surprise to the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":94.9,"endTime":99.7,"body":"community, I'm sure.. was my own"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":99.7,"endTime":103.66,"body":"story... having therapy myself,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":99.7,"endTime":103.66,"body":"I had a difficult childhood."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":103.66,"endTime":106.93,"body":"There was, there was sexual"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":103.66,"endTime":106.93,"body":"abuse, there was violence. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":106.93,"endTime":111.73,"body":"so I had to grow to a point"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":106.93,"endTime":111.73,"body":"where I was ready to address all"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":111.73,"endTime":114.52,"body":"that. And I did all that through"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":111.73,"endTime":114.52,"body":"counseling. Shout out to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":114.52,"endTime":118.72,"body":"Tyneside Rape Crisis Centre,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":114.52,"endTime":118.72,"body":"which 35 years ago literally"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":118.72,"endTime":122.17,"body":"saved my life, I think. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":118.72,"endTime":122.17,"body":"through my own personal"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":122.17,"endTime":127.84,"body":"experience. And then alongside"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":122.17,"endTime":127.84,"body":"of that, I had quite a mixed"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":127.84,"endTime":131.44,"body":"career, but a lot of it was in"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":127.84,"endTime":131.44,"body":"education and training. And I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":131.47,"endTime":135.88,"body":"ended up working in an alcohol"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":131.47,"endTime":135.88,"body":"rehab, residential alcohol rehab"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":135.91,"endTime":139.36,"body":"and running kind of therapeutic"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":135.91,"endTime":139.36,"body":"groups, for the people who were"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":139.36,"endTime":143.08,"body":"living there. And realising that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":139.36,"endTime":143.08,"body":"I was working way beyond my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":143.08,"endTime":147.4,"body":"competence. And it, looking back"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":143.08,"endTime":147.4,"body":"on it now, I think I had a bit"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":147.4,"endTime":149.98,"body":"of natural ability; I was a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":147.4,"endTime":149.98,"body":"qualified lecturer, so I could"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":149.98,"endTime":152.95,"body":"teach a bit, I knew how to do"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":149.98,"endTime":152.95,"body":"certain things. And I knew"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":152.95,"endTime":155.5,"body":"things from my own therapy. But"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":152.95,"endTime":155.5,"body":"there was a whole load of stuff"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":155.5,"endTime":158.47,"body":"I didn't know. And the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":155.5,"endTime":158.47,"body":"organisation that I worked for"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":158.47,"endTime":160.78,"body":"at the time, which I won't name,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":158.47,"endTime":160.78,"body":"I think they've gone bust, which"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":160.78,"endTime":164.23,"body":"is a good thing. They didn't"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":160.78,"endTime":164.23,"body":"know either, they couldn't"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":164.23,"endTime":167.47,"body":"explain to me what I knew, and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":164.23,"endTime":167.47,"body":"what I didn't know. But I knew"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":167.47,"endTime":170.5,"body":"there were things I didn't know."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":167.47,"endTime":170.5,"body":"And I could feel myself getting"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":170.5,"endTime":175.03,"body":"more and more wobbly. And my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":170.5,"endTime":175.03,"body":"practice was not great. And my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":175.03,"endTime":179.08,"body":"mental health wasn't good. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":175.03,"endTime":179.08,"body":"it came to a crisis point. And I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":179.08,"endTime":182.53,"body":"walked out, I just stopped. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":179.08,"endTime":182.53,"body":"I remember thinking right, well,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":182.53,"endTime":187.06,"body":"this is the time then, now's the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":182.53,"endTime":187.06,"body":"time to do it. Because I've got"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":187.06,"endTime":191.56,"body":"this opportunity. I've got the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":187.06,"endTime":191.56,"body":"space. And I've reached a real"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":191.56,"endTime":194.02,"body":"kind of difficult point in my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":191.56,"endTime":194.02,"body":"own life. So that's when I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":194.02,"endTime":197.59,"body":"started, I think I'd done a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":194.02,"endTime":197.59,"body":"certificate in counseling years"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":197.59,"endTime":201.73,"body":"and years before, but that's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":197.59,"endTime":201.73,"body":"when I enrolled on a degree. I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":201.73,"endTime":204.46,"body":"thought, Okay, I'm going to make"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":201.73,"endTime":204.46,"body":"this happen. And I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":204.46,"endTime":208.42,"body":"learn to do this properly. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":204.46,"endTime":208.42,"body":"for me, the massive massive"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":208.42,"endTime":212.98,"body":"learning, was about myself,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":208.42,"endTime":212.98,"body":"which I think most counselors"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":212.98,"endTime":217.03,"body":"would say. So that's the kind of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":212.98,"endTime":217.03,"body":"backstory I think to how I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":217.03,"endTime":218.23,"body":"trained, certainly."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":218.45,"endTime":220.22,"body":"Thank you. Erm"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":218.45,"endTime":220.22,"body":"so that's really interesting. It"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":220.22,"endTime":222.71,"body":"sounds like you're almost like"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":220.22,"endTime":222.71,"body":"you're finding your way through"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":222.71,"endTime":226.04,"body":"that role. So you had a sense of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":222.71,"endTime":226.04,"body":"what it was, but then there was"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":226.04,"endTime":229.07,"body":"the things that you didn't, you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":226.04,"endTime":229.07,"body":"didn't know. And (yes) there's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":229.13,"endTime":232.76,"body":"something there that actually, I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":229.13,"endTime":232.76,"body":"need more, you know (yes)..."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":232.91,"endTime":236.42,"body":"Yeah. So I knew I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":232.91,"endTime":236.42,"body":"was, I had ability, but I was"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":236.42,"endTime":239.54,"body":"unstable. And I wasn't, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":236.42,"endTime":239.54,"body":"understand anything at all about"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":239.54,"endTime":245.45,"body":"therapeutic frame. I hadn't done"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":239.54,"endTime":245.45,"body":"enough personal development. You"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":245.45,"endTime":248.33,"body":"know, I thought I had and I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":245.45,"endTime":248.33,"body":"hadn't. And it was all of that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":248.33,"endTime":251.87,"body":"stuff. But at the same time, I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":248.33,"endTime":251.87,"body":"was drawn to the work because"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":252.32,"endTime":256.73,"body":"the work had meant so much to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":252.32,"endTime":256.73,"body":"me, and I could see it meaning"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":256.73,"endTime":259.25,"body":"things to other people. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":256.73,"endTime":259.25,"body":"there were flashes of bits where"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":259.25,"endTime":261.83,"body":"I got it right, but lots of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":259.25,"endTime":261.83,"body":"times where I didn't get it"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":261.83,"endTime":266.57,"body":"right. And just didn't hold"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":261.83,"endTime":266.57,"body":"people properly. So yes, I had a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":266.57,"endTime":271.01,"body":"sense of what was going on. