In the dynamic and ever-changing landscape of digital marketing, staying ahead of the curve is both a challenge and a necessity.
Galen Low is joined by Tammy Valentine—President of LuckyTamm Digital Marketing—to talk about what it takes for boutique agencies to keep pace with the breakneck speed of digital marketing.
In the dynamic and ever-changing landscape of digital marketing, staying ahead of the curve is both a challenge and a necessity.
Galen Low is joined by Tammy Valentine—President of LuckyTamm Digital Marketing—to talk about what it takes for boutique agencies to keep pace with the breakneck speed of digital marketing.
Hey folks, thanks for tuning in. My name is Galen Low with the Digital Project Manager. We are a community of digital professionals on a mission to help each other get skilled, get confident, and get connected so that we can amplify the value of project management in a digital world. If you want to hear more about that, head on over to thedigitalprojectmanager.com. Okay, today we're talking about what it takes for boutique agencies to keep pace with the breakneck speed of digital marketing. In other words, how to keep your tools, your teams, your clients, and your offering dialed into a rapidly evolving digital landscape. And with me today is Tammy Valentine, a people centric, MBA wielding digital communication specialist, and also the Founder and President of LuckyTamm Digital Marketing. Tammy, really great to have you on the show.
Tammy Valentine:Thanks, Galen. Thank you for having me.
Galen Low:I'm super eager to dive in. We're guilty of not talking enough about digital marketing on this podcast. And we were talking in the green room, I'm like, that's mostly my fault. It's not really my background. But even in this role that I'm in right now, I get a lot of exposure to how fast things move in the world of like marketing, digital communications, tools in general. So I'm really excited to dive in. But I thought maybe we could start with some framing. Could you tell us a bit about why you started LuckyTamm Digital Marketing? And just maybe about some of the types of people that you help?
Tammy Valentine:So LuckyTamm Digital Marketing was started out of a passion for communication. Oftentimes in relationships, you see things go really, really well or really terrible. And it could all be just based on communication. So same thing with business and work, communications often a challenge for organizations and management teams. So based on my experience, I worked with a lot of government agencies, construction companies, various law firms, and other organizations. And I've seen, like I said, I've seen projects go really, really well when communication is a priority. And I've seen projects completely flop because of miscommunication or just failure to communicate. So in the business, we help mid to large size businesses with improving their marketing and communication programs through an integrated strategic approach. We also help marketing departments with lending an extra hand or being an extension of them. Yeah, we really like to help augment capabilities when it comes to content, strategy, SEO/SEM, design, and web development, really helping small to medium sized businesses do well. And then also we're a good fit for businesses looking to grow their bottom line or refresh their brand and wanting leadership on just how to do that.
Galen Low:Love that. And you know what? I really liked that framing because, you know, I was doing my homework about you. I was looking into it and I was like, okay, yeah, you have a degree in strategic communications that in my head, I was like, okay, that translates because marketing is fundamentally communications and you have a strategic communications portfolio. But I had never spun it around to be like, Oh, wait a minute, strategic communications has to happen internally for things to go right for businesses to grow for projects to go right. And that's part of the service offering is not just we do all these things across this gamut, but actually part of the whole thing is like, let's make relationships happen so that business happens in a healthy way. That actually is profound. I'm really excited about that. Would it be fair to say that your business as you're running it right now, like, are you deliberately boutique? Are you trying to stay small? Or are your goals like a bit more growth and scale oriented? What is the ideal future state size for your business, and maybe why?
Tammy Valentine:That's a totally fair question. And yes, we are deliberately boutique. The pandemic proved the importance of being lean operationally for many small business owners worldwide. And so, the ideal future state is calculated growth. I've seen many marketing agency owners who will get a big contract and they'll scale up very quickly, but they might not have their internal processes or infrastructure built. And when that contract ends, they hit a cliff. So I don't believe in that. I believe in just like slow, calculated, manageable growth to really outfit the planning horizon and make sure that everybody is synergizing and that we're doing right by our clients. Cause sometimes, too, the other thing that you see when companies scale too quickly is there's different things that are missed and it can really be disruptive to company culture. And that's something that's really important to me. So yes it's, growth is on the radar, but it needs to be calculated and very intentional.
