{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":22.580000000000002,"endTime":24.98,"body":"Why is it so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":22.580000000000002,"endTime":24.98,"body":"important for small and medium"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":24.98,"endTime":28.235,"body":"sized professional services"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":24.98,"endTime":28.235,"body":"firms to cultivate their top"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.235,"endTime":29.915,"body":"talent into business leaders?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":30.215,"endTime":31.295,"body":"There's"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":30.215,"endTime":31.295,"body":"a lot going on right"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":31.295,"endTime":32.015,"body":"now in the market."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":32.015,"endTime":35.255,"body":"I feel like technology"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":32.015,"endTime":35.255,"body":"changes weekly or daily."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":35.345,"endTime":38.524,"body":"One of the things we found"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":35.345,"endTime":38.524,"body":"was that for us to succeed,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":38.765,"endTime":41.644999999999996,"body":"we really needed the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":38.765,"endTime":41.644999999999996,"body":"project manager to become"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":41.644999999999996,"endTime":45.094,"body":"a trusted partner of our"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":41.644999999999996,"endTime":45.094,"body":"client, and that drove a"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":45.094,"endTime":47.07,"body":"lot of the new work we got."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":47.28,"endTime":50.1,"body":"What signals are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":47.28,"endTime":50.1,"body":"leaders looking for when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":50.1,"endTime":53.519999999999996,"body":"they're deciding who is ready"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":50.1,"endTime":53.519999999999996,"body":"to step up and what can project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":53.519999999999996,"endTime":54.99,"body":"delivery leads do to stand out?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":55.14,"endTime":57.659,"body":"The first one"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":55.14,"endTime":57.659,"body":"is folks who are ready to step"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":57.659,"endTime":60.51,"body":"up stop asking \"what about"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":57.659,"endTime":60.51,"body":"me?\" It's not, what about me?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":60.51,"endTime":61.26,"body":"It's what about us?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":61.379,"endTime":63.75,"body":"The second thing is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":61.379,"endTime":63.75,"body":"reading the room."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":63.96,"endTime":67.32,"body":"If business is not great,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":63.96,"endTime":67.32,"body":"don't ask for the moon."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":67.595,"endTime":70.38499999999999,"body":"What is the biggest"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":67.595,"endTime":70.38499999999999,"body":"shift in mindset between being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":70.38499999999999,"endTime":73.685,"body":"someone who delivers projects"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":70.38499999999999,"endTime":73.685,"body":"versus being an executive?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":73.685,"endTime":75.935,"body":"To me, it's"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":73.685,"endTime":75.935,"body":"like just a bigger puzzle."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":75.995,"endTime":79.38499999999999,"body":"Now you've got multiple projects"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":75.995,"endTime":79.38499999999999,"body":"and you have leadership who"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":79.38499999999999,"endTime":82.14500000000001,"body":"may or may not be billable,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":79.38499999999999,"endTime":82.14500000000001,"body":"and you have people that are on"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":82.14500000000001,"endTime":84.005,"body":"the bench who are not billable."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":84.215,"endTime":86.525,"body":"How do we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":84.215,"endTime":86.525,"body":"avoid generalist traps,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":86.615,"endTime":89.615,"body":"but maintain efficient"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":86.615,"endTime":89.615,"body":"differentiation of labor?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":96.17,"endTime":96.65,"body":"Hey everyone!"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":96.65,"endTime":99.65,"body":"Welcome to our session on how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":96.65,"endTime":99.65,"body":"project delivery leads can level"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":99.65,"endTime":101.18,"body":"up using a founder's mindset."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":101.57000000000001,"endTime":103.58,"body":"For those who don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":101.57000000000001,"endTime":103.58,"body":"know me, I'm Galen."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":103.64,"endTime":105.86,"body":"I'm the co-founder of The"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":103.64,"endTime":105.86,"body":"Digital Project Manager, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":105.86,"endTime":107.24,"body":"I will be your host for today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":107.6,"endTime":111.02,"body":"This session is all about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":107.6,"endTime":111.02,"body":"how project delivery leaders,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":111.02,"endTime":113.56,"body":"project managers, project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":111.02,"endTime":113.56,"body":"professionals can level up"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":113.56,"endTime":114.97,"body":"into more strategic rules."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":115.24,"endTime":118.6,"body":"But first, before I get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":115.24,"endTime":118.6,"body":"too deep into it, let's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":118.6,"endTime":119.38,"body":"meet our panelists."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":119.92,"endTime":121.399,"body":"First up is Mark Orttung."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":121.6,"endTime":124.69,"body":"Mark is the CEO of Projectworks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":121.6,"endTime":124.69,"body":"and he's helping consultancies"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":124.69,"endTime":127.06,"body":"grow profitably through smarter"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":124.69,"endTime":127.06,"body":"resourcing and delivery."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":127.3,"endTime":129.91,"body":"He previously scaled Nexient"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":127.3,"endTime":129.91,"body":"into the largest US based"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":129.91,"endTime":131.01999999999998,"body":"Agile services partner."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":131.26,"endTime":135.005,"body":"He led Bill.com as President and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":131.26,"endTime":135.005,"body":"Chief Operating Officer, and he"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":135.005,"endTime":137.685,"body":"drove SaaS innovation, honestly,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":135.005,"endTime":137.685,"body":"before the term existed."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":138.425,"endTime":140.525,"body":"Mark, speaking of leveling"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":138.425,"endTime":140.525,"body":"up, you were telling me in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":140.525,"endTime":142.655,"body":"the green room that there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":140.525,"endTime":142.655,"body":"folks that you worked with at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":142.655,"endTime":145.865,"body":"Nexient  as someone that you had"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":142.655,"endTime":145.865,"body":"actually promoted three times."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":146.10500000000002,"endTime":150.035,"body":"Can you just talk a little bit"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":146.10500000000002,"endTime":150.035,"body":"about how she like reset her"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":150.035,"endTime":151.234,"body":"mindset through all that change?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":151.595,"endTime":152.255,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":152.285,"endTime":154.445,"body":"Thank you for having me and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":152.285,"endTime":154.445,"body":"I'm really excited to be here."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":154.775,"endTime":157.745,"body":"I've got a podcast called The"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":154.775,"endTime":157.745,"body":"Z Suite and I had a guest,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":157.774,"endTime":161.345,"body":"Vicki Papa, she worked for me"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":157.774,"endTime":161.345,"body":"at  Nexient and we promoted"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":161.345,"endTime":165.695,"body":"her from account director"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":161.345,"endTime":165.695,"body":"to client partner to general"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":165.695,"endTime":169.67,"body":"manager to chief revenue officer"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":165.695,"endTime":169.67,"body":"over a period of five years."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":170.06,"endTime":172.76,"body":"My favorite quote was, we were"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":170.06,"endTime":172.76,"body":"talking about sort of how does"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":173.12,"endTime":175.76,"body":"her mindset change and how"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":173.12,"endTime":175.76,"body":"do we change the mindset of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":175.76,"endTime":177.74,"body":"clients as she gets new roles?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":177.77,"endTime":178.82,"body":"'cause it's quite difficult."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":179.09,"endTime":181.52,"body":"And my favorite quote was, she"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":179.09,"endTime":181.52,"body":"said, it broke my brain a little"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":181.52,"endTime":183.5,"body":"bit every time you promoted me."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":183.74,"endTime":186.68,"body":"But also that's how I knew"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":183.74,"endTime":186.68,"body":"I was taking on the right"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":186.68,"endTime":188.96,"body":"challenges and pushing"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":186.68,"endTime":188.96,"body":"myself in the right way."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":189.41,"endTime":192.02,"body":"So there's a whole in depth"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":189.41,"endTime":192.02,"body":"discussion that the people"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":192.02,"endTime":193.04,"body":"are welcome to go watch."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":193.37,"endTime":194.94,"body":"But anyway, it was"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":193.37,"endTime":194.94,"body":"just a, it kind of felt"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":194.94,"endTime":196.14000000000001,"body":"like it fit in as well."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":196.51500000000001,"endTime":199.425,"body":"One of the favorite moments I've"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":196.51500000000001,"endTime":199.425,"body":"had from our Z Suite podcast."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":199.695,"endTime":200.235,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":200.295,"endTime":203.175,"body":"Can I first say that I love"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":200.295,"endTime":203.175,"body":"the idea of the Z Suite series?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":203.175,"endTime":206.475,"body":"It's like frank conversations"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":203.175,"endTime":206.475,"body":"of how people have like grown"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":206.475,"endTime":207.855,"body":"and developed in their careers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":208.005,"endTime":209.385,"body":"Folks who are like very high up."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":209.385,"endTime":212.025,"body":"And by the way, that like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":209.385,"endTime":212.025,"body":"reaction from me, my facial"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":212.025,"endTime":213.01500000000001,"body":"reaction was genuine."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":213.01500000000001,"endTime":214.695,"body":"That's the first time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":213.01500000000001,"endTime":214.695,"body":"Mark told me that story."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":214.695,"endTime":215.415,"body":"I'm like, wow."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":215.415,"endTime":216.855,"body":"Like up to the C-suite."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":217.005,"endTime":219.135,"body":"We've talked about it,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":217.005,"endTime":219.135,"body":"but like we didn't have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":219.135,"endTime":220.275,"body":"any examples of it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":220.605,"endTime":221.145,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":221.685,"endTime":222.615,"body":"Who should I pick out next?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":222.675,"endTime":223.215,"body":"Oh yeah, Pam."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":223.895,"endTime":226.26,"body":"Pam, you are the Senior"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":223.895,"endTime":226.26,"body":"Vice President of Delivery"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":226.26,"endTime":229.29,"body":"at Horizontal Digital, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":226.26,"endTime":229.29,"body":"I have described you as a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":229.32,"endTime":232.08,"body":"tough mutter to dozens of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":229.32,"endTime":232.08,"body":"agency project professionals"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":232.26,"endTime":235.2,"body":"who have ascended the ranks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":232.26,"endTime":235.2,"body":"under your guidance fam."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":235.47,"endTime":237.15,"body":"You have a history"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":235.47,"endTime":237.15,"body":"of just like leveling"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":237.21,"endTime":238.83,"body":"people up over the years."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":239.01,"endTime":241.11,"body":"You are somebody who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":239.01,"endTime":241.11,"body":"gets people promoted."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":241.11,"endTime":244.2,"body":"I can say it without you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":241.11,"endTime":244.2,"body":"sounding braggadocios, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":244.2,"endTime":246.255,"body":"it's true, and I've seen"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":244.2,"endTime":246.255,"body":"it happen over the years."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":246.614,"endTime":248.804,"body":"I was wondering if maybe you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":246.614,"endTime":248.804,"body":"could just tell us a bit about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":248.804,"endTime":251.834,"body":"some of the shifts in mindset"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":248.804,"endTime":251.834,"body":"that you've seen for the folks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":251.834,"endTime":252.825,"body":"that you've been leveling up."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":253.184,"endTime":254.864,"body":"You know, maybe to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":253.184,"endTime":254.864,"body":"echo Mark's stories."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":255.225,"endTime":255.674,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":256.06399999999996,"endTime":259.06399999999996,"body":"That question is very timely"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":256.06399999999996,"endTime":259.06399999999996,"body":"and very relevant to what we're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":259.06399999999996,"endTime":260.174,"body":"talking about today, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":260.41499999999996,"endTime":265.094,"body":"10 years ago when I was"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":260.41499999999996,"endTime":265.094,"body":"hiring, promoting, mentoring,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":265.454,"endTime":269.024,"body":"managing project managers,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":265.454,"endTime":269.024,"body":"it was very focused on"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":269.024,"endTime":270.135,"body":"the iron triangle, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":270.135,"endTime":272.024,"body":"It was very focused on,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":270.135,"endTime":272.024,"body":"here's what I have to deliver."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":272.024,"endTime":274.454,"body":"This is what good looks"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":272.024,"endTime":274.454,"body":"like for me by myself,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":274.844,"endTime":275.804,"body":"my slice of the pie."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":276.51,"endTime":279.45000000000005,"body":"Now we need our delivery"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":276.51,"endTime":279.45000000000005,"body":"leaders to understand the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":279.45000000000005,"endTime":282.9,"body":"entire pie and be responsible"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":279.45000000000005,"endTime":282.9,"body":"for the overall success."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":282.9,"endTime":286.5,"body":"And so we're seeing kind of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":282.9,"endTime":286.5,"body":"a shift in where delivery"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":286.71000000000004,"endTime":289.59000000000003,"body":"professionals are going in that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":286.71000000000004,"endTime":289.59000000000003,"body":"they need to care about a lot"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":289.59000000000003,"endTime":290.88,"body":"more than just their own remit."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":290.88,"endTime":290.97,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":291.9,"endTime":294.56899999999996,"body":"I'm sure Galen, you've probably"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":291.9,"endTime":294.56899999999996,"body":"heard me say this before, but"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":294.56899999999996,"endTime":298.86,"body":"I tell my teams it's not your"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":294.56899999999996,"endTime":298.86,"body":"job to solve every problem,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":298.86,"endTime":301.71000000000004,"body":"but it is your job to make sure"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":298.86,"endTime":301.71000000000004,"body":"that every problem gets solved,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":302.03999999999996,"endTime":305.30999999999995,"body":"and that remit has expanded"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":302.03999999999996,"endTime":305.30999999999995,"body":"not just for project delivery,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":305.30999999999995,"endTime":307.59000000000003,"body":"but at an organizational"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":305.30999999999995,"endTime":307.59000000000003,"body":"level now for delivery leads."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":308.009,"endTime":310.11,"body":"I love that sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":308.009,"endTime":310.11,"body":"of zoom out, and I like that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":310.11,"endTime":312.509,"body":"it's not necessarily just for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":310.11,"endTime":312.509,"body":"project delivery leads, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":312.509,"endTime":315.09000000000003,"body":"also it's that holistic view"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":312.509,"endTime":315.09000000000003,"body":"and like we start hearing so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":315.09000000000003,"endTime":317.85,"body":"much about it now, it almost"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":315.09000000000003,"endTime":317.85,"body":"begs the question like, how."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":317.85,"endTime":320.42999999999995,"body":"And I know folks under your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":317.85,"endTime":320.42999999999995,"body":"leadership and guidance get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":320.42999999999995,"endTime":323.03999999999996,"body":"the how and hopefully we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":320.42999999999995,"endTime":323.03999999999996,"body":"can steal some of that fire"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":323.03999999999996,"endTime":325.31899999999996,"body":"today in this conversation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":323.03999999999996,"endTime":325.31899999999996,"body":"because I think it's the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":325.31899999999996,"endTime":326.28,"body":"how that really matters."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":326.28,"endTime":326.649,"body":"Everyone's like, yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":326.90999999999997,"endTime":327.87,"body":"Understand the whole pie."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":328.009,"endTime":328.249,"body":"Pie."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":328.764,"endTime":330.475,"body":"But then it's like the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":328.764,"endTime":330.475,"body":"whole, like how do we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":330.475,"endTime":331.43499999999995,"body":"then mobilize that?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":331.43499999999995,"endTime":333.05499999999995,"body":"How does that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":331.43499999999995,"endTime":333.05499999999995,"body":"change our behavior?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":333.05499999999995,"endTime":335.18499999999995,"body":"How does that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":333.05499999999995,"endTime":335.18499999999995,"body":"give us better visibility"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":335.394,"endTime":336.29499999999996,"body":"for our own self?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":336.29499999999996,"endTime":338.095,"body":"And how does that help"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":336.29499999999996,"endTime":338.095,"body":"us advocate for ourselves"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":338.124,"endTime":339.235,"body":"within an organization?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":339.655,"endTime":339.95500000000004,"body":"Love it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":339.95500000000004,"endTime":340.19500000000005,"body":"Love it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":340.55499999999995,"endTime":340.91499999999996,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":340.975,"endTime":341.755,"body":"Solid panel."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":342.05499999999995,"endTime":343.735,"body":"Let's maybe just dive into it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":344.095,"endTime":347.995,"body":"Let me sort of tee up the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":344.095,"endTime":347.995,"body":"problem the way I see it, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":347.995,"endTime":349.31500000000005,"body":"then we can we can discuss."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":349.31500000000005,"endTime":351.124,"body":"So, here's the way I see it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":351.30499999999995,"endTime":353.735,"body":"Nurturing top performing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":351.30499999999995,"endTime":353.735,"body":"project leaders into more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":353.735,"endTime":356.615,"body":"strategic roles isn't always"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":353.735,"endTime":356.615,"body":"like top of mind, especially"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":356.615,"endTime":359.19399999999996,"body":"for like small and medium sized"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":356.615,"endTime":359.19399999999996,"body":"professional services firms."