{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":22.28,"endTime":25.130000000000003,"body":"Billing by the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":22.28,"endTime":25.130000000000003,"body":"hour never reflected value"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":25.400000000000002,"endTime":28.64,"body":"and it rewards inefficiency"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":25.400000000000002,"endTime":28.64,"body":"and penalizes innovation."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":28.85,"endTime":32.57,"body":"There's an agency that we worked"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":28.85,"endTime":32.57,"body":"with, we moved from charging"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":32.69,"endTime":36.35,"body":"hours for both their strategy"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":32.69,"endTime":36.35,"body":"services, packaged that with"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":36.35,"endTime":39.53,"body":"their design services, they"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":36.35,"endTime":39.53,"body":"were able to sell that back to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":39.53,"endTime":43.61,"body":"the same clients and they sold"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":39.53,"endTime":43.61,"body":"it at a 66% higher price point."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":43.790000000000006,"endTime":45.769999999999996,"body":"Is AI the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":43.790000000000006,"endTime":45.769999999999996,"body":"nail in the coffin for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":45.769999999999996,"endTime":46.760000000000005,"body":"a billable hours model?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":47.78,"endTime":49.010000000000005,"body":"It absolutely is."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":53.99,"endTime":55.25,"body":"Hey folks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":53.99,"endTime":55.25,"body":"thanks for tuning in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":55.25,"endTime":57.799,"body":"My name is Galen Low with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":55.25,"endTime":57.799,"body":"the Digital Project Manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":58.07,"endTime":60.5,"body":"We are a community of digital"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":58.07,"endTime":60.5,"body":"professionals on a mission"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":60.5,"endTime":62.54,"body":"to help each other get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":60.5,"endTime":62.54,"body":"skilled, get confident, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":62.54,"endTime":65.06,"body":"get connected so that we can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":62.54,"endTime":65.06,"body":"amplify the value of project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":65.06,"endTime":66.62,"body":"management in a digital world."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":67.045,"endTime":68.845,"body":"If you wanna hear more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":67.045,"endTime":68.845,"body":"about that, head on over"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":68.845,"endTime":71.935,"body":"to thedpm.com/membership."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":71.965,"endTime":74.215,"body":"Alright, today we're talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":71.965,"endTime":74.215,"body":"about whether billing by the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":74.215,"endTime":78.11500000000001,"body":"hour is being made irrelevant"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":74.215,"endTime":78.11500000000001,"body":"by AI and what agencies should"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":78.11500000000001,"endTime":81.355,"body":"be doing about it to focus on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":78.11500000000001,"endTime":81.355,"body":"the value being created rather"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":81.355,"endTime":82.705,"body":"than the time being spent."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":83.315,"endTime":86.555,"body":"With me today is Brian Kessman,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":83.315,"endTime":86.555,"body":"founder of Lodestar Agency"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":86.555,"endTime":89.165,"body":"Consulting, where he helps"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":86.555,"endTime":89.165,"body":"independent agencies and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":89.165,"endTime":92.105,"body":"multinational networks move"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":89.165,"endTime":92.105,"body":"their firms beyond billable"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":92.105,"endTime":93.665,"body":"hours and commoditized services."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":94.265,"endTime":96.995,"body":"He works with leadership teams"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":94.265,"endTime":96.995,"body":"to reposition their expertise,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":97.265,"endTime":101.045,"body":"productize their value and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":97.265,"endTime":101.045,"body":"price based on impact building"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":101.045,"endTime":104.555,"body":"scalable, high margin models,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":101.045,"endTime":104.555,"body":"centered on client outcomes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":104.645,"endTime":106.775,"body":"Brian, thanks for being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":104.645,"endTime":106.775,"body":"back with me today."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":107.135,"endTime":108.005,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":107.135,"endTime":108.005,"body":"it was my pleasure."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":108.005,"endTime":108.975,"body":"Thanks for having me back."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":108.975,"endTime":110.375,"body":"This is always a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":110.705,"endTime":111.815,"body":"I always love"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":110.705,"endTime":111.815,"body":"having you on the show."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":112.35,"endTime":114.36,"body":"You've been doing such"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":112.35,"endTime":114.36,"body":"interesting stuff lately."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":114.36,"endTime":117.069,"body":"You and I, we've been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":114.36,"endTime":117.069,"body":"collaborating for years and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":117.069,"endTime":120.85,"body":"what is happening right now"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":117.069,"endTime":120.85,"body":"is just so of the essence."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":120.85,"endTime":123.55,"body":"I teed it up at the top, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":120.85,"endTime":123.55,"body":"my community is buzzing about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":123.55,"endTime":126.64,"body":"this idea of what becomes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":123.55,"endTime":126.64,"body":"of time and materials, what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":126.64,"endTime":130.03,"body":"becomes of billable hours"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":126.64,"endTime":130.03,"body":"in a world where AI is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":130.03,"endTime":131.44,"body":"getting things done faster."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":131.82999999999998,"endTime":133.24,"body":"It's not the only question."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":133.51,"endTime":136.3,"body":"I know that some of the work"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":133.51,"endTime":136.3,"body":"that you've been doing to work"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":136.3,"endTime":137.5,"body":"on different pricing models."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":137.815,"endTime":140.725,"body":"In some ways predated the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":137.815,"endTime":140.725,"body":"sort of big wave of AI that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":140.725,"endTime":141.95499999999998,"body":"we're dealing with right now."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":142.435,"endTime":145.575,"body":"I thought I would just dive"},{"speaker":"Galen 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would?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":172.665,"endTime":177.105,"body":"So my hot question is this,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":172.665,"endTime":177.105,"body":"is ai the nail in the coffin"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":177.135,"endTime":178.395,"body":"for a billable hours model?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":178.845,"endTime":180.225,"body":"It absolutely is."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":180.705,"endTime":184.245,"body":"It's not that AI is actually"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":180.705,"endTime":184.245,"body":"breaking the model that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":184.245,"endTime":185.295,"body":"we've all been using, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":185.295,"endTime":188.475,"body":"That model is working"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":185.295,"endTime":188.475,"body":"exactly as it was designed."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":188.475,"endTime":190.725,"body":"It's just not built to capture"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":188.475,"endTime":190.725,"body":"the strategic value that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":190.725,"endTime":192.285,"body":"agencies are actually providing."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":192.76500000000001,"endTime":194.865,"body":"And so what we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":192.76500000000001,"endTime":194.865,"body":"is what AI has done is to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":194.865,"endTime":198.825,"body":"make that misalignment just"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":194.865,"endTime":198.825,"body":"impossible to ignore any"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":198.825,"endTime":200.625,"body":"longer, impossible to tolerate."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":200.985,"endTime":204.255,"body":"Billing by the hour has"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":200.985,"endTime":204.255,"body":"really never reflected how"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":204.255,"endTime":206.415,"body":"clients perceive value anyway."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":206.745,"endTime":209.955,"body":"And it rewards inefficiency"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":206.745,"endTime":209.955,"body":"and penalizes innovation"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":210.225,"endTime":213.76500000000001,"body":"completely misses the impact"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":210.225,"endTime":213.76500000000001,"body":"that great agencies deliver."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":214.155,"endTime":218.745,"body":"It's just that it's the wrong"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":214.155,"endTime":218.745,"body":"model and AI has really exposed"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":218.745,"endTime":220.725,"body":"just how outdated it really is."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":220.725,"endTime":225.195,"body":"But I gotta say, the shift"},{"speaker":"Brian 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Low","startTime":236.865,"endTime":237.585,"body":"Yeah, I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":237.585,"endTime":239.715,"body":"And like the quintessential"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":237.585,"endTime":239.715,"body":"billable hour for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":239.715,"endTime":240.705,"body":"me is like lawyers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":241.065,"endTime":243.225,"body":"And for some reason that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":241.065,"endTime":243.225,"body":"value makes sense 'cause"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":243.225,"endTime":246.885,"body":"I'm like, I have no idea"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":243.225,"endTime":246.885,"body":"where the law might take me."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":246.885,"endTime":247.905,"body":"I'm in your hands, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":247.905,"endTime":248.565,"body":"I trust you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":248.865,"endTime":252.135,"body":"The value for me is that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":248.865,"endTime":252.135,"body":"you'll take the time and your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":252.135,"endTime":255.735,"body":"knowledge of the law to help"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":252.135,"endTime":255.735,"body":"me navigate towards my goal."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":256.365,"endTime":259.065,"body":"And I'm not like nickel I mean"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":256.365,"endTime":259.065,"body":"I personally am not the person"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":259.065,"endTime":260.145,"body":"like, show me the time sheet."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":260.145,"endTime":260.445,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":260.775,"endTime":262.755,"body":"Show me the half hour you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":260.775,"endTime":262.755,"body":"spent where you drafted"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":263.055,"endTime":265.515,"body":"this paperwork is typically"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":263.055,"endTime":265.515,"body":"not how I look at it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":265.515,"endTime":269.685,"body":"Whereas agency, it's been that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":265.515,"endTime":269.685,"body":"model where it's almost been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":269.685,"endTime":272.235,"body":"just convenient because I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":269.685,"endTime":272.235,"body":"it started that way, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":272.235,"endTime":273.425,"body":"Where it's we're not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":272.235,"endTime":273.425,"body":"sure what we want."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":273.425,"endTime":276.905,"body":"We trust you bill us by the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":273.425,"endTime":276.905,"body":"hour and let's like try and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":276.905,"endTime":277.925,"body":"stay within this budget."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":278.255,"endTime":280.17499999999995,"body":"And now it's like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":278.255,"endTime":280.17499999999995,"body":"far more scrutinized."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":280.66999999999996,"endTime":283.58000000000004,"body":"I think folks do it because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":280.66999999999996,"endTime":283.58000000000004,"body":"it's easier in theory, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":283.58000000000004,"endTime":286.25,"body":"You get paid for every"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":283.58000000000004,"endTime":286.25,"body":"hour of work that you do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":286.73,"endTime":290.0,"body":"and it's not like super"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":286.73,"endTime":290.0,"body":"high margin stuff, but at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":290.0,"endTime":291.32000000000005,"body":"least you're like covered."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":291.32000000000005,"endTime":294.23,"body":"So in some ways it's seen"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":291.32000000000005,"endTime":294.23,"body":"as less risky than like a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":294.23,"endTime":297.77,"body":"fixed price engagement where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":294.23,"endTime":297.77,"body":"like an agency would have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":297.77,"endTime":300.40999999999997,"body":"to manage the profitability"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":297.77,"endTime":300.40999999999997,"body":"within that fixed amount."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":300.89,"endTime":302.87,"body":"But I guess it begs"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":300.89,"endTime":302.87,"body":"the question, which is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":303.20000000000005,"endTime":306.04999999999995,"body":"beyond fixed price and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":303.20000000000005,"endTime":306.04999999999995,"body":"like time and materials."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":306.365,"endTime":307.475,"body":"What is the alternative?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":307.83500000000004,"endTime":311.04499999999996,"body":"Are we talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":307.83500000000004,"endTime":311.04499999999996,"body":"value-based pricing or are we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":311.04499999999996,"endTime":313.625,"body":"talking about another model"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":311.04499999999996,"endTime":313.625,"body":"that might make more sense?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":314.04499999999996,"endTime":315.905,"body":"Where do we go from these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":314.04499999999996,"endTime":315.905,"body":"models that we've been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":315.905,"endTime":318.78499999999997,"body":"like sitting on resting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":315.905,"endTime":318.78499999999997,"body":"our laurels on for years?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":319.115,"endTime":319.385,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":319.395,"endTime":323.05499999999995,"body":"The hourly model has been"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":319.395,"endTime":323.05499999999995,"body":"easy and convenient for sure."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":323.05499999999995,"endTime":327.015,"body":"It hasn't really forced"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":323.05499999999995,"endTime":327.015,"body":"agencies on a large scale to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":327.015,"endTime":328.57500000000005,"body":"rethink their value, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":328.57500000000005,"endTime":331.66499999999996,"body":"We've seen a lot of comfort"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":328.57500000000005,"endTime":331.66499999999996,"body":"around defining our value"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":331.66499999999996,"endTime":334.21500000000003,"body":"based on the billable hour,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":331.66499999999996,"endTime":334.21500000000003,"body":"but we need to go past that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":334.21500000000003,"endTime":337.30499999999995,"body":"And we've seen leading"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":334.21500000000003,"endTime":337.30499999999995,"body":"agencies shift their models"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":337.30499999999995,"endTime":340.725,"body":"well before ai and they've"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":337.30499999999995,"endTime":340.725,"body":"been, doing extremely well"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":340.725,"endTime":342.225,"body":"by pricing their impact."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":342.58500000000004,"endTime":344.44500000000005,"body":"Now we're just seeing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":342.58500000000004,"endTime":344.44500000000005,"body":"there's no choice."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":344.44500000000005,"endTime":347.505,"body":"Everybody has to go in this"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":344.44500000000005,"endTime":347.505,"body":"direction unless they want to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":347.505,"endTime":349.995,"body":"compete on price, and that's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":347.505,"endTime":349.995,"body":"not a winning situation."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":349.995,"endTime":353.08500000000004,"body":"So you asked if value-based"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":349.995,"endTime":353.08500000000004,"body":"pricing is the way forward"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":353.08500000000004,"endTime":355.21500000000003,"body":"and it's part of it, but"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":353.08500000000004,"endTime":355.21500000000003,"body":"the deeper shift is really"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":355.21500000000003,"endTime":357.765,"body":"moving from selling time"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":355.21500000000003,"endTime":357.765,"body":"to selling solutions."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":357.765,"endTime":360.43499999999995,"body":"And that's so that value-based"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":357.765,"endTime":360.43499999999995,"body":"pricing can actually make sense."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":360.82500000000005,"endTime":362.83500000000004,"body":"There are multiple pricing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":360.82500000000005,"endTime":362.83500000000004,"body":"models actually that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":362.83500000000004,"endTime":364.06500000000005,"body":"align with this approach."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":364.06500000000005,"endTime":367.30499999999995,"body":"We see fixed fee, performance"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":364.06500000000005,"endTime":367.30499999999995,"body":"based subscriptions,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":367.30499999999995,"endTime":368.95500000000004,"body":"even licensing ip."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":369.374,"endTime":372.855,"body":"And I think of these all as"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":369.374,"endTime":372.855,"body":"value aligned pricing models"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":372.855,"endTime":375.70500000000004,"body":"because the goal isn't to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":372.855,"endTime":375.70500000000004,"body":"change how we charge, but"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":375.70500000000004,"endTime":378.345,"body":"to better reflect the value"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":375.70500000000004,"endTime":378.345,"body":"that we're actually creating."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":378.855,"endTime":381.735,"body":"But there's a catch to use any"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":378.855,"endTime":381.735,"body":"of these models effectively."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":382.21500000000003,"endTime":384.884,"body":"You have to first reimagine"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":382.21500000000003,"endTime":384.884,"body":"how your agency creates"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":384.884,"endTime":386.08500000000004,"body":"and delivers value."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":386.56399999999996,"endTime":389.53499999999997,"body":"Because if you're still selling"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":386.56399999999996,"endTime":389.53499999999997,"body":"capabilities and activities,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":389.53499999999997,"endTime":391.995,"body":"then you're right back in"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":389.53499999999997,"endTime":391.995,"body":"the conversation about time"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":391.995,"endTime":394.41999999999996,"body":"and effort, and that's what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":391.995,"endTime":394.41999999999996,"body":"really drags you into those."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":395.17499999999995,"endTime":397.605,"body":"Conversations that are about"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":395.17499999999995,"endTime":397.605,"body":"comparing you to competitors"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":397.605,"endTime":400.635,"body":"or having to negotiate and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":397.605,"endTime":400.635,"body":"you're seen as a commodity."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":400.635,"endTime":404.41499999999996,"body":"So if what you sell can"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":400.635,"endTime":404.41499999999996,"body":"just be easily compared"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":404.41499999999996,"endTime":406.515,"body":"to what other firms offer,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":404.41499999999996,"endTime":406.515,"body":"then you're always gonna be"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":406.515,"endTime":407.775,"body":"fighting for your margins."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":407.775,"endTime":411.225,"body":"And that's why that real shift"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":407.775,"endTime":411.225,"body":"isn't just about pricing."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":411.225,"endTime":413.625,"body":"It's also about a couple"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":411.225,"endTime":413.625,"body":"key things, how you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":413.625,"endTime":416.775,"body":"position your firm, how"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":413.625,"endTime":416.775,"body":"you package your value, how"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":416.775,"endTime":418.30499999999995,"body":"you deliver your expertise."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":419.03999999999996,"endTime":422.82000000000005,"body":"That's exactly what the agency"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":419.03999999999996,"endTime":422.82000000000005,"body":"value model is designed to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":422.82000000000005,"endTime":424.91999999999996,"body":"address, which is, I know"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":422.82000000000005,"endTime":424.91999999999996,"body":"something we're gonna talk"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":424.91999999999996,"endTime":427.55999999999995,"body":"about, but before we get into"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":424.91999999999996,"endTime":427.55999999999995,"body":"that I just want to hear what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":427.55999999999995,"endTime":430.345,"body":"are you seeing or hearing from"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":427.55999999999995,"endTime":430.345,"body":"your audience related to this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":430.67499999999995,"endTime":433.43499999999995,"body":"So like the reason"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":430.67499999999995,"endTime":433.43499999999995,"body":"why a lot of the time material"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":433.43499999999995,"endTime":436.55499999999995,"body":"stuff is in contention right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":433.43499999999995,"endTime":436.55499999999995,"body":"now, it's causing some anxiety"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":436.55499999999995,"endTime":439.255,"body":"in my community is because of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":436.55499999999995,"endTime":439.255,"body":"exactly what you said, it sounds"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":439.255,"endTime":440.30499999999995,"body":"like a race to the bottom."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":440.57500000000005,"endTime":443.155,"body":"So now there's like different"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":440.57500000000005,"endTime":443.155,"body":"margins you can play with."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":443.515,"endTime":447.145,"body":"And again, not just ai, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":443.515,"endTime":447.145,"body":"nearshoring offshoring, like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":447.145,"endTime":449.57500000000005,"body":"the labor costs can go down"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":447.145,"endTime":449.57500000000005,"body":"and therefore the rate that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":449.57500000000005,"endTime":450.80499999999995,"body":"you bill at can go down."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":450.80499999999995,"endTime":453.265,"body":"And all of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":450.80499999999995,"endTime":453.265,"body":"agencies who aren't."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":453.6,"endTime":456.02,"body":"Taking advantage of that or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":453.6,"endTime":456.02,"body":"their, maybe their thing is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":456.02,"endTime":458.36,"body":"yeah, we're all local, we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":456.02,"endTime":458.36,"body":"a local boutique agency."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":458.36,"endTime":461.28,"body":"We all live in this city,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":458.36,"endTime":461.28,"body":"suddenly they are twice the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":461.28,"endTime":464.70000000000005,"body":"price of someone who is like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":461.28,"endTime":464.70000000000005,"body":"outsourcing or leveraging ai."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":465.03,"endTime":467.99,"body":"And I think the argument"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":465.03,"endTime":467.99,"body":"is, okay, some of this, the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":467.99,"endTime":469.82000000000005,"body":"race to the bottom stuff,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":467.99,"endTime":469.82000000000005,"body":"you mentioned at the top,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":469.82000000000005,"endTime":474.26,"body":"like the commodification"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":469.82000000000005,"endTime":474.26,"body":"of like digital services is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":474.59000000000003,"endTime":478.78,"body":"basically it's changing the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":474.59000000000003,"endTime":478.78,"body":"competitive model to just be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":478.78,"endTime":480.61,"body":"like the lowest price, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":480.61,"endTime":482.67999999999995,"body":"And that's like the only"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":480.61,"endTime":482.67999999999995,"body":"way you can survive."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":482.95000000000005,"endTime":484.99,"body":"And then there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":482.95000000000005,"endTime":484.99,"body":"folks that are trying to."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":485.93499999999995,"endTime":489.18499999999995,"body":"Not necessarily reimagine"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":485.93499999999995,"endTime":489.18499999999995,"body":"their value, but add value."