Welcome to the TherapistsConnect podcast Dr. Peter Blundell, interviews, therapists about their work and experiences in the therapists' community.
Peter Blundell :Hello and welcome to the Therapist Connect podcast. My name is Dr. Peter Blundell. And today I'm interviewing counsellor and psychotherapist Ciaran Hurley. Ciaran is a therapist in Sheffield, but he also has a background in nursing and has been a lecturer at both of the universities in Sheffield. And I welcome him to this episode of the podcast.
Ciaran Hurley :Hi,
Peter Blundell :hello.
Ciaran Hurley :How are you doing?
Peter Blundell :I'm really good, thank you. How are you?
Ciaran Hurley :Okay, thanks. Yeah, well,
Peter Blundell :Good. Good. Thanks for doing this was pleasure. So I suppose the first one is then how did you come to be a therapist and kind of what drew you into into doing therapy?
Ciaran Hurley :So I have a side my right at 18 I went to be a nurse went to university and trained in Nursing operating theatres and critical care kind of environments for 11 years.
Peter Blundell :Wow.
Ciaran Hurley :Towards the end of that my career was heading into an education kind of field.
Peter Blundell :Yeah
Ciaran Hurley :I had a few different roles kind of supporting colleagues in their CPD and further training. That led to some guest lecturing at university, which then led on to a career in lecturing, so I sepnt 15 years altogether in two different universities.
Peter Blundell :Wow
Ciaran Hurley :then during my university stages, various precipitating factors. I had a few episodes of depression, for which I saw a therapist and got some counselling for that. I have a vague awareness of counselling as a thing that we used. But never really kind of had any understanding of what it was or how it worked. So experiencing it from the from the client perspective was a real eye opener. And what I learned through that most valuable things was that, counselling much about learning and development as it was about health and well being.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :Which that kind of it made a lot of sense to me. So once I kind of felt like I was properly done with the depression as much as you could ever be. It was there in the background, isn't it, once you've had it I think. So once I felt like I was pretty much safe, from relapsing, to readily, set off on a counselling training costs signed up, did a foundation year to check it was what I really wanted. And then committed to the full three year diploma, part time.
Peter Blundell :And never looked back
Ciaran Hurley :Never looked back. During that three year diploma, my identity just completely shifted from lecturer to therapist and I thought, you know all the frustrations of work in higher education. I'm not really getting much benefit to offset the frustrations. So by the time I got to the end of my diploma, I'd already decided that I was going to quit work at the uni and dive into private practice and, you know, apply for jobs and do whatever it took to support myself.
Peter Blundell :Fantastic. I find that really fascinating because I trained as a social worker, sorry, I trained as a therapist. Then I trained as a social worker, and now I'm lecturing about social work and therapy. So I find it really interesting people who've gone from different like different careers really. And that whole idea of like our professional identity changing as we as we moved between the different roles. But it's interesting, you've done similar but you kind of come to therapy at the, at the end of the journey. Really?
Ciaran Hurley :Yeah.
Peter Blundell :Do you miss either nursing or lecturing at all?
Ciaran Hurley :Do you know, thatidentity shifts that I talked about then it was, it was familiar to me already in a different flavour? Yeah. I felt it from being a nurse to lecturer. So in one university, I did have a clinical role as well as the lecturing role. So I kind of worked in a clinical environment as well as being a lecturer. Yeah. But in the university, there is no capacity for that and it just wasn't an option. And the further away I got from that clinical experience, the less and less like I felt like a nurse. Yeah. And whilst I was still on the register because it is a requirement for the job and my practice was very much around the research and education of nurses. Not, not the doing of nursing. And that's what again, that's another theme that kind of it was part of learning to be a lecturer. There was also part of learn to be a therapist. There was all sorts of my experience as being a lecturer was that I am a nurse. I do lecturing, and that difference between being and doing was really quite a powerful awareness. And it you know, when that old adage that those who can't do teach, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that conversation around, well, actually teaching is something you do but nursing is something I am. it really kind of put a nice frame on that.
Peter Blundell :It's fantastic. I find it. I mean, I've found the transition into lecturing really interesting. And I think because it's about something that I love and therapy, I really enjoy it. But seeing the kind of students developing and get from kind of starting out on their training into kind of being qualified therapists at the end, I think is, is fantastic, really. And but I think it's helped with my own learning about therapy actually seeing so many people go through, go through that journey, whilst I'm kind of, on the sidelines, if you like, and watch watching them change and get their own professional identity.
Ciaran Hurley :Have you been a lecturer for long?
