{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.3,"endTime":28.62,"body":"Hey folks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.3,"endTime":28.62,"body":"thanks for tuning in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.68,"endTime":31.200000000000003,"body":"My name is Galen Low with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.68,"endTime":31.200000000000003,"body":"The Digital Project Manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.560000000000002,"endTime":34.2,"body":"We are a community of digital"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.560000000000002,"endTime":34.2,"body":"professionals on a mission"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":34.2,"endTime":36.419,"body":"to help each other get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":34.2,"endTime":36.419,"body":"skilled, get confident, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":36.419,"endTime":39.21,"body":"get connected so that we can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":36.419,"endTime":39.21,"body":"amplify the value of project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":39.21,"endTime":40.769999999999996,"body":"management in a digital world."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":41.31,"endTime":43.59,"body":"If you want to hear more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":41.31,"endTime":43.59,"body":"about that, head on over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":43.760000000000005,"endTime":47.33,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com/membership."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":47.61,"endTime":52.115,"body":"Alright, today we are taking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":47.61,"endTime":52.115,"body":"a journey to reimagine Agile"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":52.364000000000004,"endTime":55.915,"body":"and explore how it can be used"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":52.364000000000004,"endTime":55.915,"body":"in the future—as well as what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":55.965,"endTime":59.225,"body":"alterations we'd need to make"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":55.965,"endTime":59.225,"body":"to have it continue to be a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":59.225,"endTime":62.434000000000005,"body":"good fit for the ways that teams"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":59.225,"endTime":62.434000000000005,"body":"are going to be working five,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":62.434000000000005,"endTime":64.094,"body":"ten, fifteen years from now."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":64.515,"endTime":67.795,"body":"Joining me today is none other"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":64.515,"endTime":67.795,"body":"than Jim Highsmith — THE Jim"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":67.804,"endTime":70.994,"body":"Highsmith — renowned Agile"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":67.804,"endTime":70.994,"body":"pioneer, co-author of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":71.00399999999999,"endTime":74.205,"body":"Agile Manifesto, founding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":71.00399999999999,"endTime":74.205,"body":"member of the Agile Alliance,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":74.53399999999999,"endTime":76.95400000000001,"body":"multifaceted technology"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":74.53399999999999,"endTime":76.95400000000001,"body":"project professional with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":76.95400000000001,"endTime":78.224,"body":"over 60 years of experience..."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":78.224,"endTime":80.73400000000001,"body":"I could go on, but I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":78.224,"endTime":80.73400000000001,"body":"the accolades would probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":80.73400000000001,"endTime":82.124,"body":"feel like the entire episode."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":82.144,"endTime":84.214,"body":"So Jim, thanks so much"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":82.144,"endTime":84.214,"body":"for joining me today!"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":84.214,"endTime":84.744,"body":"It's an honor."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":84.955,"endTime":85.574,"body":"Thanks Galen."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":85.574,"endTime":86.515,"body":"I'm looking forward to it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":86.795,"endTime":87.744,"body":"We've been jamming."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":87.765,"endTime":89.194,"body":"I've loved our conversations."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":89.194,"endTime":91.485,"body":"We've been talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":89.194,"endTime":91.485,"body":"the future of Agile."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":91.485,"endTime":94.324,"body":"We've been talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":91.485,"endTime":94.324,"body":"about reimagining Agile."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":94.645,"endTime":97.294,"body":"But I thought maybe I'd"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":94.645,"endTime":97.294,"body":"just dive into a juicy"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":97.295,"endTime":98.475,"body":"thing while I've got you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":98.894,"endTime":101.884,"body":"You are a co-author of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":98.894,"endTime":101.884,"body":"the Agile Manifesto."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":102.294,"endTime":105.005,"body":"And you've been an inaugural"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":102.294,"endTime":105.005,"body":"member of many of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":105.005,"endTime":107.255,"body":"important groups underpinning"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":105.005,"endTime":107.255,"body":"what Agile is today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":107.565,"endTime":110.425,"body":"In other words, you've had one"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":107.565,"endTime":110.425,"body":"of the best seats in the house"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":110.554,"endTime":113.345,"body":"to witness the evolution of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":110.554,"endTime":113.345,"body":"Agile from the very beginning."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":113.654,"endTime":116.634,"body":"In what ways have you seen the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":113.654,"endTime":116.634,"body":"tone change on conversations"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":116.634,"endTime":119.455,"body":"about Agile today versus"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":116.634,"endTime":119.455,"body":"when it was a new idea?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":119.81400000000001,"endTime":121.664,"body":"Is it still as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":119.81400000000001,"endTime":121.664,"body":"exciting to talk about?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":122.024,"endTime":123.654,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":122.024,"endTime":123.654,"body":"it's as exciting to me."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":123.654,"endTime":126.104,"body":"I don't know if it's as"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":123.654,"endTime":126.104,"body":"exciting to everybody."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":126.414,"endTime":129.175,"body":"One of the things you have to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":126.414,"endTime":129.175,"body":"realize is that Agile Manifesto"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":129.175,"endTime":130.465,"body":"was born in a different era."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":130.62,"endTime":134.04000000000002,"body":"I mean, it was 23 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":130.62,"endTime":134.04000000000002,"body":"there was not a lot of social"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":134.04000000000002,"endTime":135.17000000000002,"body":"media in that period of time."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":135.41,"endTime":137.99,"body":"So the way we got the word out"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":135.41,"endTime":137.99,"body":"was through magazine articles"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":138.22,"endTime":141.789,"body":"and speaking at conferences"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":138.22,"endTime":141.789,"body":"and Ward Cunningham's wiki."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":141.87,"endTime":142.81,"body":"And that was about it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":143.149,"endTime":145.28,"body":"We got a lot of arrows"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":143.149,"endTime":145.28,"body":"shone at us in the early"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":145.28,"endTime":149.039,"body":"years because it really was"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":145.28,"endTime":149.039,"body":"a change from the past, a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":149.36,"endTime":150.62,"body":"pretty significant change."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":151.03,"endTime":153.26,"body":"Except in some places,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":151.03,"endTime":153.26,"body":"like for example, you go to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":153.26,"endTime":155.43,"body":"Silicon Valley and you say,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":153.26,"endTime":155.43,"body":"here's some actual stuff."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":155.829,"endTime":157.03,"body":"And they'd say, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":155.829,"endTime":157.03,"body":"we've been doing that."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":157.03,"endTime":158.45,"body":"We just needed a name for it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":158.98,"endTime":162.97,"body":"And so I was out at one company"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":158.98,"endTime":162.97,"body":"one time in Silicon Valley, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":162.97,"endTime":164.0,"body":"they said they were doing Agile."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":164.31,"endTime":165.75,"body":"And I said, well, how"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":164.31,"endTime":165.75,"body":"long are your iterations?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":165.75,"endTime":166.93,"body":"They said, oh, three"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":165.75,"endTime":166.93,"body":"or four months."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":168.46,"endTime":170.969,"body":"So even there, there was"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":168.46,"endTime":170.969,"body":"some difference of opinion."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":171.28,"endTime":174.65,"body":"The other thing too, is that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":171.28,"endTime":174.65,"body":"there's a technology adoption"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":174.67,"endTime":177.519,"body":"life cycle that's been"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":174.67,"endTime":177.519,"body":"published for a long time."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":177.919,"endTime":180.6,"body":"Innovative, early majority,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":177.919,"endTime":180.6,"body":"late majority, and and in"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":180.64000000000001,"endTime":183.11,"body":"the beginning, it was a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":180.64000000000001,"endTime":183.11,"body":"few innovative people, both"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":183.13,"endTime":185.58,"body":"companies and individuals"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":183.13,"endTime":185.58,"body":"who really got into Agile."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":186.0,"endTime":188.82,"body":"And now we have people in all"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":186.0,"endTime":188.82,"body":"of those different stages."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":189.16,"endTime":190.91,"body":"We have early majority,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":189.16,"endTime":190.91,"body":"late majority."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":190.91,"endTime":192.31,"body":"Some people just get started."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":192.53,"endTime":193.93,"body":"Some people that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":192.53,"endTime":193.93,"body":"don't want to start."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":194.23,"endTime":196.55,"body":"And so you get different"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":194.23,"endTime":196.55,"body":"kinds of feedback"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":196.56,"endTime":197.45,"body":"from each one of them."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":197.82,"endTime":200.72,"body":"And, in the innovative"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":197.82,"endTime":200.72,"body":"area, people just go"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":200.72,"endTime":201.87,"body":"with what's a good idea."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":202.17,"endTime":204.36,"body":"By the time you get to the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":202.17,"endTime":204.36,"body":"late majority, they want proof."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":204.47,"endTime":206.47,"body":"And not only do they want"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":204.47,"endTime":206.47,"body":"proof in their industry"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":206.62,"endTime":207.75,"body":"and their kinds of project."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":208.03,"endTime":209.95,"body":"And they're liable to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":208.03,"endTime":209.95,"body":"say, no, we can't do"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":209.95,"endTime":211.7,"body":"that because of X, Y, Z."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":212.0,"endTime":214.24,"body":"So you're always going"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":212.0,"endTime":214.24,"body":"to get mixed responses to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":214.25,"endTime":215.28,"body":"these kinds of questions."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":215.61,"endTime":217.9,"body":"One of the things I've noticed,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":215.61,"endTime":217.9,"body":"and I've done everything from"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":217.9,"endTime":220.39000000000001,"body":"no methodology to structured"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":217.9,"endTime":220.39000000000001,"body":"methodologies to agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":220.67,"endTime":223.97,"body":"methodologies is that every"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":220.67,"endTime":223.97,"body":"one of them works and every"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":223.97,"endTime":224.94,"body":"one of them doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":225.55,"endTime":228.11,"body":"It's more about the people"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":225.55,"endTime":228.11,"body":"than it is the methodology."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":228.37,"endTime":230.02,"body":"And really it's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":228.37,"endTime":230.02,"body":"about the mindset."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":230.24,"endTime":232.82,"body":"And I've been using the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":230.24,"endTime":232.82,"body":"words 'accomplishments and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":232.82,"endTime":235.21,"body":"disappointments' rather"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":232.82,"endTime":235.21,"body":"than 'success and failure'."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":235.44,"endTime":237.86,"body":"Because I think every"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":235.44,"endTime":237.86,"body":"project, whether it's Agile,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":237.86,"endTime":240.275,"body":"Waterfall, no matter what,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":237.86,"endTime":240.275,"body":"has some accomplishments."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":240.665,"endTime":242.245,"body":"People say, waterfall"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":240.665,"endTime":242.245,"body":"doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":242.305,"endTime":245.045,"body":"Well, during the 1980s,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":242.305,"endTime":245.045,"body":"I did plenty of projects"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":245.155,"endTime":247.245,"body":"using Waterfall and it"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":245.155,"endTime":247.245,"body":"was very successful."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":247.245,"endTime":248.405,"body":"We accomplished a lot."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":248.725,"endTime":250.415,"body":"There were also some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":248.725,"endTime":250.415,"body":"disappointments and some of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":250.415,"endTime":253.195,"body":"the disappointments caught up"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":250.415,"endTime":253.195,"body":"with us in the mid nineties."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":253.685,"endTime":256.71500000000003,"body":"I wrote a definition of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":253.685,"endTime":256.71500000000003,"body":"agility in 2002 book."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":257.105,"endTime":259.905,"body":"Agility is the ability to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":257.105,"endTime":259.905,"body":"both create and respond to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":259.905,"endTime":262.865,"body":"change in order to profit in a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":259.905,"endTime":262.865,"body":"turbulent business environment."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":263.46000000000004,"endTime":265.37,"body":"And I don't know that I"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":263.46000000000004,"endTime":265.37,"body":"changed that much today."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":265.47,"endTime":266.40999999999997,"body":"It's agility."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":266.63,"endTime":269.19,"body":"And I think one of the things"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":266.63,"endTime":269.19,"body":"that happens is that people"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":269.19,"endTime":273.09000000000003,"body":"get mixed up about methods,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":269.19,"endTime":273.09000000000003,"body":"methodology, and mindset."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":273.31,"endTime":276.39,"body":"And those are three distinct"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":273.31,"endTime":276.39,"body":"things that we could go into a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":276.39,"endTime":277.66999999999996,"body":"little bit later if we want to."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":277.91999999999996,"endTime":281.97,"body":"But in essence, the tone has"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":277.91999999999996,"endTime":281.97,"body":"changed in looking at agile."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":281.97,"endTime":284.28999999999996,"body":"And one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":281.97,"endTime":284.28999999999996,"body":"I'm trying to do with this"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":284.28999999999996,"endTime":288.05999999999995,"body":"reimagined agile initiative"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":284.28999999999996,"endTime":288.05999999999995,"body":"is to rechange the tone back"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":288.05999999999995,"endTime":289.15,"body":"to a more positive tone."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":289.42999999999995,"endTime":292.32000000000005,"body":"I really like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":289.42999999999995,"endTime":292.32000000000005,"body":"that angle of it's not just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":292.57000000000005,"endTime":294.73,"body":"the early adopting crowd."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":294.76,"endTime":299.11,"body":"Now you have this spectrum"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":294.76,"endTime":299.11,"body":"of people who are lagging and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":299.11,"endTime":302.26,"body":"who are sort of late to adopt"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":299.11,"endTime":302.26,"body":"and the proof that they need."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":302.27,"endTime":305.15999999999997,"body":"And the burden of proof"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":302.27,"endTime":305.15999999999997,"body":"is different now than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":305.17999999999995,"endTime":306.26,"body":"when it was before."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":306.505,"endTime":308.58500000000004,"body":"And I love what you're saying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":306.505,"endTime":308.58500000000004,"body":"about the fact that the world"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":308.755,"endTime":312.67499999999995,"body":"keeps turning, agility is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":308.755,"endTime":312.67499999999995,"body":"seen as valuable these days,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":313.03499999999997,"endTime":316.265,"body":"but it doesn't mean that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":313.03499999999997,"endTime":316.265,"body":"Waterfall doesn't work anymore."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":316.485,"endTime":319.56500000000005,"body":"It just might have a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":316.485,"endTime":319.56500000000005,"body":"different sort of purpose"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":319.625,"endTime":323.05499999999995,"body":"or focus, or you can expect"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":319.625,"endTime":323.05499999999995,"body":"different disappointments"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":323.06399999999996,"endTime":325.28499999999997,"body":"and accomplishments from"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":323.06399999999996,"endTime":325.28499999999997,"body":"them, but it doesn't mean"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":325.28499999999997,"endTime":326.53499999999997,"body":"that they are out of date."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":326.975,"endTime":329.07500000000005,"body":"One of the things"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":326.975,"endTime":329.07500000000005,"body":"that I think has gotten lost"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":329.07500000000005,"endTime":332.18499999999995,"body":"sometimes is the fact that you"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":329.07500000000005,"endTime":332.18499999999995,"body":"need to look at projects in"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":332.18499999999995,"endTime":335.93499999999995,"body":"the context of those projects,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":332.18499999999995,"endTime":335.93499999999995,"body":"particularly around uncertainty."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":336.22,"endTime":338.76,"body":"So for example, a project"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":336.22,"endTime":338.76,"body":"like the Webb Telescope"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":338.78,"endTime":342.97,"body":"project is very different from"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":338.78,"endTime":342.97,"body":"doing an app on your iPhone"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":342.97,"endTime":344.53999999999996,"body":"in terms of the use case."