{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.150000000000002,"endTime":28.46,"body":"Hey folks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.150000000000002,"endTime":28.46,"body":"thanks for tuning in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.55,"endTime":31.160000000000004,"body":"My name is Galen Low with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.55,"endTime":31.160000000000004,"body":"The Digital Project Manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.409,"endTime":34.129000000000005,"body":"We are a community of digital"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.409,"endTime":34.129000000000005,"body":"professionals on a mission"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":34.13,"endTime":36.55,"body":"to help each other get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":34.13,"endTime":36.55,"body":"skilled, get confident, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":36.55,"endTime":39.28,"body":"get connected so that we can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":36.55,"endTime":39.28,"body":"amplify the value of project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":39.28,"endTime":40.979,"body":"management in a digital world."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":41.39,"endTime":43.599000000000004,"body":"If you want to hear more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":41.39,"endTime":43.599000000000004,"body":"about that, head on over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":43.67,"endTime":45.78,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":46.33,"endTime":49.0,"body":"Okay, today we're talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":46.33,"endTime":49.0,"body":"about what kind of work"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":49.0,"endTime":51.66,"body":"experience you need to land"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":49.0,"endTime":51.66,"body":"a digital program manager"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":51.66,"endTime":54.539,"body":"role — specifically tackling"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":51.66,"endTime":54.539,"body":"that question of whether it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":54.539,"endTime":58.56,"body":"better to have deep, specialized"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":54.539,"endTime":58.56,"body":"experience, or pockets of varied"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":58.57,"endTime":61.81,"body":"experience — and how each may"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":58.57,"endTime":61.81,"body":"require a different approach"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":61.9,"endTime":63.27,"body":"in landing that dream job."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":63.730000000000004,"endTime":67.1,"body":"Joining me today is Jean Kang,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":63.730000000000004,"endTime":67.1,"body":"a Senior Program Manager at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":67.1,"endTime":70.549,"body":"Figma, a LinkedIn Learning and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":67.1,"endTime":70.549,"body":"Maven Instructor, and someone"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":70.55000000000001,"endTime":73.25999999999999,"body":"who is perhaps better known"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":70.55000000000001,"endTime":73.25999999999999,"body":"as the founder and the face"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":73.44,"endTime":76.5,"body":"of Path To PM — where she"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":73.44,"endTime":76.5,"body":"helps professionals make the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":76.5,"endTime":79.75999999999999,"body":"pivot to program management"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":76.5,"endTime":79.75999999999999,"body":"and thrive in their careers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":80.12899999999999,"endTime":81.75999999999999,"body":"Jean, thanks for hanging"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":80.12899999999999,"endTime":81.75999999999999,"body":"out with us today."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":82.125,"endTime":83.975,"body":"I'm so"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":82.125,"endTime":83.975,"body":"excited to be here."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":84.045,"endTime":84.705,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":85.055,"endTime":87.375,"body":"So folks listening,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":85.055,"endTime":87.375,"body":"I've been sort of stalking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":87.375,"endTime":89.955,"body":"Jean, because Jean, you've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":87.375,"endTime":89.955,"body":"been making a real big splash."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":90.084,"endTime":92.365,"body":"You're flying the flag for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":90.084,"endTime":92.365,"body":"project and program management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":92.374,"endTime":93.455,"body":"You're out there on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":93.615,"endTime":95.015,"body":"You have a weekly newsletter."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":95.185,"endTime":96.984,"body":"You are moving and shaking."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":97.285,"endTime":100.315,"body":"And you are a very, in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":97.285,"endTime":100.315,"body":"my eyes, a respected"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":100.345,"endTime":101.515,"body":"advocate for the craft."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":101.694,"endTime":104.205,"body":"And I was like, let's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":101.694,"endTime":104.205,"body":"get her on the show and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":104.205,"endTime":105.205,"body":"let's pick Jean's brain."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":105.515,"endTime":108.105,"body":"Because I think you've got a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":105.515,"endTime":108.105,"body":"really interesting story and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":108.105,"endTime":110.914,"body":"we are going to get into this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":108.105,"endTime":110.914,"body":"whole notion of work experience"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":110.914,"endTime":114.625,"body":"and how it relates to sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":110.914,"endTime":114.625,"body":"getting either that next program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":114.625,"endTime":118.315,"body":"manager role or that first even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":114.625,"endTime":118.315,"body":"project coordinator role and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":118.325,"endTime":119.795,"body":"how you can weave that story."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":120.08,"endTime":122.0,"body":"But before we get into it,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":120.08,"endTime":122.0,"body":"I was just wondering if you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":122.0,"endTime":125.12,"body":"could just tell us a little"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":122.0,"endTime":125.12,"body":"bit about Path To PM and just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":125.12,"endTime":127.56,"body":"what motivated you to start"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":125.12,"endTime":127.56,"body":"doing what you do there."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":127.81,"endTime":132.88,"body":"So Path To PM is"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":127.81,"endTime":132.88,"body":"my brand that I created to"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":133.289,"endTime":137.78,"body":"help just empower and grow"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":133.289,"endTime":137.78,"body":"the next generation of project"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":137.81900000000002,"endTime":142.049,"body":"leaders in general; program"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":137.81900000000002,"endTime":142.049,"body":"managers, project managers, etc."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":142.289,"endTime":146.07999999999998,"body":"And the reason why I created"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":142.289,"endTime":146.07999999999998,"body":"this brand was because about"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":146.11,"endTime":150.63,"body":"a year ago, people started"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":146.11,"endTime":150.63,"body":"DMing me about my journey,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":150.67,"endTime":153.33,"body":"how I was able to pivot it and"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":150.67,"endTime":153.33,"body":"work at different companies."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":153.56,"endTime":156.64000000000001,"body":"And more importantly, they're"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":153.56,"endTime":156.64000000000001,"body":"really interested about how"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":156.65,"endTime":160.33,"body":"they could also grow in this"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":156.65,"endTime":160.33,"body":"program management career path."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":160.73,"endTime":161.149,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":161.21,"endTime":163.07,"body":"People are just like showing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":161.21,"endTime":163.07,"body":"up in your DMs being like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":163.07,"endTime":164.05,"body":"Hey, what's your story?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":164.51,"endTime":165.399,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":165.399,"endTime":165.84,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":165.94,"endTime":167.69,"body":"Some people are just very vocal."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":167.709,"endTime":169.82,"body":"And sometimes like,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":167.709,"endTime":169.82,"body":"I look for that."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":169.83,"endTime":172.965,"body":"I loved how honest people"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":169.83,"endTime":172.965,"body":"were and you know, quite"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":172.965,"endTime":175.51500000000001,"body":"frankly, they were shooting"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":172.965,"endTime":175.51500000000001,"body":"their shot and kudos to them."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":175.795,"endTime":176.235,"body":"Fair enough."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":176.26500000000001,"endTime":176.825,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":176.835,"endTime":179.405,"body":"There's so much we talk about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":176.835,"endTime":179.405,"body":"the job seeking process."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":179.405,"endTime":182.185,"body":"And we talk about job boards"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":179.405,"endTime":182.185,"body":"and everyone's like on Indeed"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":182.185,"endTime":184.264,"body":"or LinkedIn as a job post."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":184.26500000000001,"endTime":186.585,"body":"And there's, an ATS that's going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":184.26500000000001,"endTime":186.585,"body":"to scan your blah, blah, blah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":186.585,"endTime":190.095,"body":"But fundamentally, there is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":186.585,"endTime":190.095,"body":"also this very human level of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":190.255,"endTime":192.555,"body":"let's go talk to people and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":190.255,"endTime":192.555,"body":"figure out, what their job"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":192.555,"endTime":194.025,"body":"is, how they got their job."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":194.035,"endTime":196.915,"body":"Let's like learn a little"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":194.035,"endTime":196.915,"body":"bit about somebody's path"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":196.945,"endTime":199.495,"body":"into their craft or into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":196.945,"endTime":199.495,"body":"their current profession."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":199.795,"endTime":202.625,"body":"It's not all just writing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":199.795,"endTime":202.625,"body":"the right words on a resume"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":202.635,"endTime":204.035,"body":"and getting an interview."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":204.035,"endTime":206.605,"body":"Some of it's just like learning"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":204.035,"endTime":206.605,"body":"about what it is that you want"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":206.605,"endTime":207.51500000000001,"body":"to do and how to get there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":207.545,"endTime":208.855,"body":"So I think that's super cool."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":209.175,"endTime":212.215,"body":"You alluded to the number"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":209.175,"endTime":212.215,"body":"of pivots that you've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":212.215,"endTime":213.315,"body":"made in your career."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":213.335,"endTime":215.675,"body":"And I know it's something"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":213.335,"endTime":215.675,"body":"you're really not shy about."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":216.035,"endTime":218.705,"body":"I believe that I was reading"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":216.035,"endTime":218.705,"body":"one of your articles about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":218.755,"endTime":222.365,"body":"you've made seven career pivots"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":218.755,"endTime":222.365,"body":"in probably under a decade."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":222.615,"endTime":224.545,"body":"And it's like something"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":222.615,"endTime":224.545,"body":"that kind of underpins"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":224.555,"endTime":227.415,"body":"the way you teach and talk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":224.555,"endTime":227.415,"body":"about project management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":227.715,"endTime":229.51500000000001,"body":"Just wondering what made"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":227.715,"endTime":229.51500000000001,"body":"you choose that as the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":229.51500000000001,"endTime":231.914,"body":"cornerstone of your story"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":229.51500000000001,"endTime":231.914,"body":"and also your business?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":232.104,"endTime":233.925,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":232.104,"endTime":233.925,"body":"a really good point."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":233.925,"endTime":236.49,"body":"And the short answer is"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":233.925,"endTime":236.49,"body":"I didn't come up with"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":236.49,"endTime":237.85,"body":"that tagline myself."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":238.03,"endTime":241.91,"body":"I didn't originally just like,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":238.03,"endTime":241.91,"body":"Oh, I had all these pivots count"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":241.95,"endTime":243.64000000000001,"body":"each of the jobs that I had."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":243.8,"endTime":246.8,"body":"It was actually from one of"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":243.8,"endTime":246.8,"body":"those DMs that said, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":246.809,"endTime":250.75,"body":"Jean, you pivoted at so many"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":246.809,"endTime":250.75,"body":"of these different companies."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":250.94,"endTime":253.49,"body":"Like I've, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":250.94,"endTime":253.49,"body":"I've seen a lot of that."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":254.045,"endTime":255.735,"body":"I would love to know your story."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":255.955,"endTime":258.645,"body":"So that served as a"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":255.955,"endTime":258.645,"body":"lightbulb moment for me."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":258.78499999999997,"endTime":259.79499999999996,"body":"Oh, you're right."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":259.865,"endTime":262.595,"body":"I did pivot many"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":259.865,"endTime":262.595,"body":"times in my career."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":262.595,"endTime":266.065,"body":"I do have a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":262.595,"endTime":266.065,"body":"company logos under my belt."