{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.42,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.42,"body":"Therapist Connect podcast. Dr."},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":3.45,"endTime":7.38,"body":"Peter Blundell, interviews"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":3.45,"endTime":7.38,"body":"therapists about their work and"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":7.38,"endTime":10.11,"body":"experiences in the therapy"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":7.38,"endTime":10.11,"body":"community."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":11.95,"endTime":14.74,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":11.95,"endTime":14.74,"body":"welcome to the second series of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":14.74,"endTime":18.16,"body":"the Therapists Connect podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":14.74,"endTime":18.16,"body":"My name is Dr. Peter Blundell."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":18.16,"endTime":20.68,"body":"And in this episode, I'm"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":18.16,"endTime":20.68,"body":"delighted to be interviewing my"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":20.68,"endTime":24.52,"body":"good friend, Susan Cousins."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":20.68,"endTime":24.52,"body":"Susan works for the university"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":24.52,"endTime":28.63,"body":"secretary's office. Her role is"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":24.52,"endTime":28.63,"body":"senior compliance advisor for"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":28.63,"endTime":32.26,"body":"race, religion and belief at"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":28.63,"endTime":32.26,"body":"Cardiff University. She's a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":32.26,"endTime":34.93,"body":"counsellor and therapist, as"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":32.26,"endTime":34.93,"body":"well as an author and has"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":34.93,"endTime":37.57,"body":"written a book called"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":34.93,"endTime":37.57,"body":"\"Overcoming Everyday Racism\","},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":37.57,"endTime":40.93,"body":"which is doing extremely well."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":37.57,"endTime":40.93,"body":"I'm absolutely delighted to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":40.93,"endTime":43.9,"body":"welcome her to this episode of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":40.93,"endTime":43.9,"body":"the Therapists Connect podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":46.12,"endTime":49.09,"body":"Well, first of all, thank you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":46.12,"endTime":49.09,"body":"very much for doing the podcast."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":49.18,"endTime":53.74,"body":"I really appreciate it. And and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":49.18,"endTime":53.74,"body":"I suppose we should crack on"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":53.74,"endTime":58.51,"body":"with some questions. First"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":53.74,"endTime":58.51,"body":"question, which obviously I've"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":58.51,"endTime":61.84,"body":"asked everybody who's done the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":58.51,"endTime":61.84,"body":"podcast so far is kind of what"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":62.08,"endTime":65.5,"body":"made you want to be a therapist,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":62.08,"endTime":65.5,"body":"kind of what drew you into this"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":65.5,"endTime":67.12,"body":"profession in the first place?"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":68.53,"endTime":70.09,"body":"Well, the thing"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":68.53,"endTime":70.09,"body":"is, I mean, I guess Peter you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":70.09,"endTime":72.43,"body":"have asked everybody that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":70.09,"endTime":72.43,"body":"question, because it's a good"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":72.43,"endTime":79.69,"body":"question. And it really makes"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":72.43,"endTime":79.69,"body":"people think, and, and it's, and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":79.69,"endTime":81.55,"body":"I thought about that question. I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":79.69,"endTime":81.55,"body":"thought, it's actually quite a"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":81.55,"endTime":86.26,"body":"tough question. And, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":81.55,"endTime":86.26,"body":"guess a lot of people go into"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":86.26,"endTime":89.02,"body":"counselling, as I did, you know,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":86.26,"endTime":89.02,"body":"because I was referred to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":89.02,"endTime":94.87,"body":"counselling by my GP. And my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":89.02,"endTime":94.87,"body":"first session, left me with a"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":94.87,"endTime":101.2,"body":"kind of overwhelming feeling of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":94.87,"endTime":101.2,"body":"hope. And leaving that session,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":101.38,"endTime":104.2,"body":"that I felt that change was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":101.38,"endTime":104.2,"body":"really going to be possible, and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":104.2,"endTime":108.58,"body":"I no longer kind of need to be"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":104.2,"endTime":108.58,"body":"held hostage to my past, I felt"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":108.58,"endTime":111.85,"body":"there was a, there was some hope"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":108.58,"endTime":111.85,"body":"out there for me and a"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":111.85,"endTime":117.34,"body":"healthier, better future. So I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":111.85,"endTime":117.34,"body":"remember, just in one session,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":117.88,"endTime":121.48,"body":"words just gushed out of me at"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":117.88,"endTime":121.48,"body":"such high speed. And my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":121.48,"endTime":124.48,"body":"counsellor just didn't say"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":121.48,"endTime":124.48,"body":"anything at all. At the end of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":124.48,"endTime":126.97,"body":"the session, well, I've just"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":124.48,"endTime":126.97,"body":"been talking the whole time, at"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":126.97,"endTime":132.49,"body":"her. And I said to her, well, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":126.97,"endTime":132.49,"body":"don't really understand why I've"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":132.49,"endTime":136.66,"body":"not allowed you to say anything,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":132.49,"endTime":136.66,"body":"and why you haven't said"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":136.66,"endTime":140.02,"body":"anything. And she turns around,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":136.66,"endTime":140.02,"body":"and she said to me, because"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":140.02,"endTime":142.93,"body":"you've got a lot to say, and no"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":140.02,"endTime":142.93,"body":"one's been listening to you for"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":142.93,"endTime":148.45,"body":"a long time. And those two"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":142.93,"endTime":148.45,"body":"things were, were, absolutely"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":148.45,"endTime":151.21,"body":"quite profound to me, I did have"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":148.45,"endTime":151.21,"body":"a lot to say, you know, I come"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":151.21,"endTime":153.58,"body":"from a very large family, and I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":151.21,"endTime":153.58,"body":"wasn't actually listened to a"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":153.58,"endTime":159.16,"body":"lot. And I did, you know, I did"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":153.58,"endTime":159.16,"body":"have a lot to say. And so her"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":159.16,"endTime":162.43,"body":"answer was just incredible. For"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":159.16,"endTime":162.43,"body":"me, it was profound to me. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":162.46,"endTime":166.72,"body":"it left a very strong"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":162.46,"endTime":166.72,"body":"impression. And I also thought,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":166.72,"endTime":169.93,"body":"so listening to somebody and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":166.72,"endTime":169.93,"body":"being present with another"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":169.93,"endTime":174.19,"body":"person, and trying to make sense"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":169.93,"endTime":174.19,"body":"of their thoughts and their"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":174.19,"endTime":178.36,"body":"feelings has such a healing"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":174.19,"endTime":178.36,"body":"capacity. And it just became"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":178.36,"endTime":182.71,"body":"something I really, really"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":178.36,"endTime":182.71,"body":"wanted to learn how to do. And,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":183.85,"endTime":186.97,"body":"and that kind of experience of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":183.85,"endTime":186.97,"body":"validation. And that kind of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":186.97,"endTime":190.27,"body":"empathy was a powerful"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":186.97,"endTime":190.27,"body":"experience and never really left"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":190.27,"endTime":194.26,"body":"me. And, and it was after that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":190.27,"endTime":194.26,"body":"first counselling session that I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":194.26,"endTime":199.69,"body":"decided that's what I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":194.26,"endTime":199.69,"body":"do. And I went on to have a year"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":199.69,"endTime":204.28,"body":"of counselling provided by the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":199.69,"endTime":204.28,"body":"NHS those days. And my recovery"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":204.28,"endTime":209.86,"body":"was slow. And it took many years"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":204.28,"endTime":209.86,"body":"to kind of shift a lot of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":210.07,"endTime":214.63,"body":"feelings of shame and loss and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":210.07,"endTime":214.63,"body":"aloneness, and the kind of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":214.72,"endTime":217.87,"body":"survivalist mentality that I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":214.72,"endTime":217.87,"body":"have into a kind of healthier"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":217.87,"endTime":225.04,"body":"person. And, and it was just an"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":217.87,"endTime":225.04,"body":"exceptional encounter. And there"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":225.04,"endTime":227.47,"body":"was something even more strange"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":225.04,"endTime":227.47,"body":"about that encounter was that I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":227.47,"endTime":230.95,"body":"realised, as we slowly got to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":227.47,"endTime":230.95,"body":"know each other that she"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":230.95,"endTime":235.9,"body":"actually knew my mother. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":230.95,"endTime":235.9,"body":"she, they shared a close friend,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":235.93,"endTime":239.53,"body":"and had met my mother on several"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":235.93,"endTime":239.53,"body":"occasions. Well, you know, this,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":239.77,"endTime":245.2,"body":"my mother, and I, didn't live"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":239.77,"endTime":245.2,"body":"anyone near each other. This was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":245.2,"endTime":248.86,"body":"in Bristol and I was brought up"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":245.2,"endTime":248.86,"body":"in the Midlands. And so that was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":248.92,"endTime":252.94,"body":"that was weird. That connection"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":248.92,"endTime":252.94,"body":"was really, really strange. The"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":252.94,"endTime":256.33,"body":"one thing I wanted to say about,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":252.94,"endTime":256.33,"body":"that is why I wanted to do"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":256.33,"endTime":257.89,"body":"counselling, but one thing of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":256.33,"endTime":257.89,"body":"the things I wanted to say about"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":257.89,"endTime":261.67,"body":"that meeting was that race was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":257.89,"endTime":261.67,"body":"was never ever mentioned in that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":261.67,"endTime":262.09,"body":"session."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":263.5,"endTime":266.02,"body":"How did you feel"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":263.5,"endTime":266.02,"body":"about that, when that it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":266.05,"endTime":268.09,"body":"even acknowledged or spoken"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":266.05,"endTime":268.09,"body":"about?"