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":344.62,"endTime":347.22,"body":"And you have to understand"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":344.62,"endTime":347.22,"body":"that when you go to manage"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":347.22,"endTime":348.54999999999995,"body":"a project in particular."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":348.83000000000004,"endTime":351.05999999999995,"body":"I love that you use"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":348.83000000000004,"endTime":351.05999999999995,"body":"that example, cause we often go"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":351.09000000000003,"endTime":355.26,"body":"to these sort of aeronautical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":351.09000000000003,"endTime":355.26,"body":"space examples, because in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":355.26,"endTime":357.83000000000004,"body":"a world of software and you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":355.26,"endTime":357.83000000000004,"body":"have, continuous integration,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":357.84000000000003,"endTime":359.96000000000004,"body":"you're deploying all the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":357.84000000000003,"endTime":359.96000000000004,"body":"time, it's relatively easy."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":359.96000000000004,"endTime":361.84000000000003,"body":"I'm not gonna say it's easy,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":359.96000000000004,"endTime":361.84000000000003,"body":"but it's certainly a lot"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":361.86,"endTime":365.72,"body":"easier than shooting a shuttle"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":361.86,"endTime":365.72,"body":"up to the space station"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":365.95000000000005,"endTime":368.44000000000005,"body":"for a resupply mission or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":365.95000000000005,"endTime":368.44000000000005,"body":"to fix a thing, a piece of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":368.58000000000004,"endTime":370.98,"body":"equipment that wasn't working"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":368.58000000000004,"endTime":370.98,"body":"the way you had expected."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":371.21000000000004,"endTime":372.78,"body":"And you need to plan"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":371.21000000000004,"endTime":372.78,"body":"differently and you need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":372.78,"endTime":374.99,"body":"budget differently and you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":372.78,"endTime":374.99,"body":"need to just think about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":374.99,"endTime":376.1,"body":"that project differently."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":376.40999999999997,"endTime":376.65999999999997,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":376.65999999999997,"endTime":379.385,"body":"It's interesting you say"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":376.65999999999997,"endTime":379.385,"body":"aerospace because one of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":379.385,"endTime":381.995,"body":"the things I had years"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":379.385,"endTime":381.995,"body":"ago in the early 2000s, I"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":381.995,"endTime":384.275,"body":"had a discussion with the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":381.995,"endTime":384.275,"body":"secretary of the air force."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":384.67499999999995,"endTime":387.68499999999995,"body":"And she had read my first"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":384.67499999999995,"endTime":387.68499999999995,"body":"book and she was saying, in"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":387.70500000000004,"endTime":390.70500000000004,"body":"building aerospace project,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":387.70500000000004,"endTime":390.70500000000004,"body":"maybe we need to have"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":390.71500000000003,"endTime":393.155,"body":"iterations and maybe they"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":390.71500000000003,"endTime":393.155,"body":"cannot be a year or two years."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":393.365,"endTime":395.515,"body":"So she used the idea"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":393.365,"endTime":395.515,"body":"of adaptive development"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":395.57500000000005,"endTime":396.725,"body":"in one of her speeches."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":397.05499999999995,"endTime":399.92499999999995,"body":"And so it's not that all"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":397.05499999999995,"endTime":399.92499999999995,"body":"aerospace projects have to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":399.92499999999995,"endTime":403.21500000000003,"body":"be Waterfall, but they can be"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":399.92499999999995,"endTime":403.21500000000003,"body":"somewhat adaptive and Agile."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":403.46500000000003,"endTime":405.365,"body":"And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":403.46500000000003,"endTime":405.365,"body":"an important piece to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":405.365,"endTime":406.69500000000005,"body":"reimagine ourselves are."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":407.11,"endTime":409.35,"body":"Earlier I scoffed"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":407.11,"endTime":409.35,"body":"at this sort of notion of a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":409.36,"endTime":410.63,"body":"three to four month sprint."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":411.06500000000005,"endTime":413.06500000000005,"body":"But sometimes in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":411.06500000000005,"endTime":413.06500000000005,"body":"the grand scheme of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":413.06500000000005,"endTime":414.125,"body":"things, that is nimble."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":414.365,"endTime":415.08500000000004,"body":"That is fast."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":415.145,"endTime":418.07500000000005,"body":"That is like a very quick"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":415.145,"endTime":418.07500000000005,"body":"rotation to get results,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":418.07500000000005,"endTime":420.92499999999995,"body":"learn from it, and make"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":418.07500000000005,"endTime":420.92499999999995,"body":"sure you don't go 15 years"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":420.92499999999995,"endTime":421.82500000000005,"body":"building the wrong thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":422.03499999999997,"endTime":424.54499999999996,"body":"It's still the right mindset,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":422.03499999999997,"endTime":424.54499999999996,"body":"even if, I think, just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":424.54499999999996,"endTime":426.405,"body":"coming back to what you said"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":424.54499999999996,"endTime":426.405,"body":"earlier, and if I'm picking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":426.405,"endTime":428.32500000000005,"body":"up what you're putting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":426.405,"endTime":428.32500000000005,"body":"down, there's the methods,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":428.32500000000005,"endTime":430.235,"body":"there's the methodologies,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":428.32500000000005,"endTime":430.235,"body":"and the mindsets, and we get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":430.235,"endTime":431.345,"body":"them mixed up all the time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":431.645,"endTime":434.08500000000004,"body":"Sometimes we want some of these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":431.645,"endTime":434.08500000000004,"body":"mindsets to have all of these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":434.095,"endTime":436.80499999999995,"body":"like codified rules and things,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":434.095,"endTime":436.80499999999995,"body":"rules that you don't break."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":436.93499999999995,"endTime":438.895,"body":"But really, it's actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":436.93499999999995,"endTime":438.895,"body":"just a way of thinking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":438.895,"endTime":441.81500000000005,"body":"it to avoid some of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":438.895,"endTime":441.81500000000005,"body":"other disappointments that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":441.81500000000005,"endTime":443.865,"body":"would have come along with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":441.81500000000005,"endTime":443.865,"body":"doing things a different way."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":444.275,"endTime":445.475,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":444.275,"endTime":445.475,"body":"you can take any of the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":445.475,"endTime":447.05499999999995,"body":"practices, say sprint planning."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":447.595,"endTime":449.865,"body":"And you can burden them"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":447.595,"endTime":449.865,"body":"with documentation in"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":449.865,"endTime":453.19500000000005,"body":"meetings, and they can"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":449.865,"endTime":453.19500000000005,"body":"become very prescriptive"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":453.57500000000005,"endTime":454.745,"body":"or they could be adaptive."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":454.745,"endTime":457.05499999999995,"body":"So you can take the same"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":454.745,"endTime":457.05499999999995,"body":"practice and depending on"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":457.05499999999995,"endTime":460.115,"body":"how you approach it, it's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":457.05499999999995,"endTime":460.115,"body":"gonna be more prescriptive"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":460.12,"endTime":460.775,"body":"or more adaptive."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":461.04499999999996,"endTime":463.655,"body":"All of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":461.04499999999996,"endTime":463.655,"body":"benefits that people herald"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":463.655,"endTime":466.655,"body":"about a thing, anything,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":463.655,"endTime":466.655,"body":"not just Agile, could also"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":466.92499999999995,"endTime":467.79499999999996,"body":"just be their downfall."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":467.79499999999996,"endTime":469.865,"body":"It could become untrue"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":467.79499999999996,"endTime":469.865,"body":"in the wrong hands."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":470.135,"endTime":471.33500000000004,"body":"And the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":470.135,"endTime":471.33500000000004,"body":"other thing too is that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":471.605,"endTime":474.155,"body":"with the arrival of social"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":471.605,"endTime":474.155,"body":"media, the 10% have a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":474.155,"endTime":475.54499999999996,"body":"louder voice than the 90%."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":475.96500000000003,"endTime":477.91999999999996,"body":"And 10% like to be negative."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":478.20000000000005,"endTime":481.99,"body":"I don't know if you remember"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":478.20000000000005,"endTime":481.99,"body":"the Spiro Agnew, but he was the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":481.99,"endTime":483.79999999999995,"body":"vice president under Dick Nixon."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":484.33000000000004,"endTime":487.22,"body":"He was famous for a phrase, \"the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":484.33000000000004,"endTime":487.22,"body":"nattering nabobs of negativity\"."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":488.30999999999995,"endTime":490.30999999999995,"body":"And I thought about that when"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":488.30999999999995,"endTime":490.30999999999995,"body":"I was getting ready for this."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":490.30999999999995,"endTime":492.65999999999997,"body":"I said, that's the problem"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":490.30999999999995,"endTime":492.65999999999997,"body":"with, know, 10% of the people"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":492.985,"endTime":496.235,"body":"on some of these social medians"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":492.985,"endTime":496.235,"body":"is there a nabobs of negativity."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":496.42499999999995,"endTime":498.255,"body":"It's funny and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":496.42499999999995,"endTime":498.255,"body":"I'm glad you mentioned social"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":498.255,"endTime":502.56399999999996,"body":"media because a lot of people's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":498.255,"endTime":502.56399999999996,"body":"introduction to Agile these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":502.56500000000005,"endTime":507.55499999999995,"body":"days is through controversy,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":502.56500000000005,"endTime":507.55499999999995,"body":"is through somebody on Reddit"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":507.55499999999995,"endTime":510.975,"body":"or somebody on social media,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":507.55499999999995,"endTime":510.975,"body":"usually from a negative lens."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":511.155,"endTime":514.425,"body":"One way or the other, why are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":511.155,"endTime":514.425,"body":"people still using Waterfall or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":514.425,"endTime":515.555,"body":"what's the big deal about Agile?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":515.555,"endTime":516.295,"body":"It never works."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":516.535,"endTime":518.845,"body":"And they're coming at it from"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":516.535,"endTime":518.845,"body":"these like really extreme"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":518.855,"endTime":520.585,"body":"sort of polar ends of things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":520.935,"endTime":523.565,"body":"And to your point now,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":520.935,"endTime":523.565,"body":"like they are loud, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":523.615,"endTime":525.615,"body":"It's not like just the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":523.615,"endTime":525.615,"body":"handful of people who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":525.615,"endTime":529.425,"body":"listened to that radio program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":525.615,"endTime":529.425,"body":"or saw that billboard or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":529.425,"endTime":530.934,"body":"read that academic paper."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":530.935,"endTime":533.705,"body":"It's like everyone practically,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":530.935,"endTime":533.705,"body":"it shows up in their feed."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":533.905,"endTime":535.4639999999999,"body":"They're sort of getting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":533.905,"endTime":535.4639999999999,"body":"these sort of impressions"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":535.775,"endTime":536.385,"body":"into their head."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":536.395,"endTime":539.1949999999999,"body":"But coming back to your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":536.395,"endTime":539.1949999999999,"body":"example, like in politics."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":539.605,"endTime":543.755,"body":"This is a project methodology"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":539.605,"endTime":543.755,"body":"you wouldn't think it's so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":543.985,"endTime":547.9549999999999,"body":"controversial and contentious,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":543.985,"endTime":547.9549999999999,"body":"but it is, and we've been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":547.9649999999999,"endTime":551.435,"body":"arguing about it, it appears"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":547.9649999999999,"endTime":551.435,"body":"to be 20 plus years of us"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":551.4649999999999,"endTime":556.505,"body":"arguing passionately about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":551.4649999999999,"endTime":556.505,"body":"whether Agile is good or not."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":556.9499999999999,"endTime":558.7099999999999,"body":"And I think we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":556.9499999999999,"endTime":558.7099999999999,"body":"still arguing about it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":558.74,"endTime":560.56,"body":"I'm like, why are we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":558.74,"endTime":560.56,"body":"still arguing about it?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":560.56,"endTime":562.5,"body":"And like, why is it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":560.56,"endTime":562.5,"body":"so contentious and why"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":562.51,"endTime":565.27,"body":"haven't we quite gotten"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":562.51,"endTime":565.27,"body":"over it in 20 odd years?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":565.549,"endTime":565.8589999999999,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":565.89,"endTime":570.659,"body":"And some people, for example,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":565.89,"endTime":570.659,"body":"I saw a post on LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":571.04,"endTime":573.91,"body":"earlier in the spring, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":571.04,"endTime":573.91,"body":"it was talking about the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":573.9599999999999,"endTime":575.79,"body":"problems with Agile approaches."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":576.16,"endTime":577.52,"body":"And it talked about the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":576.16,"endTime":577.52,"body":"fact that there was no"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":577.52,"endTime":579.89,"body":"documentation and there were"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":577.52,"endTime":579.89,"body":"several others like that."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":579.89,"endTime":582.0749999999999,"body":"And I said, we answered"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":579.89,"endTime":582.0749999999999,"body":"those questions 20 years"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":582.0749999999999,"endTime":582.925,"body":"ago, where you've been?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":584.295,"endTime":586.5649999999999,"body":"And so one of the guys just"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":584.295,"endTime":586.5649999999999,"body":"happened about a month ago,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":586.5649999999999,"endTime":588.285,"body":"I was looking through my"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":586.5649999999999,"endTime":588.285,"body":"project management book."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":588.305,"endTime":591.304,"body":"It was published in 2009,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":588.305,"endTime":591.304,"body":"Agile Project Management."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":591.305,"endTime":593.9639999999999,"body":"And I happened to notice a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":591.305,"endTime":593.9639999999999,"body":"chart in there that I had"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":593.9839999999999,"endTime":595.595,"body":"forgotten about documentation."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":596.0749999999999,"endTime":598.595,"body":"And I thought, well, okay,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":596.0749999999999,"endTime":598.595,"body":"this is something that I"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":598.704,"endTime":601.154,"body":"looked at a more balanced"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":598.704,"endTime":601.154,"body":"approach to documentation"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":601.154,"endTime":602.1039999999999,"body":"and gave some guidelines."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":602.105,"endTime":604.995,"body":"And so I posted it on the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":602.105,"endTime":604.995,"body":"internet, just like it flows."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":604.995,"endTime":605.765,"body":"I didn't modify it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":605.765,"endTime":606.845,"body":"I didn't change it at all."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":607.255,"endTime":612.5799999999999,"body":"It is at 66,000 impressions"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":607.255,"endTime":612.5799999999999,"body":"and 96 reposts and something"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":612.5799999999999,"endTime":614.68,"body":"that I thought that was"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":612.5799999999999,"endTime":614.68,"body":"not that interesting."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":614.9499999999999,"endTime":617.55,"body":"Documentation guidelines,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":614.9499999999999,"endTime":617.55,"body":"this shows you that there"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":617.55,"endTime":619.509,"body":"are a lot of people out"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":617.55,"endTime":619.509,"body":"there who are looking for"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":619.72,"endTime":622.99,"body":"good balanced information"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":619.72,"endTime":622.99,"body":"away from the extremes."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":623.25,"endTime":626.809,"body":"I'll say that, but I'll also"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":623.25,"endTime":626.809,"body":"say, we needed the extremes back"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":626.809,"endTime":629.429,"body":"in the day because we needed"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":626.809,"endTime":629.429,"body":"to look at the boundaries."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":629.519,"endTime":633.505,"body":"So for example, documentation,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":629.519,"endTime":633.505,"body":"maybe in the day, somebody said,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":633.625,"endTime":634.895,"body":"let's try no documentation."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":635.125,"endTime":638.1949999999999,"body":"Nobody really means that what"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":635.125,"endTime":638.1949999999999,"body":"we were talking about was"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":638.385,"endTime":641.645,"body":"documentation had replaced"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":638.385,"endTime":641.645,"body":"communication and collaboration."