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":489.18499999999995,"endTime":492.18499999999995,"body":"I see a lot of smaller agencies"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":489.18499999999995,"endTime":492.18499999999995,"body":"arcing towards, oh, we also,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":492.18499999999995,"endTime":495.06500000000005,"body":"maybe they were mostly like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":492.18499999999995,"endTime":495.06500000000005,"body":"a dev build shop, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":495.06500000000005,"endTime":497.495,"body":"Maybe they're mostly"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":495.06500000000005,"endTime":497.495,"body":"developers and some designers"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":497.495,"endTime":499.595,"body":"and they're like, okay, we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":497.495,"endTime":499.595,"body":"wanna, we should do strategy"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":499.595,"endTime":500.765,"body":"'cause that's more valuable."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":500.975,"endTime":502.41499999999996,"body":"We should have that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":500.975,"endTime":502.41499999999996,"body":"as an offering."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":502.655,"endTime":505.355,"body":"Which as you can imagine is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":502.655,"endTime":505.355,"body":"like standing up a whole new"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":505.355,"endTime":506.405,"body":"offering with like staff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":506.405,"endTime":508.41499999999996,"body":"You don't have that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":506.405,"endTime":508.41499999999996,"body":"is, it's risky."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":508.41499999999996,"endTime":509.31500000000005,"body":"It's not overnight."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":509.31500000000005,"endTime":510.03499999999997,"body":"It takes a lot."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":510.33500000000004,"endTime":511.80499999999995,"body":"I like what you're saying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":510.33500000000004,"endTime":511.80499999999995,"body":"though, because it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":511.855,"endTime":513.925,"body":"the first step is not to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":511.855,"endTime":513.925,"body":"change your pricing model."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":514.285,"endTime":517.405,"body":"The first step is to rethink the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":514.285,"endTime":517.405,"body":"value you're already delivering."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":517.825,"endTime":520.105,"body":"And I think that's like a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":517.825,"endTime":520.105,"body":"message that I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":520.105,"endTime":523.615,"body":"folks that I talk to need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":520.105,"endTime":523.615,"body":"hear because the competition"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":523.615,"endTime":526.945,"body":"is not about, oh, the value"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":523.615,"endTime":526.945,"body":"that you're delivering"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":526.945,"endTime":528.415,"body":"isn't good enough anymore."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":528.895,"endTime":531.625,"body":"It's just that the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":528.895,"endTime":531.625,"body":"way it's perceived."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":532.12,"endTime":534.73,"body":"Can either go two directions,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":532.12,"endTime":534.73,"body":"either it's like very"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":534.73,"endTime":538.03,"body":"commodified and it should only"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":534.73,"endTime":538.03,"body":"cost $5 because I can get that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":538.0799999999999,"endTime":541.0799999999999,"body":"or I can build it, using an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":538.0799999999999,"endTime":541.0799999999999,"body":"AI tool, or I can get Wix or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":541.0799999999999,"endTime":543.48,"body":"like I don't need to pay that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":541.0799999999999,"endTime":543.48,"body":"much for my website all the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":543.48,"endTime":546.02,"body":"way to the other side, which is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":543.48,"endTime":546.02,"body":"okay, we do all these things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":546.02,"endTime":547.79,"body":"It's an all in one"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":546.02,"endTime":547.79,"body":"sort of package."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":547.79,"endTime":550.9399999999999,"body":"That cohesion between value is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":547.79,"endTime":550.9399999999999,"body":"the thing that makes it cost"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":550.9399999999999,"endTime":553.3399999999999,"body":"a lot of money, and they're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":550.9399999999999,"endTime":553.3399999999999,"body":"hanging their hat on that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":553.85,"endTime":556.1899999999999,"body":"I like what you're saying about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":553.85,"endTime":556.1899999999999,"body":"the solutions and the outcomes,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":556.38,"endTime":558.72,"body":"I come from a bit of a business"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":556.38,"endTime":558.72,"body":"development side too, where I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":558.72,"endTime":561.41,"body":"like, that requires the whole"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":558.72,"endTime":561.41,"body":"pitch has to be different."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":561.41,"endTime":563.18,"body":"The whole value proposition"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":561.41,"endTime":563.18,"body":"has to be different."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":563.18,"endTime":565.25,"body":"Like the way we talk about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":563.18,"endTime":565.25,"body":"our work has to be different"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":565.49,"endTime":567.5699999999999,"body":"and then the engagement"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":565.49,"endTime":567.5699999999999,"body":"model can be different."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":567.93,"endTime":569.04,"body":"Yeah, you're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":567.93,"endTime":569.04,"body":"a hundred percent right."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":569.04,"endTime":571.56,"body":"There are agencies that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":569.04,"endTime":571.56,"body":"are doing great work out"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":571.56,"endTime":573.9599999999999,"body":"there, but their model,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":571.56,"endTime":573.9599999999999,"body":"their revenue model, the way"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":573.9599999999999,"endTime":576.9,"body":"they talk about themselves,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":573.9599999999999,"endTime":576.9,"body":"they're really undervaluing."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":577.56,"endTime":580.4399999999999,"body":"What they can do, and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":577.56,"endTime":580.4399999999999,"body":"clients are just not seeing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":580.4399999999999,"endTime":581.67,"body":"them for all their worth."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":581.67,"endTime":582.8399999999999,"body":"And so that's what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":581.67,"endTime":582.8399999999999,"body":"this is about."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":583.26,"endTime":585.6,"body":"It's making that shift first"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":583.26,"endTime":585.6,"body":"because you can't just go and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":585.6,"endTime":589.17,"body":"price the same work that is"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":585.6,"endTime":589.17,"body":"perceived as low value all of a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":589.17,"endTime":590.31,"body":"sudden at a higher price point."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":590.88,"endTime":593.1,"body":"It's just that agencies"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":590.88,"endTime":593.1,"body":"have been underselling"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":593.1,"endTime":594.39,"body":"themselves for too long."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":594.39,"endTime":597.0,"body":"So first we need to correct"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":594.39,"endTime":597.0,"body":"that, and then we can"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":597.0,"endTime":600.12,"body":"actually build on that and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":597.0,"endTime":600.12,"body":"then achieve better pricing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":600.54,"endTime":602.52,"body":"Do you have any"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":600.54,"endTime":602.52,"body":"like examples out in the wild"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":602.52,"endTime":605.03,"body":"that you can talk us through"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":602.52,"endTime":605.03,"body":"just to see how maybe that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":605.03,"endTime":607.43,"body":"transition went and what the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":605.03,"endTime":607.43,"body":"sort of pricing model looks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":607.43,"endTime":609.6899999999999,"body":"like now for an organization"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":607.43,"endTime":609.6899999999999,"body":"that you've worked with?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":610.4889999999999,"endTime":612.649,"body":"At a high level,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":610.4889999999999,"endTime":612.649,"body":"I'll describe, there's a model"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":612.649,"endTime":614.149,"body":"that we recommend most often."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":614.4789999999999,"endTime":618.919,"body":"It's a tiered fixed pricing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":614.4789999999999,"endTime":618.919,"body":"model for what we'd refer to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":618.919,"endTime":620.4789999999999,"body":"as a productized solution."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":620.9599999999999,"endTime":624.3489999999999,"body":"And so if you imagine each tier"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":620.9599999999999,"endTime":624.3489999999999,"body":"is designed and priced based"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":624.3489999999999,"endTime":628.069,"body":"on the value that the tier"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":624.3489999999999,"endTime":628.069,"body":"creates, not effort at all."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":628.069,"endTime":628.669,"body":"Not time."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":628.669,"endTime":631.129,"body":"Certainly we use time to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":628.669,"endTime":631.129,"body":"understand our costs, but"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":631.129,"endTime":632.509,"body":"that's not what we're pricing."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":632.9889999999999,"endTime":637.069,"body":"And so if you were imagine as"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":632.9889999999999,"endTime":637.069,"body":"an example, a brand strategy"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":637.069,"endTime":638.9889999999999,"body":"program that has three tiers."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":639.3489999999999,"endTime":642.41,"body":"One is focused on helping"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":639.3489999999999,"endTime":642.41,"body":"your client first achieve a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":642.41,"endTime":644.87,"body":"foundational level of clarity"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":642.41,"endTime":644.87,"body":"on their target market."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":645.3199999999999,"endTime":647.93,"body":"The next tier would be"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":645.3199999999999,"endTime":647.93,"body":"something more in depth,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":647.93,"endTime":650.4499999999999,"body":"positioning, the positioning"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":647.93,"endTime":650.4499999999999,"body":"strategy around that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":651.02,"endTime":654.35,"body":"And then we go to the third,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":651.02,"endTime":654.35,"body":"which would be all of what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":654.35,"endTime":657.11,"body":"I just said, plus including"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":654.35,"endTime":657.11,"body":"the go to market strategy"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":657.11,"endTime":658.4599999999999,"body":"and activities behind that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":659.0,"endTime":661.16,"body":"So with that, each one"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":659.0,"endTime":661.16,"body":"leads, you can imagine the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":661.16,"endTime":663.62,"body":"different set of outcomes"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":661.16,"endTime":663.62,"body":"behind each of those tiers."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":664.055,"endTime":667.805,"body":"But I also, I need to say that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":664.055,"endTime":667.805,"body":"this example's pretty simplistic"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":667.805,"endTime":670.5939999999999,"body":"just to make the point of how"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":667.805,"endTime":670.5939999999999,"body":"to structure the offerings."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":671.045,"endTime":675.9649999999999,"body":"But we do need to push past any"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":671.045,"endTime":675.9649999999999,"body":"sort of thinking about existing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":675.9649999999999,"endTime":678.394,"body":"services, 'cause that's what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":675.9649999999999,"endTime":678.394,"body":"I'm describing, the traditional"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":678.394,"endTime":679.744,"body":"brand strategy type of service."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":680.165,"endTime":682.9839999999999,"body":"What we actually need to do"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":680.165,"endTime":682.9839999999999,"body":"is not start from a place"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":682.9839999999999,"endTime":685.9549999999999,"body":"of services, but start from"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":682.9839999999999,"endTime":685.9549999999999,"body":"the problem that you're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":685.9549999999999,"endTime":687.244,"body":"solving for your client."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":687.8,"endTime":688.8489999999999,"body":"There's more to that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":688.8489999999999,"endTime":691.6999999999999,"body":"I wanna unpack that it's your"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":688.8489999999999,"endTime":691.6999999999999,"body":"best fit client, not just"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":691.6999999999999,"endTime":694.43,"body":"for any client, but who are"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":691.6999999999999,"endTime":694.43,"body":"the clients that value your"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":694.43,"endTime":697.79,"body":"expertise the most, that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":694.43,"endTime":697.79,"body":"gain the greatest benefit and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":697.79,"endTime":700.3399999999999,"body":"impact from your services,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":697.79,"endTime":700.3399999999999,"body":"because you're gonna be"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":700.3399999999999,"endTime":702.65,"body":"able to hone in on their"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":700.3399999999999,"endTime":702.65,"body":"problems better than others."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":702.65,"endTime":706.16,"body":"And so when you can then"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":702.65,"endTime":706.16,"body":"extract what are the high value"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":706.16,"endTime":709.76,"body":"problems of those best fit"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":706.16,"endTime":709.76,"body":"clients, that's the next step."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":709.76,"endTime":712.3399999999999,"body":"Again, not any problem, but"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":709.76,"endTime":712.3399999999999,"body":"the problems that live at the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":712.3399999999999,"endTime":713.81,"body":"higher ends of the value chain."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":714.23,"endTime":717.41,"body":"'cause we do wanna elevate"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":714.23,"endTime":717.41,"body":"agencies away from execution"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":717.41,"endTime":720.0799999999999,"body":"and production as we see"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":717.41,"endTime":720.0799999999999,"body":"that being taken over either"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":720.0799999999999,"endTime":721.3399999999999,"body":"by in-house teams or ai."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":721.91,"endTime":723.86,"body":"So what are those"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":721.91,"endTime":723.86,"body":"high value problems of"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":723.86,"endTime":724.85,"body":"your best fit clients?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":724.85,"endTime":728.2099999999999,"body":"And at that point we can"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":724.85,"endTime":728.2099999999999,"body":"now think what is the most"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":728.2099999999999,"endTime":732.47,"body":"ideal solution that we can"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":728.2099999999999,"endTime":732.47,"body":"design to solve that problem?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":732.5,"endTime":735.1999999999999,"body":"And yes, we'll pull from"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":732.5,"endTime":735.1999999999999,"body":"our existing services, but"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":735.1999999999999,"endTime":738.35,"body":"what else can we do that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":735.1999999999999,"endTime":738.35,"body":"we are uniquely qualified?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":738.6949999999999,"endTime":742.5649999999999,"body":"To develop on top of existing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":738.6949999999999,"endTime":742.5649999999999,"body":"services, and that leads us"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":742.5649999999999,"endTime":744.365,"body":"to how do we leverage ai?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":744.395,"endTime":745.2339999999999,"body":"We haven't done that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":745.2339999999999,"endTime":748.5939999999999,"body":"This is the opportunity to build"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":745.2339999999999,"endTime":748.5939999999999,"body":"either proprietary products or"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":748.5939999999999,"endTime":752.1039999999999,"body":"a hybrid of a people powered"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":748.5939999999999,"endTime":752.1039999999999,"body":"and AI powered type of offering."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":752.405,"endTime":754.865,"body":"And so that's where we can"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":752.405,"endTime":754.865,"body":"then start to innovate and then"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":754.865,"endTime":757.9549999999999,"body":"differentiate through these"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":754.865,"endTime":757.9549999999999,"body":"solutions and then finally put"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":757.9549999999999,"endTime":760.745,"body":"it into the tiers and frame it"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":757.9549999999999,"endTime":760.745,"body":"with the proper value and so on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":761.045,"endTime":762.8149999999999,"body":"You tapped into the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":761.045,"endTime":762.8149999999999,"body":"big thing that I was thinking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":762.8149999999999,"endTime":765.275,"body":"of, which is like for some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":762.8149999999999,"endTime":765.275,"body":"agencies I've worked for in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":765.275,"endTime":766.02,"body":"the past who I won't name."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":766.67,"endTime":767.99,"body":"It's exactly as you described."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":767.99,"endTime":769.9399999999999,"body":"They understand the service"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":767.99,"endTime":769.9399999999999,"body":"they provide, but they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":769.9399999999999,"endTime":772.01,"body":"didn't really understand the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":769.9399999999999,"endTime":772.01,"body":"problem they were solving."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":772.4,"endTime":775.0699999999999,"body":"And sometimes a business"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":772.4,"endTime":775.0699999999999,"body":"model is like more clients"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":775.0699999999999,"endTime":776.0899999999999,"body":"from anywhere, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":776.0899999999999,"endTime":778.61,"body":"The sort of maybe a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":776.0899999999999,"endTime":778.61,"body":"geographic like back in the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":778.61,"endTime":779.93,"body":"early two thousands, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":779.93,"endTime":781.31,"body":"You could dominate a region."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":781.3399999999999,"endTime":783.98,"body":"You could be like, we did"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":781.3399999999999,"endTime":783.98,"body":"everyone's website from"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":783.98,"endTime":787.37,"body":"like the pizza place to the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":783.98,"endTime":787.37,"body":"political party, to this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":787.37,"endTime":790.85,"body":"industrial manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":787.37,"endTime":790.85,"body":"company, all in this city."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":790.85,"endTime":792.11,"body":"And they come to us"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":790.85,"endTime":792.11,"body":"because we're local."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":792.47,"endTime":792.675,"body":"And then."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":793.625,"endTime":795.785,"body":"We didn't really develop"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":793.625,"endTime":795.785,"body":"that depth of understanding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":795.785,"endTime":796.3249999999999,"body":"of the problem."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":796.3249999999999,"endTime":798.645,"body":"Whereas, I've been talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":796.3249999999999,"endTime":798.645,"body":"with more agencies lately that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":798.645,"endTime":799.755,"body":"are more industry aligned."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":800.055,"endTime":802.785,"body":"They go very narrow into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":800.055,"endTime":802.785,"body":"their niche because they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":802.785,"endTime":803.9549999999999,"body":"can understand the problem."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":803.9549999999999,"endTime":805.995,"body":"They have confidence that they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":803.9549999999999,"endTime":805.995,"body":"understand what those problems"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":806.295,"endTime":808.275,"body":"are with their best fit clients."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":808.635,"endTime":810.795,"body":"They understand their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":808.635,"endTime":810.795,"body":"clients' business in enough"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":810.795,"endTime":812.7149999999999,"body":"depth, and they have enough"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":810.795,"endTime":812.7149999999999,"body":"confidence that they understand"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":812.7149999999999,"endTime":813.645,"body":"that's part of their pitch."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":813.885,"endTime":815.775,"body":"And they can go, we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":813.885,"endTime":815.775,"body":"really understand."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":816.24,"endTime":817.05,"body":"Orthodontics."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":817.0799999999999,"endTime":818.64,"body":"We really understand"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":817.0799999999999,"endTime":818.64,"body":"real estate."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":818.64,"endTime":821.4599999999999,"body":"We really understand real estate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":818.64,"endTime":821.4599999999999,"body":"in this particular market,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":821.76,"endTime":825.27,"body":"and developing the expertise"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":821.76,"endTime":825.27,"body":"of the client business, not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":825.27,"endTime":826.7099999999999,"body":"necessarily the expertise."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":826.7099999999999,"endTime":829.05,"body":"In tandem, with the expertise"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":826.7099999999999,"endTime":829.05,"body":"that you offer as an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":829.05,"endTime":831.42,"body":"agency, but fundamentally,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":829.05,"endTime":831.42,"body":"those are your tools."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":831.81,"endTime":835.0799999999999,"body":"To build the house, not like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":831.81,"endTime":835.0799999999999,"body":"putting your tools out on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":835.0799999999999,"endTime":836.97,"body":"loan for in an hourly rate."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":837.27,"endTime":839.61,"body":"And so you're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":837.27,"endTime":839.61,"body":"touching on the next evolution"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":839.61,"endTime":841.9689999999999,"body":"of the the next pattern"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":839.61,"endTime":841.9689999999999,"body":"and positioning that we're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":841.9689999999999,"endTime":843.62,"body":"seeing across agencies."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":843.62,"endTime":846.23,"body":"Normally agencies will"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":843.62,"endTime":846.23,"body":"have positioned either"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":846.53,"endTime":849.9499999999999,"body":"with a category focus or"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":846.53,"endTime":849.9499999999999,"body":"a service specialization."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":850.28,"endTime":853.97,"body":"We focus only, we're a digital"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":850.28,"endTime":853.97,"body":"agency for B2B brands, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":853.97,"endTime":856.31,"body":"So that's the combination"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":853.97,"endTime":856.31,"body":"of both of those and that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":856.31,"endTime":858.56,"body":"was always strongest when"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":856.31,"endTime":858.56,"body":"you'd go into a pitch."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":858.8299999999999,"endTime":860.87,"body":"If you can combine both"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":858.8299999999999,"endTime":860.87,"body":"a category focus and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":860.87,"endTime":862.55,"body":"service specialization,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":860.87,"endTime":862.55,"body":"you're in a great spot."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":863.03,"endTime":865.9399999999999,"body":"But now most of the industry"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":863.03,"endTime":865.9399999999999,"body":"is caught up, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":865.9399999999999,"endTime":869.0899999999999,"body":"Many agencies have at least"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":865.9399999999999,"endTime":869.0899999999999,"body":"one or perhaps both of those"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":869.0899999999999,"endTime":870.3199999999999,"body":"types of specializations."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":870.68,"endTime":875.06,"body":"And so we need to go deeper than"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":870.68,"endTime":875.06,"body":"that just to stay competitive or"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":875.06,"endTime":876.17,"body":"ahead of the competition, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":876.17,"endTime":879.65,"body":"So what we wanna do is"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":876.17,"endTime":879.65,"body":"go a level deeper based"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":879.65,"endTime":882.11,"body":"on the category and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":879.65,"endTime":882.11,"body":"service specialization."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":882.11,"endTime":885.26,"body":"Again, what are now those"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":882.11,"endTime":885.26,"body":"problems that we can solve"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":885.26,"endTime":886.4599999999999,"body":"better than other firms?