{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.060000000000002,"endTime":28.17,"body":"Hey folks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":27.060000000000002,"endTime":28.17,"body":"thanks for tuning in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.17,"endTime":30.72,"body":"My name is Galen Low with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.17,"endTime":30.72,"body":"the Digital Project Manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":30.87,"endTime":33.419,"body":"We are a community of digital"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":30.87,"endTime":33.419,"body":"professionals on a mission"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":33.419,"endTime":35.579,"body":"to help each other get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":33.419,"endTime":35.579,"body":"skilled, get confident, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":35.579,"endTime":38.13,"body":"get connected so that we can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":35.579,"endTime":38.13,"body":"amplify the value of 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instead"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":55.6,"endTime":57.339,"body":"of combative and opaque."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":57.870000000000005,"endTime":61.0,"body":"With me today is James"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":57.870000000000005,"endTime":61.0,"body":"Louttit, a former CIO and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":61.0,"endTime":63.26,"body":"project management champion"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":61.0,"endTime":63.26,"body":"who has gone from leading"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":63.26,"endTime":65.489,"body":"a team of project delivery"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":63.26,"endTime":65.489,"body":"professionals at one of the Big"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":65.5,"endTime":68.90899999999999,"body":"Four consultancies to founding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":65.5,"endTime":68.90899999999999,"body":"Impactful Project Management"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":69.069,"endTime":71.229,"body":"— a training organization"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":69.069,"endTime":71.229,"body":"that helps practicing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":71.229,"endTime":74.12,"body":"project leaders become more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":71.229,"endTime":74.12,"body":"effective in their projects."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":74.44,"endTime":76.17,"body":"James, thanks for being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":74.44,"endTime":76.17,"body":"with me here today."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":76.33,"endTime":77.38,"body":"Galen,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":76.33,"endTime":77.38,"body":"so nice to meet you."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":77.38,"endTime":78.15,"body":"Thanks for having me on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":78.39,"endTime":79.02000000000001,"body":"Yeah, this is great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":79.02000000000001,"endTime":81.78,"body":"And thank you for sending"},{"speaker":"Galen 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audiobook."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":93.18,"endTime":95.01,"body":"I mean, minus the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":93.18,"endTime":95.01,"body":"illustrations, I guess."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":95.69,"endTime":96.04,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":96.11,"endTime":96.35,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":96.35,"endTime":96.57000000000001,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":96.57000000000001,"endTime":98.55,"body":"So it was recorded over the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":96.57000000000001,"endTime":98.55,"body":"summer, but it took a little"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":98.55,"endTime":99.37,"body":"while to get out there."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":99.37,"endTime":102.6,"body":"And and now it's up there and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":99.37,"endTime":102.6,"body":"it'll be available on more"},{"speaker":"James 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Louttit","startTime":116.629,"endTime":118.599,"body":"So if you listen to the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":116.629,"endTime":118.599,"body":"rest of this podcast, you'll"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":118.599,"endTime":120.869,"body":"get a sense for what the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":118.599,"endTime":120.869,"body":"book is but I don't know."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":120.869,"endTime":122.559,"body":"I think I listen to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":120.869,"endTime":122.559,"body":"audio books all the time."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":122.559,"endTime":122.959,"body":"I love them."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":123.229,"endTime":125.279,"body":"I think they're a great"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":123.229,"endTime":125.279,"body":"way to consume, along"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":125.279,"endTime":127.869,"body":"with podcasts, to consume"},{"speaker":"James 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reading"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":137.72899999999998,"endTime":139.839,"body":"out, I think you can have a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":137.72899999999998,"endTime":139.839,"body":"bit of fun with it as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":140.164,"endTime":140.79399999999998,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":140.964,"endTime":141.324,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":141.324,"endTime":143.054,"body":"I can't wait to listen"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":141.324,"endTime":143.054,"body":"to that a little bit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":143.304,"endTime":144.804,"body":"Today we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":143.304,"endTime":144.804,"body":"something that you do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":144.844,"endTime":147.06400000000002,"body":"talk about in the book,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":144.844,"endTime":147.06400000000002,"body":"which is prioritization."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":147.404,"endTime":150.644,"body":"I thought maybe I'd just start"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":147.404,"endTime":150.644,"body":"off with one big hot question."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":150.994,"endTime":154.324,"body":"And the question is, what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":150.994,"endTime":154.324,"body":"is it about prioritization"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":154.354,"endTime":156.744,"body":"that makes it so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":154.354,"endTime":156.744,"body":"controversial on a project?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":156.984,"endTime":159.064,"body":"Why is it something that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":156.984,"endTime":159.064,"body":"so hard to get right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":159.419,"endTime":159.709,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":159.709,"endTime":162.799,"body":"It's really hard because, and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":159.709,"endTime":162.799,"body":"I've seen this, I work with lots"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":162.799,"endTime":165.469,"body":"of different companies now, but"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":162.799,"endTime":165.469,"body":"I saw this in the company when I"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":165.469,"endTime":168.579,"body":"was delivering projects as well,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":165.469,"endTime":168.579,"body":"is that it's very difficult to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":168.579,"endTime":172.419,"body":"explain to everybody else why"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":168.579,"endTime":172.419,"body":"your thing is important, but"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":172.419,"endTime":173.519,"body":"everyone feels they have to."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":173.839,"endTime":176.699,"body":"And quite often it comes down"},{"speaker":"James 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projects."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":191.274,"endTime":193.704,"body":"For me, there's an infinite"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":191.274,"endTime":193.704,"body":"amount of work, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":193.704,"endTime":194.754,"body":"There's always an"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":193.704,"endTime":194.754,"body":"infinite amount of work."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":195.124,"endTime":197.554,"body":"If I'm not doing anything,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":195.124,"endTime":197.554,"body":"if I've run out of work, I'm"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":197.554,"endTime":200.034,"body":"going to think of things to do,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":197.554,"endTime":200.034,"body":"right, that are going to help me"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":200.034,"endTime":202.564,"body":"achieve the outcomes of whatever"},{"speaker":"James 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Louttit","startTime":227.879,"endTime":230.599,"body":"there's just a few very simple"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":230.599,"endTime":233.559,"body":"techniques that you can bring"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":230.599,"endTime":233.559,"body":"into this stuff that make"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":233.559,"endTime":236.359,"body":"a massive difference to how"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":233.559,"endTime":236.359,"body":"things play out on projects."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":236.699,"endTime":237.149,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":237.149,"endTime":239.579,"body":"I love the angle on like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":237.149,"endTime":239.579,"body":"the political aspect and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":239.579,"endTime":242.359,"body":"like this whole jockeying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":239.579,"endTime":242.359,"body":"for what is important."},{"speaker":"Galen 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the thing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":267.224,"endTime":269.634,"body":"I've learned about stakeholders,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":267.224,"endTime":269.634,"body":"having been a senior stakeholder"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":269.954,"endTime":271.664,"body":"in a lot of projects is"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":269.954,"endTime":271.664,"body":"they actually don't know."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":272.224,"endTime":274.56399999999996,"body":"They don't necessarily know"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":272.224,"endTime":274.56399999999996,"body":"how hard it is to do things"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":274.664,"endTime":277.084,"body":"or even what they want a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":274.664,"endTime":277.084,"body":"lot of the time, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":277.154,"endTime":279.514,"body":"They think they broadly know,"},{"speaker":"James 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Louttit","startTime":287.414,"endTime":289.744,"body":"of, okay, what's important,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":289.754,"endTime":292.754,"body":"what's not important and engage"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":289.754,"endTime":292.754,"body":"with people on this stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":293.014,"endTime":293.884,"body":"I want"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":293.014,"endTime":293.884,"body":"to dive into that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":293.894,"endTime":296.19399999999996,"body":"And I wonder if maybe we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":293.894,"endTime":296.19399999999996,"body":"take a step back here because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":296.47400000000005,"endTime":299.20399999999995,"body":"the way I see it, I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":296.47400000000005,"endTime":299.20399999999995,"body":"you have a quite particular"},{"speaker":"Galen 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most organizations do"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":335.504,"endTime":337.84400000000005,"body":"this thing that you described,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":337.894,"endTime":340.804,"body":"must-go prioritization;"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":337.894,"endTime":340.804,"body":"must, should, could, won't."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":341.11400000000003,"endTime":343.21400000000006,"body":"And what they do, what"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":341.11400000000003,"endTime":343.21400000000006,"body":"happens when stakeholders see"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":343.21400000000006,"endTime":344.024,"body":"that, it's hang on a second."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":344.244,"endTime":345.384,"body":"I know how to play this game."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":345.384,"endTime":347.06399999999996,"body":"I have been here before."},{"speaker":"James 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must."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":360.014,"endTime":364.32399999999996,"body":"And because there's no within"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":360.014,"endTime":364.32399999999996,"body":"category prioritization, you end"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":364.32399999999996,"endTime":368.034,"body":"up with a bucket of must, and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":364.32399999999996,"endTime":368.034,"body":"that is brutal for project teams"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":368.034,"endTime":371.294,"body":"because they can't distinguish"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":368.034,"endTime":371.294,"body":"between which are the important"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":371.304,"endTime":373.57399999999996,"body":"things that they really have to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":371.304,"endTime":373.57399999999996,"body":"do or should prioritize to do"},{"speaker":"James 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doing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":403.749,"endTime":406.259,"body":"with all our very senior"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":403.749,"endTime":406.259,"body":"stakeholders when I was at CPL."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":406.56899999999996,"endTime":408.929,"body":"So I watched this thing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":406.56899999999996,"endTime":408.929,"body":"like probably 50 times."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":409.19899999999996,"endTime":410.98900000000003,"body":"And then he talks about"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":409.19899999999996,"endTime":410.98900000000003,"body":"this guessing game of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":410.999,"endTime":413.549,"body":"value and effort, like you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":410.999,"endTime":413.549,"body":"looking for high value,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":413.83900000000006,"endTime":415.08900000000006,"body":"low effort things, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":415.259,"endTime":416.46900000000005,"body":"But how do you guess the value?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":416.46900000000005,"endTime":416.779,"body":"You don't."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":416.82899999999995,"endTime":418.629,"body":"It's a guessing game and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":416.82899999999995,"endTime":418.629,"body":"everyone uses it together."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":418.84900000000005,"endTime":419.84900000000005,"body":"I wasn't satisfied with that."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":420.09900000000005,"endTime":422.93899999999996,"body":"I actually think we can do much"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":420.09900000000005,"endTime":422.93899999999996,"body":"better than that because there's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":423.169,"endTime":426.519,"body":"lots of stuff in the literature"},{"speaker":"James 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the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":446.72400000000005,"endTime":448.35400000000004,"body":"value and using both of those."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":448.384,"endTime":450.514,"body":"And that's what I get into"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":448.384,"endTime":450.514,"body":"on my training course and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":450.514,"endTime":454.58399999999995,"body":"in the book is to show some"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":450.514,"endTime":454.58399999999995,"body":"examples of how to estimate"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":454.70399999999995,"endTime":457.68399999999997,"body":"effort, the effort of things,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":454.70399999999995,"endTime":457.68399999999997,"body":"and how to estimate the value."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":457.68399999999997,"endTime":460.124,"body":"And even for those more"},{"speaker":"James 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number,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":498.32899999999995,"endTime":499.789,"body":"not one person's number."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":500.09900000000005,"endTime":502.659,"body":"And then you can use that in"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":500.09900000000005,"endTime":502.659,"body":"that sort of prioritization"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":502.669,"endTime":506.46900000000005,"body":"discussion to find out hang on"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":502.669,"endTime":506.46900000000005,"body":"a second, is this higher value"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":506.519,"endTime":507.95899999999995,"body":"and lower effort than that?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":508.279,"endTime":510.649,"body":"In which case, if it is"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":508.279,"endTime":510.649,"body":"higher value and lower"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":510.659,"endTime":511.549,"body":"effort, it should be above it."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":511.73900000000003,"endTime":511.999,"body":"Great."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":512.019,"endTime":512.569,"body":"Let's do that."