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":642.025,"endTime":644.355,"body":"What was a fallout from"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":642.025,"endTime":644.355,"body":"the Waterfall was you"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":644.355,"endTime":647.124,"body":"got organizations that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":644.355,"endTime":647.124,"body":"followed the Waterfall."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":647.134,"endTime":649.615,"body":"So you had a requirements"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":647.134,"endTime":649.615,"body":"group, you had a design group,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":649.655,"endTime":651.3249999999999,"body":"you had a programming group,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":649.655,"endTime":651.3249999999999,"body":"you had a testing group."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":651.635,"endTime":655.765,"body":"And the communication between"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":651.635,"endTime":655.765,"body":"them was all documentation."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":656.115,"endTime":657.7049999999999,"body":"And so there wasn't"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":656.115,"endTime":657.7049999999999,"body":"this collaboration."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":657.7049999999999,"endTime":660.255,"body":"There wasn't this interactive"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":657.7049999999999,"endTime":660.255,"body":"communication back then."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":660.485,"endTime":662.005,"body":"And that's what we were"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":660.485,"endTime":662.005,"body":"trying to get away from"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":662.015,"endTime":666.12,"body":"is the essence of, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":662.015,"endTime":666.12,"body":"wanted the documentation to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":666.13,"endTime":669.14,"body":"supplement your collaboration,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":666.13,"endTime":669.14,"body":"not the other way around."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":669.43,"endTime":671.9,"body":"It's funny"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":669.43,"endTime":671.9,"body":"because we talk in language"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":671.9,"endTime":676.449,"body":"like, the Agile revolution,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":671.9,"endTime":676.449,"body":"big change, upheaval."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":676.629,"endTime":678.78,"body":"You're right, I mean, lots of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":676.629,"endTime":678.78,"body":"time has passed and we don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":678.78,"endTime":682.43,"body":"quite sort of appreciate the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":678.78,"endTime":682.43,"body":"push that was needed then."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":682.43,"endTime":684.68,"body":"When you think about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":682.43,"endTime":684.68,"body":"revolutions, when you think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":684.6899999999999,"endTime":687.0,"body":"about sort of arguing from"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":684.6899999999999,"endTime":687.0,"body":"an extreme to make change"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":687.0,"endTime":690.1,"body":"happen, I think a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":687.0,"endTime":690.1,"body":"took it maybe too literally."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":690.27,"endTime":693.42,"body":"And then I think people keep"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":690.27,"endTime":693.42,"body":"continuing to misinterpret"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":693.42,"endTime":695.48,"body":"it conveniently for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":693.42,"endTime":695.48,"body":"themselves, because from"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":695.48,"endTime":698.14,"body":"what I've seen, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":695.48,"endTime":698.14,"body":"sound like no documentation."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":698.14,"endTime":700.6999999999999,"body":"It's just like it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":698.14,"endTime":700.6999999999999,"body":"communication over documentation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":700.709,"endTime":701.559,"body":"in terms of its principle."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":701.68,"endTime":702.86,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":701.68,"endTime":702.86,"body":"about interpretation."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":703.129,"endTime":704.699,"body":"It's sort of like"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":703.129,"endTime":704.699,"body":"the US constitution."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":705.28,"endTime":708.06,"body":"There are justices who are"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":705.28,"endTime":708.06,"body":"strict interpretationists."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":708.27,"endTime":710.4499999999999,"body":"What it says in the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":708.27,"endTime":710.4499999999999,"body":"Constitution is what it's like."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":710.4499999999999,"endTime":713.03,"body":"So if it says in the Agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":710.4499999999999,"endTime":713.03,"body":"Manifesto, if it says software,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":713.299,"endTime":714.3,"body":"they have this for software."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":714.8,"endTime":717.1899999999999,"body":"And there are others who"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":714.8,"endTime":717.1899999999999,"body":"have a looser interpretation"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":717.419,"endTime":720.39,"body":"who recognize that Agile can"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":717.419,"endTime":720.39,"body":"evolve, that the manifesto"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":720.39,"endTime":721.85,"body":"is not cast in stone."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":722.1,"endTime":723.9,"body":"It was a particular"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":722.1,"endTime":723.9,"body":"point in time."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":724.12,"endTime":727.16,"body":"And so we need to find ways"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":724.12,"endTime":727.16,"body":"to extend that into other"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":727.16,"endTime":730.24,"body":"areas and not get hung"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":727.16,"endTime":730.24,"body":"up on the exact wording."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":730.439,"endTime":731.709,"body":"It's not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":730.439,"endTime":731.709,"body":"an Agile problem."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":731.7099999999999,"endTime":732.8399999999999,"body":"It's a human problem."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":733.04,"endTime":736.459,"body":"And that is equally applicable,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":733.04,"endTime":736.459,"body":"really interpreting it to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":736.459,"endTime":739.5799999999999,"body":"the letter of the law or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":736.459,"endTime":739.5799999999999,"body":"grasping the essence enough"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":739.61,"endTime":742.01,"body":"that we can carry it forward"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":739.61,"endTime":742.01,"body":"and then everything in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":742.01,"endTime":745.045,"body":"between and is that okay,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":742.01,"endTime":745.045,"body":"which actually, that's what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":745.045,"endTime":745.975,"body":"we're going to dive into."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":746.2049999999999,"endTime":749.395,"body":"Because I think the thing that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":746.2049999999999,"endTime":749.395,"body":"folks don't always appreciate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":749.495,"endTime":751.4549999999999,"body":"is that Agile is changing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":751.725,"endTime":752.5849999999999,"body":"I think you've seen that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":752.5849999999999,"endTime":755.9449999999999,"body":"I'm just wondering what are some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":752.5849999999999,"endTime":755.9449999999999,"body":"emerging trends or practices in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":755.975,"endTime":758.865,"body":"Agile project management that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":755.975,"endTime":758.865,"body":"have caught your eye recently?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":759.044,"endTime":760.904,"body":"It's interesting"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":759.044,"endTime":760.904,"body":"that I think there's some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":760.914,"endTime":764.505,"body":"people out there who are"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":760.914,"endTime":764.505,"body":"doing the extensions to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":764.505,"endTime":765.8149999999999,"body":"the basic Agile approach."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":765.8149999999999,"endTime":770.754,"body":"So, for example, in 2004,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":765.8149999999999,"endTime":770.754,"body":"2005, as we started up the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":770.754,"endTime":773.41,"body":"Agile conferences, I was"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":770.754,"endTime":773.41,"body":"concerned because there"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":773.41,"endTime":775.77,"body":"was so much negativism"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":773.41,"endTime":775.77,"body":"in the Agile community"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":775.77,"endTime":776.9499999999999,"body":"towards project management."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":777.23,"endTime":779.1999999999999,"body":"That's why we came up with"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":777.23,"endTime":779.1999999999999,"body":"scrum masters and some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":779.1999999999999,"endTime":782.009,"body":"other designations because"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":779.1999999999999,"endTime":782.009,"body":"we don't need any more"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":782.01,"endTime":783.169,"body":"damn project managers."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":783.17,"endTime":784.2099999999999,"body":"We need scrum masters."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":784.5,"endTime":786.699,"body":"I think that's been an"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":784.5,"endTime":786.699,"body":"issue for a long time."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":786.9499999999999,"endTime":790.1899999999999,"body":"So I've found an organization"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":786.9499999999999,"endTime":790.1899999999999,"body":"in 2005 called The Agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":790.1899999999999,"endTime":791.42,"body":"Project Leadership Network."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":791.85,"endTime":795.48,"body":"Our mission was to extend"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":791.85,"endTime":795.48,"body":"project management into"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":795.49,"endTime":798.9399999999999,"body":"Agile and basically say,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":795.49,"endTime":798.9399999999999,"body":"it's not that project"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":798.9399999999999,"endTime":800.56,"body":"management is not any good."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":800.915,"endTime":802.9449999999999,"body":"It's that we need a different"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":800.915,"endTime":802.9449999999999,"body":"type of project management."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":803.005,"endTime":805.255,"body":"We need a type of project"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":803.005,"endTime":805.255,"body":"management that focused on"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":805.285,"endTime":807.9549999999999,"body":"people more than tasks and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":805.285,"endTime":807.9549999999999,"body":"focused on collaboration and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":807.9549999999999,"endTime":809.385,"body":"focused on some other things."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":809.775,"endTime":813.4449999999999,"body":"And so we started that and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":809.775,"endTime":813.4449999999999,"body":"that's actually the group that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":813.595,"endTime":818.375,"body":"some of us migrated into PMI to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":813.595,"endTime":818.375,"body":"do the Agile PMI certification."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":818.834,"endTime":821.785,"body":"I think that there always been"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":818.834,"endTime":821.785,"body":"sort of as extensions, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":821.785,"endTime":824.675,"body":"people like David Pereira,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":821.785,"endTime":824.675,"body":"he's got a new book coming out"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":824.675,"endTime":828.275,"body":"on product management and I"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":824.675,"endTime":828.275,"body":"wrote the forward for his book."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":828.625,"endTime":831.5799999999999,"body":"And one of the things I liked"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":828.625,"endTime":831.5799999999999,"body":"about it is, you read through"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":831.5799999999999,"endTime":835.41,"body":"this book and it's all about"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":831.5799999999999,"endTime":835.41,"body":"agility, but he never uses"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":835.4599999999999,"endTime":838.06,"body":"the word agile and agility,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":835.4599999999999,"endTime":838.06,"body":"maybe a couple of times in"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":838.0699999999999,"endTime":842.04,"body":"the whole book, but it's all"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":838.0699999999999,"endTime":842.04,"body":"about the concept of agility."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":842.37,"endTime":843.47,"body":"There are other"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":842.37,"endTime":843.47,"body":"people like this."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":843.48,"endTime":847.0699999999999,"body":"Chris Stone is another one"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":843.48,"endTime":847.0699999999999,"body":"who's really moved forward"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":847.365,"endTime":851.185,"body":"with his approach to software"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":847.365,"endTime":851.185,"body":"development, and doesn't always"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":851.1949999999999,"endTime":852.285,"body":"have to use the word Agile."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":852.645,"endTime":855.3149999999999,"body":"Of course, the big area"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":852.645,"endTime":855.3149999999999,"body":"that's coming up is AI."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":855.674,"endTime":858.164,"body":"I've seen some people that have"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":855.674,"endTime":858.164,"body":"been using the term Hog Bedded"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":858.165,"endTime":861.2049999999999,"body":"Agile, which I think is probably"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":858.165,"endTime":861.2049999999999,"body":"appropriate for the time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":861.4449999999999,"endTime":864.31,"body":"I'm wondering,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":861.4449999999999,"endTime":864.31,"body":"you said earlier, when you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":864.31,"endTime":867.03,"body":"were writing the manifesto"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":864.31,"endTime":867.03,"body":"and it was getting released,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":867.16,"endTime":868.78,"body":"you were getting shot at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":867.16,"endTime":868.78,"body":"with arrows, people were"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":868.78,"endTime":871.73,"body":"coming after you, people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":868.78,"endTime":871.73,"body":"were sort of angry at change."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":872.01,"endTime":874.42,"body":"And then we have this notion"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":872.01,"endTime":874.42,"body":"of extensions of Agile and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":874.47,"endTime":876.7099999999999,"body":"are some of these folks also"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":874.47,"endTime":876.7099999999999,"body":"getting shot at with arrows?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":876.999,"endTime":879.68,"body":"Are they like not using the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":876.999,"endTime":879.68,"body":"word Agile on purpose so that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":879.68,"endTime":882.02,"body":"it doesn't turn people off or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":879.68,"endTime":882.02,"body":"so that they don't get shot at?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":882.2099999999999,"endTime":884.3399999999999,"body":"There is some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":882.2099999999999,"endTime":884.3399999999999,"body":"of that, yes, because there"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":884.3399999999999,"endTime":887.5699999999999,"body":"are some people that are sort"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":884.3399999999999,"endTime":887.5699999999999,"body":"of abandoning the term because"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":887.5699999999999,"endTime":888.9499999999999,"body":"it's gotten some bad press."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":889.29,"endTime":892.47,"body":"Interestingly enough, where"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":889.29,"endTime":892.47,"body":"it's getting good press today"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":892.47,"endTime":893.61,"body":"is in the business community."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":893.93,"endTime":897.49,"body":"For example, if you look at some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":893.93,"endTime":897.49,"body":"of the announcements by CEOs of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":897.495,"endTime":900.885,"body":"where they're going, the CEO of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":897.495,"endTime":900.885,"body":"GM has used the word agility."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":901.185,"endTime":903.855,"body":"The CEO of Bayer, they've"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":901.185,"endTime":903.855,"body":"got a new practice underway,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":904.0649999999999,"endTime":905.235,"body":"they've used the word agility."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":905.505,"endTime":908.0849999999999,"body":"And so in a business"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":905.505,"endTime":908.0849999999999,"body":"environment, it is being"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":908.0849999999999,"endTime":909.405,"body":"used more and more."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":909.615,"endTime":912.7049999999999,"body":"And in particular, for example,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":909.615,"endTime":912.7049999999999,"body":"Steve Denning has written"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":912.7049999999999,"endTime":916.65,"body":"several articles recently"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":912.7049999999999,"endTime":916.65,"body":"in Forbes about implementing"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":916.67,"endTime":920.4399999999999,"body":"Agile methodologies for an"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":916.67,"endTime":920.4399999999999,"body":"Agile of mindset has really"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":920.4599999999999,"endTime":923.77,"body":"been important to some of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":920.4599999999999,"endTime":923.77,"body":"the top companies today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":924.0,"endTime":925.42,"body":"Yeah, I've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":924.0,"endTime":925.42,"body":"seen a lot more of that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":925.42,"endTime":927.38,"body":"And it it sparks some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":925.42,"endTime":927.38,"body":"conversations in our community"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":927.38,"endTime":928.669,"body":"about, what do they mean?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":928.829,"endTime":931.4599999999999,"body":"Is there going to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":928.829,"endTime":931.4599999999999,"body":"like scrum for executive,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":931.47,"endTime":934.48,"body":"like strategic planning"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":931.47,"endTime":934.48,"body":"and strategic execution?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":934.6999999999999,"endTime":936.22,"body":"Or is it more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":934.6999999999999,"endTime":936.22,"body":"about that mindset?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":936.22,"endTime":937.78,"body":"And again, right, we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":936.22,"endTime":937.78,"body":"getting tangled in this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":937.78,"endTime":940.14,"body":"notion of methods and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":937.78,"endTime":940.14,"body":"methodologies and mindsets."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":940.5,"endTime":943.42,"body":"And I think it's probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":940.5,"endTime":943.42,"body":"all three, but we just need"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":943.42,"endTime":945.54,"body":"to not let them get tangled."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":945.72,"endTime":947.6,"body":"For example,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":945.72,"endTime":947.6,"body":"there is a, the association"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":947.61,"endTime":950.74,"body":"now, the agile marketing"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":947.61,"endTime":950.74,"body":"association, who's taking"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":950.76,"endTime":953.569,"body":"agile principles and applying"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":950.76,"endTime":953.569,"body":"them to marketing and being"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":953.5699999999999,"endTime":954.6,"body":"fairly successful at it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":954.749,"endTime":956.49,"body":"So I think what you're going"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":954.749,"endTime":956.49,"body":"to find is you'll find an"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":956.49,"endTime":958.639,"body":"extension for marketing"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":956.49,"endTime":958.639,"body":"more than one extension."