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":266.57,"endTime":271.01,"body":"an extraordinary sense of being"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":271.01,"endTime":273.68,"body":"aware of what I didn't know,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":271.01,"endTime":273.68,"body":"which is something I've tried to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":273.68,"endTime":276.68,"body":"kind of nurture and cultivate"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":273.68,"endTime":276.68,"body":"ever since because that's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":276.71,"endTime":280.49,"body":"continuing in the profession,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":276.71,"endTime":280.49,"body":"isn't it? The things I like"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":280.49,"endTime":282.95,"body":"about it, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":280.49,"endTime":282.95,"body":"always stuff to learn. You've"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":282.95,"endTime":285.38,"body":"never cracked it. So I enjoy"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":282.95,"endTime":285.38,"body":"that. I think,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":286.35,"endTime":295.89,"body":"each step I take"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":286.35,"endTime":295.89,"body":"I think oh yeah, I've got more"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":295.89,"endTime":298.95,"body":"clarity here and then there's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":295.89,"endTime":298.95,"body":"more unknown that opens up"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":299.4,"endTime":300.48,"body":"behind that (yes).. You know.."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":301.56,"endTime":303.63,"body":"it reminds me of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":301.56,"endTime":303.63,"body":"when my stepson was a kid we"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":303.63,"endTime":306.81,"body":"used to play endless games of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":303.63,"endTime":306.81,"body":"PlayStation, which I never"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":306.81,"endTime":309.06,"body":"really cracked, but you, you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":306.81,"endTime":309.06,"body":"like get to a level and you're"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":309.06,"endTime":311.91,"body":"like, yeah, look at me, I'm at"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":309.06,"endTime":311.91,"body":"level four. And then suddenly"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":311.91,"endTime":314.76,"body":"you think... oh, okay, but what"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":311.91,"endTime":314.76,"body":"that does is it opens up the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":314.76,"endTime":316.53,"body":"next level, which is mega."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":317.94,"endTime":319.2,"body":"or multiple"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":317.94,"endTime":319.2,"body":"levels."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":319.26,"endTime":322.11,"body":"Yes. That's what"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":319.26,"endTime":322.11,"body":"it feels like. But I do actually"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":322.11,"endTime":325.23,"body":"really like that. And here I am"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":322.11,"endTime":325.23,"body":"at 61. And I feel, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":325.23,"endTime":330.24,"body":"full of energy for what's what's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":325.23,"endTime":330.24,"body":"to learn next. So I like the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":330.24,"endTime":332.13,"body":"fact that I don't find the work"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":330.24,"endTime":332.13,"body":"boring."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":332.0,"endTime":334.01,"body":"Can you tell us"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":332.0,"endTime":334.01,"body":"a little bit about your career"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":334.01,"endTime":335.18,"body":"over that time? As a.. as a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":334.01,"endTime":335.18,"body":"therapist?"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":335.0,"endTime":338.6,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":335.0,"endTime":338.6,"body":"was, I was really lucky. And I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":338.6,"endTime":342.89,"body":"had no sense of how lucky I was"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":338.6,"endTime":342.89,"body":"because I got a paid job, at the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":342.89,"endTime":346.28,"body":"end of year two. I went on to do"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":342.89,"endTime":346.28,"body":"the honors bit of the degree, so"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":346.28,"endTime":349.07,"body":"I still training. But I got a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":346.28,"endTime":349.07,"body":"paid job, I got a paid job, I'd"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":349.07,"endTime":353.84,"body":"done 98 hours of my placement,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":349.07,"endTime":353.84,"body":"and I got a paid job. And I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":353.84,"endTime":358.19,"body":"think I got that on what I'd"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":353.84,"endTime":358.19,"body":"done before, because I got a job"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":358.19,"endTime":360.68,"body":"working as a counselor in a drug"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":358.19,"endTime":360.68,"body":"and alcohol agency. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":360.68,"endTime":363.89,"body":"obviously, I've managed an"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":360.68,"endTime":363.89,"body":"alcohol rehab. I've written care"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":363.89,"endTime":367.55,"body":"plans for this organisation,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":363.89,"endTime":367.55,"body":"blah, blah, blah. So I got it on"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":367.55,"endTime":371.6,"body":"the back of other stuff. And had"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":367.55,"endTime":371.6,"body":"at that point, no understanding"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":371.6,"endTime":375.17,"body":"whatsoever ... came out of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":371.6,"endTime":375.17,"body":"college with no political or"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":375.17,"endTime":379.43,"body":"social understanding of where"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":375.17,"endTime":379.43,"body":"counseling sits in the world. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":379.91,"endTime":384.32,"body":"got this job. So that was, you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":379.91,"endTime":384.32,"body":"know, extremely fortuitous. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":384.32,"endTime":387.8,"body":"it was really hard. I would say"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":384.32,"endTime":387.8,"body":"it was really hard work. They,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":387.83,"endTime":390.86,"body":"they asked us to overbook, they"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":387.83,"endTime":390.86,"body":"got so many DNA. So we were"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":390.86,"endTime":395.27,"body":"booking in seven a day, at some"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":390.86,"endTime":395.27,"body":"points. I know, it was like a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":395.27,"endTime":397.64,"body":"nightmare if they all turned up"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":395.27,"endTime":397.64,"body":"but people didn't, there was"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":397.64,"endTime":402.2,"body":"massive DNA's. So it was like"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":397.64,"endTime":402.2,"body":"counseling bootcamp. Looking"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":402.2,"endTime":406.61,"body":"back on it, I just had a room in"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":402.2,"endTime":406.61,"body":"an organisation, I didn't see"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":406.61,"endTime":411.02,"body":"anyone else. I saw my supervisor"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":406.61,"endTime":411.02,"body":"once a month, and she was"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":411.02,"endTime":414.26,"body":"psychodynamic and I was"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":411.02,"endTime":414.26,"body":"terrified of her. So it was"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":414.26,"endTime":420.44,"body":"hard, hard, hard, hard graph."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":414.26,"endTime":420.44,"body":"But good. Looking back on it. If"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":420.44,"endTime":423.98,"body":"it has to be brutal, which it"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":420.44,"endTime":423.98,"body":"was for me, then I learned so"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":423.98,"endTime":429.56,"body":"much. And during that period of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":423.98,"endTime":429.56,"body":"time, I got really switched on"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":429.56,"endTime":432.68,"body":"to - \"Blimey, there aren't any"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":429.56,"endTime":432.68,"body":"paid jobs, like no one gets paid"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":432.68,"endTime":435.53,"body":"for this stuff\". What.. IAPT"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":432.68,"endTime":435.53,"body":"wasn't even a twinkle in"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":435.53,"endTime":439.64,"body":"(something's) eye at that point."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":435.53,"endTime":439.64,"body":"So I realised that there were"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":439.64,"endTime":445.31,"body":"paid jobs in hospices, if you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":439.64,"endTime":445.31,"body":"could get one. And so the truth"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":445.31,"endTime":447.92,"body":"of the matter here I am as a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":445.31,"endTime":447.92,"body":"bereavement specialist all these"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":447.92,"endTime":450.74,"body":"years later, and it is my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":447.92,"endTime":450.74,"body":"absolute passion, but it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":450.74,"endTime":453.86,"body":"my passion at the time, my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":450.74,"endTime":453.86,"body":"passion was earning money. And I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":453.86,"endTime":457.76,"body":"thought, okay, I can maybe try"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":453.86,"endTime":457.76,"body":"and get a job in a hospice. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":457.76,"endTime":460.58,"body":"there was a lot of loss, I think"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":457.76,"endTime":460.58,"body":"that underpins a lot of people's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":460.58,"endTime":464.48,"body":"stories around problem gambling"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":460.58,"endTime":464.48,"body":"or substance abuse or"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":464.48,"endTime":468.68,"body":"problematic drinking. So I'd"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":464.48,"endTime":468.68,"body":"started to read and was"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":468.68,"endTime":471.74,"body":"interested. So perhaps not quite"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":468.68,"endTime":471.74,"body":"true to say I didn't have any"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":471.74,"endTime":474.89,"body":"interest. But I certainly bigged"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":471.74,"endTime":474.89,"body":"it up for the interview telling"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":474.89,"endTime":478.28,"body":"them it was my life times"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":474.89,"endTime":478.28,"body":"ambition to work in hospice, the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":478.28,"endTime":483.68,"body":"juke was I wanted to be paid. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":478.28,"endTime":483.68,"body":"I've always held those memories"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":483.68,"endTime":486.68,"body":"very strongly, in my mind, and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":483.68,"endTime":486.68,"body":"they inform some of the things"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":486.68,"endTime":489.35,"body":"that I now feel about our"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":486.68,"endTime":489.35,"body":"profession. But that's how I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":489.35,"endTime":493.07,"body":"started. So I mean, over the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":489.35,"endTime":493.07,"body":"next period of time, I worked in"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":493.07,"endTime":495.74,"body":"three different hospices in the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":493.07,"endTime":495.74,"body":"North East, which is where I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":495.74,"endTime":499.64,"body":"live, but not where I come from."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":495.74,"endTime":499.64,"body":"And no, I haven't lost my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":499.64,"endTime":503.87,"body":"accent. I come from London. But"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":499.64,"endTime":503.87,"body":"yeah, so, and I gradually sort"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":503.87,"endTime":506.87,"body":"of worked my way up to a point"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":503.87,"endTime":506.87,"body":"where I was in a position where"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":506.87,"endTime":510.47,"body":"I was running a big service and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":506.87,"endTime":510.47,"body":"had autonomy and agency to kind"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":510.47,"endTime":512.99,"body":"of develop that, along with the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":510.47,"endTime":512.99,"body":"chief executive was a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":512.99,"endTime":516.23,"body":"guy called David Smith. Thank"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":512.99,"endTime":516.23,"body":"you, David. So we, I did some"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":516.23,"endTime":519.35,"body":"really interesting work during"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":516.23,"endTime":519.35,"body":"that period of time, and have"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":519.38,"endTime":523.82,"body":"just recently stopped and come"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":519.38,"endTime":523.82,"body":"home and set up in private"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":523.82,"endTime":527.57,"body":"practice, which is suiting me"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":523.82,"endTime":527.57,"body":"really well actually, I'm really"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":527.57,"endTime":531.05,"body":"enjoying it. The joke I'm making"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":527.57,"endTime":531.05,"body":"to everyone is I'm like one of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":531.05,"endTime":534.65,"body":"those battery chickens that kind"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":531.05,"endTime":534.65,"body":"people adopt, you know, and they"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":534.65,"endTime":536.63,"body":"come in, they've got no"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":534.65,"endTime":536.63,"body":"feathers, they've never been out"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":536.63,"endTime":539.42,"body":"and they will really stressed."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":536.63,"endTime":539.42,"body":"And then really quickly, their"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":539.42,"endTime":541.58,"body":"feathers come in and they start"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":539.42,"endTime":541.58,"body":"pecking around having a good"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":541.58,"endTime":547.07,"body":"time. That's how I feel coming"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":541.58,"endTime":547.07,"body":"out of work... I mean, the work"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":547.07,"endTime":549.8,"body":"was great, don't get me wrong."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":547.07,"endTime":549.8,"body":"But oh my god, it was"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":549.8,"endTime":553.34,"body":"exhausting. And I had quite a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":549.8,"endTime":553.34,"body":"big commute. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":553.34,"endTime":557.12,"body":"managing staff is always really,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":553.34,"endTime":557.12,"body":"really tiring. So not doing"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":557.12,"endTime":561.47,"body":"it... I feel, you know, yeah, my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":557.12,"endTime":561.47,"body":"feathers have come back in!"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":561.66,"endTime":563.85,"body":"Sara... I love"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":561.66,"endTime":563.85,"body":"that. I love that metaphor. I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":564.09,"endTime":566.91,"body":"think we might end up using that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":564.09,"endTime":566.91,"body":"as a little clip, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":566.91,"endTime":573.6,"body":"we advertise this episode with"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":566.91,"endTime":573.6,"body":"(yeah, go for it). You're all"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":573.6,"endTime":579.54,"body":"people... so so then you end up"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":573.6,"endTime":579.54,"body":"with like a specialist interest"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":579.54,"endTime":584.67,"body":"grief and loss. What do you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":579.54,"endTime":584.67,"body":"think are the important aspects"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":584.67,"endTime":587.82,"body":"of practice when you're working"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":584.67,"endTime":587.82,"body":"with those particular issues?"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":587.93,"endTime":590.54,"body":"One of the things"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":587.93,"endTime":590.54,"body":"that I feel really strongly"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":590.54,"endTime":594.89,"body":"about is that you know how grief"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":590.54,"endTime":594.89,"body":"and loss and death sits in our"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":594.92,"endTime":597.8,"body":"society and how we are about all"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":594.92,"endTime":597.8,"body":"of that and that I think is"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":597.8,"endTime":602.21,"body":"reflected often in people's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":597.8,"endTime":602.21,"body":"bereavement, that they feel"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":602.21,"endTime":605.21,"body":"ashamed about what they feel,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":602.21,"endTime":605.21,"body":"they feel like they're doing it"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":605.24,"endTime":609.5,"body":"wrong, that there are rules. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":605.24,"endTime":609.5,"body":"actually there are some rules."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":609.86,"endTime":612.68,"body":"They might not be explicit, but"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":609.86,"endTime":612.68,"body":"there are, there's certainly"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":612.68,"endTime":615.56,"body":"rules that people trip over"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":612.68,"endTime":615.56,"body":"around kind of not getting over"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":615.56,"endTime":618.47,"body":"it quickly enough for other"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":615.56,"endTime":618.47,"body":"people's taste and all of that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":618.47,"endTime":621.5,"body":"kind of stuff. So I think that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":618.47,"endTime":621.5,"body":"one of the first things that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":622.25,"endTime":626.45,"body":"often emerges in the work is"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":622.25,"endTime":626.45,"body":"helping people to work with what"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":626.45,"endTime":632.78,"body":"they think about what they feel."