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":512.899,"endTime":516.329,"body":"And now, again, the main thing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":512.899,"endTime":516.329,"body":"on prioritization is no equals."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":516.619,"endTime":518.049,"body":"Never allow anything"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":516.619,"endTime":518.049,"body":"to be equal."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":518.069,"endTime":520.519,"body":"Something has to be above"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":518.069,"endTime":520.519,"body":"or below something else."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":520.994,"endTime":523.484,"body":"Which means when someone"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":520.994,"endTime":523.484,"body":"comes in with another 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for"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":610.779,"endTime":611.649,"body":"deciding this stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":611.959,"endTime":612.509,"body":"That's interesting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":612.509,"endTime":614.419,"body":"I had never thought about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":612.509,"endTime":614.419,"body":"it that way because this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":614.419,"endTime":617.189,"body":"whole notion that it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":614.419,"endTime":617.189,"body":"a number between you,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":617.189,"endTime":618.4689999999999,"body":"me and the project team."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":618.4689999999999,"endTime":619.509,"body":"It's not a projection."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":619.509,"endTime":622.189,"body":"It's not a forecast, like to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":619.509,"endTime":622.189,"body":"say that this scope item is"},{"speaker":"Galen 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numbers yet, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":826.669,"endTime":828.2289999999999,"body":"Just explain to me"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":826.669,"endTime":828.2289999999999,"body":"why we need this."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":828.639,"endTime":830.179,"body":"So let's say someone's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":828.639,"endTime":830.179,"body":"coming with a report that"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":830.189,"endTime":832.519,"body":"they need for their team"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":830.189,"endTime":832.519,"body":"or for themselves, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":832.519,"endTime":834.4889999999999,"body":"So they come to you and they"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":832.519,"endTime":834.4889999999999,"body":"say, Okay, James, I need this"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":834.4889999999999,"endTime":838.289,"body":"report because at the moment"},{"speaker":"James 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a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":846.139,"endTime":847.409,"body":"few questions, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":847.439,"endTime":850.2389999999999,"body":"Okay, so is it just you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":847.439,"endTime":850.2389999999999,"body":"or are there lots of other"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":850.2389999999999,"endTime":851.5989999999999,"body":"people doing this thing?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":851.749,"endTime":852.909,"body":"Okay it's just me, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":852.909,"endTime":853.389,"body":"Okay, great."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":853.559,"endTime":856.079,"body":"And if we gave you this"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":853.559,"endTime":856.079,"body":"report, would it get rid of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":856.079,"endTime":858.999,"body":"the full four hours every"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":856.079,"endTime":858.999,"body":"month or would it you still"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":858.999,"endTime":860.019,"body":"have to do some work, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":860.284,"endTime":860.564,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":860.564,"endTime":860.7239999999999,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":860.7239999999999,"endTime":861.784,"body":"So, so you're right, James."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":861.784,"endTime":863.514,"body":"It's probably going to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":861.784,"endTime":863.514,"body":"be two hours per month."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":863.514,"endTime":864.8539999999999,"body":"I'm going to save because"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":863.514,"endTime":864.8539999999999,"body":"I'm still going to have to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":864.8539999999999,"endTime":865.4639999999999,"body":"do the other things, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":865.904,"endTime":867.2139999999999,"body":"And is it every month?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":867.7139999999999,"endTime":868.894,"body":"No, it's every"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":867.7139999999999,"endTime":868.894,"body":"three months, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":868.894,"endTime":869.494,"body":"So, okay."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":869.564,"endTime":872.124,"body":"So now you find out this"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":869.564,"endTime":872.124,"body":"report that you're going to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":872.324,"endTime":875.584,"body":"create, it's going to save"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":872.324,"endTime":875.584,"body":"one person, whatever that adds"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":875.584,"endTime":876.954,"body":"up to be eight hours a year."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":877.174,"endTime":878.324,"body":"Okay, interesting."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":878.3439999999999,"endTime":879.504,"body":"Okay, so now you say"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":878.3439999999999,"endTime":879.504,"body":"to that person your"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":879.504,"endTime":880.3639999999999,"body":"time's really valuable."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":880.504,"endTime":883.084,"body":"Let's say it's worth"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":880.504,"endTime":883.084,"body":"$200 an hour, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":883.174,"endTime":883.924,"body":"Great, okay."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":884.1039999999999,"endTime":887.7339999999999,"body":"So now we multiply that 800"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":884.1039999999999,"endTime":887.7339999999999,"body":"by the 200, and we've got 1600"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":887.744,"endTime":889.134,"body":"Euros for a business case."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":889.244,"endTime":891.164,"body":"But this isn't gonna just"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":889.244,"endTime":891.164,"body":"be one year this is gonna"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":891.174,"endTime":892.294,"body":"be at least three years."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":892.674,"endTime":894.5939999999999,"body":"So now we've got whatever"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":892.674,"endTime":894.5939999999999,"body":"that is, four and a half"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":894.5939999999999,"endTime":896.264,"body":"grand worth of business case."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":896.564,"endTime":898.324,"body":"And you go to the team and say,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":896.564,"endTime":898.324,"body":"guys, how long is it going to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":898.324,"endTime":899.624,"body":"take you to build this report?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":899.9739999999999,"endTime":901.304,"body":"And they say, Oh, it's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":899.9739999999999,"endTime":901.304,"body":"quite complicated."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":901.624,"endTime":902.9739999999999,"body":"And we have to do this"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":901.624,"endTime":902.9739999999999,"body":"and we have to do that."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":903.004,"endTime":904.894,"body":"And and then there's a thing, we"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":903.004,"endTime":904.894,"body":"don't know how to do this thing."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":904.894,"endTime":907.174,"body":"If you gave us like 40 grand,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":904.894,"endTime":907.174,"body":"we could probably do it."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":907.534,"endTime":907.8439999999999,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":907.954,"endTime":908.404,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":908.4839999999999,"endTime":911.7239999999999,"body":"So now you've got the value of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":908.4839999999999,"endTime":911.7239999999999,"body":"four and a half grand and the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":911.804,"endTime":916.644,"body":"effort of 40 grand, and the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":911.804,"endTime":916.644,"body":"thing should not be done, ever."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":917.374,"endTime":917.554,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":917.554,"endTime":919.704,"body":"It's just not worth doing, ever."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":919.9639999999999,"endTime":922.1039999999999,"body":"And interestingly, when you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":919.9639999999999,"endTime":922.1039999999999,"body":"have this conversation with"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":922.124,"endTime":925.4639999999999,"body":"people, and we did this, about"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":922.124,"endTime":925.4639999999999,"body":"50% of the work that people"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":925.4639999999999,"endTime":928.424,"body":"were trying to jam into a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":925.4639999999999,"endTime":928.424,"body":"bucket of must disappeared."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":928.744,"endTime":930.5939999999999,"body":"It just didn't come into"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":928.744,"endTime":930.5939999999999,"body":"the thing because people"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":930.5939999999999,"endTime":931.574,"body":"couldn't justify it."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":931.804,"endTime":933.294,"body":"And certainly they"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":931.804,"endTime":933.294,"body":"couldn't justify the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":933.304,"endTime":934.374,"body":"cost of doing things."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":934.894,"endTime":937.134,"body":"And where they could, they"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":934.894,"endTime":937.134,"body":"say, okay hang on a second."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":937.134,"endTime":938.814,"body":"But if we make this report"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":937.134,"endTime":938.814,"body":"really simple, instead of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":938.814,"endTime":941.024,"body":"doing that, but we don't"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":938.814,"endTime":941.024,"body":"need all of these things."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":941.369,"endTime":942.4789999999999,"body":"It's still four"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":941.369,"endTime":942.4789999999999,"body":"and a half grand."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":942.639,"endTime":944.829,"body":"Maybe we saved like"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":942.639,"endTime":944.829,"body":"most of that time."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":945.039,"endTime":946.679,"body":"Let's call it four"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":945.039,"endTime":946.679,"body":"grand of business value."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":946.9789999999999,"endTime":949.6089999999999,"body":"But all I need is to be taught"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":946.9789999999999,"endTime":949.6089999999999,"body":"how to do a pivot table,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":949.809,"endTime":952.799,"body":"right, which one of the IT"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":949.809,"endTime":952.799,"body":"guys can do in 10 minutes."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":953.209,"endTime":955.809,"body":"And boom, and all of a sudden"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":953.209,"endTime":955.809,"body":"that's a high value, low effort"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":955.809,"endTime":958.049,"body":"thing that they can do and they"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":955.809,"endTime":958.049,"body":"are off and they're running."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":958.499,"endTime":961.179,"body":"And that then opens up the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":958.499,"endTime":961.179,"body":"conversation about creative"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":961.249,"endTime":964.0989999999999,"body":"problem solving and using"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":961.249,"endTime":964.0989999999999,"body":"other techniques and tools"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":964.0989999999999,"endTime":966.799,"body":"that were available to you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":964.0989999999999,"endTime":966.799,"body":"that aren't necessarily big,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":966.809,"endTime":969.3589999999999,"body":"complicated IT things or"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":966.809,"endTime":969.3589999999999,"body":"whatever you're building."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":969.5889999999999,"endTime":970.429,"body":"I like that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":969.5889999999999,"endTime":970.429,"body":"cause it's so many"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":970.439,"endTime":971.3389999999999,"body":"things in one, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":971.389,"endTime":973.769,"body":"By having a conversation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":971.389,"endTime":973.769,"body":"about this, you could"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":973.769,"endTime":974.7289999999999,"body":"also be innovating."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":974.7289999999999,"endTime":976.409,"body":"And that's what I really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":974.7289999999999,"endTime":976.409,"body":"like about planning poker"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":976.429,"endTime":977.769,"body":"for estimation overall."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":978.039,"endTime":981.279,"body":"We all enter with our"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":978.039,"endTime":981.279,"body":"assumptions and maybe most of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":981.279,"endTime":983.699,"body":"the people there are like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":981.279,"endTime":983.699,"body":"it's going to cost 40 grand."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":983.889,"endTime":986.679,"body":"And one person is no, it could"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":983.889,"endTime":986.679,"body":"probably cost, four grand."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":986.959,"endTime":987.9789999999999,"body":"And they're like, tell me why?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":987.999,"endTime":989.049,"body":"And they're like it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":987.999,"endTime":989.049,"body":"could be a pivot table."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":989.049,"endTime":990.009,"body":"We could just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":989.049,"endTime":990.009,"body":"train them on this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":990.019,"endTime":990.959,"body":"It doesn't have to be a report."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":990.9689999999999,"endTime":991.709,"body":"And they're like, Oh."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":992.0939999999999,"endTime":995.044,"body":"And then your line item,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":992.0939999999999,"endTime":995.044,"body":"yeah, maybe it disappears"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":995.044,"endTime":996.054,"body":"or maybe it transforms."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":996.274,"endTime":998.5939999999999,"body":"In other words, you could"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":996.274,"endTime":998.5939999999999,"body":"figure out a solution to the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":998.5939999999999,"endTime":1000.654,"body":"problem that has better ROI."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1000.934,"endTime":1002.7339999999999,"body":"And that's what strikes me"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1000.934,"endTime":1002.7339999999999,"body":"about the whole conversation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1002.7339999999999,"endTime":1004.7139999999999,"body":"is that by putting value"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1002.7339999999999,"endTime":1004.7139999999999,"body":"and effort together, you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1004.7139999999999,"endTime":1006.3639999999999,"body":"going line by line on ROI."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1006.374,"endTime":1008.8539999999999,"body":"It's if we invest this much"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1006.374,"endTime":1008.8539999999999,"body":"energy, time, money, effort,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1008.8539999999999,"endTime":1012.0939999999999,"body":"equipment, are we going to come"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1008.8539999999999,"endTime":1012.0939999999999,"body":"up better, come out on top?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1012.1139999999999,"endTime":1014.0939999999999,"body":"Or is it going to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1012.1139999999999,"endTime":1014.0939999999999,"body":"something where we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1014.0939999999999,"endTime":1015.074,"body":"actually still in the hole?