The #TherapistsConnect Podcast
The #TherapistsConnect Podcast
Sam Driscoll
In this episode of #TherapistsConnect The Podcast Dr Peter Blundell (twitter @drpeterblundell) interviews person-centred therapist Sam Driscoll (twitter: @counsellordrisc). Sam is a fully qualified person-centred therapist. He works in East Sussex and the surrounding areas with counselling rooms located in Eastbourne.
Sam says he specialises in providing relationships which inspire inner healing, personal development and empowerment; helping people to overcome a vast range of difficulties and concerns.
His website can be found here - https://www.samdriscolltherapy.com/
#TherapistsConnect is a platform for connecting therapists.
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Origins of #TherapistsConnect
Welcome to the TherapistsConnect podcast. Dr. Peter Blundell, interviews therapists about their work and experiences in the therapy community.
Peter Blundell :Hello and welcome to therapist connects the podcast. My name is Dr. Peter Blundell. And today I'm delighted to be interviewing Sam Driscoll and I first met Sam on Twitter. His Twitter handle is @CounsellorDrisc. Sam is a therapist person centred therapist who works in private practice around the East Eastborn area. And his website is www.SamDriscolltherapy.com. Hello,
Sam Driscoll :Hello.
Peter Blundell :How you doing?
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, no, Beth, how are you?
Peter Blundell :Good. Yeah, I'm really well, thank you.
Sam Driscoll :Pleasure to meet you.
Peter Blundell :You too. Are you having a good day?
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, not a bad day, fairly fairly busy. So after this, this signifies the end of my working week. So I'm looking forward to the weekend.
Peter Blundell :You can relax. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. It's really nice to kind of, well not necessarily meet you face to face but speak to you face to face at least because we've communicated a bit on Twitter and it's nice to kind of actually put a voice to the to the tweets.
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it feels a little bit surreal Peter. I'm not gonna lie. You're the first person I've ever spoken to, or that I've interacted with on Twitter.
Peter Blundell :Fantastic. I'm find that quite surprising because you've got quite a lot of followers on Twitter. Haven't you got like 5000 followers, I think or something?
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, I do. But I mean, the truth is, is a lot of those followers I gained when I what feels like almost to another life. So that was years ago when I was trying to help someone in the music industry. So I put a lot of work and effort into social media a lot more than I do now. So yeah, so yeah. I do have a lot of followers from
Peter Blundell :They're not necessarily they're not necessarily therapists then which is fine. So my first question, then it's gonna be about how did you end up becoming a therapist? Kind of what drew you to, to want to be a therapist?
Sam Driscoll :Well, I suppose what drew me to be a therapist was, I mean, first of all, it was one of those things when I was younger lad, like when I saw in my early 20s. It was something that had been suggested to me a couple of times, you'd be a great therapist, or before being a therapist, and at the time, it was like, Well, I mean, it didn't really fit with myself structure. You know, I want to be a lad. I didn't really want to sit in a room talking about feelings or mental health. I wanted to essentially make lots of money and then, you know, long, complex story very short. Essentially, I ended up having a breakdown, which led to me being hospitalised for a little while and I did received some mental health support which I experienced to be fairly inadequate. And the gift through that process was sort of like my self structure would completely collapse but there was a lot more movement I was able to reflect more on who I wanted to become what I valued rather than what I thought I should value or the goals that I thought I should obtain. And that was what sort of led me to think Oh, actually, you know, I am drawn in someone's suffering I am drawn to trying to support them I am you know, felt like it naturally aligned with me. So, I essentially went and put myself on a day taster training course thought dip my toe into the water and yeah, just never looked back just after then went straight on to level one and level two. then went on to the foundation degree with a top up bachelor's degree been life changing really, so Yeah, so to answer your question, I feel essentially that it aligns with my natural way of being this is naturally who I am. You know, I was an amateur therapist before professional.
Peter Blundell :Yes, I think it's interesting idea, isn't it as that arc, you know, is it inherently there in people anyway, and kind of we just go through the training, which kind of just gives us the bigger insights into what it's about really, but like, the the way of being is kind of with us from as early as you can remember.