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":359.19399999999996,"endTime":361.29499999999996,"body":"We're talking agencies,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":359.19399999999996,"endTime":361.29499999999996,"body":"consulting firms."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":361.504,"endTime":363.095,"body":"It's kind of like just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":361.504,"endTime":363.095,"body":"like doing the work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":363.384,"endTime":367.19399999999996,"body":"But you know, mostly if"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":363.384,"endTime":367.19399999999996,"body":"sometimes the only way to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":367.19399999999996,"endTime":371.09400000000005,"body":"climb the ladder as a project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":367.19399999999996,"endTime":371.09400000000005,"body":"professional project manager is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":371.09400000000005,"endTime":374.754,"body":"to work hard, deliver results"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":371.09400000000005,"endTime":374.754,"body":"and trash talk that are equally"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":374.754,"endTime":377.21400000000006,"body":"ambitious colleagues and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":374.754,"endTime":377.21400000000006,"body":"advocate for their own growth at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":377.21400000000006,"endTime":378.745,"body":"every annual performance review."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":379.409,"endTime":382.019,"body":"These days, leadership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":379.409,"endTime":382.019,"body":"teams need all the strategic"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":382.019,"endTime":385.139,"body":"support that they can get,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":382.019,"endTime":385.139,"body":"and they all almost certainly"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":385.139,"endTime":388.11,"body":"have that unspoken echelon"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":385.139,"endTime":388.11,"body":"of top performing PMs that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":388.11,"endTime":390.509,"body":"have massive potential to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":388.11,"endTime":390.509,"body":"become bonafide leaders"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":390.509,"endTime":391.58900000000006,"body":"within their organization."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":391.86,"endTime":394.889,"body":"The only problem is that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":391.86,"endTime":394.889,"body":"the path from, say being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":394.889,"endTime":398.18899999999996,"body":"a project delivery lead or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":394.889,"endTime":398.18899999999996,"body":"department head to joining the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":398.18899999999996,"endTime":400.31899999999996,"body":"management team, or even just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":398.18899999999996,"endTime":400.31899999999996,"body":"playing a role in strategic"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":400.31899999999996,"endTime":402.05999999999995,"body":"planning is pretty murky."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":402.47900000000004,"endTime":405.36,"body":"Typically, there's no course"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":402.47900000000004,"endTime":405.36,"body":"or like rising stars or top"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":405.36,"endTime":408.59900000000005,"body":"talent programs at these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":405.36,"endTime":408.59900000000005,"body":"medium sized consulting firms."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":408.999,"endTime":411.54999999999995,"body":"It's still kind of like the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":408.999,"endTime":411.54999999999995,"body":"school of hard knocks, taking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":411.54999999999995,"endTime":413.89,"body":"a chance on someone and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":411.54999999999995,"endTime":413.89,"body":"speaking to them in a foreign"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":413.89,"endTime":416.98,"body":"language until they understand"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":413.89,"endTime":416.98,"body":"or maybe don't, but that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":416.98,"endTime":418.05999999999995,"body":"doesn't need to be the case."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":418.05999999999995,"endTime":419.14,"body":"At least I don't think so."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":419.379,"endTime":422.259,"body":"And frankly, most agencies"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":419.379,"endTime":422.259,"body":"and professional consulting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":422.259,"endTime":425.20000000000005,"body":"firms need to take action now"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":422.259,"endTime":425.20000000000005,"body":"to support their businesses."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":425.259,"endTime":428.02,"body":"So today we wanted"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":425.259,"endTime":428.02,"body":"to explore that path."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":428.245,"endTime":429.504,"body":"From three different angles."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":429.71400000000006,"endTime":432.745,"body":"As I mentioned earlier, we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":429.71400000000006,"endTime":432.745,"body":"wanna be thinking about how can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":432.745,"endTime":435.44399999999996,"body":"C-suite executives, like Mark,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":432.745,"endTime":435.44399999999996,"body":"within professional services"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":435.44399999999996,"endTime":439.19399999999996,"body":"firms benefit from additional"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":435.44399999999996,"endTime":439.19399999999996,"body":"strategic firepower by, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":439.19399999999996,"endTime":441.71400000000006,"body":"know, leveling up their high"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":439.19399999999996,"endTime":441.71400000000006,"body":"impact project professionals."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":442.014,"endTime":444.624,"body":"How can senior leaders play from"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":442.014,"endTime":444.624,"body":"the middle to drive that growth?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":444.95399999999995,"endTime":447.264,"body":"And of course, how can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":444.95399999999995,"endTime":447.264,"body":"ambitious project leaders do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":447.264,"endTime":449.995,"body":"more to carve out a path for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":447.264,"endTime":449.995,"body":"themselves so that they can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":449.995,"endTime":451.404,"body":"sit at the strategic table?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":451.95899999999995,"endTime":454.59900000000005,"body":"I thought maybe I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":451.95899999999995,"endTime":454.59900000000005,"body":"it in my spiel, but I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":454.59900000000005,"endTime":456.29999999999995,"body":"think it's worth talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":454.59900000000005,"endTime":456.29999999999995,"body":"about the question of now."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":456.36,"endTime":459.029,"body":"I think in my conversations"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":456.36,"endTime":459.029,"body":"there's always been that whole,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":459.029,"endTime":460.62,"body":"okay, well how can I level up?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":460.62,"endTime":462.48,"body":"How do I progress in my career?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":462.779,"endTime":464.30999999999995,"body":"I wanna be more strategic."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":464.30999999999995,"endTime":466.35,"body":"I wanna sit at the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":464.30999999999995,"endTime":466.35,"body":"strategic planning table."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":466.529,"endTime":469.04999999999995,"body":"And from the other side, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":466.529,"endTime":469.04999999999995,"body":"know, a leader saying, okay,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":469.04999999999995,"endTime":471.71900000000005,"body":"well listen, I wish folks"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":469.04999999999995,"endTime":471.71900000000005,"body":"were more ready to step up."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":471.99,"endTime":473.73,"body":"I wish they would engage"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":471.99,"endTime":473.73,"body":"more with the business."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":473.73,"endTime":475.74,"body":"I wish they'd understand"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":473.73,"endTime":475.74,"body":"how our business operates."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":476.115,"endTime":478.81399999999996,"body":"But there is this sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":476.115,"endTime":478.81399999999996,"body":"moment in time and so I thought"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":478.81399999999996,"endTime":481.635,"body":"I'd just ask the question,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":478.81399999999996,"endTime":481.635,"body":"why is it so important right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":481.635,"endTime":484.605,"body":"now for small and medium"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":481.635,"endTime":484.605,"body":"sized professional services"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":484.605,"endTime":488.265,"body":"firms to cultivate their top"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":484.605,"endTime":488.265,"body":"talent into business leaders?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":488.53499999999997,"endTime":490.365,"body":"And also what does"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":488.53499999999997,"endTime":490.365,"body":"that even look like?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":490.755,"endTime":491.475,"body":"Great question."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":491.655,"endTime":493.485,"body":"There's a lot going on"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":491.655,"endTime":493.485,"body":"right now in the market."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":493.485,"endTime":497.025,"body":"I feel like technology"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":493.485,"endTime":497.025,"body":"changes weekly or daily."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":497.07500000000005,"endTime":499.08500000000004,"body":"If you're keeping up with"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":497.07500000000005,"endTime":499.08500000000004,"body":"all the new tools that are"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":499.08500000000004,"endTime":500.495,"body":"leveraging AI and how they."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":500.9,"endTime":502.22,"body":"Change what's possible."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":502.54999999999995,"endTime":504.89,"body":"So there's just a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":502.54999999999995,"endTime":504.89,"body":"noise and a lot of complexity."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":505.18899999999996,"endTime":508.22,"body":"One of the things we found"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":505.18899999999996,"endTime":508.22,"body":"at Nexient was that for us to"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":508.22,"endTime":512.54,"body":"succeed, we really needed the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":508.22,"endTime":512.54,"body":"project manager to become a"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":512.54,"endTime":514.76,"body":"trusted partner of our client."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":515.15,"endTime":517.729,"body":"And that drove a lot"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":515.15,"endTime":517.729,"body":"of the new work we got."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":518.06,"endTime":523.145,"body":"And so we needed our project"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":518.06,"endTime":523.145,"body":"leads and account leads to"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":523.145,"endTime":526.955,"body":"be both deeply expert in"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":523.145,"endTime":526.955,"body":"delivery and sort of design"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":526.955,"endTime":530.795,"body":"and development of software,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":526.955,"endTime":530.795,"body":"but also willing to think like"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":530.795,"endTime":532.265,"body":"a salesperson at some level."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":532.265,"endTime":534.875,"body":"So they need to do sort of,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":532.265,"endTime":534.875,"body":"and these two things don't"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":534.875,"endTime":537.245,"body":"normally go to together"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":534.875,"endTime":537.245,"body":"in the same person, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":537.245,"endTime":539.045,"body":"It's usually you have"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":537.245,"endTime":539.045,"body":"one skill or the other,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":539.285,"endTime":541.295,"body":"and you almost, you know,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":539.285,"endTime":541.295,"body":"allergic to the other one."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":541.655,"endTime":547.3249999999999,"body":"So we wanted to get our"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":541.655,"endTime":547.3249999999999,"body":"best delivery people into"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":547.3249999999999,"endTime":549.785,"body":"selling mode and give"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":547.3249999999999,"endTime":549.785,"body":"them effectively a quota."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":550.175,"endTime":553.3249999999999,"body":"So we did that over a period"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":550.175,"endTime":553.3249999999999,"body":"of many years with them as"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":553.535,"endTime":557.4649999999999,"body":"they became the senior manager"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":553.535,"endTime":557.4649999999999,"body":"or the account director on"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":557.4649999999999,"endTime":561.665,"body":"an account, they would start"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":557.4649999999999,"endTime":561.665,"body":"out by finding opportunities"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":561.665,"endTime":564.845,"body":"for new things, new projects,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":561.665,"endTime":564.845,"body":"and then handing them off to"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":564.845,"endTime":567.605,"body":"a client partner who was much"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":564.845,"endTime":567.605,"body":"more comfortable selling."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":567.935,"endTime":570.005,"body":"But over time, we wanted"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":567.935,"endTime":570.005,"body":"them to go up that curve and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":570.005,"endTime":571.685,"body":"become comfortable themselves."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":572.0749999999999,"endTime":572.675,"body":"I really like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":573.7239999999999,"endTime":576.0649999999999,"body":"I'm revisiting my past here"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":573.7239999999999,"endTime":576.0649999999999,"body":"because I've always been a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":576.0649999999999,"endTime":579.6949999999999,"body":"hybrid, and yes, it has always"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":576.0649999999999,"endTime":579.6949999999999,"body":"been smuggle and golum, like two"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":579.6949999999999,"endTime":581.794,"body":"different perspectives fighting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":579.6949999999999,"endTime":581.794,"body":"one another in my brain."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":582.0939999999999,"endTime":585.425,"body":"What's interesting is I hear a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":582.0939999999999,"endTime":585.425,"body":"lot about going that way, right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":585.425,"endTime":588.124,"body":"Project delivery leads,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":585.425,"endTime":588.124,"body":"project managers being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":588.124,"endTime":589.2049999999999,"body":"encouraged to sell."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":589.534,"endTime":591.7239999999999,"body":"Have you had it happen"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":589.534,"endTime":591.7239999999999,"body":"in reverse, like account"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":591.7239999999999,"endTime":593.795,"body":"managers becoming project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":591.7239999999999,"endTime":593.795,"body":"managers, is that something"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":593.795,"endTime":595.144,"body":"that happens would happen?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":595.144,"endTime":597.754,"body":"Or is there something that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":595.144,"endTime":597.754,"body":"actually a quality of project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":597.754,"endTime":601.685,"body":"managers that sort of lends"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":597.754,"endTime":601.685,"body":"itself to being really good"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":601.685,"endTime":603.2149999999999,"body":"at sales Or vice versa?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":603.244,"endTime":604.774,"body":"Is there actually some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":603.244,"endTime":604.774,"body":"qualities of an account"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":604.774,"endTime":606.754,"body":"manager that makes them good"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":604.774,"endTime":606.754,"body":"project delivery leads if you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":606.754,"endTime":607.685,"body":"were to sort of hybridize."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":608.2149999999999,"endTime":610.9449999999999,"body":"Yeah, I've seen,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":608.2149999999999,"endTime":610.9449999999999,"body":"so one of the things that we"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":611.185,"endTime":614.7239999999999,"body":"pitched a lot at Nexient was"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":611.185,"endTime":614.7239999999999,"body":"this idea of a growth mindset."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":615.055,"endTime":617.875,"body":"That pretty much anyone can do"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":615.055,"endTime":617.875,"body":"anything if they're willing to"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":617.935,"endTime":620.755,"body":"be humble and sort of do all the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":617.935,"endTime":620.755,"body":"practice and learn, and you're"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":620.755,"endTime":623.005,"body":"bad in the beginning, but you"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":620.755,"endTime":623.005,"body":"can learn pretty much anything."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":623.365,"endTime":626.635,"body":"And so based on that, we"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":623.365,"endTime":626.635,"body":"had some peer sales people"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":627.0849999999999,"endTime":629.4549999999999,"body":"come in and say, I wanna"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":627.0849999999999,"endTime":629.4549999999999,"body":"write a statement of work."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":629.875,"endTime":633.175,"body":"I wanna write a proposal, I"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":629.875,"endTime":633.175,"body":"wanna think about project scope."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":633.68,"endTime":636.2289999999999,"body":"Not because I wanna become"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":633.68,"endTime":636.2289999999999,"body":"a practitioner, but because"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":636.2289999999999,"endTime":638.5699999999999,"body":"I wanna understand it and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":636.2289999999999,"endTime":638.5699999999999,"body":"I wanna experience it."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":638.5699999999999,"endTime":639.769,"body":"And to me, that"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":638.5699999999999,"endTime":639.769,"body":"was awesome, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":639.869,"endTime":643.02,"body":"They just became so much"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":639.869,"endTime":643.02,"body":"better at selling because they"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":643.02,"endTime":645.51,"body":"wanted to dig into some of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":643.02,"endTime":645.51,"body":"the project management work."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":645.93,"endTime":646.65,"body":"I loved that."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":646.89,"endTime":648.9599999999999,"body":"That kind of surprised me"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":646.89,"endTime":648.9599999999999,"body":"at the time, to be honest."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":648.9599999999999,"endTime":651.2389999999999,"body":"I've seen a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":648.9599999999999,"endTime":651.2389999999999,"body":"practitioners move into selling."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":651.2389999999999,"endTime":653.43,"body":"I hadn't seen that"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":651.2389999999999,"endTime":653.43,"body":"many salespeople move"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":653.43,"endTime":654.5699999999999,"body":"into practitioners."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":654.9,"endTime":656.9499999999999,"body":"I like that tie in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":654.9,"endTime":656.9499999999999,"body":"of the growth mindset, or as Pam"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":656.9689999999999,"endTime":659.76,"body":"put it, understanding the whole"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":656.9689999999999,"endTime":659.76,"body":"pie, you know, I think is the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":659.76,"endTime":661.77,"body":"sort of thematic tie in here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":662.25,"endTime":663.0,"body":"Pam, how about you?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":663.0,"endTime":665.43,"body":"Like I know you and I, we've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":663.0,"endTime":665.43,"body":"talked a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":665.43,"endTime":666.9,"body":"hybrid roles over the years."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":667.23,"endTime":669.93,"body":"We've started seeing a trend"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":667.23,"endTime":669.93,"body":"more, or at least maybe it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":669.93,"endTime":671.8199999999999,"body":"one of those things where you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":669.93,"endTime":671.8199999999999,"body":"like, you're thinking of buying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":671.8199999999999,"endTime":673.77,"body":"a yellow car and suddenly you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":671.8199999999999,"endTime":673.77,"body":"see yellow car as everywhere."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":673.77,"endTime":677.64,"body":"I don't know, but are you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":673.77,"endTime":677.64,"body":"noticing more hybridization?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":677.6999999999999,"endTime":680.85,"body":"Are you noticing a greater"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":677.6999999999999,"endTime":680.85,"body":"emphasis on almost this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":680.85,"endTime":683.0699999999999,"body":"like commerciality, this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":680.85,"endTime":683.0699999999999,"body":"commercial understanding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":683.3399999999999,"endTime":684.27,"body":"for delivery leads?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":684.27,"endTime":685.47,"body":"Like across the board?