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":266.275,"endTime":267.28499999999997,"body":"I should brand that."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":267.365,"endTime":268.635,"body":"That should become my narrative."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":268.675,"endTime":269.655,"body":"Thanks to the DMs."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":270.145,"endTime":272.075,"body":"Kudos to you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":270.145,"endTime":272.075,"body":"for spinning it into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":272.105,"endTime":273.16499999999996,"body":"a business, really."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":273.20500000000004,"endTime":274.70500000000004,"body":"I love that external"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":273.20500000000004,"endTime":274.70500000000004,"body":"perspective, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":274.70500000000004,"endTime":276.355,"body":"Where you're like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":274.70500000000004,"endTime":276.355,"body":"do I have that thing?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":276.505,"endTime":276.945,"body":"Oh, yeah, I do."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":277.135,"endTime":280.29499999999996,"body":"Okay and honestly, some people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":277.135,"endTime":280.29499999999996,"body":"would be like excuse me, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":280.29499999999996,"endTime":282.845,"body":"know, I've had a very focused"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":280.29499999999996,"endTime":282.845,"body":"career, thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":283.005,"endTime":285.385,"body":"Whereas I love that you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":283.005,"endTime":285.385,"body":"able to look at it and be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":285.385,"endTime":288.755,"body":"like, yeah, I did pivot a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":285.385,"endTime":288.755,"body":"bunch and everyone's path is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":288.755,"endTime":292.655,"body":"unique and there's no sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":288.755,"endTime":292.655,"body":"single journey up the ladder."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":292.92499999999995,"endTime":294.365,"body":"And that's something that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":292.92499999999995,"endTime":294.365,"body":"we ought to talk about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":294.375,"endTime":298.54499999999996,"body":"and sort of arm people to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":294.375,"endTime":298.54499999999996,"body":"navigate really in this space."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":298.595,"endTime":301.53499999999997,"body":"Where I think a lot of the time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":298.595,"endTime":301.53499999999997,"body":"we're told, Nope, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":301.53499999999997,"endTime":304.18499999999995,"body":"get job A, that leads you to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":301.53499999999997,"endTime":304.18499999999995,"body":"job B, that leads you to job"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":304.18499999999995,"endTime":305.56500000000005,"body":"C, that leads you to job D."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":305.655,"endTime":307.08500000000004,"body":"You get your gold pen"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":305.655,"endTime":307.08500000000004,"body":"and your watch after"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":307.08500000000004,"endTime":308.32500000000005,"body":"45 years or whatever."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":308.43499999999995,"endTime":310.395,"body":"And it's like, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":308.43499999999995,"endTime":310.395,"body":"that happens much anymore, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":310.395,"endTime":314.21500000000003,"body":"yet, our mindsets haven't really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":310.395,"endTime":314.21500000000003,"body":"always caught up to the notion"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":314.21500000000003,"endTime":317.865,"body":"that, yeah a lot of roles are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":314.21500000000003,"endTime":317.865,"body":"very multifaceted, and it's not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":317.885,"endTime":320.78499999999997,"body":"really that linear, it's not as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":317.885,"endTime":320.78499999999997,"body":"linear as people make it seem."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":321.24,"endTime":322.91999999999996,"body":"Yep, the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":321.24,"endTime":322.91999999999996,"body":"career path being linear."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":322.94000000000005,"endTime":325.73,"body":"I, and I just to add"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":322.94000000000005,"endTime":325.73,"body":"on to that, I agree."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":325.83000000000004,"endTime":330.13,"body":"And I think even in just"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":325.83000000000004,"endTime":330.13,"body":"right now in this market, the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":330.14,"endTime":333.24,"body":"narrative is shifting just"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":330.14,"endTime":333.24,"body":"the way people are viewing"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":333.29999999999995,"endTime":336.76,"body":"originally taboo things like"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":333.29999999999995,"endTime":336.76,"body":"being a job hopper was frowned"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":336.76,"endTime":337.94000000000005,"body":"upon a couple of years ago."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":337.94000000000005,"endTime":341.375,"body":"And I think that's probably"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":337.94000000000005,"endTime":341.375,"body":"why I didn't call myself as"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":341.69500000000005,"endTime":346.125,"body":"one and now I feel empowered"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":341.69500000000005,"endTime":346.125,"body":"to embrace that as part of"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":346.125,"endTime":349.625,"body":"my identity and having this"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":346.125,"endTime":349.625,"body":"platform like LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":349.94500000000005,"endTime":352.155,"body":"I'm realizing that resonates"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":349.94500000000005,"endTime":352.155,"body":"with a lot of people."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":352.16499999999996,"endTime":354.96500000000003,"body":"There's a lot of people like"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":352.16499999999996,"endTime":354.96500000000003,"body":"us who don't have linear career"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":354.96500000000003,"endTime":358.985,"body":"paths and even thinking about"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":354.96500000000003,"endTime":358.985,"body":"our path to project and program"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":358.985,"endTime":360.845,"body":"management, it isn't linear."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":360.885,"endTime":365.475,"body":"Oftentimes you are thrown"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":360.885,"endTime":365.475,"body":"into the water and you find"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":365.475,"endTime":366.93499999999995,"body":"your way and here we are."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":367.45500000000004,"endTime":369.05499999999995,"body":"So that's my journey as well."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":369.05499999999995,"endTime":370.80499999999995,"body":"And I know that that resonates"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":369.05499999999995,"endTime":370.80499999999995,"body":"with a lot of people."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":371.225,"endTime":371.875,"body":"Oh, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":371.885,"endTime":374.42499999999995,"body":"Even in our community, we've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":371.885,"endTime":374.42499999999995,"body":"got so many, you know, we call"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":374.42499999999995,"endTime":376.17499999999995,"body":"ourselves accidental PMs, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":376.385,"endTime":377.44500000000005,"body":"We didn't ask for it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":377.46500000000003,"endTime":378.845,"body":"We didn't go to school for it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":379.06500000000005,"endTime":381.43499999999995,"body":"We were just in the right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":379.06500000000005,"endTime":381.43499999999995,"body":"place - right time, wrong"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":381.43499999999995,"endTime":383.365,"body":"place - wrong time, however"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":381.43499999999995,"endTime":383.365,"body":"you want to look at it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":383.55499999999995,"endTime":385.615,"body":"And someone was like, listen,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":383.55499999999995,"endTime":385.615,"body":"can you lead this thing?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":385.615,"endTime":387.015,"body":"You're good at X or Y and Z."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":387.265,"endTime":388.19500000000005,"body":"And we said yes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":388.54499999999996,"endTime":390.43499999999995,"body":"And suddenly we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":388.54499999999996,"endTime":390.43499999999995,"body":"project managers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":390.44500000000005,"endTime":393.605,"body":"But you know, before"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":390.44500000000005,"endTime":393.605,"body":"that, a lot of us had very"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":393.68499999999995,"endTime":396.57500000000005,"body":"different path carved out for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":393.68499999999995,"endTime":396.57500000000005,"body":"ourselves, let's just say,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":396.79499999999996,"endTime":397.985,"body":"but it does happen a lot."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":398.025,"endTime":400.745,"body":"And I think, like we're going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":398.025,"endTime":400.745,"body":"to get into it, but I think it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":400.745,"endTime":403.595,"body":"could be super valuable to have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":400.745,"endTime":403.595,"body":"a lot of different experience."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":403.80499999999995,"endTime":405.33500000000004,"body":"Spoiler alert, that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":403.80499999999995,"endTime":405.33500000000004,"body":"my position on it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":405.53499999999997,"endTime":406.18499999999995,"body":"Ah, the end."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":407.78499999999997,"endTime":411.135,"body":"But I thought maybe we can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":407.78499999999997,"endTime":411.135,"body":"dig into your journey because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":411.17499999999995,"endTime":414.345,"body":"you're based in San Fran and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":411.17499999999995,"endTime":414.345,"body":"I imagine that you had some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":414.345,"endTime":417.45399999999995,"body":"pretty interesting job options"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":414.345,"endTime":417.45399999999995,"body":"as you, came out of school."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":417.615,"endTime":419.775,"body":"But I thought I'd ask what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":417.615,"endTime":419.775,"body":"was the first job in your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":419.775,"endTime":421.245,"body":"sort of multi pivot journey?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":421.245,"endTime":423.45500000000004,"body":"And what's something that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":421.245,"endTime":423.45500000000004,"body":"you learned from that role"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":423.45500000000004,"endTime":425.775,"body":"that you use in your role"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":423.45500000000004,"endTime":425.775,"body":"today as a program manager,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":425.775,"endTime":426.725,"body":"like in the SaaS space?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":427.29499999999996,"endTime":430.17499999999995,"body":"So my very"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":427.29499999999996,"endTime":430.17499999999995,"body":"first job out of school"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":430.18499999999995,"endTime":432.015,"body":"was entry level sales."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":432.41499999999996,"endTime":435.865,"body":"My title was a lead"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":432.41499999999996,"endTime":435.865,"body":"development representative."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":435.995,"endTime":438.82500000000005,"body":"Basically, it's a cold"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":435.995,"endTime":438.82500000000005,"body":"calling role, you cold call"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":438.82500000000005,"endTime":441.985,"body":"businesses, and then you set"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":438.82500000000005,"endTime":441.985,"body":"up demos for account executives"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":441.985,"endTime":445.78499999999997,"body":"to close, so being in that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":441.985,"endTime":445.78499999999997,"body":"very trenches of sales."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":445.80499999999995,"endTime":450.755,"body":"So long story short, I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":445.80499999999995,"endTime":450.755,"body":"cut out for sales, but the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":450.79499999999996,"endTime":455.71500000000003,"body":"qualities that helped me, like I"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":450.79499999999996,"endTime":455.71500000000003,"body":"still bring those qualities, my"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":455.71500000000003,"endTime":459.68499999999995,"body":"first job to my work today are"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":455.71500000000003,"endTime":459.68499999999995,"body":"things like resilience, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":459.95500000000004,"endTime":463.16499999999996,"body":"You face a lot of rejection,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":459.95500000000004,"endTime":463.16499999999996,"body":"as you can imagine."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":463.595,"endTime":466.68499999999995,"body":"And, I don't get"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":463.595,"endTime":466.68499999999995,"body":"faced by that anymore."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":466.735,"endTime":470.17499999999995,"body":"So I think part of me,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":466.735,"endTime":470.17499999999995,"body":"why I was able to be"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":470.17499999999995,"endTime":473.07500000000005,"body":"successful in my pivots was"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":470.17499999999995,"endTime":473.07500000000005,"body":"because I wasn't afraid of"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":473.07500000000005,"endTime":474.515,"body":"rejection and keep going."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":474.71500000000003,"endTime":477.69500000000005,"body":"And that is also very important,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":474.71500000000003,"endTime":477.69500000000005,"body":"not only as a job seeker, but"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":477.69500000000005,"endTime":479.025,"body":"as a program manager, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":479.025,"endTime":480.895,"body":"If people say, no, you"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":479.025,"endTime":480.895,"body":"don't take it personally."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":480.905,"endTime":484.08500000000004,"body":"You keep going, you find other"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":480.905,"endTime":484.08500000000004,"body":"angles, but you don't give up."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":484.275,"endTime":488.135,"body":"And then the other piece"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":484.275,"endTime":488.135,"body":"would be tenacity and grit."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":488.505,"endTime":492.875,"body":"Grit is so important to keep"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":488.505,"endTime":492.875,"body":"going, just not be phased."