{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":22.661,"endTime":24.802,"body":"Hi, I'm Galen,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":22.661,"endTime":24.802,"body":"the Digital Project Manager's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":24.882,"endTime":27.452,"body":"Agentic AI-powered virtual"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":24.882,"endTime":27.452,"body":"podcast host avatar."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.121000000000002,"endTime":28.532,"body":"Just kidding."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.891000000000002,"endTime":31.121000000000002,"body":"But how much would you wanna"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":28.891000000000002,"endTime":31.121000000000002,"body":"bet that the way you experience"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.121000000000002,"endTime":34.111000000000004,"body":"this podcast would be different"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":31.121000000000002,"endTime":34.111000000000004,"body":"if you thought I was just an AI?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":34.562,"endTime":36.232,"body":"That's the topic we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":34.562,"endTime":36.232,"body":"diving into today, the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":36.232,"endTime":38.751000000000005,"body":"principles around what makes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":36.232,"endTime":38.751000000000005,"body":"a conversational interaction"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":38.751000000000005,"endTime":41.981,"body":"with AI good versus the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":38.751000000000005,"endTime":41.981,"body":"unhelpful, rage-inducing,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":42.022000000000006,"endTime":44.462,"body":"uncanny valley anti-examples"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":42.022000000000006,"endTime":44.462,"body":"that we see come up as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":44.462,"endTime":45.811,"body":"memes in our Instagram feed."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":46.161,"endTime":47.932,"body":"The fact of the matter is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":46.161,"endTime":47.932,"body":"that many of us are being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":47.932,"endTime":50.542,"body":"asked to create agents and AI"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":47.932,"endTime":50.542,"body":"teammates that our colleagues"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":50.542,"endTime":53.811,"body":"and stakeholders will interface"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":50.542,"endTime":53.811,"body":"with, and not just text-based"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":53.811,"endTime":55.361000000000004,"body":"tools, voice-based ones too."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":55.901,"endTime":58.642,"body":"But if what we build adds too"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":55.901,"endTime":58.642,"body":"much friction to the experience,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":58.881,"endTime":61.331,"body":"those tools could quickly find"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":58.881,"endTime":61.331,"body":"themselves gathering dust on the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":61.331,"endTime":63.002,"body":"shelf of failed AI experiments."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":63.401,"endTime":66.00200000000001,"body":"So to help us start designing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":63.401,"endTime":66.00200000000001,"body":"better interactions with AI,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":66.271,"endTime":68.271,"body":"I've brought in an expert"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":66.271,"endTime":68.271,"body":"working at the forefront"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":68.271,"endTime":69.221,"body":"of conversation design."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":69.642,"endTime":72.581,"body":"Together, we're gonna unpack"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":69.642,"endTime":72.581,"body":"the ROI of creating humanistic,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":72.581,"endTime":76.30199999999999,"body":"friction-free voice interactions"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":72.581,"endTime":76.30199999999999,"body":"with AI, explore where that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":76.30199999999999,"endTime":78.581,"body":"design effort starts to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":76.30199999999999,"endTime":78.581,"body":"encounter diminishing returns,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":78.912,"endTime":81.512,"body":"and reveal how some tiny"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":78.912,"endTime":81.512,"body":"tweaks can help you move away"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":81.512,"endTime":84.572,"body":"from that overly helpful,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":81.512,"endTime":84.572,"body":"people-pleasing LLM voice that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":84.662,"endTime":85.831,"body":"humans are beginning to hate."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":86.291,"endTime":87.072,"body":"Hope you enjoy the episode."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":92.118,"endTime":94.637,"body":"Welcome to The Digital Project"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":92.118,"endTime":94.637,"body":"Manager Podcast—the show that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":94.637,"endTime":97.168,"body":"helps delivery leaders work"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":94.637,"endTime":97.168,"body":"smarter, deliver smoother,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":97.288,"endTime":99.518,"body":"and lead their teams with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":97.288,"endTime":99.518,"body":"confidence in the age of AI."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":99.768,"endTime":101.807,"body":"I'm Galen, and every week"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":99.768,"endTime":101.807,"body":"we dive into real-world"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":101.807,"endTime":105.008,"body":"strategies, emerging trends,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":101.807,"endTime":105.008,"body":"proven frameworks, and the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":105.008,"endTime":107.168,"body":"occasional war story from"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":105.008,"endTime":107.168,"body":"the project front lines."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":107.437,"endTime":109.087,"body":"Whether you're steering"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":107.437,"endTime":109.087,"body":"massive transformation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":109.087,"endTime":111.738,"body":"projects, wrangling AI"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":109.087,"endTime":111.738,"body":"workflows, or just trying to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":111.738,"endTime":114.337,"body":"keep the chaos under control,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":111.738,"endTime":114.337,"body":"you're in the right place."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":114.777,"endTime":115.277,"body":"Let's get into it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":116.273,"endTime":119.223,"body":"Okay today, we're diving into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":116.273,"endTime":119.223,"body":"the role that conversation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":119.223,"endTime":122.194,"body":"design plays in how we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":119.223,"endTime":122.194,"body":"build trust with AI."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":122.554,"endTime":124.56400000000001,"body":"We'll be talking through"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":122.554,"endTime":124.56400000000001,"body":"the biggest mistakes that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":124.56400000000001,"endTime":127.734,"body":"teams make when designing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":124.56400000000001,"endTime":127.734,"body":"conversation-led AI experiences"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":127.884,"endTime":128.684,"body":"and how to fix them."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":129.043,"endTime":132.03300000000002,"body":"We'll be nerding out about why"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":129.043,"endTime":132.03300000000002,"body":"language and AI are somewhat"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":132.113,"endTime":134.543,"body":"complicated bedfellows,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":132.113,"endTime":134.543,"body":"and we'll be making some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":134.543,"endTime":138.644,"body":"predictions about how AI will"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":134.543,"endTime":138.644,"body":"talk to other AI in the future."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":139.084,"endTime":141.73399999999998,"body":"With me today is Oliver"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":139.084,"endTime":141.73399999999998,"body":"Shoulson, Agent Design and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":141.73399999999998,"endTime":143.164,"body":"Engineering Lead at PolyAI."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":143.834,"endTime":146.31400000000002,"body":"Oliver is a linguist and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":143.834,"endTime":146.31400000000002,"body":"conversational AI thought"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":146.31400000000002,"endTime":149.114,"body":"leader whose work sits right at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":146.31400000000002,"endTime":149.114,"body":"the intersection of language,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":149.324,"endTime":150.653,"body":"product design, and AI."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":151.074,"endTime":154.544,"body":"During his time at Yale, he"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":151.074,"endTime":154.544,"body":"focused on syntactic variation,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":154.734,"endTime":157.464,"body":"studying the way speakers"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":154.734,"endTime":157.464,"body":"construct and arrange sentences"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":157.464,"endTime":160.223,"body":"differently within the otherwise"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":157.464,"endTime":160.223,"body":"structured rules of language."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":160.373,"endTime":163.204,"body":"And that's become hyper-relevant"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":160.373,"endTime":163.204,"body":"today, as Oliver uses his"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":163.204,"endTime":166.344,"body":"role at PolyAI to help"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":163.204,"endTime":166.344,"body":"teams move beyond clunky"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":166.344,"endTime":169.153,"body":"scripts and uncanny valleys"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":166.344,"endTime":169.153,"body":"toward voice interactions"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":169.153,"endTime":171.973,"body":"with AI that actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":169.153,"endTime":171.973,"body":"feel natural and useful."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":172.414,"endTime":173.883,"body":"Oliver, thanks for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":172.414,"endTime":173.883,"body":"hanging out with me today."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":174.133,"endTime":175.083,"body":"Thank"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":174.133,"endTime":175.083,"body":"you so much for having me."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":175.083,"endTime":176.054,"body":"It's really great to be here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":176.223,"endTime":177.934,"body":"This is a really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":176.223,"endTime":177.934,"body":"interesting topic to me."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":177.934,"endTime":179.954,"body":"I loved our conversations"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":177.934,"endTime":179.954,"body":"leading up to this because I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":179.954,"endTime":181.014,"body":"got to nerd out a little bit."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":181.264,"endTime":184.294,"body":"Like, I studied a little bit"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":181.264,"endTime":184.294,"body":"of, like, English grammar and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":184.294,"endTime":185.834,"body":"some linguistics in university."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":185.834,"endTime":188.144,"body":"It was something that always,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":185.834,"endTime":188.144,"body":"like, captured my attention."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":188.144,"endTime":189.044,"body":"I went a different way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":189.044,"endTime":190.074,"body":"I went into film studies."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":190.283,"endTime":193.163,"body":"But as we've kind of walked"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":190.283,"endTime":193.163,"body":"down this path of, like, AI"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":193.163,"endTime":196.163,"body":"and chatbots, all of these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":193.163,"endTime":196.163,"body":"interactions that are more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":196.163,"endTime":198.974,"body":"fluid and they're not, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":196.163,"endTime":198.974,"body":"this rigid syntax, I've gotten"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":198.974,"endTime":200.203,"body":"really, like, back into it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":200.203,"endTime":202.144,"body":"So as soon as your name"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":200.203,"endTime":202.144,"body":"came up, I was like, \"Gosh,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":202.203,"endTime":202.993,"body":"I gotta talk to this guy.\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":203.273,"endTime":204.764,"body":"So I appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":204.794,"endTime":206.584,"body":"I do hope we go"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":204.794,"endTime":206.584,"body":"all over the map."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":206.803,"endTime":209.563,"body":"There's plenty of rabbit holes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":206.803,"endTime":209.563,"body":"that we can dive into, but I am"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":209.563,"endTime":212.214,"body":"a project manager, so just in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":209.563,"endTime":212.214,"body":"case, here's the roadmap that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":212.214,"endTime":213.203,"body":"I planned out for us today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":213.493,"endTime":216.264,"body":"To start us off, I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":213.493,"endTime":216.264,"body":"just, like, set the stage just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":216.264,"endTime":218.523,"body":"by hitting you with, like, a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":216.264,"endTime":218.523,"body":"big, hairy question that my"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":218.523,"endTime":219.773,"body":"listeners want your take on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":220.023,"endTime":222.033,"body":"But then I thought of maybe,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":220.023,"endTime":222.033,"body":"like, I'd zoom out and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":222.033,"endTime":223.124,"body":"talk about three things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":223.124,"endTime":225.794,"body":"Firstly, I wanted to talk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":223.124,"endTime":225.794,"body":"about why voice interactions"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":225.794,"endTime":229.243,"body":"with AI matter and how they're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":225.794,"endTime":229.243,"body":"making a tangible impact to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":229.243,"endTime":230.883,"body":"businesses and users today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":231.283,"endTime":234.093,"body":"Then I'd like to step through"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":231.283,"endTime":234.093,"body":"what makes a conversational"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":234.093,"endTime":237.224,"body":"interaction good and how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":234.093,"endTime":237.224,"body":"any teams building an AI"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":237.254,"endTime":240.423,"body":"agent or an AI teammate can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":237.254,"endTime":240.423,"body":"avoid that uncanny valley"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":240.423,"endTime":241.474,"body":"that makes users cringe."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":241.783,"endTime":243.624,"body":"And lastly, I'd just like to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":241.783,"endTime":243.624,"body":"get your take on the future"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":243.624,"endTime":246.314,"body":"of interaction design and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":243.624,"endTime":246.314,"body":"whether visuals might start"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":246.344,"endTime":249.243,"body":"maybe playing second fiddle"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":246.344,"endTime":249.243,"body":"to conversational language."