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1015.204,"endTime":1015.524,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1015.744,"endTime":1017.2139999999999,"body":"So there's another thing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1015.744,"endTime":1017.2139999999999,"body":"that's really interesting"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1017.2139999999999,"endTime":1018.574,"body":"when you come to the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1017.2139999999999,"endTime":1018.574,"body":"effort calculation, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1018.574,"endTime":1019.914,"body":"And you talk about"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1018.574,"endTime":1019.914,"body":"planning poker there."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1020.279,"endTime":1022.019,"body":"And planning poker is"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1020.279,"endTime":1022.019,"body":"such a powerful technique."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1022.019,"endTime":1023.699,"body":"I actually have my, I've"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1022.019,"endTime":1023.699,"body":"created my own planning"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1023.699,"endTime":1024.8690000000001,"body":"poker cards, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1024.8790000000001,"endTime":1026.159,"body":"So that I give them out"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1024.8790000000001,"endTime":1026.159,"body":"in the training course."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1026.3690000000001,"endTime":1029.229,"body":"But when you ask people how"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1026.3690000000001,"endTime":1029.229,"body":"long things are going to take,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1029.499,"endTime":1030.6390000000001,"body":"there's a problem there, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1030.759,"endTime":1033.789,"body":"Because most organizations"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1030.759,"endTime":1033.789,"body":"don't account for risk."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1034.199,"endTime":1037.179,"body":"And so the individuals are"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1034.199,"endTime":1037.179,"body":"forced to account for risk."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1037.549,"endTime":1040.049,"body":"So what happens is you go"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1037.549,"endTime":1040.049,"body":"to a developer, say, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1040.289,"endTime":1041.909,"body":"And you say, okay, I want"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1040.289,"endTime":1041.909,"body":"you to build me a database."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1041.909,"endTime":1042.589,"body":"This is the thing."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1042.819,"endTime":1043.749,"body":"How long is it"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1042.819,"endTime":1043.749,"body":"going to take you?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1043.749,"endTime":1045.239,"body":"And the developer looks"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1043.749,"endTime":1045.239,"body":"at it and goes okay."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1045.579,"endTime":1048.1589999999999,"body":"So I reckon if I look at that,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1045.579,"endTime":1048.1589999999999,"body":"it's going to take me two days."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1048.489,"endTime":1049.999,"body":"But stuff might go wrong."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1050.379,"endTime":1052.289,"body":"So I'm not going to tell you two"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1050.379,"endTime":1052.289,"body":"days because I'm not an idiot."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1052.489,"endTime":1053.569,"body":"I'm going to say four days."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1053.869,"endTime":1055.299,"body":"And then the team lead"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1053.869,"endTime":1055.299,"body":"looks at that and he says,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1055.299,"endTime":1056.779,"body":"okay, this developer says"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1055.299,"endTime":1056.779,"body":"it's going to take four"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1056.779,"endTime":1057.899,"body":"days, but hang on a second."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1057.899,"endTime":1059.309,"body":"I've been around the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1057.899,"endTime":1059.309,"body":"block a couple of times."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1059.469,"endTime":1060.539,"body":"Stuff might go wrong."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1060.709,"endTime":1061.949,"body":"So I'm not going"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1060.709,"endTime":1061.949,"body":"to say four days."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1061.949,"endTime":1063.079,"body":"I'm going to say six days."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1063.4289999999999,"endTime":1064.999,"body":"And then the PM takes a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1063.4289999999999,"endTime":1064.999,"body":"look at that and goes,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1065.029,"endTime":1066.9189999999999,"body":"okay, so the development"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1065.029,"endTime":1066.9189999999999,"body":"team within six days."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1066.9289999999999,"endTime":1067.109,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1067.109,"endTime":1069.449,"body":"So it must be, this must be"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1067.109,"endTime":1069.449,"body":"one of those hard database"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1069.449,"endTime":1070.789,"body":"things that we, okay."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1070.789,"endTime":1073.039,"body":"So hang on a second and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1070.789,"endTime":1073.039,"body":"stuff might go wrong."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1073.109,"endTime":1075.639,"body":"So I'm going to tell the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1073.109,"endTime":1075.639,"body":"stakeholder it's going"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1075.639,"endTime":1076.549,"body":"to take us two weeks."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1076.954,"endTime":1080.154,"body":"All of a sudden what should be"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1076.954,"endTime":1080.154,"body":"a two day estimate, it should"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1080.154,"endTime":1082.834,"body":"take two days if everything"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1080.154,"endTime":1082.834,"body":"goes according to plan,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1083.0339999999999,"endTime":1084.0339999999999,"body":"becomes a two week thing."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1084.0439999999999,"endTime":1085.834,"body":"And all of a sudden your"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1084.0439999999999,"endTime":1085.834,"body":"team look really inefficient."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1086.014,"endTime":1086.954,"body":"They look bad."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1087.384,"endTime":1089.024,"body":"And the stakeholder looks at"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1087.384,"endTime":1089.024,"body":"it and goes, why on earth?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1089.0539999999999,"endTime":1089.814,"body":"Can't you flipping build it?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1089.844,"endTime":1090.744,"body":"It's just a database."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1091.024,"endTime":1091.454,"body":"Turn it on."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1091.5339999999999,"endTime":1092.084,"body":"It's fine."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1092.454,"endTime":1093.114,"body":"Let me show you."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1093.194,"endTime":1093.764,"body":"Yeah, I'll do it."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1094.069,"endTime":1098.069,"body":"So the skill here is to allow"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1094.069,"endTime":1098.069,"body":"for the things that might go"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1098.069,"endTime":1102.829,"body":"wrong, to pull out the risk from"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1098.069,"endTime":1102.829,"body":"the estimates and almost all the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1102.829,"endTime":1104.489,"body":"organizations get this wrong."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1104.589,"endTime":1105.609,"body":"And I don't know why."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1105.889,"endTime":1107.389,"body":"I just think it's like"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1105.889,"endTime":1107.389,"body":"the emperor's new clothes."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1107.389,"endTime":1111.539,"body":"They haven't explained it well"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1107.389,"endTime":1111.539,"body":"so people end up hiding their"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1111.539,"endTime":1113.039,"body":"contingency in their estimates."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1113.564,"endTime":1117.104,"body":"Whereas if you do proper risk"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1113.564,"endTime":1117.104,"body":"identification, and I teach"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1117.104,"endTime":1119.2939999999999,"body":"a technique called silent"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1117.104,"endTime":1119.2939999999999,"body":"writing, where you can also,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1119.314,"endTime":1121.274,"body":"interestingly enough, you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1119.314,"endTime":1121.274,"body":"can do it on like ChatGPT"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1121.274,"endTime":1123.674,"body":"and ask him, what might"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1121.274,"endTime":1123.674,"body":"go wrong on this project?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1123.684,"endTime":1125.094,"body":"And they give you a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1123.684,"endTime":1125.094,"body":"really good list, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1125.3039999999999,"endTime":1128.064,"body":"But then you identify those and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1125.3039999999999,"endTime":1128.064,"body":"say, okay, given if that goes"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1128.064,"endTime":1129.394,"body":"wrong, it might cost us this."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1130.1689999999999,"endTime":1132.189,"body":"And you pull it out"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1130.1689999999999,"endTime":1132.189,"body":"as a separate part of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1132.189,"endTime":1132.9189999999999,"body":"your estimate, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1132.9289999999999,"endTime":1134.699,"body":"So if things go the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1132.9289999999999,"endTime":1134.699,"body":"way we expect it to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1134.699,"endTime":1136.099,"body":"do, it'll be this much."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1136.439,"endTime":1138.619,"body":"If they don't, it could"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1136.439,"endTime":1138.619,"body":"be this much, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1138.619,"endTime":1139.349,"body":"A bigger number."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1139.519,"endTime":1141.199,"body":"And the difference between"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1139.519,"endTime":1141.199,"body":"those two things is your"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1141.199,"endTime":1143.999,"body":"contingency, which you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1141.199,"endTime":1143.999,"body":"can now justify, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1144.019,"endTime":1146.4289999999999,"body":"Cause you can point to that"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1144.019,"endTime":1146.4289999999999,"body":"stakeholder and say, if you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1146.4289999999999,"endTime":1149.339,"body":"don't sign off on this thing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1146.4289999999999,"endTime":1149.339,"body":"by this date, it's going to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1149.369,"endTime":1150.689,"body":"cost us an extra 10 grand."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1151.099,"endTime":1152.059,"body":"Great, okay."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1152.239,"endTime":1154.839,"body":"And instead of waiting for"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1152.239,"endTime":1154.839,"body":"them to not sign off on it"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1154.839,"endTime":1156.719,"body":"and get annoyed, but not"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1154.839,"endTime":1156.719,"body":"get in trouble because you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1156.729,"endTime":1159.289,"body":"stuffed your estimates full"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1156.729,"endTime":1159.289,"body":"of hidden contingency, you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1159.289,"endTime":1162.139,"body":"allow them to actually decide"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1159.289,"endTime":1162.139,"body":"not to spend the 10 grand"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1162.1689999999999,"endTime":1165.329,"body":"and to sign off on the thing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1162.1689999999999,"endTime":1165.329,"body":"in the right time frame, and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1165.4089999999999,"endTime":1166.9089999999999,"body":"better behavior has happened."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1167.2839999999999,"endTime":1169.434,"body":"The project is more likely"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1167.2839999999999,"endTime":1169.434,"body":"to be successful, and you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1169.434,"endTime":1170.394,"body":"didn't spend the 10 grand!"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1170.444,"endTime":1170.984,"body":"Hooray!"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1171.224,"endTime":1172.0439999999999,"body":"Wonderful news!"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1173.684,"endTime":1174.934,"body":"Your team"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1173.684,"endTime":1174.934,"body":"didn't look bad either."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1175.104,"endTime":1176.684,"body":"Your team"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1175.104,"endTime":1176.684,"body":"didn't look bad, exactly."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1176.874,"endTime":1178.944,"body":"It's that notion"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1176.874,"endTime":1178.944,"body":"of padding versus contingency,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1178.944,"endTime":1180.824,"body":"like proper contingency,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1178.944,"endTime":1180.824,"body":"where you've actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1180.824,"endTime":1183.164,"body":"calculated a contingency"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1180.824,"endTime":1183.164,"body":"budget based on risk."},{"speaker":"Galen 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can"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1196.824,"endTime":1198.394,"body":"tell that story about risk,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1198.704,"endTime":1200.444,"body":"when you're making decisions"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1198.704,"endTime":1200.444,"body":"about which projects to go"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1200.444,"endTime":1202.984,"body":"ahead with you're estimating"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1200.444,"endTime":1202.984,"body":"the size of the project."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1203.184,"endTime":1205.354,"body":"But if you've got a project"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1203.184,"endTime":1205.354,"body":"with loads and loads of risk"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1205.374,"endTime":1207.914,"body":"and therefore potentially a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1205.374,"endTime":1207.914,"body":"massive amount of contingency"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1207.914,"endTime":1211.239,"body":"required associated with it,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1207.914,"endTime":1211.239,"body":"then that decision can be"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1211.239,"endTime":1212.119,"body":"made by the stakeholders."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1212.119,"endTime":1212.779,"body":"They go, hang on a second."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1212.779,"endTime":1213.989,"body":"There's loads of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1212.779,"endTime":1213.989,"body":"risk on this project."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1214.349,"endTime":1215.459,"body":"Maybe we just don't do it."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1215.699,"endTime":1218.019,"body":"And by doing that, all of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1215.699,"endTime":1218.019,"body":"a sudden you might identify"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1218.1689999999999,"endTime":1222.209,"body":"the five lowest value,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1218.1689999999999,"endTime":1222.209,"body":"highest effort project"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1222.219,"endTime":1225.049,"body":"in your organization and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1222.219,"endTime":1225.049,"body":"kill them, stone dead,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1225.209,"endTime":1226.579,"body":"before they get started."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1226.899,"endTime":1228.549,"body":"And all of a sudden your"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1226.899,"endTime":1228.549,"body":"organization has got"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1228.6789999999999,"endTime":1229.549,"body":"these extra resources."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1229.549,"endTime":1230.949,"body":"It's got, what's going to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1229.549,"endTime":1230.949,"body":"be running around doing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1230.949,"endTime":1233.979,"body":"this really hard, low value"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1230.949,"endTime":1233.979,"body":"things that have got massive"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1233.979,"endTime":1234.939,"body":"amounts of risk in them."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1235.129,"endTime":1237.889,"body":"And they can get on with"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1235.129,"endTime":1237.889,"body":"those high value, low"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1237.889,"endTime":1240.139,"body":"effort tasks that we"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1237.889,"endTime":1240.139,"body":"should all be looking at."