{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":0.36,"endTime":2.31,"body":"Hello and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":0.36,"endTime":2.31,"body":"welcome to another episode of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2.31,"endTime":6.12,"body":"the therapist connects podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2.31,"endTime":6.12,"body":"Today's episode is a shortened"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":6.12,"endTime":8.97,"body":"version of a discussion that was"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":6.12,"endTime":8.97,"body":"hosted by therapists connect"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":8.97,"endTime":13.02,"body":"earlier this year. Caz and I as"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":8.97,"endTime":13.02,"body":"co leads, the therapist connect"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":13.02,"endTime":15.78,"body":"hosted a debate with some of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":13.02,"endTime":15.78,"body":"authors from a new book called"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":15.78,"endTime":19.62,"body":"queering psychotherapy. This"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":15.78,"endTime":19.62,"body":"podcast is a shortened version"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":19.62,"endTime":22.47,"body":"of that discussion. If you'd"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":19.62,"endTime":22.47,"body":"like to hear the full debate,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":22.59,"endTime":25.56,"body":"please go to our YouTube channel"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":22.59,"endTime":25.56,"body":"and search for queering"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":25.56,"endTime":28.32,"body":"psychotherapy. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":25.56,"endTime":28.32,"body":"listening to the Therapist"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":28.32,"endTime":31.29,"body":"Connect podcast. If you'd like"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":28.32,"endTime":31.29,"body":"to support us, then please go to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":31.29,"endTime":33.81,"body":"your favorite podcast platform"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":31.29,"endTime":33.81,"body":"and leave us a review."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":35.46,"endTime":37.35,"body":"Okay, cause would you like to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":35.46,"endTime":37.35,"body":"start us off with the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":37.35,"endTime":38.31,"body":"introductions?"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":38.96,"endTime":43.55,"body":"Ellis J. Johnson,"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":38.96,"endTime":43.55,"body":"who is a psychodynamic"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":43.58,"endTime":48.53,"body":"psychotherapeutic counsellor and"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":43.58,"endTime":48.53,"body":"trainer specializing in working"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":48.53,"endTime":53.63,"body":"alongside clients who are"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":48.53,"endTime":53.63,"body":"transgender, non binary, queer,"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":53.69,"endTime":55.07,"body":"and or questioning."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":57.38,"endTime":61.31,"body":"We also have"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":57.38,"endTime":61.31,"body":"Jane Chance Czyzselska pronouns"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":61.37,"endTime":64.88,"body":"they/them  who is a relational,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":61.37,"endTime":64.88,"body":"integrative psychotherapist in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":64.88,"endTime":68.42,"body":"private practice, editor and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":64.88,"endTime":68.42,"body":"writer as well as a member of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":68.42,"endTime":70.79,"body":"the Relational School organizing"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":68.42,"endTime":70.79,"body":"team."},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":72.67,"endTime":75.7,"body":"And then we have"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":72.67,"endTime":75.7,"body":"Amanda Middleton, pronouns"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":75.73,"endTime":81.04,"body":"she/her, who is a white, queer,"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":75.73,"endTime":81.04,"body":"femme, and antipodean who thinks"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":81.04,"endTime":84.58,"body":"a lot about gender. For the last"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":81.04,"endTime":84.58,"body":"20 years, she's fought"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":84.58,"endTime":87.82,"body":"passionately to put queer lives"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":84.58,"endTime":87.82,"body":"at the center of knowledge"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":87.82,"endTime":92.62,"body":"making obsessively immersing"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":87.82,"endTime":92.62,"body":"herself in queer theory as a"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":92.62,"endTime":97.51,"body":"survival skill. She wonders how"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":92.62,"endTime":97.51,"body":"we as queer people can reshape"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":97.54,"endTime":101.8,"body":"our relationship to power and"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":97.54,"endTime":101.8,"body":"resist oppressive forces to take"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":101.8,"endTime":105.91,"body":"up more space. Initially, she"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":101.8,"endTime":105.91,"body":"qualified as a psychologist in"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":105.91,"endTime":111.91,"body":"Australia, and then as a family"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":105.91,"endTime":111.91,"body":"and systemic practice. As family"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":111.91,"endTime":116.17,"body":"and systemic psychotherapist in"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":111.91,"endTime":116.17,"body":"the UK, a UKCP registered"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":116.17,"endTime":119.95,"body":"psychotherapist in independent"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":116.17,"endTime":119.95,"body":"practice. Amanda works primarily"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":119.95,"endTime":124.12,"body":"with relationships, gender, sex,"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":119.95,"endTime":124.12,"body":"and sexuality, specializing"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":124.12,"endTime":129.1,"body":"within the LGBT IQ communities."},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":124.12,"endTime":129.1,"body":"She has extensive experience in"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":129.1,"endTime":132.76,"body":"the NHS and social care, and has"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":129.1,"endTime":132.76,"body":"previously worked as a"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":132.76,"endTime":137.92,"body":"specialist in the areas of sex"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":132.76,"endTime":137.92,"body":"and sexuality, dual diagnosis,"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":137.95,"endTime":141.85,"body":"HIV and sexual health, drug and"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":137.95,"endTime":141.85,"body":"alcohol use and domestic"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":141.85,"endTime":146.56,"body":"violence. Her practice is the"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":141.85,"endTime":146.56,"body":"pink practice and she is also an"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":146.56,"endTime":150.88,"body":"Associate Lecturer at the"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":146.56,"endTime":150.88,"body":"Tavistock and Portman trust and"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":150.88,"endTime":153.31,"body":"supervisor at Gendered"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":150.88,"endTime":153.31,"body":"Intelligence."