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":269.11,"endTime":272.14,"body":"Well, I didn't, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":269.11,"endTime":272.14,"body":"didn't want to bring it there. I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":272.53,"endTime":275.38,"body":"didn't want to bring it to the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":272.53,"endTime":275.38,"body":"session. I felt like there's - I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":275.38,"endTime":280.33,"body":"was learning so much. And it was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":275.38,"endTime":280.33,"body":"having such a profound impact on"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":280.84,"endTime":285.94,"body":"my mental health and that my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":280.84,"endTime":285.94,"body":"well being was improving. I was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":285.94,"endTime":289.24,"body":"kind of - my world was opening"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":285.94,"endTime":289.24,"body":"up before me, I didn't, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":289.24,"endTime":294.04,"body":"need that. So I didn't feel I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":289.24,"endTime":294.04,"body":"think, I do, as I do with most"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":294.04,"endTime":296.92,"body":"people unless I know them very"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":294.04,"endTime":296.92,"body":"well, even when I know them very"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":296.92,"endTime":302.05,"body":"well. Race isn't a subject that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":296.92,"endTime":302.05,"body":"I tend to go anywhere near So it"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":302.05,"endTime":303.13,"body":"was okay, it was okay."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":306.43,"endTime":308.5,"body":"And obviously"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":306.43,"endTime":308.5,"body":"kind of race and prejudice and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":308.5,"endTime":312.25,"body":"everything, is something that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":308.5,"endTime":312.25,"body":"you talk about a lot now and,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":312.55,"endTime":316.57,"body":"and given your, what you do with"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":312.55,"endTime":316.57,"body":"the university and the book that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":316.57,"endTime":320.5,"body":"you've written! And I know"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":316.57,"endTime":320.5,"body":"recently you did a BBC"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":320.5,"endTime":323.89,"body":"interview, didn't you? You"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":320.5,"endTime":323.89,"body":"talked quite openly and honestly"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":323.89,"endTime":327.4,"body":"about your own background. And"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":323.89,"endTime":327.4,"body":"you were talking about being"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":327.4,"endTime":331.06,"body":"adopted from a Mumbai orphanage"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":327.4,"endTime":331.06,"body":"by bright white British parents."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":331.33,"endTime":334.66,"body":"And I was just wondering about"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":331.33,"endTime":334.66,"body":"those experiences of being"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":334.69,"endTime":338.02,"body":"transnationally adopted. And"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":334.69,"endTime":338.02,"body":"growing up in a multiracial"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":338.02,"endTime":342.13,"body":"family, how did that impact on"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":338.02,"endTime":342.13,"body":"your identity as a therapist?"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":342.94,"endTime":347.26,"body":"Well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":342.94,"endTime":347.26,"body":"that had a massive impact on me"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":347.26,"endTime":352.12,"body":"and I, you know, as a kind of a"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":347.26,"endTime":352.12,"body":"person adopted by white parents,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":352.12,"endTime":356.02,"body":"I don't remember a time, that I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":352.12,"endTime":356.02,"body":"didn't know that I was adopted."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":356.41,"endTime":359.2,"body":"And I kind of always felt as if"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":356.41,"endTime":359.2,"body":"there were two parts of me one,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":359.2,"endTime":362.62,"body":"one left in Mumbai. And the one"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":359.2,"endTime":362.62,"body":"I have with me now, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":362.62,"endTime":366.16,"body":"know which bit belongs to me, or"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":362.62,"endTime":366.16,"body":"to my Indian heritage, it's kind"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":366.16,"endTime":372.04,"body":"of like, feel like a broken vase"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":366.16,"endTime":372.04,"body":"glued together, kind of, still,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":372.07,"endTime":374.44,"body":"I'm still the sum of both its"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":372.07,"endTime":374.44,"body":"parts. And yet the glue that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":374.44,"endTime":378.4,"body":"holds it together appears to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":374.44,"endTime":378.4,"body":"make it perfectly. But the glue"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":378.4,"endTime":382.84,"body":"is always separating those two"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":378.4,"endTime":382.84,"body":"parts. So I don't think I'm ever"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":382.84,"endTime":386.23,"body":"going to be as strong than I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":382.84,"endTime":386.23,"body":"would have been originally, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":386.23,"endTime":391.27,"body":"feel, I feel sort of kind of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":386.23,"endTime":391.27,"body":"quite broken by that. And I feel"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":391.27,"endTime":395.2,"body":"sad for the loss of language and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":391.27,"endTime":395.2,"body":"my culture and my family. But I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":395.2,"endTime":398.17,"body":"also feel on the other, the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":395.2,"endTime":398.17,"body":"other part of me glad to have"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":398.17,"endTime":401.08,"body":"grown is the person that I am"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":398.17,"endTime":401.08,"body":"now and to have had the kind of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":401.08,"endTime":405.85,"body":"experience that I had, within my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":401.08,"endTime":405.85,"body":"quite extraordinary family, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":405.85,"endTime":410.2,"body":"know, seven brothers and sisters"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":405.85,"endTime":410.2,"body":"from different backgrounds. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":410.2,"endTime":414.58,"body":"I, you know, James Baldwin said,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":410.2,"endTime":414.58,"body":"made a statement, you know,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":414.58,"endTime":418.42,"body":"where you come from, and I do"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":414.58,"endTime":418.42,"body":"know where I come from. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":418.42,"endTime":421.75,"body":"where, that feeling of knowing"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":418.42,"endTime":421.75,"body":"where I come from, has kept my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":421.75,"endTime":425.05,"body":"feet firmly on the ground,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":421.75,"endTime":425.05,"body":"particularly in relation to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":425.05,"endTime":430.12,"body":"expectations of life. And I, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":425.05,"endTime":430.12,"body":"don't think I have a Western"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":430.12,"endTime":434.11,"body":"expectation of life in the sense"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":430.12,"endTime":434.11,"body":"that I, I don't think its days"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":434.11,"endTime":437.17,"body":"gone by, where I haven't thought"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":434.11,"endTime":437.17,"body":"about the death of allthe"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":437.2,"endTime":439.9,"body":"children that day, death in"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":437.2,"endTime":439.9,"body":"general, a lot of the children"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":439.9,"endTime":441.91,"body":"were left behind in that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":439.9,"endTime":441.91,"body":"orphanage and how some of them"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":441.91,"endTime":445.72,"body":"probably didn't survive, and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":441.91,"endTime":445.72,"body":"that I did. And it's given me a"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":445.72,"endTime":450.79,"body":"different worldview on existence"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":445.72,"endTime":450.79,"body":"and the fragility of life. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":451.51,"endTime":454.3,"body":"life is something I've never"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":451.51,"endTime":454.3,"body":"been able to take for granted or"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":454.3,"endTime":458.38,"body":"kind of to relax into. And I've,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":454.3,"endTime":458.38,"body":"and this is, you know, this is"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":459.55,"endTime":462.43,"body":"sad, because, you know, I've"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":459.55,"endTime":462.43,"body":"lost five members of my family,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":463.03,"endTime":465.73,"body":"I lost my younger brother died"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":463.03,"endTime":465.73,"body":"in front of me when I was very"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":465.73,"endTime":469.6,"body":"young, in a very trofferaumatic"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":465.73,"endTime":469.6,"body":"accident, I lost a brother in a"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":469.6,"endTime":473.74,"body":"house fire, and my sister was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":469.6,"endTime":473.74,"body":"the 19th person in the UK to die"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":473.74,"endTime":478.33,"body":"of swine flu. And when my family"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":473.74,"endTime":478.33,"body":"had to make the decision to turn"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":478.33,"endTime":482.26,"body":"off the ventilator, and I, I was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":478.33,"endTime":482.26,"body":"with both my parents when they"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":482.26,"endTime":486.16,"body":"died. So given the family"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":482.26,"endTime":486.16,"body":"history, and the low mortality"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":486.16,"endTime":488.53,"body":"rates, I kind of wake up in the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":486.16,"endTime":488.53,"body":"morning, and I'm always amazed"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":488.53,"endTime":492.58,"body":"that I'm still here. And I never"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":488.53,"endTime":492.58,"body":"really expected to live this"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":492.58,"endTime":496.39,"body":"long. And I know that sounds"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":492.58,"endTime":496.39,"body":"really strange, but when you've"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":496.39,"endTime":499.69,"body":"lost so many members of your"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":496.39,"endTime":499.69,"body":"family, I don't think that's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":499.81,"endTime":503.02,"body":"accidental, I think the whole"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":499.81,"endTime":503.02,"body":"process of transnational"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":503.02,"endTime":506.26,"body":"adoption, I think, you know the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":503.02,"endTime":506.26,"body":"care system in itself, and I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":506.26,"endTime":510.37,"body":"think it reduces life"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":506.26,"endTime":510.37,"body":"expectancy. But I don't know, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":510.37,"endTime":514.27,"body":"don't know if there's been any"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":510.37,"endTime":514.27,"body":"research done on that. And so,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":514.45,"endTime":518.2,"body":"you know, I was brought up in"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":514.45,"endTime":518.2,"body":"this kind of incredibly diverse"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":518.2,"endTime":521.41,"body":"family, brothers and sisters,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":518.2,"endTime":521.41,"body":"black, Bangladeshi, Pakistani,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":521.41,"endTime":525.07,"body":"Indian mixed race, and mixed"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":521.41,"endTime":525.07,"body":"parentage, mixed heritage. And,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":525.13,"endTime":529.84,"body":"and we were all brought up from"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":525.13,"endTime":529.84,"body":"the age of two. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":532.39,"endTime":536.32,"body":"it kind of gave me this, it was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":532.39,"endTime":536.32,"body":"just very powerfully useful,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":536.71,"endTime":540.73,"body":"because I can identify with lots"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":536.71,"endTime":540.73,"body":"of different people from"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":540.73,"endTime":545.17,"body":"different backgrounds. And it's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":540.73,"endTime":545.17,"body":"like, I've been blessed with the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":545.17,"endTime":548.83,"body":"kind of flexibility working"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":545.17,"endTime":548.83,"body":"across cultures because this is"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":548.83,"endTime":553.24,"body":"how I was brought up. And I was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":548.83,"endTime":553.24,"body":"determined to offer BAME people"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":553.24,"endTime":556.72,"body":"access to counselling, because"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":553.24,"endTime":556.72,"body":"it wasn't, wasn't.. it's a real"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":556.72,"endTime":559.84,"body":"kind of inequality and still is,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":556.72,"endTime":559.84,"body":"in the provision of therapy for"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":559.84,"endTime":568.24,"body":"BAME people. And it's almost as"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":559.84,"endTime":568.24,"body":"if people could easily identify"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":568.24,"endTime":570.67,"body":"with with my background, because"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":568.24,"endTime":570.67,"body":"I thought, they thought I was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":570.67,"endTime":574.36,"body":"their background. So I've been"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":570.67,"endTime":574.36,"body":"mistakenly thought of as African"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":574.36,"endTime":578.02,"body":"Caribbean, I've been mistakenly"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":574.36,"endTime":578.02,"body":"thought of as South American."