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":249.50300000000001,"endTime":250.174,"body":"How does that sound to you?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":250.544,"endTime":251.294,"body":"Sounds great to me."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":251.603,"endTime":251.904,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":251.993,"endTime":252.844,"body":"Well, let's get into it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":253.014,"endTime":255.353,"body":"I thought I'd start off"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":253.014,"endTime":255.353,"body":"by asking one big, hairy"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":255.353,"endTime":257.523,"body":"question, but I'm gonna, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":255.353,"endTime":257.523,"body":"take a running start at it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":257.784,"endTime":259.993,"body":"because, like, my network,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":257.784,"endTime":259.993,"body":"the circles I travel in,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":259.993,"endTime":263.33299999999997,"body":"it's a bunch of people who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":259.993,"endTime":263.33299999999997,"body":"are digital professionals by"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":263.33299999999997,"endTime":266.324,"body":"trade, folks that, like, build"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":263.33299999999997,"endTime":266.324,"body":"websites or digital marketing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":266.324,"endTime":269.00300000000004,"body":"campaigns and, like, digital"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":266.324,"endTime":269.00300000000004,"body":"transformation strategies."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":269.193,"endTime":271.454,"body":"And so our ears have been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":269.193,"endTime":271.454,"body":"perking up when, like, the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":271.454,"endTime":273.624,"body":"headlines have been saying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":271.454,"endTime":273.624,"body":"that websites as we know them"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":273.624,"endTime":276.594,"body":"are about to change forever,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":273.624,"endTime":276.594,"body":"thanks, at least in part, to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":276.624,"endTime":279.73400000000004,"body":"the way AI has been embedded"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":276.624,"endTime":279.73400000000004,"body":"into the web browsing experience"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":279.73400000000004,"endTime":282.47299999999996,"body":"with things like AI overviews"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":279.73400000000004,"endTime":282.47299999999996,"body":"and AI browsers and AI"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":282.47299999999996,"endTime":284.13300000000004,"body":"copilots, et cetera, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":284.264,"endTime":287.47299999999996,"body":"So I thought I'd ask, how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":284.264,"endTime":287.47299999999996,"body":"far are we from an internet"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":287.514,"endTime":291.404,"body":"where conversation replaces"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":287.514,"endTime":291.404,"body":"navigation, and what might"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":291.443,"endTime":293.38300000000004,"body":"hold us back from going there?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":293.75699999999995,"endTime":294.058,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":294.097,"endTime":297.20799999999997,"body":"I mean, I think there's 100%"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":294.097,"endTime":297.20799999999997,"body":"going to be ways in which the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":297.20799999999997,"endTime":301.687,"body":"way we're designing webpages"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":297.20799999999997,"endTime":301.687,"body":"and the internet as a whole"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":301.928,"endTime":305.38800000000003,"body":"is geared toward making it"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":301.928,"endTime":305.38800000000003,"body":"navigable for AI agents."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":305.38800000000003,"endTime":306.797,"body":"Like, I think that's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":305.38800000000003,"endTime":306.797,"body":"inevitable, and that's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":306.797,"endTime":307.72799999999995,"body":"probably a good thing."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":307.918,"endTime":310.078,"body":"That's gonna ultimately"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":307.918,"endTime":310.078,"body":"increase the efficiency with"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":310.078,"endTime":313.398,"body":"which our agents and assistants"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":310.078,"endTime":313.398,"body":"can get tasks done for us."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":313.53700000000003,"endTime":316.96799999999996,"body":"That said, I don't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":313.53700000000003,"endTime":316.96799999999996,"body":"know that I want or anyone that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":316.96799999999996,"endTime":321.13800000000003,"body":"I know wants an internet that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":316.96799999999996,"endTime":321.13800000000003,"body":"you only talk to and never see."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":321.35799999999995,"endTime":323.51800000000003,"body":"I guess I would say that,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":321.35799999999995,"endTime":323.51800000000003,"body":"you know, I think the task"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":323.51800000000003,"endTime":326.12800000000004,"body":"of designers, of interface"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":323.51800000000003,"endTime":326.12800000000004,"body":"designers, of interaction"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":326.12800000000004,"endTime":327.97799999999995,"body":"designers more generally,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":326.12800000000004,"endTime":327.97799999999995,"body":"whether you're talking about"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":327.97799999999995,"endTime":331.068,"body":"conversation interfaces or"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":327.97799999999995,"endTime":331.068,"body":"visual interfaces, is to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":331.27700000000004,"endTime":335.77700000000004,"body":"use our understanding of the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":331.27700000000004,"endTime":335.77700000000004,"body":"cognitive biases and cognitive"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":335.77700000000004,"endTime":338.76800000000003,"body":"architecture that humans have"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":335.77700000000004,"endTime":338.76800000000003,"body":"for interacting with the real"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":338.76800000000003,"endTime":341.97799999999995,"body":"world to then make intuitive"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":338.76800000000003,"endTime":341.97799999999995,"body":"interfaces for interacting with"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":342.038,"endTime":343.207,"body":"the digital or virtual world."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":343.207,"endTime":345.797,"body":"So, you know, for a long"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":343.207,"endTime":345.797,"body":"time, we've had really clever"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":345.98699999999997,"endTime":348.35799999999995,"body":"graphical user interface"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":345.98699999999997,"endTime":348.35799999999995,"body":"designers who found ways of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":348.35799999999995,"endTime":351.068,"body":"basically appealing to and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":348.35799999999995,"endTime":351.068,"body":"simulating, like, physical"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":351.068,"endTime":353.148,"body":"world interactions on a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":351.068,"endTime":353.148,"body":"webpage in a way that made"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":353.148,"endTime":354.35799999999995,"body":"those navigations intuitive."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":354.35799999999995,"endTime":357.437,"body":"So, like, slider bars and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":354.35799999999995,"endTime":357.437,"body":"switches and buttons and these"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":357.437,"endTime":359.46799999999996,"body":"things that we're used to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":357.437,"endTime":359.46799999999996,"body":"interacting with physically"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":359.63800000000003,"endTime":362.02700000000004,"body":"and that we have, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":359.63800000000003,"endTime":362.02700000000004,"body":"cognitive architecture already"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":362.02700000000004,"endTime":364.22799999999995,"body":"in place to teach us how to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":362.02700000000004,"endTime":364.22799999999995,"body":"navigate the world in that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":364.22799999999995,"endTime":367.038,"body":"physical way, we can then"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":364.22799999999995,"endTime":367.038,"body":"just sort of apply to this"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":367.038,"endTime":369.197,"body":"digital interface, and then"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":367.038,"endTime":369.197,"body":"it becomes really intuitive."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":369.197,"endTime":371.307,"body":"We don't have to learn a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":369.197,"endTime":371.307,"body":"whole bunch of new stuff"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":371.337,"endTime":372.207,"body":"for how to interact with it."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":372.428,"endTime":374.86800000000005,"body":"And so I think that with the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":372.428,"endTime":374.86800000000005,"body":"capabilities of conversational"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":374.86800000000005,"endTime":376.85799999999995,"body":"interfaces, we're really,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":374.86800000000005,"endTime":376.85799999999995,"body":"like, doing the same thing."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":376.85799999999995,"endTime":378.587,"body":"We're just appealing to a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":376.85799999999995,"endTime":378.587,"body":"different set of cognitive"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":378.587,"endTime":380.928,"body":"architecture, which is our"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":378.587,"endTime":380.928,"body":"linguistic faculties, which"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":381.00800000000004,"endTime":383.457,"body":"until very recently, we"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":381.00800000000004,"endTime":383.457,"body":"didn't really have a way to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":383.457,"endTime":385.898,"body":"simulate at all realistically."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":386.057,"endTime":388.16700000000003,"body":"That's been sort of the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":386.057,"endTime":388.16700000000003,"body":"big breakthrough of large"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":388.16700000000003,"endTime":390.50800000000004,"body":"language models is that even"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":388.16700000000003,"endTime":390.50800000000004,"body":"if they are these sort of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":390.50800000000004,"endTime":394.818,"body":"massive churning probabilistic"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":390.50800000000004,"endTime":394.818,"body":"engines, they can, with enough"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":394.818,"endTime":397.828,"body":"data and enough training and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":394.818,"endTime":397.828,"body":"enough supervision, produce"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":397.828,"endTime":400.538,"body":"what feels like natural human"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":397.828,"endTime":400.538,"body":"language for the first time."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":400.697,"endTime":402.788,"body":"And so that just sort of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":400.697,"endTime":402.788,"body":"gives us another avenue"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":402.788,"endTime":404.37699999999995,"body":"of a way to interact with"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":402.788,"endTime":404.37699999999995,"body":"something, but I don't think"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":404.37699999999995,"endTime":407.16700000000003,"body":"there's anything inherently"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":404.37699999999995,"endTime":407.16700000000003,"body":"better about conversation"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":407.22799999999995,"endTime":409.188,"body":"than graphical interfaces."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":409.298,"endTime":411.52700000000004,"body":"Like, I think they just"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":409.298,"endTime":411.52700000000004,"body":"appeal to different parts"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":411.52700000000004,"endTime":412.61800000000005,"body":"of the human experience."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":412.847,"endTime":414.24800000000005,"body":"I really like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":412.847,"endTime":414.24800000000005,"body":"that tie-in with, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":414.24800000000005,"endTime":416.65700000000004,"body":"real world things, and,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":414.24800000000005,"endTime":416.65700000000004,"body":"like, I abstract it away."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":416.65700000000004,"endTime":418.837,"body":"I'm a digital guy, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":416.65700000000004,"endTime":418.837,"body":"like, \"Oh, yeah, buttons and,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":418.837,"endTime":421.597,"body":"like, you know, radio buttons,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":418.837,"endTime":421.597,"body":"checkboxes, and sliders.\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":421.597,"endTime":423.948,"body":"I'm like, I haven't even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":421.597,"endTime":423.948,"body":"equated them recently until"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":423.948,"endTime":425.327,"body":"like, oh, yeah, of course,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":423.948,"endTime":425.327,"body":"we have those in real life"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":425.327,"endTime":427.928,"body":"too, like physical things,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":425.327,"endTime":427.928,"body":"switches and things that we,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":427.928,"endTime":429.178,"body":"like, interact with that way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":429.297,"endTime":430.178,"body":"And then agreed."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":430.178,"endTime":432.35699999999997,"body":"I think it makes tons of sense"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":430.178,"endTime":432.35699999999997,"body":"then to be like, \"Okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":432.558,"endTime":435.058,"body":"we already have this language"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":432.558,"endTime":435.058,"body":"faculty, and we can use it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":435.08799999999997,"endTime":437.288,"body":"as part of an experience to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":435.08799999999997,"endTime":437.288,"body":"interact with something.\" But"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":437.288,"endTime":439.957,"body":"it's not necessarily going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":437.288,"endTime":439.957,"body":"to be better or it's not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":439.957,"endTime":441.707,"body":"going to replace necessarily."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":441.707,"endTime":444.76700000000005,"body":"It's just that we have these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":441.707,"endTime":444.76700000000005,"body":"tools, like, available to us."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":445.12800000000004,"endTime":445.308,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":445.308,"endTime":447.33799999999997,"body":"You know, I consider myself"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":445.308,"endTime":447.33799999999997,"body":"a very visual person."