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":686.29,"endTime":686.74,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":687.01,"endTime":688.9599999999999,"body":"I mean, I think part of it is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":687.01,"endTime":688.9599999999999,"body":"like control the things you"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":688.9599999999999,"endTime":691.12,"body":"can control perspective, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":691.525,"endTime":696.0849999999999,"body":"And so for project leads for"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":691.525,"endTime":696.0849999999999,"body":"folks in delivery, I know"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":696.0849999999999,"endTime":699.0849999999999,"body":"we're not at the metrics part"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":696.0849999999999,"endTime":699.0849999999999,"body":"and spoiler, this one won't be"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":699.0849999999999,"endTime":700.7049999999999,"body":"on there anyway, so I'm just"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":699.0849999999999,"endTime":700.7049999999999,"body":"gonna introduce a new one."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":701.035,"endTime":703.645,"body":"Client retention and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":701.035,"endTime":703.645,"body":"reducing attrition is one"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":703.645,"endTime":705.3249999999999,"body":"of the biggest things that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":703.645,"endTime":705.3249999999999,"body":"we can control, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":705.655,"endTime":708.595,"body":"Which directly impacts"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":705.655,"endTime":708.595,"body":"the bottom line."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":708.625,"endTime":710.755,"body":"Our revenue to Mark's point."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":711.115,"endTime":712.795,"body":"He actually started"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":711.115,"endTime":712.795,"body":"giving revenue targets and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":712.795,"endTime":714.895,"body":"giving delivery leads and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":712.795,"endTime":714.895,"body":"project managers a go get."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":715.225,"endTime":718.375,"body":"The easiest way to do that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":715.225,"endTime":718.375,"body":"is through delivery and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":718.375,"endTime":722.125,"body":"through retaining clients"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":718.375,"endTime":722.125,"body":"year over year, and you"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":722.125,"endTime":724.555,"body":"can't do that without a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":722.125,"endTime":724.555,"body":"growth mindset, without some"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":724.555,"endTime":725.5749999999999,"body":"account management skills."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":725.92,"endTime":729.43,"body":"So yeah, we're absolutely"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":725.92,"endTime":729.43,"body":"seeing that kind of more"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":729.67,"endTime":733.72,"body":"accountability or responsibility"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":729.67,"endTime":733.72,"body":"in revenue targets in growing"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":733.72,"endTime":736.93,"body":"the business, in having a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":733.72,"endTime":736.93,"body":"stake in client retention"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":736.93,"endTime":738.04,"body":"and reducing attrition."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":738.43,"endTime":741.1899999999999,"body":"We're also seeing when we're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":738.43,"endTime":741.1899999999999,"body":"talking about hybrid roles,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":741.1899999999999,"endTime":743.89,"body":"not just project management,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":741.1899999999999,"endTime":743.89,"body":"account management hybrids,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":743.89,"endTime":747.85,"body":"I think that's a piece of, or"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":743.89,"endTime":747.85,"body":"maybe a result of some other"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":747.85,"endTime":750.91,"body":"roles becoming more hybrid"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":747.85,"endTime":750.91,"body":"like client partners and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":750.91,"endTime":753.55,"body":"strategists are starting to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":750.91,"endTime":753.55,"body":"be a little bit more hybrid."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":753.9399999999999,"endTime":755.9689999999999,"body":"We're starting to be a little"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":753.9399999999999,"endTime":755.9689999999999,"body":"bit more nimble in other"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":755.9689999999999,"endTime":759.149,"body":"areas of the business, which"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":755.9689999999999,"endTime":759.149,"body":"then trickles down to project"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":759.149,"endTime":761.04,"body":"management needing to be a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":759.149,"endTime":761.04,"body":"little bit more nimble as well."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":761.04,"endTime":761.369,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":761.369,"endTime":765.03,"body":"So I think there's definitely"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":761.369,"endTime":765.03,"body":"some hybrid stuff happening"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":765.03,"endTime":768.4499999999999,"body":"and just more generalization"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":765.03,"endTime":768.4499999999999,"body":"around capabilities regarding"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":768.4499999999999,"endTime":769.41,"body":"both growth and delivery."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":769.8299999999999,"endTime":770.399,"body":"Oh, I like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":770.399,"endTime":773.5799999999999,"body":"I think some project people,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":770.399,"endTime":773.5799999999999,"body":"PMs specifically, don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":773.5799999999999,"endTime":776.279,"body":"always fully appreciate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":773.5799999999999,"endTime":776.279,"body":"that they are, in some ways"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":776.279,"endTime":779.55,"body":"the economic engine for a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":776.279,"endTime":779.55,"body":"professional services firm,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":779.55,"endTime":782.279,"body":"like an agency or consultancy,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":779.55,"endTime":782.279,"body":"those projects drive dollars"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":782.519,"endTime":784.5899999999999,"body":"and those relationships"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":782.519,"endTime":784.5899999999999,"body":"continue to drive dollars."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":784.5899999999999,"endTime":786.149,"body":"And so there is that sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":784.5899999999999,"endTime":786.149,"body":"of relationship there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":786.749,"endTime":789.899,"body":"Diana was saying, I'm also"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":786.749,"endTime":789.899,"body":"seeing due to staff reduction,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":789.899,"endTime":792.81,"body":"that PMs are expected to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":789.899,"endTime":792.81,"body":"just become client facing,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":792.81,"endTime":794.04,"body":"to become the account lead."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":794.399,"endTime":796.889,"body":"And I thought maybe I'd get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":794.399,"endTime":796.889,"body":"the two of your perspectives"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":796.889,"endTime":798.509,"body":"on that because in some ways."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":799.019,"endTime":801.18,"body":"It does really feel that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":799.019,"endTime":801.18,"body":"way, and maybe it is the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":801.18,"endTime":803.79,"body":"case where it's like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":801.18,"endTime":803.79,"body":"listen, margins are thinner."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":803.79,"endTime":805.1999999999999,"body":"We need people doing more."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":805.41,"endTime":808.769,"body":"You know, there's the AI"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":805.41,"endTime":808.769,"body":"sort of variable here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":808.9499999999999,"endTime":810.749,"body":"It's like, do we need"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":808.9499999999999,"endTime":810.749,"body":"to hire more people or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":810.749,"endTime":812.8199999999999,"body":"actually can we just get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":810.749,"endTime":812.8199999999999,"body":"people to do more things?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":813.2099999999999,"endTime":816.9889999999999,"body":"Is that a driver or is it more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":813.2099999999999,"endTime":816.9889999999999,"body":"pure play in terms of like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":816.9889999999999,"endTime":818.31,"body":"that cohesion of delivery?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":818.67,"endTime":820.29,"body":"Probably the true slide"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":818.67,"endTime":820.29,"body":"somewhere in between."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":821.399,"endTime":822.7189999999999,"body":"Mark, what's your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":821.399,"endTime":822.7189999999999,"body":"perspective on that?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":823.619,"endTime":824.3399999999999,"body":"A couple things."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":824.91,"endTime":827.31,"body":"Services firms are"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":824.91,"endTime":827.31,"body":"so much easier to run"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":827.31,"endTime":828.03,"body":"when you're growing."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":828.3299999999999,"endTime":831.15,"body":"If you are adding clients"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":828.3299999999999,"endTime":831.15,"body":"and adding projects, then"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":831.15,"endTime":833.9689999999999,"body":"there's opportunity for"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":831.15,"endTime":833.9689999999999,"body":"everybody to get promoted."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":833.9689999999999,"endTime":834.749,"body":"There's, you're right."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":834.779,"endTime":838.2289999999999,"body":"And if they're flat or"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":834.779,"endTime":838.2289999999999,"body":"shrinking, it's really painful."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":838.559,"endTime":840.899,"body":"All these things come outta the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":838.559,"endTime":840.899,"body":"woodwork that are problematic."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":841.3489999999999,"endTime":844.8299999999999,"body":"And so for me, the, we kinda,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":841.3489999999999,"endTime":844.8299999999999,"body":"I feel like I stalled this"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":844.8299999999999,"endTime":846.7189999999999,"body":"model from eccentric 'cause"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":844.8299999999999,"endTime":846.7189999999999,"body":"that's where I started."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":847.0799999999999,"endTime":850.8,"body":"But this idea of account"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":847.0799999999999,"endTime":850.8,"body":"leads who are practitioners"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":850.8,"endTime":853.17,"body":"who get to work so of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":850.8,"endTime":853.17,"body":"the holy grail happened."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":853.17,"endTime":856.499,"body":"And one of our clients, it"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":853.17,"endTime":856.499,"body":"was a large utility, gas and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":856.499,"endTime":859.9499999999999,"body":"electric utility, so lots of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":856.499,"endTime":859.9499999999999,"body":"money, and they got to the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":859.9499999999999,"endTime":862.5899999999999,"body":"point where they pulled our"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":859.9499999999999,"endTime":862.5899999999999,"body":"project lead into their annual"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":862.5899999999999,"endTime":866.28,"body":"budgeting process and they would"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":862.5899999999999,"endTime":866.28,"body":"show us the list of all of the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":866.28,"endTime":867.7189999999999,"body":"projects for the next year."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":868.0799999999999,"endTime":870.119,"body":"This one's 10 million,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":868.0799999999999,"endTime":870.119,"body":"this one's 20 million,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":870.119,"endTime":871.199,"body":"this one's 5 million."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":871.1999999999999,"endTime":872.9689999999999,"body":"And say, what do you think?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":873.3589999999999,"endTime":874.77,"body":"Which ones do you wanna bid on?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":875.0699999999999,"endTime":877.0799999999999,"body":"Can you help us write the RFPs?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":877.1089999999999,"endTime":877.3489999999999,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":877.3489999999999,"endTime":880.56,"body":"And that to me was like, they"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":877.3489999999999,"endTime":880.56,"body":"did that, not because she was"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":880.56,"endTime":883.26,"body":"such a great salesperson, but"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":880.56,"endTime":883.26,"body":"because she was such a great"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":883.26,"endTime":885.869,"body":"practitioner, they trusted"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":883.26,"endTime":885.869,"body":"her as part of the team."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":886.38,"endTime":889.02,"body":"But if you're selling, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":886.38,"endTime":889.02,"body":"that's like the holy grail."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":889.02,"endTime":890.9399999999999,"body":"They're like, here's"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":889.02,"endTime":890.9399999999999,"body":"these buckets of money,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":890.9399999999999,"endTime":891.885,"body":"which one do you want?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":891.885,"endTime":893.0699999999999,"body":"And how do you wanna frame them?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":893.43,"endTime":896.3399999999999,"body":"That to me is what you're trying"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":893.43,"endTime":896.3399999999999,"body":"to do is get the two to come"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":896.3399999999999,"endTime":897.5699999999999,"body":"together in a really good way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":898.02,"endTime":898.53,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":898.8,"endTime":901.4689999999999,"body":"Pam, you gave it a this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":898.8,"endTime":901.4689999999999,"body":"in terms of growth."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":902.009,"endTime":902.6089999999999,"body":"I did."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":902.639,"endTime":905.0989999999999,"body":"Listen, everything is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":902.639,"endTime":905.0989999999999,"body":"easier when you're making"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":905.0989999999999,"endTime":906.059,"body":"noodles of money, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":906.419,"endTime":909.269,"body":"But I don't think it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":906.419,"endTime":909.269,"body":"ever a bad thing to have"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":909.269,"endTime":911.549,"body":"a project manager of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":909.269,"endTime":911.549,"body":"client facing skills ever."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":912.029,"endTime":915.029,"body":"When we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":912.029,"endTime":915.029,"body":"growing our future leaders"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":915.059,"endTime":918.2389999999999,"body":"and cultivating our"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":915.059,"endTime":918.2389999999999,"body":"future leadership talent,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":918.629,"endTime":920.909,"body":"client facing comes with"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":918.629,"endTime":920.909,"body":"that territory, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":921.449,"endTime":922.709,"body":"I talk to clients every day."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":923.0989999999999,"endTime":924.389,"body":"I don't lead a single account."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":924.899,"endTime":926.759,"body":"And so you have to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":924.899,"endTime":926.759,"body":"have that skillset."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":926.759,"endTime":929.4889999999999,"body":"And so I think learning it"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":926.759,"endTime":929.4889999999999,"body":"early is never a bad thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":929.925,"endTime":931.7239999999999,"body":"I concur and then"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":929.925,"endTime":931.7239999999999,"body":"actually like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":931.7239999999999,"endTime":934.425,"body":"Mark, you're taking me back to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":931.7239999999999,"endTime":934.425,"body":"the my Accenture days where,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":934.4549999999999,"endTime":936.884,"body":"you know, like walking the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":934.4549999999999,"endTime":936.884,"body":"halls is a skill and what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":936.884,"endTime":939.7049999999999,"body":"we mean is like go on client"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":936.884,"endTime":939.7049999999999,"body":"site and while you're there,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":939.7339999999999,"endTime":942.134,"body":"look for opportunities for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":939.7339999999999,"endTime":942.134,"body":"us to sell more through."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":942.494,"endTime":943.514,"body":"There's two ways"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":942.494,"endTime":943.514,"body":"to look at that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":943.514,"endTime":945.675,"body":"There's the icky way, you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":943.514,"endTime":945.675,"body":"like, oh, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":945.675,"endTime":948.254,"body":"like, I'm a salesperson"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":945.675,"endTime":948.254,"body":"now and we need to like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":948.254,"endTime":951.5849999999999,"body":"give into capitalistic"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":948.254,"endTime":951.5849999999999,"body":"greed, which is not untrue."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":951.904,"endTime":954.184,"body":"But also that hand"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":951.904,"endTime":954.184,"body":"on the lever thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":954.2139999999999,"endTime":954.514,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":954.754,"endTime":957.574,"body":"And I think a lot of the time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":954.754,"endTime":957.574,"body":"I talk to project managers"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":957.574,"endTime":960.274,"body":"who are like, oh, we just get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":957.574,"endTime":960.274,"body":"past the scope of work and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":960.274,"endTime":961.324,"body":"are expected to deliver it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":961.324,"endTime":963.7239999999999,"body":"Like we're never consultant"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":961.324,"endTime":963.7239999999999,"body":"during sales, you know, of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":963.7239999999999,"endTime":964.804,"body":"course it's unrealistic."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":964.804,"endTime":966.334,"body":"They haven't asked us"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":964.804,"endTime":966.334,"body":"to come to the table."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":966.6039999999999,"endTime":967.024,"body":"Well, guess what?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":967.024,"endTime":969.424,"body":"Those two things, those are two"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":967.024,"endTime":969.424,"body":"puzzle pieces that fit together,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":969.664,"endTime":972.004,"body":"is if you are, quote unquote,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":969.664,"endTime":972.004,"body":"walking the halls or client"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":972.004,"endTime":974.425,"body":"facing, A, Pam, to your point,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":972.004,"endTime":974.425,"body":"you're like learning those"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":974.425,"endTime":977.305,"body":"skills when it's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":974.425,"endTime":977.305,"body":"your job, which by the way is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":977.305,"endTime":979.9739999999999,"body":"great because then you're also"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":977.305,"endTime":979.9739999999999,"body":"not necessarily measured on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":979.9739999999999,"endTime":980.935,"body":"that while you're learning."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":981.2339999999999,"endTime":984.145,"body":"But also you have your hand on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":981.2339999999999,"endTime":984.145,"body":"one of the growth levers, maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":984.145,"endTime":985.3149999999999,"body":"not the growth lever, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":985.3149999999999,"endTime":988.165,"body":"You're not choosing whether or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":985.3149999999999,"endTime":988.165,"body":"not to give up lease hold space."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":988.405,"endTime":990.3249999999999,"body":"You're not choosing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":988.405,"endTime":990.3249999999999,"body":"what the rates are."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":990.3249999999999,"endTime":992.935,"body":"You're not necessarily like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":990.3249999999999,"endTime":992.935,"body":"picking and choosing, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":992.935,"endTime":994.255,"body":"know, which staff to keep on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":994.794,"endTime":997.284,"body":"You have your hand on one of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":994.794,"endTime":997.284,"body":"the levers that drives revenue,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":997.284,"endTime":1001.0939999999999,"body":"and then the ideal vision"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":997.284,"endTime":1001.0939999999999,"body":"is everyone is like pushing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1001.0939999999999,"endTime":1003.794,"body":"towards that growth so that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1001.0939999999999,"endTime":1003.794,"body":"it's like prosperous times."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1003.794,"endTime":1006.644,"body":"Because Mark, to your point,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1003.794,"endTime":1006.644,"body":"like not prosperous times in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1006.644,"endTime":1008.5939999999999,"body":"professional services is pain."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1009.074,"endTime":1011.834,"body":"And I think if you guys"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1009.074,"endTime":1011.834,"body":"will let me, maybe let's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1011.834,"endTime":1015.014,"body":"just use those two lenses"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1011.834,"endTime":1015.014,"body":"because I wanted to dive in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1015.014,"endTime":1016.209,"body":"Pam to what you're saying."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1016.895,"endTime":1018.2149999999999,"body":"The skill sets and the signals."