Peter Blundell :I have been doing it for about two years. Now. I'm still kind of I'd still say probably say quite new, really.
Ciaran Hurley :Yeah. Well, as you can imagine, in 15 years, I saw quite a lot of groups kind of starts, yeah, go through and then graduate, then I agree that it was a really nice experience. It's kind of see people go through that journey from beginning to end.
Peter Blundell :Yeah. Yeah. It's brilliant. And fantastic. So how would you describe your therapeutic approach then your modality if you're like,
Ciaran Hurley :well, I described it as existential. And I got not told off but their were conversations had between me and lecturers at the place I train.
Peter Blundell :Okay.
Ciaran Hurley :The the diploma on my certificate says I'm an integrative therapist.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :And I'm really quite convinced by the, you know, what the Mick Cooper has been doing recently around pluralism. Yeah. And, and, you know, Mick's specifically coming from the existentialist place.
Peter Blundell :Yes. Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :And, and the thing about the existential approach is that it doesn't preclude or or welcomes any technique that's applicable. So Yeah, I did I do describe my practice as exisential because what I'm dealing with is the the clients experience. Yeah, at the time they're experiencing it and the impact it's having on them now. And then obviously, the only thing that they can tell me/show me is what's happening to me right now in this moment. And for me that the philosophy of existentialism, that kind of underpins existential approach to therapy, it all, it all makes so much sense in that perspective of, you know, we have nothing but this moment.
Peter Blundell :That's really interesting. Did you as you have you, so have you always described yourself in that way in terms of from your training, or is it something that's changed over over time, do you think
Ciaran Hurley :I always have, I think, because there was a period in training when when I would say, Yeah, I was doing an integrative diploma. And then that's what I was doing. And in those first couple of years at the foundation stage, and then this First Year and early second year was kind of like a bit unsure kind of still finding my feet still getting to know all the theories. And, and it was when I started reading about existentialism, so many things just fell into place. Generally integrative doesn't describe intensely, you're not how I feel about existential approach. So, so it kind of it was a growing awareness.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :Kind of coalesced into something very real. For me.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :For the end of my second year of training.
Peter Blundell :And you mentioned there about pluralistic practice. So does that Do you consider yourself existential and pluralistic or, or do you just appreciate it from from the point of view that Mick obviously has come from an existential background if you like,
Ciaran Hurley :yeah. I think pluralism. To my mind, an existentialist problem, because it is because it is so focused on the moment But not even the session the moment in the session.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :And I'm responding to the experience of the client. I've read about loads of little tips and techniques and methods that people can use to, to learn or understand themselves better to quiet the inner voice that are horribly self critical, destructive or disruptive, you know, that I can tell people about those methods and give them papers that describe it to sort of refer to it later, little self help tips. But none of that replaces the the presence of me in that moment. And my response to to what the person tells me or what I was observing them as I sit in there. So I think the pluralism is a bit that admits you know, any and every technique that is feasible and possible and useful.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :That I feel is within my scope. And and that's where CPD is really important.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :You know, developing and enhancing those skills, the techniques and methods. None of it will ever replace, or an off.
Peter Blundell :The core?
Ciaran Hurley :Yes, absolutely. The but existential presence of I'm going to be authentic and honestly, that's going to balance with being respectful with your needs and their resilience and where we're at in the journey.
Peter Blundell :Yeah, I think it's fascinating as well. In fact, these discussions about our approach and how we define it and what it actually means to us and speaking to lots of different therapists, everyone's really passionate about how how they see therapy and what kind of what it means.
Ciaran Hurley :You'll be familiar with Erin Stephens?
Peter Blundell :Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :I've got a huge amount of respect and value for the device that Erin's putting out there. Absolutely. Call everyone to be just accepting and understanding that we are, you know, we are individual and each what we are?
Peter Blundell :Absolutely.
Ciaran Hurley :We form a profession that that has so many talents and so many opportunities to engage with clients and in ways that are so beneficial and
Peter Blundell :Absolutely. And it's it's kind of bringing everybody together, isn't it and kind of acknowledging that there's differences there, but actually, we're probably stronger together than we would be kind of apart really. And we've got enough difficulties as it is without infighting amongst ourselves. Do you describe yourself as having any specialisms then in terms of your practice and the type of work that you do?
