{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.54,"body":"To the Therapists"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.54,"body":"Connect podcast, Dr. Peter"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":3.54,"endTime":7.89,"body":"Blundell, interviews therapists"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":3.54,"endTime":7.89,"body":"about their work and experiences"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":8.19,"endTime":9.69,"body":"within the therapists community"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":11.43,"endTime":12.96,"body":"Hello and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":11.43,"endTime":12.96,"body":"welcome to the Therapists"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":12.96,"endTime":15.63,"body":"Connect podcast. In this"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":12.96,"endTime":15.63,"body":"episode, I'm delighted to be"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":15.63,"endTime":19.35,"body":"interviewing Erin Stevens. Erin"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":15.63,"endTime":19.35,"body":"is a qualified counselor and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":19.35,"endTime":22.11,"body":"psychotherapist as well as an"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":19.35,"endTime":22.11,"body":"accredited member of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":22.11,"endTime":26.31,"body":"National Counselling Society."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":22.11,"endTime":26.31,"body":"Erin is a writer. She has a blog"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":26.31,"endTime":29.28,"body":"called 'A Client First' where"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":26.31,"endTime":29.28,"body":"she writes about counselling and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":29.28,"endTime":32.67,"body":"psychotherapy. But she also"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":29.28,"endTime":32.67,"body":"works as a freelance content"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":32.67,"endTime":37.26,"body":"writer, and she's also a poet."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":32.67,"endTime":37.26,"body":"Erin is also a member of 'The"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":37.29,"endTime":41.37,"body":"Psychotherapists and counsellors"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":37.29,"endTime":41.37,"body":"for social responsibility', and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":41.37,"endTime":46.05,"body":"works alongside other members on"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":41.37,"endTime":46.05,"body":"their steering group. Her"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":46.05,"endTime":48.48,"body":"interests include working with"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":46.05,"endTime":48.48,"body":"clients who have been harmed in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":48.48,"endTime":51.9,"body":"psychotherapy, the therapeutic"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":48.48,"endTime":51.9,"body":"use of creative writing, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":51.9,"endTime":55.14,"body":"group work. But she also writes"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":51.9,"endTime":55.14,"body":"on a variety of other issues"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":55.14,"endTime":58.56,"body":"such as ethics, social justice,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":55.14,"endTime":58.56,"body":"equality and power in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":58.56,"endTime":62.82,"body":"counselling and psychotherapy."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":58.56,"endTime":62.82,"body":"Erin, welcome to the podcast"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":62.82,"endTime":63.24,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":66.18,"endTime":66.72,"body":"Hello,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":67.11,"endTime":70.89,"body":"Hello again. How"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":67.11,"endTime":70.89,"body":"are you?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":71.52,"endTime":73.02,"body":"I'm not too bad."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":71.52,"endTime":73.02,"body":"Thanks. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":73.56,"endTime":76.23,"body":"Good. I don't"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":73.56,"endTime":76.23,"body":"think we've ever spoken about"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":76.23,"endTime":80.55,"body":"this, actually. I don't know why"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":76.23,"endTime":80.55,"body":"you became a therapist in the,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":80.61,"endTime":84.66,"body":"in the first place. So can you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":80.61,"endTime":84.66,"body":"tell us like what, what drew you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":84.66,"endTime":87.57,"body":"to the profession? What made you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":84.66,"endTime":87.57,"body":"want to be a therapist?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":88.35,"endTime":94.32,"body":"Well, I started as"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":88.35,"endTime":94.32,"body":"a client. So basically, a few"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":94.32,"endTime":98.88,"body":"years ago now, my mum died. And"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":94.32,"endTime":98.88,"body":"after that, I'd never been to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":98.88,"endTime":102.18,"body":"therapy before, although you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":98.88,"endTime":102.18,"body":"could probably argue that maybe"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":102.18,"endTime":106.77,"body":"I should have heard it earlier."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":102.18,"endTime":106.77,"body":"But, and I went into therapy in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":106.77,"endTime":112.59,"body":"the months after my mum died."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":106.77,"endTime":112.59,"body":"And, I think it never occurred"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":112.59,"endTime":116.4,"body":"to me before that a relationship"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":112.59,"endTime":116.4,"body":"existed where you could kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":116.43,"endTime":120.33,"body":"cut the pleasantries and get"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":116.43,"endTime":120.33,"body":"straight into meeting the other"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":120.33,"endTime":123.48,"body":"at depth. I don't think I knew"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":120.33,"endTime":123.48,"body":"that such a relationship"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":123.48,"endTime":128.1,"body":"existed. And then, so when I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":123.48,"endTime":128.1,"body":"entered therapy, it was like,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":128.1,"endTime":131.88,"body":"wow, and I was just hooked on"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":128.1,"endTime":131.88,"body":"the idea of, you can actually"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":131.88,"endTime":134.04,"body":"have these kinds of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":131.88,"endTime":134.04,"body":"relationships with people where"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":134.04,"endTime":138.63,"body":"you, they meet you at depth and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":134.04,"endTime":138.63,"body":"I started reading Rogers. And"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":138.63,"endTime":141.06,"body":"this is before I'd even thought"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":138.63,"endTime":141.06,"body":"about training myself, I started"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":141.06,"endTime":144.27,"body":"reading Rogers, I was watching,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":141.06,"endTime":144.27,"body":"you know, the Gloria tapes on"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":144.27,"endTime":148.47,"body":"YouTube and I started, sort of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":144.27,"endTime":148.47,"body":"venturing towards Yalom and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":148.47,"endTime":151.32,"body":"different things and, and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":148.47,"endTime":151.32,"body":"looking at different ideas..."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":152.55,"endTime":157.32,"body":"this first therapeutic"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":152.55,"endTime":157.32,"body":"relationship had a lot of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":157.32,"endTime":162.69,"body":"difficulties attached to it."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":157.32,"endTime":162.69,"body":"And, and so I ended up leaving"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":163.2,"endTime":166.89,"body":"that relationship and finding a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":163.2,"endTime":166.89,"body":"different therapist after, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":166.89,"endTime":172.35,"body":"don't know, maybe a year or"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":166.89,"endTime":172.35,"body":"something. And, and it was kind"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":172.35,"endTime":178.68,"body":"of here that I really got an"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":172.35,"endTime":178.68,"body":"experience of the potential that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":178.68,"endTime":181.8,"body":"therapy had for change. Because"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":178.68,"endTime":181.8,"body":"I think, I think the first"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":181.8,"endTime":183.96,"body":"relationship really sort of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":181.8,"endTime":183.96,"body":"showed me something about"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":183.96,"endTime":187.77,"body":"therapy that was useful, in that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":183.96,"endTime":187.77,"body":"you could meet other people at"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":187.77,"endTime":192.21,"body":"depth but it didn't really,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":187.77,"endTime":192.21,"body":"there was no movement for me in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":192.21,"endTime":194.52,"body":"terms of my feelings and what"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":192.21,"endTime":194.52,"body":"was going on for me. So it was"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":194.52,"endTime":197.61,"body":"really when I found my current"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":194.52,"endTime":197.61,"body":"therapist, I'm still with that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":197.64,"endTime":202.53,"body":"therapist, erm, that things"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":197.64,"endTime":202.53,"body":"really started to move for me."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":202.53,"endTime":206.91,"body":"And I really saw what therapy"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":202.53,"endTime":206.91,"body":"was and how beneficial it could"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":206.91,"endTime":214.98,"body":"be. And at that point, I thought"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":206.91,"endTime":214.98,"body":"that I might like to train. I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":214.98,"endTime":220.17,"body":"thought I had an example in my"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":214.98,"endTime":220.17,"body":"mind of how not to do therapy,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":220.53,"endTime":223.32,"body":"and an example in my mind of how"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":220.53,"endTime":223.32,"body":"to do therapy, and I thought"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":223.32,"endTime":226.68,"body":"that would stand me in good"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":223.32,"endTime":226.68,"body":"stead and that it would be a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":226.68,"endTime":233.37,"body":"useful kind of thing to take"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":226.68,"endTime":233.37,"body":"into training. And so I started"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":233.37,"endTime":238.53,"body":"a certificate; I based my sort"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":233.37,"endTime":238.53,"body":"of training choice on"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":239.19,"endTime":243.03,"body":"convenience, rather than putting"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":239.19,"endTime":243.03,"body":"a great deal of thought into"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":243.06,"endTime":246.06,"body":"where I was going to train,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":243.06,"endTime":246.06,"body":"which, looking back, I think I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":246.06,"endTime":249.0,"body":"would probably do that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":246.06,"endTime":249.0,"body":"differently. If I could go back"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":249.0,"endTime":249.06,"body":"up.."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":249.06,"endTime":250.86,"body":"Happens to a lot"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":249.06,"endTime":250.86,"body":"of people like, in training,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":250.86,"endTime":251.49,"body":"though, doesn't it?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":252.08,"endTime":253.82,"body":"I think it happens"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":252.08,"endTime":253.82,"body":"with choosing the therapist as"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":253.82,"endTime":257.63,"body":"well. I mean, my first therapist"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":253.82,"endTime":257.63,"body":"was the closest therapist, to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":257.63,"endTime":260.51,"body":"me. And the second therapist was"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":257.63,"endTime":260.51,"body":"the second closest therapist to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":260.51,"endTime":264.23,"body":"me. So that's kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":260.51,"endTime":264.23,"body":"you don't really think of any"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":264.23,"endTime":270.5,"body":"other way of doing it, I think."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":264.23,"endTime":270.5,"body":"And then.. So anyway, on my"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":270.5,"endTime":274.37,"body":"first day of training, I went in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":270.5,"endTime":274.37,"body":"and sat down and the tutor was"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":274.79,"endTime":279.65,"body":"giving an introductory sort of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":274.79,"endTime":279.65,"body":"welcome. And he said, there's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":279.65,"endTime":285.77,"body":"one thing you should know. And"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":279.65,"endTime":285.77,"body":"it's that all clients lie. And"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":285.77,"endTime":289.07,"body":"this is my first experience of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":285.77,"endTime":289.07,"body":"training or anything, you know,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":289.07,"endTime":295.04,"body":"and I thought I don't, I don't"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":289.07,"endTime":295.04,"body":"lie, and I'm a client and I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":295.04,"endTime":298.31,"body":"thought if you know, I mean, my"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":295.04,"endTime":298.31,"body":"therapist said that I'm one of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":298.31,"endTime":300.59,"body":"the most scrupulously honest"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":298.31,"endTime":300.59,"body":"people he's ever met. Which I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":300.59,"endTime":304.19,"body":"think, in therapy, I am - not"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":300.59,"endTime":304.19,"body":"always - but in therapy, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":304.19,"endTime":310.4,"body":"certainly am. I go to great"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":304.19,"endTime":310.4,"body":"lengths to, to, to be as"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":310.43,"endTime":313.82,"body":"authentic and honest as I can"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":310.43,"endTime":313.82,"body":"be. And so I found it really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":313.82,"endTime":316.79,"body":"quite offensive. And I didn't"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":313.82,"endTime":316.79,"body":"say anything, because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":316.79,"endTime":319.67,"body":"it's our first day of training"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":316.79,"endTime":319.67,"body":"and I probably would argue with"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":319.67,"endTime":325.64,"body":"it now. But at the time, at the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":319.67,"endTime":325.64,"body":"time, I didn't, and it made me"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":325.64,"endTime":329.09,"body":"think, is this the right"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":325.64,"endTime":329.09,"body":"profession for me? Is this where"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":329.09,"endTime":333.2,"body":"I want to be? Or am I just gonna"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":329.09,"endTime":333.2,"body":"feel to 'othered' as a client,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":333.2,"endTime":338.78,"body":"in this environment, and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":333.2,"endTime":338.78,"body":"actually, I'm glad I stayed,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":338.78,"endTime":343.01,"body":"because I made great friends, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":338.78,"endTime":343.01,"body":"loved many aspects of the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":343.01,"endTime":346.61,"body":"training, you know, I really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":343.01,"endTime":346.61,"body":"enjoyed theory. And I really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":346.7,"endTime":349.19,"body":"enjoyed, you know, as we went"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":346.7,"endTime":349.19,"body":"forward, good skills and all"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":349.19,"endTime":352.07,"body":"that stuff. And I really did"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":349.19,"endTime":352.07,"body":"have pretty much a good"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":352.07,"endTime":354.62,"body":"experience with training. I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":352.07,"endTime":354.62,"body":"think I was quite fortunate in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":354.62,"endTime":360.74,"body":"that I was quite active in my"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":354.62,"endTime":360.74,"body":"own learning as well. So while I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":360.74,"endTime":363.8,"body":"feel that some things could have"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":360.74,"endTime":363.8,"body":"been covered at greater depth, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":363.8,"endTime":368.87,"body":"did sort of proactively seek out"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":363.8,"endTime":368.87,"body":"that learning myself. But I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":368.87,"endTime":373.16,"body":"think there is something, there"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":368.87,"endTime":373.16,"body":"was something for me in training"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":373.19,"endTime":377.03,"body":"about the kind of duality of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":373.19,"endTime":377.03,"body":"being a trainee and being a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":377.03,"endTime":379.31,"body":"client. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":377.03,"endTime":379.31,"body":"something I still experience now"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":379.31,"endTime":385.31,"body":"I'm qualified as well.  That"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":379.31,"endTime":385.31,"body":"kind of dual pull; something"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":385.31,"endTime":389.72,"body":"about belonging in there. So"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":385.31,"endTime":389.72,"body":"that's kind of how it's how it's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":389.72,"endTime":392.69,"body":"been for me, but I still I mean,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":389.72,"endTime":392.69,"body":"my Twitter handle is"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":393.02,"endTime":396.74,"body":"@aclientfirst, my blog is 'A"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":393.02,"endTime":396.74,"body":"client first' and for me, that's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":396.74,"endTime":400.1,"body":"got two meanings. It means, you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":396.74,"endTime":400.1,"body":"know, it's a reminder to myself"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":400.1,"endTime":403.1,"body":"that I was a client first and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":400.1,"endTime":403.1,"body":"how I experienced training and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":403.1,"endTime":406.97,"body":"all that kind of stuff. And also"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":403.1,"endTime":406.97,"body":"that, you know, clients really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":406.97,"endTime":411.26,"body":"should be at the forefront of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":406.97,"endTime":411.26,"body":"what we do, and how we do it."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":411.41,"endTime":411.86,"body":"So..."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":413.82,"endTime":416.01,"body":"I completely"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":413.82,"endTime":416.01,"body":"agree with that. And I think,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":416.82,"endTime":420.87,"body":"experience in therapy as a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":416.82,"endTime":420.87,"body":"client, I think is so important."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":420.93,"endTime":423.57,"body":"And I think for therapists to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":420.93,"endTime":423.57,"body":"kind of actually see it from"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":423.57,"endTime":427.5,"body":"that perspective, because I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":423.57,"endTime":427.5,"body":"think there is some kind of, or"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":427.5,"endTime":431.94,"body":"there can be a disconnect"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":427.5,"endTime":431.94,"body":"sometimes between understanding"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":431.94,"endTime":434.49,"body":"what it's like to be the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":431.94,"endTime":434.49,"body":"therapist in the room versus the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":434.49,"endTime":438.12,"body":"client in the room. But I can"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":434.49,"endTime":438.12,"body":"also feel as well, that first"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":438.12,"endTime":442.2,"body":"day of training, that kind of a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":438.12,"endTime":442.2,"body":"statement like that, that all"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":442.29,"endTime":447.0,"body":"clients lie is... gosh... it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":442.29,"endTime":447.0,"body":"such a, it makes such a strong"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":447.03,"endTime":451.65,"body":"statement in such, for someone's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":447.03,"endTime":451.65,"body":"first day of training. I can't"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":451.65,"endTime":455.55,"body":"imagine what other people were"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":451.65,"endTime":455.55,"body":"thinking during that moment,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":455.58,"endTime":457.08,"body":"when someone would say that.."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":457.3,"endTime":458.44,"body":"well, I would"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":457.3,"endTime":458.44,"body":"think that people that didn't"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":458.44,"endTime":460.6,"body":"have any experience with therapy"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":458.44,"endTime":460.6,"body":"might have thought, oh, clients"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":460.6,"endTime":465.34,"body":"lie, which worries me, you know,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":460.6,"endTime":465.34,"body":"because I mean, I knew all"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":465.34,"endTime":467.5,"body":"clients don't lie, because I had"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":465.34,"endTime":467.5,"body":"my own experience. And not not"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":467.5,"endTime":470.32,"body":"only my own experience, but by"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":467.5,"endTime":470.32,"body":"that time, I'd spent quite a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":470.32,"endTime":474.52,"body":"long time engaging in kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":470.32,"endTime":474.52,"body":"online peer support with other"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":474.55,"endTime":476.59,"body":"clients, especially at the time"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":474.55,"endTime":476.59,"body":"I was having my harmful"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":476.59,"endTime":481.27,"body":"experience. So I was, I felt"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":476.59,"endTime":481.27,"body":"more in the client world than I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":481.27,"endTime":486.58,"body":"did in the therapy world. So,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":481.27,"endTime":486.58,"body":"you know, I knew that it kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":486.58,"endTime":489.07,"body":"wasn't accurate. And it felt"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":486.58,"endTime":489.07,"body":"very othering. And actually in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":489.07,"endTime":494.68,"body":"those, in my experiences with"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":489.07,"endTime":494.68,"body":"other clients in online sort of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":494.98,"endTime":498.25,"body":"communities, there's also, there"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":494.98,"endTime":498.25,"body":"is a kind of othering of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":498.25,"endTime":503.65,"body":"therapists as well. So I think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":498.25,"endTime":503.65,"body":"that kind of, is part of where"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":503.65,"endTime":506.86,"body":"my discomfort has come from,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":503.65,"endTime":506.86,"body":"sometimes with 'where do I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":506.86,"endTime":510.4,"body":"belong, now'? You know, am I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":506.86,"endTime":510.4,"body":"client or am I therapist? Where,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":510.43,"endTime":513.91,"body":"where do I sit as both? And how"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":510.43,"endTime":513.91,"body":"do I make sense of that? You"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":513.91,"endTime":514.15,"body":"know?"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":514.87,"endTime":520.12,"body":"Yeah. You didn't"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":514.87,"endTime":520.12,"body":"let that first initial bit of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":520.12,"endTime":523.96,"body":"your training put you off, you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":520.12,"endTime":523.96,"body":"did carry on and, and and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":523.99,"endTime":527.35,"body":"complete your training and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":523.99,"endTime":527.35,"body":"qualify. So, what's your, what's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":527.35,"endTime":530.62,"body":"your career been like so far,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":527.35,"endTime":530.62,"body":"then since you've since you've"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":530.62,"endTime":532.84,"body":"qualified, what's that involved?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":533.47,"endTime":535.78,"body":"Well, when I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":533.47,"endTime":535.78,"body":"qualified, I was volunteering at"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":535.78,"endTime":539.68,"body":"a couple of different agencies."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":535.78,"endTime":539.68,"body":"So I did that for a little while"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":539.68,"endTime":546.1,"body":"longer, after I qualified and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":539.68,"endTime":546.1,"body":"then I was on a bit of a kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":546.1,"endTime":549.34,"body":"hunt for the right kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":546.1,"endTime":549.34,"body":"supervisor to be alongside me,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":549.7,"endTime":552.46,"body":"in private practice. That was my"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":549.7,"endTime":552.46,"body":"kind of aim. But I didn't want"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":552.46,"endTime":554.92,"body":"to do that until I felt like I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":552.46,"endTime":554.92,"body":"was confident that I had the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":554.92,"endTime":560.08,"body":"right supervisor. And so I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":554.92,"endTime":560.08,"body":"searched around and I had a few"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":560.08,"endTime":564.22,"body":"different supervisors for for a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":560.08,"endTime":564.22,"body":"while. And I found the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":564.22,"endTime":568.75,"body":"supervisor that I've still got."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":564.22,"endTime":568.75,"body":"And I felt confident at that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":568.75,"endTime":571.99,"body":"point that I had the kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":568.75,"endTime":571.99,"body":"support in place to start"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":571.99,"endTime":578.35,"body":"private practice. So I did and,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":571.99,"endTime":578.35,"body":"and first of all, just sort of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":578.35,"endTime":581.38,"body":"renting rooms and things, which"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":578.35,"endTime":581.38,"body":"was it, it was quite difficult"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":581.38,"endTime":585.04,"body":"to kind of make any money and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":581.38,"endTime":585.04,"body":"things. But I was quite"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":585.4,"endTime":590.02,"body":"fortunate, in that I managed to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":585.4,"endTime":590.02,"body":"get my own room which I'm in now"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":590.05,"endTime":593.74,"body":"you can see and obviously the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":590.05,"endTime":593.74,"body":"people listening can't, which I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":593.74,"endTime":598.93,"body":"managed to get a really good"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":593.74,"endTime":598.93,"body":"rate and then. So from then my"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":598.93,"endTime":601.03,"body":"private practice really has"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":598.93,"endTime":601.03,"body":"really been able to sort of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":601.03,"endTime":603.73,"body":"sustain me to be involved in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":601.03,"endTime":603.73,"body":"other activities in the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":603.73,"endTime":607.9,"body":"profession as well. So the other"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":603.73,"endTime":607.9,"body":"things that I've got involved"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":607.9,"endTime":610.84,"body":"with, actually, I think I was"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":607.9,"endTime":610.84,"body":"still training? Might have still"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":610.84,"endTime":614.35,"body":"been in training when I started,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":610.84,"endTime":614.35,"body":"because I was blogging as a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":614.35,"endTime":619.24,"body":"trainee, I started blogging as a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":614.35,"endTime":619.24,"body":"trainee, and then sort of paid"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":619.24,"endTime":623.11,"body":"work came up, as a result of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":619.24,"endTime":623.11,"body":"that, I started writing for"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":623.47,"endTime":627.22,"body":"counsellingtutor.com. So that's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":623.47,"endTime":627.22,"body":"Rory Lees-Oakes and Ken Kelly,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":627.61,"endTime":631.66,"body":"so I started writing for their"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":627.61,"endTime":631.66,"body":"website and for their sort of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":631.66,"endTime":634.72,"body":"subscription service that they"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":631.66,"endTime":634.72,"body":"do. It's sort of educational"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":634.72,"endTime":639.85,"body":"resources for counseling"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":634.72,"endTime":639.85,"body":"students, and, and various other"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":639.85,"endTime":643.45,"body":"bits and bobs of writing"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":639.85,"endTime":643.45,"body":"commissions for different"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":644.98,"endTime":651.94,"body":"people. And and then, from"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":644.98,"endTime":651.94,"body":"really my blogging and stuff"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":651.94,"endTime":656.89,"body":"that I was doing, I became"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":651.94,"endTime":656.89,"body":"involved with PCSR, which is the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":656.92,"endTime":662.05,"body":"'Psychotherapist and Counsellors"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":656.92,"endTime":662.05,"body":"for Social Responsibility'. And"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":662.05,"endTime":664.75,"body":"I joined their steering group."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":662.05,"endTime":664.75,"body":"So that's another thing I'm"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":664.75,"endTime":672.34,"body":"involved with. Around that, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":664.75,"endTime":672.34,"body":"... basically, for those that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":672.34,"endTime":673.9,"body":"don't know, 'Psychotherapists"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":672.34,"endTime":673.9,"body":"and Counsellors for Social"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":673.9,"endTime":679.21,"body":"Responsibility' are an"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":673.9,"endTime":679.21,"body":"organisation, erm, they hold"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":679.21,"endTime":682.3,"body":"various different events, pop up"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":679.21,"endTime":682.3,"body":"events - it's really about"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":684.76,"endTime":689.35,"body":"therapy in a social and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":684.76,"endTime":689.35,"body":"political contexts. So one of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":689.35,"endTime":693.43,"body":"the really prominent and, and I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":689.35,"endTime":693.43,"body":"think really brilliant things"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":693.43,"endTime":698.2,"body":"that PCSR do are regular"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":693.43,"endTime":698.2,"body":"'examining whiteness' events,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":698.29,"endTime":703.42,"body":"and it's obviously been put on"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":698.29,"endTime":703.42,"body":"hold because of COVID-19. But I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":703.42,"endTime":708.07,"body":"went to one last year. And I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":703.42,"endTime":708.07,"body":"just learned so much about my"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":708.07,"endTime":712.18,"body":"own positionality as a white"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":708.07,"endTime":712.18,"body":"person, and how I kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":712.3,"endTime":716.38,"body":"contribute to, you know, how I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":712.3,"endTime":716.38,"body":"contribute to whiteness, and how"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":716.38,"endTime":720.82,"body":"whiteness impacts on people of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":716.38,"endTime":720.82,"body":"colour. And it was a really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":721.69,"endTime":723.7,"body":"enlightening experience for me."