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":155.94,"endTime":158.76,"body":"And last but not"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":155.94,"endTime":158.76,"body":"least, we have Neil Young, who's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":158.76,"endTime":161.73,"body":"an integrative art"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":158.76,"endTime":161.73,"body":"psychotherapist, working in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":161.73,"endTime":165.27,"body":"private practice with a diverse"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":161.73,"endTime":165.27,"body":"group of people especially in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":165.27,"endTime":168.81,"body":"terms of gender, race, age,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":165.27,"endTime":168.81,"body":"class, sexuality, and neuro"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":168.81,"endTime":172.83,"body":"diversity. He teaches on various"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":168.81,"endTime":172.83,"body":"therapy trainings, including the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":172.83,"endTime":176.7,"body":"Institute for Art, Dance Therapy"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":172.83,"endTime":176.7,"body":"and Education. He offers"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":176.7,"endTime":180.3,"body":"workshops, training, lectures,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":176.7,"endTime":180.3,"body":"and embodied performances"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":180.3,"endTime":184.38,"body":"specializing in gender and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":180.3,"endTime":184.38,"body":"sexuality broader intersectional"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":184.38,"endTime":189.0,"body":"difference, including an anti"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":184.38,"endTime":189.0,"body":"racist class aware position, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":189.0,"endTime":192.12,"body":"dance movement as a means of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":189.0,"endTime":192.12,"body":"connecting to self and others."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":192.54,"endTime":196.5,"body":"Neil also work as a consultant"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":192.54,"endTime":196.5,"body":"trainer for organizations such"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":196.5,"endTime":201.45,"body":"as Kusum, the sunflower network,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":196.5,"endTime":201.45,"body":"enjoys creating open safe spaces"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":201.48,"endTime":204.3,"body":"that encourage curious"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":201.48,"endTime":204.3,"body":"exploration and increase"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":204.33,"endTime":209.19,"body":"understanding. And in 2022, Neil"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":204.33,"endTime":209.19,"body":"co wrote a chapter on queer"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":209.19,"endTime":212.85,"body":"children, Don't Panic Queering"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":209.19,"endTime":212.85,"body":"the Child as part of the ground"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":212.85,"endTime":215.46,"body":"based, groundbreaking queering"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":212.85,"endTime":215.46,"body":"psychotherapy book,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":215.79,"endTime":222.69,"body":"Welcome everyone. It might be a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":215.79,"endTime":222.69,"body":"good place to start. And maybe"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":222.69,"endTime":225.24,"body":"if we could just maybe have a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":222.69,"endTime":225.24,"body":"little bit of a discussion or"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":225.24,"endTime":228.3,"body":"exploration around the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":225.24,"endTime":228.3,"body":"motivation behind the book, what"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":228.3,"endTime":232.68,"body":"kind of what kind of pushed you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":228.3,"endTime":232.68,"body":"all to kind of come together and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":232.68,"endTime":233.88,"body":"bring this book out?"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":235.8,"endTime":237.84,"body":"Thanks,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":235.8,"endTime":237.84,"body":"Peter, and Caz."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":239.16,"endTime":242.64,"body":"Yeah, I just just before I"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":239.16,"endTime":242.64,"body":"answer that, I wanted to thank"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":242.64,"endTime":246.51,"body":"you for hosting us. Some of us"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":242.64,"endTime":246.51,"body":"from creating psychotherapy"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":246.96,"endTime":251.55,"body":"feels really good to be held"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":246.96,"endTime":251.55,"body":"that virtually by you and by the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":251.55,"endTime":259.05,"body":"Therapist Connect community. I"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":251.55,"endTime":259.05,"body":"also, as always want to thank my"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":259.05,"endTime":261.96,"body":"co contributors and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":259.05,"endTime":261.96,"body":"coconspirators here today."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":262.5,"endTime":267.9,"body":"Ellis, Amanda and Neil. I've"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":262.5,"endTime":267.9,"body":"said it before, I'll say again,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":267.9,"endTime":271.8,"body":"what you all put out into the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":267.9,"endTime":271.8,"body":"world continues to teach and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":271.8,"endTime":273.27,"body":"inspire me so thank you."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":275.55,"endTime":280.2,"body":"I'm Chance Czyzselska -"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":275.55,"endTime":280.2,"body":"psychotherapist, and they/then"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":280.2,"endTime":280.98,"body":"pronouns."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":283.81,"endTime":287.32,"body":"So you asked about the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":283.81,"endTime":287.32,"body":"motivation for why we co created"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":287.35,"endTime":291.52,"body":"queering psychotherapy and I was"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":287.35,"endTime":291.52,"body":"looking at some research a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":291.52,"endTime":296.23,"body":"couple of years ago and found"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":291.52,"endTime":296.23,"body":"out that LGBTIQ plus people are"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":296.23,"endTime":299.92,"body":"more likely than cisgender and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":296.23,"endTime":299.92,"body":"heterosexual people to suffer"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":299.92,"endTime":304.75,"body":"with mental health issues yet,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":299.92,"endTime":304.75,"body":"often in therapy we have poor"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":304.84,"endTime":310.93,"body":"outcomes. So I knew that this"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":304.84,"endTime":310.93,"body":"research, in tandem with the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":311.2,"endTime":315.13,"body":"anecdotal experiences and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":311.2,"endTime":315.13,"body":"examples that I'd had I'd heard"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":315.13,"endTime":319.69,"body":"about meant that, you know, I"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":315.13,"endTime":319.69,"body":"felt something had to be done."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":321.07,"endTime":325.57,"body":"Because when I was learning in"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":321.07,"endTime":325.57,"body":"my training, you know, about a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":325.57,"endTime":327.97,"body":"million years ago, it wasn't"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":325.57,"endTime":327.97,"body":"even that long ago was about 10"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":327.97,"endTime":333.22,"body":"years ago, in Eurocentric"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":327.97,"endTime":333.22,"body":"psychotherapeutic theories,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":333.4,"endTime":337.87,"body":"which were developed largely by"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":333.4,"endTime":337.87,"body":"heterosexual cisgender and white"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":337.87,"endTime":342.76,"body":"theorists was that queer"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":337.87,"endTime":342.76,"body":"individuals are often seen as a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":342.76,"endTime":348.49,"body":"singular group, through an"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":342.76,"endTime":348.49,"body":"othered lens. And so my"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":348.49,"endTime":351.91,"body":"experience in my own training,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":348.49,"endTime":351.91,"body":"and also in some of the therapy"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":351.91,"endTime":356.89,"body":"relationships I've had, was one"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":351.91,"endTime":356.89,"body":"of discomforts, in, you know,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":357.61,"endTime":361.81,"body":"many kinds of situations, but in"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":357.61,"endTime":361.81,"body":"amongst that, you know, I also"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":361.81,"endTime":364.66,"body":"was, was sick, you know,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":361.81,"endTime":364.66,"body":"receiving profound learning and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":364.66,"endTime":372.13,"body":"healing. So, despite, you know,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":364.66,"endTime":372.13,"body":"the value that comes from these"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":372.16,"endTime":375.64,"body":"many of these theories that"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":372.16,"endTime":375.64,"body":"we've learned in our primary"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":375.64,"endTime":382.63,"body":"trainings, and also CPDs."