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":626.45,"endTime":632.78,"body":"And is it okay to feel what I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":632.78,"endTime":636.2,"body":"feel and their internal"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":632.78,"endTime":636.2,"body":"permissions and their"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":636.2,"endTime":640.1,"body":"relationship with themselves,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":636.2,"endTime":640.1,"body":"their immediate community and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":640.1,"endTime":645.62,"body":"the wider community. So the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":640.1,"endTime":645.62,"body":"lived experience of being in"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":645.62,"endTime":650.57,"body":"grief and bereavement I think,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":645.62,"endTime":650.57,"body":"so that I think is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":650.57,"endTime":654.77,"body":"something that emerges in all"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":650.57,"endTime":654.77,"body":"sorts of different ways, I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":654.77,"endTime":662.18,"body":"think. Then I think there's you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":654.77,"endTime":662.18,"body":"as a therapist, and how you are"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":662.18,"endTime":664.49,"body":"with that, which I'm sure is the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":662.18,"endTime":664.49,"body":"same, I mean, a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":664.49,"endTime":668.0,"body":"things I think I will say today"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":664.49,"endTime":668.0,"body":"are absolutely applicable to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":668.0,"endTime":671.51,"body":"everybody else as well. It's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":668.0,"endTime":671.51,"body":"just that I work in bereavement"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":671.51,"endTime":677.0,"body":"and loss primarily. So I think"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":671.51,"endTime":677.0,"body":"you have to be very aware of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":677.0,"endTime":682.7,"body":"your own feelings, and you have"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":677.0,"endTime":682.7,"body":"to have your feet steady on the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":682.7,"endTime":686.54,"body":"ground, I always think of it"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":682.7,"endTime":686.54,"body":"as... I think I'm quite grounded"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":686.54,"endTime":690.92,"body":"as a personality, largely"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":686.54,"endTime":690.92,"body":"because I wasn't at one point in"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":690.92,"endTime":695.42,"body":"any way grounded. So I hold that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":690.92,"endTime":695.42,"body":"very dearly. And it's very"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":695.42,"endTime":699.14,"body":"precious to me. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":695.42,"endTime":699.14,"body":"communicates itself in the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":699.14,"endTime":705.5,"body":"therapy space that I'm steady."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":699.14,"endTime":705.5,"body":"And I'm not scared. I think my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":705.5,"endTime":708.32,"body":"abusive childhood actually helps"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":705.5,"endTime":708.32,"body":"me there. Not that I'd wish it"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":708.32,"endTime":711.41,"body":"on anyone, but it makes me not"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":708.32,"endTime":711.41,"body":"frightened of people's extremity"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":711.41,"endTime":713.93,"body":"of emotion, I think, yeah, bring"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":711.41,"endTime":713.93,"body":"it on. It's fine. Whatever"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":713.93,"endTime":717.83,"body":"you're feeling, let's, let's do"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":713.93,"endTime":717.83,"body":"it. So I'm not afraid of the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":717.83,"endTime":720.68,"body":"depth of it. And I think often"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":717.83,"endTime":720.68,"body":"people who are in grief are"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":720.68,"endTime":724.64,"body":"afraid. So someone needs to be"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":720.68,"endTime":724.64,"body":"not afraid. And it's almost"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":724.64,"endTime":727.61,"body":"about holding that so that it"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":724.64,"endTime":727.61,"body":"gives people a space to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":728.57,"endTime":732.92,"body":"gradually become accustomed to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":728.57,"endTime":732.92,"body":"what they have to do. And the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":732.92,"endTime":737.51,"body":"adaptions in bereavement are..."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":732.92,"endTime":737.51,"body":"God, they're hard, aren't they?"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":737.57,"endTime":741.08,"body":"I mean, they're just and there's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":737.57,"endTime":741.08,"body":"so many of them. You know, from"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":741.08,"endTime":744.74,"body":"who puts the bins out to what is"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":741.08,"endTime":744.74,"body":"the purpose and meaning of my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":744.74,"endTime":749.12,"body":"life and back again. So I like a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":744.74,"endTime":749.12,"body":"big existential conversation. I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":749.12,"endTime":754.25,"body":"always have, I think ever since"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":749.12,"endTime":754.25,"body":"I trained. And so I enjoy that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":754.25,"endTime":757.4,"body":"aspect as well of grief work is"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":754.25,"endTime":757.4,"body":"that you get to talk about the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":757.4,"endTime":763.16,"body":"big stuff. So yeah, I think that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":757.4,"endTime":763.16,"body":"would be a summary, I guess some"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":763.16,"endTime":766.34,"body":"of the things that I think about"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":763.16,"endTime":766.34,"body":"when I'm first getting to know a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":766.34,"endTime":769.25,"body":"client and meeting them, and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":766.34,"endTime":769.25,"body":"hearing what it's like for them."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":769.67,"endTime":771.77,"body":"Thank you. I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":769.67,"endTime":771.77,"body":"mean, that's really interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":771.77,"endTime":775.97,"body":"My first placement was a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":771.77,"endTime":775.97,"body":"bereavement service, when I was"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":776.0,"endTime":780.47,"body":"when I was in training. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":776.0,"endTime":780.47,"body":"so grateful to have had that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":780.5,"endTime":784.49,"body":"experience as a therapist as"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":780.5,"endTime":784.49,"body":"some of my first experiences as"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":784.49,"endTime":788.09,"body":"a counselor, because I feel like"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":784.49,"endTime":788.09,"body":"it's helped ground me in the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":788.09,"endTime":791.75,"body":"rest of my work, even when I'm"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":788.09,"endTime":791.75,"body":"not working with bereavement and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":791.75,"endTime":796.28,"body":"loss. I feel like it gave me a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":791.75,"endTime":796.28,"body":"good grounding. And, as you say,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":796.28,"endTime":800.09,"body":"the kind of the idea of some of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":796.28,"endTime":800.09,"body":"those extreme, really raw"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":800.12,"endTime":804.62,"body":"feelings. Someone's really kind"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":800.12,"endTime":804.62,"body":"of frightened of where's this"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":804.62,"endTime":807.89,"body":"gonna go kind of, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":804.62,"endTime":807.89,"body":"not sure what's going to happen"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":807.89,"endTime":811.91,"body":"here. Can you hold it? Can you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":807.89,"endTime":811.91,"body":"support me while I'm, or be with"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":811.91,"endTime":815.21,"body":"me while I'm going through that,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":811.91,"endTime":815.21,"body":"and not not be frightened of it."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":815.21,"endTime":819.23,"body":"And I think for me, that's that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":815.21,"endTime":819.23,"body":"experience as a therapist early"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":819.23,"endTime":821.75,"body":"on, really has helped I think"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":819.23,"endTime":821.75,"body":"throughout my whole whole"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":821.75,"endTime":824.45,"body":"career, working with all clients"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":821.75,"endTime":824.45,"body":"bringing all different types of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":824.0,"endTime":828.29,"body":"I can hear it in"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":824.0,"endTime":828.29,"body":"what we're saying, when you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":824.45,"endTime":824.9,"body":"issues."