{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.150000000000002,"endTime":28.35,"body":"Hey folks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.150000000000002,"endTime":28.35,"body":"thanks for tuning in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.36,"endTime":30.830000000000002,"body":"My name is Galen Low with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.36,"endTime":30.830000000000002,"body":"the Digital Project Manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.04,"endTime":33.56,"body":"We are a community of digital"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.04,"endTime":33.56,"body":"professionals on a mission"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":33.56,"endTime":35.78,"body":"to help each other get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":33.56,"endTime":35.78,"body":"skilled, get confident, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":35.78,"endTime":38.519999999999996,"body":"get connected, so that we can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":35.78,"endTime":38.519999999999996,"body":"amplify the value of project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":38.540000000000006,"endTime":40.16,"body":"management in a digital world."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":40.429,"endTime":42.774,"body":"If you want to hear more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":40.429,"endTime":42.774,"body":"about that, head on over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":42.774,"endTime":45.394999999999996,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com/membership."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":46.254000000000005,"endTime":48.894999999999996,"body":"All right, today we are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":46.254000000000005,"endTime":48.894999999999996,"body":"getting into the practical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":48.894999999999996,"endTime":52.064,"body":"nitty-gritty of why people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":48.894999999999996,"endTime":52.064,"body":"working on projects — including"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":52.064,"endTime":55.454,"body":"project managers — behave"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":52.064,"endTime":55.454,"body":"the way they do, and how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":55.494,"endTime":58.664,"body":"understanding the concepts of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":55.494,"endTime":58.664,"body":"psychological safety, emotional"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":58.664,"endTime":62.405,"body":"intelligence, and co-regulation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":58.664,"endTime":62.405,"body":"can be used in real world"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":62.405,"endTime":65.815,"body":"project scenarios to achieve"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":62.405,"endTime":65.815,"body":"high-performance nirvana."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":66.11500000000001,"endTime":68.465,"body":"Joining me today is Carole"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":66.11500000000001,"endTime":68.465,"body":"Osterweil — a project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":68.465,"endTime":71.255,"body":"problem solver, executive"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":68.465,"endTime":71.255,"body":"coach, and author of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":71.255,"endTime":74.715,"body":"groundbreaking book Neuroscience"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":71.255,"endTime":74.715,"body":"for Project Success_Why"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":74.715,"endTime":76.245,"body":"People Behave as They Do."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":76.61,"endTime":78.86,"body":"Known for bringing an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":76.61,"endTime":78.86,"body":"understanding of how the human"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":78.86,"endTime":81.50999999999999,"body":"brain works to the worlds of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":78.86,"endTime":81.50999999999999,"body":"project management and business"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":81.53,"endTime":84.549,"body":"transformation, Carole's on a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":81.53,"endTime":84.549,"body":"mission to make the invisible"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":84.549,"endTime":87.429,"body":"dynamics that get in the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":84.549,"endTime":87.429,"body":"way of project delivery more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":87.43900000000001,"endTime":90.359,"body":"visible – so that we can do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":87.43900000000001,"endTime":90.359,"body":"something about them and stop"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":90.359,"endTime":91.929,"body":"sacrificing project value."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":92.249,"endTime":93.929,"body":"Carole, thanks so much"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":92.249,"endTime":93.929,"body":"for joining me today."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":94.24,"endTime":96.949,"body":"Galen, it's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":94.24,"endTime":96.949,"body":"an absolute pleasure to be here"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":96.949,"endTime":98.649,"body":"with you and your audience."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":98.759,"endTime":99.86,"body":"Thanks for the invite."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":100.35,"endTime":102.379,"body":"I've been enjoying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":100.35,"endTime":102.379,"body":"our conversation so much,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":102.379,"endTime":104.02,"body":"so for our listeners,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":102.379,"endTime":104.02,"body":"this is not the first time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":104.02,"endTime":104.839,"body":"I've talked to Carole."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":104.97,"endTime":108.03,"body":"We've been jibber jabbering"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":104.97,"endTime":108.03,"body":"about neuroscience and project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":108.03,"endTime":111.359,"body":"management and human behavior"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":108.03,"endTime":111.359,"body":"and the human brain, and she's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":111.389,"endTime":113.169,"body":"been educating me along the way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":113.199,"endTime":116.125,"body":"So I won't claim to be an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":113.199,"endTime":116.125,"body":"expert, but I am excited to just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":116.175,"endTime":119.124,"body":"dive in, because I think the way"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":116.175,"endTime":119.124,"body":"that you approach neuroscience"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":119.124,"endTime":121.175,"body":"and project management"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":119.124,"endTime":121.175,"body":"is really interesting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":121.414,"endTime":123.244,"body":"And actually, I was"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":121.414,"endTime":123.244,"body":"going to start with a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":123.244,"endTime":126.074,"body":"neuroscience question,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":123.244,"endTime":126.074,"body":"because that's often how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":126.074,"endTime":127.574,"body":"your work is described to me."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":127.754,"endTime":129.824,"body":"But instead, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":127.754,"endTime":129.824,"body":"to get your hot take on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":129.824,"endTime":131.924,"body":"something that really hits"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":129.824,"endTime":131.924,"body":"home for our listeners."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":131.94400000000002,"endTime":132.81400000000002,"body":"So, here goes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":133.135,"endTime":136.315,"body":"The most common complaint I hear"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":133.135,"endTime":136.315,"body":"from project managers is that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":136.315,"endTime":139.094,"body":"someone on their team or some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":136.315,"endTime":139.094,"body":"stakeholder on their project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":139.175,"endTime":142.574,"body":"is behaving unreasonably, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":139.175,"endTime":142.574,"body":"it's impacting their project."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":142.934,"endTime":146.184,"body":"And I guess my question is, does"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":142.934,"endTime":146.184,"body":"the PM really have any control"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":146.19400000000002,"endTime":147.865,"body":"over other people's behavior?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":147.914,"endTime":150.364,"body":"And if so, is it even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":147.914,"endTime":150.364,"body":"their responsibility?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":150.604,"endTime":151.164,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":151.325,"endTime":152.715,"body":"I love that question."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":153.044,"endTime":157.605,"body":"And my answer, Galen, is to say,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":153.044,"endTime":157.605,"body":"people always behave the way"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":157.605,"endTime":159.895,"body":"they do for really good reasons."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":160.095,"endTime":163.945,"body":"Even if nobody else, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":160.095,"endTime":163.945,"body":"even themselves, can fathom"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":163.945,"endTime":165.475,"body":"out what that reason is."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":165.915,"endTime":169.635,"body":"So you asked me, can"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":165.915,"endTime":169.635,"body":"a PM control behavior?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":169.665,"endTime":174.305,"body":"And the answer is absolutely"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":169.665,"endTime":174.305,"body":"no, but, and it's a very"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":174.305,"endTime":178.875,"body":"big BUT, they can influence"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":174.305,"endTime":178.875,"body":"it and influence it hugely."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":179.085,"endTime":182.145,"body":"There's masses that project"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":179.085,"endTime":182.145,"body":"managers can do to create"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":182.145,"endTime":185.505,"body":"an environment where they're"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":182.145,"endTime":185.505,"body":"more likely to succeed and"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":185.505,"endTime":189.305,"body":"less likely to create or"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":185.505,"endTime":189.305,"body":"encounter problematic behavior."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":189.685,"endTime":193.085,"body":"And creating that environment"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":189.685,"endTime":193.085,"body":"is the project manager's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":193.085,"endTime":195.66,"body":"responsibility, and that's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":193.085,"endTime":195.66,"body":"where I like to say the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":195.66,"endTime":196.67,"body":"neuroscience comes in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":197.225,"endTime":199.165,"body":"It's interesting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":197.225,"endTime":199.165,"body":"because as project managers,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":199.165,"endTime":201.875,"body":"we're always talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":199.165,"endTime":201.875,"body":"managing through influence and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":201.875,"endTime":206.275,"body":"usually what we mean is that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":201.875,"endTime":206.275,"body":"we are not the boss of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":206.275,"endTime":207.425,"body":"people working on the project."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":207.445,"endTime":211.165,"body":"We have no sort of formal"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":207.445,"endTime":211.165,"body":"authority as their managers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":211.165,"endTime":213.975,"body":"We are sort of like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":211.165,"endTime":213.975,"body":"tangential to their reporting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":213.975,"endTime":216.395,"body":"line and therefore we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":213.975,"endTime":216.395,"body":"need to, use our project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":216.395,"endTime":217.775,"body":"management bag of tricks."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":218.025,"endTime":220.9,"body":"It's funny you mentioned that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":218.025,"endTime":220.9,"body":"because when I hear people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":220.93,"endTime":223.49,"body":"complain about, stakeholders"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":220.93,"endTime":223.49,"body":"and team members that are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":223.49,"endTime":227.33,"body":"behaving unreasonably, usually,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":223.49,"endTime":227.33,"body":"they haven't even begun"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":227.33,"endTime":228.92,"body":"to try to influence that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":229.05,"endTime":231.04,"body":"It's almost that sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":229.05,"endTime":231.04,"body":"of knee jerk reaction."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":231.2,"endTime":233.68,"body":"Someone acting unreasonably,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":231.2,"endTime":233.68,"body":"being a perceived"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":233.68,"endTime":236.24,"body":"blocker, and everyone just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":233.68,"endTime":236.24,"body":"throwing up their hands."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":236.595,"endTime":239.235,"body":"But there are a lot of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":236.595,"endTime":239.235,"body":"things that can be done to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":239.235,"endTime":242.115,"body":"influence and problem solve"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":239.235,"endTime":242.115,"body":"and sort of get beyond that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":242.295,"endTime":246.705,"body":"Sometimes PMs don't really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":242.295,"endTime":246.705,"body":"think to do first, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":246.735,"endTime":249.285,"body":"maybe it's because it is a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":246.735,"endTime":249.285,"body":"visceral reaction, a bit of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":249.285,"endTime":251.995,"body":"an emotional reaction when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":249.285,"endTime":251.995,"body":"things don't go to plan."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":252.195,"endTime":253.345,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":252.195,"endTime":253.345,"body":"I'd agree with that."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":253.355,"endTime":255.985,"body":"And I think there's something"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":253.355,"endTime":255.985,"body":"else which is really important"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":255.985,"endTime":259.08500000000004,"body":"that I'm sure will come up again"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":255.985,"endTime":259.08500000000004,"body":"as a theme in our conversation."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":259.33500000000004,"endTime":261.505,"body":"And this doesn't only go for"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":259.33500000000004,"endTime":261.505,"body":"project managers, I think it"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":261.505,"endTime":262.71500000000003,"body":"goes for all of us though."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":262.95500000000004,"endTime":265.625,"body":"When you understand the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":262.95500000000004,"endTime":265.625,"body":"neuroscience, it suddenly"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":265.625,"endTime":269.625,"body":"becomes very clear that how"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":265.625,"endTime":269.625,"body":"you are and how you're behaving"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":269.625,"endTime":271.275,"body":"has an impact on everyone else."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":271.28499999999997,"endTime":274.315,"body":"So the problem is not only"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":271.28499999999997,"endTime":274.315,"body":"out there, other people."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":274.495,"endTime":275.105,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":275.225,"endTime":277.315,"body":"Yeah, I hope we dig into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":275.225,"endTime":277.315,"body":"that as well because it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":277.325,"endTime":280.78499999999997,"body":"such an interesting sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":277.325,"endTime":280.78499999999997,"body":"concept that seems logical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":280.79499999999996,"endTime":281.69500000000005,"body":"once you think about it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":282.01,"endTime":285.57000000000005,"body":"But I know I'm guilty of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":282.01,"endTime":285.57000000000005,"body":"absolutely thinking of, these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":285.59000000000003,"endTime":289.02,"body":"external forces out there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":285.59000000000003,"endTime":289.02,"body":"pushing on me and less of this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":289.02,"endTime":292.35,"body":"sort of dynamic, I guess, of how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":289.02,"endTime":292.35,"body":"the interplay is going between"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":292.36,"endTime":295.65,"body":"humans doing something pretty"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":292.36,"endTime":295.65,"body":"difficult under stress, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":295.65999999999997,"endTime":296.13,"body":"Projects."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":296.82000000000005,"endTime":298.71000000000004,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":296.82000000000005,"endTime":298.71000000000004,"body":"that's a very fair description."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":298.90999999999997,"endTime":300.14,"body":"Under increasing stress."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":300.76,"endTime":301.32000000000005,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":301.6,"endTime":303.08000000000004,"body":"Let's zoom out a bit"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":301.6,"endTime":303.08000000000004,"body":"and get our bearings."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":303.42499999999995,"endTime":306.375,"body":"Because neuroscience and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":303.42499999999995,"endTime":306.375,"body":"behavioral psychology"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":306.42499999999995,"endTime":309.975,"body":"are big words that can be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":306.42499999999995,"endTime":309.975,"body":"intimidating, and frankly,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":310.005,"endTime":313.375,"body":"sometimes too academic for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":310.005,"endTime":313.375,"body":"a lot of project managers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":313.495,"endTime":316.245,"body":"But for you, I think it actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":313.495,"endTime":316.245,"body":"boils down to something much"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":316.245,"endTime":319.115,"body":"less intimidating, which"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":316.245,"endTime":319.115,"body":"is, why do people working on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":319.115,"endTime":320.73,"body":"projects behave the way they do?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":321.12,"endTime":322.03999999999996,"body":"Would you agree with that?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":322.22,"endTime":323.89,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":322.22,"endTime":323.89,"body":"that's a perfect summary."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":323.91999999999996,"endTime":325.85,"body":"And I always think it's funny,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":323.91999999999996,"endTime":325.85,"body":"how long has the world of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":325.85,"endTime":327.25,"body":"project management even existed?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":327.25,"endTime":328.11,"body":"50 years?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":328.22,"endTime":330.03999999999996,"body":"And it's not a question"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":328.22,"endTime":330.03999999999996,"body":"that's been asked really"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":330.03999999999996,"endTime":331.27,"body":"seriously for very long."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":331.42999999999995,"endTime":333.40999999999997,"body":"It's true, like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":331.42999999999995,"endTime":333.40999999999997,"body":"not in a productive sense."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":333.42999999999995,"endTime":336.40999999999997,"body":"Usually I'm there, clenching my"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":333.42999999999995,"endTime":336.40999999999997,"body":"fists going, why do people on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":336.40999999999997,"endTime":337.76,"body":"projects behave the way they do?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":338.53,"endTime":341.16999999999996,"body":"That's more of an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":338.53,"endTime":341.16999999999996,"body":"existential angst than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":341.19500000000005,"endTime":341.985,"body":"it is a real question."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":341.985,"endTime":342.975,"body":"Yeah, that's right."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":342.985,"endTime":345.78499999999997,"body":"And I think that's the beauty"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":342.985,"endTime":345.78499999999997,"body":"of the neuroscience research"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":345.875,"endTime":349.46500000000003,"body":"and it coming into organizations"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":345.875,"endTime":349.46500000000003,"body":"over the last 10, 20 years."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":349.56500000000005,"endTime":352.30499999999995,"body":"In the book, one of the things"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":349.56500000000005,"endTime":352.30499999999995,"body":"I talk about is historically,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":352.30499999999995,"endTime":354.69500000000005,"body":"there's never been a model"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":352.30499999999995,"endTime":354.69500000000005,"body":"to explain it, which has"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":354.69500000000005,"endTime":355.995,"body":"been a really robust model."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":356.245,"endTime":359.005,"body":"And you wouldn't ask a doctor"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":356.245,"endTime":359.005,"body":"to do a diagnosis without"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":359.04499999999996,"endTime":361.57500000000005,"body":"understanding physiology"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":359.04499999999996,"endTime":361.57500000000005,"body":"or a translate without"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":361.57500000000005,"endTime":364.235,"body":"basic grammar, but loads of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":361.57500000000005,"endTime":364.235,"body":"projects, loads of change"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":364.235,"endTime":365.595,"body":"stuff, all influencing people."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":365.595,"endTime":367.255,"body":"And we haven't got a"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":365.595,"endTime":367.255,"body":"clue how people work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":367.375,"endTime":368.43499999999995,"body":"And it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":367.375,"endTime":368.43499999999995,"body":"funny because project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":368.43499999999995,"endTime":369.615,"body":"managers love frameworks."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":369.615,"endTime":371.80499999999995,"body":"I mean, at least the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":369.615,"endTime":371.80499999999995,"body":"circles I travel in, right?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":371.80499999999995,"endTime":372.155,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":372.155,"endTime":374.21500000000003,"body":"But I don't think there"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":372.155,"endTime":374.21500000000003,"body":"has been one in the world"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":374.21500000000003,"endTime":375.265,"body":"of project management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":375.42499999999995,"endTime":377.45500000000004,"body":"Maybe that's a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":375.42499999999995,"endTime":377.45500000000004,"body":"great time to just dive in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":377.53499999999997,"endTime":379.16499999999996,"body":"I've pored through some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":377.53499999999997,"endTime":379.16499999999996,"body":"of your material and I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":379.16499999999996,"endTime":379.94500000000005,"body":"love the way you frame it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":379.94500000000005,"endTime":381.755,"body":"I was just wondering if"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":379.94500000000005,"endTime":381.755,"body":"you could just explain"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":381.755,"endTime":383.83500000000004,"body":"some of the core concepts"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":381.755,"endTime":383.83500000000004,"body":"of neuroscience and human"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":383.83500000000004,"endTime":386.765,"body":"behavior for our listeners,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":383.83500000000004,"endTime":386.765,"body":"because I'm already an expert."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":386.765,"endTime":388.67499999999995,"body":"I just want our listeners"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":386.765,"endTime":388.67499999999995,"body":"to get up to speed."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":389.69500000000005,"endTime":391.43499999999995,"body":"And I'm"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":389.69500000000005,"endTime":391.43499999999995,"body":"putting a big disclaimer on it."