{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.130000000000003,"endTime":28.35,"body":"Hey folks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.130000000000003,"endTime":28.35,"body":"thanks for tuning in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.36,"endTime":30.72,"body":"My name is Galen Low with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.36,"endTime":30.72,"body":"the Digital Project Manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.0,"endTime":33.589,"body":"We are a community of digital"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.0,"endTime":33.589,"body":"professionals on a mission"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":33.589,"endTime":35.749,"body":"to help each other get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":33.589,"endTime":35.749,"body":"skilled, get confident and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":35.749,"endTime":38.42,"body":"get connected so that we can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":35.749,"endTime":38.42,"body":"amplify the value of project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":38.42,"endTime":39.82,"body":"management in a digital world."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":40.31,"endTime":42.429,"body":"If you want to hear more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":40.31,"endTime":42.429,"body":"about that, head on over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":42.429,"endTime":44.399,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":44.915000000000006,"endTime":47.925,"body":"All right, today we're talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":44.915000000000006,"endTime":47.925,"body":"about career paths for project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":47.925,"endTime":50.825,"body":"managers — and specifically"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":47.925,"endTime":50.825,"body":"we're talking about what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":50.875,"endTime":54.325,"body":"options lie beyond the senior"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":50.875,"endTime":54.325,"body":"project manager role and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":54.325,"endTime":55.475,"body":"what it takes to get there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":55.635,"endTime":57.314,"body":"And also we're going to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":55.635,"endTime":57.314,"body":"dive into what people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":57.314,"endTime":59.744,"body":"don't tell you about how it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":57.314,"endTime":59.744,"body":"changes your professional"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":59.745000000000005,"endTime":61.275,"body":"life when you do get there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":61.484,"endTime":64.41499999999999,"body":"Joining me today are Tracy"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":61.484,"endTime":64.41499999999999,"body":"Hennessey and Pam Butkowski,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":64.605,"endTime":67.935,"body":"the VP and SVP of Delivery"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":64.605,"endTime":67.935,"body":"Management at Hero Digital."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":68.045,"endTime":70.065,"body":"Tracy, Pam, thanks for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":68.045,"endTime":70.065,"body":"being on the show today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":70.075,"endTime":71.055,"body":"Great to see you."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":71.055,"endTime":71.795,"body":"Hello."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":71.845,"endTime":73.25999999999999,"body":"Thanks so much."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":73.39,"endTime":74.25,"body":"Happy to be here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":74.4,"endTime":76.65,"body":"We were hamming"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":74.4,"endTime":76.65,"body":"it up in the green room."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":76.92,"endTime":80.39,"body":"So, if this becomes a bit of an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":76.92,"endTime":80.39,"body":"eccentric episode, that's why."},{"speaker":"Galen 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way of saying project and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":126.555,"endTime":129.614,"body":"program management and business"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":129.615,"endTime":130.765,"body":"analysis and product ownership."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":130.805,"endTime":133.75400000000002,"body":"So, both disciplines"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":130.805,"endTime":133.75400000000002,"body":"together under one roof."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":134.114,"endTime":136.35399999999998,"body":"Our team is really"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":134.114,"endTime":136.35399999999998,"body":"responsible for ensuring"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":136.44400000000002,"endTime":138.094,"body":"the successful delivery"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":136.44400000000002,"endTime":138.094,"body":"of all of our client work."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":138.154,"endTime":141.06400000000002,"body":"Very involved in both the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":138.154,"endTime":141.06400000000002,"body":"delivery side of the house,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":141.084,"endTime":144.094,"body":"obviously, but then our team is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":141.084,"endTime":144.094,"body":"also very involved in growth."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":144.44400000000002,"endTime":147.589,"body":"People like Tracy and the rest"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":144.44400000000002,"endTime":147.589,"body":"of our leads are all really"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":147.589,"endTime":150.159,"body":"focused on growing our existing"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":147.589,"endTime":150.159,"body":"accounts, really involved in"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":150.159,"endTime":152.34,"body":"the sales process, making sure"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":150.159,"endTime":152.34,"body":"that the things that we're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":152.34,"endTime":154.059,"body":"selling are actually achievable."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":154.129,"endTime":158.059,"body":"So I, like I said, I'm"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":154.129,"endTime":158.059,"body":"the SVP of the team."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":158.059,"endTime":161.049,"body":"And so I'm the global"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":158.059,"endTime":161.049,"body":"practice lead and leading"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":161.05,"endTime":161.92,"body":"the charge for the team."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":162.06,"endTime":164.59,"body":"I have a leadership team,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":162.06,"endTime":164.59,"body":"Tracy's a part of that."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":164.77,"endTime":167.88,"body":"And each of my leaders"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":164.77,"endTime":167.88,"body":"each kind of sit in a"},{"speaker":"Pam 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Hennessy","startTime":179.589,"endTime":181.6,"body":"As a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":179.589,"endTime":181.6,"body":"regional lead, I oversee"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":181.61,"endTime":184.69,"body":"three different portfolios"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":181.61,"endTime":184.69,"body":"of client accounts across a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":184.69,"endTime":186.04,"body":"geographic area of the business."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":186.16,"endTime":188.93,"body":"I mostly work with one of"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":186.16,"endTime":188.93,"body":"the managing directors at"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":188.94,"endTime":192.31,"body":"Hero to ensure the successful"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":188.94,"endTime":192.31,"body":"delivery of really all of the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":192.32,"endTime":195.7,"body":"professional services in that"},{"speaker":"Tracy 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my day to day."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":208.089,"endTime":211.419,"body":"I spend a lot of time split"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":208.089,"endTime":211.419,"body":"between problem solving with the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":211.419,"endTime":215.299,"body":"teams on projects when things"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":211.419,"endTime":215.299,"body":"come up and coaching the PMs"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":215.309,"endTime":217.909,"body":"on how to ensure successful"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":215.309,"endTime":217.909,"body":"delivery at the work overall."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":218.319,"endTime":218.669,"body":"Love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":218.679,"endTime":219.699,"body":"That's a huge operation."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":219.709,"endTime":222.819,"body":"You're spread out all"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":219.709,"endTime":222.819,"body":"across the states, overseas?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":223.244,"endTime":224.334,"body":"People are everywhere."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":224.654,"endTime":225.324,"body":"All over."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":225.404,"endTime":226.744,"body":"I mean, that's"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":225.404,"endTime":226.744,"body":"the thing about like where"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":226.744,"endTime":229.814,"body":"we are in today's remote"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":226.744,"endTime":229.814,"body":"society is like, the network"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":229.824,"endTime":231.394,"body":"can be pretty expansive."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":231.544,"endTime":233.584,"body":"And mostly"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":231.544,"endTime":233.584,"body":"like web projects, what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":233.584,"endTime":236.494,"body":"types of things are you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":233.584,"endTime":236.494,"body":"managing the delivery of?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":236.764,"endTime":239.494,"body":"So we are a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":236.764,"endTime":239.494,"body":"CX focused digital agency."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":239.494,"endTime":242.554,"body":"So everything we do is through"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":239.494,"endTime":242.554,"body":"the lens of customer experience."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":242.804,"endTime":246.104,"body":"We do have deep chops in"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":242.804,"endTime":246.104,"body":"user experience and design,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":246.294,"endTime":250.984,"body":"really skilled and experienced"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":246.294,"endTime":250.984,"body":"technology team and then"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":251.044,"endTime":254.304,"body":"data and insights as well as"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":251.044,"endTime":254.304,"body":"the marketing services team."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":254.314,"endTime":255.794,"body":"So we aren't just"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":254.314,"endTime":255.794,"body":"building websites."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":255.824,"endTime":258.524,"body":"We're setting up full kind of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":255.824,"endTime":258.524,"body":"end to end customer experiences"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":258.544,"endTime":261.024,"body":"all the way through media"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":258.544,"endTime":261.024,"body":"and marketing engagements."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":261.10400000000004,"endTime":264.024,"body":"So we will build websites"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":261.10400000000004,"endTime":264.024,"body":"and we will do long term"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":264.034,"endTime":266.054,"body":"managed service of those"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":264.034,"endTime":266.054,"body":"sites that we launch."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":266.334,"endTime":268.794,"body":"But we're really looking at,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":266.334,"endTime":268.794,"body":"or what we focus on is building"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":268.794,"endTime":271.974,"body":"kind of meaningful experiences"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":268.794,"endTime":271.974,"body":"for our clients' customers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":272.394,"endTime":273.674,"body":"This came up earlier"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":272.394,"endTime":273.674,"body":"in the green room when you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":273.674,"endTime":275.764,"body":"mentioned it, about finishing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":273.674,"endTime":275.764,"body":"each other's sentences,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":275.774,"endTime":277.504,"body":"but, especially because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":275.774,"endTime":277.504,"body":"folks are spread around and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":277.554,"endTime":279.164,"body":"there is some overlap in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":277.554,"endTime":279.164,"body":"your role, like, how do you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":279.164,"endTime":280.274,"body":"two stay patched together?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":280.414,"endTime":282.11400000000003,"body":"Besides calling"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":280.414,"endTime":282.11400000000003,"body":"each other all the time?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":282.284,"endTime":282.93399999999997,"body":"I know."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":283.054,"endTime":285.10400000000004,"body":"Was actually shocked when"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":283.054,"endTime":285.10400000000004,"body":"I, when we were joking"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":285.10400000000004,"endTime":287.774,"body":"about this before we started"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":285.10400000000004,"endTime":287.774,"body":"recording, when I was saying"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":287.784,"endTime":288.81399999999996,"body":"Tracy's on speed dial."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":289.169,"endTime":290.71900000000005,"body":"I thought about it."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":290.929,"endTime":293.83900000000006,"body":"I'm shocked that I haven't"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":290.929,"endTime":293.83900000000006,"body":"called you yet today."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":294.20899999999995,"endTime":297.59900000000005,"body":"I did Slack you at 7am, but I"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":294.20899999999995,"endTime":297.59900000000005,"body":"can't believe I haven't actually"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":297.59900000000005,"endTime":298.669,"body":"dialed your phone number yet."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":298.909,"endTime":300.70899999999995,"body":"We talk a hundred times a day."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":300.97900000000004,"endTime":302.32899999999995,"body":"There is no topic off limits."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":302.82899999999995,"endTime":305.139,"body":"Partner on everything,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":302.82899999999995,"endTime":305.139,"body":"even if it's just an FYI."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":305.149,"endTime":307.31899999999996,"body":"Like, I've got this thing going"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":305.149,"endTime":307.31899999999996,"body":"on, I don't need any help."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":307.33900000000006,"endTime":309.29999999999995,"body":"I've got this thing going on,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":307.33900000000006,"endTime":309.29999999999995,"body":"I need another set of ears."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":309.69899999999996,"endTime":310.54999999999995,"body":"Just true partnership."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":310.81899999999996,"endTime":312.12,"body":"I love that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":310.81899999999996,"endTime":312.12,"body":"the constant feed."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":312.20899999999995,"endTime":314.39,"body":"It's great"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":312.20899999999995,"endTime":314.39,"body":"because if Pam's role is more"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":314.39,"endTime":318.19899999999996,"body":"focused on team vision and"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":314.39,"endTime":318.19899999999996,"body":"like making sure that our team"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":318.19899999999996,"endTime":320.84900000000005,"body":"is being advocated for in the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":318.19899999999996,"endTime":320.84900000000005,"body":"right way within the internal"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":320.84900000000005,"endTime":323.369,"body":"organization and I'm focused"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":320.84900000000005,"endTime":323.369,"body":"a lot more on the client"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":323.369,"endTime":325.019,"body":"delivery aspect of the work."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":325.169,"endTime":327.62,"body":"It's so important for me"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":325.169,"endTime":327.62,"body":"to have someone like Pam"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":327.62,"endTime":330.16999999999996,"body":"that I can say, this is the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":327.62,"endTime":330.16999999999996,"body":"stuff that I'm dealing with."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":330.16999999999996,"endTime":332.42999999999995,"body":"And these are the things that"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":330.16999999999996,"endTime":332.42999999999995,"body":"we need as an organization"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":332.44000000000005,"endTime":334.995,"body":"to do differently if we"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":332.44000000000005,"endTime":334.995,"body":"want to get in the direction"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":334.995,"endTime":335.54499999999996,"body":"that we're heading."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":335.54499999999996,"endTime":338.015,"body":"These are the problems we're"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":335.54499999999996,"endTime":338.015,"body":"constantly running into on"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":338.015,"endTime":341.004,"body":"these client accounts that are"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":338.015,"endTime":341.004,"body":"due to these bigger challenges."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":341.05499999999995,"endTime":343.674,"body":"I got someone like Pam, who can"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":341.05499999999995,"endTime":343.674,"body":"work on trying to solve that."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":343.70500000000004,"endTime":346.975,"body":"And vice versa, Pam can"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":343.70500000000004,"endTime":346.975,"body":"help fill me in on critical"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":346.975,"endTime":348.97400000000005,"body":"initiatives and things like"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":346.975,"endTime":348.97400000000005,"body":"that, that are happening at"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":348.97400000000005,"endTime":351.725,"body":"that company level so that I"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":348.97400000000005,"endTime":351.725,"body":"can make sure that our team"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":351.78499999999997,"endTime":354.845,"body":"focusing on the work are doing"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":351.78499999999997,"endTime":354.845,"body":"what they need to do in order"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":354.845,"endTime":356.07500000000005,"body":"to move in that same direction."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":356.105,"endTime":359.005,"body":"So it's super critical to have"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":356.105,"endTime":359.005,"body":"people on both sides of the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":359.005,"endTime":361.385,"body":"house that are really focused"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":359.005,"endTime":361.385,"body":"and in alignment so that you're"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":361.44500000000005,"endTime":362.83500000000004,"body":"marching towards the same goal."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":363.095,"endTime":365.04499999999996,"body":"Can I just say how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":363.095,"endTime":365.04499999999996,"body":"lucky they are to have you two?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":366.46500000000003,"endTime":367.855,"body":"I'm lucky"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":366.46500000000003,"endTime":367.855,"body":"to have you, Trace."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":368.115,"endTime":370.20399999999995,"body":"No, I think another big part of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":368.115,"endTime":370.20399999999995,"body":"my role, like Tracy said, that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":370.355,"endTime":373.384,"body":"kind of give and take between"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":370.355,"endTime":373.384,"body":"us and making sure that we're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":373.45399999999995,"endTime":375.524,"body":"informing each other on what's"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":373.45399999999995,"endTime":375.524,"body":"happening within our purview."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":376.025,"endTime":378.92499999999995,"body":"There are also three other"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":376.025,"endTime":378.92499999999995,"body":"regions within Hero, and so"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":378.92499999999995,"endTime":380.93499999999995,"body":"a big part of my day to day"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":378.92499999999995,"endTime":380.93499999999995,"body":"is making sure that we have"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":380.95500000000004,"endTime":383.08500000000004,"body":"consistency and that the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":380.95500000000004,"endTime":383.08500000000004,"body":"learnings that Tracy has and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":383.08500000000004,"endTime":384.985,"body":"when she calls the bat phone"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":383.08500000000004,"endTime":384.985,"body":"and says, Oh my god we got"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":384.985,"endTime":386.985,"body":"this thing going on can you"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":384.985,"endTime":386.985,"body":"help me out or is this a pain"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":386.985,"endTime":388.21500000000003,"body":"point across the other regions?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":388.235,"endTime":390.11400000000003,"body":"I make sure that I'm talking"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":388.235,"endTime":390.11400000000003,"body":"to the other leads and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":390.11400000000003,"endTime":391.86400000000003,"body":"saying is this a problem"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":390.11400000000003,"endTime":391.86400000000003,"body":"that we're feeling over here?