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":958.649,"endTime":961.659,"body":"You'll find some extensions"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":958.649,"endTime":961.659,"body":"around artificial intelligence,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":961.999,"endTime":964.939,"body":"some in different industries,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":961.999,"endTime":964.939,"body":"and no, I don't think you'll"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":964.939,"endTime":966.419,"body":"have sprint play in the C-suite."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":966.759,"endTime":970.119,"body":"But you'll have more"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":966.759,"endTime":970.119,"body":"agile adaptive ways"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":970.119,"endTime":970.749,"body":"of looking at this."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":971.019,"endTime":973.689,"body":"Just an example, in terms"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":971.019,"endTime":973.689,"body":"of organization structure."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":973.9889999999999,"endTime":976.569,"body":"I was listening to an"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":973.9889999999999,"endTime":976.569,"body":"incredible presentation"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":976.574,"endTime":978.0989999999999,"body":"by the CEO of NVIDIA."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":978.419,"endTime":980.399,"body":"One of the things he was"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":978.419,"endTime":980.399,"body":"talking about was the fact"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":980.404,"endTime":983.9689999999999,"body":"that their newest chip has"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":980.404,"endTime":983.9689999999999,"body":"208 billion transistors on it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":984.209,"endTime":986.309,"body":"When I started, transistor"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":984.209,"endTime":986.309,"body":"was about his biggest"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":986.309,"endTime":986.999,"body":"end of your finger."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":987.319,"endTime":990.199,"body":"If you took that and multiply"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":987.319,"endTime":990.199,"body":"it by 208 billion, you ended"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":990.199,"endTime":991.499,"body":"up with 10 square miles."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":991.769,"endTime":995.7189999999999,"body":"There's just a big difference"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":991.769,"endTime":995.7189999999999,"body":"in the technology today than"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":995.7189999999999,"endTime":997.629,"body":"there was even five years ago."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":997.769,"endTime":1000.829,"body":"And one of the things that I've"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":997.769,"endTime":1000.829,"body":"been talking to groups about,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1000.8589999999999,"endTime":1005.009,"body":"and I I have a woman come up to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1000.8589999999999,"endTime":1005.009,"body":"me after I talk recently, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1005.009,"endTime":1007.939,"body":"she said, you really inspired"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1005.009,"endTime":1007.939,"body":"me and you scared me to death."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1009.3489999999999,"endTime":1011.459,"body":"I was talking about education"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1009.3489999999999,"endTime":1011.459,"body":"and training and all of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1011.459,"endTime":1012.269,"body":"those kinds of things."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1012.549,"endTime":1015.189,"body":"And I was saying that whoever"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1012.549,"endTime":1015.189,"body":"you are, if you were a scrum"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1015.2189999999999,"endTime":1017.809,"body":"master, if you were a project"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1015.2189999999999,"endTime":1017.809,"body":"manager, if you were an agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1017.819,"endTime":1020.904,"body":"coach, if you had to have some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1017.819,"endTime":1020.904,"body":"technology background, you"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1020.904,"endTime":1022.024,"body":"couldn't escape it anymore."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1022.3539999999999,"endTime":1024.534,"body":"And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1022.3539999999999,"endTime":1024.534,"body":"shaken some people up."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1024.664,"endTime":1026.594,"body":"It's a really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1024.664,"endTime":1026.594,"body":"interesting, like I have to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1026.594,"endTime":1029.634,"body":"step out of my shoes sometimes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1026.594,"endTime":1029.634,"body":"too, because like you said,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1029.654,"endTime":1034.1190000000001,"body":"in the manifesto, it's talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1029.654,"endTime":1034.1190000000001,"body":"about software and there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1034.1190000000001,"endTime":1037.559,"body":"a lot of things I look at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1034.1190000000001,"endTime":1037.559,"body":"today and I'm being extreme."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1037.559,"endTime":1039.999,"body":"But I'll be like, duh,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1037.559,"endTime":1039.999,"body":"but it's not duh for a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1039.999,"endTime":1041.659,"body":"lot of other industries."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1041.8890000000001,"endTime":1044.479,"body":"And I'm happy to see that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1041.8890000000001,"endTime":1044.479,"body":"business and marketing and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1044.479,"endTime":1047.869,"body":"other areas are opening"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1044.479,"endTime":1047.869,"body":"their processes up and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1047.869,"endTime":1050.639,"body":"opening up their methods to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1047.869,"endTime":1050.639,"body":"be more nimble, more agile."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1050.799,"endTime":1053.609,"body":"And they've got to find"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1050.799,"endTime":1053.609,"body":"their own path too."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1053.609,"endTime":1056.439,"body":"I mean, it doesn't really help"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1053.609,"endTime":1056.439,"body":"for someone to stand on the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1056.439,"endTime":1058.979,"body":"top of the mountain and be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1056.439,"endTime":1058.979,"body":"like, figure it out already."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1059.219,"endTime":1061.769,"body":"And it also doesn't help"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1059.219,"endTime":1061.769,"body":"anybody to be like, no, this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1061.769,"endTime":1062.939,"body":"is my top of the mountain."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1062.939,"endTime":1065.1589999999999,"body":"You guys stay down there and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1062.939,"endTime":1065.1589999999999,"body":"don't even think about this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1065.539,"endTime":1069.139,"body":"It has a lot of opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1065.539,"endTime":1069.139,"body":"be a lot more collaborative."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1069.399,"endTime":1071.149,"body":"And I think exactly what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1069.399,"endTime":1071.149,"body":"you're saying, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1071.1589999999999,"endTime":1073.129,"body":"It's like, where is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1071.1589999999999,"endTime":1073.129,"body":"change happening the most?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1073.129,"endTime":1075.6689999999999,"body":"Where is agility"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1073.129,"endTime":1075.6689999999999,"body":"required the most?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1075.6689999999999,"endTime":1077.319,"body":"And it's going to be around"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1075.6689999999999,"endTime":1077.319,"body":"technology and it's going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1077.379,"endTime":1077.989,"body":"to be around business."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1078.424,"endTime":1082.114,"body":"And I think as a result,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1078.424,"endTime":1082.114,"body":"yes, it's terrifying."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1082.224,"endTime":1083.2939999999999,"body":"Yes, it's inspiring."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1083.654,"endTime":1086.714,"body":"And I do think it needs to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1083.654,"endTime":1086.714,"body":"come together and then start"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1087.494,"endTime":1088.834,"body":"growing together, I guess."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1089.274,"endTime":1090.355,"body":"We need to take it forward."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1090.655,"endTime":1093.404,"body":"And I guess maybe that is the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1090.655,"endTime":1093.404,"body":"sort of reimagining agile part."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1094.204,"endTime":1095.7549999999999,"body":"And part of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1094.204,"endTime":1095.7549999999999,"body":"it is reimagining management"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1095.974,"endTime":1098.965,"body":"to get back to the end video"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1095.974,"endTime":1098.965,"body":"presentation that I saw, the CEO"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1098.965,"endTime":1102.035,"body":"of NVIDIA has 55 direct reports."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1102.645,"endTime":1104.155,"body":"That's called flattening"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1102.645,"endTime":1104.155,"body":"the organization."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1107.145,"endTime":1109.345,"body":"Now you got to manage a lot"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1107.145,"endTime":1109.345,"body":"differently if you've got"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1109.345,"endTime":1112.145,"body":"55 direct reports, then if"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1109.345,"endTime":1112.145,"body":"you've got three or four."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1112.545,"endTime":1114.734,"body":"And that was a really"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1112.545,"endTime":1114.734,"body":"interesting that you see him"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1114.744,"endTime":1117.8,"body":"talking about how he managed"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1114.744,"endTime":1117.8,"body":"differently, because he had so"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1117.8,"endTime":1118.8899999999999,"body":"many people reporting to it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1119.21,"endTime":1122.68,"body":"And that's the kind of thing"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1119.21,"endTime":1122.68,"body":"in terms of management that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1122.71,"endTime":1124.37,"body":"we've got to sort of reimagine."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1124.69,"endTime":1126.8999999999999,"body":"I'll give you another example"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1124.69,"endTime":1126.8999999999999,"body":"from the other end of it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1126.97,"endTime":1129.1399999999999,"body":"I have a friend of mine who's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1126.97,"endTime":1129.1399999999999,"body":"a consultant, went in to do"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1129.35,"endTime":1133.4089999999999,"body":"some agile transformations for"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1129.35,"endTime":1133.4089999999999,"body":"somebody and found that they had"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1133.6299999999999,"endTime":1137.09,"body":"a hundred software developers"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1133.6299999999999,"endTime":1137.09,"body":"and 98 project managers."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1138.21,"endTime":1140.68,"body":"And it was a little bit out"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1138.21,"endTime":1140.68,"body":"of whack, but what part of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1140.68,"endTime":1143.91,"body":"the problem was they had"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1140.68,"endTime":1143.91,"body":"functional silos, analyts,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1143.93,"endTime":1146.579,"body":"designers, coders, testers."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1146.895,"endTime":1149.935,"body":"And each person had maybe"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1146.895,"endTime":1149.935,"body":"seven or eight projects"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1149.935,"endTime":1150.535,"body":"they were working on."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1150.875,"endTime":1153.415,"body":"So the combination of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1150.875,"endTime":1153.415,"body":"the two required a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1153.415,"endTime":1155.705,"body":"project management to keep"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1153.415,"endTime":1155.705,"body":"all the coordination going."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1156.0339999999999,"endTime":1160.904,"body":"And so one of the fixes there"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1156.0339999999999,"endTime":1160.904,"body":"obviously was to streamline"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1160.904,"endTime":1163.295,"body":"the organization and reduce"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1160.904,"endTime":1163.295,"body":"the number of project"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1163.354,"endTime":1165.675,"body":"management and increase the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1163.354,"endTime":1165.675,"body":"number of technical people."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1166.165,"endTime":1168.625,"body":"And I think that's another"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1166.165,"endTime":1168.625,"body":"area that we've got out"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1168.625,"endTime":1173.215,"body":"of whack is the mix of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1168.625,"endTime":1173.215,"body":"management types, collaboration"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1173.225,"endTime":1174.865,"body":"types, and technical types."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1174.885,"endTime":1178.655,"body":"And I think the technical"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1174.885,"endTime":1178.655,"body":"aspects of agile have sometimes"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1178.675,"endTime":1180.985,"body":"been not given enough weight."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1181.145,"endTime":1182.075,"body":"That"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1181.145,"endTime":1182.075,"body":"makes tons of sense."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1182.335,"endTime":1184.164,"body":"Actually, it's funny because,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1182.335,"endTime":1184.164,"body":"we were talking about this sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1184.164,"endTime":1185.384,"body":"of, arguing from an extreme."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1185.73,"endTime":1188.6399999999999,"body":"And me as a project manager"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1185.73,"endTime":1188.6399999999999,"body":"and someone who represents"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1188.66,"endTime":1191.25,"body":"project managers, like I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1188.66,"endTime":1191.25,"body":"willing to admit there's bad"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1191.25,"endTime":1192.5,"body":"project managers out there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1192.6299999999999,"endTime":1195.869,"body":"And there probably was this need"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1192.6299999999999,"endTime":1195.869,"body":"to go from, all right, we need"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1195.869,"endTime":1198.78,"body":"to imagine a team that maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1195.869,"endTime":1198.78,"body":"there isn't a project manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1199.099,"endTime":1201.32,"body":"And then as our technology"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1199.099,"endTime":1201.32,"body":"projects, especially have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1201.32,"endTime":1203.76,"body":"gotten more complex and there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1201.32,"endTime":1203.76,"body":"needed to be more coordination,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1203.84,"endTime":1206.44,"body":"oh it does make sense for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1203.84,"endTime":1206.44,"body":"there to be a project manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1206.72,"endTime":1209.5,"body":"And then I guess the other"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1206.72,"endTime":1209.5,"body":"middle ground is it might not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1209.5,"endTime":1212.84,"body":"just be the roles clashing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1209.5,"endTime":1212.84,"body":"as much as it is in all the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1212.84,"endTime":1215.33,"body":"like social media, like all"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1212.84,"endTime":1215.33,"body":"the memes and things like that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1215.33,"endTime":1217.93,"body":"and people sort of venting,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1215.33,"endTime":1217.93,"body":"maybe it's just the balance."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1217.94,"endTime":1218.8,"body":"It's the mix, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1218.8,"endTime":1221.47,"body":"It's how we've configured"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1218.8,"endTime":1221.47,"body":"these people together and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1221.47,"endTime":1224.239,"body":"these roles together and where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1221.47,"endTime":1224.239,"body":"we're putting that priority."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1224.579,"endTime":1227.9089999999999,"body":"No longer probably in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1224.579,"endTime":1227.9089999999999,"body":"documentation for an Agile"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1227.9089999999999,"endTime":1230.57,"body":"project, and there probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1227.9089999999999,"endTime":1230.57,"body":"should be more emphasis on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1230.67,"endTime":1231.85,"body":"some of the technical roles."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1232.1399999999999,"endTime":1235.26,"body":"And I think the technical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1232.1399999999999,"endTime":1235.26,"body":"roles and the way we are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1235.29,"endTime":1238.1299999999999,"body":"conceiving of them are not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1235.29,"endTime":1238.1299999999999,"body":"just technical roles anymore."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1238.1399999999999,"endTime":1241.9289999999999,"body":"We're talking about quite"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1238.1399999999999,"endTime":1241.9289999999999,"body":"capable business thinkers, as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1241.9289999999999,"endTime":1242.999,"body":"well as people who can code."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1243.47,"endTime":1246.48,"body":"And who are good at working"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1243.47,"endTime":1246.48,"body":"with people and all of these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1246.48,"endTime":1249.19,"body":"sort of stereotypes and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1246.48,"endTime":1249.19,"body":"archetypes that we had where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1249.24,"endTime":1251.09,"body":"you could make them the butt"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1249.24,"endTime":1251.09,"body":"end of a joke, actually,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1251.09,"endTime":1252.1499999999999,"body":"they're not true anymore."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1252.37,"endTime":1255.25,"body":"And therefore our configurations"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1252.37,"endTime":1255.25,"body":"do need to change."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1255.25,"endTime":1256.46,"body":"Our mixes do need to change."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1256.8899999999999,"endTime":1259.609,"body":"Agile seems to be, a good"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1256.8899999999999,"endTime":1259.609,"body":"future answer, but there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1259.61,"endTime":1260.96,"body":"challenges on the horizon."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1261.069,"endTime":1264.06,"body":"And I was just wondering, what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1261.069,"endTime":1264.06,"body":"challenges do you see Agile"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1264.06,"endTime":1266.47,"body":"methodologies facing today?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1266.7,"endTime":1269.26,"body":"And also, what are some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1266.7,"endTime":1269.26,"body":"of the challenges that are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1269.26,"endTime":1270.61,"body":"going to be on the horizon?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1270.93,"endTime":1273.24,"body":"And why do we need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1270.93,"endTime":1273.24,"body":"reimagine Agile at all?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1273.51,"endTime":1275.02,"body":"Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1273.51,"endTime":1275.02,"body":"we need to reimagine it"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1275.04,"endTime":1276.8,"body":"because of those changes."