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":375.64,"endTime":382.63,"body":"Subsequently, we, you know, can"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":382.63,"endTime":386.44,"body":"often end up pathologizing and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":382.63,"endTime":386.44,"body":"marginalizing and diminishing"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":386.47,"endTime":390.04,"body":"queer and trans lives. Even if"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":386.47,"endTime":390.04,"body":"we're queer and trans ourselves,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":390.04,"endTime":393.43,"body":"you know, we can we all"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":390.04,"endTime":393.43,"body":"internalize this stuff. You"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":393.43,"endTime":395.44,"body":"know, it's not just the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":393.43,"endTime":395.44,"body":"trainings, but the trainings"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":395.44,"endTime":400.39,"body":"that come from, you know, the,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":395.44,"endTime":400.39,"body":"you know, the socio political"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":400.39,"endTime":405.85,"body":"context. That's an example of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":400.39,"endTime":405.85,"body":"the kind of history of this you"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":405.85,"endTime":408.46,"body":"know, in Britain,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":405.85,"endTime":408.46,"body":"psychoanalytical organizations"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":408.46,"endTime":411.55,"body":"only apologize for labeling"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":408.46,"endTime":411.55,"body":"homosexuality as an illness"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":411.55,"endTime":415.87,"body":"around 10 years ago. And in"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":411.55,"endTime":415.87,"body":"America, it was just a few years"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":415.87,"endTime":421.51,"body":"ago, in 2019. In fact, I was"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":415.87,"endTime":421.51,"body":"looking into some of the kind of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":421.54,"endTime":427.18,"body":"harm that has happened within"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":421.54,"endTime":427.18,"body":"our profession, and I saw a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":427.18,"endTime":429.85,"body":"paper that was written on them"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":427.18,"endTime":429.85,"body":"and admittedly was 1979. But"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":429.85,"endTime":434.23,"body":"still, there's a psychoanalyst."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":429.85,"endTime":434.23,"body":"It's called [name], who was at"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":434.23,"endTime":436.36,"body":"the time of president, the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":434.23,"endTime":436.36,"body":"president of the British"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":436.36,"endTime":441.46,"body":"Psychoanalytic Society. And he"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":436.36,"endTime":441.46,"body":"wrote that homosexuality should"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":441.46,"endTime":444.61,"body":"be understood as a defensive"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":441.46,"endTime":444.61,"body":"solution to a variety of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":444.61,"endTime":447.76,"body":"neurotic and psychotic problems."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":444.61,"endTime":447.76,"body":"So you know, what you were"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":447.76,"endTime":452.59,"body":"talking about earlier Caz, the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":447.76,"endTime":452.59,"body":"homophobia, you know, has, has"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":452.59,"endTime":458.53,"body":"long roots and back into"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":452.59,"endTime":458.53,"body":"society, in history, and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":458.89,"endTime":461.77,"body":"culturally and, you know,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":458.89,"endTime":461.77,"body":"obviously, within our"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":461.77,"endTime":466.57,"body":"profession, and it's a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":461.77,"endTime":466.57,"body":"problematic legacy. Obviously,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":466.57,"endTime":470.35,"body":"there's been feminist and queer"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":466.57,"endTime":470.35,"body":"and lesbian and gay and trans"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":470.35,"endTime":472.93,"body":"practitioners who have critiqued"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":470.35,"endTime":472.93,"body":"these theories and continue to"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":472.93,"endTime":476.2,"body":"do so and you know, many are in"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":472.93,"endTime":476.2,"body":"the book or are referenced in"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":476.2,"endTime":481.3,"body":"the book, but our profession and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":476.2,"endTime":481.3,"body":"you know, psychotherapy and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":481.3,"endTime":484.33,"body":"psychoanalysis have tended to"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":481.3,"endTime":484.33,"body":"locate the problem in the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":484.33,"endTime":489.1,"body":"individual or their family and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":484.33,"endTime":489.1,"body":"rarely acknowledge or understand"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":489.1,"endTime":492.79,"body":"how factors such as sexuality"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":489.1,"endTime":492.79,"body":"and gender and race and class,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":493.54,"endTime":499.84,"body":"have impact on clients lived"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":493.54,"endTime":499.84,"body":"experiences. In fact, were often"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":500.68,"endTime":504.01,"body":"considered, you know, our"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":500.68,"endTime":504.01,"body":"difference or otherness, you"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":504.01,"endTime":507.16,"body":"know, is often considered to be"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":504.01,"endTime":507.16,"body":"the source of our problems,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":508.0,"endTime":511.63,"body":"rather than the fact that we"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":508.0,"endTime":511.63,"body":"live in a world that devalues"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":511.93,"endTime":515.68,"body":"and denigrate certain"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":511.93,"endTime":515.68,"body":"embodiments while avoiding"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":516.25,"endTime":518.44,"body":"others and expecting everyone to"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":516.25,"endTime":518.44,"body":"be white and cis and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":518.44,"endTime":525.61,"body":"heterosexual. I mean, I've heard"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":518.44,"endTime":525.61,"body":"countless times from people"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":525.64,"endTime":528.19,"body":"who've been in therapy who said"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":525.64,"endTime":528.19,"body":"they've been misgendered or"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":528.19,"endTime":531.49,"body":"shamed about their sexuality, or"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":528.19,"endTime":531.49,"body":"when they talk about racism with"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":531.49,"endTime":535.75,"body":"a white therapist, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":531.49,"endTime":535.75,"body":"they've been pathologized or"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":535.75,"endTime":540.22,"body":"problematized, and othered by"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":535.75,"endTime":540.22,"body":"therapists, which is, you know,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":540.22,"endTime":545.62,"body":"no place any client wants to be."