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":391.46500000000003,"endTime":393.845,"body":"I'm not a neuroscientist"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":391.46500000000003,"endTime":393.845,"body":"and I don't pretend to be."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":393.885,"endTime":394.225,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":394.355,"endTime":395.19500000000005,"body":"I've read a lot though."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":395.235,"endTime":397.58500000000004,"body":"And this seems to make"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":395.235,"endTime":397.58500000000004,"body":"sense to people that I"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":397.635,"endTime":400.025,"body":"discuss it with and the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":397.635,"endTime":400.025,"body":"people that I'm coaching."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":400.025,"endTime":400.755,"body":"So, there we go."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":400.82500000000005,"endTime":403.91499999999996,"body":"I think the starting point is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":400.82500000000005,"endTime":403.91499999999996,"body":"to say that we are wired as all"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":403.93499999999995,"endTime":405.855,"body":"humans are wired for survival."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":406.025,"endTime":408.125,"body":"And that really means"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":406.025,"endTime":408.125,"body":"that our brain and nervous"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":408.135,"endTime":411.245,"body":"system are working together"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":408.135,"endTime":411.245,"body":"all of the time below our"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":411.245,"endTime":412.405,"body":"level of consciousness."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":412.505,"endTime":415.21500000000003,"body":"And what they're essentially"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":412.505,"endTime":415.21500000000003,"body":"doing is trying to keep us safe."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":415.58000000000004,"endTime":416.45000000000005,"body":"So they're looking out."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":416.45000000000005,"endTime":417.70000000000005,"body":"We don't notice it happening."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":417.77,"endTime":420.92999999999995,"body":"We're taking in information"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":417.77,"endTime":420.92999999999995,"body":"externally through our five"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":420.92999999999995,"endTime":423.77,"body":"senses, but also through"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":420.92999999999995,"endTime":423.77,"body":"our physical reactions."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":423.94000000000005,"endTime":426.49,"body":"So I bet you can think of a"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":423.94000000000005,"endTime":426.49,"body":"time when your stomach got"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":426.55999999999995,"endTime":429.65999999999997,"body":"in a knot, and I can think of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":426.55999999999995,"endTime":429.65999999999997,"body":"the 30 seconds before we got"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":429.66999999999996,"endTime":432.54499999999996,"body":"online to do this recording"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":429.66999999999996,"endTime":432.54499999999996,"body":"when I couldn't get the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":432.54499999999996,"endTime":435.66499999999996,"body":"delightful studio to work and"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":432.54499999999996,"endTime":435.66499999999996,"body":"my kind of pulse rate had gone"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":435.66499999999996,"endTime":436.635,"body":"up, and you were laughing."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":436.635,"endTime":438.005,"body":"It was not so funny"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":436.635,"endTime":438.005,"body":"at this stage."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":439.56500000000005,"endTime":440.82500000000005,"body":"I was flashing red."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":440.865,"endTime":442.775,"body":"I was like, Oh, my"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":440.865,"endTime":442.775,"body":"heart rate's gone up."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":442.78499999999997,"endTime":443.54499999999996,"body":"Will it happen?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":443.54499999999996,"endTime":444.345,"body":"Won't it happen?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":444.43499999999995,"endTime":446.94500000000005,"body":"Now that's the stress"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":444.43499999999995,"endTime":446.94500000000005,"body":"response in action."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":447.06500000000005,"endTime":449.91499999999996,"body":"And that's what"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":447.06500000000005,"endTime":449.91499999999996,"body":"drives our behavior."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":450.015,"endTime":452.855,"body":"And I think we're really"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":450.015,"endTime":452.855,"body":"schooled to recognize a stress"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":452.855,"endTime":456.95500000000004,"body":"and survival response can be"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":452.855,"endTime":456.95500000000004,"body":"evoked if a car comes towards"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":456.95500000000004,"endTime":458.44500000000005,"body":"us or if the building's on fire."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":458.67499999999995,"endTime":461.845,"body":"But the curious thing about"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":458.67499999999995,"endTime":461.845,"body":"humans is we are not only wired"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":461.855,"endTime":466.845,"body":"to avoid stress and threats,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":461.855,"endTime":466.845,"body":"but we're also wired to be"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":466.845,"endTime":469.68499999999995,"body":"social creatures and want to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":466.845,"endTime":469.68499999999995,"body":"get close to other people."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":469.885,"endTime":472.725,"body":"And the human brain does not"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":469.885,"endTime":472.725,"body":"distinguish between physical"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":472.725,"endTime":474.255,"body":"threat and social threat."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":474.70000000000005,"endTime":477.65999999999997,"body":"So if things are going on in"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":474.70000000000005,"endTime":477.65999999999997,"body":"your organization, if somebody"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":477.65999999999997,"endTime":479.92999999999995,"body":"bulls you out in a meeting or"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":477.65999999999997,"endTime":479.92999999999995,"body":"they did last time you were"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":479.92999999999995,"endTime":482.33000000000004,"body":"there, someone, you've made"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":479.92999999999995,"endTime":482.33000000000004,"body":"a promise to someone where"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":482.33000000000004,"endTime":484.79999999999995,"body":"you can't deliver on it, all"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":482.33000000000004,"endTime":484.79999999999995,"body":"that kind of stuff is all"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":484.79999999999995,"endTime":487.66999999999996,"body":"the stuff that winds us up"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":484.79999999999995,"endTime":487.66999999999996,"body":"and evokes a stress response."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":487.76,"endTime":490.61,"body":"And in the book, I talk about"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":487.76,"endTime":490.61,"body":"a very neat little framework,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":490.64,"endTime":493.03,"body":"which is a framework from"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":490.64,"endTime":493.03,"body":"a chap called Dan Siegel."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":493.15999999999997,"endTime":496.14,"body":"And Dan Siegel, if you look"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":493.15999999999997,"endTime":496.14,"body":"him up, is really well-known in"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":496.14,"endTime":497.63,"body":"the world that knows about him."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":497.70000000000005,"endTime":499.70000000000005,"body":"Many of you Google listeners"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":497.70000000000005,"endTime":499.70000000000005,"body":"will have heard of Daniel"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":499.71000000000004,"endTime":502.58000000000004,"body":"Goleman, though, who does the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":499.71000000000004,"endTime":502.58000000000004,"body":"Emotional Intelligence and I"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":502.59000000000003,"endTime":503.87,"body":"like to say they're best mates."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":503.87,"endTime":504.92999999999995,"body":"They do work together."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":505.1,"endTime":509.32000000000005,"body":"And essentially, what Dan Siegel"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":505.1,"endTime":509.32000000000005,"body":"says is there's times when"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":509.32000000000005,"endTime":512.72,"body":"we're really relaxed and calm"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":509.32000000000005,"endTime":512.72,"body":"and we think really clearly"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":512.92,"endTime":514.25,"body":"and we behave really well."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":514.25,"endTime":517.36,"body":"And he would say that's when our"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":514.25,"endTime":517.36,"body":"thinking brain is really online."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":517.67,"endTime":520.62,"body":"Once we start to evoke a"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":517.67,"endTime":520.62,"body":"stress response in ourselves,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":520.62,"endTime":523.39,"body":"or something happens that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":520.62,"endTime":523.39,"body":"evokes a stress response,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":523.56,"endTime":526.08,"body":"then it starts to take our"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":523.56,"endTime":526.08,"body":"thinking brain offline."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":526.34,"endTime":530.0,"body":"So the thinking brain can be"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":526.34,"endTime":530.0,"body":"online or offline, and varying"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":530.0,"endTime":533.0,"body":"degrees in between, depending"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":530.0,"endTime":533.0,"body":"how big that threat is."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":533.24,"endTime":535.4599999999999,"body":"The kind of behaviors that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":533.24,"endTime":535.4599999999999,"body":"which go with your thinking"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":535.47,"endTime":538.12,"body":"brain being offline is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":535.47,"endTime":538.12,"body":"things like when people"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":538.12,"endTime":538.99,"body":"get really defensive."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":539.5649999999999,"endTime":542.235,"body":"They get really angry, they"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":539.5649999999999,"endTime":542.235,"body":"go on the attack, they get"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":542.235,"endTime":545.185,"body":"frozen and paralyzed, or they"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":542.235,"endTime":545.185,"body":"absolutely want to withdraw or"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":545.1949999999999,"endTime":546.755,"body":"do withdraw from the situation."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":546.915,"endTime":548.475,"body":"We've never seen any"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":546.915,"endTime":548.475,"body":"of that happening on"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":548.475,"endTime":550.624,"body":"projects, of course."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":550.625,"endTime":553.545,"body":"The other side of it is when"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":550.625,"endTime":553.545,"body":"our thinking brain is completely"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":553.615,"endTime":557.665,"body":"online, the kind of behaviors"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":553.615,"endTime":557.665,"body":"which go with that, we can be"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":557.6949999999999,"endTime":561.495,"body":"really creative, learn really"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":557.6949999999999,"endTime":561.495,"body":"well, collaborate really"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":561.495,"endTime":565.135,"body":"well, be inspired, inspiring,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":561.495,"endTime":565.135,"body":"motivated, and do all those"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":565.135,"endTime":567.675,"body":"things we're meant to do all"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":565.135,"endTime":567.675,"body":"day long on project work."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":567.9449999999999,"endTime":570.985,"body":"So there's an underlying"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":567.9449999999999,"endTime":570.985,"body":"assumption that in the world of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":570.985,"endTime":575.015,"body":"work, everybody's thinking brain"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":570.985,"endTime":575.015,"body":"is online 100% of the time."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":575.505,"endTime":576.245,"body":"And you laugh."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":576.5749999999999,"endTime":578.225,"body":"I'm laughing because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":576.5749999999999,"endTime":578.225,"body":"in my head I'm thinking some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":578.225,"endTime":580.375,"body":"listeners are like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":578.225,"endTime":580.375,"body":"think my thinking brain has"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":580.375,"endTime":582.255,"body":"been online on any project."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":583.545,"endTime":584.755,"body":"Well, it's just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":583.545,"endTime":584.755,"body":"that stress, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":584.755,"endTime":586.365,"body":"I mean, I'm of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":584.755,"endTime":586.365,"body":"thinking brain offline."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":586.5649999999999,"endTime":588.175,"body":"Could we equate it to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":586.5649999999999,"endTime":588.175,"body":"like fight or flight?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":588.375,"endTime":589.515,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":589.5649999999999,"endTime":591.985,"body":"I'm talking about your"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":589.5649999999999,"endTime":591.985,"body":"fight or flight response,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":591.985,"endTime":593.254,"body":"the varying degrees of it."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":593.655,"endTime":596.725,"body":"So that fight or flight"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":593.655,"endTime":596.725,"body":"response, and essentially"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":596.725,"endTime":599.125,"body":"that actually starts with a"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":596.725,"endTime":599.125,"body":"physical response, bit like"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":599.125,"endTime":600.305,"body":"me before this recording."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":600.3349999999999,"endTime":600.5649999999999,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":600.5649999999999,"endTime":604.5749999999999,"body":"Your body goes into overdrive"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":600.5649999999999,"endTime":604.5749999999999,"body":"about something and that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":604.5749999999999,"endTime":607.765,"body":"evokes a kind of emotional"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":604.5749999999999,"endTime":607.765,"body":"response and those emotions,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":607.765,"endTime":610.745,"body":"whether that's fear or anger"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":607.765,"endTime":610.745,"body":"or shame or disgust, if"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":610.745,"endTime":613.855,"body":"it's an avoidance or threat"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":610.745,"endTime":613.855,"body":"response or any combination"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":613.855,"endTime":615.365,"body":"of those and other emotions."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":615.365,"endTime":617.1949999999999,"body":"We're really complicated,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":615.365,"endTime":617.1949999999999,"body":"but we don't have to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":617.1949999999999,"endTime":618.475,"body":"worry about that too much."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":618.595,"endTime":621.515,"body":"We'll start, lead to behaviors,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":618.595,"endTime":621.515,"body":"which would be those fight"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":621.515,"endTime":623.895,"body":"and flight behaviors, the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":621.515,"endTime":623.895,"body":"ones I described before."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":623.925,"endTime":624.225,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":624.595,"endTime":625.515,"body":"Let me"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":624.595,"endTime":625.515,"body":"ask you a question."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":625.625,"endTime":628.3249999999999,"body":"You're a thinking brain,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":625.625,"endTime":628.3249999999999,"body":"sort of signing on to this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":628.3249999999999,"endTime":632.055,"body":"podcast, a thinking brain kind"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":628.3249999999999,"endTime":632.055,"body":"of offline, but you got here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":632.125,"endTime":633.9549999999999,"body":"Did you feel like your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":632.125,"endTime":633.9549999999999,"body":"thinking brain offline"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":633.9649999999999,"endTime":635.275,"body":"actually helped push you?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":635.5749999999999,"endTime":638.375,"body":"No, not at all."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":638.8349999999999,"endTime":642.005,"body":"Well, I thought I would"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":638.8349999999999,"endTime":642.005,"body":"say is what happens is if"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":642.005,"endTime":645.515,"body":"we go into a very strong"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":642.005,"endTime":645.515,"body":"avoidance response, we get"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":645.525,"endTime":648.915,"body":"a really tunnel vision, very"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":645.525,"endTime":648.915,"body":"narrow vision and everything"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":648.925,"endTime":650.505,"body":"becomes about survival."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":650.7149999999999,"endTime":653.165,"body":"And that stops us seeing"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":650.7149999999999,"endTime":653.165,"body":"the bigger picture of what's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":653.165,"endTime":654.655,"body":"actually happening around us."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":654.655,"endTime":656.9449999999999,"body":"Now I suppose I have the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":654.655,"endTime":656.9449999999999,"body":"language because I've"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":656.9449999999999,"endTime":658.9449999999999,"body":"been studying it for"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":656.9449999999999,"endTime":658.9449999999999,"body":"years and learning to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":659.185,"endTime":660.8349999999999,"body":"regulate myself a bit."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":660.905,"endTime":662.665,"body":"So I, at least I knew"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":660.905,"endTime":662.665,"body":"what was happening."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":663.245,"endTime":666.175,"body":"And I knew I had to do various"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":663.245,"endTime":666.175,"body":"things to pacify myself"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":666.175,"endTime":668.995,"body":"and hopefully to pacify you"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":666.175,"endTime":668.995,"body":"way across the ocean there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":670.7049999999999,"endTime":673.105,"body":"I like the word"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":670.7049999999999,"endTime":673.105,"body":"narrow focused because, in a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":673.105,"endTime":676.9649999999999,"body":"way, we're thinking of, getting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":673.105,"endTime":676.9649999999999,"body":"the task at hand done, to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":676.9649999999999,"endTime":681.265,"body":"survive that project task, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":676.9649999999999,"endTime":681.265,"body":"guess, to survive that deadline."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":681.4449999999999,"endTime":683.3249999999999,"body":"But, a lot of the time when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":681.4449999999999,"endTime":683.3249999999999,"body":"we're complaining about our"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":683.3249999999999,"endTime":685.485,"body":"projects, we're complaining that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":683.3249999999999,"endTime":685.485,"body":"people aren't seeing the bigger"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":685.485,"endTime":687.615,"body":"picture, like people don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":685.485,"endTime":687.615,"body":"understand why we're doing this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":687.615,"endTime":690.125,"body":"People aren't, looking broad"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":687.615,"endTime":690.125,"body":"and wide, they're sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":690.125,"endTime":692.255,"body":"looking narrowly in their silo."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":692.415,"endTime":694.245,"body":"I'm thinking about what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":692.415,"endTime":694.245,"body":"you're saying about sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":694.245,"endTime":696.235,"body":"of psychological safety"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":694.245,"endTime":696.235,"body":"and this sort of fight"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":696.235,"endTime":697.0649999999999,"body":"or flight response."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":697.305,"endTime":699.555,"body":"And I'd hazard to say that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":697.305,"endTime":699.555,"body":"some project managers that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":699.555,"endTime":701.675,"body":"are listening to this would"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":699.555,"endTime":701.675,"body":"say that they work very"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":701.675,"endTime":704.475,"body":"hard to create psychological"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":701.675,"endTime":704.475,"body":"safety in their projects."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":704.925,"endTime":707.775,"body":"But secretly, they know that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":704.925,"endTime":707.775,"body":"they are sometimes that wild"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":707.775,"endTime":710.645,"body":"animal that instills fear, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":707.775,"endTime":710.645,"body":"that triggers that fight or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":710.645,"endTime":712.025,"body":"flight response from their team."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":712.0749999999999,"endTime":713.885,"body":"Sometimes accidentally,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":712.0749999999999,"endTime":713.885,"body":"and sometimes not."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":714.0649999999999,"endTime":715.4549999999999,"body":"And maybe I'm actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":714.0649999999999,"endTime":715.4549999999999,"body":"one of those people."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":716.015,"endTime":718.555,"body":"So, like, the folks who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":716.015,"endTime":718.555,"body":"are doing that, like, are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":718.555,"endTime":720.9839999999999,"body":"we terrible and flawed"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":718.555,"endTime":720.9839999999999,"body":"people for doing that?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":720.985,"endTime":722.805,"body":"For triggering that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":720.985,"endTime":722.805,"body":"response in our projects?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":722.9449999999999,"endTime":724.404,"body":"There's a"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":722.9449999999999,"endTime":724.404,"body":"bit of me that wants to go yes,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":724.405,"endTime":726.095,"body":"but actually the answer is no."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":727.1949999999999,"endTime":728.9549999999999,"body":"I want to say, no, you're human."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":729.1899999999999,"endTime":732.42,"body":"I don't believe it's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":729.1899999999999,"endTime":732.42,"body":"realistic to expect anyone"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":732.43,"endTime":735.7099999999999,"body":"to have their thinking brain"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":732.43,"endTime":735.7099999999999,"body":"online 100% of the time."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":736.12,"endTime":737.88,"body":"I just, I don't"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":736.12,"endTime":737.88,"body":"think it happens."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":738.17,"endTime":743.11,"body":"But I think there's a lot we"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":738.17,"endTime":743.11,"body":"can do to learn how to judge"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":743.35,"endTime":746.77,"body":"how we're feeling, what's going"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":743.35,"endTime":746.77,"body":"on for us at any one time."