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":721.69,"endTime":723.7,"body":"And it was one of my early"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":723.7,"endTime":727.06,"body":"experiences with with PCSR. And"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":723.7,"endTime":727.06,"body":"from there, I joined the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":727.06,"endTime":730.54,"body":"steering group and what I'm"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":727.06,"endTime":730.54,"body":"really hoping to do, and as a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":730.54,"endTime":734.77,"body":"northerner I'm based in Ilkley,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":730.54,"endTime":734.77,"body":"near Leeds and Bradford. And"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":734.77,"endTime":740.29,"body":"what I'm really hoping to do is"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":734.77,"endTime":740.29,"body":"bring PCSR a lot more North. So"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":740.29,"endTime":745.6,"body":"I'm hoping to next year launch a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":740.29,"endTime":745.6,"body":"kind of PCSR North with some"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":745.6,"endTime":749.32,"body":"kind of event where we can kind"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":745.6,"endTime":749.32,"body":"of hopefully, by that time meet"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":749.38,"endTime":754.24,"body":"and look at what events we'd"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":749.38,"endTime":754.24,"body":"like to see appear to do with"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":754.24,"endTime":757.48,"body":"politics and to do with kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":754.24,"endTime":757.48,"body":"social justice issues and things"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":757.51,"endTime":763.12,"body":"like that. And really see how we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":757.51,"endTime":763.12,"body":"can sort of decentralize London"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":763.12,"endTime":766.36,"body":"and have that something that we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":763.12,"endTime":766.36,"body":"can access across the country."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":766.75,"endTime":771.07,"body":"So that's the the work I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":766.75,"endTime":771.07,"body":"with with PCSR. I'm continuing"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":771.07,"endTime":774.82,"body":"to write and blog and that kind"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":771.07,"endTime":774.82,"body":"of thing, and obviously campaign"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":775.21,"endTime":779.29,"body":"- I've been campaigning against"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":775.21,"endTime":779.29,"body":"SCoPEd now for what feels like"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":779.32,"endTime":780.28,"body":"my entire life."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":783.03,"endTime":787.02,"body":"I mean, you are"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":783.03,"endTime":787.02,"body":"active campaigner and you are"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":787.44,"endTime":793.2,"body":"writing and blogging and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":787.44,"endTime":793.2,"body":"tweeting about issues in a,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":793.23,"endTime":795.93,"body":"pertinent issues in counselling"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":793.23,"endTime":795.93,"body":"and psychotherapy within the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":795.93,"endTime":800.49,"body":"profession kind of all the time."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":795.93,"endTime":800.49,"body":"And I think it's quite, it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":800.49,"endTime":803.52,"body":"fantastic that you've been able"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":800.49,"endTime":803.52,"body":"to kind of engage with so many"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":803.52,"endTime":806.61,"body":"different aspects of counselling"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":803.52,"endTime":806.61,"body":"and psychotherapy over the last"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":806.61,"endTime":810.69,"body":"few years, really. And I think"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":806.61,"endTime":810.69,"body":"it's something that I think is"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":810.69,"endTime":813.63,"body":"really admirable, but also the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":810.69,"endTime":813.63,"body":"fact that you did that from when"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":813.63,"endTime":817.29,"body":"you were a student, as well. So"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":813.63,"endTime":817.29,"body":"you kind of go through your"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":817.29,"endTime":820.05,"body":"student days, and also as you've"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":817.29,"endTime":820.05,"body":"been qualified, you kind of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":820.05,"endTime":822.84,"body":"carried that on, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":820.05,"endTime":822.84,"body":"fantastic that you do that."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":824.7,"endTime":828.24,"body":"Thank you. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":824.7,"endTime":828.24,"body":"it's really, for no other"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":828.24,"endTime":831.39,"body":"reason, than I was just really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":828.24,"endTime":831.39,"body":"interested and enthusiastic"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":831.39,"endTime":834.36,"body":"about it, you know, it was just"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":831.39,"endTime":834.36,"body":"kind of like, I really want to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":834.36,"endTime":838.89,"body":"talk about this stuff really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":834.36,"endTime":838.89,"body":"want to engage on it. Like I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":838.89,"endTime":841.95,"body":"say, I mean, from the very start"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":838.89,"endTime":841.95,"body":"of my engagement with therapy,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":841.95,"endTime":845.7,"body":"I've just been absolutely kind"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":841.95,"endTime":845.7,"body":"of in love with this profession."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":847.97,"endTime":850.52,"body":"And, and I think"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":847.97,"endTime":850.52,"body":"talk about that engagement and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":850.52,"endTime":853.13,"body":"debates. I know that that's what"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":850.52,"endTime":853.13,"body":"we do on Twitter, isn't it? We"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":853.13,"endTime":855.83,"body":"kind of debate and discuss kind"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":853.13,"endTime":855.83,"body":"of different issues in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":855.83,"endTime":857.69,"body":"counselling and psychotherapy,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":855.83,"endTime":857.69,"body":"as well as maybe having some"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":857.84,"endTime":861.68,"body":"conversations like this. And I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":857.84,"endTime":861.68,"body":"think to me, that's really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":861.68,"endTime":864.53,"body":"something that I think is really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":861.68,"endTime":864.53,"body":"important. And I think that more"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":864.53,"endTime":866.96,"body":"counsellors and therapists"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":864.53,"endTime":866.96,"body":"should get involved with those"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":866.96,"endTime":869.03,"body":"discussions, and it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":866.96,"endTime":869.03,"body":"necessarily have to be on social"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":869.03,"endTime":872.15,"body":"media. But, you know, it's in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":869.03,"endTime":872.15,"body":"some way in the profession kind"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":872.15,"endTime":874.67,"body":"of feeding back to the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":872.15,"endTime":874.67,"body":"membership bodies or the courses"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":874.67,"endTime":878.39,"body":"that are ongoing at the moment."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":874.67,"endTime":878.39,"body":"I think being engaged in that is"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":878.42,"endTime":881.72,"body":"is part of kind of being in the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":878.42,"endTime":881.72,"body":"profession and kind of owning it"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":881.72,"endTime":884.06,"body":"like we are all part of it. And"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":881.72,"endTime":884.06,"body":"we should all have a voice in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":884.06,"endTime":884.45,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":884.51,"endTime":886.31,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":884.51,"endTime":886.31,"body":"I hear a lot of people say"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":886.31,"endTime":889.07,"body":"things like, Oh, you know, only"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":886.31,"endTime":889.07,"body":"qualified X amount of years ago,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":889.07,"endTime":892.07,"body":"I don't really feel like, you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":889.07,"endTime":892.07,"body":"know, like, I've got the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":892.07,"endTime":894.77,"body":"authority to say anything about"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":892.07,"endTime":894.77,"body":"it', and I haven't got the right"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":894.77,"endTime":896.63,"body":"kind of experience or whatever."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":894.77,"endTime":896.63,"body":"But you know, that's why I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":896.63,"endTime":899.18,"body":"really want to emphasize the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":896.63,"endTime":899.18,"body":"point that you know, I was doing"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":899.18,"endTime":902.75,"body":"it as a trainee. You know, every"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":899.18,"endTime":902.75,"body":"voice is important, you know,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":902.75,"endTime":905.87,"body":"every voice brings a new"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":902.75,"endTime":905.87,"body":"perspective. And that's not just"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":905.87,"endTime":909.68,"body":"therapists voices, that's client"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":905.87,"endTime":909.68,"body":"voices. And I'm really enjoying"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":909.68,"endTime":913.97,"body":"engaging with clients and former"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":909.68,"endTime":913.97,"body":"clients on Twitter that have"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":914.12,"endTime":916.64,"body":"always got something valuable to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":914.12,"endTime":916.64,"body":"offer to like the discussions"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":916.64,"endTime":919.52,"body":"that we're having even about"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":916.64,"endTime":919.52,"body":"SCoPEd and stuff like that. And"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":919.64,"endTime":923.36,"body":"I think, you know, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":919.64,"endTime":923.36,"body":"that's something that I think is"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":923.36,"endTime":926.96,"body":"really kind of missing from"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":923.36,"endTime":926.96,"body":"SCoPEd - is the client voice. So"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":927.71,"endTime":931.7,"body":"I think I just think it's great"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":927.71,"endTime":931.7,"body":"that we're able to kind of, that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":931.7,"endTime":935.36,"body":"everyone should feel that they"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":931.7,"endTime":935.36,"body":"have a voice and, and that their"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":935.36,"endTime":938.3,"body":"opinion is of value, that the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":935.36,"endTime":938.3,"body":"profession belongs to them."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":939.59,"endTime":942.38,"body":"Because the profession belongs"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":939.59,"endTime":942.38,"body":"to every one of us, clients,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":942.44,"endTime":947.21,"body":"therapists, you know, and those"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":942.44,"endTime":947.21,"body":"people who are involved at a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":947.21,"endTime":950.09,"body":"different level as well, it's,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":947.21,"endTime":950.09,"body":"you know, they have a say, but"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":950.09,"endTime":950.72,"body":"not THE say."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":951.71,"endTime":954.02,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":951.71,"endTime":954.02,"body":"I think it's about opening that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":954.02,"endTime":956.9,"body":"up and trying to encourage as"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":954.02,"endTime":956.9,"body":"many people as possible to get"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":956.9,"endTime":959.6,"body":"involved with that. And to not"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":956.9,"endTime":959.6,"body":"just get involved, but"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":959.6,"endTime":962.21,"body":"understand the issues that are"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":959.6,"endTime":962.21,"body":"affecting the profession,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":962.21,"endTime":965.45,"body":"because they have quite a lot of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":962.21,"endTime":965.45,"body":"power, collectively, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":965.48,"endTime":972.47,"body":"what what happens going forward."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":965.48,"endTime":972.47,"body":"So yeah. Yeah. And so just"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":972.47,"endTime":976.16,"body":"changing the kind of topic"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":972.47,"endTime":976.16,"body":"slightly a little bit. And I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":976.16,"endTime":979.1,"body":"just wondering, you know, how"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":976.16,"endTime":979.1,"body":"would you define your kind of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":979.1,"endTime":982.25,"body":"therapeutic approach? And is"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":979.1,"endTime":982.25,"body":"that kind of something that has"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":982.25,"endTime":985.46,"body":"it changed over time? Or are you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":982.25,"endTime":985.46,"body":"always, kind of been at the view"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":985.46,"endTime":989.0,"body":"this is this is this is the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":985.46,"endTime":989.0,"body":"approach that you er, wanted to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":989.0,"endTime":989.36,"body":"do?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":990.14,"endTime":992.96,"body":"I guess I would"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":990.14,"endTime":992.96,"body":"describe it, essentially, as"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":992.96,"endTime":997.7,"body":"evolving. So yes, it's in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":992.96,"endTime":997.7,"body":"movement, as I'm in movement,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":997.7,"endTime":1000.97,"body":"and as we're all in movement, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":997.7,"endTime":1000.97,"body":"think my approach is necessarily"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1000.97,"endTime":1005.53,"body":"in movement. But I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1000.97,"endTime":1005.53,"body":"trained integratively. And I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1005.83,"endTime":1011.59,"body":"really come from a sort of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1005.83,"endTime":1011.59,"body":"position that, well, a person"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1011.59,"endTime":1016.15,"body":"centered philosophy, I think, at"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1011.59,"endTime":1016.15,"body":"my very core, the necessary and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1016.15,"endTime":1020.02,"body":"sufficient conditions I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1016.15,"endTime":1020.02,"body":"absolutely do believe in but I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1020.02,"endTime":1025.93,"body":"also like to, I have an interest"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1020.02,"endTime":1025.93,"body":"in other in other areas, and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1025.93,"endTime":1028.48,"body":"particularly psychodynamic"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1025.93,"endTime":1028.48,"body":"concepts around transference,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1028.48,"endTime":1032.02,"body":"countertransference. And, and a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1028.48,"endTime":1032.02,"body":"lot of this is really, because I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1033.43,"endTime":1035.98,"body":"have a great interest in the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1033.43,"endTime":1035.98,"body":"therapeutic relationship and how"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1035.98,"endTime":1039.25,"body":"that can facilitate change. And"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1035.98,"endTime":1039.25,"body":"the relationship is a kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1039.25,"endTime":1045.91,"body":"vessel for growth. And so I have"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1039.25,"endTime":1045.91,"body":"a person centred core, but you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1045.91,"endTime":1054.31,"body":"know, I do like to incorporate a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1045.91,"endTime":1054.31,"body":"lot of ideas from psychodynamic,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1054.31,"endTime":1058.84,"body":"and also existential philosophy"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1054.31,"endTime":1058.84,"body":"as well. But it's how that how"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1058.84,"endTime":1061.51,"body":"that actually looks in the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1058.84,"endTime":1061.51,"body":"therapy room is just dependent"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1061.51,"endTime":1063.52,"body":"on, you know, it's dependent on"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1061.51,"endTime":1063.52,"body":"the relationship or the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1063.52,"endTime":1064.63,"body":"encounter in the moment..."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1067.21,"endTime":1071.23,"body":"Yeah, no, that's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1067.21,"endTime":1071.23,"body":"great. And so what advice would"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1071.23,"endTime":1073.3,"body":"you give to someone, if they"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1071.23,"endTime":1073.3,"body":"were entering the profession"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1073.3,"endTime":1076.48,"body":"right now, or they were thinking"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1073.3,"endTime":1076.48,"body":"about starting their training?"