{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.141000000000002,"endTime":28.351,"body":"Hey folks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.141000000000002,"endTime":28.351,"body":"thanks for tuning in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.361,"endTime":30.810000000000002,"body":"My name is Galen Low with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.361,"endTime":30.810000000000002,"body":"The Digital Project Manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.061,"endTime":33.660000000000004,"body":"We are a community of digital"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.061,"endTime":33.660000000000004,"body":"professionals on a mission"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":33.660000000000004,"endTime":35.86,"body":"to help each other get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":33.660000000000004,"endTime":35.86,"body":"skilled, get confident, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":35.861000000000004,"endTime":38.681,"body":"get connected so that we can"},{"speaker":"Galen 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community."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":54.85,"endTime":57.82,"body":"So today we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":54.85,"endTime":57.82,"body":"digging into why it's so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":57.82,"endTime":61.410000000000004,"body":"hard to get Agile right and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":57.82,"endTime":61.410000000000004,"body":"what agencies need to do to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":61.410000000000004,"endTime":62.82,"body":"make Agile work for them."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":63.21,"endTime":66.48,"body":"With me today is Dave Prior,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":63.21,"endTime":66.48,"body":"a Certified Scrum Trainer at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":66.48,"endTime":69.575,"body":"LeadingAgile and a renowned"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":66.48,"endTime":69.575,"body":"thought leader in the world"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":69.575,"endTime":72.355,"body":"of Agile who's been helping"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":69.575,"endTime":72.355,"body":"organizations navigate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":72.355,"endTime":75.495,"body":"their journey to Agile with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":72.355,"endTime":75.495,"body":"as little pain as possible"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":75.66499999999999,"endTime":77.39500000000001,"body":"for well over 15 years."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":77.39500000000001,"endTime":79.16499999999999,"body":"Dave, it is an honor to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":77.39500000000001,"endTime":79.16499999999999,"body":"have you on the show."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":79.405,"endTime":80.825,"body":"It's great"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":79.405,"endTime":80.825,"body":"to be here, and that was"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":80.825,"endTime":82.195,"body":"a spectacular opening."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":82.195,"endTime":83.354,"body":"It's so much better than mine."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":83.355,"endTime":84.285,"body":"I'm always just hey."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":84.495,"endTime":85.274,"body":"I get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":84.495,"endTime":85.274,"body":"a lot of practice."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":85.275,"endTime":86.965,"body":"I tell everyone I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":85.275,"endTime":86.965,"body":"record that every time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":86.965,"endTime":88.94500000000001,"body":"So listeners of the podcast,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":86.965,"endTime":88.94500000000001,"body":"you think it's just a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":88.94500000000001,"endTime":91.305,"body":"recording, no, it's us"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":88.94500000000001,"endTime":91.305,"body":"doing it live every time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":91.305,"endTime":92.19500000000001,"body":"It's my warm up act."},{"speaker":"Dave 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I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":102.805,"endTime":103.745,"body":"should have on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":103.785,"endTime":105.395,"body":"And hands down, everyone"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":103.785,"endTime":105.395,"body":"was like Dave Prior."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":105.525,"endTime":106.625,"body":"So it's an extreme honor."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":106.815,"endTime":109.095,"body":"Agile is a huge topic,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":106.815,"endTime":109.095,"body":"especially amongst"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":109.095,"endTime":110.255,"body":"our agency PMs."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":110.505,"endTime":111.815,"body":"People have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":110.505,"endTime":111.815,"body":"struggles with it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":111.83500000000001,"endTime":115.21000000000001,"body":"It is a sort of mystical"},{"speaker":"Galen 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it anymore, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":202.22,"endTime":203.83,"body":"gave in, and I saw it work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":204.06,"endTime":207.24,"body":"But for me, it wasn't until"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":204.06,"endTime":207.24,"body":"I saw it work in place, I was"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":207.24,"endTime":209.31,"body":"like, oh crap, this is a thing."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":209.64000000000001,"endTime":211.72,"body":"But I think if you're coming"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":209.64000000000001,"endTime":211.72,"body":"out of the project management"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":211.73,"endTime":212.97,"body":"mindset, it's really hard."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":212.97,"endTime":214.16,"body":"It's like switching religions."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":214.6,"endTime":215.0,"body":"Fair."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":215.02,"endTime":216.95,"body":"I love that sort 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go."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":228.625,"endTime":229.625,"body":"I love that perspective."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":229.785,"endTime":230.825,"body":"Didn't"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":229.785,"endTime":230.825,"body":"work out so well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":231.115,"endTime":233.455,"body":"I mean, you and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":231.115,"endTime":233.455,"body":"we're huge proponents of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":233.455,"endTime":236.805,"body":"fact that on paper, and in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":233.455,"endTime":236.805,"body":"theory anything can look great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":236.895,"endTime":239.065,"body":"But like, when the rubber"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":236.895,"endTime":239.065,"body":"hits the road, and making"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":239.065,"endTime":240.695,"body":"things happen, that's"},{"speaker":"Galen 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Prior","startTime":315.52,"endTime":317.83000000000004,"body":"even think to ask the question."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":317.83000000000004,"endTime":319.79999999999995,"body":"So Agile is like"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":317.83000000000004,"endTime":319.79999999999995,"body":"chemotherapy, right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":319.83000000000004,"endTime":322.66999999999996,"body":"If Waterfall is a terminal"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":319.83000000000004,"endTime":322.66999999999996,"body":"sickness, Agile could make"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":322.66999999999996,"endTime":324.80999999999995,"body":"you better, but it will"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":322.66999999999996,"endTime":324.80999999999995,"body":"make you more sick first."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":324.99,"endTime":328.40999999999997,"body":"And a lot of companies decide"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":324.99,"endTime":328.40999999999997,"body":"to go Agile because everyone's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":328.40999999999997,"endTime":330.70000000000005,"body":"doing it, or they saw that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":328.40999999999997,"endTime":330.70000000000005,"body":"safe diagram and it looked"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":330.70000000000005,"endTime":333.17999999999995,"body":"cool, or they just think they"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":330.70000000000005,"endTime":333.17999999999995,"body":"need you to be competitive,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":333.20000000000005,"endTime":334.28999999999996,"body":"but they don't know why."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":334.36,"endTime":336.98,"body":"So think of, if you run a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":334.36,"endTime":336.98,"body":"company, think of it like this"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":337.15,"endTime":338.76,"body":"- you're hiring Agile to do a job."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":338.92499999999995,"endTime":340.28499999999997,"body":"What job do you need it to do?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":340.28499999999997,"endTime":341.55499999999995,"body":"What's it's going"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":340.28499999999997,"endTime":341.55499999999995,"body":"to fix for you?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":341.635,"endTime":343.91499999999996,"body":"And what are you willing"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":341.635,"endTime":343.91499999999996,"body":"to sacrifice to get that?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":343.91499999999996,"endTime":346.18499999999995,"body":"Because it doesn't come"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":343.91499999999996,"endTime":346.18499999999995,"body":"without sacrifice and pain."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":346.41499999999996,"endTime":349.06500000000005,"body":"So I think that's probably"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":346.41499999999996,"endTime":349.06500000000005,"body":"the biggest thing that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":349.06500000000005,"endTime":350.19500000000005,"body":"people forget to ask."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":350.19500000000005,"endTime":352.495,"body":"I mean, people are in my"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":350.19500000000005,"endTime":352.495,"body":"classes all the time like, why"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":352.495,"endTime":353.355,"body":"is your company doing this?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":353.355,"endTime":354.655,"body":"So I don't know the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":353.355,"endTime":354.655,"body":"totals we had to."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":354.845,"endTime":356.985,"body":"And agencies that feel like"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":354.845,"endTime":356.985,"body":"they have to do it because"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":357.05499999999995,"endTime":360.225,"body":"it's like the hot thing still"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":357.05499999999995,"endTime":360.225,"body":"and they have to do it so"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":360.225,"endTime":361.33500000000004,"body":"they can say they're agile."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":361.57500000000005,"endTime":364.115,"body":"But very few of them actually"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":361.57500000000005,"endTime":364.115,"body":"are because they're trying to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":364.115,"endTime":365.385,"body":"fit it into a Waterfall model."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":365.63,"endTime":366.90999999999997,"body":"And it is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":365.63,"endTime":366.90999999999997,"body":"like marketing and what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":366.90999999999997,"endTime":368.86,"body":"you said about staying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":366.90999999999997,"endTime":368.86,"body":"competitive, it like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":368.89,"endTime":370.42999999999995,"body":"resonates with me immensely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":370.44000000000005,"endTime":373.65999999999997,"body":"Because there is this sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":370.44000000000005,"endTime":373.65999999999997,"body":"sense at the places I've worked"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":373.65999999999997,"endTime":375.87,"body":"and the people I've talked"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":373.65999999999997,"endTime":375.87,"body":"to where yeah, if you're not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":375.95000000000005,"endTime":378.02,"body":"agile, then you're a dinosaur."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":378.04999999999995,"endTime":380.9,"body":"Which I mean, I have my own"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":378.04999999999995,"endTime":380.9,"body":"opinions, but that's the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":380.9,"endTime":383.9,"body":"kind of mindset of these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":380.9,"endTime":383.9,"body":"agencies is that, well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":383.90999999999997,"endTime":386.78,"body":"of course we're Agile we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":383.90999999999997,"endTime":386.78,"body":"do Agile right, hire us."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":387.01,"endTime":389.37,"body":"Because we're going to make sure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":387.01,"endTime":389.37,"body":"that we're building the right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":389.37,"endTime":392.05999999999995,"body":"thing, we're going to make sure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":389.37,"endTime":392.05999999999995,"body":"we prescribe the right medicine"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":392.05999999999995,"endTime":392.94000000000005,"body":"for the thing that you want."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":393.05999999999995,"endTime":395.09000000000003,"body":"We know that you haven't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":393.05999999999995,"endTime":395.09000000000003,"body":"figured out all the answers"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":395.09000000000003,"endTime":397.78999999999996,"body":"yet, and you don't have to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":395.09000000000003,"endTime":397.78999999999996,"body":"figure them all out, come on in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":398.01,"endTime":400.369,"body":"But then, as we've been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":398.01,"endTime":400.369,"body":"alluding to, there are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":400.389,"endTime":403.659,"body":"some challenges in how that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":400.389,"endTime":403.659,"body":"transformation takes place."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":404.23900000000003,"endTime":405.55899999999997,"body":"People talk"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":404.23900000000003,"endTime":405.55899999999997,"body":"about culture all the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":405.56899999999996,"endTime":407.389,"body":"time with agile, like you"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":405.56899999999996,"endTime":407.389,"body":"have to lead with culture."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":407.389,"endTime":409.96900000000005,"body":"And culture is really important,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":407.389,"endTime":409.96900000000005,"body":"but if you don't create an"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":409.96900000000005,"endTime":412.59900000000005,"body":"environment in which something"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":409.96900000000005,"endTime":412.59900000000005,"body":"like scrum can survive,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":412.919,"endTime":413.71900000000005,"body":"it's not going to work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":413.71900000000005,"endTime":416.57899999999995,"body":"So people come and take my class"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":413.71900000000005,"endTime":416.57899999999995,"body":"and I'm like, okay, go back"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":416.57899999999995,"endTime":418.35900000000004,"body":"and tell your team, you're only"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":416.57899999999995,"endTime":418.35900000000004,"body":"going to work on one product"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":418.369,"endTime":419.73900000000003,"body":"for one customer at a time."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":419.999,"endTime":422.33900000000006,"body":"And I'm on 13 projects,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":419.999,"endTime":422.33900000000006,"body":"I can't do that."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":422.45899999999995,"endTime":425.909,"body":"So if you don't create the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":422.45899999999995,"endTime":425.909,"body":"space in which it can grow,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":425.909,"endTime":427.07899999999995,"body":"it's not going to work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":427.20899999999995,"endTime":428.43899999999996,"body":"And they don't think about that."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":428.43899999999996,"endTime":431.32899999999995,"body":"I think there's things about"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":428.43899999999996,"endTime":431.32899999999995,"body":"the agency business model"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":431.57899999999995,"endTime":435.10900000000004,"body":"that are set up to cause"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":431.57899999999995,"endTime":435.10900000000004,"body":"it to fail, unless you make"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":435.10900000000004,"endTime":436.419,"body":"really significant changes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":436.72900000000004,"endTime":438.519,"body":"Let's dig into that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":436.72900000000004,"endTime":438.519,"body":"because I agree with you in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":438.519,"endTime":441.47900000000004,"body":"the sense of, setting up a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":438.519,"endTime":441.47900000000004,"body":"culture that supports agile."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":441.79999999999995,"endTime":444.42999999999995,"body":"And where do you see that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":441.79999999999995,"endTime":444.42999999999995,"body":"conflicting with the culture of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":444.43899999999996,"endTime":446.25,"body":"just, the agency business model?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":446.45000000000005,"endTime":448.78999999999996,"body":"I was doing"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":446.45000000000005,"endTime":448.78999999999996,"body":"stuff for the TPM Summit."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":448.84000000000003,"endTime":450.89,"body":"I spoke at it a couple of"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":448.84000000000003,"endTime":450.89,"body":"times and I spent like a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":450.89,"endTime":453.98,"body":"whole year just interviewing"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":450.89,"endTime":453.98,"body":"different companies, just"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":453.98,"endTime":456.03999999999996,"body":"different agencies about"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":453.98,"endTime":456.03999999999996,"body":"their implementation of"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":456.03999999999996,"endTime":457.86,"body":"agile, trying to find a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":456.03999999999996,"endTime":457.86,"body":"place that had done it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":457.87,"endTime":459.28999999999996,"body":"And I found two"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":457.87,"endTime":459.28999999999996,"body":"that had done it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":459.615,"endTime":461.865,"body":"I found one that had"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":459.615,"endTime":461.865,"body":"declared they were the Agile"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":461.865,"endTime":464.53499999999997,"body":"transformation company for"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":461.865,"endTime":464.53499999999997,"body":"digital agencies, but everything"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":464.53499999999997,"endTime":465.53499999999997,"body":"they did wasn't Agile."