Ciaran Hurley :I only qualified in September 2019. So it only been April 2020. No, six or eight months in and to be honest, it feels a little early to declare a specialism.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :I'm keen to work with children and young people. So before schools are closed, I had a job in primary school, working with the older end of primary school children to get four sessions a week in high school. Again, working with older children in High School. That was the high school with six forms. So I've worked with a couple of kind of 17/18 year old children as well. Yeah, feel strange call them children of that age because it's always great to work with them. And, and that's been I've loved working with children and young people. Being a university lecturer. I'm also quite keen to kind of draw on that skill set of working with young adults. Yeah, whoever Just making a way in the world still in the formative stages of life, where, you know, if you're experiencing difficulty, and you get some help in the growth and development that helps you to overcome and be resilient to life's challenges, you know, what an opportunity to really help someone to get the baseline right so that they've got the skills and the self awareness to grow and mould themselves in ways that they want to be.
Peter Blundell :Absolutely. And I think as well having, you know, a counsellor at that kind of age in your life, really where you can explore stuff and kind of actually really talk about what's going on. I think, if you don't have that actually can build lots of problems later on. If people haven't got that opportunity to talk about things and kind of process stuff for that, as you say that kind of key age really, when you're trying to figure out who you are and what you're about.
Ciaran Hurley :Yeah.
Peter Blundell :And what kind of thinking about that angle and as well, what kind of advice because if you just kind of qualified within the within the last six months say? And if someone's thinking about training to be a therapist, at this moment in time, would you give them any advice before going into it, now it's probably still really fresh in your mind
Ciaran Hurley :It is, you know, yeah. And it's really hard to to kind of give generic advice because,
Peter Blundell :Yeah,
Ciaran Hurley :For me, the process was so personal and so introspective, that that what I learned in it was completely different from what the, you know, the 10 other people in my class learned,
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :But, what we did do was, and I'm really, I will be certainly grateful to my colleagues, and we were really respectful of the fact that we were each on our own journey. We were doing it together in parallel. And it was really, it was just kind of supportive and nurturing group to be in, without any of the, there was no expectation that we will be doing the same in any way.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :So I think even, you know, I would say that that's the thing to be ready for is that yes, you're gonna learn some theories and some ideas and some skill but really, you know, be ready to learn about yourself to challenge yourself and allow yourself to change.
Peter Blundell :That idea that you have there what you're talking about of like your own process, but then a group process as well and the balance balancing all of that and kind of understanding as you say that everyone's going on their own journey, but you're all going on a collective one as well at the same time. So it's a it's I don't it's hard to describe, isn't it before you've been through it yourself to explain to people what that entails and what that's about it,
Ciaran Hurley :It is. But then, on the on the placement side or on the skill side, I would also say, to be courageous, because it's easy to avoid, you know, the complex cases or the risky cases, because you don't feel ready.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :But if you spend the whole of the training and I'm not feeling ready, what you know there's a massive risk then that what you what you become at the end of it is someone who's not ready. And that is someone, at some stage in training, you have to grasp the nettle and trust your supervision, trust your college, to support you with what you need to support the client through their own developments and grow
Peter Blundell :What has, has there been as I've been any challenges since you've qualified, and since you've been working as a therapist, but it sounds like you you've been quite successful. You got a couple of organisations and you're in private practice. So that's that That sounds good. A good start.
Ciaran Hurley :So I'm I'm a natural schmoozer. I'm a real people person. So I never leave the house without some business cards. Everyone I meet that doesn't know already gets a business card.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :Before following up on every kind of inquiry and anyone showing the mildest bit of interest that that's all that I have about my practice and my work. When the when the primary school contacted me to say, would you be interested in seeing a few of our children often. I was like. Yeah. And it was just that kind of getting to do that query came out of the blue really to me, I didn't really that was a friend of a friend who passed the card on so yeah, at the end it was kind of really was a little bit kind of surprised at first, but then I thought do you know what? I know what my limits are. So before I actually committed to seeing, the client group, I'm going to have a chat with the people in the organisation to say, you know, what do you need? What am I offering? What are the safety nets that needs to put in place? And that was really useful to just kind of get in there. And then whenever I've been involved with another organisation, I've kind of just made it clear make it known that I'm looking for work.
Peter Blundell :Yeah,
Ciaran Hurley :That I've got hours available. If they've got work available, then let's talk and
Peter Blundell :I just wanted to put yourself out there, kind of making people know I suppose network and if you like, and kind of making sure that people like Well, I've come here, I'm here with you if you need and it's obviously led to a variety of opportunities for you as well.