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":828.35,"endTime":830.81,"body":"start reflecting that back and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":828.35,"endTime":830.81,"body":"saying about the holding, I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":830.81,"endTime":834.17,"body":"could literally feel my arms"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":830.81,"endTime":834.17,"body":"prickle a bit it, because it's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":834.17,"endTime":839.18,"body":"so important. And it is so"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":834.17,"endTime":839.18,"body":"terrifying, isn't it? And you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":839.18,"endTime":842.78,"body":"know, I don't know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":839.18,"endTime":842.78,"body":"think I've spoken to very many"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":842.78,"endTime":850.07,"body":"people who are bereaved who, for"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":842.78,"endTime":850.07,"body":"example, have lost a child. Or"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":850.07,"endTime":853.25,"body":"perhaps they've lost somebody"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":850.07,"endTime":853.25,"body":"from death by suicide, where you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":853.25,"endTime":856.64,"body":"don't at some point, think to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":853.25,"endTime":856.64,"body":"yourself, 'so is there any point"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":856.64,"endTime":859.94,"body":"in me living'? I mean, that is"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":856.64,"endTime":859.94,"body":"actually part of what it is you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":859.94,"endTime":862.97,"body":"have to do, isn't it when you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":859.94,"endTime":862.97,"body":"have a significant death, it's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":862.97,"endTime":866.6,"body":"you have to reconfigure the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":862.97,"endTime":866.6,"body":"purpose and meaning of your own"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":866.6,"endTime":871.28,"body":"life. And so you are being with"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":866.6,"endTime":871.28,"body":"people who are considering"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":871.28,"endTime":875.39,"body":"whether they live or die, and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":871.28,"endTime":875.39,"body":"you have to really know how to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":875.39,"endTime":880.82,"body":"hold that space, I think. But"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":875.39,"endTime":880.82,"body":"not rush in and rescue. That's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":880.82,"endTime":883.22,"body":"absolutely the last thing I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":880.82,"endTime":883.22,"body":"think or suddenly say, oh,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":883.22,"endTime":886.19,"body":"safeguarding, you know, and go"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":883.22,"endTime":886.19,"body":"off and do something ridiculous."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":886.46,"endTime":890.9,"body":"So there is some very careful"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":886.46,"endTime":890.9,"body":"judgments that need to be made"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":890.93,"endTime":894.26,"body":"in collaboration with the client"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":890.93,"endTime":894.26,"body":"is where I would go with all of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":894.26,"endTime":896.0,"body":"that. Always, always."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":896.0,"endTime":901.16,"body":"I, I ..."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":896.0,"endTime":901.16,"body":"absolutely So how would you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":901.22,"endTime":903.5,"body":"define your therapeutic"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":901.22,"endTime":903.5,"body":"approach? Is that something"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":903.5,"endTime":907.46,"body":"that's changed over time? Or"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":903.5,"endTime":907.46,"body":"have you stayed with with...?"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":911.26,"endTime":921.34,"body":"what the other"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":911.26,"endTime":921.34,"body":"person, so you feel a bit"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":921.34,"endTime":924.37,"body":"unhappy today, and you're pissed"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":921.34,"endTime":924.37,"body":"off about your mark... So it"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":924.37,"endTime":926.38,"body":"would be like that. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":924.37,"endTime":926.38,"body":"obviously, we've got to start"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":926.38,"endTime":931.3,"body":"somewhere and learn but yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":926.38,"endTime":931.3,"body":"I, we started with that. And I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":931.3,"endTime":933.94,"body":"fell in love with Carl Rogers,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":931.3,"endTime":933.94,"body":"and I haven't fallen out of love"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":933.94,"endTime":938.47,"body":"with him to be honest. Even"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":933.94,"endTime":938.47,"body":"though I do find his books bit"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":938.47,"endTime":942.55,"body":"boring. I prefer the books that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":938.47,"endTime":942.55,"body":"are written more recently, which"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":942.55,"endTime":947.14,"body":"are a bit more moved on, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":942.55,"endTime":947.14,"body":"honest. But anyway, I love the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":947.14,"endTime":951.55,"body":"principles and what he stood"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":947.14,"endTime":951.55,"body":"for, are absolutely embedded in"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":951.55,"endTime":954.7,"body":"me. So relational stuff, the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":951.55,"endTime":954.7,"body":"stuff that lots of us would say,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":954.7,"endTime":958.87,"body":"I think. In terms of the other"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":954.7,"endTime":958.87,"body":"developments, I mean, it's some"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":958.87,"endTime":962.32,"body":"of its been driven by"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":958.87,"endTime":962.32,"body":"supervisors that I've had. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":962.32,"endTime":966.64,"body":"yeah, I mentioned I had a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":962.32,"endTime":966.64,"body":"psychodynamic supervisor in my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":966.64,"endTime":968.65,"body":"early stages, I was terrified of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":966.64,"endTime":968.65,"body":"her, but but actually came to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":968.65,"endTime":973.27,"body":"really like her. And we struck"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":968.65,"endTime":973.27,"body":"up a good working alliance, and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":973.3,"endTime":977.26,"body":"I thought, oh, maybe there's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":973.3,"endTime":977.26,"body":"good stuff in here. And then of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":977.26,"endTime":979.51,"body":"course, I was working in"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":977.26,"endTime":979.51,"body":"bereavement. So you can't I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":979.51,"endTime":981.64,"body":"think work in bereavement"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":979.51,"endTime":981.64,"body":"without looking at attachment,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":982.0,"endTime":984.13,"body":"and all of that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":982.0,"endTime":984.13,"body":"And you're looking"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":984.13,"endTime":986.95,"body":"retrospectively a lot in grief"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":984.13,"endTime":986.95,"body":"and loss, because you're looking"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":986.95,"endTime":990.64,"body":"at the relationship people have"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":986.95,"endTime":990.64,"body":"lost. So you're reflecting back,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":990.94,"endTime":995.26,"body":"and then coming into the here"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":990.94,"endTime":995.26,"body":"and now. So I think I've, you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":995.26,"endTime":998.32,"body":"know, got very interested in, in"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":995.26,"endTime":998.32,"body":"that. And transactional"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":998.32,"endTime":1000.93,"body":"analysis. I think I've had"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":998.32,"endTime":1000.93,"body":"several supervisors through my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1000.93,"endTime":1002.58,"body":"career have been really big on"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1000.93,"endTime":1002.58,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1002.0,"endTime":1005.06,"body":"I wondered if"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1002.0,"endTime":1005.06,"body":"I'm flipping back now to what we"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1005.06,"endTime":1008.84,"body":"were talking about earlier."