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1277.48,"endTime":1280.94,"body":"People are talking about AI"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1277.48,"endTime":1280.94,"body":"today, but there's also Web3,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1281.22,"endTime":1285.119,"body":"there's also blockchain, there's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1281.22,"endTime":1285.119,"body":"the cloud, there's big data,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1285.35,"endTime":1287.899,"body":"there's a number of technology"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1285.35,"endTime":1287.899,"body":"changes that are in the way."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1288.309,"endTime":1290.36,"body":"And then in three to five"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1288.309,"endTime":1290.36,"body":"years, if we get quantum"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1290.36,"endTime":1293.54,"body":"computing, it's really going"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1290.36,"endTime":1293.54,"body":"to change things, depending on"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1293.57,"endTime":1296.6,"body":"how quickly they could build"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1293.57,"endTime":1296.6,"body":"applications that are useful to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1296.6,"endTime":1298.35,"body":"businesses and organizations."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1298.62,"endTime":1302.369,"body":"So I think the technology"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1298.62,"endTime":1302.369,"body":"changes are getting in touch"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1302.369,"endTime":1305.1589999999999,"body":"with those and getting the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1302.369,"endTime":1305.1589999999999,"body":"right kind of impetus behind"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1305.1589999999999,"endTime":1307.56,"body":"it in an organization is"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1305.1589999999999,"endTime":1307.56,"body":"really going to be hard."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1307.81,"endTime":1309.22,"body":"Let's get away from"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1307.81,"endTime":1309.22,"body":"agile, for example."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1309.369,"endTime":1311.809,"body":"Let's take another big change"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1309.369,"endTime":1311.809,"body":"over the last 10 years."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1312.1589999999999,"endTime":1312.699,"body":"Big data."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1312.9289999999999,"endTime":1315.405,"body":"There's a book that's just been"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1312.9289999999999,"endTime":1315.405,"body":"written about the evolution of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1315.405,"endTime":1320.685,"body":"big data over that period of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1315.405,"endTime":1320.685,"body":"time and how 90% of the problems"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1320.725,"endTime":1323.725,"body":"or the disappointments with"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1320.725,"endTime":1323.725,"body":"big data implementations was"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1323.725,"endTime":1326.205,"body":"cultural and 10% was technology."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1326.675,"endTime":1328.654,"body":"If you think about agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1326.675,"endTime":1328.654,"body":"following the same kind"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1328.655,"endTime":1331.215,"body":"of path, I think we're"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1328.655,"endTime":1331.215,"body":"actually beating big data in"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1331.215,"endTime":1333.795,"body":"terms of the transformation"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1331.215,"endTime":1333.795,"body":"effectiveness, but there's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1333.795,"endTime":1335.385,"body":"still a lot of long way to go."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1335.385,"endTime":1339.45,"body":"And a lot of it has to do with"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1335.385,"endTime":1339.45,"body":"mindset, I look at mindset as"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1339.45,"endTime":1343.96,"body":"an individual person's mindset"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1339.45,"endTime":1343.96,"body":"and culture as an aggregate of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1343.97,"endTime":1346.21,"body":"all the mindsets in a company."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1346.57,"endTime":1349.1299999999999,"body":"So I use those two words"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1346.57,"endTime":1349.1299999999999,"body":"a little bit differently."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1349.48,"endTime":1353.7,"body":"And I think coming up with those"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1349.48,"endTime":1353.7,"body":"and changes in numbers, we don't"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1353.7,"endTime":1357.58,"body":"seem to be getting any better"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1353.7,"endTime":1357.58,"body":"at cultural and mindset change."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1357.8799999999999,"endTime":1359.8,"body":"And so how are we"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1357.8799999999999,"endTime":1359.8,"body":"going to do that?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1359.96,"endTime":1361.56,"body":"How are we going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1359.96,"endTime":1361.56,"body":"accelerate that change?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1361.86,"endTime":1364.42,"body":"And so one of the things I've"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1361.86,"endTime":1364.42,"body":"been thinking about quite a bit"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1364.61,"endTime":1367.385,"body":"is this idea of a capability"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1364.61,"endTime":1367.385,"body":"as opposed to knowledge."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1367.415,"endTime":1369.825,"body":"Because once you get into"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1367.415,"endTime":1369.825,"body":"AI and you start talking"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1369.835,"endTime":1372.825,"body":"about a knowledge engine,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1369.835,"endTime":1372.825,"body":"knowledge is one thing."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1372.955,"endTime":1376.545,"body":"And so I can use AI and I often"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1372.955,"endTime":1376.545,"body":"do for things that are knowledge"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1376.545,"endTime":1379.335,"body":"based, do some research,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1376.545,"endTime":1379.335,"body":"but capability is different."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1379.335,"endTime":1382.715,"body":"Capability is a function of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1379.335,"endTime":1382.715,"body":"knowledge plus experience"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1382.945,"endTime":1383.885,"body":"plus decision making."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1384.2649999999999,"endTime":1387.715,"body":"And so it's not enough to go"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1384.2649999999999,"endTime":1387.715,"body":"get a couple of certificates"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1388.0149999999999,"endTime":1391.385,"body":"about Scrum or Kanban"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1388.0149999999999,"endTime":1391.385,"body":"or any of those things."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1391.665,"endTime":1393.455,"body":"It's not enough just"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1391.665,"endTime":1393.455,"body":"to have the knowledge."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1393.795,"endTime":1396.045,"body":"You've got to have some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1393.795,"endTime":1396.045,"body":"experience and how can"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1396.045,"endTime":1398.895,"body":"we increase the speed"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1396.045,"endTime":1398.895,"body":"of those experiences?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1399.395,"endTime":1401.635,"body":"Can you get experience other"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1399.395,"endTime":1401.635,"body":"than through experience?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1402.425,"endTime":1404.714,"body":"So, for example, one of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1402.425,"endTime":1404.714,"body":"the ways to do that is the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1404.725,"endTime":1407.135,"body":"way Harvard Business School"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1404.725,"endTime":1407.135,"body":"does with case studies."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1407.135,"endTime":1408.955,"body":"You get a small group of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1407.135,"endTime":1408.955,"body":"people and you give them a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1408.955,"endTime":1411.855,"body":"case study and they argue it"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1408.955,"endTime":1411.855,"body":"to death and then they present"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1411.855,"endTime":1412.875,"body":"it to the rest of the client."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1413.175,"endTime":1415.955,"body":"That's experiential kinds of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1413.175,"endTime":1415.955,"body":"things because it's really in"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1415.955,"endTime":1417.974,"body":"depth analysis of those things."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1418.365,"endTime":1420.2549999999999,"body":"And so there are some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1418.365,"endTime":1420.2549999999999,"body":"ways that you can increase"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1420.2549999999999,"endTime":1422.805,"body":"experience without actually"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1420.2549999999999,"endTime":1422.805,"body":"experiencing something."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1423.315,"endTime":1425.0249999999999,"body":"And the next level"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1423.315,"endTime":1425.0249999999999,"body":"is, do you have enough"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1425.0249999999999,"endTime":1427.445,"body":"experience and knowledge"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1425.0249999999999,"endTime":1427.445,"body":"to make good decisions?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1427.875,"endTime":1430.385,"body":"And how do you know what"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1427.875,"endTime":1430.385,"body":"kind of decisions to make?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1430.655,"endTime":1432.965,"body":"And then there are type"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1430.655,"endTime":1432.965,"body":"one and type two decisions."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1433.2649999999999,"endTime":1436.405,"body":"And so there's a whole"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1433.2649999999999,"endTime":1436.405,"body":"spectrum of things there, and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1436.424,"endTime":1438.995,"body":"AI is going to impact each"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1436.424,"endTime":1438.995,"body":"of those in a different way."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1439.355,"endTime":1443.124,"body":"And so, are you just looking"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1439.355,"endTime":1443.124,"body":"for awareness, are you looking"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1443.124,"endTime":1446.234,"body":"for an assistant, or are"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1443.124,"endTime":1446.234,"body":"you looking for augmentation"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1446.5249999999999,"endTime":1447.785,"body":"from your AI systems?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1448.175,"endTime":1450.425,"body":"And so I think getting"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1448.175,"endTime":1450.425,"body":"those is going to be really"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1450.5149999999999,"endTime":1453.075,"body":"difficult because you've got"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1450.5149999999999,"endTime":1453.075,"body":"a lot of different things"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1453.075,"endTime":1455.475,"body":"to think about today in"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1453.075,"endTime":1455.475,"body":"terms of the technology."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1455.695,"endTime":1456.485,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1455.695,"endTime":1456.485,"body":"couldn't agree more."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1456.485,"endTime":1458.395,"body":"I mean, everything's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1456.485,"endTime":1458.395,"body":"moving really fast."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1458.425,"endTime":1461.325,"body":"And it's funny when you start"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1458.425,"endTime":1461.325,"body":"thinking about iterations,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1461.675,"endTime":1463.0249999999999,"body":"we talk about sprints, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1463.0249999999999,"endTime":1465.625,"body":"And we look at it from an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1463.0249999999999,"endTime":1465.625,"body":"efficiency lens and we do look"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1465.734,"endTime":1468.314,"body":"at it from a learning lens,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1465.734,"endTime":1468.314,"body":"but usually we're looking at it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1468.314,"endTime":1471.995,"body":"from a technical learning lens"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1468.314,"endTime":1471.995,"body":"so that we don't exponentially"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1472.0049999999999,"endTime":1475.185,"body":"magnify our mistakes and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1472.0049999999999,"endTime":1475.185,"body":"only look at it at the end."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1475.495,"endTime":1477.485,"body":"But arguably the sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1475.495,"endTime":1477.485,"body":"of learn fast, fail"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1477.485,"endTime":1479.225,"body":"fast mindset is for us."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1479.5049999999999,"endTime":1480.2549999999999,"body":"It's actually for humans."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1480.595,"endTime":1482.7649999999999,"body":"So that we can actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1480.595,"endTime":1482.7649999999999,"body":"be learning quite"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1482.7649999999999,"endTime":1483.955,"body":"deliberately every time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1483.965,"endTime":1486.364,"body":"And I know that doesn't quite"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1483.965,"endTime":1486.364,"body":"hit the nail on the head in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1486.375,"endTime":1489.0149999999999,"body":"terms of getting experience"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1486.375,"endTime":1489.0149999999999,"body":"without getting experience,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1489.385,"endTime":1494.0049999999999,"body":"but we can also use our short"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1489.385,"endTime":1494.0049999999999,"body":"bursts of experiences to learn"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1494.0049999999999,"endTime":1497.035,"body":"as much as we can from it and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1494.0049999999999,"endTime":1497.035,"body":"be reflective about it so that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1497.035,"endTime":1500.795,"body":"we can sort of get better as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1497.035,"endTime":1500.795,"body":"humans and actually get better"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1500.795,"endTime":1502.955,"body":"at, I think you hit the nail"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1500.795,"endTime":1502.955,"body":"on the head when you said it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1503.2749999999999,"endTime":1504.324,"body":"not usually the technology."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1504.325,"endTime":1506.455,"body":"It's we haven't gotten"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1504.325,"endTime":1506.455,"body":"good at cultural change."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1506.745,"endTime":1510.5049999999999,"body":"The actual controversy around"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1506.745,"endTime":1510.5049999999999,"body":"agile anything, part of it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1510.685,"endTime":1513.395,"body":"just yeah, getting in the weeds"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1510.685,"endTime":1513.395,"body":"about interpretation, but a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1513.395,"endTime":1518.2549999999999,"body":"lot of it is just resistance"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1513.395,"endTime":1518.2549999999999,"body":"to change that seems like it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1518.2749999999999,"endTime":1521.315,"body":"jumping from a place of lots"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1518.2749999999999,"endTime":1521.315,"body":"of structure and security and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1521.315,"endTime":1524.995,"body":"predictability into an area"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1521.315,"endTime":1524.995,"body":"where it's a little bit looser"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1524.995,"endTime":1527.215,"body":"and more ambiguous and unknown."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1527.5149999999999,"endTime":1530.405,"body":"And I think it's that human"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1527.5149999999999,"endTime":1530.405,"body":"mechanism that sometimes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1530.795,"endTime":1533.354,"body":"makes people resistant"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1530.795,"endTime":1533.354,"body":"to something like Agile."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1533.715,"endTime":1534.7839999999999,"body":"There's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1533.715,"endTime":1534.7839999999999,"body":"something to be said for"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1534.785,"endTime":1536.395,"body":"iterations in terms of learning."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1536.735,"endTime":1538.435,"body":"Let's take a project that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1536.735,"endTime":1538.435,"body":"was going to take a year"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1538.725,"endTime":1540.985,"body":"and you do it as a Waterfall"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1538.725,"endTime":1540.985,"body":"project, you get to do the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1540.985,"endTime":1544.5149999999999,"body":"requirements definition once,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1540.985,"endTime":1544.5149999999999,"body":"design once, programming once,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1544.5149999999999,"endTime":1545.594,"body":"you get to do testing once."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1546.024,"endTime":1548.315,"body":"If you do it in an Agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1546.024,"endTime":1548.315,"body":"framework, let's say you"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1548.315,"endTime":1549.634,"body":"do it monthly releases."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1549.944,"endTime":1552.2749999999999,"body":"You get to go through all"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1549.944,"endTime":1552.2749999999999,"body":"of those learning cycles 12"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1552.2749999999999,"endTime":1554.145,"body":"times, as opposed to one time."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1554.2649999999999,"endTime":1557.325,"body":"And so it encourages"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1554.2649999999999,"endTime":1557.325,"body":"that learning process."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1557.605,"endTime":1560.205,"body":"And one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1557.605,"endTime":1560.205,"body":"I despair of a little bit"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1560.325,"endTime":1563.385,"body":"is something I'll call"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1560.325,"endTime":1563.385,"body":"prescriptive agility, which"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1563.385,"endTime":1565.7939999999999,"body":"is a Nazi moron, but that's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1563.385,"endTime":1565.7939999999999,"body":"where some people get."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1565.985,"endTime":1568.595,"body":"They get into let's do these"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1565.985,"endTime":1568.595,"body":"six things and you have to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1568.595,"endTime":1571.055,"body":"do these six things and you"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1568.595,"endTime":1571.055,"body":"have to measure it this way."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1571.2749999999999,"endTime":1573.115,"body":"And it, so it"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1571.2749999999999,"endTime":1573.115,"body":"becomes prescriptive."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1573.355,"endTime":1576.065,"body":"If you're prescriptive with"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1573.355,"endTime":1576.065,"body":"agility, you'll never learn"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1576.065,"endTime":1579.845,"body":"enough to get good experience"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1576.065,"endTime":1579.845,"body":"and then modify what you do it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1580.185,"endTime":1583.78,"body":"And so, as opposed to what I"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1580.185,"endTime":1583.78,"body":"call adaptive agility, which"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1583.78,"endTime":1584.53,"body":"is the way it should be."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1584.53,"endTime":1587.25,"body":"And I shouldn't need"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1584.53,"endTime":1587.25,"body":"the modifier, but I do"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1587.25,"endTime":1588.27,"body":"sometimes these days."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1588.34,"endTime":1591.879,"body":"And so I think this idea"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1588.34,"endTime":1591.879,"body":"of prescriptive agility is"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1591.8799999999999,"endTime":1595.22,"body":"what a lot of people in the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1591.8799999999999,"endTime":1595.22,"body":"industry are complaining about."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1595.45,"endTime":1598.539,"body":"And the other part of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1595.45,"endTime":1598.539,"body":"that is agility, agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1598.539,"endTime":1600.69,"body":"methodologies have spread wide."