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":746.81,"endTime":750.1949999999999,"body":"And then when our thinking brain"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":746.81,"endTime":750.1949999999999,"body":"is not online, well, not as long"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":750.1949999999999,"endTime":753.485,"body":"line as it could be to actually"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":750.1949999999999,"endTime":753.485,"body":"do something about that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":753.7149999999999,"endTime":755.8349999999999,"body":"I like that sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":753.7149999999999,"endTime":755.8349999999999,"body":"of expectations management"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":755.865,"endTime":760.125,"body":"of like, this is not 100% one"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":755.865,"endTime":760.125,"body":"way and 100% the other way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":760.125,"endTime":762.615,"body":"It's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":760.125,"endTime":762.615,"body":"good or bad."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":762.845,"endTime":766.775,"body":"It is more of a reality of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":762.845,"endTime":766.775,"body":"just how we're wired as humans."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":767.165,"endTime":769.5649999999999,"body":"I mean, survival instinct,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":767.165,"endTime":769.5649999999999,"body":"a very good thing, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":769.605,"endTime":771.9449999999999,"body":"It's a very good thing to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":769.605,"endTime":771.9449999999999,"body":"have versus the alternative."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":772.795,"endTime":773.765,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":773.8149999999999,"endTime":776.2049999999999,"body":"And, but I think what's very"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":773.8149999999999,"endTime":776.2049999999999,"body":"interesting is the world that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":776.2049999999999,"endTime":780.665,"body":"we operate in today has so"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":776.2049999999999,"endTime":780.665,"body":"much more uncertainty than it"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":780.665,"endTime":783.775,"body":"did 10 years ago, I would say."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":783.8149999999999,"endTime":786.725,"body":"And the expectations in"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":783.8149999999999,"endTime":786.725,"body":"terms of delivery and the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":786.725,"endTime":789.665,"body":"pace of delivery are so,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":786.725,"endTime":789.665,"body":"I wouldn't say higher,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":789.775,"endTime":790.885,"body":"but I want to say higher."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":790.995,"endTime":793.155,"body":"There's something about,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":790.995,"endTime":793.155,"body":"we're less and less realistic"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":793.155,"endTime":795.2049999999999,"body":"about the expectations"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":793.155,"endTime":795.2049999999999,"body":"we put on people."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":795.515,"endTime":800.5649999999999,"body":"And that in itself creates too"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":795.515,"endTime":800.5649999999999,"body":"much stress for people to be"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":800.5649999999999,"endTime":801.935,"body":"able to perform really well."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":802.285,"endTime":804.925,"body":"And so that thing about"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":802.285,"endTime":804.925,"body":"knowing as a project manager"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":804.925,"endTime":809.0749999999999,"body":"that you need to create the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":804.925,"endTime":809.0749999999999,"body":"psychological safety and help"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":809.0849999999999,"endTime":811.995,"body":"people find an environment"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":809.0849999999999,"endTime":811.995,"body":"where we're containing the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":811.995,"endTime":814.905,"body":"stress to keep it to the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":811.995,"endTime":814.905,"body":"level where we perform well."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":815.135,"endTime":817.685,"body":"And I'm not saying we don't"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":815.135,"endTime":817.685,"body":"need any stress to perform"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":817.725,"endTime":818.645,"body":"because we need some."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":818.925,"endTime":821.375,"body":"But when there's too much"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":818.925,"endTime":821.375,"body":"of it around, we go into"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":821.385,"endTime":824.165,"body":"overwhelm and overdrive and"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":821.385,"endTime":824.165,"body":"then our performance drops off."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":824.435,"endTime":826.015,"body":"That's actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":824.435,"endTime":826.015,"body":"really interesting that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":826.105,"endTime":828.935,"body":"the stress floor starts"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":826.105,"endTime":828.935,"body":"higher these days."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":828.975,"endTime":831.275,"body":"And I guess arguably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":828.975,"endTime":831.275,"body":"different projects have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":831.275,"endTime":832.535,"body":"a higher stress floor."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":832.545,"endTime":835.515,"body":"And as you're saying about that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":832.545,"endTime":835.515,"body":"ambiguity and uncertainty, I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":835.515,"endTime":838.675,"body":"thinking of, those projects that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":835.515,"endTime":838.675,"body":"we've probably all been on where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":838.675,"endTime":841.7149999999999,"body":"there is like a high degree"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":838.675,"endTime":841.7149999999999,"body":"of ambiguity and uncertainty,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":841.885,"endTime":843.805,"body":"and it starts off being more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":841.885,"endTime":843.805,"body":"stressful and your team's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":843.805,"endTime":846.125,"body":"already like, Oh, we don't even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":843.805,"endTime":846.125,"body":"know, this or that, or we don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":846.125,"endTime":846.9549999999999,"body":"even know what we're building."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":846.9549999999999,"endTime":849.0649999999999,"body":"We don't even, and that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":846.9549999999999,"endTime":849.0649999999999,"body":"stress level, the floor of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":849.0649999999999,"endTime":850.245,"body":"the stress is already high."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":850.4649999999999,"endTime":853.995,"body":"And then, yeah, to add on to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":850.4649999999999,"endTime":853.995,"body":"that, it can have, varying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":853.995,"endTime":857.2149999999999,"body":"effects versus a project that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":853.995,"endTime":857.2149999999999,"body":"started quite calm and certain."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":857.375,"endTime":858.725,"body":"And then, you could"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":857.375,"endTime":858.725,"body":"stack on a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":858.725,"endTime":859.8249999999999,"body":"stress a little bit more."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":860.105,"endTime":861.345,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":860.105,"endTime":861.345,"body":"I'd absolutely agree."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":861.355,"endTime":863.025,"body":"And I talk a lot about"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":861.355,"endTime":863.025,"body":"that in the book."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":863.2149999999999,"endTime":865.045,"body":"And there's something"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":863.2149999999999,"endTime":865.045,"body":"about knowing what kind of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":865.045,"endTime":866.265,"body":"project we're working on."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":866.475,"endTime":868.905,"body":"Because I think often what"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":866.475,"endTime":868.905,"body":"happens is we work on very"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":868.905,"endTime":871.225,"body":"ambiguous ones, but people"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":868.905,"endTime":871.225,"body":"are pretending because"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":871.225,"endTime":873.045,"body":"they're more comfortable"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":871.225,"endTime":873.045,"body":"that they're not ambiguous."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":873.645,"endTime":874.655,"body":"Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":874.655,"endTime":877.095,"body":"And that itself is stress"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":874.655,"endTime":877.095,"body":"inducing and has a very"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":877.095,"endTime":879.405,"body":"difficult kind of language"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":877.095,"endTime":879.405,"body":"associated with it."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":879.62,"endTime":881.81,"body":"Whereas if you know at"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":879.62,"endTime":881.81,"body":"the outset, yeah, this"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":881.81,"endTime":882.9599999999999,"body":"is going to be difficult."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":883.16,"endTime":885.63,"body":"In the book, I talk about this"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":883.16,"endTime":885.63,"body":"is a project where we're walking"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":885.63,"endTime":888.79,"body":"in fog here that requires a"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":885.63,"endTime":888.79,"body":"completely different approach"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":889.36,"endTime":891.61,"body":"to one where you know exactly"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":889.36,"endTime":891.61,"body":"what's going to be happening"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":891.61,"endTime":892.76,"body":"and just sorting stuff in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":893.23,"endTime":895.4599999999999,"body":"And it's funny"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":893.23,"endTime":895.4599999999999,"body":"because even just the art"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":895.49,"endTime":898.55,"body":"of project management is in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":895.49,"endTime":898.55,"body":"some ways, crystal balling"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":898.55,"endTime":899.74,"body":"your way into the future."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":899.91,"endTime":902.2289999999999,"body":"Like, you're expected"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":899.91,"endTime":902.2289999999999,"body":"to have a map because of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":902.2389999999999,"endTime":903.5,"body":"folks who want certainty."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":903.65,"endTime":906.81,"body":"You're usually the one who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":903.65,"endTime":906.81,"body":"has created a map, even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":906.81,"endTime":907.92,"body":"though you know it's wrong."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":908.5699999999999,"endTime":911.28,"body":"But you needed to sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":908.5699999999999,"endTime":911.28,"body":"answer the mail on creating"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":911.28,"endTime":913.6999999999999,"body":"some predictability and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":911.28,"endTime":913.6999999999999,"body":"certainty, even though,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":913.7099999999999,"endTime":914.9599999999999,"body":"yeah, it's all fog walking."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":914.98,"endTime":915.4,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":915.735,"endTime":916.395,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":916.505,"endTime":917.485,"body":"And it comes back."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":917.485,"endTime":920.0849999999999,"body":"I think what's really"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":917.485,"endTime":920.0849999999999,"body":"interesting with that is there"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":920.0849999999999,"endTime":922.755,"body":"is something about when you"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":920.0849999999999,"endTime":922.755,"body":"understand the neuroscience,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":922.8249999999999,"endTime":926.425,"body":"coming back to that idea and"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":922.8249999999999,"endTime":926.425,"body":"the notion of if I can keep"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":926.435,"endTime":930.3439999999999,"body":"my thinking brain online here"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":926.435,"endTime":930.3439999999999,"body":"and I can acknowledge the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":930.345,"endTime":933.384,"body":"reality that we're dealing"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":930.345,"endTime":933.384,"body":"with, we are walking in fog."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":933.6949999999999,"endTime":936.8249999999999,"body":"Which means it will be"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":933.6949999999999,"endTime":936.8249999999999,"body":"uncertain, but I know enough"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":936.8349999999999,"endTime":941.385,"body":"about how to be navigating"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":936.8349999999999,"endTime":941.385,"body":"this and how to be containing"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":941.385,"endTime":944.2149999999999,"body":"that kind of anxiety and the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":941.385,"endTime":944.2149999999999,"body":"worries of everyone else and"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":944.2149999999999,"endTime":947.185,"body":"the stress levels that we can"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":944.2149999999999,"endTime":947.185,"body":"do it constructively, that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":947.185,"endTime":948.665,"body":"it can be very reassuring."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":948.98,"endTime":952.22,"body":"If you get caught the other way"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":948.98,"endTime":952.22,"body":"and succumb to people who are in"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":952.22,"endTime":955.37,"body":"bigger and bigger panics, then"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":952.22,"endTime":955.37,"body":"it creates a bigger and bigger"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":955.37,"endTime":957.38,"body":"mess, if that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":957.41,"endTime":957.8199999999999,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":958.81,"endTime":959.5799999999999,"body":"No, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":959.5799999999999,"endTime":962.37,"body":"It's one of those sort of je ne"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":959.5799999999999,"endTime":962.37,"body":"sais quoi leadership qualities"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":962.37,"endTime":966.635,"body":"that, we recognize but, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":962.37,"endTime":966.635,"body":"mean, I've never received any"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":966.635,"endTime":970.675,"body":"formal training on it in terms"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":966.635,"endTime":970.675,"body":"of, yeah, just managing the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":970.685,"endTime":973.805,"body":"sort of panic around you and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":970.685,"endTime":973.805,"body":"not catching it and letting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":973.805,"endTime":974.885,"body":"it spread even further."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":975.055,"endTime":977.475,"body":"Yeah, I would"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":975.055,"endTime":977.475,"body":"venture to guess there's very"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":977.475,"endTime":980.5749999999999,"body":"few people who have received"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":977.475,"endTime":980.5749999999999,"body":"formal training on it because"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":980.5749999999999,"endTime":982.635,"body":"I think it's quite a new idea."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":982.765,"endTime":983.345,"body":"Fair."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":983.5649999999999,"endTime":984.9649999999999,"body":"I've been,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":983.5649999999999,"endTime":984.9649999999999,"body":"I know it's stuff that I've"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":984.9649999999999,"endTime":986.925,"body":"been talking about probably"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":984.9649999999999,"endTime":986.925,"body":"for about five years."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":987.5799999999999,"endTime":989.13,"body":"Maybe I need to give"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":987.5799999999999,"endTime":989.13,"body":"you a training program."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":989.13,"endTime":990.38,"body":"I'll design one for you, Galen."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":990.93,"endTime":993.51,"body":"Wow, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":990.93,"endTime":993.51,"body":"would love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":993.51,"endTime":996.1999999999999,"body":"You know, maybe we can give our"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":993.51,"endTime":996.1999999999999,"body":"listeners a treat and start some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":996.1999999999999,"endTime":999.3399999999999,"body":"of that right now and just shift"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":996.1999999999999,"endTime":999.3399999999999,"body":"this into some practical stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":999.5,"endTime":1001.89,"body":"And, as a sort of teaser for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":999.5,"endTime":1001.89,"body":"our listeners, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1001.939,"endTime":1002.9599999999999,"body":"go through some practical stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1003.1899999999999,"endTime":1005.5799999999999,"body":"And then I've got a little"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1003.1899999999999,"endTime":1005.5799999999999,"body":"fun bits that Carole put a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1005.5799999999999,"endTime":1007.98,"body":"fun twist on, where we're just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1005.5799999999999,"endTime":1007.98,"body":"going to go through some actual"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1007.98,"endTime":1009.26,"body":"scenarios and talk them through."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1009.28,"endTime":1011.53,"body":"So, if you're like me and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1009.28,"endTime":1011.53,"body":"you've never received any formal"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1011.53,"endTime":1015.06,"body":"training on not panicking,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1011.53,"endTime":1015.06,"body":"not spreading panic, reading"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1015.06,"endTime":1017.65,"body":"Douglas Adams books then"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1015.06,"endTime":1017.65,"body":"well, we're going to dive in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1017.91,"endTime":1020.25,"body":"Because you were talking,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1017.91,"endTime":1020.25,"body":"Carole, about the sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1020.43,"endTime":1023.63,"body":"thinking brain coming offline"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1020.43,"endTime":1023.63,"body":"and sort of what we can do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1023.64,"endTime":1025.01,"body":"to bring it back online."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1025.23,"endTime":1027.66,"body":"And I was wondering, like, could"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1025.23,"endTime":1027.66,"body":"you give a few examples of real"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1027.66,"endTime":1030.38,"body":"world project scenarios that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1027.66,"endTime":1030.38,"body":"can take a project manager's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1030.38,"endTime":1031.45,"body":"thinking brain offline?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1031.71,"endTime":1034.6100000000001,"body":"And maybe also what are some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1031.71,"endTime":1034.6100000000001,"body":"strategies that they could use"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1034.65,"endTime":1037.69,"body":"to get their thinking brain back"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1034.65,"endTime":1037.69,"body":"online so that they're able to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1037.69,"endTime":1039.03,"body":"make better decisions again?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1039.48,"endTime":1041.1200000000001,"body":"I'm not"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1039.48,"endTime":1041.1200000000001,"body":"going to give you examples."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1041.1200000000001,"endTime":1042.38,"body":"I'm resisting this one."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1043.67,"endTime":1044.94,"body":"Teach you to read"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1043.67,"endTime":1044.94,"body":"your brief better."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1044.94,"endTime":1045.6200000000001,"body":"No, I'm guilty."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1045.6200000000001,"endTime":1045.93,"body":"I'm joking."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1047.3,"endTime":1051.6499999999999,"body":"What I will say though, is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1047.3,"endTime":1051.6499999999999,"body":"for you Galen and everybody"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1051.6499999999999,"endTime":1056.94,"body":"listening, just think back"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1051.6499999999999,"endTime":1056.94,"body":"to the most recent time"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1057.09,"endTime":1060.86,"body":"when you felt that you were"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1057.09,"endTime":1060.86,"body":"put on the spot by anyone"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1061.02,"endTime":1062.34,"body":"related to your project."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1062.68,"endTime":1065.71,"body":"Or when you know you were not"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1062.68,"endTime":1065.71,"body":"being as rational as you could"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1065.71,"endTime":1069.29,"body":"have been, or when you suspect"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1065.71,"endTime":1069.29,"body":"your behavior was not quite"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1069.29,"endTime":1072.25,"body":"what you'd have liked or your"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1069.29,"endTime":1072.25,"body":"decision making not as clear."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1072.73,"endTime":1074.31,"body":"I'm guessing you're"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1072.73,"endTime":1074.31,"body":"nodding your heads then."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1074.34,"endTime":1075.11,"body":"I certainly am."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1075.645,"endTime":1076.0049999999999,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1076.0049999999999,"endTime":1077.5149999999999,"body":"So give us some examples then."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1078.0249999999999,"endTime":1079.455,"body":"What comes to mind for you?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1080.035,"endTime":1082.185,"body":"I remember I was on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1080.035,"endTime":1082.185,"body":"a project, this is some time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1082.185,"endTime":1086.5249999999999,"body":"ago and I was presenting it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1082.185,"endTime":1086.5249999999999,"body":"to our leadership and I knew"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1086.5249999999999,"endTime":1090.085,"body":"I was going to get questioned"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1086.5249999999999,"endTime":1090.085,"body":"about this particular stream"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1090.195,"endTime":1093.895,"body":"of project activities that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1090.195,"endTime":1093.895,"body":"were sort of not deemed as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1093.895,"endTime":1096.875,"body":"high value and I sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1093.895,"endTime":1096.875,"body":"saw it as being strategic"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1096.875,"endTime":1099.815,"body":"for, the overall stakeholder"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1096.875,"endTime":1099.815,"body":"and client relationship."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1100.135,"endTime":1103.435,"body":"And I think I was already on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1100.135,"endTime":1103.435,"body":"edge because I knew that I would"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1103.435,"endTime":1105.095,"body":"get called out on it, and I did."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1105.095,"endTime":1109.295,"body":"Our CEO kind of called me out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1105.095,"endTime":1109.295,"body":"on it, and it was related to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1109.295,"endTime":1112.195,"body":"something that another team"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1109.295,"endTime":1112.195,"body":"member who was in the room"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1112.325,"endTime":1116.965,"body":"was the owner of, and I knew"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1112.325,"endTime":1116.965,"body":"in my head that the thinking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1116.965,"endTime":1119.465,"body":"brain, I think, that was"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1116.965,"endTime":1119.465,"body":"sort of coming offline at the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1119.475,"endTime":1121.565,"body":"time was like let her answer."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1121.735,"endTime":1122.945,"body":"She has the answer."