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, I tend to agree with that statement. I think that something about me is I'm a very sensitive person. Something I've always tried to push myself away from I never wanted to be sent or received. So like a weakness in my, in my younger days. I don't want to care so much about things and stuff like that. So I feel training. A lot of it is about training and learning ethics, boundaries, you know, what's appropriate what's inappropriate, but a lot of it it's a bit like, Ah, you know, some people born and they can just paint beautiful paintings and other people can train and learn, but some people, they're more naturally inclined to it, I suppose.
Peter Blundell :Yeah, absolutely. So you found therapy found a career in therapy? When did you qualify?
Sam Driscoll :Or started my training in 2013. I, I would have qualified by 2016. But then I've carried on doing the top up I've used to give myself a bachelor's degree 2017.
Peter Blundell :Can you tell me what what has been your practice from 2017 to now then if you've been private practice? Have you worked in agencies or?
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, I have worked for an agency before that. I did work for survivors of suicide service, which was my first sort of professional role where I was actually getting paid. Unfortunately, that didn't really work out. To me for sort of political reasons, which perhaps we can discuss. Yeah, since then, I've really I've been in private practice. I mean, I come very, very close to not making the cut I am. After my stint working for survivors of suicide service, I couldn't find employment anywhere. I ended up becoming a delivery driver again for four months. And my whole ambition of becoming a therapist just fell apart until I saw like, had had a day where I was like, No, this will this work or this effort. This is not not what I want. So I, I made a blind leap of faith, essentially, and just set up, private practice. And I think I've been very fortunate with my private practice and it says, It sustained me and then since then, as well, for about a year and a half, I work as a specialist mental health mentor for a university which, you know, and that's that's another quite interesting field. What's the difference between therapy and mentoring is quiet. Some people seem to think there's a clear distinction. I've been doing it for over 18 months now and I can't, I can't quite make the distinction. I, I suppose you could swap the word mentoring which solution focus therapy but it is still very therapy, or both. So, so yeah, so that's the main video. So private practice in 2017. It is still going, Yeah.
Peter Blundell :Fantastic. And I'm glad that you've been able to find that kind of success with that, really, and that kind of role. how challenging was it then when you kind of felt like that might not happen actually, and that you were kind of not going to have a career as a therapist, I imagine that was quite difficult.
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, I mean, it was quite a stressful time because essentially, I'd done all this study, you know, going from a student that to become qualified and I couldn't get I left the survivors of suicide service. I ended up on Jobseeker's allowance. And I will assess wasn't very successful I was applying for so every single counselling related job I saw a worker role job I saw I rarely got an interview and if I got an interview I never got through and it got to the point where my I don't want to call him like job search coach or something the person I saw at the Job centre every week, was essentially about as a job here at KFC as a job here and it's up there and I said I really you know, I really don't want to do that and I said you got to work in it and you're not you're not doing everything you can secure a job and it was all this pressure was mounting up so I went to one of the jobs which was a delivery driver for Argos and I got it I thought well this is okay you know I'm earning by really wasn't it wasn't really fulfilling for me and and the other thing is I have a bad condition I have a bad backs are doing delivery work and I was feeling hurt. Yeah, it was just out of desperation and, and a real bit of luck. So I went to my old college where I'd done my training for student boards meeting as a student now happened to me another student one year below me and she just she said, See just south counselling room and she was struggling, she was looking for therapists to hirte the room on a natural basis and let's give it a go. Just give it a go. You know, yeah, spent a lot of times out my website, cousnelling directory profile, psychology Well, no, no, it's called Psychology Today that came later. I'd say within about three months of the next week setting up i had ten clients. So all of a sudden, I wasn't so dependent on the delivery driver, and I'm gonna put that away. And yeah, I've not looked back, since. So yeah, it was a bit this desperation, a lot of stress and a bit of luck in that, you know, I mean, I hate to think if I hadn't met Mia the other therapists who I've gotten I'd probably be a delivery driver now.