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":886.91,"endTime":889.79,"body":"And what are the outcomes that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":886.91,"endTime":889.79,"body":"we can produce consistently"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":889.79,"endTime":892.49,"body":"because of how we work,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":889.79,"endTime":892.49,"body":"the actual methodology,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":892.49,"endTime":895.97,"body":"our philosophies, or rather"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":892.49,"endTime":895.97,"body":"the productized solutions"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":895.97,"endTime":896.8399999999999,"body":"that we've developed."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":897.35,"endTime":900.1089999999999,"body":"And then we can show our proof"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":897.35,"endTime":900.1089999999999,"body":"that the proof points, the case"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":900.1089999999999,"endTime":904.01,"body":"studies, the stories that builds"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":900.1089999999999,"endTime":904.01,"body":"the overall value framework"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":904.0699999999999,"endTime":907.04,"body":"that you use to communicate"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":904.0699999999999,"endTime":907.04,"body":"to clients, to the market."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":907.31,"endTime":909.1089999999999,"body":"Does this tie into,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":907.31,"endTime":909.1089999999999,"body":"'cause I've been seeing some of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":909.1089999999999,"endTime":911.7189999999999,"body":"your posts lately, and I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":909.1089999999999,"endTime":911.7189999999999,"body":"there was you had a piece in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":911.7189999999999,"endTime":915.5989999999999,"body":"adage mentioning and you called"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":911.7189999999999,"endTime":915.5989999999999,"body":"it out earlier, that your agency"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":915.5989999999999,"endTime":917.4,"body":"value model, does that tie in?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":917.4,"endTime":921.2389999999999,"body":"And if so, can you break down"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":917.4,"endTime":921.2389999999999,"body":"what it is and like why it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":921.2389999999999,"endTime":922.68,"body":"matters for agencies right now?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":923.129,"endTime":924.9,"body":"So it's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":923.129,"endTime":924.9,"body":"not just a pricing model."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":925.4549999999999,"endTime":928.6039999999999,"body":"It is a full framework for how"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":925.4549999999999,"endTime":928.6039999999999,"body":"agencies, again, create package"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":928.6039999999999,"endTime":931.564,"body":"price and deliver their value,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":928.6039999999999,"endTime":931.564,"body":"but it's meant to help them"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":931.564,"endTime":932.824,"body":"do that in a scalable way."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":932.824,"endTime":936.124,"body":"And as you said, it's the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":932.824,"endTime":936.124,"body":"agency value model, and there's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":936.124,"endTime":939.634,"body":"two connected systems that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":936.124,"endTime":939.634,"body":"make up the entire model."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":939.634,"endTime":942.2139999999999,"body":"One is the value creation"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":939.634,"endTime":942.2139999999999,"body":"system, which if you think about"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":942.2139999999999,"endTime":945.424,"body":"this, it's more about how you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":942.2139999999999,"endTime":945.424,"body":"define what your agency does"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":945.424,"endTime":948.004,"body":"differently and better than"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":945.424,"endTime":948.004,"body":"other options out there that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":948.004,"endTime":949.024,"body":"your clients have available."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":949.074,"endTime":952.584,"body":"It's where you start to design"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":949.074,"endTime":952.584,"body":"your structured solutions that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":952.584,"endTime":956.244,"body":"reflect your expertise, which"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":952.584,"endTime":956.244,"body":"is comes from your positioning."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":956.694,"endTime":959.334,"body":"And those solutions are purpose"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":956.694,"endTime":959.334,"body":"built to solve, again, those"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":959.334,"endTime":962.244,"body":"high value client problems,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":959.334,"endTime":962.244,"body":"which leads into then the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":962.244,"endTime":964.884,"body":"second part of the system, which"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":962.244,"endTime":964.884,"body":"is the value capture system."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":964.884,"endTime":968.064,"body":"And that's how do you scope"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":964.884,"endTime":968.064,"body":"and deliver and price that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":968.064,"endTime":971.574,"body":"value consistently in a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":968.064,"endTime":971.574,"body":"way that's scalable and we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":971.574,"endTime":972.924,"body":"can maintain profitability."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":972.924,"endTime":975.2339999999999,"body":"And so you're, how do you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":972.924,"endTime":975.2339999999999,"body":"create and capture value?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":975.744,"endTime":980.304,"body":"So within that, under those two"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":975.744,"endTime":980.304,"body":"systems, there's four, I refer"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":980.304,"endTime":983.034,"body":"to 'em as four levers that you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":980.304,"endTime":983.034,"body":"can use to fine tune the model."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":983.514,"endTime":985.704,"body":"And so I touched on some"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":983.514,"endTime":985.704,"body":"of these already, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":985.704,"endTime":988.314,"body":"Positioning is the first"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":985.704,"endTime":988.314,"body":"one, positioning what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":988.314,"endTime":989.574,"body":"your unique value is."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":989.574,"endTime":990.384,"body":"You build on that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":990.384,"endTime":994.4639999999999,"body":"Then with productizing that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":990.384,"endTime":994.4639999999999,"body":"value into structured solutions."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":994.824,"endTime":996.834,"body":"And then you're preparing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":994.824,"endTime":996.834,"body":"your people as the third"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":996.834,"endTime":1000.314,"body":"step to make sure they are"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":996.834,"endTime":1000.314,"body":"prepared to confidently"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1000.314,"endTime":1003.554,"body":"speak to and sell and deliver"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1000.314,"endTime":1003.554,"body":"that value, because that's."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1004.019,"endTime":1006.6139999999999,"body":"One of the breaking points"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1004.019,"endTime":1006.6139999999999,"body":"we see people fall back on"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1006.6139999999999,"endTime":1009.524,"body":"old habits of talking about"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1006.6139999999999,"endTime":1009.524,"body":"costs and time and so on."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1010.034,"endTime":1012.284,"body":"And then finally, the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1010.034,"endTime":1012.284,"body":"fourth lever is pricing."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1012.644,"endTime":1015.374,"body":"Pricing based on outcomes or"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1012.644,"endTime":1015.374,"body":"impact, not effort, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1015.374,"endTime":1018.404,"body":"But so many conversations today"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1015.374,"endTime":1018.404,"body":"that I have with agencies,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1018.584,"endTime":1019.634,"body":"this starts with pricing."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1019.634,"endTime":1022.544,"body":"We need help with pricing,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1019.634,"endTime":1022.544,"body":"and we need to introduce the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1022.574,"endTime":1025.2440000000001,"body":"model so that we can see are"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1022.574,"endTime":1025.2440000000001,"body":"all the other pieces aligned"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1025.2440000000001,"endTime":1028.0040000000001,"body":"so that you can effectively"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1025.2440000000001,"endTime":1028.0040000000001,"body":"price 'em the way that you want."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1028.439,"endTime":1029.969,"body":"And so that's how"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1028.439,"endTime":1029.969,"body":"this model helps."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1029.969,"endTime":1032.759,"body":"It's really meant for the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1029.969,"endTime":1032.759,"body":"current marketplace, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1033.059,"endTime":1035.789,"body":"That's really driven"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1033.059,"endTime":1035.789,"body":"by AI and automation."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1035.789,"endTime":1038.279,"body":"And so of course, time-based"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1035.789,"endTime":1038.279,"body":"approaches don't work."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1038.729,"endTime":1042.509,"body":"And so this helps to shift away"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1038.729,"endTime":1042.509,"body":"from that, from selling time"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1042.509,"endTime":1044.6390000000001,"body":"to selling outcomes, making"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1042.509,"endTime":1044.6390000000001,"body":"sure all the right pieces"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1044.6390000000001,"endTime":1047.55,"body":"are in place first before you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1044.6390000000001,"endTime":1047.55,"body":"attempt that, and then you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1047.55,"endTime":1049.199,"body":"can start to scale your value."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1049.619,"endTime":1051.349,"body":"I like it as like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1049.619,"endTime":1051.349,"body":"a sort of transformation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1051.349,"endTime":1052.04,"body":"process, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1052.04,"endTime":1054.56,"body":"You need to go through"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1052.04,"endTime":1054.56,"body":"these things in order to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1054.98,"endTime":1056.1499999999999,"body":"benefit on the other side."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1056.524,"endTime":1057.7839999999999,"body":"To play the devil's advocate."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1058.145,"endTime":1059.855,"body":"Some of our listeners might"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1058.145,"endTime":1059.855,"body":"be thinking that sounds like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1060.185,"endTime":1064.085,"body":"brand strategy and positioning"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1060.185,"endTime":1064.085,"body":"plus fixed price model."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1064.445,"endTime":1066.995,"body":"Ultimately, it's still like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1064.445,"endTime":1066.995,"body":"this, you get this price tag."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1067.0249999999999,"endTime":1070.615,"body":"Maybe there's different tiers,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1067.0249999999999,"endTime":1070.615,"body":"but functionally, my project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1070.615,"endTime":1073.795,"body":"manager audience are like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1070.615,"endTime":1073.795,"body":"we still have to manage time as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1073.795,"endTime":1075.565,"body":"our margin within this product."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1075.925,"endTime":1076.675,"body":"Is that true?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1076.675,"endTime":1080.5149999999999,"body":"What makes it more productized"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1076.675,"endTime":1080.5149999999999,"body":"than just a fixed fee"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1080.725,"endTime":1081.595,"body":"prepackaged offering?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1082.1499999999999,"endTime":1084.07,"body":"It comes down to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1082.1499999999999,"endTime":1084.07,"body":"the difference between what I've"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1084.07,"endTime":1087.04,"body":"heard as productizing services"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1084.07,"endTime":1087.04,"body":"versus productizing value."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1087.49,"endTime":1089.02,"body":"I think that's the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1087.49,"endTime":1089.02,"body":"starting place for the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1089.02,"endTime":1089.98,"body":"answer to your question."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1089.98,"endTime":1092.62,"body":"I think when you think about"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1089.98,"endTime":1092.62,"body":"productizing services, you can"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1092.62,"endTime":1095.5,"body":"think of taking all the existing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1092.62,"endTime":1095.5,"body":"services you already do today"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1096.01,"endTime":1099.19,"body":"and just thinking how do we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1096.01,"endTime":1099.19,"body":"bundle them and then we put a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1099.19,"endTime":1101.56,"body":"price tag on that so that we're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1099.19,"endTime":1101.56,"body":"not pricing any one of them,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1101.56,"endTime":1103.03,"body":"but it's now it's a package."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1103.11,"endTime":1103.74,"body":"And that's great."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1103.74,"endTime":1105.06,"body":"And there are a lot of firms."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1105.57,"endTime":1108.09,"body":"Companies, even outside"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1105.57,"endTime":1108.09,"body":"of agencies that have"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1108.09,"endTime":1109.23,"body":"been doing this for ages."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1109.23,"endTime":1111.87,"body":"And then there's the other"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1109.23,"endTime":1111.87,"body":"side, productizing value,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1112.2,"endTime":1115.26,"body":"which goes to what I was"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1112.2,"endTime":1115.26,"body":"sharing earlier, rethinking"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1115.62,"endTime":1116.97,"body":"what that value actually is."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1116.97,"endTime":1119.76,"body":"It's not the services that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1116.97,"endTime":1119.76,"body":"the other example was."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1119.81,"endTime":1122.0,"body":"Certainly clients are"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1119.81,"endTime":1122.0,"body":"buying those services."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1122.57,"endTime":1124.67,"body":"But what they're really buying"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1122.57,"endTime":1124.67,"body":"is a solution to a problem."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1124.67,"endTime":1126.8,"body":"And so that's a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1124.67,"endTime":1126.8,"body":"different starting point."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1126.8,"endTime":1129.41,"body":"We start again from the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1126.8,"endTime":1129.41,"body":"place of the problem that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1129.41,"endTime":1131.99,"body":"we need to solve and the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1129.41,"endTime":1131.99,"body":"most ideal solution, and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1131.99,"endTime":1134.48,"body":"we think very differently"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1131.99,"endTime":1134.48,"body":"about how we can solve it."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1134.99,"endTime":1137.45,"body":"And then from there"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1134.99,"endTime":1137.45,"body":"we frame it around the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1137.45,"endTime":1138.86,"body":"value of that solution."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1138.86,"endTime":1141.35,"body":"Whereas in the other example,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1138.86,"endTime":1141.35,"body":"if you're productizing services."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1141.71,"endTime":1144.83,"body":"It's largely, in most cases,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1141.71,"endTime":1144.83,"body":"still based on time, still"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1144.83,"endTime":1148.07,"body":"based on effort to deliver"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1144.83,"endTime":1148.07,"body":"those services as opposed to the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1148.07,"endTime":1151.16,"body":"impact of a problem, which is"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1148.07,"endTime":1151.16,"body":"the starting point for the other"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1151.46,"endTime":1153.35,"body":"example that I'm giving you,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1151.46,"endTime":1153.35,"body":"which is where we play, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1153.3799999999999,"endTime":1154.55,"body":"Productizing value."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1154.55,"endTime":1156.23,"body":"And it's really important"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1154.55,"endTime":1156.23,"body":"to think about that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1156.56,"endTime":1159.35,"body":"A lot of agencies that we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1156.56,"endTime":1159.35,"body":"speak with that have attempted"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1159.35,"endTime":1162.53,"body":"this before we get a chance to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1159.35,"endTime":1162.53,"body":"talk, they see partway through"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1162.53,"endTime":1165.05,"body":"our engagements, there's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1162.53,"endTime":1165.05,"body":"this aha moment that happens"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1165.41,"endTime":1167.45,"body":"and they're like, oh, I see"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1165.41,"endTime":1167.45,"body":"where we were going wrong."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1167.45,"endTime":1169.58,"body":"Because we were always"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1167.45,"endTime":1169.58,"body":"coming at it from a place of."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1169.94,"endTime":1172.76,"body":"Our inputs, the process,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1169.94,"endTime":1172.76,"body":"the phases of our work, the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1172.76,"endTime":1176.27,"body":"deliverables, the actual"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1172.76,"endTime":1176.27,"body":"capabilities and services."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1176.69,"endTime":1178.1,"body":"And we were always"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1176.69,"endTime":1178.1,"body":"stuck in the same."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1178.1,"endTime":1180.35,"body":"We just felt like we weren't"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1178.1,"endTime":1180.35,"body":"getting to that next level."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1180.62,"endTime":1182.69,"body":"And so when you can start"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1180.62,"endTime":1182.69,"body":"from a different place and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1182.74,"endTime":1185.1399999999999,"body":"it's actually one of the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1182.74,"endTime":1185.1399999999999,"body":"hardest steps is really"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1185.1399999999999,"endTime":1188.56,"body":"defining those problems you're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1185.1399999999999,"endTime":1188.56,"body":"uniquely qualified to solve."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1189.0249999999999,"endTime":1192.685,"body":"There are so many pieces that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1189.0249999999999,"endTime":1192.685,"body":"need to be connected to lead"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1192.685,"endTime":1194.155,"body":"up to the ability to do that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1194.155,"endTime":1196.465,"body":"And when you do, then you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1194.155,"endTime":1196.465,"body":"can design some pretty"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1196.465,"endTime":1197.425,"body":"compelling solutions."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1197.705,"endTime":1201.165,"body":"We could talk about the results"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1197.705,"endTime":1201.165,"body":"we've seen, in our clients'"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1201.555,"endTime":1204.285,"body":"work, but in all that, but I"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1201.555,"endTime":1204.285,"body":"just wanted to pause there."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1204.58,"endTime":1206.02,"body":"I think that answers"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1204.58,"endTime":1206.02,"body":"your question."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1206.2,"endTime":1206.92,"body":"Oh, a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1206.2,"endTime":1206.92,"body":"hundred percent."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1206.92,"endTime":1209.92,"body":"No, it absolutely does because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1206.92,"endTime":1209.92,"body":"the scrutiny becomes different."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1209.92,"endTime":1212.56,"body":"Scrutiny is not about getting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1209.92,"endTime":1212.56,"body":"it done, getting the things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1212.56,"endTime":1213.58,"body":"done that we said we'd do."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1213.85,"endTime":1215.47,"body":"It's scrutinizing the impact."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1215.47,"endTime":1218.53,"body":"That's actually what the sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1215.47,"endTime":1218.53,"body":"of client scrutiny becomes, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1218.53,"endTime":1221.11,"body":"that's what's different than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1218.53,"endTime":1221.11,"body":"standard fixed price stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1221.11,"endTime":1223.18,"body":"Like here's the list of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1221.11,"endTime":1223.18,"body":"stuff that you said you'd"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1223.18,"endTime":1225.3999999999999,"body":"deliver, and did I get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1223.18,"endTime":1225.3999999999999,"body":"it or did I not get it?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1225.3999999999999,"endTime":1226.84,"body":"You haven't delivered"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1225.3999999999999,"endTime":1226.84,"body":"that last one."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1227.1399999999999,"endTime":1229.36,"body":"I don't care if you're at budget"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1227.1399999999999,"endTime":1229.36,"body":"right now, but I still want that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1229.36,"endTime":1231.3999999999999,"body":"one more thing, whether or not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1229.36,"endTime":1231.3999999999999,"body":"it's gonna change my business."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1231.855,"endTime":1235.455,"body":"Versus, Hey, I'm seeing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1231.855,"endTime":1235.455,"body":"impact and value coming"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1235.455,"endTime":1237.615,"body":"outta the work being done,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1235.455,"endTime":1237.615,"body":"whatever that work is."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1237.945,"endTime":1241.215,"body":"You guys clearly understood"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1237.945,"endTime":1241.215,"body":"how to solve my problem"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1241.215,"endTime":1242.865,"body":"and I'm measuring it now."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1242.865,"endTime":1244.695,"body":"I'm feeling the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1242.865,"endTime":1244.695,"body":"benefits already."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1244.935,"endTime":1246.315,"body":"And I don't know if this is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1244.935,"endTime":1246.315,"body":"what you meant when you were"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1246.315,"endTime":1249.245,"body":"talking about tiered earlier,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1246.315,"endTime":1249.245,"body":"but there's like almost these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1249.245,"endTime":1250.865,"body":"stages of benefit too, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1250.865,"endTime":1253.925,"body":"Like not just doing one"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1250.865,"endTime":1253.925,"body":"big whole, yeah, this is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1253.925,"endTime":1257.345,"body":"our one mega product and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1253.925,"endTime":1257.345,"body":"probably it's gonna solve"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1257.345,"endTime":1259.085,"body":"your problem at the end, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1257.345,"endTime":1259.085,"body":"if not, we have your money."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1259.615,"endTime":1261.5049999999999,"body":"The, Hey, let's get you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1259.615,"endTime":1261.5049999999999,"body":"to a stage where you are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1261.5049999999999,"endTime":1264.085,"body":"getting value and you are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1261.5049999999999,"endTime":1264.085,"body":"experiencing the impact."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1264.415,"endTime":1266.125,"body":"And then let's go to that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1264.415,"endTime":1266.125,"body":"next thing, and then let's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1266.125,"endTime":1266.995,"body":"go to that next thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1267.475,"endTime":1269.565,"body":"And I've been hearing the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1267.475,"endTime":1269.565,"body":"word speed to value a lot"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1269.565,"endTime":1272.535,"body":"lately, but yeah, let's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1269.565,"endTime":1272.535,"body":"getting to that impact sooner."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1272.895,"endTime":1275.655,"body":"Not having a big sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1272.895,"endTime":1275.655,"body":"monolithic project or monolithic"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1275.655,"endTime":1278.865,"body":"offering, but let's get you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1275.655,"endTime":1278.865,"body":"to let's solve that problem."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1278.865,"endTime":1281.115,"body":"Let's put the bandage on the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1278.865,"endTime":1281.115,"body":"wound and then let's figure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1281.115,"endTime":1282.285,"body":"out like where to go next."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1282.6299999999999,"endTime":1284.04,"body":"You're gonna start"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1282.6299999999999,"endTime":1284.04,"body":"feeling better right away."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1284.34,"endTime":1284.49,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1284.52,"endTime":1286.23,"body":"There are so many great things"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1284.52,"endTime":1286.23,"body":"about what you said there."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1286.23,"endTime":1288.905,"body":"I want to touch on a few of"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1286.23,"endTime":1288.905,"body":"them and just build So one"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1288.905,"endTime":1291.635,"body":"thing, even before what you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1288.905,"endTime":1291.635,"body":"had just said, you started"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1291.635,"endTime":1292.895,"body":"talking about client focus."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1292.895,"endTime":1295.325,"body":"What are clients focused"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1292.895,"endTime":1295.325,"body":"on in more of a service"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1295.325,"endTime":1296.405,"body":"based type of model?