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1123.095,"endTime":1125.325,"body":"And the answer that's going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1123.095,"endTime":1125.325,"body":"to come out of my mouth is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1125.325,"endTime":1128.865,"body":"probably just going to come"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1125.325,"endTime":1128.865,"body":"off as, defensive, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1129.125,"endTime":1130.145,"body":"That sort of fight or flight."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1130.2749999999999,"endTime":1132.655,"body":"And, against my better"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1130.2749999999999,"endTime":1132.655,"body":"judgment, I blurted it out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1132.655,"endTime":1134.425,"body":"I was like, I need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1132.655,"endTime":1134.425,"body":"defend myself here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1134.425,"endTime":1135.425,"body":"I'm under attack."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1135.565,"endTime":1137.095,"body":"My judgment is being questioned."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1137.105,"endTime":1140.675,"body":"I'm in a room with my peers, a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1137.105,"endTime":1140.675,"body":"leadership team, I need to, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1140.675,"endTime":1143.285,"body":"this is like my, like sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1140.675,"endTime":1143.285,"body":"upbringing through the eighties."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1143.315,"endTime":1145.69,"body":"Like I need to like, take"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1143.315,"endTime":1145.69,"body":"out my weapon and wave it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1145.69,"endTime":1146.59,"body":"around, you know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1146.81,"endTime":1148.95,"body":"I need to be, like, this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1146.81,"endTime":1148.95,"body":"force to be reckoned with."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1148.98,"endTime":1150.66,"body":"And it didn't land"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1148.98,"endTime":1150.66,"body":"well, actually."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1150.66,"endTime":1152.47,"body":"And, and when I think back,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1150.66,"endTime":1152.47,"body":"and I got the feedback on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1152.47,"endTime":1154.6399999999999,"body":"it later from my colleague,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1152.47,"endTime":1154.6399999999999,"body":"it was like, you should have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1154.6399999999999,"endTime":1155.7,"body":"just let me answer that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1155.71,"endTime":1157.35,"body":"Like, it would have been fine."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1157.56,"endTime":1158.0,"body":"And it did."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1158.0,"endTime":1161.59,"body":"It took me a while to, like, get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1158.0,"endTime":1161.59,"body":"myself back online because, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1161.59,"endTime":1165.955,"body":"was sort of, just vibrating with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1161.59,"endTime":1165.955,"body":"that tension, and my muscles"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1165.955,"endTime":1168.375,"body":"are all tight, and, my brain is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1165.955,"endTime":1168.375,"body":"thinking a mile a minute, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1168.375,"endTime":1169.835,"body":"only about that thing, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1169.835,"endTime":1172.595,"body":"Only about, defend, and yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1169.835,"endTime":1172.595,"body":"when I look back on that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1172.595,"endTime":1175.5249999999999,"body":"always my example of like, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1172.595,"endTime":1175.5249999999999,"body":"felt the switch, and I probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1175.5249999999999,"endTime":1176.825,"body":"could have controlled it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1177.145,"endTime":1179.425,"body":"And then I probably could have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1177.145,"endTime":1179.425,"body":"gotten back online a little"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1179.425,"endTime":1183.185,"body":"bit faster if I had sort of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1179.425,"endTime":1183.185,"body":"maybe just sort of relaxed,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1183.195,"endTime":1186.165,"body":"let something sort of take"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1183.195,"endTime":1186.165,"body":"over and understand that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1186.195,"endTime":1189.035,"body":"yeah, I did have someone, even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1186.195,"endTime":1189.035,"body":"from a survival standpoint,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1189.195,"endTime":1192.045,"body":"I was not alone in the woods,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1189.195,"endTime":1192.045,"body":"getting attacked by something."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1192.195,"endTime":1194.7649999999999,"body":"I was with people I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1192.195,"endTime":1194.7649999999999,"body":"trust who could step in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1194.7649999999999,"endTime":1196.245,"body":"I wasn't fighting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1194.7649999999999,"endTime":1196.245,"body":"this battle alone."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1196.555,"endTime":1198.155,"body":"That's what eventually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1196.555,"endTime":1198.155,"body":"got me back online,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1198.155,"endTime":1198.825,"body":"but it took me a while."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1199.075,"endTime":1201.305,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1199.075,"endTime":1201.305,"body":"absolutely beautiful example."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1201.56,"endTime":1203.78,"body":"And I think you say some"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1201.56,"endTime":1203.78,"body":"really interesting stuff there."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1203.78,"endTime":1206.54,"body":"So you said it over one"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1203.78,"endTime":1206.54,"body":"level, looking back on it, you"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1206.54,"endTime":1208.01,"body":"realized you felt the switch."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1208.46,"endTime":1211.29,"body":"The other thing I'd say to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1208.46,"endTime":1211.29,"body":"you is I will bet you as"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1211.29,"endTime":1214.12,"body":"you're talking to me about"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1211.29,"endTime":1214.12,"body":"it now, there's an echo of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1214.12,"endTime":1216.97,"body":"it for you because as we"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1214.12,"endTime":1216.97,"body":"remember these things, it"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1216.97,"endTime":1218.6399999999999,"body":"transports us back in time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1218.98,"endTime":1219.55,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1219.55,"endTime":1220.154,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1220.154,"endTime":1220.155,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1220.155,"endTime":1221.69,"body":"So those"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1220.155,"endTime":1221.69,"body":"muscles tension and your"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1221.69,"endTime":1223.32,"body":"voice probably went a"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1221.69,"endTime":1223.32,"body":"bit tighter as you were"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1223.32,"endTime":1224.45,"body":"talking to me because of it."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1224.45,"endTime":1227.96,"body":"And so what I want to say"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1224.45,"endTime":1227.96,"body":"to you is the strategies"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1227.96,"endTime":1230.48,"body":"for learning to get your"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1227.96,"endTime":1230.48,"body":"thinking brain back online."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1231.085,"endTime":1235.425,"body":"Learning to spot the physical"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1231.085,"endTime":1235.425,"body":"data, the physical information."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1235.455,"endTime":1238.605,"body":"I've got tense here, my"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1235.455,"endTime":1238.605,"body":"palms are sweating, or my"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1238.605,"endTime":1241.965,"body":"voice has gone very sharp, or"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1238.605,"endTime":1241.965,"body":"whatever it is, that is the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1241.965,"endTime":1243.885,"body":"moment that's like gold dust."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1243.885,"endTime":1244.825,"body":"It's like a signal."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1244.855,"endTime":1247.925,"body":"Oh, my thinking brain is not"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1244.855,"endTime":1247.925,"body":"as online as it could be."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1248.2749999999999,"endTime":1251.715,"body":"And the secret then is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1248.2749999999999,"endTime":1251.715,"body":"to do several things."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1251.7549999999999,"endTime":1254.325,"body":"The first one is the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1251.7549999999999,"endTime":1254.325,"body":"actually naming it."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1254.625,"endTime":1257.0049999999999,"body":"Oh, I'm not as"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1254.625,"endTime":1257.0049999999999,"body":"online as I could be."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1257.195,"endTime":1259.595,"body":"That's just my mind"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1257.195,"endTime":1259.595,"body":"doing what it's doing."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1259.995,"endTime":1264.225,"body":"The next thing is to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1259.995,"endTime":1264.225,"body":"become very momentarily"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1264.335,"endTime":1267.715,"body":"interested and curious about"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1264.335,"endTime":1267.715,"body":"your physical responses."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1267.975,"endTime":1269.5149999999999,"body":"So it's like, Oh, I've"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1267.975,"endTime":1269.5149999999999,"body":"just noticed, I don't"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1269.5149999999999,"endTime":1272.585,"body":"know what's happened to my"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1269.5149999999999,"endTime":1272.585,"body":"voice or my sweaty palms."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1272.905,"endTime":1276.925,"body":"And then to do something"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1272.905,"endTime":1276.925,"body":"which is based on being more"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1277.335,"endTime":1278.925,"body":"aware of your physical self."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1279.085,"endTime":1281.875,"body":"So some people will say,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1279.085,"endTime":1281.875,"body":"take three deep breaths."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1281.875,"endTime":1283.085,"body":"You'll have heard"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1281.875,"endTime":1283.085,"body":"that one before."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1283.62,"endTime":1288.71,"body":"Yeah, I literally, as you take"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1283.62,"endTime":1288.71,"body":"those breaths, the exhalations"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1288.92,"endTime":1291.8,"body":"quieten the parasympathetic"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1288.92,"endTime":1291.8,"body":"nervous system, which is the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1291.84,"endTime":1293.06,"body":"kind of quietening system."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1293.07,"endTime":1295.34,"body":"So that helps bring your"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1293.07,"endTime":1295.34,"body":"thinking brain online."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1295.59,"endTime":1297.74,"body":"Other things you can"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1295.59,"endTime":1297.74,"body":"do is I'm sitting here"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1297.74,"endTime":1298.67,"body":"with a glass of water."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1298.67,"endTime":1300.8899999999999,"body":"If I reach out and actually"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1298.67,"endTime":1300.8899999999999,"body":"touch the glass and to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1300.8899999999999,"endTime":1302.3,"body":"allow myself just to notice."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1302.995,"endTime":1304.475,"body":"Oh, wow, that's really cold."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1304.625,"endTime":1306.635,"body":"So I'm my, it stops"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1304.625,"endTime":1306.635,"body":"me being in my head."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1306.635,"endTime":1308.455,"body":"I can feel the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1306.635,"endTime":1308.455,"body":"cold of the glass."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1308.655,"endTime":1310.535,"body":"We'll take a sip of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1308.655,"endTime":1310.535,"body":"water and feel the cold"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1310.535,"endTime":1311.405,"body":"water in your mouth."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1311.815,"endTime":1314.895,"body":"Or another one you can do is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1311.815,"endTime":1314.895,"body":"to, and I'm doing it now as"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1314.895,"endTime":1317.175,"body":"I'm talking to you, adjust how"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1314.895,"endTime":1317.175,"body":"you're sitting on your seat"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1317.185,"endTime":1320.7649999999999,"body":"and just put your feet very"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1317.185,"endTime":1320.7649999999999,"body":"firmly on the floor and try"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1320.7649999999999,"endTime":1322.135,"body":"wiggling your middle toes."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1322.175,"endTime":1324.855,"body":"Cause you can't be thinking"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1322.175,"endTime":1324.855,"body":"if you, does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1325.185,"endTime":1327.355,"body":"So there's all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1325.185,"endTime":1327.355,"body":"techniques, which I talk"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1327.365,"endTime":1329.605,"body":"about in the book, which"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1327.365,"endTime":1329.605,"body":"are ways of becoming aware"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1329.605,"endTime":1330.725,"body":"of your physical self."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1331.0049999999999,"endTime":1333.725,"body":"And that tends to slow"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1331.0049999999999,"endTime":1333.725,"body":"everything down, and it"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1333.725,"endTime":1336.675,"body":"might feel to you as if it's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1333.725,"endTime":1336.675,"body":"taking 15 minutes, but it's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1336.685,"endTime":1339.215,"body":"probably only a second or"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1336.685,"endTime":1339.215,"body":"two, any of those things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1339.565,"endTime":1340.165,"body":"I like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1340.175,"endTime":1342.055,"body":"It's one of those things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1340.175,"endTime":1342.055,"body":"where, like, three deep"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1342.065,"endTime":1345.425,"body":"breaths, we hear it a lot,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1342.065,"endTime":1345.425,"body":"but in a way, it lands like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1345.425,"endTime":1346.535,"body":"a cure for hiccups, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1346.555,"endTime":1348.615,"body":"Like, I'll drink a glass of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1346.555,"endTime":1348.615,"body":"water upside down, ha, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1348.615,"endTime":1351.645,"body":"like, but when you explain it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1348.615,"endTime":1351.645,"body":"from a sort of physiological"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1351.645,"endTime":1355.06,"body":"standpoint, like, it makes loads"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1351.645,"endTime":1355.06,"body":"of sense that, these are things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1355.06,"endTime":1358.95,"body":"that from a sensory perspective,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1355.06,"endTime":1358.95,"body":"or, even just from a respiratory"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1358.95,"endTime":1363.48,"body":"perspective, like are regulating"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1358.95,"endTime":1363.48,"body":"and calming sort of mechanisms,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1363.6299999999999,"endTime":1366.54,"body":"like through, millions of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1363.6299999999999,"endTime":1366.54,"body":"years of evolution, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1366.61,"endTime":1367.1499999999999,"body":"Like it's,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1367.19,"endTime":1367.8,"body":"that's right."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1367.82,"endTime":1369.75,"body":"And I think the other thing,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1367.82,"endTime":1369.75,"body":"we were speaking earlier"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1369.75,"endTime":1373.22,"body":"about stress and stress"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1369.75,"endTime":1373.22,"body":"is a physiological thing"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1373.26,"endTime":1374.43,"body":"as well as a mental thing."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1374.51,"endTime":1377.09,"body":"And one thing I don't think I"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1374.51,"endTime":1377.09,"body":"said earlier, which is really"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1377.1,"endTime":1380.79,"body":"interesting to me is actually"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1377.1,"endTime":1380.79,"body":"when I was at the school, I"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1380.79,"endTime":1384.05,"body":"was taught to believe, I think,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1380.79,"endTime":1384.05,"body":"that the brain is like the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1384.07,"endTime":1387.02,"body":"command center for our bodies"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1384.07,"endTime":1387.02,"body":"and I love being a human."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1387.02,"endTime":1389.8999999999999,"body":"It's top down from the brain,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1387.02,"endTime":1389.8999999999999,"body":"but the evidence goes, no,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1390.1,"endTime":1392.85,"body":"about 80 to 90 percent goes"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1390.1,"endTime":1392.85,"body":"from the body up to the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1392.85,"endTime":1394.83,"body":"brain, which is fascinating."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1394.8799999999999,"endTime":1395.43,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1395.52,"endTime":1397.19,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1395.52,"endTime":1397.19,"body":"so if we tune into that."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1397.3899999999999,"endTime":1399.84,"body":"It's like, oh, what are"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1397.3899999999999,"endTime":1399.84,"body":"we opening up as possible?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1400.02,"endTime":1401.17,"body":"Actually,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1400.02,"endTime":1401.17,"body":"that's very interesting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1401.21,"endTime":1403.68,"body":"We do very much think that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1401.21,"endTime":1403.68,"body":"way of like, brains in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1403.68,"endTime":1406.6,"body":"control, but it is ultimately"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1403.68,"endTime":1406.6,"body":"an interpreter, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1406.6499999999999,"endTime":1407.98,"body":"And we have all these things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1407.98,"endTime":1410.16,"body":"We're seeing things, we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1407.98,"endTime":1410.16,"body":"hearing things, we're touching"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1410.16,"endTime":1411.57,"body":"things and all the other things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1412.2549999999999,"endTime":1415.455,"body":"It's sensory and then it gets"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1412.2549999999999,"endTime":1415.455,"body":"interpreted by our brains."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1415.975,"endTime":1417.095,"body":"That's actually a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1415.975,"endTime":1417.095,"body":"really interesting way."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1417.115,"endTime":1418.865,"body":"Kind of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1417.115,"endTime":1418.865,"body":"assessed, is it safe or is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1418.865,"endTime":1420.285,"body":"it hostile all of the time?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1420.475,"endTime":1423.205,"body":"And then if, of course, if"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1420.475,"endTime":1423.205,"body":"we feel safe, that other pull"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1423.205,"endTime":1425.7649999999999,"body":"for ourselves, which is being"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1423.205,"endTime":1425.7649999999999,"body":"social connection with people"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1425.7649999999999,"endTime":1427.435,"body":"will take us towards people."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1427.485,"endTime":1427.885,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1427.895,"endTime":1430.245,"body":"Which is when we can do all"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1427.895,"endTime":1430.245,"body":"that really good work, which"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1430.2649999999999,"endTime":1432.915,"body":"kind of relates to when"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1430.2649999999999,"endTime":1432.915,"body":"we're feeling psychologically"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1432.985,"endTime":1433.925,"body":"safe, for example."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1434.245,"endTime":1435.975,"body":"And acting with"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1434.245,"endTime":1435.975,"body":"emotional intelligence,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1436.405,"endTime":1437.635,"body":"so they all link up."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1437.815,"endTime":1439.825,"body":"I wonder if we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1437.815,"endTime":1439.825,"body":"can sort of extend, I know"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1439.825,"endTime":1442.045,"body":"maybe we don't go through"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1439.825,"endTime":1442.045,"body":"some examples of scenarios."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1442.105,"endTime":1444.5149999999999,"body":"I've got some later on that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1442.105,"endTime":1444.5149999999999,"body":"we can go through together."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1444.575,"endTime":1447.0249999999999,"body":"But, I'm thinking from my"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1444.575,"endTime":1447.0249999999999,"body":"colleague's perspective in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1447.0249999999999,"endTime":1449.795,"body":"that scenario, or even like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1447.0249999999999,"endTime":1449.795,"body":"a different scenario where,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1449.845,"endTime":1454.023,"body":"a project manager is sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1449.845,"endTime":1454.023,"body":"witnessing somebody's thinking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1454.023,"endTime":1458.45,"body":"brain just going offline and,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1454.023,"endTime":1458.45,"body":"you know, what we can do to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1458.45,"endTime":1462.06,"body":"try and, help them get their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1458.45,"endTime":1462.06,"body":"thinking brains back online."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1462.26,"endTime":1462.51,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1462.51,"endTime":1464.51,"body":"I remember a scenario"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1462.51,"endTime":1464.51,"body":"where, we were doing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1464.51,"endTime":1466.1499999999999,"body":"a big website rebuild."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1466.1499999999999,"endTime":1467.24,"body":"It was a government website."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1467.24,"endTime":1469.25,"body":"It was very high"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1467.24,"endTime":1469.25,"body":"stakes, high visibility."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1469.3899999999999,"endTime":1471.58,"body":"And it was like the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1469.3899999999999,"endTime":1471.58,"body":"day before go live."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1471.75,"endTime":1474.3899999999999,"body":"I can't even remember exactly"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1471.75,"endTime":1474.3899999999999,"body":"what happened, but a third"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1474.3899999999999,"endTime":1477.09,"body":"party vendor that we were"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1474.3899999999999,"endTime":1477.09,"body":"working with, flipped a switch"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1477.09,"endTime":1480.31,"body":"that we didn't think they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1477.09,"endTime":1480.31,"body":"were going to flip and it lost"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1480.31,"endTime":1484.03,"body":"a whole bunch of work and I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1480.31,"endTime":1484.03,"body":"remember my technical architect"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1484.23,"endTime":1486.3,"body":"fuming, understandably so."