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":578.62,"endTime":581.65,"body":"And so I think I've been"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":578.62,"endTime":581.65,"body":"mistakenly thought of as many"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":581.65,"endTime":584.02,"body":"different things. So when the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":581.65,"endTime":584.02,"body":"BAME person sitting in front of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":584.02,"endTime":587.74,"body":"me, they sort of think that I'm"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":584.02,"endTime":587.74,"body":"the same as their background,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":587.74,"endTime":592.78,"body":"which has been just incredibly"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":587.74,"endTime":592.78,"body":"useful. And so yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":592.78,"endTime":597.28,"body":"offered me that my background's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":592.78,"endTime":597.28,"body":"offered me enormous amounts of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":597.34,"endTime":599.05,"body":"flexibility in the way that I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":597.34,"endTime":599.05,"body":"work."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":600.94,"endTime":603.1,"body":"And being able"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":600.94,"endTime":603.1,"body":"to see life from kind of a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":603.1,"endTime":605.29,"body":"multitude of perspectives as"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":603.1,"endTime":605.29,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":606.52,"endTime":609.49,"body":"Yeah, absolutely"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":606.52,"endTime":609.49,"body":"a multitude of perspectives and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":609.49,"endTime":616.3,"body":"experiences. And, you know, even"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":609.49,"endTime":616.3,"body":"to the extent that one of my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":616.3,"endTime":618.85,"body":"brothers, in fact one of my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":616.3,"endTime":618.85,"body":"brothers who died, lost his life"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":618.85,"endTime":622.36,"body":"in the fire was, you know, he"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":618.85,"endTime":622.36,"body":"was, you could almost think he"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":622.39,"endTime":629.29,"body":"looked Italian. And, and, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":622.39,"endTime":629.29,"body":"so his perspective is very, very"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":629.29,"endTime":631.57,"body":"different to mine. And I was the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":629.29,"endTime":631.57,"body":"darkest in the family and talk"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":631.57,"endTime":635.92,"body":"about shadeism within the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":631.57,"endTime":635.92,"body":"family, and I had a pretty tough"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":635.92,"endTime":641.38,"body":"time. And because I was the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":635.92,"endTime":641.38,"body":"darkest,but that's a whole other"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":641.38,"endTime":642.61,"body":"area of conversation."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":643.72,"endTime":647.86,"body":"Yeah. I really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":643.72,"endTime":647.86,"body":"appreciate as well, I think in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":647.86,"endTime":651.16,"body":"your BBC interview, where you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":647.86,"endTime":651.16,"body":"were kind of talking about how"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":651.16,"endTime":654.85,"body":"that there was a Panorama"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":651.16,"endTime":654.85,"body":"programme wasn't there, when you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":654.85,"endTime":659.11,"body":"were younger and it, it kind of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":654.85,"endTime":659.11,"body":"interviewed the family and how"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":659.11,"endTime":663.58,"body":"it presented this kind of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":659.11,"endTime":663.58,"body":"dynamic family and how"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":663.61,"endTime":667.12,"body":"multicultural and, and how well"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":663.61,"endTime":667.12,"body":"you're all doing. And that,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":667.33,"endTime":670.36,"body":"although it was all of those"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":667.33,"endTime":670.36,"body":"things, you talked about how"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":670.39,"endTime":673.6,"body":"actually the reality behind all"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":670.39,"endTime":673.6,"body":"of that was much more"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":673.63,"endTime":676.39,"body":"complicated and much more"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":673.63,"endTime":676.39,"body":"nuanced than maybe what that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":676.39,"endTime":678.13,"body":"programme had got across?"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":679.09,"endTime":683.35,"body":"Well, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":679.09,"endTime":683.35,"body":"mean, the programme, put, puts"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":683.35,"endTime":689.08,"body":"it across as this wonderfully"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":683.35,"endTime":689.08,"body":"happy, functioning family. But"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":689.08,"endTime":692.35,"body":"how could it possibly be, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":689.08,"endTime":692.35,"body":"know, how could you possibly"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":692.35,"endTime":695.62,"body":"take these children from"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":692.35,"endTime":695.62,"body":"orphanages in different parts of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":695.62,"endTime":700.57,"body":"the world and bring them"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":695.62,"endTime":700.57,"body":"together and into the whole new"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":700.63,"endTime":705.34,"body":"unit, and into a, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":700.63,"endTime":705.34,"body":"town that I was bought up in was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":705.37,"endTime":710.14,"body":"mostly white, there was only one"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":705.37,"endTime":710.14,"body":"other black family, and it is it"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":710.14,"endTime":718.15,"body":"was, you know, it was on the one"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":710.14,"endTime":718.15,"body":"hand, amazing and wonderful. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":718.15,"endTime":721.24,"body":"on the other hand, something"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":718.15,"endTime":721.24,"body":"that's taken me all my life to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":724.06,"endTime":731.08,"body":"work through and fill. And, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":724.06,"endTime":731.08,"body":"know, still, the impact of that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":731.11,"endTime":734.38,"body":"is affecting my life and who I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":731.11,"endTime":734.38,"body":"am, as it's bound to have done,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":734.38,"endTime":737.71,"body":"it was extremely traumatic. It"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":734.38,"endTime":737.71,"body":"wasn't, you know, it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":737.71,"endTime":744.97,"body":"brought up in this wonderful,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":737.71,"endTime":744.97,"body":"loving family that was presented"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":744.97,"endTime":748.15,"body":"on that programme. My parents"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":744.97,"endTime":748.15,"body":"did actually try to challenge"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":748.15,"endTime":753.73,"body":"that, to be honest. And but I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":748.15,"endTime":753.73,"body":"think that, you know, it's kind"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":753.73,"endTime":758.44,"body":"of like, where do you, where"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":753.73,"endTime":758.44,"body":"would you want to go to the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":758.44,"endTime":760.84,"body":"programme like that, for the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":758.44,"endTime":760.84,"body":"sake of my brothers and sisters"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":760.84,"endTime":767.71,"body":"and to protect my brothers and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":760.84,"endTime":767.71,"body":"sisters, and I don't think it"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":767.71,"endTime":769.93,"body":"would have been very useful for"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":767.71,"endTime":769.93,"body":"the family to have gone into it"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":769.93,"endTime":770.8,"body":"any real depth."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":770.88,"endTime":773.76,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":770.88,"endTime":773.76,"body":"Particularly, I suppose at that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":773.79,"endTime":778.62,"body":"time period, as well, really."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":773.79,"endTime":778.62,"body":"Where they were maybe using that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":778.62,"endTime":785.55,"body":"programme to kind of try and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":778.62,"endTime":785.55,"body":"show positive aspects. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":787.19,"endTime":789.05,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":787.19,"endTime":789.05,"body":"definitely, it was that time"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":789.05,"endTime":792.08,"body":"period. And it was very much the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":789.05,"endTime":792.08,"body":"kind of the time period when"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":792.08,"endTime":795.26,"body":"people were being kind of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":792.08,"endTime":795.26,"body":"exocitised in ways, you know the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":795.77,"endTime":800.78,"body":"Grace Jones and then Michael"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":795.77,"endTime":800.78,"body":"Jackson, Tamla Motown and, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":800.78,"endTime":804.71,"body":"know, obviously, there was all"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":800.78,"endTime":804.71,"body":"the politics as well, but within"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":805.07,"endTime":809.72,"body":"Hey, is very much a kind of form"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":805.07,"endTime":809.72,"body":"of exotic exoticisation of of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":809.72,"endTime":813.02,"body":"BAME people. And I used the term"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":809.72,"endTime":813.02,"body":"BAME, and I apologise for it,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":813.05,"endTime":816.32,"body":"but I'm not sure about the 10"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":813.05,"endTime":816.32,"body":"people of colour, because the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":816.44,"endTime":819.89,"body":"people who are not of colour who"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":816.44,"endTime":819.89,"body":"are mixed race, mixed heritage"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":819.89,"endTime":824.06,"body":"who don't physically look of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":819.89,"endTime":824.06,"body":"colour, so like everybody else,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":825.41,"endTime":828.89,"body":"I'm struggling with"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":825.41,"endTime":828.89,"body":"categorization and terminology."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":828.89,"endTime":831.83,"body":"So just thought I'd better say"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":828.89,"endTime":831.83,"body":"that Peter, actually."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":832.25,"endTime":837.83,"body":"yeah, no, no,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":832.25,"endTime":837.83,"body":"no, I appreciate that. What kind"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":837.83,"endTime":841.49,"body":"of, moving kind of away from"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":837.83,"endTime":841.49,"body":"your family history then and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":841.52,"endTime":844.16,"body":"maybe thinking about your kind"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":841.52,"endTime":844.16,"body":"of training as your, as a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":844.16,"endTime":848.9,"body":"therapist? What was your"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":844.16,"endTime":848.9,"body":"experience like as a BAME"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":848.9,"endTime":852.05,"body":"person? And how did you kind of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":848.9,"endTime":852.05,"body":"approach your course and your"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":852.05,"endTime":854.27,"body":"training, and when you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":852.05,"endTime":854.27,"body":"qualified?"