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1018.2149999999999,"endTime":1021.3349999999999,"body":"Mark, we've been talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1018.2149999999999,"endTime":1021.3349999999999,"body":"the growth mindset, and I'll"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1021.3349999999999,"endTime":1024.484,"body":"put a optimistic and slightly"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1021.3349999999999,"endTime":1024.484,"body":"pessimistic spin on this,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1024.874,"endTime":1026.315,"body":"and what I'm gonna say is."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1026.84,"endTime":1030.979,"body":"If you wanna be the one who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1026.84,"endTime":1030.979,"body":"gets promoted and stays in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1030.979,"endTime":1034.31,"body":"a time of relative hardship,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1030.979,"endTime":1034.31,"body":"not necessarily prosperous"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1034.31,"endTime":1038.57,"body":"growth, but also from a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1034.31,"endTime":1038.57,"body":"more positive light, how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1038.57,"endTime":1041.6290000000001,"body":"can one sort of develop"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1038.57,"endTime":1041.6290000000001,"body":"their career in any climate?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1042.02,"endTime":1046.22,"body":"But what I wanted to ask was"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1042.02,"endTime":1046.22,"body":"what signals are leaders looking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1046.22,"endTime":1048.889,"body":"for when they're deciding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1046.22,"endTime":1048.889,"body":"who is ready to step up?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1049.744,"endTime":1052.145,"body":"What can project delivery"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1049.744,"endTime":1052.145,"body":"leads do to stand out, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1052.145,"endTime":1054.575,"body":"know, in prosperous times"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1052.145,"endTime":1054.575,"body":"or in times of hardship?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1054.7839999999999,"endTime":1056.465,"body":"You know, maybe you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1054.7839999999999,"endTime":1056.465,"body":"in survival mode."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1056.764,"endTime":1058.835,"body":"Maybe you're just happy"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1056.764,"endTime":1058.835,"body":"go lucky, growing your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1058.835,"endTime":1059.945,"body":"career, that's fine too."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1060.125,"endTime":1062.014,"body":"But I think coming back to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1060.125,"endTime":1062.014,"body":"what I said originally, like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1062.0439999999999,"endTime":1064.715,"body":"it's sometimes really gray,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1062.0439999999999,"endTime":1064.715,"body":"but I haven't met a single"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1064.715,"endTime":1068.165,"body":"leadership team yet that doesn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1064.715,"endTime":1068.165,"body":"have that group in mind going."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1068.165,"endTime":1069.815,"body":"That person's like almost ready."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1070.085,"endTime":1071.585,"body":"It's not like written"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1070.085,"endTime":1071.585,"body":"down anywhere."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1071.585,"endTime":1074.135,"body":"There's no like list"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1071.585,"endTime":1074.135,"body":"in the cafeteria, like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1074.165,"endTime":1075.065,"body":"the break room wall."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1075.065,"endTime":1077.2839999999999,"body":"It says if you want to get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1075.065,"endTime":1077.2839999999999,"body":"promoted, do these seven things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1077.2839999999999,"endTime":1078.305,"body":"Like it's kind of gray."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1078.954,"endTime":1080.634,"body":"Pam, what do you look for?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1080.634,"endTime":1083.414,"body":"What do you think leaders"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1080.634,"endTime":1083.414,"body":"ought to look for folks who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1083.414,"endTime":1085.094,"body":"are ready to kind of level up?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1085.634,"endTime":1087.404,"body":"I think there's"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1085.634,"endTime":1087.404,"body":"really two things for me, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1087.404,"endTime":1091.114,"body":"they're gonna seem very general"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1087.404,"endTime":1091.114,"body":"and a little bit lack in tact,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1091.144,"endTime":1093.064,"body":"if you will, but let me explain."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1093.424,"endTime":1097.024,"body":"The first one is folks who"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1093.424,"endTime":1097.024,"body":"are ready to step up, stop"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1097.024,"endTime":1097.649,"body":"asking, what about me?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1098.2939999999999,"endTime":1101.354,"body":"And it used to be, again,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1098.2939999999999,"endTime":1101.354,"body":"this is a trend kind of 10"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1101.354,"endTime":1103.694,"body":"years ago, the folks that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1101.354,"endTime":1103.694,"body":"I was promoting were the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1103.694,"endTime":1106.874,"body":"ones who fiercely defended"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1103.694,"endTime":1106.874,"body":"their projects and didn't"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1106.874,"endTime":1109.094,"body":"care what it meant to other"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1106.874,"endTime":1109.094,"body":"projects or other accounts."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1109.094,"endTime":1111.524,"body":"They delivered what they"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1109.094,"endTime":1111.524,"body":"needed to deliver and right."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1111.524,"endTime":1114.0439999999999,"body":"They were good soldiers and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1111.524,"endTime":1114.0439999999999,"body":"they did what they needed"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1114.0439999999999,"endTime":1116.384,"body":"to do in order to deliver"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1114.0439999999999,"endTime":1116.384,"body":"again, their slice of the pie."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1116.714,"endTime":1119.324,"body":"Now, that is not the name of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1116.714,"endTime":1119.324,"body":"the game anymore right now."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1119.664,"endTime":1122.424,"body":"If you need something for"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1119.664,"endTime":1122.424,"body":"your project or your slice"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1122.424,"endTime":1125.124,"body":"of the pie, again, you are"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1122.424,"endTime":1125.124,"body":"understanding how that impacts"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1125.124,"endTime":1126.984,"body":"everybody else and you're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1125.124,"endTime":1126.984,"body":"working towards solutions."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1127.014,"endTime":1127.314,"body":"Okay?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1127.314,"endTime":1129.864,"body":"So it's not, what about"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1127.314,"endTime":1129.864,"body":"me, it's what about us?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1130.164,"endTime":1131.154,"body":"How are we, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1131.154,"endTime":1134.5439999999999,"body":"The people who are ready to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1131.154,"endTime":1134.5439999999999,"body":"step up are the ones who care"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1134.5439999999999,"endTime":1137.364,"body":"about the impacts to the rest"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1134.5439999999999,"endTime":1137.364,"body":"of the organization, care about"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1137.364,"endTime":1140.7839999999999,"body":"how the work that they're doing"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1137.364,"endTime":1140.7839999999999,"body":"affects other people or other"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1140.7839999999999,"endTime":1143.844,"body":"accounts or other teammates,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1140.7839999999999,"endTime":1143.844,"body":"and they're looking out kind"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1143.844,"endTime":1144.624,"body":"of for the greater good."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1145.014,"endTime":1147.354,"body":"The second thing is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1145.014,"endTime":1147.354,"body":"reading the room."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1147.9289999999999,"endTime":1152.1589999999999,"body":"Again, to Mark's point,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1147.9289999999999,"endTime":1152.1589999999999,"body":"if business is not great,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1152.4289999999999,"endTime":1153.689,"body":"don't ask for the moon."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1154.094,"endTime":1154.395,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1154.395,"endTime":1156.885,"body":"If your organization's having"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1154.395,"endTime":1156.885,"body":"a hard time and you're not"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1157.155,"endTime":1160.335,"body":"meeting your numbers, then you"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1157.155,"endTime":1160.335,"body":"just need, like, revenue is more"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1160.335,"endTime":1161.595,"body":"important than margin right now."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1161.595,"endTime":1164.5049999999999,"body":"You need to understand that,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1161.595,"endTime":1164.5049999999999,"body":"and you need to be okay"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1164.745,"endTime":1166.245,"body":"with discounting strategies."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1166.245,"endTime":1168.2549999999999,"body":"You need to understand"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1166.245,"endTime":1168.2549999999999,"body":"when those are appropriate"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1168.2549999999999,"endTime":1169.2749999999999,"body":"and not fight back."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1169.545,"endTime":1172.635,"body":"So again, it's kind of a what"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1169.545,"endTime":1172.635,"body":"about us mentality there,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1172.635,"endTime":1175.695,"body":"but read the room, understand"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1172.635,"endTime":1175.695,"body":"the temperature of the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1175.695,"endTime":1177.645,"body":"leadership team, understand"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1175.695,"endTime":1177.645,"body":"the temperature of the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1177.645,"endTime":1180.945,"body":"organization and how you can"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1177.645,"endTime":1180.945,"body":"impact that in a positive way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1181.455,"endTime":1181.995,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1182.2649999999999,"endTime":1184.094,"body":"I want to go back there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1182.2649999999999,"endTime":1184.094,"body":"eventually, 'cause something you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1184.094,"endTime":1186.584,"body":"said, you tucked it in there,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1184.094,"endTime":1186.584,"body":"you're like, revenue is more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1186.584,"endTime":1188.445,"body":"important than margin sometimes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1188.8039999999999,"endTime":1191.114,"body":"That's one of the things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1188.8039999999999,"endTime":1191.114,"body":"that I, for me, it was"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1191.114,"endTime":1192.0439999999999,"body":"brain breaking, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1192.2839999999999,"endTime":1196.064,"body":"So like, you know, cash flow"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1192.2839999999999,"endTime":1196.064,"body":"versus like mega profit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1196.364,"endTime":1198.0439999999999,"body":"Anyways, we'll get there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1196.364,"endTime":1198.0439999999999,"body":"eventually because I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1198.0439999999999,"endTime":1198.7649999999999,"body":"it's one of those things that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1199.114,"endTime":1200.7939999999999,"body":"Each person looks at it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1199.114,"endTime":1200.7939999999999,"body":"a little bit differently."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1200.914,"endTime":1202.684,"body":"And Pam, to your point, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1200.914,"endTime":1202.684,"body":"know, you could be a good"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1202.684,"endTime":1205.954,"body":"individual contributor, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1202.684,"endTime":1205.954,"body":"really it's kind of like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1205.954,"endTime":1208.324,"body":"zooming out and being able"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1205.954,"endTime":1208.324,"body":"to a, see that whole pie and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1208.324,"endTime":1209.5539999999999,"body":"the pie came back and Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1209.854,"endTime":1210.61,"body":"I'm so hungry."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1211.329,"endTime":1211.61,"body":"I know."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1211.61,"endTime":1213.394,"body":"Like, we should have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1211.61,"endTime":1213.394,"body":"eaten breakfast, Pam."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1216.154,"endTime":1217.324,"body":"Mark, does that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1216.154,"endTime":1217.324,"body":"resonate with you?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1217.324,"endTime":1218.7939999999999,"body":"And like, you know, yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1219.154,"endTime":1220.5049999999999,"body":"You know, promoted the chain."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1220.5049999999999,"endTime":1221.944,"body":"Like what are the signals"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1220.5049999999999,"endTime":1221.944,"body":"that you look for?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1222.245,"endTime":1223.2649999999999,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1222.245,"endTime":1223.2649999999999,"body":"a couple things."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1223.709,"endTime":1224.8799999999999,"body":"One is mindset."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1225.0,"endTime":1228.6,"body":"So it's really things are"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1225.0,"endTime":1228.6,"body":"not gonna go well and how"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1228.6,"endTime":1229.469,"body":"are they gonna handle it?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1229.77,"endTime":1231.959,"body":"How do they handle challenges?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1231.959,"endTime":1234.57,"body":"Because it's, most people that"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1231.959,"endTime":1234.57,"body":"have been involved in client"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1234.57,"endTime":1237.09,"body":"projects know there's like"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1234.57,"endTime":1237.09,"body":"just challenge after challenge."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1237.09,"endTime":1238.59,"body":"And you have to be resilient."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1238.59,"endTime":1240.449,"body":"You have to be creative,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1238.59,"endTime":1240.449,"body":"you have to be willing to"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1240.449,"endTime":1241.86,"body":"learn from it and get better."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1242.1589999999999,"endTime":1245.1299999999999,"body":"And I think the best leaders"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1242.1589999999999,"endTime":1245.1299999999999,"body":"demonstrate that over and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1245.1299999999999,"endTime":1248.82,"body":"over again, and they're ready"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1245.1299999999999,"endTime":1248.82,"body":"for whatever comes their way."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1249.269,"endTime":1251.9089999999999,"body":"My second one, I was gonna"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1249.269,"endTime":1251.9089999999999,"body":"say is I think kind of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1251.9089999999999,"endTime":1254.37,"body":"goes along with Pam's read"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1251.9089999999999,"endTime":1254.37,"body":"the room, which is, I was"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1254.37,"endTime":1255.449,"body":"gonna say really high EQ."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1256.019,"endTime":1259.59,"body":"You want people who really"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1256.019,"endTime":1259.59,"body":"are empathetic to the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1259.59,"endTime":1262.8,"body":"client, and specifically"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1259.59,"endTime":1262.8,"body":"to the client's business"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1262.8,"endTime":1264.1499999999999,"body":"and how it operates, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1264.1499999999999,"endTime":1267.6,"body":"So have an understanding of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1264.1499999999999,"endTime":1267.6,"body":"how the client makes money,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1267.9289999999999,"endTime":1270.124,"body":"what's good for their business,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1267.9289999999999,"endTime":1270.124,"body":"what's bad for their business."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1270.754,"endTime":1274.084,"body":"In a very large organization, we"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1270.754,"endTime":1274.084,"body":"often have people sit down and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1274.084,"endTime":1277.714,"body":"say to the client, how do you"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1274.084,"endTime":1277.714,"body":"get your bonus for the quarter?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1278.074,"endTime":1280.564,"body":"And it's often like really"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1278.074,"endTime":1280.564,"body":"fascinating what comes out."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1280.564,"endTime":1283.834,"body":"It may be what you thought,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1280.564,"endTime":1283.834,"body":"maybe not, but now you know"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1284.164,"endTime":1287.024,"body":"what they're trying to do"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1284.164,"endTime":1287.024,"body":"and you can help them do it."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1287.624,"endTime":1290.235,"body":"And it often kind of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1287.624,"endTime":1290.235,"body":"reframes your project and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1290.235,"endTime":1291.584,"body":"what success looks like."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1291.944,"endTime":1294.2839999999999,"body":"So yeah, so I think it's very"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1291.944,"endTime":1294.2839999999999,"body":"similar to Read The Room, but"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1294.2839999999999,"endTime":1298.394,"body":"it's sort of that EQ and really"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1294.2839999999999,"endTime":1298.394,"body":"having empathy for the business"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1298.394,"endTime":1300.0439999999999,"body":"and the people in the client."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1300.5539999999999,"endTime":1302.144,"body":"I was trying"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1300.5539999999999,"endTime":1302.144,"body":"to be with mine, yours is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1302.144,"endTime":1303.2839999999999,"body":"a better way of saying it."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1303.584,"endTime":1305.204,"body":"It's not about you"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1303.584,"endTime":1305.204,"body":"and read the room."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1305.864,"endTime":1306.134,"body":"Cute."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1306.734,"endTime":1309.164,"body":"But honestly, I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1306.734,"endTime":1309.164,"body":"it's the right, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1309.164,"endTime":1311.324,"body":"sometimes we need to be told the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1309.164,"endTime":1311.324,"body":"same thing in different ways."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1311.444,"endTime":1312.87,"body":"B. It's amazing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1312.87,"endTime":1315.209,"body":"What kind of clicked in my head"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1312.87,"endTime":1315.209,"body":"was that connectivity between"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1315.569,"endTime":1316.709,"body":"EQ and being a team player."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1316.709,"endTime":1319.4089999999999,"body":"Like for some reason they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1316.709,"endTime":1319.4089999999999,"body":"hadn't connected for me in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1319.4089999999999,"endTime":1321.569,"body":"my head, but Pam, when you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1319.4089999999999,"endTime":1321.569,"body":"were like, yeah, you kind of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1321.569,"endTime":1323.61,"body":"need to be thinking about the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1321.569,"endTime":1323.61,"body":"greater whole, the whole pie,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1323.8799999999999,"endTime":1325.3799999999999,"body":"not just you your slice of pie."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1325.6789999999999,"endTime":1328.739,"body":"And in order to do that, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1325.6789999999999,"endTime":1328.739,"body":"need to understand and like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1328.739,"endTime":1332.37,"body":"have the sort of emotional"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1328.739,"endTime":1332.37,"body":"intelligence and the observation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1332.37,"endTime":1334.9189999999999,"body":"skills and the growth mindset"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1332.37,"endTime":1334.9189999999999,"body":"to be like, okay, well"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1334.9189999999999,"endTime":1335.699,"body":"what do other people want?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1335.699,"endTime":1336.779,"body":"How are they gonna"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1335.699,"endTime":1336.779,"body":"get bonused out?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1336.809,"endTime":1340.469,"body":"And how can I help in a way that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1336.809,"endTime":1340.469,"body":"serves me not necessarily like."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1340.994,"endTime":1342.649,"body":"Maybe it's logical and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1340.994,"endTime":1342.649,"body":"obvious, but it's like."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1343.184,"endTime":1346.7839999999999,"body":"Not, I'm gonna help you make"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1343.184,"endTime":1346.7839999999999,"body":"your bonus and I'm gonna miss"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1346.7839999999999,"endTime":1350.114,"body":"all my targets in the process,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1346.7839999999999,"endTime":1350.114,"body":"but also seeing how it all"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1350.114,"endTime":1353.2939999999999,"body":"connects like that mesh, which"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1350.114,"endTime":1353.2939999999999,"body":"I think is really interesting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1353.2939999999999,"endTime":1355.484,"body":"Which actually brings"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1353.2939999999999,"endTime":1355.484,"body":"me to my next sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1355.484,"endTime":1356.594,"body":"thought or question."