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":447.33799999999997,"endTime":449.76800000000003,"body":"I'm sort of a visual"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":447.33799999999997,"endTime":449.76800000000003,"body":"artist in my, like, other"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":449.76800000000003,"endTime":450.70799999999997,"body":"life outside of work."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":450.75800000000004,"endTime":451.148,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":451.178,"endTime":452.698,"body":"And so I"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":451.178,"endTime":452.698,"body":"would be really sad actually"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":452.698,"endTime":456.38800000000003,"body":"if, like, the world of webpage"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":452.698,"endTime":456.38800000000003,"body":"design and graphic design,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":456.418,"endTime":458.558,"body":"like, started playing second"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":456.418,"endTime":458.558,"body":"fiddle to conversation."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":458.76800000000003,"endTime":460.58799999999997,"body":"That's certainly not my"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":458.76800000000003,"endTime":460.58799999999997,"body":"goal as a conversation"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":460.58799999999997,"endTime":462.908,"body":"designer, and I hope that's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":460.58799999999997,"endTime":462.908,"body":"not anyone else's goal."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":463.057,"endTime":465.23800000000006,"body":"I think that those are both"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":463.057,"endTime":465.23800000000006,"body":"beautiful things that require"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":465.23800000000006,"endTime":467.528,"body":"unique and interesting skill"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":465.23800000000006,"endTime":467.528,"body":"sets, and I hope that they"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":467.528,"endTime":468.567,"body":"both continue to thrive."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":468.807,"endTime":470.797,"body":"What I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":468.807,"endTime":470.797,"body":"about is, like, our sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":470.797,"endTime":473.557,"body":"anxiety goes into, like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":470.797,"endTime":473.557,"body":"but websites, like, people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":473.557,"endTime":474.778,"body":"aren't visiting them anymore."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":474.778,"endTime":477.308,"body":"Like, you know, part of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":474.778,"endTime":477.308,"body":"economy around a website is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":477.308,"endTime":479.828,"body":"that, you know, there's clicks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":477.308,"endTime":479.828,"body":"people visit the actual site"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":479.828,"endTime":482.058,"body":"itself, see the interface."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":482.168,"endTime":485.937,"body":"You know, there's talk right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":482.168,"endTime":485.937,"body":"now of the AI overviews or some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":485.937,"endTime":490.687,"body":"other mechanism kind of being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":485.937,"endTime":490.687,"body":"like a, gosh, like an in-between"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":490.687,"endTime":493.567,"body":"website that is not under the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":490.687,"endTime":493.567,"body":"control of the website owners"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":493.73800000000006,"endTime":497.347,"body":"that may have a different"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":493.73800000000006,"endTime":497.347,"body":"interaction design than the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":497.37800000000004,"endTime":500.25699999999995,"body":"intention of that business,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":497.37800000000004,"endTime":500.25699999999995,"body":"which may involve some of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":500.25699999999995,"endTime":503.61699999999996,"body":"conversation because you might"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":500.25699999999995,"endTime":503.61699999999996,"body":"be addressing, you know, Gemini"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":503.61699999999996,"endTime":507.86699999999996,"body":"or, you know, our LLM of choice"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":503.61699999999996,"endTime":507.86699999999996,"body":"to sort of ask a question."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":508.08799999999997,"endTime":509.88800000000003,"body":"I guess maybe I thought"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":508.08799999999997,"endTime":509.88800000000003,"body":"I'd go there just a bit,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":509.88800000000003,"endTime":512.808,"body":"like, off the cuff, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":509.88800000000003,"endTime":512.808,"body":"you are a visual person."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":512.808,"endTime":514.888,"body":"You know, you appreciate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":512.808,"endTime":514.888,"body":"visual design."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":514.888,"endTime":515.708,"body":"You are a linguist."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":515.708,"endTime":517.687,"body":"You appreciate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":515.708,"endTime":517.687,"body":"conversation design."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":517.857,"endTime":520.467,"body":"And then there's that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":517.857,"endTime":520.467,"body":"intention of, like, someone"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":520.467,"endTime":523.198,"body":"who's created an experience,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":520.467,"endTime":523.198,"body":"and then there might be an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":523.198,"endTime":525.748,"body":"intermediary that abstracts"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":523.198,"endTime":525.748,"body":"that into something else."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":526.107,"endTime":527.367,"body":"Is that okay?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":527.367,"endTime":528.537,"body":"Is that a bit of a compromise?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":528.537,"endTime":529.458,"body":"Could that be a good thing?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":529.896,"endTime":530.306,"body":"Yeah, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":530.306,"endTime":533.086,"body":"I actually haven't thought about"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":530.306,"endTime":533.086,"body":"this a ton, so this is also"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":533.086,"endTime":534.326,"body":"totally off the cuff for me."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":534.4159999999999,"endTime":538.146,"body":"I would hope that, like, this"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":534.4159999999999,"endTime":538.146,"body":"becomes that sort of in-between"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":538.146,"endTime":541.576,"body":"layer becomes sort of a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":538.146,"endTime":541.576,"body":"standard part of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":541.776,"endTime":544.5559999999999,"body":"branding and web development"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":541.776,"endTime":544.5559999999999,"body":"for businesses so that they get"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":544.5559999999999,"endTime":546.886,"body":"to exercise a certain amount"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":544.5559999999999,"endTime":546.886,"body":"of control over that as well."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":546.915,"endTime":548.9259999999999,"body":"Like, you know, we'll get"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":546.915,"endTime":548.9259999999999,"body":"into this, I'm sure, but one"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":548.9259999999999,"endTime":550.905,"body":"of the things that businesses"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":548.9259999999999,"endTime":550.905,"body":"are really excited about"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":550.905,"endTime":552.9359999999999,"body":"when it comes to designing"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":550.905,"endTime":552.9359999999999,"body":"a conversational interface,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":553.0749999999999,"endTime":554.876,"body":"as they have been doing"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":553.0749999999999,"endTime":554.876,"body":"for their visual interfaces"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":554.876,"endTime":558.146,"body":"forever, is this opportunity"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":554.876,"endTime":558.146,"body":"to develop and present a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":558.266,"endTime":559.476,"body":"unified brand identity."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":559.696,"endTime":563.8149999999999,"body":"And I totally hear you that the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":559.696,"endTime":563.8149999999999,"body":"worry that somehow your brand"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":563.8149999999999,"endTime":567.5849999999999,"body":"identity is getting lost or"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":563.8149999999999,"endTime":567.5849999999999,"body":"abstracted or mischaracterized"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":567.5849999999999,"endTime":570.9549999999999,"body":"in that in-between layer, and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":567.5849999999999,"endTime":570.9549999999999,"body":"then, I don't know, kind of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":571.006,"endTime":573.295,"body":"either gets disappeared or"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":571.006,"endTime":573.295,"body":"mutated into something you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":573.295,"endTime":575.9549999999999,"body":"don't want it to be, I could see"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":573.295,"endTime":575.9549999999999,"body":"that as being a real concern."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":576.025,"endTime":578.545,"body":"I would imagine that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":576.025,"endTime":578.545,"body":"agencies that are building"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":578.545,"endTime":581.8349999999999,"body":"websites for companies or"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":578.545,"endTime":581.8349999999999,"body":"building digital presences for"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":581.8349999999999,"endTime":584.4259999999999,"body":"companies, like, are looking"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":581.8349999999999,"endTime":584.4259999999999,"body":"into ways that they can, you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":584.4259999999999,"endTime":587.466,"body":"know, continue to exert control"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":584.4259999999999,"endTime":587.466,"body":"over that sort of AI summary"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":587.466,"endTime":590.876,"body":"or AI-targeted in-between layer"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":587.466,"endTime":590.876,"body":"that you're talking about."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":591.2049999999999,"endTime":591.626,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":591.626,"endTime":593.1759999999999,"body":"It's like the brand"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":591.626,"endTime":593.1759999999999,"body":"voice is part of it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":593.1759999999999,"endTime":594.385,"body":"It's part of the experience."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":594.385,"endTime":597.586,"body":"It's literally we're asking an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":594.385,"endTime":597.586,"body":"assistant or an intermediary"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":597.586,"endTime":599.406,"body":"to be like, \"Can you read"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":597.586,"endTime":599.406,"body":"me the site? Just summarize"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":599.406,"endTime":601.045,"body":"it, you know, just tell"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":599.406,"endTime":601.045,"body":"me, you know, what buttons"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":601.045,"endTime":603.3249999999999,"body":"are there.\" And we're not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":601.045,"endTime":603.3249999999999,"body":"getting, like, the actual"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":603.4159999999999,"endTime":604.956,"body":"experience as it was designed."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":604.956,"endTime":608.0559999999999,"body":"We're getting information"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":604.956,"endTime":608.0559999999999,"body":"which, you know, may be fast"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":608.0559999999999,"endTime":610.726,"body":"and convenient, but, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":608.0559999999999,"endTime":610.726,"body":"definitely not something that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":610.726,"endTime":614.3159999999999,"body":"is maybe even as intentional"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":610.726,"endTime":614.3159999999999,"body":"as if it was the experience"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":614.505,"endTime":618.035,"body":"from the company, which maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":614.505,"endTime":618.035,"body":"actually is a good segue."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":618.425,"endTime":621.026,"body":"Unintentional segue, but I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":618.425,"endTime":621.026,"body":"wonder if maybe we could zoom"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":621.026,"endTime":624.346,"body":"out a little bit because, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":621.026,"endTime":624.346,"body":"know, your work at PolyAI, it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":624.346,"endTime":628.615,"body":"revolves around voice-driven AI"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":624.346,"endTime":628.615,"body":"user experiences, and in some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":628.615,"endTime":632.336,"body":"cases, like, that is standing in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":628.615,"endTime":632.336,"body":"for having someone being around"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":632.336,"endTime":635.406,"body":"to, say, answer the phone at,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":632.336,"endTime":635.406,"body":"for example, like a restaurant"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":635.406,"endTime":637.1659999999999,"body":"or a bank or a health clinic."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":637.365,"endTime":639.275,"body":"I'm just wondering, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":637.365,"endTime":639.275,"body":"what are you seeing at PolyAI"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":639.706,"endTime":644.0559999999999,"body":"in terms of where voice AI"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":639.706,"endTime":644.0559999999999,"body":"is delivering real tangible"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":644.0559999999999,"endTime":647.785,"body":"value for businesses and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":644.0559999999999,"endTime":647.785,"body":"customers today, and how"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":647.785,"endTime":650.586,"body":"is that experience, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":647.785,"endTime":650.586,"body":"fundamentally different from"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":650.726,"endTime":653.295,"body":"maybe just chatbot experiences"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":650.726,"endTime":653.295,"body":"that we've seen over the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":653.295,"endTime":654.226,"body":"past, like, decade or so?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":654.755,"endTime":657.775,"body":"You can ask"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":654.755,"endTime":657.775,"body":"any contact center manager,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":657.775,"endTime":659.896,"body":"contact center leader,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":657.775,"endTime":659.896,"body":"customer experience leader"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":659.896,"endTime":662.516,"body":"in, you know, a variety of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":659.896,"endTime":662.516,"body":"verticals, and they'll tell"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":662.516,"endTime":664.256,"body":"you, they'll tell you that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":662.516,"endTime":664.256,"body":"people still pick up the phone."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":664.516,"endTime":666.456,"body":"Now, like, you might not"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":664.516,"endTime":666.456,"body":"think that's the case."