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1076.69,"endTime":1079.54,"body":"Is there anything that you, any"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1076.69,"endTime":1079.54,"body":"advice that you would give that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1079.54,"endTime":1081.61,"body":"you think might be able to help"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1079.54,"endTime":1081.61,"body":"them to kind of go on that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1081.61,"endTime":1082.27,"body":"journey?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1084.22,"endTime":1087.25,"body":"The first thing"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1084.22,"endTime":1087.25,"body":"that always comes to my mind is"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1090.73,"endTime":1096.16,"body":"find the right therapist, find a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1090.73,"endTime":1096.16,"body":"good match and explore at depth,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1096.76,"endTime":1099.88,"body":"really engage with it, don't"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1096.76,"endTime":1099.88,"body":"just think, oh, I've got to do"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1099.88,"endTime":1106.24,"body":"20 hours. So I'll tick those"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1099.88,"endTime":1106.24,"body":"off. And that's that. For me,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1107.59,"endTime":1111.22,"body":"controlling the start and end of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1107.59,"endTime":1111.22,"body":"my therapy has been really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1111.22,"endTime":1114.73,"body":"important. So for me, that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1111.22,"endTime":1114.73,"body":"speaks to autonomy. So the fact"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1114.73,"endTime":1117.07,"body":"that I've, I was already in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1114.73,"endTime":1117.07,"body":"therapy, I was already in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1117.07,"endTime":1119.08,"body":"therapy when I started training,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1117.07,"endTime":1119.08,"body":"I was still in therapy when I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1119.08,"endTime":1122.44,"body":"finished training, but um, but"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1119.08,"endTime":1122.44,"body":"just being able to kind of be in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1122.44,"endTime":1124.81,"body":"control of that being in control"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1122.44,"endTime":1124.81,"body":"of who my therapist is, being in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1124.81,"endTime":1128.11,"body":"control of what I do in the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1124.81,"endTime":1128.11,"body":"room, that has been so"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1128.11,"endTime":1133.84,"body":"important. And it's been, for"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1128.11,"endTime":1133.84,"body":"me, the most kind of facilitated"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1133.84,"endTime":1140.59,"body":"learning of all. And it really,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1133.84,"endTime":1140.59,"body":"I think, it helps bring theory"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1140.59,"endTime":1146.71,"body":"to life, you know, you can sit"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1140.59,"endTime":1146.71,"body":"and learn theory, kind of, in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1146.71,"endTime":1150.37,"body":"theory, but it's not the same as"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1146.71,"endTime":1150.37,"body":"actually living it. And so if"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1150.37,"endTime":1154.42,"body":"you're, if you're learning about"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1150.37,"endTime":1154.42,"body":"theory, and you're also at the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1154.42,"endTime":1157.66,"body":"same time experiencing what"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1154.42,"endTime":1157.66,"body":"those processes are like, and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1157.99,"endTime":1162.25,"body":"what those kinds of relational"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1157.99,"endTime":1162.25,"body":"dynamics are like, and I think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1162.25,"endTime":1164.35,"body":"that's really, really helpful."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1162.25,"endTime":1164.35,"body":"So I would say just really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1164.35,"endTime":1166.99,"body":"engage with therapy, find the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1164.35,"endTime":1166.99,"body":"right therapist, don't settle,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1167.56,"endTime":1169.96,"body":"and check that you getting"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1167.56,"endTime":1169.96,"body":"something out of it. And if you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1169.96,"endTime":1171.61,"body":"don't feel - if you feel like"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1169.96,"endTime":1171.61,"body":"you're going there and talking"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1171.61,"endTime":1176.29,"body":"about the weather... you know,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1171.61,"endTime":1176.29,"body":"find the right therapist. And I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1176.29,"endTime":1178.78,"body":"suppose the other thing I would"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1176.29,"endTime":1178.78,"body":"just say, on a slightly"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1178.78,"endTime":1187.69,"body":"different note is really educate"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1178.78,"endTime":1187.69,"body":"yourself on the precarity of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1187.9,"endTime":1194.89,"body":"work at the other end of the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1187.9,"endTime":1194.89,"body":"training process, because if you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1194.89,"endTime":1199.09,"body":"are going to get yourself in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1194.89,"endTime":1199.09,"body":"lots of debt, and get out the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1199.09,"endTime":1205.75,"body":"other side and find that the job"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1199.09,"endTime":1205.75,"body":"you're expecting isn't there. It"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1205.75,"endTime":1208.0,"body":"really is important to think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1205.75,"endTime":1208.0,"body":"about whether that's the right"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1208.0,"endTime":1210.64,"body":"thing for you to do. So just"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1208.0,"endTime":1210.64,"body":"really make sure you're"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1210.64,"endTime":1212.83,"body":"informed. Not to say don't do"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1210.64,"endTime":1212.83,"body":"it, but just make sure you're"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1212.83,"endTime":1214.81,"body":"really informed about what"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1212.83,"endTime":1214.81,"body":"that'll be like and make sure"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1214.81,"endTime":1218.56,"body":"that you're not going to be"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1214.81,"endTime":1218.56,"body":"feeling let down by the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1218.56,"endTime":1220.69,"body":"profession, because I think so"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1218.56,"endTime":1220.69,"body":"many people do feel let down by"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1220.69,"endTime":1221.38,"body":"the profession."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1221.66,"endTime":1224.18,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1221.66,"endTime":1224.18,"body":"that's really good advice. And I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1224.18,"endTime":1226.52,"body":"think that there's like the two"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1224.18,"endTime":1226.52,"body":"aspects there isn't, it's like"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1226.52,"endTime":1230.27,"body":"really engaging with the process"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1226.52,"endTime":1230.27,"body":"itself, and making sure that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1230.3,"endTime":1233.33,"body":"you, you get the most from it,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1230.3,"endTime":1233.33,"body":"and you don't just do it in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1233.33,"endTime":1236.03,"body":"theory, you're actually living"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1233.33,"endTime":1236.03,"body":"and breathing it. But at the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1236.03,"endTime":1239.66,"body":"same time, you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1236.03,"endTime":1239.66,"body":"figure out where it is, as in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1239.66,"endTime":1243.35,"body":"the end goal as in a job, where"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1239.66,"endTime":1243.35,"body":"you're kind of heading to and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1243.35,"endTime":1246.11,"body":"what what the prospects are"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1243.35,"endTime":1246.11,"body":"actually the realistic prospects"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1246.11,"endTime":1249.29,"body":"at the end of all of that,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1246.11,"endTime":1249.29,"body":"before you kind of embark on"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1249.29,"endTime":1251.9,"body":"that, on that journey. And I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1249.29,"endTime":1251.9,"body":"think you're right, I think a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1251.9,"endTime":1255.14,"body":"lot of people do embark on that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1251.9,"endTime":1255.14,"body":"journey, because it's a passion,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1255.14,"endTime":1257.3,"body":"and it's something that they're"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1255.14,"endTime":1257.3,"body":"really interested in, they want"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1257.3,"endTime":1260.42,"body":"to do, and they can become"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1257.3,"endTime":1260.42,"body":"disillusioned along the way when"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1260.42,"endTime":1262.37,"body":"they get to the other side and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1260.42,"endTime":1262.37,"body":"find out absolutely that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1262.37,"endTime":1266.42,"body":"employment prospects are quite,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1262.37,"endTime":1266.42,"body":"well, are very challenging. And"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1266.45,"endTime":1272.9,"body":"once they get to the, the other"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1266.45,"endTime":1272.9,"body":"side. What other kind of rewards"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1272.9,"endTime":1276.74,"body":"or the challenges that you've"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1272.9,"endTime":1276.74,"body":"kind of had then over the course"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1276.74,"endTime":1278.69,"body":"of your career so far?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1279.77,"endTime":1283.94,"body":"Well, I think the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1279.77,"endTime":1283.94,"body":"greatest reward is the privilege"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1283.94,"endTime":1287.18,"body":"of client work. I mean, the fact"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1283.94,"endTime":1287.18,"body":"that, you know, the thing that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1287.18,"endTime":1289.13,"body":"first attracted me to this"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1287.18,"endTime":1289.13,"body":"profession was meeting people at"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1289.13,"endTime":1293.54,"body":"depth and I get to do that, you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1289.13,"endTime":1293.54,"body":"know, it's my job. And that's,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1293.6,"endTime":1297.83,"body":"you know, that's amazing. It's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1293.6,"endTime":1297.83,"body":"brilliant, I love it. And that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1297.83,"endTime":1301.16,"body":"will always remain for me, no"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1297.83,"endTime":1301.16,"body":"matter what else goes on in my"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1301.16,"endTime":1304.52,"body":"career, that will always remain,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1301.16,"endTime":1304.52,"body":"for me, the greatest privilege"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1304.52,"endTime":1308.54,"body":"and the greatest perk. And on a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1304.52,"endTime":1308.54,"body":"similar theme of connection,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1308.54,"endTime":1312.8,"body":"just the the people I've met,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1308.54,"endTime":1312.8,"body":"the other therapists that I've"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1312.8,"endTime":1315.14,"body":"met, the connections, you know,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1312.8,"endTime":1315.14,"body":"Therapists Connect has been"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1315.14,"endTime":1320.18,"body":"really, really great for kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1315.14,"endTime":1320.18,"body":"finding a home for all of that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1320.18,"endTime":1324.5,"body":"kind of, that kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1320.18,"endTime":1324.5,"body":"connection. I've met some of the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1324.5,"endTime":1331.25,"body":"best friends I've ever had"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1324.5,"endTime":1331.25,"body":"through campaign work. And it's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1331.25,"endTime":1336.38,"body":"just, it's just been fun. It's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1331.25,"endTime":1336.38,"body":"just been fantastic. I mean, it"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1336.38,"endTime":1339.11,"body":"is a community and there's so"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1336.38,"endTime":1339.11,"body":"much good there. Which is why I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1339.11,"endTime":1341.18,"body":"don't want to I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1339.11,"endTime":1341.18,"body":"give up on it. I don't want to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1341.18,"endTime":1344.06,"body":"give up on the profession,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1341.18,"endTime":1344.06,"body":"because I feel that there is a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1344.06,"endTime":1347.9,"body":"really great call there, and I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1344.06,"endTime":1347.9,"body":"love being part of that. And I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1347.9,"endTime":1349.52,"body":"feel privileged every day that I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1347.9,"endTime":1349.52,"body":"am part of that."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1352.7,"endTime":1357.89,"body":"And what about"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1352.7,"endTime":1357.89,"body":"this challenges, then? Or do you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1357.89,"endTime":1358.82,"body":"want to avoid them?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1359.81,"endTime":1364.79,"body":"Well, I mean...the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1359.81,"endTime":1364.79,"body":"challenges, I guess, I feel..."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1372.52,"endTime":1376.03,"body":"..I guess I feel there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1372.52,"endTime":1376.03,"body":"of division. As much as I'm"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1376.03,"endTime":1379.21,"body":"saying there was a lot of good"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1376.03,"endTime":1379.21,"body":"there is, and actually division"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1379.21,"endTime":1384.64,"body":"in itself doesn't have to be a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1379.21,"endTime":1384.64,"body":"problem. But I feel like there's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1385.84,"endTime":1390.04,"body":"there's a kind of unwillingness"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1385.84,"endTime":1390.04,"body":"to communicate, or difficulty"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1390.04,"endTime":1392.68,"body":"finding the right ways to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1390.04,"endTime":1392.68,"body":"communicate, because I think,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1392.71,"endTime":1396.64,"body":"what I mean, I'm particularly"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1392.71,"endTime":1396.64,"body":"thinking about SCoPEd, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1396.64,"endTime":1399.34,"body":"not just thinking about SCoPEd,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1396.64,"endTime":1399.34,"body":"I'm thinking about a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1399.34,"endTime":1403.27,"body":"kind of, and especially"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1399.34,"endTime":1403.27,"body":"political things that go on in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1403.27,"endTime":1409.0,"body":"this profession and racism has"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1403.27,"endTime":1409.0,"body":"been recently highlighted as"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1409.0,"endTime":1412.93,"body":"something that's been really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1409.0,"endTime":1412.93,"body":"problematic. And I think I think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1413.89,"endTime":1419.41,"body":"we, as a collective, have a lot"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1413.89,"endTime":1419.41,"body":"to learn about constructive"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1419.41,"endTime":1427.51,"body":"dialogue. And while, while we're"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1419.41,"endTime":1427.51,"body":"in the current situation, and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1427.51,"endTime":1430.18,"body":"things are happening and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1427.51,"endTime":1430.18,"body":"Facebook groups are getting shut"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1430.18,"endTime":1432.94,"body":"down and everything, I think we,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1430.18,"endTime":1432.94,"body":"I think we're doing ourselves a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1432.94,"endTime":1436.9,"body":"disservice. And I also think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1432.94,"endTime":1436.9,"body":"we're doing the profession a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1436.9,"endTime":1440.26,"body":"disservice. And I think we're"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1436.9,"endTime":1440.26,"body":"doing clients a disservice. I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1440.26,"endTime":1444.64,"body":"think one of the... that's like"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1440.26,"endTime":1444.64,"body":"my personal biggest challenge,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1444.67,"endTime":1449.02,"body":"is how do we, how do we kind of."