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":855.68,"endTime":859.13,"body":"Well, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":855.68,"endTime":859.13,"body":"really didn't want the course to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":859.13,"endTime":863.24,"body":"frame me or contain me. And I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":859.13,"endTime":863.24,"body":"knew that it would be a very"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":863.24,"endTime":866.99,"body":"white space. And, and it would"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":863.24,"endTime":866.99,"body":"be a Eurocentric curriculum that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":866.99,"endTime":870.68,"body":"I that I didn't want and I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":866.99,"endTime":870.68,"body":"didn't want to engage in, not"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":870.68,"endTime":873.44,"body":"only for my kind of own self"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":870.68,"endTime":873.44,"body":"development, but for the client"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":873.44,"endTime":875.45,"body":"group that I was kind of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":873.44,"endTime":875.45,"body":"determined to work alongside"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":875.45,"endTime":880.91,"body":"once qualified. I was certain"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":875.45,"endTime":880.91,"body":"before I started the course that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":880.91,"endTime":883.76,"body":"it wasn't going to help me"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":880.91,"endTime":883.76,"body":"understand or store the same"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":883.79,"endTime":893.18,"body":"kinds of experience. I didn't I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":883.79,"endTime":893.18,"body":"kind of, you know, challenging"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":893.18,"endTime":896.03,"body":"people about race is incredibly"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":893.18,"endTime":896.03,"body":"difficult to carry out and it's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":896.03,"endTime":899.33,"body":"kind of full of pitfalls,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":896.03,"endTime":899.33,"body":"barriers and obstacles, and I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":899.33,"endTime":905.36,"body":"didn't want to bring race into"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":899.33,"endTime":905.36,"body":"my course because I was the only"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":906.77,"endTime":912.26,"body":"BAME counsellor training there."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":906.77,"endTime":912.26,"body":"And so it was incredibly"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":912.26,"endTime":914.84,"body":"difficult. So I left, as I did"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":912.26,"endTime":914.84,"body":"in the counselling session, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":914.84,"endTime":916.91,"body":"left the race out of it"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":914.84,"endTime":916.91,"body":"completely, but I made the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":916.91,"endTime":921.14,"body":"decision to write every single"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":916.91,"endTime":921.14,"body":"essay even was about Freud, or"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":921.14,"endTime":925.67,"body":"Jung, or about integrative"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":921.14,"endTime":925.67,"body":"therapy. Whatever we learned in"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":925.67,"endTime":928.04,"body":"that time, I can't remember it"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":925.67,"endTime":928.04,"body":"was quite a long time ago, 25"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":928.07,"endTime":932.63,"body":"years ago, I wrote it about"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":928.07,"endTime":932.63,"body":"race, every single lesson, so so"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":932.63,"endTime":938.39,"body":"I bought books that weren't on,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":932.63,"endTime":938.39,"body":"weren't recommended reading, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":938.39,"endTime":941.33,"body":"kept getting much lower grades,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":938.39,"endTime":941.33,"body":"and my tutors kept saying to me,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":941.33,"endTime":944.45,"body":"Susan, you know, you're not"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":941.33,"endTime":944.45,"body":"scoring, you haven't reached the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":944.78,"endTime":947.51,"body":"10 point criteria. And I said,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":944.78,"endTime":947.51,"body":"well, I know, I'm not interested"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":947.51,"endTime":950.36,"body":"in reaching the 10 point"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":947.51,"endTime":950.36,"body":"criteria, I'm happy to get six"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":950.36,"endTime":953.9,"body":"points as long as I pass,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":950.36,"endTime":953.9,"body":"because I want to do the reading"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":953.9,"endTime":956.96,"body":"that I want to do. I don't want"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":953.9,"endTime":956.96,"body":"to do your reading, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":956.96,"endTime":959.18,"body":"to read all your books, I want"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":956.96,"endTime":959.18,"body":"to read the books I've got about"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":959.18,"endTime":963.02,"body":"the same subjects. And so I made"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":959.18,"endTime":963.02,"body":"a really conscious decision. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":963.08,"endTime":965.99,"body":"the reason I was able to write"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":963.08,"endTime":965.99,"body":"the book that I've written was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":965.99,"endTime":970.94,"body":"because I've got so many books"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":965.99,"endTime":970.94,"body":"from that course, that fed into"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":970.94,"endTime":975.26,"body":"the book and informed me about"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":970.94,"endTime":975.26,"body":"the overcoming everyday racism."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":976.4,"endTime":981.53,"body":"And so I felt, you know, I felt"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":976.4,"endTime":981.53,"body":"extremely isolated on the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":981.53,"endTime":986.45,"body":"course. It's kind of like a,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":981.53,"endTime":986.45,"body":"it's like some counselling"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":986.45,"endTime":990.71,"body":"courses that they were then,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":986.45,"endTime":990.71,"body":"very rigid structures, but you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":990.71,"endTime":994.4,"body":"know, the edges of it were quite"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":990.71,"endTime":994.4,"body":"soft, you know, the tone of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":994.4,"endTime":998.54,"body":"voice that's kind of, ultimately"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":994.4,"endTime":998.54,"body":"sometimes excluding and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":998.54,"endTime":1005.23,"body":"controlling. And I didn't find"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":998.54,"endTime":1005.23,"body":"it safe, I knew I wasn't going"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1005.23,"endTime":1008.11,"body":"to fit. So I knew the course"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1005.23,"endTime":1008.11,"body":"would fail to take into account,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1008.14,"endTime":1010.51,"body":"you know, social political"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1008.14,"endTime":1010.51,"body":"environment structures, and it"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1010.51,"endTime":1013.66,"body":"would project blame onto my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1010.51,"endTime":1013.66,"body":"individual experience, which is"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1013.66,"endTime":1016.6,"body":"why I didn't feel safe talking"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1013.66,"endTime":1016.6,"body":"about my individual experience."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1016.96,"endTime":1020.83,"body":"And at some point, I thought I'd"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1016.96,"endTime":1020.83,"body":"be called out, to take personal"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1020.83,"endTime":1022.75,"body":"responsibility, because in those"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1020.83,"endTime":1022.75,"body":"days, Peter, there was this"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1022.75,"endTime":1027.94,"body":"thing about all those BAME"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1022.75,"endTime":1027.94,"body":"people were, were behaving like"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1027.94,"endTime":1032.47,"body":"victims. And so when they were"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1027.94,"endTime":1032.47,"body":"being attacked, attacked, it was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1032.47,"endTime":1035.14,"body":"because they look like a victim"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1032.47,"endTime":1035.14,"body":"or walk like a victim. And I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1035.14,"endTime":1038.05,"body":"remember literally trying to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1035.14,"endTime":1038.05,"body":"walk differently down the road."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1038.89,"endTime":1043.45,"body":"And, and so I thought,' Oh, it"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1038.89,"endTime":1043.45,"body":"must be me, I'm not walking,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1043.45,"endTime":1048.04,"body":"like I'm assertive enough'. And,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1043.45,"endTime":1048.04,"body":"and I really took this on board."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1049.33,"endTime":1051.43,"body":"And I sort of tried walking"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1049.33,"endTime":1051.43,"body":"differently, I thought it would"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1051.43,"endTime":1053.89,"body":"stop people spitting at me or"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1051.43,"endTime":1053.89,"body":"shouting at me or abusing at me"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1053.89,"endTime":1057.52,"body":"in the street. And of course,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1053.89,"endTime":1057.52,"body":"that wasn't the case. So that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1057.52,"endTime":1062.83,"body":"was a very damaging view. And,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1057.52,"endTime":1062.83,"body":"and sort of loose and lazy"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1062.83,"endTime":1066.13,"body":"thinking that was ignoring the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1062.83,"endTime":1066.13,"body":"complexity of the situation. So"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1066.79,"endTime":1072.67,"body":"I'm, I'm, I'm kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1066.79,"endTime":1072.67,"body":"I'm wary and wary of that kind"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1072.67,"endTime":1075.67,"body":"of thinking and very wary of it."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1072.67,"endTime":1075.67,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1077.25,"endTime":1080.73,"body":"and that almost"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1077.25,"endTime":1080.73,"body":"almost blaming the well, almost"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1080.73,"endTime":1085.11,"body":"blaming the individual, rather"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1080.73,"endTime":1085.11,"body":"than actually looking at the the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1085.11,"endTime":1089.4,"body":"oppression in society and the,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1085.11,"endTime":1089.4,"body":"and the views of others really,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1089.4,"endTime":1090.24,"body":"that exist."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1091.38,"endTime":1093.78,"body":"Well exactly, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1091.38,"endTime":1093.78,"body":"know, there wasn't, it was all"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1093.78,"endTime":1097.35,"body":"about the individual. At that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1093.78,"endTime":1097.35,"body":"time, yeah, 25 years ago, was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1097.35,"endTime":1099.78,"body":"about the individual didn't take"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1097.35,"endTime":1099.78,"body":"into account institutional"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1099.78,"endTime":1103.32,"body":"racism, people weren't thinking"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1099.78,"endTime":1103.32,"body":"about changing the curriculum,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1103.32,"endTime":1105.36,"body":"or challenging their curriculum"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1103.32,"endTime":1105.36,"body":"or oppressive practice or"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1105.36,"endTime":1110.73,"body":"anything like that. And, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1105.36,"endTime":1110.73,"body":"know, you know, and I had an"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1110.76,"endTime":1117.87,"body":"interesting, I had a very"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1110.76,"endTime":1117.87,"body":"strange event that happened was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1117.87,"endTime":1122.7,"body":"that the the sort of diversity"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1117.87,"endTime":1122.7,"body":"training day, came about towards"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1122.7,"endTime":1126.24,"body":"the end of the course. And I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1122.7,"endTime":1126.24,"body":"went to my tutors and said, I'm"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1126.24,"endTime":1130.05,"body":"not going to, I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1126.24,"endTime":1130.05,"body":"attend this course. And they"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1130.05,"endTime":1132.99,"body":"said to me, 'Well, why Susan,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1130.05,"endTime":1132.99,"body":"why why must come along'. And I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1132.99,"endTime":1134.88,"body":"said, I