Galen Low:I like that word, calculated. And I've certainly been in an organization that's scaled too fast, and I think some of the stories that you mentioned, yeah, you know, I've lived some of those as well, so I think that is a really good approach. That LuckyTamm, you've been at this for like, over ten years? And I just wanted to ask, as an owner and operator, running a digital marketing agency in 2023 at this boutique size, what's the biggest challenge you're facing today?
Tammy Valentine:Good question. I think the big thing is really understanding and we might talk about this later on too in more depth, but really understanding which trends are worth chasing and changing all your processes and which ones aren't. So what comes to mind is like, I'm not sure if you remember when Google Glass came out and it was like a short time period. And then it was like, everybody thought it was creepy because it was like privacy. Are you recording me while you're wearing these glasses, public places. There were so many issues with that. And I remember thinking, I don't know how we can help with that service. And same thing for like Vine when that came out. So just different things like that. I know we'll probably talk about it in more detail, but I think that's the biggest challenge though, is these trends, they're a lot quicker and then they, you see the early adopters really jump on board. And so that's the big thing is this kind of going through that digital wonderland, if you will, and seeing which one is worth chasing and updating your processes for and which one's not.
Galen Low:It's such a weird one, right? You're trying to avoid the smell-o-vision of your industry, right? What's that thing that just, might sound good as the next, like, potential next step in technology, but actually is not a very good bet to place right now? Versus actually one time back in the day, I think I gave someone poor advice because at the time it was when 3D was coming out for, like, movies like home theaters and things like that. And she's like, should I invest in this? I'm like, no, that's like smell-o-vision. And then meanwhile, it caught on. Meanwhile, Avatar. Meanwhile, all these things happened and everyone had three glasses in their living room. And I was like, oops, maybe you should have invested in that. I take it back. And to have your business built around that, yeah, I can understand that stress. And that is actually where I do want to take the conversation today because things just change so fast and it's kind of hard to keep up. And then you kind of do have to place your bets. But yeah, let's tee this up and dive in. So we know that change happens fast in the digital world, but nowhere is the pressure to keep pace as high as in the world of digital marketing, at least in my opinion. Because there's just like hundreds of MarTech solutions that you need to be familiar with. Google is making all these sweeping changes to their search algorithms on the regular. Social media and like other ad platforms are continuously introducing new ways for businesses to spend money. And then in like combination with that increased pressure from businesses to just like use all digital options available to oust the competition or grow the business or succeed, things can get really hairy really fast. So I thought maybe we could start with maybe just that big loaded question, which is just how do you as an owner and operator keep pace and just not like throw your hands and give up in the face of change?
Tammy Valentine:That's a great question. And really what we've found to be successful with that in our clients is open and honest conversations. That's kind of step one, right? Or in project management, the project management world, you'd say you'd the discovery and kickoff, but really this kind of goes back to open and honest conversations with, is this trend worth chasing or is it just a fad? I've always been, like I said, more of an early adopter. And so when something new hits the street, like I have a tendency to test it and try to understand. Okay, how can we apply this to our clients and to the business? And then the other thing that I've done that has really helped with understanding when something new comes out is tapping into a really strong network of specialists. And just getting kind of their feedback and picking their brain a little bit and just getting a little bit of feedback before you put too much time and energy into something that may not really even have any kind of implication on your business or your client's business.
Galen Low:Do you have a criteria that sort of helps you sort of pick out the, I'm talking out of school, but pick out the vines from the TikToks or the clubhouses from the others?
Tammy Valentine:I do. I'm not sure how much of it I'm comfortable sharing, but there's a little bit of a cool factor of, all right, so how much would, did this have startup money behind it? What's the longevity of it look like? Are there already influencers that have started dabbling? So there is a little bit of a checklist that go through to determine whether or not the applications to our business and our clients business are going to help ultimately drive revenue. At the end of the day, that's really all that matters is how is this helping our clients attract and enhance their business for their customers.
Galen Low:I love that. And I actually liked that then it kind of feeds back into that whole open and honest conversation where, you know, you mentioned discovery and like, I think a lot of the, the project manager listening, the business analysts listening to folks just on projects listening, they'd be like, yeah, discovery is like asking questions, but also there is that sort of being a strategic partner to be able to say like, listen, cards on the table. Here's what I'm seeing about this thing that you asked for. Here's why I think we should or should not go for it. Like, here are the facts and here is the evidence I have to back that up. And to just, you know, have that frank conversation of like, knowing now what you know, and the level of trust we've built throughout, like, should we still pursue this? Is this still something that you want to pursue? Do you ever have, my answer is like, no, we still want to do that. We still want to double down on this thing that you recommended against. And how do you handle that?