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1240.519,"endTime":1242.249,"body":"I like that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1240.519,"endTime":1242.249,"body":"zooming out onto like the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1242.259,"endTime":1245.274,"body":"whole portfolio of projects,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1242.259,"endTime":1245.274,"body":"like all of the supplies."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1245.574,"endTime":1247.874,"body":"I feel like some of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1245.574,"endTime":1247.874,"body":"my listeners, maybe me"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1247.874,"endTime":1249.964,"body":"too, are thinking James,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1247.874,"endTime":1249.964,"body":"that sounds great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1249.984,"endTime":1250.954,"body":"But who's got the time?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1250.954,"endTime":1253.734,"body":"That sounds like doing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1250.954,"endTime":1253.734,"body":"quantitative and qualitative"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1253.744,"endTime":1256.2939999999999,"body":"risk analysis per"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1253.744,"endTime":1256.2939999999999,"body":"scope item per project."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1256.3039999999999,"endTime":1257.704,"body":"And then doing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1256.3039999999999,"endTime":1257.704,"body":"that for projects."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1257.894,"endTime":1260.0439999999999,"body":"Won't we just spend all of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1257.894,"endTime":1260.0439999999999,"body":"our time in a meeting room"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1260.0439999999999,"endTime":1263.014,"body":"doing prioritization and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1260.0439999999999,"endTime":1263.014,"body":"not getting the work done?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1263.314,"endTime":1264.484,"body":"How does this kind of scale?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1264.714,"endTime":1266.144,"body":"This is"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1264.714,"endTime":1266.144,"body":"why for me, quick and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1266.144,"endTime":1267.734,"body":"dirty is important, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1267.974,"endTime":1269.934,"body":"Getting a number out there"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1267.974,"endTime":1269.934,"body":"that can be challenged."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1270.264,"endTime":1272.5339999999999,"body":"But think about what"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1270.264,"endTime":1272.5339999999999,"body":"happens if you don't do it."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1272.7939999999999,"endTime":1276.264,"body":"If you don't estimate things"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1272.7939999999999,"endTime":1276.264,"body":"well, then you set expectations"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1276.2839999999999,"endTime":1277.504,"body":"of terrible estimates, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1277.624,"endTime":1280.144,"body":"If you've ever tried to estimate"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1277.624,"endTime":1280.144,"body":"things without planning poker,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1280.6589999999999,"endTime":1283.1789999999999,"body":"and then you ask people to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1280.6589999999999,"endTime":1283.1789999999999,"body":"do planning poker on it."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1283.209,"endTime":1284.839,"body":"What you'll find is that"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1283.209,"endTime":1284.839,"body":"they've got completely"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1285.039,"endTime":1286.829,"body":"random numbers coming out"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1285.039,"endTime":1286.829,"body":"of their mouths, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1287.099,"endTime":1289.839,"body":"It's basically a random"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1287.099,"endTime":1289.839,"body":"number generator when you ask"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1289.859,"endTime":1292.739,"body":"people to estimate things,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1289.859,"endTime":1292.739,"body":"unless you use planning poker."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1293.569,"endTime":1296.459,"body":"Because the people who are"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1293.569,"endTime":1296.459,"body":"actually doing the task and then"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1296.719,"endTime":1299.309,"body":"talk about it and understand"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1296.719,"endTime":1299.309,"body":"it and figure it out and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1299.309,"endTime":1300.109,"body":"say, Oh, hang on a second."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1300.109,"endTime":1301.199,"body":"We've got a tool"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1300.109,"endTime":1301.199,"body":"that we can use."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1301.199,"endTime":1302.599,"body":"Oh no, we can't use that"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1301.199,"endTime":1302.599,"body":"tool because we don't"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1302.599,"endTime":1303.589,"body":"have access or whatever."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1303.789,"endTime":1305.209,"body":"Have all those conversations."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1305.559,"endTime":1307.809,"body":"And then you find that you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1305.559,"endTime":1307.809,"body":"improve your estimates."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1308.1589999999999,"endTime":1311.519,"body":"If you don't do this is why, I"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1308.1589999999999,"endTime":1311.519,"body":"think it's a PMI stat, somewhere"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1311.519,"endTime":1314.889,"body":"between 20 percent and 70"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1311.519,"endTime":1314.889,"body":"percent of all projects fail."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1315.119,"endTime":1317.9189999999999,"body":"20 percent catastrophically,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1315.119,"endTime":1317.9189999999999,"body":"and 70, and I'd say it's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1317.9289999999999,"endTime":1320.889,"body":"more than that, percent of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1317.9289999999999,"endTime":1320.889,"body":"projects don't deliver the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1320.889,"endTime":1322.189,"body":"things that are expected."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1322.489,"endTime":1325.009,"body":"And that's because we don't"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1322.489,"endTime":1325.009,"body":"spend just a little bit"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1325.009,"endTime":1328.499,"body":"of time upfront thinking"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1325.009,"endTime":1328.499,"body":"about identifying the high"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1328.559,"endTime":1330.9189999999999,"body":"value, low effort things,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1328.559,"endTime":1330.9189999999999,"body":"get rid of the stuff."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1331.089,"endTime":1331.9189999999999,"body":"It shouldn't be there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1331.9189999999999,"endTime":1332.739,"body":"I like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1332.759,"endTime":1335.9289999999999,"body":"Even the conversation is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1332.759,"endTime":1335.9289999999999,"body":"high value, low effort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1335.959,"endTime":1338.399,"body":"relative to the risk of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1335.959,"endTime":1338.399,"body":"everything going wrong."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1338.834,"endTime":1341.254,"body":"I'm picturing like egos at play"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1338.834,"endTime":1341.254,"body":"here and I, keep coming back"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1341.254,"endTime":1343.504,"body":"to it, but as project managers,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1341.254,"endTime":1343.504,"body":"we're like, great, that scope"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1343.504,"endTime":1345.594,"body":"item is no longer in scope."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1345.824,"endTime":1346.8039999999999,"body":"It's off the list."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1347.0339999999999,"endTime":1347.634,"body":"Hooray."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1347.884,"endTime":1351.114,"body":"And meanwhile, somebody"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1347.884,"endTime":1351.114,"body":"has left feeling quite"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1351.124,"endTime":1353.964,"body":"disappointed, frustrated,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1351.124,"endTime":1353.964,"body":"and maybe a little bit angry."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1354.144,"endTime":1355.7839999999999,"body":"So I haven't"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1354.144,"endTime":1355.7839999999999,"body":"explained it quite right."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1355.854,"endTime":1356.204,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1356.579,"endTime":1358.369,"body":"So it's not off the list."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1358.579,"endTime":1360.529,"body":"It's just not near"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1358.579,"endTime":1360.529,"body":"the top of the list."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1360.539,"endTime":1363.079,"body":"It's lower than all these other"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1360.539,"endTime":1363.079,"body":"things on the list, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1363.079,"endTime":1365.019,"body":"So the list can be as"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1363.079,"endTime":1365.019,"body":"long as you want, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1365.029,"endTime":1366.259,"body":"It's just a prioritized backlog."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1366.539,"endTime":1369.699,"body":"Doesn't matter if stuff's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1366.539,"endTime":1369.699,"body":"low on the list, what you're"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1369.709,"endTime":1372.069,"body":"using this to do is focus"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1369.709,"endTime":1372.069,"body":"on the biggest things."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1372.079,"endTime":1374.129,"body":"And then you can decide,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1372.079,"endTime":1374.129,"body":"okay, we're going to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1374.129,"endTime":1375.1789999999999,"body":"do this for six months."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1375.199,"endTime":1378.509,"body":"So you draw a red line after six"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1375.199,"endTime":1378.509,"body":"months and all the things below"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1378.529,"endTime":1381.019,"body":"the line are things that we're"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1378.529,"endTime":1381.019,"body":"not doing in this six month"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1381.019,"endTime":1382.509,"body":"period, and it's not never."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1382.819,"endTime":1383.799,"body":"It's just not now."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1384.099,"endTime":1387.014,"body":"And that takes a lot of the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1384.099,"endTime":1387.014,"body":"sting out of the conversation."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1387.484,"endTime":1389.8039999999999,"body":"And particularly if you get"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1387.484,"endTime":1389.8039999999999,"body":"to shorter sprints, we were"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1389.8039999999999,"endTime":1390.854,"body":"doing two week sprints."},{"speaker":"James 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Louttit","startTime":1401.064,"endTime":1403.684,"body":"as a team to deliver, and we"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1403.684,"endTime":1404.694,"body":"should be able to get you in."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1405.049,"endTime":1407.4289999999999,"body":"And that's how you have"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1405.049,"endTime":1407.4289999999999,"body":"a better conversation."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1407.689,"endTime":1408.4189999999999,"body":"That's interesting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1408.4189999999999,"endTime":1412.379,"body":"And yeah, it's not like a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1408.4189999999999,"endTime":1412.379,"body":"hard no, it's a maybe later."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1412.609,"endTime":1414.539,"body":"But then equally to your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1412.609,"endTime":1414.539,"body":"point, like your example"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1414.559,"endTime":1417.1689999999999,"body":"earlier, then there's the item"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1414.559,"endTime":1417.1689999999999,"body":"sits there going we want to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1417.1789999999999,"endTime":1420.759,"body":"spend $40,000 to save $4,500."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1421.099,"endTime":1422.819,"body":"We'll always sit there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1421.099,"endTime":1422.819,"body":"looking ridiculous."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1423.219,"endTime":1425.039,"body":"Yeah, okay,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1423.219,"endTime":1425.039,"body":"so that really low stuff,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1425.039,"endTime":1426.139,"body":"that just disappears, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1426.189,"endTime":1428.459,"body":"Yeah, you're right, that never"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1426.189,"endTime":1428.459,"body":"goes anywhere, and that's right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1428.459,"endTime":1429.979,"body":"But you've made it really"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1428.459,"endTime":1429.979,"body":"clear, and then they might come"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1429.979,"endTime":1433.1789999999999,"body":"back and say, oh no, it's not"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1429.979,"endTime":1433.1789999999999,"body":"just me, there's actually 57"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1433.189,"endTime":1434.629,"body":"of us with the same problem."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1434.6789999999999,"endTime":1435.599,"body":"Ah, okay, interesting."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1436.029,"endTime":1437.529,"body":"And now you might have"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1436.029,"endTime":1437.529,"body":"a decent business case."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1437.769,"endTime":1439.019,"body":"That's fine, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1439.049,"endTime":1440.299,"body":"Okay, now we can"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1439.049,"endTime":1440.299,"body":"look at that again."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1440.639,"endTime":1442.439,"body":"Or that other thing, which"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1440.639,"endTime":1442.439,"body":"is we can make it simpler"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1442.439,"endTime":1443.129,"body":"using a pivot table."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1443.4089999999999,"endTime":1443.749,"body":"Fair."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1444.819,"endTime":1447.1589999999999,"body":"I like the fact that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1444.819,"endTime":1447.1589999999999,"body":"circumstances can change over"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1447.1589999999999,"endTime":1448.1789999999999,"body":"the duration of a project."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1448.229,"endTime":1449.999,"body":"Maybe you did hire 56 people."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1450.259,"endTime":1451.529,"body":"Oh yeah,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1450.259,"endTime":1451.529,"body":"we've all got AI now, so"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1451.529,"endTime":1452.459,"body":"all of the things are easy."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1452.459,"endTime":1458.1789999999999,"body":"Are you using AI"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1452.459,"endTime":1458.1789999999999,"body":"in prioritization other than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1458.1789999999999,"endTime":1460.059,"body":"what you mentioned about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1458.1789999999999,"endTime":1460.059,"body":"sort of identifying risk?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1460.539,"endTime":1462.129,"body":"Not particularly"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1460.539,"endTime":1462.129,"body":"in prioritization because"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1462.129,"endTime":1464.639,"body":"I think the prioritization"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1462.129,"endTime":1464.639,"body":"discussion is really important"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1464.649,"endTime":1465.729,"body":"to have as humans, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1466.069,"endTime":1467.899,"body":"What I am using it for"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1466.069,"endTime":1467.899,"body":"is risk identification."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1468.399,"endTime":1472.459,"body":"While I do like to give my"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1468.399,"endTime":1472.459,"body":"team first, very importantly,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1472.769,"endTime":1476.1689999999999,"body":"an opportunity to identify"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1472.769,"endTime":1476.1689999999999,"body":"risk, I use that silent writing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1476.1689999999999,"endTime":1479.049,"body":"technique I alluded to earlier"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1476.1689999999999,"endTime":1479.049,"body":"on because otherwise, you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1479.049,"endTime":1480.269,"body":"don't get everybody's opinions."