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":465.635,"endTime":466.07500000000005,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":466.28499999999997,"endTime":468.07500000000005,"body":"Coming out of"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":466.28499999999997,"endTime":468.07500000000005,"body":"advertising, if a digital"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":468.07500000000005,"endTime":471.345,"body":"agency is set up where you've"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":468.07500000000005,"endTime":471.345,"body":"got tons of customers, they're"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":471.345,"endTime":473.30499999999995,"body":"all taking forever to give"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":471.345,"endTime":473.30499999999995,"body":"you sign off, even though"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":473.30499999999995,"endTime":474.025,"body":"they said they wouldn't."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":474.385,"endTime":477.645,"body":"And everybody's for the business"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":474.385,"endTime":477.645,"body":"model to survive, everyone's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":477.645,"endTime":479.995,"body":"got to be billable at least a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":477.645,"endTime":479.995,"body":"hundred percent of the time."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":480.225,"endTime":483.53499999999997,"body":"So like when I worked in jobs,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":480.225,"endTime":483.53499999999997,"body":"I would have 13 projects at"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":483.53499999999997,"endTime":487.635,"body":"once with 10 different teams"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":483.53499999999997,"endTime":487.635,"body":"and you aren't able to get to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":487.635,"endTime":490.58500000000004,"body":"the level of focus that you need"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":487.635,"endTime":490.58500000000004,"body":"to be able to do this stuff."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":490.855,"endTime":492.92499999999995,"body":"Plus, there's the fact"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":490.855,"endTime":492.92499999999995,"body":"that the salespeople are"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":492.92499999999995,"endTime":495.905,"body":"incentivized by a signature,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":492.92499999999995,"endTime":495.905,"body":"not on your ability to deliver."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":496.08500000000004,"endTime":497.855,"body":"So they'll sign up everything."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":497.895,"endTime":499.775,"body":"And then it's we don't have"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":497.895,"endTime":499.775,"body":"enough people to do the work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":499.775,"endTime":501.93499999999995,"body":"Yeah, we'll just put it"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":499.775,"endTime":501.93499999999995,"body":"on their plate anyway."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":502.095,"endTime":505.08500000000004,"body":"And so you're always squeezed"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":502.095,"endTime":505.08500000000004,"body":"for resources and time and the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":505.08500000000004,"endTime":508.625,"body":"teams don't have the space to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":505.08500000000004,"endTime":508.625,"body":"figure out how to make it work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":508.635,"endTime":510.985,"body":"They don't have the space"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":508.635,"endTime":510.985,"body":"to learn to communicate"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":510.985,"endTime":511.875,"body":"the way they need to."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":512.135,"endTime":514.595,"body":"And they're always stressed"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":512.135,"endTime":514.595,"body":"by these incredible deadlines"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":514.595,"endTime":517.675,"body":"that they have to meet that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":514.595,"endTime":517.675,"body":"are unfair and unsound."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":517.95,"endTime":520.8,"body":"Only places I've seen have"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":517.95,"endTime":520.8,"body":"changed the whole business"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":520.8,"endTime":522.81,"body":"model to make it fit with Agile."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":522.93,"endTime":524.49,"body":"And there's pain that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":522.93,"endTime":524.49,"body":"goes with that too."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":524.75,"endTime":525.64,"body":"What"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":524.75,"endTime":525.64,"body":"does that look like?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":525.64,"endTime":526.47,"body":"Am I going to ask?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":526.79,"endTime":529.19,"body":"So one of them,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":526.79,"endTime":529.19,"body":"their salespeople had to go"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":529.19,"endTime":530.8,"body":"through scrum training as well."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":530.92,"endTime":533.54,"body":"So if you look at the whole"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":530.92,"endTime":533.54,"body":"value stream from when you"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":533.55,"endTime":535.49,"body":"give the final product to the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":533.55,"endTime":535.49,"body":"customer and go all the way"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":535.49,"endTime":538.6,"body":"back to sales, and then you make"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":535.49,"endTime":538.6,"body":"sure that you've balanced this."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":538.61,"endTime":541.005,"body":"So it's not just you know, we"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":538.61,"endTime":541.005,"body":"have all these people on all"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":541.005,"endTime":543.615,"body":"these projects, but before"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":541.005,"endTime":543.615,"body":"we sign a contract, do we"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":543.615,"endTime":545.115,"body":"have the capacity to deliver?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":545.245,"endTime":548.2049999999999,"body":"Did we explain to the customer"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":545.245,"endTime":548.2049999999999,"body":"if we're agile, this is what"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":548.225,"endTime":551.345,"body":"we need from you and the level"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":548.225,"endTime":551.345,"body":"of commitment you have to have."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":551.635,"endTime":553.855,"body":"So they switched it so"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":551.635,"endTime":553.855,"body":"that everybody was part"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":553.855,"endTime":555.015,"body":"of the agile process."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":555.435,"endTime":557.78,"body":"And that groups were"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":555.435,"endTime":557.78,"body":"incentivized on their"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":557.78,"endTime":559.24,"body":"ability to deliver, right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":559.24,"endTime":561.68,"body":"So sales doesn't get their"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":559.24,"endTime":561.68,"body":"bonus unless there's a team that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":561.68,"endTime":562.76,"body":"can actually produce the work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":562.76,"endTime":565.25,"body":"So there's this dependency"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":562.76,"endTime":565.25,"body":"that's acknowledged and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":565.25,"endTime":566.6999999999999,"body":"you have to plan around it,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":565.25,"endTime":566.6999999999999,"body":"which means you're going to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":566.7099999999999,"endTime":567.76,"body":"have to turn down some work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":567.89,"endTime":569.5699999999999,"body":"So you might have to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":567.89,"endTime":569.5699999999999,"body":"charge more or whatever."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":569.77,"endTime":571.4599999999999,"body":"That's a big"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":569.77,"endTime":571.4599999999999,"body":"cultural shift, isn't it, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":571.47,"endTime":575.1899999999999,"body":"Like to your point, the sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":571.47,"endTime":575.1899999999999,"body":"of stereotypical agency model"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":575.1899999999999,"endTime":578.75,"body":"is everyone is 100 percent"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":575.1899999999999,"endTime":578.75,"body":"billable or, some like 80"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":578.75,"endTime":580.1,"body":"to 100 in some agencies."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":580.13,"endTime":582.8299999999999,"body":"But really the idea"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":580.13,"endTime":582.8299999999999,"body":"is we've got staff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":582.86,"endTime":583.98,"body":"We need to keep them busy."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":584.155,"endTime":587.545,"body":"We need to, keep the money"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":584.155,"endTime":587.545,"body":"flowing and all the incentives"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":587.545,"endTime":589.0849999999999,"body":"are oriented around that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":589.2049999999999,"endTime":592.115,"body":"But like the sales process"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":589.2049999999999,"endTime":592.115,"body":"is just sign more business"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":592.115,"endTime":593.9449999999999,"body":"to fill up, all of our"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":592.115,"endTime":593.9449999999999,"body":"resources with work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":594.125,"endTime":596.4649999999999,"body":"And then even in the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":594.125,"endTime":596.4649999999999,"body":"project, it's incented"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":596.4649999999999,"endTime":597.935,"body":"based on billable hours."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":598.0649999999999,"endTime":599.935,"body":"There isn't really that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":598.0649999999999,"endTime":599.935,"body":"much incentive usually to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":599.935,"endTime":602.98,"body":"do something quicker than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":599.935,"endTime":602.98,"body":"it would normally take a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":602.98,"endTime":605.35,"body":"person because you want to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":602.98,"endTime":605.35,"body":"make it fit the estimate."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":605.35,"endTime":607.9599999999999,"body":"You don't want to be twiddling"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":605.35,"endTime":607.9599999999999,"body":"your thumbs because then you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":607.9599999999999,"endTime":610.12,"body":"on bench and it's always full."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":610.12,"endTime":611.73,"body":"And I would love the thing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":610.12,"endTime":611.73,"body":"that resonated with me that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":611.74,"endTime":613.14,"body":"you said is that focus."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":613.47,"endTime":615.18,"body":"I hadn't even really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":613.47,"endTime":615.18,"body":"thought about it, but like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":615.28,"endTime":616.9499999999999,"body":"it takes focus to change."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":616.9499999999999,"endTime":619.48,"body":"I'm like, this is fundamentally"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":616.9499999999999,"endTime":619.48,"body":"a change management question."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":619.63,"endTime":622.0,"body":"And if you aren't giving people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":619.63,"endTime":622.0,"body":"enough room to settle into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":622.0,"endTime":624.5699999999999,"body":"that change, and it's just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":622.0,"endTime":624.5699999999999,"body":"this pressurized pipeline of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":624.5699999999999,"endTime":627.43,"body":"projects coming in and you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":624.5699999999999,"endTime":627.43,"body":"working on 10 to 13 and once,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":627.6999999999999,"endTime":629.86,"body":"and you never really get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":627.6999999999999,"endTime":629.86,"body":"a chance to figure it out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":630.22,"endTime":633.51,"body":"And it feels like just working"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":630.22,"endTime":633.51,"body":"on 13 disasters, probably."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":634.3299999999999,"endTime":636.3199999999999,"body":"The thing that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":634.3299999999999,"endTime":636.3199999999999,"body":"makes it even worse is that your"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":636.3199999999999,"endTime":638.29,"body":"customers aren't agile, right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":638.3299999999999,"endTime":640.92,"body":"So one of the companies I"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":638.3299999999999,"endTime":640.92,"body":"talked to that had managed to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":640.93,"endTime":643.55,"body":"do it as we were talking about"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":640.93,"endTime":643.55,"body":"it, what I said to the guy"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":643.55,"endTime":645.92,"body":"was, if I was your customer,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":643.55,"endTime":645.92,"body":"you would have to teach me"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":645.92,"endTime":647.02,"body":"how to be your product owner."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":647.14,"endTime":647.93,"body":"He said, yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":647.93,"endTime":649.8399999999999,"body":"And I said, well, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":647.93,"endTime":649.8399999999999,"body":"get paid to do that."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":649.9499999999999,"endTime":650.75,"body":"They don't care."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":650.77,"endTime":651.9,"body":"They're not going"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":650.77,"endTime":651.9,"body":"to pay you for that."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":652.04,"endTime":654.2099999999999,"body":"So you have to absorb"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":652.04,"endTime":654.2099999999999,"body":"the cost of being a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":654.2099999999999,"endTime":655.3,"body":"transformation agency."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":655.64,"endTime":657.9399999999999,"body":"He said, yeah, I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":655.64,"endTime":657.9399999999999,"body":"isn't that expensive?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":657.9399999999999,"endTime":660.18,"body":"And he said, it's so much"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":657.9399999999999,"endTime":660.18,"body":"more expensive not to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":660.18,"endTime":661.06,"body":"teach them how to do it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":661.72,"endTime":663.86,"body":"But so, I I work at a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":661.72,"endTime":663.86,"body":"transformation company,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":663.87,"endTime":664.93,"body":"that's all we do."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":665.03,"endTime":667.75,"body":"And a digital agency that's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":665.03,"endTime":667.75,"body":"trying to adopt agile has to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":667.75,"endTime":670.3199999999999,"body":"take on something like that,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":667.75,"endTime":670.3199999999999,"body":"that they're not expert in."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":670.66,"endTime":673.6999999999999,"body":"And the customer that wanted"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":670.66,"endTime":673.6999999999999,"body":"Agile learns that they"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":673.6999999999999,"endTime":674.55,"body":"have to change as well."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":674.55,"endTime":675.41,"body":"I mean, that's hard."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":675.5699999999999,"endTime":676.8399999999999,"body":"It makes it 10 times harder."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":677.02,"endTime":678.0899999999999,"body":"It's actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":677.02,"endTime":678.0899999999999,"body":"funny because when you think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":678.0899999999999,"endTime":681.88,"body":"of the agency mindset that I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":678.0899999999999,"endTime":681.88,"body":"most often encounter is sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":681.88,"endTime":684.62,"body":"of that, on the bandwagon,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":681.88,"endTime":684.62,"body":"staying competitive, it's more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":684.62,"endTime":685.91,"body":"of a like marketing thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":685.92,"endTime":689.03,"body":"They're trying to use it to sell"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":685.92,"endTime":689.03,"body":"digital transformation, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":689.04,"endTime":690.18,"body":"They're like, Oh"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":689.04,"endTime":690.18,"body":"yeah, we'll use Agile."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":690.41,"endTime":692.91,"body":"We'll build, all your new"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":690.41,"endTime":692.91,"body":"digital infrastructure,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":693.06,"endTime":693.78,"body":"your website."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":693.78,"endTime":695.7099999999999,"body":"We'll have all the customer"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":693.78,"endTime":695.7099999999999,"body":"touch points connect, all your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":695.7099999999999,"endTime":696.63,"body":"data is going to be together."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":696.795,"endTime":699.3349999999999,"body":"And yet they're not thinking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":696.795,"endTime":699.3349999999999,"body":"of their journey to Agile"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":699.3349999999999,"endTime":700.4449999999999,"body":"as digital transformation."