Peter Blundell :Yeah, it's just that bit of luck that you ended up connecting and kind of and then that that change happened then I suppose as well kind of move in from straight into private practice is can be quite scary for people really as a therapist, because there's that additional, there's additional things that you need to do outside of it. If you work in an agency isn't there that you have to set up and put in place?
Sam Driscoll :Oh, yeah, definitely, I'd say starkly different. And I mean, so now I'd say to therapists just starting out is good start and private practice is good, but you need to make sure you've got some adequate support in place because for me the difference between work for an agency and in private practice and agency has all these policies and procedures that you must follow it certain things arise which, which take some of the responsibility off of my shoulders and it's very different. Working with somebody who's suicidal in an agency with policies and procedures that you follow. You're kind of covered by following them in private practice, I mean, you're, I'm responsible for the decisions I make, you know, do I call the GP? Do I not called a GP? Do I, you know, if it gets a lot more, it can become a much more heavy burden.
Peter Blundell :And as you say, it's your responsibility. So you're making that ultimate final decision. And the policies are your own policies and procedures in terms of making that judgement, really. So there's that there is definitely a bigger responsibility. And have you found any benefits to private or practice or rewards to private practice as well, and
Sam Driscoll :um, yeah, I mean, I really love my private practice. So I love you know, because, you know, the other side of the coin for example, is I make my own policies and procedures. So for example, back when I was training, I had a placement and one of their policies, policies was is if suicidal ideations mentioned in the slightest you bring that to the GP with the client that was expected and that in my mind, well, one it's incredibly uncomfortable. Yeah. And it's it's sort of silencing in that I fell into I didn't particularly think that was helpful. I don't think that was working in the clients best interest. I felt that was being overly cautious at the agency. So yeah, so even though I haven't gotten the responsibility, being forced to respond in a way that I wouldn't actually respond, so yeah, although the responsibilities greater the freedom is greater and I really appreciate that, because I suppose it enables me to feel like I'm taking responsibility for the work I do. I feel I'm doing the best I can. I'm following my own judgement, trust.
Peter Blundell :And the idea is well, of being able to sit with an element of risk as well, you know, and being able to sit and say, okay, You know, I don't believe this is gonna go to the next steps or else I would do something about it. Where's it sounds like that agency was quite, they found that quite difficult to do.
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, very difficult. I mean personally in a private practice, I'm we were talking suicide that's fine. We were confidential. So suicidal thoughts, even suicidal intent and planning is okay although harder harder to hold but is when is the only time like, right I'm contacting someone knows if it I'm gonna try my life. I've got a plan. I've got a date, this is what I'm doing then at that moment, I think okay, but up until that point is I find it's better personally and more empowering to try and try and help the person who's suffering to reach out for further support. They spoke to the GP about how they're feeling does do their loved ones not Yeah. And I try and empower their own autonomy to take care of themselves, I suppose.
Peter Blundell :and explore it to see you know what, what is the about and and is it a concrete plan or is it is it something else going on for somebody? So, yeah. How would you describe your therapeutic approach then? Say on Twitter you say person centred is that is that still central to what you do?
Sam Driscoll :Yes. So I would always argue I'm person centred by I've got a bachelor's degree in person centred counselling. I studied it for a little bit over four years. But I mean, I'm not sure if you've experienced this Peter so you can have four people in a room they all say their person centred and it will practice very differently have very different values and different ideas of what it means to be person centred. So I think for me I'm person centred, identifies person centred, and I advertise myself as person centred, I'm fairly sure though, if other therapists could be a fly on the wall in my counselling room, they say that you're not person centred. That's integritive, or that's pluralistic, or you bring in other things. But but for me my understand person centred therapy is it encapsulates all that. There's no, this is person centred. This is not person centred, because it's kind of impossible. I feel it's impossible to define person centred therapy without the practitioner and without the client. Without those two variables. We have some loose theory by, it's impossible to really define. So yeah, I mean, whatever the hell that means, I don't know.