don't want to go,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1132.99,"endTime":1134.88,"body":"because I know I'm going to hear"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1134.91,"endTime":1137.28,"body":"a group of white people, who I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1134.91,"endTime":1137.28,"body":"built up a relationship with,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1137.28,"endTime":1143.4,"body":"who I like, and I'm close to,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1137.28,"endTime":1143.4,"body":"talk about racism in ways that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1143.4,"endTime":1147.66,"body":"I'm going to find emotionally"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1143.4,"endTime":1147.66,"body":"upsetting. And I just don't want"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1147.66,"endTime":1151.17,"body":"to hear it. I don't want to hear"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1147.66,"endTime":1151.17,"body":"denial. I don't want to hear"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1152.4,"endTime":1155.7,"body":"people kind of overreact to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1152.4,"endTime":1155.7,"body":"normal, everyday experiences of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1155.7,"endTime":1160.56,"body":"racism. And I don't want to hear"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1155.7,"endTime":1160.56,"body":"that kind of white response to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1160.56,"endTime":1165.63,"body":"racism in a room full of people,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1160.56,"endTime":1165.63,"body":"when I'm the only person and my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1165.63,"endTime":1168.12,"body":"tutors said we must come Susan"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1165.63,"endTime":1168.12,"body":"because you know, it would be"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1168.12,"endTime":1170.13,"body":"really good to have you there"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1168.12,"endTime":1170.13,"body":"and it will really improve the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1170.13,"endTime":1174.69,"body":"conversation. It will, it will"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1170.13,"endTime":1174.69,"body":"empower the conversation. You"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1174.69,"endTime":1177.51,"body":"know, you're such a good talker,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1174.69,"endTime":1177.51,"body":"Susan, you'll be able to really"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1177.66,"endTime":1183.48,"body":"help people. I went along, then"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1177.66,"endTime":1183.48,"body":"I ended up, after up two or"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1183.48,"endTime":1186.15,"body":"three hours of putting up with"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1183.48,"endTime":1186.15,"body":"all sorts of nonsense walking"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1186.15,"endTime":1191.07,"body":"out in tears. And because I was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1186.15,"endTime":1191.07,"body":"hearing all the things that, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1191.07,"endTime":1194.37,"body":"know, I didn't want to hear. I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1191.07,"endTime":1194.37,"body":"didn't want to hear people"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1194.37,"endTime":1196.77,"body":"challenging the racism that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1194.37,"endTime":1196.77,"body":"really existed. I didn't want to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1196.77,"endTime":1200.04,"body":"hear oh we need some evidence"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1196.77,"endTime":1200.04,"body":"that racism is like; I didn't"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1200.04,"endTime":1202.92,"body":"want to hear that kind of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1200.04,"endTime":1202.92,"body":"denial. I didn't want to have"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1202.92,"endTime":1207.96,"body":"the projection. You know, I just"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1202.92,"endTime":1207.96,"body":"didn't hear it. And you know,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1207.99,"endTime":1211.17,"body":"the lesson I learned from that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1207.99,"endTime":1211.17,"body":"was to trust my instincts - I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1211.17,"endTime":1212.85,"body":"shouldn't have gone in the first"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1211.17,"endTime":1212.85,"body":"place."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1214.71,"endTime":1217.53,"body":"And that's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1214.71,"endTime":1217.53,"body":"oppression in itself, isn't it"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1217.56,"endTime":1225.06,"body":"is kind of using other people's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1217.56,"endTime":1225.06,"body":"experience to educate others,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1225.66,"endTime":1227.55,"body":"whether they wanted it used, or"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1225.66,"endTime":1227.55,"body":"not."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1228.83,"endTime":1231.56,"body":"Well exactly,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1228.83,"endTime":1231.56,"body":"exactly Peter. I think there's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1231.56,"endTime":1234.23,"body":"another really good example of -"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1231.56,"endTime":1234.23,"body":"I don't know if you've heard of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1234.23,"endTime":1241.13,"body":"that term, the privilege walk?"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1234.23,"endTime":1241.13,"body":"Yeah. You know, I just the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1241.43,"endTime":1245.12,"body":"there's a film of it on YouTube."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1241.43,"endTime":1245.12,"body":"And if you look at the faces of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1245.12,"endTime":1248.6,"body":"the young black people in that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1245.12,"endTime":1248.6,"body":"YouTube video, the people that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1248.6,"endTime":1254.63,"body":"are left behind, and it's just"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1248.6,"endTime":1254.63,"body":"like that, yeah. White people"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1254.63,"endTime":1260.06,"body":"learning on the emotional,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1254.63,"endTime":1260.06,"body":"being, and that being an"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1260.06,"endTime":1262.22,"body":"emotional burden that people"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1260.06,"endTime":1262.22,"body":"have been involved in that, in"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1262.22,"endTime":1265.13,"body":"that training, and I, I've done"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1262.22,"endTime":1265.13,"body":"that training myself quite"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1265.13,"endTime":1268.79,"body":"recently. And it's just been, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1265.13,"endTime":1268.79,"body":"just thought, I don't want to do"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1268.79,"endTime":1273.5,"body":"this. And it's just been"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1268.79,"endTime":1273.5,"body":"horrific. For the white people"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1273.5,"endTime":1276.86,"body":"who have learned on the back of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1273.5,"endTime":1276.86,"body":"the emotional upset of the black"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1276.86,"endTime":1279.11,"body":"people in the room including my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1276.86,"endTime":1279.11,"body":"own even recently, when I did"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1279.11,"endTime":1285.08,"body":"it. And I really, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1279.11,"endTime":1285.08,"body":"I don't know.."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1288.51,"endTime":1290.94,"body":"Well, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1288.51,"endTime":1290.94,"body":"it's not something I've ever"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1290.94,"endTime":1296.73,"body":"used in my teaching. But I am"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1290.94,"endTime":1296.73,"body":"thinking about counselling"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1296.73,"endTime":1301.11,"body":"courses in general, really, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1296.73,"endTime":1301.11,"body":"how much personal material just"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1301.11,"endTime":1307.98,"body":"in general is used from"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1301.11,"endTime":1307.98,"body":"different people. And the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1307.98,"endTime":1311.28,"body":"balances of that really, of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1307.98,"endTime":1311.28,"body":"people being comfortable enough"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1311.28,"endTime":1316.5,"body":"to share and choosing to, versus"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1311.28,"endTime":1316.5,"body":"people feeling forced to share,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1316.8,"endTime":1322.38,"body":"and, and the kind of balances of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1316.8,"endTime":1322.38,"body":"that, really, and I, I really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1322.38,"endTime":1326.04,"body":"appreciate what you're saying"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1322.38,"endTime":1326.04,"body":"there in terms of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1326.55,"endTime":1329.31,"body":"everyone needs to be able to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1326.55,"endTime":1329.31,"body":"have the choice about what they"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1329.31,"endTime":1334.65,"body":"want to talk about, and it's not"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1329.31,"endTime":1334.65,"body":"individuals' responsibility to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1334.65,"endTime":1338.49,"body":"be educating the group is it,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1334.65,"endTime":1338.49,"body":"you know, it's the group's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1338.49,"endTime":1340.32,"body":"responsibility to educate"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1338.49,"endTime":1340.32,"body":"itself."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1342.12,"endTime":1346.11,"body":"It is, it is, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1342.12,"endTime":1346.11,"body":"think a lot of BAME people,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1346.11,"endTime":1348.27,"body":"black people, people of colour"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1346.11,"endTime":1348.27,"body":"at the moment are talking about"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1348.27,"endTime":1354.48,"body":"that, that sense of, of burden"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1348.27,"endTime":1354.48,"body":"and responsibility that falls on"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1354.48,"endTime":1354.72,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1355.62,"endTime":1360.66,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1355.62,"endTime":1360.66,"body":"how would you describe your kind"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1360.66,"endTime":1364.38,"body":"of your approach and your to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1360.66,"endTime":1364.38,"body":"therapy now? Is that is it? Is"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1364.38,"endTime":1368.1,"body":"it, what were you trained in,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1364.38,"endTime":1368.1,"body":"has it changed over over time?"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1369.35,"endTime":1373.55,"body":"Um, yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1369.35,"endTime":1373.55,"body":"I did the integrative route,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1373.55,"endTime":1377.18,"body":"went down the integrative route,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1373.55,"endTime":1377.18,"body":"but I, I think I've always kind"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1377.18,"endTime":1379.97,"body":"of, my heart is with the person"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1377.18,"endTime":1379.97,"body":"centred, sort of multicultural"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1379.97,"endTime":1386.81,"body":"approach. And I kind of like, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1379.97,"endTime":1386.81,"body":"mean, I'm, you know, that's kind"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1386.81,"endTime":1391.04,"body":"of that's held me, and it kind"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1386.81,"endTime":1391.04,"body":"of some, I suppose we could put"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1391.04,"endTime":1393.92,"body":"into the mix there, some"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1391.04,"endTime":1393.92,"body":"existential stuff around making"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1393.92,"endTime":1395.9,"body":"meaning out of everyday life,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1393.92,"endTime":1395.9,"body":"because that's actually"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1395.9,"endTime":1400.94,"body":"something I find fascinating"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1395.9,"endTime":1400.94,"body":"about the creative possibilities"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1400.97,"endTime":1406.67,"body":"that exist in the space of a"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1400.97,"endTime":1406.67,"body":"day, in people's lives. And, and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1406.73,"endTime":1410.87,"body":"I think that's also, you know,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1406.73,"endTime":1410.87,"body":"particularly now under lockdown,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1411.8,"endTime":1414.14,"body":"well, not under lockdown. But we"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1411.8,"endTime":1414.14,"body":"are a little bit more under"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1414.14,"endTime":1417.86,"body":"lockdown than Wales, Peter, but"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1414.14,"endTime":1417.86,"body":"not been released quite as much."