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":700.535,"endTime":702.415,"body":"It's like a means for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":700.535,"endTime":702.415,"body":"them to deliver digital"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":702.415,"endTime":704.545,"body":"transformation to a client,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":702.415,"endTime":704.545,"body":"but they're not drinking,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":704.5649999999999,"endTime":705.5749999999999,"body":"their own medicine there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":705.735,"endTime":707.115,"body":"They're not even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":705.735,"endTime":707.115,"body":"seeing it that way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":707.115,"endTime":709.555,"body":"They're like, well, this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":707.115,"endTime":709.555,"body":"is just a process thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":709.555,"endTime":710.795,"body":"It's just an operations thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":710.795,"endTime":712.595,"body":"We're just going to change"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":710.795,"endTime":712.595,"body":"the steps around and we'll"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":712.595,"endTime":713.855,"body":"figure it out as we go."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":713.9649999999999,"endTime":716.395,"body":"But meanwhile, they're telling"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":713.9649999999999,"endTime":716.395,"body":"the client the exact opposite."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":716.425,"endTime":717.935,"body":"They're like, this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":716.425,"endTime":717.935,"body":"has to be, this is a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":717.935,"endTime":718.9449999999999,"body":"change management thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":718.9449999999999,"endTime":720.5849999999999,"body":"We need a communications plan."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":720.595,"endTime":721.305,"body":"We need training."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":721.305,"endTime":722.145,"body":"We need all this stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":722.385,"endTime":723.665,"body":"And they're just not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":722.385,"endTime":723.665,"body":"doing it internally."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":723.8349999999999,"endTime":726.185,"body":"And they inflict"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":723.8349999999999,"endTime":726.185,"body":"Agile on their customers"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":726.305,"endTime":728.095,"body":"when they haven't even"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":726.305,"endTime":728.095,"body":"adopted it themselves."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":728.095,"endTime":730.985,"body":"But a lot of companies that do"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":728.095,"endTime":730.985,"body":"it haven't really adopted it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":730.985,"endTime":732.925,"body":"I mean, even organizations"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":730.985,"endTime":732.925,"body":"like the Scrum Alliance"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":732.935,"endTime":734.4549999999999,"body":"struggle with using Agile."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":734.545,"endTime":735.725,"body":"So it's not easy."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":736.015,"endTime":738.285,"body":"In a way, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":736.015,"endTime":738.285,"body":"arguably that is the journey."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":738.355,"endTime":740.745,"body":"We get into a lot"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":738.355,"endTime":740.745,"body":"of debates, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":740.905,"endTime":742.755,"body":"And you've been in a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":740.905,"endTime":742.755,"body":"lot of them, I'm sure."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":742.8349999999999,"endTime":745.9649999999999,"body":"Waterfall versus Agile, or,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":742.8349999999999,"endTime":745.9649999999999,"body":"Predictive versus Adaptive,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":745.9649999999999,"endTime":747.925,"body":"or this versus that, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":745.9649999999999,"endTime":747.925,"body":"there's a lot of just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":748.0649999999999,"endTime":751.3149999999999,"body":"infighting, and debates,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":748.0649999999999,"endTime":751.3149999999999,"body":"and arguments around it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":751.4449999999999,"endTime":754.0749999999999,"body":"But even just how you frame"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":751.4449999999999,"endTime":754.0749999999999,"body":"it as a journey it's more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":754.0749999999999,"endTime":757.535,"body":"about that transition into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":754.0749999999999,"endTime":757.535,"body":"that mindset, more than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":757.535,"endTime":758.895,"body":"it is about nailing it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":758.895,"endTime":761.774,"body":"Like to your point, Scrum"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":758.895,"endTime":761.774,"body":"Alliance of all the people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":761.775,"endTime":764.785,"body":"that you'd think, will have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":761.775,"endTime":764.785,"body":"nailed it are still, watch"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":764.785,"endTime":765.435,"body":"people struggle with it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":765.515,"endTime":767.9649999999999,"body":"And it's the same"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":765.515,"endTime":767.9649999999999,"body":"way that PMI doesn't use what"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":767.9649999999999,"endTime":769.105,"body":"they teach people either."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":769.255,"endTime":772.105,"body":"So it's hard to do that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":769.255,"endTime":772.105,"body":"stuff and it takes a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":772.105,"endTime":773.375,"body":"really consistent effort."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":773.485,"endTime":775.8149999999999,"body":"I think one of the things"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":773.485,"endTime":775.8149999999999,"body":"on the digital agency side"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":775.8149999999999,"endTime":777.9449999999999,"body":"that at least for me is"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":775.8149999999999,"endTime":777.9449999999999,"body":"so refreshing about that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":777.9449999999999,"endTime":779.2149999999999,"body":"community is that it's younger."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":779.43,"endTime":783.0699999999999,"body":"And what I've seen in my"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":779.43,"endTime":783.0699999999999,"body":"experience with people in that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":783.0699999999999,"endTime":787.52,"body":"community is that debate is"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":783.0699999999999,"endTime":787.52,"body":"not as severe as it used to be."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":787.65,"endTime":792.11,"body":"And now there's Gen Z people"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":787.65,"endTime":792.11,"body":"in my classes who've never"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":792.11,"endTime":794.26,"body":"done Waterfall, like they"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":792.11,"endTime":794.26,"body":"don't even know what it is."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":794.31,"endTime":796.37,"body":"So they don't see the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":794.31,"endTime":796.37,"body":"distinction, like there's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":796.37,"endTime":799.1899999999999,"body":"no barrier there, which"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":796.37,"endTime":799.1899999999999,"body":"is great because to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":799.1899999999999,"endTime":800.12,"body":"me, they're just tools."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":800.24,"endTime":802.56,"body":"Like some tools work in one"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":800.24,"endTime":802.56,"body":"place, some work in another."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":802.56,"endTime":805.17,"body":"I use Waterfall with my Agile"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":802.56,"endTime":805.17,"body":"and Agile with my Waterfall."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":805.5,"endTime":808.665,"body":"And I think when we get"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":805.5,"endTime":808.665,"body":"to a place where they are"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":808.675,"endTime":811.0849999999999,"body":"perceived as just tools and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":808.675,"endTime":811.0849999999999,"body":"people can pick the right"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":811.0849999999999,"endTime":813.035,"body":"tools for the right job in"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":811.0849999999999,"endTime":813.035,"body":"the right place, then we'll"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":813.045,"endTime":814.045,"body":"be in a much better spot."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":814.3149999999999,"endTime":814.755,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":814.755,"endTime":817.3349999999999,"body":"And actually I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":814.755,"endTime":817.3349999999999,"body":"dig into that because it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":817.3349999999999,"endTime":820.8349999999999,"body":"resonates with me so much in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":817.3349999999999,"endTime":820.8349999999999,"body":"the agency world, especially"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":820.8349999999999,"endTime":821.665,"body":"like you mentioned, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":821.665,"endTime":824.265,"body":"There are sort of younger"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":821.665,"endTime":824.265,"body":"professionals working"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":824.265,"endTime":825.235,"body":"in these industries."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":825.5899999999999,"endTime":828.4,"body":"They know Agile, they want to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":825.5899999999999,"endTime":828.4,"body":"do Agile, they might not even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":828.41,"endTime":829.74,"body":"have experience with Waterfall."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":829.93,"endTime":832.54,"body":"And yet, there's still,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":829.93,"endTime":832.54,"body":"I see a lot of stigma"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":832.5799999999999,"endTime":835.85,"body":"around this notion of not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":832.5799999999999,"endTime":835.85,"body":"being \"pure\" Agile, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":835.92,"endTime":838.5799999999999,"body":"This Wagile, Watergile,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":835.92,"endTime":838.5799999999999,"body":"like it's a dirty word"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":838.5799999999999,"endTime":839.5799999999999,"body":"in the agency world."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":839.7099999999999,"endTime":842.3399999999999,"body":"And yet, when I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":839.7099999999999,"endTime":842.3399999999999,"body":"around, the notion of a hybrid"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":842.3399999999999,"endTime":845.13,"body":"or tailoring your methodology is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":842.3399999999999,"endTime":845.13,"body":"becoming much more commonplace."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":845.15,"endTime":847.76,"body":"But I feel like in this bubble"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":845.15,"endTime":847.76,"body":"of the agency world, it's still"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":847.81,"endTime":852.14,"body":"not acceptable to have some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":847.81,"endTime":852.14,"body":"Waterfall in your Agile and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":852.14,"endTime":853.12,"body":"some Agile in your Waterfall."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":853.26,"endTime":855.02,"body":"People get"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":853.26,"endTime":855.02,"body":"really hung up on that and I"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":855.03,"endTime":857.75,"body":"think it's very unfortunate"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":855.03,"endTime":857.75,"body":"because nobody cares."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":857.78,"endTime":859.36,"body":"It's not like the scrum"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":857.78,"endTime":859.36,"body":"police are going to come"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":859.36,"endTime":860.39,"body":"around and arrest you."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":860.52,"endTime":862.12,"body":"You have to pick"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":860.52,"endTime":862.12,"body":"the right tools."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":862.12,"endTime":864.35,"body":"When people want to know"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":862.12,"endTime":864.35,"body":"am I doing it right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":864.35,"endTime":864.9399999999999,"body":"I'm like, yes."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":865.0899999999999,"endTime":866.29,"body":"I don't care what you're doing."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":866.29,"endTime":867.174,"body":"You're doing it right."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":867.3149999999999,"endTime":869.265,"body":"But the only way you can"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":867.3149999999999,"endTime":869.265,"body":"really do this stuff wrong"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":869.265,"endTime":870.635,"body":"is to not do retrospectives."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":870.795,"endTime":874.605,"body":"So I did a call yesterday"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":870.795,"endTime":874.605,"body":"with two teams who said"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":874.605,"endTime":876.355,"body":"they were agile and they"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":874.605,"endTime":876.355,"body":"weren't doing sprint"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":876.355,"endTime":877.145,"body":"reviews or retrospectives."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":878.025,"endTime":880.0749999999999,"body":"The retrospective is more"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":878.025,"endTime":880.0749999999999,"body":"important than the work"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":880.0749999999999,"endTime":882.345,"body":"you produce, because even"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":880.0749999999999,"endTime":882.345,"body":"if you fail to deliver,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":882.375,"endTime":883.9549999999999,"body":"the retrospective is"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":882.375,"endTime":883.9549999999999,"body":"where you figure out how"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":883.9549999999999,"endTime":885.175,"body":"not to do that next time."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":885.385,"endTime":888.155,"body":"So, I think if I could"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":885.385,"endTime":888.155,"body":"deliver two messages, one,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":888.395,"endTime":890.925,"body":"nobody cares if you're pure"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":888.395,"endTime":890.925,"body":"Waterfall or pure Agile."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":891.165,"endTime":895.045,"body":"Two, do retrospectives not at"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":891.165,"endTime":895.045,"body":"the end of the project, at the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":895.045,"endTime":896.285,"body":"end of every single sprint."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":896.515,"endTime":898.7149999999999,"body":"I don't know anybody who coaches"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":896.515,"endTime":898.7149999999999,"body":"this stuff that won't tell you"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":898.7149999999999,"endTime":899.7149999999999,"body":"that's the most important thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":899.98,"endTime":900.29,"body":"There."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":900.3199999999999,"endTime":903.0699999999999,"body":"And and that is the advantage"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":900.3199999999999,"endTime":903.0699999999999,"body":"when you go through the pros"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":903.0699999999999,"endTime":905.43,"body":"and cons of a predictive"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":903.0699999999999,"endTime":905.43,"body":"approach versus an adaptive"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":905.43,"endTime":908.66,"body":"approach, one of the strongest"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":905.43,"endTime":908.66,"body":"pros is that we get to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":908.78,"endTime":910.48,"body":"reflect on the work sooner."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":910.66,"endTime":912.78,"body":"And sure, yeah, you could have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":910.66,"endTime":912.78,"body":"a Waterfall project where you do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":912.8199999999999,"endTime":916.16,"body":"intermittent retrospectives or,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":912.8199999999999,"endTime":916.16,"body":"it's a better risk management,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":916.17,"endTime":918.37,"body":"more like pre mortems or what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":916.17,"endTime":918.37,"body":"have you, but the mindset"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":918.37,"endTime":921.7099999999999,"body":"is baked into the agile sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":918.37,"endTime":921.7099999999999,"body":"of values and principles to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":921.76,"endTime":923.75,"body":"collaborate reflect and learn."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":924.015,"endTime":925.985,"body":"And keep iterating and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":924.015,"endTime":925.985,"body":"incrementing towards your goal."},{"speaker":"Dave 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Prior","startTime":934.9649999999999,"endTime":937.995,"body":"information to guess anything"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":937.995,"endTime":939.015,"body":"that's going to be close."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":939.395,"endTime":942.43,"body":"So you just do the best you"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":939.395,"endTime":942.43,"body":"can, and you just keep trying"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":942.43,"endTime":945.01,"body":"to get closer to the thing"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":942.43,"endTime":945.01,"body":"that you need to deliver for"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":945.01,"endTime":947.39,"body":"the customer to get their"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":945.01,"endTime":947.39,"body":"value, and for the team to get"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":947.39,"endTime":948.48,"body":"value out of working together."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":948.55,"endTime":949.63,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":948.55,"endTime":949.63,"body":"really important too."