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1296.405,"endTime":1297.785,"body":"They're focused on the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1296.405,"endTime":1297.785,"body":"service and when are they"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1297.785,"endTime":1298.745,"body":"getting that next thing."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1299.195,"endTime":1302.105,"body":"And so when we see agencies"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1299.195,"endTime":1302.105,"body":"try and shift away from"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1302.105,"endTime":1304.115,"body":"billable hours, one of the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1302.105,"endTime":1304.115,"body":"first places they go is"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1304.115,"endTime":1305.195,"body":"to price a deliverable."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1305.225,"endTime":1307.175,"body":"We'll stop pricing hours"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1305.225,"endTime":1307.175,"body":"and we'll use a fixed"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1307.175,"endTime":1308.105,"body":"fee for deliverable."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1308.5249999999999,"endTime":1309.455,"body":"And now we'll sell that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1309.455,"endTime":1311.795,"body":"But if the rest of the model's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1309.455,"endTime":1311.795,"body":"not in place, it's just"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1311.795,"endTime":1314.195,"body":"basically you're changing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1311.795,"endTime":1314.195,"body":"your billing methods, your"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1314.195,"endTime":1316.385,"body":"invoicing, your contract,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1314.195,"endTime":1316.385,"body":"but nothing else has changed."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1316.895,"endTime":1319.235,"body":"So one, you have all of these"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1316.895,"endTime":1319.235,"body":"still remaining internal"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1319.235,"endTime":1322.055,"body":"chaos and operational"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1319.235,"endTime":1322.055,"body":"challenges internally that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1322.055,"endTime":1323.195,"body":"we see in so many agencies."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1323.675,"endTime":1326.975,"body":"And two, there's not enough"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1323.675,"endTime":1326.975,"body":"proof to have a conversation"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1326.975,"endTime":1330.455,"body":"with procurement or any price"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1326.975,"endTime":1330.455,"body":"driven buyer that proves."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1330.8,"endTime":1333.26,"body":"You can solve this problem"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1330.8,"endTime":1333.26,"body":"better than other firms because"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1333.26,"endTime":1336.02,"body":"really as they ask questions"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1333.26,"endTime":1336.02,"body":"and dig deeper, you look"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1336.02,"endTime":1337.31,"body":"just like any other agency."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1337.31,"endTime":1339.32,"body":"So we do need to still"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1337.31,"endTime":1339.32,"body":"change that model."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1339.71,"endTime":1341.78,"body":"But in terms of where it"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1339.71,"endTime":1341.78,"body":"keeps clients focused,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1341.78,"endTime":1342.6499999999999,"body":"you're absolutely right."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1342.68,"endTime":1345.74,"body":"If you're selling a deliverable,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1342.68,"endTime":1345.74,"body":"then a client is focused on when"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1345.74,"endTime":1346.82,"body":"am I getting that deliverable?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1346.8799999999999,"endTime":1347.99,"body":"Is that deliverable done?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1347.99,"endTime":1349.7,"body":"Is it complete to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1347.99,"endTime":1349.7,"body":"what I was expecting?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1350.09,"endTime":1353.69,"body":"If you're selling a retainer"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1350.09,"endTime":1353.69,"body":"or agency of record type"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1353.69,"endTime":1356.03,"body":"relationships, which we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1353.69,"endTime":1356.03,"body":"don't see many of today,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1356.03,"endTime":1357.08,"body":"but they're still out there."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1357.36,"endTime":1359.16,"body":"Then what you're really"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1357.36,"endTime":1359.16,"body":"selling is access, or at"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1359.16,"endTime":1360.87,"body":"least that's where you're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1359.16,"endTime":1360.87,"body":"pointing client focus."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1361.3,"endTime":1364.18,"body":"If I have you as my agency"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1361.3,"endTime":1364.18,"body":"of record, I need to be able"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1364.18,"endTime":1366.8799999999999,"body":"to access you for, and it"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1364.18,"endTime":1366.8799999999999,"body":"does tie to hours of course,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1366.8799999999999,"endTime":1368.23,"body":"but it's on demand, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1368.29,"endTime":1370.24,"body":"And so that's what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1368.29,"endTime":1370.24,"body":"they're focused on."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1370.585,"endTime":1374.215,"body":"When you say we're selling"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1370.585,"endTime":1374.215,"body":"solutions that starts the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1374.215,"endTime":1377.365,"body":"client's focus and keeps"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1374.215,"endTime":1377.365,"body":"it maintained on a problem"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1377.365,"endTime":1378.565,"body":"that's going to be solved."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1378.595,"endTime":1380.665,"body":"And that's what everybody"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1378.595,"endTime":1380.665,"body":"should be focused on."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1380.665,"endTime":1381.865,"body":"'cause that's what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1380.665,"endTime":1381.865,"body":"they've always been"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1381.865,"endTime":1384.865,"body":"buying is the solution to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1381.865,"endTime":1384.865,"body":"their business problem."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1384.895,"endTime":1388.945,"body":"So that's why we see this"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1384.895,"endTime":1388.945,"body":"as the most effective ways"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1388.945,"endTime":1392.0049999999999,"body":"for agency to truly sell"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1388.945,"endTime":1392.0049999999999,"body":"and scale their value."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1392.0049999999999,"endTime":1394.305,"body":"Because what we're really"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1392.0049999999999,"endTime":1394.305,"body":"talking about is transformation"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1394.305,"endTime":1396.645,"body":"work for agencies and that's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1394.305,"endTime":1396.645,"body":"what they've always been doing."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1397.155,"endTime":1399.915,"body":"Getting clients from a current"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1397.155,"endTime":1399.915,"body":"state to a better future state,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1400.485,"endTime":1402.705,"body":"and what better way to do that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1400.485,"endTime":1402.705,"body":"than saying there's a problem"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1402.705,"endTime":1403.815,"body":"blocking you from getting there."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1404.145,"endTime":1405.135,"body":"We have that solution."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1405.135,"endTime":1405.825,"body":"That's what we sell."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1405.825,"endTime":1407.805,"body":"Here's our expertise and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1405.825,"endTime":1407.805,"body":"how we do it, and so on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1408.075,"endTime":1410.865,"body":"I like the sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1408.075,"endTime":1410.865,"body":"transformation theme because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1410.895,"endTime":1414.2549999999999,"body":"A, I think that is what a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1410.895,"endTime":1414.2549999999999,"body":"lot of projects are these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1414.2549999999999,"endTime":1415.935,"body":"days, arguably always, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1415.935,"endTime":1420.1,"body":"That we're trying to explore"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1415.935,"endTime":1420.1,"body":"a way to change something to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1420.1,"endTime":1423.28,"body":"either do business better or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1420.1,"endTime":1423.28,"body":"serve our customers better."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1423.47,"endTime":1424.955,"body":"There's some kind of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1423.47,"endTime":1424.955,"body":"transformation that takes place."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1425.6299999999999,"endTime":1428.8999999999999,"body":"But I also like this idea that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1425.6299999999999,"endTime":1428.8999999999999,"body":"like agencies themselves need"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1428.8999999999999,"endTime":1430.34,"body":"to undergo a transformation."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1431.06,"endTime":1433.49,"body":"They have to go through almost"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1431.06,"endTime":1433.49,"body":"their own process, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1433.67,"endTime":1435.29,"body":"They're telling their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1433.67,"endTime":1435.29,"body":"client, no, you gotta go."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1435.29,"endTime":1436.46,"body":"We gotta start with discovery."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1436.46,"endTime":1437.24,"body":"We have to do this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1437.24,"endTime":1439.3999999999999,"body":"That technical audit, we've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1437.24,"endTime":1439.3999999999999,"body":"gotta do these things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1439.3999999999999,"endTime":1440.51,"body":"This is our process."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1440.99,"endTime":1443.78,"body":"And then, that whole like eating"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1440.99,"endTime":1443.78,"body":"your own dog food thing, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1443.78,"endTime":1446.27,"body":"It's okay, but when it comes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1443.78,"endTime":1446.27,"body":"to our agency, we're just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1446.27,"endTime":1448.48,"body":"gonna try different things,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1446.27,"endTime":1448.48,"body":"oh, we're gonna respond to this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1448.48,"endTime":1451.18,"body":"RFP with this kind of value"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1448.48,"endTime":1451.18,"body":"prop and see how that goes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1451.18,"endTime":1452.77,"body":"We're gonna go to these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1451.18,"endTime":1452.77,"body":"networking events and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1452.77,"endTime":1453.61,"body":"drop off some business."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1453.61,"endTime":1455.54,"body":"And when there's a lead,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1453.61,"endTime":1455.54,"body":"we'll make this shoe fit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1456.26,"endTime":1458.33,"body":"I think that's like the current"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1456.26,"endTime":1458.33,"body":"state of the economy right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1458.33,"endTime":1461.06,"body":"now too, where like you said,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1458.33,"endTime":1461.06,"body":"there's not a lot of sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1461.06,"endTime":1462.62,"body":"these retainer models anymore."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1463.04,"endTime":1467.24,"body":"Cashflow is becoming an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1463.04,"endTime":1467.24,"body":"intensely challenging thing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1467.24,"endTime":1470.75,"body":"to manage and a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1467.24,"endTime":1470.75,"body":"clients that are walking in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1470.75,"endTime":1472.91,"body":"the door that probably aren't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1470.75,"endTime":1472.91,"body":"best fit clients, but they're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1472.91,"endTime":1476.03,"body":"the ones walking through the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1472.91,"endTime":1476.03,"body":"door are like, I only have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1476.1499999999999,"endTime":1480.8,"body":"$10,000 to do that $75,000"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1476.1499999999999,"endTime":1480.8,"body":"project you just proposed."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1481.1299999999999,"endTime":1481.91,"body":"Would you take the 10?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1481.91,"endTime":1483.8899999999999,"body":"And some agencies might have to."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1483.995,"endTime":1486.965,"body":"I'm not saying do that entire"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1483.995,"endTime":1486.965,"body":"scope for $10,000 instead of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1486.965,"endTime":1489.725,"body":"$75,000, but they're like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1486.965,"endTime":1489.725,"body":"okay, we need cash flow"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1489.725,"endTime":1493.055,"body":"to keep our people working"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1489.725,"endTime":1493.055,"body":"and having livelihoods"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1493.055,"endTime":1495.575,"body":"and we have to follow this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1493.055,"endTime":1495.575,"body":"race down to the bottom."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1495.635,"endTime":1498.125,"body":"But what I like hearing is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1495.635,"endTime":1498.125,"body":"that they probably do have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1498.125,"endTime":1502.055,"body":"a lot of superhero powers"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1498.125,"endTime":1502.055,"body":"in their category and in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1502.055,"endTime":1503.26,"body":"their service offering."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1504.2749999999999,"endTime":1506.975,"body":"They can lean into as long as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1504.2749999999999,"endTime":1506.975,"body":"they're sitting down, taking the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1506.975,"endTime":1510.395,"body":"time to reframe the value that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1506.975,"endTime":1510.395,"body":"they deliver and how they sell"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1510.395,"endTime":1511.7749999999999,"body":"that and how they promise it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1512.105,"endTime":1514.655,"body":"You said the word proof earlier,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1512.105,"endTime":1514.655,"body":"and I don't know if this is what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1514.655,"endTime":1517.955,"body":"you meant, but I was like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1514.655,"endTime":1517.955,"body":"how can you, after you've done"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1518.345,"endTime":1521.615,"body":"time, materials, or even just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1518.345,"endTime":1521.615,"body":"like fixed price, like services"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1521.615,"endTime":1526.085,"body":"engagements, how can you deliver"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1521.615,"endTime":1526.085,"body":"the proof that you can solve"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1526.085,"endTime":1528.43,"body":"the problem that you have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1526.085,"endTime":1528.43,"body":"solved the problem in the past?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1529.16,"endTime":1531.47,"body":"I go to like case studies,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1529.16,"endTime":1531.47,"body":"but I almost go to like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1531.47,"endTime":1532.55,"body":"measurement as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1532.55,"endTime":1534.68,"body":"And maybe we can get there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1532.55,"endTime":1534.68,"body":"like a little bit later too"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1534.92,"endTime":1538.52,"body":"in terms of like how do you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1534.92,"endTime":1538.52,"body":"become the agency that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1538.52,"endTime":1539.96,"body":"accountable for the impact?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1540.44,"endTime":1542.51,"body":"Whereas normally it's kinda"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1540.44,"endTime":1542.51,"body":"like job done, you kinda"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1542.51,"endTime":1545.06,"body":"walk away and go to the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1542.51,"endTime":1545.06,"body":"next client, next project."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1545.36,"endTime":1547.7,"body":"We don't know if it had"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1545.36,"endTime":1547.7,"body":"the impact and frankly"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1547.73,"endTime":1549.32,"body":"no one's really held our"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1547.73,"endTime":1549.32,"body":"feet to the fire there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1549.68,"endTime":1552.26,"body":"But I think that would be like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1549.68,"endTime":1552.26,"body":"the sort of the other bit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1552.71,"endTime":1554.84,"body":"But I wondered if first"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1552.71,"endTime":1554.84,"body":"we can go into the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1554.84,"endTime":1556.58,"body":"transformation bit because."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1556.985,"endTime":1560.0149999999999,"body":"There's always friction, an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1556.985,"endTime":1560.0149999999999,"body":"agency of any size, arguably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1560.0149999999999,"endTime":1562.5049999999999,"body":"an organization of any size"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1560.0149999999999,"endTime":1562.5049999999999,"body":"to get everyone rallied"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1562.5049999999999,"endTime":1563.975,"body":"around that kind of change."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1564.365,"endTime":1566.915,"body":"And I know a lot of agencies,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1564.365,"endTime":1566.915,"body":"like you've probably worked"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1566.915,"endTime":1569.625,"body":"with agencies who, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1566.915,"endTime":1569.625,"body":"about the epiphany point, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1569.985,"endTime":1571.485,"body":"In other words, there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1569.985,"endTime":1571.485,"body":"is friction and it was"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1571.485,"endTime":1572.565,"body":"hard to get up the hill."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1572.565,"endTime":1573.915,"body":"And then you get to this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1572.565,"endTime":1573.915,"body":"epiphany point, you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1573.915,"endTime":1574.665,"body":"like, I get it now."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1574.845,"endTime":1576.7649999999999,"body":"And then it's all like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1574.845,"endTime":1576.7649999999999,"body":"smooth sailing from there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1577.215,"endTime":1580.565,"body":"But what is some of the friction"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1577.215,"endTime":1580.565,"body":"that you run into with agencies?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1581.48,"endTime":1583.46,"body":"Are there different like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1581.48,"endTime":1583.46,"body":"levels of transformation?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1583.51,"endTime":1586.57,"body":"Are there maybe four stages of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1583.51,"endTime":1586.57,"body":"transforming away from billable"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1586.57,"endTime":1590.1399999999999,"body":"hours, a little four step"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1586.57,"endTime":1590.1399999999999,"body":"program that kind of makes it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1590.1399999999999,"endTime":1593.6499999999999,"body":"easier for agencies to digest"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1590.1399999999999,"endTime":1593.6499999999999,"body":"while also still doing business?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1594.01,"endTime":1594.82,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1594.01,"endTime":1594.82,"body":"certainly there are"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1594.82,"endTime":1596.83,"body":"friction points we see."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1596.86,"endTime":1598.78,"body":"Some of the most common ones,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1596.86,"endTime":1598.78,"body":"and I'll just touch on 'em"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1598.78,"endTime":1602.3799999999999,"body":"quickly, is that leadership"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1598.78,"endTime":1602.3799999999999,"body":"believes in value based or"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1602.3799999999999,"endTime":1605.5,"body":"value aligned pricing, but"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1602.3799999999999,"endTime":1605.5,"body":"yet client facing teams are"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1605.5,"endTime":1607.535,"body":"still defaulting to time"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1605.5,"endTime":1607.535,"body":"estimates or scope changes."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1608.26,"endTime":1611.83,"body":"Or if scopes are still built"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1608.26,"endTime":1611.83,"body":"around highly customized"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1611.83,"endTime":1614.66,"body":"deliverables, and most scopes"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1611.83,"endTime":1614.66,"body":"in the firm are custom."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1614.97,"endTime":1617.22,"body":"That makes scalability"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1614.97,"endTime":1617.22,"body":"almost impossible, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1617.22,"endTime":1618.96,"body":"So there's not really"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1617.22,"endTime":1618.96,"body":"repeatable structure"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1618.96,"endTime":1619.8,"body":"there for that to happen."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1620.25,"endTime":1623.37,"body":"Or if sales and account teams"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1620.25,"endTime":1623.37,"body":"are still speaking the language"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1623.37,"endTime":1627.54,"body":"of hours and cost and effort and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1623.37,"endTime":1627.54,"body":"service, not value or expertise,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1627.57,"endTime":1630.3799999999999,"body":"then things will fall apart"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1627.57,"endTime":1630.3799999999999,"body":"when you have that client you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1630.3799999999999,"endTime":1633.6499999999999,"body":"mentioned that says, I only have"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1630.3799999999999,"endTime":1633.6499999999999,"body":"10,000 for that $40,000 project."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1634.04,"endTime":1636.08,"body":"What we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1634.04,"endTime":1636.08,"body":"is confidence going into a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1636.08,"endTime":1639.05,"body":"negotiation situation and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1636.08,"endTime":1639.05,"body":"believing that what you're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1639.05,"endTime":1642.11,"body":"selling is actually worth that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1639.05,"endTime":1642.11,"body":"40,000 to begin with and not"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1642.11,"endTime":1645.17,"body":"budging or finding another"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1642.11,"endTime":1645.17,"body":"way to solve the problem."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1645.17,"endTime":1648.35,"body":"But for a $10,000 budget,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1645.17,"endTime":1648.35,"body":"because you're the expert, you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1648.35,"endTime":1651.29,"body":"should be able to do that to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1648.35,"endTime":1651.29,"body":"some level, or at least that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1651.29,"endTime":1654.62,"body":"person needs to respect your"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1651.29,"endTime":1654.62,"body":"expertise and find that money"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1654.62,"endTime":1656.87,"body":"if they wanna work with you to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1654.62,"endTime":1656.87,"body":"solve that problem otherwise."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1657.345,"endTime":1658.695,"body":"It's always a business"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1657.345,"endTime":1658.695,"body":"decision, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1658.695,"endTime":1661.575,"body":"We never want to turn away"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1658.695,"endTime":1661.575,"body":"money, but at sometimes it's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1661.575,"endTime":1662.805,"body":"also the opportunity cost."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1662.805,"endTime":1665.805,"body":"If you accept one that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1662.805,"endTime":1665.805,"body":"introduces chaos and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1665.805,"endTime":1667.125,"body":"customization again, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1667.125,"endTime":1670.5149999999999,"body":"And then you are starting"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1667.125,"endTime":1670.5149999999999,"body":"to burn out people when you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1670.5149999999999,"endTime":1673.035,"body":"can have that next great"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1670.5149999999999,"endTime":1673.035,"body":"opportunity walking in the door."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1673.035,"endTime":1676.305,"body":"And so what we see is when all"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1673.035,"endTime":1676.305,"body":"the pieces are in place, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1676.305,"endTime":1677.325,"body":"Your positioning is clear."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1677.325,"endTime":1679.455,"body":"You know who you're for and who"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1677.325,"endTime":1679.455,"body":"you're not, for what you do and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1679.455,"endTime":1680.835,"body":"what you don't do, all of that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1680.835,"endTime":1683.055,"body":"You have your prototype"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1680.835,"endTime":1683.055,"body":"solutions, you have all"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1683.055,"endTime":1683.7749999999999,"body":"of the other pieces."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1684.225,"endTime":1685.305,"body":"And you're priced appropriately."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1685.345,"endTime":1687.685,"body":"You attract the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1685.345,"endTime":1687.685,"body":"right clients, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1687.685,"endTime":1690.925,"body":"You attract more of those"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1687.685,"endTime":1690.925,"body":"right clients or those clients"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1690.925,"endTime":1692.875,"body":"that come to you that may"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1690.925,"endTime":1692.875,"body":"not be the perfect client."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1692.875,"endTime":1695.545,"body":"They start to see it your"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1692.875,"endTime":1695.545,"body":"way, and it's a lot easier"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1695.545,"endTime":1698.0049999999999,"body":"to navigate them to the right"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1695.545,"endTime":1698.0049999999999,"body":"way to approach this and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1698.0049999999999,"endTime":1698.935,"body":"at the right price point."