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":391.865,"endTime":392.875,"body":"How have you guys solved it?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":392.875,"endTime":394.81500000000005,"body":"And we just, I'll learn from"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":392.875,"endTime":394.81500000000005,"body":"each other and make sure"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":394.81500000000005,"endTime":397.485,"body":"that globally, as a delivery"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":394.81500000000005,"endTime":397.485,"body":"management practice we're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":397.485,"endTime":398.54499999999996,"body":"moving in the same direction."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":398.54499999999996,"endTime":399.225,"body":"We're all aligned."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":399.80499999999995,"endTime":400.995,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":401.345,"endTime":404.134,"body":"And in real time, like most"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":401.345,"endTime":404.134,"body":"organizations I've worked"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":404.134,"endTime":406.394,"body":"for, that comes up in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":404.134,"endTime":406.394,"body":"quarterly planning maybe,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":406.70500000000004,"endTime":408.135,"body":"or like annual planning."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":408.16499999999996,"endTime":410.08399999999995,"body":"It's like, Oh, here's some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":408.16499999999996,"endTime":410.08399999999995,"body":"things we dealt with this year."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":410.08399999999995,"endTime":411.33399999999995,"body":"You're like picking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":410.08399999999995,"endTime":411.33399999999995,"body":"up the bat phone."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":411.33399999999995,"endTime":412.014,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":412.244,"endTime":413.124,"body":"Hourly plannIng."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":414.744,"endTime":415.09400000000005,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":415.09400000000005,"endTime":415.754,"body":"Super cool."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":415.95399999999995,"endTime":418.60400000000004,"body":"Just to dive into it, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":415.95399999999995,"endTime":418.60400000000004,"body":"wanted to talk about just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":418.73400000000004,"endTime":420.86400000000003,"body":"the sort of step beyond"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":418.73400000000004,"endTime":420.86400000000003,"body":"senior project manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":420.86400000000003,"endTime":422.36400000000003,"body":"And of course it's not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":420.86400000000003,"endTime":422.36400000000003,"body":"the same for everybody."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":422.36400000000003,"endTime":423.784,"body":"It could be a lot"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":422.36400000000003,"endTime":423.784,"body":"of different things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":424.06399999999996,"endTime":427.36400000000003,"body":"But what I think is unique about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":424.06399999999996,"endTime":427.36400000000003,"body":"you two and something that maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":427.36400000000003,"endTime":429.394,"body":"not everyone fully appreciates"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":427.36400000000003,"endTime":429.394,"body":"when they meet you is that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":429.554,"endTime":432.31899999999996,"body":"both of you have a background"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":429.554,"endTime":432.31899999999996,"body":"in project management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":432.31899999999996,"endTime":435.10900000000004,"body":"It's like you were doing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":432.31899999999996,"endTime":435.10900000000004,"body":"project management and you've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":435.10900000000004,"endTime":438.299,"body":"gotten to where you've gotten"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":435.10900000000004,"endTime":438.299,"body":"through project management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":438.58900000000006,"endTime":441.44899999999996,"body":"And at some point in your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":438.58900000000006,"endTime":441.44899999999996,"body":"lives, you were probably a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":441.44899999999996,"endTime":444.43899999999996,"body":"senior project manager or some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":441.44899999999996,"endTime":444.43899999999996,"body":"kind of equivalency thereof."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":444.59900000000005,"endTime":447.299,"body":"And I thought maybe I just like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":444.59900000000005,"endTime":447.299,"body":"do a quick hit from each of you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":447.30899999999997,"endTime":450.029,"body":"Like when you were that sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":447.30899999999997,"endTime":450.029,"body":"of senior project manager"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":450.029,"endTime":453.894,"body":"role, what was the next"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":450.029,"endTime":453.894,"body":"role you took on after that?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":454.11400000000003,"endTime":455.144,"body":"Maybe I'll start with Tracy."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":455.43399999999997,"endTime":455.884,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":456.014,"endTime":458.424,"body":"So I've worked at a couple"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":456.014,"endTime":458.424,"body":"of different agencies."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":458.45399999999995,"endTime":460.394,"body":"They were relatively flat."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":460.68399999999997,"endTime":462.97400000000005,"body":"I technically never held the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":460.68399999999997,"endTime":462.97400000000005,"body":"title of program manager."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":462.97400000000005,"endTime":465.71400000000006,"body":"I, did move from senior"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":462.97400000000005,"endTime":465.71400000000006,"body":"project management into"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":465.71400000000006,"endTime":466.61400000000003,"body":"leadership from there."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":466.735,"endTime":467.424,"body":"I didn't either."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":467.44399999999996,"endTime":468.144,"body":"That's crazy."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":468.254,"endTime":470.384,"body":"No, for a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":468.254,"endTime":470.384,"body":"long time, I started running"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":470.384,"endTime":474.35400000000004,"body":"multi stream programs as a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":470.384,"endTime":474.35400000000004,"body":"project manager by basically"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":474.394,"endTime":478.244,"body":"taking a singular project"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":474.394,"endTime":478.244,"body":"and focusing on growing and"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":478.244,"endTime":481.174,"body":"supporting, turning those"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":478.244,"endTime":481.174,"body":"into multi stream programs."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":481.254,"endTime":485.674,"body":"And so I find that the career"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":481.254,"endTime":485.674,"body":"path for PMs is not always"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":485.68399999999997,"endTime":489.10400000000004,"body":"super linear because we are"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":485.68399999999997,"endTime":489.10400000000004,"body":"ultimately a, you said I can"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":489.10400000000004,"endTime":490.83399999999995,"body":"swear, get shit done role."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":491.144,"endTime":493.514,"body":"And we figure out what"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":491.144,"endTime":493.514,"body":"needs to happen in order"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":493.624,"endTime":496.81399999999996,"body":"to meet the needs of the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":493.624,"endTime":496.81399999999996,"body":"business and for me, I"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":496.81399999999996,"endTime":499.524,"body":"started working on coaching"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":496.81399999999996,"endTime":499.524,"body":"more junior team members."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":499.524,"endTime":502.624,"body":"I felt like I had a vision"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":499.524,"endTime":502.624,"body":"for where I wanted them to go"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":502.624,"endTime":504.904,"body":"and seeing some of the growth"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":502.624,"endTime":504.904,"body":"that I wanted in some of the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":504.904,"endTime":507.44399999999996,"body":"projects and like talking"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":504.904,"endTime":507.44399999999996,"body":"to leadership about where"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":507.44399999999996,"endTime":509.07399999999996,"body":"those opportunities were."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":509.35400000000004,"endTime":512.534,"body":"I had a brief stint with a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":509.35400000000004,"endTime":512.534,"body":"product title that didn't"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":512.534,"endTime":515.044,"body":"even really matter in the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":512.534,"endTime":515.044,"body":"context of it and then moved"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":515.044,"endTime":518.204,"body":"into a director role for the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":515.044,"endTime":518.204,"body":"product and project management"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":518.404,"endTime":521.234,"body":"groups that were at the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":518.404,"endTime":521.234,"body":"agency I was at at the time."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":521.414,"endTime":524.779,"body":"And so it became very much"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":521.414,"endTime":524.779,"body":"defining what we were trying"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":524.779,"endTime":527.349,"body":"to do as well as figuring"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":524.779,"endTime":527.349,"body":"out the how with the PMs"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":527.349,"endTime":528.599,"body":"and how we get there, so."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":528.809,"endTime":529.899,"body":"What I love"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":528.809,"endTime":529.899,"body":"about it, because I had"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":529.899,"endTime":531.699,"body":"this question afterwards,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":529.899,"endTime":531.699,"body":"it's like, what qualified"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":531.699,"endTime":532.469,"body":"you for that next role?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":532.469,"endTime":535.299,"body":"But as you're talking through"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":532.469,"endTime":535.299,"body":"that, it's like, you were doing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":535.299,"endTime":536.869,"body":"parts of that next role already."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":536.899,"endTime":539.669,"body":"Here you are, project manager,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":536.899,"endTime":539.669,"body":"senior project manager rather,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":539.8389999999999,"endTime":541.679,"body":"and you're doing multi channel."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":541.679,"endTime":543.8389999999999,"body":"So you're looking at it as a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":541.679,"endTime":543.8389999999999,"body":"program, which forces you to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":543.8389999999999,"endTime":544.8389999999999,"body":"think of it as a business."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":545.159,"endTime":547.9889999999999,"body":"You're coaching others on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":545.159,"endTime":547.9889999999999,"body":"your team, like not every"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":548.009,"endTime":551.049,"body":"senior PM that I know has"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":548.009,"endTime":551.049,"body":"that as part of their remit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":551.149,"endTime":553.369,"body":"And honestly, maybe it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":551.149,"endTime":553.369,"body":"necessarily part of yours"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":553.369,"endTime":554.749,"body":"formally, but you were doing it."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":555.259,"endTime":557.4689999999999,"body":"Yeah, it was"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":555.259,"endTime":557.4689999999999,"body":"certainly not for a while."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":557.4689999999999,"endTime":561.0799999999999,"body":"I think a lesson I learned"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":557.4689999999999,"endTime":561.0799999999999,"body":"early on was that I let myself,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":561.0799999999999,"endTime":564.2189999999999,"body":"like, people find themselves in"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":561.0799999999999,"endTime":564.2189999999999,"body":"places where they start doing"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":564.2189999999999,"endTime":565.39,"body":"the role before they get it."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":565.429,"endTime":568.3,"body":"And not saying that that's"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":565.429,"endTime":568.3,"body":"definitely what you should"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":568.31,"endTime":570.4,"body":"do, but like a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":568.31,"endTime":570.4,"body":"find themselves in it."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":570.4399999999999,"endTime":573.1999999999999,"body":"I think early on in my"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":570.4399999999999,"endTime":573.1999999999999,"body":"career, I let myself do it"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":573.22,"endTime":574.7099999999999,"body":"without having it for longer."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":574.7099999999999,"endTime":577.8299999999999,"body":"And now I definitely advocate"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":574.7099999999999,"endTime":577.8299999999999,"body":"earlier and more often for"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":577.8299999999999,"endTime":579.9599999999999,"body":"myself and where I want"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":577.8299999999999,"endTime":579.9599999999999,"body":"to be versus like, just"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":580.39,"endTime":581.61,"body":"doing it at a lower title."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":581.62,"endTime":585.2099999999999,"body":"But it's a pretty common story"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":581.62,"endTime":585.2099999999999,"body":"I think for people that the best"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":585.2099999999999,"endTime":587.41,"body":"way to get in it it's, there's"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":585.2099999999999,"endTime":587.41,"body":"not always just going to be"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":587.41,"endTime":590.409,"body":"some role that jumps in your lap"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":587.41,"endTime":590.409,"body":"and your manager comes up and"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":590.41,"endTime":592.419,"body":"says, Hey, I've been thinking"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":590.41,"endTime":592.419,"body":"about you and I think you'd"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":592.42,"endTime":594.02,"body":"be perfect for this new job."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":594.029,"endTime":595.5799999999999,"body":"Like you really want"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":594.029,"endTime":595.5799999999999,"body":"to be your own best"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":595.5799999999999,"endTime":596.499,"body":"advocate for that stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":596.915,"endTime":599.245,"body":"Even what you said"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":596.915,"endTime":599.245,"body":"about advising, leadership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":599.245,"endTime":602.275,"body":"teams, when you're in that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":599.245,"endTime":602.275,"body":"senior PM role, also gave"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":602.275,"endTime":604.664,"body":"you A) that clout and B)"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":602.275,"endTime":604.664,"body":"that visibility into it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":604.765,"endTime":606.725,"body":"Did it end up being something"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":604.765,"endTime":606.725,"body":"where you're like, Hey, I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":606.805,"endTime":607.785,"body":"kind of doing this already."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":607.785,"endTime":610.005,"body":"Would you make me, part"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":607.785,"endTime":610.005,"body":"of the leadership team?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":610.2149999999999,"endTime":612.384,"body":"Or was it kind of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":610.2149999999999,"endTime":612.384,"body":"something that came to you?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":612.755,"endTime":614.165,"body":"No, it"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":612.755,"endTime":614.165,"body":"was definitely something"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":614.165,"endTime":614.995,"body":"I advocated for."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":614.995,"endTime":617.615,"body":"There wasn't a vacancy"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":614.995,"endTime":617.615,"body":"like for an official role."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":617.625,"endTime":619.525,"body":"There was someone that"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":617.625,"endTime":619.525,"body":"did depart so there was an"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":619.865,"endTime":623.285,"body":"opportunity gap and my role"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":619.865,"endTime":623.285,"body":"became what it was because"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":623.76,"endTime":626.42,"body":"I saw the need and I, said"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":623.76,"endTime":626.42,"body":"that I wanted to go for it"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":626.43,"endTime":627.8299999999999,"body":"and yeah, took it from there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":628.3199999999999,"endTime":629.13,"body":"Pam, how about you?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":629.13,"endTime":630.41,"body":"You were a senior PM."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":630.4599999999999,"endTime":633.3,"body":"I can't recall where, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":630.4599999999999,"endTime":633.3,"body":"apologize, but what did that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":633.42,"endTime":634.49,"body":"next step look like for you?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":634.679,"endTime":637.409,"body":"Yeah, so I did"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":634.679,"endTime":637.409,"body":"my senior PM stint, Nerdery."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":637.639,"endTime":639.11,"body":"So, yeah, it's similar."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":639.17,"endTime":640.88,"body":"I never held a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":639.17,"endTime":640.88,"body":"program manager title."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":640.88,"endTime":644.6899999999999,"body":"I moved in from a senior project"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":640.88,"endTime":644.6899999999999,"body":"manager into a role that back in"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":644.6899999999999,"endTime":645.8299999999999,"body":"the day we called a team lead."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":646.22,"endTime":649.92,"body":"And so I was, similar to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":646.22,"endTime":649.92,"body":"Tracy, I was taking on our"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":649.92,"endTime":651.17,"body":"most complex work already."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":651.17,"endTime":653.88,"body":"I was taking on the bigger"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":651.17,"endTime":653.88,"body":"media engagements, coaching"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":653.88,"endTime":655.5889999999999,"body":"and mentoring more junior PMs."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":656.129,"endTime":658.079,"body":"And so that next step"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":656.129,"endTime":658.079,"body":"for me actually moved"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":658.0799999999999,"endTime":660.669,"body":"into HR management,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":658.0799999999999,"endTime":660.669,"body":"not program management."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":660.81,"endTime":663.7189999999999,"body":"Nerdery at the time had"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":660.81,"endTime":663.7189999999999,"body":"very few true programs."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":663.98,"endTime":665.79,"body":"Now that I think about it, I"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":663.98,"endTime":665.79,"body":"think there were two or three"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":665.99,"endTime":668.9,"body":"that actually required program"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":665.99,"endTime":668.9,"body":"managers, but we had hundreds"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":669.4599999999999,"endTime":672.64,"body":"of projects that didn't require"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":669.4599999999999,"endTime":672.64,"body":"a program manager level."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":672.64,"endTime":674.98,"body":"And so we structured the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":672.64,"endTime":674.98,"body":"team back then to be around"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":675.22,"endTime":678.28,"body":"like small team culture"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":675.22,"endTime":678.28,"body":"of project managers within"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":678.37,"endTime":679.48,"body":"Team Lead overseeing them."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":679.6899999999999,"endTime":682.9,"body":"And so I moved into that role"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":679.6899999999999,"endTime":682.9,"body":"right out of being a senior PM."