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":540.22,"endTime":545.62,"body":"Queering psychotherapy is an"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":545.62,"endTime":551.44,"body":"antidote to that. And what we're"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":545.62,"endTime":551.44,"body":"doing throughout the chapters is"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":551.5,"endTime":553.9,"body":"is attempting to make visible"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":551.5,"endTime":553.9,"body":"there's the structural"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":553.9,"endTime":559.3,"body":"inequalities that that impact"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":553.9,"endTime":559.3,"body":"clients lives and, you know, who"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":559.3,"endTime":563.77,"body":"are queer or trans or ... or any"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":559.3,"endTime":563.77,"body":"clients who have identities or"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":563.77,"endTime":568.33,"body":"aspects that fall outside of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":563.77,"endTime":568.33,"body":"what's normatively expected? Or"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":568.33,"endTime":572.17,"body":"of what Jake Yearsley in, in his"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":568.33,"endTime":572.17,"body":"chapter calls the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":572.17,"endTime":578.32,"body":"heteronormative trance, which is"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":572.17,"endTime":578.32,"body":"a phrase I really love. So it's"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":578.32,"endTime":581.74,"body":"in this context that we and our"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":578.32,"endTime":581.74,"body":"clients find ourselves in a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":581.74,"endTime":585.07,"body":"mental health crisis,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":581.74,"endTime":585.07,"body":"particularly among trans and ..."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":585.07,"endTime":589.24,"body":"clients who are bombarded with"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":585.07,"endTime":589.24,"body":"hate day in and day out. And I"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":589.24,"endTime":591.94,"body":"was shocked to discover recently"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":589.24,"endTime":591.94,"body":"when I was reading something, I"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":591.94,"endTime":595.03,"body":"think it was, I can't remember"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":591.94,"endTime":595.03,"body":"which publication it was, but"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":595.81,"endTime":599.56,"body":"apparently in the last 10 years"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":595.81,"endTime":599.56,"body":"hate crimes against LGBTIQ plus"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":599.56,"endTime":609.22,"body":"people in UK has risen by 349%,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":599.56,"endTime":609.22,"body":"349%!!!. And, you know, yes, all"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":609.22,"endTime":611.35,"body":"sorts of things have happened,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":609.22,"endTime":611.35,"body":"you know, we've become more"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":611.35,"endTime":615.19,"body":"visible and maybe that's part of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":611.35,"endTime":615.19,"body":"why, you know, there's such a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":615.19,"endTime":618.31,"body":"backlash, you know, that's often"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":615.19,"endTime":618.31,"body":"the way isn't there is a kind of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":618.31,"endTime":623.29,"body":"liberation movement that happens"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":618.31,"endTime":623.29,"body":"and there's more visibility and,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":623.35,"endTime":627.61,"body":"and the backlash, but it's, it's"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":623.35,"endTime":627.61,"body":"a horrendous kind of context and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":627.67,"endTime":633.55,"body":"to be living in. So whether"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":627.67,"endTime":633.55,"body":"you're a therapist or in therapy"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":633.55,"endTime":638.44,"body":"or just interested in therapy"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":633.55,"endTime":638.44,"body":"queering psychotherapy is an"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":638.56,"endTime":642.55,"body":"accessible, radical, joyful"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":638.56,"endTime":642.55,"body":"healing collection of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":642.55,"endTime":645.07,"body":"conversations, and they are"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":642.55,"endTime":645.07,"body":"conversation, some are, some are"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":645.07,"endTime":648.67,"body":"written, but some part of the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":645.07,"endTime":648.67,"body":"whole kind of queering and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":648.67,"endTime":655.75,"body":"decolonizing practice of the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":648.67,"endTime":655.75,"body":"book was to write in a more"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":655.75,"endTime":659.14,"body":"accessible way, so to have a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":655.75,"endTime":659.14,"body":"conversation between different"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":659.14,"endTime":666.46,"body":"practitioners about, you know,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":659.14,"endTime":666.46,"body":"certain issues arising in, you"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":666.46,"endTime":672.22,"body":"know, the course of our lives"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":666.46,"endTime":672.22,"body":"and clients lives. And I think"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":672.22,"endTime":676.42,"body":"that's what what has made the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":672.22,"endTime":676.42,"body":"book so popular, it's, uh, you"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":676.42,"endTime":683.11,"body":"know, it's very accessible. And"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":676.42,"endTime":683.11,"body":"yeah, really kind of reflects"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":683.11,"endTime":688.39,"body":"some of the dynamism of the, of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":683.11,"endTime":688.39,"body":"the therapeutic dyad."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":689.56,"endTime":692.26,"body":"One of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":689.56,"endTime":692.26,"body":"phrases that's used in the, in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":692.26,"endTime":696.4,"body":"the acknowledgement section is"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":692.26,"endTime":696.4,"body":"that it's a fusion. And I just"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":696.4,"endTime":699.46,"body":"really, really liked that word,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":696.4,"endTime":699.46,"body":"because I just thought it really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":699.46,"endTime":703.9,"body":"represents kind of all these"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":699.46,"endTime":703.9,"body":"different approaches and ways of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":703.9,"endTime":707.86,"body":"understanding things all coming"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":703.9,"endTime":707.86,"body":"together. And, yeah, I really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":707.86,"endTime":709.18,"body":"appreciate that about the book."