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1356.834,"endTime":1359.594,"body":"I want to go back to that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1356.834,"endTime":1359.594,"body":"brain breaking thing because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1359.594,"endTime":1361.694,"body":"I think with each of you, I've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1359.594,"endTime":1361.694,"body":"had conversations about, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1361.694,"endTime":1365.2939999999999,"body":"know, what it feels like to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1361.694,"endTime":1365.2939999999999,"body":"kind of get to that next level."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1365.629,"endTime":1367.249,"body":"Then you kind of look"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1365.629,"endTime":1367.249,"body":"back down, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1367.249,"endTime":1369.139,"body":"You're like, you climbed up one"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1367.249,"endTime":1369.139,"body":"rung of the ladder and you look"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1369.139,"endTime":1371.899,"body":"back down, you're like, how did"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1369.139,"endTime":1371.899,"body":"I not see it that way before?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1372.139,"endTime":1374.779,"body":"It's kind of like these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1372.139,"endTime":1374.779,"body":"epiphanies that sometimes feel"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1374.779,"endTime":1377.959,"body":"like they came too late, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1374.779,"endTime":1377.959,"body":"just wondering, in your opinion,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1377.959,"endTime":1381.019,"body":"what is the biggest shift in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1377.959,"endTime":1381.019,"body":"mindset between, you know, being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1381.019,"endTime":1384.079,"body":"someone who delivers projects"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1381.019,"endTime":1384.079,"body":"or project delivery lead versus"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1384.289,"endTime":1388.489,"body":"being an executive or you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1384.289,"endTime":1388.489,"body":"sitting at the VP or SVP level?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1388.489,"endTime":1391.609,"body":"Like how do you look at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1388.489,"endTime":1391.609,"body":"projects and long-term"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1391.609,"endTime":1392.9289999999999,"body":"vision differently?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1393.829,"endTime":1395.509,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1393.829,"endTime":1395.509,"body":"a couple things."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1395.509,"endTime":1399.109,"body":"One is from your own"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1395.509,"endTime":1399.109,"body":"perspective, to me it's"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1399.109,"endTime":1400.939,"body":"like just a bigger puzzle."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1401.1789999999999,"endTime":1405.229,"body":"You're trying to figure"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1401.1789999999999,"endTime":1405.229,"body":"out as a project lead,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1405.229,"endTime":1408.259,"body":"you've got all the things"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1405.229,"endTime":1408.259,"body":"happening inside your project."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1408.619,"endTime":1411.229,"body":"When you take on, say, a"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1408.619,"endTime":1411.229,"body":"whole practice or maybe"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1411.229,"endTime":1413.029,"body":"a geographic region."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1413.4289999999999,"endTime":1417.029,"body":"Now you've got multiple projects"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1413.4289999999999,"endTime":1417.029,"body":"and you have leadership who"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1417.029,"endTime":1419.699,"body":"may or may not be billable,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1417.029,"endTime":1419.699,"body":"and you have people that"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1419.699,"endTime":1423.329,"body":"are on the bench who are not"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1419.699,"endTime":1423.329,"body":"billable, and all of that fits"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1423.329,"endTime":1425.339,"body":"together into your puzzle now."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1425.339,"endTime":1428.309,"body":"So you're trying to work with"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1425.339,"endTime":1428.309,"body":"each project lead to make sure"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1428.309,"endTime":1429.959,"body":"that each project is awesome."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1430.319,"endTime":1432.479,"body":"But now you've also got all"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1430.319,"endTime":1432.479,"body":"these other pieces, like"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1432.479,"endTime":1434.879,"body":"what are, and we used to call"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1432.479,"endTime":1434.879,"body":"it rural schools and tools."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1434.879,"endTime":1437.4289999999999,"body":"So like what's the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1434.879,"endTime":1437.4289999999999,"body":"methodology you've got?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1437.4289999999999,"endTime":1438.749,"body":"How are you training your team?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1438.749,"endTime":1440.759,"body":"How are you constantly"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1438.749,"endTime":1440.759,"body":"upleveling them?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1441.059,"endTime":1444.329,"body":"And all of that time"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1441.059,"endTime":1444.329,"body":"isn't billable typically."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1444.329,"endTime":1446.639,"body":"So you're kind of trying to"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1444.329,"endTime":1446.639,"body":"balance the whole thing so"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1446.999,"endTime":1448.379,"body":"you can make all of that work."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1448.889,"endTime":1450.869,"body":"One way to think about it"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1448.889,"endTime":1450.869,"body":"from your own perspective"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1450.869,"endTime":1452.009,"body":"is it's a bigger puzzle."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1452.339,"endTime":1454.019,"body":"Another one, and I talk"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1452.339,"endTime":1454.019,"body":"about this a little bit with"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1454.019,"endTime":1457.9189999999999,"body":"Vicki on that podcast, is the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1454.019,"endTime":1457.9189999999999,"body":"perspective of the client."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1458.309,"endTime":1461.789,"body":"Has to change and it's"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1458.309,"endTime":1461.789,"body":"almost impossible to do."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1462.029,"endTime":1465.959,"body":"So, you know, this is somebody"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1462.029,"endTime":1465.959,"body":"who is your account director and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1465.959,"endTime":1468.939,"body":"now they're your client partner"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1465.959,"endTime":1468.939,"body":"and they will constantly go"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1468.939,"endTime":1471.58,"body":"back to them in the role of an"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1468.939,"endTime":1471.58,"body":"account director, even though"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1471.58,"endTime":1472.6589999999999,"body":"you've changed their role."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1473.019,"endTime":1475.839,"body":"We actually got to the point"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1473.019,"endTime":1475.839,"body":"where we would just pull"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1475.839,"endTime":1478.029,"body":"people out of a client and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1475.839,"endTime":1478.029,"body":"put them in a new client."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1478.4189999999999,"endTime":1480.279,"body":"Because if you introduce"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1478.4189999999999,"endTime":1480.279,"body":"them to a new client and say,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1480.279,"endTime":1482.499,"body":"this is your client partner,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1480.279,"endTime":1482.499,"body":"they buy it and they just,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1482.499,"endTime":1483.699,"body":"they go to them in that way."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1483.969,"endTime":1487.449,"body":"It's so hard to get your client,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1483.969,"endTime":1487.449,"body":"to treat them differently."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1487.809,"endTime":1489.699,"body":"Actually, I'm curious, Pam,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1487.809,"endTime":1489.699,"body":"if you figured that one out."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1489.699,"endTime":1493.959,"body":"We never figured out how to say"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1489.699,"endTime":1493.959,"body":"this is no longer the person"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1494.1689999999999,"endTime":1495.1589999999999,"body":"who does these three things."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1495.1589999999999,"endTime":1496.239,"body":"They now do these things."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1496.539,"endTime":1496.959,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1497.049,"endTime":1499.449,"body":"No, the, I mean, we can"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1497.049,"endTime":1499.449,"body":"unpack this all day."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1500.0339999999999,"endTime":1502.824,"body":"I totally agree with you, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1500.0339999999999,"endTime":1502.824,"body":"I think the same is true for"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1502.925,"endTime":1505.654,"body":"project managers leveling into"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1502.925,"endTime":1505.654,"body":"a more program role, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1505.654,"endTime":1507.744,"body":"Like it's natural for"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1505.654,"endTime":1507.744,"body":"clients to wanna go to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1507.744,"endTime":1509.424,"body":"them for PME type things."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1509.7549999999999,"endTime":1511.824,"body":"I do the same thing a lot of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1509.7549999999999,"endTime":1511.824,"body":"times if I elevate someone"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1511.824,"endTime":1513.714,"body":"to a program lead they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1511.824,"endTime":1513.714,"body":"going somewhere else."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1514.224,"endTime":1514.5539999999999,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1514.914,"endTime":1516.4189999999999,"body":"It's interesting too,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1514.914,"endTime":1516.4189999999999,"body":"because where my head"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1516.4189999999999,"endTime":1517.735,"body":"goes is like, okay, yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1517.735,"endTime":1521.634,"body":"Like it's hard to change how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1517.735,"endTime":1521.634,"body":"other humans perceive you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1522.039,"endTime":1525.309,"body":"Because we're kind of wired that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1522.039,"endTime":1525.309,"body":"way as a survival skill to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1525.309,"endTime":1526.479,"body":"like, okay, I figured you out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1526.479,"endTime":1527.139,"body":"Moving on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1527.379,"endTime":1528.129,"body":"That's who you are."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1528.129,"endTime":1530.739,"body":"That's the role you play"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1528.129,"endTime":1530.739,"body":"in our, you know, social"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1530.739,"endTime":1531.674,"body":"fabric or in my world."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1532.599,"endTime":1533.289,"body":"If that's all true."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1533.289,"endTime":1535.509,"body":"Then also internally, do you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1533.289,"endTime":1535.509,"body":"have that problem internally"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1535.509,"endTime":1538.599,"body":"where it's like, okay, yes,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1535.509,"endTime":1538.599,"body":"we've promoted this person,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1538.599,"endTime":1540.549,"body":"they are in a new role,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1538.599,"endTime":1540.549,"body":"and they're like, oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1540.549,"endTime":1542.079,"body":"But also, can you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1540.549,"endTime":1542.079,"body":"manage this project?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1542.4189999999999,"endTime":1545.059,"body":"Like how do you deal with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1542.4189999999999,"endTime":1545.059,"body":"the backslide internally too?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1545.059,"endTime":1547.1589999999999,"body":"Like have you found it to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1545.059,"endTime":1547.1589999999999,"body":"be a challenge or is it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1547.1589999999999,"endTime":1549.859,"body":"as simple as being like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1547.1589999999999,"endTime":1549.859,"body":"companywide memo, this person"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1549.859,"endTime":1550.819,"body":"is in this role now by."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1551.119,"endTime":1553.824,"body":"One thing"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1551.119,"endTime":1553.824,"body":"that I've found is sort"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1553.824,"endTime":1554.964,"body":"of a failing as a leader."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1555.2939999999999,"endTime":1557.994,"body":"You promote someone, you"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1555.2939999999999,"endTime":1557.994,"body":"feel great about that, but"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1557.994,"endTime":1561.2939999999999,"body":"did you backfill them or do"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1557.994,"endTime":1561.2939999999999,"body":"they just have two jobs now?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1561.504,"endTime":1561.864,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1561.864,"endTime":1565.5439999999999,"body":"So, that's the other challenge"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1561.864,"endTime":1565.5439999999999,"body":"is you've got to actually have"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1565.5439999999999,"endTime":1568.574,"body":"someone else take their old"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1565.5439999999999,"endTime":1568.574,"body":"job or you've just given them a"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1568.574,"endTime":1570.704,"body":"second job and it's easy to do."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1570.704,"endTime":1571.3039999999999,"body":"You feel great."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1571.3039999999999,"endTime":1572.864,"body":"You're like, you're promoting"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1571.3039999999999,"endTime":1572.864,"body":"someone, you're doing all"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1572.864,"endTime":1573.824,"body":"this great stuff, but."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1574.209,"endTime":1577.059,"body":"It's so hard for them if"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1574.209,"endTime":1577.059,"body":"you don't give them a strong"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1577.059,"endTime":1579.939,"body":"person to slot into whatever"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1577.059,"endTime":1579.939,"body":"their, the old role was."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1580.4189999999999,"endTime":1580.839,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1581.079,"endTime":1583.239,"body":"I wanna revisit some of those"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1581.079,"endTime":1583.239,"body":"things too later because like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1583.509,"endTime":1585.4289999999999,"body":"some of the things I set up"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1583.509,"endTime":1585.4289999999999,"body":"top where I'm like, usually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1585.4289999999999,"endTime":1588.489,"body":"there isn't any program to help"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1585.4289999999999,"endTime":1588.489,"body":"people, you know, get promoted"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1588.489,"endTime":1590.9189999999999,"body":"or, you know, support and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1588.489,"endTime":1590.9189999999999,"body":"it's all like, you know, 85%"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1590.9189999999999,"endTime":1593.859,"body":"billable hours and utilization"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1590.9189999999999,"endTime":1593.859,"body":"seems to me like you actually,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1594.249,"endTime":1595.1789999999999,"body":"it didn't have that problem."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1595.1789999999999,"endTime":1596.769,"body":"You actually had a way"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1595.1789999999999,"endTime":1596.769,"body":"to get people promoted."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1597.639,"endTime":1598.569,"body":"Sorry, Pam, I cut you off."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1598.869,"endTime":1600.549,"body":"I think just"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1598.869,"endTime":1600.549,"body":"to layer onto that a little"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1600.549,"endTime":1602.799,"body":"bit too, I mean this is ending"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1600.549,"endTime":1602.799,"body":"up being the theme, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1603.059,"endTime":1605.729,"body":"When things are good, but I"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1603.059,"endTime":1605.729,"body":"think that like when you promote"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1605.729,"endTime":1609.089,"body":"someone, and maybe we're in"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1605.729,"endTime":1609.089,"body":"a tougher economic climate."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1609.564,"endTime":1611.514,"body":"People do need to be a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1609.564,"endTime":1611.514,"body":"little bit more nimble."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1611.514,"endTime":1613.974,"body":"And so it's awesome to get"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1611.514,"endTime":1613.974,"body":"promoted in that kind of an"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1613.974,"endTime":1617.634,"body":"environment, but sometimes"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1613.974,"endTime":1617.634,"body":"we need you to slip back"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1617.634,"endTime":1620.244,"body":"down because we don't have"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1617.634,"endTime":1620.244,"body":"the resources or we can't"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1620.244,"endTime":1622.434,"body":"hire right now or whatever."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1622.734,"endTime":1624.854,"body":"And so we need to we need to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1622.734,"endTime":1624.854,"body":"make sure that we're really"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1624.854,"endTime":1628.184,"body":"intentional about when we ask"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1624.854,"endTime":1628.184,"body":"people to kind of step back down"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1628.184,"endTime":1630.734,"body":"and play a different role, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1628.184,"endTime":1630.734,"body":"that we are able to pull them"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1630.734,"endTime":1632.514,"body":"back out and let them do the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1630.734,"endTime":1632.514,"body":"job that they're supposed to do."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1633.049,"endTime":1634.339,"body":"I love that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1633.049,"endTime":1634.339,"body":"because it brings us"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1634.339,"endTime":1635.509,"body":"kind of full circle."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1635.759,"endTime":1637.4089999999999,"body":"You know, first thing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1635.759,"endTime":1637.4089999999999,"body":"I asked was like, why"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1637.4089999999999,"endTime":1638.789,"body":"is it important now?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1639.119,"endTime":1641.459,"body":"And I said AI and probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1639.119,"endTime":1641.459,"body":"some other things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1641.789,"endTime":1643.959,"body":"And I think going back to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1641.789,"endTime":1643.959,"body":"some of the comments into chat"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1643.979,"endTime":1647.129,"body":"right now, I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1643.979,"endTime":1647.129,"body":"it's clear for everyone slash"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1647.1589999999999,"endTime":1651.539,"body":"anyone if this is a permanent"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1647.1589999999999,"endTime":1651.539,"body":"shift or a temporary shift."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1651.869,"endTime":1654.029,"body":"I do wanna weave in this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1651.869,"endTime":1654.029,"body":"question as well because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1654.209,"endTime":1656.489,"body":"with all this sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1654.209,"endTime":1656.489,"body":"hybridization going on, like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1656.489,"endTime":1658.019,"body":"what becomes of our titling or."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1658.629,"endTime":1660.609,"body":"Mark to your point, like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1658.629,"endTime":1660.609,"body":"we're thinking of sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1660.609,"endTime":1661.869,"body":"two different perspectives."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1661.869,"endTime":1663.4289999999999,"body":"We're thinking of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1661.869,"endTime":1663.4289999999999,"body":"health of the business,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1663.4289999999999,"endTime":1664.359,"body":"health of the project."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1664.569,"endTime":1666.489,"body":"We're doing multiple jobs,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1664.569,"endTime":1666.489,"body":"we're account managers for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1666.489,"endTime":1670.509,"body":"project managers, and then like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1666.489,"endTime":1670.509,"body":"our role shifts dramatically."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1670.509,"endTime":1672.519,"body":"The title doesn't even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1670.509,"endTime":1672.519,"body":"capture it anymore."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1672.519,"endTime":1674.9189999999999,"body":"So like that will probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1672.519,"endTime":1674.9189999999999,"body":"evolve, but maybe even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1674.9189999999999,"endTime":1676.719,"body":"to kind of zoom it out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1674.9189999999999,"endTime":1676.719,"body":"even a little bit more."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1677.379,"endTime":1679.6589999999999,"body":"Are some of the things we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1677.379,"endTime":1679.6589999999999,"body":"talking about today, is it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1679.749,"endTime":1682.989,"body":"just because of like times"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1679.749,"endTime":1682.989,"body":"of hardship or will these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1682.989,"endTime":1683.9189999999999,"body":"things become permanent?