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1600.73,"endTime":1604.28,"body":"And as Jerry Weinberg used"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1600.73,"endTime":1604.28,"body":"to say, his love raspberry"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1604.28,"endTime":1606.6689999999999,"body":"jam, why do you spread"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1604.28,"endTime":1606.6689999999999,"body":"it the thinner it gets?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1607.01,"endTime":1609.28,"body":"At the edges out here, we"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1607.01,"endTime":1609.28,"body":"have people that have been"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1609.28,"endTime":1612.02,"body":"to a two day scrum master"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1609.28,"endTime":1612.02,"body":"course, teaching scrum master."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1612.23,"endTime":1612.51,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1612.8899999999999,"endTime":1615.86,"body":"And so naturally"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1612.8899999999999,"endTime":1615.86,"body":"that I have some issues there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1616.235,"endTime":1618.245,"body":"It's something"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1616.235,"endTime":1618.245,"body":"that, a) I'm glad we didn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1618.245,"endTime":1619.475,"body":"keep it in a bottle, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1619.495,"endTime":1620.475,"body":"Hog it for ourselves."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1620.5049999999999,"endTime":1623.055,"body":"But at the same time, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1620.5049999999999,"endTime":1623.055,"body":"when something is widespread,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1623.2749999999999,"endTime":1625.805,"body":"it is subject to bad actors."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1626.2749999999999,"endTime":1627.904,"body":"Sometimes just people who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1626.2749999999999,"endTime":1627.904,"body":"don't know that they're bad"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1627.905,"endTime":1630.484,"body":"actors doing a bad thing,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1627.905,"endTime":1630.484,"body":"just misrepresenting or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1630.5149999999999,"endTime":1634.074,"body":"mispracticing, misinterpreting,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1630.5149999999999,"endTime":1634.074,"body":"and it gets a little diluted."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1634.485,"endTime":1635.835,"body":"I think that is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1634.485,"endTime":1635.835,"body":"a challenge area."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1636.245,"endTime":1640.585,"body":"Returning back to, your mission"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1636.245,"endTime":1640.585,"body":"on sort of reimagining agile,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1640.595,"endTime":1642.125,"body":"like I can see the need for it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1642.345,"endTime":1643.705,"body":"I guess that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1642.345,"endTime":1643.705,"body":"question is just how?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1643.945,"endTime":1647.085,"body":"What strategies have you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1643.945,"endTime":1647.085,"body":"been working on or that do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1647.085,"endTime":1649.965,"body":"you envision for addressing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1647.085,"endTime":1649.965,"body":"some of the challenges ahead?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1650.415,"endTime":1651.675,"body":"Well, one"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1650.415,"endTime":1651.675,"body":"of the things that we've"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1651.675,"endTime":1654.745,"body":"done is we've set up a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1651.675,"endTime":1654.745,"body":"reimagining agile initiative."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1655.165,"endTime":1658.195,"body":"There's a core group of, we call"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1655.165,"endTime":1658.195,"body":"them ourselves The Launch Group."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1658.575,"endTime":1660.2749999999999,"body":"We're only trying to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1658.575,"endTime":1660.2749999999999,"body":"launch this thing."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1660.2749999999999,"endTime":1662.035,"body":"We're not trying to manage it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1662.2549999999999,"endTime":1664.425,"body":"And so we've got a website"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1662.2549999999999,"endTime":1664.425,"body":"and we're doing several"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1664.425,"endTime":1667.785,"body":"presentations coming up"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1664.425,"endTime":1667.785,"body":"at different conferences"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1668.035,"endTime":1671.065,"body":"on reimagining agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1668.035,"endTime":1671.065,"body":"back to basics, which"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1671.065,"endTime":1672.495,"body":"is the mindset stuff."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1672.625,"endTime":1675.045,"body":"And then forward to the future,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1672.625,"endTime":1675.045,"body":"how are we going to manage that?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1675.235,"endTime":1677.095,"body":"How are we going to make it"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1675.235,"endTime":1677.095,"body":"go forward in the future?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1677.375,"endTime":1680.225,"body":"And then I'm involved in a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1677.375,"endTime":1680.225,"body":"conference in Portugal in"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1680.225,"endTime":1683.245,"body":"September, which is looking"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1680.225,"endTime":1683.245,"body":"at management reimagination."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1683.7549999999999,"endTime":1687.435,"body":"Not only how do we do"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1683.7549999999999,"endTime":1687.435,"body":"Agile development in an AI"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1687.435,"endTime":1689.995,"body":"environment, but how do we"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1687.435,"endTime":1689.995,"body":"do leadership and management"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1690.305,"endTime":1691.2549999999999,"body":"in an AI environment?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1691.585,"endTime":1694.355,"body":"I'm involved in some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1691.585,"endTime":1694.355,"body":"experimentation processes"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1694.355,"endTime":1696.385,"body":"there because it's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1694.355,"endTime":1696.385,"body":"not straightforward."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1696.685,"endTime":1699.425,"body":"With the height of the site"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1696.685,"endTime":1699.425,"body":"cycle right now, you gotta be"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1699.425,"endTime":1700.735,"body":"careful what you try to do."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1701.145,"endTime":1704.435,"body":"I think as we move forward with"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1701.145,"endTime":1704.435,"body":"Agile, as I said earlier, I"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1704.465,"endTime":1705.705,"body":"liked the term augmented Agile."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1705.705,"endTime":1708.875,"body":"I mean, there's no question"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1705.705,"endTime":1708.875,"body":"it's going to impact each of the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1708.875,"endTime":1712.865,"body":"areas of software development"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1708.875,"endTime":1712.865,"body":"differently all the way from"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1712.865,"endTime":1715.885,"body":"programming and testing all the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1712.865,"endTime":1715.885,"body":"way up to finding requirements."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1715.895,"endTime":1717.095,"body":"And so it's going to change."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1717.405,"endTime":1721.134,"body":"And I think if you try to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1717.405,"endTime":1721.134,"body":"think about the same practices,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1721.394,"endTime":1722.2549999999999,"body":"you're going to be in trouble."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1722.685,"endTime":1723.435,"body":"The same methods."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1723.435,"endTime":1726.335,"body":"What you've got to do is"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1723.435,"endTime":1726.335,"body":"to have the right mindset"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1726.605,"endTime":1729.749,"body":"to say, okay, this is a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1726.605,"endTime":1729.749,"body":"practice that we used to do."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1730.09,"endTime":1732.76,"body":"But we don't need to do this"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1730.09,"endTime":1732.76,"body":"anymore because AI is going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1732.76,"endTime":1735.77,"body":"take advantage of that and we're"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1732.76,"endTime":1735.77,"body":"not going to have to do it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1735.77,"endTime":1739.03,"body":"So, for example, Martin Fowler"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1735.77,"endTime":1739.03,"body":"wrote a book on Refactoring"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1739.339,"endTime":1742.75,"body":"and Refactoring is a pretty"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1739.339,"endTime":1742.75,"body":"interesting exercise to go"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1742.76,"endTime":1743.84,"body":"back and make it better."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1744.0,"endTime":1744.44,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1744.479,"endTime":1745.47,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1744.479,"endTime":1745.47,"body":"what if you have an"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1745.47,"endTime":1746.699,"body":"automatic refactoring tool?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1747.1399999999999,"endTime":1749.69,"body":"They might become subsumed"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1747.1399999999999,"endTime":1749.69,"body":"in the tool and you don't"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1749.709,"endTime":1753.5149999999999,"body":"have to worry as much about"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1749.709,"endTime":1753.5149999999999,"body":"refactoring other than you've"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1753.5249999999999,"endTime":1756.815,"body":"got to be able to, and somebody"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1753.5249999999999,"endTime":1756.815,"body":"has called it rather than"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1757.0149999999999,"endTime":1759.5149999999999,"body":"prompt engineering, it's got"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1757.0149999999999,"endTime":1759.5149999999999,"body":"to be prompt imagination."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1759.735,"endTime":1761.625,"body":"What are the kinds of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1759.735,"endTime":1761.625,"body":"things that you can imagine"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1761.905,"endTime":1764.225,"body":"that would help refactor"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1761.905,"endTime":1764.225,"body":"at a different level?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1764.685,"endTime":1767.2649999999999,"body":"So there's still room"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1764.685,"endTime":1767.2649999999999,"body":"for the knowledge and the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1767.2649999999999,"endTime":1770.0249999999999,"body":"understanding of refactoring"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1767.2649999999999,"endTime":1770.0249999999999,"body":"from a mindset approach,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1770.245,"endTime":1772.735,"body":"but the practices themselves"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1770.245,"endTime":1772.735,"body":"are going to change because"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1772.735,"endTime":1775.605,"body":"of artificial intelligence"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1772.735,"endTime":1775.605,"body":"or other technologies."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1775.605,"endTime":1778.425,"body":"And is that the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1775.605,"endTime":1778.425,"body":"analog for reimagining agile?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1779.095,"endTime":1782.5149999999999,"body":"In other words, you are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1779.095,"endTime":1782.5149999999999,"body":"a launch team, you are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1782.5249999999999,"endTime":1786.865,"body":"going to start down a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1782.5249999999999,"endTime":1786.865,"body":"path of refactoring Agile."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1787.185,"endTime":1789.435,"body":"But more importantly,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1787.185,"endTime":1789.435,"body":"you're building the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1789.435,"endTime":1793.145,"body":"machinery so that Agile can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1789.435,"endTime":1793.145,"body":"refactor itself over time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1793.535,"endTime":1796.135,"body":"Because we're at this moment"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1793.535,"endTime":1796.135,"body":"where we do need to go"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1796.145,"endTime":1798.925,"body":"back to basics in order to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1796.145,"endTime":1798.925,"body":"go forward to the future."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1799.345,"endTime":1801.495,"body":"But instead of coming back"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1799.345,"endTime":1801.495,"body":"here again in 20 years,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1801.875,"endTime":1806.035,"body":"Agile should just evolve,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1801.875,"endTime":1806.035,"body":"should just refactor itself."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1806.095,"endTime":1806.855,"body":"Is that the dream?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1807.135,"endTime":1807.465,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1807.465,"endTime":1809.155,"body":"I hadn't thought about it"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1807.465,"endTime":1809.155,"body":"in terms of refactoring,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1809.185,"endTime":1810.035,"body":"but I think you're right."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1810.345,"endTime":1812.2749999999999,"body":"I think that's part"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1810.345,"endTime":1812.2749999999999,"body":"of the goal we have."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1812.325,"endTime":1814.955,"body":"We want people to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1812.325,"endTime":1814.955,"body":"understand that Agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1814.955,"endTime":1816.675,"body":"has not been a disaster."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1817.0049999999999,"endTime":1819.595,"body":"It's been highly successful"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1817.0049999999999,"endTime":1819.595,"body":"in many different places."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1819.935,"endTime":1822.595,"body":"And that there are some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1819.935,"endTime":1822.595,"body":"disappointments with Agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1822.595,"endTime":1823.865,"body":"that we've got to address."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1824.21,"endTime":1826.25,"body":"What we've really got to do"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1824.21,"endTime":1826.25,"body":"is address how it's going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1826.25,"endTime":1827.95,"body":"adapt or refactor in the future."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1828.3,"endTime":1830.59,"body":"And that's where I'm switching"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1828.3,"endTime":1830.59,"body":"back to the basics to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1830.59,"endTime":1831.8899999999999,"body":"looking at it in the future."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1832.19,"endTime":1834.94,"body":"We've got a website"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1832.19,"endTime":1834.94,"body":"that we've got a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1834.94,"endTime":1835.92,"body":"great stuff on it yet."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1836.26,"endTime":1838.58,"body":"And we're trying to involve"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1836.26,"endTime":1838.58,"body":"other organizations."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1838.58,"endTime":1841.54,"body":"So, for example, we've got"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1838.58,"endTime":1841.54,"body":"the Agile Alliance that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1841.85,"endTime":1844.45,"body":"has gotten to the group to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1841.85,"endTime":1844.45,"body":"do several panel sessions"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1844.76,"endTime":1845.85,"body":"at different conferences."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1845.85,"endTime":1847.8799999999999,"body":"And we're going to do a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1845.85,"endTime":1847.8799999999999,"body":"panel session at the Agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1847.8799999999999,"endTime":1849.6499999999999,"body":"conference in Dallas this year."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1849.91,"endTime":1852.32,"body":"And I would welcome, for"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1849.91,"endTime":1852.32,"body":"example, the Scrum Organization"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1852.7549999999999,"endTime":1856.045,"body":"to take on this initiative"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1852.7549999999999,"endTime":1856.045,"body":"of back to basics forward"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1856.045,"endTime":1859.5249999999999,"body":"to the future, we're not"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1856.045,"endTime":1859.5249999999999,"body":"denominational in our approach."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1859.7649999999999,"endTime":1862.545,"body":"And so, for example, it's one of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1859.7649999999999,"endTime":1862.545,"body":"the reasons that I looked into"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1862.565,"endTime":1864.845,"body":"what are the disappointments"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1862.565,"endTime":1864.845,"body":"with agile and try to do a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1864.845,"endTime":1868.785,"body":"root cause analysis rather than"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1864.845,"endTime":1868.785,"body":"saying X, Y, Z is terrible."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1869.105,"endTime":1871.695,"body":"What is it about the process"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1869.105,"endTime":1871.695,"body":"that they went through"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1871.885,"endTime":1872.865,"body":"that's disappointing?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1873.2549999999999,"endTime":1876.085,"body":"And how could we learn from"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1873.2549999999999,"endTime":1876.085,"body":"that and apply it across"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1876.085,"endTime":1878.2549999999999,"body":"the board, whether you're"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1876.085,"endTime":1878.2549999999999,"body":"doing Kanban, or Scrum, or"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1878.2549999999999,"endTime":1880.595,"body":"XP or any of the, or DevOps."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1880.905,"endTime":1882.875,"body":"I like the sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1880.905,"endTime":1882.875,"body":"non denominational approach."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1882.875,"endTime":1885.595,"body":"And it strikes me that because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1882.875,"endTime":1885.595,"body":"of the scale and success of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1885.595,"endTime":1889.305,"body":"Agile, now your effort is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1885.595,"endTime":1889.305,"body":"at state level diplomacy."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1889.465,"endTime":1891.735,"body":"It feels like you're bringing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1889.465,"endTime":1891.735,"body":"together all of these,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1891.735,"endTime":1895.635,"body":"bodies and associations and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1891.735,"endTime":1895.635,"body":"these factions, for lack"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1895.635,"endTime":1897.965,"body":"of a better word, that see"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1895.635,"endTime":1897.965,"body":"themselves as separate."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1898.22,"endTime":1901.07,"body":"But there is a sort of moment of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1898.22,"endTime":1901.07,"body":"unity that's required in order"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1901.07,"endTime":1904.21,"body":"for us to get ahead, otherwise"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1901.07,"endTime":1904.21,"body":"we are just that jelly spread"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1904.21,"endTime":1907.0,"body":"super thin, and we don't see"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1904.21,"endTime":1907.0,"body":"the other side of the bread"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1907.0,"endTime":1908.34,"body":"as being covered in jelly."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1908.55,"endTime":1910.59,"body":"And that's different jelly,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1908.55,"endTime":1910.59,"body":"oh, yeah, that's that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1910.59,"endTime":1912.23,"body":"not us, we're fragmented."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1912.3899999999999,"endTime":1913.28,"body":"We've"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1912.3899999999999,"endTime":1913.28,"body":"talked about this in"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1913.29,"endTime":1914.36,"body":"several different ways."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1914.785,"endTime":1917.435,"body":"And one of the critical"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1914.785,"endTime":1917.435,"body":"skills for anybody who wants"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1917.435,"endTime":1919.825,"body":"to be agile, whether you're"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1917.435,"endTime":1919.825,"body":"a programmer or you're"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1919.825,"endTime":1923.145,"body":"the CEO of the company,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1919.825,"endTime":1923.145,"body":"is to understand balance."