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":710.35,"endTime":712.78,"body":"It is a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":710.35,"endTime":712.78,"body":"fusion and it's infused with,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":713.56,"endTime":719.2,"body":"you know, all sorts of, you"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":713.56,"endTime":719.2,"body":"know, really enlivening, you"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":719.2,"endTime":725.08,"body":"know, sort of aspects of lived"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":719.2,"endTime":725.08,"body":"experience. So it feels Yeah, it"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":725.08,"endTime":730.99,"body":"feels very live and dynamic and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":725.08,"endTime":730.99,"body":"not dry. And as a lot of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":731.41,"endTime":736.21,"body":"academic theory can. I'll read"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":731.41,"endTime":736.21,"body":"you a little bit from the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":736.24,"endTime":738.73,"body":"opening chapter, if you like my"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":736.24,"endTime":738.73,"body":"introduction."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":738.0,"endTime":742.222,"body":"In spring 2020, the COVID 19"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":738.0,"endTime":742.222,"body":"pandemic and national lockdown"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":738.0,"endTime":961.68,"body":"I think I'll leave it there for"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":738.0,"endTime":961.68,"body":"now. I'd love to see what many"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":742.293,"endTime":746.659,"body":"started to change lives as we"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":742.293,"endTime":746.659,"body":"have lived them. workplaces and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":746.731,"endTime":750.738,"body":"meeting spaces emptied like"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":746.731,"endTime":750.738,"body":"caves, days and weeks slowed"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":750.81,"endTime":755.318,"body":"down. Roads cleared of traffic,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":750.81,"endTime":755.318,"body":"first quiet and birdsong. Space"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":755.39,"endTime":759.04,"body":"opened up for collaborative"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":755.39,"endTime":759.04,"body":"psychotherapeutic cross"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":759.111,"endTime":762.904,"body":"fertilization. Following a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":759.111,"endTime":762.904,"body":"conversation with Dr. Gail"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":762.976,"endTime":767.341,"body":"Lewis, in which she notes some"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":762.976,"endTime":767.341,"body":"of the ways that black lesbian"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":767.413,"endTime":771.779,"body":"poet and author Audrey Lourdes"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":767.413,"endTime":771.779,"body":"ideas seem to echo the work of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":771.85,"endTime":775.786,"body":"white heterosexual male"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":771.85,"endTime":775.786,"body":"psychoanalyst and Wilfred Bion."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":775.858,"endTime":780.295,"body":"I reread Lourdes poetry is not a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":775.858,"endTime":780.295,"body":"luxury, and was struck by the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":780.366,"endTime":783.873,"body":"therapeutic message in her"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":780.366,"endTime":783.873,"body":"description of poetry."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":783.945,"endTime":787.809,"body":"Reflecting on the form as a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":783.945,"endTime":787.809,"body":"revelatory distillation of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":787.881,"endTime":791.674,"body":"experience that makes it"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":787.881,"endTime":791.674,"body":"possible to give name to the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":791.745,"endTime":795.538,"body":"nameless so it can be thought"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":791.745,"endTime":795.538,"body":"Lourdes words sound not"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":795.61,"endTime":799.618,"body":"dissimilar to what white"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":795.61,"endTime":799.618,"body":"psychoanalyst Christopher Bolus"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":799.689,"endTime":803.697,"body":"conceived with his unsought"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":799.689,"endTime":803.697,"body":"known for the exploration of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":803.768,"endTime":808.277,"body":"what we unconsciously learn of"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":803.768,"endTime":808.277,"body":"the object world as infants, and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":808.349,"endTime":812.285,"body":"how we can harness it in the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":808.349,"endTime":812.285,"body":"service of our psyches. It"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":812.356,"endTime":816.722,"body":"wasn't the first time I'd felt"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":812.356,"endTime":816.722,"body":"Lourdes words convey something"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":816.793,"endTime":821.016,"body":"vitally important about how we"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":816.793,"endTime":821.016,"body":"can examine and regulate our"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":821.087,"endTime":825.31,"body":"emotions. So it's not only"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":821.087,"endTime":825.31,"body":"poetry that is a vital place for"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":825.381,"endTime":828.817,"body":"self reflection, and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":825.381,"endTime":828.817,"body":"understanding, as I believe"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":828.888,"endTime":832.967,"body":"therapy can also be, but also"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":828.888,"endTime":832.967,"body":"decolonial, black, lesbian,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":833.039,"endTime":836.832,"body":"feminist, queer and trans"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":833.039,"endTime":836.832,"body":"perspectives that can bring"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":836.903,"endTime":840.768,"body":"richness to our profession. A"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":836.903,"endTime":840.768,"body":"richness that often goes"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":840.84,"endTime":845.062,"body":"unacknowledged, or is even"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":840.84,"endTime":845.062,"body":"rejected as too political, as if"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":845.134,"endTime":848.927,"body":"the therapy encounter is a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":845.134,"endTime":848.927,"body":"politics free space. It is"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":848.998,"endTime":853.507,"body":"because of the politics inherent"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":848.998,"endTime":853.507,"body":"in our lives, the inequalities"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":853.578,"endTime":857.944,"body":"that are endemic to it. That"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":853.578,"endTime":857.944,"body":"therapy, however, can often be a"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":858.015,"endTime":862.023,"body":"luxury and also a privilege,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":858.015,"endTime":862.023,"body":"especially for those in the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":862.095,"endTime":865.315,"body":"LGBTIQA plus and ..."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":862.095,"endTime":865.315,"body":"communities. Therapeutic"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":865.387,"endTime":869.824,"body":"outcomes for these client groups"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":865.387,"endTime":869.824,"body":"also varied perhaps sometimes"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":869.895,"endTime":873.831,"body":"because of this unwillingness to"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":869.895,"endTime":873.831,"body":"accept that all of our"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":873.903,"endTime":877.768,"body":"identities are politicized out"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":873.903,"endTime":877.768,"body":"under white, cis hetero"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":877.839,"endTime":882.205,"body":"patriarchy. Indeed Crawford et"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":877.839,"endTime":882.205,"body":"al., in 2018 found that people"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":882.276,"endTime":885.998,"body":"from sexual and ethnic"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":882.276,"endTime":885.998,"body":"minorities are more likely to"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":886.069,"endTime":890.435,"body":"report experiencing lasting bad"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":886.069,"endTime":890.435,"body":"effects in therapy. Rhymes et"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":890.506,"endTime":894.8,"body":"al., in 2019 also found