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1683.9189999999999,"endTime":1686.889,"body":"Is this like the price of gas"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1683.9189999999999,"endTime":1686.889,"body":"where you're like, oh, oil's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1686.889,"endTime":1689.4089999999999,"body":"expensive now and the price of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1686.889,"endTime":1689.4089999999999,"body":"gas goes up, but then somehow"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1689.4089999999999,"endTime":1690.489,"body":"it never goes back down?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1690.639,"endTime":1691.149,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1691.149,"endTime":1693.759,"body":"Like or is this kind of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1691.149,"endTime":1693.759,"body":"like a temporary thing?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1694.329,"endTime":1695.529,"body":"No, I don't"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1694.329,"endTime":1695.529,"body":"think this is going anywhere."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1695.949,"endTime":1698.229,"body":"I think this is just"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1695.949,"endTime":1698.229,"body":"kind of the evolution of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1698.529,"endTime":1701.709,"body":"services organizations"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1698.529,"endTime":1701.709,"body":"of being more nimble."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1702.024,"endTime":1704.604,"body":"I mean, we've seen recently,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1702.024,"endTime":1704.604,"body":"and I don't think that this"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1704.604,"endTime":1708.174,"body":"is going anywhere either with"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1704.604,"endTime":1708.174,"body":"things like AI and expectation,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1708.174,"endTime":1710.904,"body":"like clients are way more"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1708.174,"endTime":1710.904,"body":"cost conscious, but it's not"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1710.904,"endTime":1712.584,"body":"just about how much they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1710.904,"endTime":1712.584,"body":"willing to spend, it's their"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1712.584,"endTime":1715.704,"body":"expectations around pricing from"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1712.584,"endTime":1715.704,"body":"services organizations, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1715.914,"endTime":1717.444,"body":"They expect us to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1715.914,"endTime":1717.444,"body":"be more efficient."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1717.474,"endTime":1720.454,"body":"They expect us to find"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1717.474,"endTime":1720.454,"body":"faster ways to get work done."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1721.074,"endTime":1721.764,"body":"I mean, I think."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1722.059,"endTime":1724.399,"body":"Gone are the days when we"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1722.059,"endTime":1724.399,"body":"have resourcing plans with"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1724.399,"endTime":1725.869,"body":"42 roles on them, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1726.199,"endTime":1728.779,"body":"And so I don't think"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1726.199,"endTime":1728.779,"body":"that's going anywhere."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1728.779,"endTime":1731.059,"body":"I think that's an expectation"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1728.779,"endTime":1731.059,"body":"from clients that will"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1731.059,"endTime":1733.549,"body":"continue to be there, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1731.059,"endTime":1733.549,"body":"we need to figure out how to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1733.549,"endTime":1734.959,"body":"deliver to those expectations."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1734.959,"endTime":1737.689,"body":"So I don't think that the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1734.959,"endTime":1737.689,"body":"hybrid thing is going anywhere."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1738.084,"endTime":1740.214,"body":"I also don't think that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1738.084,"endTime":1740.214,"body":"the project manager"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1740.214,"endTime":1741.714,"body":"title is changing."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1741.714,"endTime":1743.994,"body":"I think the expectations"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1741.714,"endTime":1743.994,"body":"of that role will evolve."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1744.354,"endTime":1748.224,"body":"I don't think that we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1744.354,"endTime":1748.224,"body":"retitle an entire set of people"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1748.224,"endTime":1749.694,"body":"internationally who do this for."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1749.694,"endTime":1752.574,"body":"Like, no, the expectations"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1749.694,"endTime":1752.574,"body":"in that role will change."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1752.604,"endTime":1754.134,"body":"I don't think that we're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1752.604,"endTime":1754.134,"body":"gonna retitle everyone"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":1754.164,"endTime":1754.824,"body":"who's a project manager."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1755.514,"endTime":1756.414,"body":"I would echo that."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1756.414,"endTime":1759.214,"body":"I would say I, I was talking"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1756.414,"endTime":1759.214,"body":"to somebody who runs one of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1759.214,"endTime":1763.954,"body":"the top 10 US consulting firms,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1759.214,"endTime":1763.954,"body":"and he said that clients have"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1763.954,"endTime":1766.684,"body":"just cut their budgets in half."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1766.684,"endTime":1766.744,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1766.864,"endTime":1769.954,"body":"For what they're willing"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1766.864,"endTime":1769.954,"body":"to pay, so whatever they"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1769.954,"endTime":1773.164,"body":"used to bid, they now are"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1769.954,"endTime":1773.164,"body":"supposed to bid half of that."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1773.224,"endTime":1775.264,"body":"And it's just on the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1773.224,"endTime":1775.264,"body":"consulting firm to figure"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1775.264,"endTime":1778.384,"body":"out how to deliver the same"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1775.264,"endTime":1778.384,"body":"value and half the price."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1778.444,"endTime":1781.744,"body":"And it's just assumed that they"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1778.444,"endTime":1781.744,"body":"will because technology and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1781.744,"endTime":1783.214,"body":"AI and that's it like that."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1784.024,"endTime":1787.0539999999999,"body":"So I think it's fascinating and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1784.024,"endTime":1787.0539999999999,"body":"I think, but I also think sort"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1787.0539999999999,"endTime":1789.664,"body":"of as my role, I, you know,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1787.0539999999999,"endTime":1789.664,"body":"I started out as a developer"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1789.664,"endTime":1792.3039999999999,"body":"and I've gone through a lot of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1789.664,"endTime":1792.3039999999999,"body":"different things in my career."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1792.664,"endTime":1795.5439999999999,"body":"What I think the theme is I've"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1792.664,"endTime":1795.5439999999999,"body":"gotten a broader perspective."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1796.234,"endTime":1799.684,"body":"Like as you become CEO or"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1796.234,"endTime":1799.684,"body":"as different levels, you"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1799.684,"endTime":1801.874,"body":"just need to think about"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1799.684,"endTime":1801.874,"body":"everybody's perspective"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1801.874,"endTime":1804.334,"body":"and pull it all together"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1801.874,"endTime":1804.334,"body":"as you work on the puzzle."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1804.694,"endTime":1807.874,"body":"I think that is gonna happen"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1804.694,"endTime":1807.874,"body":"to everybody sooner in their"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1807.874,"endTime":1811.354,"body":"career, but every level"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1807.874,"endTime":1811.354,"body":"you're gonna be expected to"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1811.354,"endTime":1814.024,"body":"understand, appreciate, and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1811.354,"endTime":1814.024,"body":"take into account all these"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1814.024,"endTime":1815.134,"body":"different perspectives."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1815.6589999999999,"endTime":1818.359,"body":"Because in theory, you're"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1815.6589999999999,"endTime":1818.359,"body":"not doing any like boring"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1818.359,"endTime":1820.099,"body":"work anymore 'cause"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1818.359,"endTime":1820.099,"body":"that's all done for you."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1820.099,"endTime":1821.449,"body":"I don't know if that's"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1820.099,"endTime":1821.449,"body":"really true, but that's"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1821.449,"endTime":1823.279,"body":"sort of the theory of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1821.449,"endTime":1823.279,"body":"the whole thing, right?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1823.279,"endTime":1825.499,"body":"And so now you've got"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1823.279,"endTime":1825.499,"body":"time to really understand"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1825.499,"endTime":1828.1689999999999,"body":"everybody's perspective and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1825.499,"endTime":1828.1689999999999,"body":"really pull it all together."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1828.1689999999999,"endTime":1830.749,"body":"I think that's what"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1828.1689999999999,"endTime":1830.749,"body":"the expectation"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1830.749,"endTime":1831.589,"body":"placed on you will be."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1831.589,"endTime":1833.449,"body":"I don't know how"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1831.589,"endTime":1833.449,"body":"that will play out."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1833.539,"endTime":1834.799,"body":"It'll be fascinating to see."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1835.099,"endTime":1835.789,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1835.789,"endTime":1838.579,"body":"I am, for better or for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1835.789,"endTime":1838.579,"body":"worse, it will take time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1838.579,"endTime":1841.459,"body":"for us to like figure out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1838.579,"endTime":1841.459,"body":"where the dust settles."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1841.799,"endTime":1843.479,"body":"Ideally it is that way, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1843.479,"endTime":1845.399,"body":"Where it's like, yeah, all that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1843.479,"endTime":1845.399,"body":"boring stuff that was taking up"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1845.399,"endTime":1848.849,"body":"your time, it gets automated,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1845.399,"endTime":1848.849,"body":"you know, AI does it and, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1848.849,"endTime":1850.959,"body":"I think the other thing it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1848.849,"endTime":1850.959,"body":"been coming up in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1850.959,"endTime":1854.529,"body":"conversations, not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1850.959,"endTime":1854.529,"body":"that like AI is changing stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1854.559,"endTime":1857.229,"body":"It is, but also it's this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1854.559,"endTime":1857.229,"body":"sort of trigger moment"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1857.229,"endTime":1860.319,"body":"for us to like rethink how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1857.229,"endTime":1860.319,"body":"we think about thoughts."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1860.349,"endTime":1860.829,"body":"You know what I mean?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1860.829,"endTime":1863.289,"body":"Like to be very abstract"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1860.829,"endTime":1863.289,"body":"about it, is this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1863.289,"endTime":1864.399,"body":"moment in time to like."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1864.754,"endTime":1865.024,"body":"Go."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1865.024,"endTime":1865.354,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1865.354,"endTime":1866.944,"body":"But like I should zoom out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1866.944,"endTime":1867.844,"body":"I should look at the pie."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1867.844,"endTime":1868.894,"body":"I should look at the puzzle."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1869.074,"endTime":1870.574,"body":"That's always been true."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1870.964,"endTime":1872.614,"body":"It didn't suddenly become true."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1872.644,"endTime":1876.214,"body":"It's just that it wasn't a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1872.644,"endTime":1876.214,"body":"priority and now it kind of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1876.274,"endTime":1879.364,"body":"is and might be forever, is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1876.274,"endTime":1879.364,"body":"the kind of, I think where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1879.364,"endTime":1881.2839999999999,"body":"we're landing here, which is."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1882.089,"endTime":1884.039,"body":"It's a big thing to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1882.089,"endTime":1884.039,"body":"wrap your head around."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1884.339,"endTime":1886.799,"body":"It is not necessarily new,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1884.339,"endTime":1886.799,"body":"it's just the moment or it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1886.799,"endTime":1889.889,"body":"become very important and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1886.799,"endTime":1889.889,"body":"that's, I don't know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1889.889,"endTime":1891.209,"body":"finding this flattening out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1891.4189999999999,"endTime":1891.6589999999999,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1891.6589999999999,"endTime":1895.619,"body":"Or I've had the privilege in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1891.6589999999999,"endTime":1895.619,"body":"my career of like standing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1895.619,"endTime":1897.629,"body":"out in some way, having"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1895.619,"endTime":1897.629,"body":"people who like push me out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1897.629,"endTime":1899.969,"body":"to front of stage and give"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1897.629,"endTime":1899.969,"body":"me visibility and help me"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1899.969,"endTime":1901.319,"body":"understand the puzzle, you know?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1901.319,"endTime":1901.874,"body":"And I was like yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1901.874,"endTime":1902.504,"body":"I'll just go along."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1902.504,"endTime":1905.084,"body":"Like I was a loose logging in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1902.504,"endTime":1905.084,"body":"a river, just going wherever"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1905.084,"endTime":1906.5539999999999,"body":"it goes and getting lucky."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1906.5539999999999,"endTime":1907.754,"body":"And now it's almost like, no."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1908.099,"endTime":1910.979,"body":"Those are things that you need"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1908.099,"endTime":1910.979,"body":"to have for your career health."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1911.279,"endTime":1913.619,"body":"Like don't just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1911.279,"endTime":1913.619,"body":"accidentally come upon them."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1913.9189999999999,"endTime":1914.399,"body":"Seek 'em out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1914.849,"endTime":1916.379,"body":"So you got the people who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1914.849,"endTime":1916.379,"body":"will teach you about the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1916.379,"endTime":1918.839,"body":"puzzle, who will do the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1916.379,"endTime":1918.839,"body":"translation, who will, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1918.839,"endTime":1921.749,"body":"know, help you understand and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1918.839,"endTime":1921.749,"body":"maybe consume the entire pie."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1922.079,"endTime":1924.1789999999999,"body":"But, you know, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1922.079,"endTime":1924.1789999999999,"body":"the important thing Now."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1924.584,"endTime":1927.254,"body":"Which I think leads me"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1924.584,"endTime":1927.254,"body":"actually to, I think we've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1927.254,"endTime":1929.774,"body":"been talking from the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1927.254,"endTime":1929.774,"body":"viewpoint of the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1929.774,"endTime":1931.3039999999999,"body":"project manager a lot here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1931.604,"endTime":1933.404,"body":"But Mark, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1931.604,"endTime":1933.404,"body":"something important, which is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1933.404,"endTime":1936.854,"body":"that, you know, having programs"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1933.404,"endTime":1936.854,"body":"in place and having this sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1936.854,"endTime":1940.3039999999999,"body":"of the non-billable upskilling"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1936.854,"endTime":1940.3039999999999,"body":"stuff as part of the fabric"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1940.3039999999999,"endTime":1943.724,"body":"of your organization, I don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1940.3039999999999,"endTime":1943.724,"body":"know that every team lead"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1943.754,"endTime":1944.894,"body":"thinks that's even possible."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1945.614,"endTime":1947.624,"body":"I thought maybe I'd zoom out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1945.614,"endTime":1947.624,"body":"from that and say like, what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1947.624,"endTime":1951.824,"body":"role can, like a founder or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1947.624,"endTime":1951.824,"body":"an executive or leadership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1951.824,"endTime":1955.094,"body":"team play in supporting this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1951.824,"endTime":1955.094,"body":"transformation of their top"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1955.094,"endTime":1958.574,"body":"project leaders into, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1955.094,"endTime":1958.574,"body":"know, ideally the firm's next"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1958.574,"endTime":1960.104,"body":"generation of business leaders?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1960.614,"endTime":1961.094,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1961.364,"endTime":1964.244,"body":"At Nexient, we're very"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1961.364,"endTime":1964.244,"body":"intentional about that,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1964.3039999999999,"endTime":1968.384,"body":"and so what we did is we"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1964.3039999999999,"endTime":1968.384,"body":"created a wiki page that had"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1968.744,"endTime":1970.994,"body":"sort of the requirements of"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1968.744,"endTime":1970.994,"body":"every job in the company."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1972.134,"endTime":1974.894,"body":"So you could see whatever"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1972.134,"endTime":1974.894,"body":"track you were on, you could"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1974.894,"endTime":1977.564,"body":"see your level, what we"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1974.894,"endTime":1977.564,"body":"expect for you to be great."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1977.594,"endTime":1981.194,"body":"And the next level up, you"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1977.594,"endTime":1981.194,"body":"could see the CEO, you could"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1981.194,"endTime":1983.984,"body":"see the general managers, you"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1981.194,"endTime":1983.984,"body":"could see the client partners."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1983.984,"endTime":1985.994,"body":"You could think about"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1983.984,"endTime":1985.994,"body":"what skills do they need."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1986.384,"endTime":1988.754,"body":"And you could also look"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1986.384,"endTime":1988.754,"body":"horizontally, like if you're a"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1989.024,"endTime":1991.814,"body":"program manager, but you wanna"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1989.024,"endTime":1991.814,"body":"become a product manager, what"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1991.814,"endTime":1994.154,"body":"are the skills that they have"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1991.814,"endTime":1994.154,"body":"and how can you go get them?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1994.5439999999999,"endTime":1996.734,"body":"So we were trying to be very"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1994.5439999999999,"endTime":1996.734,"body":"transparent about, here's"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1996.734,"endTime":1998.834,"body":"all the things you could"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1996.734,"endTime":1998.834,"body":"do and here's what you need"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":1998.834,"endTime":1999.884,"body":"to be good at to do them."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2000.334,"endTime":2004.864,"body":"And then please, we also kind"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2000.334,"endTime":2004.864,"body":"of made it, you own this, so"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2004.864,"endTime":2008.254,"body":"if you wanna switch roles,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2004.864,"endTime":2008.254,"body":"come to us and tell us that."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2008.2839999999999,"endTime":2011.314,"body":"Tell us what you wanna learn"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2008.2839999999999,"endTime":2011.314,"body":"and then give us your plan."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2011.314,"endTime":2013.444,"body":"And so we were always trying"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2011.314,"endTime":2013.444,"body":"to push people to own it,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2013.894,"endTime":2016.354,"body":"but with the information"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2013.894,"endTime":2016.354,"body":"of what's possible."