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":666.456,"endTime":668.406,"body":"You might know a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":666.456,"endTime":668.406,"body":"who hate making phone calls."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":668.406,"endTime":669.226,"body":"I certainly do."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":669.4649999999999,"endTime":672.3159999999999,"body":"But the phone is absolutely"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":669.4649999999999,"endTime":672.3159999999999,"body":"still, like, a primary"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":672.3159999999999,"endTime":673.855,"body":"channel for customer support."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":674.045,"endTime":676.506,"body":"And so sort of as you hinted"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":674.045,"endTime":676.506,"body":"at, one of the things that,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":676.506,"endTime":678.88,"body":"one of the big pieces of value,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":676.506,"endTime":678.88,"body":"obviously, that- clients are"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":678.88,"endTime":681.72,"body":"seeing with the implementation"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":678.88,"endTime":681.72,"body":"of this kind of voice solution"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":681.8,"endTime":685.4499999999999,"body":"is the ability to address,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":681.8,"endTime":685.4499999999999,"body":"you know, heavy seasonality,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":685.68,"endTime":690.17,"body":"volume shifts, and just general"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":685.68,"endTime":690.17,"body":"churn in contact center work."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":690.29,"endTime":693.26,"body":"So for example, one of our"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":690.29,"endTime":693.26,"body":"longest standing clients is a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":693.26,"endTime":696.2389999999999,"body":"big retail client, and obviously"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":693.26,"endTime":696.2389999999999,"body":"their big season is around"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":696.2389999999999,"endTime":698.4399999999999,"body":"the holidays, specifically"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":696.2389999999999,"endTime":698.4399999999999,"body":"Black Friday when everyone's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":698.4399999999999,"endTime":699.52,"body":"buying their Christmas gifts."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":699.8,"endTime":702.4889999999999,"body":"And since working with us,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":699.8,"endTime":702.4889999999999,"body":"for the first time ever, they"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":702.4889999999999,"endTime":704.9889999999999,"body":"were able to give their call"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":702.4889999999999,"endTime":704.9889999999999,"body":"center workers Black Friday off"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":704.9889999999999,"endTime":705.85,"body":"in addition to Thanksgiving."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":706.069,"endTime":706.2289999999999,"body":"Oh, wow."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":706.2289999999999,"endTime":707.9889999999999,"body":"So that kind"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":706.2289999999999,"endTime":707.9889999999999,"body":"of thing, you know, brings"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":707.9889999999999,"endTime":711.4,"body":"value not just to the client"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":707.9889999999999,"endTime":711.4,"body":"and to the customer, but also"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":711.4,"endTime":712.639,"body":"to those contact center workers."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":712.639,"endTime":716.0,"body":"You know, I think about my"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":712.639,"endTime":716.0,"body":"work at Poly as supplementing"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":716.0,"endTime":719.11,"body":"human contact centers, not"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":716.0,"endTime":719.11,"body":"necessarily replacing them."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":719.36,"endTime":723.31,"body":"I think that there will"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":719.36,"endTime":723.31,"body":"always be problems or needs"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":723.31,"endTime":725.97,"body":"that customers have that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":723.31,"endTime":725.97,"body":"require a human touch."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":726.189,"endTime":728.819,"body":"And so I think that what most"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":726.189,"endTime":728.819,"body":"of our clients want and what"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":728.819,"endTime":733.52,"body":"we want to provide is a way of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":728.819,"endTime":733.52,"body":"automating and reserving those"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":733.52,"endTime":736.9499999999999,"body":"contact center resources for"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":733.52,"endTime":736.9499999999999,"body":"those really crucial human touch"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":736.9499999999999,"endTime":741.049,"body":"necessary complex user intents"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":736.9499999999999,"endTime":741.049,"body":"and requirements, even if that's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":741.049,"endTime":743.879,"body":"the vast majority of the actual"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":741.049,"endTime":743.879,"body":"things that people call in with."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":743.879,"endTime":745.7389999999999,"body":"You know, the majority of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":743.879,"endTime":745.7389999999999,"body":"people call in with the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":745.7389999999999,"endTime":747.449,"body":"same 20% of the problems."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":747.62,"endTime":749.76,"body":"And so if you can automate that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":747.62,"endTime":749.76,"body":"20% of the problems, that's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":749.76,"endTime":752.8,"body":"a huge boon to these contact"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":749.76,"endTime":752.8,"body":"centers And then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":752.8,"endTime":755.1,"body":"the other thing I would say,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":752.8,"endTime":755.1,"body":"which is what I also touched"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":755.1,"endTime":758.29,"body":"on before, is that voice more"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":755.1,"endTime":758.29,"body":"so than text definitely gives"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":758.29,"endTime":763.14,"body":"you this opportunity to develop"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":758.29,"endTime":763.14,"body":"a branded experience where you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":763.1999999999999,"endTime":766.62,"body":"don't feel like you are suddenly"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":763.1999999999999,"endTime":766.62,"body":"subordinating the persona,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":766.62,"endTime":769.419,"body":"the attitude, the identity"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":766.62,"endTime":769.419,"body":"that you've spent so long"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":769.419,"endTime":773.88,"body":"developing as a brand to, you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":769.419,"endTime":773.88,"body":"know, the kind of LLMEs- Right."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":773.9399999999999,"endTime":779.54,"body":"the generic, extremely"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":773.9399999999999,"endTime":779.54,"body":"passive, and kind of flavorless"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":779.78,"endTime":782.98,"body":"dialogue that you can expect"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":779.78,"endTime":782.98,"body":"from a kind of generically"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":782.98,"endTime":785.0,"body":"wrapped LLM in a chatbot."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":785.2099999999999,"endTime":786.789,"body":"So give an example of this."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":786.8399999999999,"endTime":788.899,"body":"One of our clients is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":786.8399999999999,"endTime":788.899,"body":"Fogo de Chão, which is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":788.899,"endTime":792.7189999999999,"body":"the Brazilian steakhouse"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":788.899,"endTime":792.7189999999999,"body":"chain, really fantastic"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":792.7189999999999,"endTime":793.9599999999999,"body":"steakhouse, highly recommend."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":794.16,"endTime":797.809,"body":"And they were really into"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":794.16,"endTime":797.809,"body":"this idea of actually"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":797.809,"endTime":800.76,"body":"cloning the voice of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":797.809,"endTime":800.76,"body":"Selma, who's one of their"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":800.76,"endTime":803.16,"body":"longtime customer experience"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":800.76,"endTime":803.16,"body":"leaders at the company."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":803.16,"endTime":804.559,"body":"She's been at the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":803.16,"endTime":804.559,"body":"company for decades."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":804.68,"endTime":807.1,"body":"And so what we were able to do"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":804.68,"endTime":807.1,"body":"for them was actually recreate"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":807.1,"endTime":810.829,"body":"Selma as an AI agent and have"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":807.1,"endTime":810.829,"body":"her be the one answering the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":810.829,"endTime":814.309,"body":"phones when people call to make,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":810.829,"endTime":814.309,"body":"modify, cancel reservations, ask"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":814.309,"endTime":815.669,"body":"about rewards, things like that."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":815.8199999999999,"endTime":817.55,"body":"And so by doing that,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":815.8199999999999,"endTime":817.55,"body":"they were able to actually"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":817.55,"endTime":820.029,"body":"create, like, an extension"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":817.55,"endTime":820.029,"body":"of their brand identity that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":820.1089999999999,"endTime":821.539,"body":"is not possible otherwise."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":821.539,"endTime":824.4499999999999,"body":"Like, they were able to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":821.539,"endTime":824.4499999999999,"body":"basically give Selma, this one"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":824.649,"endTime":827.56,"body":"brilliant woman, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":824.649,"endTime":827.56,"body":"million more voices than she"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":827.56,"endTime":829.6999999999999,"body":"could have had at once, and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":827.56,"endTime":829.6999999999999,"body":"the ability to interact with"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":829.6999999999999,"endTime":831.639,"body":"a million more people than"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":829.6999999999999,"endTime":831.639,"body":"she could have had at once."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":831.819,"endTime":834.1899999999999,"body":"So that's something that clients"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":831.819,"endTime":834.1899999999999,"body":"are really excited about, and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":834.1899999999999,"endTime":837.42,"body":"certainly something that you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":834.1899999999999,"endTime":837.42,"body":"can't get from text on a screen."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":837.5899999999999,"endTime":839.42,"body":"Well, it's funny"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":837.5899999999999,"endTime":839.42,"body":"because, you know, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":839.42,"endTime":842.3399999999999,"body":"the, like, LLM voice, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":839.42,"endTime":842.3399999999999,"body":"I think everyone listening"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":842.3399999999999,"endTime":842.98,"body":"probably is like, yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":843.02,"endTime":845.13,"body":"Like, we all kind of get what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":843.02,"endTime":845.13,"body":"that means, and I know the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":845.13,"endTime":847.8,"body":"technology is progressing,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":845.13,"endTime":847.8,"body":"but, you know, like, coming"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":847.8,"endTime":849.37,"body":"back to what we were saying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":847.8,"endTime":849.37,"body":"earlier, it's still this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":849.37,"endTime":853.38,"body":"sort of its own persona that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":849.37,"endTime":853.38,"body":"you know, arguably starts"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":853.38,"endTime":855.3,"body":"quite, you know, sycophantic."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":855.519,"endTime":857.269,"body":"It's kind of like this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":855.519,"endTime":857.269,"body":"people-pleasing... And"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":857.269,"endTime":858.25,"body":"it has a personality."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":858.25,"endTime":860.29,"body":"It just might not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":858.25,"endTime":860.29,"body":"be Selma, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":860.29,"endTime":863.009,"body":"Like, it might not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":860.29,"endTime":863.009,"body":"be this individual's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":863.059,"endTime":864.269,"body":"personalized experience."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":864.43,"endTime":866.3389999999999,"body":"And I think a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":864.43,"endTime":866.3389999999999,"body":"listening would be like, \"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":866.4789999999999,"endTime":868.419,"body":"you know, I am kinda sick of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":866.4789999999999,"endTime":868.419,"body":"that, and I'm kinda sick of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":868.419,"endTime":871.8489999999999,"body":"that LLM voice.\" I wonder, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":868.419,"endTime":871.8489999999999,"body":"could you step us through it,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":871.8489999999999,"endTime":874.14,"body":"maybe at a high level, in terms"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":871.8489999999999,"endTime":874.14,"body":"of, like, does Selma, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":874.14,"endTime":877.059,"body":"come in and just, like, talk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":874.14,"endTime":877.059,"body":"in a booth for a week straight?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":877.059,"endTime":879.2389999999999,"body":"Or, like, 'cause I'm just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":877.059,"endTime":879.2389999999999,"body":"thinking of folks who are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":879.2389999999999,"endTime":880.929,"body":"listening who are like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":879.2389999999999,"endTime":880.929,"body":"\"Yeah, I wanna build,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":880.929,"endTime":882.0799999999999,"body":"like, a Selma agent."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":882.0799999999999,"endTime":883.89,"body":"Like, I don't want it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":882.0799999999999,"endTime":883.89,"body":"to be like, 'Great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":884.0799999999999,"endTime":885.3,"body":"Your suggestions are awesome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":885.3,"endTime":886.5799999999999,"body":"Here's three things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":885.3,"endTime":886.5799999999999,"body":"that I'd correct."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":886.5799999999999,"endTime":888.97,"body":"Would you like me to go and do a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":886.5799999999999,"endTime":888.97,"body":"thing now?'