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":682.9,"endTime":684.0699999999999,"body":"But yeah, very similar."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":684.0699999999999,"endTime":685.36,"body":"Was kind of doing"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":684.0699999999999,"endTime":685.36,"body":"the job already."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":685.54,"endTime":688.5699999999999,"body":"Had the PMs that I was working"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":685.54,"endTime":688.5699999999999,"body":"with day-to-day or working"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":688.5699999999999,"endTime":691.0899999999999,"body":"closest to was mentoring,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":688.5699999999999,"endTime":691.0899999999999,"body":"coaching them, helping"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":691.0899999999999,"endTime":693.89,"body":"them kinda through some of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":691.0899999999999,"endTime":693.89,"body":"their challenges, bouncing"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":693.89,"endTime":694.75,"body":"ideas off of each other."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":694.75,"endTime":696.93,"body":"And so it was a, you know,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":694.75,"endTime":696.93,"body":"a seamless move to move"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":696.99,"endTime":698.14,"body":"into a management role."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":698.4499999999999,"endTime":698.8399999999999,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":698.8399999999999,"endTime":701.0799999999999,"body":"And there's like these themes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":698.8399999999999,"endTime":701.0799999999999,"body":"that are emerging for me, at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":701.0799999999999,"endTime":703.1999999999999,"body":"least you know, and combining"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":701.0799999999999,"endTime":703.1999999999999,"body":"it with some other conversations"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":703.1999999999999,"endTime":703.869,"body":"I've had with others."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":703.869,"endTime":706.209,"body":"But like, there is this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":703.869,"endTime":706.209,"body":"sort of willingness to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":706.209,"endTime":707.379,"body":"take on a challenge, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":707.47,"endTime":710.06,"body":"So in other words, both of you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":707.47,"endTime":710.06,"body":"are like, Oh, I was taking on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":710.0699999999999,"endTime":712.6899999999999,"body":"these big projects or these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":710.0699999999999,"endTime":712.6899999999999,"body":"like multi channel, multi"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":712.6899999999999,"endTime":714.28,"body":"stream things or, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":714.28,"endTime":715.5,"body":"Like the sort of big stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":715.795,"endTime":718.735,"body":"Which kind of already a gives"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":715.795,"endTime":718.735,"body":"you a bit of visibility and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":718.745,"endTime":721.275,"body":"elects you as somebody who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":718.745,"endTime":721.275,"body":"is like, Oh, that person like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":721.295,"endTime":725.3349999999999,"body":"takes on challenges, like deals"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":721.295,"endTime":725.3349999999999,"body":"with ambiguity, isn't afraid to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":725.385,"endTime":726.355,"body":"take something on and lead it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":726.5749999999999,"endTime":729.064,"body":"And then this coaching aspect"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":726.5749999999999,"endTime":729.064,"body":"to things as well, which I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":729.074,"endTime":731.8249999999999,"body":"a lot of people miss, I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":729.074,"endTime":731.8249999999999,"body":"along the way, maybe because,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":731.995,"endTime":734.36,"body":"I talked to some people who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":731.995,"endTime":734.36,"body":"don't feel like it's their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":734.36,"endTime":737.5649999999999,"body":"place to like coach and mentor"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":734.36,"endTime":737.5649999999999,"body":"or like it's too much, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":737.5649999999999,"endTime":739.275,"body":"Like I'm already like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":737.5649999999999,"endTime":739.275,"body":"juggling all these plates,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":739.305,"endTime":741.7149999999999,"body":"but when you think about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":739.305,"endTime":741.7149999999999,"body":"value to an organization,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":741.7149999999999,"endTime":742.605,"body":"like that's a great way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":742.9399999999999,"endTime":745.13,"body":"So, you can take that to any"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":742.9399999999999,"endTime":745.13,"body":"leadership team and be like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":745.13,"endTime":747.49,"body":"listen, I'm like, I'm providing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":745.13,"endTime":747.49,"body":"coaching with the team."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":747.49,"endTime":749.88,"body":"Everyone's getting better"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":747.49,"endTime":749.88,"body":"like under my watch."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":750.01,"endTime":751.63,"body":"I'm leading some big things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":750.01,"endTime":751.63,"body":"that are very important to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":751.63,"endTime":755.3299999999999,"body":"your business, which kind of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":751.63,"endTime":755.3299999999999,"body":"gives you that context and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":755.3299999999999,"endTime":758.2099999999999,"body":"the reinforcement where when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":755.3299999999999,"endTime":758.2099999999999,"body":"you advocate for yourself."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":758.27,"endTime":760.55,"body":"Assuming the timing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":758.27,"endTime":760.55,"body":"is right and all those"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":760.55,"endTime":762.5899999999999,"body":"things, notwithstanding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":760.55,"endTime":762.5899999999999,"body":"that like, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":762.5899999999999,"endTime":764.49,"body":"a pretty easy yes, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":764.76,"endTime":767.72,"body":"To be like, well actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":764.76,"endTime":767.72,"body":"yes, even yes, I would"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":767.725,"endTime":768.47,"body":"hate to lose this."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":769.3399999999999,"endTime":772.22,"body":"I think what's"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":769.3399999999999,"endTime":772.22,"body":"interesting is you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":772.225,"endTime":774.77,"body":"how you really need to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":772.225,"endTime":774.77,"body":"advocate and mentor and talk"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":774.77,"endTime":776.0,"body":"about value to the business."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":776.0,"endTime":779.72,"body":"And that's I think really"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":776.0,"endTime":779.72,"body":"starts to hit on some of the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":779.72,"endTime":782.43,"body":"important things that really"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":779.72,"endTime":782.43,"body":"make a distinction between"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":782.43,"endTime":785.26,"body":"someone at a program level"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":782.43,"endTime":785.26,"body":"versus a project level is your"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":785.26,"endTime":788.86,"body":"mentality really has to shift"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":785.26,"endTime":788.86,"body":"to be thinking of yourself as"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":788.949,"endTime":791.89,"body":"a person that's contributing"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":788.949,"endTime":791.89,"body":"to the business versus someone"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":791.89,"endTime":793.11,"body":"that's contributing to the team."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":793.17,"endTime":794.9689999999999,"body":"And so for me,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":793.17,"endTime":794.9689999999999,"body":"project management has"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":795.039,"endTime":796.7189999999999,"body":"always been my focus."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":796.879,"endTime":799.669,"body":"But when I was trying to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":796.879,"endTime":799.669,"body":"move up into that new role,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":799.669,"endTime":802.399,"body":"it was really about trying"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":799.669,"endTime":802.399,"body":"to see myself as like"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":802.399,"endTime":803.6089999999999,"body":"a small business owner."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":803.6089999999999,"endTime":806.619,"body":"And like, how do I understand"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":803.6089999999999,"endTime":806.619,"body":"the decisions that I'm making"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":806.619,"endTime":808.2189999999999,"body":"now are affecting things later?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":808.2189999999999,"endTime":810.3489999999999,"body":"Like, how do the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":808.2189999999999,"endTime":810.3489999999999,"body":"financials happening"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":810.3589999999999,"endTime":811.909,"body":"here impact the business?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":811.9789999999999,"endTime":813.899,"body":"Like, why does"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":811.9789999999999,"endTime":813.899,"body":"utilization matter?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":813.919,"endTime":816.7389999999999,"body":"And like, how does the decisions"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":813.919,"endTime":816.7389999999999,"body":"on staffing this project"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":816.919,"endTime":818.3589999999999,"body":"help or hurt another project?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":818.369,"endTime":820.7189999999999,"body":"And I need to really understand"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":818.369,"endTime":820.7189999999999,"body":"how all of that comes together."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":820.7189999999999,"endTime":823.324,"body":"Because you're really"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":820.7189999999999,"endTime":823.324,"body":"much more business focused"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":823.4639999999999,"endTime":825.694,"body":"than, project focused"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":823.4639999999999,"endTime":825.694,"body":"when you make that shift."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":826.024,"endTime":826.2139999999999,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":826.2139999999999,"endTime":826.3539999999999,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":826.3539999999999,"endTime":827.254,"body":"I agree with all that."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":827.504,"endTime":830.034,"body":"I also think like going back"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":827.504,"endTime":830.034,"body":"to mentoring and coaching."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":830.454,"endTime":832.994,"body":"A lot of people when they think"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":830.454,"endTime":832.994,"body":"about mentoring, they think I"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":832.994,"endTime":834.524,"body":"need to take on a mentor, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":834.524,"endTime":836.8639999999999,"body":"Or I need to be checking"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":834.524,"endTime":836.8639999999999,"body":"in with people and asking"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":836.8639999999999,"endTime":837.944,"body":"them how I can help them."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":838.164,"endTime":840.6039999999999,"body":"Mentoring can be as simple as"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":838.164,"endTime":840.6039999999999,"body":"I just solved this problem, I'm"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":840.6039999999999,"endTime":842.7339999999999,"body":"going to post it in our team"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":840.6039999999999,"endTime":842.7339999999999,"body":"Slack channel and see if anybody"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":842.7339999999999,"endTime":843.814,"body":"else can learn from it, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":843.824,"endTime":846.3539999999999,"body":"Like I just solved this"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":843.824,"endTime":846.3539999999999,"body":"really big thing or I created"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":846.3539999999999,"endTime":848.494,"body":"this new way of building"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":846.3539999999999,"endTime":848.494,"body":"out my project plans that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":848.494,"endTime":849.634,"body":"saved me a ton of time."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":849.8439999999999,"endTime":851.494,"body":"I'm just going to tell"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":849.8439999999999,"endTime":851.494,"body":"people that I did it and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":851.494,"endTime":853.134,"body":"I'm sure that somebody"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":851.494,"endTime":853.134,"body":"will find value in that."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":853.459,"endTime":856.5889999999999,"body":"It doesn't mean like I need to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":853.459,"endTime":856.5889999999999,"body":"be assigned a mentee and I like"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":856.669,"endTime":858.569,"body":"adding value in different ways."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":858.709,"endTime":860.069,"body":"That's, I know we'll"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":858.709,"endTime":860.069,"body":"talk about this a little"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":860.069,"endTime":861.079,"body":"bit later too, I'm sure."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":861.079,"endTime":863.759,"body":"But now that Tracy and I"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":861.079,"endTime":863.759,"body":"are in leadership positions,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":863.759,"endTime":866.1089999999999,"body":"we're hiring program managers"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":863.759,"endTime":866.1089999999999,"body":"we're helping people figure"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":866.1089999999999,"endTime":867.819,"body":"out how to get to the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":866.1089999999999,"endTime":867.819,"body":"next step in their career."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":867.939,"endTime":869.3389999999999,"body":"That's one of the big"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":867.939,"endTime":869.3389999999999,"body":"things that we talk about."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":869.3389999999999,"endTime":872.2389999999999,"body":"Are you actively trying to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":869.3389999999999,"endTime":872.2389999999999,"body":"help the team get better?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":872.4789999999999,"endTime":874.369,"body":"I'm really glad you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":872.4789999999999,"endTime":874.369,"body":"called that out because I know"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":874.369,"endTime":878.049,"body":"a lot of listeners, including"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":874.369,"endTime":878.049,"body":"like myself in younger years"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":878.0989999999999,"endTime":879.999,"body":"would be like, yeah, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":878.0989999999999,"endTime":879.999,"body":"there's no mentoring program."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":879.999,"endTime":881.4889999999999,"body":"There's no real way"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":879.999,"endTime":881.4889999999999,"body":"to coach or whatever."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":881.51,"endTime":883.42,"body":"Like it's not available"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":881.51,"endTime":883.42,"body":"where I work, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":883.43,"endTime":884.16,"body":"you're absolutely right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":884.16,"endTime":886.61,"body":"It's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":884.16,"endTime":886.61,"body":"a formal thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":886.865,"endTime":889.545,"body":"And genuinely, it's not like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":886.865,"endTime":889.545,"body":"the, Oh, I'd like to be part of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":889.545,"endTime":891.865,"body":"the mentorship program so I can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":889.545,"endTime":891.865,"body":"be a mentor and put it on my CV."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":891.865,"endTime":893.685,"body":"It's like, I just want"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":891.865,"endTime":893.685,"body":"to help people do stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":893.6949999999999,"endTime":895.2049999999999,"body":"I'm learning these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":893.6949999999999,"endTime":895.2049999999999,"body":"things on the fly."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":895.4449999999999,"endTime":897.145,"body":"I'm gonna, broadcast it out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":897.295,"endTime":899.525,"body":"And like, in some ways,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":897.295,"endTime":899.525,"body":"putting your shame to the side."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":899.525,"endTime":901.9,"body":"Because someone might be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":899.525,"endTime":901.9,"body":"like listen, like I've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":901.9,"endTime":903.68,"body":"got a better way, but I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":901.9,"endTime":903.68,"body":"was keeping it to myself."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":903.87,"endTime":907.43,"body":"But still like the spirit of it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":903.87,"endTime":907.43,"body":"is improving the team, which is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":907.43,"endTime":910.5899999999999,"body":"improving the business, which"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":907.43,"endTime":910.5899999999999,"body":"is Tracy, as you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":910.699,"endTime":913.78,"body":"well beyond the, did I deliver"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":910.699,"endTime":913.78,"body":"this project good, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":913.8,"endTime":916.8399999999999,"body":"Like it's thinking outside"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":913.8,"endTime":916.8399999999999,"body":"of that, you know, taking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":916.8399999999999,"endTime":919.4789999999999,"body":"the blinders off a little bit"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":916.8399999999999,"endTime":919.4789999999999,"body":"and understanding your value,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":919.49,"endTime":920.8199999999999,"body":"like within the organization."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":921.11,"endTime":921.29,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":921.66,"endTime":925.15,"body":"You're so much shifting from am"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":921.66,"endTime":925.15,"body":"I doing this thing correctly to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":925.15,"endTime":928.51,"body":"am I enabling other people to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":925.15,"endTime":928.51,"body":"do what they need to do well?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":928.5699999999999,"endTime":931.629,"body":"And it's just a big change"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":928.5699999999999,"endTime":931.629,"body":"for where you need to spend"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":931.629,"endTime":934.2389999999999,"body":"your time and where you need"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":931.629,"endTime":934.2389999999999,"body":"to focus your energy and then"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":934.329,"endTime":936.7289999999999,"body":"how you message and create"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":934.329,"endTime":936.7289999999999,"body":"the right level of visibility"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":936.7289999999999,"endTime":938.5889999999999,"body":"to what those things are"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":936.7289999999999,"endTime":938.5889999999999,"body":"that you're doing to others"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":938.5889999999999,"endTime":940.129,"body":"is just as big a part of it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":940.499,"endTime":942.379,"body":"I want to dig"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":940.499,"endTime":942.379,"body":"in to, you know, answer"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":942.379,"endTime":944.429,"body":"the mail on what I teed up"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":942.379,"endTime":944.429,"body":"at the beginning, which is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":944.4789999999999,"endTime":948.039,"body":"sometimes, we have this sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":944.4789999999999,"endTime":948.039,"body":"of pursuit of a career path."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":948.179,"endTime":950.7389999999999,"body":"And you just want to take"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":948.179,"endTime":950.7389999999999,"body":"the next step up, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":950.7389999999999,"endTime":952.029,"body":"that's what you ought to do."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":952.2389999999999,"endTime":954.169,"body":"But I find it's one of those"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":952.2389999999999,"endTime":954.169,"body":"things that we don't talk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":954.169,"endTime":957.4889999999999,"body":"about a lot of the realities"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":954.169,"endTime":957.4889999999999,"body":"of what that actually means."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":957.4889999999999,"endTime":958.8489999999999,"body":"Okay, yeah, you got a promotion."