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":493.30499999999995,"endTime":495.55499999999995,"body":"And then also this is"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":493.30499999999995,"endTime":495.55499999999995,"body":"similar-ish, it's a bit"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":495.55499999999995,"endTime":498.71000000000004,"body":"nuance, is embracing ambiguity."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":499.05999999999995,"endTime":500.76,"body":"In sales, you never know"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":499.05999999999995,"endTime":500.76,"body":"what you're going to get."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":500.82000000000005,"endTime":504.69000000000005,"body":"And also in program management,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":500.82000000000005,"endTime":504.69000000000005,"body":"like you're running projects."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":505.11,"endTime":507.19000000000005,"body":"You don't know if it's"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":505.11,"endTime":507.19000000000005,"body":"going to be successful."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":507.19000000000005,"endTime":509.24,"body":"You don't know who it's"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":507.19000000000005,"endTime":509.24,"body":"going to impact, who you're"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":509.24,"endTime":511.77,"body":"going to work with, but you"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":509.24,"endTime":511.77,"body":"can't be scared by that."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":511.77,"endTime":514.01,"body":"You have to embrace it and"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":511.77,"endTime":514.01,"body":"take it by its bull horns."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":514.05,"endTime":517.52,"body":"And that's something"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":514.05,"endTime":517.52,"body":"that has been very just"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":517.56,"endTime":520.01,"body":"intrinsically motivating for"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":517.56,"endTime":520.01,"body":"me because I'm the type of"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":520.01,"endTime":522.95,"body":"person that like, give me"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":520.01,"endTime":522.95,"body":"whatever, I'll tackle it."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":523.17,"endTime":523.86,"body":"I'll get it done."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":524.22,"endTime":525.74,"body":"I don't know how, but"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":524.22,"endTime":525.74,"body":"I'll figure it out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":525.95,"endTime":527.49,"body":"I love that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":525.95,"endTime":527.49,"body":"sort of summary of grit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":527.5,"endTime":529.0,"body":"And yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":527.5,"endTime":529.0,"body":"it's downplayed."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":529.0,"endTime":531.17,"body":"I mean, in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":529.0,"endTime":531.17,"body":"conversations I have for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":531.17,"endTime":533.12,"body":"folks talking about project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":531.17,"endTime":533.12,"body":"management and like getting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":533.12,"endTime":535.3199999999999,"body":"into project management, or,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":533.12,"endTime":535.3199999999999,"body":"maybe they've been doing it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":535.3199999999999,"endTime":538.26,"body":"for like decades, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":535.3199999999999,"endTime":538.26,"body":"there is this notion of that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":538.26,"endTime":541.12,"body":"control freak nature of things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":538.26,"endTime":541.12,"body":"and being very organized."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":541.12,"endTime":543.36,"body":"And on the surface, it looks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":541.12,"endTime":543.36,"body":"like the job is to make sure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":543.36,"endTime":546.98,"body":"everything goes to plan, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":543.36,"endTime":546.98,"body":"like that resilience thing, the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":546.98,"endTime":550.0699999999999,"body":"sort of like tenacity thing,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":546.98,"endTime":550.0699999999999,"body":"like it really resonates with me"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":550.0699999999999,"endTime":553.0799999999999,"body":"because even when I'm hiring a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":550.0699999999999,"endTime":553.0799999999999,"body":"project manager, like I actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":553.0799999999999,"endTime":556.04,"body":"don't really want someone who's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":553.0799999999999,"endTime":556.04,"body":"had like a perfect streak of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":556.0699999999999,"endTime":557.3,"body":"amazing, perfect projects."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":557.3,"endTime":561.51,"body":"Because that doesn't tell me"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":557.3,"endTime":561.51,"body":"how they deal with adversity"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":561.51,"endTime":564.22,"body":"and ambiguity and things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":561.51,"endTime":564.22,"body":"going wrong and not to plan."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":564.22,"endTime":567.0899999999999,"body":"And I think, yeah, I guess"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":564.22,"endTime":567.0899999999999,"body":"that's the like, the crux of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":567.0899999999999,"endTime":569.8,"body":"project management is that on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":567.0899999999999,"endTime":569.8,"body":"the surface, it's about making"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":569.8,"endTime":572.78,"body":"things go to plan, but beneath"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":569.8,"endTime":572.78,"body":"the surface, it's about pivoting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":572.78,"endTime":576.36,"body":"and adapting and changing the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":572.78,"endTime":576.36,"body":"plan and, making it all even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":576.36,"endTime":579.05,"body":"out in the end, but like the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":576.36,"endTime":579.05,"body":"actual journey is quite messy."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":579.0799999999999,"endTime":580.6899999999999,"body":"So actually, I really like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":580.6899999999999,"endTime":582.16,"body":"I started in sales"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":580.6899999999999,"endTime":582.16,"body":"as well, actually."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":582.17,"endTime":583.51,"body":"I'm not cold calling,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":582.17,"endTime":583.51,"body":"not lead gen."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":583.51,"endTime":584.0,"body":"That's tough."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":584.0,"endTime":584.66,"body":"Respect to that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":585.22,"endTime":587.41,"body":"But it does put you in this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":585.22,"endTime":587.41,"body":"headspace of dealing with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":587.41,"endTime":590.645,"body":"people, trying to achieve"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":587.41,"endTime":590.645,"body":"a goal, getting rejected,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":591.365,"endTime":594.405,"body":"getting treated sometimes quite"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":591.365,"endTime":594.405,"body":"poorly, and, dusting yourself"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":594.425,"endTime":595.515,"body":"off and getting up again."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":595.745,"endTime":596.865,"body":"So, I really love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":596.885,"endTime":597.7149999999999,"body":"I think that's really cool."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":597.925,"endTime":601.1949999999999,"body":"Maybe we can talk a little"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":597.925,"endTime":601.1949999999999,"body":"bit about your journey into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":601.2149999999999,"endTime":602.655,"body":"project and program management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":602.725,"endTime":605.755,"body":"So, you started in sales,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":602.725,"endTime":605.755,"body":"and then eventually, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":605.755,"endTime":607.305,"body":"got into your PM role."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":607.4549999999999,"endTime":610.255,"body":"But I was wondering, what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":607.4549999999999,"endTime":610.255,"body":"did you do or say to land a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":610.255,"endTime":613.525,"body":"PM job without necessarily"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":610.255,"endTime":613.525,"body":"having PM experience?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":613.8149999999999,"endTime":614.5649999999999,"body":"Ooh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":614.93,"endTime":616.8299999999999,"body":"This is like the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":614.93,"endTime":616.8299999999999,"body":"million dollar question."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":617.13,"endTime":622.13,"body":"So, this happened when I was"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":617.13,"endTime":622.13,"body":"a client solutions manager."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":622.13,"endTime":624.31,"body":"I was a CSM at Pinterest."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":624.79,"endTime":628.14,"body":"And when I joined Pinterest,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":624.79,"endTime":628.14,"body":"it was still very much so"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":628.14,"endTime":632.85,"body":"like a mid stage startup,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":628.14,"endTime":632.85,"body":"pre-IPO, very scrappy, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":632.88,"endTime":634.86,"body":"So you're naturally wearing"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":632.88,"endTime":634.86,"body":"a ton of different hats."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":635.56,"endTime":638.2099999999999,"body":"So even though I had a title"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":635.56,"endTime":638.2099999999999,"body":"of a CSM role, I was running"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":638.4,"endTime":641.36,"body":"a lot of different internal"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":638.4,"endTime":641.36,"body":"team projects, working with"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":641.36,"endTime":644.49,"body":"different cross functional"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":641.36,"endTime":644.49,"body":"teams like product and sales."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":644.77,"endTime":646.9599999999999,"body":"So I'm glad that it"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":644.77,"endTime":646.9599999999999,"body":"gave me that exposure."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":647.22,"endTime":651.3,"body":"Now where the rubber met the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":647.22,"endTime":651.3,"body":"road for me was there wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":651.3299999999999,"endTime":655.3399999999999,"body":"a unique opportunity presented"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":651.3299999999999,"endTime":655.3399999999999,"body":"by my manager where they said,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":655.3399999999999,"endTime":656.79,"body":"Hey, this is very pivotal."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":656.8,"endTime":659.54,"body":"We have a huge, huge"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":656.8,"endTime":659.54,"body":"program to launch."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":659.64,"endTime":662.49,"body":"We have to work with our"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":659.64,"endTime":662.49,"body":"biggest clients to migrate"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":662.49,"endTime":663.76,"body":"over to this new product."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":663.78,"endTime":666.16,"body":"And we just need work"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":663.78,"endTime":666.16,"body":"to be done, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":666.16,"endTime":667.98,"body":"It's like, we don't know what"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":666.16,"endTime":667.98,"body":"exactly it's going to look"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":667.98,"endTime":670.64,"body":"like, but we need somebody,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":667.98,"endTime":670.64,"body":"our team needs to be involved."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":670.8199999999999,"endTime":672.9599999999999,"body":"So naturally I just"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":670.8199999999999,"endTime":672.9599999999999,"body":"connected the dots."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":672.9599999999999,"endTime":675.25,"body":"I was like, this is something"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":672.9599999999999,"endTime":675.25,"body":"that I want to have my"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":675.25,"endTime":678.14,"body":"name on, my finger on"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":675.25,"endTime":678.14,"body":"whatever shape, wear form."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":678.38,"endTime":680.0,"body":"So I just went for"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":678.38,"endTime":680.0,"body":"it, raised my hand."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":680.0,"endTime":683.125,"body":"I said, Hey, it naturally,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":680.0,"endTime":683.125,"body":"without even asking for"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":683.125,"endTime":685.995,"body":"permission, I grew myself"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":683.125,"endTime":685.995,"body":"into this, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":686.185,"endTime":689.415,"body":"this no title project"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":686.185,"endTime":689.415,"body":"manager for this project."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":689.505,"endTime":695.305,"body":"But naturally, I optimized that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":689.505,"endTime":695.305,"body":"experience where I am picking"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":695.305,"endTime":698.645,"body":"up and using, applying the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":695.305,"endTime":698.645,"body":"skills of a project manager"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":698.655,"endTime":701.425,"body":"from what I had perceived"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":698.655,"endTime":701.425,"body":"a project manager to do."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":701.435,"endTime":705.115,"body":"Because like you said, I don't"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":701.435,"endTime":705.115,"body":"have the title, but I have my"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":705.155,"endTime":706.5849999999999,"body":"inclination of what that is."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":706.895,"endTime":710.025,"body":"So creating a plan from"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":706.895,"endTime":710.025,"body":"scratch and getting buy in."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":710.4,"endTime":714.22,"body":"Training up a team on new"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":710.4,"endTime":714.22,"body":"processes, rallying teams,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":714.24,"endTime":717.93,"body":"setting up sinks, creating"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":714.24,"endTime":717.93,"body":"communication plans, measuring"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":717.98,"endTime":721.53,"body":"out on things, iterating,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":717.98,"endTime":721.53,"body":"identifying risks, like"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":721.54,"endTime":724.55,"body":"all of that stuff happened"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":721.54,"endTime":724.55,"body":"naturally in that role."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":724.8399999999999,"endTime":730.0799999999999,"body":"And I had, like, what helped me"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":724.8399999999999,"endTime":730.0799999999999,"body":"the most was I grew confidence"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":730.0799999999999,"endTime":731.4599999999999,"body":"through that one experience."