\" How does it work to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":888.97,"endTime":891.97,"body":"sort of, you know, get Selma's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":888.97,"endTime":891.97,"body":"personality in there, and is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":891.97,"endTime":893.559,"body":"it, like, an arduous task?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":893.885,"endTime":894.115,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":894.115,"endTime":896.515,"body":"Well, so for the actual voice,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":894.115,"endTime":896.515,"body":"for like cloning the voice,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":896.5649999999999,"endTime":898.425,"body":"it does require collecting,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":896.5649999999999,"endTime":898.425,"body":"you know, a certain amount"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":898.425,"endTime":901.0749999999999,"body":"of training data and then"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":898.425,"endTime":901.0749999999999,"body":"training a custom voice model"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":901.0749999999999,"endTime":903.605,"body":"on it so that we can get like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":901.0749999999999,"endTime":903.605,"body":"her accent and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":903.605,"endTime":906.905,"body":"the way that she says and and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":903.605,"endTime":906.905,"body":"like the little placeholders"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":906.905,"endTime":907.7959999999999,"body":"when she's speaking."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":908.0459999999999,"endTime":910.265,"body":"And then in terms of actually"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":908.0459999999999,"endTime":910.265,"body":"designing a persona, that's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":910.265,"endTime":912.626,"body":"really where the conversation"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":910.265,"endTime":912.626,"body":"designer comes in and,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":912.626,"endTime":918.146,"body":"like, works at the sort of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":912.626,"endTime":918.146,"body":"prompting and retrieval and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":918.535,"endTime":921.146,"body":"guardrail layer to actually"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":918.535,"endTime":921.146,"body":"exert control over what the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":921.146,"endTime":923.785,"body":"model returns and, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":921.146,"endTime":923.785,"body":"figure out its conversation"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":923.785,"endTime":924.685,"body":"style with the client."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":924.685,"endTime":926.7149999999999,"body":"We have a lot of ways of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":924.685,"endTime":926.7149999999999,"body":"exerting those, like different"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":926.7149999999999,"endTime":929.625,"body":"levers and dials that we can"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":926.7149999999999,"endTime":929.625,"body":"pull to try and get out of that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":929.625,"endTime":932.726,"body":"LLMs, but that's another one of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":929.625,"endTime":932.726,"body":"the things that makes it super"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":932.726,"endTime":934.895,"body":"useful to have custom-trained"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":932.726,"endTime":934.895,"body":"in-house models, which is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":934.895,"endTime":937.5459999999999,"body":"what we work with as well,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":934.895,"endTime":937.5459999999999,"body":"which is that we can make them"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":937.595,"endTime":942.165,"body":"especially sensitive to things"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":937.595,"endTime":942.165,"body":"like persona prompting and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":942.525,"endTime":945.055,"body":"ways and conversation style and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":942.525,"endTime":945.055,"body":"ways of actually conducting the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":945.055,"endTime":949.656,"body":"conversation as opposed to, you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":945.055,"endTime":949.656,"body":"know, only very sensitive to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":949.696,"endTime":951.625,"body":"instruction following, which"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":949.696,"endTime":951.625,"body":"obviously of course is what"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":951.625,"endTime":954.946,"body":"we want as well, but otherwise"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":951.625,"endTime":954.946,"body":"falling back to that kind of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":955.115,"endTime":959.115,"body":"sycophantic bland persona that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":955.115,"endTime":959.115,"body":"we've come to expect from LLMs."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":959.4649999999999,"endTime":961.615,"body":"I like the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":959.4649999999999,"endTime":961.615,"body":"'cause usually at least"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":961.615,"endTime":963.405,"body":"in the conversations I've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":961.615,"endTime":963.405,"body":"had, when we use the word"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":963.405,"endTime":966.435,"body":"guardrails, we kind of mean"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":963.405,"endTime":966.435,"body":"like, you know, like safety,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":966.535,"endTime":967.5849999999999,"body":"ethics, things like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":967.875,"endTime":969.9449999999999,"body":"And what I understood you to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":967.875,"endTime":969.9449999999999,"body":"mean is almost like guardrails"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":969.9449999999999,"endTime":973.495,"body":"around how much personality"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":969.9449999999999,"endTime":973.495,"body":"to like try and extrapolate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":973.495,"endTime":976.655,"body":"from the data that there is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":973.495,"endTime":976.655,"body":"because yeah, I mean it could"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":976.655,"endTime":979.625,"body":"get into like safety, privacy,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":976.655,"endTime":979.625,"body":"ethical things, but also even"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":979.625,"endTime":980.595,"body":"just like that was weird."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":980.775,"endTime":983.0649999999999,"body":"Like someone just overshared"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":980.775,"endTime":983.0649999999999,"body":"to me on the phone."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":983.697,"endTime":983.757,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":983.757,"endTime":987.717,"body":"Guardrails around the brand"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":983.757,"endTime":987.717,"body":"identity as well, right?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":987.717,"endTime":990.927,"body":"Like, like obviously we don't"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":987.717,"endTime":990.927,"body":"want the model to exfiltrate"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":990.927,"endTime":992.047,"body":"personal information."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":992.047,"endTime":995.437,"body":"We don't want it to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":992.047,"endTime":995.437,"body":"hallucinate, say something"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":995.437,"endTime":998.567,"body":"that could get the business in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":995.437,"endTime":998.567,"body":"trouble from a legal standpoint"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":998.567,"endTime":999.797,"body":"or ethically or whatever."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":999.957,"endTime":1003.807,"body":"But you also want to protect"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":999.957,"endTime":1003.807,"body":"that brand, that persona that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1003.807,"endTime":1007.177,"body":"the company has spent so long"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1003.807,"endTime":1007.177,"body":"developing, and there need to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1007.177,"endTime":1008.547,"body":"be guardrails for that as well."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1008.547,"endTime":1010.597,"body":"Like, that's also something"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1008.547,"endTime":1010.597,"body":"at risk when you put"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1010.6469999999999,"endTime":1011.877,"body":"an LLM in the system."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1011.9069999999999,"endTime":1013.807,"body":"And so that's something"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1011.9069999999999,"endTime":1013.807,"body":"that we take a lot of care"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1013.9069999999999,"endTime":1016.1469999999999,"body":"and spend a lot of time"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1013.9069999999999,"endTime":1016.1469999999999,"body":"making sure is in place."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1016.317,"endTime":1018.077,"body":"I wanted to come back"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1016.317,"endTime":1018.077,"body":"to something you said earlier."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1018.077,"endTime":1020.457,"body":"You said people do still"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1018.077,"endTime":1020.457,"body":"wanna pick up the phone."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1020.597,"endTime":1022.067,"body":"I resonate with your sentiment."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1022.067,"endTime":1022.9069999999999,"body":"I'm like, that's kind of weird."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1022.9069999999999,"endTime":1024.367,"body":"I don't love the phone."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1024.487,"endTime":1027.257,"body":"It's just, yeah, for some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1024.487,"endTime":1027.257,"body":"reason I'm averse to it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1027.257,"endTime":1028.4470000000001,"body":"It's unpredictable."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1028.4470000000001,"endTime":1030.047,"body":"It's kind of like I don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1028.4470000000001,"endTime":1030.047,"body":"have enough control."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1030.047,"endTime":1032.017,"body":"I think the control freak in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1030.047,"endTime":1032.017,"body":"me doesn't like the phone,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1032.017,"endTime":1034.387,"body":"but like you said, people do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1032.017,"endTime":1034.387,"body":"wanna pick up the phone and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1034.387,"endTime":1036.907,"body":"you know, like I am definitely"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1034.387,"endTime":1036.907,"body":"not the majority here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1037.417,"endTime":1040.667,"body":"I'm thinking of it as like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1037.417,"endTime":1040.667,"body":"okay, well like why the phone?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1040.667,"endTime":1044.167,"body":"Like why hasn't the phone"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1040.667,"endTime":1044.167,"body":"become like this anachronism"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1044.167,"endTime":1045.257,"body":"like sending a fax?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1045.417,"endTime":1048.257,"body":"What do you think it is about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1045.417,"endTime":1048.257,"body":"people who do wanna pick up the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1048.257,"endTime":1050.287,"body":"phone and like talk to a human?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1050.487,"endTime":1050.777,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1050.907,"endTime":1053.007,"body":"There's a concept in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1050.907,"endTime":1053.007,"body":"the human-computer"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1053.007,"endTime":1054.017,"body":"interaction field."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1054.017,"endTime":1055.237,"body":"It's actually a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1054.017,"endTime":1055.237,"body":"very old concept."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1055.237,"endTime":1057.357,"body":"It's like decades and decades"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1055.237,"endTime":1057.357,"body":"old, and that actually"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1057.357,"endTime":1059.927,"body":"developed around thinking about"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1057.357,"endTime":1059.927,"body":"phone conversations versus"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1060.057,"endTime":1062.4669999999999,"body":"face-to-face conversations,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1060.057,"endTime":1062.4669999999999,"body":"which is called social presence."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1062.667,"endTime":1065.367,"body":"And it's that term for"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1062.667,"endTime":1065.367,"body":"that sense of being with"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1065.367,"endTime":1067.987,"body":"another person, that sense"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1065.367,"endTime":1067.987,"body":"of real-time togetherness."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1068.177,"endTime":1071.567,"body":"And it's obviously kind of a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1068.177,"endTime":1071.567,"body":"subjective thing to measure, but"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1071.567,"endTime":1074.027,"body":"we do find there's tons and tons"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1071.567,"endTime":1074.027,"body":"of literature out there that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1074.027,"endTime":1077.437,"body":"show that an increased sense of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1074.027,"endTime":1077.437,"body":"social presence is correlated"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1077.437,"endTime":1080.007,"body":"with all kinds of other positive"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1077.437,"endTime":1080.007,"body":"like customer experience"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1080.007,"endTime":1081.2069999999999,"body":"and like business outcomes."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1081.367,"endTime":1083.837,"body":"So if someone feels a greater"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1081.367,"endTime":1083.837,"body":"sense of social presence in a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1083.837,"endTime":1086.127,"body":"customer service interaction,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1083.837,"endTime":1086.127,"body":"they're more likely to trust"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1086.127,"endTime":1088.4769999999999,"body":"and adhere to the advice of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1086.127,"endTime":1088.4769999999999,"body":"the person they're talking to."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1088.617,"endTime":1091.047,"body":"And so that leads obviously"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1088.617,"endTime":1091.047,"body":"to, you know, fewer bounce"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1091.047,"endTime":1093.787,"body":"backs because people didn't"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1091.047,"endTime":1093.787,"body":"follow the directions, and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1093.787,"endTime":1096.267,"body":"more satisfaction with the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1093.787,"endTime":1096.267,"body":"outcome of the conversation."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1096.4769999999999,"endTime":1099.067,"body":"Generally, satisfaction is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1096.4769999999999,"endTime":1099.067,"body":"correlated to this sense"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1099.067,"endTime":1100.307,"body":"of social presence as well."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1100.4669999999999,"endTime":1102.737,"body":"And also, you know, crucially,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1100.4669999999999,"endTime":1102.737,"body":"and this is a big thing around"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1102.857,"endTime":1106.307,"body":"AI interactions, they feel more"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1102.857,"endTime":1106.307,"body":"confident that the security"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1106.307,"endTime":1108.327,"body":"of the information they've"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1106.307,"endTime":1108.327,"body":"provided is being handled"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1108.327,"endTime":1109.657,"body":"sensitively and with care."