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":949.76,"endTime":952.03,"body":"I guess that is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":949.76,"endTime":952.03,"body":"the sort of, it draws a line"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":952.03,"endTime":955.73,"body":"right at the major complaint"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":952.03,"endTime":955.73,"body":"in an agency context of why"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":955.74,"endTime":958.68,"body":"agile might not work is because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":955.74,"endTime":958.68,"body":"they're like, we'll try our"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":958.68,"endTime":960.66,"body":"best and you tell that to a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":958.68,"endTime":960.66,"body":"client and they're like, so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":960.66,"endTime":963.42,"body":"hold on, I'm paying you how"},{"speaker":"Galen 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happy with."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":984.72,"endTime":986.5699999999999,"body":"So I started to write"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":984.72,"endTime":986.5699999999999,"body":"my statements of work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":986.66,"endTime":988.87,"body":"Like I would sit down with"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":986.66,"endTime":988.87,"body":"the client and say, look,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":988.88,"endTime":990.55,"body":"there's 12 things that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":988.88,"endTime":990.55,"body":"I have to give to you."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":990.55,"endTime":992.53,"body":"According to this statement"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":990.55,"endTime":992.53,"body":"of work, you need to make sure"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":992.53,"endTime":993.8,"body":"everything you need is in here."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":993.8199999999999,"endTime":995.43,"body":"Cause when I give you these"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":993.8199999999999,"endTime":995.43,"body":"12 things, I don't want"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":995.43,"endTime":996.4,"body":"to hear, I'm not happy."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":996.4,"endTime":997.62,"body":"I want to hear, here's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":996.4,"endTime":997.62,"body":"your freakin' check."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":998.47,"endTime":1000.51,"body":"But now I write statements"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":998.47,"endTime":1000.51,"body":"work very differently."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1000.55,"endTime":1002.48,"body":"So I would write, my"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1000.55,"endTime":1002.48,"body":"understanding of what"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1002.48,"endTime":1003.5699999999999,"body":"you're looking for is X."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1004.025,"endTime":1006.845,"body":"Based on the conversations"},{"speaker":"Dave 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Prior","startTime":1017.485,"endTime":1020.625,"body":"So basically, SOW is"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1017.485,"endTime":1020.625,"body":"written, and I'm saying,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1020.635,"endTime":1022.875,"body":"I'm going to show up at"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1020.635,"endTime":1022.875,"body":"your house with six people."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1023.115,"endTime":1025.885,"body":"We will mow lawns, make"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1023.115,"endTime":1025.885,"body":"cakes, write software, like"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1025.895,"endTime":1027.045,"body":"whatever the hell you want."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1027.375,"endTime":1029.415,"body":"But the meter's running"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1027.375,"endTime":1029.415,"body":"and it's your job to make"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1029.415,"endTime":1030.4850000000001,"body":"sure you get what you need."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1030.505,"endTime":1033.555,"body":"So that's the pushback across"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1030.505,"endTime":1033.555,"body":"the table is the customer has"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1033.555,"endTime":1037.885,"body":"to own, what if they ask you to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1033.555,"endTime":1037.885,"body":"redesign the banner 75 times?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1038.005,"endTime":1039.695,"body":"Yeah, we can do that, but"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1038.005,"endTime":1039.695,"body":"you're not going to get"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1039.695,"endTime":1040.565,"body":"the other things you want."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1040.7450000000001,"endTime":1041.875,"body":"And that's your call."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1042.165,"endTime":1044.065,"body":"So that's, I think, a really"},{"speaker":"Dave 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when it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1065.1499999999999,"endTime":1067.2,"body":"more prescriptive, you have"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1067.2,"endTime":1069.73,"body":"to consider the fact that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1067.2,"endTime":1069.73,"body":"your client who wants that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1069.74,"endTime":1071.72,"body":"statement of work doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1069.74,"endTime":1071.72,"body":"even know what's wrong."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1072.07,"endTime":1075.8799999999999,"body":"They just decided they wanted"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1072.07,"endTime":1075.8799999999999,"body":"a thing and as you build it"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1075.8799999999999,"endTime":1078.1499999999999,"body":"for them, they're like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1075.8799999999999,"endTime":1078.1499999999999,"body":"this isn't really what we need."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1078.17,"endTime":1079.69,"body":"There's no flexibility there."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1079.8999999999999,"endTime":1080.87,"body":"So that's the trade off."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1080.87,"endTime":1084.27,"body":"Like they can have a product at"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1080.87,"endTime":1084.27,"body":"the end, the client can, that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1084.28,"endTime":1086.86,"body":"meets their needs if they're"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1084.28,"endTime":1086.86,"body":"willing to commit the time."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1087.17,"endTime":1090.5,"body":"And work with a little bit"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1087.17,"endTime":1090.5,"body":"of, I think the uncertainty"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1090.5,"endTime":1092.77,"body":"is there either way, but"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1090.5,"endTime":1092.77,"body":"we acknowledge it up front."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1093.0,"endTime":1094.57,"body":"So it's a little"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1093.0,"endTime":1094.57,"body":"more bravery, maybe."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1094.73,"endTime":1096.3,"body":"Bravery is a good"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1094.73,"endTime":1096.3,"body":"word for it, and also what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1096.3,"endTime":1099.1,"body":"I really love about how you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1096.3,"endTime":1099.1,"body":"framed your statement of work"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1099.23,"endTime":1102.19,"body":"is, you're using it as an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1099.23,"endTime":1102.19,"body":"opportunity to prove that you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1102.19,"endTime":1103.57,"body":"understand what the problem is."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1103.79,"endTime":1105.85,"body":"Knowing that we might not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1103.79,"endTime":1105.85,"body":"have a solution, but you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1105.85,"endTime":1108.26,"body":"know, you opened with,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1105.85,"endTime":1108.26,"body":"my understanding is this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1108.69,"endTime":1111.1,"body":"I think fundamentally that is,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1108.69,"endTime":1111.1,"body":"sometimes what's broken about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1111.1,"endTime":1115.12,"body":"the agency client relationship,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1111.1,"endTime":1115.12,"body":"it is like your team executes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1115.12,"endTime":1118.03,"body":"my demands do stuff, do these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1115.12,"endTime":1118.03,"body":"things that I've asked you to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1118.03,"endTime":1119.68,"body":"do, and that's the relationship."},{"speaker":"Galen 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obviously they suck."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1133.21,"endTime":1135.745,"body":"So there is that sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1133.21,"endTime":1135.745,"body":"counterbalance, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1135.745,"endTime":1137.875,"body":"starting to understand now is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1135.745,"endTime":1137.875,"body":"like the shape of an agency"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1137.875,"endTime":1140.685,"body":"that is completely oriented"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1137.875,"endTime":1140.685,"body":"around, something like Scrum"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1140.725,"endTime":1143.365,"body":"or something like an agile"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1140.725,"endTime":1143.365,"body":"mindset, right from the,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1143.425,"endTime":1144.5049999999999,"body":"sales and statement of work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1144.675,"endTime":1144.885,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1144.885,"endTime":1147.875,"body":"And that goes all the way"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1144.885,"endTime":1147.875,"body":"back to the agile manifesto."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1147.875,"endTime":1151.245,"body":"So I can't believe I'm quoting"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1147.875,"endTime":1151.245,"body":"this, but customer collaboration"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1151.245,"endTime":1152.565,"body":"over contract negotiation."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1152.685,"endTime":1156.475,"body":"I used to treat my contracts"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1152.685,"endTime":1156.475,"body":"like it was my shield to protect"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1156.475,"endTime":1157.885,"body":"myself from my idiot clients."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1158.47,"endTime":1161.97,"body":"And because they were all"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1158.47,"endTime":1161.97,"body":"idiots and now I treat it"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1161.97,"endTime":1165.49,"body":"like it creates the stage"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1161.97,"endTime":1165.49,"body":"on which we can collaborate."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1165.5,"endTime":1167.2,"body":"They don't know what they"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1165.5,"endTime":1167.2,"body":"need and I don't know how to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1167.21,"endTime":1169.6499999999999,"body":"give it to them, but we're"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1167.21,"endTime":1169.6499999999999,"body":"going to partner together."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1169.7,"endTime":1172.16,"body":"And they have to walk into"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1169.7,"endTime":1172.16,"body":"this like with their eyes open."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1172.25,"endTime":1174.43,"body":"So they have to know"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1172.25,"endTime":1174.43,"body":"there's going to be more"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1174.43,"endTime":1175.45,"body":"demand placed on them."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1175.45,"endTime":1177.55,"body":"They're going to need to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1175.45,"endTime":1177.55,"body":"be more engaged, but we'll"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1177.62,"endTime":1178.6399999999999,"body":"figure it out together."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1178.92,"endTime":1181.97,"body":"It almost flips"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1178.92,"endTime":1181.97,"body":"Intel, I'll get to the other"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1181.97,"endTime":1184.3,"body":"thing in the Intel after"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1181.97,"endTime":1184.3,"body":"this, but it almost flips to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1184.3,"endTime":1187.27,"body":"be like, okay, now actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1184.3,"endTime":1187.27,"body":"agency has power, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1187.27,"endTime":1188.75,"body":"Cause we're like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1187.27,"endTime":1188.75,"body":"listen, you still have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1188.75,"endTime":1189.51,"body":"to tell us what to do."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1189.6499999999999,"endTime":1191.66,"body":"We'll give you information"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1189.6499999999999,"endTime":1191.66,"body":"about how long things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1191.66,"endTime":1193.98,"body":"will take or like what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1191.66,"endTime":1193.98,"body":"our capacity is, but we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1193.98,"endTime":1194.99,"body":"going to sprint over sprint."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1195.18,"endTime":1197.32,"body":"You ask us to mow your lawn, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1195.18,"endTime":1197.32,"body":"ask us to clean your bathroom,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1197.32,"endTime":1198.17,"body":"that's fine, we'll do it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1198.27,"endTime":1200.82,"body":"We'll be transparent about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1198.27,"endTime":1200.82,"body":"it and you're in charge."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1201.05,"endTime":1203.6499999999999,"body":"And then it it almost flips that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1201.05,"endTime":1203.6499999999999,"body":"and then the client's Oh, okay."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1203.6499999999999,"endTime":1207.23,"body":"Well, like part of me getting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1203.6499999999999,"endTime":1207.23,"body":"an agency was so I, could"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1207.46,"endTime":1208.17,"body":"have someone to blame."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1208.44,"endTime":1210.51,"body":"And now you're telling me it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1208.44,"endTime":1210.51,"body":"actually my responsibility."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1211.08,"endTime":1213.24,"body":"I mean, when people"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1211.08,"endTime":1213.24,"body":"started to put those pause"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1213.26,"endTime":1215.3899999999999,"body":"clauses into their statements"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1213.26,"endTime":1215.3899999999999,"body":"work, like we didn't have"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1215.3899999999999,"endTime":1216.1499999999999,"body":"that when I was doing it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1216.2,"endTime":1218.03,"body":"The client is would say,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1216.2,"endTime":1218.03,"body":"they turn around feedback"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1218.03,"endTime":1218.83,"body":"in two days and they would."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1219.03,"endTime":1220.62,"body":"So then they add this"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1219.03,"endTime":1220.62,"body":"thing and it says, if"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1220.62,"endTime":1222.79,"body":"you don't, everyone's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1220.62,"endTime":1222.79,"body":"going to get reassigned."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1223.035,"endTime":1225.465,"body":"Which is still a pretty"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1223.035,"endTime":1225.465,"body":"punitive way of handling it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1225.655,"endTime":1227.935,"body":"To me, I need to be able to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1225.655,"endTime":1227.935,"body":"sit down with you up front"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1227.935,"endTime":1230.115,"body":"and say, Look, you're going to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1227.935,"endTime":1230.115,"body":"have to be with us every day."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1230.295,"endTime":1232.605,"body":"If you want this to work,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1230.295,"endTime":1232.605,"body":"if you want us to do Agile,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1232.605,"endTime":1233.705,"body":"like this is what it takes."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1233.705,"endTime":1237.0249999999999,"body":"Which, if you're an agency"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1233.705,"endTime":1237.0249999999999,"body":"that's trying to sell Agile"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1237.055,"endTime":1239.565,"body":"to the client, then it's not"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1237.055,"endTime":1239.565,"body":"just have you heard the good"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1239.565,"endTime":1241.545,"body":"news, it's have you heard"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1239.565,"endTime":1241.545,"body":"the good news and I'm going"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1241.545,"endTime":1242.565,"body":"to use up half your time."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1242.8899999999999,"endTime":1245.69,"body":"Which, like, why are they paying"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1242.8899999999999,"endTime":1245.69,"body":"you to take more of their time?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1245.99,"endTime":1247.79,"body":"And that goes back to what"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1245.99,"endTime":1247.79,"body":"problem does it solve?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1247.95,"endTime":1249.41,"body":"Okay, actually,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1247.95,"endTime":1249.41,"body":"let's pause on that question."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1249.44,"endTime":1253.35,"body":"What problem does it solve for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1249.44,"endTime":1253.35,"body":"a client from that perspective?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1253.37,"endTime":1256.26,"body":"In this scenario now where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1253.37,"endTime":1256.26,"body":"it's okay, I need to spend more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1256.26,"endTime":1261.05,"body":"time and just as much money to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1256.26,"endTime":1261.05,"body":"get something that hopefully"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1261.05,"endTime":1264.6,"body":"will be the right solution to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1261.05,"endTime":1264.6,"body":"the problem, but I can't go"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1264.6,"endTime":1267.24,"body":"to anyone right now and say,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1264.6,"endTime":1267.24,"body":"hey, we've got an agency that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1267.24,"endTime":1268.28,"body":"going to build this solution."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1268.615,"endTime":1271.095,"body":"Well, you can say"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1268.615,"endTime":1271.095,"body":"we're going to solve a problem."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1271.155,"endTime":1272.915,"body":"I think that's a big"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1271.155,"endTime":1272.915,"body":"part of it is falling in"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1272.915,"endTime":1273.745,"body":"love with the problem."