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1699.295,"endTime":1702.055,"body":"And I've heard many firms say"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1699.295,"endTime":1702.055,"body":"they somehow magically find"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1702.055,"endTime":1704.605,"body":"the dollars to do it the right"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1702.055,"endTime":1704.605,"body":"way as after they have this"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1704.605,"endTime":1705.865,"body":"conversation with their clients."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1706.375,"endTime":1708.475,"body":"So all that aside, let's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1706.375,"endTime":1708.475,"body":"talk about the shift that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1708.475,"endTime":1709.465,"body":"has to happen internally."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1709.84,"endTime":1712.84,"body":"So there are four shifts"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1709.84,"endTime":1712.84,"body":"that we talk about a lot."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1712.84,"endTime":1715.87,"body":"And so the first is the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1712.84,"endTime":1715.87,"body":"philosophical shift."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1716.32,"endTime":1718.03,"body":"And so it's really"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1716.32,"endTime":1718.03,"body":"about mindset."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1718.12,"endTime":1721.52,"body":"And some of the tensions I"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1718.12,"endTime":1721.52,"body":"described before are based on"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1721.52,"endTime":1722.81,"body":"not having that right mindset."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1722.81,"endTime":1726.3,"body":"And so we need to redefine and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1722.81,"endTime":1726.3,"body":"we've touched on this, what your"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1726.3,"endTime":1729.295,"body":"agency actually sells, or more"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1726.3,"endTime":1729.295,"body":"accurately what your clients"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1729.3899999999999,"endTime":1730.8,"body":"are really buying from you."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1731.19,"endTime":1732.99,"body":"I think I said some of"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1731.19,"endTime":1732.99,"body":"this, that they're not"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1732.99,"endTime":1735.66,"body":"buying strategy in media"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1732.99,"endTime":1735.66,"body":"or creative reproduction"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1735.99,"endTime":1737.46,"body":"and they never were."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1737.46,"endTime":1741.1499999999999,"body":"Despite what we see on so many"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1737.46,"endTime":1741.1499999999999,"body":"agency websites for years, what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1741.1499999999999,"endTime":1743.16,"body":"clients are actually buying"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1741.1499999999999,"endTime":1743.16,"body":"again, is that solution to a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1743.16,"endTime":1746.16,"body":"problem or a desired outcome,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1743.16,"endTime":1746.16,"body":"A new capability that you're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1746.16,"endTime":1749.58,"body":"gonna build for them or give"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1746.16,"endTime":1749.58,"body":"them the knowledge to gain."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1749.58,"endTime":1752.22,"body":"So it's really ultimately"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1749.58,"endTime":1752.22,"body":"tying to the positioning"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1752.22,"endTime":1754.59,"body":"piece and it's taking that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1752.22,"endTime":1754.59,"body":"stand and saying, this is,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1754.95,"endTime":1757.17,"body":"these are the problems we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1754.95,"endTime":1757.17,"body":"are uniquely qualified to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1757.17,"endTime":1758.49,"body":"solve based on our strengths."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1758.82,"endTime":1760.35,"body":"This is who we are as an agency."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1760.785,"endTime":1763.125,"body":"So that's the first shift"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1760.785,"endTime":1763.125,"body":"and it's really foundational"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1763.125,"endTime":1763.905,"body":"to everything else."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1763.905,"endTime":1766.095,"body":"But does that line up with"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1763.905,"endTime":1766.095,"body":"some of the challenges"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1766.095,"endTime":1767.925,"body":"in the industry when"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1766.095,"endTime":1767.925,"body":"that's not in place?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1768.075,"endTime":1768.7649999999999,"body":"Oh, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1768.7649999999999,"endTime":1771.045,"body":"In fact, like I see that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1768.7649999999999,"endTime":1771.045,"body":"as being like where the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1771.045,"endTime":1773.415,"body":"friction is because of that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1773.805,"endTime":1776.055,"body":"Like I think that knowing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1773.805,"endTime":1776.055,"body":"who we're for and knowing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1776.055,"endTime":1778.5149999999999,"body":"who we're not for is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1776.055,"endTime":1778.5149999999999,"body":"like super sound advice."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1779.085,"endTime":1781.425,"body":"Then that temptation of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1779.085,"endTime":1781.425,"body":"there's money on the table"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1781.425,"endTime":1784.095,"body":"is like always a bit of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1781.425,"endTime":1784.095,"body":"that, like retrograde."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1784.305,"endTime":1786.5249999999999,"body":"It's that thing that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1784.305,"endTime":1786.5249999999999,"body":"always gonna pull folks back."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1786.795,"endTime":1789.435,"body":"There's almost like a discipline"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1786.795,"endTime":1789.435,"body":"to it, but I like what you said"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1789.435,"endTime":1792.675,"body":"about confidence in negotiation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1789.435,"endTime":1792.675,"body":"because I think that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1792.675,"endTime":1795.485,"body":"ultimately what it comes down"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1792.675,"endTime":1795.485,"body":"to, where it's are you confident"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1795.485,"endTime":1799.535,"body":"enough to say that, listen,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1795.485,"endTime":1799.535,"body":"I can turn this one away."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1799.535,"endTime":1800.735,"body":"This is gonna cost us money."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1800.735,"endTime":1803.075,"body":"It's like an opportunity"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1800.735,"endTime":1803.075,"body":"cost, and it'll also, this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1803.075,"endTime":1804.155,"body":"is not our best fit client."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1804.545,"endTime":1807.395,"body":"I just need to have confidence"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1804.545,"endTime":1807.395,"body":"in the fact that how we've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1807.395,"endTime":1809.825,"body":"positioned ourselves, we've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1807.395,"endTime":1809.825,"body":"made the right decisions, that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1809.975,"endTime":1813.785,"body":"there is a better fit client"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1809.975,"endTime":1813.785,"body":"coming our way that we can chase"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1813.785,"endTime":1817.19,"body":"down and frankly not wait for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1813.785,"endTime":1817.19,"body":"people to walk through the door."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1817.565,"endTime":1820.805,"body":"Go you know who to go after"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1817.565,"endTime":1820.805,"body":"and it's going to be, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1820.805,"endTime":1821.825,"body":"was gonna say lucrative."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1821.825,"endTime":1823.5249999999999,"body":"Lucrative isn't really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1821.825,"endTime":1823.5249999999999,"body":"the word, but Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1823.5249999999999,"endTime":1825.59,"body":"Like a good, healthy client"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1823.5249999999999,"endTime":1825.59,"body":"relationship for your agency."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1826.405,"endTime":1828.055,"body":"That's a really interesting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1826.405,"endTime":1828.055,"body":"one, but that's where I see"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1828.055,"endTime":1828.805,"body":"a lot of people struggle."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1828.835,"endTime":1831.565,"body":"'cause they're like, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1828.835,"endTime":1831.565,"body":"this person has $10,000."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1831.565,"endTime":1832.855,"body":"And you're like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1831.565,"endTime":1832.855,"body":"but it's gonna cost you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1832.855,"endTime":1834.835,"body":"$40,000 to get the job done."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1834.885,"endTime":1838.405,"body":"It's a very hard shift to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1834.885,"endTime":1838.405,"body":"get into that discipline."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1838.795,"endTime":1839.935,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1838.795,"endTime":1839.935,"body":"that confidence builds"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1839.935,"endTime":1840.745,"body":"over time, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1840.7749999999999,"endTime":1843.475,"body":"Even right after a positioning"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1840.7749999999999,"endTime":1843.475,"body":"engagement with an agency."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1843.475,"endTime":1846.2649999999999,"body":"It's not a, an instant flip"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1843.475,"endTime":1846.2649999999999,"body":"of the switch where all of a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1846.2649999999999,"endTime":1848.2749999999999,"body":"sudden you have your best fit"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1846.2649999999999,"endTime":1848.2749999999999,"body":"clients knocking at your door."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1848.2749999999999,"endTime":1849.115,"body":"And so it takes time."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1849.115,"endTime":1851.575,"body":"You have to build the right"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1849.115,"endTime":1851.575,"body":"collateral and the momentum"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1851.575,"endTime":1852.685,"body":"to start to attract them."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1852.685,"endTime":1855.295,"body":"And sure, so you still have"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1852.685,"endTime":1855.295,"body":"other clients knocking and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1855.295,"endTime":1858.445,"body":"you just decide when is it the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1855.295,"endTime":1858.445,"body":"right time to start saying no to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1858.445,"endTime":1859.615,"body":"clients that aren't a good fit?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1859.615,"endTime":1862.195,"body":"And you'll know because you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1859.615,"endTime":1862.195,"body":"have enough business from"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1862.195,"endTime":1863.215,"body":"your right fit clients."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1863.545,"endTime":1866.305,"body":"And you become more comfortable"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1863.545,"endTime":1866.305,"body":"and confident in that way."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1866.355,"endTime":1867.285,"body":"So it does take time."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1867.285,"endTime":1869.625,"body":"And we're also not saying,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1867.285,"endTime":1869.625,"body":"you fire the bad clients"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1869.625,"endTime":1870.5249999999999,"body":"that aren't a good fit."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1870.5249999999999,"endTime":1871.695,"body":"You still work with them."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1871.695,"endTime":1874.065,"body":"You maintain that business"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1871.695,"endTime":1874.065,"body":"until they decide to leave you."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1874.095,"endTime":1875.295,"body":"'cause eventually"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1874.095,"endTime":1875.295,"body":"they will, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1875.295,"endTime":1876.405,"body":"That it's not"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1875.295,"endTime":1876.405,"body":"gonna last forever."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1876.735,"endTime":1879.075,"body":"All the while you're building"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1876.735,"endTime":1879.075,"body":"up your pipeline of your best"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1879.075,"endTime":1882.135,"body":"fit clients and eventually"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1879.075,"endTime":1882.135,"body":"that shift happens naturally,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1882.135,"endTime":1883.785,"body":"but you can move into."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1884.205,"endTime":1886.485,"body":"The next part of the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1884.205,"endTime":1886.485,"body":"transformation, which helps"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1886.485,"endTime":1888.075,"body":"put you in an even better spot."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1888.075,"endTime":1889.815,"body":"And so you want me to,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1888.075,"endTime":1889.815,"body":"I can dive into that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1889.845,"endTime":1890.475,"body":"Yeah, let's go."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1890.805,"endTime":1893.5049999999999,"body":"So that's really, it's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1890.805,"endTime":1893.5049999999999,"body":"about a strategic shift"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1893.5049999999999,"endTime":1896.115,"body":"and in other words, how"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1893.5049999999999,"endTime":1896.115,"body":"you package your offerings."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1896.535,"endTime":1898.7549999999999,"body":"I've called it productizing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1896.535,"endTime":1898.7549999999999,"body":"value, I think earlier."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1898.7549999999999,"endTime":1902.145,"body":"And so as an agency that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1898.7549999999999,"endTime":1902.145,"body":"went through this recently"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1902.145,"endTime":1905.305,"body":"said, you helped us use"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1902.145,"endTime":1905.305,"body":"productization as a strategy"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1905.635,"endTime":1908.245,"body":"when we had been thinking"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1905.635,"endTime":1908.245,"body":"about it all along as a tactic."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1908.815,"endTime":1910.315,"body":"And that goes to the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1908.815,"endTime":1910.315,"body":"point earlier about"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1910.375,"endTime":1912.925,"body":"productizing services,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1910.375,"endTime":1912.925,"body":"not productizing value."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1912.925,"endTime":1914.905,"body":"And so let me unpack"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1912.925,"endTime":1914.905,"body":"that a bit because this"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1914.905,"endTime":1918.415,"body":"is exactly what we do is"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1914.905,"endTime":1918.415,"body":"productization as a strategy."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1918.865,"endTime":1921.835,"body":"It's an advantage that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1918.865,"endTime":1921.835,"body":"you gain when you start to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1921.835,"endTime":1924.7749999999999,"body":"structure your unique value"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1921.835,"endTime":1924.7749999999999,"body":"as these defined solutions."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1924.7749999999999,"endTime":1926.995,"body":"You're building up your"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1924.7749999999999,"endTime":1926.995,"body":"credibility as the expert"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1926.995,"endTime":1930.115,"body":"in this defined space, and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1926.995,"endTime":1930.115,"body":"you design those solutions"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1930.475,"endTime":1933.655,"body":"to move clients across an"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1930.475,"endTime":1933.655,"body":"ecosystem of offerings."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1934.075,"endTime":1936.655,"body":"Not just through one-off"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1934.075,"endTime":1936.655,"body":"projects, which is one of the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1936.655,"endTime":1939.085,"body":"challenges you were describing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1936.655,"endTime":1939.085,"body":"before, in fact, even the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1939.085,"endTime":1941.035,"body":"$10,000 project example, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1941.035,"endTime":1944.065,"body":"That's a one-off project, not"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1941.035,"endTime":1944.065,"body":"a solution to the overarching"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1944.065,"endTime":1946.735,"body":"problem, whatever that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1944.065,"endTime":1946.735,"body":"may be in this big example"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1946.735,"endTime":1947.965,"body":"we've been talking about."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1947.965,"endTime":1951.535,"body":"But the point is, this is how"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1947.965,"endTime":1951.535,"body":"we create revenue continuity,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1951.535,"endTime":1954.475,"body":"even inside a project-based"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1951.535,"endTime":1954.475,"body":"model, which is how many"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1954.475,"endTime":1955.675,"body":"firms are operating today."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1955.675,"endTime":1959.125,"body":"Because what you're doing when"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1955.675,"endTime":1959.125,"body":"you are so focused on a, on"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1959.125,"endTime":1961.615,"body":"your right fit audience and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1959.125,"endTime":1961.615,"body":"the problems they need solved."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1962.165,"endTime":1965.195,"body":"Then you can design solutions"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1962.165,"endTime":1965.195,"body":"for the first problem."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1965.195,"endTime":1968.105,"body":"They're gonna experience leading"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1965.195,"endTime":1968.105,"body":"to the second one that you know"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1968.105,"endTime":1971.435,"body":"they're gonna hit, that you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1968.105,"endTime":1971.435,"body":"already have a solution to solve"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1971.435,"endTime":1973.685,"body":"that for them before they even"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1971.435,"endTime":1973.685,"body":"know they're gonna need it."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1974.345,"endTime":1977.975,"body":"And you create this ecosystem"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1974.345,"endTime":1977.975,"body":"of these solutions for the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1977.975,"endTime":1980.955,"body":"related sets of problems"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1977.975,"endTime":1980.955,"body":"that these clients have."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1981.77,"endTime":1983.6299999999999,"body":"Now you're ready to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1981.77,"endTime":1983.6299999999999,"body":"have that conversation."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1983.6299999999999,"endTime":1985.97,"body":"The first conversation, you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1983.6299999999999,"endTime":1985.97,"body":"can show them the ecosystem,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1985.97,"endTime":1988.22,"body":"and this is the place that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1985.97,"endTime":1988.22,"body":"you play as the expert."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1988.22,"endTime":1990.5,"body":"You already know where they're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1988.22,"endTime":1990.5,"body":"going to go on their journey,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1990.5,"endTime":1992.84,"body":"and you have solutions"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1990.5,"endTime":1992.84,"body":"for all of it, and you're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1992.84,"endTime":1995.96,"body":"quickly becoming a strategic"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1992.84,"endTime":1995.96,"body":"partner, a strategic ally"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1995.96,"endTime":1998.33,"body":"for them, and that there's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1995.96,"endTime":1998.33,"body":"a lot of value in that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1998.33,"endTime":2000.715,"body":"And so what you do is you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":1998.33,"endTime":2000.715,"body":"start to grow your overall"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2000.715,"endTime":2003.37,"body":"client lifetime value with"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2000.715,"endTime":2003.37,"body":"these clients because you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2003.37,"endTime":2005.74,"body":"have one solution leading"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2003.37,"endTime":2005.74,"body":"to the next and to the next."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2006.01,"endTime":2008.3799999999999,"body":"All the while, you're also"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2006.01,"endTime":2008.3799999999999,"body":"differentiating your agency from"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2008.3799999999999,"endTime":2009.61,"body":"the others that don't do this."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2010.0,"endTime":2011.86,"body":"In a way that's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2010.0,"endTime":2011.86,"body":"highly defensible."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2012.43,"endTime":2015.43,"body":"And so when the solutions"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2012.43,"endTime":2015.43,"body":"are also built on that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2015.43,"endTime":2019.06,"body":"positioning, now you can also"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2015.43,"endTime":2019.06,"body":"price higher for these as well."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2019.06,"endTime":2021.699,"body":"And less pushback, very"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2019.06,"endTime":2021.699,"body":"different conversation to have."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2022.21,"endTime":2023.379,"body":"So that's a strategic shift."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2023.83,"endTime":2024.94,"body":"There's two other shifts."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2024.94,"endTime":2027.04,"body":"I'll be a little quicker I"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2024.94,"endTime":2027.04,"body":"think on these, but certainly"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2027.04,"endTime":2030.07,"body":"one is operational because"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2027.04,"endTime":2030.07,"body":"now how do we deliver all this"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2030.07,"endTime":2031.115,"body":"value we've been talking about?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2031.69,"endTime":2035.02,"body":"And so what we need to do"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2031.69,"endTime":2035.02,"body":"is train teams to speak to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2035.02,"endTime":2037.87,"body":"and sell this value, to have"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2035.02,"endTime":2037.87,"body":"that confidence, as you said."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2037.87,"endTime":2038.6789999999999,"body":"But we also."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2038.754,"endTime":2042.114,"body":"We need to figure out how do we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2038.754,"endTime":2042.114,"body":"create leaner team structures?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2042.114,"endTime":2043.944,"body":"We need to move away"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2042.114,"endTime":2043.944,"body":"from bloated teams that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2043.944,"endTime":2044.934,"body":"we've seen in agencies."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2044.934,"endTime":2047.244,"body":"You get in a room, a meeting"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2044.934,"endTime":2047.244,"body":"for a project, you have"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2047.244,"endTime":2049.974,"body":"20 or more people in the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2047.244,"endTime":2049.974,"body":"room, five or so don't even"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2049.974,"endTime":2052.734,"body":"know why they're there, and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2049.974,"endTime":2052.734,"body":"everyone's billing by the hour."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2052.974,"endTime":2056.274,"body":"And so what we need to move"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2052.974,"endTime":2056.274,"body":"towards is lean, creative"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2056.274,"endTime":2059.904,"body":"product teams, is how I refer"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2056.274,"endTime":2059.904,"body":"to them, and leveraging agile"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2059.964,"endTime":2062.664,"body":"workflows and repeatable"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2059.964,"endTime":2062.664,"body":"ways of working, built on the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2062.664,"endTime":2063.864,"body":"frameworks from the solutions."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2064.344,"endTime":2067.3140000000003,"body":"And because your offerings"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2064.344,"endTime":2067.3140000000003,"body":"are now so well structured."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2067.614,"endTime":2071.0350000000003,"body":"You can also start to apply"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2067.614,"endTime":2071.0350000000003,"body":"AI and automation in the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2071.0350000000003,"endTime":2073.7940000000003,"body":"right places because you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2071.0350000000003,"endTime":2073.7940000000003,"body":"have this repeatability,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2074.3340000000003,"endTime":2077.0640000000003,"body":"and we're not talking about"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2074.3340000000003,"endTime":2077.0640000000003,"body":"cookie cutter work product."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2077.0640000000003,"endTime":2080.7850000000003,"body":"We're talking about repeatable,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2077.0640000000003,"endTime":2080.7850000000003,"body":"underlying processes and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2080.7850000000003,"endTime":2085.2850000000003,"body":"frameworks that help you create"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2080.7850000000003,"endTime":2085.2850000000003,"body":"better work to carve out the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2085.2850000000003,"endTime":2088.155,"body":"space and time for you to have"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2085.2850000000003,"endTime":2088.155,"body":"the all the time you needed"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2088.155,"endTime":2090.5550000000003,"body":"for strategic thinking or"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2088.155,"endTime":2090.5550000000003,"body":"for production or creative."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2091.125,"endTime":2092.925,"body":"Because you can't really"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2091.125,"endTime":2092.925,"body":"automate if there's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2092.925,"endTime":2094.215,"body":"still operational chaos."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2094.215,"endTime":2095.1150000000002,"body":"How do you automate that?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2095.1150000000002,"endTime":2097.155,"body":"How do you apply AI"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2095.1150000000002,"endTime":2097.155,"body":"in a repeatable way?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2097.5150000000003,"endTime":2100.6650000000004,"body":"And we see that still with a lot"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2097.5150000000003,"endTime":2100.6650000000004,"body":"of firms, so we need to do that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2101.145,"endTime":2103.3050000000003,"body":"And then finally, how"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2101.145,"endTime":2103.3050000000003,"body":"do we measure our value?