Ciaran Hurley :Yeah. And there's got to be really flexible in that because I went to a couple networking events and then when I follow up on it, by one person, personal circumstances. And they'd said, Give me six months and get back to me. Well, obviously, you know, my next point of call was to put a little reminder in my diary in six months to get back in touch. Which is, you know, that doors not closed necessarily. And we don't want to be so sensitive, you know, being flexible, being responsive to every inquiry you get, and
Peter Blundell :Making the most of those opportunities. Yeah. Don't let them Don't let them pass you by.
Ciaran Hurley :Yeah. But there's got to be a balance of kind of believing in yourself. Yeah. You have the skills you have you have the training you've got. Also know your limitations. And we've got to be time when you say no to some work either because, you know, you've reached capacity or that's out of your league or that's a client group that you're not comfortable in or you know, whatever your reasons are saying no. That's another option. You don't have to say yes.
Peter Blundell :That reflective process of understanding what you can and what you can't do. Yeah. So you were one of the first people who kind of responded to the therapists connect stuff. So I was just wondering how one how you'd experience it and two kind of how do you experience social media as a as a therapist in in general, what's it been like for you?
Ciaran Hurley :Well, I was a bit of a bit averse to social media in the past. And I feel a bit novice with it, especially using it as a business. Yeah, kind of like the adjustments quite strange. It feels like an uncomfortable suit.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :yeah. And so I've heard stories about Twitter been, it can be a bit of a rough place.
Peter Blundell :It certainly can.
Ciaran Hurley :I see a bit of that. Yeah. Well, generally speaking, I think because because I'm coming into it looking for the therapists and people involved in education, especially primary education. These are quite gentle people that.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :My experience largely have been, it's been quite good. The politics of the last few weeks it has been a different was brought different flavours in my opinion.
Peter Blundell :Yeah. Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :And, yeah. I feel the politics quite a lot. Yeah. I think my personal perception is you can't separate politics from life. Because, you know, every aspect of our life has a political dimensions.
Peter Blundell :Yeah, absolutely.
Ciaran Hurley :And, and yeah, this is that elements in the last few weeks have been quite challenging, quite interesting. Quiet. quite difficult at times
Peter Blundell :and you find yourself to being an observer or or in get are you engaging with that?
Ciaran Hurley :I try and hold back but I sometimes I do I get drawn into stuff, man. Yeah, it's just tricky.
Peter Blundell :It's it's tough, I mean, I was very similar to you I was not on all I was on kind of personal social media and but hadn't really used Twitter before until I started lecturing and I thought, Okay, well maybe I could engage with with some people around education, as you say, and kind of therapy. And overall, I think it's been generally positive but I have, as you've seen yourself kind of can get into situations where you think, oh, gosh, how did I end up here? If it's not where I wanted to go, or as you say, observing things from the outside as well. But I think generally, I've found therapists to be quite supportive of each other, really, and that's what you'd hope, you know?
Ciaran Hurley :Yeah. So that means that the Therapist Connect hashtag has brought to my feed. A lot of stuff that I've found really valuable and useful. I picked up a couple of CPD stuff through through it. CPD events. And it's Yeah. Some of the conversation, just the conversations on everyday basis have been, yeah, really nice. But it is, as a private practitioner. There is a potential to become quite isolated.
Peter Blundell :Yeah.
Ciaran Hurley :And to kind of not not be making regular contact with other practitioners. And I think, although it's quite a light touch on Twitter, because you only got the 280 characters, just knowing that there is a body of people out That, who kind of exposed themselves you've got a flavour of who they are and how they're appraoch life and therapy and the world. There's a baseline that I'm kind of, I'm aware that if I needed to make contact with some people, yeah, I have some names in my head of people who I might drop a message to say, yeah, yeah, I saw this, or I'm struggling with this or something like that.
Peter Blundell :And I would probably say that they would all respond as well to help you out. Because what I found particularly is that lots of these people are there because they do want to connect and they do want to support each other, you know, and I think you're right, I think being in private practice particularly, can be quite lonely and isolating, whether you're kind of newly qualified or you've been doing it for kind of 20 years or whatever. And, you know, we don't get that many opportunities to mix with other therapists I don't think but it's been great chatting to you and And I wish you the best of luck with your private practice in these difficult times. Sounds like you've got it covered though. So
Ciaran Hurley :Yeah, I mean, you gotta roll with the changes. Yeah, yeah.
Peter Blundell :Yeah. Thanks very much. Thank you very much. Okay. Cheers. Thanks, Ciaran. All right. Take care. Bye now.
Opening :Thank you for listening to the #TherapistConnect podcast, go to www.therapists-connect.com. For more discussions and debates. Transcribed by https://otter.ai