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1444.67,"endTime":1449.02,"body":"how do we manage that? How do we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1449.05,"endTime":1451.42,"body":"improve that because the moment"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1449.05,"endTime":1451.42,"body":"it just doesn't feel it feels"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1451.42,"endTime":1456.07,"body":"like a kind of structural harm."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1451.42,"endTime":1456.07,"body":"And that, that I guess feels"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1456.07,"endTime":1463.42,"body":"like a personal kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1456.07,"endTime":1463.42,"body":"challenge. So I guess what, what"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1463.42,"endTime":1468.43,"body":"I was trying to say was, I think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1463.42,"endTime":1468.43,"body":"that we need as a profession to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1468.46,"endTime":1472.21,"body":"really look hard at how we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1468.46,"endTime":1472.21,"body":"manage power dynamics and how we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1472.21,"endTime":1476.53,"body":"manage how that impacts on"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1472.21,"endTime":1476.53,"body":"diversity, how that impacts on"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1476.53,"endTime":1483.43,"body":"equality of access to training"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1476.53,"endTime":1483.43,"body":"and to jobs, and to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1483.43,"endTime":1487.9,"body":"opportunities. And I, it's one"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1483.43,"endTime":1487.9,"body":"of my main kind of criticisms of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1487.9,"endTime":1496.84,"body":"SCoPEd really, is that I feel"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1487.9,"endTime":1496.84,"body":"that the TFC becomes really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1496.84,"endTime":1503.47,"body":"quite inaccessible to people"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1496.84,"endTime":1503.47,"body":"who, well, 1) that perhaps don't"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1503.47,"endTime":1506.02,"body":"have the money to undertake"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1503.47,"endTime":1506.02,"body":"additional classes and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1506.02,"endTime":1509.17,"body":"additional training and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1506.02,"endTime":1509.17,"body":"additional placement, and also"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1509.56,"endTime":1514.15,"body":"to those who don't recognize"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1509.56,"endTime":1514.15,"body":"what I think are quite Western"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1514.15,"endTime":1522.34,"body":"centric values as being"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1514.15,"endTime":1522.34,"body":"hierarchically better than other"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1522.37,"endTime":1529.36,"body":"values. And I really do think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1522.37,"endTime":1529.36,"body":"that non Western practices are"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1529.36,"endTime":1533.53,"body":"entirely missed off SCoPEd. So I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1529.36,"endTime":1533.53,"body":"think I think that's, I think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1533.53,"endTime":1536.08,"body":"that's a massive challenge for"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1533.53,"endTime":1536.08,"body":"us, not just around SCoPEd, but"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1536.11,"endTime":1539.92,"body":"generally professionally, and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1536.11,"endTime":1539.92,"body":"just around how we make sure"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1539.92,"endTime":1541.81,"body":"there is a quality of access,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1539.92,"endTime":1541.81,"body":"because at the moment, I really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1541.81,"endTime":1542.71,"body":"don't think there is,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1543.08,"endTime":1545.45,"body":"Do you think -"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1543.08,"endTime":1545.45,"body":"this is just off the top of my"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1545.45,"endTime":1550.1,"body":"head - but do you think that we"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1545.45,"endTime":1550.1,"body":"are good at talking about it,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1550.19,"endTime":1553.43,"body":"and highlighting the issue, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1550.19,"endTime":1553.43,"body":"this is what's needed. When"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1553.46,"endTime":1556.58,"body":"then, actually, a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1553.46,"endTime":1556.58,"body":"time that doesn't actually"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1556.58,"endTime":1559.88,"body":"transfer into actual action,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1556.58,"endTime":1559.88,"body":"actual tangible things that we"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1559.88,"endTime":1561.53,"body":"can actually see changed."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1564.15,"endTime":1566.04,"body":"I don't think we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1564.15,"endTime":1566.04,"body":"are that good at talking about"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1566.04,"endTime":1570.54,"body":"it. And I think that's been"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1566.04,"endTime":1570.54,"body":"highlighted by the racism that's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1571.65,"endTime":1577.65,"body":"on Facebook. I've talked a few"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1571.65,"endTime":1577.65,"body":"times about the prevalence of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1578.34,"endTime":1585.27,"body":"white, middle aged middle class"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1578.34,"endTime":1585.27,"body":"men in positions of power, how"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1585.3,"endTime":1587.25,"body":"prevalent they are, in our"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1585.3,"endTime":1587.25,"body":"reading lists, how prevalent"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1587.25,"endTime":1591.09,"body":"they are in professorships in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1587.25,"endTime":1591.09,"body":"this profession, and in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1591.09,"endTime":1595.98,"body":"academia, and also kind of in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1591.09,"endTime":1595.98,"body":"the highest paid roles in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1596.01,"endTime":1598.23,"body":"professional bodies and things"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1596.01,"endTime":1598.23,"body":"like that. And I and I and I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1598.23,"endTime":1603.39,"body":"talked about about that and had"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1598.23,"endTime":1603.39,"body":"some real pushback. And so I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1603.39,"endTime":1605.7,"body":"don't think we're particularly"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1603.39,"endTime":1605.7,"body":"good at talking about it, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1605.7,"endTime":1609.57,"body":"think we're quite good at virtue"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1605.7,"endTime":1609.57,"body":"signaling. And, you know, and I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1610.08,"endTime":1612.27,"body":"think...you know..."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1614.1,"endTime":1617.1,"body":"especially like, when something"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1614.1,"endTime":1617.1,"body":"like Black Lives Matter comes"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1617.1,"endTime":1623.97,"body":"along, suddenly, we have a lot"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1617.1,"endTime":1623.97,"body":"of very vocal organisations and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1624.0,"endTime":1627.18,"body":"individuals, and then it kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1624.0,"endTime":1627.18,"body":"goes out in the news, and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1627.18,"endTime":1630.12,"body":"everyone starts thinking about"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1627.18,"endTime":1630.12,"body":"something else. And but I mean,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1630.12,"endTime":1632.01,"body":"that's, that, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1630.12,"endTime":1632.01,"body":"part of the human condition. I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1632.01,"endTime":1634.41,"body":"don't think that's unique to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1632.01,"endTime":1634.41,"body":"therapists and therapy, I think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1634.41,"endTime":1638.19,"body":"that's kind of some, but it is"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1634.41,"endTime":1638.19,"body":"something that we need to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1638.19,"endTime":1641.31,"body":"tackle, because I think it"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1638.19,"endTime":1641.31,"body":"filters, my view is that it"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1641.31,"endTime":1646.05,"body":"filters down ... to the therapy"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1641.31,"endTime":1646.05,"body":"room. And if we're not really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1646.05,"endTime":1648.99,"body":"properly addressing our biases,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1646.05,"endTime":1648.99,"body":"and we're not really properly,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1649.56,"endTime":1655.08,"body":"you know, striving to be anti"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1649.56,"endTime":1655.08,"body":"racist, and you know, and not,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1655.35,"endTime":1662.07,"body":"not just race, but all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1655.35,"endTime":1662.07,"body":"marginalised groups that need"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1662.07,"endTime":1667.26,"body":"our support, and need, need to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1662.07,"endTime":1667.26,"body":"be kind of given equality of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1667.26,"endTime":1671.58,"body":"access to our profession, at all"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1667.26,"endTime":1671.58,"body":"levels, including as clients."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1672.18,"endTime":1675.39,"body":"And yeah, and I don't think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1672.18,"endTime":1675.39,"body":"we're good at action either. I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1675.39,"endTime":1677.13,"body":"don't think we're good at"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1675.39,"endTime":1677.13,"body":"action. I also don't think we're"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1677.31,"endTime":1678.36,"body":"good at talking about it."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1679.59,"endTime":1682.44,"body":"Talking about"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1679.59,"endTime":1682.44,"body":"the kind of power dynamics"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1682.56,"endTime":1686.19,"body":"within therapy and within"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1682.56,"endTime":1686.19,"body":"therapy community, one of the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1686.19,"endTime":1690.39,"body":"things that you I know that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1686.19,"endTime":1690.39,"body":"you've completed research on, is"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1690.39,"endTime":1694.68,"body":"harm in therapy. And and I was"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1690.39,"endTime":1694.68,"body":"just wondering, would, could you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1694.68,"endTime":1697.08,"body":"tell the listeners a little bit"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1694.68,"endTime":1697.08,"body":"about what that involves, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1697.08,"endTime":1699.51,"body":"what you kind of found from the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1697.08,"endTime":1699.51,"body":"research?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1700.11,"endTime":1706.62,"body":"So yeah, this was"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1700.11,"endTime":1706.62,"body":"my master's research. And I, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1706.62,"endTime":1711.99,"body":"interviewed six therapists who"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1706.62,"endTime":1711.99,"body":"had worked with clients that had"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1711.99,"endTime":1716.31,"body":"been harmed in therapy"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1711.99,"endTime":1716.31,"body":"previously. And really, the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1716.31,"endTime":1722.04,"body":"purpose of the research was to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1716.31,"endTime":1722.04,"body":"look at kind of what that was"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1722.04,"endTime":1725.19,"body":"like for the therapist, and, you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1722.04,"endTime":1725.19,"body":"know, what came up for the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1725.19,"endTime":1730.92,"body":"therapist? And how that might"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1725.19,"endTime":1730.92,"body":"inform us to think about how we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1730.92,"endTime":1735.66,"body":"work with clients who have been"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1730.92,"endTime":1735.66,"body":"harmed in therapy. And, yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1735.66,"endTime":1738.45,"body":"did come from the fact that I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1735.66,"endTime":1738.45,"body":"had a harmful experience of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1738.78,"endTime":1742.02,"body":"therapy, that I had reengaged"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1738.78,"endTime":1742.02,"body":"with therapy, and it felt"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1742.95,"endTime":1747.27,"body":"important. When I when I when"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1742.95,"endTime":1747.27,"body":"that happened, I actually looked"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1747.27,"endTime":1750.0,"body":"for literature, again, that was"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1747.27,"endTime":1750.0,"body":"before I trained, I looked for"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1750.0,"endTime":1752.37,"body":"literature around working with"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1750.0,"endTime":1752.37,"body":"clients that had been harmed"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1752.37,"endTime":1756.54,"body":"therapy that I wanted to give my"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1752.37,"endTime":1756.54,"body":"therapist and I found there"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1756.54,"endTime":1759.39,"body":"wasn't any. And I was quite"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1756.54,"endTime":1759.39,"body":"surprised, because I knew that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1759.39,"endTime":1761.97,"body":"harm in therapy was quite"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1759.39,"endTime":1761.97,"body":"prevalent, because I've been"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1761.97,"endTime":1764.64,"body":"engaged on these online"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1761.97,"endTime":1764.64,"body":"communities where lots of people"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1764.64,"endTime":1766.68,"body":"have been talking about their"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1764.64,"endTime":1766.68,"body":"different experiences of having"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1766.68,"endTime":1770.55,"body":"been harmed in therapy. So it"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1766.68,"endTime":1770.55,"body":"seemed absolute madness to be"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1770.61,"endTime":1776.43,"body":"that there was nothing to be"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1770.61,"endTime":1776.43,"body":"found, to help therapists. And"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1776.43,"endTime":1778.53,"body":"so I thought, well, let's find"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1776.43,"endTime":1778.53,"body":"out what it's like for"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1778.53,"endTime":1782.13,"body":"therapists who, who are working"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1778.53,"endTime":1782.13,"body":"with clients that are, that are"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1782.13,"endTime":1788.34,"body":"coming with this as a presenting"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1782.13,"endTime":1788.34,"body":"issue. And what I found was"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1791.25,"endTime":1794.79,"body":"that, I mean, there was a few"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1791.25,"endTime":1794.79,"body":"things that kind of emerged and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1795.36,"endTime":1798.63,"body":"one was about kind of questions"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1795.36,"endTime":1798.63,"body":"that were raised for the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1798.63,"endTime":1800.79,"body":"therapist, not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1798.63,"endTime":1800.79,"body":"questions that they would"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1801.6,"endTime":1804.18,"body":"articulate to the client, but"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1801.6,"endTime":1804.18,"body":"questions that emerged for the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1804.18,"endTime":1808.08,"body":"therapist, such as, was it harm?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1804.18,"endTime":1808.08,"body":"You know. And how do I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1808.08,"endTime":1813.6,"body":"understand what happened? You"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1808.08,"endTime":1813.6,"body":"know? Do I believe what the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1813.6,"endTime":1817.8,"body":"clients telling me? And I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1813.6,"endTime":1817.8,"body":"thought these questions were"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1817.8,"endTime":1821.61,"body":"very interesting, because I'm"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1817.8,"endTime":1821.61,"body":"not sure they're such prominent"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1821.73,"endTime":1826.32,"body":"kind of questions. And in the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1821.73,"endTime":1826.32,"body":"context of the client bringing"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1826.44,"endTime":1831.06,"body":"another kind of relational harm."