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2103.6650000000004,"endTime":2106.5750000000003,"body":"I know you wanted to talk"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2103.6650000000004,"endTime":2106.5750000000003,"body":"about this and actually"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2106.5750000000003,"endTime":2109.005,"body":"there's a couple dimensions"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2106.5750000000003,"endTime":2109.005,"body":"to this, but I'll start here."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2109.005,"endTime":2111.945,"body":"Where we need to first redefine"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2109.005,"endTime":2111.945,"body":"what success looks like."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2112.275,"endTime":2114.675,"body":"So how do you measure"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2112.275,"endTime":2114.675,"body":"performance if we're not looking"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2114.675,"endTime":2116.2050000000004,"body":"at billable hours, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2116.2050000000004,"endTime":2118.215,"body":"We're moving away from a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2116.2050000000004,"endTime":2118.215,"body":"culture of utilization."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2118.9500000000003,"endTime":2121.2000000000003,"body":"To a more of a culture"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2118.9500000000003,"endTime":2121.2000000000003,"body":"of accountability."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2121.2000000000003,"endTime":2123.57,"body":"Have we delivered the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2121.2000000000003,"endTime":2123.57,"body":"value that we said?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2124.02,"endTime":2126.7200000000003,"body":"And so the results, when we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2124.02,"endTime":2126.7200000000003,"body":"know we're doing it right, when"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2126.7200000000003,"endTime":2130.8,"body":"the model's working, we see the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2126.7200000000003,"endTime":2130.8,"body":"adjusted gross income per FTE"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2130.8,"endTime":2132.8100000000004,"body":"of a firm dramatically increase."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2133.1400000000003,"endTime":2136.05,"body":"We look at the margin per"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2133.1400000000003,"endTime":2136.05,"body":"solution that you're offering."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2136.0800000000004,"endTime":2137.3700000000003,"body":"'cause these are"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2136.0800000000004,"endTime":2137.3700000000003,"body":"repeatable solutions."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2137.3700000000003,"endTime":2137.9700000000003,"body":"You can do that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2137.9700000000003,"endTime":2140.6400000000003,"body":"There's not custom engagements"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2137.9700000000003,"endTime":2140.6400000000003,"body":"to the same degree as before."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2141.255,"endTime":2143.655,"body":"Or you look at margin per"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2141.255,"endTime":2143.655,"body":"team, because the creative"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2143.655,"endTime":2146.355,"body":"product teams I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2143.655,"endTime":2146.355,"body":"are typically fixed teams."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2146.355,"endTime":2149.1150000000002,"body":"They stay together to deliver"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2146.355,"endTime":2149.1150000000002,"body":"a related set of solutions."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2149.625,"endTime":2151.3050000000003,"body":"We look at client"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2149.625,"endTime":2151.3050000000003,"body":"lifetime value."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2151.3650000000002,"endTime":2154.3650000000002,"body":"We look at how long it takes"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2151.3650000000002,"endTime":2154.3650000000002,"body":"to close deals, because"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2154.3650000000002,"endTime":2155.565,"body":"deals tend to close faster."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2155.565,"endTime":2158.235,"body":"With this model, we look at"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2155.565,"endTime":2158.235,"body":"percentage of recurring revenue"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2158.235,"endTime":2159.3450000000003,"body":"that you're able to carve out."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2159.675,"endTime":2161.3250000000003,"body":"Most firms, they start at zero."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2161.3250000000003,"endTime":2163.7850000000003,"body":"When we work together and we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2161.3250000000003,"endTime":2163.7850000000003,"body":"start to build up to a greater"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2163.7850000000003,"endTime":2167.045,"body":"percentage, we're aiming for at"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2163.7850000000003,"endTime":2167.045,"body":"least 30% as the low goal there."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2167.045,"endTime":2167.525,"body":"And then."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2167.885,"endTime":2170.554,"body":"Most importantly though, is"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2167.885,"endTime":2170.554,"body":"client outcomes achieved?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2171.005,"endTime":2172.954,"body":"Did we deliver what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2171.005,"endTime":2172.954,"body":"we said we would?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2172.954,"endTime":2176.3450000000003,"body":"By the time that we said,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2172.954,"endTime":2176.3450000000003,"body":"did we solve the problem?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2176.3450000000003,"endTime":2178.715,"body":"Did we hit a meaningful"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2176.3450000000003,"endTime":2178.715,"body":"business goal?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2178.895,"endTime":2180.905,"body":"Did we leave them"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2178.895,"endTime":2180.905,"body":"with a new capability?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2180.905,"endTime":2183.155,"body":"And so that's how we know when"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2180.905,"endTime":2183.155,"body":"the model's working, 'cause"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2183.155,"endTime":2186.4840000000004,"body":"you're measuring value and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2183.155,"endTime":2186.4840000000004,"body":"you see that value increasing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2186.4840000000004,"endTime":2187.5040000000004,"body":"in all the areas I mentioned."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2187.88,"endTime":2190.82,"body":"Requires some access"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2187.88,"endTime":2190.82,"body":"to their side of measurement"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2190.82,"endTime":2192.23,"body":"as well, like the client side."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2192.57,"endTime":2194.5190000000002,"body":"So a lot of"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2192.57,"endTime":2194.5190000000002,"body":"the metrics that I shared"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2194.5190000000002,"endTime":2196.409,"body":"are more agency performing,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2194.5190000000002,"endTime":2196.409,"body":"how do we measure our"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2196.409,"endTime":2197.2490000000003,"body":"agency's performance?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2197.2490000000003,"endTime":2198.299,"body":"But you're absolutely right."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2198.299,"endTime":2199.409,"body":"For the latter part, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2199.409,"endTime":2201.719,"body":"For the outcomes we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2199.409,"endTime":2201.719,"body":"deliver those, yes."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2201.7490000000003,"endTime":2203.2490000000003,"body":"But that's not always"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2201.7490000000003,"endTime":2203.2490000000003,"body":"available to you."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2203.699,"endTime":2205.799,"body":"That goes to value-based"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2203.699,"endTime":2205.799,"body":"pricing and why that's a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2205.799,"endTime":2206.909,"body":"challenge sometimes, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2206.9390000000003,"endTime":2209.969,"body":"Do we know how much value"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2206.9390000000003,"endTime":2209.969,"body":"we're actually creating for"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2209.969,"endTime":2212.1290000000004,"body":"the client, or do we have"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2209.969,"endTime":2212.1290000000004,"body":"access to their metrics?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2212.579,"endTime":2214.6490000000003,"body":"Do the clients even have"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2212.579,"endTime":2214.6490000000003,"body":"the right tools in place?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2215.054,"endTime":2216.5240000000003,"body":"Are they allowed to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2215.054,"endTime":2216.5240000000003,"body":"share that with us?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2216.5240000000003,"endTime":2218.384,"body":"So there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2216.5240000000003,"endTime":2218.384,"body":"moving parts on that side."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2218.384,"endTime":2220.844,"body":"We don't always have access"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2218.384,"endTime":2220.844,"body":"to that information, and we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2220.844,"endTime":2222.434,"body":"don't always have the right"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2220.844,"endTime":2222.434,"body":"people in the room to make"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2222.434,"endTime":2224.684,"body":"the decisions, to give us"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2222.434,"endTime":2224.684,"body":"access to that information."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2224.684,"endTime":2226.094,"body":"So again, a lot of challenges."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2226.094,"endTime":2230.5040000000004,"body":"So what we see in and advise"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2226.094,"endTime":2230.5040000000004,"body":"is rather than, so two ways"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2230.5040000000004,"endTime":2231.9440000000004,"body":"to create value-based pricing."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2231.974,"endTime":2237.494,"body":"One is we co-create or define"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2231.974,"endTime":2237.494,"body":"what value means with our"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2237.494,"endTime":2241.184,"body":"clients, with the right people"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2237.494,"endTime":2241.184,"body":"in the room to create what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2241.184,"endTime":2243.914,"body":"we call a scope of value"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2241.184,"endTime":2243.914,"body":"instead of a scope of work."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2244.469,"endTime":2246.989,"body":"And we do that in the form"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2244.469,"endTime":2246.989,"body":"of a success workshop at"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2246.989,"endTime":2248.0690000000004,"body":"the beginning of a project."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2248.639,"endTime":2251.9390000000003,"body":"And so the agencies that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2248.639,"endTime":2251.9390000000003,"body":"have done this, they call"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2251.9390000000003,"endTime":2254.6690000000003,"body":"it their own thing, but it's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2251.9390000000003,"endTime":2254.6690000000003,"body":"the same type of process."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2254.6690000000003,"endTime":2257.2490000000003,"body":"We have the right players in"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2254.6690000000003,"endTime":2257.2490000000003,"body":"the room to make the decisions"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2257.2490000000003,"endTime":2260.0690000000004,"body":"about different types of pricing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2257.2490000000003,"endTime":2260.0690000000004,"body":"models that we can use in this"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2260.0690000000004,"endTime":2262.799,"body":"work, and getting access to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2260.0690000000004,"endTime":2262.799,"body":"the right tools in the metrics."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2262.799,"endTime":2265.3790000000004,"body":"And if we know that there are"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2262.799,"endTime":2265.3790000000004,"body":"gaps in the metrics and what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2265.3790000000004,"endTime":2268.659,"body":"they can and can't track, then"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2265.3790000000004,"endTime":2268.659,"body":"that informs just how we're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2268.659,"endTime":2269.8590000000004,"body":"gonna structure that agreement."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2270.264,"endTime":2273.324,"body":"We're in a much better place"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2270.264,"endTime":2273.324,"body":"to now have a true value-based"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2273.324,"endTime":2274.164,"body":"agreement with our client."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2274.764,"endTime":2277.164,"body":"The other way to create a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2274.764,"endTime":2277.164,"body":"value-based agreement is more"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2277.164,"endTime":2280.884,"body":"of, I usually refer to it as"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2277.164,"endTime":2280.884,"body":"either estimated value or sort"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2280.884,"endTime":2284.454,"body":"of assumed value, where you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2280.884,"endTime":2284.454,"body":"don't have the same luxury"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2284.454,"endTime":2285.594,"body":"of having this conversation."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2285.594,"endTime":2286.614,"body":"You don't have those metrics."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2286.614,"endTime":2291.5040000000004,"body":"So based on your expertise"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2286.614,"endTime":2291.5040000000004,"body":"in your area of focus and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2291.5640000000003,"endTime":2293.934,"body":"knowing the value of your"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2291.5640000000003,"endTime":2293.934,"body":"solution and past case"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2293.934,"endTime":2295.974,"body":"studies and the benefits"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2293.934,"endTime":2295.974,"body":"it's provided to clients."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2296.6940000000004,"endTime":2299.574,"body":"Make an estimate of what's the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2296.6940000000004,"endTime":2299.574,"body":"range of value for this client"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2299.574,"endTime":2300.7740000000003,"body":"and you price based on that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2301.3740000000003,"endTime":2302.994,"body":"It might be completely off base."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2303.414,"endTime":2304.554,"body":"It may not be over time."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2304.554,"endTime":2307.2540000000004,"body":"You get much better at this, but"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2304.554,"endTime":2307.2540000000004,"body":"you also have to consider what's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2307.2540000000004,"endTime":2308.514,"body":"the client's situation, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2308.514,"endTime":2309.804,"body":"What's their sense of urgency?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2309.804,"endTime":2312.6240000000003,"body":"Are you the only one that they"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2309.804,"endTime":2312.6240000000003,"body":"know that offers what you do?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2313.224,"endTime":2315.414,"body":"All these other things"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2313.224,"endTime":2315.414,"body":"play into your pricing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2315.414,"endTime":2317.304,"body":"leverage and how to price."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2317.8590000000004,"endTime":2321.009,"body":"Then of course we use the three"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2317.8590000000004,"endTime":2321.009,"body":"different tiers, which increases"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2321.009,"endTime":2323.9190000000003,"body":"your odds of closing the deal"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2321.009,"endTime":2323.9190000000003,"body":"rather than losing to a price."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2323.9190000000003,"endTime":2326.759,"body":"'cause instead of a yes no"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2323.9190000000003,"endTime":2326.759,"body":"answer to a single price, it's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2326.759,"endTime":2328.3790000000004,"body":"which option is right for you."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2328.7690000000002,"endTime":2331.1690000000003,"body":"And you can always, say we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2328.7690000000002,"endTime":2331.1690000000003,"body":"have some add-ons to customize."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2331.1690000000003,"endTime":2333.349,"body":"If it's not exactly what you're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2331.1690000000003,"endTime":2333.349,"body":"looking for, we can adjust"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2333.349,"endTime":2334.369,"body":"some of these options anyway."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2334.369,"endTime":2335.2090000000003,"body":"That's the way to do it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2335.599,"endTime":2337.639,"body":"What I really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2335.599,"endTime":2337.639,"body":"like about this is that the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2337.639,"endTime":2340.0690000000004,"body":"model is almost based more on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2337.639,"endTime":2340.0690000000004,"body":"like strategic partnership."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2340.1290000000004,"endTime":2342.7690000000002,"body":"It's like a partnership, like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2340.1290000000004,"endTime":2342.7690000000002,"body":"a longer term partnership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2342.7690000000002,"endTime":2343.6690000000003,"body":"with your clients."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2344.0890000000004,"endTime":2346.639,"body":"Coming back to that like sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2344.0890000000004,"endTime":2346.639,"body":"of retainer relationship, the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2346.639,"endTime":2349.279,"body":"reason why a retainer model"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2346.639,"endTime":2349.279,"body":"was attractive in the first"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2349.279,"endTime":2351.639,"body":"place is was 'cause for at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2349.279,"endTime":2351.639,"body":"least in my experience was"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2352.0,"endTime":2353.619,"body":"you understand our business,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2352.0,"endTime":2353.619,"body":"you're deepening your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2353.619,"endTime":2354.73,"body":"understanding of our business."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2354.73,"endTime":2357.9700000000003,"body":"And yeah, we want to be able"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2354.73,"endTime":2357.9700000000003,"body":"to call on you, whenever we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2357.9700000000003,"endTime":2360.01,"body":"need your services, we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2357.9700000000003,"endTime":2360.01,"body":"treat you like one of the team."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2360.01,"endTime":2362.199,"body":"But really the value"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2360.01,"endTime":2362.199,"body":"is that you get us."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2362.44,"endTime":2364.539,"body":"And this kind of is, as you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2362.44,"endTime":2364.539,"body":"mentioned, not the same as a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2364.539,"endTime":2368.65,"body":"retainer model, it's more based"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2364.539,"endTime":2368.65,"body":"on like impact and value, but it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2368.65,"endTime":2370.549,"body":"really creates that partnership."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2370.924,"endTime":2373.474,"body":"From the get go, and that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2370.924,"endTime":2373.474,"body":"part of what the value is."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2373.724,"endTime":2378.884,"body":"Not how fast can you create"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2373.724,"endTime":2378.884,"body":"a wire frame, but how likely"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2378.884,"endTime":2382.244,"body":"is it that you are going to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2378.884,"endTime":2382.244,"body":"create a wire frame that really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2382.244,"endTime":2386.1440000000002,"body":"connects with our customer and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2382.244,"endTime":2386.1440000000002,"body":"our strategy and our target"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2386.1440000000002,"endTime":2388.674,"body":"market and what we wanna do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2386.1440000000002,"endTime":2388.674,"body":"with the experience on, a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2388.674,"endTime":2390.0240000000003,"body":"website or what have you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2391.659,"endTime":2394.4190000000003,"body":"Therefore it's not really,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2391.659,"endTime":2394.4190000000003,"body":"the scrutiny isn't about how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2394.4190000000003,"endTime":2395.529,"body":"long is that gonna take you?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2395.799,"endTime":2400.0190000000002,"body":"It's a, okay, how are you going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2395.799,"endTime":2400.0190000000002,"body":"to make sure that it's a fit for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2400.0190000000002,"endTime":2401.549,"body":"what we wanna do for a strategy?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2401.639,"endTime":2403.6490000000003,"body":"Prove to me that you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2401.639,"endTime":2403.6490000000003,"body":"understand what the mission"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2403.6490000000003,"endTime":2406.0190000000002,"body":"is, what our problem is,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2403.6490000000003,"endTime":2406.0190000000002,"body":"and how you can solve it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2406.409,"endTime":2408.8390000000004,"body":"Which I mean, I don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2406.409,"endTime":2408.8390000000004,"body":"know, maybe that's like an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2408.8390000000004,"endTime":2411.1290000000004,"body":"opportune time for me to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2408.8390000000004,"endTime":2411.1290000000004,"body":"ask, the elephant in the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2411.1290000000004,"endTime":2412.039,"body":"room question, which is like."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2412.614,"endTime":2414.204,"body":"Where's the project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2412.614,"endTime":2414.204,"body":"manager in all of this?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2414.204,"endTime":2416.514,"body":"Because normally we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2414.204,"endTime":2416.514,"body":"like, oh, did we deliver"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2416.514,"endTime":2417.474,"body":"the thing on time?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2417.474,"endTime":2418.404,"body":"I guess we're done."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2418.764,"endTime":2421.0440000000003,"body":"And there has been all this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2418.764,"endTime":2421.0440000000003,"body":"dialogue, especially from the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2421.0440000000003,"endTime":2423.474,"body":"Project Management Institute"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2421.0440000000003,"endTime":2423.474,"body":"and others, about how we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2423.474,"endTime":2426.054,"body":"need to be accountable for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2423.474,"endTime":2426.054,"body":"the value that we deliver."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2426.054,"endTime":2428.1240000000003,"body":"We are value"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2426.054,"endTime":2428.1240000000003,"body":"delivery specialists."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2428.1240000000003,"endTime":2431.8740000000003,"body":"We are not just hit the iron"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2428.1240000000003,"endTime":2431.8740000000003,"body":"triangle, deliver what's on the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2431.8740000000003,"endTime":2433.1040000000003,"body":"checklist, and then move on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2433.6440000000002,"endTime":2434.934,"body":"But I think the big"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2433.6440000000002,"endTime":2434.934,"body":"question is cool."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2434.9840000000004,"endTime":2436.034,"body":"What does that look like?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2436.034,"endTime":2438.434,"body":"Not everyone has really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2436.034,"endTime":2438.434,"body":"painted a clear picture"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2438.764,"endTime":2442.304,"body":"of how a project manager"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2438.764,"endTime":2442.304,"body":"might go about supporting a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2442.304,"endTime":2447.0440000000003,"body":"value-based model when we've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2442.304,"endTime":2447.0440000000003,"body":"just been trained to make sure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2447.134,"endTime":2448.3940000000002,"body":"deliverables happen on time."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2449.5640000000003,"endTime":2450.614,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2449.5640000000003,"endTime":2450.614,"body":"a hundred percent."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2450.974,"endTime":2453.404,"body":"This is one of the pieces I"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2450.974,"endTime":2453.404,"body":"was most excited to chat with"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2453.404,"endTime":2455.594,"body":"you about because obviously"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2453.404,"endTime":2455.594,"body":"you know, you, I know your"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2455.594,"endTime":2458.684,"body":"audience and I come from a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2455.594,"endTime":2458.684,"body":"project management background"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2458.684,"endTime":2459.674,"body":"going back many years."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2460.079,"endTime":2463.2290000000003,"body":"So it's never been a project"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2460.079,"endTime":2463.2290000000003,"body":"manager's job in my eyes"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2463.2290000000003,"endTime":2466.679,"body":"to just manage schedules,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2463.2290000000003,"endTime":2466.679,"body":"tasks and utilization"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2466.679,"endTime":2467.579,"body":"and all of that, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2467.579,"endTime":2470.3590000000004,"body":"It's always been about"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2467.579,"endTime":2470.3590000000004,"body":"leading the team toward"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2470.719,"endTime":2472.309,"body":"the successful project."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2472.309,"endTime":2475.099,"body":"And now in some firms we used"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2472.309,"endTime":2475.099,"body":"to define success as well."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2475.099,"endTime":2476.299,"body":"Is it on time and on budget?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2476.299,"endTime":2477.4990000000003,"body":"And what our client's happy."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2478.009,"endTime":2482.539,"body":"But in this model, we're looking"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2478.009,"endTime":2482.539,"body":"more sharply at the outcome."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2482.5690000000004,"endTime":2483.889,"body":"Did we produce the outcome?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2483.889,"endTime":2485.2090000000003,"body":"And that's what it needs"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2483.889,"endTime":2485.2090000000003,"body":"to be about, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2485.2090000000003,"endTime":2486.049,"body":"We need to."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2486.5,"endTime":2489.739,"body":"Project managers need to see"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2486.5,"endTime":2489.739,"body":"themselves less as the task"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2489.739,"endTime":2492.98,"body":"managers, and many already"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2489.739,"endTime":2492.98,"body":"have evolved well past that,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2493.429,"endTime":2496.699,"body":"and we need to move into the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2493.429,"endTime":2496.699,"body":"space of being outcome leaders."