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":732.0799999999999,"endTime":732.9499999999999,"body":"That was one."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":733.28,"endTime":736.4599999999999,"body":"That confidence helped me"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":733.28,"endTime":736.4599999999999,"body":"and other people realize that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":736.47,"endTime":738.01,"body":"I was really good at that."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":738.41,"endTime":740.88,"body":"That people, my manager at that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":738.41,"endTime":740.88,"body":"time told me like, Hey, you're"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":740.88,"endTime":741.97,"body":"a really good program manager."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":741.98,"endTime":744.87,"body":"And I was like, Oh, okay,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":741.98,"endTime":744.87,"body":"well, thanks for that."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":745.1,"endTime":748.76,"body":"And that gave me the push that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":745.1,"endTime":748.76,"body":"I needed to search for that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":748.76,"endTime":751.8299999999999,"body":"role opportunity there, like"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":748.76,"endTime":751.8299999999999,"body":"at Pinterest, unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":752.0899999999999,"endTime":753.04,"body":"they weren't hiring for that."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":753.49,"endTime":757.1899999999999,"body":"But it gave me the fire"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":753.49,"endTime":757.1899999999999,"body":"to look externally because"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":757.1899999999999,"endTime":759.41,"body":"I knew that that's the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":757.1899999999999,"endTime":759.41,"body":"role that I wanted to do."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":759.61,"endTime":761.76,"body":"But in short, long story"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":759.61,"endTime":761.76,"body":"short, the two things"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":761.77,"endTime":764.6999999999999,"body":"that helped me was the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":761.77,"endTime":764.6999999999999,"body":"confidence, the confidence"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":764.7099999999999,"endTime":765.86,"body":"that I know I can do it."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":766.04,"endTime":768.8,"body":"And two, the way that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":766.04,"endTime":768.8,"body":"I'm able to articulate"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":768.81,"endTime":770.05,"body":"my transferable skills."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":770.47,"endTime":771.6999999999999,"body":"It says, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":770.47,"endTime":771.6999999999999,"body":"don't have a title."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":771.6999999999999,"endTime":774.26,"body":"I don't need the title"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":771.6999999999999,"endTime":774.26,"body":"because here's the experience"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":774.27,"endTime":776.37,"body":"and the learnings about"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":774.27,"endTime":776.37,"body":"what you said earlier."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":776.54,"endTime":780.0799999999999,"body":"It wasn't a perfect journey,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":776.54,"endTime":780.0799999999999,"body":"but I learned along the way."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":780.0899999999999,"endTime":783.93,"body":"And that's what made me shine,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":780.0899999999999,"endTime":783.93,"body":"in my opinion, in the interviews"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":783.93,"endTime":785.05,"body":"and what people cared about."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":785.3399999999999,"endTime":785.87,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":785.98,"endTime":786.39,"body":"You know what?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":786.4399999999999,"endTime":790.01,"body":"So many of these journeys,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":786.4399999999999,"endTime":790.01,"body":"a common thread of steel"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":790.1899999999999,"endTime":795.5799999999999,"body":"behind a sort of stereotypical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":790.1899999999999,"endTime":795.5799999999999,"body":"project manager origin story."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":796.06,"endTime":798.26,"body":"Sometimes it just begins"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":796.06,"endTime":798.26,"body":"with saying yes to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":798.26,"endTime":799.5899999999999,"body":"something scary, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":799.5899999999999,"endTime":800.53,"body":"You said it pulled you in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":800.54,"endTime":802.1899999999999,"body":"You're like, you weren't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":800.54,"endTime":802.1899999999999,"body":"even thinking about this as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":802.1899999999999,"endTime":804.53,"body":"a career, but there was an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":802.1899999999999,"endTime":804.53,"body":"opportunity to do something."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":804.53,"endTime":805.5899999999999,"body":"You wanted your name on it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":805.76,"endTime":808.0,"body":"You raised your hand and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":805.76,"endTime":808.0,"body":"you came up with a plan"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":808.01,"endTime":811.139,"body":"to make a compelling case"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":808.01,"endTime":811.139,"body":"to have you in the role."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":811.279,"endTime":814.499,"body":"And yes, an internal role, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":811.279,"endTime":814.499,"body":"yes, probably one where I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":814.499,"endTime":816.999,"body":"imagining you're contending"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":814.499,"endTime":816.999,"body":"with other people who were"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":816.999,"endTime":820.2289999999999,"body":"program managers, like, at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":816.999,"endTime":820.2289999999999,"body":"Pinterest, other people who,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":820.299,"endTime":821.909,"body":"had experience in projects."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":821.929,"endTime":824.159,"body":"But the one thing I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":821.929,"endTime":824.159,"body":"love is that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":824.169,"endTime":824.7389999999999,"body":"I think you're right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":824.769,"endTime":827.009,"body":"I think that there are a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":824.769,"endTime":827.009,"body":"lot of project management"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":827.009,"endTime":830.049,"body":"related skills that folks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":827.009,"endTime":830.049,"body":"are probably already doing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":830.069,"endTime":834.4739999999999,"body":"in their role and it's easy"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":830.069,"endTime":834.4739999999999,"body":"to like, be blind to it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":834.504,"endTime":835.2139999999999,"body":"Do you know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":835.334,"endTime":837.434,"body":"It's like one of those things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":835.334,"endTime":837.434,"body":"where, you know, like the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":837.434,"endTime":838.3439999999999,"body":"pivot thing you said earlier."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":838.3439999999999,"endTime":839.834,"body":"You're like, yeah, actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":838.3439999999999,"endTime":839.834,"body":"I have done a lot of pivots."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":839.834,"endTime":840.7139999999999,"body":"Thanks for pointing that out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":840.954,"endTime":843.1039999999999,"body":"Where it's like, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":840.954,"endTime":843.1039999999999,"body":"people don't know that they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":843.1039999999999,"endTime":845.534,"body":"have skills to be a great"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":843.1039999999999,"endTime":845.534,"body":"project or program manager, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":845.824,"endTime":848.994,"body":"to your point, are the types"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":845.824,"endTime":848.994,"body":"of people who are thinking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":848.994,"endTime":851.064,"body":"about what might happen or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":848.994,"endTime":851.064,"body":"what might not happen, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":851.074,"endTime":851.444,"body":"Risk."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":851.634,"endTime":853.904,"body":"Are communicating effectively"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":851.634,"endTime":853.904,"body":"with their teams, having team"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":853.904,"endTime":857.384,"body":"syncs, and there's just this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":853.904,"endTime":857.384,"body":"sort of almost just way of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":857.384,"endTime":860.439,"body":"working that really lends itself"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":857.384,"endTime":860.439,"body":"towards project management"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":860.439,"endTime":863.129,"body":"and program management, which,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":860.439,"endTime":863.129,"body":"I imagine there was probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":863.129,"endTime":866.1089999999999,"body":"some learning to do on the job"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":863.129,"endTime":866.1089999999999,"body":"beyond that once she landed it."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":867.059,"endTime":870.079,"body":"Yes, steep learning"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":867.059,"endTime":870.079,"body":"curve, but also it's just"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":870.079,"endTime":872.259,"body":"like, it's that mindset, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":872.269,"endTime":875.419,"body":"The mindset that to give"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":872.269,"endTime":875.419,"body":"yourself grace that you"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":875.419,"endTime":876.929,"body":"might not know everything."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":877.2239999999999,"endTime":880.774,"body":"And that grit to keep going and"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":877.2239999999999,"endTime":880.774,"body":"figure things out, ask for help"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":880.774,"endTime":884.8439999999999,"body":"when needed and get better,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":880.774,"endTime":884.8439999999999,"body":"grow on the job and get better."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":885.504,"endTime":886.494,"body":"Those are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":885.504,"endTime":886.494,"body":"all such good things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":886.494,"endTime":889.184,"body":"But I love to tie back to you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":886.494,"endTime":889.184,"body":"know, what's interesting is what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":889.194,"endTime":891.9639999999999,"body":"hasn't come up, no one asked me"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":889.194,"endTime":891.9639999999999,"body":"how good are you at, building"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":891.9639999999999,"endTime":894.3439999999999,"body":"a RACI chart or like some of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":891.9639999999999,"endTime":894.3439999999999,"body":"the more technical skills,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":894.3439999999999,"endTime":897.544,"body":"because I think, there is this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":894.3439999999999,"endTime":897.544,"body":"sort of combination of the soft"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":897.544,"endTime":898.764,"body":"skills and the grit, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":899.1139999999999,"endTime":902.184,"body":"And then combine that with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":899.1139999999999,"endTime":902.184,"body":"just the willingness to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":902.184,"endTime":904.5939999999999,"body":"sort of take a risk and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":902.184,"endTime":904.5939999999999,"body":"put yourself out there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":904.8439999999999,"endTime":908.2139999999999,"body":"Learn as you go, and, just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":904.8439999999999,"endTime":908.2139999999999,"body":"really try and keep up, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":908.2139999999999,"endTime":909.8639999999999,"body":"that creates this opportunity."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":909.8639999999999,"endTime":914.014,"body":"And I think, the big sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":909.8639999999999,"endTime":914.014,"body":"piece that I see often is a lot"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":914.014,"endTime":916.569,"body":"of the time folks probably have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":914.014,"endTime":916.569,"body":"been involved in a project."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":916.5889999999999,"endTime":918.1089999999999,"body":"They might not have been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":916.5889999999999,"endTime":918.1089999999999,"body":"leading it, but they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":918.1089999999999,"endTime":919.039,"body":"might have experienced it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":919.129,"endTime":920.8489999999999,"body":"When I applied for my"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":919.129,"endTime":920.8489999999999,"body":"PMP, it's like, Oh, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":920.8489999999999,"endTime":922.799,"body":"have to have like years of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":920.8489999999999,"endTime":922.799,"body":"experience leading projects."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":922.799,"endTime":925.809,"body":"But I think, I mean, at least"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":922.799,"endTime":925.809,"body":"at the time it was like, what is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":925.809,"endTime":927.029,"body":"your experience with projects?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":927.189,"endTime":929.419,"body":"Whether you were called"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":927.189,"endTime":929.419,"body":"a project manager or not."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":929.659,"endTime":932.819,"body":"And I think that was really a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":929.659,"endTime":932.819,"body":"really important lens to sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":932.819,"endTime":935.449,"body":"of build confidence to say,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":932.819,"endTime":935.449,"body":"Oh yeah, I have been doing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":935.449,"endTime":936.329,"body":"stuff like that actually."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":936.544,"endTime":938.374,"body":"You know, even in my sales"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":936.544,"endTime":938.374,"body":"role, I was doing that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":938.384,"endTime":941.2339999999999,"body":"Even in my CSN role, I was"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":938.384,"endTime":941.2339999999999,"body":"doing that and sort of using"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":941.2339999999999,"endTime":945.014,"body":"that as part of the sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":941.2339999999999,"endTime":945.014,"body":"conversation or pitch, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":945.134,"endTime":946.2339999999999,"body":"of yourself and your skills."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":946.374,"endTime":947.1039999999999,"body":"That's super cool."