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1480.649,"endTime":1483.869,"body":"So I do that first, but"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1480.649,"endTime":1483.869,"body":"I'll also quite happily type"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1483.869,"endTime":1487.569,"body":"in some details about the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1483.869,"endTime":1487.569,"body":"project onto ChatGPT and say,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1487.619,"endTime":1488.6589999999999,"body":"okay, what might go wrong?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1489.009,"endTime":1491.094,"body":"It doesn't really understand,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1489.009,"endTime":1491.094,"body":"instead, what are the risks?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1491.094,"endTime":1493.334,"body":"It sort of says you might not be"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1491.094,"endTime":1493.334,"body":"good at delivering your project."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1493.334,"endTime":1494.654,"body":"I'm like I'm not going to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1493.334,"endTime":1494.654,"body":"put that in the risk log."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1494.654,"endTime":1495.454,"body":"That's not very impressive."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1495.974,"endTime":1497.074,"body":"So I said, what might go wrong?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1497.084,"endTime":1499.024,"body":"And he says data migration"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1497.084,"endTime":1499.024,"body":"might be a problem on this."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1499.0539999999999,"endTime":1500.494,"body":"This, and you're like,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1499.0539999999999,"endTime":1500.494,"body":"okay, actually you're right."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1500.914,"endTime":1501.974,"body":"Data migration, I"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1500.914,"endTime":1501.974,"body":"hadn't thought of that."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1502.164,"endTime":1503.664,"body":"And then you put that on the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1502.164,"endTime":1503.664,"body":"risk log and you have a good"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1503.664,"endTime":1504.644,"body":"conversation about it, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1504.924,"endTime":1507.904,"body":"So I use both of those things,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1504.924,"endTime":1507.904,"body":"the human element to identify"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1507.934,"endTime":1511.344,"body":"risks and also belt and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1507.934,"endTime":1511.344,"body":"braces with some AI kind of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1511.374,"endTime":1512.654,"body":"to throw a few rocks at it."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1513.149,"endTime":1515.529,"body":"And all of a sudden you should"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1513.149,"endTime":1515.529,"body":"be able to identify most of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1515.529,"endTime":1517.519,"body":"the things that are likely"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1515.529,"endTime":1517.519,"body":"to go wrong on a project"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1517.549,"endTime":1518.529,"body":"that's a bit like yours."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1519.829,"endTime":1520.249,"body":"I like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1520.249,"endTime":1521.719,"body":"It's actually such"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1520.249,"endTime":1521.719,"body":"a fantastic use."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1522.279,"endTime":1524.209,"body":"I know I'm diving into risk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1522.279,"endTime":1524.209,"body":"management a little bit here,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1524.209,"endTime":1527.189,"body":"but it's the perfect use for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1524.209,"endTime":1527.189,"body":"generative AI and things like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1527.189,"endTime":1531.059,"body":"ChatGPT because it's been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1527.189,"endTime":1531.059,"body":"trained on whatever information"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1531.059,"endTime":1533.469,"body":"we've provided about projects"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1531.059,"endTime":1533.469,"body":"going wrong that you would"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1533.469,"endTime":1536.7839999999999,"body":"never be able to either know"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1533.469,"endTime":1536.7839999999999,"body":"or process in real time, in a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1536.7839999999999,"endTime":1540.434,"body":"meeting, but you can be like, Oh"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1536.7839999999999,"endTime":1540.434,"body":"yeah okay, this could go wrong."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1540.434,"endTime":1541.564,"body":"You're like, yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1540.434,"endTime":1541.564,"body":"doesn't apply to us."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1541.624,"endTime":1541.984,"body":"Easy."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1542.084,"endTime":1544.594,"body":"Versus training people on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1542.084,"endTime":1544.594,"body":"risk management and trying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1544.594,"endTime":1547.494,"body":"to get everyone savvy to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1544.594,"endTime":1547.494,"body":"become expert risk managers"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1547.504,"endTime":1548.574,"body":"or expert estimators."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1548.854,"endTime":1549.484,"body":"Simplifies it."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1549.5339999999999,"endTime":1550.904,"body":"I don't think"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1549.5339999999999,"endTime":1550.904,"body":"they need to be experts,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1550.914,"endTime":1552.944,"body":"but I think you just ask"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1550.914,"endTime":1552.944,"body":"them what might go wrong."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1553.334,"endTime":1555.814,"body":"Don't start going down a big"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1553.334,"endTime":1555.814,"body":"risk management training thing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1555.814,"endTime":1557.404,"body":"and start getting people scared"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1555.814,"endTime":1557.404,"body":"that they're going to have"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1557.404,"endTime":1558.884,"body":"to learn to be like that guy."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1559.134,"endTime":1561.064,"body":"But just ask them, what do"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1559.134,"endTime":1561.064,"body":"you think might go wrong?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1561.404,"endTime":1562.394,"body":"And then give them time."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1562.394,"endTime":1564.864,"body":"So this silent writing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1562.394,"endTime":1564.864,"body":"technique is really powerful."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1564.874,"endTime":1566.394,"body":"So you say, here's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1564.874,"endTime":1566.394,"body":"some post it notes."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1566.8039999999999,"endTime":1568.884,"body":"This question is what might"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1566.8039999999999,"endTime":1568.884,"body":"go wrong on this project?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1569.104,"endTime":1571.204,"body":"You've got five"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1569.104,"endTime":1571.204,"body":"minutes, start writing."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1571.484,"endTime":1573.814,"body":"And then when I'm doing this, I"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1571.484,"endTime":1573.814,"body":"actually invigilate the thing."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1574.154,"endTime":1576.5339999999999,"body":"I'm like the exam,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1574.154,"endTime":1576.5339999999999,"body":"moderator walking around."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1578.2839999999999,"endTime":1579.754,"body":"No talking like"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1578.2839999999999,"endTime":1579.754,"body":"that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1579.834,"endTime":1582.094,"body":"And I'll tell people off and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1579.834,"endTime":1582.094,"body":"I do lots of talks and things."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1582.344,"endTime":1584.424,"body":"I did this with a big"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1582.344,"endTime":1584.424,"body":"group of very senior people"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1584.634,"endTime":1585.474,"body":"day before yesterday."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1585.864,"endTime":1588.004,"body":"And I was walking around, I"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1585.864,"endTime":1588.004,"body":"think I told the CEO to shut up."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1588.144,"endTime":1588.694,"body":"It was quite fun."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1588.944,"endTime":1590.2939999999999,"body":"He was very good about"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1588.944,"endTime":1590.2939999999999,"body":"it because I'd set the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1590.3039999999999,"endTime":1591.444,"body":"scene quite nicely before."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1591.694,"endTime":1592.234,"body":"And it was good."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1592.234,"endTime":1593.104,"body":"He came over to me afterwards."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1593.104,"endTime":1594.444,"body":"He said, James,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1593.104,"endTime":1594.444,"body":"that's really good."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1594.5439999999999,"endTime":1595.714,"body":"That actually works."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1595.934,"endTime":1597.0539999999999,"body":"I should shut up more."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1597.274,"endTime":1599.514,"body":"And they got loads of good ideas"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1597.274,"endTime":1599.514,"body":"just from that little technique."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1599.734,"endTime":1600.224,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1600.434,"endTime":1603.524,"body":"You raise a really good"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1600.434,"endTime":1603.524,"body":"point in terms of, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1603.524,"endTime":1606.244,"body":"it can be refreshing for a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1603.524,"endTime":1606.244,"body":"person of authority to be in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1606.244,"endTime":1607.7839999999999,"body":"the mix and in conversation."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1607.7839999999999,"endTime":1611.584,"body":"And, in some ways there are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1607.7839999999999,"endTime":1611.584,"body":"some leaders who just feel"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1611.584,"endTime":1614.874,"body":"like it's an expectation on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1611.584,"endTime":1614.874,"body":"them that they know stuff"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1614.874,"endTime":1617.624,"body":"and make decisions and are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1614.874,"endTime":1617.624,"body":"loud and, and this and that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1617.964,"endTime":1620.744,"body":"Versus sort of introducing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1617.964,"endTime":1620.744,"body":"this sort of collaborative,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1621.0539999999999,"endTime":1623.374,"body":"getting them sort of back in the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1621.0539999999999,"endTime":1623.374,"body":"trenches, back in the action."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1623.654,"endTime":1625.0339999999999,"body":"I wondered about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1623.654,"endTime":1625.0339999999999,"body":"the opposite though."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1625.094,"endTime":1625.314,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1625.314,"endTime":1625.934,"body":"It's the HIPPO."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1625.984,"endTime":1627.824,"body":"It's the highest paid"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1625.984,"endTime":1627.824,"body":"person's opinion, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1627.824,"endTime":1628.394,"body":"That's the problem."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1628.674,"endTime":1629.914,"body":"And that's what we're"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1628.674,"endTime":1629.914,"body":"trying to solve here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1630.184,"endTime":1630.854,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1630.864,"endTime":1632.704,"body":"I love the HIPPO"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1630.864,"endTime":1632.704,"body":"sort of acronym."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1632.984,"endTime":1635.244,"body":"And I wonder if we can get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1632.984,"endTime":1635.244,"body":"into the darker side of that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1635.254,"endTime":1638.144,"body":"the opposite side of that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1635.254,"endTime":1638.144,"body":"where it's listen, you shut up."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1638.404,"endTime":1639.944,"body":"I'm the highest paid"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1638.404,"endTime":1639.944,"body":"person in the room."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1639.964,"endTime":1641.834,"body":"It's my job to say"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1639.964,"endTime":1641.834,"body":"we do this or that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1642.0539999999999,"endTime":1643.0439999999999,"body":"It is bucket of musts."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1643.5539999999999,"endTime":1644.224,"body":"Doesn't matter."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1644.224,"endTime":1645.684,"body":"We're not having a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1644.224,"endTime":1645.684,"body":"conversation about this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1646.024,"endTime":1647.324,"body":"Get the developers out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1646.024,"endTime":1647.324,"body":"of the room, get the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1647.324,"endTime":1648.174,"body":"designers out of the room."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1648.224,"endTime":1649.254,"body":"This is you and me."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1649.254,"endTime":1649.954,"body":"I tell you what to do."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1649.964,"endTime":1650.584,"body":"You do it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1650.914,"endTime":1652.614,"body":"How do you push"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1650.914,"endTime":1652.614,"body":"back against that?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1652.814,"endTime":1654.504,"body":"I don't really"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1652.814,"endTime":1654.504,"body":"think that conversation"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1654.504,"endTime":1656.654,"body":"happens as often as"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1654.504,"endTime":1656.654,"body":"people think it does, but"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1656.654,"endTime":1657.524,"body":"let's address it anyway."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1657.574,"endTime":1662.134,"body":"Because in my experience, senior"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1657.574,"endTime":1662.134,"body":"people are very empathetic."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1662.344,"endTime":1664.684,"body":"For the most part, they"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1662.344,"endTime":1664.684,"body":"do have a high level of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1664.684,"endTime":1667.254,"body":"emotional intelligence because"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1664.684,"endTime":1667.254,"body":"you don't really get to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1667.254,"endTime":1668.394,"body":"those levels without that."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1668.894,"endTime":1671.514,"body":"Some people are absolutely"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1668.894,"endTime":1671.514,"body":"that kind of driver personality"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1671.514,"endTime":1672.5339999999999,"body":"and just drive it forward."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1672.914,"endTime":1676.789,"body":"But for me, those people are"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1672.914,"endTime":1676.789,"body":"very open to the question of,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1676.789,"endTime":1677.779,"body":"okay, but hang on a second."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1677.969,"endTime":1680.289,"body":"If you do that, these are the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1677.969,"endTime":1680.289,"body":"things that could go wrong."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1680.729,"endTime":1681.769,"body":"Now I'm okay."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1681.839,"endTime":1684.279,"body":"If you want to sign off on"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1681.839,"endTime":1684.279,"body":"that and these things go"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1684.299,"endTime":1686.6689999999999,"body":"wrong, I've made it very clear"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1684.299,"endTime":1686.6689999999999,"body":"to you what might go wrong."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1687.089,"endTime":1688.6789999999999,"body":"What's likely to go"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1687.089,"endTime":1688.6789999999999,"body":"wrong is that this thing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1688.6789999999999,"endTime":1689.549,"body":"isn't going to get done."