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2016.354,"endTime":2018.724,"body":"And if you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2016.354,"endTime":2018.724,"body":"get to this other box,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2018.754,"endTime":2019.594,"body":"what do you need to know?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2019.594,"endTime":2020.914,"body":"What skills do you need to have?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2021.454,"endTime":2023.584,"body":"I really like that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2021.454,"endTime":2023.584,"body":"sort of core capabilities model"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2023.764,"endTime":2026.194,"body":"and also the fact that, 'cause"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2023.764,"endTime":2026.194,"body":"like what I was gonna say is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2026.194,"endTime":2030.064,"body":"that I've seen it sort of quote"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2026.194,"endTime":2030.064,"body":"unquote backfire of like, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2030.064,"endTime":2032.674,"body":"meet all these requirements,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2030.064,"endTime":2032.674,"body":"give me my promotion now please."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2033.004,"endTime":2034.264,"body":"It's so you can pitch it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2034.264,"endTime":2037.564,"body":"It's transparency and visibility"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2034.264,"endTime":2037.564,"body":"into how things work so that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2037.564,"endTime":2041.194,"body":"you can pitch it and you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2037.564,"endTime":2041.194,"body":"it might not be a yes just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2041.194,"endTime":2042.274,"body":"'cause you tick all the boxes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2042.5439999999999,"endTime":2042.604,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2042.604,"endTime":2045.364,"body":"There's just so much that goes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2042.604,"endTime":2045.364,"body":"into this and even the sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2045.364,"endTime":2046.689,"body":"leadership teams I've worked"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2045.364,"endTime":2046.689,"body":"with where it's just like."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2047.269,"endTime":2049.129,"body":"If they wanna be a product"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2047.269,"endTime":2049.129,"body":"manager, but I just don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2049.129,"endTime":2050.9990000000003,"body":"think they're gonna be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2049.129,"endTime":2050.9990000000003,"body":"good product manager here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2051.574,"endTime":2053.404,"body":"Then yes, they're ticking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2051.574,"endTime":2053.404,"body":"the boxes and yes, they have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2053.404,"endTime":2055.384,"body":"ambitions and yes, they're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2053.404,"endTime":2055.384,"body":"pitching this, but like we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2055.384,"endTime":2056.494,"body":"don't think it's the right fit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2056.884,"endTime":2059.344,"body":"And on the other end that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2056.884,"endTime":2059.344,"body":"sounds like, oh, you gave"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2059.344,"endTime":2060.424,"body":"me a map to a treasure."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2060.424,"endTime":2062.524,"body":"And then you're like, sorry,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2060.424,"endTime":2062.524,"body":"princesses isn't another castle."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2062.524,"endTime":2064.8940000000002,"body":"You know, like it seems"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2062.524,"endTime":2064.8940000000002,"body":"like a bait and switch, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2064.8940000000002,"endTime":2068.404,"body":"actually it's not an automatic"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2064.8940000000002,"endTime":2068.404,"body":"promotion because you fulfilled"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2068.404,"endTime":2069.184,"body":"all these requirements."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2069.484,"endTime":2069.574,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2069.574,"endTime":2071.554,"body":"Like it does give you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2069.574,"endTime":2071.554,"body":"visibility into what it would"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2071.554,"endTime":2072.7540000000004,"body":"take for you to make a case."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2073.159,"endTime":2075.3790000000004,"body":"And hopefully"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2073.159,"endTime":2075.3790000000004,"body":"if there were something"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2075.3790000000004,"endTime":2077.539,"body":"missing for that person,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2075.3790000000004,"endTime":2077.539,"body":"it would be in the box."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2077.539,"endTime":2080.4790000000003,"body":"Like, you're not gonna be"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2077.539,"endTime":2080.4790000000003,"body":"good at this because of X. And"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2080.779,"endTime":2083.1490000000003,"body":"yeah, like ideally it would"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2080.779,"endTime":2083.1490000000003,"body":"be part of the transparency"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2083.1490000000003,"endTime":2084.049,"body":"that whatever that is."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2084.619,"endTime":2086.7490000000003,"body":"I mean, Pam do,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2084.619,"endTime":2086.7490000000003,"body":"have you had similar systems?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2086.7490000000003,"endTime":2089.1490000000003,"body":"Like does the sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2086.7490000000003,"endTime":2089.1490000000003,"body":"Billability thing come up?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2089.299,"endTime":2091.344,"body":"You know, you've worked"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2089.299,"endTime":2091.344,"body":"in some large agencies."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2092.119,"endTime":2094.969,"body":"And I still think that's kinda"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2092.119,"endTime":2094.969,"body":"one of those things where it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2094.969,"endTime":2096.6490000000003,"body":"like, yeah, but billable work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2096.6490000000003,"endTime":2099.1090000000004,"body":"Like do we really need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2096.6490000000003,"endTime":2099.1090000000004,"body":"train this person so that they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2099.1090000000004,"endTime":2100.1890000000003,"body":"can become a better human?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2100.5190000000002,"endTime":2101.6290000000004,"body":"Or can we just get paid?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2102.469,"endTime":2104.349,"body":"Like how do you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2102.469,"endTime":2104.349,"body":"find that dichotomy?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2104.349,"endTime":2107.1690000000003,"body":"Especially as like where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2104.349,"endTime":2107.1690000000003,"body":"you sit in the organization"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2107.1690000000003,"endTime":2109.2690000000002,"body":"where someone above you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2107.1690000000003,"endTime":2109.2690000000002,"body":"might be like no, Pam, just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2109.2690000000002,"endTime":2110.1090000000004,"body":"work 'em to death please."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2110.409,"endTime":2112.929,"body":"And everyone below you is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2110.409,"endTime":2112.929,"body":"like, Hey, we can be excellent"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2112.9590000000003,"endTime":2115.059,"body":"and we can help drive growth,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2112.9590000000003,"endTime":2115.059,"body":"but we need some help."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2115.3590000000004,"endTime":2116.4390000000003,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2115.3590000000004,"endTime":2116.4390000000003,"body":"no, completely."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2116.4390000000003,"endTime":2120.474,"body":"I think unless that tone is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2116.4390000000003,"endTime":2120.474,"body":"set from the top level of the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2120.474,"endTime":2123.204,"body":"organization that everybody"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2120.474,"endTime":2123.204,"body":"is responsible for growth."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2123.2340000000004,"endTime":2125.8140000000003,"body":"Everybody has a CEO mindset."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2125.844,"endTime":2128.2140000000004,"body":"Everybody needs to care"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2125.844,"endTime":2128.2140000000004,"body":"about this, then it's not"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2128.2140000000004,"endTime":2129.114,"body":"gonna resonate, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2129.114,"endTime":2130.4640000000004,"body":"Like that is the tone"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2129.114,"endTime":2130.4640000000004,"body":"that we need to set at"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2130.4640000000004,"endTime":2131.3940000000002,"body":"an organizational level."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2131.3940000000002,"endTime":2133.369,"body":"We've got a lot of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2131.3940000000002,"endTime":2133.369,"body":"opportunities to do that, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2133.369,"endTime":2136.0690000000004,"body":"We've got town halls, we've"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2133.369,"endTime":2136.0690000000004,"body":"got company wide meetings,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2136.0690000000004,"endTime":2138.289,"body":"we've got, and the way that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2136.0690000000004,"endTime":2138.289,"body":"you approach those is so"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2138.289,"endTime":2141.139,"body":"critical for the tone that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2138.289,"endTime":2141.139,"body":"you've set around priorities."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2141.4840000000004,"endTime":2142.7140000000004,"body":"What people care about."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2143.074,"endTime":2145.264,"body":"I love what you said"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2143.074,"endTime":2145.264,"body":"there because I know so many"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2145.264,"endTime":2148.1440000000002,"body":"organizations where like town"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2145.264,"endTime":2148.1440000000002,"body":"hall and like having values"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2148.1440000000002,"endTime":2151.174,"body":"and a mission statement is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2148.1440000000002,"endTime":2151.174,"body":"just like a box tick exercise"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2151.4440000000004,"endTime":2153.244,"body":"and they don't give it the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2151.4440000000004,"endTime":2153.244,"body":"time and attention and care"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2153.244,"endTime":2155.704,"body":"to realize that every time you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2153.244,"endTime":2155.704,"body":"have a town hall and you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2155.704,"endTime":2158.1040000000003,"body":"talking about what matters,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2155.704,"endTime":2158.1040000000003,"body":"it's building this cultural"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2158.1040000000003,"endTime":2159.3940000000002,"body":"fabric within your organization."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2159.3940000000002,"endTime":2160.744,"body":"It's shifting people's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2159.3940000000002,"endTime":2160.744,"body":"understanding."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2160.924,"endTime":2163.204,"body":"It's giving them the information"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2160.924,"endTime":2163.204,"body":"mark to your point about like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2163.474,"endTime":2165.724,"body":"what is the way you need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2163.474,"endTime":2165.724,"body":"think to be successful here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2166.059,"endTime":2169.059,"body":"Or at least the way you need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2166.059,"endTime":2169.059,"body":"behave to be successful here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2169.059,"endTime":2171.579,"body":"And like I just see so many"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2169.059,"endTime":2171.579,"body":"organizations, they're like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2171.8790000000004,"endTime":2174.3390000000004,"body":"we cobbled together some slides"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2171.8790000000004,"endTime":2174.3390000000004,"body":"and got the staff together"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2174.3390000000004,"endTime":2176.739,"body":"and we're like, blah, blah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2174.3390000000004,"endTime":2176.739,"body":"blah, forecasted revenue."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2176.7690000000002,"endTime":2177.1890000000003,"body":"Bye."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2177.2490000000003,"endTime":2177.639,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2177.639,"endTime":2179.409,"body":"And it's like, okay, actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2177.639,"endTime":2179.409,"body":"that was your moment."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2179.409,"endTime":2183.039,"body":"That was an opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2179.409,"endTime":2183.039,"body":"like upskill everybody for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2183.279,"endTime":2185.199,"body":"free because you would've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2183.279,"endTime":2185.199,"body":"spent that time anyways."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2185.5890000000004,"endTime":2187.599,"body":"That mindset shift, I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2185.5890000000004,"endTime":2187.599,"body":"it's really interesting."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2187.929,"endTime":2190.239,"body":"As someone who is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2187.929,"endTime":2190.239,"body":"kind of the voice of leadership,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2190.239,"endTime":2191.5840000000003,"body":"but also the voice of the teams."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2192.409,"endTime":2194.509,"body":"One thing that I really try"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2192.409,"endTime":2194.509,"body":"to encourage my teams to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2194.509,"endTime":2198.3790000000004,"body":"do is look at their remit"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2194.509,"endTime":2198.3790000000004,"body":"as a book of business."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2198.829,"endTime":2201.1090000000004,"body":"It is their tiny business"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2198.829,"endTime":2201.1090000000004,"body":"that they are running."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2201.5890000000004,"endTime":2203.389,"body":"It could be two small projects."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2203.449,"endTime":2205.849,"body":"If you're a more junior"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2203.449,"endTime":2205.849,"body":"project manager, it could"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2205.849,"endTime":2209.659,"body":"be $20 million in revenue"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2205.849,"endTime":2209.659,"body":"across one large account."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2209.6890000000003,"endTime":2210.049,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2210.4390000000003,"endTime":2213.1690000000003,"body":"But look at it as a book"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2210.4390000000003,"endTime":2213.1690000000003,"body":"of business that you are"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2213.1690000000003,"endTime":2214.849,"body":"running for the organization."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2215.119,"endTime":2217.369,"body":"I try to empower my teams"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2215.119,"endTime":2217.369,"body":"to make smart calls."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2217.744,"endTime":2220.1440000000002,"body":"But I also make sure that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2217.744,"endTime":2220.1440000000002,"body":"the calls that they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2220.1440000000002,"endTime":2222.664,"body":"allowed to make are in"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2220.1440000000002,"endTime":2222.664,"body":"line with the organization."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2222.664,"endTime":2222.934,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2222.934,"endTime":2226.2340000000004,"body":"So I think that folks at"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2222.934,"endTime":2226.2340000000004,"body":"this kind of layer that I'm"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2226.2340000000004,"endTime":2230.1940000000004,"body":"representing here today, we're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2226.2340000000004,"endTime":2230.1940000000004,"body":"really critical in translating"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2230.224,"endTime":2233.1040000000003,"body":"the needs of the business to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2230.224,"endTime":2233.1040000000003,"body":"something that will resonate"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2233.1040000000003,"endTime":2236.764,"body":"with our teams, but then also"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2233.1040000000003,"endTime":2236.764,"body":"translating the pain points,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2236.764,"endTime":2238.954,"body":"the objectives, the things"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2236.764,"endTime":2238.954,"body":"that our teams are going up"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2238.954,"endTime":2243.034,"body":"against to leadership in a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2238.954,"endTime":2243.034,"body":"way that is going to resonate"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2243.034,"endTime":2244.0840000000003,"body":"and land with them as well."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2244.0840000000003,"endTime":2244.414,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2244.7490000000003,"endTime":2248.739,"body":"And so being kind of that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2244.7490000000003,"endTime":2248.739,"body":"two-way street of what the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2248.739,"endTime":2251.469,"body":"organization needs and what the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2248.739,"endTime":2251.469,"body":"teams and individual projects"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2251.469,"endTime":2252.699,"body":"need is really important."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2253.0890000000004,"endTime":2255.369,"body":"That I think is so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2253.0890000000004,"endTime":2255.369,"body":"cool because like, especially"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2255.369,"endTime":2257.799,"body":"even, you know, coming back"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2255.369,"endTime":2257.799,"body":"to that, how, and like Mark, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2257.799,"endTime":2260.079,"body":"think you described it well in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2257.799,"endTime":2260.079,"body":"saying that, you know, you need"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2260.079,"endTime":2262.449,"body":"to understand the puzzle and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2260.079,"endTime":2262.449,"body":"how it fits together, but then"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2262.449,"endTime":2265.289,"body":"the practicality of that, Pam,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2262.449,"endTime":2265.289,"body":"that you just hit on is that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2266.049,"endTime":2269.5890000000004,"body":"It's like that's where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2266.049,"endTime":2269.5890000000004,"body":"it happens every day."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2269.619,"endTime":2272.1090000000004,"body":"Not like at a two day"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2269.619,"endTime":2272.1090000000004,"body":"workshop, not at a, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2272.1090000000004,"endTime":2275.8590000000004,"body":"know, online training"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2272.1090000000004,"endTime":2275.8590000000004,"body":"that you did after hours."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2275.8590000000004,"endTime":2277.719,"body":"It's actually on the job, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2275.8590000000004,"endTime":2277.719,"body":"it's the people you've got"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2277.719,"endTime":2278.529,"body":"and the culture you've got."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2278.799,"endTime":2280.9590000000003,"body":"That creates the ecosystem"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2278.799,"endTime":2280.9590000000003,"body":"for people to be empowered"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2280.9590000000003,"endTime":2282.849,"body":"to make good decisions"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2280.9590000000003,"endTime":2282.849,"body":"because they understand."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2283.1440000000002,"endTime":2284.5240000000003,"body":"They've been given"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2283.1440000000002,"endTime":2284.5240000000003,"body":"the whole puzzle."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2284.7940000000003,"endTime":2287.3740000000003,"body":"And I do, like, I see the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2284.7940000000003,"endTime":2287.3740000000003,"body":"note in our notes doc and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2287.3740000000003,"endTime":2289.3540000000003,"body":"just as transparency, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2287.3740000000003,"endTime":2289.3540000000003,"body":"I'm like, I get it now."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2291.384,"endTime":2293.125,"body":"No, it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2291.384,"endTime":2293.125,"body":"impossible, especially at"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2293.125,"endTime":2296.844,"body":"an enterprise level for"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2293.125,"endTime":2296.844,"body":"everybody to understand, right."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2296.844,"endTime":2299.875,"body":"The tippy top of the pyramid"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2296.844,"endTime":2299.875,"body":"and the lowest level of the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2299.875,"endTime":2302.605,"body":"pyramid for both of those"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2299.875,"endTime":2302.605,"body":"levels to understand each"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2302.605,"endTime":2304.525,"body":"other's priorities completely."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2304.824,"endTime":2308.574,"body":"And so middle management VP"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2304.824,"endTime":2308.574,"body":"layers, like, that's where"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2308.574,"endTime":2310.1150000000002,"body":"it becomes so critical to do."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2310.8,"endTime":2313.38,"body":"Be the connection points"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2310.8,"endTime":2313.38,"body":"between all the layers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2313.739,"endTime":2316.44,"body":"That's a fantastic"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2313.739,"endTime":2316.44,"body":"segue into our bonus segment."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2316.77,"endTime":2319.799,"body":"Mark, I was wondering if you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2316.77,"endTime":2319.799,"body":"could tell me as CEO, what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2319.799,"endTime":2321.179,"body":"does gross margin mean to you?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2321.179,"endTime":2323.309,"body":"Why is it important and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2321.179,"endTime":2323.309,"body":"when do you look at it?