Tammy Valentine:Great question. So, you know, one thing that we did different this year when it comes to these types of conversations is developing more of that criteria, go/no-go, and a list of like, okay, well, this meets, you know, what is this? Yes or no? And it's just kind of simple, neutral questions. So it kind of takes the emotional side out of it. Because that's the part that can be difficult to combat. Because if there's a motion tied to it, sometimes it's not fully logical. So we do kinda go through that as well. Especially when it comes to chasing new work or, oh, okay, this looks like it's coming out, or whatever. The go/no-go strategy for trends can be applied here as well.
Galen Low:I think it makes loads of sense. And I'm sort of imagining it as you will get measured. You and your team will be measured on like impact and results. From a marketing standpoint, there's needles that you're trying to move and as I'm picking up what you're putting down here, you're like, you will have to say, go/no-go and pick and choose based on the likelihood that you will be able to impact those KPIs or whatever your clients is expecting your impact to have. And if that is like, okay, yeah, we're trying to double down on this technology or platform or approach that you don't believe in, that might be the rationale for saying, no, we need to turn this business away because that actually won't be good for us and it won't help grow our business.
Tammy Valentine:Correct. Yep. 100%.
Galen Low:It's one of those super interesting things about growing a business, right? Is that you kind of need to be selective even though the sort of notion of growth is to like whatever, like not leave any money on the table, which I think kind of segues in. I mean, you mentioned earlier, LuckyTamm's offering. Like, that's a pretty broad gamut of offerings. And arguably it is something that a lot of agencies and organizations have had to have on offer because it is kind of part of one sort of suite in terms of being that partner that's going to help impact their business. But I'm just kind of wondering, like, how has change shaped your offering? Like, how have you made that decision to be like, okay, this thing looks like it is catching fire. I think I need to build an offering around this. And like, how do you kind of select what you offer in terms of being a digital agency?
Tammy Valentine:Great question. So I think the big thing here is, well, I naturally have a competitive nature and I have a tendency to really like a good challenge. My educational background and experience has taught me how to truly embrace change and try new things. Much of marketing involves experimentation and really trying to understand what gets users excited. And so I think that's really driven that part of the business.
Galen Low:That makes sense. Like actually, you and I, we were talking in a previous conversation, which we probably should have recorded but didn't, but this notion of like video and like sort of like more ephemeral content and where that's going. Could you say that's a good example of something where, you've done your analysis, it's hitting your criteria, and now you know that in order to compete and you need to take on this challenge of building an offering around something where you've decided to place your bet.
Tammy Valentine:Absolutely. And that has been an area in which we have made some significant changes over the course of the last year to get really users what they want. And that is, people want videos, they want, it's kind of that online addiction, if you will, of great content, and then they just want more and more and more, and you have to find a way to really create it, curate it, craft it, and get that output to where you're giving them something of value, something that's entertaining, something that's engaging, and something that is empowering. And it took us a minute to kind of figure out, okay, how are we going to do this? What does this look like? What resources are involved? And how do we make sure everything stays on brand whenever the output comes through? So that would be a perfect example of how we had to update processes around a trend that looks like it's here for a while.
Galen Low:I'm really interested in that because I'm imagining, and if I'm reading between the lines here, your team configuration doesn't necessarily change dramatically. You kind of sit down at a table and you need to kind of like figure this out. And I'm curious, even just from like a staffing and like a professional development standpoint, like, How do you, as an owner, support the skilling up of your teams? There's always new methods, there's always new approaches, there's these new areas of expertise. It's kind of hard for them to be experts instantaneously as something, like, as something drops. But also, it's hard to kind of give them the confidence to sort of tackle new types of projects. Like, how do you approach that so that everyone kind of feels comfortable with this new offering and can, like, sort of get smart on it?