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1273.865,"endTime":1277.795,"body":"The trade off is the old way,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1273.865,"endTime":1277.795,"body":"you basically point at a thing"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1277.795,"endTime":1281.225,"body":"and just go there, regardless"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1277.795,"endTime":1281.225,"body":"of what else happens, COVID,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1281.2549999999999,"endTime":1282.655,"body":"market shifts, whatever."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1282.785,"endTime":1285.5049999999999,"body":"This is, we're going to take"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1282.785,"endTime":1285.5049999999999,"body":"one step, we're going to stop,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1285.5049999999999,"endTime":1286.325,"body":"we're going to look around."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1286.335,"endTime":1287.925,"body":"Should we keep going this"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1286.335,"endTime":1287.925,"body":"way or should we turn?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1287.925,"endTime":1289.965,"body":"It's basically all the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1287.925,"endTime":1289.965,"body":"same stuff in lean startup."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1289.965,"endTime":1293.245,"body":"So we want to give the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1289.965,"endTime":1293.245,"body":"customer the ability to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1293.245,"endTime":1295.835,"body":"learn and adjust, and we will"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1293.245,"endTime":1295.835,"body":"learn and adjust with them."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1296.375,"endTime":1299.985,"body":"For that to work, you have"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1296.375,"endTime":1299.985,"body":"to be working together and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1299.985,"endTime":1301.605,"body":"inspecting and adapting"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1299.985,"endTime":1301.605,"body":"the whole way through."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1301.605,"endTime":1305.55,"body":"So saying I want to get"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1301.605,"endTime":1305.55,"body":"a medical degree is one"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1305.55,"endTime":1307.76,"body":"thing, saying, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1305.55,"endTime":1307.76,"body":"to get a medical degree"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1307.78,"endTime":1309.71,"body":"from Harvard with this GPA."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1309.8899999999999,"endTime":1311.67,"body":"What if you can't get"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1309.8899999999999,"endTime":1311.67,"body":"into Harvard, right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1311.8999999999999,"endTime":1314.43,"body":"Then you're screwed, but"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1311.8999999999999,"endTime":1314.43,"body":"you can still get a medical."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1314.57,"endTime":1316.41,"body":"Or maybe you realize you"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1314.57,"endTime":1316.41,"body":"don't want to be a doctor."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1316.43,"endTime":1318.24,"body":"You want to be a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1316.43,"endTime":1318.24,"body":"vet or whatever."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1318.47,"endTime":1321.57,"body":"So we want to give them the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1318.47,"endTime":1321.57,"body":"opportunity to learn and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1321.57,"endTime":1323.41,"body":"change, but it comes at a cost."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1323.98,"endTime":1325.91,"body":"I love that notion"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1323.98,"endTime":1325.91,"body":"of just this collaboration."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1325.92,"endTime":1327.6,"body":"It's the collaboration and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1325.92,"endTime":1327.6,"body":"trust that makes it work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1327.6,"endTime":1329.76,"body":"And coming back to what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1327.6,"endTime":1329.76,"body":"you originally said, where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1330.07,"endTime":1332.54,"body":"sometimes you have to see"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1330.07,"endTime":1332.54,"body":"it working to trust it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1332.795,"endTime":1333.615,"body":"Yeah, everybody."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1333.645,"endTime":1337.0149999999999,"body":"I don't know anybody who has"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1333.645,"endTime":1337.0149999999999,"body":"really gotten on board with"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1337.0149999999999,"endTime":1338.735,"body":"it until they've seen it work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1338.845,"endTime":1340.845,"body":"And therefore"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1338.845,"endTime":1340.845,"body":"the, you know, \"contract"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1340.845,"endTime":1344.2649999999999,"body":"negotiation\" starts becoming"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1340.845,"endTime":1344.2649999999999,"body":"less about, yes, protecting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1344.2649999999999,"endTime":1347.125,"body":"yourself from your idiot"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1344.2649999999999,"endTime":1347.125,"body":"clients and their wild demands."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1347.335,"endTime":1350.7649999999999,"body":"It becomes more about pushing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1347.335,"endTime":1350.7649999999999,"body":"them to get that first sprint"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1350.7649999999999,"endTime":1353.835,"body":"so they can see it in action"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1350.7649999999999,"endTime":1353.835,"body":"and then let that get easier"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1353.835,"endTime":1356.58,"body":"and easier because that trust"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1353.835,"endTime":1356.58,"body":"is built, sprint over sprint,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1356.58,"endTime":1357.79,"body":"iteration over iteration."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1357.92,"endTime":1360.07,"body":"Which in terms"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1357.92,"endTime":1360.07,"body":"of a risk factor, like in a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1360.07,"endTime":1362.6399999999999,"body":"company, if we had a new client,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1360.07,"endTime":1362.6399999999999,"body":"we were only going to take"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1362.6499999999999,"endTime":1365.24,"body":"work instead of like for two"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1362.6499999999999,"endTime":1365.24,"body":"years, just for the quarter."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1365.41,"endTime":1367.95,"body":"If my team is the only one"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1365.41,"endTime":1367.95,"body":"they've ever worked with, it"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1367.96,"endTime":1370.98,"body":"delivers every two weeks and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1367.96,"endTime":1370.98,"body":"they can see and touch tangible"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1370.99,"endTime":1372.2,"body":"things and get feedback on it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1372.57,"endTime":1374.03,"body":"There's no trouble"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1372.57,"endTime":1374.03,"body":"getting more money."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1374.04,"endTime":1376.06,"body":"I've never been on a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1374.04,"endTime":1376.06,"body":"gig where even if they"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1376.06,"endTime":1378.08,"body":"only budget annually, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1376.06,"endTime":1378.08,"body":"couldn't get more money."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1378.27,"endTime":1380.84,"body":"Because they're not used to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1378.27,"endTime":1380.84,"body":"seeing that turnaround and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1380.84,"endTime":1381.93,"body":"they're blown away by it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1381.98,"endTime":1384.83,"body":"So that's something they start"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1381.98,"endTime":1384.83,"body":"to appreciate and then they're"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1384.83,"endTime":1386.08,"body":"more willing to give into it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1386.1,"endTime":1389.28,"body":"And for the people on the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1386.1,"endTime":1389.28,"body":"teams, when they get to see,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1389.28,"endTime":1391.6,"body":"a lot of people get frustrated"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1389.28,"endTime":1391.6,"body":"by doing stuff over, like"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1391.6,"endTime":1393.97,"body":"designers and developers hate"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1391.6,"endTime":1393.97,"body":"having to do stuff twice."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1394.5,"endTime":1398.21,"body":"But when they can see the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1394.5,"endTime":1398.21,"body":"results of that for the customer"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1398.3,"endTime":1401.27,"body":"and the end user, like how much"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1398.3,"endTime":1401.27,"body":"better this is now because we"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1401.27,"endTime":1403.1399999999999,"body":"actually kept putting it in"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1401.27,"endTime":1403.1399999999999,"body":"front of them over and over"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1403.1399999999999,"endTime":1405.47,"body":"again, I mean, it just, it"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1403.1399999999999,"endTime":1405.47,"body":"always makes the case work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1405.62,"endTime":1407.8999999999999,"body":"I love that sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1405.62,"endTime":1407.8999999999999,"body":"of like proof in the pudding."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1408.1499999999999,"endTime":1410.67,"body":"But I mean, yeah, obviously it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1408.1499999999999,"endTime":1410.67,"body":"it presents a situation where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1410.67,"endTime":1413.7,"body":"you need to be like, trust me,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1410.67,"endTime":1413.7,"body":"let's go once you experience"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1413.8899999999999,"endTime":1414.59,"body":"it, it's going to be good."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1414.7,"endTime":1417.3,"body":"Well, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1414.7,"endTime":1417.3,"body":"would say trust us."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1417.59,"endTime":1419.25,"body":"Because we're going to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1417.59,"endTime":1419.25,"body":"work together, right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1419.28,"endTime":1420.85,"body":"So if anybody doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1419.28,"endTime":1420.85,"body":"get what they need,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1420.85,"endTime":1422.0,"body":"it's both parties fault."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1422.5,"endTime":1424.6499999999999,"body":"But you do have to have,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1422.5,"endTime":1424.6499999999999,"body":"they have to be willing to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1424.6499999999999,"endTime":1425.84,"body":"enter into that arrangement."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1426.19,"endTime":1426.84,"body":"Yeah, that's fair."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1426.84,"endTime":1428.93,"body":"And actually, I wanted to circle"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1426.84,"endTime":1428.93,"body":"back around to that because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1428.93,"endTime":1429.92,"body":"two things you said earlier."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1429.92,"endTime":1433.32,"body":"One was, you might have to turn"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1429.92,"endTime":1433.32,"body":"away work, which I know a lot of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1433.32,"endTime":1434.76,"body":"agencies might be allergic to."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1434.97,"endTime":1435.86,"body":"And then you were"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1434.97,"endTime":1435.86,"body":"talking about..."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1436.06,"endTime":1437.76,"body":"Not allergic"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1436.06,"endTime":1437.76,"body":"financially, they can't."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1437.8899999999999,"endTime":1438.8899999999999,"body":"They got to take every gig."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1438.96,"endTime":1439.73,"body":"Well, fair enough."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1439.77,"endTime":1441.35,"body":"And then I think you come"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1439.77,"endTime":1441.35,"body":"back around to the other"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1441.35,"endTime":1444.17,"body":"thing you said, which is that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1441.35,"endTime":1444.17,"body":"actually from a risk management"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1444.18,"endTime":1449.43,"body":"perspective the ROI on training"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1444.18,"endTime":1449.43,"body":"a customer or a client in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1449.45,"endTime":1452.67,"body":"Agile might actually help you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1449.45,"endTime":1452.67,"body":"make more money instead of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1452.68,"endTime":1453.97,"body":"lose a whole bunch of money."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1454.09,"endTime":1456.41,"body":"That might be an investment"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1454.09,"endTime":1456.41,"body":"that's worthwhile, and I know"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1456.41,"endTime":1458.6299999999999,"body":"a lot of folks that I talk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1456.41,"endTime":1458.6299999999999,"body":"to in our community that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1458.6299999999999,"endTime":1459.51,"body":"what they're struggling with."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1459.69,"endTime":1461.87,"body":"They've managed to convince"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1459.69,"endTime":1461.87,"body":"people to, come on in, we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1461.87,"endTime":1463.94,"body":"running an Agile project,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1461.87,"endTime":1463.94,"body":"that all sounds good."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1464.2549999999999,"endTime":1466.295,"body":"But then, they're like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1464.2549999999999,"endTime":1466.295,"body":"you're the product owner now."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1466.325,"endTime":1466.865,"body":"And they're like..."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1467.145,"endTime":1468.115,"body":"What's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1467.145,"endTime":1468.115,"body":"that job mean?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1468.155,"endTime":1468.5049999999999,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1468.635,"endTime":1469.175,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1469.175,"endTime":1471.195,"body":"And they're not sort of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1469.175,"endTime":1471.195,"body":"delivering on expectations."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1471.395,"endTime":1472.935,"body":"There's no budget to train them."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1473.045,"endTime":1474.845,"body":"And they're just learning"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1473.045,"endTime":1474.845,"body":"the hard way as they go."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1474.845,"endTime":1476.785,"body":"And someone once said to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1474.845,"endTime":1476.785,"body":"me, and it stuck with me."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1476.785,"endTime":1479.875,"body":"They said, nobody trains a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1476.785,"endTime":1479.875,"body":"client to be a client, and,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1479.925,"endTime":1481.195,"body":"the question is well, why not?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1481.315,"endTime":1483.435,"body":"They should, you"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1481.315,"endTime":1483.435,"body":"do have to teach people how"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1483.435,"endTime":1484.635,"body":"to be good clients maybe."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1484.805,"endTime":1485.735,"body":"Yeah, that's fair."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1485.915,"endTime":1487.665,"body":"You mentioned about some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1485.915,"endTime":1487.665,"body":"agencies that had sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1487.665,"endTime":1489.095,"body":"reoriented around agile."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1489.665,"endTime":1491.785,"body":"Are any of them sending"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1489.665,"endTime":1491.785,"body":"their client to you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1492.055,"endTime":1493.035,"body":"actually to get trained?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1493.225,"endTime":1494.875,"body":"Yeah, I've"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1493.225,"endTime":1494.875,"body":"had that happen a lot."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1494.885,"endTime":1496.745,"body":"I've had a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1494.885,"endTime":1496.745,"body":"agency people come."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1496.745,"endTime":1499.795,"body":"I've had a lot of clients"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1496.745,"endTime":1499.795,"body":"of agency people get sent"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1499.805,"endTime":1502.075,"body":"to trainings because it"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1499.805,"endTime":1502.075,"body":"is a really hard thing."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1502.105,"endTime":1504.2749999999999,"body":"And one of the things that's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1502.105,"endTime":1504.2749999999999,"body":"tough in the agency is even"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1504.2749999999999,"endTime":1507.2649999999999,"body":"if you accept responsibility"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1504.2749999999999,"endTime":1507.2649999999999,"body":"for coaching and teaching"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1507.2649999999999,"endTime":1510.975,"body":"the client, that's not"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1507.2649999999999,"endTime":1510.975,"body":"your core skill, right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1510.985,"endTime":1513.975,"body":"I mean, for me, I've been"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1510.985,"endTime":1513.975,"body":"teaching project management"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1514.125,"endTime":1515.665,"body":"and agile for over 20 years."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1515.735,"endTime":1517.345,"body":"And the people I know"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1515.735,"endTime":1517.345,"body":"that have been coaching"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1517.345,"endTime":1518.825,"body":"that long it's their job."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1518.835,"endTime":1520.0149999999999,"body":"I mean, that's all they do."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1520.065,"endTime":1522.155,"body":"So they study it as a craft."