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2497.15,"endTime":2500.0,"body":"And so how do we lead"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2497.15,"endTime":2500.0,"body":"the team toward that?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2500.0,"endTime":2504.71,"body":"And so in this model, it's so"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2500.0,"endTime":2504.71,"body":"much less about how busy are we?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2504.739,"endTime":2506.779,"body":"Did we track all of our"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2504.739,"endTime":2506.779,"body":"time in order to know"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2506.779,"endTime":2508.009,"body":"who's actually productive?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2508.009,"endTime":2510.02,"body":"Time sheets have never"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2508.009,"endTime":2510.02,"body":"told us who's productive."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2510.02,"endTime":2512.509,"body":"They just tell us someone"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2510.02,"endTime":2512.509,"body":"tracked this many hours, we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2512.509,"endTime":2514.25,"body":"don't know what was actually"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2512.509,"endTime":2514.25,"body":"produced in that time."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2514.25,"endTime":2517.1490000000003,"body":"And we need to measure"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2514.25,"endTime":2517.1490000000003,"body":"how valuable we are, but"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2517.1490000000003,"endTime":2519.549,"body":"not necessarily at the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2517.1490000000003,"endTime":2519.549,"body":"individual level, at the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2519.549,"endTime":2522.1290000000004,"body":"team level, because we're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2519.549,"endTime":2522.1290000000004,"body":"all working together."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2522.1290000000004,"endTime":2524.4990000000003,"body":"We're all sharing the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2522.1290000000004,"endTime":2524.4990000000003,"body":"accountability of producing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2524.4990000000003,"endTime":2528.009,"body":"that outcome and getting at the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2524.4990000000003,"endTime":2528.009,"body":"individual level can be helpful"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2528.009,"endTime":2530.739,"body":"if the individual wants to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2528.009,"endTime":2530.739,"body":"learn, how can I work better?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2531.1290000000004,"endTime":2534.759,"body":"But we're not trying to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2531.1290000000004,"endTime":2534.759,"body":"really scrutinize anyone's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2534.759,"endTime":2536.199,"body":"hours on a project."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2536.199,"endTime":2539.1690000000003,"body":"What we're trying to do"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2536.199,"endTime":2539.1690000000003,"body":"is make sure that the team"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2539.1690000000003,"endTime":2541.179,"body":"is happy with how they're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2539.1690000000003,"endTime":2541.179,"body":"working and they're working"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2541.179,"endTime":2542.5890000000004,"body":"as a highly effective team."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2542.934,"endTime":2545.395,"body":"If somebody's dropping the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2542.934,"endTime":2545.395,"body":"ball they're gonna hear about"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2545.395,"endTime":2547.525,"body":"it or somebody's gonna hear"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2545.395,"endTime":2547.525,"body":"about it, but we don't need"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2547.525,"endTime":2548.695,"body":"a time sheet to tell us that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2548.905,"endTime":2551.485,"body":"And so we really wanna look at"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2548.905,"endTime":2551.485,"body":"these metrics at the team level"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2551.875,"endTime":2555.474,"body":"because that's the unit of value"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2551.875,"endTime":2555.474,"body":"or the system that's pushing"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2555.474,"endTime":2556.764,"body":"out the value for the firm."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2557.215,"endTime":2560.934,"body":"So it shifts the role of a PM"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2557.215,"endTime":2560.934,"body":"if for PMs that haven't already"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2560.934,"endTime":2564.445,"body":"made this shift, I think you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2560.934,"endTime":2564.445,"body":"call it value managers, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2564.445,"endTime":2566.905,"body":"And so that's ultimately"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2564.445,"endTime":2566.905,"body":"what it's guiding"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2566.905,"endTime":2568.704,"body":"delivery around outcomes."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2569.454,"endTime":2572.335,"body":"Clarity and client impact"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2569.454,"endTime":2572.335,"body":"instead of the time and budget."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2572.385,"endTime":2574.9950000000003,"body":"And there are metrics that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2572.385,"endTime":2574.9950000000003,"body":"they can use to help them do"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2574.9950000000003,"endTime":2577.4550000000004,"body":"this too, but that mindset"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2574.9950000000003,"endTime":2577.4550000000004,"body":"shift has to come first."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2577.755,"endTime":2577.905,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2577.905,"endTime":2579.405,"body":"It's almost the same"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2577.905,"endTime":2579.405,"body":"transformation, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2580.2000000000003,"endTime":2583.1150000000002,"body":"The philosophical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2580.2000000000003,"endTime":2583.1150000000002,"body":"transformation, the strategic"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2583.2050000000004,"endTime":2586.295,"body":"transformation and along"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2583.2050000000004,"endTime":2586.295,"body":"with measurement as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2586.655,"endTime":2588.005,"body":"I really like that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2586.655,"endTime":2588.005,"body":"and I agree with you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2588.005,"endTime":2590.654,"body":"I think a lot of, folks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2588.005,"endTime":2590.654,"body":"have moved beyond that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2590.654,"endTime":2593.085,"body":"idea that a project manager"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2590.654,"endTime":2593.085,"body":"just, is a task manager."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2593.5350000000003,"endTime":2595.425,"body":"I think that actually paints"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2593.5350000000003,"endTime":2595.425,"body":"a clear picture of how you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2595.425,"endTime":2600.434,"body":"can like use value as a lens"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2595.425,"endTime":2600.434,"body":"to look at the quality of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2600.434,"endTime":2603.134,"body":"work being done as a team,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2600.434,"endTime":2603.134,"body":"not necessarily these like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2603.164,"endTime":2606.465,"body":"individual parts that hopefully"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2603.164,"endTime":2606.465,"body":"will come together and add up"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2606.465,"endTime":2608.2650000000003,"body":"to the outcome that we want."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2608.655,"endTime":2610.5150000000003,"body":"And I think we've all had those"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2608.655,"endTime":2610.5150000000003,"body":"projects where we're like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2611.145,"endTime":2613.4550000000004,"body":"okay, we have this deliverable"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2611.145,"endTime":2613.4550000000004,"body":"and we're supposed to do it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2613.755,"endTime":2616.2650000000003,"body":"We're just not sure if it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2613.755,"endTime":2616.2650000000003,"body":"gonna is it even useful?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2616.2650000000003,"endTime":2617.255,"body":"What are they gonna do with it?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2617.255,"endTime":2619.6850000000004,"body":"I guess we should still deliver"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2617.255,"endTime":2619.6850000000004,"body":"it because we're supposed to."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2620.105,"endTime":2622.5950000000003,"body":"The flip side of that is listen,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2620.105,"endTime":2622.5950000000003,"body":"we're supposed to do this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2622.925,"endTime":2624.0350000000003,"body":"I don't think you need it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2624.215,"endTime":2626.7050000000004,"body":"It's not gonna have the va,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2624.215,"endTime":2626.7050000000004,"body":"this is gonna have more value."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2626.755,"endTime":2629.8450000000003,"body":"Can we shift into this model, or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2626.755,"endTime":2629.8450000000003,"body":"can we do this approach instead?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2630.145,"endTime":2631.7650000000003,"body":"Because we understand the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2630.145,"endTime":2631.7650000000003,"body":"problem we're trying to solve,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2631.7650000000003,"endTime":2634.1650000000004,"body":"not because we understand"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2631.7650000000003,"endTime":2634.1650000000004,"body":"the scope of work document"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2634.1650000000004,"endTime":2634.9750000000004,"body":"that's sitting on our desk."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2635.44,"endTime":2636.76,"body":"Yes, because"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2635.44,"endTime":2636.76,"body":"the client didn't buy"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2636.76,"endTime":2638.8300000000004,"body":"those deliverables and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2636.76,"endTime":2638.8300000000004,"body":"is not checking boxes to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2638.8300000000004,"endTime":2639.88,"body":"say, I need this and this."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2639.88,"endTime":2640.96,"body":"They need the result."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2640.96,"endTime":2642.73,"body":"And if you're the expert and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2640.96,"endTime":2642.73,"body":"you know how to get to that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2642.73,"endTime":2645.44,"body":"result and you're seeing a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2642.73,"endTime":2645.44,"body":"need to change course, then"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2645.44,"endTime":2647.5400000000004,"body":"the client should be ready"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2645.44,"endTime":2647.5400000000004,"body":"to trust that if you set up,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2647.5400000000004,"endTime":2648.8300000000004,"body":"if a whole model's in place."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2649.28,"endTime":2651.2000000000003,"body":"You've set up that trust"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2649.28,"endTime":2651.2000000000003,"body":"with the client and so on."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2651.2000000000003,"endTime":2651.8300000000004,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2651.98,"endTime":2652.1600000000003,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2652.4900000000002,"endTime":2653.8700000000003,"body":"Maybe I'll round"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2652.4900000000002,"endTime":2653.8700000000003,"body":"out with this, 'cause we talked"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2653.92,"endTime":2654.76,"body":"you mentioned earlier, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2654.76,"endTime":2656.8300000000004,"body":"Like kind of results and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2654.76,"endTime":2656.8300000000004,"body":"I think folks listening,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2656.8300000000004,"endTime":2658.3300000000004,"body":"they're like, okay Brian,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2656.8300000000004,"endTime":2658.3300000000004,"body":"that's all fine and good."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2658.3300000000004,"endTime":2660.13,"body":"Yeah, we can go on this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2658.3300000000004,"endTime":2660.13,"body":"transformation journey."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2660.19,"endTime":2661.57,"body":"It's not gonna be easy."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2661.84,"endTime":2664.9300000000003,"body":"And we'll have to like really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2661.84,"endTime":2664.9300000000003,"body":"have a deep thought about who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2664.9300000000003,"endTime":2667.27,"body":"we're for and who we're not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2664.9300000000003,"endTime":2667.27,"body":"for, and how we position our"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2667.27,"endTime":2669.73,"body":"value, how we go after business"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2667.27,"endTime":2669.73,"body":"and how we manage the work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2669.73,"endTime":2669.7400000000002,"body":"But."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2670.565,"endTime":2674.045,"body":"Is it going to make a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2670.565,"endTime":2674.045,"body":"difference to, our livelihoods"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2674.045,"endTime":2675.695,"body":"as, staff within an agency?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2675.695,"endTime":2678.005,"body":"Or is it going to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2675.695,"endTime":2678.005,"body":"help agencies grow?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2678.0550000000003,"endTime":2681.025,"body":"What are the kind of results"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2678.0550000000003,"endTime":2681.025,"body":"that you've seen just at a high"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2681.025,"endTime":2683.2450000000003,"body":"level after adopting this model?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2683.5150000000003,"endTime":2685.7050000000004,"body":"Yeah it"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2683.5150000000003,"endTime":2685.7050000000004,"body":"happens in at least two"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2685.7050000000004,"endTime":2688.9750000000004,"body":"buckets, financial and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2685.7050000000004,"endTime":2688.9750000000004,"body":"cultural for the firm."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2689.395,"endTime":2692.7250000000004,"body":"So the firms that do adopt"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2689.395,"endTime":2692.7250000000004,"body":"this model, they typically"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2692.7250000000004,"endTime":2694.42,"body":"quickly see, they see their."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2695.1600000000003,"endTime":2698.5800000000004,"body":"A GI per FDE start to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2695.1600000000003,"endTime":2698.5800000000004,"body":"grow two to three times"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2698.5800000000004,"endTime":2699.5400000000004,"body":"from where they started."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2699.8700000000003,"endTime":2702.9,"body":"They get stronger margins,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2699.8700000000003,"endTime":2702.9,"body":"they get longer and more"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2702.9,"endTime":2705.27,"body":"valuable client relationships"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2702.9,"endTime":2705.27,"body":"out of this because they're"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2705.27,"endTime":2707.4900000000002,"body":"delivering outcomes clients"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2705.27,"endTime":2707.4900000000002,"body":"actually care about, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2707.4900000000002,"endTime":2710.13,"body":"It's not about checking"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2707.4900000000002,"endTime":2710.13,"body":"the boxes for activities or"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2710.13,"endTime":2712.3500000000004,"body":"hours or even deliverables"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2710.13,"endTime":2712.3500000000004,"body":"in certain cases."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2712.6800000000003,"endTime":2715.1400000000003,"body":"There's an agency that we"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2712.6800000000003,"endTime":2715.1400000000003,"body":"worked with that shifted just"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2715.17,"endTime":2716.67,"body":"one of their core offerings."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2716.67,"endTime":2718.71,"body":"We started with a pilot"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2716.67,"endTime":2718.71,"body":"for them, just a pilot"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2718.86,"endTime":2723.57,"body":"productized offering, and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2718.86,"endTime":2723.57,"body":"so we moved from charging."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2723.945,"endTime":2727.27,"body":"Hours for both their strategy"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2723.945,"endTime":2727.27,"body":"services and by doing that,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2727.27,"endTime":2729.3100000000004,"body":"it was, they were already"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2727.27,"endTime":2729.3100000000004,"body":"undervalued terribly because"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2729.3100000000004,"endTime":2730.84,"body":"they were selling it the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2729.3100000000004,"endTime":2730.84,"body":"same way as execution."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2731.3500000000004,"endTime":2734.1400000000003,"body":"And we packaged that with"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2731.3500000000004,"endTime":2734.1400000000003,"body":"their design services, which"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2734.1400000000003,"endTime":2737.2000000000003,"body":"they were seeing clients were"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2734.1400000000003,"endTime":2737.2000000000003,"body":"taking in-house, or AI was"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2737.2000000000003,"endTime":2740.3500000000004,"body":"really making it hard to charge"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2737.2000000000003,"endTime":2740.3500000000004,"body":"as they would for design."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2740.3500000000004,"endTime":2743.23,"body":"So when we combine the two"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2740.3500000000004,"endTime":2743.23,"body":"to solve a very specific"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2743.235,"endTime":2745.51,"body":"problem and frame the value"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2743.235,"endTime":2745.51,"body":"with what clients really"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2745.51,"endTime":2747.7900000000004,"body":"cared about, which was also"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2745.51,"endTime":2747.7900000000004,"body":"speed of delivery and so on."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2748.2400000000002,"endTime":2751.3300000000004,"body":"They were able to sell that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2748.2400000000002,"endTime":2751.3300000000004,"body":"back to the same clients"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2751.51,"endTime":2754.3300000000004,"body":"that they had bought this"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2751.51,"endTime":2754.3300000000004,"body":"for years, individually as"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2754.3300000000004,"endTime":2758.38,"body":"capabilities, and they sold it"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2754.3300000000004,"endTime":2758.38,"body":"at a 66% higher price point."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2758.8,"endTime":2760.9900000000002,"body":"And because they had the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2758.8,"endTime":2760.9900000000002,"body":"solution and were able to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2760.9900000000002,"endTime":2763.6000000000004,"body":"create a repeatable system to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2760.9900000000002,"endTime":2763.6000000000004,"body":"get this work out the door,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2763.9,"endTime":2766.6600000000003,"body":"just even in the proposal, it"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2763.9,"endTime":2766.6600000000003,"body":"took them two days instead of"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2766.69,"endTime":2769.7200000000003,"body":"a week to deliver the proposal,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2766.69,"endTime":2769.7200000000003,"body":"which was already some proof"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2769.7200000000003,"endTime":2772.4500000000003,"body":"of value or speed to value for"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2769.7200000000003,"endTime":2772.4500000000003,"body":"the client because they really"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2772.4500000000003,"endTime":2773.6800000000003,"body":"wanted to get their work done."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2773.6800000000003,"endTime":2775.75,"body":"This particular"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2773.6800000000003,"endTime":2775.75,"body":"firm, their clients."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2776.11,"endTime":2778.9,"body":"The speed was most important"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2776.11,"endTime":2778.9,"body":"to them because of the size of"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2778.9,"endTime":2782.02,"body":"these engagements and the value"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2778.9,"endTime":2782.02,"body":"in the market, and then also"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2782.02,"endTime":2783.3700000000003,"body":"they can deliver much faster."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2783.76,"endTime":2787.69,"body":"And so they freed up, they"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2783.76,"endTime":2787.69,"body":"estimated about 2000 hours"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2787.69,"endTime":2789.4,"body":"just for new biz efforts alone."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2789.4,"endTime":2792.4900000000002,"body":"By reducing the proposal"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2789.4,"endTime":2792.4900000000002,"body":"time, they delivered the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2792.4900000000002,"endTime":2795.3700000000003,"body":"value faster in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2792.4900000000002,"endTime":2795.3700000000003,"body":"engagement so they can deliver"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2795.3700000000003,"endTime":2798.4900000000002,"body":"more productized offerings"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2795.3700000000003,"endTime":2798.4900000000002,"body":"within the same timeframe."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2798.4900000000002,"endTime":2799.6000000000004,"body":"So generating more revenue."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2799.96,"endTime":2802.8700000000003,"body":"What they calculated is"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2799.96,"endTime":2802.8700000000003,"body":"somewhere between 600,000"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2802.8700000000003,"endTime":2807.01,"body":"to 1.5 million in new income"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2802.8700000000003,"endTime":2807.01,"body":"alone, just from remodeling"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2807.07,"endTime":2808.51,"body":"already existing services."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2808.51,"endTime":2810.73,"body":"No new staff, no new"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2808.51,"endTime":2810.73,"body":"clients, nothing."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2810.73,"endTime":2812.23,"body":"Just what they already do."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2812.8,"endTime":2815.11,"body":"That's one example, but"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2812.8,"endTime":2815.11,"body":"there are other examples"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2815.11,"endTime":2817.48,"body":"of just how quickly"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2815.11,"endTime":2817.48,"body":"agencies have seen value."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2817.48,"endTime":2819.1000000000004,"body":"Just getting out the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2817.48,"endTime":2819.1000000000004,"body":"door from our program"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2819.13,"endTime":2820.1800000000003,"body":"one month into market."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2820.525,"endTime":2822.445,"body":"Is usually within that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2820.525,"endTime":2822.445,"body":"one month, they're able to"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2822.445,"endTime":2825.8050000000003,"body":"sell their first offering,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2822.445,"endTime":2825.8050000000003,"body":"usually at about 50% higher"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2825.8050000000003,"endTime":2827.125,"body":"than average deal value."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2827.4550000000004,"endTime":2829.405,"body":"We have several case studies,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2827.4550000000004,"endTime":2829.405,"body":"but these are just some of them."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2829.645,"endTime":2830.7250000000004,"body":"And very"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2829.645,"endTime":2830.7250000000004,"body":"impressive numbers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2831.085,"endTime":2833.815,"body":"There's also this like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2831.085,"endTime":2833.815,"body":"underlying this thread of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2833.815,"endTime":2835.885,"body":"steel and you've mentioned"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2833.815,"endTime":2835.885,"body":"it a couple times with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2835.885,"endTime":2838.135,"body":"like lean creative teams."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2838.645,"endTime":2840.8650000000002,"body":"I know a lot of businesses Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2838.645,"endTime":2840.8650000000002,"body":"they're looking, it is natural"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2840.8650000000002,"endTime":2842.1850000000004,"body":"to look at revenue per FTE."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2842.605,"endTime":2844.5150000000003,"body":"You were talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2842.605,"endTime":2844.5150000000003,"body":"a case study where they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2844.5150000000003,"endTime":2845.8050000000003,"body":"hadn't changed the staff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2846.27,"endTime":2849.6200000000003,"body":"And we're still able to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2846.27,"endTime":2849.6200000000003,"body":"grow their revenue, grow"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2849.6200000000003,"endTime":2851.1800000000003,"body":"their business, even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2849.6200000000003,"endTime":2851.1800000000003,"body":"from existing clients."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2851.57,"endTime":2853.27,"body":"But does, has maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2851.57,"endTime":2853.27,"body":"changed the future."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2853.63,"endTime":2856.51,"body":"Here's what I'm thinking because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2853.63,"endTime":2856.51,"body":"I'm like, okay, if I was to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2856.51,"endTime":2860.3500000000004,"body":"start an agency from scratch"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2856.51,"endTime":2860.3500000000004,"body":"today, who would I hire and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2860.59,"endTime":2865.26,"body":"would I hire a bunch of, lower"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2860.59,"endTime":2865.26,"body":"cost sort of specialists in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2865.26,"endTime":2866.9100000000003,"body":"the service that they offer?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2867.3,"endTime":2871.8,"body":"Or would I invest in one"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2867.3,"endTime":2871.8,"body":"or two people who are like."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2872.355,"endTime":2875.625,"body":"Domain and category experts"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2872.355,"endTime":2875.625,"body":"who are on side with the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2875.625,"endTime":2879.105,"body":"productization who don't really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2875.625,"endTime":2879.105,"body":"wanna do heavily customized"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2879.105,"endTime":2882.0750000000003,"body":"things, something that we can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2879.105,"endTime":2882.0750000000003,"body":"automate and use AI to support."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2882.4350000000004,"endTime":2885.675,"body":"And maybe they've got, a set"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2882.4350000000004,"endTime":2885.675,"body":"of AI tools or agents that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2885.675,"endTime":2888.405,"body":"are helping produce the work"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2885.675,"endTime":2888.405,"body":"because the value is not how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2888.405,"endTime":2891.465,"body":"fast can I draw a button on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2888.405,"endTime":2891.465,"body":"a page, or, how fast can I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2891.465,"endTime":2892.9950000000003,"body":"type code into a machine?