Tammy Valentine:Yeah, absolutely. And I think the cool part about boutique and smaller business is that you get exposure to a lot of different things in one role and really seeing different industries and different applications of a marketing concept or design deliverable really come to life. Whereas in bigger agencies or more corporate settings, that's a lot more difficult. So what we've been doing is putting more time and resources into professional development and getting various senior level team members or what they need to see their job from a different lens. So leadership, team building, that's a big deal. And through that, helping sharpen the skills that each team member can do, and then they're also given the opportunity to kind of, you know, we talk about it quarterly on what things they see coming that they would like to improve on. And we try to come up with some kind of plan or some kind of program to which can help address that. Because that's getting everybody in a position of success on my team is very, very important. And as far as confidence goes, the big thing is finding other colleagues have a really fantastic network. So just kind of tapping into my network and saying, all right, who's familiar with this type of project or is someone in my network, can they help provide insight? To just kind of help remove anything that might be scary about like a new challenge or a new industry or just a, a project that's brand new.
Galen Low:And I swear this is not a plug, but like, do you have some of your team members like sign up for communities so that they have that sort of inbuilt network of whatever they do, like a graphic design community? Or even like, have you explored like any, like, I believe the word is like micro coaching, right? It's like, okay, we're setting up this new offering. We're a little bit like hesitant about it. Can we get on like a half an hour call with somebody who's done this before and just like jam it out?
Tammy Valentine:I can't say we've really done any kind of micro offering on that respect, but joining various groups, putting out polls to different groups and like, Hey, is anybody else encountering this problem? The latest thing has been dabbling and looking into different Slack groups that are in the same industry, just really trying to get a pulse for what the industry looks like and if there's other individuals that have encountered that same problem.
Galen Low:I love that impulse mentality. And I love what you're saying about, and especially at your size, right? And I know like boutique is this kind of like, it's kind of a vague term in a way. But the spirit of boutique for me, at least is kind of what you're saying is that these are professionals who want to stay up to speed and they're bringing things to you. They're like, here's what I'm seeing. Like, and then you're as an owner, you're like, okay, let's talk about this because we can suss it out. This is how we, you know, can give ourselves a good challenge. We can stay competitive. And also like, let's make that decision of if this is something that we want to pursue, let's do the analysis. And that's kind of like how you have your ear to the ground. You've got like, your entire team has their ear to the ground of like, okay, what else can we do that's coming down the pipe that we can be, you know, pioneers in? That actually brings me to my next question, which is just around hiring. Because in a way, you know, it stands to reason that an organization like yours, you would maybe like tap into your network of specialists and then just bring someone on if there's like a new whatever social media platform or some kind of new craze, you could like tap in and be like hiring for specific skills. But then I like listening to you, I'm like, is it a specific skill that you hire for? Or do you find that it's more about like hiring for adaptability?
Tammy Valentine:So being completely honest, I've tried both and the most successful candidates that have joined the team and just really proved themselves have been, that's been based on adaptability. If an individual is coachable, I can teach them any skill or try to get others that can teach or training and conferences and that kind of stuff. But sometimes individuals that are very skillful, they can be a little bit harder to work with just because the longer they've been doing it, the more married they are to a certain way in a certain process. And sometimes we need that level of flexibility in our work and with our clientele. And so that's something that has been really effective with the good hires has been the ability to be adaptable, punctual, and coachable.
Galen Low:I love that. And it's also because of like, like the size too. I know I keep coming back to this, but I really like, it's a pretty tightly knit team. It's not like a bunch of like deep specialists, like working in a corner. This is all kind of has to come together. It has to be an experience for your clients. It has to deliver results. And people have to, get along is not the word that I'm looking for, but collaborate effectively. I think, being the major glue that like sticks us all together. I wonder if we can dive deep into like this notion of like sudden change and technology and digital projects and clients. And I'm wondering, like, could you just walk me through the process when something like new and big drops, like doesn't have to be like a new social media platform, but like, for example, if Google changes their algorithm and that impacts your SEO and SEM offering, like what's the thing that you all do as a team that enables you to pivot?
Tammy Valentine:Great question. So communication is absolutely number one. So if there's something big coming down the pipe, we put on our forecaster hats, if you will, not in the weather, but we do see chaos and potential dumpster fire coming. We're gonna figure out a way to mitigate it. And the big thing is I've always had success with clients if we can get ahead of it through a proactive approach versus this change happened and now we're stuck. So one example I have is when GA4 came out earlier this year, this summer, that was a perfect example. We knew when it was coming. So started sending emails and reminders ahead of time. Okay, these things are coming and this is what it means for you. And you know, campaigns that were running, the websites that were helping manage the analytics. And the Google properties that we monitor and maintain month over month, this is what it means. And these are your options if you would like to discuss further. That helps a lot whenever there's a, you reach a crossroads and need to pivot. I think those things are really important and you get buy in from the clients because they're included and they have say in that process of what the outcome or how this change may impact your working relationship and, or their business and said various campaigns or whatever that might be, so yeah.