that"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":890.506,"endTime":894.8,"body":"compared to heterosexual women,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":894.872,"endTime":899.309,"body":"lesbian and bisexual women had"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":894.872,"endTime":899.309,"body":"higher final session a severity"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":899.38,"endTime":903.173,"body":"for depression, anxiety and"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":899.38,"endTime":903.173,"body":"functional impairment. An"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":903.245,"endTime":907.825,"body":"increased risk of not attaining"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":903.245,"endTime":907.825,"body":"reliable recovery in depression,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":907.897,"endTime":911.904,"body":"anxiety or functioning. Similar"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":907.897,"endTime":911.904,"body":"results were found among"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":911.976,"endTime":916.127,"body":"bisexual men. In research by"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":911.976,"endTime":916.127,"body":"Stonewall, in 2018. One in 20"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":916.198,"endTime":920.421,"body":"LGBT people and one in five"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":916.198,"endTime":920.421,"body":"trans people reported that they"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":920.492,"endTime":924.786,"body":"had been pressured to access"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":920.492,"endTime":924.786,"body":"services or change to change or"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":924.858,"endTime":928.293,"body":"suppress their sexual"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":924.858,"endTime":928.293,"body":"orientation, and or gender"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":928.365,"endTime":932.587,"body":"identity. Therapists already"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":928.365,"endTime":932.587,"body":"have an ethical obligation not"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":932.659,"endTime":936.881,"body":"to practice so called Conversion"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":932.659,"endTime":936.881,"body":"Therapy. But these harmful"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":936.952,"endTime":940.817,"body":"practices do take place."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":936.952,"endTime":940.817,"body":"Further, as this book goes to"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":940.889,"endTime":944.896,"body":"press many therapists are"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":940.889,"endTime":944.896,"body":"expressing their opposition to"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":944.968,"endTime":948.976,"body":"the government decision to"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":944.968,"endTime":948.976,"body":"exclude trans people from the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":949.047,"endTime":953.198,"body":"ban on so called Conversion"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":949.047,"endTime":953.198,"body":"Therapy practices, despite the"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":953.269,"endTime":957.492,"body":"fact that more recent study,"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":953.269,"endTime":957.492,"body":"statistics indicate that trans"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":957.563,"endTime":961.571,"body":"people are twice as likely as"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":957.563,"endTime":961.571,"body":"cisgender LGB people to be"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":961.643,"endTime":965.507,"body":"offered or subjected to"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":961.643,"endTime":965.507,"body":"conversion practices. And that"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":961.68,"endTime":967.44,"body":"of my colleagues would like to"},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":961.68,"endTime":967.44,"body":"say, feel moved to say."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":965.579,"endTime":967.44,"body":"was from research in 2022."},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":974.65,"endTime":977.98,"body":"Thank you Chance,"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":974.65,"endTime":977.98,"body":"I mean, inviting anyone else to"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":977.98,"endTime":982.39,"body":"jump in. It might be useful if"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":977.98,"endTime":982.39,"body":"you do jump in and just say what"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":982.39,"endTime":985.87,"body":"the name of your chapter and"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":982.39,"endTime":985.87,"body":"chapter you're involved in is,"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":985.9,"endTime":990.7,"body":"is called. I mean, I agree with"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":985.9,"endTime":990.7,"body":"Chance about the accessibility"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":990.7,"endTime":995.59,"body":"of this book. And I know a"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":990.7,"endTime":995.59,"body":"couple of you here took part in"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":995.59,"endTime":1000.36,"body":"kind of interview style. Well,"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":995.59,"endTime":1000.36,"body":"an interview style in the"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":1000.36,"endTime":1008.19,"body":"chapters. How how do people find"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":1000.36,"endTime":1008.19,"body":"that? Was that your choice? Or"},{"speaker":"Caz Binstead","startTime":1008.67,"endTime":1014.16,"body":"Chances? Or?"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1014.07,"endTime":1017.886,"body":"Happy to jump in?"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1014.07,"endTime":1017.886,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Caz."},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1017.965,"endTime":1022.417,"body":"Thank you Chance also for"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1017.965,"endTime":1022.417,"body":"getting us kicked off and, and"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1022.497,"endTime":1027.346,"body":"reminding us about the context"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1022.497,"endTime":1027.346,"body":"of the book. Because it was it"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1027.426,"endTime":1032.116,"body":"was quite a long time ago. Now."},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1027.426,"endTime":1032.116,"body":"Actually, I think we all we"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1032.196,"endTime":1036.171,"body":"started to pull all this"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1032.196,"endTime":1036.171,"body":"together. And so yeah, my"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1036.25,"endTime":1041.179,"body":"chapter is on working with trans"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1036.25,"endTime":1041.179,"body":"and gender expansive clients."},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1041.259,"endTime":1046.029,"body":"And I really find it really"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1041.259,"endTime":1046.029,"body":"generative to be in conversation"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1046.108,"endTime":1050.64,"body":"with chance. And when we had,"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1046.108,"endTime":1050.64,"body":"you know, a couple of broad"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1050.719,"endTime":1055.489,"body":"questions to kind of, did you"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1050.719,"endTime":1055.489,"body":"want to sit with, and but what"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1055.569,"endTime":1059.941,"body":"came out of the conversation"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1055.569,"endTime":1059.941,"body":"was, was much deeper, much"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1060.021,"endTime":1064.711,"body":"richer than anything I could"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1060.021,"endTime":1064.711,"body":"have just kind of come up with"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1064.791,"endTime":1069.561,"body":"on my, on my own. So I think"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1064.791,"endTime":1069.561,"body":"that was a really Yeah, really."