Peter Blundell :It's interesting that I'm wondering as well as we grow and develop as therapists how our identity changes, just to mean in that in that respect, and, you know, like, when I qualified, I had very, very clear views about what that was, and then kind of as I've have gone on, I've kind of like, well, the kind of clear, but maybe they've changed a little bit.
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, I speak to my peers sometimes I'll I'll be I I've reached the point I don't even think I know what I'm doing anymore The everything's become so blurred nothing so defined you know I I respond in some ways to some people, but it's very different they'll respond to other people with the same sort of stuff going on. And I think it's that I think both are right so now I focus on dealing with the uncertainty of not knowing, really getting a sense of that as you know, doing the best I can by just not knowing if it's not not know why I'm responding the way I'm responding to a certain thing and having that internal uncertainties
Peter Blundell :and that's part of counselling journey, whether you're a therapist or a client is net is leading towards sitting with uncertainty and actually not knowing.
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's, um, I must admit Peter if if when I If I gone to my first day training the tutor said, So, with this profession can come, a great deal of anxiety that you might have to manage, on and off if I if I'd been aware of quite the level of that, where I would have marched forward so directly and almost blindly I'm not so sure because it's Yeah, I love being a therapist but it does come across to me, I'm always reflecting God did. Did I pick up on that i've i've responded to that approach. Generally. I mean, even when it comes to, I thought once, as a qualified therapist, you'd be great. I'd lead people I'd know what I was doing. Everything would be perfect. But the first client anxiety I thought that was that would sort of reduce over time it just you know, I have so I've got someone coming. I know some. Yes, it's a bit of a challenge, I suppose.
Peter Blundell :And it's I suppose every client is unique, aren't they? So no matter where you start, you don't know where it's going to end up and so and so there is that uncertainty potentially anxiety thinking, Well, what does happen now or these things that I've said previously, which really helps someone, this person isn't even acknowledging that it's, it's all helpful. Yeah.
Sam Driscoll :Yeah. So that that panic sensation that I've had before where I feel like I'm not I'm not meeting a therapeutic need within a client and not being able to really discover what is the clients are looking for know some uncomfortable conversations I've had where, you know, I find myself wondering whether clients finding use of therapy because it doesn't feel very cohesive. It doesn't feel like a therapeutic dance. It's just been a bit fractured and a bit difficult. And I was feeling Oh, yeah, no, this is really great. And I sit there thinking, I just I don't know what's going on.
Peter Blundell :That's what supervisions is for
Sam Driscoll :Oh, yeah. Definitely a necessity.
Peter Blundell :Yeah. Have you got any advice? If anybody was coming into the profession now, what would you do or thinking about coming into the profession? Have you got any advice of what you would say to them or,
Sam Driscoll :I mean, as you know, person centred advice is a strong buzzword Oh, don't do that. But no one thing self care, the significance of self care. I never really got it as a trainee. It all felt a bit self indulgent for me the way self care was taught to me about you know, taking time out and having a nice long relaxing bath and nice walk and read a nice book it will just fell. I don't know, I didn't quite buy into it. But I think actually, if you want to become a therapist, you really need to be able to take care of yourself. And by that I mean, yeah, but take a rest when you need to rest but work hard when you need to work hard and is for me self care like balance you've got, you've got to maintain balance because you're off balance. I suppose through personal experience, if I'm not taking care of myself, my mental health begins to really suffer. If my mental health is begin to really suffer, the therapy that people are getting through working with me is not necessarily adequate. You want to be a therapist, be prepared to take care of yourself, whatever that means at an individual level. Another thing and this sort of ties in with my experience with the survivors of suicide services, acknowledge your worth the reason I ended up leaving the survivors of suicide service was I was I was offered a job on the undertake not still volunteer for them on another service or a low cost service they're working and equate to the agency valued my time at four pound an hour. I know I want to avoid going too detailed about any individual work I had times, you know, have vicarious trauma where some of the stuff that was was being explored in therapy room was really impacting me. And I'm that sense of being valued at four pounds an hour. I mean, I don't even offer that therapy, the therapist is more than making a living and earning
Peter Blundell :Yeah,
Sam Driscoll :I acknowledge that. But I feel that on a collective level that perhaps counsellors natural kind, nature is potentially taken advantage of. So, yeah, it is important we, we value ourselves and what we do and don't overextend ourselves due to the expectation of an agency that's saying, you know, there's a service that's needed because I can remember being sat in that counselling room that time after a particularly tough session walked out of a counselling session. There's a knock it's about eight different people who These people getting paid more money than me and they'll say they're laughing. They're having a good time. And I've, I've just had some stuff that's really affected me, you know. And I brought up with my coordinator at the time. So you know, it's a bit uncomfortable with the pay situation technically, I was earning less than minimum wage. And I essentially got told, you know, like it or lump it, I've done yet. I saw my work. Yeah, but that was it for me.