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":958.8589999999999,"endTime":961.939,"body":"Everyone on LinkedIn goes, it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":958.8589999999999,"endTime":961.939,"body":"gives you the applause emoji"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":962.139,"endTime":963.2289999999999,"body":"and that's all fine and good."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":963.2289999999999,"endTime":964.899,"body":"But some of these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":963.2289999999999,"endTime":964.899,"body":"are pretty big jumps."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":964.899,"endTime":968.279,"body":"I know we talked about the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":964.899,"endTime":968.279,"body":"notion that yes, we're doing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":968.429,"endTime":970.769,"body":"the next job already and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":968.429,"endTime":970.769,"body":"that's how we advocate for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":970.769,"endTime":972.249,"body":"ourselves into that next role."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":972.549,"endTime":974.8489999999999,"body":"But then when you get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":972.549,"endTime":974.8489999999999,"body":"it, like sometimes things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":974.919,"endTime":976.2389999999999,"body":"change pretty dramatically."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":976.549,"endTime":979.379,"body":"And I wondered if you had any"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":976.549,"endTime":979.379,"body":"stories just about, some of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":979.379,"endTime":982.529,"body":"like more unexpected ways that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":979.379,"endTime":982.529,"body":"your life changed, like maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":982.529,"endTime":986.079,"body":"personally or professionally"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":982.529,"endTime":986.079,"body":"when you took on your new role."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":986.4689999999999,"endTime":987.8389999999999,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":986.4689999999999,"endTime":987.8389999999999,"body":"we talk about this on our"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":987.8389999999999,"endTime":990.289,"body":"team a lot, actually, the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":987.8389999999999,"endTime":990.289,"body":"jump from project management"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":990.299,"endTime":991.069,"body":"to program management."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":991.5989999999999,"endTime":994.709,"body":"It's the biggest one in our"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":991.5989999999999,"endTime":994.709,"body":"kind of linear groped past."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":994.999,"endTime":997.699,"body":"It is, like Tracy said,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":994.999,"endTime":997.699,"body":"your purview gets a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":997.699,"endTime":998.319,"body":"lot bigger, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":998.319,"endTime":999.669,"body":"You're concerned about"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":998.319,"endTime":999.669,"body":"the business now."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":999.669,"endTime":1001.209,"body":"You are thinking about"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":999.669,"endTime":1001.209,"body":"financial health, not"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1001.209,"endTime":1003.829,"body":"of just your project,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1001.209,"endTime":1003.829,"body":"but of the organization."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1003.8389999999999,"endTime":1004.949,"body":"You're thinking"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1003.8389999999999,"endTime":1004.949,"body":"about utilization."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1004.959,"endTime":1007.129,"body":"You're trying to figure out"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1004.959,"endTime":1007.129,"body":"how to run a P\u0026L, like it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1007.129,"endTime":1009.4789999999999,"body":"a lot different and it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1007.129,"endTime":1009.4789999999999,"body":"a lot of added pressure."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1009.6089999999999,"endTime":1012.019,"body":"Just the scale at which you"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1009.6089999999999,"endTime":1012.019,"body":"care about things changes."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1012.404,"endTime":1015.524,"body":"I think moving from project"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1012.404,"endTime":1015.524,"body":"management into more program"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1015.524,"endTime":1017.634,"body":"and portfolio management,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1015.524,"endTime":1017.634,"body":"some of the biggest things"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1017.634,"endTime":1020.2239999999999,"body":"that I felt in that jump"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1017.634,"endTime":1020.2239999999999,"body":"were, I mean, I joke around"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1020.4639999999999,"endTime":1021.4839999999999,"body":"about this quite a bit."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1021.684,"endTime":1023.0939999999999,"body":"I call it the cell phone move."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1023.304,"endTime":1025.644,"body":"When you're a project manager,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1023.304,"endTime":1025.644,"body":"you Slack with your team and you"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1025.685,"endTime":1028.095,"body":"work through things nine to five"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1025.685,"endTime":1028.095,"body":"and you give people to do lists"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1028.105,"endTime":1030.044,"body":"and you log off and sometimes"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1028.105,"endTime":1030.044,"body":"you have to come back on."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1030.044,"endTime":1031.893,"body":"But if you open your computer"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1030.044,"endTime":1031.893,"body":"to work at night, you're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1031.893,"endTime":1034.279,"body":"coming into some Slacks that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1031.893,"endTime":1034.279,"body":"are waiting for you and you"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1034.279,"endTime":1035.551,"body":"have your to do list, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1035.846,"endTime":1038.236,"body":"Once you move into program"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1035.846,"endTime":1038.236,"body":"management and into"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1038.236,"endTime":1040.246,"body":"more leadership roles,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1038.236,"endTime":1040.246,"body":"you start giving out"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1040.246,"endTime":1040.906,"body":"your cell phone number."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1041.2060000000001,"endTime":1045.2060000000001,"body":"And people don't care"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1041.2060000000001,"endTime":1045.2060000000001,"body":"if you are, it's 7:30 at"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1045.2060000000001,"endTime":1046.406,"body":"night and you're trying"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1045.2060000000001,"endTime":1046.406,"body":"to get your kids into bed."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1046.406,"endTime":1047.576,"body":"If there's a problem,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1046.406,"endTime":1047.576,"body":"they're going to call"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1047.576,"endTime":1049.276,"body":"you or they'll text you."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1049.4759999999999,"endTime":1051.966,"body":"And you don't you kind of see it"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1049.4759999999999,"endTime":1051.966,"body":"with you a little bit more than"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1051.966,"endTime":1053.336,"body":"you, you did when you were a PM."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1053.741,"endTime":1055.791,"body":"So that was an adjustment"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1053.741,"endTime":1055.791,"body":"for me, for sure."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1055.931,"endTime":1058.271,"body":"I also think the your"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1055.931,"endTime":1058.271,"body":"exposure to leadership"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1058.271,"endTime":1060.811,"body":"at the organization that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1058.271,"endTime":1060.811,"body":"you're in is bigger."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1060.951,"endTime":1063.831,"body":"And so you start to hold"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1060.951,"endTime":1063.831,"body":"yourself differently, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1063.841,"endTime":1066.811,"body":"You're no longer having"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1063.841,"endTime":1066.811,"body":"meetings eight hours"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1066.811,"endTime":1069.141,"body":"a day with a developer"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1066.811,"endTime":1069.141,"body":"in a sweatpants, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1069.141,"endTime":1070.891,"body":"You're starting to have meetings"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1069.141,"endTime":1070.891,"body":"with your executive team."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1070.901,"endTime":1073.341,"body":"You're starting to do more"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1070.901,"endTime":1073.341,"body":"executive level reporting"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1073.341,"endTime":1075.191,"body":"and just presenting"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1073.341,"endTime":1075.191,"body":"yourself differently is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1075.191,"endTime":1076.321,"body":"a big part of it too."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1076.6109999999999,"endTime":1079.211,"body":"Did you find that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1076.6109999999999,"endTime":1079.211,"body":"you were doing it already, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1079.261,"endTime":1082.651,"body":"that was kind of like, icing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1079.261,"endTime":1082.651,"body":"for the organization, but now"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1082.651,"endTime":1085.411,"body":"you're expected to do that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1082.651,"endTime":1085.411,"body":"thing does the pressure change?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1085.411,"endTime":1088.3509999999999,"body":"It's like, now it's not, it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1085.411,"endTime":1088.3509999999999,"body":"so great that you're doing this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1088.3509999999999,"endTime":1090.421,"body":"coaching, mentoring, thinking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1088.3509999999999,"endTime":1090.421,"body":"about the business working on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1090.421,"endTime":1091.3609999999999,"body":"a process, leading the team."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1091.571,"endTime":1094.816,"body":"Now it's like, hey, why"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1091.571,"endTime":1094.816,"body":"aren't you leading the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1094.816,"endTime":1096.896,"body":"team harder, coaching"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1094.816,"endTime":1096.896,"body":"harder, doing this better?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1097.046,"endTime":1099.2259999999999,"body":"Did that pressure change where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1097.046,"endTime":1099.2259999999999,"body":"you're like, Oh, I thought I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1099.2259999999999,"endTime":1101.916,"body":"was doing great before, and now"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1099.2259999999999,"endTime":1101.916,"body":"people are really breathing down"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1101.916,"endTime":1104.126,"body":"my neck to do this thing that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1101.916,"endTime":1104.126,"body":"I thought I was already doing?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1104.446,"endTime":1106.916,"body":"I didn't feel"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1104.446,"endTime":1106.916,"body":"that as much, but I think that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1107.166,"endTime":1109.786,"body":"Galen, you hit the nail on"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1107.166,"endTime":1109.786,"body":"the head earlier when you said"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1109.786,"endTime":1112.776,"body":"that the people who most easily"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1109.786,"endTime":1112.776,"body":"transitioned into this role"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1112.776,"endTime":1113.616,"body":"are the ones who are fearless."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1113.886,"endTime":1114.156,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1114.156,"endTime":1115.826,"body":"The ones who aren't afraid"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1114.156,"endTime":1115.826,"body":"to take on new challenges"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1115.826,"endTime":1118.256,"body":"and say, I'm just gonna take"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1115.826,"endTime":1118.256,"body":"this thing head on I can face"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1118.256,"endTime":1119.306,"body":"this, I will figure it out."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1119.761,"endTime":1121.831,"body":"So, yeah, I think the pressure"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1119.761,"endTime":1121.831,"body":"points change a little bit,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1121.831,"endTime":1123.391,"body":"but you rise from the occasion."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1123.751,"endTime":1125.551,"body":"Are we saying, this is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1123.751,"endTime":1125.551,"body":"my new normal, let's go."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1125.901,"endTime":1126.651,"body":"Tracy, what do you think?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1126.8609999999999,"endTime":1128.311,"body":"One trap I"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1126.8609999999999,"endTime":1128.311,"body":"feel like a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1128.321,"endTime":1130.511,"body":"fall into, especially when"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1128.321,"endTime":1130.511,"body":"they're in that I was doing"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1130.511,"endTime":1133.071,"body":"it and then I moved into it"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1130.511,"endTime":1133.071,"body":"officially, finally, whatever."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1133.3509999999999,"endTime":1136.8709999999999,"body":"You have to let go of your old"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1133.3509999999999,"endTime":1136.8709999999999,"body":"role and don't fall into the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1136.8709999999999,"endTime":1140.941,"body":"trap of, it's now a yes/and"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1136.8709999999999,"endTime":1140.941,"body":"on your old role, because"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1140.961,"endTime":1143.561,"body":"that's where you end up in a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1140.961,"endTime":1143.561,"body":"situation where you're stressed"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1143.561,"endTime":1146.221,"body":"out, you're like, now I'm just"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1143.561,"endTime":1146.221,"body":"doing more and more and more."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1146.491,"endTime":1149.451,"body":"You have to be laser focused on"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1146.491,"endTime":1149.451,"body":"what your new priorities are,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1149.451,"endTime":1152.891,"body":"and you have to delegate and"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1149.451,"endTime":1152.891,"body":"figure out ways to enable the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1152.921,"endTime":1154.3709999999999,"body":"other people to take on things."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1154.651,"endTime":1158.281,"body":"Trust people to do things that"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1154.651,"endTime":1158.281,"body":"maybe they won't do it at the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1158.281,"endTime":1160.541,"body":"same level as you, but they"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1158.281,"endTime":1160.541,"body":"shouldn't because they're not"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1160.541,"endTime":1161.931,"body":"at the same role as you anymore."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1161.981,"endTime":1166.271,"body":"And so like trust in letting"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1161.981,"endTime":1166.271,"body":"your team be better and learn to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1166.301,"endTime":1169.901,"body":"grow themselves so that you can,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1166.301,"endTime":1169.901,"body":"instead of just driving yourself"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1169.901,"endTime":1172.6009999999999,"body":"off a cliff of stress, like"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1169.901,"endTime":1172.6009999999999,"body":"figure out what's most important"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1172.6009999999999,"endTime":1175.626,"body":"for you to spend time on so"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1172.6009999999999,"endTime":1175.626,"body":"that others can take on things"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1175.636,"endTime":1178.206,"body":"that used to be in your purview"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1175.636,"endTime":1178.206,"body":"and no longer need to be."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1178.466,"endTime":1180.206,"body":"I feel like that's a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1178.466,"endTime":1180.206,"body":"really common scenario."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1180.206,"endTime":1182.386,"body":"I feel like the other thing"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1180.206,"endTime":1182.386,"body":"that, happens at various"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1182.386,"endTime":1185.006,"body":"points in people's careers"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1182.386,"endTime":1185.006,"body":"is like, for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1185.016,"endTime":1186.106,"body":"people, they get promoted."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1186.116,"endTime":1190.556,"body":"And if their peers aren't like,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1186.116,"endTime":1190.556,"body":"they become a manager of someone"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1190.556,"endTime":1191.9859999999999,"body":"that used to be their peer."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1191.9859999999999,"endTime":1193.806,"body":"And some people get weird"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1191.9859999999999,"endTime":1193.806,"body":"and anxious about it."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1193.806,"endTime":1195.876,"body":"I remember the first"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1193.806,"endTime":1195.876,"body":"time it happened to me."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1196.106,"endTime":1198.716,"body":"I was like, Oh my God, this"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1196.106,"endTime":1198.716,"body":"person's not going to trust"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1198.716,"endTime":1201.146,"body":"me or believe in me as the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1198.716,"endTime":1201.146,"body":"leader because like last week"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1201.146,"endTime":1203.466,"body":"I was like their peer and"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1201.146,"endTime":1203.466,"body":"we used to bitch about stuff"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1203.466,"endTime":1205.616,"body":"together and now I have to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1203.466,"endTime":1205.616,"body":"have this different lens."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1205.696,"endTime":1207.896,"body":"And the reality is it's"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1205.696,"endTime":1207.896,"body":"only weird if you let it be."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1208.396,"endTime":1211.696,"body":"And I think it really ultimately"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1208.396,"endTime":1211.696,"body":"comes down to just be confident"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1211.696,"endTime":1215.696,"body":"in yourself, know that you"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1211.696,"endTime":1215.696,"body":"were given the title and a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1215.696,"endTime":1218.026,"body":"new role and a new challenge"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1215.696,"endTime":1218.026,"body":"because you've earned it."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1218.346,"endTime":1221.026,"body":"And that as long as you"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1218.346,"endTime":1221.026,"body":"see yourself in that new"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1221.026,"endTime":1224.721,"body":"position and you build a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1221.026,"endTime":1224.721,"body":"still trusting space for the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1224.721,"endTime":1227.211,"body":"people that you're working"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1224.721,"endTime":1227.211,"body":"with naturally, the rest of it"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1227.221,"endTime":1228.581,"body":"will just figure itself out."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1228.841,"endTime":1230.981,"body":"I think those"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1228.841,"endTime":1230.981,"body":"are two huge points, Tracy."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1231.181,"endTime":1231.511,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1231.531,"endTime":1233.551,"body":"I see that the other flip"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1231.531,"endTime":1233.551,"body":"is what we don't talk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1233.561,"endTime":1234.431,"body":"about as much, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1234.461,"endTime":1237.591,"body":"Like you mentioned, you start"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1234.461,"endTime":1237.591,"body":"by doing the next job until you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1237.591,"endTime":1239.041,"body":"get that job, in some cases."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1239.436,"endTime":1241.806,"body":"But then you might spend a bunch"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1239.436,"endTime":1241.806,"body":"of time still doing your old"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1241.816,"endTime":1243.106,"body":"job, and that weighs you down."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1243.106,"endTime":1246.266,"body":"And I've seen people like, yes,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1243.106,"endTime":1246.266,"body":"the trust thing, I 100% agree."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1246.566,"endTime":1249.416,"body":"And also this kind of almost"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1246.566,"endTime":1249.416,"body":"clamoring for familiarity."