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":947.394,"endTime":949.2139999999999,"body":"I thought maybe we can dive"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":947.394,"endTime":949.2139999999999,"body":"into some of the tough stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":949.824,"endTime":951.9839999999999,"body":"It's not really that tough,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":949.824,"endTime":951.9839999999999,"body":"but you know, I think we've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":951.9839999999999,"endTime":954.774,"body":"been talking about your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":951.9839999999999,"endTime":954.774,"body":"journey and I think, I guess"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":954.774,"endTime":957.7139999999999,"body":"arguably, you've been sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":954.774,"endTime":957.7139999999999,"body":"working in a specific space."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":957.7139999999999,"endTime":960.059,"body":"We're talking about, Pinterest,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":957.7139999999999,"endTime":960.059,"body":"we're talking about sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":960.119,"endTime":961.409,"body":"lead gen for a SaaS company."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":961.549,"endTime":964.639,"body":"I know that you have sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":961.549,"endTime":964.639,"body":"of varied experience, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":964.659,"endTime":966.559,"body":"I think some folks might be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":964.659,"endTime":966.559,"body":"listening and they're like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":966.559,"endTime":969.779,"body":"yeah, that all seems pretty"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":966.559,"endTime":969.779,"body":"like related and transferable."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":969.779,"endTime":972.409,"body":"You're working for some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":969.779,"endTime":972.409,"body":"companies that recognize"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":972.409,"endTime":974.029,"body":"the companies you've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":972.409,"endTime":974.029,"body":"worked for in the past."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":974.3389999999999,"endTime":976.159,"body":"But, like I was saying in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":974.3389999999999,"endTime":976.159,"body":"my community, there's lots"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":976.159,"endTime":979.754,"body":"of folks who have a little"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":976.159,"endTime":979.754,"body":"bit more varied experience."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":979.784,"endTime":983.264,"body":"Like their journey is, doesn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":979.784,"endTime":983.264,"body":"sort of seem as connected."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":983.404,"endTime":985.994,"body":"For example, some folks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":983.404,"endTime":985.994,"body":"have held roles as like a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":985.994,"endTime":989.524,"body":"Montessori teacher or as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":985.994,"endTime":989.524,"body":"bartenders or as electricians."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":989.554,"endTime":992.144,"body":"And, they're making that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":989.554,"endTime":992.144,"body":"pivot to project management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":992.509,"endTime":994.659,"body":"I'm just wondering, what advice"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":992.509,"endTime":994.659,"body":"do you have for someone who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":994.659,"endTime":996.499,"body":"has a less related career path?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":996.499,"endTime":998.169,"body":"Like, how can they tell"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":996.499,"endTime":998.169,"body":"that story of how their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":998.179,"endTime":1000.369,"body":"background is going to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":998.179,"endTime":1000.369,"body":"make them an awesome PM?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1000.769,"endTime":1003.999,"body":"I think the first"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1000.769,"endTime":1003.999,"body":"exercise I would do is, well,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1004.019,"endTime":1007.169,"body":"first, you should know what"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1004.019,"endTime":1007.169,"body":"the general scope of a PM's"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1007.179,"endTime":1009.2189999999999,"body":"responsibility is, because"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1007.179,"endTime":1009.2189999999999,"body":"I think that is really"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1009.2189999999999,"endTime":1012.689,"body":"important before you are"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1009.2189999999999,"endTime":1012.689,"body":"set on a path to become one."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1013.009,"endTime":1016.1089999999999,"body":"And then part two to that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1013.009,"endTime":1016.1089999999999,"body":"is thinking about, like, why"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1016.279,"endTime":1017.679,"body":"would you want to become one?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1018.019,"endTime":1020.629,"body":"Those two things will help"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1018.019,"endTime":1020.629,"body":"you craft your story and your"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1020.629,"endTime":1023.199,"body":"narrative for when people are"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1020.629,"endTime":1023.199,"body":"going to ask you, why are you"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1023.199,"endTime":1025.419,"body":"looking to pivot from X to Y?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1025.789,"endTime":1027.049,"body":"You need to say"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1025.789,"endTime":1027.049,"body":"something, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1027.049,"endTime":1028.689,"body":"It's not just, Hey,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1027.049,"endTime":1028.689,"body":"it's a sexy title."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1028.689,"endTime":1030.429,"body":"It's this company or I"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1028.689,"endTime":1030.429,"body":"want to make more money,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1030.949,"endTime":1033.519,"body":"which surprisingly, a lot"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1030.949,"endTime":1033.519,"body":"of people, those are some"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1033.519,"endTime":1034.689,"body":"legit answers that you get."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1034.689,"endTime":1037.749,"body":"It needs to be much more"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1034.689,"endTime":1037.749,"body":"compelling than that."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1037.969,"endTime":1041.499,"body":"But when you are set on"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1037.969,"endTime":1041.499,"body":"that path, what I recommend"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1041.499,"endTime":1044.8790000000001,"body":"some folks is what you said"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1041.499,"endTime":1044.8790000000001,"body":"earlier, it's like, how"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1044.8790000000001,"endTime":1048.509,"body":"are you identifying ways to"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1044.8790000000001,"endTime":1048.509,"body":"weave in what you know about"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1048.519,"endTime":1050.139,"body":"driving projects in general?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1050.4089999999999,"endTime":1053.329,"body":"It's about adopting"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1050.4089999999999,"endTime":1053.329,"body":"the PM frame of mind."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1053.469,"endTime":1055.979,"body":"One of the people that I"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1053.469,"endTime":1055.979,"body":"helped through my course,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1056.699,"endTime":1057.949,"body":"she's an incredible force."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1057.949,"endTime":1059.599,"body":"She was not a program"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1057.949,"endTime":1059.599,"body":"manager before."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1059.599,"endTime":1062.6589999999999,"body":"She was in the HR recruiting"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1059.599,"endTime":1062.6589999999999,"body":"space, but even her, she was"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1062.6589999999999,"endTime":1066.6689999999999,"body":"able to make that pivot because"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1062.6589999999999,"endTime":1066.6689999999999,"body":"she was able to open up her"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1066.6689999999999,"endTime":1071.069,"body":"mind and realize, wow, I can"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1066.6689999999999,"endTime":1071.069,"body":"exhibit these qualities, even"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1071.069,"endTime":1072.189,"body":"though I don't have that title."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1072.189,"endTime":1073.699,"body":"And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1072.189,"endTime":1073.699,"body":"going to be the biggest"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1073.749,"endTime":1075.329,"body":"unlock for you, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1075.619,"endTime":1078.989,"body":"So teacher, for example, because"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1075.619,"endTime":1078.989,"body":"I know some teachers, they"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1078.989,"endTime":1082.399,"body":"are daunted, but I've seen"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1078.989,"endTime":1082.399,"body":"a lot of successful teachers"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1082.599,"endTime":1084.109,"body":"pivot project management."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1084.354,"endTime":1086.824,"body":"Tactically, some things that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1084.354,"endTime":1086.824,"body":"you can do is think about"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1086.824,"endTime":1089.154,"body":"all the times where you"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1086.824,"endTime":1089.154,"body":"had to work with all these"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1089.154,"endTime":1090.574,"body":"different stakeholders, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1090.574,"endTime":1091.644,"body":"Or host events."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1091.744,"endTime":1093.8039999999999,"body":"I'm sure you're doing a lot"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1091.744,"endTime":1093.8039999999999,"body":"of that stuff, creating a"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1093.8039999999999,"endTime":1097.494,"body":"plan, getting buy in, working"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1093.8039999999999,"endTime":1097.494,"body":"with different teams, event"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1097.514,"endTime":1099.404,"body":"planning, coordination, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1099.774,"endTime":1104.114,"body":"What makes your story compelling"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1099.774,"endTime":1104.114,"body":"is when you can have a"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1104.114,"endTime":1105.854,"body":"measurable outcome, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1105.854,"endTime":1108.244,"body":"When you can articulate"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1105.854,"endTime":1108.244,"body":"the impact that you have."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1108.484,"endTime":1111.5439999999999,"body":"It's not just about how many"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1108.484,"endTime":1111.5439999999999,"body":"project plans and RACI charts"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1111.5439999999999,"endTime":1114.494,"body":"that you created, but what was"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1111.5439999999999,"endTime":1114.494,"body":"the impact and telling that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1114.494,"endTime":1118.494,"body":"story is, I would say, makes"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1114.494,"endTime":1118.494,"body":"it turnkey in the interview."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1118.494,"endTime":1120.504,"body":"That's when people are"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1118.494,"endTime":1120.504,"body":"like, wow, you're right."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1120.884,"endTime":1122.864,"body":"You would be a really"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1120.884,"endTime":1122.864,"body":"good program manager"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1122.864,"endTime":1124.0339999999999,"body":"or project manager."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1124.254,"endTime":1127.624,"body":"So it's about knowing your why"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1124.254,"endTime":1127.624,"body":"for why you're choosing this"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1127.654,"endTime":1129.5339999999999,"body":"path and your strengths, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1129.574,"endTime":1132.174,"body":"It's a lot about it"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1129.574,"endTime":1132.174,"body":"is soft skills versus"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1132.194,"endTime":1133.234,"body":"the technical skills."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1133.234,"endTime":1136.134,"body":"You can learn how to"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1133.234,"endTime":1136.134,"body":"build a RACI or decision"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1136.134,"endTime":1138.024,"body":"making framework, all"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1136.134,"endTime":1138.024,"body":"of that good stuff."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1138.234,"endTime":1140.114,"body":"But it's your ability to"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1138.234,"endTime":1140.114,"body":"how, to know how to work"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1140.114,"endTime":1143.084,"body":"with people to communicate"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1140.114,"endTime":1143.084,"body":"effectively, conflict"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1143.084,"endTime":1144.404,"body":"resolution, stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1144.414,"endTime":1147.5339999999999,"body":"And then articulating"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1144.414,"endTime":1147.5339999999999,"body":"that story, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1147.714,"endTime":1149.604,"body":"Of all the best"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1147.714,"endTime":1149.604,"body":"accomplishments that you've"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1149.604,"endTime":1153.644,"body":"had that was a project,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1149.604,"endTime":1153.644,"body":"what makes it a project?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1153.844,"endTime":1155.204,"body":"What was your role in that?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1155.204,"endTime":1157.974,"body":"And what's the impact"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1155.204,"endTime":1157.974,"body":"that you had for others?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1158.014,"endTime":1160.564,"body":"And if you could tie it"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1158.014,"endTime":1160.564,"body":"back to the company's goals"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1160.594,"endTime":1162.074,"body":"and vision, slam dunk."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1162.204,"endTime":1162.664,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1162.664,"endTime":1163.024,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1163.104,"endTime":1166.764,"body":"Like the notion of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1163.104,"endTime":1166.764,"body":"understanding the why of you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1166.774,"endTime":1169.494,"body":"Like personally, like we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1166.774,"endTime":1169.494,"body":"started out with why do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1169.494,"endTime":1171.144,"body":"you want to have this role?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1171.174,"endTime":1172.204,"body":"What is driving you there?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1172.579,"endTime":1173.029,"body":"Yeah, sure."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1173.029,"endTime":1174.949,"body":"Maybe title, maybe money,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1173.029,"endTime":1174.949,"body":"but what's beyond that?