},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1069.64,"endTime":1074.331,"body":"Yeah, enjoyable way of kind of"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1069.64,"endTime":1074.331,"body":"coming together. And I think"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1074.41,"endTime":1079.339,"body":"you'll hear me speak about this"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1074.41,"endTime":1079.339,"body":"Chance. A couple of words, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1079.419,"endTime":1084.507,"body":"sitting with the  main word I'm"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1079.419,"endTime":1084.507,"body":"sitting with is centering, or re"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1084.586,"endTime":1089.277,"body":"centering or decentering. What"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1084.586,"endTime":1089.277,"body":"we understand as sort of the"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1089.356,"endTime":1094.206,"body":"parameters of, of normal, human"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1089.356,"endTime":1094.206,"body":"behavior, human behavior. And"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1094.285,"endTime":1098.34,"body":"with this book, what we're"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1094.285,"endTime":1098.34,"body":"trying to do, is, is, is"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1098.419,"endTime":1103.507,"body":"recenter, queer, trans, intersex"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1098.419,"endTime":1103.507,"body":"experiences is not being on the"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1103.587,"endTime":1107.88,"body":"margins of humanity, we're not"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1103.587,"endTime":1107.88,"body":"on the margins of human"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1107.959,"endTime":1112.65,"body":"experience. But actually, we're"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1107.959,"endTime":1112.65,"body":"right in the middle. And we"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1112.729,"endTime":1117.499,"body":"represent something that is, is"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1112.729,"endTime":1117.499,"body":"what everybody, actually and"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1117.579,"endTime":1122.428,"body":"that's why I'm also interested"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1117.579,"endTime":1122.428,"body":"in using you know, the acronym"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1122.508,"endTime":1127.119,"body":"GSRD instead of LGBTQIA plus, so"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1122.508,"endTime":1127.119,"body":"GSRDS is, gender, sex and"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1127.198,"endTime":1132.286,"body":"relationship diversity. And that"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1127.198,"endTime":1132.286,"body":"acronym sort of demonstrates, I"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1132.366,"endTime":1137.215,"body":"suppose that everybody has a"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1132.366,"endTime":1137.215,"body":"gender everybody has a sexuality"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1137.295,"endTime":1142.224,"body":"or relationships and sexuality."},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1137.295,"endTime":1142.224,"body":"Everyone has a relationship to"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1142.303,"endTime":1146.914,"body":"their relationship style. So"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1142.303,"endTime":1146.914,"body":"this work is not just for us,"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1146.994,"endTime":1151.446,"body":"but in centering the most"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1146.994,"endTime":1151.446,"body":"marginalized people. It shifts"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1151.525,"endTime":1155.977,"body":"the whole conversation for"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1151.525,"endTime":1155.977,"body":"everyone. We shift this whole"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1156.057,"endTime":1160.906,"body":"the whole lens. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1156.057,"endTime":1160.906,"body":"as queer trans people, it kind"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1160.986,"endTime":1165.756,"body":"of comes naturally to us, I"},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1160.986,"endTime":1165.756,"body":"think, to do that. We're used to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1161.48,"endTime":1188.87,"body":"And I also had"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1161.48,"endTime":1188.87,"body":"the I think, advantage of being"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1165.835,"endTime":1170.764,"body":"doing that. So you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1165.835,"endTime":1170.764,"body":"such a, it's such a privilege to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1170.844,"endTime":1175.693,"body":"be involved with this. And I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1170.844,"endTime":1175.693,"body":"think the feedback we're getting"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1175.773,"endTime":1180.702,"body":"already is is really exciting."},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1175.773,"endTime":1180.702,"body":"Yeah, Amanda, Neil, I dont know"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1180.781,"endTime":1182.61,"body":"if you want to jump in."},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1188.87,"endTime":1193.52,"body":"in conversation with Chance, in"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1188.87,"endTime":1193.52,"body":"order to create the chapter. And"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1193.52,"endTime":1196.76,"body":"for me, there was something"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1193.52,"endTime":1196.76,"body":"really kind of alive and quick"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1196.76,"endTime":1201.14,"body":"about it, in terms of it being a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1196.76,"endTime":1201.14,"body":"conversation, and I think in"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1201.14,"endTime":1205.25,"body":"terms of the book feels, from I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1201.14,"endTime":1205.25,"body":"know, books take forever. And I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1205.25,"endTime":1209.15,"body":"know Chance you labored hard on"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1205.25,"endTime":1209.15,"body":"this. But there is still"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1209.15,"endTime":1212.63,"body":"something quite fast about this"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1209.15,"endTime":1212.63,"body":"book. And I appreciate that,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1212.9,"endTime":1216.02,"body":"because from conversation to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1212.9,"endTime":1216.02,"body":"publishing was a couple of"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1216.02,"endTime":1219.71,"body":"years. But if we think about the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1216.02,"endTime":1219.71,"body":"academic publishing cycle, which"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1219.71,"endTime":1223.91,"body":"is like five to seven years, it"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1219.71,"endTime":1223.91,"body":"means that really important"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1223.91,"endTime":1226.76,"body":"conversations that are happening"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1223.91,"endTime":1226.76,"body":"right now can be in people's"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1226.76,"endTime":1231.98,"body":"hands, and extended. And I think"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1226.76,"endTime":1231.98,"body":"the format also worked for me,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1231.98,"endTime":1234.68,"body":"because I'm dyslexic. So if I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1231.98,"endTime":1234.68,"body":"had to write it, it would take"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1234.68,"endTime":1238.37,"body":"forever, and maybe not happen."},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1234.68,"endTime":1238.37,"body":"And there's something about"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1238.37,"endTime":1242.18,"body":"valuing an oral tradition, you"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1238.37,"endTime":1242.18,"body":"know, therapy is such an oral"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1242.18,"endTime":1245.36,"body":"tradition. And yet, our"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1242.18,"endTime":1245.36,"body":"knowledge is often held when I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1245.36,"endTime":1247.88,"body":"trained therapists because,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1245.36,"endTime":1247.88,"body":"well, I haven't read enough or I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1247.88,"endTime":1250.85,"body":"haven't done this. And our"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1247.88,"endTime":1250.85,"body":"relationship to reading is a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1250.85,"endTime":1254.81,"body":"huge part of our relationship to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1250.85,"endTime":1254.81,"body":"being therapists, I think, and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1254.81,"endTime":1258.08,"body":"how we feel sort of competent"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1254.81,"endTime":1258.08,"body":"and up to date, yet it is an"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1258.08,"endTime":1262.55,"body":"oral tradition, based on the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1258.08,"endTime":1262.55,"body":"oral traditions of healing and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1262.55,"endTime":1266.24,"body":"storytelling and being with"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1262.55,"endTime":1266.24,"body":"people in conversation and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1266.24,"endTime":1269.75,"body":"connecting. And so that's where"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1266.24,"endTime":1269.75,"body":"it feels like the book does"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1269.75,"endTime":1273.41,"body":"mirror the practice, the form"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1269.75,"endTime":1273.41,"body":"and function thing, which I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1273.41,"endTime":1279.02,"body":"really appreciate about it as"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1273.41,"endTime":1279.02,"body":"well. Neil, I can't remember"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1279.02,"endTime":1280.67,"body":"whether you were interviewed or"},{"speaker":"Amanda Middleton","startTime":1279.02,"endTime":1280.67,"body":"whether you wrote."