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1923.485,"endTime":1926.495,"body":"You're always balancing"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1923.485,"endTime":1926.495,"body":"off creativity versus"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1926.495,"endTime":1930.215,"body":"control, or collaboration"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1926.495,"endTime":1930.215,"body":"versus kind of direction."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1930.435,"endTime":1933.285,"body":"And from an organizational"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1930.435,"endTime":1933.285,"body":"standpoint, your culture"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1933.295,"endTime":1936.675,"body":"has to adapt to where you"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1933.295,"endTime":1936.675,"body":"are at a particular time and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1936.675,"endTime":1937.725,"body":"where you need to get to."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1938.045,"endTime":1940.895,"body":"On a scale of 1 to 10 on the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1938.045,"endTime":1940.895,"body":"agile scale, 10 being the most"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1940.895,"endTime":1942.935,"body":"agile, 1 being not agile at all."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1943.215,"endTime":1945.109,"body":"Maybe you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1943.215,"endTime":1945.109,"body":"move from a 1 to a 3."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1945.49,"endTime":1947.55,"body":"It's going to be a little bit"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1945.49,"endTime":1947.55,"body":"more agile, but not as agile"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1947.55,"endTime":1951.33,"body":"as say Google or Microsoft"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1947.55,"endTime":1951.33,"body":"or another organization."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1951.67,"endTime":1953.6399999999999,"body":"How you do that, it's going"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1951.67,"endTime":1953.6399999999999,"body":"to be very different than"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1953.6399999999999,"endTime":1956.1499999999999,"body":"how you move from seven"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1953.6399999999999,"endTime":1956.1499999999999,"body":"to eight or how you move"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1956.16,"endTime":1957.62,"body":"from basically four to six."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1957.905,"endTime":1960.075,"body":"There's a point in there,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1957.905,"endTime":1960.075,"body":"which it's very difficult."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1960.335,"endTime":1963.475,"body":"Carol Dweck has written a book"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1960.335,"endTime":1963.475,"body":"on Mindset, and she talks about"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1963.475,"endTime":1966.215,"body":"the fact that there are two"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1963.475,"endTime":1966.215,"body":"kinds, basic kinds of mindset."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1966.455,"endTime":1969.225,"body":"The growth mindset, it's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1966.455,"endTime":1969.225,"body":"really a medical change and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1969.225,"endTime":1971.685,"body":"a fixed mindset that isn't,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1969.225,"endTime":1971.685,"body":"and you need some of both."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1971.735,"endTime":1974.115,"body":"But unfortunately, what"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1971.735,"endTime":1974.115,"body":"happens in big organizations"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1974.115,"endTime":1977.045,"body":"over time is you get a much"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1974.115,"endTime":1977.045,"body":"higher percentage of fixed"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1977.045,"endTime":1980.885,"body":"and growth, and that's a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1977.045,"endTime":1980.885,"body":"very hard change to make."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1980.895,"endTime":1983.0049999999999,"body":"It means that if you're at"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1980.895,"endTime":1983.0049999999999,"body":"a one and you want to move"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1983.0049999999999,"endTime":1986.35,"body":"to a three or four, you may"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1983.0049999999999,"endTime":1986.35,"body":"need to think about some of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1986.35,"endTime":1989.61,"body":"those fixed mindset people and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1986.35,"endTime":1989.61,"body":"whether they are really gonna"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1989.95,"endTime":1991.82,"body":"restrict your ability to move."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1992.32,"endTime":1994.86,"body":"And do you have enough growth"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1992.32,"endTime":1994.86,"body":"mindset people to make that?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1995.18,"endTime":1998.05,"body":"It's not enough to have one at"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1995.18,"endTime":1998.05,"body":"the top or one at the bottom."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1998.26,"endTime":2000.28,"body":"You've got to have somebody"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":1998.26,"endTime":2000.28,"body":"at every level who's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2000.28,"endTime":2001.37,"body":"willing to take that on."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2001.6,"endTime":2003.84,"body":"And so that's part of the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2001.6,"endTime":2003.84,"body":"problems with culture change."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2004.165,"endTime":2007.495,"body":"It's changing that basically"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2004.165,"endTime":2007.495,"body":"growth, fixed mindset approach."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2007.7649999999999,"endTime":2008.945,"body":"It's really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2007.7649999999999,"endTime":2008.945,"body":"interesting as well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2008.955,"endTime":2009.915,"body":"the gradient, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2010.195,"endTime":2013.075,"body":"And I think a lot of us are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2010.195,"endTime":2013.075,"body":"programmed to want it to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2013.075,"endTime":2016.845,"body":"binary, to want to flip a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2013.075,"endTime":2016.845,"body":"switch, agile transformation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2016.855,"endTime":2020.595,"body":"overnight, but actually going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2016.855,"endTime":2020.595,"body":"from one to three is also good."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2020.875,"endTime":2023.2749999999999,"body":"It's interesting"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2020.875,"endTime":2023.2749999999999,"body":"too, in terms of context, I"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2023.2749999999999,"endTime":2027.115,"body":"used to speak a long time ago"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2023.2749999999999,"endTime":2027.115,"body":"at several PMI organizational"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2027.2649999999999,"endTime":2028.345,"body":"conferences and things."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2028.605,"endTime":2031.245,"body":"And one of the things that I"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2028.605,"endTime":2031.245,"body":"would do is I would say, do you"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2031.245,"endTime":2034.8,"body":"have projects in which you have"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2031.245,"endTime":2034.8,"body":"a pretty definite requirements"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2035.1299999999999,"endTime":2037.01,"body":"and you have a known"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2035.1299999999999,"endTime":2037.01,"body":"technology that you're using?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2037.57,"endTime":2038.68,"body":"And they'd say, yes, we do."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2039.11,"endTime":2041.24,"body":"And then I'd say, do you have"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2039.11,"endTime":2041.24,"body":"some projects that are far out"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2041.24,"endTime":2044.94,"body":"there, bleeding edge technology"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2041.24,"endTime":2044.94,"body":"and very uncertain requirements?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2045.1299999999999,"endTime":2045.83,"body":"They say, yes."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2046.25,"endTime":2048.4300000000003,"body":"And then I say, and do you"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2046.25,"endTime":2048.4300000000003,"body":"measure success the same"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2048.4300000000003,"endTime":2049.59,"body":"way on both those projects?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2049.92,"endTime":2051.28,"body":"And they would say, oops."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2053.63,"endTime":2055.4900000000002,"body":"And do you manage those"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2053.63,"endTime":2055.4900000000002,"body":"projects the same?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2055.915,"endTime":2059.125,"body":"And that's what I mean"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2055.915,"endTime":2059.125,"body":"about context and balance."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2059.175,"endTime":2061.245,"body":"You've got to understand"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2059.175,"endTime":2061.245,"body":"the context that you're"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2061.245,"endTime":2063.445,"body":"working in and you've got"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2061.245,"endTime":2063.445,"body":"to understand the balance."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2063.7850000000003,"endTime":2066.665,"body":"No documentation to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2063.7850000000003,"endTime":2066.665,"body":"complete over documentation,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2066.935,"endTime":2068.765,"body":"whereas the balance points"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2066.935,"endTime":2068.765,"body":"that you need to be."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2068.945,"endTime":2070.7250000000004,"body":"Short term planning"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2068.945,"endTime":2070.7250000000004,"body":"versus long term planning."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2070.9550000000004,"endTime":2071.895,"body":"Where do you need to be?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2072.1650000000004,"endTime":2074.525,"body":"One of my concerns about some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2072.1650000000004,"endTime":2074.525,"body":"of the short term planning"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2074.775,"endTime":2078.085,"body":"and particularly the kind of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2074.775,"endTime":2078.085,"body":"a featureitis approach is that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2078.0950000000003,"endTime":2081.2450000000003,"body":"we lose track of the fact that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2078.0950000000003,"endTime":2081.2450000000003,"body":"there's actually a goal in line."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2081.4950000000003,"endTime":2084.3250000000003,"body":"It's a longer term goal"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2081.4950000000003,"endTime":2084.3250000000003,"body":"than just getting 36"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2084.5550000000003,"endTime":2085.635,"body":"new features in today."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2086.0600000000004,"endTime":2089.2000000000003,"body":"And sometimes we lose that long"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2086.0600000000004,"endTime":2089.2000000000003,"body":"term plan because everybody says"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2089.4300000000003,"endTime":2090.82,"body":"you can't do any long term plan."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2091.23,"endTime":2093.5600000000004,"body":"And so, one of the things"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2091.23,"endTime":2093.5600000000004,"body":"I do is I go back to the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2093.5600000000004,"endTime":2096.77,"body":"word that I used in my first"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2093.5600000000004,"endTime":2096.77,"body":"book, which was speculation."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2096.8300000000004,"endTime":2098.46,"body":"You don't need to plan,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2096.8300000000004,"endTime":2098.46,"body":"you need to speculate."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2098.8250000000003,"endTime":2101.9550000000004,"body":"You need to envision where you"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2098.8250000000003,"endTime":2101.9550000000004,"body":"want to go, not plan it out in"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2101.985,"endTime":2103.485,"body":"detail the way we used to do it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2103.675,"endTime":2105.385,"body":"But you still got to have"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2103.675,"endTime":2105.385,"body":"an idea of where you're"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2105.405,"endTime":2106.795,"body":"going, what's the outcome"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2105.405,"endTime":2106.795,"body":"you're looking for."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2107.2250000000004,"endTime":2108.625,"body":"What's super"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2107.2250000000004,"endTime":2108.625,"body":"interesting to me is when you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2108.625,"endTime":2113.4150000000004,"body":"say it, it's so obvious, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2108.625,"endTime":2113.4150000000004,"body":"we've created camps more than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2113.4150000000004,"endTime":2115.1650000000004,"body":"we've created techniques."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2115.9,"endTime":2118.4,"body":"And so we're trying to, cook"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2115.9,"endTime":2118.4,"body":"a turkey the same way that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2118.4,"endTime":2122.0,"body":"we would make a salad because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2118.4,"endTime":2122.0,"body":"we are agile, we're an agile,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2122.05,"endTime":2123.38,"body":"we only do this one way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2123.7000000000003,"endTime":2125.7000000000003,"body":"And then when you really break"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2123.7000000000003,"endTime":2125.7000000000003,"body":"it down, you're like, well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2125.88,"endTime":2127.88,"body":"if you have high ambiguity,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2125.88,"endTime":2127.88,"body":"maybe this, and if you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2127.88,"endTime":2130.46,"body":"have a high requirement for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2127.88,"endTime":2130.46,"body":"predictability and like stable"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2130.46,"endTime":2131.4,"body":"requirements, maybe this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2131.7900000000004,"endTime":2135.4500000000003,"body":"It's not spatula versus"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2131.7900000000004,"endTime":2135.4500000000003,"body":"fork, I don't know, to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2135.4500000000003,"endTime":2136.59,"body":"take the metaphor too far."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2136.8300000000004,"endTime":2140.69,"body":"It's yeah, when should we use"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2136.8300000000004,"endTime":2140.69,"body":"the spatula versus another tool."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2141.03,"endTime":2143.96,"body":"And I like the thing you said"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2141.03,"endTime":2143.96,"body":"about bringing people together"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2144.01,"endTime":2147.4300000000003,"body":"as a sort of non denominational,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2144.01,"endTime":2147.4300000000003,"body":"I think is the word you used."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2147.4300000000003,"endTime":2149.7200000000003,"body":"In other words we're not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2147.4300000000003,"endTime":2149.7200000000003,"body":"representing any camp, let's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2149.7200000000003,"endTime":2154.8,"body":"just get back together so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2149.7200000000003,"endTime":2154.8,"body":"that we can refactor agile"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2154.98,"endTime":2156.27,"body":"so that it can move forward."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2156.28,"endTime":2159.6200000000003,"body":"Because there are these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2156.28,"endTime":2159.6200000000003,"body":"disappointments that are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2159.6200000000003,"endTime":2163.52,"body":"plaguing everyone who's using"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2159.6200000000003,"endTime":2163.52,"body":"it or not using it, and how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2163.52,"endTime":2166.7000000000003,"body":"do we sort of get beyond those"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2163.52,"endTime":2166.7000000000003,"body":"and learn from them, I guess."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2167.27,"endTime":2169.8500000000004,"body":"From where you stand, just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2167.27,"endTime":2169.8500000000004,"body":"project methodologies in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2169.8500000000004,"endTime":2172.6200000000003,"body":"general, projects in general,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2169.8500000000004,"endTime":2172.6200000000003,"body":"I guess the way that we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2172.6200000000003,"endTime":2176.4,"body":"collaborate and deliver outcomes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2172.6200000000003,"endTime":2176.4,"body":"together, like where is the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2176.4,"endTime":2179.38,"body":"future headed more specifically,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2176.4,"endTime":2179.38,"body":"coming back to your speculation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2179.38,"endTime":2181.7900000000004,"body":"thing, how do we prepare"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2179.38,"endTime":2181.7900000000004,"body":"for an unknown future?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2182.07,"endTime":2184.1200000000003,"body":"When I was"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2182.07,"endTime":2184.1200000000003,"body":"working on my book on Wild West"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2184.1200000000003,"endTime":2186.88,"body":"to Agile that was published last"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2184.1200000000003,"endTime":2186.88,"body":"year, I started chapter nine,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2187.26,"endTime":2188.42,"body":"which was the final chapter."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2188.42,"endTime":2190.46,"body":"And I said to myself,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2188.42,"endTime":2190.46,"body":"well, this is where I want"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2190.46,"endTime":2191.3300000000004,"body":"to predict the future."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2192.3300000000004,"endTime":2194.98,"body":"And I said, nah, that's"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2192.3300000000004,"endTime":2194.98,"body":"not going to make it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2195.0800000000004,"endTime":2197.8700000000003,"body":"Predicting the future is a,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2195.0800000000004,"endTime":2197.8700000000003,"body":"not a very good thing to try."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2198.09,"endTime":2200.88,"body":"So I realized because I'd"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2198.09,"endTime":2200.88,"body":"written sort of a history of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2200.88,"endTime":2203.46,"body":"software development from a"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2200.88,"endTime":2203.46,"body":"personal perspective, that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2203.4700000000003,"endTime":2206.6200000000003,"body":"what I was interested in is"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2203.4700000000003,"endTime":2206.6200000000003,"body":"how history can help prepare"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2206.6200000000003,"endTime":2208.8,"body":"you for the future, not"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2206.6200000000003,"endTime":2208.8,"body":"how to predict the future."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2209.26,"endTime":2211.21,"body":"When I started looking at"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2209.26,"endTime":2211.21,"body":"that's one of the reasons"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2211.2200000000003,"endTime":2214.05,"body":"that I went ahead and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2211.2200000000003,"endTime":2214.05,"body":"did the steps to prepare."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2214.5800000000004,"endTime":2217.02,"body":"First one is to try to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2214.5800000000004,"endTime":2217.02,"body":"understand historical patterns."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2217.5600000000004,"endTime":2221.11,"body":"So one of the things that I try"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2217.5600000000004,"endTime":2221.11,"body":"to do when I'm writing something"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2221.13,"endTime":2224.52,"body":"today is I'll go back and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2221.13,"endTime":2224.52,"body":"I'll pick a piece of history."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2224.9700000000003,"endTime":2228.25,"body":"And so I just wrote a thing"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2224.9700000000003,"endTime":2228.25,"body":"on structured methods and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2228.44,"endTime":2231.4100000000003,"body":"what I call monumental"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2228.44,"endTime":2231.4100000000003,"body":"methodology of the eighties"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2231.4300000000003,"endTime":2234.2400000000002,"body":"to give people an idea of this"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2231.4300000000003,"endTime":2234.2400000000002,"body":"is not the first time some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2234.2400000000002,"endTime":2235.05,"body":"of this stuff has happened."