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1826.44,"endTime":1831.06,"body":"So maybe an abusive relationship"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1831.06,"endTime":1833.34,"body":"or whatever I don't I'm not, I'm"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1831.06,"endTime":1833.34,"body":"not sure that a client, I mean a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1833.34,"endTime":1835.59,"body":"therapist will be so likely to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1833.34,"endTime":1835.59,"body":"have those questions at the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1835.59,"endTime":1838.74,"body":"bottom of their mind. So I just"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1835.59,"endTime":1838.74,"body":"I just think it's curious from"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1838.74,"endTime":1841.17,"body":"that perspective, and there's no"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1838.74,"endTime":1841.17,"body":"judgment there from me, but what"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1841.17,"endTime":1845.55,"body":"I think it does do is it kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1841.17,"endTime":1845.55,"body":"raises questions for me about"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1845.55,"endTime":1849.36,"body":"like, how do we conceptualise"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1845.55,"endTime":1849.36,"body":"harm in therapy, as therapists?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1849.39,"endTime":1852.81,"body":"You know, do we conceptualise it"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1849.39,"endTime":1852.81,"body":"as something different from an"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1852.81,"endTime":1855.93,"body":"abusive relationship? Or, you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1852.81,"endTime":1855.93,"body":"know, abusive parents or"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1855.93,"endTime":1859.59,"body":"anything like that? And, and,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1855.93,"endTime":1859.59,"body":"and how does that, how does that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1859.59,"endTime":1865.2,"body":"manifest in the way we work with"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1859.59,"endTime":1865.2,"body":"clients? Other things that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1865.2,"endTime":1867.63,"body":"really came up were strong"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1865.2,"endTime":1867.63,"body":"feelings towards a previous"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1867.63,"endTime":1874.77,"body":"therapist. So especially things"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1867.63,"endTime":1874.77,"body":"like anger, and, and which I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1874.77,"endTime":1878.76,"body":"think is, you know, quite"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1874.77,"endTime":1878.76,"body":"understandable, as well as"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1879.84,"endTime":1883.35,"body":"comparison. So am I a better"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1879.84,"endTime":1883.35,"body":"therapist than that therapist"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1883.35,"endTime":1886.68,"body":"was, will I do harm, and kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1883.35,"endTime":1886.68,"body":"questions around that as well."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1886.71,"endTime":1888.69,"body":"So those were the kinds of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1886.71,"endTime":1888.69,"body":"things that were coming up."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1890.01,"endTime":1891.93,"body":"It sounds really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1890.01,"endTime":1891.93,"body":"interesting research. And it"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1891.93,"endTime":1894.63,"body":"reminds me just a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1891.93,"endTime":1894.63,"body":"my research that we've talked"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1894.63,"endTime":1899.79,"body":"about this before, in terms of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1894.63,"endTime":1899.79,"body":"boundaries in therapy. And I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1899.79,"endTime":1902.52,"body":"explored that with therapists"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1899.79,"endTime":1902.52,"body":"and how quite a lot of the time"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1902.52,"endTime":1904.56,"body":"that the boundary, when they"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1902.52,"endTime":1904.56,"body":"were faced with an issue in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1904.56,"endTime":1906.81,"body":"therapy, that the boundaries"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1904.56,"endTime":1906.81,"body":"that they put in place, were"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1907.05,"endTime":1910.98,"body":"then put in to kind of protect"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1907.05,"endTime":1910.98,"body":"themselves, therapists, not"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1910.98,"endTime":1915.45,"body":"necessarily protect the client."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1910.98,"endTime":1915.45,"body":"And it just made me think about"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1915.45,"endTime":1917.73,"body":"kind of those things that you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1915.45,"endTime":1917.73,"body":"were talking, where there in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1917.73,"endTime":1920.13,"body":"terms of that kind of almost"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1917.73,"endTime":1920.13,"body":"that, well, something's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1920.13,"endTime":1922.62,"body":"happening in the therapy room,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1920.13,"endTime":1922.62,"body":"and it's about another"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1922.62,"endTime":1925.71,"body":"therapist, and all of a sudden,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1922.62,"endTime":1925.71,"body":"the reflection then becomes on"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1925.71,"endTime":1928.86,"body":"the therapist who is there"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1925.71,"endTime":1928.86,"body":"themselves. Well, how am I in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1928.86,"endTime":1931.98,"body":"therapy? Do I harm? Am I better"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1928.86,"endTime":1931.98,"body":"than that as a therapist, the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1931.98,"endTime":1936.12,"body":"reflection is on themselves, not"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1931.98,"endTime":1936.12,"body":"necessarily - I mean, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1936.12,"endTime":1938.82,"body":"the reflection is on the client,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1936.12,"endTime":1938.82,"body":"but not fully on the client,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1938.85,"endTime":1943.02,"body":"there is an aspect of something"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1938.85,"endTime":1943.02,"body":"else going on for the therapist"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":1943.02,"endTime":1943.83,"body":"in that moment."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1944.23,"endTime":1946.15,"body":"Yeah, and what"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1944.23,"endTime":1946.15,"body":"this what this kind of brought"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1946.15,"endTime":1950.62,"body":"up for me was the idea that we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1946.15,"endTime":1950.62,"body":"don't really think about our own"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1950.62,"endTime":1956.26,"body":"relationship with harm. Most of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1950.62,"endTime":1956.26,"body":"us will have experienced harmful"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1956.26,"endTime":1959.53,"body":"relationships, at some point in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1956.26,"endTime":1959.53,"body":"our life, whether, you know,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1959.53,"endTime":1962.02,"body":"some of us might have"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1959.53,"endTime":1962.02,"body":"experienced harmful therapeutic"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1962.02,"endTime":1965.5,"body":"relationships, I know that a lot"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1962.02,"endTime":1965.5,"body":"of therapists got in contact"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1965.5,"endTime":1968.83,"body":"with me and said, I had harmful"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1965.5,"endTime":1968.83,"body":"therapeutic experiences. So it"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1968.83,"endTime":1973.96,"body":"does happen. And actually,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1968.83,"endTime":1973.96,"body":"therapists and trainee"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1973.96,"endTime":1979.75,"body":"therapists, disproportionately"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1973.96,"endTime":1979.75,"body":"feature in complaints against"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1979.75,"endTime":1985.15,"body":"therapists as as victims of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1979.75,"endTime":1985.15,"body":"harmful therapy. So there is"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1985.15,"endTime":1987.37,"body":"something there about the fact"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1985.15,"endTime":1987.37,"body":"that we do experience these"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1987.37,"endTime":1991.48,"body":"things. Do we reflect on what"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1987.37,"endTime":1991.48,"body":"that means for us? When you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1991.48,"endTime":1993.61,"body":"know, when a client comes in the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1991.48,"endTime":1993.61,"body":"therapy room has also had a"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1993.61,"endTime":1997.63,"body":"harmful experience? Do we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1993.61,"endTime":1997.63,"body":"identify with the therapist? Or"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1997.63,"endTime":2001.08,"body":"do we identify with the client?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":1997.63,"endTime":2001.08,"body":"And how does that impact on the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2001.08,"endTime":2004.35,"body":"way we are in the room? And all"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2001.08,"endTime":2004.35,"body":"those things, I think, I don't"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2004.35,"endTime":2006.3,"body":"think there's any answers for"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2004.35,"endTime":2006.3,"body":"because I don't think there's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2006.3,"endTime":2009.15,"body":"any one way that people are"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2006.3,"endTime":2009.15,"body":"going to react. But I do think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2009.15,"endTime":2011.01,"body":"that they're really important"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2009.15,"endTime":2011.01,"body":"questions to be asking"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2011.01,"endTime":2015.39,"body":"ourselves, in terms of how do we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2011.01,"endTime":2015.39,"body":"feel about working with clients"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2015.39,"endTime":2018.84,"body":"that come with different stories"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2015.39,"endTime":2018.84,"body":"that we feel... One thing that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2018.84,"endTime":2025.71,"body":"came up, was kind of anger on"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2018.84,"endTime":2025.71,"body":"behalf of the profession. And I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2025.71,"endTime":2029.43,"body":"know, I've seen this on Twitter;"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2025.71,"endTime":2029.43,"body":"I talked a little bit on Twitter"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2029.43,"endTime":2033.0,"body":"about my harmful experience. And"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2029.43,"endTime":2033.0,"body":"one thing in particular, that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2033.06,"endTime":2036.87,"body":"that my therapist did, which was"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2033.06,"endTime":2036.87,"body":"quite overtly unethical. And,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2036.96,"endTime":2040.95,"body":"and a lot of the response from"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2036.96,"endTime":2040.95,"body":"therapists was about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2042.93,"endTime":2044.76,"body":"you know, how dare you do this"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2042.93,"endTime":2044.76,"body":"to the profession kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2044.76,"endTime":2049.08,"body":"thing... And so it's like, we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2044.76,"endTime":2049.08,"body":"kind of also have a relationship"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2049.08,"endTime":2051.33,"body":"with the profession, so we have"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2049.08,"endTime":2051.33,"body":"a relationship with the client,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2051.33,"endTime":2053.67,"body":"but we also have a relationship"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2051.33,"endTime":2053.67,"body":"with the therapist and with the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2053.67,"endTime":2056.79,"body":"profession. And it's like"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2053.67,"endTime":2056.79,"body":"managing how all those"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2056.79,"endTime":2058.35,"body":"relationships fit together, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2056.79,"endTime":2058.35,"body":"think."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2059.83,"endTime":2061.63,"body":"And I was just"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2059.83,"endTime":2061.63,"body":"thinking in all of that our"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2061.63,"endTime":2065.65,"body":"ability to be able to reflect as"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2061.63,"endTime":2065.65,"body":"therapists when we may have done"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2065.65,"endTime":2069.46,"body":"something that was harmful to a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2065.65,"endTime":2069.46,"body":"client, whether that was"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2070.24,"endTime":2074.29,"body":"unintentional, but but being"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2070.24,"endTime":2074.29,"body":"able to kind of reflect on that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2074.29,"endTime":2077.95,"body":"and how we, how we are as"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2074.29,"endTime":2077.95,"body":"therapists rather than just"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2077.95,"endTime":2081.01,"body":"looking at it as something that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2077.95,"endTime":2081.01,"body":"other people do."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2081.0,"endTime":2082.89,"body":"Yeah, yeah. I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2081.0,"endTime":2082.89,"body":"mean, I think it's multi"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2082.89,"endTime":2088.23,"body":"layered, isn't it? Because I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2082.89,"endTime":2088.23,"body":"think I think a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2088.23,"endTime":2093.78,"body":"fear complaints. Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2088.23,"endTime":2093.78,"body":"think that is, I think, quite"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2093.78,"endTime":2097.71,"body":"often at the forefront of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2093.78,"endTime":2097.71,"body":"people's mind,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2097.95,"endTime":2102.12,"body":"disproportionately so, in a way"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2097.95,"endTime":2102.12,"body":"that can kind of can I don't"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2102.12,"endTime":2107.04,"body":"create a defensiveness, which is"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2102.12,"endTime":2107.04,"body":"actually harmful. And it's the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2107.04,"endTime":2109.02,"body":"same I think we've talked about"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2107.04,"endTime":2109.02,"body":"this a little bit before about"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2109.02,"endTime":2115.02,"body":"boundaries, where, you know,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2109.02,"endTime":2115.02,"body":"somebody, a client might, you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2115.02,"endTime":2120.06,"body":"know, disclose something to do"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2115.02,"endTime":2120.06,"body":"without it, I don't know, their"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2120.06,"endTime":2122.64,"body":"feelings towards the therapist"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2120.06,"endTime":2122.64,"body":"and the therapist as a result"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2122.67,"endTime":2126.18,"body":"might shift the boundary. They"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2122.67,"endTime":2126.18,"body":"might think, Oh, well, we can no"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2126.18,"endTime":2129.03,"body":"longer hug or something, or"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2126.18,"endTime":2129.03,"body":"whatever. And actually, those"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2129.03,"endTime":2133.35,"body":"boundaries can be received as"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2129.03,"endTime":2133.35,"body":"punitive. And, and while the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2134.04,"endTime":2137.01,"body":"initial motivation for removing"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2134.04,"endTime":2137.01,"body":"the hook might be, oh, I don't"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2137.01,"endTime":2139.65,"body":"want to do anything that could"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2137.01,"endTime":2139.65,"body":"be perceived as harmful or that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2139.65,"endTime":2142.98,"body":"can be perceived as unethical."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2139.65,"endTime":2142.98,"body":"The harmful action is in the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2143.37,"endTime":2146.85,"body":"remova, is in the shifting of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2143.37,"endTime":2146.85,"body":"the boundary. And I think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2146.85,"endTime":2150.45,"body":"that's, that's very common, in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2146.85,"endTime":2150.45,"body":"my experience of speaking with"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2150.45,"endTime":2153.24,"body":"people that have been harmed in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2150.45,"endTime":2153.24,"body":"therapy, that actually shifting"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2153.24,"endTime":2155.7,"body":"boundaries as a result of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2153.24,"endTime":2155.7,"body":"whatever's happened in the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2155.7,"endTime":2162.45,"body":"therapy, can often be well, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2155.7,"endTime":2162.45,"body":"think in the here and now sense,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2162.45,"endTime":2164.91,"body":"it can be received as punitive,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2162.45,"endTime":2164.91,"body":"and that can be really shaming"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2164.91,"endTime":2168.36,"body":"and really damaging. And I think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2164.91,"endTime":2168.36,"body":"also, it can sometimes be"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2168.36,"endTime":2173.4,"body":"reminiscent of what may have"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2168.36,"endTime":2173.4,"body":"happened to somebody as a child"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2173.55,"endTime":2176.22,"body":"or anything and then so that can"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2173.55,"endTime":2176.22,"body":"be kind of, in that sense,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2176.22,"endTime":2179.97,"body":"possibly can be traumatising. So"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2176.22,"endTime":2179.97,"body":"I think it's really important to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2179.97,"endTime":2182.28,"body":"be thinking about how we respond"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2179.97,"endTime":2182.28,"body":"to those kind of boundaries."