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1005.06,"endTime":1008.84,"body":"Sorry, sorry, random, random"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1008.84,"endTime":1013.04,"body":"path of questions. But when you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1008.84,"endTime":1013.04,"body":"were talking about working with"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1013.04,"endTime":1016.49,"body":"grief, bereavement and loss, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1013.04,"endTime":1016.49,"body":"I wondered whether there was any"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1016.49,"endTime":1019.52,"body":"particular resources that you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1016.49,"endTime":1019.52,"body":"think, and that would be"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1019.52,"endTime":1022.28,"body":"available for therapists who"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1019.52,"endTime":1022.28,"body":"maybe want to work in this area,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1022.31,"endTime":1025.55,"body":"or are working in this area, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1022.31,"endTime":1025.55,"body":"they're looking for additional"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1025.55,"endTime":1026.9,"body":"stuff that might help them?"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1026.0,"endTime":1029.03,"body":"Yeah, I think I've"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1026.0,"endTime":1029.03,"body":"got a few things I wrote them"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1029.03,"endTime":1034.7,"body":"down... and I'll just refer to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1029.03,"endTime":1034.7,"body":"my bits of paper, a shout out to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1034.7,"endTime":1037.67,"body":"my friend, John Wilson. He works"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1034.7,"endTime":1037.67,"body":"at York, St. John, and he wrote"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1037.7,"endTime":1040.94,"body":"'The Plain Guide to Grief'. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1037.7,"endTime":1040.94,"body":"if you want to read something"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1040.94,"endTime":1043.25,"body":"that's straightforward by"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1040.94,"endTime":1043.25,"body":"somebody really knows their"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1043.25,"endTime":1045.92,"body":"onions about grief and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1043.25,"endTime":1045.92,"body":"bereavement, that's a good one,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1045.92,"endTime":1048.89,"body":"I would say. It's a wonderful"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1045.92,"endTime":1048.89,"body":"book, I think I've recommended"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1048.89,"endTime":1051.83,"body":"it to so many colleagues, but"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1048.89,"endTime":1051.83,"body":"lots of clients as well, it's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1051.83,"endTime":1055.88,"body":"really accessible for all of us."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1051.83,"endTime":1055.88,"body":"So that I would absolutely"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1055.88,"endTime":1059.84,"body":"recommend. And I went on a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1055.88,"endTime":1059.84,"body":"training course recently and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1059.84,"endTime":1063.41,"body":"discovered that there's going to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1059.84,"endTime":1063.41,"body":"be a new book out in January"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1063.41,"endTime":1066.5,"body":"'23, which is the 'New Handbook"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1063.41,"endTime":1066.5,"body":"of Grief Therapies', which is"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1066.53,"endTime":1070.55,"body":"edited by Maria Stefan and two"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1066.53,"endTime":1070.55,"body":"others Millman and Neimeyer"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1070.67,"endTime":1073.28,"body":"(sp?) I don't know how to say"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1070.67,"endTime":1073.28,"body":"it. But the thing I think that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1073.28,"endTime":1076.52,"body":"is going to be really good from"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1073.28,"endTime":1076.52,"body":"what I understood of what she"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1076.52,"endTime":1080.09,"body":"was saying at the time, is that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1076.52,"endTime":1080.09,"body":"it's it's very pluralism-based."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1080.78,"endTime":1085.1,"body":"So it's lots of different ways"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1080.78,"endTime":1085.1,"body":"of working with grief through"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1085.1,"endTime":1088.91,"body":"lots of theoretical"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1085.1,"endTime":1088.91,"body":"orientations, based on what does"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1088.91,"endTime":1093.32,"body":"the client need, which I, that,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1088.91,"endTime":1093.32,"body":"speaks to me, I like that. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1093.35,"endTime":1096.65,"body":"I'm looking forward to that."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1093.35,"endTime":1096.65,"body":"I've got that on pre order. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1096.65,"endTime":1099.59,"body":"I'd say look at that, because it"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1096.65,"endTime":1099.59,"body":"might be that you have a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1099.59,"endTime":1102.98,"body":"theoretical training in, in an"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1099.59,"endTime":1102.98,"body":"area and thinking can I do grief"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1102.98,"endTime":1106.7,"body":"though, do I know... And I think"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1102.98,"endTime":1106.7,"body":"that that will probably offer us"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1106.7,"endTime":1110.48,"body":"all a kind of, okay, this is how"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1106.7,"endTime":1110.48,"body":"I can apply what I know. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1110.48,"endTime":1113.51,"body":"this is how that might work. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1110.48,"endTime":1113.51,"body":"I think it will be an empowering"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1113.51,"endTime":1117.59,"body":"read. When Richard Coles lost"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1113.51,"endTime":1117.59,"body":"his partner, his husband, I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1117.59,"endTime":1120.26,"body":"think it was wasn't ih? I, I, he"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1117.59,"endTime":1120.26,"body":"wrote 'The madness of grief'. I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1120.26,"endTime":1124.49,"body":"think that's a wonderful book. I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1120.26,"endTime":1124.49,"body":"really cried buckets over that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1124.55,"endTime":1128.99,"body":"and laughed, I, all of it, all"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1124.55,"endTime":1128.99,"body":"the feels, and I love him. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1128.99,"endTime":1132.29,"body":"I'd really recommend that. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1128.99,"endTime":1132.29,"body":"then going back a bit over I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1132.32,"endTime":1136.91,"body":"say, 'Beloved' by Toni Morrison"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1132.32,"endTime":1136.91,"body":"is a wonderful book on loss, oh"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1136.94,"endTime":1141.5,"body":"God. I can hardly even say it"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1136.94,"endTime":1141.5,"body":"without feeling like I've got"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1141.5,"endTime":1144.41,"body":"tears pricking in the back of my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1141.5,"endTime":1144.41,"body":"eyes. So for me that's been"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1144.41,"endTime":1147.5,"body":"seminal. So yeah, those will be"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1144.41,"endTime":1147.5,"body":"my recommendations"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1147.65,"endTime":1148.91,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1147.65,"endTime":1148.91,"body":"brilliant. It's a brilliant list"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1148.91,"endTime":1152.51,"body":"of resources there. Then moving"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1148.91,"endTime":1152.51,"body":"to a slightly different topic,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1153.32,"endTime":1155.06,"body":"which we ask everyone,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1153.32,"endTime":1155.06,"body":"obviously, because it's the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1155.06,"endTime":1159.08,"body":"Therapists Connect podcast. And"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1155.06,"endTime":1159.08,"body":"I was just wondering, how do you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1159.08,"endTime":1163.97,"body":"see the wider kind of therapy"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1159.08,"endTime":1163.97,"body":"community? And how connected do"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1163.97,"endTime":1166.01,"body":"you feel sort of... to other"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1163.97,"endTime":1166.01,"body":"therapists?"