},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1282.1,"endTime":1284.65,"body":"Well, it was kind of"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1282.1,"endTime":1284.65,"body":"we found out as we went, so I"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1284.65,"endTime":1288.19,"body":"guess, chapter I co wrote, and I"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1284.65,"endTime":1288.19,"body":"should say that Paul Harrison,"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1288.25,"endTime":1292.72,"body":"and Benjamin, were my co"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1288.25,"endTime":1292.72,"body":"authors. And it really was the"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1292.72,"endTime":1296.05,"body":"three of us with Chance's"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1292.72,"endTime":1296.05,"body":"support really, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1296.08,"endTime":1299.05,"body":"talking to chance, and then sort"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1296.08,"endTime":1299.05,"body":"of it developed, it was more"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1299.05,"endTime":1302.83,"body":"like, we ended up talking the"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1299.05,"endTime":1302.83,"body":"three of us every month for six"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1302.83,"endTime":1306.64,"body":"months, we were a bit like, how"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1302.83,"endTime":1306.64,"body":"do we hold on to what can become"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1306.64,"endTime":1311.71,"body":"very slippery knowledge in a"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1306.64,"endTime":1311.71,"body":"culture that, I don't know, I"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1311.71,"endTime":1313.84,"body":"quite liked this phrase, I was"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1311.71,"endTime":1313.84,"body":"thinking, I think I heard it by"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1313.84,"endTime":1317.62,"body":"some sort of drag program. But"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1313.84,"endTime":1317.62,"body":"this idea that we're all groomed"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1317.62,"endTime":1321.34,"body":"to be kind of cisgender and"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1317.62,"endTime":1321.34,"body":"straight. And so then, when"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1321.34,"endTime":1324.07,"body":"you're up against that, there's"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1321.34,"endTime":1324.07,"body":"something about how do we hold"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1324.07,"endTime":1327.43,"body":"on to kind of queer knowledge."},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1324.07,"endTime":1327.43,"body":"And I remember first, when I was"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1327.61,"endTime":1329.77,"body":"just kind of Googling and"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1327.61,"endTime":1329.77,"body":"started looking for research"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1329.77,"endTime":1332.8,"body":"around queer children, it's"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1329.77,"endTime":1332.8,"body":"like, can we even use that"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1332.8,"endTime":1337.03,"body":"language, somehow, like, dare we"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1332.8,"endTime":1337.03,"body":"even say that, but it's not like"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1337.18,"endTime":1341.08,"body":"queer people are born. I don't"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1337.18,"endTime":1341.08,"body":"know at the age of consent or"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1341.08,"endTime":1345.31,"body":"some sort of fairly arbitrary"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1341.08,"endTime":1345.31,"body":"thing or 16 or something. So and"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1345.31,"endTime":1348.82,"body":"it was really helpful to have"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1345.31,"endTime":1348.82,"body":"kind of coparents really in the"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1348.82,"endTime":1351.46,"body":"writing and reflecting and"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1348.82,"endTime":1351.46,"body":"Chance's role that was really"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1351.46,"endTime":1356.44,"body":"important. And for us to be able"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1351.46,"endTime":1356.44,"body":"to integrate different different"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1356.44,"endTime":1359.29,"body":"bits that we brought, you know,"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1356.44,"endTime":1359.29,"body":"in terms of Anthea, brilliant"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1359.29,"endTime":1361.66,"body":"kind of experience with"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1359.29,"endTime":1361.66,"body":"children, teenagers, as well as"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1361.66,"endTime":1366.01,"body":"an anti racist perspective. Paul"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1361.66,"endTime":1366.01,"body":"brought his experience in terms"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1366.01,"endTime":1370.09,"body":"of working as a supervisor and"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1366.01,"endTime":1370.09,"body":"with a lot of experience of"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1370.09,"endTime":1373.33,"body":"working with queer children, and"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1370.09,"endTime":1373.33,"body":"I guess have a history in youth"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1373.33,"endTime":1376.12,"body":"work. So we're sort of like we"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1373.33,"endTime":1376.12,"body":"were thinking developmentally"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1376.12,"endTime":1380.41,"body":"even developmentally, even"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1376.12,"endTime":1380.41,"body":"within the idea of child and it"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1380.41,"endTime":1384.58,"body":"sort of feels now like, it's"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1380.41,"endTime":1384.58,"body":"just the beginning. You know,"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1384.58,"endTime":1388.12,"body":"like through the specific work"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1384.58,"endTime":1388.12,"body":"and curiosities that are out"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1388.12,"endTime":1391.63,"body":"there in the world and hoping"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1388.12,"endTime":1391.63,"body":"that that sparked by the"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1391.69,"endTime":1393.82,"body":"thinking and the sharing, I"},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1391.69,"endTime":1393.82,"body":"guess."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1397.08,"endTime":1399.33,"body":"Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1397.08,"endTime":1399.33,"body":"listening to this episode. If"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1399.33,"endTime":1401.64,"body":"you'd like to hear a full"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1399.33,"endTime":1401.64,"body":"version of this discussion,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1401.64,"endTime":1404.88,"body":"please go to our YouTube channel"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1401.64,"endTime":1404.88,"body":"and search for queering"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1404.88,"endTime":1405.78,"body":"psychotherapy."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":1407.73,"endTime":1410.31,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"J. Chance Czyzselska","startTime":1407.73,"endTime":1410.31,"body":"Thanks for having us."},{"speaker":"Ellis Johnson","startTime":1410.79,"endTime":1411.42,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Neil Young","startTime":1411.69,"endTime":1412.02,"body":"Thanks."}]}