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1689.579,"endTime":1691.199,"body":"And I think it's more"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1689.579,"endTime":1691.199,"body":"important than the things"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1691.199,"endTime":1691.979,"body":"you're making me do."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1691.979,"endTime":1693.469,"body":"So this thing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1691.979,"endTime":1693.469,"body":"might not get done."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1693.519,"endTime":1694.699,"body":"If you're happy to take"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1693.519,"endTime":1694.699,"body":"that risk, that's fine."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1694.699,"endTime":1695.279,"body":"That's your decision."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1695.709,"endTime":1699.529,"body":"So when my wife and I got"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1695.709,"endTime":1699.529,"body":"married, we agreed that I'm"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1699.529,"endTime":1700.469,"body":"in charge of everything."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1700.829,"endTime":1703.199,"body":"All of the things,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1700.829,"endTime":1703.199,"body":"everything I'm in charge"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1703.199,"endTime":1704.089,"body":"of, apart from decisions."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1704.099,"endTime":1706.099,"body":"She's in charge of the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1704.099,"endTime":1706.099,"body":"decisions, but everything"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1706.099,"endTime":1706.969,"body":"else I'm in charge of."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1707.259,"endTime":1710.009,"body":"And for me, that's actually"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1707.259,"endTime":1710.009,"body":"quite a nice angle to put up"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1710.009,"endTime":1711.599,"body":"to your senior stakeholder and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1710.009,"endTime":1711.599,"body":"say, yeah, do you know what"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1711.599,"endTime":1715.009,"body":"I want you to decide, but you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1711.599,"endTime":1715.009,"body":"have to decide, and you bring"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1715.009,"endTime":1716.029,"body":"it back to the iron triangle."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1716.379,"endTime":1717.779,"body":"I'm sure your listeners"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1716.379,"endTime":1717.779,"body":"will be familiar with that."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1717.799,"endTime":1718.559,"body":"You can have it good."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1718.729,"endTime":1719.539,"body":"You can have it quick."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1719.689,"endTime":1720.479,"body":"You can have it cheap."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1720.779,"endTime":1721.779,"body":"Pick two, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1721.799,"endTime":1722.879,"body":"You can't have all three, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1722.9289999999999,"endTime":1724.789,"body":"Which thing are you going"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1722.9289999999999,"endTime":1724.789,"body":"to give me to flex, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1724.959,"endTime":1726.639,"body":"I can flex on scope or quality."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1726.879,"endTime":1729.249,"body":"I can flex on time or give"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1726.879,"endTime":1729.249,"body":"me loads of money and I'll"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1729.249,"endTime":1731.689,"body":"just hire some consultants in"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1729.249,"endTime":1731.689,"body":"and we'll all do it together."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1732.059,"endTime":1734.449,"body":"So present decisions,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1732.059,"endTime":1734.449,"body":"present options back to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1734.449,"endTime":1736.829,"body":"them and show them what"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1734.449,"endTime":1736.829,"body":"they're deciding between,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1736.849,"endTime":1738.834,"body":"including what might go wrong."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1739.124,"endTime":1743.364,"body":"And actually those people, in"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1739.124,"endTime":1743.364,"body":"my experience, a hundred percent"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1743.404,"endTime":1744.834,"body":"of the time, appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1745.094,"endTime":1747.084,"body":"I find that really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1745.094,"endTime":1747.084,"body":"interesting too, because I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1747.084,"endTime":1748.944,"body":"thinking of some examples"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1747.084,"endTime":1748.944,"body":"of people that, in my life"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1748.954,"endTime":1753.019,"body":"who are seen by others as,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1748.954,"endTime":1753.019,"body":"they're hard asses that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1753.019,"endTime":1754.589,"body":"they want to call the shots."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1754.769,"endTime":1755.529,"body":"They're stubborn."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1755.769,"endTime":1757.119,"body":"It's like their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1755.769,"endTime":1757.119,"body":"way or the highway."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1757.469,"endTime":1759.579,"body":"And, as you're saying that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1757.469,"endTime":1759.579,"body":"I'm unpacking this and being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1759.579,"endTime":1762.134,"body":"like, a lot of the time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1759.579,"endTime":1762.134,"body":"it's because they don't feel"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1762.134,"endTime":1763.134,"body":"like other people get it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1763.414,"endTime":1764.684,"body":"Their frustration is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1763.414,"endTime":1764.684,"body":"no, you don't get it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1764.704,"endTime":1765.364,"body":"We have to do this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1765.374,"endTime":1766.184,"body":"It's very important."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1766.424,"endTime":1769.774,"body":"And it's solved by having a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1766.424,"endTime":1769.774,"body":"conversation about it, doing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1769.7939999999999,"endTime":1771.584,"body":"a sort of planning pilgrim"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1769.7939999999999,"endTime":1771.584,"body":"exercise where we're talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1771.584,"endTime":1773.564,"body":"about why it's this way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1773.564,"endTime":1775.394,"body":"Why is this the 13 and not a 5?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1775.414,"endTime":1778.014,"body":"Why is this a hundred thousand"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1775.414,"endTime":1778.014,"body":"dollars and not $4,000?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1778.224,"endTime":1781.474,"body":"And then everybody gets it more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1778.224,"endTime":1781.474,"body":"from a different perspective."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1781.514,"endTime":1783.974,"body":"And it solves the problem of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1781.514,"endTime":1783.974,"body":"I'm the only one who gets it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1784.319,"endTime":1786.559,"body":"I have to make this decision"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1784.319,"endTime":1786.559,"body":"because I know it's important."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1786.599,"endTime":1786.819,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1786.819,"endTime":1787.999,"body":"Tell me why, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1786.819,"endTime":1787.999,"body":"let's talk about it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1787.999,"endTime":1790.799,"body":"And then we'll know too, maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1787.999,"endTime":1790.799,"body":"you're not fighting for it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1790.879,"endTime":1793.339,"body":"Maybe you are, but maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1790.879,"endTime":1793.339,"body":"you're also educating, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1793.339,"endTime":1795.229,"body":"You're educating everyone"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1793.339,"endTime":1795.229,"body":"else about why it's important."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1795.239,"endTime":1796.729,"body":"Then next time it comes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1795.239,"endTime":1796.729,"body":"up, everyone knows"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1796.729,"endTime":1797.4089999999999,"body":"why it's important."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1797.699,"endTime":1800.829,"body":"It's an educational piece"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1797.699,"endTime":1800.829,"body":"more than it is a shark tank."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1800.939,"endTime":1801.1589999999999,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1801.289,"endTime":1803.359,"body":"So show you're"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1801.289,"endTime":1803.359,"body":"working and ask why."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1803.559,"endTime":1803.859,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1804.039,"endTime":1804.219,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1804.709,"endTime":1806.739,"body":"I appreciate the sort of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1804.709,"endTime":1806.739,"body":"the thread of quick and dirty"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1806.739,"endTime":1809.399,"body":"and simplicity, because I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1806.739,"endTime":1809.399,"body":"think that happens a lot in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1809.399,"endTime":1810.149,"body":"project management, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1810.149,"endTime":1812.519,"body":"We start talking as project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1810.149,"endTime":1812.519,"body":"managers and, people who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1812.549,"endTime":1814.349,"body":"aren't in it, they might"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1812.549,"endTime":1814.349,"body":"roll their eyes a bit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1814.359,"endTime":1816.199,"body":"They're like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1814.359,"endTime":1816.199,"body":"who actually does that?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1816.199,"endTime":1818.399,"body":"Who actually has a risk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1816.199,"endTime":1818.399,"body":"register that they look at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1818.399,"endTime":1820.309,"body":"every day and talk about it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1818.399,"endTime":1820.309,"body":"with their team every day?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1820.309,"endTime":1822.849,"body":"And I'm sure they exist, but I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1820.309,"endTime":1822.849,"body":"don't know that it's as common"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1822.849,"endTime":1824.4189999999999,"body":"as people think it has to be."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1824.629,"endTime":1826.529,"body":"Mostly that's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1824.629,"endTime":1826.529,"body":"because those risk registers"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1826.579,"endTime":1827.759,"body":"don't have teeth, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1827.779,"endTime":1829.739,"body":"They don't call out"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1827.779,"endTime":1829.739,"body":"the contingency."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1830.269,"endTime":1831.639,"body":"I'd say almost a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1830.269,"endTime":1831.639,"body":"hundred percent of them."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1832.024,"endTime":1833.5439999999999,"body":"Guys, if you're listening"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1832.024,"endTime":1833.5439999999999,"body":"to this at the moment go"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1833.564,"endTime":1835.714,"body":"and have a look at your risk"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1833.564,"endTime":1835.714,"body":"register and see if it makes"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1835.724,"endTime":1839.114,"body":"the consequences of the risk"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1835.724,"endTime":1839.114,"body":"coming to fruition clear."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1839.444,"endTime":1841.0539999999999,"body":"I almost guarantee it doesn't."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1841.384,"endTime":1843.684,"body":"And if you put a number"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1841.384,"endTime":1843.684,"body":"against that, it can be"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1843.684,"endTime":1845.724,"body":"number of weeks or a cost."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1845.974,"endTime":1850.014,"body":"If this comes to pass, it"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1845.974,"endTime":1850.014,"body":"opens up better conversations."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1850.2939999999999,"endTime":1850.8039999999999,"body":"I like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1850.964,"endTime":1852.104,"body":"A risk register with teeth."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1852.574,"endTime":1854.684,"body":"I wondered if we, maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1852.574,"endTime":1854.684,"body":"we can round out with the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1854.694,"endTime":1856.274,"body":"other big question that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1854.694,"endTime":1856.274,"body":"some folks might have."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1856.2939999999999,"endTime":1861.559,"body":"Because a lot of this assumes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1856.2939999999999,"endTime":1861.559,"body":"that you are at the table that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1861.559,"endTime":1865.349,"body":"you are sort of interfacing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1861.559,"endTime":1865.349,"body":"with senior stakeholders, that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1865.349,"endTime":1867.879,"body":"you do own prioritization."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1868.089,"endTime":1870.4189999999999,"body":"But I'm sure there's some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1868.089,"endTime":1870.4189999999999,"body":"folks listening where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1870.4189999999999,"endTime":1872.279,"body":"they're like, I don't have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1870.4189999999999,"endTime":1872.279,"body":"the bandwidth to do this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1872.569,"endTime":1875.799,"body":"Maybe I'm actually told"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1872.569,"endTime":1875.799,"body":"that this is not my job,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1875.869,"endTime":1878.789,"body":"that I just take orders and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1875.869,"endTime":1878.789,"body":"deliver what's on that list."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1878.839,"endTime":1881.379,"body":"I'm not supposed to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1878.839,"endTime":1881.379,"body":"challenge it or question it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1881.629,"endTime":1883.559,"body":"For folks who are feeling like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1881.629,"endTime":1883.559,"body":"that, and they're like, that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1883.559,"endTime":1884.849,"body":"great James, but that's not me."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1884.999,"endTime":1887.149,"body":"My role is seen more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1884.999,"endTime":1887.149,"body":"as an order taker."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1887.149,"endTime":1888.589,"body":"I don't have these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1887.149,"endTime":1888.589,"body":"conversations."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1888.9189999999999,"endTime":1889.579,"body":"What can they do?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1889.579,"endTime":1890.199,"body":"Where can they start?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1890.369,"endTime":1890.559,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1890.559,"endTime":1891.849,"body":"That's hugely demotivating."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1892.229,"endTime":1894.999,"body":"First of all I mean, I agree"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1892.229,"endTime":1894.999,"body":"with Dan Pink's assessment of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1895.249,"endTime":1898.519,"body":"kind of what motivates people"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1895.249,"endTime":1898.519,"body":"like autonomy, mastery, purpose."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1898.809,"endTime":1901.079,"body":"And what you're describing there"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1898.809,"endTime":1901.079,"body":"gets rid of at least two of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1901.079,"endTime":1902.369,"body":"those and possibly all three."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1902.739,"endTime":1903.139,"body":"Brutal."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1903.1589999999999,"endTime":1906.9189999999999,"body":"I wouldn't be sticking around"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1903.1589999999999,"endTime":1906.9189999999999,"body":"very long, but I've been in"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1906.9189999999999,"endTime":1909.389,"body":"that place and I think you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1906.9189999999999,"endTime":1909.389,"body":"can change the behavior."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1909.819,"endTime":1913.699,"body":"So for me, I would be"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1909.819,"endTime":1913.699,"body":"getting into the room, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1913.859,"endTime":1916.129,"body":"I'd be finding ways of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1913.859,"endTime":1916.129,"body":"understanding things."