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1486.52,"endTime":1490.67,"body":"But it became very quickly"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1486.52,"endTime":1490.67,"body":"this sort of fuming blame"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1491.03,"endTime":1494.79,"body":"thing where, we're like, well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1491.03,"endTime":1494.79,"body":"they made this problem, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1494.8899999999999,"endTime":1496.78,"body":"we're just going to sit on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1494.8899999999999,"endTime":1496.78,"body":"our hands until they fix it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1496.78,"endTime":1497.55,"body":"It's their problem to fix."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1497.84,"endTime":1501.66,"body":"And, in some ways, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1497.84,"endTime":1501.66,"body":"if that totally counts as a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1501.69,"endTime":1504.55,"body":"thinking brain going offline"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1501.69,"endTime":1504.55,"body":"but the emotional response that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1504.55,"endTime":1507.87,"body":"I was witnessing was very much,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1504.55,"endTime":1507.87,"body":"get stuck in, fight more than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1507.87,"endTime":1509.11,"body":"flight really in that scenario."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1509.8,"endTime":1512.16,"body":"And I was like, okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1509.8,"endTime":1512.16,"body":"how do we keep moving forward"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1512.16,"endTime":1513.5,"body":"rather than, digging in?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1513.72,"endTime":1514.31,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1514.72,"endTime":1518.58,"body":"And I think the first thing in"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1514.72,"endTime":1518.58,"body":"that situation is to acknowledge"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1518.59,"endTime":1520.29,"body":"just how difficult it is."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1520.53,"endTime":1522.6,"body":"Cause I think what we often"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1520.53,"endTime":1522.6,"body":"do in the world of projects"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1522.6,"endTime":1523.97,"body":"is, address the task."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1524.08,"endTime":1524.68,"body":"Let's get on."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1524.71,"endTime":1525.98,"body":"What's the next thing we can do?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1526.18,"endTime":1529.33,"body":"And actually the thing to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1526.18,"endTime":1529.33,"body":"go is, wow, that is really"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1530.06,"endTime":1531.7,"body":"thrown a spanner in the works."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1531.7,"endTime":1533.76,"body":"Like it was, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1531.7,"endTime":1533.76,"body":"how you're feeling about"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1533.83,"endTime":1534.87,"body":"it, but I'm really cross."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1535.86,"endTime":1538.1499999999999,"body":"So there's something"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1535.86,"endTime":1538.1499999999999,"body":"about legitimizing that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1538.1499999999999,"endTime":1541.11,"body":"is okay to feel like that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1538.1499999999999,"endTime":1541.11,"body":"is part of the framing."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1541.31,"endTime":1544.225,"body":"And I think the next thing I'd"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1541.31,"endTime":1544.225,"body":"be going is and we need a bit"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1544.225,"endTime":1546.715,"body":"of space before we even think"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1544.225,"endTime":1546.715,"body":"about what we do with that."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1546.885,"endTime":1547.635,"body":"Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1547.635,"endTime":1549.425,"body":"So it's a really press"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1547.635,"endTime":1549.425,"body":"the pause button."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1549.645,"endTime":1551.225,"body":"What do we need to do?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1551.395,"endTime":1554.655,"body":"And it might be, let's, take"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1551.395,"endTime":1554.655,"body":"10 minutes, take an hour, go"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1554.655,"endTime":1557.085,"body":"out and have a run, go for a"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1554.655,"endTime":1557.085,"body":"walk, go and do whatever you"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1557.085,"endTime":1560.855,"body":"need to do, which is not focused"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1557.085,"endTime":1560.855,"body":"on the job at hand because"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1561.035,"endTime":1563.375,"body":"while you're raging, you're"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1561.035,"endTime":1563.375,"body":"not going to do anything that's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1563.375,"endTime":1566.175,"body":"constructive, but you might"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1563.375,"endTime":1566.175,"body":"create a whole load more mess."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1566.87,"endTime":1567.58,"body":"No, I like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1567.58,"endTime":1568.91,"body":"I like that sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1567.58,"endTime":1568.91,"body":"of legitimizing it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1568.92,"endTime":1571.16,"body":"And I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1568.92,"endTime":1571.16,"body":"project managers I know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1571.22,"endTime":1573.78,"body":"and myself included, our"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1571.22,"endTime":1573.78,"body":"instinct is to be like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1573.8799999999999,"endTime":1575.1299999999999,"body":"don't feel the emotions now."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1575.1299999999999,"endTime":1575.91,"body":"You can feel them later."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1575.91,"endTime":1578.81,"body":"We've got to do this, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1575.91,"endTime":1578.81,"body":"this, like take action, stiff"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1578.81,"endTime":1580.17,"body":"upper lip and off we go."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1580.26,"endTime":1582.28,"body":"Whereas like,  think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1580.26,"endTime":1582.28,"body":"the like, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1582.28,"endTime":1583.3,"body":"take five, go for a run."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1583.5,"endTime":1586.72,"body":"It's probably not the first"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1583.5,"endTime":1586.72,"body":"card in the deck for a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1586.72,"endTime":1587.62,"body":"lot of project managers."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1587.68,"endTime":1588.3,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1588.33,"endTime":1592.5,"body":"But I think what is so curious"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1588.33,"endTime":1592.5,"body":"is exactly what you said."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1592.85,"endTime":1595.54,"body":"We have been taught not to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1592.85,"endTime":1595.54,"body":"notice how we're feeling."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1595.55,"endTime":1596.48,"body":"That's irrelevant."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1596.84,"endTime":1599.57,"body":"Let's just suppress that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1596.84,"endTime":1599.57,"body":"and get on with the job."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1599.81,"endTime":1601.7,"body":"Where in fact, how"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1599.81,"endTime":1601.7,"body":"we're feeling dictates"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1601.75,"endTime":1603.23,"body":"absolutely everything else."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1603.7,"endTime":1606.19,"body":"And you don't necessarily, just"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1603.7,"endTime":1606.19,"body":"because you're feeling really"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1606.19,"endTime":1608.36,"body":"angry, doesn't mean you then"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1606.19,"endTime":1608.36,"body":"have to throw all your toys"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1608.3799999999999,"endTime":1611.67,"body":"out the pram, but at the actual"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1608.3799999999999,"endTime":1611.67,"body":"engaging with it and going,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1611.67,"endTime":1613.11,"body":"actually, I am feeling angry."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1613.11,"endTime":1616.443,"body":"What do I need to do to feel a"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1613.11,"endTime":1616.443,"body":"bit better and to be curious and"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1616.443,"endTime":1618.12,"body":"how do I know I'm feeling angry?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1618.45,"endTime":1619.77,"body":"How can I reverse that?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1619.82,"endTime":1622.23,"body":"Or how can I make"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1619.82,"endTime":1622.23,"body":"myself feel better?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1622.43,"endTime":1625.21,"body":"I mean, feel better"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1622.43,"endTime":1625.21,"body":"at a physical level."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1625.41,"endTime":1628.31,"body":"Okay, I am physically"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1625.41,"endTime":1628.31,"body":"better than that."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1628.42,"endTime":1631.25,"body":"So actually engaging with"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1628.42,"endTime":1631.25,"body":"difficult feelings makes them"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1631.26,"endTime":1634.1299999999999,"body":"subside a whole lot quicker"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1631.26,"endTime":1634.1299999999999,"body":"than suppressing them does."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1634.53,"endTime":1635.91,"body":"It's actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1634.53,"endTime":1635.91,"body":"interesting, I mean, you think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1635.91,"endTime":1639.22,"body":"about, young children, infants"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1635.91,"endTime":1639.22,"body":"even, right, where we talk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1639.23,"endTime":1642.62,"body":"about the sort of, I don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1639.23,"endTime":1642.62,"body":"know, emotional regulation of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1642.6299999999999,"endTime":1646.61,"body":"sort of not just, yeah, digging"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1642.6299999999999,"endTime":1646.61,"body":"into the emotion, but thinking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1646.61,"endTime":1650.27,"body":"about sort of getting out of it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1646.61,"endTime":1650.27,"body":"if it's, not being productive."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1650.565,"endTime":1652.7649999999999,"body":"And then we forget it all"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1650.565,"endTime":1652.7649999999999,"body":"because we become adults."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1653.335,"endTime":1653.965,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1654.095,"endTime":1656.095,"body":"But I think, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1654.095,"endTime":1656.095,"body":"young children, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1656.095,"endTime":1659.2749999999999,"body":"the other thing is we are born"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1656.095,"endTime":1659.2749999999999,"body":"into this world, totally unable"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1659.2749999999999,"endTime":1660.635,"body":"to regulate our emotions."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1660.935,"endTime":1663.055,"body":"And it's only through our"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1660.935,"endTime":1663.055,"body":"relationships with our"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1663.055,"endTime":1666.055,"body":"caregivers that we develop"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1663.055,"endTime":1666.055,"body":"the physiology to be able"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1666.055,"endTime":1667.405,"body":"to regulate ourselves."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1667.77,"endTime":1670.97,"body":"And that need for other"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1667.77,"endTime":1670.97,"body":"people to help us regulate at"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1670.97,"endTime":1673.71,"body":"different times in our lives"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1670.97,"endTime":1673.71,"body":"is there all of the time."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1673.92,"endTime":1678.31,"body":"And so, so I, my view is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1673.92,"endTime":1678.31,"body":"learning to regulate ourselves"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1678.31,"endTime":1681.74,"body":"in order to regulate other"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1678.31,"endTime":1681.74,"body":"people is a key role of any"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1681.74,"endTime":1684.45,"body":"leader and really important"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1681.74,"endTime":1684.45,"body":"in the world of projects."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1684.76,"endTime":1686.02,"body":"I know that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1684.76,"endTime":1686.02,"body":"some folks listening are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1686.02,"endTime":1688.56,"body":"thinking there are some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1686.02,"endTime":1688.56,"body":"scenarios and projects where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1688.57,"endTime":1690.175,"body":"there isn't 5, 10 minutes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1690.185,"endTime":1692.2749999999999,"body":"First, you're a technical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1690.185,"endTime":1692.2749999999999,"body":"architect to go have a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1692.2749999999999,"endTime":1693.905,"body":"run and then come back."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1695.175,"endTime":1698.385,"body":"What happens when the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1695.175,"endTime":1698.385,"body":"project manager doesn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1698.385,"endTime":1699.2549999999999,"body":"have the luxury of time?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1699.2649999999999,"endTime":1701.205,"body":"The project team doesn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1699.2649999999999,"endTime":1701.205,"body":"have the luxury of time,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1701.325,"endTime":1702.225,"body":"we need to press on."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1702.405,"endTime":1703.205,"body":"Well, yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1703.305,"endTime":1706.245,"body":"And your technical architect"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1703.305,"endTime":1706.245,"body":"doesn't have the luxury of time."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1706.615,"endTime":1708.545,"body":"And he's really is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1706.615,"endTime":1708.545,"body":"thinking brain's not"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1708.545,"endTime":1709.635,"body":"really online at all."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1709.875,"endTime":1712.245,"body":"So a lot of what he's doing"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1709.875,"endTime":1712.245,"body":"will not be very good quality."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1712.375,"endTime":1714.175,"body":"And then the question"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1712.375,"endTime":1714.175,"body":"is, what is he producing?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1714.175,"endTime":1716.675,"body":"And what's the impacts that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1714.175,"endTime":1716.675,"body":"going to have down the line?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1717.0049999999999,"endTime":1717.385,"body":"That's fair."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1717.385,"endTime":1718.835,"body":"And then it becomes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1717.385,"endTime":1718.835,"body":"a risk, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1718.835,"endTime":1721.355,"body":"And we look at it as like a, I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1718.835,"endTime":1721.355,"body":"willing to hazard that there may"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1721.355,"endTime":1725.485,"body":"be some projects where that is,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1721.355,"endTime":1725.485,"body":"the best option to have someone"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1725.485,"endTime":1728.865,"body":"press through, do lower quality"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1725.485,"endTime":1728.865,"body":"work, knowing that they're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1728.925,"endTime":1731.845,"body":"thinking brain is offline and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1728.925,"endTime":1731.845,"body":"then dealing with it later."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1732.095,"endTime":1733.855,"body":"And then the other thing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1732.095,"endTime":1733.855,"body":"that strikes me is that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1733.855,"endTime":1736.375,"body":"like, these are the other"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1733.855,"endTime":1736.375,"body":"reasons why, we talk about a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1736.375,"endTime":1738.855,"body":"bit of overlap or redundancy"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1736.375,"endTime":1738.855,"body":"on a project team, probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1738.855,"endTime":1741.315,"body":"don't need two technical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1738.855,"endTime":1741.315,"body":"architects, billing full"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1741.315,"endTime":1742.555,"body":"time, throughout your project."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1742.875,"endTime":1745.705,"body":"But it may be good to have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1742.875,"endTime":1745.705,"body":"some cross training, it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1745.705,"endTime":1747.845,"body":"like these moments where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1745.705,"endTime":1747.845,"body":"you're like, okay, yeah, could"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1747.845,"endTime":1750.835,"body":"somebody, step in and, operate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1747.845,"endTime":1750.835,"body":"the train for a little bit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1751.0149999999999,"endTime":1753.565,"body":"And have we built that in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1751.0149999999999,"endTime":1753.565,"body":"because, in a way that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1753.615,"endTime":1756.545,"body":"what I have as a risk on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1753.615,"endTime":1756.545,"body":"my risk register, technical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1756.545,"endTime":1759.085,"body":"architect, maybe fuming if"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1756.545,"endTime":1759.085,"body":"somebody pulls the wrong"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1759.085,"endTime":1761.575,"body":"switch, who doesn't work for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1759.085,"endTime":1761.575,"body":"our organization, I probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1761.575,"endTime":1763.385,"body":"wouldn't have a plan for that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1761.575,"endTime":1763.385,"body":"but I might have a plan for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1763.385,"endTime":1764.545,"body":"like just staffing, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1764.545,"endTime":1768.045,"body":"What happens if somebody is sick"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1764.545,"endTime":1768.045,"body":"on the day of the launch, who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1768.045,"endTime":1770.055,"body":"would step in and that would"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1768.045,"endTime":1770.055,"body":"create some coverage for me."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1770.33,"endTime":1771.2,"body":"There's that one."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1771.23,"endTime":1774.26,"body":"And then I think the other one"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1771.23,"endTime":1774.26,"body":"is over, we're talking about a"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1774.35,"endTime":1777.73,"body":"single incidence, but I think"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1774.35,"endTime":1777.73,"body":"if we're in a situation and"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1777.73,"endTime":1781.1399999999999,"body":"there's been quite a fair bit"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1777.73,"endTime":1781.1399999999999,"body":"of research done where we're"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1781.1399999999999,"endTime":1784.54,"body":"in high stress environments"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1781.1399999999999,"endTime":1784.54,"body":"for a really long time, and"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1784.54,"endTime":1788.145,"body":"we've got project leaders"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1784.54,"endTime":1788.145,"body":"who are unable to press the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1788.145,"endTime":1790.345,"body":"pause button and all they"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1788.145,"endTime":1790.345,"body":"keep on doing is, cracking"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1790.345,"endTime":1791.705,"body":"the whip harder and harder."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1791.945,"endTime":1795.335,"body":"They create an even more"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1791.945,"endTime":1795.335,"body":"stressful and often actually"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1795.365,"endTime":1797.0049999999999,"body":"toxic and brutal culture."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1797.0049999999999,"endTime":1799.235,"body":"And I know that happens"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1797.0049999999999,"endTime":1799.235,"body":"big time on mega projects."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1799.7549999999999,"endTime":1800.285,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1800.995,"endTime":1802.835,"body":"Just such depth of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1800.995,"endTime":1802.835,"body":"pressure too, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1802.835,"endTime":1805.365,"body":"High visibility, lots"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1802.835,"endTime":1805.365,"body":"of dollars involved."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1805.445,"endTime":1805.835,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1806.205,"endTime":1807.045,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1807.135,"endTime":1809.165,"body":"And so there's, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1807.135,"endTime":1809.165,"body":"huge questions around it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1809.825,"endTime":1812.465,"body":"I remember talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1809.825,"endTime":1812.465,"body":"to a former colleague about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1812.495,"endTime":1814.895,"body":"some of the work he did for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1812.495,"endTime":1814.895,"body":"the government during the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1814.905,"endTime":1818.355,"body":"pandemic response, where,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1814.905,"endTime":1818.355,"body":"it was very much, can't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1818.365,"endTime":1819.385,"body":"take your foot off the gas."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1819.545,"endTime":1822.945,"body":"But I think he was explaining"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1819.545,"endTime":1822.945,"body":"how his team and their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1822.945,"endTime":1825.345,"body":"leadership, like, did a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1822.945,"endTime":1825.345,"body":"wonderful job of understanding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1825.345,"endTime":1828.055,"body":"that, that, like, the stress"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1825.345,"endTime":1828.055,"body":"floor is already high,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1828.145,"endTime":1829.345,"body":"it is mission critical."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1829.585,"endTime":1832.57,"body":"And, you he had used the words,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1829.585,"endTime":1832.57,"body":"I think, people weren't able"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1832.57,"endTime":1836.52,"body":"to keep up, but not as in like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1832.57,"endTime":1836.52,"body":"they were deemed inadequate."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1836.55,"endTime":1838.51,"body":"It was that no"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1836.55,"endTime":1838.51,"body":"one could keep up."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1838.51,"endTime":1840.55,"body":"It wasn't a realistic"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1838.51,"endTime":1840.55,"body":"expectation to think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1840.56,"endTime":1843.33,"body":"that, everyone could be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1840.56,"endTime":1843.33,"body":"working, 20 hour days for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1843.35,"endTime":1844.42,"body":"six months, nine months."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1844.69,"endTime":1845.99,"body":"And they sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1844.69,"endTime":1845.99,"body":"factored that in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1845.99,"endTime":1848.07,"body":"They're like, we know we need"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1845.99,"endTime":1848.07,"body":"to keep our foot on the gas."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1848.07,"endTime":1850.1299999999999,"body":"It's lives at stake, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1848.07,"endTime":1850.1299999999999,"body":"we need to plan for that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1850.1299999999999,"endTime":1852.35,"body":"We can't just burn people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1850.1299999999999,"endTime":1852.35,"body":"out and think that it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1852.35,"endTime":1855.23,"body":"going to be fine because low"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1852.35,"endTime":1855.23,"body":"quality work there, probably."