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1249.446,"endTime":1251.806,"body":"Because, you know, even if"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1249.446,"endTime":1251.806,"body":"you're somebody who's super"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1251.806,"endTime":1254.626,"body":"wired to just address ambiguity"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1251.806,"endTime":1254.626,"body":"and tackle a challenge"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1254.676,"endTime":1257.196,"body":"there's still that sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1254.676,"endTime":1257.196,"body":"desire to be like, here's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1257.196,"endTime":1258.346,"body":"something I really know."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1258.606,"endTime":1261.086,"body":"Everything else is new right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1258.606,"endTime":1261.086,"body":"now, but the thing I know"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1261.286,"endTime":1263.766,"body":"is I can go back to what I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1261.286,"endTime":1263.766,"body":"was doing before and put my"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1263.766,"endTime":1265.296,"body":"hands on that as my rock."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1265.641,"endTime":1267.071,"body":"But sometimes that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1265.641,"endTime":1267.071,"body":"the thing that actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1267.071,"endTime":1267.811,"body":"weighs people down."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1267.821,"endTime":1269.561,"body":"It doesn't let them"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1267.821,"endTime":1269.561,"body":"succeed at their next role."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1269.801,"endTime":1272.021,"body":"And I've seen it happen where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1269.801,"endTime":1272.021,"body":"people you know, they are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1272.191,"endTime":1276.001,"body":"either like demoted or exited"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1272.191,"endTime":1276.001,"body":"after a certain period of time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1276.001,"endTime":1278.201,"body":"because they weren't focused"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1276.001,"endTime":1278.201,"body":"on figuring out the new job."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1278.201,"endTime":1281.711,"body":"They're too fixated on trying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1278.201,"endTime":1281.711,"body":"to, I don't know, preserve"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1281.711,"endTime":1284.471,"body":"the sort of legacy or still"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1281.711,"endTime":1284.471,"body":"have a hand in what they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1284.471,"endTime":1287.346,"body":"were doing before instead of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1284.471,"endTime":1287.346,"body":"focusing on the next thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1287.416,"endTime":1288.806,"body":"That's actually, that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1287.416,"endTime":1288.806,"body":"really interesting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1288.836,"endTime":1291.116,"body":"And I also love that just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1288.836,"endTime":1291.116,"body":"addressing awkwardness head on,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1291.146,"endTime":1291.936,"body":"because I think you're right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1292.056,"endTime":1293.426,"body":"It's happened to me before too."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1293.536,"endTime":1295.4959999999999,"body":"Let's be honest"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1293.536,"endTime":1295.4959999999999,"body":"that like, that challenge"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1295.4959999999999,"endTime":1297.9859999999999,"body":"of letting go of your old"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1295.4959999999999,"endTime":1297.9859999999999,"body":"job is not as hard for"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1297.9859999999999,"endTime":1300.256,"body":"people in other disciplines"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1297.9859999999999,"endTime":1300.256,"body":"or in other practices."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1300.436,"endTime":1301.686,"body":"We're a bunch of control freaks."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1301.9759999999999,"endTime":1303.356,"body":"We want everything perfect."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1303.506,"endTime":1305.276,"body":"We want to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1303.506,"endTime":1305.276,"body":"everything's getting done."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1305.286,"endTime":1309.586,"body":"We're good at what we do"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1305.286,"endTime":1309.586,"body":"because we like to check boxes."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1309.626,"endTime":1312.076,"body":"Because we like to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1309.626,"endTime":1312.076,"body":"finish the day with our"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1312.076,"endTime":1313.2359999999999,"body":"complete and to do list."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1313.2359999999999,"endTime":1314.7459999999999,"body":"We want everything"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1313.2359999999999,"endTime":1314.7459999999999,"body":"to be buttoned up and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1314.7459999999999,"endTime":1315.436,"body":"perfect all the time."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1315.436,"endTime":1316.606,"body":"And it's really hard"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1315.436,"endTime":1316.606,"body":"for us to let go."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1316.796,"endTime":1318.826,"body":"Not just because we're moving"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1316.796,"endTime":1318.826,"body":"into a management position,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1318.876,"endTime":1321.596,"body":"but because it truly is in"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1318.876,"endTime":1321.596,"body":"our DNA to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1321.596,"endTime":1322.606,"body":"everything is taken care of."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1322.856,"endTime":1324.7459999999999,"body":"And so we really"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1322.856,"endTime":1324.7459999999999,"body":"have to focus on it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1324.7459999999999,"endTime":1326.036,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1324.7459999999999,"endTime":1326.036,"body":"you're entirely right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1326.046,"endTime":1327.076,"body":"That resonates a lot."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1327.256,"endTime":1328.806,"body":"One thing that we've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1327.256,"endTime":1328.806,"body":"been talking about is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1328.806,"endTime":1330.906,"body":"just sort of like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1328.806,"endTime":1330.906,"body":"that team mentorship."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1331.166,"endTime":1333.776,"body":"And yes, maybe a bit like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1331.166,"endTime":1333.776,"body":"informally at first, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1333.776,"endTime":1336.7259999999999,"body":"like now in your roles as I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1333.776,"endTime":1336.7259999999999,"body":"understand it, you're quite"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1336.7259999999999,"endTime":1339.506,"body":"deeply involved in planning"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1336.7259999999999,"endTime":1339.506,"body":"the careers of your direct"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1339.506,"endTime":1342.706,"body":"reports, your teams, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1339.506,"endTime":1342.706,"body":"potentially the direct reports"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1342.706,"endTime":1343.546,"body":"of your direct reports."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1343.546,"endTime":1345.866,"body":"I can't remember how many"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1343.546,"endTime":1345.866,"body":"layers there are now, but like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1345.9859999999999,"endTime":1348.206,"body":"thinking through all of this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1345.9859999999999,"endTime":1348.206,"body":"kind of from the other side."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1348.341,"endTime":1351.561,"body":"Looking for that next generation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1348.341,"endTime":1351.561,"body":"of people who are going to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1351.741,"endTime":1354.581,"body":"tackle that challenge and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1351.741,"endTime":1354.581,"body":"get beyond a senior PM role."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1354.661,"endTime":1356.051,"body":"What are some of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1354.661,"endTime":1356.051,"body":"things that you're looking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1356.051,"endTime":1357.8709999999999,"body":"for in those folks?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1357.8709999999999,"endTime":1360.521,"body":"As they get from,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1357.8709999999999,"endTime":1360.521,"body":"especially that project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1360.521,"endTime":1362.911,"body":"management layer into that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1360.521,"endTime":1362.911,"body":"program management layer."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1363.281,"endTime":1364.311,"body":"There are a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1363.281,"endTime":1364.311,"body":"number of different things."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1364.321,"endTime":1366.711,"body":"I think we already talked"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1364.321,"endTime":1366.711,"body":"about the fearless one, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1366.891,"endTime":1370.571,"body":"Not afraid to jump into things"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1366.891,"endTime":1370.571,"body":"that they've never done before,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1370.571,"endTime":1372.161,"body":"taking on challenges head on."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1372.511,"endTime":1374.701,"body":"But to layer onto that a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1372.511,"endTime":1374.701,"body":"little bit more, it's also"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1374.701,"endTime":1376.281,"body":"seeking out new challenges."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1376.301,"endTime":1378.171,"body":"Not waiting for them to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1376.301,"endTime":1378.171,"body":"be handed to you, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1378.291,"endTime":1381.151,"body":"A lot of times we see senior"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1378.291,"endTime":1381.151,"body":"PMs who are waiting for that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1381.151,"endTime":1383.031,"body":"challenge, their make or"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1381.151,"endTime":1383.031,"body":"break project, and waiting for"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1383.031,"endTime":1384.011,"body":"it to hit their dashboards."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1384.186,"endTime":1386.446,"body":"If there's a senior PM"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1384.186,"endTime":1386.446,"body":"who's like, I heard that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1386.446,"endTime":1388.416,"body":"we're working on this"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1386.446,"endTime":1388.416,"body":"thing, I want to take it."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1388.616,"endTime":1388.876,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1388.896,"endTime":1390.206,"body":"That's something I've"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1388.896,"endTime":1390.206,"body":"never done before."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1390.206,"endTime":1391.466,"body":"It's going to push"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1390.206,"endTime":1391.466,"body":"my boundaries."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1391.506,"endTime":1393.846,"body":"These are the areas where I"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1391.506,"endTime":1393.846,"body":"know that I'm going to have"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1393.846,"endTime":1395.606,"body":"to focus and I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1393.846,"endTime":1395.606,"body":"have to like, make sure that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1395.606,"endTime":1397.296,"body":"I'm really buttoned up on"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1395.606,"endTime":1397.296,"body":"because I've never done it"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1397.296,"endTime":1398.536,"body":"before, but give it to me."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1398.666,"endTime":1399.696,"body":"They're going to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1398.666,"endTime":1399.696,"body":"get there faster."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1399.836,"endTime":1400.446,"body":"Promise."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1400.7259999999999,"endTime":1403.346,"body":"And like, seeking out those"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1400.7259999999999,"endTime":1403.346,"body":"challenges is a big one."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1403.546,"endTime":1406.326,"body":"Also, just already showing up"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1403.546,"endTime":1406.326,"body":"as a leader within the team."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1406.326,"endTime":1409.136,"body":"So I said earlier if you solve"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1406.326,"endTime":1409.136,"body":"a problem or come up with a new"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1409.136,"endTime":1411.316,"body":"way of doing something, tell"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1409.136,"endTime":1411.316,"body":"the other people you work with."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1411.326,"endTime":1412.626,"body":"It doesn't matter if"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1411.326,"endTime":1412.626,"body":"they don't report to you."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1412.896,"endTime":1414.816,"body":"It doesn't matter that they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1412.896,"endTime":1414.816,"body":"all your peers and they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1414.816,"endTime":1416.436,"body":"trying to do the same thing"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1414.816,"endTime":1416.436,"body":"that you are every day."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1416.436,"endTime":1417.416,"body":"Just help the team."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1417.706,"endTime":1421.516,"body":"People will already see you as a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1417.706,"endTime":1421.516,"body":"leader if you're actively trying"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1421.516,"endTime":1423.906,"body":"to help the team get better and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1421.516,"endTime":1423.906,"body":"stronger and faster every day."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1424.096,"endTime":1426.286,"body":"And so it does make that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1424.096,"endTime":1426.286,"body":"shift, like Tracy talked about"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1426.286,"endTime":1428.536,"body":"earlier, that awkward now"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1426.286,"endTime":1428.536,"body":"you're managing your peers."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1428.876,"endTime":1430.696,"body":"That becomes less"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1428.876,"endTime":1430.696,"body":"awkward if they already"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1430.696,"endTime":1431.4859999999999,"body":"see you as a leader."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1431.781,"endTime":1432.781,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1431.781,"endTime":1432.781,"body":"super important."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1432.831,"endTime":1435.211,"body":"I feel like it's that"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1432.831,"endTime":1435.211,"body":"hunger for the next thing."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1435.221,"endTime":1438.921,"body":"It's also showing the maturity"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1435.221,"endTime":1438.921,"body":"that you understand what"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1438.931,"endTime":1440.1009999999999,"body":"you're trying to go after."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1440.1009999999999,"endTime":1443.271,"body":"So again, as program managers,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1440.1009999999999,"endTime":1443.271,"body":"like you're so much more"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1443.271,"endTime":1445.921,"body":"T-shaped, you're not only"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1443.271,"endTime":1445.921,"body":"focused on output, but you're"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1445.921,"endTime":1447.591,"body":"really now focused on outcomes."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1448.001,"endTime":1450.561,"body":"You need to understand what's"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1448.001,"endTime":1450.561,"body":"the right altitude that"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1450.561,"endTime":1451.541,"body":"you want to be sitting at."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1451.541,"endTime":1454.541,"body":"I think one thing that's really"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1451.541,"endTime":1454.541,"body":"hard for certain people is, Pam"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1454.541,"endTime":1457.711,"body":"and I talk about this a lot,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1454.541,"endTime":1457.711,"body":"being a program manager is not"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1457.751,"endTime":1461.1109999999999,"body":"at all the same thing as being"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1457.751,"endTime":1461.1109999999999,"body":"a super senior project manager."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1461.1109999999999,"endTime":1463.271,"body":"Like it really is a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1461.1109999999999,"endTime":1463.271,"body":"very different role with"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1463.271,"endTime":1464.181,"body":"different priorities."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1464.231,"endTime":1467.1209999999999,"body":"And for example, you now really"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1464.231,"endTime":1467.1209999999999,"body":"need to care about governance."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1467.251,"endTime":1470.231,"body":"So if you have multiple"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1467.251,"endTime":1470.231,"body":"projects, if there's multiple"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1470.231,"endTime":1473.291,"body":"PMs that are on it, do they have"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1470.231,"endTime":1473.291,"body":"a standard and consistent way"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1473.291,"endTime":1475.811,"body":"of working so that our clients"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1473.291,"endTime":1475.811,"body":"feel like they have the same"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1475.811,"endTime":1477.451,"body":"experience project to project?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1477.631,"endTime":1481.181,"body":"Do you have avenues for leaders"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1477.631,"endTime":1481.181,"body":"to have visibility on how you're"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1481.181,"endTime":1484.3509999999999,"body":"doing programmatically and know"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1481.181,"endTime":1484.3509999999999,"body":"how that they can tap in and"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1484.3509999999999,"endTime":1487.931,"body":"ask you questions about things"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1484.3509999999999,"endTime":1487.931,"body":"that are going on and you know"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1487.931,"endTime":1490.921,"body":"all of the details that you need"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1487.931,"endTime":1490.921,"body":"to know without being bogged"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1490.941,"endTime":1492.281,"body":"down too much in the weeds?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1492.541,"endTime":1496.181,"body":"Also, like risk management,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1492.541,"endTime":1496.181,"body":"do you understand all the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1496.181,"endTime":1498.061,"body":"different types of risks"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1496.181,"endTime":1498.061,"body":"that are out there and"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1498.071,"endTime":1499.331,"body":"which ones to care about."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1499.331,"endTime":1501.951,"body":"And when do I go to Pam"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1499.331,"endTime":1501.951,"body":"and say, Pam, you really"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1501.951,"endTime":1504.331,"body":"need to freaking care about"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1501.951,"endTime":1504.331,"body":"this thing or I really need"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1504.331,"endTime":1506.6209999999999,"body":"your help in figuring out"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1504.331,"endTime":1506.6209999999999,"body":"how we solve this thing."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1506.681,"endTime":1509.841,"body":"Versus, hey, this is something"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1506.681,"endTime":1509.841,"body":"that I want the teams to solve"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1509.841,"endTime":1512.341,"body":"or I need to go elsewhere for"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1509.841,"endTime":1512.341,"body":"the other teams know about it."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1512.581,"endTime":1515.6209999999999,"body":"Having an understanding about"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1512.581,"endTime":1515.6209999999999,"body":"what risks impact the org versus"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1515.631,"endTime":1518.3509999999999,"body":"the team versus the program"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1515.631,"endTime":1518.3509999999999,"body":"and who needs to know what like"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1518.3709999999999,"endTime":1521.031,"body":"that is such a huge important"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1518.3709999999999,"endTime":1521.031,"body":"part of the day to day."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1521.201,"endTime":1523.3709999999999,"body":"I love the word"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1521.201,"endTime":1523.3709999999999,"body":"altitude as well and that it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1523.3709999999999,"endTime":1527.3709999999999,"body":"like selectable like find the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1523.3709999999999,"endTime":1527.3709999999999,"body":"one that works for you and then"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1527.3709999999999,"endTime":1529.471,"body":"there's kind of like I don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1527.3709999999999,"endTime":1529.471,"body":"know what I envision that just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1529.471,"endTime":1530.8609999999999,"body":"like sorting hats in a way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1531.156,"endTime":1533.4759999999999,"body":"Or it's just kind of like, cool"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1531.156,"endTime":1533.4759999999999,"body":"is this something I escalate?