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1522.405,"endTime":1526.285,"body":"If it's more like a hobby or"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1522.405,"endTime":1526.285,"body":"a thing you have to do, then"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1526.375,"endTime":1528.935,"body":"you're not going to have,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1526.375,"endTime":1528.935,"body":"and this isn't, I don't mean"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1528.935,"endTime":1531.485,"body":"it as like a slight towards"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1528.935,"endTime":1531.485,"body":"anybody, but you just don't"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1531.485,"endTime":1534.285,"body":"have the experience with it"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1531.485,"endTime":1534.285,"body":"to have the impact, maybe."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1534.615,"endTime":1536.595,"body":"And I'm not saying every"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1534.615,"endTime":1536.595,"body":"agency should go out and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1536.595,"endTime":1538.845,"body":"hire trainers, but I think"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1536.595,"endTime":1538.845,"body":"it's an accepted risk."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1539.2549999999999,"endTime":1542.445,"body":"You hardly understand something"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1539.2549999999999,"endTime":1542.445,"body":"and yet you're coaching it and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1542.445,"endTime":1543.535,"body":"teaching it to someone else."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1543.915,"endTime":1546.595,"body":"Which is okay, but you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1543.915,"endTime":1546.595,"body":"learning it together and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1546.595,"endTime":1548.875,"body":"you have to accept that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1546.595,"endTime":1548.875,"body":"with that comes risk and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1548.875,"endTime":1550.875,"body":"there's going to be mistakes"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1548.875,"endTime":1550.875,"body":"and misunderstandings and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1550.875,"endTime":1551.7649999999999,"body":"all that is part of it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1552.035,"endTime":1553.325,"body":"Which again,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1552.035,"endTime":1553.325,"body":"should be part of that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1553.345,"endTime":1554.475,"body":"upfront contract as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1554.475,"endTime":1556.7549999999999,"body":"I mean, I think, the way I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1554.475,"endTime":1556.7549999999999,"body":"seeing this story get painted"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1556.7549999999999,"endTime":1559.2749999999999,"body":"is actually what's happening"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1556.7549999999999,"endTime":1559.2749999999999,"body":"is agencies are like, we are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1559.2749999999999,"endTime":1562.135,"body":"experts at Agile and maybe we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1559.2749999999999,"endTime":1562.135,"body":"will train you on this thing."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1562.325,"endTime":1563.555,"body":"They took a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1562.325,"endTime":1563.555,"body":"two day class with me,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1563.555,"endTime":1564.285,"body":"now they're experts."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1564.285,"endTime":1564.535,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1564.84,"endTime":1565.56,"body":"That's what happens."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1565.71,"endTime":1567.27,"body":"And that's gonna,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1565.71,"endTime":1567.27,"body":"everything's gonna go perfectly,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1567.27,"endTime":1569.8899999999999,"body":"which again is not managing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1567.27,"endTime":1569.8899999999999,"body":"the expectation for the team,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1569.8899999999999,"endTime":1572.53,"body":"for the client, for the agency"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1569.8899999999999,"endTime":1572.53,"body":"at all, because actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1572.53,"endTime":1573.83,"body":"this is all about learning."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1573.83,"endTime":1576.33,"body":"This is all about things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1573.83,"endTime":1576.33,"body":"maybe not going that smoothly."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1576.51,"endTime":1579.04,"body":"And if you're, utopia"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1576.51,"endTime":1579.04,"body":"is that everything goes,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1579.34,"endTime":1581.35,"body":"super smoothly and no"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1579.34,"endTime":1581.35,"body":"problems ever come up ever."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1581.72,"endTime":1582.62,"body":"Probably not going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1581.72,"endTime":1582.62,"body":"to reach that."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1582.7,"endTime":1585.1499999999999,"body":"It would be like if"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1582.7,"endTime":1585.1499999999999,"body":"I read a book about how to fly"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1585.16,"endTime":1587.58,"body":"planes and watch some YouTube"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1585.16,"endTime":1587.58,"body":"videos about it, and then I"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1587.6,"endTime":1588.91,"body":"taught you how to fly planes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1589.28,"endTime":1590.91,"body":"Or like, why"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1589.28,"endTime":1590.91,"body":"is this plane crashing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1590.91,"endTime":1591.8,"body":"sprint over sprint?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1592.52,"endTime":1593.5,"body":"I don't understand."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1593.5,"endTime":1595.36,"body":"You read the book,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1593.5,"endTime":1595.36,"body":"got certified."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1595.46,"endTime":1597.98,"body":"So it takes a lot of experience"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1595.46,"endTime":1597.98,"body":"and a lot of failure to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1597.98,"endTime":1598.73,"body":"get good at this stuff."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1598.78,"endTime":1601.29,"body":"And that's another thing is"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1598.78,"endTime":1601.29,"body":"the nature of the, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1601.29,"endTime":1604.31,"body":"agencies have relationships with"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1601.29,"endTime":1604.31,"body":"clients that are not long term."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1604.32,"endTime":1606.09,"body":"You have short term gigs,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1604.32,"endTime":1606.09,"body":"apps you're building"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1606.09,"endTime":1607.54,"body":"or whatever, campaigns."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1607.6499999999999,"endTime":1610.28,"body":"If you've got a client that's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1607.6499999999999,"endTime":1610.28,"body":"on retainer, I think that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1610.28,"endTime":1613.32,"body":"might be a better fit for this"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1610.28,"endTime":1613.32,"body":"kind of work where you know"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1613.32,"endTime":1615.6,"body":"that you've got this long term"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1613.32,"endTime":1615.6,"body":"relationship, you're going to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1615.6,"endTime":1618.58,"body":"be together and you can enter it"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1615.6,"endTime":1618.58,"body":"in saying, Hey, let's try this."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1618.6399999999999,"endTime":1620.8899999999999,"body":"And maybe some, maybe"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1618.6399999999999,"endTime":1620.8899999999999,"body":"scrum will work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1620.8899999999999,"endTime":1621.47,"body":"Maybe it won't."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1621.52,"endTime":1623.6,"body":"One of the problems with"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1621.52,"endTime":1623.6,"body":"scrum for an agency is"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1623.6,"endTime":1625.83,"body":"the two week model and the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1623.6,"endTime":1625.83,"body":"rules and things like that."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1625.97,"endTime":1627.3899999999999,"body":"Maybe Kanban is a better fit."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1627.6499999999999,"endTime":1630.3,"body":"But the agencies that can't"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1627.6499999999999,"endTime":1630.3,"body":"get scrum to work that want"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1630.3,"endTime":1633.02,"body":"to switch to a scaling model,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1630.3,"endTime":1633.02,"body":"that's not a good idea."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1633.41,"endTime":1634.33,"body":"It's not your problem."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1634.34,"endTime":1635.6,"body":"Scaling is not your problem."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1635.77,"endTime":1637.3,"body":"Yeah, let's make"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1635.77,"endTime":1637.3,"body":"the problem even bigger."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1637.87,"endTime":1639.82,"body":"It's I can't"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1637.87,"endTime":1639.82,"body":"crawl, where's the motorcycle?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1639.85,"endTime":1640.17,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1640.26,"endTime":1640.56,"body":"Excellent."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1640.62,"endTime":1641.09,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1641.09,"endTime":1643.0,"body":"And I think the same is also"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1641.09,"endTime":1643.0,"body":"true sometimes of project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1643.0,"endTime":1645.74,"body":"teams because in agencies,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1643.0,"endTime":1645.74,"body":"the way resourcing is done,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1646.02,"endTime":1647.6,"body":"heck, some people are, they're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1646.02,"endTime":1647.6,"body":"swapping, they're changing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1647.6,"endTime":1648.62,"body":"the team sprint over sprint."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1648.6399999999999,"endTime":1651.46,"body":"Like that team is not learning"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1648.6399999999999,"endTime":1651.46,"body":"together because they're just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1651.46,"endTime":1654.08,"body":"moving all over the place,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1651.46,"endTime":1654.08,"body":"flying from project to project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1654.17,"endTime":1657.29,"body":"wherever they fit, but not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1654.17,"endTime":1657.29,"body":"necessarily, being able to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1657.465,"endTime":1658.545,"body":"learn as a team together."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1658.555,"endTime":1661.095,"body":"Do you have, do you encounter"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1658.555,"endTime":1661.095,"body":"a lot of scenarios where like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1661.2649999999999,"endTime":1663.095,"body":"agencies are like, no, we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1661.2649999999999,"endTime":1663.095,"body":"only do dedicated teams now."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1663.2749999999999,"endTime":1665.175,"body":"Well, so"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1663.2749999999999,"endTime":1665.175,"body":"there's some options here."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1665.175,"endTime":1667.365,"body":"Like a lot of organizations"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1665.175,"endTime":1667.365,"body":"are switching from being"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1667.365,"endTime":1670.175,"body":"project focused and product"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1667.365,"endTime":1670.175,"body":"focused, so they fund teams."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1670.385,"endTime":1673.0249999999999,"body":"And so my recommendation to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1670.385,"endTime":1673.0249999999999,"body":"agencies is if you're not going"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1673.0249999999999,"endTime":1675.79,"body":"to go like all in on Scrum"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1673.0249999999999,"endTime":1675.79,"body":"or something like that, maybe"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1675.79,"endTime":1678.19,"body":"your teams do have to work"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1675.79,"endTime":1678.19,"body":"on multiple projects at once."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1678.23,"endTime":1679.8999999999999,"body":"Maybe that's just the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1678.23,"endTime":1679.8999999999999,"body":"reality of your business."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1679.94,"endTime":1682.58,"body":"But can you fund"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1679.94,"endTime":1682.58,"body":"stable teams, right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1682.62,"endTime":1684.8999999999999,"body":"If I have a stable team that's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1682.62,"endTime":1684.8999999999999,"body":"working on seven different"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1684.8999999999999,"endTime":1687.77,"body":"projects, at least they can have"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1684.8999999999999,"endTime":1687.77,"body":"one backlog and they can develop"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1687.81,"endTime":1690.52,"body":"the communication patterns and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1687.81,"endTime":1690.52,"body":"get to a high performing state."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1690.83,"endTime":1693.51,"body":"If you can't do that,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1690.83,"endTime":1693.51,"body":"I don't think Scrum is"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1693.51,"endTime":1694.1399999999999,"body":"going to work for you."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1694.33,"endTime":1697.45,"body":"I would do your Waterfall,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1694.33,"endTime":1697.45,"body":"Agile, hybrid or"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1697.45,"endTime":1698.48,"body":"whatever you're doing."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1698.7749999999999,"endTime":1700.825,"body":"But you also don't have"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1698.7749999999999,"endTime":1700.825,"body":"to go all the way in on"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1700.825,"endTime":1701.695,"body":"something like scrum."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1701.895,"endTime":1703.635,"body":"You could take"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1701.895,"endTime":1703.635,"body":"elements of it, right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1703.675,"endTime":1705.405,"body":"And yeah, you're not going"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1703.675,"endTime":1705.405,"body":"to be doing scrum like"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1705.405,"endTime":1707.985,"body":"Ken Schwaber wouldn't give"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1705.405,"endTime":1707.985,"body":"you like the thumbs up on"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1707.985,"endTime":1709.705,"body":"that, but who cares, right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1709.865,"endTime":1711.875,"body":"They're just tools, use"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1709.865,"endTime":1711.875,"body":"them to your benefit."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1711.875,"endTime":1714.425,"body":"If it helps you to have a daily"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1711.875,"endTime":1714.425,"body":"scrum, have a daily scrum."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1714.7649999999999,"endTime":1716.945,"body":"But don't have it in"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1714.7649999999999,"endTime":1716.945,"body":"Slack, have it in person."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1717.195,"endTime":1718.395,"body":"Real time conversation."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1718.665,"endTime":1722.725,"body":"I think a lot of places though"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1718.665,"endTime":1722.725,"body":"sidestep some of the practices"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1722.735,"endTime":1724.095,"body":"without trying them first."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1724.105,"endTime":1726.175,"body":"They just say oh, we're just not"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1724.105,"endTime":1726.175,"body":"going to have a sprint review."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1726.455,"endTime":1728.565,"body":"Or our sprint review"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1726.455,"endTime":1728.565,"body":"is when this team shows"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1728.575,"endTime":1730.305,"body":"work to that team, which"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1728.575,"endTime":1730.305,"body":"is not a sprint review."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1730.885,"endTime":1733.7649999999999,"body":"I think it's important to try"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1730.885,"endTime":1733.7649999999999,"body":"the things with discipline"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1733.7749999999999,"endTime":1736.225,"body":"first and figure out what"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1733.7749999999999,"endTime":1736.225,"body":"works and what doesn't."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1736.575,"endTime":1739.495,"body":"And then make changes, but don't"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1736.575,"endTime":1739.495,"body":"just out of the gate decide,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1739.805,"endTime":1743.455,"body":"like I'm on a keto diet that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1739.805,"endTime":1743.455,"body":"includes Taco Bell because"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1743.455,"endTime":1744.805,"body":"it's not going to work, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1744.925,"endTime":1745.195,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1745.425,"endTime":1745.895,"body":"Test it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1745.925,"endTime":1747.655,"body":"It might not work for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1745.925,"endTime":1747.655,"body":"your organization."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1747.705,"endTime":1750.745,"body":"It's okay if you're not using a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1747.705,"endTime":1750.745,"body":"hundred percent of the things."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1750.925,"endTime":1753.235,"body":"And if it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1750.925,"endTime":1753.235,"body":"work, fine, you tested it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1753.235,"endTime":1753.895,"body":"It doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1753.945,"endTime":1754.7749999999999,"body":"Do something else."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1754.855,"endTime":1755.065,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1755.115,"endTime":1755.925,"body":"And you learned, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1755.925,"endTime":1758.305,"body":"And back to your point about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1755.925,"endTime":1758.305,"body":"this is all about learning."