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1417.86,"endTime":1421.04,"body":"But that's really kind of put"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1417.86,"endTime":1421.04,"body":"into focus, isn't it, that kind"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1421.04,"endTime":1424.19,"body":"of what is our, the meaning of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1421.04,"endTime":1424.19,"body":"our everyday life? And I, I've"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1424.19,"endTime":1429.02,"body":"always found that a fascinating"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1424.19,"endTime":1429.02,"body":"place in which to work with"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1429.02,"endTime":1434.12,"body":"people. Rather than necessarily"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1429.02,"endTime":1434.12,"body":"working with depression, or"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1434.12,"endTime":1435.86,"body":"anxiety, of course, I've worked"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1434.12,"endTime":1435.86,"body":"with those things. I've been"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1435.86,"endTime":1438.53,"body":"working for a long time, or"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1435.86,"endTime":1438.53,"body":"supervising people around those"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1438.53,"endTime":1442.7,"body":"issues. They think that what is"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1438.53,"endTime":1442.7,"body":"contained within a day, and how"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1442.7,"endTime":1447.11,"body":"one uses one day, and what is in"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1442.7,"endTime":1447.11,"body":"in that day, is has been"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1447.2,"endTime":1452.27,"body":"something that's not really an"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1447.2,"endTime":1452.27,"body":"approach to working is it but"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1452.27,"endTime":1454.58,"body":"it's something that I'm always"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1452.27,"endTime":1454.58,"body":"considering in the back of my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1454.58,"endTime":1457.31,"body":"mind. So obviously, the past is"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1454.58,"endTime":1457.31,"body":"important, and the future is"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1457.31,"endTime":1461.03,"body":"important. But the hear and now"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1457.31,"endTime":1461.03,"body":"is, is has always been very"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1461.03,"endTime":1464.96,"body":"important in my work. And, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1461.03,"endTime":1464.96,"body":"know, in a lot of the work that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1464.96,"endTime":1468.8,"body":"I've done, I have been working"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1464.96,"endTime":1468.8,"body":"with victims of violence and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1468.83,"endTime":1474.29,"body":"race hate crime. And so I've I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1468.83,"endTime":1474.29,"body":"think worked with people's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1474.29,"endTime":1479.9,"body":"behaviours, I worked in a CBT"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1474.29,"endTime":1479.9,"body":"way in terms of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1479.99,"endTime":1482.69,"body":"supporting people in increasing"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1479.99,"endTime":1482.69,"body":"their confidence in entering"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1482.69,"endTime":1486.41,"body":"public spaces if they've been"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1482.69,"endTime":1486.41,"body":"attacked in public spaces, and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1486.53,"endTime":1490.13,"body":"working through thoughts and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1486.53,"endTime":1490.13,"body":"feelings. And, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1490.13,"endTime":1496.49,"body":"remember I developed kind of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1490.13,"endTime":1496.49,"body":"mantras like, with people who've"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1496.49,"endTime":1501.26,"body":"been attacked or assaulted, and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1496.49,"endTime":1501.26,"body":"because of their race, because"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1501.26,"endTime":1507.44,"body":"the street becomes, becomes a"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1501.26,"endTime":1507.44,"body":"place of harm. And I kind of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1507.44,"endTime":1511.34,"body":"said to people that these"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1507.44,"endTime":1511.34,"body":"pavements are just as much yours"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1511.34,"endTime":1514.34,"body":"as they are everybody else's;"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1511.34,"endTime":1514.34,"body":"claim the pavements for yourself"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1514.34,"endTime":1518.39,"body":"and particularly when working"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1514.34,"endTime":1518.39,"body":"with with them, young black men,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1519.59,"endTime":1522.53,"body":"who feel that, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1519.59,"endTime":1522.53,"body":"people walk towards them, that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1522.53,"endTime":1526.67,"body":"they're a threat just by the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1522.53,"endTime":1526.67,"body":"marker effect just by being"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1526.67,"endTime":1529.46,"body":"black walking on the pavement"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1526.67,"endTime":1529.46,"body":"and having people walk away from"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1529.46,"endTime":1533.51,"body":"you and touch their handbags and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1529.46,"endTime":1533.51,"body":"all those kinds of things. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1533.57,"endTime":1536.72,"body":"the street becomes a place where"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1533.57,"endTime":1536.72,"body":"you've got got to reclaim that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1536.72,"endTime":1541.4,"body":"for yourself, to be brave enough"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1536.72,"endTime":1541.4,"body":"to walk it. And so yeah, so I've"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1541.4,"endTime":1545.69,"body":"kind of, I've had my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1541.4,"endTime":1545.69,"body":"relationship with CBT, and the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1545.69,"endTime":1549.59,"body":"more mechanistic approaches like"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1545.69,"endTime":1549.59,"body":"everybody else, and who comes"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1549.59,"endTime":1552.11,"body":"from a, from a different"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1549.59,"endTime":1552.11,"body":"approach on the humanistic"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1552.11,"endTime":1557.0,"body":"approach. And I've learned that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1552.11,"endTime":1557.0,"body":"it's, you know, it's been"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1557.0,"endTime":1561.11,"body":"incredibly useful. And I guess I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1557.0,"endTime":1561.11,"body":"wouldn't introduce anything like"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1561.11,"endTime":1565.07,"body":"that with a client if I hadn't"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1561.11,"endTime":1565.07,"body":"discussed it with them. You"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1565.07,"endTime":1566.9,"body":"know, I've had some brilliant"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1565.07,"endTime":1566.9,"body":"supervision. And people have"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1566.9,"endTime":1570.32,"body":"said, the CBT supervisors, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1566.9,"endTime":1570.32,"body":"know, saying to me, have you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1570.32,"endTime":1574.76,"body":"thought about this, Susan, and,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1570.32,"endTime":1574.76,"body":"you know, works completely"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1574.76,"endTime":1582.23,"body":"outside my comfort zone. But"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1574.76,"endTime":1582.23,"body":"also kind of, really like the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1582.23,"endTime":1585.08,"body":"whole notion of acceptance, and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1582.23,"endTime":1585.08,"body":"that, you know, working with"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1585.08,"endTime":1589.07,"body":"people who've been attacked, or"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1585.08,"endTime":1589.07,"body":"been abused, because their race,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1589.13,"endTime":1594.74,"body":"I kind of know, talks a lot"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1589.13,"endTime":1594.74,"body":"about accepting certain levels"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1594.74,"endTime":1597.83,"body":"of anxiety and hyper vigilance."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1594.74,"endTime":1597.83,"body":"And I feel like that myself, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1597.83,"endTime":1600.44,"body":"know, I've been physically"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1597.83,"endTime":1600.44,"body":"assaulted as a child and several"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1600.44,"endTime":1603.86,"body":"times as an adult. And I know"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1600.44,"endTime":1603.86,"body":"that I, I'm never going to feel"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1603.86,"endTime":1608.69,"body":"safe and kind of that's okay for"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1603.86,"endTime":1608.69,"body":"me. I've adapted, I change my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1608.69,"endTime":1612.53,"body":"behaviour. I don't feel I've got"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1608.69,"endTime":1612.53,"body":"to live up to the expectations"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1612.53,"endTime":1615.11,"body":"of others to be different or to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1612.53,"endTime":1615.11,"body":"somehow get over that or to be"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1615.11,"endTime":1618.77,"body":"stronger. And or to be stronger"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1615.11,"endTime":1618.77,"body":"against the whole society."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1618.77,"endTime":1623.75,"body":"That's kind of ritually isn't"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1618.77,"endTime":1623.75,"body":"it? I. No. So I've got all sorts"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1623.75,"endTime":1626.93,"body":"of protective things around me."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1623.75,"endTime":1626.93,"body":"I think it's okay to be like"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1626.93,"endTime":1629.9,"body":"that. So I guess there's, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1626.93,"endTime":1629.9,"body":"I work in many, many different"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1629.9,"endTime":1634.64,"body":"ways with people. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1629.9,"endTime":1634.64,"body":"grounded in in, in person"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1634.64,"endTime":1636.5,"body":"centred and a multicultural"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1634.64,"endTime":1636.5,"body":"perspective."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1637.94,"endTime":1640.46,"body":"that runs like a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1637.94,"endTime":1640.46,"body":"thread, through all the work"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1640.46,"endTime":1641.06,"body":"that you do."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1642.53,"endTime":1644.27,"body":"Yeah, it does. It"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1642.53,"endTime":1644.27,"body":"does. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1646.06,"endTime":1648.22,"body":"That's really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1646.06,"endTime":1648.22,"body":"interesting. So that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1648.22,"endTime":1651.55,"body":"kind of like how your approach"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1648.22,"endTime":1651.55,"body":"and your your therapeutic work."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1651.79,"endTime":1655.0,"body":"And, and I know, obviously, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1651.79,"endTime":1655.0,"body":"you do a lot of talking now"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1655.0,"endTime":1658.3,"body":"around racism and prejudice, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1655.0,"endTime":1658.3,"body":"you've got your book out. But"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1658.3,"endTime":1661.72,"body":"what was your early career like"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1658.3,"endTime":1661.72,"body":"as a counsellor and a therapist?"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1661.78,"endTime":1664.27,"body":"And can you tell us about some"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1661.78,"endTime":1664.27,"body":"of the the other roles that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1664.27,"endTime":1665.98,"body":"you've had in your career?"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1667.31,"endTime":1668.69,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Thank"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1667.31,"endTime":1668.69,"body":"you, Peter. It's a good"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1668.69,"endTime":1673.52,"body":"question. And I, well, my first"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1668.69,"endTime":1673.52,"body":"job was like, one hour or two"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1673.52,"endTime":1677.18,"body":"hours working in for Barnardo's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1673.52,"endTime":1677.18,"body":"multicultural resource centre,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1677.66,"endTime":1682.67,"body":"with BAME women on some self"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1677.66,"endTime":1682.67,"body":"esteem work. Literally, my first"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1682.67,"endTime":1685.4,"body":"job was running self esteem"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1682.67,"endTime":1685.4,"body":"workshops with BAME woman and I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1685.4,"endTime":1689.42,"body":"was just, I just loved it. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1685.4,"endTime":1689.42,"body":"then through that, I got some"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1689.42,"endTime":1693.5,"body":"work, working with some BAME"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1689.42,"endTime":1693.5,"body":"clients, who actually were"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1693.5,"endTime":1697.67,"body":"really on the severe end of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1693.5,"endTime":1697.67,"body":"having severe mental health"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1697.67,"endTime":1701.03,"body":"problems; actually, it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1697.67,"endTime":1701.03,"body":"particularly appropriate. But"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1701.54,"endTime":1704.36,"body":"those people still come up to me"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1701.54,"endTime":1704.36,"body":"today and thank me in the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1704.36,"endTime":1708.17,"body":"street, because I live quite"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1704.36,"endTime":1708.17,"body":"near this resource centre. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1708.92,"endTime":1711.65,"body":"so, you know, I couldn't have"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1708.92,"endTime":1711.65,"body":"done such a bad job as a newly"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1711.65,"endTime":1716.21,"body":"qualified person with severe"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1711.65,"endTime":1716.21,"body":"difficulties. But, um, so"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1716.21,"endTime":1719.12,"body":"that's, that was, that was my"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1716.21,"endTime":1719.12,"body":"first job. And then I was the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1719.12,"endTime":1722.06,"body":"very first black counsellor to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1719.12,"endTime":1722.06,"body":"be employed by the then South"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1722.24,"endTime":1728.42,"body":"Haven Health Authority. And, and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1722.24,"endTime":1728.42,"body":"I was, you know, dealing with"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1728.42,"endTime":1732.26,"body":"the traumatic experiences of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1728.42,"endTime":1732.26,"body":"racism in people's lives, being"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1732.26,"endTime":1736.16,"body":"physically attacked and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1732.26,"endTime":1736.16,"body":"negotiating white workspaces,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1736.19,"endTime":1743.69,"body":"managing college, university,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1736.19,"endTime":1743.69,"body":"identity, you know, being"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1743.72,"endTime":1750.32,"body":"possibly over medicalized, and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1743.72,"endTime":1750.32,"body":"all sorts of things.  I was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1750.32,"endTime":1759.17,"body":"like, yeah, I mean, that was it."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1750.32,"endTime":1759.17,"body":"It was, it was a very, it was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1759.17,"endTime":1763.49,"body":"tough. Those years were really"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1759.17,"endTime":1763.49,"body":"tough. And I felt like I was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1763.49,"endTime":1767.87,"body":"very alone. I didn't, I never"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1763.49,"endTime":1767.87,"body":"had a BAME supervisor. I didn't"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1767.87,"endTime":1774.08,"body":"really have anybody to talk to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1767.87,"endTime":1774.08,"body":"about how different it was - the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1774.08,"endTime":1778.49,"body":"people, people that I was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1774.08,"endTime":1778.49,"body":"working with, and the context in"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1778.49,"endTime":1783.83,"body":"which I was working in and there"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1778.49,"endTime":1783.83,"body":"was one experience that I had,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1784.16,"endTime":1790.1,"body":"because all the people I worked"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1784.16,"endTime":1790.1,"body":"with in this, it was called an"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1790.1,"endTime":1792.74,"body":"??? actually, we worked for nine"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1790.1,"endTime":1792.74,"body":"general practices and they were"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1792.74,"endTime":1799.04,"body":"all white. And I remember I was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1792.74,"endTime":1799.04,"body":"working with this woman, who had"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1799.04,"endTime":1801.86,"body":"been assaulted and she rang me"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1799.04,"endTime":1801.86,"body":"up. And she wanted to know how"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1801.86,"endTime":1805.55,"body":"to get to the health centre, go"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1801.86,"endTime":1805.55,"body":"down there, and I was giving her"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1805.55,"endTime":1808.94,"body":"a very detailed description of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1805.55,"endTime":1808.94,"body":"how to get to the health centre."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1810.11,"endTime":1813.77,"body":"Now, and then a white"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1810.11,"endTime":1813.77,"body":"practitioner said to me, in the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1813.77,"endTime":1818.63,"body":"middle of this conversation,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1813.77,"endTime":1818.63,"body":"said, 'You're disempowering your"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1818.63,"endTime":1824.72,"body":"client'. I was asbolutely, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1818.63,"endTime":1824.72,"body":"was, I thought I said, I sort of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1824.72,"endTime":1829.55,"body":"I put my hand out, essentially"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1824.72,"endTime":1829.55,"body":"to stop her talking to me. I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1829.55,"endTime":1833.15,"body":"was, I never ever thought I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1829.55,"endTime":1833.15,"body":"would be able to get her to come"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1833.15,"endTime":1837.2,"body":"to the counselling room, and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1833.15,"endTime":1837.2,"body":"never be able to get her to come"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1837.2,"endTime":1839.33,"body":"to the health centre. So I was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1837.2,"endTime":1839.33,"body":"trying to do everything I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1839.33,"endTime":1843.8,"body":"possibly could to reassure her."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1839.33,"endTime":1843.8,"body":"And you know, and I suppose"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1843.8,"endTime":1846.11,"body":"that's the kind of thing that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1843.8,"endTime":1846.11,"body":"was when, you know, I didn't,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1846.38,"endTime":1848.99,"body":"you didn't have the language,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1846.38,"endTime":1848.99,"body":"then I didn't have the language"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1849.02,"endTime":1854.24,"body":"to, to actually say to this"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1849.02,"endTime":1854.24,"body":"person, this other practitioner"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1854.24,"endTime":1859.19,"body":"that had said this to me. It was"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1854.24,"endTime":1859.19,"body":"outrageous. And so I think I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1859.19,"endTime":1862.46,"body":"probably, I can't remember what"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1859.19,"endTime":1862.46,"body":"I said. But that really stuck in"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1862.46,"endTime":1866.0,"body":"my mind is, you know, what it's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1862.46,"endTime":1866.0,"body":"like sometimes to be a BAME"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1866.0,"endTime":1872.27,"body":"therapist working in an all"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1866.0,"endTime":1872.27,"body":"white service. I think there's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1872.3,"endTime":1877.64,"body":"an absolute, definitely a role"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1872.3,"endTime":1877.64,"body":"for white allies. But it's kind"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1877.64,"endTime":1883.91,"body":"of like, you know, can't be kind"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1877.64,"endTime":1883.91,"body":"of slacktivism, it's got to be,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1884.3,"endTime":1887.69,"body":"it can't be performative. It's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1884.3,"endTime":1887.69,"body":"got to actually meet, there has"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1887.69,"endTime":1890.96,"body":"to be action. And you know, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1887.69,"endTime":1890.96,"body":"can you can, you can tell it's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1890.96,"endTime":1895.76,"body":"performative, when there's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1890.96,"endTime":1895.76,"body":"silence and not understanding,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1896.21,"endTime":1900.41,"body":"when there's denial or lack of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1896.21,"endTime":1900.41,"body":"acceptance, or, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1900.41,"endTime":1902.96,"body":"power gets just gets taken away"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1900.41,"endTime":1902.96,"body":"from you in an unexpected"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1902.99,"endTime":1905.27,"body":"fashion in a meeting or"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1902.99,"endTime":1905.27,"body":"something. I mean, there are so"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1905.27,"endTime":1910.61,"body":"many ways in which white allies"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1905.27,"endTime":1910.61,"body":"can make a difference. And I,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1911.27,"endTime":1913.52,"body":"you know, the structures that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1911.27,"endTime":1913.52,"body":"are in place, I guess that that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1913.52,"endTime":1916.49,"body":"white allies need to think about"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1913.52,"endTime":1916.49,"body":"curriculum changes, think about"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1916.49,"endTime":1920.66,"body":"mentoring, need to think about"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1916.49,"endTime":1920.66,"body":"supervision, and basic vision of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1920.66,"endTime":1923.75,"body":"what people want, it's about"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1920.66,"endTime":1923.75,"body":"choice, isn't it? And you think"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1923.75,"endTime":1927.86,"body":"about maybe across, I think, if"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1923.75,"endTime":1927.86,"body":"I was running a course, I might"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1927.86,"endTime":1932.9,"body":"set up, you know, the different"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1927.86,"endTime":1932.9,"body":"courses usually don't go in"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1932.9,"endTime":1936.62,"body":"different year groups and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1932.9,"endTime":1936.62,"body":"setting up, you know, a BAME"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1936.62,"endTime":1940.94,"body":"support group. Within that, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1936.62,"endTime":1940.94,"body":"think there are just many, many"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1940.94,"endTime":1945.02,"body":"things and, you know, input into"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1940.94,"endTime":1945.02,"body":"curriculum change all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1945.02,"endTime":1949.52,"body":"stuff really, I imagine. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1945.02,"endTime":1949.52,"body":"so there needs to be some"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1949.52,"endTime":1955.76,"body":"resource behind this. Because"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1949.52,"endTime":1955.76,"body":"that is definitely affecting the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1955.76,"endTime":1959.0,"body":"amount of BAME people that go on"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1955.76,"endTime":1959.0,"body":"courses, that simply having the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1959.0,"endTime":1963.65,"body":"money and the time, and it's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1959.0,"endTime":1963.65,"body":"because everybody knows that,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1963.65,"endTime":1968.21,"body":"but, and I was involved in a"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1963.65,"endTime":1968.21,"body":"project many, many years ago,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1969.17,"endTime":1975.05,"body":"which was about raising some"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1969.17,"endTime":1975.05,"body":"money to support people to come"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1975.05,"endTime":1978.47,"body":"into counselling courses. And so"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1975.05,"endTime":1978.47,"body":"I think those kinds of things"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1978.47,"endTime":1983.93,"body":"are really, really good ideas."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1978.47,"endTime":1983.93,"body":"And I, you know, I know it's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1983.93,"endTime":1993.59,"body":"difficult, but you know, having"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1983.93,"endTime":1993.59,"body":"a BAME supervisor is such a hard"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1993.59,"endTime":1997.16,"body":"thing to find, a BAME"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1993.59,"endTime":1997.16,"body":"supervisor. If you if you, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1997.16,"endTime":2002.08,"body":"know, you're going through"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":1997.16,"endTime":2002.08,"body":"training. I don't know, I guess"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2002.08,"endTime":2004.93,"body":"with all the stuff around zoom"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2002.08,"endTime":2004.93,"body":"and everything, it's more"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2004.93,"endTime":2008.08,"body":"possible to do that, because you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2004.93,"endTime":2008.08,"body":"don't have to necessarily look"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2008.14,"endTime":2013.24,"body":"within your own town. Recently,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2008.14,"endTime":2013.24,"body":"I've had conversations with BAME"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2013.24,"endTime":2016.42,"body":"people just saying that they"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2013.24,"endTime":2016.42,"body":"wish that when that thing"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2016.42,"endTime":2021.64,"body":"happened in that meeting, that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2016.42,"endTime":2021.64,"body":"white people, you know, didn't"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2021.64,"endTime":2025.39,"body":"act as bystanders and challenged"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2021.64,"endTime":2025.39,"body":"it. And I think that's where a"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2025.39,"endTime":2032.05,"body":"lot of BAME people get hurt."