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2182.87,"endTime":2185.18,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2182.87,"endTime":2185.18,"body":"absolutely. And that evolving"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2185.21,"endTime":2188.75,"body":"thing where we're looking at,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2185.21,"endTime":2188.75,"body":"okay, this is maybe why I'm"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2188.75,"endTime":2190.67,"body":"thinking I need to put that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2188.75,"endTime":2190.67,"body":"boundary in place as a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2190.91,"endTime":2193.79,"body":"therapist. However, it's not"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2190.91,"endTime":2193.79,"body":"just about that, there is always"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2193.79,"endTime":2198.2,"body":"an impact on the client, and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2193.79,"endTime":2198.2,"body":"actually being open to being"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2198.2,"endTime":2201.5,"body":"able to discuss with the client,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2198.2,"endTime":2201.5,"body":"what that was like for them, how"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2201.5,"endTime":2205.55,"body":"that felt, their response to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2201.5,"endTime":2205.55,"body":"that. So that it's not just the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2205.64,"endTime":2208.76,"body":"therapist with the power and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2205.64,"endTime":2208.76,"body":"control to put this in place,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2208.76,"endTime":2211.37,"body":"but actually, that there is at"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2208.76,"endTime":2211.37,"body":"least some dialogue around that,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2211.37,"endTime":2213.95,"body":"particularly if it's changing"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2211.37,"endTime":2213.95,"body":"from something that has gone"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2213.95,"endTime":2214.61,"body":"before."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2215.77,"endTime":2220.87,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2215.77,"endTime":2220.87,"body":"right. And one thing that my"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2220.87,"endTime":2227.38,"body":"therapist has kind of modeled"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2220.87,"endTime":2227.38,"body":"really well, is actually being"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2227.38,"endTime":2232.48,"body":"open about uncertainty. So, you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2227.38,"endTime":2232.48,"body":"know, he might say, to me, I've"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2232.48,"endTime":2234.91,"body":"got a dilemma about this, I'm"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2232.48,"endTime":2234.91,"body":"not even quite sure what to do"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2234.91,"endTime":2238.54,"body":"about this. And then because of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2234.91,"endTime":2238.54,"body":"the mutual, the mutuality of the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2238.54,"endTime":2242.14,"body":"way we work, we can kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2238.54,"endTime":2242.14,"body":"discuss that together and think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2242.14,"endTime":2245.26,"body":"about the impact on me and how I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2242.14,"endTime":2245.26,"body":"will receive that. I mean, that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2245.26,"endTime":2248.8,"body":"won't always be an appropriate"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2245.26,"endTime":2248.8,"body":"thing to do. But where it is,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2248.83,"endTime":2253.36,"body":"and where you can be kind of as"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2248.83,"endTime":2253.36,"body":"mutual as possible, in the way"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2253.36,"endTime":2257.71,"body":"that you discuss boundaries and,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2253.36,"endTime":2257.71,"body":"and, and decide boundaries, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2257.71,"endTime":2260.26,"body":"think it's really important to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2257.71,"endTime":2260.26,"body":"do that, because it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2261.4,"endTime":2263.08,"body":"it's, it's respectful."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2264.13,"endTime":2267.97,"body":"And they are"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2264.13,"endTime":2267.97,"body":"mutually agreed, and discussed"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2268.06,"endTime":2272.05,"body":"and created between two people"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2268.06,"endTime":2272.05,"body":"and not just something that is"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2272.08,"endTime":2274.84,"body":"implemented by the therapist."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2274.93,"endTime":2276.73,"body":"Absolutely. That's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2274.93,"endTime":2276.73,"body":"what, that's what boundaries are"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2276.76,"endTime":2281.92,"body":"- boundaries in a relationship"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2276.76,"endTime":2281.92,"body":"are between two people. And the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2281.92,"endTime":2283.3,"body":"client has a right to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2281.92,"endTime":2283.3,"body":"boundaries."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2283.75,"endTime":2287.11,"body":"Mmm. Yeah. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2283.75,"endTime":2287.11,"body":"It's a two way process."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2288.25,"endTime":2293.35,"body":"Absolutely. It's really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2288.25,"endTime":2293.35,"body":"interesting, I'd definitely like"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2293.35,"endTime":2296.14,"body":"to read more about your research"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2293.35,"endTime":2296.14,"body":"because I think it sounds"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2296.14,"endTime":2301.84,"body":"absolutely fascinating. So, you"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2296.14,"endTime":2301.84,"body":"are an avid writer, and you've"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2301.84,"endTime":2305.32,"body":"written a lot about therapy,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2301.84,"endTime":2305.32,"body":"particularly blogging, and I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2305.32,"endTime":2307.69,"body":"know you've had some things"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2305.32,"endTime":2307.69,"body":"published as well. So just"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2307.69,"endTime":2310.87,"body":"wondering, what what inspires"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2307.69,"endTime":2310.87,"body":"you to, to write what is it that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2310.87,"endTime":2311.98,"body":"kind of motivates you?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2312.8,"endTime":2315.32,"body":"Well, and I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2312.8,"endTime":2315.32,"body":"started writing poetry very"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2315.32,"endTime":2319.88,"body":"young. And, well, it was my, you"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2315.32,"endTime":2319.88,"body":"know, my parents, I guess that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2319.88,"endTime":2323.75,"body":"kind of introduced me to poetry"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2319.88,"endTime":2323.75,"body":"and my mum wrote poetry. And,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2323.93,"endTime":2328.88,"body":"and I stopped quite abruptly"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2323.93,"endTime":2328.88,"body":"when I was 17, writing poetry,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2328.88,"endTime":2333.11,"body":"but I did I went to uni and I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2328.88,"endTime":2333.11,"body":"did a creative writing degree."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2334.16,"endTime":2340.49,"body":"And I didn't enjoy uni very"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2334.16,"endTime":2340.49,"body":"much. And I felt quite outside"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2340.49,"endTime":2345.62,"body":"of it and outside of kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2340.49,"endTime":2345.62,"body":"the, the kind of culture of what"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2345.62,"endTime":2348.08,"body":"was going on at uni and I didn't"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2345.62,"endTime":2348.08,"body":"really engage with it that well,"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2348.08,"endTime":2352.01,"body":"1 but I"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2348.08,"endTime":2352.01,"body":"didn't really I didn't really"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2352.01,"endTime":2354.44,"body":"enjoy anything that I wrote at"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2352.01,"endTime":2354.44,"body":"Uni, so had kind of fallen out"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2354.44,"endTime":2358.88,"body":"of love with writing at that"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2354.44,"endTime":2358.88,"body":"time. I applied for a couple of"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2358.94,"endTime":2362.96,"body":"copywriting jobs, I didn't get"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2358.94,"endTime":2362.96,"body":"them. And I just kind of"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2362.96,"endTime":2366.5,"body":"completely gave up on writing I"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2362.96,"endTime":2366.5,"body":"think. And I didn't write"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2366.5,"endTime":2372.92,"body":"anything then for most of my 20s"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2366.5,"endTime":2372.92,"body":"and then when my mum died, and I"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2372.92,"endTime":2376.1,"body":"went back to uni, one thing that"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2372.92,"endTime":2376.1,"body":"my first therapist got right was"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2376.1,"endTime":2385.19,"body":"that he encouraged me to write a"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2376.1,"endTime":2385.19,"body":"poem. And which was good for me"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2385.19,"endTime":2388.7,"body":"because it was a way to kind of"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2385.19,"endTime":2388.7,"body":"reconnect with something that"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2388.7,"endTime":2391.52,"body":"had been quite important to me"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2388.7,"endTime":2391.52,"body":"with my mum because my mum was"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2391.52,"endTime":2400.01,"body":"also an excellent poet. And so I"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2391.52,"endTime":2400.01,"body":"wrote and then it just kind of"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2400.01,"endTime":2404.36,"body":"kicked off. It really kicked off"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2400.01,"endTime":2404.36,"body":"the kind of thing for me for the"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2404.36,"endTime":2407.18,"body":"next year where I was writing"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2404.36,"endTime":2407.18,"body":"nearly every day and I joined an"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2407.18,"endTime":2410.12,"body":"online kind of poetry community."},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2407.18,"endTime":2410.12,"body":"And I was I was writing and"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2410.12,"endTime":2414.2,"body":"writing, and making kind of"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2410.12,"endTime":2414.2,"body":"friends all over the world who"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2414.2,"endTime":2416.42,"body":"were interested in poetry. And"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2414.2,"endTime":2416.42,"body":"so I really just got back into"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2416.42,"endTime":2420.98,"body":"writing. And then when I"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2416.42,"endTime":2420.98,"body":"trained, I was leaving, because"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2420.98,"endTime":2423.77,"body":"we had quite big lectures, there"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2420.98,"endTime":2423.77,"body":"wasn't much time for"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2423.8,"endTime":2426.74,"body":"conversation about a lot of the"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2423.8,"endTime":2426.74,"body":"theory and different things that"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2426.74,"endTime":2431.12,"body":"we were talking about. And I was"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2426.74,"endTime":2431.12,"body":"coming home feeling unfulfilled,"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2431.12,"endTime":2435.56,"body":"I was feeling like, I've got"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2431.12,"endTime":2435.56,"body":"more to say on this. So I"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2435.56,"endTime":2437.78,"body":"thought, you know, I've never"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2435.56,"endTime":2437.78,"body":"blogged before, but I thought,"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2437.78,"endTime":2440.72,"body":"I'll just set up a blog and"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2437.78,"endTime":2440.72,"body":"write down the things I'm"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2440.72,"endTime":2442.94,"body":"thinking that I didn't get"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2440.72,"endTime":2442.94,"body":"chance to say in the lecture"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2442.94,"endTime":2449.6,"body":"hall. And I did that and I"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2442.94,"endTime":2449.6,"body":"joined Facebook and I met and"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2450.08,"endTime":2455.84,"body":"Sas, from online events. And she"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2450.08,"endTime":2455.84,"body":"said, she said, you should, you"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2455.84,"endTime":2460.94,"body":"should join Twitter. And, and,"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2455.84,"endTime":2460.94,"body":"like, advertise your blog on"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2460.94,"endTime":2464.03,"body":"there. Otherwise, no one will"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2460.94,"endTime":2464.03,"body":"know that it's there, you know,"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2464.03,"endTime":2470.33,"body":"and she says, it's a good way to"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2464.03,"endTime":2470.33,"body":"so I did. And, and it all kind"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2470.33,"endTime":2473.42,"body":"of started there really with the"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2470.33,"endTime":2473.42,"body":"blogging and, and I just really"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2473.42,"endTime":2476.18,"body":"loved it. And I loved the fact"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2473.42,"endTime":2476.18,"body":"that people read it. And were"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2476.18,"endTime":2479.36,"body":"interested and that it resonated"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2476.18,"endTime":2479.36,"body":"with people, especially some of"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2479.36,"endTime":2482.45,"body":"the stuff I was writing about"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2479.36,"endTime":2482.45,"body":"harm in therapy. And some of"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2482.45,"endTime":2486.2,"body":"that early stuff that I wrote"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2482.45,"endTime":2486.2,"body":"about, you know, boundaries and"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2486.23,"endTime":2489.44,"body":"transference and things like"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2486.23,"endTime":2489.44,"body":"that erotic transference still"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2489.44,"endTime":2494.45,"body":"get the most hits for me, even"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2489.44,"endTime":2494.45,"body":"though most of my blog at the"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2494.45,"endTime":2499.01,"body":"moment is kind of occupied with"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2494.45,"endTime":2499.01,"body":"SCoPEd.. Still, people are"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2499.01,"endTime":2501.71,"body":"really interested in those in"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2499.01,"endTime":2501.71,"body":"those conversations about"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2503.39,"endTime":2506.0,"body":"difficult things in therapy,"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2503.39,"endTime":2506.0,"body":"things like that. So I've just"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2506.0,"endTime":2507.89,"body":"really loved the connections"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2506.0,"endTime":2507.89,"body":"that I've been able to make"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2507.89,"endTime":2512.84,"body":"through that. And then, like I"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2507.89,"endTime":2512.84,"body":"say, it's, it has led to some"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2513.2,"endTime":2516.89,"body":"sort of work opportunities as"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2513.2,"endTime":2516.89,"body":"well. And obviously, other"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2516.89,"endTime":2521.45,"body":"things that I'm doing now. So"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2516.89,"endTime":2521.45,"body":"it's been, it's been a really"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2521.54,"endTime":2523.88,"body":"huge journey for me, but it's"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2521.54,"endTime":2523.88,"body":"been really important. And I"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2523.88,"endTime":2525.74,"body":"guess it's almost always kind of"},{"speaker":"and I came out with a 2","startTime":2523.88,"endTime":2525.74,"body":"been there."