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1758.625,"endTime":1759.115,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1759.315,"endTime":1761.875,"body":"And for an agency,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1759.315,"endTime":1761.875,"body":"like when I started doing"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1761.875,"endTime":1763.885,"body":"this stuff and we worked all"},{"speaker":"Dave 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craft, they'll"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1775.295,"endTime":1778.05,"body":"stick around and they'll"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1778.05,"endTime":1779.23,"body":"put up with a lot of hassle."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1779.5,"endTime":1781.68,"body":"If you give them an environment"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1779.5,"endTime":1781.68,"body":"where they can't do that and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1781.68,"endTime":1784.07,"body":"you tell them to do a process"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1781.68,"endTime":1784.07,"body":"they can't use because your"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1784.1499999999999,"endTime":1786.34,"body":"organizational structure"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1784.1499999999999,"endTime":1786.34,"body":"won't allow it, they're"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1786.34,"endTime":1787.18,"body":"not going to stay around."},{"speaker":"Galen 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into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1798.6399999999999,"endTime":1799.61,"body":"something and following it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1799.68,"endTime":1800.46,"body":"It's about that trust."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1800.67,"endTime":1802.33,"body":"It's about being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1800.67,"endTime":1802.33,"body":"able to collaborate."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1802.34,"endTime":1804.11,"body":"It's about being able"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1802.34,"endTime":1804.11,"body":"to learn together."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1804.18,"endTime":1807.73,"body":"All the finer points of did"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1804.18,"endTime":1807.73,"body":"you incorporate, this one"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1807.74,"endTime":1811.74,"body":"little idea clause concept"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1807.74,"endTime":1811.74,"body":"framework in your approach?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1811.74,"endTime":1812.8999999999999,"body":"And if you didn't,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1811.74,"endTime":1812.8999999999999,"body":"then you suck."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1813.24,"endTime":1815.3,"body":"It's actually more about,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1813.24,"endTime":1815.3,"body":"are we getting better at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1815.3,"endTime":1816.85,"body":"delivering work or not?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1817.0,"endTime":1820.0,"body":"And if I'm a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1817.0,"endTime":1820.0,"body":"client and my choices are an"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1820.0,"endTime":1822.52,"body":"agency that's going to give"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1820.0,"endTime":1822.52,"body":"me a very detailed, very"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1822.52,"endTime":1825.42,"body":"specific statement of work"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1822.52,"endTime":1825.42,"body":"that runs like a salt mine."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1825.845,"endTime":1828.205,"body":"Or a place where they're"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1825.845,"endTime":1828.205,"body":"like, yeah, we think it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1828.245,"endTime":1830.715,"body":"this, but, and I look at the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1828.245,"endTime":1830.715,"body":"people working and they're"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1830.715,"endTime":1833.075,"body":"all excited and passionate"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1830.715,"endTime":1833.075,"body":"and committed to doing,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1833.355,"endTime":1834.605,"body":"I'll hire in those people."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1834.815,"endTime":1837.045,"body":"Because they're going to get"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1834.815,"endTime":1837.045,"body":"as engaged as I am and we're"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1837.045,"endTime":1838.2749999999999,"body":"going to figure it out together."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1838.58,"endTime":1842.42,"body":"Back, Frederick Taylor's time,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1838.58,"endTime":1842.42,"body":"like that salt mine model that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1842.42,"endTime":1844.6499999999999,"body":"worked in a factory where you"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1842.42,"endTime":1844.6499999999999,"body":"were building machine parts,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1844.6499999999999,"endTime":1845.5,"body":"but we're not doing that."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1845.5,"endTime":1846.35,"body":"This is knowledge work."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1846.43,"endTime":1847.1299999999999,"body":"It's very different."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1847.34,"endTime":1848.66,"body":"No, it's"},{"speaker":"Galen 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it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1872.53,"endTime":1873.91,"body":"Telling about it is that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1872.53,"endTime":1873.91,"body":"we're gonna dig into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1873.91,"endTime":1875.42,"body":"the problem together"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1873.91,"endTime":1875.42,"body":"because we care about it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1875.44,"endTime":1876.0,"body":"We love it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1876.11,"endTime":1878.1399999999999,"body":"We're great at what we do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1876.11,"endTime":1878.1399999999999,"body":"and we're gonna work at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1878.1399999999999,"endTime":1880.31,"body":"this together and it's gonna"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1878.1399999999999,"endTime":1880.31,"body":"be, it's gonna be great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1880.3899999999999,"endTime":1882.0,"body":"You've got a team now,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1880.3899999999999,"endTime":1882.0,"body":"not just a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1882.0,"endTime":1883.47,"body":"people making excuses."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1883.75,"endTime":1886.05,"body":"And we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1883.75,"endTime":1886.05,"body":"support each other, help"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1886.05,"endTime":1887.22,"body":"each other rise together."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1887.23,"endTime":1888.1499999999999,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1888.41,"endTime":1888.8799999999999,"body":"Love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1889.2,"endTime":1892.075,"body":"One thing I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1889.2,"endTime":1892.075,"body":"swing back to is speed."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1892.315,"endTime":1894.625,"body":"Because we've been talking"},{"speaker":"Galen 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up."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1906.6499999999999,"endTime":1908.58,"body":"Like we're still talking about,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1906.6499999999999,"endTime":1908.58,"body":"like you mentioned, two week"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1908.58,"endTime":1909.99,"body":"sprints in a scrum model."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1910.07,"endTime":1912.25,"body":"We're talking about daily"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1910.07,"endTime":1912.25,"body":"standouts and like customer"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1912.25,"endTime":1913.28,"body":"has to be involved."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1913.3799999999999,"endTime":1914.97,"body":"They're making"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1913.3799999999999,"endTime":1914.97,"body":"decisions on the fly."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1915.08,"endTime":1917.02,"body":"They're being expected as a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1915.08,"endTime":1917.02,"body":"product owner to be able to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1917.02,"endTime":1920.1399999999999,"body":"just make an exact decision"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1917.02,"endTime":1920.1399999999999,"body":"in a meeting versus running"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1920.1399999999999,"endTime":1922.349,"body":"it up the chain and maybe it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1920.1399999999999,"endTime":1922.349,"body":"takes three or four weeks."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1922.349,"endTime":1926.47,"body":"Like how can agencies sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1922.349,"endTime":1926.47,"body":"either help their clients work"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1926.47,"endTime":1930.57,"body":"at this speed or maybe even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1926.47,"endTime":1930.57,"body":"just like vet opportunities that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1930.7,"endTime":1933.8899999999999,"body":"only meet a certain criteria"},{"speaker":"Galen 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them."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1945.7,"endTime":1946.1399999999999,"body":"Why?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1946.1499999999999,"endTime":1948.59,"body":"I mean, anything like"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1946.1499999999999,"endTime":1948.59,"body":"that, the question is why?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1948.59,"endTime":1950.92,"body":"So maybe that was an"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1948.59,"endTime":1950.92,"body":"unrealistic expectation."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1951.229,"endTime":1952.67,"body":"What would be realistic?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1952.86,"endTime":1954.95,"body":"Any sprint, there's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1952.86,"endTime":1954.95,"body":"two experiments."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1955.11,"endTime":1956.86,"body":"How do we deliver"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":1955.11,"endTime":1956.86,"body":"value for the customer?"},{"speaker":"Dave 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Prior","startTime":1997.404,"endTime":1999.355,"body":"Scrum, but again, who cares?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1999.5049999999999,"endTime":2001.194,"body":"What I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1999.5049999999999,"endTime":2001.194,"body":"gathering from this is,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2001.295,"endTime":2002.5049999999999,"body":"are we doing Agile right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2002.5049999999999,"endTime":2002.7649999999999,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2003.205,"endTime":2004.615,"body":"You're"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2003.205,"endTime":2004.615,"body":"all doing it right."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2004.914,"endTime":2005.494,"body":"Okay?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2005.695,"endTime":2008.195,"body":"As long as you're having"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2005.695,"endTime":2008.195,"body":"retrospectives and not trying to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2008.195,"endTime":2010.445,"body":"have your daily Scrum on Slack,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2008.195,"endTime":2010.445,"body":"you're all doing it right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2010.605,"endTime":2012.955,"body":"I'm going to land"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2010.605,"endTime":2012.955,"body":"out with a curveball question."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2013.22,"endTime":2014.34,"body":"My curveball question is this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2014.42,"endTime":2016.3799999999999,"body":"We've been talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2014.42,"endTime":2016.3799999999999,"body":"about this notion of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2016.3799999999999,"endTime":2017.61,"body":"these are tools, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2017.6299999999999,"endTime":2018.62,"body":"Agile is a tool."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2018.66,"endTime":2020.79,"body":"Some projects, maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2018.66,"endTime":2020.79,"body":"Agile won't work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2020.79,"endTime":2022.99,"body":"Some organizations,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2020.79,"endTime":2022.99,"body":"maybe Agile won't work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2023.19,"endTime":2025.099,"body":"But then we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2023.19,"endTime":2025.099,"body":"this notion of sometimes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2025.099,"endTime":2027.1589999999999,"body":"we have to change an entire"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2025.099,"endTime":2027.1589999999999,"body":"organization's culture."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2027.189,"endTime":2029.369,"body":"So, you're an agency and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2027.189,"endTime":2029.369,"body":"okay, we have to double down."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2029.579,"endTime":2031.4189999999999,"body":"And maybe you're not saying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2029.579,"endTime":2031.4189999999999,"body":"that every agency needs"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2031.4189999999999,"endTime":2034.299,"body":"to, reorient and reorg"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2031.4189999999999,"endTime":2034.299,"body":"around scrum every time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2034.524,"endTime":2036.474,"body":"But they are making"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2034.524,"endTime":2036.474,"body":"company wide changes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2036.504,"endTime":2039.424,"body":"Meanwhile, we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2036.504,"endTime":2039.424,"body":"clients who if they want to keep"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2039.424,"endTime":2042.134,"body":"pace like that organizational"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2039.424,"endTime":2042.134,"body":"culture on the client side needs"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2042.134,"endTime":2045.444,"body":"to be a bit more nimble, a bit"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2042.134,"endTime":2045.444,"body":"more agile as well, or we need"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2045.574,"endTime":2047.064,"body":"to make accommodations for it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2047.3039999999999,"endTime":2050.634,"body":"But is this just a question"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2047.3039999999999,"endTime":2050.634,"body":"of everyone getting more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2050.654,"endTime":2053.704,"body":"agile, like organizations"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2050.654,"endTime":2053.704,"body":"and their organizational"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2053.734,"endTime":2054.844,"body":"culture being more agile?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2055.364,"endTime":2057.804,"body":"Or is there still room in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2055.364,"endTime":2057.804,"body":"it for us to be like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2057.804,"endTime":2059.634,"body":"well, I'm going to pick up my"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2057.804,"endTime":2059.634,"body":"waterfall tool for this one."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2059.764,"endTime":2060.614,"body":"Does that clash?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2060.634,"endTime":2063.8140000000003,"body":"Does it clash to say, I have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2060.634,"endTime":2063.8140000000003,"body":"two hammers, I have an agile"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2063.824,"endTime":2066.284,"body":"hammer and a Waterfall hammer,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2063.824,"endTime":2066.284,"body":"and sometimes I use both?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2066.534,"endTime":2068.704,"body":"Does that clash with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2066.534,"endTime":2068.704,"body":"the notion of, we have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2068.704,"endTime":2069.884,"body":"an agile culture here?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2070.254,"endTime":2073.7540000000004,"body":"So, I would say,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2070.254,"endTime":2073.7540000000004,"body":"trying to have an agile culture"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2073.784,"endTime":2075.8590000000004,"body":"is kind of a fool's error."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2075.949,"endTime":2078.9990000000003,"body":"I would go after a humane"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2075.949,"endTime":2078.9990000000003,"body":"culture that allows"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2079.009,"endTime":2081.0690000000004,"body":"people to thrive and"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2079.009,"endTime":2081.0690000000004,"body":"deliver value together."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2081.2490000000003,"endTime":2084.5690000000004,"body":"When I am doing Agile"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2081.2490000000003,"endTime":2084.5690000000004,"body":"projects, so I used to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2084.5690000000004,"endTime":2085.8790000000004,"body":"teach PMP certification."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2085.8790000000004,"endTime":2087.309,"body":"I have a master's degree"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2085.8790000000004,"endTime":2087.309,"body":"in project management,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2087.3190000000004,"endTime":2087.8390000000004,"body":"all that stuff."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2087.9990000000003,"endTime":2091.3940000000002,"body":"I have a traditional risk"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2087.9990000000003,"endTime":2091.3940000000002,"body":"register that I use on all"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2091.3940000000002,"endTime":2095.384,"body":"my agile projects, because"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2091.3940000000002,"endTime":2095.384,"body":"it's a really helpful tool"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2095.384,"endTime":2097.924,"body":"for stakeholders to be able"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2095.384,"endTime":2097.924,"body":"to vomit their fears into"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2097.924,"endTime":2098.8540000000003,"body":"and I can show it to them."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2098.994,"endTime":2101.8540000000003,"body":"And I think part of being a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2098.994,"endTime":2101.8540000000003,"body":"good project manager is you"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2101.8540000000003,"endTime":2102.904,"body":"have to play to the crowd."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2102.914,"endTime":2106.154,"body":"If your customers are all"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2102.914,"endTime":2106.154,"body":"Waterfall, they only know how"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2106.154,"endTime":2108.594,"body":"to look at Waterfall stuff,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2106.154,"endTime":2108.594,"body":"so don't try to force feed"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2108.614,"endTime":2110.114,"body":"them a bunch of burndown"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2108.614,"endTime":2110.114,"body":"charts because they don't"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2110.114,"endTime":2110.884,"body":"know what to do with them."