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2025.39,"endTime":2032.05,"body":"Because it just takes you back,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2032.05,"endTime":2034.48,"body":"it takes you by surprise, oh"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2032.05,"endTime":2034.48,"body":"hang on, I've been working with"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2034.48,"endTime":2036.79,"body":"this person for years. And I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2034.48,"endTime":2036.79,"body":"thought they were, you know,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2036.79,"endTime":2039.01,"body":"they just didn't stand up to me,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2036.79,"endTime":2039.01,"body":"they didn't really notice it, or"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2039.01,"endTime":2043.69,"body":"they said they didn't notice it."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2039.01,"endTime":2043.69,"body":"And, and that's why I think for"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2043.69,"endTime":2050.08,"body":"me, to me, and white allie-ship"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2043.69,"endTime":2050.08,"body":"has got an incredibly important"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2050.08,"endTime":2058.0,"body":"role in the here and now of the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2050.08,"endTime":2058.0,"body":"way race interacts in white"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2058.0,"endTime":2058.54,"body":"spaces."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2059.86,"endTime":2062.62,"body":"And that's, as"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2059.86,"endTime":2062.62,"body":"we talked about before, it's not"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2062.62,"endTime":2065.59,"body":"that performative allie-ship,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2062.62,"endTime":2065.59,"body":"it's kind of actively"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2065.98,"endTime":2072.49,"body":"challenging, and calling out"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2065.98,"endTime":2072.49,"body":"racism and prejudice. When, when"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2072.49,"endTime":2074.41,"body":"it's, when it's seen and heard."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2075.1,"endTime":2080.02,"body":"Yes. Yeah. I'm"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2075.1,"endTime":2080.02,"body":"not saying it's an easy thing to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2080.02,"endTime":2081.19,"body":"do. It's a difficult thing to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2080.02,"endTime":2081.19,"body":"do."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2081.78,"endTime":2084.33,"body":"No, but it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2081.78,"endTime":2084.33,"body":"something that needs to be done."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2084.33,"endTime":2089.94,"body":"It needs an active participation"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2084.33,"endTime":2089.94,"body":"in that rather than a passive"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2089.94,"endTime":2096.66,"body":"observance of it. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2089.94,"endTime":2096.66,"body":"Yeah. Okay, and thank you very"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2096.66,"endTime":2100.92,"body":"much. That was very interesting."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2096.66,"endTime":2100.92,"body":"We've kind of come to the end of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2101.52,"endTime":2104.64,"body":"questions that I had really, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2101.52,"endTime":2104.64,"body":"but one of the things I did want"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2104.64,"endTime":2107.76,"body":"to ask you about before we kind"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2104.64,"endTime":2107.76,"body":"of finish was, obviously you've"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2107.76,"endTime":2110.67,"body":"got your book out at the moment"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2107.76,"endTime":2110.67,"body":"'Overcoming Everyday Racism',"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2111.39,"endTime":2114.75,"body":"which I hear is doing very well."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2111.39,"endTime":2114.75,"body":"And I wondered what else you've"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2114.75,"endTime":2117.15,"body":"got planned for the future, if"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2114.75,"endTime":2117.15,"body":"you got any other projects, or"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2117.15,"endTime":2119.61,"body":"maybe another book that you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2117.15,"endTime":2119.61,"body":"potentially working on at the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2119.61,"endTime":2120.27,"body":"moment."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2123.3,"endTime":2127.56,"body":"I am, I think,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2123.3,"endTime":2127.56,"body":"you know, at the moment I'm kind"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2127.56,"endTime":2130.89,"body":"of like everybody else I, I'm,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2127.56,"endTime":2130.89,"body":"I'm really kind of worried about"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2130.89,"endTime":2134.28,"body":"the future of the world. I'm"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2130.89,"endTime":2134.28,"body":"worried about the impacts and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2134.85,"endTime":2138.81,"body":"self inflicted global warming"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2134.85,"endTime":2138.81,"body":"and on an individual level, I'm"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2138.81,"endTime":2141.63,"body":"kind of worried about my own"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2138.81,"endTime":2141.63,"body":"mortality. And, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2141.66,"endTime":2144.06,"body":"interesting, we start to talk,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2141.66,"endTime":2144.06,"body":"we talked a lot about death at"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2144.06,"endTime":2149.37,"body":"the beginning. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2144.06,"endTime":2149.37,"body":"people have been faced with that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2150.24,"endTime":2153.9,"body":"at the moment, and I'm, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2150.24,"endTime":2153.9,"body":"going back to the kind of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2153.9,"endTime":2157.62,"body":"everydayness of life. I don't, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2153.9,"endTime":2157.62,"body":"don't really feel like making"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2157.62,"endTime":2162.96,"body":"plans at the moment. I think,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2157.62,"endTime":2162.96,"body":"I'm, I suppose the only plans"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2162.96,"endTime":2165.12,"body":"I've got, is I want to be with"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2162.96,"endTime":2165.12,"body":"my children, I want to stay"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2165.15,"endTime":2170.64,"body":"safe. I want to be healthy. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2165.15,"endTime":2170.64,"body":"I'm grateful for the life at the"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2170.64,"endTime":2177.54,"body":"moment. I'm, I'm, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2170.64,"endTime":2177.54,"body":"kind of, yeah, I just want to"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2177.54,"endTime":2181.11,"body":"stay with what I have. Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2177.54,"endTime":2181.11,"body":"don't want to move too fast into"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2181.11,"endTime":2183.96,"body":"anything else, because I'm, you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2181.11,"endTime":2183.96,"body":"know, a little bit now Peter,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2183.96,"endTime":2186.54,"body":"and you know I might get some"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2183.96,"endTime":2186.54,"body":"crazy idea, start doing this and"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2186.54,"endTime":2189.96,"body":"start doing that. And I have, I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2186.54,"endTime":2189.96,"body":"am quite somebody who kind of is"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2189.96,"endTime":2191.67,"body":"really annoying, and I wake up"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2189.96,"endTime":2191.67,"body":"in the morning with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2191.67,"endTime":2195.84,"body":"energy and a lot of ideas. And"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2191.67,"endTime":2195.84,"body":"so I'm just trying to calm that"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2195.93,"endTime":2201.54,"body":"down inside of me at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2195.93,"endTime":2201.54,"body":"because life feels fragile, but"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2201.54,"endTime":2205.56,"body":"it also feels incredibly"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2201.54,"endTime":2205.56,"body":"precious? How are you feeling"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2205.56,"endTime":2206.01,"body":"now?"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2206.97,"endTime":2209.1,"body":"Well, I was just"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2206.97,"endTime":2209.1,"body":"as you were talking then, and I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2209.1,"endTime":2215.16,"body":"was thinking about, in a similar"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2209.1,"endTime":2215.16,"body":"way, how I can be very active"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2215.16,"endTime":2218.22,"body":"full of ideas, lots of energy"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2215.16,"endTime":2218.22,"body":"and lots of things going on. But"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2218.67,"endTime":2221.46,"body":"actually sometimes it's just"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2218.67,"endTime":2221.46,"body":"really important to be present"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2221.49,"endTime":2224.97,"body":"in the in the moment and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2221.49,"endTime":2224.97,"body":"appreciate kind of what's what's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2224.97,"endTime":2227.64,"body":"around you, and what you what"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2224.97,"endTime":2227.64,"body":"you've got, rather than where"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2227.64,"endTime":2231.6,"body":"you're going. And I think, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2227.64,"endTime":2231.6,"body":"it just made me reflect on that,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2231.6,"endTime":2235.26,"body":"really, and think, I think if"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2231.6,"endTime":2235.26,"body":"we're looking at this whole idea"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2235.26,"endTime":2238.8,"body":"of lockdown and what's happened"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2235.26,"endTime":2238.8,"body":"over the last few months, it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2238.8,"endTime":2242.88,"body":"probably given a lot of us more"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2238.8,"endTime":2242.88,"body":"opportunity to kind of reflect"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2243.0,"endTime":2246.39,"body":"on our own lives and maybe maybe"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2243.0,"endTime":2246.39,"body":"a bit more of a deeper way than"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2246.39,"endTime":2247.38,"body":"we have done before."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2247.75,"endTime":2251.77,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2247.75,"endTime":2251.77,"body":"And yeah, so I'm gonna sort of"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2251.77,"endTime":2254.65,"body":"say that I'm not sure yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2256.61,"endTime":2258.59,"body":"I think that a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2256.61,"endTime":2258.59,"body":"so-called watch this space."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2259.35,"endTime":2266.79,"body":"Yeah, watch this."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2259.35,"endTime":2266.79,"body":"Caught me out there Peter. Thank"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2266.79,"endTime":2269.52,"body":"you very so much, because I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2266.79,"endTime":2269.52,"body":"really, sorry, I talked over you"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2269.52,"endTime":2272.97,"body":"then. But thank you so much. I"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2269.52,"endTime":2272.97,"body":"really enjoyed this"},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2272.97,"endTime":2273.63,"body":"conversation."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2274.17,"endTime":2276.18,"body":"Oh, no, thank"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2274.17,"endTime":2276.18,"body":"you very much for your time and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2276.18,"endTime":2279.96,"body":"it's been lovely to speak to you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2276.18,"endTime":2279.96,"body":"and find out a bit more about"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2279.96,"endTime":2281.97,"body":"you and wish you every luck for"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2279.96,"endTime":2281.97,"body":"the future."},{"speaker":"Susan Cousins","startTime":2282.48,"endTime":2283.11,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":2283.92,"endTime":2286.71,"body":"Thank you for listening"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":2283.92,"endTime":2286.71,"body":"to the Therapist Connect"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":2286.83,"endTime":2295.68,"body":"podcast. Go To"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":2286.83,"endTime":2295.68,"body":"www.therapists-connect.com for"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":2295.68,"endTime":2297.93,"body":"more discussions and debates"}]}