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1165.1,"endTime":1167.811,"body":"Well, thanks to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1165.1,"endTime":1167.811,"body":"you, Peter, a great deal more"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1167.871,"endTime":1171.185,"body":"connected than I did. Cos you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1167.871,"endTime":1171.185,"body":"know, hello! Yeah. That's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1171.245,"endTime":1175.101,"body":"obviously more important for me,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1171.245,"endTime":1175.101,"body":"at this point in my career, now"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1175.161,"endTime":1179.017,"body":"I'm at home than it perhaps ever"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1175.161,"endTime":1179.017,"body":"been, because I used to work in"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1179.078,"endTime":1182.271,"body":"quite a big community of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1179.078,"endTime":1182.271,"body":"counselors, quite unusual, I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1182.331,"endTime":1186.067,"body":"think working in a service where"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1182.331,"endTime":1186.067,"body":"there were, you know, quite a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1186.127,"endTime":1189.802,"body":"few counselors knocking about"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1186.127,"endTime":1189.802,"body":"and always someone that you can"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1189.862,"endTime":1193.236,"body":"talk to. So I thought really"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1189.862,"endTime":1193.236,"body":"carefully about that when I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1192.16,"endTime":1365.47,"body":"I mean, appreciate your honesty"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1192.16,"endTime":1365.47,"body":"with all of that. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1193.297,"endTime":1196.851,"body":"jumped ship and kind of thought"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1193.297,"endTime":1196.851,"body":"about setting up in private"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1196.912,"endTime":1200.707,"body":"practice. I mean, I really enjoy"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1196.912,"endTime":1200.707,"body":"online dialogue ... I don't do"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1200.768,"endTime":1204.383,"body":"Facebook, well, but I do do"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1200.768,"endTime":1204.383,"body":"Facebook but for personal stuff,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1204.443,"endTime":1208.118,"body":"I don't do it for professional"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1204.443,"endTime":1208.118,"body":"stuff. I'm not in any Facebook"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1208.178,"endTime":1211.974,"body":"groups and I, I mean, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1208.178,"endTime":1211.974,"body":"there are some that are fab, but"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1212.034,"endTime":1215.589,"body":"I view them with fear and dread,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1212.034,"endTime":1215.589,"body":"because I see all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1215.649,"endTime":1219.264,"body":"things that people say, and I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1215.649,"endTime":1219.264,"body":"think 'Oh my God', but where I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1219.325,"endTime":1222.94,"body":"sit is I sit in Twitter, so I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1219.325,"endTime":1222.94,"body":"hope it survives. And I really"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1223.0,"endTime":1226.796,"body":"enjoy that I think I've learned"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1223.0,"endTime":1226.796,"body":"loads of things about how to be"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1226.856,"endTime":1230.17,"body":"in that space. And I've"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1226.856,"endTime":1230.17,"body":"certainly got it wrong and been"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1230.23,"endTime":1233.664,"body":"clunky and rude. And I've sort"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1230.23,"endTime":1233.664,"body":"of like got the hump about"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1233.724,"endTime":1237.58,"body":"people saying things and they've"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1233.724,"endTime":1237.58,"body":"got fed up with me. And there's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1237.641,"endTime":1241.376,"body":"been all sorts of stuff that's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1237.641,"endTime":1241.376,"body":"gone on for me. So it's quite a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1241.436,"endTime":1245.353,"body":"dynamic space, I think. But I've"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1241.436,"endTime":1245.353,"body":"enjoyed the self reflection that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1245.413,"endTime":1248.847,"body":"that's engendered in me, I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1245.413,"endTime":1248.847,"body":"think, I think that's good for"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1248.907,"endTime":1252.522,"body":"me. So I quite like sort of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1248.907,"endTime":1252.522,"body":"thinking carefully about what to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1252.583,"endTime":1256.198,"body":"say, and, but then at the same"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1252.583,"endTime":1256.198,"body":"time, trying to also still be"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1256.258,"endTime":1259.391,"body":"authentic, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1256.258,"endTime":1259.391,"body":"responsive to people. So I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1259.451,"endTime":1263.126,"body":"really enjoy the hurly-burly of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1259.451,"endTime":1263.126,"body":"all of that. I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1263.187,"endTime":1266.802,"body":"great space and very supportive."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1263.187,"endTime":1266.802,"body":"Brings me on to something I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1266.862,"endTime":1270.658,"body":"think that I did want to kind of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1266.862,"endTime":1270.658,"body":"bring up really, something has"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1270.718,"endTime":1274.152,"body":"changed, because what I was"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1270.718,"endTime":1274.152,"body":"doing when I was in paid work"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1274.212,"endTime":1277.948,"body":"was running a great big service"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1274.212,"endTime":1277.948,"body":"in the voluntary sector, where"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1278.008,"endTime":1281.924,"body":"only about 15% of the counselors"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1278.008,"endTime":1281.924,"body":"got paid. Shoot me now. So I was"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1281.985,"endTime":1285.72,"body":"quite cautious and anxious and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1281.985,"endTime":1285.72,"body":"conflicted about that. And, you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1285.78,"endTime":1289.034,"body":"know, I'm sure there'll be"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1285.78,"endTime":1289.034,"body":"people listening and saying"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1289.094,"endTime":1292.769,"body":"that, you know, you should have"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1289.094,"endTime":1292.769,"body":"resigned, but I didn't, okay."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1292.83,"endTime":1296.324,"body":"Now I have, and I certainly"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1292.83,"endTime":1296.324,"body":"didn't resign because of that."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1296.384,"endTime":1299.999,"body":"So I'm not trying to occupy a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1296.384,"endTime":1299.999,"body":"moral high ground that was not"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1300.06,"endTime":1303.554,"body":"mine to occupy. I changed and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1300.06,"endTime":1303.554,"body":"got out of that for personal"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1303.614,"endTime":1307.169,"body":"reasons, really. But it does"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1303.614,"endTime":1307.169,"body":"make a difference now, because"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1307.229,"endTime":1310.965,"body":"it's almost like all this kind"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1307.229,"endTime":1310.965,"body":"of political sensibility, which"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1311.025,"endTime":1314.881,"body":"I felt really anxious about, it"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1311.025,"endTime":1314.881,"body":"has now got a bit more oxygen to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1314.941,"endTime":1318.617,"body":"breathe. And I now think that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1314.941,"endTime":1318.617,"body":"paying counselors is the number"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1318.677,"endTime":1322.111,"body":"one priority for our profession"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1318.677,"endTime":1322.111,"body":"that and avoiding SCoPEd,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1322.171,"endTime":1325.606,"body":"SCoPEd, I think, let's not do"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1322.171,"endTime":1325.606,"body":"that. And let's try and get"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1325.666,"endTime":1329.341,"body":"paid. Those are the two things"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1325.666,"endTime":1329.341,"body":"that I now feel I can say with"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1329.401,"endTime":1333.197,"body":"clean hands. Whereas I didn't, I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1329.401,"endTime":1333.197,"body":"felt like Lady Macbeth before."