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2527.16,"endTime":2530.22,"body":"I love that idea"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2527.16,"endTime":2530.22,"body":"as well have being in the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2530.22,"endTime":2533.79,"body":"lectures, but being able to kind"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2530.22,"endTime":2533.79,"body":"of carry on afterwards and kind"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2533.79,"endTime":2536.46,"body":"of kind of get out what you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2533.79,"endTime":2536.46,"body":"what you're thinking because"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2536.49,"endTime":2539.55,"body":"that you know, like being a"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2536.49,"endTime":2539.55,"body":"lecturer myself, like, there's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2539.55,"endTime":2542.85,"body":"only so much time and space that"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2539.55,"endTime":2542.85,"body":"you give to something yet,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2542.85,"endTime":2545.73,"body":"there's so much more going on. I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2542.85,"endTime":2545.73,"body":"think it's really interesting"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2545.76,"endTime":2548.85,"body":"that you cover so many different"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2545.76,"endTime":2548.85,"body":"types of writing as well,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2548.85,"endTime":2552.09,"body":"because you're a poet, you blog,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2548.85,"endTime":2552.09,"body":"but then you also got kind of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2552.09,"endTime":2554.49,"body":"more kind of academic articles"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2552.09,"endTime":2554.49,"body":"that have kind of been published"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2554.49,"endTime":2556.86,"body":"as well. So you kind of cover"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2554.49,"endTime":2556.86,"body":"like lots of different types and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2556.86,"endTime":2559.95,"body":"styles of writing when you're.."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2556.86,"endTime":2559.95,"body":"and now you're writing a book,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2559.95,"endTime":2563.19,"body":"so it's there. There's lots in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2559.95,"endTime":2563.19,"body":"there!"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2563.54,"endTime":2568.28,"body":"I definitely feel"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2563.54,"endTime":2568.28,"body":"most comfortable with the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2568.28,"endTime":2572.6,"body":"blogging, I think, I think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2568.28,"endTime":2572.6,"body":"because I can just -  it's like"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2572.6,"endTime":2576.32,"body":"a conversation. You know, and I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2572.6,"endTime":2576.32,"body":"mean, the poetry as well,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2576.32,"endTime":2579.17,"body":"really. I enjoy rhyming, and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2576.32,"endTime":2579.17,"body":"sometimes it comes really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2579.17,"endTime":2584.3,"body":"easily. But I mean, I think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2579.17,"endTime":2584.3,"body":"anything conversational, I think"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2584.42,"endTime":2586.79,"body":"I'm more attracted to than than"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2584.42,"endTime":2586.79,"body":"the academic. I mean, I don't"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2586.79,"endTime":2589.58,"body":"mind the academic and I can do"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2586.79,"endTime":2589.58,"body":"it, but, it's, I don't find it"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2589.58,"endTime":2594.56,"body":"nearly as fun and as releasing"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2589.58,"endTime":2594.56,"body":"and, and I find I find blogging,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2594.56,"endTime":2597.56,"body":"really energising. And I think I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2594.56,"endTime":2597.56,"body":"feel the same about even just"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2597.56,"endTime":2600.29,"body":"writing on Twitter, I feel the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2597.56,"endTime":2600.29,"body":"same, I just find it really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2600.29,"endTime":2603.77,"body":"energising. It's something about"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2600.29,"endTime":2603.77,"body":"the kind of immediacy and the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2603.77,"endTime":2605.6,"body":"connection to other people."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2605.6,"endTime":2607.49,"body":"No, I was just"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2605.6,"endTime":2607.49,"body":"thinking that when you were"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2607.49,"endTime":2609.86,"body":"talking as well, the idea with"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2607.49,"endTime":2609.86,"body":"blogging, but also Twitter as"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2609.86,"endTime":2614.21,"body":"well, just being able to talk"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2609.86,"endTime":2614.21,"body":"about something or debate it"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2614.21,"endTime":2617.42,"body":"very quickly. And you can't"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2614.21,"endTime":2617.42,"body":"really sit there and try and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2617.42,"endTime":2620.48,"body":"come up with this really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2617.42,"endTime":2620.48,"body":"'academic' language and whatever"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2620.48,"endTime":2622.46,"body":"- you're just because, you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2620.48,"endTime":2622.46,"body":"just talking about the issues"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2622.46,"endTime":2624.44,"body":"there with somebody, you've got"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2622.46,"endTime":2624.44,"body":"to be brief in what you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2624.44,"endTime":2626.57,"body":"talking about. And there is"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2624.44,"endTime":2626.57,"body":"there is something in there"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2626.57,"endTime":2630.26,"body":"isn't about immediacy and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2626.57,"endTime":2630.26,"body":"connection and just really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2630.26,"endTime":2633.35,"body":"getting to the point of what"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2630.26,"endTime":2633.35,"body":"you're talking about. There's no"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2633.35,"endTime":2636.29,"body":"flapping around. It's just,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2633.35,"endTime":2636.29,"body":"that's just what we are actually"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2636.29,"endTime":2638.45,"body":"talking about here, which I like"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2636.29,"endTime":2638.45,"body":"that as well."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2638.63,"endTime":2640.97,"body":"Yeah, Twitter,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2638.63,"endTime":2640.97,"body":"Twitter has been the kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2641.99,"endTime":2646.1,"body":"like, the real facilitator for"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2641.99,"endTime":2646.1,"body":"me. It 's been brilliant"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2647.69,"endTime":2649.19,"body":"We've talked"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2647.69,"endTime":2649.19,"body":"quite a lot about lots of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2649.19,"endTime":2652.4,"body":"different things. And so I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2649.19,"endTime":2652.4,"body":"suppose my last question really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2652.4,"endTime":2656.36,"body":"was kind of about what is the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2652.4,"endTime":2656.36,"body":"future for you? And if you've"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2656.36,"endTime":2658.94,"body":"got any kind of like, you're"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2656.36,"endTime":2658.94,"body":"very busy with all the things"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2658.94,"endTime":2661.19,"body":"that you've talked about before"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2658.94,"endTime":2661.19,"body":"but if you got any projects or"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2661.19,"endTime":2663.32,"body":"projects coming up in the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2661.19,"endTime":2663.32,"body":"future?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2664.2,"endTime":2667.98,"body":"Well, at the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2664.2,"endTime":2667.98,"body":"moment, I am still waiting to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2667.98,"endTime":2670.56,"body":"see what's happening with"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2667.98,"endTime":2670.56,"body":"SCoPEd. So that's kind of very"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2670.56,"endTime":2672.15,"body":"much on my mind.."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2672.15,"endTime":2674.52,"body":"It's like a full"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2672.15,"endTime":2674.52,"body":"time job that is isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2674.39,"endTime":2676.67,"body":"It does feel like"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2674.39,"endTime":2676.67,"body":"it Yeah, it does feel like it"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2677.66,"endTime":2679.97,"body":"kind of ironic when I'm"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2677.66,"endTime":2679.97,"body":"campaigning against unpaid work,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2679.97,"endTime":2685.31,"body":"but there you go. It feels"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2679.97,"endTime":2685.31,"body":"important. And so that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2685.34,"endTime":2688.1,"body":"you know, that's there and I'll"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2685.34,"endTime":2688.1,"body":"continue my private practice."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2688.46,"endTime":2693.92,"body":"I've also just had a book"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2688.46,"endTime":2693.92,"body":"proposal accepted from PCSS"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2693.92,"endTime":2696.65,"body":"books. So I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2693.92,"endTime":2696.65,"body":"writing I'm going to be writing"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2696.65,"endTime":2699.8,"body":"a book on harm in therapy,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2696.65,"endTime":2699.8,"body":"covering some of the things that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2699.8,"endTime":2706.31,"body":"we talked about today, really."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2699.8,"endTime":2706.31,"body":"And yeah, looking at, looking at"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2706.52,"endTime":2709.91,"body":"what harm is, how it occurs, an"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2706.52,"endTime":2709.91,"body":"also thinking about how we coul"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2709.91,"endTime":2713.36,"body":"work with clients that have bee"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2709.91,"endTime":2713.36,"body":"harmed in therapy. There's not"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2713.36,"endTime":2715.88,"body":"ing really out there that cov"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2713.36,"endTime":2715.88,"body":"rs that in depth at the mom"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2715.88,"endTime":2719.09,"body":"nt. So I'm really hoping tha"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2715.88,"endTime":2719.09,"body":", that this book will be hel"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2719.09,"endTime":2724.73,"body":"ful for therapists who want to"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2719.09,"endTime":2724.73,"body":"hink a little bit more about the"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2724.73,"endTime":2727.94,"body":"r relationship with harm, and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2724.73,"endTime":2727.94,"body":"also who might be working wit"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2727.94,"endTime":2729.83,"body":"clients that have exp"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2727.94,"endTime":2729.83,"body":"rienced harm in the past. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2729.83,"endTime":2731.81,"body":"really excited about that. It'"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2729.83,"endTime":2731.81,"body":"gonna, you know, it's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2731.81,"endTime":2736.25,"body":"huge, project for me over t"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2731.81,"endTime":2736.25,"body":"e next year or so. But I'm re"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2736.25,"endTime":2737.75,"body":"lly, really excited about it."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2738.38,"endTime":2739.55,"body":"Well, no, I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2738.38,"endTime":2739.55,"body":"think that's absolutely"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2739.55,"endTime":2743.24,"body":"fantastic. And it's definitely"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2739.55,"endTime":2743.24,"body":"needed. And I think, actually,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2743.84,"endTime":2747.32,"body":"rather than just for therapists"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2743.84,"endTime":2747.32,"body":"who are particularly interested"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2747.32,"endTime":2749.63,"body":"in this area, I do think"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2747.32,"endTime":2749.63,"body":"actually, this topic of"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2749.63,"endTime":2754.4,"body":"conversation should be needed in"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2749.63,"endTime":2754.4,"body":"all therapy training, really,"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2754.73,"endTime":2757.85,"body":"because I think all therapists"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2754.73,"endTime":2757.85,"body":"need to be aware of where those"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2757.85,"endTime":2762.23,"body":"potential difficulties and"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2757.85,"endTime":2762.23,"body":"challenges. And so I think it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2762.5,"endTime":2766.13,"body":"well overdue topic that needs to"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2762.5,"endTime":2766.13,"body":"be written about. So I look"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2766.13,"endTime":2767.84,"body":"forward to reading it when it's"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2766.13,"endTime":2767.84,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2768.26,"endTime":2770.06,"body":"Thank you. Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2768.26,"endTime":2770.06,"body":"mean, I totally agree with that,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2770.06,"endTime":2772.58,"body":"that it really should be in"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2770.06,"endTime":2772.58,"body":"training. I don't think it was"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2772.58,"endTime":2775.25,"body":"mentioned at all in my training,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2772.58,"endTime":2775.25,"body":"sort of, except for by me,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2775.79,"endTime":2779.03,"body":"because it was always quite an"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2775.79,"endTime":2779.03,"body":"important topic for me. But I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2779.03,"endTime":2784.52,"body":"really do think that it's"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2779.03,"endTime":2784.52,"body":"something that really needs due"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2784.52,"endTime":2788.96,"body":"attention, really, because I"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2784.52,"endTime":2788.96,"body":"mean, some statistics suggest"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2788.96,"endTime":2793.97,"body":"that 10% of clients experience"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2788.96,"endTime":2793.97,"body":"harm in therapy, and that this"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2794.0,"endTime":2797.21,"body":"statistic is much higher for"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2794.0,"endTime":2797.21,"body":"people from marginalised groups."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2798.38,"endTime":2802.16,"body":"Which I think, indicates that"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2798.38,"endTime":2802.16,"body":"there's something that we really"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2802.16,"endTime":2805.04,"body":"need to take a good look at,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2802.16,"endTime":2805.04,"body":"sort of on a professional level,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2805.76,"endTime":2810.02,"body":"again, on a sort of systemic"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2805.76,"endTime":2810.02,"body":"level, as well as kind of how we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2810.02,"endTime":2813.74,"body":"are as individuals, but it does,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2810.02,"endTime":2813.74,"body":"it inevitably filters down into"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2813.74,"endTime":2818.0,"body":"the therapy room. And, and, and"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2813.74,"endTime":2818.0,"body":"we really need to look at how we"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2818.0,"endTime":2820.28,"body":"manage that, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2818.0,"endTime":2820.28,"body":"collectively and individually."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2821.45,"endTime":2824.72,"body":"Absolutely. I"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2821.45,"endTime":2824.72,"body":"couldn't agree more. I look"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2824.72,"endTime":2826.1,"body":"forward to reading about it."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2826.49,"endTime":2827.03,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2828.74,"endTime":2830.93,"body":"So I think"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2828.74,"endTime":2830.93,"body":"that's all my questions for the"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2831.11,"endTime":2834.14,"body":"podcast. And thank you very much"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2831.11,"endTime":2834.14,"body":"for doing that. I really"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2834.14,"endTime":2839.12,"body":"appreciate it. I'm sure we'll"},{"speaker":"Peter Blundell","startTime":2834.14,"endTime":2839.12,"body":"speak again soon."},{"speaker":"Erin Stevens","startTime":2840.23,"endTime":2840.77,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":2841.52,"endTime":2846.47,"body":"Thank you for listening"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":2841.52,"endTime":2846.47,"body":"to the TherapistsConnect. Go To"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":2846.56,"endTime":2855.59,"body":"www.therapists-connect.com For"},{"speaker":"Opening","startTime":2846.56,"endTime":2855.59,"body":"more discussions and debates"}]}