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1175.289,"endTime":1179.579,"body":"Also the why of like, why is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1175.289,"endTime":1179.579,"body":"this, prospective employer"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1179.629,"endTime":1182.749,"body":"looking for a program manager"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1179.629,"endTime":1182.749,"body":"and what do they want out of it?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1182.759,"endTime":1185.4089999999999,"body":"And I love how it ties"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1182.759,"endTime":1185.4089999999999,"body":"back to, the values and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1185.719,"endTime":1187.329,"body":"goals of that organization."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1187.359,"endTime":1189.009,"body":"And the marriage of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1187.359,"endTime":1189.009,"body":"those two things really."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1189.009,"endTime":1190.519,"body":"And that's what kind"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1189.009,"endTime":1190.519,"body":"of makes it make sense."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1190.549,"endTime":1192.6689999999999,"body":"Again, it's project management"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1190.549,"endTime":1192.6689999999999,"body":"is one of those funny"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1192.6689999999999,"endTime":1195.939,"body":"things I find where I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1192.6689999999999,"endTime":1195.939,"body":"conversations at the superficial"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1195.939,"endTime":1199.289,"body":"level create a whole bunch"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1195.939,"endTime":1199.289,"body":"of myths about what it is."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1199.449,"endTime":1202.529,"body":"They've gotten their PMP and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1199.449,"endTime":1202.529,"body":"they, have just written their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1202.529,"endTime":1205.829,"body":"exam and they still know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1202.529,"endTime":1205.829,"body":"the PMBOK inside and out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1206.319,"endTime":1208.574,"body":"And they're starting out and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1206.319,"endTime":1208.574,"body":"they're like, okay, how do I use"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1208.584,"endTime":1210.154,"body":"all the tools like all at once?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1210.154,"endTime":1213.684,"body":"And it's not really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1210.154,"endTime":1213.684,"body":"necessarily about all the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1213.684,"endTime":1216.5539999999999,"body":"tools and techniques, it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1213.684,"endTime":1216.5539999999999,"body":"about driving that outcome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1216.574,"endTime":1218.574,"body":"It's about, you know, for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1216.574,"endTime":1218.574,"body":"the time being, it's about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1218.574,"endTime":1221.024,"body":"humans working together"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1218.574,"endTime":1221.024,"body":"to do a thing that's going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1221.024,"endTime":1222.3039999999999,"body":"to require soft skills."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1222.3039999999999,"endTime":1224.344,"body":"It's going to require,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1222.3039999999999,"endTime":1224.344,"body":"an understanding of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1224.344,"endTime":1225.904,"body":"business context that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1224.344,"endTime":1225.904,"body":"you're working within."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1226.214,"endTime":1229.394,"body":"And it's going to hinge"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1226.214,"endTime":1229.394,"body":"around your like ability"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1229.394,"endTime":1231.7939999999999,"body":"to learn quickly, no"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1229.394,"endTime":1231.7939999999999,"body":"matter where you are."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1231.814,"endTime":1234.084,"body":"Like there's no such thing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1231.814,"endTime":1234.084,"body":"as knowing everything,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1234.154,"endTime":1235.024,"body":"I think anymore."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1235.329,"endTime":1239.099,"body":"And so if you can keep pace"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1235.329,"endTime":1239.099,"body":"and, be learning, then yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1239.099,"endTime":1240.1689999999999,"body":"those are, I agree with you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1240.1689999999999,"endTime":1243.289,"body":"I think those are like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1240.1689999999999,"endTime":1243.289,"body":"the right ingredients for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1243.579,"endTime":1245.089,"body":"a good program manager."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1245.329,"endTime":1246.849,"body":"Program/project"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1245.329,"endTime":1246.849,"body":"manager, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1246.849,"endTime":1247.729,"body":"we're adjacent roles."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1247.749,"endTime":1248.359,"body":"I agree."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1248.639,"endTime":1248.969,"body":"That's fair."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1248.969,"endTime":1249.189,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1249.239,"endTime":1251.1689999999999,"body":"It's probably worthwhile"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1249.239,"endTime":1251.1689999999999,"body":"clarifying that because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1251.389,"endTime":1253.7939999999999,"body":"I know that titling is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1251.389,"endTime":1253.7939999999999,"body":"funny in our world, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1254.654,"endTime":1257.604,"body":"In your role, program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1254.654,"endTime":1257.604,"body":"management, I think is multiple"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1257.604,"endTime":1260.754,"body":"projects sort of within a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1257.604,"endTime":1260.754,"body":"related program to drive,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1260.8039999999999,"endTime":1263.214,"body":"a business outcome in the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1260.8039999999999,"endTime":1263.214,"body":"sort of strategic roadmap."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1263.214,"endTime":1264.084,"body":"Would that be fair to say?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1264.254,"endTime":1266.7939999999999,"body":"And honestly, I"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1264.254,"endTime":1266.7939999999999,"body":"think that's, yeah, I roll my"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1266.7939999999999,"endTime":1269.624,"body":"eyes sometimes when there's"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1266.7939999999999,"endTime":1269.624,"body":"just so many different titles."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1269.624,"endTime":1271.819,"body":"I'm like, you're"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1269.624,"endTime":1271.819,"body":"basically the PM, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1272.269,"endTime":1275.579,"body":"And program managers are"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1272.269,"endTime":1275.579,"body":"an extension of a project."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1275.629,"endTime":1278.299,"body":"Man, you are driving a"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1275.629,"endTime":1278.299,"body":"project, whether it's a big"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1278.299,"endTime":1280.009,"body":"project or a small project."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1280.379,"endTime":1282.799,"body":"As long as you're driving"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1280.379,"endTime":1282.799,"body":"a project, you're a PM."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1283.189,"endTime":1285.1589999999999,"body":"It's actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1283.189,"endTime":1285.1589999999999,"body":"funny because like in, in some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1285.1589999999999,"endTime":1288.569,"body":"of what you teach and write"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1285.1589999999999,"endTime":1288.569,"body":"about, it's like path into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1288.939,"endTime":1292.109,"body":"project or program management"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1288.939,"endTime":1292.109,"body":"and in some ways also that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1292.109,"endTime":1295.349,"body":"pivots sometimes from like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1292.109,"endTime":1295.349,"body":"into program management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1295.649,"endTime":1298.489,"body":"And I've always took it to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1295.649,"endTime":1298.489,"body":"mean like sort of changing that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1298.489,"endTime":1304.229,"body":"mindset from sort of delivering"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1298.489,"endTime":1304.229,"body":"one project to looking at it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1304.259,"endTime":1306.999,"body":"as, again, what you said about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1304.259,"endTime":1306.999,"body":"the impact and okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1307.129,"endTime":1308.6789999999999,"body":"what does this tie back into?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1308.6789999999999,"endTime":1310.809,"body":"And I think talking to some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1308.6789999999999,"endTime":1310.809,"body":"folks about what makes a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1310.809,"endTime":1314.539,"body":"great program manager, it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1310.809,"endTime":1314.539,"body":"understanding the business"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1314.539,"endTime":1317.029,"body":"because fundamentally this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1314.539,"endTime":1317.029,"body":"program is part of an initiative"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1317.039,"endTime":1319.729,"body":"that is meant to achieve some"},{"speaker":"Galen 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Low","startTime":1330.204,"endTime":1333.7939999999999,"body":"think you came into like project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1333.7939999999999,"endTime":1336.814,"body":"management, understanding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1333.7939999999999,"endTime":1336.814,"body":"that a project is part of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1336.814,"endTime":1338.354,"body":"a bigger sort of ecosystem."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1338.674,"endTime":1340.674,"body":"It's not just a project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1338.674,"endTime":1340.674,"body":"to be delivered."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1340.934,"endTime":1342.354,"body":"Anyways, that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1340.934,"endTime":1342.354,"body":"how I read into it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1342.424,"endTime":1344.974,"body":"One of the courses you have,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1342.424,"endTime":1344.974,"body":"I feel like, is that pivoting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1344.994,"endTime":1346.0339999999999,"body":"into program management?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1346.204,"endTime":1348.815,"body":"Oh, the one on"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1346.204,"endTime":1348.815,"body":"Maven that I teach, it's"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1348.815,"endTime":1350.115,"body":"Pivot to Program Management."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1350.415,"endTime":1355.315,"body":"So that one is more about you"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1350.415,"endTime":1355.315,"body":"already are in the role of"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1355.325,"endTime":1359.815,"body":"a project manager, but how"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1355.325,"endTime":1359.815,"body":"might you articulate your"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1359.815,"endTime":1363.5049999999999,"body":"transferable skills to make"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1359.815,"endTime":1363.5049999999999,"body":"that pivot into a more strategic"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1363.675,"endTime":1365.455,"body":"role like program management?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1365.895,"endTime":1366.815,"body":"The whole journey."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1367.035,"endTime":1371.305,"body":"I wanted to circle around to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1367.035,"endTime":1371.305,"body":"a tricky question because,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1371.635,"endTime":1374.635,"body":"I think part of your brand"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1371.635,"endTime":1374.635,"body":"is this notion that you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1374.635,"endTime":1378.185,"body":"don't necessarily need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1374.635,"endTime":1378.185,"body":"have these credentials to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1378.185,"endTime":1380.145,"body":"get a project manager role."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1380.2749999999999,"endTime":1383.065,"body":"Like for example, can't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1380.2749999999999,"endTime":1383.065,"body":"get a job without a PMP."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1383.075,"endTime":1383.615,"body":"You did."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1384.615,"endTime":1385.355,"body":"You're doing great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1385.695,"endTime":1388.285,"body":"Tell me your thoughts just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1385.695,"endTime":1388.285,"body":"overall on like project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1388.285,"endTime":1392.575,"body":"management and education"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1388.285,"endTime":1392.575,"body":"versus that gritty experience."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1392.985,"endTime":1394.645,"body":"Yeah, this"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1392.985,"endTime":1394.645,"body":"is a spicy topic."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1394.805,"endTime":1397.785,"body":"The listeners and the community"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1394.805,"endTime":1397.785,"body":"has thoughts around this."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1398.2549999999999,"endTime":1403.545,"body":"My stance is if you want to"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1398.2549999999999,"endTime":1403.545,"body":"build up your knowledge and"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1403.545,"endTime":1405.7649999999999,"body":"you're really passionate about"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1403.545,"endTime":1405.7649999999999,"body":"project management, I think"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1406.065,"endTime":1409.545,"body":"up leveling yourself through"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1406.065,"endTime":1409.545,"body":"education, bootcamp courses,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1409.545,"endTime":1412.405,"body":"I think they're great for"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1409.545,"endTime":1412.405,"body":"anybody even beyond just the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1412.405,"endTime":1414.065,"body":"topic of project management."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1414.685,"endTime":1418.935,"body":"That being said, if your end"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1414.685,"endTime":1418.935,"body":"goal is you just wanting to"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1418.945,"endTime":1423.325,"body":"be, like, grow into that path,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1418.945,"endTime":1423.325,"body":"right, and be successful in"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1423.325,"endTime":1428.0149999999999,"body":"the role, I don't believe that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1423.325,"endTime":1428.0149999999999,"body":"it's critical to get there."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1428.985,"endTime":1434.655,"body":"What I think is more important"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1428.985,"endTime":1434.655,"body":"is learning live, applying the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1434.655,"endTime":1436.195,"body":"skills, and learning on the job."