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1109.767,"endTime":1112.377,"body":"And so I would imagine, you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1109.767,"endTime":1112.377,"body":"know, also as someone who"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1112.377,"endTime":1115.187,"body":"doesn't love phone calls, but"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1112.377,"endTime":1115.187,"body":"I can, you know, empathize"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1115.187,"endTime":1118.887,"body":"that like all of these positive"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1115.187,"endTime":1118.887,"body":"experiences and outcomes that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1118.927,"endTime":1121.2269999999999,"body":"are associated with a greater"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1118.927,"endTime":1121.2269999999999,"body":"sense of social presence has"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1121.2269999999999,"endTime":1123.667,"body":"people seeking out that social"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1121.2269999999999,"endTime":1123.667,"body":"presence in these interactions."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1123.667,"endTime":1125.777,"body":"So, you know, I think about"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1123.667,"endTime":1125.777,"body":"social presence as kind of a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1125.777,"endTime":1128.907,"body":"spectrum, you know, the highest"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1125.777,"endTime":1128.907,"body":"degree being a face-to-face"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1128.907,"endTime":1130.047,"body":"interaction with someone."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1130.2069999999999,"endTime":1132.2169999999999,"body":"Probably you and I, as we're"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1130.2069999999999,"endTime":1132.2169999999999,"body":"looking at each other right"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1132.2169999999999,"endTime":1134.157,"body":"now, this is probably the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1132.2169999999999,"endTime":1134.157,"body":"second best we can get,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1134.197,"endTime":1135.407,"body":"we see each other's faces."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1135.597,"endTime":1137.627,"body":"Over the phone would be"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1135.597,"endTime":1137.627,"body":"a little less, and then,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1137.627,"endTime":1139.597,"body":"you know, texting each"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1137.627,"endTime":1139.597,"body":"other is kind of the least"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1139.597,"endTime":1140.487,"body":"that you could imagine."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1140.617,"endTime":1144.9289999999999,"body":"So, you know, people are looking"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1140.617,"endTime":1144.9289999999999,"body":"for ways that they can Find that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1145.119,"endTime":1147.469,"body":"feeling of social presence, I"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1145.119,"endTime":1147.469,"body":"think, in these interactions."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1147.619,"endTime":1148.829,"body":"It's really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1147.619,"endTime":1148.829,"body":"interesting thinking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1148.829,"endTime":1150.6789999999999,"body":"the role of social presence,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1148.829,"endTime":1150.6789999999999,"body":"'cause as you were saying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1150.6789999999999,"endTime":1152.489,"body":"that I'm like, \"Oh my gosh,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1150.6789999999999,"endTime":1152.489,"body":"how many times have I, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1152.519,"endTime":1155.879,"body":"read an email and, like, not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1152.519,"endTime":1155.879,"body":"felt any sort of real-time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1155.879,"endTime":1156.9189999999999,"body":"accountability to it?\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1156.9189999999999,"endTime":1158.029,"body":"So I'm like, I'm skimming it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1158.1789999999999,"endTime":1159.089,"body":"Did I follow the instructions?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1159.089,"endTime":1159.9289999999999,"body":"I probably did it wrong."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1159.9289999999999,"endTime":1163.1589999999999,"body":"I'm like, \"Okay,\" like, 'cause"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1159.9289999999999,"endTime":1163.1589999999999,"body":"I'm not fully invested or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1163.1589999999999,"endTime":1166.4089999999999,"body":"paying attention, and I don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1163.1589999999999,"endTime":1166.4089999999999,"body":"expect or feel like anyone's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1166.4089999999999,"endTime":1168.389,"body":"sort of, quote-unquote,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1166.4089999999999,"endTime":1168.389,"body":"like, taking care of me."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1168.509,"endTime":1170.619,"body":"Whereas with the social"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1168.509,"endTime":1170.619,"body":"presence, it's real time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1170.779,"endTime":1173.809,"body":"I do have this sort of like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1170.779,"endTime":1173.809,"body":"you know, social decorum or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1173.809,"endTime":1176.089,"body":"bond or whatever, like, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1173.809,"endTime":1176.089,"body":"should listen to this person"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1176.089,"endTime":1178.969,"body":"and not just kind of like half"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1176.089,"endTime":1178.969,"body":"listen and hope I understood"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1178.969,"endTime":1179.839,"body":"the instructions right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1180.009,"endTime":1182.549,"body":"And also, there's that sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1180.009,"endTime":1182.549,"body":"of realtimeness of like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1182.579,"endTime":1185.549,"body":"okay, someone is here, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1182.579,"endTime":1185.549,"body":"know, caring in some way,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1185.549,"endTime":1186.369,"body":"shape, or form for me."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1186.399,"endTime":1188.129,"body":"Like, something between"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1186.399,"endTime":1188.129,"body":"caring and serving."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1188.129,"endTime":1189.719,"body":"Like it's like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1188.129,"endTime":1189.719,"body":"they're here to help, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1189.9189999999999,"endTime":1193.439,"body":"And I was just thinking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1189.9189999999999,"endTime":1193.439,"body":"how that is a great reason"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1193.509,"endTime":1198.4189999999999,"body":"for why good design in the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1193.509,"endTime":1198.4189999999999,"body":"conversation will actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1198.6589999999999,"endTime":1201.269,"body":"create that social presence,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1198.6589999999999,"endTime":1201.269,"body":"because effectively it actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1201.269,"endTime":1203.9089999999999,"body":"makes the interaction more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1201.269,"endTime":1203.9089999999999,"body":"effective, more efficient."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1204.089,"endTime":1205.1789999999999,"body":"It's building loyalty."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1205.1789999999999,"endTime":1206.839,"body":"It, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1205.1789999999999,"endTime":1206.839,"body":"has trust built in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1207.129,"endTime":1209.219,"body":"And yeah, the, what you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1207.129,"endTime":1209.219,"body":"said about, like, just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1209.219,"endTime":1212.089,"body":"chucking information into a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1209.219,"endTime":1212.089,"body":"chatbot, like, it does feel"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1212.089,"endTime":1213.459,"body":"like you're like, \"I don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1212.089,"endTime":1213.459,"body":"know what they're gonna do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1213.459,"endTime":1214.619,"body":"with this data.\" You know?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1214.619,"endTime":1216.559,"body":"I'm, like, looking at my"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1214.619,"endTime":1216.559,"body":"browser bar just to make"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1216.559,"endTime":1218.6789999999999,"body":"sure it's, like, a secure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1216.559,"endTime":1218.6789999999999,"body":"connection like five times"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1218.6789999999999,"endTime":1219.769,"body":"before I send something."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1219.949,"endTime":1223.405,"body":"Versus, yeah, the, like-"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1219.949,"endTime":1223.405,"body":"inbuilt trust of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1223.405,"endTime":1225.125,"body":"what happens when there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1223.405,"endTime":1225.125,"body":"is that social presence."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1225.415,"endTime":1226.635,"body":"Yeah, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1225.415,"endTime":1226.635,"body":"glad you said the thing about"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1226.635,"endTime":1229.035,"body":"design because it obviously is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1226.635,"endTime":1229.035,"body":"something that extends beyond"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1229.035,"endTime":1230.7649999999999,"body":"just, like, the channel itself."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1230.7649999999999,"endTime":1233.475,"body":"Like, it's like, oh, okay,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1230.7649999999999,"endTime":1233.475,"body":"phone is better than text"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1233.475,"endTime":1234.445,"body":"in terms of social presence."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1234.555,"endTime":1236.865,"body":"But there are also things that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1234.555,"endTime":1236.865,"body":"we as designers can do in order"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1236.865,"endTime":1239.415,"body":"to induce a greater sense of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1236.865,"endTime":1239.415,"body":"that social presence as well,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1239.415,"endTime":1242.885,"body":"and this is things like we try"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1239.415,"endTime":1242.885,"body":"very hard to make it always feel"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1242.885,"endTime":1245.885,"body":"that the agent is not reaching"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1242.885,"endTime":1245.885,"body":"into a canned bag of responses"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1245.885,"endTime":1248.955,"body":"and just, like, giving you ad"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1245.885,"endTime":1248.955,"body":"copy verbatim or something."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1248.955,"endTime":1249.185,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1249.455,"endTime":1251.225,"body":"'Cause that's a great way"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1249.455,"endTime":1251.225,"body":"to make it feel, again,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1251.225,"endTime":1253.5149999999999,"body":"like this person is not"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1251.225,"endTime":1253.5149999999999,"body":"with you in real time."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1253.5149999999999,"endTime":1255.885,"body":"Like, there's not a sense"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1253.5149999999999,"endTime":1255.885,"body":"of rapport, a sense of real"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1255.885,"endTime":1258.0249999999999,"body":"time, like, collaborative"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1255.885,"endTime":1258.0249999999999,"body":"problem solving, which is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1258.0249999999999,"endTime":1259.095,"body":"what we want to foster."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1259.315,"endTime":1263.0149999999999,"body":"And LLMs have lots of ways in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1259.315,"endTime":1263.0149999999999,"body":"the way that they naturally,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1263.185,"endTime":1266.095,"body":"out of the box interact that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1263.185,"endTime":1266.095,"body":"sort of have the ability to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1266.095,"endTime":1268.5049999999999,"body":"undermine that sense of social"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1266.095,"endTime":1268.5049999999999,"body":"presence, that make them feel"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1268.5049999999999,"endTime":1271.705,"body":"kind of distant or removed or"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1268.5049999999999,"endTime":1271.705,"body":"uncanny, sort of as you touched"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1271.705,"endTime":1275.705,"body":"on before, where, like, the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1271.705,"endTime":1275.705,"body":"familiarity and affinity level"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1275.7649999999999,"endTime":1278.845,"body":"that you feel for the agent"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1275.7649999999999,"endTime":1278.845,"body":"is, like, not quite there."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1278.965,"endTime":1281.085,"body":"So design plays a huge"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1278.965,"endTime":1281.085,"body":"role in that beyond"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1281.085,"endTime":1282.295,"body":"just the channel itself."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1282.485,"endTime":1283.215,"body":"It's a good point."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1283.345,"endTime":1285.565,"body":"I mean, this is a lovely"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1283.345,"endTime":1285.565,"body":"tangent, and I'd love to take"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1285.565,"endTime":1289.315,"body":"us on because I think that a lot"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1285.565,"endTime":1289.315,"body":"of folks forget that something"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1289.315,"endTime":1293.7649999999999,"body":"like ChatGPT, these LLMs, are,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1289.315,"endTime":1293.7649999999999,"body":"like, designed to fit almost"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1293.795,"endTime":1296.145,"body":"every possible use case that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1293.795,"endTime":1296.145,"body":"humans might throw at them,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1296.145,"endTime":1299.415,"body":"and these large tech companies"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1296.145,"endTime":1299.415,"body":"have built it that way to sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1299.415,"endTime":1303.115,"body":"of gather data and to increase"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1299.415,"endTime":1303.115,"body":"uptake and adoption of this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1303.115,"endTime":1304.7649999999999,"body":"technology so it can progress."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1305.0049999999999,"endTime":1307.415,"body":"But fundamentally, the LLM"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1305.0049999999999,"endTime":1307.415,"body":"voice is going to be the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1307.415,"endTime":1310.655,"body":"safe voice for any situation."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1310.695,"endTime":1313.705,"body":"You know, if you're like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1310.695,"endTime":1313.705,"body":"\"Hey, I am,\" whatever, \"I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1313.705,"endTime":1315.655,"body":"concerned about my mental"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1313.705,"endTime":1315.655,"body":"health,\" or like, \"How do I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1315.655,"endTime":1317.805,"body":"get a cheeseburger from this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1315.655,"endTime":1317.805,"body":"restaurant?