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1855.3,"endTime":1855.73,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1856.03,"endTime":1856.6499999999999,"body":"It's too big of a risk."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1856.86,"endTime":1857.76,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1857.79,"endTime":1860.51,"body":"And in the book I talk about"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1857.79,"endTime":1860.51,"body":"also learning to manage what's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1860.51,"endTime":1861.52,"body":"called your body budget."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1861.52,"endTime":1863.25,"body":"And so there's something"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1861.52,"endTime":1863.25,"body":"about absolutely being"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1863.25,"endTime":1865.26,"body":"aware, how much gas is there?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1865.61,"endTime":1866.27,"body":"If you like."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1866.34,"endTime":1866.99,"body":"I like that."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1867.19,"endTime":1868.99,"body":"How much"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1867.19,"endTime":1868.99,"body":"energy have I really got when"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1868.99,"endTime":1872.264,"body":"I look at myself in the round,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1868.99,"endTime":1872.264,"body":"if I'm running on too hard?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1872.565,"endTime":1876.575,"body":"And that's not an advert for"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1872.565,"endTime":1876.575,"body":"being lazy, but I think there"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1876.575,"endTime":1879.975,"body":"used to be a view that this is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1876.575,"endTime":1879.975,"body":"a really hard job I'm doing."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1879.975,"endTime":1882.805,"body":"I'll relax at the weekend"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1879.975,"endTime":1882.805,"body":"or go and do something"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1882.805,"endTime":1884.485,"body":"there to unburden myself."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1884.485,"endTime":1887.045,"body":"And I think the evidence is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1884.485,"endTime":1887.045,"body":"now saying, no, don't save it"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1887.085,"endTime":1891.0049999999999,"body":"all up during the day, check"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1887.085,"endTime":1891.0049999999999,"body":"in with yourself several times."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1891.245,"endTime":1892.065,"body":"How am I doing?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1892.065,"endTime":1894.345,"body":"How long, how online"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1892.065,"endTime":1894.345,"body":"is my thinking brain?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1894.7549999999999,"endTime":1898.035,"body":"What do I need to do to get"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1894.7549999999999,"endTime":1898.035,"body":"myself into better balance now"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1898.035,"endTime":1899.905,"body":"at this point so I can continue?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1899.955,"endTime":1902.355,"body":"So there's this kind of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1899.955,"endTime":1902.355,"body":"keeping yourself in budget"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1902.365,"endTime":1904.745,"body":"rather than getting vastly"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1902.365,"endTime":1904.745,"body":"overdrawn, if you like."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1905.305,"endTime":1905.955,"body":"That's very cool."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1906.205,"endTime":1906.915,"body":"Body budget."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1907.065,"endTime":1907.945,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1907.065,"endTime":1907.945,"body":"that's the work of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1907.945,"endTime":1909.115,"body":"Lisa Feldman Barrett."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1909.425,"endTime":1910.695,"body":"She says getting academic."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1911.605,"endTime":1912.085,"body":"There you go."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1913.0049999999999,"endTime":1915.165,"body":"I'm wondering if we could shift"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1913.0049999999999,"endTime":1915.165,"body":"gears and have a bit of fun."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1915.165,"endTime":1917.2649999999999,"body":"I know we resisted"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1915.165,"endTime":1917.2649999999999,"body":"examples earlier."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1917.2649999999999,"endTime":1919.195,"body":"I gave a couple of my"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1917.2649999999999,"endTime":1919.195,"body":"own sort of scenarios."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1919.235,"endTime":1922.595,"body":"But I have a couple of scenarios"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1919.235,"endTime":1922.595,"body":"for our community and I was"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1922.595,"endTime":1924.825,"body":"wondering if we could play"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1922.595,"endTime":1924.825,"body":"a game called Why people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1924.825,"endTime":1927.0049999999999,"body":"behave the way they do Orama?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1927.435,"endTime":1930.835,"body":"So basically I've got like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1927.435,"endTime":1930.835,"body":"three scenarios here and I was"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1930.835,"endTime":1933.0149999999999,"body":"hoping we could just unpack"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1930.835,"endTime":1933.0149999999999,"body":"it together using some of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1933.0149999999999,"endTime":1935.365,"body":"the concepts that we've been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1933.0149999999999,"endTime":1935.365,"body":"talking about just in terms of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1935.365,"endTime":1938.495,"body":"why that person may be behaving"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1935.365,"endTime":1938.495,"body":"that way and how a project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1938.495,"endTime":1939.845,"body":"manager could approach it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1940.175,"endTime":1942.0149999999999,"body":"So I don't know, we'll"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1940.175,"endTime":1942.0149999999999,"body":"give it a go and we'll"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1942.0149999999999,"endTime":1942.845,"body":"see where it takes us."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1943.2549999999999,"endTime":1946.825,"body":"Alright, scenario one is when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1943.2549999999999,"endTime":1946.825,"body":"a team member says yes to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1946.825,"endTime":1949.645,"body":"something in a group setting,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1946.825,"endTime":1949.645,"body":"but then is very resistant"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1949.645,"endTime":1952.315,"body":"or defensive when you follow"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1949.645,"endTime":1952.315,"body":"up with them in like a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1952.325,"endTime":1953.955,"body":"private one-to-one context."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1954.615,"endTime":1955.405,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1955.675,"endTime":1958.335,"body":"Do you remember earlier"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1955.675,"endTime":1958.335,"body":"on I said that humans are"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1958.345,"endTime":1962.585,"body":"really social beings and"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1958.345,"endTime":1962.585,"body":"that means often belonging"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1962.585,"endTime":1963.915,"body":"is really important."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1964.0049999999999,"endTime":1967.205,"body":"So if you think about the group"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1964.0049999999999,"endTime":1967.205,"body":"scenario, if everyone else is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1967.205,"endTime":1969.125,"body":"saying everything's going really"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1967.205,"endTime":1969.125,"body":"well, it takes a huge amount"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1969.125,"endTime":1972.56,"body":"of courage to be the one person"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1969.125,"endTime":1972.56,"body":"that can say no, it's not."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1972.77,"endTime":1975.1399999999999,"body":"And then the kind of threat"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1972.77,"endTime":1975.1399999999999,"body":"where people might feel"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1975.28,"endTime":1978.28,"body":"quite ashamed of themselves,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1975.28,"endTime":1978.28,"body":"a threat response or"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1978.28,"endTime":1979.17,"body":"an avoidance response."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1979.17,"endTime":1982.19,"body":"And shame is a really difficult"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1979.17,"endTime":1982.19,"body":"emotion to be handling."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1982.19,"endTime":1984.78,"body":"So that way, so it wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1982.19,"endTime":1984.78,"body":"surprise me in the least."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1984.78,"endTime":1986.8799999999999,"body":"I think that happens quite"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1984.78,"endTime":1986.8799999999999,"body":"frequently in groups."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1987.32,"endTime":1990.2,"body":"And then when you get them to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1987.32,"endTime":1990.2,"body":"the side, all of a sudden it's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1990.2,"endTime":1991.86,"body":"a completely different story."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1991.99,"endTime":1994.49,"body":"But when you do get them to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1991.99,"endTime":1994.49,"body":"decide, Galen, what's going"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1994.49,"endTime":1996.8899999999999,"body":"on for you when they've"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1994.49,"endTime":1996.8899999999999,"body":"said to you, I guess I can"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1996.8899999999999,"endTime":1999.35,"body":"do it in a group and all"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":1996.8899999999999,"endTime":1999.35,"body":"of a sudden they go, no."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1999.52,"endTime":2001.04,"body":"I'm looking at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1999.52,"endTime":2001.04,"body":"the scenario and I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2001.11,"endTime":2003.91,"body":"I feel like the framing is,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2001.11,"endTime":2003.91,"body":"team member agreed to do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2003.91,"endTime":2007.67,"body":"it in a group setting and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2003.91,"endTime":2007.67,"body":"then time has elapsed and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2007.67,"endTime":2009.18,"body":"it's probably almost, due."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2009.585,"endTime":2013.325,"body":"And then, a project manager like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2009.585,"endTime":2013.325,"body":"myself is following up when it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2013.385,"endTime":2014.535,"body":"should be ready soon, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2014.705,"endTime":2017.175,"body":"And I know that sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2014.705,"endTime":2017.175,"body":"resistance or defensiveness"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2017.365,"endTime":2018.835,"body":"about it, like, well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2017.365,"endTime":2018.835,"body":"this is really hard."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2018.885,"endTime":2020.785,"body":"It's not something that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2018.885,"endTime":2020.785,"body":"I can do and definitely"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2020.785,"endTime":2021.595,"body":"not for this due date."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2021.735,"endTime":2023.865,"body":"And then it triggers"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2021.735,"endTime":2023.865,"body":"my fight or flight."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2024.175,"endTime":2027.485,"body":"Now I'm going, okay, now my sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2024.175,"endTime":2027.485,"body":"of body is telling me I'm tense."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2027.655,"endTime":2029.815,"body":"My first sort of reaction"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2027.655,"endTime":2029.815,"body":"is like, why did you say"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2029.815,"endTime":2032.475,"body":"yes to it if you knew that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2029.815,"endTime":2032.475,"body":"it wasn't something that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2032.495,"endTime":2033.965,"body":"you could really tackle?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2034.125,"endTime":2036.7649999999999,"body":"And then I guess like, two"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2034.125,"endTime":2036.7649999999999,"body":"things for me, I'd be like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2036.7649999999999,"endTime":2039.5049999999999,"body":"okay, well, A) like you said,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2036.7649999999999,"endTime":2039.5049999999999,"body":"using the concepts we've been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2039.5049999999999,"endTime":2043.205,"body":"talking about, I need to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2039.5049999999999,"endTime":2043.205,"body":"aware of, sort of, my thinking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2043.205,"endTime":2046.345,"body":"brain and my emotional state,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2043.205,"endTime":2046.345,"body":"as well as theirs, and when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2046.345,"endTime":2049.5950000000003,"body":"you think empathetically"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2046.345,"endTime":2049.5950000000003,"body":"about it, where yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2049.62,"endTime":2054.83,"body":"actually, it would be sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2049.62,"endTime":2054.83,"body":"this sort of shame that they're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2054.83,"endTime":2056.56,"body":"avoiding in that context."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2056.79,"endTime":2060.4100000000003,"body":"And arguably in any sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2056.79,"endTime":2060.4100000000003,"body":"of social context where, it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2060.54,"endTime":2063.06,"body":"probably is something, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2060.54,"endTime":2063.06,"body":"could understand why that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2063.07,"endTime":2064.75,"body":"individual might have said yes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2065.12,"endTime":2067.9,"body":"And then you can work forward"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2065.12,"endTime":2067.9,"body":"from there, it might not be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2067.9900000000002,"endTime":2071.57,"body":"easy, but, I think that would"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2067.9900000000002,"endTime":2071.57,"body":"sort of help me sort of level"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2071.57,"endTime":2074.21,"body":"the conversation and not let"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2071.57,"endTime":2074.21,"body":"it escalate because if I, if"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2074.21,"endTime":2077.23,"body":"I shout back, and then it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2074.21,"endTime":2077.23,"body":"just going to be an escalation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2077.38,"endTime":2079.8900000000003,"body":"of emotions, and that will"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2077.38,"endTime":2079.8900000000003,"body":"be even less productive."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2080.1600000000003,"endTime":2082.0400000000004,"body":"And you"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2080.1600000000003,"endTime":2082.0400000000004,"body":"use a really interesting word"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2082.0400000000004,"endTime":2083.8300000000004,"body":"there, level the conversation."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2083.8300000000004,"endTime":2086.1000000000004,"body":"And I think there's kind of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2083.8300000000004,"endTime":2086.1000000000004,"body":"two ways of thinking of that."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2086.21,"endTime":2088.46,"body":"Level in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2086.21,"endTime":2088.46,"body":"emotional level, which"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2088.46,"endTime":2089.5,"body":"you've spoken about."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2089.7900000000004,"endTime":2092.25,"body":"But I think there's another"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2089.7900000000004,"endTime":2092.25,"body":"piece, which is, as the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2092.25,"endTime":2095.925,"body":"project manager, in some"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2092.25,"endTime":2095.925,"body":"ways, even when you're not a"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2095.925,"endTime":2099.105,"body":"direct line manager, there's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2095.925,"endTime":2099.105,"body":"something about status there."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2099.295,"endTime":2099.815,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2099.855,"endTime":2102.835,"body":"And we are, as humans,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2099.855,"endTime":2102.835,"body":"acutely aware of status too."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2102.8450000000003,"endTime":2104.315,"body":"So if you ask him, where is it?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2104.3250000000003,"endTime":2105.135,"body":"Why is it not there?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2105.135,"endTime":2107.2250000000004,"body":"It's like pulling rank,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2105.135,"endTime":2107.2250000000004,"body":"being a bit parental."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2107.4750000000004,"endTime":2107.9350000000004,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2107.9750000000004,"endTime":2111.2650000000003,"body":"And that of course will also"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2107.9750000000004,"endTime":2111.2650000000003,"body":"evoke a response from them."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2111.2850000000003,"endTime":2114.125,"body":"So there's something about how"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2111.2850000000003,"endTime":2114.125,"body":"do I keep it level in terms of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2114.125,"endTime":2115.565,"body":"we're on the same side here?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2115.795,"endTime":2116.315,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2116.315,"endTime":2117.8650000000002,"body":"It's disappointing for me."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2118.005,"endTime":2118.4950000000003,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2118.5350000000003,"endTime":2120.4350000000004,"body":"It's probably"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2118.5350000000003,"endTime":2120.4350000000004,"body":"embarrassing for you."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2120.4950000000003,"endTime":2122.0150000000003,"body":"And what are we"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2120.4950000000003,"endTime":2122.0150000000003,"body":"going to do about it?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2122.425,"endTime":2124.605,"body":"Yeah, I like how you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2122.425,"endTime":2124.605,"body":"framed that, and it reminds me"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2124.605,"endTime":2127.5750000000003,"body":"of something as well, because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2124.605,"endTime":2127.5750000000003,"body":"this exact scenario, I've seen"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2127.5750000000003,"endTime":2130.4950000000003,"body":"it happen a lot, especially"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2127.5750000000003,"endTime":2130.4950000000003,"body":"with, like, folks who are not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2130.4950000000003,"endTime":2132.525,"body":"necessarily part of the core"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2130.4950000000003,"endTime":2132.525,"body":"team, either they're a bit"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2132.5350000000003,"endTime":2135.3050000000003,"body":"tangential to the team, they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2132.5350000000003,"endTime":2135.3050000000003,"body":"might be a near short team,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2135.485,"endTime":2139.2050000000004,"body":"and they might say yes because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2135.485,"endTime":2139.2050000000004,"body":"they literally feel like their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2139.2050000000004,"endTime":2142.4950000000003,"body":"sort of job would be at risk if"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2139.2050000000004,"endTime":2142.4950000000003,"body":"they said, no, I can't do this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2142.7850000000003,"endTime":2144.925,"body":"That's, our organization"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2142.7850000000003,"endTime":2144.925,"body":"would be like, okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2144.925,"endTime":2146.895,"body":"we're going to end your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2144.925,"endTime":2146.895,"body":"contract and get someone who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2146.895,"endTime":2150.2250000000004,"body":"can do it or it's actually a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2146.895,"endTime":2150.2250000000004,"body":"legitimate survival threat."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2150.385,"endTime":2153.085,"body":"And I see it happen a lot"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2150.385,"endTime":2153.085,"body":"to sort of, this fear of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2153.145,"endTime":2156.224,"body":"client or boss where it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2153.145,"endTime":2156.224,"body":"the policy almost, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2156.224,"endTime":2157.9950000000003,"body":"Is say yes, we'll"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2156.224,"endTime":2157.9950000000003,"body":"figure it out later."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2159.155,"endTime":2160.6150000000002,"body":"But I think"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2159.155,"endTime":2160.6150000000002,"body":"you also say that another"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2160.6150000000002,"endTime":2163.5550000000003,"body":"thing in that scenario,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2160.6150000000002,"endTime":2163.5550000000003,"body":"which is so interesting."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2163.8900000000003,"endTime":2166.6200000000003,"body":"And that is, if we can go"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2163.8900000000003,"endTime":2166.6200000000003,"body":"into it with our thinking"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2166.6200000000003,"endTime":2170.6400000000003,"body":"brain more online, I think"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2166.6200000000003,"endTime":2170.6400000000003,"body":"we also listen better."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2171.5950000000003,"endTime":2174.7250000000004,"body":"And then we probably are better"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2171.5950000000003,"endTime":2174.7250000000004,"body":"able to spot, well, they seem"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2174.7250000000004,"endTime":2177.675,"body":"to be saying yes, but they"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2174.7250000000004,"endTime":2177.675,"body":"don't seem to be very sure."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2177.815,"endTime":2180.6150000000002,"body":"And then that leads to a, can"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2177.815,"endTime":2180.6150000000002,"body":"lead to a whole load of things,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2180.6150000000002,"endTime":2182.3250000000003,"body":"which is about asking questions."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2182.335,"endTime":2185.534,"body":"So which bit of this are you"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2182.335,"endTime":2185.534,"body":"not quite so sure about, for"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2185.5350000000003,"endTime":2189.724,"body":"example, or what would it take"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2185.5350000000003,"endTime":2189.724,"body":"for you to be sure about that?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2190.0440000000003,"endTime":2193.125,"body":"So that you're jointly coaching"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2190.0440000000003,"endTime":2193.125,"body":"and building each other's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2193.125,"endTime":2195.525,"body":"understanding, but it's all"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2193.125,"endTime":2195.525,"body":"about being able to, I would"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2195.525,"endTime":2199.145,"body":"say, inquire, ask good quality"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2195.525,"endTime":2199.145,"body":"questions because there was"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2199.155,"endTime":2203.175,"body":"something about the interaction"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2199.155,"endTime":2203.175,"body":"that indicated maybe it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2203.175,"endTime":2206.565,"body":"quite as straightforward as"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2203.175,"endTime":2206.565,"body":"you hoped it was, or that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2206.565,"endTime":2208.7940000000003,"body":"you would not have picked"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2206.565,"endTime":2208.7940000000003,"body":"up if you're going too fast."