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1533.4959999999999,"endTime":1535.066,"body":"Is this something I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1533.4959999999999,"endTime":1535.066,"body":"let the team solve?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1535.156,"endTime":1536.656,"body":"Is this something"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1535.156,"endTime":1536.656,"body":"I solve myself?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1536.806,"endTime":1538.9859999999999,"body":"But also the lens of you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1536.806,"endTime":1538.9859999999999,"body":"right, the business lens, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1538.9859999999999,"endTime":1541.826,"body":"At the program level, it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1538.9859999999999,"endTime":1541.826,"body":"almost requires a business"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1541.826,"endTime":1544.416,"body":"understanding, either of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1541.826,"endTime":1544.416,"body":"your client's business or of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1544.416,"endTime":1548.126,"body":"your own business or agency,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1544.416,"endTime":1548.126,"body":"and where you fit in there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1548.3509999999999,"endTime":1550.801,"body":"One thing I wanted to come back"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1548.3509999999999,"endTime":1550.801,"body":"to Tracy, you were just curious."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1550.801,"endTime":1552.511,"body":"You were like, I need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1550.801,"endTime":1552.511,"body":"understand how this works."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1552.511,"endTime":1554.911,"body":"I need to understand, why"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1552.511,"endTime":1554.911,"body":"utilization is important."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1554.931,"endTime":1557.261,"body":"Why like this sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1554.931,"endTime":1557.261,"body":"program and the program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1557.261,"endTime":1559.581,"body":"scheduling and, and, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1557.261,"endTime":1559.581,"body":"sort of resource allocation."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1559.8609999999999,"endTime":1562.1009999999999,"body":"And you sought that out or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1559.8609999999999,"endTime":1562.1009999999999,"body":"in terms of understanding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1562.1109999999999,"endTime":1562.931,"body":"the business better."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1563.216,"endTime":1565.576,"body":"Did you have any mentors"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1563.216,"endTime":1565.576,"body":"yourself or people that you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1565.576,"endTime":1568.386,"body":"would call on to be like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1565.576,"endTime":1568.386,"body":"Hey, my friend in finance,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1568.416,"endTime":1570.266,"body":"tell me more about this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1568.416,"endTime":1570.266,"body":"thing so I get it more."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1570.526,"endTime":1571.006,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1571.006,"endTime":1572.776,"body":"Actually, that is"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1571.006,"endTime":1572.776,"body":"a huge part of it."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1572.786,"endTime":1576.126,"body":"I mean, one of my very first"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1572.786,"endTime":1576.126,"body":"jobs, like the reason why I"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1576.136,"endTime":1579.2459999999999,"body":"got it is because the person"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1576.136,"endTime":1579.2459999999999,"body":"hiring, it was an internal"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1579.426,"endTime":1580.946,"body":"hire within the organization."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1580.956,"endTime":1583.436,"body":"She's like, you're the only"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1580.956,"endTime":1583.436,"body":"person that went to the person"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1583.436,"endTime":1586.106,"body":"actively doing the job and said,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1583.436,"endTime":1586.106,"body":"what do you actually think this"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1586.106,"endTime":1588.216,"body":"job is like, and what do you"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1586.106,"endTime":1588.216,"body":"really need to be successful"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1588.216,"endTime":1590.636,"body":"and what truly matters to do"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1588.216,"endTime":1590.636,"body":"this job well in your eyes."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1591.011,"endTime":1593.481,"body":"And so finding those"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1591.011,"endTime":1593.481,"body":"relationships of people"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1593.481,"endTime":1596.391,"body":"that you can ask and try to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1593.481,"endTime":1596.391,"body":"understand what they care"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1596.391,"endTime":1597.6009999999999,"body":"about is really helpful."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1597.631,"endTime":1600.761,"body":"There's some like tactical stuff"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1597.631,"endTime":1600.761,"body":"you can do to like, I literally"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1600.761,"endTime":1604.491,"body":"took a short course on, I think"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1600.761,"endTime":1604.491,"body":"it was like financial management"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1604.501,"endTime":1607.8709999999999,"body":"for non finance managers or"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1604.501,"endTime":1607.8709999999999,"body":"something like that to just help"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1607.8709999999999,"endTime":1613.771,"body":"me understand the sort of MBA"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1607.8709999999999,"endTime":1613.771,"body":"101 of how businesses are run."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1613.821,"endTime":1616.381,"body":"So when people are talking about"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1613.821,"endTime":1616.381,"body":"PNLs and all this stuff, I'm"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1616.381,"endTime":1617.631,"body":"like, what the hell is a PNL?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1617.641,"endTime":1620.481,"body":"I figured that stuff"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1617.641,"endTime":1620.481,"body":"out through discovery."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1620.671,"endTime":1625.126,"body":"And I think that what is also"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1620.671,"endTime":1625.126,"body":"so important is, when you're"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1625.126,"endTime":1627.576,"body":"in a business, everybody"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1625.126,"endTime":1627.576,"body":"has priorities, right?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1627.576,"endTime":1629.766,"body":"And so with the managing"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1627.576,"endTime":1629.766,"body":"directors that I'm working"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1629.766,"endTime":1633.396,"body":"with today, I know what they're"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1629.766,"endTime":1633.396,"body":"focused on and the conversations"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1633.396,"endTime":1636.4959999999999,"body":"that they have to have with"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1633.396,"endTime":1636.4959999999999,"body":"other people week by week about"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1636.506,"endTime":1637.926,"body":"what they're being asked for."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1637.926,"endTime":1640.416,"body":"So I need to make sure I"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1637.926,"endTime":1640.416,"body":"understand their priorities."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1640.436,"endTime":1642.9759999999999,"body":"So I bring the right type of"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1640.436,"endTime":1642.9759999999999,"body":"information to enable them."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1643.256,"endTime":1646.796,"body":"And so if you don't understand"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1643.256,"endTime":1646.796,"body":"how a business works in general,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1647.006,"endTime":1649.396,"body":"it's really hard for you to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1647.006,"endTime":1649.396,"body":"understand the priorities"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1649.396,"endTime":1650.386,"body":"of all of those roles."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1650.406,"endTime":1653.2459999999999,"body":"So make relationships where"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1650.406,"endTime":1653.2459999999999,"body":"you can ask those types of"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1653.2459999999999,"endTime":1656.056,"body":"questions, write shit down you"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1653.2459999999999,"endTime":1656.056,"body":"don't understand and try to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1656.056,"endTime":1659.306,"body":"figure it out and look it up"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1656.056,"endTime":1659.306,"body":"and just understand that knowing"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1659.536,"endTime":1662.7259999999999,"body":"the vision for like, how do we"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1659.536,"endTime":1662.7259999999999,"body":"scope and sell our projects?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1662.7359999999999,"endTime":1665.196,"body":"How does the finances"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1662.7359999999999,"endTime":1665.196,"body":"impact these other"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1665.196,"endTime":1666.156,"body":"decisions that we make?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1666.2359999999999,"endTime":1669.166,"body":"How does the shift of resources"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1666.2359999999999,"endTime":1669.166,"body":"change the way that we're"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1669.4759999999999,"endTime":1672.446,"body":"recognizing things as a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1669.4759999999999,"endTime":1672.446,"body":"business all go such a long way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1672.686,"endTime":1674.186,"body":"Just to round"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1672.686,"endTime":1674.186,"body":"things up, there's one thing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1674.186,"endTime":1677.436,"body":"that we haven't really been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1674.186,"endTime":1677.436,"body":"talking about and that's just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1677.446,"endTime":1681.096,"body":"that in this current market,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1677.446,"endTime":1681.096,"body":"maybe in a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1681.096,"endTime":1685.526,"body":"sort of job climates, like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1681.096,"endTime":1685.526,"body":"not every organization is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1685.546,"endTime":1688.786,"body":"going to be able to promote"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1685.546,"endTime":1688.786,"body":"somebody beyond senior PM."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1689.056,"endTime":1691.7259999999999,"body":"Also in tandem with that, like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1689.056,"endTime":1691.7259999999999,"body":"people will listen to this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1691.7259999999999,"endTime":1693.876,"body":"podcast and suddenly you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1691.7259999999999,"endTime":1693.876,"body":"going to have five go getters"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1693.876,"endTime":1696.826,"body":"who are, fearless, like tackling"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1693.876,"endTime":1696.826,"body":"challenges, coaching their team."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1697.201,"endTime":1701.451,"body":"And there might not be five"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1697.201,"endTime":1701.451,"body":"openings, at that next step."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1701.561,"endTime":1704.301,"body":"But I'm just thinking through"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1701.561,"endTime":1704.301,"body":"like, yeah, I mean, we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1704.301,"endTime":1706.401,"body":"framing this as promotions"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1704.301,"endTime":1706.401,"body":"and we're framing this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1706.401,"endTime":1707.3609999999999,"body":"as climbing the ladder."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1707.3609999999999,"endTime":1710.221,"body":"I think we're wired to do that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1707.3609999999999,"endTime":1710.221,"body":"like in our work culture here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1710.521,"endTime":1712.881,"body":"But for folks who are at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1710.521,"endTime":1712.881,"body":"the senior PM level right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1712.881,"endTime":1715.311,"body":"now are there ways that they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1712.881,"endTime":1715.311,"body":"can keep growing in their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1715.311,"endTime":1718.381,"body":"careers and like expanding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1715.311,"endTime":1718.381,"body":"their skill sets, even in a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1718.381,"endTime":1721.181,"body":"situation where maybe there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1718.381,"endTime":1721.181,"body":"like a freeze on promotions"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1721.181,"endTime":1724.081,"body":"or that like next role might"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1721.181,"endTime":1724.081,"body":"not be available to them?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1724.081,"endTime":1728.051,"body":"Like how can they keep growing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1724.081,"endTime":1728.051,"body":"even if there's no role for them"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1728.051,"endTime":1729.151,"body":"to step into like right now?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1729.411,"endTime":1730.491,"body":"We've been"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1729.411,"endTime":1730.491,"body":"talking about this a lot."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1730.721,"endTime":1733.311,"body":"So the step from project"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1730.721,"endTime":1733.311,"body":"manager to program manager is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1733.311,"endTime":1735.6209999999999,"body":"usually as needed step, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1735.6209999999999,"endTime":1738.431,"body":"It's one where you get promoted"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1735.6209999999999,"endTime":1738.431,"body":"into it when there's an opening."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1738.806,"endTime":1741.416,"body":"And that's the kind of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1738.806,"endTime":1741.416,"body":"first time in our careers"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1741.416,"endTime":1742.096,"body":"that that's the case."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1742.286,"endTime":1744.626,"body":"Up until then moving from"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1742.286,"endTime":1744.626,"body":"a coordinator and associate"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1744.626,"endTime":1746.686,"body":"into a project manager and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1744.626,"endTime":1746.686,"body":"senior project manager."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1746.916,"endTime":1748.676,"body":"Those are all promotions"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1746.916,"endTime":1748.676,"body":"that are all performance"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1748.676,"endTime":1749.4859999999999,"body":"based, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1749.626,"endTime":1751.136,"body":"You're ready to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1749.626,"endTime":1751.136,"body":"do the next thing."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1751.146,"endTime":1751.706,"body":"Here you go."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1751.886,"endTime":1755.9859999999999,"body":"It isn't dependent on your"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1751.886,"endTime":1755.9859999999999,"body":"makeup of accounts and projects."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1755.9859999999999,"endTime":1758.896,"body":"It isn't dependent on kind"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1755.9859999999999,"endTime":1758.896,"body":"of even like the financial"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1758.896,"endTime":1759.626,"body":"state of your business."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1759.626,"endTime":1761.4959999999999,"body":"It isn't dependent on"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1759.626,"endTime":1761.4959999999999,"body":"what your pipeline and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1761.4959999999999,"endTime":1762.316,"body":"your forecast looks like."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1762.501,"endTime":1764.3509999999999,"body":"It's dependent on when"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1762.501,"endTime":1764.3509999999999,"body":"you're ready for it."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1764.511,"endTime":1767.6209999999999,"body":"And then moving into program,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1764.511,"endTime":1767.6209999999999,"body":"it is completely dependent on"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1767.631,"endTime":1768.971,"body":"do I have a program for you."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1769.331,"endTime":1773.261,"body":"And so we've been talking a lot"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1769.331,"endTime":1773.261,"body":"about like how do we, because"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1773.261,"endTime":1776.701,"body":"we have a lot of, at Hero, a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1773.261,"endTime":1776.701,"body":"lot of really strong senior PMs."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1776.971,"endTime":1780.561,"body":"And there isn't a program"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1776.971,"endTime":1780.561,"body":"opening right now, but I also"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1780.561,"endTime":1783.881,"body":"don't want those people to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1780.561,"endTime":1783.881,"body":"this team of really strong,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1784.071,"endTime":1788.141,"body":"skilled, critical thinking"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1784.071,"endTime":1788.141,"body":"senior project managers to feel"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1788.161,"endTime":1790.971,"body":"stagnant, or feel like they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1788.161,"endTime":1790.971,"body":"not being pushed, or feel like"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1790.971,"endTime":1792.661,"body":"they've plateaued at Hero."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1792.911,"endTime":1794.751,"body":"I certainly don't want them"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1792.911,"endTime":1794.751,"body":"thinking that they need to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1794.751,"endTime":1796.1209999999999,"body":"leave to get new opportunities."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1796.6109999999999,"endTime":1799.1209999999999,"body":"So, we want to find new ways"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1796.6109999999999,"endTime":1799.1209999999999,"body":"to give them new challenges,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1799.271,"endTime":1801.731,"body":"keep them stimulated, feel"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1799.271,"endTime":1801.731,"body":"like they're continuing"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1801.731,"endTime":1802.731,"body":"to advance their careers."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1802.8509999999999,"endTime":1805.331,"body":"Things like cross training"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1802.8509999999999,"endTime":1805.331,"body":"into different technologies,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1805.3609999999999,"endTime":1807.391,"body":"into different types"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1805.3609999999999,"endTime":1807.391,"body":"of projects, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1807.591,"endTime":1809.821,"body":"You've never run a commerce"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1807.591,"endTime":1809.821,"body":"project before, it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1809.821,"endTime":1812.471,"body":"completely different from"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1809.821,"endTime":1812.471,"body":"building a marketing site."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1812.841,"endTime":1814.131,"body":"New challenge, take it."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1814.3609999999999,"endTime":1816.661,"body":"You've never worked"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1814.3609999999999,"endTime":1816.661,"body":"with any clients in this"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1816.691,"endTime":1817.761,"body":"industry before, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1817.761,"endTime":1818.881,"body":"Like you've never"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1817.761,"endTime":1818.881,"body":"worked in healthcare."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1818.881,"endTime":1821.161,"body":"It's completely different"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1818.881,"endTime":1821.161,"body":"from working with the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1821.171,"endTime":1822.461,"body":"CMO of a retail brand."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1822.681,"endTime":1823.221,"body":"Take it."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1823.381,"endTime":1825.431,"body":"Like cross training into"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1823.381,"endTime":1825.431,"body":"different types of work,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1825.431,"endTime":1826.261,"body":"I think it's a big one."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1826.501,"endTime":1828.761,"body":"Also giving people"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1826.501,"endTime":1828.761,"body":"leadership opportunities"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1828.761,"endTime":1829.581,"body":"within the company."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1829.791,"endTime":1833.206,"body":"If you've got like work"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1829.791,"endTime":1833.206,"body":"constantly doing different"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1833.216,"endTime":1836.306,"body":"internal initiatives and pulling"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1833.216,"endTime":1836.306,"body":"in our project managers and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1836.306,"endTime":1838.536,"body":"our senior project managers"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1836.306,"endTime":1838.536,"body":"to help with those things."