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2235.59,"endTime":2239.38,"body":"AI has been on a up and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2235.59,"endTime":2239.38,"body":"down curve for 30 years or"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2239.4,"endTime":2242.7200000000003,"body":"40 years in terms of hype"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2239.4,"endTime":2242.7200000000003,"body":"cycles and low cycles and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2242.7200000000003,"endTime":2243.8500000000004,"body":"hype cycles and low cycle."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2244.44,"endTime":2246.48,"body":"And I think there are a lot"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2244.44,"endTime":2246.48,"body":"of people that they have,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2246.75,"endTime":2248.7000000000003,"body":"don't have a sense of history"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2246.75,"endTime":2248.7000000000003,"body":"and I think it can help."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2249.1400000000003,"endTime":2251.05,"body":"You've got to change the"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2249.1400000000003,"endTime":2251.05,"body":"mindset and the culture."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2251.3900000000003,"endTime":2253.3900000000003,"body":"And we've got to find"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2251.3900000000003,"endTime":2253.3900000000003,"body":"ways of doing that better."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2253.7400000000002,"endTime":2256.28,"body":"There's been so many"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2253.7400000000002,"endTime":2256.28,"body":"books written about change"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2256.28,"endTime":2258.44,"body":"management and from so many"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2256.28,"endTime":2258.44,"body":"different perspectives,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2258.8,"endTime":2261.21,"body":"we're bumping up against"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2258.8,"endTime":2261.21,"body":"what it takes to be human."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2261.7200000000003,"endTime":2264.75,"body":"And maybe we're doing as"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2261.7200000000003,"endTime":2264.75,"body":"good as we can, but maybe"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2264.75,"endTime":2266.3300000000004,"body":"there's some things we"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2264.75,"endTime":2266.3300000000004,"body":"could do to improve that."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2266.67,"endTime":2268.57,"body":"As I've mentioned, I think"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2266.67,"endTime":2268.57,"body":"one of the ways we can"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2268.71,"endTime":2271.63,"body":"prepare for the future is"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2268.71,"endTime":2271.63,"body":"redesigning the organization."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2271.9,"endTime":2273.59,"body":"And so part of that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2271.9,"endTime":2273.59,"body":"is flattening it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2273.9900000000002,"endTime":2276.86,"body":"Part of that is teaching or"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2273.9900000000002,"endTime":2276.86,"body":"having the right kinds of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2277.11,"endTime":2280.82,"body":"training and experience for"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2277.11,"endTime":2280.82,"body":"both managers and employees."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2281.135,"endTime":2283.6650000000004,"body":"And you're going to have"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2281.135,"endTime":2283.6650000000004,"body":"to ramp up the training."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2284.0950000000003,"endTime":2285.5550000000003,"body":"There's no longer a career path."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2285.875,"endTime":2286.8650000000002,"body":"It's an obstacle course."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2287.4750000000004,"endTime":2289.7050000000004,"body":"And each of us is going"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2287.4750000000004,"endTime":2289.7050000000004,"body":"to be responsible for"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2289.7450000000003,"endTime":2291.895,"body":"plotting our ways through"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2289.7450000000003,"endTime":2291.895,"body":"that obstacle course."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2292.2050000000004,"endTime":2295.1150000000002,"body":"So, for example, let's say"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2292.2050000000004,"endTime":2295.1150000000002,"body":"I'm looking at the future"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2295.135,"endTime":2297.1150000000002,"body":"and I'm saying, I need"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2295.135,"endTime":2297.1150000000002,"body":"to know more about AI."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2297.465,"endTime":2298.235,"body":"Where do I start?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2298.565,"endTime":2299.275,"body":"What do I look at?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2299.6650000000004,"endTime":2301.6800000000003,"body":"How do I find people"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2299.6650000000004,"endTime":2301.6800000000003,"body":"that are going to give"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2301.6800000000003,"endTime":2302.67,"body":"me some good information?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2302.9500000000003,"endTime":2304.1000000000004,"body":"What classes do I go to?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2304.48,"endTime":2305.7200000000003,"body":"I was just looking at something."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2306.05,"endTime":2311.4700000000003,"body":"Course C has a basic AI course,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2306.05,"endTime":2311.4700000000003,"body":"5000 people took it last year."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2312.0400000000004,"endTime":2314.61,"body":"400,000 people have taken"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2312.0400000000004,"endTime":2314.61,"body":"it already this year."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2314.9900000000002,"endTime":2317.5,"body":"And so where are we going"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2314.9900000000002,"endTime":2317.5,"body":"to get that knowledge and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2317.5,"endTime":2318.51,"body":"how are we going to get it?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2318.94,"endTime":2322.8900000000003,"body":"So I think that's a really,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2318.94,"endTime":2322.8900000000003,"body":"we've got to accelerate"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2323.32,"endTime":2324.38,"body":"our capability improvement."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2324.9,"endTime":2327.88,"body":"And again, capability is"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2324.9,"endTime":2327.88,"body":"knowledge, function of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2327.88,"endTime":2330.38,"body":"knowledge, experience,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2327.88,"endTime":2330.38,"body":"and decision making."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2330.52,"endTime":2332.0,"body":"How do we do that better?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2332.0,"endTime":2333.44,"body":"It's not enough just"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2332.0,"endTime":2333.44,"body":"to get the knowledge."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2333.925,"endTime":2337.5750000000003,"body":"I used to have some concerns"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2333.925,"endTime":2337.5750000000003,"body":"about certifications"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2338.0350000000003,"endTime":2340.335,"body":"and the proliferation of"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2338.0350000000003,"endTime":2340.335,"body":"certifications in our industry."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2340.9350000000004,"endTime":2343.7850000000003,"body":"And I still have some"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2340.9350000000004,"endTime":2343.7850000000003,"body":"issues with it, but I have"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2343.795,"endTime":2346.5950000000003,"body":"come to look at those as"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2343.795,"endTime":2346.5950000000003,"body":"the same thing as boy or"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2346.5950000000003,"endTime":2347.7850000000003,"body":"girl scout marriage badges."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2348.4550000000004,"endTime":2349.5350000000003,"body":"I've got some marriage badges."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2349.695,"endTime":2352.0350000000003,"body":"All that tells me is I've gotten"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2349.695,"endTime":2352.0350000000003,"body":"a little bit of basic knowledge."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2352.4750000000004,"endTime":2354.8250000000003,"body":"And so I don't really guess"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2352.4750000000004,"endTime":2354.8250000000003,"body":"the certifications anymore,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2355.065,"endTime":2358.695,"body":"although I do sometimes get"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2355.065,"endTime":2358.695,"body":"a chuckle out of somebody"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2358.695,"endTime":2360.925,"body":"that has 19 certifications"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2358.695,"endTime":2360.925,"body":"out to their name."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2361.8250000000003,"endTime":2365.315,"body":"And I think we've got to,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2361.8250000000003,"endTime":2365.315,"body":"again, technology is going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2365.315,"endTime":2366.405,"body":"become even more important."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2366.4150000000004,"endTime":2368.7650000000003,"body":"There's another book out"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2366.4150000000004,"endTime":2368.7650000000003,"body":"about the coming wave."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2369.145,"endTime":2372.445,"body":"It talked not only about AI,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2369.145,"endTime":2372.445,"body":"but talked about biotech."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2372.8050000000003,"endTime":2374.9550000000004,"body":"In fact, that those are going"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2372.8050000000003,"endTime":2374.9550000000004,"body":"to interact with each other."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2375.4550000000004,"endTime":2379.085,"body":"So for example, if you have"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2375.4550000000004,"endTime":2379.085,"body":"an AI engine that is oriented"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2379.085,"endTime":2382.045,"body":"towards cell manipulation,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2379.085,"endTime":2382.045,"body":"and you have estimates,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2382.32,"endTime":2385.3100000000004,"body":"biological instruments that"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2382.32,"endTime":2385.3100000000004,"body":"can be reduced in cost."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2385.57,"endTime":2388.67,"body":"Pretty soon you've got"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2385.57,"endTime":2388.67,"body":"the ability at many levels"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2388.67,"endTime":2389.82,"body":"to do jeep manipulation."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2390.32,"endTime":2393.1000000000004,"body":"If that's a scary"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2390.32,"endTime":2393.1000000000004,"body":"prospect as much as AI."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2393.51,"endTime":2395.7200000000003,"body":"And so there are all these"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2393.51,"endTime":2395.7200000000003,"body":"kinds of technological things"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2396.03,"endTime":2399.7000000000003,"body":"that, whether you're a project"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2396.03,"endTime":2399.7000000000003,"body":"manager or a mid level manager"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2399.7000000000003,"endTime":2403.51,"body":"or a CEO or a CIO, you've"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2399.7000000000003,"endTime":2403.51,"body":"got to have this technical"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2403.9100000000003,"endTime":2405.1200000000003,"body":"understanding and knowledge."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2405.1200000000003,"endTime":2407.15,"body":"That doesn't mean you know"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2405.1200000000003,"endTime":2407.15,"body":"how to program a computer,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2407.15,"endTime":2410.4900000000002,"body":"but it means that you need to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2407.15,"endTime":2410.4900000000002,"body":"have more technical background"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2410.7900000000004,"endTime":2412.1400000000003,"body":"than we've ever had before."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2412.38,"endTime":2415.01,"body":"So decision making"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2412.38,"endTime":2415.01,"body":"through our experience and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2415.01,"endTime":2417.4640000000004,"body":"knowledge is the way that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2415.01,"endTime":2417.4640000000004,"body":"we've always moved forward."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2417.7450000000003,"endTime":2419.7450000000003,"body":"What if I'm really refreshing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2417.7450000000003,"endTime":2419.7450000000003,"body":"about that in some ways?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2419.755,"endTime":2422.7250000000004,"body":"Cause you know, we're talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2419.755,"endTime":2422.7250000000004,"body":"about this kind of haunting yet"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2423.0150000000003,"endTime":2427.2650000000003,"body":"fascinating ghost called AI that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2423.0150000000003,"endTime":2427.2650000000003,"body":"has suddenly appeared and yet"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2427.275,"endTime":2429.824,"body":"has been around for 30 years."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2429.8250000000003,"endTime":2432.4750000000004,"body":"And we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2429.8250000000003,"endTime":2432.4750000000004,"body":"constitutions and we're talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2432.4750000000004,"endTime":2436.355,"body":"about how we've done change"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2432.4750000000004,"endTime":2436.355,"body":"in the past, not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2436.7250000000004,"endTime":2440.3650000000002,"body":"changing agile, but changing the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2436.7250000000004,"endTime":2440.3650000000002,"body":"way we work together or changing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2440.3650000000002,"endTime":2443.295,"body":"the way we communicate or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2440.3650000000002,"endTime":2443.295,"body":"changing the principles and the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2443.295,"endTime":2444.895,"body":"mindsets that we're relying on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2445.135,"endTime":2446.255,"body":"Have we gotten good at it?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2446.835,"endTime":2447.4150000000004,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2447.5950000000003,"endTime":2450.025,"body":"Will we get good at it this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2447.5950000000003,"endTime":2450.025,"body":"time just by looking at Agile?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2450.315,"endTime":2453.715,"body":"No, but it all is part"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2450.315,"endTime":2453.715,"body":"of the same exercise."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2453.875,"endTime":2455.2050000000004,"body":"We do it"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2453.875,"endTime":2455.2050000000004,"body":"incrementally better."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2455.335,"endTime":2455.645,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2455.7250000000004,"endTime":2456.585,"body":"Incrementally better."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2456.695,"endTime":2458.4550000000004,"body":"We'll get the machine"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2456.695,"endTime":2458.4550000000004,"body":"that refactors itself."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2458.6850000000004,"endTime":2462.565,"body":"And yeah, then we'll be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2458.6850000000004,"endTime":2462.565,"body":"comfortably doing biotech"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2462.8050000000003,"endTime":2464.175,"body":"genetic two week sprints."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2465.9550000000004,"endTime":2467.625,"body":"Releasing a new being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2465.9550000000004,"endTime":2467.625,"body":"every two weeks."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2467.945,"endTime":2469.0350000000003,"body":"I'll go"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2467.945,"endTime":2469.0350000000003,"body":"back to my friend Gerald"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2469.0550000000003,"endTime":2471.4700000000003,"body":"Weinberg who wrote a book"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2469.0550000000003,"endTime":2471.4700000000003,"body":"years ago in the eighties"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2471.4700000000003,"endTime":2472.63,"body":"called Secrets of Consulting."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2473.0,"endTime":2475.21,"body":"And he said, if you go"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2473.0,"endTime":2475.21,"body":"into an organization and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2475.21,"endTime":2477.21,"body":"you think you're going to"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2475.21,"endTime":2477.21,"body":"change it by more than 10%,"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2477.25,"endTime":2478.1800000000003,"body":"you're fooling yourself."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2478.5400000000004,"endTime":2479.4900000000002,"body":"It's entirely fair."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2479.6600000000003,"endTime":2480.8900000000003,"body":"No, I really like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2481.19,"endTime":2483.09,"body":"Jim, this has been lovely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2483.1000000000004,"endTime":2484.98,"body":"Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2483.1000000000004,"endTime":2484.98,"body":"coming on the show."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2485.3100000000004,"endTime":2486.4900000000002,"body":"So many gems here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2486.6400000000003,"endTime":2487.88,"body":"We'd love to have you back."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2488.07,"endTime":2490.085,"body":"I know you talked about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2488.07,"endTime":2490.085,"body":"some of the framework"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2490.085,"endTime":2492.19,"body":"around this sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2490.085,"endTime":2492.19,"body":"dissatisfactions around agile."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2492.6400000000003,"endTime":2494.11,"body":"We'd love to dig more into that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2494.5400000000004,"endTime":2497.4100000000003,"body":"For now, I think we've given"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2494.5400000000004,"endTime":2497.4100000000003,"body":"our listeners a meaty chunk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2497.4100000000003,"endTime":2498.4300000000003,"body":"and I really appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2498.5800000000004,"endTime":2499.11,"body":"Well, thank you."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2499.11,"endTime":2501.75,"body":"I've enjoyed it and would"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2499.11,"endTime":2501.75,"body":"enjoy doing it again sometime."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2501.9300000000003,"endTime":2504.28,"body":"Before I let you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2501.9300000000003,"endTime":2504.28,"body":"go, your most recent book,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2504.3900000000003,"endTime":2505.36,"body":"where can people find that?"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2505.53,"endTime":2507.3,"body":"They can find"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2505.53,"endTime":2507.3,"body":"it on any of their booksellers."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2507.3,"endTime":2508.86,"body":"It's Wild West to Agile."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2509.2900000000004,"endTime":2513.6600000000003,"body":"It really is a half software"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2509.2900000000004,"endTime":2513.6600000000003,"body":"development history and"},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2513.6600000000003,"endTime":2514.7200000000003,"body":"half personal memoir."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2514.8500000000004,"endTime":2515.3700000000003,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2515.52,"endTime":2515.86,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2515.9900000000002,"endTime":2517.4100000000003,"body":"I'll include it in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2515.9900000000002,"endTime":2517.4100000000003,"body":"the show notes below."},{"speaker":"Jim Highsmith","startTime":2517.59,"endTime":2517.98,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2518.38,"endTime":2519.78,"body":"All right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2518.38,"endTime":2519.78,"body":"folks, there you have it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2520.0600000000004,"endTime":2522.2900000000004,"body":"As always, if you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2520.0600000000004,"endTime":2522.2900000000004,"body":"join the conversation with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2522.2900000000004,"endTime":2524.63,"body":"over a thousand like-minded"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2522.2900000000004,"endTime":2524.63,"body":"project management champions,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2524.8,"endTime":2525.8100000000004,"body":"come join our collective!"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2526.1800000000003,"endTime":2529.6800000000003,"body":"Head on over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2526.1800000000003,"endTime":2529.6800000000003,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com/membership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2529.75,"endTime":2530.28,"body":"to learn more."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2530.71,"endTime":2532.76,"body":"And if you like what you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2530.71,"endTime":2532.76,"body":"heard today, please subscribe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2532.78,"endTime":2535.71,"body":"and stay in touch on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2532.78,"endTime":2535.71,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2536.1800000000003,"endTime":2538.05,"body":"Until next time,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2536.1800000000003,"endTime":2538.05,"body":"thanks for listening."}]}