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1916.489,"endTime":1918.069,"body":"That question asking why, okay."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1918.349,"endTime":1920.739,"body":"I don't necessarily have"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1918.349,"endTime":1920.739,"body":"to make all the decisions."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1920.749,"endTime":1922.809,"body":"I don't want necessarily to make"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1920.749,"endTime":1922.809,"body":"all the decisions, but I need"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1922.819,"endTime":1924.059,"body":"to make sure that they get made."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1924.299,"endTime":1925.839,"body":"So present the options up."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1926.199,"endTime":1928.619,"body":"At the moment, what's probably"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1926.199,"endTime":1928.619,"body":"happening is that senior"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1928.619,"endTime":1930.759,"body":"person doesn't understand"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1928.619,"endTime":1930.759,"body":"the consequences of the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1930.759,"endTime":1931.6789999999999,"body":"decisions they're making."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1932.069,"endTime":1935.959,"body":"So you've got to find ways of"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1932.069,"endTime":1935.959,"body":"showing them those consequences."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1936.369,"endTime":1938.849,"body":"And whether that's through"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1936.369,"endTime":1938.849,"body":"contingency or estimating"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1938.9089999999999,"endTime":1940.739,"body":"or just listening to them"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1938.9089999999999,"endTime":1940.739,"body":"and understanding where"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1940.739,"endTime":1943.549,"body":"they're coming from,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1940.739,"endTime":1943.549,"body":"these things are powerful."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1943.559,"endTime":1945.829,"body":"So I used to have a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1943.559,"endTime":1945.829,"body":"motorbike ride when I was"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1945.849,"endTime":1946.869,"body":"living in South London."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1946.869,"endTime":1948.4289999999999,"body":"I had a job in North London."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1948.4289999999999,"endTime":1950.479,"body":"I had an hour and a quarter"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1948.4289999999999,"endTime":1950.479,"body":"each way on the motorbike"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1950.489,"endTime":1951.249,"body":"through the middle of London."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1951.289,"endTime":1952.639,"body":"So I was concentrating"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1951.289,"endTime":1952.639,"body":"on the traffic."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1952.879,"endTime":1953.449,"body":"It was tough."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1953.449,"endTime":1953.949,"body":"It was cold."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1953.949,"endTime":1954.4089999999999,"body":"It was wet."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1954.6689999999999,"endTime":1956.349,"body":"But I had on my iPod."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1956.349,"endTime":1957.249,"body":"This is going back a few years."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1957.629,"endTime":1959.619,"body":"I had on my iPod, \"How to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1957.629,"endTime":1959.619,"body":"Win Friends and 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that is."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1996.989,"endTime":1997.839,"body":"And can I help with that?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1997.859,"endTime":1998.9089999999999,"body":"Do you want me to write"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1997.859,"endTime":1998.9089999999999,"body":"the minutes of that?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1998.959,"endTime":2000.599,"body":"Oh, why don't I"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":1998.959,"endTime":2000.599,"body":"organize that thing?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2000.939,"endTime":2002.6589999999999,"body":"And all of a sudden you're"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2000.939,"endTime":2002.6589999999999,"body":"in the meeting and then all"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2002.6589999999999,"endTime":2004.259,"body":"of a sudden you're writing"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2002.6589999999999,"endTime":2004.259,"body":"the minutes of the meeting."},{"speaker":"James 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that's the skill, right,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2013.574,"endTime":2017.314,"body":"finding the things that"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2017.314,"endTime":2019.504,"body":"are happening and getting"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2017.314,"endTime":2019.504,"body":"yourself into those and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2019.504,"endTime":2022.394,"body":"showing that you can do the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2019.504,"endTime":2022.394,"body":"thing that your boss is doing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2022.674,"endTime":2023.704,"body":"I love"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2022.674,"endTime":2023.704,"body":"that how it starts."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2023.764,"endTime":2026.924,"body":"It's funny because the sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2023.764,"endTime":2026.924,"body":"of start with why or ask why,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2027.254,"endTime":2028.274,"body":"it's a powerful question."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2028.564,"endTime":2030.474,"body":"In this context of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2028.564,"endTime":2030.474,"body":"prioritization and project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2030.474,"endTime":2032.764,"body":"management, often it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2030.474,"endTime":2032.764,"body":"seen as like a challenge."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2032.944,"endTime":2033.824,"body":"You're scrutinizing it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2033.824,"endTime":2034.984,"body":"You're like, Oh, but why?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2035.174,"endTime":2037.634,"body":"And people might get their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2035.174,"endTime":2037.634,"body":"backup, but you can also ask why"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2037.644,"endTime":2038.484,"body":"tell me why this is important."},{"speaker":"Galen 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right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2078.679,"endTime":2081.6690000000003,"body":"But once you've listened to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2078.679,"endTime":2081.6690000000003,"body":"them, sort of proactively"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2081.7290000000003,"endTime":2084.1490000000003,"body":"and confidently ask them a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2081.7290000000003,"endTime":2084.1490000000003,"body":"load of questions, they'll"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2084.1490000000003,"endTime":2084.989,"body":"return the favor, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2084.989,"endTime":2086.849,"body":"They'll listen to your"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2084.989,"endTime":2086.849,"body":"point of view, and then you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2086.849,"endTime":2088.8390000000004,"body":"can come to a conclusion,"},{"speaker":"James 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who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2167.184,"endTime":2169.594,"body":"are doing the work or will"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2167.184,"endTime":2169.594,"body":"be impacted by the work."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2169.804,"endTime":2170.0440000000003,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2170.0440000000003,"endTime":2171.8740000000003,"body":"At one stage in my"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2170.0440000000003,"endTime":2171.8740000000003,"body":"career, I was very proud."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2171.8740000000003,"endTime":2173.8740000000003,"body":"I called myself the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2171.8740000000003,"endTime":2173.8740000000003,"body":"scope of Rottweiler."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2174.244,"endTime":2175.954,"body":"And I was walking around going,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2174.244,"endTime":2175.954,"body":"we're not going to change 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better"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2186.0690000000004,"endTime":2186.8590000000004,"body":"conversation about this?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2186.889,"endTime":2188.809,"body":"I didn't really understand"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2186.889,"endTime":2188.809,"body":"Agile at that stage."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2188.809,"endTime":2190.239,"body":"And I didn't understand"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2188.809,"endTime":2190.239,"body":"the fact that you can make"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2190.2490000000003,"endTime":2192.549,"body":"better decisions later in"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2190.2490000000003,"endTime":2192.549,"body":"the project than you can"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2192.6090000000004,"endTime":2193.659,"body":"early in a lot of cases."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2193.799,"endTime":2195.9390000000003,"body":"But I do see people walking"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2193.799,"endTime":2195.9390000000003,"body":"around with exactly that"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2195.9590000000003,"endTime":2196.969,"body":"attitude all the time."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2197.259,"endTime":2198.549,"body":"Oh, scope management."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2198.789,"endTime":2200.4190000000003,"body":"I call it change"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2198.789,"endTime":2200.4190000000003,"body":"request purgatory."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2200.659,"endTime":2202.924,"body":"You put this massive"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2200.659,"endTime":2202.924,"body":"process around change"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2202.924,"endTime":2205.904,"body":"requests that put a huge"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2202.924,"endTime":2205.904,"body":"overhead on change requests."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2206.074,"endTime":2207.0840000000003,"body":"And so nobody does them."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2207.2540000000004,"endTime":2210.4440000000004,"body":"And so you miss these great"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2207.2540000000004,"endTime":2210.4440000000004,"body":"opportunities in projects and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2210.4440000000004,"endTime":2212.7140000000004,"body":"you end up doing stuff that"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2210.4440000000004,"endTime":2212.7140000000004,"body":"was thought about three years"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2212.7140000000004,"endTime":2216.934,"body":"ago and was signed off at the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2212.7140000000004,"endTime":2216.934,"body":"time, but is rubbish now, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2216.9440000000004,"endTime":2219.3740000000003,"body":"Just because the world's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2216.9440000000004,"endTime":2219.3740000000003,"body":"moved on and now we've got"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2219.3740000000003,"endTime":2220.434,"body":"different tools or whatever."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2220.8190000000004,"endTime":2223.3390000000004,"body":"And for me, I think that's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2220.8190000000004,"endTime":2223.3390000000004,"body":"the skill of the project"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2223.3590000000004,"endTime":2225.829,"body":"managers to understand, like"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2223.3590000000004,"endTime":2225.829,"body":"sometimes planning things out"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2225.829,"endTime":2227.889,"body":"is really important, but also"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2225.829,"endTime":2227.889,"body":"to understand that sometimes"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2227.889,"endTime":2229.9990000000003,"body":"you need to have a more agile"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2227.889,"endTime":2229.9990000000003,"body":"approach and understand and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2229.9990000000003,"endTime":2232.2690000000002,"body":"be able to descope things"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2229.9990000000003,"endTime":2232.2690000000002,"body":"and add scope things."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2232.4190000000003,"endTime":2233.989,"body":"As long as the right people"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2232.4190000000003,"endTime":2233.989,"body":"are making those decisions,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2233.9990000000003,"endTime":2235.8590000000004,"body":"they're involved in those"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2233.9990000000003,"endTime":2235.8590000000004,"body":"decisions, it can be quite"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2235.8590000000004,"endTime":2236.739,"body":"a positive discussion."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2237.009,"endTime":2237.2090000000003,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2237.469,"endTime":2238.3940000000002,"body":"First of all, who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2237.469,"endTime":2238.3940000000002,"body":"could blame you?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2238.3940000000002,"endTime":2241.0840000000003,"body":"That's how we're trained"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2238.3940000000002,"endTime":2241.0840000000003,"body":"as project managers to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2241.134,"endTime":2243.954,"body":"be the Rottweiler, defend"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2241.134,"endTime":2243.954,"body":"your scope at all costs,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2244.094,"endTime":2245.4440000000004,"body":"not be a collaborator."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2245.7340000000004,"endTime":2247.424,"body":"And honestly, it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2245.7340000000004,"endTime":2247.424,"body":"held the craft back."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2247.654,"endTime":2250.7940000000003,"body":"It's changing now, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2247.654,"endTime":2250.7940000000003,"body":"there's an entire, number"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2250.7940000000003,"endTime":2253.364,"body":"of generations of project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2250.7940000000003,"endTime":2253.364,"body":"managers who were trained that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2253.5040000000004,"endTime":2255.954,"body":"you should be the Rottweiler,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2253.5040000000004,"endTime":2255.954,"body":"you're the guardian, don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2255.954,"endTime":2257.054,"body":"let anything pass this door."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2257.3540000000003,"endTime":2259.5840000000003,"body":"And yeah, it's given us"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2257.3540000000003,"endTime":2259.5840000000003,"body":"a bad rap, to be honest."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2259.9840000000004,"endTime":2262.5440000000003,"body":"I wanted to land on one"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2259.9840000000004,"endTime":2262.5440000000003,"body":"thing, because I think you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2262.5440000000003,"endTime":2263.1940000000004,"body":"mentioned something important."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2263.204,"endTime":2265.804,"body":"You said, I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2263.204,"endTime":2265.804,"body":"as agile back then."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2265.8740000000003,"endTime":2268.304,"body":"And I know a lot of folks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2265.8740000000003,"endTime":2268.304,"body":"are like, prioritization"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2268.3140000000003,"endTime":2269.364,"body":"doesn't make it agile."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2269.3940000000002,"endTime":2271.5240000000003,"body":"And we've talked about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2269.3940000000002,"endTime":2271.5240000000003,"body":"things like planning poker."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2271.5240000000003,"endTime":2272.924,"body":"And we've talked about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2271.5240000000003,"endTime":2272.924,"body":"things like having a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2273.034,"endTime":2274.114,"body":"prioritized backlog."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2274.434,"endTime":2276.224,"body":"For folks who are like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2274.434,"endTime":2276.224,"body":"yeah, that's great, James,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2276.224,"endTime":2277.534,"body":"but I'm not doing scrum."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2277.594,"endTime":2280.184,"body":"Like I don't have a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2277.594,"endTime":2280.184,"body":"sprint planning session."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2280.4440000000004,"endTime":2283.719,"body":"Is what we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2280.4440000000004,"endTime":2283.719,"body":"rooted in Agile and Scrum or can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2283.719,"endTime":2285.489,"body":"this be done for any project?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2285.789,"endTime":2286.059,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2286.059,"endTime":2287.7490000000003,"body":"So this is one of the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2286.059,"endTime":2287.7490000000003,"body":"weird things that I've"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2287.7490000000003,"endTime":2289.449,"body":"noticed about most project"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2287.7490000000003,"endTime":2289.449,"body":"management training."