Galen Low:And it does all come back to sort of that relationship and communication and sort of being proactive. Do any of your clients kind of like sort of have a mistrust of that be like, okay, you're telling me this, you know that this change is coming and like, you know, we had lots of time like you mentioned for GA4, you know, before all the sort of UA properties shut down. But do you ever kind of get that pushback? Maybe even within your team or with clients to be like, Yeah, I think you're just trying to like create work for yourself. Or, you know, this isn't as big of a deal as anyone thinks. Or is this just an upsell, like, are you just trying to like gimmick me into spending more money with you?
Tammy Valentine:That's a fantastic question. And I think we're very fortunate to be in a position in which we can work with partners that trust us fully and that level of skepticism or question. I mean, everything we do is very, very transparent. So if there is ever a question, we can quickly access timesheets or different parts of their account and say, all right, so this was what we did and this is why we did it. And this was how it ties back to our existing agreement and how it benefits you and your team. And I think, through the other thing that we do is we really involve our clients with regular meeting times. We try to keep everything kind of brief, but we do have standups and ongoing dialogue as to what are we working on, where, what's the status of everything and then what's coming and what may impact their account. And so I think those things are really important and being in this business for a while, selecting those type of clients and knowing that they're a good fit from the beginning is really what's let us be successful.
Galen Low:It's funny because of what you described, like actually is your value is that you are these strategic partners that are proactively and regularly like checking in, giving them a heads up because, you know, I started this conversation that when we were planning, I was like, Oh yeah, how does a digital agency keep pace with all these new things, but also like. In that same vein, it's actually, in some cases, the digital agency's role to help their clients keep pace because, you know, like that is why you've been brought on your specialist. Not just to do projects and run campaigns and move needles, but also avoid some of those minefield and just be like, you have your finger on the pulse of your industry, you've got your team being curious. Everyone's sort of looking ahead. And that is the value actually of the relationship is that you're doing that for your clients as well. Like that's all part of what the offering is. Sure, you can build a website. Sure, you can set up an SEM campaign. But I think some of the value there is that, listen, we've built trust with you. You can trust us to kind of, you know, keep our finger on the pulse and we'll warn you well in advance when we see something coming down the pipe. And the other thing you said, which is we're going to give you some options. We're going to, we're not going to say you need to do this. This is the only path forward. We're going to say, Listen, you could not do anything. You just won't have any tracking on your website anymore. Maybe it's not a good option, but like they're in the driver's seat. You're advising them. And I think that is kind of one of those values that it's a value that I don't think a lot of buyers engaging in agency really think about. They're thinking about extra set of hands, capabilities we don't have to do like a project or to execute a thing. And not necessarily, yeah, they're going to be, they're going to have the inside track on stuff and they're going to be able to help us navigate. Because if we didn't have that relationship, it would have to be somebody's job internally to look out for search algorithm changes or, to research new social media platforms and, and, and. So I think that's super cool. A while back, we had this conversation just about, I guess, client expectations, client preparedness, actually. And we live in this world where everything looks like everything can be done at the push of a button. And GDPR being a good example, right, where you're like, you know what, when the deadline comes, let's have a call and then you can just press the GDPR button and we should be fine, right? How do you go about educating your clients on some of these things and sort of helping them be prepared and helping them sort of understand what it would be that your team would need to do in order to actually help them keep their business and their brand healthy?
Tammy Valentine:So on the front end, we do a lot of discussions on the planning horizon and utilizing a project plan shows a lot of strong detail about what's included in agency fees, how that relates to the schedule and the output of the deliverables. And it also helps bridge the gap of assumptions and implementation. And so I think that, and then we have these ongoing bi weekly meetings or, this sounds silly, but on a very minute note, we've got note takers in every meeting and then we share that on our project planning tool. And just even just those simple things of having those notes readily available so that the next time you meet, there's objective behind it. We don't have meetings to have meetings. And then we also, we'll next meetings if they don't serve a purpose. So I think that's something that we do is just try to teach how to be a little bit more efficient, how to properly communicate and then clear expectations on both sides.