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2893.355,"endTime":2895.635,"body":"But it's like, how well do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2893.355,"endTime":2895.635,"body":"I understand the problem"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2895.635,"endTime":2896.565,"body":"that I'm meant to solve?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2896.9550000000004,"endTime":2901.8450000000003,"body":"And then do you see this as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2896.9550000000004,"endTime":2901.8450000000003,"body":"agencies getting smaller and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2902.0550000000003,"endTime":2904.7850000000003,"body":"the project's moving faster"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2902.0550000000003,"endTime":2904.7850000000003,"body":"because the billing model is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2904.7850000000003,"endTime":2907.755,"body":"not about hours and there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2904.7850000000003,"endTime":2907.755,"body":"less bloat you can move quicker?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2908.2050000000004,"endTime":2911.8050000000003,"body":"Or is it the same model that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2908.2050000000004,"endTime":2911.8050000000003,"body":"we've been seeing, just a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2911.8050000000003,"endTime":2913.5750000000003,"body":"different positioning in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2911.8050000000003,"endTime":2913.5750000000003,"body":"the marketplace, different"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2913.5750000000003,"endTime":2915.5750000000003,"body":"pricing, different way of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2913.5750000000003,"endTime":2915.5750000000003,"body":"managing and leading the work?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2915.905,"endTime":2917.585,"body":"I think it,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2915.905,"endTime":2917.585,"body":"it could be all those things,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2917.585,"endTime":2918.695,"body":"depending on the business."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2918.7450000000003,"endTime":2921.7650000000003,"body":"I think it's certainly firms"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2918.7450000000003,"endTime":2921.7650000000003,"body":"that still want to play"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2921.7650000000003,"endTime":2923.1150000000002,"body":"in the execution space."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2923.4750000000004,"endTime":2925.5150000000003,"body":"And wanna leverage"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2923.4750000000004,"endTime":2925.5150000000003,"body":"AI to do that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2925.545,"endTime":2927.465,"body":"Just need to do it"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2925.545,"endTime":2927.465,"body":"better than others can."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2927.4950000000003,"endTime":2930.525,"body":"And we see some there's a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2927.4950000000003,"endTime":2930.525,"body":"firm Silverside ai, they do"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2930.525,"endTime":2934.2450000000003,"body":"an innovation lab and they"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2930.525,"endTime":2934.2450000000003,"body":"play largely in the execution"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2934.2450000000003,"endTime":2936.645,"body":"space, also strategy and so on."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2937.1850000000004,"endTime":2939.315,"body":"But yeah, so there are"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2937.1850000000004,"endTime":2939.315,"body":"firms that are really owning"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2939.315,"endTime":2942.7050000000004,"body":"the AI execution space and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2939.315,"endTime":2942.7050000000004,"body":"they're doing amazing things."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2942.7050000000004,"endTime":2945.195,"body":"We see examples littered"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2942.7050000000004,"endTime":2945.195,"body":"throughout LinkedIn all"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2945.195,"endTime":2947.715,"body":"the time of these really"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2945.195,"endTime":2947.715,"body":"great creative examples."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2948.2250000000004,"endTime":2949.0950000000003,"body":"So that's one place."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2949.0950000000003,"endTime":2949.965,"body":"That's one answer."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2949.965,"endTime":2952.335,"body":"And we see other firms that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2949.965,"endTime":2952.335,"body":"are climbing the value chain,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2952.335,"endTime":2955.545,"body":"they're trying to get away from"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2952.335,"endTime":2955.545,"body":"the execution or in, in the way"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2955.545,"endTime":2959.5350000000003,"body":"that we advise is bundling the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2955.545,"endTime":2959.5350000000003,"body":"execution under the umbrella of"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2959.5350000000003,"endTime":2963.7650000000003,"body":"a strategic outcome that takes"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2959.5350000000003,"endTime":2963.7650000000003,"body":"a slice of all of their services"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2963.7650000000003,"endTime":2966.2850000000003,"body":"just to, to solve that problem"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2963.7650000000003,"endTime":2966.2850000000003,"body":"and produce that outcome."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2966.585,"endTime":2968.085,"body":"You're still in execution land."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2968.295,"endTime":2971.175,"body":"It's just combined"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2968.295,"endTime":2971.175,"body":"as a larger solution."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2971.175,"endTime":2973.905,"body":"So it's not price sensitive"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2971.175,"endTime":2973.905,"body":"anymore, and you still need"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2973.905,"endTime":2975.9750000000004,"body":"to do that work, of course,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2973.905,"endTime":2975.9750000000004,"body":"to help your clients with."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2976.395,"endTime":2977.4750000000004,"body":"The activation side of things."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2977.4750000000004,"endTime":2978.195,"body":"So that's one way."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2978.465,"endTime":2982.125,"body":"In terms of talent or size of"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2978.465,"endTime":2982.125,"body":"firms, I think it certainly"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2982.125,"endTime":2986.715,"body":"can be smaller firms if we want"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2982.125,"endTime":2986.715,"body":"it to be, because, and when"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2986.715,"endTime":2989.5950000000003,"body":"we have repeatable solutions,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2986.715,"endTime":2989.5950000000003,"body":"everything's documented,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2989.715,"endTime":2990.525,"body":"or at least should be."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2990.585,"endTime":2993.3450000000003,"body":"It's easier to document because"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2990.585,"endTime":2993.3450000000003,"body":"it's, everything's not custom."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2993.675,"endTime":2995.355,"body":"And by the way, we can"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2993.675,"endTime":2995.355,"body":"still do custom work."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2995.355,"endTime":2997.215,"body":"We just better be"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2995.355,"endTime":2997.215,"body":"charging a premium for it."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2997.635,"endTime":3001.175,"body":"But the repeatability aspect,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":2997.635,"endTime":3001.175,"body":"you can document that easily."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3001.4150000000004,"endTime":3004.5350000000003,"body":"You can use AI to automate"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3001.4150000000004,"endTime":3004.5350000000003,"body":"much more easily in that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3004.5350000000003,"endTime":3008.375,"body":"model, and in that way, you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3004.5350000000003,"endTime":3008.375,"body":"can onboard people much faster."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3008.375,"endTime":3011.405,"body":"You don't have to rely on"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3008.375,"endTime":3011.405,"body":"senior talent as much in that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3011.405,"endTime":3014.735,"body":"case because the learning"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3011.405,"endTime":3014.735,"body":"curve is shorter and you're not"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3014.735,"endTime":3018.565,"body":"relying on one or just a few"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3014.735,"endTime":3018.565,"body":"experts in the firm because now"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3018.565,"endTime":3019.735,"body":"everybody knows how to do this."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3020.2450000000003,"endTime":3023.605,"body":"On top of that, they also can"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3020.2450000000003,"endTime":3023.605,"body":"invest their time in making"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3023.605,"endTime":3024.925,"body":"these solutions better, right?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3025.2850000000003,"endTime":3028.135,"body":"They can really craft"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3025.2850000000003,"endTime":3028.135,"body":"something that is much better"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3028.135,"endTime":3030.565,"body":"than where they started with"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3028.135,"endTime":3030.565,"body":"these solutions is when the"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3030.565,"endTime":3032.815,"body":"team's dedicated to that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3030.565,"endTime":3032.815,"body":"and the documentation's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3032.815,"endTime":3034.7650000000003,"body":"there and experimentation"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3032.815,"endTime":3034.7650000000003,"body":"is allowed and all of that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3035.395,"endTime":3036.505,"body":"So then it's up to the firm."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3036.5350000000003,"endTime":3040.65,"body":"Do we wanna just stay our"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3036.5350000000003,"endTime":3040.65,"body":"size or do we want to."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3041.5,"endTime":3043.63,"body":"Deliver more of our"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3041.5,"endTime":3043.63,"body":"creative solutions and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3043.63,"endTime":3044.7400000000002,"body":"then we expand from there."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3044.7400000000002,"endTime":3045.4300000000003,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3045.4300000000003,"endTime":3048.67,"body":"So it, it's really the business"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3045.4300000000003,"endTime":3048.67,"body":"decision at that point, and you"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3048.67,"endTime":3051.1000000000004,"body":"can always expand into other"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3048.67,"endTime":3051.1000000000004,"body":"markets as well, delivering"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3051.15,"endTime":3055.1400000000003,"body":"the same solutions for a new"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3051.15,"endTime":3055.1400000000003,"body":"space, or focusing on a new"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3055.1400000000003,"endTime":3058.3500000000004,"body":"problem in the same space,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3055.1400000000003,"endTime":3058.3500000000004,"body":"or just trying to create"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3058.3500000000004,"endTime":3061.77,"body":"another model like this for"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3058.3500000000004,"endTime":3061.77,"body":"a whole new category and for"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3061.77,"endTime":3062.8500000000004,"body":"a whole new set of problems."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3063.2250000000004,"endTime":3064.905,"body":"So there's always those"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3063.2250000000004,"endTime":3064.905,"body":"expansion opportunities, but"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3064.905,"endTime":3067.215,"body":"once you've created this model,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3064.905,"endTime":3067.215,"body":"you know how to replicate it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3067.485,"endTime":3069.375,"body":"It's so funny"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3067.485,"endTime":3069.375,"body":"because it never occurred"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3069.375,"endTime":3071.295,"body":"to me until just that very"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3069.375,"endTime":3071.295,"body":"moment, like we talked about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3071.295,"endTime":3074.925,"body":"productization and it's like a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3071.295,"endTime":3074.925,"body":"repackaging, but like actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3074.925,"endTime":3077.895,"body":"the folks within that kind"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3074.925,"endTime":3077.895,"body":"of become product owners."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3078.375,"endTime":3080.025,"body":"What you're saying about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3078.375,"endTime":3080.025,"body":"tweaking and expanding the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3080.025,"endTime":3081.7650000000003,"body":"market and it's what can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3080.025,"endTime":3081.7650000000003,"body":"we do with this product?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3082.125,"endTime":3084.945,"body":"Not, how fast can I type,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3082.125,"endTime":3084.945,"body":"remove a mouse, but what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3084.945,"endTime":3087.465,"body":"can I do with this offering"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3084.945,"endTime":3087.465,"body":"that delivers value?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3087.465,"endTime":3088.425,"body":"How can I change it?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3088.425,"endTime":3089.2050000000004,"body":"How can I tweak it?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3089.2050000000004,"endTime":3092.355,"body":"And that's what the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3089.2050000000004,"endTime":3092.355,"body":"craft becomes more than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3092.5950000000003,"endTime":3093.795,"body":"the actual execution."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3093.795,"endTime":3095.2050000000004,"body":"Like you said, the learning"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3093.795,"endTime":3095.2050000000004,"body":"curve is different."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3095.2050000000004,"endTime":3096.855,"body":"You might not need the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3095.2050000000004,"endTime":3096.855,"body":"hyper senior people."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3097.425,"endTime":3099.4350000000004,"body":"Yeah, it's a very"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3097.425,"endTime":3099.4350000000004,"body":"interesting landscape."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3099.4350000000004,"endTime":3100.7850000000003,"body":"It's an interesting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3099.4350000000004,"endTime":3100.7850000000003,"body":"way of looking at it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3101.025,"endTime":3102.815,"body":"And I like your other point"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3101.025,"endTime":3102.815,"body":"about the fact that, part of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3102.815,"endTime":3105.7250000000004,"body":"it is yeah, deciding who are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3102.815,"endTime":3105.7250000000004,"body":"we for and who are we not for?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3105.9350000000004,"endTime":3106.985,"body":"But the other side is true."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3107.0150000000003,"endTime":3108.2450000000003,"body":"There's people looking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3107.0150000000003,"endTime":3108.2450000000003,"body":"for different things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3108.2450000000003,"endTime":3111.155,"body":"There's folks who are like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3108.2450000000003,"endTime":3111.155,"body":"give me the AI agent agency."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3111.1850000000004,"endTime":3112.4150000000004,"body":"I don't even wanna"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3111.1850000000004,"endTime":3112.4150000000004,"body":"deal with a human."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3112.4150000000004,"endTime":3112.8650000000002,"body":"That's fine."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3112.8650000000002,"endTime":3114.965,"body":"The, I'll do the self-checkout"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3112.8650000000002,"endTime":3114.965,"body":"even though I know there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3114.965,"endTime":3117.395,"body":"a human or the people who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3114.965,"endTime":3117.395,"body":"are like no, I'm gonna go,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3117.815,"endTime":3120.065,"body":"I'm gonna go to the bank"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3117.815,"endTime":3120.065,"body":"teller rather than the atm."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3120.315,"endTime":3121.52,"body":"I really want someone to like."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3122.145,"endTime":3124.005,"body":"Co-create with me and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3122.145,"endTime":3124.005,"body":"help solve a problem."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3124.0550000000003,"endTime":3126.5750000000003,"body":"The market is not just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3124.0550000000003,"endTime":3126.5750000000003,"body":"a flat monolithic buyer."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3126.965,"endTime":3129.3050000000003,"body":"There are people who want"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3126.965,"endTime":3129.3050000000003,"body":"different things and want"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3129.3050000000003,"endTime":3131.9750000000004,"body":"different interactions with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3129.3050000000003,"endTime":3131.9750000000004,"body":"their agency and different"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3131.9750000000004,"endTime":3135.9950000000003,"body":"models to purchase value so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3131.9750000000004,"endTime":3135.9950000000003,"body":"that they can have continuous"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3136.3250000000003,"endTime":3137.645,"body":"problem solving capability."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3138.0950000000003,"endTime":3138.9950000000003,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3139.175,"endTime":3142.195,"body":"But I will say there's also a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3139.175,"endTime":3142.195,"body":"whole nother level of agency,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3142.195,"endTime":3144.145,"body":"which are the ones that are"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3142.195,"endTime":3144.145,"body":"changing their business model"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3144.145,"endTime":3146.395,"body":"completely in terms of what"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3144.145,"endTime":3146.395,"body":"they're building with ai."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3146.395,"endTime":3149.6650000000004,"body":"Even beyond the services just"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3146.395,"endTime":3149.6650000000004,"body":"done a little differently."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3150.085,"endTime":3152.9950000000003,"body":"These are proprietary AI"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3150.085,"endTime":3152.9950000000003,"body":"tools or platforms and so"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3152.9950000000003,"endTime":3156.445,"body":"on, and so that's a whole"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3152.9950000000003,"endTime":3156.445,"body":"nother level that we'll see."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3156.445,"endTime":3158.7250000000004,"body":"The majority of agencies,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3156.445,"endTime":3158.7250000000004,"body":"I think start to go into,"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3158.7250000000004,"endTime":3161.8450000000003,"body":"we just see some leaders"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3158.7250000000004,"endTime":3161.8450000000003,"body":"out there already with ai"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3161.8450000000003,"endTime":3164.5150000000003,"body":"sentiment analysis tools that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3161.8450000000003,"endTime":3164.5150000000003,"body":"they're selling for part of"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3164.5150000000003,"endTime":3168.0550000000003,"body":"the fixed fee brand strategy"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3164.5150000000003,"endTime":3168.0550000000003,"body":"sprints bundled into that."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3168.445,"endTime":3171.355,"body":"Content models, ai, augmented"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3168.445,"endTime":3171.355,"body":"content models, certainly"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3171.405,"endTime":3173.775,"body":"other types of tools that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3171.405,"endTime":3173.775,"body":"they're licensing for"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3173.775,"endTime":3175.1000000000004,"body":"recurring revenue and so on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3175.4,"endTime":3176.3300000000004,"body":"Fits"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3175.4,"endTime":3176.3300000000004,"body":"that value model."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3176.3300000000004,"endTime":3178.25,"body":"You mentioned earlier, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3176.3300000000004,"endTime":3178.25,"body":"mentioned subscriptions"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3178.25,"endTime":3179.9900000000002,"body":"and licensing, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3178.25,"endTime":3179.9900000000002,"body":"I was like, really?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3179.9900000000002,"endTime":3180.77,"body":"How's that gonna work?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3180.77,"endTime":3182.4500000000003,"body":"And now I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3180.77,"endTime":3182.4500000000003,"body":"oh, okay, I get it."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3182.9900000000002,"endTime":3183.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3183.59,"endTime":3185.48,"body":"So when we talk about"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3183.59,"endTime":3185.48,"body":"productizing value, it's"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3185.48,"endTime":3187.9700000000003,"body":"another reason why we don't"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3185.48,"endTime":3187.9700000000003,"body":"say productizing services"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3187.9700000000003,"endTime":3189.38,"body":"because that implies people."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3189.8300000000004,"endTime":3191.0,"body":"We're productizing value."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3191.0,"endTime":3193.5800000000004,"body":"That could be software, it"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3191.0,"endTime":3193.5800000000004,"body":"could be people, it could be a"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3193.5800000000004,"endTime":3194.8700000000003,"body":"hybrid, it could be whatever."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3194.8700000000003,"endTime":3196.4300000000003,"body":"We're just"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3194.8700000000003,"endTime":3196.4300000000003,"body":"productizing value, so."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3196.52,"endTime":3197.42,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3196.52,"endTime":3197.42,"body":"super interesting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3197.4900000000002,"endTime":3198.2400000000002,"body":"Very interesting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3198.6000000000004,"endTime":3201.57,"body":"Brian, you mentioned it earlier,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3198.6000000000004,"endTime":3201.57,"body":"people can reach out to you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3201.96,"endTime":3204.1200000000003,"body":"How can people reach out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3201.96,"endTime":3204.1200000000003,"body":"and learn more about what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3204.1200000000003,"endTime":3206.645,"body":"you do and see how this can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3204.1200000000003,"endTime":3206.645,"body":"fit within their agency?"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3207.315,"endTime":3208.335,"body":"Check"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3207.315,"endTime":3208.335,"body":"out our website"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3208.3650000000002,"endTime":3210.3250000000003,"body":"lodestaragencyconsulting.com."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3210.6150000000002,"endTime":3212.985,"body":"We have a newsletter there if"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3210.6150000000002,"endTime":3212.985,"body":"you go to the blog section."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3212.985,"endTime":3215.1650000000004,"body":"But I'd say if you actually"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3212.985,"endTime":3215.1650000000004,"body":"wanna go further than that"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3215.1650000000004,"endTime":3218.645,"body":"and evaluate how well your own"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3215.1650000000004,"endTime":3218.645,"body":"agency's value model is set up"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3218.645,"endTime":3220.925,"body":"to do what we've been talking"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3218.645,"endTime":3220.925,"body":"about, create and capture value."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3221.315,"endTime":3223.925,"body":"There's a free online"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3221.315,"endTime":3223.925,"body":"assessment, which will have"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3223.925,"endTime":3225.005,"body":"a linked on our website."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3225.38,"endTime":3227.8100000000004,"body":"12 questions less than three"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3225.38,"endTime":3227.8100000000004,"body":"minutes to complete, and"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3227.8100000000004,"endTime":3229.82,"body":"you'll get some detailed"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3227.8100000000004,"endTime":3229.82,"body":"advice back and then of"},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3229.82,"endTime":3230.6600000000003,"body":"course, find me on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3231.23,"endTime":3231.65,"body":"Amazing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3231.65,"endTime":3233.51,"body":"Yes, I will include all those"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3231.65,"endTime":3233.51,"body":"links in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3233.51,"endTime":3235.46,"body":"Brian, thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3233.51,"endTime":3235.46,"body":"for spending the time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3235.46,"endTime":3236.8700000000003,"body":"It's always a pleasure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3235.46,"endTime":3236.8700000000003,"body":"having you on the show."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3237.2000000000003,"endTime":3237.65,"body":"Same here."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3237.65,"endTime":3238.3500000000004,"body":"Thanks so much, Galen."},{"speaker":"Brian Kessman","startTime":3238.3700000000003,"endTime":3238.8500000000004,"body":"This was fun."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3240.2200000000003,"endTime":3241.5400000000004,"body":"Alright"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3240.2200000000003,"endTime":3241.5400000000004,"body":"folks, there you have it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3241.75,"endTime":3243.8500000000004,"body":"As always, if you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3241.75,"endTime":3243.8500000000004,"body":"join the conversation with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3243.8500000000004,"endTime":3246.25,"body":"over a thousand like-minded"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3243.8500000000004,"endTime":3246.25,"body":"project management champions,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3246.4900000000002,"endTime":3247.4500000000003,"body":"come join our collective."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3247.8100000000004,"endTime":3250.6400000000003,"body":"Head over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3247.8100000000004,"endTime":3250.6400000000003,"body":"thedpm.com/membership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3250.6600000000003,"endTime":3251.23,"body":"to learn more."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3251.77,"endTime":3253.9,"body":"And if you like what you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3251.77,"endTime":3253.9,"body":"heard today, please subscribe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3253.9,"endTime":3256.86,"body":"and stay in touch on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3253.9,"endTime":3256.86,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3257.2900000000004,"endTime":3259.15,"body":"Until next time,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3257.2900000000004,"endTime":3259.15,"body":"thanks for listening."}]}