Peter Blundell :And that was, you know, must have been a tough decision to kind of walk away from that. Take that stance, you know, to tur away paid work.
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, yeah. It wasn't an easy decision to make. But I think, you know, I just think with the situation I was in, and the money I was earning, you know, and, and when I started my training, I was all about, you know, volunteer, it's a good thing, we should do it, but I think in our industry, it's become so normalised now that you're almost a bad person if you don't want to volunteer and I'm not really sure of many other industries where there's that expectation. You know, we train. Most training requires you to volunteer at least 100 hours, which often goes into more hours. So we do our best to learn and we invest in our own private fair fee, our own supervision we pay for training, we get to a point wev are qualified and then you know, and I think some people who can volunteer, that's great. I don't want to knock them for what they're doing that's to be expected for, you know, for training bodies to advertise level four training, so you could be a volunteer counsellor, it rubs me up the wrong way a little bit. So it is a political issue for me. Yeah. So yeah, so yeah, so that's why I think if you're trying to just just, yeah, just acknowledge your own work, you know, you're bringing skills to the table and sitting there, working with stuff that is worthy of respect, acknowledgement of your time and sense of being valued even if that's their paying for your CPD or your supervision or paying your expenses or whatever, but when it's being sold as Oh, look at this great opportunity, we're
Peter Blundell :actually going through that that training and for people who have not done it maybe don't always understand the the level of training that people go through to become a qualified counsellor or therapist. It is extensive and you know, the amount of self development that you have to go through and I say the money that people invest in terms of of that training, when people come out the other side they are you know qualified to work with people of really complex nature quite often. And and I think I think you're right being able to value yourself and saying, actually, I'm worth this I don't think there's any shame in that.
Sam Driscoll :No, no, I don't I'm also was a political hot potato, you know, people talk about on social media. Yes. But yeah, I just think for me, myself, when I was training I was just so grateful for any opportunity so secure placement in the first place and going the extra mile and then yeah, I just got so far and I just thought oh hang on I don't feel like I'm being valued now and I think if I'd carried on with them that that bitter taste that it was leaving in my mouth would have would have perhaps turn me away from counselling if they've gone on too long. Yeah.
Peter Blundell :I'm thanks. Thankfully we've we've managed to keep you in the profession. Have you got any areas that you either specialise in or that you're just particularly interested in? Or are you kind of very open? I suppose been in private practice might be quite more.
Sam Driscoll :Oh, yeah, I suppose in private practice. You know, when you set up a private practice, a lot of people advice it's important to find a niche. And I agree with that although people we live in a problem solution society, you know, if there's a problem we find professionals can give us something solution and that's so from a business perspective, that's good. But from a person centred perspective, that whole philosophy if I focus on a problem, well, I'm kind of missing the person and the complexity that surrounds that. I mean, I do take specific CPD in certain areas, I think it's important to develop knowledge in specialised areas, but I don't really specialise in anything. I'm open to working with essentially anyone and anything with with some limitations. So if someone had a severe eating disorder, I wouldn't feel that I am adequaletly trained to work in that area. But other than that, I take I take things as a case by case thing, but other than that, I don't think there's anything and I go, Oh, no, I can't. Yeah, I can't work with you. But I would say person centred specialism is probably best described as empowerment That's how I say I see person centred philosophy about trying to participate in relationships that people find empowering in some way where people feel more able to make decisions and guide their life in a way that resonates closer with their own genuine values. Well, there's perhaps superficial values that have been imposed upon them. Oh, yeah, that's where I'm at. I mean, 10 years time, who knows? I could be a specialist in whatever I don't know. You know, it'd be fair to take one day at a time. Yeah.