\" Like, is..."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1317.965,"endTime":1320.955,"body":"They're both use cases that this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1317.965,"endTime":1320.955,"body":"technology is meant to handle"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1321.125,"endTime":1324.185,"body":"for everybody, and of course"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1321.125,"endTime":1324.185,"body":"it's gonna be this, like, safe,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1324.385,"endTime":1327.895,"body":"sycophantic, you know, voice"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1324.385,"endTime":1327.895,"body":"that kind of makes you feel"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1327.895,"endTime":1329.835,"body":"good about yourself and get that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1327.895,"endTime":1329.835,"body":"thing done, and you're like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1329.835,"endTime":1331.105,"body":"\"This technology is great.\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1331.343,"endTime":1334.413,"body":"But it was really funny to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1331.343,"endTime":1334.413,"body":"watch how quickly people were"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1334.413,"endTime":1337.3229999999999,"body":"like, \"Oh, I'm training my LLM"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1334.413,"endTime":1337.3229999999999,"body":"to be a little mean,\" right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1337.3229999999999,"endTime":1338.003,"body":"To me, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1338.163,"endTime":1339.493,"body":"Like, I don't want it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1338.163,"endTime":1339.493,"body":"to be nice, actually."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1339.493,"endTime":1341.423,"body":"I want it to be a little"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1339.493,"endTime":1341.423,"body":"bit mean because, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1341.423,"endTime":1343.203,"body":"know, they're the kind of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1341.423,"endTime":1343.203,"body":"people who necessarily need"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1343.203,"endTime":1344.853,"body":"that sort of comfort and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1343.203,"endTime":1344.853,"body":"safety in the interaction."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1344.853,"endTime":1347.163,"body":"But it's like, 'cause, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1344.853,"endTime":1347.163,"body":"one size fits every use case,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1347.163,"endTime":1350.8229999999999,"body":"every user, so of course it's a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1347.163,"endTime":1350.8229999999999,"body":"little bit, you know, vanilla."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1351.0529999999999,"endTime":1352.093,"body":"Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1351.0529999999999,"endTime":1352.093,"body":"it's so interesting 'cause"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1352.093,"endTime":1355.203,"body":"I obviously would prefer"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1352.093,"endTime":1355.203,"body":"that a large language model"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1355.203,"endTime":1357.753,"body":"is, like, on the receiving"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1355.203,"endTime":1357.753,"body":"end of abuse from an angry"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1357.753,"endTime":1359.203,"body":"customer than a human."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1359.383,"endTime":1362.0629999999999,"body":"But at the same time, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1359.383,"endTime":1362.0629999999999,"body":"as a designer, and I think"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1362.0629999999999,"endTime":1363.923,"body":"a lot of brands would agree"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1362.0629999999999,"endTime":1363.923,"body":"with this as well, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1364.103,"endTime":1366.493,"body":"you kind of want the, even"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1364.103,"endTime":1366.493,"body":"the LLM to be able to set"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1366.493,"endTime":1367.683,"body":"boundaries with your customer."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1367.713,"endTime":1367.773,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1367.923,"endTime":1370.343,"body":"You don't wanna just have to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1367.923,"endTime":1370.343,"body":"listen to calls day in and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1370.343,"endTime":1373.623,"body":"day out of people yelling and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1370.343,"endTime":1373.623,"body":"screaming and cursing at an"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1373.623,"endTime":1375.413,"body":"AI, and the AI just taking it."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1375.413,"endTime":1379.663,"body":"Like, that feels, I don't know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1375.413,"endTime":1379.663,"body":"bad for the soul of humanity."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1379.663,"endTime":1382.483,"body":"Like, I think we should still"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1379.663,"endTime":1382.483,"body":"be, you know, supporting"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1382.483,"endTime":1384.343,"body":"good principles, and this"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1382.483,"endTime":1384.343,"body":"is the closest I'll get,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1384.343,"endTime":1387.413,"body":"I guess, to a prescriptive"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1384.343,"endTime":1387.413,"body":"kind of ethical stance in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1387.413,"endTime":1388.703,"body":"this conversation probably."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1388.703,"endTime":1392.203,"body":"But I feel like we should still"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1388.703,"endTime":1392.203,"body":"be fostering good principles"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1392.203,"endTime":1395.8029999999999,"body":"of conversation beyond just,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1392.203,"endTime":1395.8029999999999,"body":"like, realistic conversation,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1395.833,"endTime":1396.583,"body":"if that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1396.843,"endTime":1399.383,"body":"And I totally"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1396.843,"endTime":1399.383,"body":"agree because things we do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1399.543,"endTime":1403.0729999999999,"body":"in any channel or context,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1399.543,"endTime":1403.0729999999999,"body":"I think do influence what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1403.0729999999999,"endTime":1404.343,"body":"we normalize, you know?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1404.343,"endTime":1406.393,"body":"And, like, even I was gonna"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1404.343,"endTime":1406.393,"body":"go there earlier because,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1406.393,"endTime":1408.743,"body":"like, you know, in some ways"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1406.393,"endTime":1408.743,"body":"previously conversation-based"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1409.003,"endTime":1411.413,"body":"interactions with technology"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1409.003,"endTime":1411.413,"body":"have been very frustrating"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1411.413,"endTime":1413.853,"body":"because you have your Alexas"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1411.413,"endTime":1413.853,"body":"and your Siris and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1413.853,"endTime":1415.143,"body":"you're like, \"Damn it, Siri."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1415.143,"endTime":1416.963,"body":"No, that's not what I meant.\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1415.143,"endTime":1416.963,"body":"And, like, you see people being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1416.963,"endTime":1421.643,"body":"really mean to these assistants,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1416.963,"endTime":1421.643,"body":"and it's almost like, whatever,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1421.643,"endTime":1423.233,"body":"like, YouTube comments, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1423.383,"endTime":1427.283,"body":"And we start normalizing this,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1423.383,"endTime":1427.283,"body":"like, you know, bullying or, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1427.283,"endTime":1429.003,"body":"know, like, this bad behavior."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1429.153,"endTime":1430.983,"body":"It's bound to just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1429.153,"endTime":1430.983,"body":"seep into other stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1431.123,"endTime":1433.453,"body":"So especially when everyone"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1431.123,"endTime":1433.453,"body":"was like, \"Oh, don't say"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1433.453,"endTime":1437.223,"body":"thanks to ChatGPT because, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1433.453,"endTime":1437.223,"body":"know, every time you do, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1437.453,"endTime":1439.153,"body":"there's not enough water to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1437.453,"endTime":1439.153,"body":"feed a village or something.\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1439.153,"endTime":1440.993,"body":"You know, like, there's this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1439.153,"endTime":1440.993,"body":"like, \"Oh, okay, well, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1440.993,"endTime":1442.593,"body":"guess we don't have to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1440.993,"endTime":1442.593,"body":"polite.\" And we're like no,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1442.593,"endTime":1443.533,"body":"that's not what we're saying."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1443.533,"endTime":1446.013,"body":"What we're saying is, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1443.533,"endTime":1446.013,"body":"don't be wasteful with the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1446.013,"endTime":1448.603,"body":"technology because it does"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1446.013,"endTime":1448.603,"body":"use significant resources.\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1448.653,"endTime":1451.273,"body":"But I don't know, actually,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1448.653,"endTime":1451.273,"body":"I wonder your take on that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1451.333,"endTime":1452.903,"body":"Should I be saying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1451.333,"endTime":1452.903,"body":"thank you to LLMs?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1453.533,"endTime":1455.093,"body":"Also, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1453.533,"endTime":1455.093,"body":"as you're saying it, like, this"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1455.093,"endTime":1457.373,"body":"is a sociolinguistics question"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1455.093,"endTime":1457.373,"body":"that, like, I'm sure there's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1457.373,"endTime":1459.883,"body":"being research actively done"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1457.373,"endTime":1459.883,"body":"on, specifically this question"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1459.883,"endTime":1462.863,"body":"of, like, how the way that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1459.883,"endTime":1462.863,"body":"you interact with different"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1462.863,"endTime":1467.3029999999999,"body":"kinds of virtual assistants"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1462.863,"endTime":1467.3029999999999,"body":"either prefigures or influences"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1467.403,"endTime":1470.433,"body":"or maybe just indexes the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1467.403,"endTime":1470.433,"body":"way that you interact with"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1470.433,"endTime":1471.483,"body":"humans in the real world."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1471.653,"endTime":1473.493,"body":"I feel like I've seen"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1471.653,"endTime":1473.493,"body":"headlines about this, but"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1473.493,"endTime":1477.133,"body":"I've not read, like, any"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1473.493,"endTime":1477.133,"body":"actual good scholarship on"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1477.133,"endTime":1479.253,"body":"it, and I'm sure it's being"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1477.133,"endTime":1479.253,"body":"done, so I don't wanna just"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1479.253,"endTime":1482.0529999999999,"body":"sit here and speculate while"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1479.253,"endTime":1482.0529999999999,"body":"someone's doing their PhD on"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1482.0529999999999,"endTime":1483.953,"body":"this in your own university."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1485.595,"endTime":1486.5149999999999,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1485.595,"endTime":1486.5149999999999,"body":"totally fair, yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1486.5149999999999,"endTime":1488.365,"body":"Like, the content I have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1486.5149999999999,"endTime":1488.365,"body":"seen has been a sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1488.365,"endTime":1491.205,"body":"inconclusive editorial thought"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1488.365,"endTime":1491.205,"body":"pieces, but I agree with you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1491.205,"endTime":1493.825,"body":"Somebody is, you know, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1491.205,"endTime":1493.825,"body":"doing the research here"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1494.035,"endTime":1496.695,"body":"specifically on this, which,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1494.035,"endTime":1496.695,"body":"I don't know, maybe this is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1496.695,"endTime":1500.0249999999999,"body":"a good segue as well because,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1496.695,"endTime":1500.0249999999999,"body":"you know, you are a linguist"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1500.0249999999999,"endTime":1502.675,"body":"by training, and you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1500.0249999999999,"endTime":1502.675,"body":"working at the bleeding edge of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1502.835,"endTime":1504.615,"body":"conversational AI experiences."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1504.825,"endTime":1508.325,"body":"So I imagine that you must"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1504.825,"endTime":1508.325,"body":"see a lot of people, or at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1508.325,"endTime":1511.2749999999999,"body":"least you're, like, tuned"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1508.325,"endTime":1511.2749999999999,"body":"in to notice people trying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1511.2749999999999,"endTime":1515.5249999999999,"body":"to develop this, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1511.2749999999999,"endTime":1515.5249999999999,"body":"natural, usable AI tools that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1515.5249999999999,"endTime":1517.465,"body":"like, pass the cringe test."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1517.5049999999999,"endTime":1519.865,"body":"But I imagine you're seeing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1517.5049999999999,"endTime":1519.865,"body":"a lot of folks are kinda,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1519.865,"endTime":1522.0049999999999,"body":"like, falling on their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1519.865,"endTime":1522.0049999999999,"body":"face a little bit as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1522.195,"endTime":1524.915,"body":"I'm coming at it from the angle"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1522.195,"endTime":1524.915,"body":"of, like, especially in my"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1524.915,"endTime":1527.455,"body":"world, project management or,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1524.915,"endTime":1527.455,"body":"you know, any digital industry."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1527.455,"endTime":1529.425,"body":"It's like, I mean, if you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1527.455,"endTime":1529.425,"body":"wanna stay relevant, build an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1529.425,"endTime":1531.7749999999999,"body":"agent, you know, build these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1529.425,"endTime":1531.7749999999999,"body":"things, build all these things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1532.115,"endTime":1534.905,"body":"We're not linguists, we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1532.115,"endTime":1534.905,"body":"not AI people, and we're just"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1534.905,"endTime":1538.455,"body":"gonna be like, \"Go do AI.