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1436.43,"endTime":1439.11,"body":"One of the things that I"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1436.43,"endTime":1439.11,"body":"think somebody mentioned"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1439.11,"endTime":1443.04,"body":"to me about the difference"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1439.11,"endTime":1443.04,"body":"between hiring somebody who"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1443.23,"endTime":1445.76,"body":"had all the certifications"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1443.23,"endTime":1445.76,"body":"and then there was somebody"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1445.76,"endTime":1449.18,"body":"else that was a self taught"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1445.76,"endTime":1449.18,"body":"accidental one, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1449.2,"endTime":1452.53,"body":"And unfortunately the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1449.2,"endTime":1452.53,"body":"one with the PMP didn't"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1452.53,"endTime":1453.77,"body":"stick around long enough."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1453.78,"endTime":1456.96,"body":"And it's because that their"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1453.78,"endTime":1456.96,"body":"soft skills were lacking,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1456.97,"endTime":1459.3999999999999,"body":"even though they had all"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1456.97,"endTime":1459.3999999999999,"body":"the technical know-how."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1459.74,"endTime":1462.66,"body":"So all to say, everybody's"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1459.74,"endTime":1462.66,"body":"different, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1462.66,"endTime":1465.19,"body":"You can have both and"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1462.66,"endTime":1465.19,"body":"be wildly successful."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1465.19,"endTime":1470.665,"body":"And in my case, I index heavily"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1465.19,"endTime":1470.665,"body":"on learning on the go, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1471.0249999999999,"endTime":1472.585,"body":"And I'm fast to learn."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1472.595,"endTime":1476.795,"body":"And I was able to also treat"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1472.595,"endTime":1476.795,"body":"every project brand new,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1476.955,"endTime":1479.375,"body":"treat every opportunity"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1476.955,"endTime":1479.375,"body":"at a company brand new."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1479.405,"endTime":1482.915,"body":"So even though I had"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1479.405,"endTime":1482.915,"body":"methodologies that I know work"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1482.925,"endTime":1487.225,"body":"well, you have to be able to"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1482.925,"endTime":1487.225,"body":"sometimes scrap it because every"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1487.225,"endTime":1490.435,"body":"company and people that you"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1487.225,"endTime":1490.435,"body":"work with operate differently."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1490.7749999999999,"endTime":1494.655,"body":"And somehow that ended up"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1490.7749999999999,"endTime":1494.655,"body":"becoming my secret weapon"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1494.655,"endTime":1497.685,"body":"where I'm not, yeah I will"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1494.655,"endTime":1497.685,"body":"pick and choose and come up"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1497.685,"endTime":1501.2549999999999,"body":"with the right formula for"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1497.685,"endTime":1501.2549999999999,"body":"that project for my people."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1501.425,"endTime":1502.075,"body":"You know, it's funny."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1502.075,"endTime":1505.225,"body":"We often get asked, what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1502.075,"endTime":1505.225,"body":"makes digital project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1505.225,"endTime":1507.5149999999999,"body":"management different"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1505.225,"endTime":1507.5149999999999,"body":"from project management?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1507.5149999999999,"endTime":1509.245,"body":"And my answer is usually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1507.5149999999999,"endTime":1509.245,"body":"you know, it's like, it's a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1509.245,"endTime":1510.2549999999999,"body":"flavor of project management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1510.2549999999999,"endTime":1511.575,"body":"It's not like a whole"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1510.2549999999999,"endTime":1511.575,"body":"different thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1511.795,"endTime":1513.7749999999999,"body":"But some of the things you just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1511.795,"endTime":1513.7749999999999,"body":"described are things that are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1513.905,"endTime":1517.475,"body":"thematically always present in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1513.905,"endTime":1517.475,"body":"conversations I'm having about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1517.475,"endTime":1518.835,"body":"projects in a digital context."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1518.845,"endTime":1521.345,"body":"Because again, that notion"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1518.845,"endTime":1521.345,"body":"of not being able to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1521.345,"endTime":1522.485,"body":"know everything, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1522.495,"endTime":1524.455,"body":"There's technology and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1522.495,"endTime":1524.455,"body":"like everything in the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1524.455,"endTime":1527.185,"body":"digital industry, trends are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1524.455,"endTime":1527.185,"body":"changing so fast, like you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1527.185,"endTime":1529.385,"body":"can't just know everything."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1529.5249999999999,"endTime":1531.885,"body":"And because of that, not every"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1529.5249999999999,"endTime":1531.885,"body":"project is going to be the same."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1531.885,"endTime":1534.325,"body":"So you might have to be a bit"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1531.885,"endTime":1534.325,"body":"adaptable and you can't just,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1534.375,"endTime":1538.795,"body":"be tunnel vision, autopilot on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1534.375,"endTime":1538.795,"body":"anything because you're probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1538.805,"endTime":1540.0049999999999,"body":"working with different teams."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1540.0049999999999,"endTime":1542.445,"body":"Suddenly you have a linguist"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1540.0049999999999,"endTime":1542.445,"body":"on your team and it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1542.445,"endTime":1544.155,"body":"mean you can't use Scrum."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1544.435,"endTime":1547.425,"body":"But you might have to adapt"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1544.435,"endTime":1547.425,"body":"your approach in one or more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1547.425,"endTime":1549.945,"body":"ways just with the mix of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1547.425,"endTime":1549.945,"body":"people that you have and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1549.965,"endTime":1552.095,"body":"the goals that you have, the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1549.965,"endTime":1552.095,"body":"technology that you have."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1552.305,"endTime":1554.2549999999999,"body":"And then of course, the argument"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1552.305,"endTime":1554.2549999999999,"body":"zooming out is like, well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1554.475,"endTime":1555.405,"body":"isn't that true everywhere?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1555.5149999999999,"endTime":1556.785,"body":"And I'm like, maybe, maybe."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1556.815,"endTime":1559.625,"body":"But definitely in digital,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1556.815,"endTime":1559.625,"body":"I find that it's like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1559.665,"endTime":1560.465,"body":"that is the skill."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1560.5149999999999,"endTime":1563.91,"body":"Learning fast, like being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1560.5149999999999,"endTime":1563.91,"body":"able to deliver on the soft"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1563.91,"endTime":1567.62,"body":"skills to make sure everyone's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1563.91,"endTime":1567.62,"body":"in lockstep at pace and then"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1567.6299999999999,"endTime":1571.36,"body":"just, yeah, being passionate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1567.6299999999999,"endTime":1571.36,"body":"about the role and like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1571.36,"endTime":1572.52,"body":"the outcome and the impact."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1572.57,"endTime":1575.24,"body":"And I think like those are the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1572.57,"endTime":1575.24,"body":"things that really sort of tie"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1575.24,"endTime":1579.08,"body":"it all together, not as someone"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1575.24,"endTime":1579.08,"body":"who, has all the recipes up"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1579.08,"endTime":1583.1,"body":"their sleeve for, delivering"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1579.08,"endTime":1583.1,"body":"a great project, but someone"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1583.1,"endTime":1587.1499999999999,"body":"who's, willing to read the tea"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1583.1,"endTime":1587.1499999999999,"body":"leaves and understand what to do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1587.1499999999999,"endTime":1590.45,"body":"and how to get from A to B, even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1587.1499999999999,"endTime":1590.45,"body":"if it's not a straight line."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1590.51,"endTime":1592.09,"body":"And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1590.51,"endTime":1592.09,"body":"a really good skill."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1592.48,"endTime":1593.06,"body":"I agree."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1593.22,"endTime":1595.01,"body":"It's probably one of the"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1593.22,"endTime":1595.01,"body":"best skills and it's it"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1595.01,"endTime":1597.66,"body":"becomes a life skill too,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1595.01,"endTime":1597.66,"body":"how I approach things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1597.8999999999999,"endTime":1598.86,"body":"That's what I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1597.8999999999999,"endTime":1598.86,"body":"was going to say, actually."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1598.86,"endTime":1599.03,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1599.37,"endTime":1601.62,"body":"I'm like, does this maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1599.37,"endTime":1601.62,"body":"apply beyond project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1601.62,"endTime":1602.97,"body":"management into everything?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1603.43,"endTime":1606.6499999999999,"body":"And I think the answer is yes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1603.43,"endTime":1606.6499999999999,"body":"right now, right?There's so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1606.6499999999999,"endTime":1607.98,"body":"much to learn, so much to know."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1608.1299999999999,"endTime":1610.58,"body":"Yeah, it's that adaptability"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1608.1299999999999,"endTime":1610.58,"body":"that is the asset."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1611.12,"endTime":1613.1399999999999,"body":"I thought I'd blend out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1611.12,"endTime":1613.1399999999999,"body":"with one last question."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1613.32,"endTime":1615.16,"body":"Because we've been talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1613.32,"endTime":1615.16,"body":"about, your pivots."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1615.49,"endTime":1617.18,"body":"I'll throw it in the show notes,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1615.49,"endTime":1617.18,"body":"because I think you're quite"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1617.18,"endTime":1619.55,"body":"open about it, about what your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1617.18,"endTime":1619.55,"body":"pivots have been in your career."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1619.76,"endTime":1621.915,"body":"But I thought I'd ask, if"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1619.76,"endTime":1621.915,"body":"you could do it all again,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1621.955,"endTime":1623.975,"body":"would you still do all the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1621.955,"endTime":1623.975,"body":"pivots, or would you try"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1623.975,"endTime":1626.935,"body":"to invest more time into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1623.975,"endTime":1626.935,"body":"one role, one employer?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1627.345,"endTime":1629.155,"body":"Hopefully this"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1627.345,"endTime":1629.155,"body":"is not a cop out answer."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1629.565,"endTime":1633.175,"body":"But, the short answer is, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1629.565,"endTime":1633.175,"body":"there's not a single pivot I"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1633.175,"endTime":1635.855,"body":"regret, and I'm also the type"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1633.175,"endTime":1635.855,"body":"of person that just doesn't"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1635.855,"endTime":1638.495,"body":"want to regret anything in"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1635.855,"endTime":1638.495,"body":"life because they always serve"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1638.495,"endTime":1641.37,"body":"as a learning moment for me."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1641.6499999999999,"endTime":1644.23,"body":"And just to add additional"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1641.6499999999999,"endTime":1644.23,"body":"color that a lot of people may"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1644.23,"endTime":1647.41,"body":"not know is sometimes I had to"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1644.23,"endTime":1647.41,"body":"pivot not because I wanted to,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1647.41,"endTime":1649.09,"body":"but because I had to, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1649.25,"endTime":1650.81,"body":"I needed a new job."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1650.8799999999999,"endTime":1654.73,"body":"And sometimes I needed not"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1650.8799999999999,"endTime":1654.73,"body":"to have a job because things"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1654.73,"endTime":1656.03,"body":"happen in life, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1656.28,"endTime":1657.95,"body":"We all know that life happens."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1658.33,"endTime":1660.12,"body":"So that was important for me."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1660.12,"endTime":1663.41,"body":"And I think it really challenged"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1660.12,"endTime":1663.41,"body":"who I am as a person, my"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1663.41,"endTime":1666.74,"body":"character as well, because you"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1663.41,"endTime":1666.74,"body":"have to be willing to make trade"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1666.74,"endTime":1669.83,"body":"offs, difficult trade offs in"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1666.74,"endTime":1669.83,"body":"your life and in your career."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1670.04,"endTime":1671.61,"body":"And that also applies, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1671.6299999999999,"endTime":1673.1299999999999,"body":"There's life and also projects."