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2323.849,"endTime":2324.6290000000004,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2324.6290000000004,"endTime":2328.289,"body":"I, now that I run Projectworks,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2324.6290000000004,"endTime":2328.289,"body":"we're all about metrics, so"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2328.5890000000004,"endTime":2330.0,"body":"this is, for me, this is fun."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2330.0,"endTime":2333.75,"body":"So gross margin is"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2330.0,"endTime":2333.75,"body":"really at the core of how"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2333.75,"endTime":2334.914,"body":"healthy is your business."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2335.664,"endTime":2338.724,"body":"So the way to think about it"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2335.664,"endTime":2338.724,"body":"is for the revenue that you're"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2338.724,"endTime":2344.154,"body":"getting, what is the profit"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2338.724,"endTime":2344.154,"body":"you're making on a given area?"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2344.4840000000004,"endTime":2346.494,"body":"And actually, I think to really"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2344.4840000000004,"endTime":2346.494,"body":"understand that you need to"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2346.494,"endTime":2348.355,"body":"separate it from project margin."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2348.835,"endTime":2351.384,"body":"So when you run a"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2348.835,"endTime":2351.384,"body":"single project, it's"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2351.384,"endTime":2352.434,"body":"a very simple thing."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2352.434,"endTime":2355.9440000000004,"body":"You have the billable revenue"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2352.434,"endTime":2355.9440000000004,"body":"coming in, the cost of the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2355.9440000000004,"endTime":2359.065,"body":"people, and possibly there's"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2355.9440000000004,"endTime":2359.065,"body":"some other direct expenses"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2359.065,"endTime":2360.4440000000004,"body":"that you need for that project."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2360.744,"endTime":2362.815,"body":"As simple as that,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2360.744,"endTime":2362.815,"body":"the project margin is."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2363.255,"endTime":2365.864,"body":"The difference between how much"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2363.255,"endTime":2365.864,"body":"revenue you get and your cost."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2366.315,"endTime":2369.645,"body":"If you take zoom out a little"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2366.315,"endTime":2369.645,"body":"bit, as we talked about earlier,"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2370.005,"endTime":2373.6940000000004,"body":"take five projects and add up"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2370.005,"endTime":2373.6940000000004,"body":"all of their project margin."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2374.114,"endTime":2376.815,"body":"The other costs you need to"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2374.114,"endTime":2376.815,"body":"add in for gross margin are"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2376.815,"endTime":2379.844,"body":"other people that, or other"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2376.815,"endTime":2379.844,"body":"costs for delivering your work."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2379.844,"endTime":2382.364,"body":"So it could be your leadership"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2379.844,"endTime":2382.364,"body":"of a given practice."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2382.695,"endTime":2385.965,"body":"It could be people who are often"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2382.695,"endTime":2385.965,"body":"billable but are not currently."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2386.204,"endTime":2389.384,"body":"They all get thrown into the"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2386.204,"endTime":2389.384,"body":"cost side of gross margin."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2389.384,"endTime":2392.445,"body":"So it's all your account"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2389.384,"endTime":2392.445,"body":"revenue, minus all your account"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2392.445,"endTime":2394.485,"body":"costs and your practice costs."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2394.844,"endTime":2398.715,"body":"And so if you have a great gross"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2394.844,"endTime":2398.715,"body":"margin, that means the core"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2398.715,"endTime":2399.795,"body":"of your business is healthy."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2399.795,"endTime":2402.105,"body":"You might still spend too"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2399.795,"endTime":2402.105,"body":"much money on marketing"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2402.105,"endTime":2405.434,"body":"and sales or finance and"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2402.105,"endTime":2405.434,"body":"accounting, but that's a"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2405.434,"endTime":2406.545,"body":"different part of the margin."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2406.545,"endTime":2407.925,"body":"This is the core"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2406.545,"endTime":2407.925,"body":"of your business."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2407.925,"endTime":2408.914,"body":"If this is good."},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2409.289,"endTime":2410.88,"body":"Then you're in great"},{"speaker":"Mark Orttung","startTime":2409.289,"endTime":2410.88,"body":"shape as a company."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2411.27,"endTime":2413.01,"body":"I love that as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2411.27,"endTime":2413.01,"body":"I sort of zoomed out to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2413.01,"endTime":2414.0,"body":"see the rest of the puzzle."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2414.0,"endTime":2414.27,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2414.48,"endTime":2417.78,"body":"Talked about like individual"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2414.48,"endTime":2417.78,"body":"product profitability doesn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2417.78,"endTime":2421.71,"body":"mean that the whole business"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2417.78,"endTime":2421.71,"body":"is going to be healthy and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2421.71,"endTime":2422.67,"body":"there's other things, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2422.67,"endTime":2425.25,"body":"We talk a lot about utilization"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2422.67,"endTime":2425.25,"body":"and billable time and for all"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2425.25,"endTime":2427.71,"body":"the folks who are billable, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2425.25,"endTime":2427.71,"body":"there's also folks who aren't."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2428.009,"endTime":2429.659,"body":"And yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2428.009,"endTime":2429.659,"body":"impacts the overall."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2430.259,"endTime":2432.3590000000004,"body":"Pam, do you discuss gross"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2430.259,"endTime":2432.3590000000004,"body":"margin in your role?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2433.02,"endTime":2433.77,"body":"Sure do."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2433.9190000000003,"endTime":2435.059,"body":"Yeah, all the time."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2435.4190000000003,"endTime":2438.449,"body":"I think, I mean, mark talked"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2435.4190000000003,"endTime":2438.449,"body":"a lot about gross margin"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2438.449,"endTime":2439.6490000000003,"body":"at an organizational level."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2440.0240000000003,"endTime":2443.114,"body":"I think there are various, I'm"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2440.0240000000003,"endTime":2443.114,"body":"literally looking through the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2443.114,"endTime":2445.034,"body":"rest of the metrics to make"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2443.114,"endTime":2445.034,"body":"sure we're not gonna cover this."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2445.034,"endTime":2445.364,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2445.3940000000002,"endTime":2445.7540000000004,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2445.7540000000004,"endTime":2450.7940000000003,"body":"So understanding margin as"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2445.7540000000004,"endTime":2450.7940000000003,"body":"you can affect it as a project"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2450.7940000000003,"endTime":2454.034,"body":"manager or as a program"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2450.7940000000003,"endTime":2454.034,"body":"manager, or as a practice"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2454.034,"endTime":2455.204,"body":"lead is really important too."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2455.204,"endTime":2455.534,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2455.804,"endTime":2459.8540000000003,"body":"There are various layers of"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2455.804,"endTime":2459.8540000000003,"body":"managing margin as well, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2459.8540000000003,"endTime":2462.1040000000003,"body":"There is an account level"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2459.8540000000003,"endTime":2462.1040000000003,"body":"margin, and maybe that is"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2462.1040000000003,"endTime":2464.654,"body":"something that you should start"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2462.1040000000003,"endTime":2464.654,"body":"tracking at a program or an"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2464.654,"endTime":2467.474,"body":"account level if that's the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2464.654,"endTime":2467.474,"body":"way the organization is set up."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2467.804,"endTime":2468.434,"body":"But."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2469.094,"endTime":2470.8340000000003,"body":"No, we're looking at"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2469.094,"endTime":2470.8340000000003,"body":"margin all the time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2471.1940000000004,"endTime":2471.4640000000004,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2471.9440000000004,"endTime":2472.304,"body":"Love it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2472.784,"endTime":2475.934,"body":"Maybe I'll shift on to the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2472.784,"endTime":2475.934,"body":"next one, utilization rate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2475.934,"endTime":2477.6440000000002,"body":"and utilization target."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2478.0640000000003,"endTime":2481.184,"body":"Pam, I'm gonna throw"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2478.0640000000003,"endTime":2481.184,"body":"to you on this one."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2481.4840000000004,"endTime":2482.384,"body":"What does it mean to you?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2482.654,"endTime":2484.0040000000004,"body":"Why is it important and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2482.654,"endTime":2484.0040000000004,"body":"when do you look at it?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2484.3940000000002,"endTime":2485.924,"body":"Okay, so I"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2484.3940000000002,"endTime":2485.924,"body":"got the one that we all hate."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2486.284,"endTime":2487.574,"body":"I look at it every day."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2487.9790000000003,"endTime":2489.809,"body":"I wanna back us up a little"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2487.9790000000003,"endTime":2489.809,"body":"bit on this one because"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2489.809,"endTime":2495.449,"body":"it's, this is one where"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2489.809,"endTime":2495.449,"body":"everybody in a billable role"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2495.449,"endTime":2497.1890000000003,"body":"feels the pain of it, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2497.489,"endTime":2500.279,"body":"It's this like looming"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2497.489,"endTime":2500.279,"body":"gray cloud of like, but I"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2500.279,"endTime":2501.539,"body":"have a billability target."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2501.539,"endTime":2503.639,"body":"I have a utilization"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2501.539,"endTime":2503.639,"body":"target that I have to hit."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2503.6690000000003,"endTime":2505.409,"body":"I need more work"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2503.6690000000003,"endTime":2505.409,"body":"because of this."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2506.224,"endTime":2509.2540000000004,"body":"We sometimes forget that"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2506.224,"endTime":2509.2540000000004,"body":"it's not just a target"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2509.2540000000004,"endTime":2510.184,"body":"that's tied to you."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2510.184,"endTime":2514.7740000000003,"body":"It's something that then informs"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2510.184,"endTime":2514.7740000000003,"body":"a lot of the revenue targets."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2514.7740000000003,"endTime":2517.264,"body":"A lot of the decisions that we"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2514.7740000000003,"endTime":2517.264,"body":"make in as an organization, a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2517.264,"endTime":2522.3940000000002,"body":"lot of literally at a baseline,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2517.264,"endTime":2522.3940000000002,"body":"utilization targets are what we"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2522.3940000000002,"endTime":2526.9840000000004,"body":"use to then feed up all of the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2522.3940000000002,"endTime":2526.9840000000004,"body":"other metrics that determine"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2527.014,"endTime":2529.114,"body":"how much we need to sell in"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2527.014,"endTime":2529.114,"body":"a year to keep this business"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2529.114,"endTime":2530.9440000000004,"body":"going, the baseline, right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2531.244,"endTime":2534.1240000000003,"body":"And so it is really important"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2531.244,"endTime":2534.1240000000003,"body":"and it feeds everything else."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2534.645,"endTime":2538.454,"body":"So I know it sucks to track to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2534.645,"endTime":2538.454,"body":"like an 80% utilization target,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2538.724,"endTime":2540.1940000000004,"body":"but it's so important everyone."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2540.494,"endTime":2541.364,"body":"I look at it every day."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2541.6940000000004,"endTime":2543.9440000000004,"body":"I look at it through a"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2541.6940000000004,"endTime":2543.9440000000004,"body":"number of different lenses."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2543.9440000000004,"endTime":2546.674,"body":"I look at it around where"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2543.9440000000004,"endTime":2546.674,"body":"we're gonna assign new"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2546.674,"endTime":2550.0640000000003,"body":"projects and how utilized or"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2546.674,"endTime":2550.0640000000003,"body":"billable folks currently are."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2550.184,"endTime":2553.7540000000004,"body":"Or I look at it on a weekly"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2550.184,"endTime":2553.7540000000004,"body":"basis to see if allocated"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2553.7540000000004,"endTime":2556.154,"body":"to actuals are in line."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2556.364,"endTime":2559.034,"body":"If on paper it says that my"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2556.364,"endTime":2559.034,"body":"team is supposed to be 80%"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2559.034,"endTime":2561.914,"body":"billable and we're tracking to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2559.034,"endTime":2561.914,"body":"110, there is something wrong."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2562.289,"endTime":2563.759,"body":"I look at this"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2562.289,"endTime":2563.759,"body":"metric all the time."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2563.9990000000003,"endTime":2566.5190000000002,"body":"I think it's really important"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2563.9990000000003,"endTime":2566.5190000000002,"body":"for everybody to understand"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2566.5190000000002,"endTime":2568.8590000000004,"body":"what the word utilization"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2566.5190000000002,"endTime":2568.8590000000004,"body":"means to your organization."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2569.3390000000004,"endTime":2572.039,"body":"To some organizations,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2569.3390000000004,"endTime":2572.039,"body":"it is just billability."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2573.494,"endTime":2576.2540000000004,"body":"To some, it's a combination"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2573.494,"endTime":2576.2540000000004,"body":"of billability and"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2576.284,"endTime":2580.784,"body":"non-billable work around"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2576.284,"endTime":2580.784,"body":"growth, around sales counts"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2580.784,"endTime":2582.1940000000004,"body":"towards positive utilization."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2582.1940000000004,"endTime":2585.6440000000002,"body":"So understanding what your"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2582.1940000000004,"endTime":2585.6440000000002,"body":"organization actually uses to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2585.704,"endTime":2588.2540000000004,"body":"measure utilization is really"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2585.704,"endTime":2588.2540000000004,"body":"important so that you know"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2588.2540000000004,"endTime":2589.364,"body":"kind of what good looks like."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2589.664,"endTime":2591.974,"body":"The other thing to keep in"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2589.664,"endTime":2591.974,"body":"mind when you're looking at"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2591.974,"endTime":2595.184,"body":"this or when you're personally"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2591.974,"endTime":2595.184,"body":"tracking to utilization is."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2595.529,"endTime":2600.329,"body":"The timeframe over which your"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2595.529,"endTime":2600.329,"body":"organization views utilization."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2600.329,"endTime":2602.369,"body":"Is it a yearly target,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2600.329,"endTime":2602.369,"body":"an annual target?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2602.489,"endTime":2603.8390000000004,"body":"Is it a quarterly target?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2603.869,"endTime":2605.969,"body":"Is it a, every week"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2603.869,"endTime":2605.969,"body":"you're expected to"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2605.969,"endTime":2606.989,"body":"hit this utilization?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2607.349,"endTime":2610.079,"body":"Understanding kind of how they"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2607.349,"endTime":2610.079,"body":"use these metrics to inform"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2610.079,"endTime":2612.4790000000003,"body":"larger goals is also important."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2612.6890000000003,"endTime":2615.2690000000002,"body":"So, that's a question that you"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2612.6890000000003,"endTime":2615.2690000000002,"body":"can just ask your managers,"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2615.2690000000002,"endTime":2618.119,"body":"ask your practice leads, what"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2615.2690000000002,"endTime":2618.119,"body":"does utilization mean to us?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2618.119,"endTime":2619.3190000000004,"body":"How often are you looking at it?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2619.9640000000004,"endTime":2622.8140000000003,"body":"My utilization target is 85%."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2623.1440000000002,"endTime":2624.8540000000003,"body":"Am I expected to hit"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2623.1440000000002,"endTime":2624.8540000000003,"body":"that every single week?"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2624.8540000000003,"endTime":2626.474,"body":"Or is that something that we're"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2624.8540000000003,"endTime":2626.474,"body":"gonna look at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2626.474,"endTime":2627.8540000000003,"body":"year as my success metric?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2628.304,"endTime":2630.014,"body":"I also love"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2628.304,"endTime":2630.014,"body":"it as a one thing that we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2630.014,"endTime":2632.2340000000004,"body":"think we all know what it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2630.014,"endTime":2632.2340000000004,"body":"means, so we don't ask."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2632.6240000000003,"endTime":2634.364,"body":"So it's like that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2632.6240000000003,"endTime":2634.364,"body":"simple action of asking."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2634.5440000000003,"endTime":2636.764,"body":"Even just in the past, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2634.5440000000003,"endTime":2636.764,"body":"know, minute and a half, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2636.764,"endTime":2639.7290000000003,"body":"was like, oh, that's why I get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2636.764,"endTime":2639.7290000000003,"body":"asked about it all the time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2639.779,"endTime":2641.855,"body":"Not just at the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2639.779,"endTime":2641.855,"body":"like once a month or once"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2641.855,"endTime":2644.344,"body":"a quarter because it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2641.855,"endTime":2644.344,"body":"important for planning."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2644.914,"endTime":2646.235,"body":"Our panelists, let's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2644.914,"endTime":2646.235,"body":"give it up to them."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2646.534,"endTime":2647.284,"body":"Thank you everybody."},{"speaker":"Pam Butkowski","startTime":2647.289,"endTime":2647.699,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2648.005,"endTime":2648.545,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2649.954,"endTime":2651.275,"body":"Alright folks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2649.954,"endTime":2651.275,"body":"there you have it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2651.485,"endTime":2653.614,"body":"As always, if you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2651.485,"endTime":2653.614,"body":"join the conversation with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2653.614,"endTime":2656.014,"body":"over a thousand like-minded"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2653.614,"endTime":2656.014,"body":"project management champions,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2656.255,"endTime":2657.244,"body":"come join our collective!"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2657.545,"endTime":2660.434,"body":"Head over to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2657.545,"endTime":2660.434,"body":"thedpm.com/membership"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2660.454,"endTime":2660.994,"body":"to learn more."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2661.534,"endTime":2663.634,"body":"And if you like what you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2661.534,"endTime":2663.634,"body":"heard today, please subscribe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2663.634,"endTime":2666.635,"body":"and stay in touch on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2663.634,"endTime":2666.635,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2667.054,"endTime":2668.824,"body":"Until next time,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2667.054,"endTime":2668.824,"body":"thanks for listening."}]}