Peter Blundell :Fantastic. How do you how connected you feel to like the wider therapists community like either in your area or just a community in general Do you feel connected to it or to just been qualified?
Sam Driscoll :I'm, I'm fairly connected on on perhaps not as connected as I'd like to be in an ideal world, but you know why? There's a person centre community group that's set up once a month. I used to go back to that every single month religiously. I haven't been going through that so much recently but no it's a lot of persons therapists work in the same town that I know who they are, they know who I am. I have a really good working alliance with my friend Mia who I mentioned earlier she was the one who saw by I ended up renting a room off her we we sent over the past couple of years set up investing and get more counselling rooms covering the rent and rent them out on an ad hoc basis to therapists and when when I need some me and Mia and another therapist, Stephanie we have bi weekly if not weekly meetings about professional development. I am connected with not as connected I'd like to be but some people that are trained with, you know, groups.
Peter Blundell :Sounds like quite a few connections there actually.
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, I mean, I do I mean, my most value, this is probably with Mia because we see each other a lot. We discuss things a lot, we offer each other peer supervision as and when needed. But yeah, I mean, a lot of the other connections out there sort of loose connections. You know, I think when I train, one thing that I really liked about person centred theory and Carl Rogers in particular was this idea. He was a quiet revolutionary, you know, he was somebody who was actually he was changing the rules of the game, and no one really knew what he was doing. And he really come out on top of it when I, I thought, Okay, so, you know, I'm going to find my tribe and we're going to carry on we're going to pick up and sort of carry on with this Quiet Revolution. Quite, quite found anyone else who's on the same page as me. Yeah, so yeah, I'm loosely connected. I'd like to be more connected. But then the other thing is acknowledging my own limitations. I don't believe In fixed noun descriptors of our way of being, but I am fairly introverted, you know, that's a spectrum and I go up and down it, but I'm fairly introverted. So with the work I do, and being a father to three young children or having a wife, I'm very depleted. You know, a lot of time when I haven't got professional responsibility for family responsibilities. I just really won't be left in my own and sort of process my week and what's going on for me to let the dust settle sighs
Peter Blundell :I think that's a really important point as well as feel important to feel connected to the community. Absolutely. Sometimes we need to be able to step away from it and kind of say, Actually, I need my own my own space, my own time, which goes back to that self care that you were talking about at the beginning.
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, yeah, exactly that so. Yeah, I think in the future, perhaps when my family responsibilities have diminished a bit and fearing that things will be quiet. I'd like to be more involved. You know, I say, Well, you know, counsellors together UK, Maria, Glenna and Tara and the work and I'd love to be more involved in that sort of part of the professional, I want to do say this good for the profession and the professionals working within it. And I really admire what they're doing. And I saw watch them from a distance, and I have my most respect and I'd like to be more involved. But my mind, my limitations are just Yeah, for me to carry on work doing its work. I need to take care of myself and on stretch myself.
Peter Blundell :Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the balance there, isn't it? I suppose support in those campaigns when we believe in them and is it is important, but you know, just doing what you can really is good enough isn't that we have to have to push ourselves to go beyond what we're what we're able to do because of our circumstances or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's all my questions. Really. Yeah. How did you find doing that? Was it okay?
Sam Driscoll :Yeah, no, that was great. Peter. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you And yeah, thank you for taking the time to do this. No worries.
Peter Blundell :It's been really good. And I'm sure we'll chat again soon and we'll speak on Twitter.
Opening :Thank you for listening to the therapist. podcast. Go To www.dot therapists-connect.com For more discussions and debates. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