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1673.1299999999999,"endTime":1676.23,"body":"You have to make tough trade"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1673.1299999999999,"endTime":1676.23,"body":"offs and conversations with"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1676.23,"endTime":1677.29,"body":"yourself, with other people."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1677.96,"endTime":1679.3899999999999,"body":"So, no regrets."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1679.75,"endTime":1680.2,"body":"I love it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1680.23,"endTime":1682.33,"body":"And not a cop out answer"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1680.23,"endTime":1682.33,"body":"at all in my books."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1682.36,"endTime":1685.12,"body":"And what I really love about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1682.36,"endTime":1685.12,"body":"that is it stands to reason, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1685.1399999999999,"endTime":1686.28,"body":"grew up this way as well, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1686.28,"endTime":1688.8899999999999,"body":"It's like, okay, get a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1686.28,"endTime":1688.8899999999999,"body":"job, stay in that job for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1688.8899999999999,"endTime":1691.58,"body":"as long as you can suffer"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1688.8899999999999,"endTime":1691.58,"body":"whatever you must suffer,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1691.76,"endTime":1694.05,"body":"because that's what's really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1691.76,"endTime":1694.05,"body":"gonna make it work for you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1694.3799999999999,"endTime":1696.56,"body":"And, looking at it now, I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1694.3799999999999,"endTime":1696.56,"body":"like, yeah, there's so many"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1696.61,"endTime":1700.34,"body":"not even just toxic work"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1696.61,"endTime":1700.34,"body":"situations, but sometimes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1700.34,"endTime":1701.2,"body":"it's just not a fit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1701.46,"endTime":1705.1499999999999,"body":"And you can actually waste a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1701.46,"endTime":1705.1499999999999,"body":"lot of time if your, sort of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1705.21,"endTime":1707.77,"body":"sole focus is to just stay in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1705.21,"endTime":1707.77,"body":"a role and experience as much"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1707.77,"endTime":1710.85,"body":"as you can for, five years,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1707.77,"endTime":1710.85,"body":"and then you can move on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1710.92,"endTime":1713.32,"body":"But, in the interim, if it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1710.92,"endTime":1713.32,"body":"really not working for you,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1713.32,"endTime":1716.36,"body":"then that should be something"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1713.32,"endTime":1716.36,"body":"that you have to sort of look at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1716.36,"endTime":1717.86,"body":"pivoting out of, or away from."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1717.8799999999999,"endTime":1721.02,"body":"It's not the be all, end all"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1717.8799999999999,"endTime":1721.02,"body":"like to sort of stay in a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1721.02,"endTime":1723.28,"body":"job for X number of years in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1721.02,"endTime":1723.28,"body":"order for it to make sense."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1723.33,"endTime":1725.85,"body":"You can still, you're still"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1723.33,"endTime":1725.85,"body":"learning as long as you can you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1725.85,"endTime":1729.33,"body":"know, be again, like adaptable,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1725.85,"endTime":1729.33,"body":"make those tough decisions,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1729.33,"endTime":1732.52,"body":"then like that in a way is,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1729.33,"endTime":1732.52,"body":"that's what crafts the journey."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1732.82,"endTime":1735.7,"body":"More than just the recipe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1732.82,"endTime":1735.7,"body":"of go to school, get a job,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1735.99,"endTime":1739.5,"body":"go to school maybe, get a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1735.99,"endTime":1739.5,"body":"job maybe stay in that job"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1739.77,"endTime":1741.06,"body":"for, as long as you can."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1741.23,"endTime":1743.77,"body":"Some of the conventional"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1741.23,"endTime":1743.77,"body":"wisdom isn't necessarily the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1743.77,"endTime":1747.44,"body":"thing that unlocks at least"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1743.77,"endTime":1747.44,"body":"project management roles today."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1747.92,"endTime":1748.3999999999999,"body":"I agree."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1748.3999999999999,"endTime":1751.55,"body":"And one thing that I might"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1748.3999999999999,"endTime":1751.55,"body":"add here is with me, I didn't"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1751.61,"endTime":1755.86,"body":"know what my next step would"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1751.61,"endTime":1755.86,"body":"be successful for me or not."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1756.0,"endTime":1757.68,"body":"There's always that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1756.0,"endTime":1757.68,"body":"level of ambiguity."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1757.8,"endTime":1758.85,"body":"Is it going to work out?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1758.87,"endTime":1759.82,"body":"Is this the right move?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1759.85,"endTime":1761.47,"body":"Am I making the right decision?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1761.47,"endTime":1762.71,"body":"I've had all of those thoughts."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1763.085,"endTime":1766.185,"body":"And that's probably the same"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1763.085,"endTime":1766.185,"body":"thoughts that are stifling"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1766.185,"endTime":1770.915,"body":"people from considering leaving"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1766.185,"endTime":1770.915,"body":"even toxic jobs or toxic bosses."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1771.145,"endTime":1773.805,"body":"And so one thing that I want"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1771.145,"endTime":1773.805,"body":"to share there is there's"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1773.815,"endTime":1776.645,"body":"an element of you just"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1773.815,"endTime":1776.645,"body":"betting on yourself, right?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1776.925,"endTime":1779.975,"body":"Even if it doesn't work"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1776.925,"endTime":1779.975,"body":"out, are you okay with that?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1779.985,"endTime":1782.035,"body":"And do you trust yourself"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1779.985,"endTime":1782.035,"body":"to figure it out?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1782.035,"endTime":1785.245,"body":"And for me, that trust"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1782.035,"endTime":1785.245,"body":"was so big in my life."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1785.245,"endTime":1786.905,"body":"I always trusted in myself."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1786.925,"endTime":1790.865,"body":"It might be because I just had"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1786.925,"endTime":1790.865,"body":"great support system around me."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1791.155,"endTime":1794.215,"body":"So I was not afraid"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1791.155,"endTime":1794.215,"body":"for the worst outcome."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1794.225,"endTime":1797.145,"body":"And in reality, the worst"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1794.225,"endTime":1797.145,"body":"outcome is probably in our"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1797.145,"endTime":1800.795,"body":"head, not actually what"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1797.145,"endTime":1800.795,"body":"happens in real life, so."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1801.0149999999999,"endTime":1803.705,"body":"I love how it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1801.0149999999999,"endTime":1803.705,"body":"marries together that ambiguity"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1803.7749999999999,"endTime":1805.925,"body":"and like confidence, like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1803.7749999999999,"endTime":1805.925,"body":"being confident that you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1805.925,"endTime":1808.475,"body":"can enter into ambiguity"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1805.925,"endTime":1808.475,"body":"and trust in yourself that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1808.475,"endTime":1811.86,"body":"yeah, you can make it work."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1812.22,"endTime":1812.67,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1812.68,"endTime":1814.98,"body":"If you think you can,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1812.68,"endTime":1814.98,"body":"you will figure it out."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1815.03,"endTime":1817.69,"body":"If you don't think you can,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1815.03,"endTime":1817.69,"body":"you probably won't because"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1817.7,"endTime":1819.49,"body":"that's the narrative that"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1817.7,"endTime":1819.49,"body":"you're telling yourself."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1819.52,"endTime":1823.61,"body":"I think mindset just has"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1819.52,"endTime":1823.61,"body":"a huge, plays a huge part"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1823.74,"endTime":1824.86,"body":"in how things pan out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1825.3899999999999,"endTime":1825.8899999999999,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1826.1399999999999,"endTime":1827.08,"body":"That PM mindset."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1829.08,"endTime":1829.52,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1829.56,"endTime":1831.59,"body":"Jean, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1829.56,"endTime":1831.59,"body":"hanging out with us today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1831.59,"endTime":1832.86,"body":"This has been a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1833.1299999999999,"endTime":1836.12,"body":"Before we say goodbye, how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1833.1299999999999,"endTime":1836.12,"body":"can folks learn more about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1836.12,"endTime":1838.12,"body":"you and do you have any"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1836.12,"endTime":1838.12,"body":"interesting projects on the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1838.12,"endTime":1839.03,"body":"go that you wanted to share?"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1839.61,"endTime":1841.17,"body":"I love this question."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1841.37,"endTime":1845.56,"body":"So I'm very active on LinkedIn,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1841.37,"endTime":1845.56,"body":"so please feel free to follow,"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1845.56,"endTime":1848.37,"body":"connect with me, slide into"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1845.56,"endTime":1848.37,"body":"my DMs, y'all are welcome."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1848.72,"endTime":1853.1399999999999,"body":"And recently I launched a brand"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1848.72,"endTime":1853.1399999999999,"body":"new LinkedIn Learning course."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1853.61,"endTime":1856.82,"body":"It's for anybody who"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1853.61,"endTime":1856.82,"body":"manages a project."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1856.83,"endTime":1858.37,"body":"You don't need"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1856.83,"endTime":1858.37,"body":"the special title."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1858.69,"endTime":1861.95,"body":"And this one really harps"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1858.69,"endTime":1861.95,"body":"on how you can become an"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1861.95,"endTime":1865.21,"body":"effective project leader by"},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1861.95,"endTime":1865.21,"body":"indexing on your soft skills."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1865.22,"endTime":1866.69,"body":"So it's about leading influence."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1867.0,"endTime":1867.28,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1867.28,"endTime":1867.72,"body":"Amazing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1867.75,"endTime":1868.8899999999999,"body":"I will grab the link from you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1868.8899999999999,"endTime":1870.04,"body":"I'll put it in the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1868.8899999999999,"endTime":1870.04,"body":"show notes as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1870.08,"endTime":1870.99,"body":"I might check it out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1871.03,"endTime":1871.92,"body":"I love that notion."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1871.93,"endTime":1874.03,"body":"That's a whole different"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1871.93,"endTime":1874.03,"body":"episode, like on itself."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1874.71,"endTime":1877.77,"body":"So I may hit you up and have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1874.71,"endTime":1877.77,"body":"you back, but that is exciting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1877.77,"endTime":1880.3799999999999,"body":"And yes, I'll add a link"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1877.77,"endTime":1880.3799999999999,"body":"to your LinkedIn as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1880.61,"endTime":1882.12,"body":"And we'll have some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1880.61,"endTime":1882.12,"body":"folks slide into your DMs"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1882.3799999999999,"endTime":1883.1499999999999,"body":"asking about your pivots."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1886.28,"endTime":1886.67,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1886.67,"endTime":1887.43,"body":"This was fun."},{"speaker":"Jean Kang","startTime":1887.44,"endTime":1888.42,"body":"Thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1888.61,"endTime":1889.36,"body":"Thanks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1888.61,"endTime":1889.36,"body":"for being here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1890.31,"endTime":1891.41,"body":"All right folks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1890.31,"endTime":1891.41,"body":"there you have it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1891.62,"endTime":1893.93,"body":"As always, if you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1891.62,"endTime":1893.93,"body":"join the conversation with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1893.93,"endTime":1896.3999999999999,"body":"over a thousand like minded"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1893.93,"endTime":1896.3999999999999,"body":"project management champions,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1896.68,"endTime":1897.74,"body":"come and join our collective!"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1897.96,"endTime":1901.74,"body":"Head on over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1897.96,"endTime":1901.74,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com/membership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1901.81,"endTime":1902.47,"body":"to learn more."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1902.81,"endTime":1904.91,"body":"And if you like what you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1902.81,"endTime":1904.91,"body":"heard today, please subscribe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1904.94,"endTime":1908.53,"body":"and stay in touch on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1904.94,"endTime":1908.53,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1908.55,"endTime":1910.58,"body":"Until next time,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1908.55,"endTime":1910.58,"body":"thanks for listening."}]}