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1838.716,"endTime":1840.666,"body":"Like the first thing that comes"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1838.716,"endTime":1840.666,"body":"to mind is we just went with"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1840.666,"endTime":1843.146,"body":"that Trace last year that we"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1840.666,"endTime":1843.146,"body":"redid all of our templates and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1843.146,"endTime":1846.376,"body":"created a new template library"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1843.146,"endTime":1846.376,"body":"with all of our status reports,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1846.376,"endTime":1849.261,"body":"our RAID logs, our deliverables"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1846.376,"endTime":1849.261,"body":"trackers and everything."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1849.531,"endTime":1853.921,"body":"And we had this kind of a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1849.531,"endTime":1853.921,"body":"program layer leader sitting"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1854.131,"endTime":1856.261,"body":"on the initiative as the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1854.131,"endTime":1856.261,"body":"initiative owner, but the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1856.261,"endTime":1857.591,"body":"work was done by senior PMs."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1857.8509999999999,"endTime":1860.341,"body":"And they were the ones sitting"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1857.8509999999999,"endTime":1860.341,"body":"in front of the team saying,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1860.3509999999999,"endTime":1861.731,"body":"here's our new template library."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1861.961,"endTime":1863.451,"body":"Here's when you're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1861.961,"endTime":1863.451,"body":"going to use it, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1863.521,"endTime":1865.781,"body":"The senior PMs were rolling"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1863.521,"endTime":1865.781,"body":"it out to the team, not"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1865.781,"endTime":1866.761,"body":"the program director."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1866.951,"endTime":1870.261,"body":"And so giving them opportunities"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1866.951,"endTime":1870.261,"body":"to be a leader at the company,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1870.261,"endTime":1873.281,"body":"even without the title, so"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1870.261,"endTime":1873.281,"body":"that they gain exposure, they"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1873.431,"endTime":1875.531,"body":"continue to grow in different"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1873.431,"endTime":1875.531,"body":"ways that aren't project"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1875.531,"endTime":1877.811,"body":"related, that they would"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1875.531,"endTime":1877.811,"body":"experience if they were in that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1877.811,"endTime":1880.291,"body":"program manager role giving"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1877.811,"endTime":1880.291,"body":"them those growth opportunities,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1880.291,"endTime":1881.001,"body":"I think is important."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1881.391,"endTime":1883.241,"body":"I love that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1881.391,"endTime":1883.241,"body":"because it also, it is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1883.241,"endTime":1885.451,"body":"often the case where you get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1883.241,"endTime":1885.451,"body":"the next role, or somebody"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1885.451,"endTime":1887.161,"body":"ascends to that next role."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1887.426,"endTime":1890.326,"body":"But they haven't really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1887.426,"endTime":1890.326,"body":"got the training of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1890.326,"endTime":1892.386,"body":"the sort of management"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1890.326,"endTime":1892.386,"body":"leadership part of it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1892.436,"endTime":1894.7459999999999,"body":"And I know a lot of orgs"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1892.436,"endTime":1894.7459999999999,"body":"are trying to focus more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1894.7459999999999,"endTime":1897.296,"body":"on leadership training,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1894.7459999999999,"endTime":1897.296,"body":"but especially in an agency"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1897.296,"endTime":1898.286,"body":"context, I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1898.286,"endTime":1898.4859999999999,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1898.4959999999999,"endTime":1901.286,"body":"Cause it still gives you that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1898.4959999999999,"endTime":1901.286,"body":"you know, the visibility on a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1901.296,"endTime":1904.026,"body":"project that is valuable to the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1901.296,"endTime":1904.026,"body":"business, not just client work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1904.2459999999999,"endTime":1906.816,"body":"And you get to exercise this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1904.2459999999999,"endTime":1906.816,"body":"sort of like leadership skills"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1906.876,"endTime":1909.826,"body":"and bolster your profile,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1906.876,"endTime":1909.826,"body":"that we mentioned earlier"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1909.826,"endTime":1912.366,"body":"about the more you demonstrate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1909.826,"endTime":1912.366,"body":"leadership, the more sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1912.406,"endTime":1916.091,"body":"obvious and natural it will be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1912.406,"endTime":1916.091,"body":"when you do get that next role."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1916.141,"endTime":1918.051,"body":"And because everyone's like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1916.141,"endTime":1918.051,"body":"Oh yeah, that person is a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1918.051,"endTime":1919.131,"body":"leader, like well earned."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1919.636,"endTime":1920.936,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1921.076,"endTime":1923.4859999999999,"body":"I already beat the drum on"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1921.076,"endTime":1923.4859999999999,"body":"financial literacy, so I won't"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1923.4859999999999,"endTime":1924.936,"body":"go into a tangent on that again."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1925.016,"endTime":1928.216,"body":"But, the other thing, feedback"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1925.016,"endTime":1928.216,"body":"I heard when I was early on,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1928.2259999999999,"endTime":1930.466,"body":"which always used to frustrate"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1928.2259999999999,"endTime":1930.466,"body":"me so much, is people would"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1930.4759999999999,"endTime":1933.156,"body":"be like, if you're a PM, you"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1930.4759999999999,"endTime":1933.156,"body":"just gotta be more strategic."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1933.166,"endTime":1935.4759999999999,"body":"And you're like, I'm a PM,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1933.166,"endTime":1935.4759999999999,"body":"I think in black and white,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1935.4759999999999,"endTime":1936.776,"body":"what do you mean strategic?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1936.776,"endTime":1937.926,"body":"Give me tactical stuff."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1937.9759999999999,"endTime":1940.636,"body":"And that's a frustrating thing,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1937.9759999999999,"endTime":1940.636,"body":"I think, for a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1940.646,"endTime":1943.046,"body":"earlier in their careers, to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1940.646,"endTime":1943.046,"body":"wrap their brains around that."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1943.181,"endTime":1945.891,"body":"But it really comes down"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1943.181,"endTime":1945.891,"body":"to like, for example, if"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1945.891,"endTime":1949.401,"body":"you're someone who today"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1945.891,"endTime":1949.401,"body":"helps execute projects, get"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1949.401,"endTime":1952.921,"body":"involved in as much upfront"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1949.401,"endTime":1952.921,"body":"vision definition and scoping"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1952.921,"endTime":1954.061,"body":"for projects as you can."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1954.061,"endTime":1956.971,"body":"So you can understand what were"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1954.061,"endTime":1956.971,"body":"the goals of what this client's"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1957.001,"endTime":1958.201,"body":"trying to actually accomplish?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1958.201,"endTime":1961.291,"body":"And then how did we come up with"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1958.201,"endTime":1961.291,"body":"the right approach for them?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1961.341,"endTime":1964.091,"body":"Not everything we offer is the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1961.341,"endTime":1964.091,"body":"same cookie cutter approach."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1964.091,"endTime":1968.181,"body":"So the more I can understand"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1964.091,"endTime":1968.181,"body":"how the vision turns into"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1968.181,"endTime":1971.1109999999999,"body":"reality, the more I can"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1968.181,"endTime":1971.1109999999999,"body":"start to follow that line and"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1971.1109999999999,"endTime":1972.551,"body":"build a narrative for myself."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1972.811,"endTime":1975.501,"body":"I also think it's worthwhile"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1972.811,"endTime":1975.501,"body":"to take a moment and look at"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1975.501,"endTime":1980.1109999999999,"body":"your project and reflect on"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1975.501,"endTime":1980.1109999999999,"body":"how your project matters in"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1980.1109999999999,"endTime":1981.451,"body":"the context of the business."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1981.491,"endTime":1985.131,"body":"So like, how does your project"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1981.491,"endTime":1985.131,"body":"align to whatever your current"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1985.141,"endTime":1988.781,"body":"company goals are or what your"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1985.141,"endTime":1988.781,"body":"client's business goals are?"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1988.941,"endTime":1991.391,"body":"If you don't know that answer,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1988.941,"endTime":1991.391,"body":"you better figure that out."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1991.401,"endTime":1993.551,"body":"Because if you don't know what"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1991.401,"endTime":1993.551,"body":"your client's goals are for"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1993.551,"endTime":1996.2259999999999,"body":"why you're trying to accomplish"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1993.551,"endTime":1996.2259999999999,"body":"something like that's one of the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1996.2259999999999,"endTime":1997.546,"body":"first things that you can do."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1997.586,"endTime":1999.616,"body":"And so again, I went"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1997.586,"endTime":1999.616,"body":"back to that, like small"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":1999.636,"endTime":2000.9959999999999,"body":"business owner analogy."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2001.126,"endTime":2003.4759999999999,"body":"If you were running the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2001.126,"endTime":2003.4759999999999,"body":"business, where would you"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2003.4759999999999,"endTime":2006.276,"body":"want to spend more time and"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2003.4759999999999,"endTime":2006.276,"body":"add more value and just start"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2006.326,"endTime":2009.716,"body":"thinking about those moments to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2006.326,"endTime":2009.716,"body":"try to just get more practice"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2009.756,"endTime":2012.636,"body":"and thinking about something"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2009.756,"endTime":2012.636,"body":"with a more strategic lens."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2013.081,"endTime":2017.451,"body":"Doing that will help you"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2013.081,"endTime":2017.451,"body":"come off again as a more cool"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2017.451,"endTime":2020.921,"body":"and calm and composed leader"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2017.451,"endTime":2020.921,"body":"because you \"get it\" a little"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2020.941,"endTime":2022.8609999999999,"body":"bit more than some of the"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2020.941,"endTime":2022.8609999999999,"body":"other people around you do."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2022.8609999999999,"endTime":2026.171,"body":"And so all of those things"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2022.8609999999999,"endTime":2026.171,"body":"together, I think, really are"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2026.171,"endTime":2028.941,"body":"some of the things you can start"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2026.171,"endTime":2028.941,"body":"to do in the near term to line"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2028.941,"endTime":2030.231,"body":"yourself up for what's next."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2030.6009999999999,"endTime":2032.501,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2030.6009999999999,"endTime":2032.501,"body":"layering on to that, Tracy,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2032.521,"endTime":2034.321,"body":"you talked about this a little"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2032.521,"endTime":2034.321,"body":"bit earlier, too, about like"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2034.341,"endTime":2037.031,"body":"prioritizing and understanding"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2034.341,"endTime":2037.031,"body":"like what you need to focus on."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2037.426,"endTime":2040.796,"body":"I think defining what"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2037.426,"endTime":2040.796,"body":"good enough looks like and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2040.806,"endTime":2043.7359999999999,"body":"being okay with it is a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2040.806,"endTime":2043.7359999999999,"body":"big piece of it too, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2043.7459999999999,"endTime":2047.026,"body":"Like, when we all, like, when"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2043.7459999999999,"endTime":2047.026,"body":"project managers get underwater,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2047.026,"endTime":2049.306,"body":"when they're really busy,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2047.026,"endTime":2049.306,"body":"you start to deprioritize"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2049.386,"endTime":2051.3160000000003,"body":"the stuff that is actually"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2049.386,"endTime":2051.3160000000003,"body":"really important, but it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2051.366,"endTime":2052.706,"body":"easy to deprioritize, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2052.706,"endTime":2054.476,"body":"You stop sending out"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2052.706,"endTime":2054.476,"body":"weekly status reports."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2054.896,"endTime":2056.636,"body":"You stop keeping your"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2054.896,"endTime":2056.636,"body":"RAID log updated."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2056.716,"endTime":2059.5860000000002,"body":"These are fundamental"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2056.716,"endTime":2059.5860000000002,"body":"things that have to happen."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2059.766,"endTime":2062.856,"body":"And when you move into the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2059.766,"endTime":2062.856,"body":"program layer, that amplifies."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2063.301,"endTime":2065.371,"body":"But only having so much"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2063.301,"endTime":2065.371,"body":"time in the day and focusing"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2065.371,"endTime":2068.501,"body":"on what really matters is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2065.371,"endTime":2068.501,"body":"even harder at that level."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2068.501,"endTime":2070.7110000000002,"body":"Because you still want to do the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2068.501,"endTime":2070.7110000000002,"body":"crap that you were doing before."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2070.7110000000002,"endTime":2072.931,"body":"You still want to fill out"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2070.7110000000002,"endTime":2072.931,"body":"your weekly status report."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2072.931,"endTime":2074.6710000000003,"body":"You still want to say,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2072.931,"endTime":2074.6710000000003,"body":"Oh, I found a risk."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2074.6710000000003,"endTime":2076.221,"body":"I'm going to go put it"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2074.6710000000003,"endTime":2076.221,"body":"in the RAID log, like the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2076.221,"endTime":2077.251,"body":"PMs have to take that."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2077.411,"endTime":2079.951,"body":"So starting to build"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2077.411,"endTime":2079.951,"body":"that muscle of that thing"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2079.9610000000002,"endTime":2081.3010000000004,"body":"matters, that thing doesn't."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2081.6110000000003,"endTime":2084.491,"body":"And this is why when you're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2081.6110000000003,"endTime":2084.491,"body":"in a project manager role,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2084.6510000000003,"endTime":2086.221,"body":"it's going to set you up"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2084.6510000000003,"endTime":2086.221,"body":"for success when you get no"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2086.221,"endTime":2088.251,"body":"program layer, you're not"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2086.221,"endTime":2088.251,"body":"trying to take everything on."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2088.561,"endTime":2091.3210000000004,"body":"You're saying, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2088.561,"endTime":2091.3210000000004,"body":"let the devs solve this problem"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2091.3210000000004,"endTime":2093.561,"body":"without me sitting on a Zoom"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2091.3210000000004,"endTime":2093.561,"body":"call watching them, because I"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2093.5710000000004,"endTime":2095.0310000000004,"body":"have to do my status report."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2095.231,"endTime":2095.971,"body":"That's important."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2096.081,"endTime":2097.451,"body":"And I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2096.081,"endTime":2097.451,"body":"trust them to do this."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2097.501,"endTime":2100.6310000000003,"body":"And start trusting your team,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2097.501,"endTime":2100.6310000000003,"body":"start letting go, start building"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2100.6310000000003,"endTime":2102.601,"body":"safety nets underneath the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2100.6310000000003,"endTime":2102.601,"body":"people you're working with, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2102.601,"endTime":2103.771,"body":"let them fall into the nets."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2103.771,"endTime":2106.2810000000004,"body":"Don't catch them right away,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2103.771,"endTime":2106.2810000000004,"body":"because that's, you have to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2106.2810000000004,"endTime":2107.331,"body":"do that in a program layer."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2107.331,"endTime":2109.521,"body":"You have to be comfortable with"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2107.331,"endTime":2109.521,"body":"people potentially failing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2109.951,"endTime":2112.1310000000003,"body":"I love that and I've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2109.951,"endTime":2112.1310000000003,"body":"seen a lot of folks fall into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2112.1310000000003,"endTime":2114.721,"body":"that trap of creating this sense"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2112.1310000000003,"endTime":2114.721,"body":"of learned helplessness, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2114.721,"endTime":2117.0310000000004,"body":"Because they're always"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2114.721,"endTime":2117.0310000000004,"body":"in there doing the thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2117.311,"endTime":2118.771,"body":"Teams like, well, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2117.311,"endTime":2118.771,"body":"guess I don't need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2118.771,"endTime":2119.7110000000002,"body":"solve problems anymore."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2119.7110000000002,"endTime":2121.201,"body":"I'll just, take it to my PM."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2121.471,"endTime":2124.661,"body":"And then, yeah, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2121.471,"endTime":2124.661,"body":"create that sustainability."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2124.681,"endTime":2125.811,"body":"Mom"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2124.681,"endTime":2125.811,"body":"will take care of it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2125.831,"endTime":2126.3610000000003,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2128.3810000000003,"endTime":2129.8210000000004,"body":"I've seen it happen"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2128.3810000000003,"endTime":2129.8210000000004,"body":"time and time again."