Galen Low:That's really cool because a lot of folks come to me right and they are working in an agency context or they're running an agency and they're like, yeah, I would love to like educate my clients, but I never get paid for that. I can't charge someone for that. But it strikes me that that's actually kind of like built into your model. I don't know if it's a retainer or what have you, but it's like, let's meet every other week. Let's have open and honest discussions. Let's keep a record of it and be prepared. I can go through their due diligence of showing you what it would take for me to do something so that we can make decisions together. And all along the way, like you said, right, you're kind of like helping them increase the rigor of the way they work so that you're kind of working the same way in the same places and have the shared understanding. Like, it seems like that's actually baked into your model.
Tammy Valentine:It is. And it's always, what are we doing for the good of the group? And so that's really always the objective and just making sure everybody's on the same page. Yes, that is part of our business model, and we've been really successful with it. It's different than how other standard agencies run, but it seems to always be a little bit more effective. And we've seen some really great results from our clients as part of that whole process.
Galen Low:Last question. Totally on brand, I think. Giving your experience with change in the world of digital and knowing that there's like so much that's about to change, right? We've got like AI proliferating right now. There's other tools. There's so many tools. I can't even count them, but what are you focusing on right now to set your agency up for the future?
Tammy Valentine:That's a really great question. And it's a two part answer. So something that we're doing, setting the agency up for the future has been creating a work culture that fosters creativity, flexibility, growth, and family as our number one core value has really been the key to attracting and retaining top talent. We work for tens and we treat Fridays as flexible. And so that's been really well received because team members can plan for an early weekend. They can get appointments and errands out of the way, do something they can plan with their families and their children. There's different events and they won't be penalized with work. The other part is leadership, professional development training to stay adept with what's happening in the industry and how that may impact our clientele. That's a big thing. The other part of the question of what are we doing to make sure that we have a need in the future is we are currently dabbling in AI and video. And so we are working with some video production crews to see how we can get more premium content out the door. And then with AI, how can we leverage that to make our processes more efficient, but also make sure that we're doing right by the clients and making sure the voice and the output is as professional and polished as it needs to be.
Galen Low:Kind of like, that is the pipeline. Have the right values, right? Family as a core value I think is super cool. I would love to have you back on the show to talk about how 4 by 10s are working in an agency context. But I love that notion where you don't have to like, take a day off to have a dentist appointment or something like that. And then just like, building that into having an avenue to keep your finger on the pulse of your craft, right? Professional development. Which then leads to the ability for your team to be dabbling in AI, right? Looking ahead, to be figuring out the future, and it's not this like, project, because out of necessity, it's actually, like, it's built into the culture of your organization. Because that's how you will succeed, that's how you deliver value, that's how you're gonna stay relevant, that's how you're gonna compete by taking on these big challenges, placing your bets in the right spots, having your ear to the ground, and making some really good decisions together, so that you can be, yeah, helping your clients as much as possible.
Tammy Valentine:Right. I've seen other agencies to where they are extreme sell your soul to the agency and need to be working 60, 70 hour weeks and I just see a lot of burnout and people are very unhappy. And then if you have a poor culture, what does that communicate to your clients? So definitely taking a different approach on that. But anytime people are excited and feel supported and heard in their role, the better work that's going to come out of that. And I'd like to think that's really what I've seen from our group and makes me really proud.
Galen Low:Tammy, thanks so much for hanging out with us today. It's been a real honor having you on the show. I learned a lot. There's a lot of really good insights and I'm so happy and excited for you and your business that the values that you have, the culture you're building is actually working. A lot of people would be like, yeah, but you need to be cutthroat. You need to work 80 hours a week in order to succeed. And I think you're an example of a, absolutely. That's not necessarily true. And before we let our listeners go, I was wondering just like if folks wanna learn more about what you do at LuckyTamm, where can they find you?
Tammy Valentine:They can find us on the website. It's luckytamm.com or follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram, LuckyTamm Digital Marketing.
Galen Low:Awesome. I'll include the links in the show notes as well. And thank you again so much for spending your time with us.
Tammy Valentine:You bet. Thank you so much for having me.
Galen Low:All right, folks. There you have it. As always, if you'd like to join the conversation with over a thousand like minded project management champions, come join our collective! Head on over to thedigitalprojectmanager.com/membership to learn more. And if you like what you heard today, please subscribe and stay in touch on thedigitalprojectmanager.com. Until next time, thanks for listening.