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1333.257,"endTime":1337.053,"body":"And I felt like I'd always got"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1333.257,"endTime":1337.053,"body":"this kind of, yes, but look what"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1337.113,"endTime":1340.849,"body":"I do. And, you know, Peter, I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1337.113,"endTime":1340.849,"body":"worked my socks off to make sure"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1340.909,"endTime":1344.464,"body":"that it was a good place for"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1340.909,"endTime":1344.464,"body":"volunteer counselors to be and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1344.524,"endTime":1347.476,"body":"it was a good offer. And you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1344.524,"endTime":1347.476,"body":"know, they got their"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1347.537,"endTime":1351.272,"body":"supervision, and they got CPD,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1347.537,"endTime":1351.272,"body":"and they got a library and they"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1351.332,"endTime":1355.068,"body":"got a community and they got all"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1351.332,"endTime":1355.068,"body":"the, all the resources that I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1355.128,"endTime":1358.864,"body":"could muster, except for pay,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1355.128,"endTime":1358.864,"body":"given to them, but it still felt"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1358.924,"endTime":1362.66,"body":"crap. So, you know, there we"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1358.924,"endTime":1362.66,"body":"are. That's the world we live in."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1365.47,"endTime":1368.62,"body":"it's, personally, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1365.47,"endTime":1368.62,"body":"really difficult because it's"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1368.62,"endTime":1371.74,"body":"much more in recent times that I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1368.62,"endTime":1371.74,"body":"think people have started to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1371.74,"endTime":1375.07,"body":"understand how systemic, that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1371.74,"endTime":1375.07,"body":"is, you know, it's not just the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1375.07,"endTime":1378.04,"body":"odd service here, the voluntary"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1375.07,"endTime":1378.04,"body":"service here, there. It's the"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1378.04,"endTime":1383.14,"body":"whole profession built, built on"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1378.04,"endTime":1383.14,"body":"that, you know. So I think"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1383.17,"endTime":1386.38,"body":"people being able to speak out"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1383.17,"endTime":1386.38,"body":"and talk about it now, so that"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1386.41,"endTime":1388.81,"body":"so that change happens, I think"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1386.41,"endTime":1388.81,"body":"is really important. So I really"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1388.81,"endTime":1392.17,"body":"admire you for kind of (Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1388.81,"endTime":1392.17,"body":"thank you). It feels like maybe"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1392.17,"endTime":1396.46,"body":"a nice moment to finish on as"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1392.17,"endTime":1396.46,"body":"well. But I suppose maybe just a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1396.46,"endTime":1400.0,"body":"little last question for you"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1396.46,"endTime":1400.0,"body":"might be, what do you have"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1400.03,"endTime":1402.55,"body":"planned next? Do you have"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1400.03,"endTime":1402.55,"body":"anything planned next that you'd"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1402.55,"endTime":1404.32,"body":"like to, to tell the listeners"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1402.55,"endTime":1404.32,"body":"about?"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1404.0,"endTime":1409.37,"body":"Well, I'm in private practice"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1404.0,"endTime":1409.37,"body":"now. I've got a website,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1409.73,"endTime":1413.24,"body":"SaraMatthewsCounseling co.uk. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1409.73,"endTime":1413.24,"body":"you can find me if you want"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1413.24,"endTime":1416.99,"body":"to,or you can find me on"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1413.24,"endTime":1416.99,"body":"Twitter. I'm doing a mixture of"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1416.99,"endTime":1420.11,"body":"supervision and client.. really"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1416.99,"endTime":1420.11,"body":"interesting when I first went"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1420.11,"endTime":1422.6,"body":"into private practice, which is"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1420.11,"endTime":1422.6,"body":"literally only three months ago,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1422.6,"endTime":1426.77,"body":"loads of supervision. And I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1422.6,"endTime":1426.77,"body":"think that's because I tried to"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1426.77,"endTime":1431.99,"body":"make myself a bit known. The"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1426.77,"endTime":1431.99,"body":"client work has been slower. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1431.99,"endTime":1434.42,"body":"I think I'm about two thirds"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1431.99,"endTime":1434.42,"body":"full at the moment. So I'm still"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1434.42,"endTime":1436.85,"body":"looking for clients, I'm sure a"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1434.42,"endTime":1436.85,"body":"lot, I'm not the only person"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1436.85,"endTime":1439.91,"body":"there, I get that it's a lot"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1436.85,"endTime":1439.91,"body":"about word of mouth and"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1439.91,"endTime":1443.33,"body":"initially you have to pay loads"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1439.91,"endTime":1443.33,"body":"of money for the advertising. So"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1443.36,"endTime":1447.38,"body":"I think, yeah, you know, please"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1443.36,"endTime":1447.38,"body":"be aware of me. And if you think"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1447.38,"endTime":1450.53,"body":"I might be helpful, then let"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1447.38,"endTime":1450.53,"body":"people know that I'm around. And"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1450.53,"endTime":1453.11,"body":"can we all do that for each"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1450.53,"endTime":1453.11,"body":"other would be my thought,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1453.14,"endTime":1456.17,"body":"because, you know, that's what"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1453.14,"endTime":1456.17,"body":"we should be doing, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1456.2,"endTime":1461.21,"body":"I'm absolutely delighted if I"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1456.2,"endTime":1461.21,"body":"can direct somebody to somebody"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1461.21,"endTime":1464.69,"body":"that I think might be really"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1461.21,"endTime":1464.69,"body":"good for them. And always very"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1464.69,"endTime":1470.06,"body":"pleased if people do the same"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1464.69,"endTime":1470.06,"body":"for me. So I sort of want to ask"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1470.06,"endTime":1472.37,"body":"for that support, but also offer"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1470.06,"endTime":1472.37,"body":"it as well."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1472.88,"endTime":1474.35,"body":"Brilliant. Well,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1472.88,"endTime":1474.35,"body":"it sounds like you've got a lot"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1474.35,"endTime":1478.61,"body":"going on. And yeah, if anyone"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1474.35,"endTime":1478.61,"body":"wants to find you on Twitter,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1478.82,"endTime":1481.25,"body":"you have lots of interesting"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1478.82,"endTime":1481.25,"body":"discussions on there about"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1481.25,"endTime":1483.59,"body":"therapy and also related things"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1481.25,"endTime":1483.59,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1483.62,"endTime":1489.65,"body":"Other things!!"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1483.62,"endTime":1489.65,"body":"Indeed, yes, please do. Please"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1489.65,"endTime":1492.38,"body":"come find me, I'm @Plumjam61, if"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1489.65,"endTime":1492.38,"body":"you want to follow me on"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1492.38,"endTime":1493.1,"body":"Twitter. So..."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1494.42,"endTime":1497.48,"body":"Sara, thank you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1494.42,"endTime":1497.48,"body":"so much for have you on to the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1497.48,"endTime":1500.06,"body":"podcast. And I look forward to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1497.48,"endTime":1500.06,"body":"chatting to you again in the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1500.06,"endTime":1500.63,"body":"future."},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1500.69,"endTime":1503.45,"body":"Absolutely Peter"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1500.69,"endTime":1503.45,"body":"yeah it's been it's hopefully"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1503.45,"endTime":1505.64,"body":"useful and interesting for other"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1503.45,"endTime":1505.64,"body":"people but it's been a real"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1505.64,"endTime":1508.4,"body":"pleasure for me to meet you, so"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1505.64,"endTime":1508.4,"body":"thank you I've enjoyed my"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1508.4,"endTime":1508.94,"body":"morning.."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1509.21,"endTime":1510.95,"body":"It's brilliant"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1509.21,"endTime":1510.95,"body":"thank you. Take care"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1511.76,"endTime":1513.17,"body":"See you Peter,"},{"speaker":"Sara Mathews","startTime":1511.76,"endTime":1513.17,"body":"bye."}]}