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2209.065,"endTime":2209.8250000000003,"body":"Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2210.23,"endTime":2212.4900000000002,"body":"I like that because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2210.23,"endTime":2212.4900000000002,"body":"some folks will approach it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2212.4900000000002,"endTime":2215.4900000000002,"body":"with sort of a more cynical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2212.4900000000002,"endTime":2215.4900000000002,"body":"lens, right, like, I'm gonna ask"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2215.4900000000002,"endTime":2219.13,"body":"these cynical, skeptic questions"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2215.4900000000002,"endTime":2219.13,"body":"to try and get to the bottom"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2219.13,"endTime":2222.4900000000002,"body":"of something, but I like the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2219.13,"endTime":2222.4900000000002,"body":"framing that it's like, let me"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2222.829,"endTime":2227.2690000000002,"body":"ask and sort of probe, almost"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2222.829,"endTime":2227.2690000000002,"body":"from an empathetic perspective,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2227.44,"endTime":2229.57,"body":"to understand some of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2227.44,"endTime":2229.57,"body":"cues that we're picking out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2229.57,"endTime":2231.09,"body":"We're like, okay, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2231.1000000000004,"endTime":2232.65,"body":"It doesn't sound"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2231.1000000000004,"endTime":2232.65,"body":"like a sure thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2232.65,"endTime":2235.8,"body":"They're saying yes, but like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2232.65,"endTime":2235.8,"body":"let me ask more questions, not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2235.8,"endTime":2238.96,"body":"to interrogate them, not to put"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2235.8,"endTime":2238.96,"body":"them, into the stress state."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2239.1200000000003,"endTime":2242.21,"body":"But frankly, to just avoid"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2239.1200000000003,"endTime":2242.21,"body":"that conversation later on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2242.21,"endTime":2244.25,"body":"when you're like, well, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2242.21,"endTime":2244.25,"body":"said you'd do it when we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2244.25,"endTime":2245.19,"body":"were in that group setting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2245.28,"endTime":2246.9,"body":"And they're like, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2245.28,"endTime":2246.9,"body":"well, I was afraid."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2246.9,"endTime":2248.3900000000003,"body":"If they're"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2246.9,"endTime":2248.3900000000003,"body":"brave enough to tell you that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2248.61,"endTime":2249.76,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2248.61,"endTime":2249.76,"body":"well, yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2250.0,"endTime":2251.0,"body":"Or"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2250.0,"endTime":2251.0,"body":"if they even knew it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2251.1400000000003,"endTime":2251.6800000000003,"body":"That's fair."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2252.13,"endTime":2254.53,"body":"I wonder if we can shift"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2252.13,"endTime":2254.53,"body":"on to the second scenario,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2254.67,"endTime":2255.61,"body":"this is a common one."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2255.71,"endTime":2258.0600000000004,"body":"I think it has a lot of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2255.71,"endTime":2258.0600000000004,"body":"parallels too, but, it's when a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2258.0600000000004,"endTime":2262.02,"body":"team member reports that work is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2258.0600000000004,"endTime":2262.02,"body":"progressing as planned until the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2262.02,"endTime":2264.36,"body":"day before it's due, and then"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2262.02,"endTime":2264.36,"body":"suddenly they start bringing up"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2264.36,"endTime":2265.6400000000003,"body":"all the problems to the surface."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2265.6800000000003,"endTime":2268.01,"body":"And I think a lot of project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2265.6800000000003,"endTime":2268.01,"body":"managers, bring this to me,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2268.05,"endTime":2269.46,"body":"I've experienced it as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2269.57,"endTime":2273.38,"body":"There's always that like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2269.57,"endTime":2273.38,"body":"everything is 70% done, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2273.4,"endTime":2276.25,"body":"from day one until it hits"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2273.4,"endTime":2276.25,"body":"70% and then it stalls."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2276.4300000000003,"endTime":2276.9100000000003,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2277.02,"endTime":2278.15,"body":"Maybe we can unpack"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2277.02,"endTime":2278.15,"body":"that a little bit."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2278.15,"endTime":2280.5600000000004,"body":"Well, I,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2278.15,"endTime":2280.5600000000004,"body":"yeah, I'm interested because"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2280.9500000000003,"endTime":2283.0,"body":"on the one hand you're saying"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2280.9500000000003,"endTime":2283.0,"body":"there's a pattern there."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2283.01,"endTime":2287.77,"body":"It's always like this and yet"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2283.01,"endTime":2287.77,"body":"we know it's always like this"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2287.92,"endTime":2290.5600000000004,"body":"and we take it at face value"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2287.92,"endTime":2290.5600000000004,"body":"and then get disappointed."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2290.5600000000004,"endTime":2293.7650000000003,"body":"And again, so there's something"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2290.5600000000004,"endTime":2293.7650000000003,"body":"I think about learning to not"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2293.985,"endTime":2296.7450000000003,"body":"necessarily take things exactly"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2293.985,"endTime":2296.7450000000003,"body":"as they're presented to you."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2296.7450000000003,"endTime":2299.625,"body":"So allowing yourself enough"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2296.7450000000003,"endTime":2299.625,"body":"space to go, what is my gut"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2299.625,"endTime":2301.2850000000003,"body":"telling me ahead of time?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2301.295,"endTime":2304.485,"body":"Do I believe it or am I"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2301.295,"endTime":2304.485,"body":"so desperate to hear that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2304.485,"endTime":2307.105,"body":"it's 70% or 90% done that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2304.485,"endTime":2307.105,"body":"I'm going to go with it?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2307.215,"endTime":2310.085,"body":"So, and I think learning"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2307.215,"endTime":2310.085,"body":"to ask that question, what"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2310.085,"endTime":2311.4950000000003,"body":"do I really think here?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2311.755,"endTime":2314.585,"body":"And then giving yourself"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2311.755,"endTime":2314.585,"body":"space to listen to yourself"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2314.795,"endTime":2315.9550000000004,"body":"answer, what do I really think?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2315.9750000000004,"endTime":2318.0550000000003,"body":"Do I really believe that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2315.9750000000004,"endTime":2318.0550000000003,"body":"can be really helpful?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2318.4950000000003,"endTime":2319.945,"body":"I think it's really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2318.4950000000003,"endTime":2319.945,"body":"interesting that, sort of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2320.0350000000003,"endTime":2322.835,"body":"the reasons why you might take"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2320.0350000000003,"endTime":2322.835,"body":"it at face value might have a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2322.835,"endTime":2325.255,"body":"lot more to do with your own"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2322.835,"endTime":2325.255,"body":"stress levels than it does"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2325.255,"endTime":2326.4350000000004,"body":"about project management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2326.565,"endTime":2328.6850000000004,"body":"There's almost this thing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2326.565,"endTime":2328.6850000000004,"body":"where it's like, okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2328.875,"endTime":2330.8450000000003,"body":"50% of the time has elapsed."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2330.9150000000004,"endTime":2332.8250000000003,"body":"50% of the progress"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2330.9150000000004,"endTime":2332.8250000000003,"body":"should be made."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2333.0150000000003,"endTime":2335.155,"body":"They're saying 50% of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2333.0150000000003,"endTime":2335.155,"body":"progress is made because,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2335.2050000000004,"endTime":2336.3450000000003,"body":"they want to look on track."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2336.545,"endTime":2338.4750000000004,"body":"And you don't want to ask"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2336.545,"endTime":2338.4750000000004,"body":"any more questions because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2338.525,"endTime":2339.795,"body":"what if it's not, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2339.895,"endTime":2342.2850000000003,"body":"But I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2339.895,"endTime":2342.2850000000003,"body":"sort of running towards"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2342.425,"endTime":2345.065,"body":"a difficult conversation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2342.425,"endTime":2345.065,"body":"that, I think is a great"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2345.065,"endTime":2346.3450000000003,"body":"skill for a project manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2346.385,"endTime":2348.2650000000003,"body":"And again, coming back to what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2346.385,"endTime":2348.2650000000003,"body":"you said in the first scenario,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2348.2650000000003,"endTime":2350.945,"body":"it's like, it's probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2348.2650000000003,"endTime":2350.945,"body":"just, asking a few of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2350.945,"endTime":2354.275,"body":"right questions and creating"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2350.945,"endTime":2354.275,"body":"that context and leveling"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2354.3050000000003,"endTime":2358.735,"body":"the conversation so that it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2354.3050000000003,"endTime":2358.735,"body":"not like 50%, are you sure?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2358.8450000000003,"endTime":2360.0950000000003,"body":"But I"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2358.8450000000003,"endTime":2360.0950000000003,"body":"think in different ways."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2360.53,"endTime":2362.5,"body":"Is the percentage"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2360.53,"endTime":2362.5,"body":"helpful at all?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2362.6000000000004,"endTime":2362.9700000000003,"body":"Fair."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2362.9900000000002,"endTime":2363.4700000000003,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2363.65,"endTime":2365.11,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2363.65,"endTime":2365.11,"body":"actually, maybe the bigger"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2365.1800000000003,"endTime":2368.2900000000004,"body":"thing to be asking is, you"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2365.1800000000003,"endTime":2368.2900000000004,"body":"said you're going to do this."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2368.6600000000003,"endTime":2370.27,"body":"So what are the showstoppers?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2370.27,"endTime":2371.3300000000004,"body":"What's going to stop you?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2371.5800000000004,"endTime":2374.36,"body":"And I think you had that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2371.5800000000004,"endTime":2374.36,"body":"conversation with Josh Ramirez"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2374.4100000000003,"endTime":2377.19,"body":"a bit when you spoke with"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2374.4100000000003,"endTime":2377.19,"body":"him on a previous podcast."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2377.34,"endTime":2380.23,"body":"So there's sharper questions to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2377.34,"endTime":2380.23,"body":"be asking than the shortcut one"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2380.46,"endTime":2383.3900000000003,"body":"percent, which doesn't give you"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2380.46,"endTime":2383.3900000000003,"body":"much information at all often."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2383.61,"endTime":2385.23,"body":"And even just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2383.61,"endTime":2385.23,"body":"the nature of work, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2385.23,"endTime":2388.02,"body":"Like, I mean, for a lot of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2385.23,"endTime":2388.02,"body":"things, home renovations,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2388.0400000000004,"endTime":2389.4900000000002,"body":"building IKEA furniture, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2389.4900000000002,"endTime":2392.42,"body":"Like the first few steps are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2389.4900000000002,"endTime":2392.42,"body":"hard and then the middle bit"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2392.4500000000003,"endTime":2394.4300000000003,"body":"is somewhat easy, probably."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2394.71,"endTime":2396.3500000000004,"body":"And then all the problems"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2394.71,"endTime":2396.3500000000004,"body":"actually are at the end."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2396.53,"endTime":2399.26,"body":"You're like, wait a minute, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2396.53,"endTime":2399.26,"body":"bolted this in upside down or,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2399.42,"endTime":2401.5890000000004,"body":"like it doesn't actually fit"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2399.42,"endTime":2401.5890000000004,"body":"because I didn't measure it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2401.59,"endTime":2404.57,"body":"And it's actually natural for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2401.59,"endTime":2404.57,"body":"problems to happen at the end."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2404.8450000000003,"endTime":2406.8450000000003,"body":"And I think, yeah, the only"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2404.8450000000003,"endTime":2406.8450000000003,"body":"way we can sort of address"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2406.8450000000003,"endTime":2410.125,"body":"that is to recognize it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2406.8450000000003,"endTime":2410.125,"body":"and ask smarter questions"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2410.135,"endTime":2411.3650000000002,"body":"than, percent complete."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2411.7050000000004,"endTime":2413.155,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2411.7050000000004,"endTime":2413.155,"body":"but I think another very"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2413.1650000000004,"endTime":2416.0550000000003,"body":"smart question for every"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2413.1650000000004,"endTime":2416.0550000000003,"body":"project manager to be asking"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2416.0550000000003,"endTime":2420.355,"body":"themselves is where am I"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2416.0550000000003,"endTime":2420.355,"body":"feeling most exposed here?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2420.465,"endTime":2422.579,"body":"Because that's the thing"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2420.465,"endTime":2422.579,"body":"you need the answer to."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2422.7900000000004,"endTime":2424.36,"body":"What will now reassure me?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2424.51,"endTime":2425.4100000000003,"body":"Does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2425.6400000000003,"endTime":2426.42,"body":"Yeah, no, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2426.4300000000003,"endTime":2428.52,"body":"And it's funny because, we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2426.4300000000003,"endTime":2428.52,"body":"keep bringing it back to risk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2428.52,"endTime":2430.73,"body":"management, and like, risk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2428.52,"endTime":2430.73,"body":"management, in the circles"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2430.73,"endTime":2432.82,"body":"I travel in is such a like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2430.73,"endTime":2432.82,"body":"I don't know, it's this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2432.8500000000004,"endTime":2436.1400000000003,"body":"technical, almost like, it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2432.8500000000004,"endTime":2436.1400000000003,"body":"a very unsexy thing to do,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2436.1400000000003,"endTime":2438.07,"body":"and it's hard, and nobody"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2436.1400000000003,"endTime":2438.07,"body":"wants to talk about things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2438.07,"endTime":2438.8500000000004,"body":"that are going to go wrong."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2438.86,"endTime":2441.09,"body":"But when you frame it like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2438.86,"endTime":2441.09,"body":"that, it's like, where are we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2441.09,"endTime":2444.2400000000002,"body":"feeling the most exposed and,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2441.09,"endTime":2444.2400000000002,"body":"to have a sort of emotional"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2444.2400000000002,"endTime":2446.94,"body":"maturity and the relationship"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2444.2400000000002,"endTime":2446.94,"body":"and the psychological safety"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2446.94,"endTime":2449.3700000000003,"body":"to have that conversation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2446.94,"endTime":2449.3700000000003,"body":"like that with the team?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2449.5600000000004,"endTime":2452.5600000000004,"body":"I think is much more productive"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2449.5600000000004,"endTime":2452.5600000000004,"body":"than, rank this risk and then"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2452.5600000000004,"endTime":2454.9100000000003,"body":"we're going to do qualitative"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2452.5600000000004,"endTime":2454.9100000000003,"body":"and quantitative analysis on it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2454.9500000000003,"endTime":2456.9500000000003,"body":"We can do those things, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2454.9500000000003,"endTime":2456.9500000000003,"body":"ultimately it comes down"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2456.9500000000003,"endTime":2459.52,"body":"to, yeah, what are those"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2456.9500000000003,"endTime":2459.52,"body":"things where we feel that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2459.61,"endTime":2460.53,"body":"risk of being exposed?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2460.8100000000004,"endTime":2461.3900000000003,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2461.4700000000003,"endTime":2462.9500000000003,"body":"And those things move."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2463.2200000000003,"endTime":2465.27,"body":"The world moves around"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2463.2200000000003,"endTime":2465.27,"body":"us so that what I was"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2465.32,"endTime":2467.8,"body":"most exposed about last"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2465.32,"endTime":2467.8,"body":"week will not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2467.8,"endTime":2468.9300000000003,"body":"be the same next week."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2469.0400000000004,"endTime":2469.48,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2469.5400000000004,"endTime":2469.7900000000004,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2469.7900000000004,"endTime":2470.27,"body":"Fair."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2471.1200000000003,"endTime":2473.3300000000004,"body":"Coming back to that crystal"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2471.1200000000003,"endTime":2473.3300000000004,"body":"balling for the future, right?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2473.3300000000004,"endTime":2475.25,"body":"I hate to tell you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2475.5,"endTime":2476.4100000000003,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2475.5,"endTime":2476.4100000000003,"body":"hard to have a plan."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2476.42,"endTime":2477.44,"body":"Everything is in fog."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2477.44,"endTime":2480.1000000000004,"body":"We live in an uncertain"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2477.44,"endTime":2480.1000000000004,"body":"and volatile world."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2481.86,"endTime":2483.2200000000003,"body":"All right, last scenario."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2483.48,"endTime":2485.6400000000003,"body":"And I think it draws"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2483.48,"endTime":2485.6400000000003,"body":"on the same concepts."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2485.6600000000003,"endTime":2486.86,"body":"But the scenario is this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2487.3050000000003,"endTime":2490.695,"body":"A team member shuts down ideas"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2487.3050000000003,"endTime":2490.695,"body":"right away, saying that they're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2490.7050000000004,"endTime":2492.9550000000004,"body":"impossible, or that they don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2490.7050000000004,"endTime":2492.9550000000004,"body":"have enough information to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2492.9550000000004,"endTime":2495.755,"body":"possibly agree to something,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2492.9550000000004,"endTime":2495.755,"body":"even when they know it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2495.755,"endTime":2497.5750000000003,"body":"possible, and maybe so do we."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2498.0750000000003,"endTime":2502.145,"body":"And in that"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2498.0750000000003,"endTime":2502.145,"body":"scenario, is it the pattern of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2502.145,"endTime":2505.235,"body":"this happening again and again,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2502.145,"endTime":2505.235,"body":"which is really disturbing?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2505.7650000000003,"endTime":2507.125,"body":"It's funny you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2505.7650000000003,"endTime":2507.125,"body":"say that, because like, when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2507.125,"endTime":2509.0750000000003,"body":"I'm thinking about some of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2507.125,"endTime":2509.0750000000003,"body":"the things that map to my"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2509.0750000000003,"endTime":2512.0750000000003,"body":"experiences, it's like, not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2509.0750000000003,"endTime":2512.0750000000003,"body":"a pattern of this individual"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2512.0750000000003,"endTime":2514.965,"body":"shutting down ideas, but a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2512.0750000000003,"endTime":2514.965,"body":"pattern of the trauma that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2514.965,"endTime":2517.355,"body":"they've probably felt over"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2514.965,"endTime":2517.355,"body":"and over again, that this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2517.3650000000002,"endTime":2518.8250000000003,"body":"is their initial response."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2519.0950000000003,"endTime":2522.655,"body":"Not that, like, this is not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2519.0950000000003,"endTime":2522.655,"body":"a sort of repeat offender, so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2522.655,"endTime":2524.625,"body":"much as it is a repeat victim."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2524.815,"endTime":2525.4550000000004,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2525.795,"endTime":2526.9750000000004,"body":"And what does that tell you?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2527.315,"endTime":2530.25,"body":"I mean, for me,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2527.315,"endTime":2530.25,"body":"it's okay, well, either if"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2530.25,"endTime":2533.32,"body":"it's someone I'm working with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2530.25,"endTime":2533.32,"body":"often, well then I really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2533.3300000000004,"endTime":2536.7200000000003,"body":"haven't created, that sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2533.3300000000004,"endTime":2536.7200000000003,"body":"level of safety in projects and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2536.7200000000003,"endTime":2539.4900000000002,"body":"I've probably should be more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2536.7200000000003,"endTime":2539.4900000000002,"body":"aware that I've probably burned"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2539.4900000000002,"endTime":2542.5600000000004,"body":"them in the past in terms of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2539.4900000000002,"endTime":2542.5600000000004,"body":"triggering stress and taking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2542.5600000000004,"endTime":2543.88,"body":"their thinking brain offline."