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2130.231,"endTime":2132.0310000000004,"body":"I thought I'd round out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2130.231,"endTime":2132.0310000000004,"body":"actually with one last surprise"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2132.0310000000004,"endTime":2134.0310000000004,"body":"question, which is just we've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2132.0310000000004,"endTime":2134.0310000000004,"body":"been talking, around this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2134.0310000000004,"endTime":2135.221,"body":"notion of getting a promotion."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2135.221,"endTime":2138.231,"body":"And yes, sometimes there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2135.221,"endTime":2138.231,"body":"will be a role available, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2138.231,"endTime":2140.4610000000002,"body":"sometimes there won't, and you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2138.231,"endTime":2140.4610000000002,"body":"should advocate for yourself."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2140.6710000000003,"endTime":2142.3810000000003,"body":"And I think we've been touching"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2140.6710000000003,"endTime":2142.3810000000003,"body":"on this throughout, but I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2142.3810000000003,"endTime":2145.161,"body":"wanted to just put a fine tip"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2142.3810000000003,"endTime":2145.161,"body":"on it, which is that if you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2145.161,"endTime":2147.9410000000003,"body":"someone who loves being a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2145.161,"endTime":2147.9410000000003,"body":"senior PM, and you don't want"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2147.951,"endTime":2151.5510000000004,"body":"to continue on and become, a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2147.951,"endTime":2151.5510000000004,"body":"program manager, like what are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2151.5510000000004,"endTime":2156.331,"body":"some ways that you can not let"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2151.5510000000004,"endTime":2156.331,"body":"that be something that lowers"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2156.331,"endTime":2157.981,"body":"your profile in an organization?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2157.991,"endTime":2160.7810000000004,"body":"Where, ambition is rewarded"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2157.991,"endTime":2160.7810000000004,"body":"and shouldn't you want to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2160.8010000000004,"endTime":2163.6310000000003,"body":"a manager of people and all"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2160.8010000000004,"endTime":2163.6310000000003,"body":"these things and maybe the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2163.6310000000003,"endTime":2165.5910000000003,"body":"answer is actually no, that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2163.6310000000003,"endTime":2165.5910000000003,"body":"not for me, but I'd like to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2165.5910000000003,"endTime":2167.0710000000004,"body":"like the best senior PM ever."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2167.7960000000003,"endTime":2170.3160000000003,"body":"What is a good way to frame"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2167.7960000000003,"endTime":2170.3160000000003,"body":"yourself and your profile"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2170.3160000000003,"endTime":2173.4260000000004,"body":"within an agency, like, for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2170.3160000000003,"endTime":2173.4260000000004,"body":"example, like Hero to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2173.4260000000004,"endTime":2174.8860000000004,"body":"like, yeah, I'm valuable."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2175.1560000000004,"endTime":2176.116,"body":"I'm a killer senior PM."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2176.116,"endTime":2178.2560000000003,"body":"That's what I want to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2176.116,"endTime":2178.2560000000003,"body":"do and you need me."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2178.416,"endTime":2180.5260000000003,"body":"So first of all,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2178.416,"endTime":2180.5260000000003,"body":"please come work for us because"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2180.5260000000003,"endTime":2181.0860000000002,"body":"those are my favorite people."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2182.9610000000002,"endTime":2184.971,"body":"No, I think you're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2182.9610000000002,"endTime":2184.971,"body":"totally right, Galen."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2185.061,"endTime":2189.001,"body":"It's okay to say that next, just"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2185.061,"endTime":2189.001,"body":"because it's the next rung on"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2189.001,"endTime":2191.2610000000004,"body":"the ladder, it doesn't mean that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2189.001,"endTime":2191.2610000000004,"body":"I'm going to be happy there."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2191.4010000000003,"endTime":2194.021,"body":"That level of self awareness of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2191.4010000000003,"endTime":2194.021,"body":"what's going to make you happy"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2194.021,"endTime":2196.561,"body":"and what you're good at and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2194.021,"endTime":2196.561,"body":"what you want to wake up and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2196.561,"endTime":2199.2810000000004,"body":"do 40 hours a week, 50 hours"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2196.561,"endTime":2199.2810000000004,"body":"a week, I mean, we work in an"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2199.2810000000004,"endTime":2202.2110000000002,"body":"agency, 60 hours a week, that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2199.2810000000004,"endTime":2202.2110000000002,"body":"it's something you like and it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2202.241,"endTime":2203.8610000000003,"body":"going to keep you fulfilled."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2203.8610000000003,"endTime":2206.371,"body":"And so I think it's totally"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2203.8610000000003,"endTime":2206.371,"body":"fine to say, I really"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2206.371,"endTime":2206.981,"body":"like what I'm doing."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2207.0110000000004,"endTime":2208.161,"body":"I don't want to be a manager."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2208.6110000000003,"endTime":2212.561,"body":"But that's when being"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2208.6110000000003,"endTime":2212.561,"body":"proactive about continuing"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2212.561,"endTime":2214.6710000000003,"body":"to grow your skill sets"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2212.561,"endTime":2214.6710000000003,"body":"about not getting stagnant"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2214.681,"endTime":2215.9610000000002,"body":"about not being complacent."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2216.1710000000003,"endTime":2217.501,"body":"That's when it gets"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2216.1710000000003,"endTime":2217.501,"body":"really important, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2217.501,"endTime":2219.9010000000003,"body":"So if you want to stay in that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2217.501,"endTime":2219.9010000000003,"body":"role and you say I want to be a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2219.9010000000003,"endTime":2222.7810000000004,"body":"senior PM but I want to be the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2219.9010000000003,"endTime":2222.7810000000004,"body":"best one ever, you have to bring"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2222.7810000000004,"endTime":2224.041,"body":"the opportunities to the table."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2224.221,"endTime":2227.501,"body":"You have to bring the ideas"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2224.221,"endTime":2227.501,"body":"to your manager to say I"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2227.501,"endTime":2228.471,"body":"don't want to be a manager."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2228.5110000000004,"endTime":2229.4410000000003,"body":"Here's what I do want to do."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2229.621,"endTime":2230.491,"body":"I want to try this new thing."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2230.9610000000002,"endTime":2232.371,"body":"I want to be the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2230.9610000000002,"endTime":2232.371,"body":"expert in this space."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2232.6110000000003,"endTime":2236.371,"body":"I want to be a SME in"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2232.6110000000003,"endTime":2236.371,"body":"all of our data projects."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2236.8210000000004,"endTime":2237.1110000000003,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2237.1110000000003,"endTime":2238.1110000000003,"body":"Find your place."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2238.3210000000004,"endTime":2240.8010000000004,"body":"Even though you're not an"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2238.3210000000004,"endTime":2240.8010000000004,"body":"HR manager, doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2240.8010000000004,"endTime":2241.7110000000002,"body":"that you can't be a leader."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2242.1710000000003,"endTime":2243.751,"body":"Find your thing that you're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2242.1710000000003,"endTime":2243.751,"body":"going to be the best at,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2243.751,"endTime":2246.391,"body":"and that you are really"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2243.751,"endTime":2246.391,"body":"excited about, and go all in."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2246.7610000000004,"endTime":2248.891,"body":"I definitely"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2246.7610000000004,"endTime":2248.891,"body":"agree with all the things"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2248.891,"endTime":2249.5910000000003,"body":"that Pam just said."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2249.5910000000003,"endTime":2253.161,"body":"I mean, unfortunate reality,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2249.5910000000003,"endTime":2253.161,"body":"I do think you need to analyze"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2253.201,"endTime":2256.061,"body":"like the profile of the company"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2253.201,"endTime":2256.061,"body":"that you're working at, because"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2256.3210000000004,"endTime":2259.1110000000003,"body":"there are places where, you"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2256.3210000000004,"endTime":2259.1110000000003,"body":"do hit a little bit of a"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2259.121,"endTime":2262.431,"body":"career ceiling if you're not"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2259.121,"endTime":2262.431,"body":"at the right place that really"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2262.431,"endTime":2264.311,"body":"values to track for expertise."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2264.371,"endTime":2266.181,"body":"I mean, there's a reason"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2264.371,"endTime":2266.181,"body":"why some of the bigger tech"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2266.201,"endTime":2269.831,"body":"organizations have an IC path"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2266.201,"endTime":2269.831,"body":"and they have a manager path"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2269.8610000000003,"endTime":2272.4210000000003,"body":"because they know that those are"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2269.8610000000003,"endTime":2272.4210000000003,"body":"two really different skill sets."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2272.4210000000003,"endTime":2274.6560000000004,"body":"And so it's important to make"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2272.4210000000003,"endTime":2274.6560000000004,"body":"sure the company you're at"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2274.6560000000004,"endTime":2275.9260000000004,"body":"understands and values that."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2276.116,"endTime":2278.686,"body":"But just like Pam said, honing"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2276.116,"endTime":2278.686,"body":"your skills, like you really"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2278.686,"endTime":2281.8160000000003,"body":"have to sharpen your craft and"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2278.686,"endTime":2281.8160000000003,"body":"make sure that you can tackle"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2281.8160000000003,"endTime":2282.8860000000004,"body":"a wide range of projects."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2282.896,"endTime":2285.7960000000003,"body":"So you're still showing"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2282.896,"endTime":2285.7960000000003,"body":"growth, but you don't have"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2285.7960000000003,"endTime":2288.516,"body":"to become a people manager"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2285.7960000000003,"endTime":2288.516,"body":"to do that, so important."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2288.6760000000004,"endTime":2289.786,"body":"There's a place for everybody."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2289.786,"endTime":2292.9460000000004,"body":"I've had great PMs on teams in"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2289.786,"endTime":2292.9460000000004,"body":"the past that are just like,"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2293.0860000000002,"endTime":2297.116,"body":"I want to stay as a doer, not"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2293.0860000000002,"endTime":2297.116,"body":"a manager for a long time."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2297.116,"endTime":2299.766,"body":"But if they continue to"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2297.116,"endTime":2299.766,"body":"show growth and expertise"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2299.826,"endTime":2302.7960000000003,"body":"and flexibility in what"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2299.826,"endTime":2302.7960000000003,"body":"they can do, it's gold."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2303.056,"endTime":2304.266,"body":"To be the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2303.056,"endTime":2304.266,"body":"Debbie Downer on it, though,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2304.376,"endTime":2306.7960000000003,"body":"if you're in that position,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2304.376,"endTime":2306.7960000000003,"body":"you do need to understand"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2306.7960000000003,"endTime":2308.2760000000003,"body":"that pay bans do exist."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2308.4060000000004,"endTime":2311.326,"body":"And so if you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2308.4060000000004,"endTime":2311.326,"body":"move into a program manager"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2311.326,"endTime":2314.3360000000002,"body":"role, you want to stay a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2311.326,"endTime":2314.3360000000002,"body":"senior PM forever, I think"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2314.3360000000002,"endTime":2316.436,"body":"we have to talk about the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2314.3360000000002,"endTime":2316.436,"body":"reality that at some point"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2316.436,"endTime":2318.186,"body":"your salary will cap, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2318.186,"endTime":2320.76,"body":"You can't make $400K"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2318.186,"endTime":2320.76,"body":"a year as a senior PM."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2320.991,"endTime":2322.621,"body":"And you have to be"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2320.991,"endTime":2322.621,"body":"okay with that, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2322.621,"endTime":2325.3610000000003,"body":"But if that's what you want"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2322.621,"endTime":2325.3610000000003,"body":"to do and it's going to make"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2325.3610000000003,"endTime":2327.471,"body":"you happy, I think the trade"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2325.3610000000003,"endTime":2327.471,"body":"off, you need to decide"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2327.471,"endTime":2328.2110000000002,"body":"if that's right for you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2328.3210000000004,"endTime":2329.121,"body":"Well called out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2329.241,"endTime":2329.951,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2330.021,"endTime":2333.7810000000004,"body":"There is a monetary aspect to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2330.021,"endTime":2333.7810000000004,"body":"this as well and, the rate of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2333.7810000000004,"endTime":2337.2610000000004,"body":"inflation may not be traveling"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2333.7810000000004,"endTime":2337.2610000000004,"body":"at the same rate as how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2337.2610000000004,"endTime":2338.88,"body":"these pay bands get updated."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2339.121,"endTime":2340.5110000000004,"body":"But yeah, I love all that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2340.5110000000004,"endTime":2344.7810000000004,"body":"I mean, I think, to your point,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2340.5110000000004,"endTime":2344.7810000000004,"body":"like strong senior PMs who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2344.911,"endTime":2348.561,"body":"like the IC path and want to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2344.911,"endTime":2348.561,"body":"keep growing in that are folks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2348.561,"endTime":2349.981,"body":"that you want on your team."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2350.2110000000002,"endTime":2352.991,"body":"And I think that says a lot,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2350.2110000000002,"endTime":2352.991,"body":"even just for folks who are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2353.041,"endTime":2355.8610000000003,"body":"a bit self conscious about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2353.041,"endTime":2355.8610000000003,"body":"the fact that, do I need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2355.8610000000003,"endTime":2358.8010000000004,"body":"figure something else out or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2355.8610000000003,"endTime":2358.8010000000004,"body":"is this a, is this an actual"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2358.8210000000004,"endTime":2360.351,"body":"sort of viable option for them?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2360.431,"endTime":2362.4610000000002,"body":"So I think that gives a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2360.431,"endTime":2362.4610000000002,"body":"lot of context to that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2362.806,"endTime":2363.3360000000002,"body":"This is great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2363.346,"endTime":2363.9460000000004,"body":"This has been great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2364.116,"endTime":2365.726,"body":"Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2364.116,"endTime":2365.726,"body":"being on the show."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2365.7960000000003,"endTime":2369.286,"body":"I honestly that was like a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2365.7960000000003,"endTime":2369.286,"body":"course distilled into, what I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2369.286,"endTime":2370.5660000000003,"body":"tracking is about 45 minutes."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2370.5660000000003,"endTime":2371.616,"body":"I'll"},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2370.5660000000003,"endTime":2371.616,"body":"send you my invoice."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2373.126,"endTime":2374.866,"body":"And actually, when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2373.126,"endTime":2374.866,"body":"you do, please send me that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2374.876,"endTime":2377.726,"body":"finance for dummies book,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2374.876,"endTime":2377.726,"body":"finance for non finance people."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2377.726,"endTime":2379.4260000000004,"body":"I'm like, yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2377.726,"endTime":2379.4260000000004,"body":"I need that actually."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2379.661,"endTime":2380.911,"body":"I'll also include it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2379.661,"endTime":2380.911,"body":"in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2381.3010000000004,"endTime":2383.1310000000003,"body":"Honestly, thank you both for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2381.3010000000004,"endTime":2383.1310000000003,"body":"hanging out with me today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2383.201,"endTime":2384.271,"body":"It's been a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2384.471,"endTime":2386.911,"body":"I've been just dying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2384.471,"endTime":2386.911,"body":"to have this episode."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2387.0510000000004,"endTime":2389.491,"body":"So I'm glad I got you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2387.0510000000004,"endTime":2389.491,"body":"both at the same time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2389.6710000000003,"endTime":2391.1910000000003,"body":"Thank you again for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2389.6710000000003,"endTime":2391.1910000000003,"body":"sharing your wisdom."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2391.4210000000003,"endTime":2392.431,"body":"Thanks so much, Galen."},{"speaker":"Tracy Hennessy","startTime":2392.4410000000003,"endTime":2393.371,"body":"Really appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2394.291,"endTime":2395.661,"body":"All right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2394.291,"endTime":2395.661,"body":"folks, there you have it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2395.7610000000004,"endTime":2397.951,"body":"As always, if you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2395.7610000000004,"endTime":2397.951,"body":"join the conversation with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2397.951,"endTime":2400.451,"body":"over a thousand like minded"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2397.951,"endTime":2400.451,"body":"project management champions,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2400.6910000000003,"endTime":2401.621,"body":"come join our collective!"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2401.9010000000003,"endTime":2405.2610000000004,"body":"Head on over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2401.9010000000003,"endTime":2405.2610000000004,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com/membership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2405.3610000000003,"endTime":2406.021,"body":"to learn more."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2406.471,"endTime":2408.516,"body":"And if you like what you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2406.471,"endTime":2408.516,"body":"heard today, please subscribe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2408.516,"endTime":2411.9660000000003,"body":"and stay in touch on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2408.516,"endTime":2411.9660000000003,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2411.9860000000003,"endTime":2414.2050000000004,"body":"Until next time,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2411.9860000000003,"endTime":2414.2050000000004,"body":"thanks for listening."}]}