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2289.539,"endTime":2290.739,"body":"And I love the PMI."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2290.739,"endTime":2291.6490000000003,"body":"I think PMI, great."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2291.6690000000003,"endTime":2293.529,"body":"I think as an organization,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2291.6690000000003,"endTime":2293.529,"body":"they do great things,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2293.539,"endTime":2296.1690000000003,"body":"but when they teach the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2293.539,"endTime":2296.1690000000003,"body":"PMP, they do this thing."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2296.179,"endTime":2297.1690000000003,"body":"It's you've got"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2296.179,"endTime":2297.1690000000003,"body":"to wear two hats."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2297.2290000000003,"endTime":2300.6090000000004,"body":"You've got to either be"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2297.2290000000003,"endTime":2300.6090000000004,"body":"predictive or agile, and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2300.6090000000004,"endTime":2302.0190000000002,"body":"I just think it's wrong."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2302.5690000000004,"endTime":2306.3990000000003,"body":"The skill is to build a toolbox"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2302.5690000000004,"endTime":2306.3990000000003,"body":"of ideas and approaches, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2306.6290000000004,"endTime":2310.469,"body":"If a daily standup is going"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2306.6290000000004,"endTime":2310.469,"body":"to be useful on your project,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2310.8390000000004,"endTime":2312.159,"body":"then use a daily standup."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2312.1690000000003,"endTime":2314.5890000000004,"body":"It doesn't matter that someone"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2312.1690000000003,"endTime":2314.5890000000004,"body":"in the scrum world thought"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2314.599,"endTime":2315.929,"body":"of it as a good thing to do."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2316.119,"endTime":2318.489,"body":"You can still do that"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2316.119,"endTime":2318.489,"body":"on a waterfall project."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2318.809,"endTime":2322.219,"body":"If a risk log is a useful"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2318.809,"endTime":2322.219,"body":"thing to have on your project,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2322.409,"endTime":2325.079,"body":"it doesn't matter that's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2322.409,"endTime":2325.079,"body":"a waterfall-y type thing."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2325.279,"endTime":2327.809,"body":"It still can be useful"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2325.279,"endTime":2327.809,"body":"on an agile project."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2328.099,"endTime":2331.6290000000004,"body":"And for me, I want to empower"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2328.099,"endTime":2331.6290000000004,"body":"project managers, project teams,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2331.799,"endTime":2334.994,"body":"to understand that there's, you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2331.799,"endTime":2334.994,"body":"break it down into loads and"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2334.994,"endTime":2337.634,"body":"loads of different tools, some"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2334.994,"endTime":2337.634,"body":"of which come together in a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2337.634,"endTime":2340.9440000000004,"body":"lovely methodology like Scrum,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2337.634,"endTime":2340.9440000000004,"body":"or in a lovely methodology like"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2340.974,"endTime":2343.989,"body":"PRINCE2, both of those have"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2340.974,"endTime":2343.989,"body":"their place, and both of those"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2343.989,"endTime":2345.639,"body":"are useful in their context."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2345.829,"endTime":2349.1690000000003,"body":"Unfortunately, your context"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2345.829,"endTime":2349.1690000000003,"body":"is unlikely to be perfect for"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2349.1690000000003,"endTime":2351.3990000000003,"body":"Scrum, or perfect for PRINCE2."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2351.7090000000003,"endTime":2354.279,"body":"So understand that maybe"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2351.7090000000003,"endTime":2354.279,"body":"a stage gate is useful,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2354.3790000000004,"endTime":2356.6690000000003,"body":"sometimes, to get sign off"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2354.3790000000004,"endTime":2356.6690000000003,"body":"on things, and get people"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2356.6690000000003,"endTime":2357.8190000000004,"body":"to move forward on things."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2358.0190000000002,"endTime":2360.539,"body":"But also, that maybe,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2358.0190000000002,"endTime":2360.539,"body":"a prioritised backlog"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2360.7090000000003,"endTime":2361.409,"body":"might be useful."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2361.5890000000004,"endTime":2364.2290000000003,"body":"And you can do your design"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2361.5890000000004,"endTime":2364.2290000000003,"body":"phase in an iterative way."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2364.409,"endTime":2366.279,"body":"And maybe then you build a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2364.409,"endTime":2366.279,"body":"building off the back of that,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2366.309,"endTime":2367.469,"body":"and it's a waterfall project."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2367.7290000000003,"endTime":2369.639,"body":"But I think that's the skill."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2369.9190000000003,"endTime":2372.309,"body":"And I think people are a"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2369.9190000000003,"endTime":2372.309,"body":"bit scared of that stuff."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2372.549,"endTime":2375.2690000000002,"body":"So many people did agile badly"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2372.549,"endTime":2375.2690000000002,"body":"right at the beginning, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2375.2690000000002,"endTime":2376.9790000000003,"body":"And they just went, Oh,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2375.2690000000002,"endTime":2376.9790000000003,"body":"that means no documentation."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2376.9790000000003,"endTime":2378.5690000000004,"body":"And we just make stuff"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2376.9790000000003,"endTime":2378.5690000000004,"body":"up when nobody's going"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2378.5690000000004,"endTime":2379.159,"body":"to make any decisions."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2379.159,"endTime":2381.099,"body":"We're just it became like"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2379.159,"endTime":2381.099,"body":"not project management."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2381.119,"endTime":2382.7290000000003,"body":"It's we're just not going to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2381.119,"endTime":2382.7290000000003,"body":"do project management at all."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2382.9590000000003,"endTime":2384.909,"body":"Whereas actually, if you take"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2382.9590000000003,"endTime":2384.909,"body":"a little bit of the right"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2384.9190000000003,"endTime":2388.289,"body":"structures in place and you"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2384.9190000000003,"endTime":2388.289,"body":"do things like that, I mean,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2388.289,"endTime":2391.279,"body":"for me, the artifacts and the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2388.289,"endTime":2391.279,"body":"ceremonies and things in scrum,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2391.3190000000004,"endTime":2395.059,"body":"I, not onerous, but there's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2391.3190000000004,"endTime":2395.059,"body":"quite useful framework, right?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2395.3790000000004,"endTime":2397.4190000000003,"body":"But there can be just as"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2395.3790000000004,"endTime":2397.4190000000003,"body":"much documentation in that"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2397.449,"endTime":2399.029,"body":"context as your company needs."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2399.429,"endTime":2401.619,"body":"And I think that's the skill"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2399.429,"endTime":2401.619,"body":"is finding the right balance"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2401.639,"endTime":2405.309,"body":"because your project, your"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2401.639,"endTime":2405.309,"body":"organization, your team is"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2405.4190000000003,"endTime":2407.369,"body":"different than everybody else's."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2407.7490000000003,"endTime":2412.1290000000004,"body":"So be confident, learn as"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2407.7490000000003,"endTime":2412.1290000000004,"body":"much as you can, and play the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2412.289,"endTime":2415.039,"body":"right bits that you have to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2412.289,"endTime":2415.039,"body":"play to deliver your outcomes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2415.299,"endTime":2415.739,"body":"Boom."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2415.989,"endTime":2418.079,"body":"That might actually be a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2415.989,"endTime":2418.079,"body":"great place to leave it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2418.489,"endTime":2421.349,"body":"James, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2418.489,"endTime":2421.349,"body":"spending time with me talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2421.349,"endTime":2423.449,"body":"about prioritization, but we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2421.349,"endTime":2423.449,"body":"also covered risk management,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2423.449,"endTime":2425.849,"body":"we talked methodologies,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2423.449,"endTime":2425.849,"body":"we talked collaboration"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2425.849,"endTime":2427.539,"body":"and people and, politics."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2427.8390000000004,"endTime":2428.719,"body":"This has been great fun."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2428.909,"endTime":2429.9990000000003,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2428.909,"endTime":2429.9990000000003,"body":"been a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2430.1890000000003,"endTime":2430.6090000000004,"body":"A lot of fun."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2430.6090000000004,"endTime":2431.429,"body":"Thanks ever so much, Galen."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2431.6890000000003,"endTime":2433.699,"body":"Before I let"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2431.6890000000003,"endTime":2433.699,"body":"you go, where can people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2433.7140000000004,"endTime":2435.134,"body":"learn more about your book?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2435.134,"endTime":2436.134,"body":"Where can they get a copy?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2436.134,"endTime":2438.054,"body":"Where can they sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2436.134,"endTime":2438.054,"body":"of get the audio book?"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2438.244,"endTime":2440.594,"body":"My website"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2438.244,"endTime":2440.594,"body":"is impactfulpm.com."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2440.804,"endTime":2442.284,"body":"I'm on LinkedIn,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2440.804,"endTime":2442.284,"body":"so James Louttit."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2442.304,"endTime":2443.6440000000002,"body":"I'm quite easy to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2442.304,"endTime":2443.6440000000002,"body":"find on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2443.654,"endTime":2444.844,"body":"So reach out to me on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2445.034,"endTime":2447.824,"body":"The audio book's on Audible"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2445.034,"endTime":2447.824,"body":"and it will be coming to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2447.824,"endTime":2448.974,"body":"other places very soon."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2449.244,"endTime":2450.824,"body":"And the book's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2449.244,"endTime":2450.824,"body":"available on Amazon."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2450.844,"endTime":2452.7340000000004,"body":"You can order it from all the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2450.844,"endTime":2452.7340000000004,"body":"other shops as well, but it's"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2452.744,"endTime":2455.3190000000004,"body":"not on the shelves very much"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2452.744,"endTime":2455.3190000000004,"body":"because it's, as a new author"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2455.3190000000004,"endTime":2457.929,"body":"it's surprisingly difficult to"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2455.3190000000004,"endTime":2457.929,"body":"get a book like this out there."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2458.159,"endTime":2460.0190000000002,"body":"But it does have higher"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2458.159,"endTime":2460.0190000000002,"body":"ratings than all the"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2460.0190000000002,"endTime":2462.199,"body":"other project management"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2460.0190000000002,"endTime":2462.199,"body":"books and more reviews"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2462.199,"endTime":2463.119,"body":"and everything on Amazon."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2463.119,"endTime":2465.7490000000003,"body":"So it's going really well,"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2463.119,"endTime":2465.7490000000003,"body":"and I think we'll get it"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2465.759,"endTime":2467.4390000000003,"body":"started getting out there"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2465.759,"endTime":2467.4390000000003,"body":"in the bookshops, hopefully"},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2467.4390000000003,"endTime":2468.3390000000004,"body":"over the next few years."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2468.704,"endTime":2469.054,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2469.054,"endTime":2470.3340000000003,"body":"I think it's going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2469.054,"endTime":2470.3340000000003,"body":"to build steam."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2470.554,"endTime":2471.2340000000004,"body":"It's visual."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2471.2340000000004,"endTime":2473.0640000000003,"body":"You've got an illustrator"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2471.2340000000004,"endTime":2473.0640000000003,"body":"working with you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2473.074,"endTime":2474.5040000000004,"body":"It's not just a wall of text."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2474.684,"endTime":2476.554,"body":"The audio book sounds"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2474.684,"endTime":2476.554,"body":"super interesting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2476.5640000000003,"endTime":2478.324,"body":"And honestly, I love your style."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2478.324,"endTime":2480.164,"body":"And hopefully our listeners"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2478.324,"endTime":2480.164,"body":"love your style as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2480.164,"endTime":2482.2940000000003,"body":"And there's more of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2480.164,"endTime":2482.2940000000003,"body":"it in James material."},{"speaker":"James Louttit","startTime":2482.554,"endTime":2485.054,"body":"Thanks, Galen."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2485.074,"endTime":2486.3340000000003,"body":"All right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2485.074,"endTime":2486.3340000000003,"body":"folks, there you have it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2486.494,"endTime":2488.554,"body":"As always, if you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2486.494,"endTime":2488.554,"body":"join the conversation with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2488.554,"endTime":2490.7140000000004,"body":"over a thousand like-minded"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2488.554,"endTime":2490.7140000000004,"body":"project management champions,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2491.159,"endTime":2492.1090000000004,"body":"come join our collective!"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2492.389,"endTime":2495.579,"body":"Head on over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2492.389,"endTime":2495.579,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com/membership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2495.599,"endTime":2496.119,"body":"to learn more."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2496.579,"endTime":2498.6890000000003,"body":"And if you like what you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2496.579,"endTime":2498.6890000000003,"body":"heard today, please subscribe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2498.6890000000003,"endTime":2501.5690000000004,"body":"and stay in touch on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2498.6890000000003,"endTime":2501.5690000000004,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2501.5890000000004,"endTime":2503.329,"body":"Until next time,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2501.5890000000004,"endTime":2503.329,"body":"thanks for listening."}]}