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2111.2540000000004,"endTime":2114.9440000000004,"body":"I think you implement whatever"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2111.2540000000004,"endTime":2114.9440000000004,"body":"tools you need from whatever"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2114.9440000000004,"endTime":2117.275,"body":"practice you need to deliver"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2114.9440000000004,"endTime":2117.275,"body":"value for the customer."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2117.275,"endTime":2120.1240000000003,"body":"If you make that the goal, a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2117.275,"endTime":2120.1240000000003,"body":"humane environment that delivers"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2120.125,"endTime":2123.2850000000003,"body":"value for a customer, then I"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2120.125,"endTime":2123.2850000000003,"body":"would let that be the guide."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2123.645,"endTime":2126.0550000000003,"body":"And not worry about, everybody's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2123.645,"endTime":2126.0550000000003,"body":"too hung up on whether"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2126.0550000000003,"endTime":2127.445,"body":"it's agile enough or not."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2127.795,"endTime":2129.585,"body":"No one will ever"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2127.795,"endTime":2129.585,"body":"be agile enough."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2129.835,"endTime":2130.275,"body":"Ever."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2130.5350000000003,"endTime":2133.1850000000004,"body":"And then if you are, somebody's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2130.5350000000003,"endTime":2133.1850000000004,"body":"I'm agile, then you're done."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2133.215,"endTime":2135.1240000000003,"body":"The second you said that,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2133.215,"endTime":2135.1240000000003,"body":"you stop being agile."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2135.125,"endTime":2137.3050000000003,"body":"Because even the people"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2135.125,"endTime":2137.3050000000003,"body":"that created this stuff"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2137.3050000000003,"endTime":2138.4640000000004,"body":"are still figuring it out."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2138.9100000000003,"endTime":2140.0400000000004,"body":"I mean, that's the beauty of it."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2140.0400000000004,"endTime":2142.53,"body":"It's an imperfect, unfinished"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2140.0400000000004,"endTime":2142.53,"body":"model that we all get"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2142.5400000000004,"endTime":2143.88,"body":"to write our part of."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2144.3700000000003,"endTime":2145.84,"body":"So you can affect change."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2146.11,"endTime":2148.4500000000003,"body":"And I'm sure there's people"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2146.11,"endTime":2148.4500000000003,"body":"working on stuff in agencies"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2148.4500000000003,"endTime":2150.8790000000004,"body":"now that will change the"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2148.4500000000003,"endTime":2150.8790000000004,"body":"way agencies adopt Agile."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2150.8790000000004,"endTime":2154.4300000000003,"body":"And in the best possible world,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2150.8790000000004,"endTime":2154.4300000000003,"body":"there will be a version that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2154.4300000000003,"endTime":2156.48,"body":"emerges for digital agencies."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2156.76,"endTime":2157.59,"body":"Man, I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2157.7400000000002,"endTime":2159.63,"body":"And I wish more people would"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2157.7400000000002,"endTime":2159.63,"body":"say it, because that was"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2159.63,"endTime":2160.98,"body":"very refreshing to hear."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2161.0800000000004,"endTime":2162.9,"body":"Hey, this notion"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2161.0800000000004,"endTime":2162.9,"body":"that, keep it human."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2163.0400000000004,"endTime":2164.1800000000003,"body":"What is this all about, really?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2164.1800000000003,"endTime":2166.32,"body":"It's not about using"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2164.1800000000003,"endTime":2166.32,"body":"every tool in the toolkit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2166.44,"endTime":2167.94,"body":"I had that, people come"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2166.44,"endTime":2167.94,"body":"to me with that problem"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2167.94,"endTime":2169.2000000000003,"body":"on the PMI side as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2169.2000000000003,"endTime":2170.78,"body":"They're like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2169.2000000000003,"endTime":2170.78,"body":"I just learned all of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2170.78,"endTime":2171.969,"body":"these processes, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2172.0400000000004,"endTime":2173.73,"body":"I'm trying to use them all"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2172.0400000000004,"endTime":2173.73,"body":"in my project, and it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2173.73,"endTime":2174.3900000000003,"body":"just not working anyway."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2174.75,"endTime":2175.38,"body":"I did that."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2175.6400000000003,"endTime":2178.94,"body":"I got my PMP, I implemented"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2175.6400000000003,"endTime":2178.94,"body":"the PMBOK front to back."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2179.175,"endTime":2181.835,"body":"At a company, it lasted three"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2179.175,"endTime":2181.835,"body":"weeks and it took two years"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2181.835,"endTime":2183.025,"body":"to recover my credibility."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2183.1650000000004,"endTime":2183.5550000000003,"body":"Oh, wow."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2183.565,"endTime":2183.795,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2183.795,"endTime":2183.985,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2184.005,"endTime":2184.335,"body":"Fair."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2184.485,"endTime":2185.905,"body":"Everyone"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2184.485,"endTime":2185.905,"body":"was like, screw that."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2185.905,"endTime":2187.7250000000004,"body":"We're not doing all"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2185.905,"endTime":2187.7250000000004,"body":"these stupid forms."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2188.1650000000004,"endTime":2189.295,"body":"That's a toolbox too."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2189.295,"endTime":2191.3050000000003,"body":"You're not supposed to use"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2189.295,"endTime":2191.3050000000003,"body":"everything in the PMBOK."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2191.445,"endTime":2191.9950000000003,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2191.9950000000003,"endTime":2192.1850000000004,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2192.215,"endTime":2194.5040000000004,"body":"And same with agile and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2192.215,"endTime":2194.5040000000004,"body":"that should be okay."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2194.505,"endTime":2197.9150000000004,"body":"And then the project manager's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2194.505,"endTime":2197.9150000000004,"body":"role becomes that orchestrator"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2197.9550000000004,"endTime":2201.3650000000002,"body":"of the collaboration, a human"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2197.9550000000004,"endTime":2201.3650000000002,"body":"collaboration of how can we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2201.3650000000002,"endTime":2204.335,"body":"get good work done, deliver"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2201.3650000000002,"endTime":2204.335,"body":"value to the customer, learn"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2204.3450000000003,"endTime":2206.574,"body":"from one another along the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2204.3450000000003,"endTime":2206.574,"body":"way and get better at it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2206.755,"endTime":2209.23,"body":"And whatever tools will"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2206.755,"endTime":2209.23,"body":"work for that, those are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2209.23,"endTime":2210.0600000000004,"body":"the ones that we should use."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2210.0600000000004,"endTime":2211.48,"body":"If they don't work,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2210.0600000000004,"endTime":2211.48,"body":"we'll stop using them."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2212.1800000000003,"endTime":2213.05,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2213.1800000000003,"endTime":2215.13,"body":"That is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2213.1800000000003,"endTime":2215.13,"body":"incredibly refreshing to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2215.13,"endTime":2217.82,"body":"hear for me and hopefully"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2215.13,"endTime":2217.82,"body":"for the listeners as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2217.94,"endTime":2218.909,"body":"I know it's a huge struggle."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2218.98,"endTime":2220.6200000000003,"body":"So there's a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2218.98,"endTime":2220.6200000000003,"body":"book called The Collaboration"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2220.6200000000003,"endTime":2223.27,"body":"Equation by Jim Benson that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2220.6200000000003,"endTime":2223.27,"body":"has a lot of really good stuff"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2223.27,"endTime":2224.5800000000004,"body":"about creating a mean workplace."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2225.0400000000004,"endTime":2228.1000000000004,"body":"He's the guy that invented"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2225.0400000000004,"endTime":2228.1000000000004,"body":"Personal Kanban and he did that"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2228.1000000000004,"endTime":2231.0800000000004,"body":"with Tonianne DeMaria and Lean"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2228.1000000000004,"endTime":2231.0800000000004,"body":"Coffee with Jeremy Lightsmith."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2231.3500000000004,"endTime":2232.2400000000002,"body":"Really good stuff in there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2232.3700000000003,"endTime":2232.88,"body":"Very cool."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2233.0600000000004,"endTime":2234.13,"body":"I'm gonna check"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2233.0600000000004,"endTime":2234.13,"body":"that out as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2234.23,"endTime":2235.9700000000003,"body":"I'll leave that link in the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2234.23,"endTime":2235.9700000000003,"body":"show notes as well so people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2235.9700000000003,"endTime":2236.8590000000004,"body":"can follow that through."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2237.0400000000004,"endTime":2240.0400000000004,"body":"Even just my titles alone,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2237.0400000000004,"endTime":2240.0400000000004,"body":"that all sounds super cool."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2240.69,"endTime":2241.5800000000004,"body":"It's a"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2240.69,"endTime":2241.5800000000004,"body":"really good book."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2241.6800000000003,"endTime":2242.789,"body":"Dave, thank"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2241.6800000000003,"endTime":2242.789,"body":"you so much for hanging"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2242.789,"endTime":2243.299,"body":"out with us today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2243.299,"endTime":2244.7400000000002,"body":"It's been such an honor"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2243.299,"endTime":2244.7400000000002,"body":"having you on the show."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2244.9700000000003,"endTime":2246.8900000000003,"body":"Actually, if people want to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2244.9700000000003,"endTime":2246.8900000000003,"body":"learn more about what you do,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2246.92,"endTime":2248.82,"body":"because I know we didn't really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2246.92,"endTime":2248.82,"body":"get into your background."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2249.0,"endTime":2251.3,"body":"You're a legend in some of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2249.0,"endTime":2251.3,"body":"the circles I travel in."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2251.32,"endTime":2252.38,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2251.32,"endTime":2252.38,"body":"a little extreme."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2252.88,"endTime":2255.77,"body":"Well, there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2252.88,"endTime":2255.77,"body":"is a fan base that I talk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2255.77,"endTime":2257.0600000000004,"body":"to that love what you do."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2257.3,"endTime":2259.15,"body":"I think especially because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2257.3,"endTime":2259.15,"body":"of the messages that you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2259.1600000000003,"endTime":2261.5400000000004,"body":"sending on this that are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2259.1600000000003,"endTime":2261.5400000000004,"body":"comforting, that are relieving,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2261.7000000000003,"endTime":2264.529,"body":"that people don't have to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2261.7000000000003,"endTime":2264.529,"body":"implement perfect agile."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2264.53,"endTime":2265.65,"body":"We might not even get there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2265.76,"endTime":2267.13,"body":"That shouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2265.76,"endTime":2267.13,"body":"the point anyways."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2267.3,"endTime":2268.78,"body":"I think that message"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2267.3,"endTime":2268.78,"body":"has been landing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2268.84,"endTime":2271.23,"body":"And for folks who want to learn"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2268.84,"endTime":2271.23,"body":"more about that, how can they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2271.23,"endTime":2272.8,"body":"find out more about what you do?"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2273.0150000000003,"endTime":2275.5150000000003,"body":"They could"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2273.0150000000003,"endTime":2275.5150000000003,"body":"go to drunkenpmradio.com."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2275.5350000000003,"endTime":2276.8250000000003,"body":"I do a podcast on there."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2276.9950000000003,"endTime":2278.655,"body":"They can go to"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2276.9950000000003,"endTime":2278.655,"body":"LeadingAgile, I'm on there."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2278.855,"endTime":2281.425,"body":"Also LinkedIn is probably"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2278.855,"endTime":2281.425,"body":"the easiest way because I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2281.425,"endTime":2283.645,"body":"not really using the other"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2281.425,"endTime":2283.645,"body":"social media tools anymore"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2283.645,"endTime":2285.5750000000003,"body":"until we figure out which"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2283.645,"endTime":2285.5750000000003,"body":"ones we're supposed to use."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2285.7450000000003,"endTime":2285.9150000000004,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2285.9150000000004,"endTime":2287.5040000000004,"body":"It's in a state of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2285.9150000000004,"endTime":2287.5040000000004,"body":"tumult now, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2288.424,"endTime":2289.7450000000003,"body":"LinkedIn is a stable one."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2289.9350000000004,"endTime":2290.335,"body":"I hear it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2290.375,"endTime":2292.1150000000002,"body":"I'll include all those"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2290.375,"endTime":2292.1150000000002,"body":"links in the show notes,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2292.1850000000004,"endTime":2293.585,"body":"and thank you again."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2293.795,"endTime":2294.645,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2293.795,"endTime":2294.645,"body":"thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2294.645,"endTime":2295.385,"body":"This was really fun."},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2295.385,"endTime":2297.1650000000004,"body":"I never get interviewed,"},{"speaker":"Dave Prior","startTime":2295.385,"endTime":2297.1650000000004,"body":"so this was a blast."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2297.3450000000003,"endTime":2298.025,"body":"Yeah, there you go."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2298.0350000000003,"endTime":2298.6040000000003,"body":"Well, you know what?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2298.625,"endTime":2299.395,"body":"We might have you back."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2299.4440000000004,"endTime":2301.9150000000004,"body":"This is such a deep topic, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2299.4440000000004,"endTime":2301.9150000000004,"body":"I know that folks listening"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2301.9840000000004,"endTime":2304.945,"body":"will have more questions for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2301.9840000000004,"endTime":2304.945,"body":"us as they listen as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2305.0350000000003,"endTime":2306.3450000000003,"body":"And yeah, we'd love"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2305.0350000000003,"endTime":2306.3450000000003,"body":"to have you back."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2307.3450000000003,"endTime":2308.425,"body":"All right, folks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2307.3450000000003,"endTime":2308.425,"body":"there you have it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2308.5640000000003,"endTime":2310.755,"body":"As always, if you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2308.5640000000003,"endTime":2310.755,"body":"join the conversation with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2310.755,"endTime":2313.5800000000004,"body":"over 1,000 like minded project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2310.755,"endTime":2313.5800000000004,"body":"management champions, come"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2313.5800000000004,"endTime":2314.4,"body":"and join our collective!"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2314.6400000000003,"endTime":2317.9500000000003,"body":"Head over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2314.6400000000003,"endTime":2317.9500000000003,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com/membership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2318.02,"endTime":2318.57,"body":"to learn more."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2318.8700000000003,"endTime":2321.15,"body":"And if you like what you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2318.8700000000003,"endTime":2321.15,"body":"heard today, please subscribe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2321.15,"endTime":2324.5800000000004,"body":"and stay in touch on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2321.15,"endTime":2324.5800000000004,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2324.6400000000003,"endTime":2326.5800000000004,"body":"Until next time,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2324.6400000000003,"endTime":2326.5800000000004,"body":"thanks for listening!"}]}