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2544.01,"endTime":2545.82,"body":"But if it's beyond that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2544.01,"endTime":2545.82,"body":"and and I say this all the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2545.8300000000004,"endTime":2547.9500000000003,"body":"time, there's a lot of bad"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2545.8300000000004,"endTime":2547.9500000000003,"body":"project managers out there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2548.1000000000004,"endTime":2549.9700000000003,"body":"And there's a lot of, team"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2548.1000000000004,"endTime":2549.9700000000003,"body":"members who've worked on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2549.9700000000003,"endTime":2554.275,"body":"projects who will have, trauma"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2549.9700000000003,"endTime":2554.275,"body":"about working with project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2554.275,"endTime":2556.385,"body":"managers who stood there and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2554.275,"endTime":2556.385,"body":"cracked the whip and asked them"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2556.385,"endTime":2560.135,"body":"why isn't it 95% done, you when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2556.385,"endTime":2560.135,"body":"we're 90% of the way there,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2560.1650000000004,"endTime":2564.155,"body":"like, I think there's this sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2560.1650000000004,"endTime":2564.155,"body":"of defensive mechanism that gets"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2564.155,"endTime":2568.145,"body":"built that, isn't permanent,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2564.155,"endTime":2568.145,"body":"but it might take some time to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2568.145,"endTime":2569.7850000000003,"body":"sort of take those walls down."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2569.885,"endTime":2571.3050000000003,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2569.885,"endTime":2571.3050000000003,"body":"that's so interesting."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2571.315,"endTime":2572.2850000000003,"body":"You used the trauma word."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2573.0750000000003,"endTime":2576.6150000000002,"body":"And I want to say, be"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2573.0750000000003,"endTime":2576.6150000000002,"body":"careful about using it."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2576.755,"endTime":2577.5950000000003,"body":"It's a big word."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2577.5950000000003,"endTime":2579.395,"body":"I'm not saying it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2577.5950000000003,"endTime":2579.395,"body":"exist, but it's a big word"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2579.465,"endTime":2582.1850000000004,"body":"and I think that we tend"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2579.465,"endTime":2582.1850000000004,"body":"to use it a bit loosely."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2582.385,"endTime":2587.125,"body":"What I would say for all of us"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2582.385,"endTime":2587.125,"body":"is a very human response is our"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2587.125,"endTime":2588.7650000000003,"body":"brain is a predicting machine."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2589.1150000000002,"endTime":2592.895,"body":"And so we tend to take our"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2589.1150000000002,"endTime":2592.895,"body":"past experiences and assume"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2593.065,"endTime":2595.145,"body":"that's what's about to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2593.065,"endTime":2595.145,"body":"play out in front of us and"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2595.145,"endTime":2596.3650000000002,"body":"that dictates our response."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2596.9900000000002,"endTime":2600.6200000000003,"body":"And therefore to think this is"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2596.9900000000002,"endTime":2600.6200000000003,"body":"a kind of repeating pattern of"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2600.65,"endTime":2603.6800000000003,"body":"unsatisfactory conversation,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2600.65,"endTime":2603.6800000000003,"body":"or you anticipate it."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2603.8500000000004,"endTime":2606.17,"body":"The question is, how do I"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2603.8500000000004,"endTime":2606.17,"body":"signal that this is going to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2606.1800000000003,"endTime":2607.6400000000003,"body":"be a different conversation?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2607.88,"endTime":2610.25,"body":"So maybe it's not through"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2607.88,"endTime":2610.25,"body":"having it through the routine"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2610.28,"endTime":2613.17,"body":"team school, or we go out"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2610.28,"endTime":2613.17,"body":"for, I don't know, to the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2613.36,"endTime":2616.0,"body":"cafe if you meet on, if you're"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2613.36,"endTime":2616.0,"body":"not online all the time."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2616.2400000000002,"endTime":2619.4900000000002,"body":"How can you set it up to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2616.2400000000002,"endTime":2619.4900000000002,"body":"signal that this is different?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2619.59,"endTime":2621.8700000000003,"body":"And how can you frame"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2619.59,"endTime":2621.8700000000003,"body":"the conversation to say,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2621.8700000000003,"endTime":2624.01,"body":"look, I don't want to be"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2621.8700000000003,"endTime":2624.01,"body":"getting into that pattern."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2624.44,"endTime":2627.1000000000004,"body":"Before you even start the"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2624.44,"endTime":2627.1000000000004,"body":"converse, does that make sense?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2627.11,"endTime":2628.2000000000003,"body":"So it becomes a framing."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2628.2000000000003,"endTime":2629.27,"body":"It's very different, I think."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2629.8300000000004,"endTime":2631.8100000000004,"body":"I love that so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2629.8300000000004,"endTime":2631.8100000000004,"body":"much because, when we're,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2631.9700000000003,"endTime":2634.3300000000004,"body":"like, thinking about it,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2631.9700000000003,"endTime":2634.3300000000004,"body":"like, biologically, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2634.3300000000004,"endTime":2637.4900000000002,"body":"it makes sense, like, the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2634.3300000000004,"endTime":2637.4900000000002,"body":"survival instinct or, our"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2637.4900000000002,"endTime":2641.03,"body":"survival mechanisms are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2637.4900000000002,"endTime":2641.03,"body":"based on recognizing patterns"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2641.17,"endTime":2643.57,"body":"and having, strategies to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2641.17,"endTime":2643.57,"body":"deal with those patterns."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2644.0,"endTime":2646.19,"body":"I love that it's like, this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2644.0,"endTime":2646.19,"body":"is not that pattern, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2646.2000000000003,"endTime":2649.6800000000003,"body":"Like that's immediately sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2646.2000000000003,"endTime":2649.6800000000003,"body":"of, indicating to that person's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2649.6800000000003,"endTime":2651.4300000000003,"body":"brain that this is different."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2651.4300000000003,"endTime":2653.75,"body":"And yeah, finding a way"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2651.4300000000003,"endTime":2653.75,"body":"to say that out loud too,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2653.8100000000004,"endTime":2655.73,"body":"and being clear about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2653.8100000000004,"endTime":2655.73,"body":"it, changing the context"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2656.17,"endTime":2657.36,"body":"and being the difference."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2657.6600000000003,"endTime":2657.9,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2657.9,"endTime":2660.23,"body":"And sometimes saying, we've"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2657.9,"endTime":2660.23,"body":"still not managed to have this"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2660.23,"endTime":2661.9700000000003,"body":"as a successful conversation."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2662.1600000000003,"endTime":2663.7000000000003,"body":"So how can we do it differently?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2663.7000000000003,"endTime":2665.9900000000002,"body":"What will work for you and what"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2663.7000000000003,"endTime":2665.9900000000002,"body":"will work for me and how are we"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2665.9900000000002,"endTime":2667.38,"body":"going to have the conversation?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2667.5800000000004,"endTime":2670.92,"body":"So taking some time to decide"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2667.5800000000004,"endTime":2670.92,"body":"that jointly, I think can"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2670.92,"endTime":2673.9700000000003,"body":"be really useful rather than"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2670.92,"endTime":2673.9700000000003,"body":"trying to be the mind reader."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2674.01,"endTime":2676.0400000000004,"body":"I always caution"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2674.01,"endTime":2676.0400000000004,"body":"project managers about"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2676.0400000000004,"endTime":2677.01,"body":"being mind readers."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2677.34,"endTime":2680.0800000000004,"body":"You can't possibly know what's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2677.34,"endTime":2680.0800000000004,"body":"going on in everyone else's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2680.1000000000004,"endTime":2682.03,"body":"mind because you haven't"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2680.1000000000004,"endTime":2682.03,"body":"got their life experiences."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2682.0600000000004,"endTime":2683.0400000000004,"body":"So just ask them."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2683.3900000000003,"endTime":2685.8700000000003,"body":"And if they know what's going"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2683.3900000000003,"endTime":2685.8700000000003,"body":"on for them, they'll tell"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2685.8700000000003,"endTime":2687.2400000000002,"body":"you, and sometimes they won't."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2687.2900000000004,"endTime":2689.63,"body":"But it's like, how can we do"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2687.2900000000004,"endTime":2689.63,"body":"this helpfully for both of us?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2690.11,"endTime":2690.3300000000004,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2690.6600000000003,"endTime":2692.4700000000003,"body":"And mind reading doesn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2690.6600000000003,"endTime":2692.4700000000003,"body":"build relationships."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2692.4700000000003,"endTime":2695.2200000000003,"body":"Well, at least not as quickly"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2692.4700000000003,"endTime":2695.2200000000003,"body":"as just having a conversation."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2695.7000000000003,"endTime":2696.11,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2696.4300000000003,"endTime":2697.7000000000003,"body":"It takes an awful lot of work."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2697.75,"endTime":2698.88,"body":"Too much work, I think."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2698.88,"endTime":2701.8300000000004,"body":"It's like, why subject"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2698.88,"endTime":2701.8300000000004,"body":"yourself to all that trouble?"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2702.48,"endTime":2705.0,"body":"You were awake for three hours"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2702.48,"endTime":2705.0,"body":"last night trying to work"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2705.0,"endTime":2705.5800000000004,"body":"out what they really think."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2705.6400000000003,"endTime":2707.1000000000004,"body":"It's like, no, just"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2705.6400000000003,"endTime":2707.1000000000004,"body":"ask them, will you?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2707.4500000000003,"endTime":2708.46,"body":"You could"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2707.4500000000003,"endTime":2708.46,"body":"have solved it in five."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2708.46,"endTime":2709.6400000000003,"body":"Don't torment yourself."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2710.38,"endTime":2712.119,"body":"I don't know the answer."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2712.1200000000003,"endTime":2712.6000000000004,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2712.7650000000003,"endTime":2713.565,"body":"That was awesome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2713.655,"endTime":2716.155,"body":"Thank you for humoring"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2713.655,"endTime":2716.155,"body":"me on that part with a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2716.155,"endTime":2717.925,"body":"little scenario orama."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2718.125,"endTime":2718.945,"body":"I think this has been great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2718.985,"endTime":2721.5350000000003,"body":"I was really excited to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2718.985,"endTime":2721.5350000000003,"body":"talking about this with you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2721.655,"endTime":2725.145,"body":"And I just love your approach"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2721.655,"endTime":2725.145,"body":"on it because it's so pragmatic."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2725.2650000000003,"endTime":2727.385,"body":"And I think we've proven"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2725.2650000000003,"endTime":2727.385,"body":"that throughout because,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2727.405,"endTime":2729.715,"body":"we spent a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2727.405,"endTime":2729.715,"body":"in, real world scenarios."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2729.775,"endTime":2732.5950000000003,"body":"And I think a lot of folks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2729.775,"endTime":2732.5950000000003,"body":"who think of these words as,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2732.7050000000004,"endTime":2735.925,"body":"being a bit too abstract and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2732.7050000000004,"endTime":2735.925,"body":"maybe a bit too theoretical to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2735.925,"endTime":2737.3450000000003,"body":"actually use in the real world."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2737.3450000000003,"endTime":2739.175,"body":"I think we've kind of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2737.3450000000003,"endTime":2739.175,"body":"proven that it's not."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2739.3450000000003,"endTime":2741.315,"body":"It just might take a different"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2739.3450000000003,"endTime":2741.315,"body":"approach and it's a bit of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2741.315,"endTime":2745.045,"body":"a different ROI on the time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2741.315,"endTime":2745.045,"body":"invested, whereas your instinct"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2745.065,"endTime":2747.4750000000004,"body":"might be just to push through"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2745.065,"endTime":2747.4750000000004,"body":"and keep going straight."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2747.6150000000002,"endTime":2749.905,"body":"Sometimes it is more productive"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2747.6150000000002,"endTime":2749.905,"body":"to sort of get that thinking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2749.9150000000004,"endTime":2752.965,"body":"brain back online so that the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2749.9150000000004,"endTime":2752.965,"body":"quality of work is better."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2753.145,"endTime":2756.1650000000004,"body":"The team dynamic is better,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2753.145,"endTime":2756.1650000000004,"body":"the collaboration effort is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2756.1650000000004,"endTime":2759.565,"body":"better, rather than just trying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2756.1650000000004,"endTime":2759.565,"body":"to cut corners and just, hit"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2759.565,"endTime":2762.0950000000003,"body":"that deadline even if everything"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2759.565,"endTime":2762.0950000000003,"body":"we deliver is terrible."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2764.195,"endTime":2766.5550000000003,"body":"We've all been"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2764.195,"endTime":2766.5550000000003,"body":"there and done that, I suspect."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2768.195,"endTime":2770.275,"body":"How many dead bodies"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2768.195,"endTime":2770.275,"body":"do we need before we"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2770.275,"endTime":2771.735,"body":"realize we can slow down?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2771.735,"endTime":2774.855,"body":"I mean, it's like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2771.735,"endTime":2774.855,"body":"a, yeah, tagline for humanity."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2776.7050000000004,"endTime":2778.485,"body":"Sometimes we just don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2776.7050000000004,"endTime":2778.485,"body":"know when to stop pushing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2779.2850000000003,"endTime":2779.905,"body":"No, it is great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2779.905,"endTime":2781.965,"body":"I really appreciate the work"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2779.905,"endTime":2781.965,"body":"that you're doing because,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2782.0550000000003,"endTime":2783.2850000000003,"body":"I think it is productive."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2783.2850000000003,"endTime":2786.4150000000004,"body":"I think it is taking it back"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2783.2850000000003,"endTime":2786.4150000000004,"body":"to, and not something fluffy"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2786.4150000000004,"endTime":2789.775,"body":"and flowery, but something"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2786.4150000000004,"endTime":2789.775,"body":"that is who we are and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2789.775,"endTime":2790.965,"body":"how we've gotten this far."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2791.005,"endTime":2794.425,"body":"And, there are many examples"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2791.005,"endTime":2794.425,"body":"in this world today of humans"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2794.6150000000002,"endTime":2798.38,"body":"pushing themselves too far, too"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2794.6150000000002,"endTime":2798.38,"body":"hard, expanding too quickly,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2798.4300000000003,"endTime":2801.4,"body":"being a bit too cutthroat,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2798.4300000000003,"endTime":2801.4,"body":"in the interest of whatever"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2801.4,"endTime":2803.0400000000004,"body":"winning or success looks like."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2803.2900000000004,"endTime":2806.3500000000004,"body":"And sometimes at the great"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2803.2900000000004,"endTime":2806.3500000000004,"body":"detriment to just what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2806.3500000000004,"endTime":2808.94,"body":"that fabric of humanity is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2806.3500000000004,"endTime":2808.94,"body":"as social creatures, so."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2809.09,"endTime":2811.03,"body":"And to"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2809.09,"endTime":2811.03,"body":"themselves, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2811.03,"endTime":2812.21,"body":"the other way as well."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2812.5400000000004,"endTime":2813.71,"body":"I suppose I'd add into that."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2813.86,"endTime":2815.57,"body":"We've touched on"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2813.86,"endTime":2815.57,"body":"a few frameworks."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2816.13,"endTime":2820.03,"body":"There's some really accessible"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2816.13,"endTime":2820.03,"body":"stuff which we'll talk about"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2820.0400000000004,"endTime":2822.4300000000003,"body":"things like, I don't know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2820.0400000000004,"endTime":2822.4300000000003,"body":"thinking immediately of the kind"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2822.4300000000003,"endTime":2826.2400000000002,"body":"of domains of social threats,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2822.4300000000003,"endTime":2826.2400000000002,"body":"so things like status autonomy,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2826.26,"endTime":2827.4300000000003,"body":"relationships, and so on."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2827.4300000000003,"endTime":2829.9100000000003,"body":"And then a few mnemonics"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2827.4300000000003,"endTime":2829.9100000000003,"body":"which go with it, which"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2829.9100000000003,"endTime":2833.25,"body":"can help people really"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2829.9100000000003,"endTime":2833.25,"body":"ground it into very doable"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2833.28,"endTime":2834.4,"body":"things to practice with."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2834.86,"endTime":2835.3500000000004,"body":"I like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2835.6000000000004,"endTime":2837.1400000000003,"body":"I'm going to ask you for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2835.6000000000004,"endTime":2837.1400000000003,"body":"some links and I'll pop"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2837.15,"endTime":2838.01,"body":"them in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2838.2200000000003,"endTime":2838.9900000000002,"body":"I can do that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2839.44,"endTime":2840.65,"body":"Carole, thanks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2839.44,"endTime":2840.65,"body":"so much for spending"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2840.65,"endTime":2841.3500000000004,"body":"time with me today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2841.3700000000003,"endTime":2842.63,"body":"This has been a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2842.67,"endTime":2844.9,"body":"I had a blast and every"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2842.67,"endTime":2844.9,"body":"conversation I have with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2844.9,"endTime":2846.0,"body":"you, just so insightful."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2846.5600000000004,"endTime":2847.52,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2846.5600000000004,"endTime":2847.52,"body":"thank you for that."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2847.55,"endTime":2850.2000000000003,"body":"And thank you for inviting me."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2850.32,"endTime":2854.4700000000003,"body":"It's a pleasure to be exploring"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2850.32,"endTime":2854.4700000000003,"body":"this area with you, Galen, and"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2854.4700000000003,"endTime":2856.55,"body":"just to hear your take as well."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2856.8,"endTime":2858.88,"body":"The world of digital project"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2856.8,"endTime":2858.88,"body":"management, which is one"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2858.88,"endTime":2861.8100000000004,"body":"that I know something of, but"},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2858.88,"endTime":2861.8100000000004,"body":"not nearly as much as you."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2861.8100000000004,"endTime":2862.94,"body":"So I've learned a lot too."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2863.1200000000003,"endTime":2863.7000000000003,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2863.9300000000003,"endTime":2864.7900000000004,"body":"It's a good exchange."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2864.8900000000003,"endTime":2867.0600000000004,"body":"I would love to have you back"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2864.8900000000003,"endTime":2867.0600000000004,"body":"and maybe we can do something"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2867.07,"endTime":2870.53,"body":"in our community as well because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2867.07,"endTime":2870.53,"body":"I think some of this stuff is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2870.7000000000003,"endTime":2873.4100000000003,"body":"very much top of mind for the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2870.7000000000003,"endTime":2873.4100000000003,"body":"folks in our community too."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2873.6800000000003,"endTime":2873.9100000000003,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2873.92,"endTime":2874.75,"body":"That would be fun."},{"speaker":"Carole Osterweil","startTime":2874.9300000000003,"endTime":2875.5,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2876.51,"endTime":2877.8100000000004,"body":"All right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2876.51,"endTime":2877.8100000000004,"body":"folks, there you have it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2877.9100000000003,"endTime":2880.05,"body":"As always, if you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2877.9100000000003,"endTime":2880.05,"body":"join the conversation with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2880.05,"endTime":2882.63,"body":"over a thousand like minded"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2880.05,"endTime":2882.63,"body":"project management champions,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2882.84,"endTime":2883.98,"body":"come join our collective."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2884.1400000000003,"endTime":2887.6400000000003,"body":"Head on over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2884.1400000000003,"endTime":2887.6400000000003,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com/membership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2887.6600000000003,"endTime":2888.23,"body":"to learn more."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2888.57,"endTime":2890.6200000000003,"body":"And if you like what you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2888.57,"endTime":2890.6200000000003,"body":"heard today, please subscribe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2890.6200000000003,"endTime":2894.1850000000004,"body":"and stay in touch on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2890.6200000000003,"endTime":2894.1850000000004,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2894.2050000000004,"endTime":2896.255,"body":"Until next time,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2894.2050000000004,"endTime":2896.255,"body":"thanks for listening."}]}