\" And"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1534.905,"endTime":1538.455,"body":"sometimes the result's not good."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1539.085,"endTime":1542.995,"body":"So I'm just wondering, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1539.085,"endTime":1542.995,"body":"what are the most common design"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1542.995,"endTime":1547.675,"body":"mistakes that you see happen"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1542.995,"endTime":1547.675,"body":"when teams build AI teammates"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1547.675,"endTime":1551.435,"body":"or AI agents, and which ones"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1547.675,"endTime":1551.435,"body":"are the ones that create that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1551.435,"endTime":1554.905,"body":"sort of like, \"This feels"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1551.435,"endTime":1554.905,"body":"weird,\" reaction for users?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1555.359,"endTime":1555.489,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1555.489,"endTime":1557.899,"body":"So I'll start with some,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1555.489,"endTime":1557.899,"body":"like, I guess more boring"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1557.899,"endTime":1560.4189999999999,"body":"stuff that I think kind of has"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1557.899,"endTime":1560.4189999999999,"body":"to be in place in order for"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1560.4189999999999,"endTime":1562.819,"body":"the more interesting nuanced"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1560.4189999999999,"endTime":1562.819,"body":"stuff to make a difference."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1562.859,"endTime":1563.019,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1563.139,"endTime":1566.189,"body":"Which is, I mean, for one"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1563.139,"endTime":1566.189,"body":"thing, as you and I have been"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1566.189,"endTime":1569.1789999999999,"body":"demonstrating this whole time,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1566.189,"endTime":1569.1789999999999,"body":"spoken conversation is messy."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1569.1789999999999,"endTime":1572.189,"body":"It's rife with interruptions"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1569.1789999999999,"endTime":1572.189,"body":"and self-repair, which is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1572.189,"endTime":1574.4089999999999,"body":"when, as you did before,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1572.189,"endTime":1574.4089999999999,"body":"like, you misspeak and you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1574.4089999999999,"endTime":1575.609,"body":"go back and correct yourself."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1575.769,"endTime":1578.779,"body":"You know, typically in spoken"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1575.769,"endTime":1578.779,"body":"interaction, people are talking"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1578.779,"endTime":1581.199,"body":"over each other, interrupting"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1578.779,"endTime":1581.199,"body":"each other, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1581.199,"endTime":1583.759,"body":"at the very most, there's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1581.199,"endTime":1583.759,"body":"like at the level of two to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1583.759,"endTime":1586.259,"body":"three hundred milliseconds"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1583.759,"endTime":1586.259,"body":"in between every turn."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1586.449,"endTime":1588.849,"body":"And so there's fundamentally"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1586.449,"endTime":1588.849,"body":"this, like, computational"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1588.849,"endTime":1591.279,"body":"problem, this technological"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1588.849,"endTime":1591.279,"body":"engineering problem of like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1591.469,"endTime":1594.049,"body":"well, if we're gonna have a call"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1591.469,"endTime":1594.049,"body":"to a large language model in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1594.049,"endTime":1597.019,"body":"between every turn, and maybe"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1594.049,"endTime":1597.019,"body":"there's also speech recognition"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1597.019,"endTime":1599.4289999999999,"body":"and text-to-speech on either"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1597.019,"endTime":1599.4289999999999,"body":"end of that, like that's a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1599.4289999999999,"endTime":1602.739,"body":"lot of computation to do in a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1599.4289999999999,"endTime":1602.739,"body":"very limited amount of time."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1602.979,"endTime":1606.149,"body":"And, you know, it's rare"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1602.979,"endTime":1606.149,"body":"these days to see out in the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1606.149,"endTime":1610.239,"body":"world, like an AI, a voice AI"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1606.149,"endTime":1610.239,"body":"agent that has less than three"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1610.239,"endTime":1613.299,"body":"seconds between every turn,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1610.239,"endTime":1613.299,"body":"much less, you know, a hundred"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1613.299,"endTime":1615.349,"body":"milliseconds, so like a whole"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1613.299,"endTime":1615.349,"body":"order of magnitude, right?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1615.519,"endTime":1618.6589999999999,"body":"And so the ability to manage"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1615.519,"endTime":1618.6589999999999,"body":"the natural flow of conversation"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1618.6589999999999,"endTime":1622.719,"body":"is both a usability problem and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1618.6589999999999,"endTime":1622.719,"body":"also this kind of uncanny valley"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1622.719,"endTime":1625.329,"body":"problem, where, for instance,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1622.719,"endTime":1625.329,"body":"like if I can't interrupt"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1625.329,"endTime":1628.699,"body":"when I need to interrupt, or"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1625.329,"endTime":1628.699,"body":"if the agent can't interrupt"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1628.699,"endTime":1631.629,"body":"me in order to step in over,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1628.699,"endTime":1631.629,"body":"you know, a misconception"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1631.629,"endTime":1634.6789999999999,"body":"that I have and clarify what"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1631.629,"endTime":1634.6789999999999,"body":"it was asking me for, or,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1634.859,"endTime":1637.4089999999999,"body":"you know, if I interrupt the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1634.859,"endTime":1637.4089999999999,"body":"agent and it doesn't know"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1637.4089999999999,"endTime":1640.119,"body":"how much of its previous"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1637.4089999999999,"endTime":1640.119,"body":"utterance it was able to get"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1640.119,"endTime":1641.619,"body":"out before I interrupted, right?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1641.619,"endTime":1644.459,"body":"Like, that's sort of a technical"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1641.619,"endTime":1644.459,"body":"challenge of if I'm talking and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1644.459,"endTime":1647.319,"body":"you interrupt me, I know what"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1644.459,"endTime":1647.319,"body":"you heard, and so if I need"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1647.319,"endTime":1650.009,"body":"to go back and retrace, like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1647.319,"endTime":1650.009,"body":"I'm gonna pick up where I left"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1650.009,"endTime":1653.9189999999999,"body":"off, or if I'm giving you like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1650.009,"endTime":1653.9189999999999,"body":"an either/or question and you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1653.949,"endTime":1656.829,"body":"only heard the first option and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1653.949,"endTime":1656.829,"body":"then interrupted and said yes,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1657.119,"endTime":1658.439,"body":"I know what that meant, right?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1658.469,"endTime":1660.489,"body":"But because you meant the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1658.469,"endTime":1660.489,"body":"option that you heard."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1660.739,"endTime":1663.899,"body":"But an LLM doesn't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1660.739,"endTime":1663.899,"body":"know if it gets interrupted,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1663.899,"endTime":1666.099,"body":"like how much of its"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1663.899,"endTime":1666.099,"body":"previous thing did you hear?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1666.099,"endTime":1668.809,"body":"So if it's saying, \"Do you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1666.099,"endTime":1668.809,"body":"need to check the status"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1668.809,"endTime":1671.9189999999999,"body":"of a new card or report a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1668.809,"endTime":1671.9189999999999,"body":"lost one?\" And you interrupt"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1671.9189999999999,"endTime":1674.129,"body":"after check the status of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1671.9189999999999,"endTime":1674.129,"body":"a new card and say, \"Yes.\""},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1674.219,"endTime":1674.4189999999999,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1674.689,"endTime":1675.479,"body":"It doesn't know what-"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1675.719,"endTime":1677.299,"body":"When you said yes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1675.719,"endTime":1677.299,"body":"and what you said yes to."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1677.519,"endTime":1678.779,"body":"Yes to,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1677.519,"endTime":1678.779,"body":"'cause it doesn't hear"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1678.779,"endTime":1680.129,"body":"itself talk necessarily."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1680.279,"endTime":1683.619,"body":"So like these kind of dynamics"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1680.279,"endTime":1683.619,"body":"of turn-taking in conversation"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1683.619,"endTime":1686.279,"body":"are like really hard to get"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1683.619,"endTime":1686.279,"body":"down technically and like need"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1686.279,"endTime":1688.869,"body":"to be in place in order for,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1686.279,"endTime":1688.869,"body":"you know, the system to be"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1688.869,"endTime":1690.829,"body":"navigable and usable in the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1688.869,"endTime":1690.829,"body":"way that I'm describing, but"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1690.829,"endTime":1693.939,"body":"also in order to not give you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1690.829,"endTime":1693.939,"body":"that sense of like, oh my God,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1693.999,"endTime":1697.999,"body":"this is like the slowest, most"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1693.999,"endTime":1697.999,"body":"painful, torturous interaction"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1697.999,"endTime":1700.269,"body":"where I'm waiting three"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1697.999,"endTime":1700.269,"body":"seconds after I say everything"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1700.269,"endTime":1701.469,"body":"to hear the agent respond."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1701.771,"endTime":1703.6209999999999,"body":"The other thing about sort"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1701.771,"endTime":1703.6209999999999,"body":"of real-time dynamics of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1703.6209999999999,"endTime":1706.441,"body":"conversation is that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1703.6209999999999,"endTime":1706.441,"body":"we don't have a record of what"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1706.441,"endTime":1708.801,"body":"was said previously in the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1706.441,"endTime":1708.801,"body":"way that we do when someone's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1708.951,"endTime":1710.471,"body":"chatting with an, a chatbot."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1710.781,"endTime":1713.961,"body":"And so this is a big weakness"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1710.781,"endTime":1713.961,"body":"for large language models that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1713.991,"endTime":1716.811,"body":"are fundamentally, at least"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1713.991,"endTime":1716.811,"body":"for the time being, mostly"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1716.811,"endTime":1720.1009999999999,"body":"text-based, and are trained"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1716.811,"endTime":1720.1009999999999,"body":"largely on long-form text"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1720.1009999999999,"endTime":1721.441,"body":"and structured text at that."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1721.441,"endTime":1724.791,"body":"So the text with bullets and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1721.441,"endTime":1724.791,"body":"parentheses and paragraphs"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1724.791,"endTime":1727.581,"body":"and headers where it's used"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1724.791,"endTime":1727.581,"body":"to providing information"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1727.581,"endTime":1730.201,"body":"in a way that's digestible"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1727.581,"endTime":1730.201,"body":"in this kind of long form"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1730.201,"endTime":1731.341,"body":"structured text format."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1731.531,"endTime":1735.061,"body":"And that's just like not how"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1731.531,"endTime":1735.061,"body":"active processing memory works"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1735.1009999999999,"endTime":1736.421,"body":"in real-time conversation."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1736.561,"endTime":1738.781,"body":"Like, I'm giving you a bit of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1736.561,"endTime":1738.781,"body":"a monologue and a paragraph"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1738.781,"endTime":1741.931,"body":"right now, but normally, like if"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1738.781,"endTime":1741.931,"body":"you were providing me a bit of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1741.931,"endTime":1744.701,"body":"information and it was a really"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1741.931,"endTime":1744.701,"body":"dense piece of information, say"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1744.701,"endTime":1747.841,"body":"you had to convey an address or"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1744.701,"endTime":1747.841,"body":"a URL or a phone number, like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1747.841,"endTime":1751.691,"body":"we have multi-turn routines that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1747.841,"endTime":1751.691,"body":"we follow in order to convey"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1751.691,"endTime":1754.381,"body":"that information and ensure"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1751.691,"endTime":1754.381,"body":"that the recipient has got it."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1754.581,"endTime":1757.921,"body":"So, you know, maybe if you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1754.581,"endTime":1757.921,"body":"ask for an address, whereas"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1758.021,"endTime":1760.3509999999999,"body":"over chat, I can just sort"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1758.021,"endTime":1760.3509999999999,"body":"of send you the address, and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1760.3509999999999,"endTime":1762.201,"body":"you can click on it and go"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1760.3509999999999,"endTime":1762.201,"body":"to Google Maps or whatever."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1762.481,"endTime":1764.221,"body":"Over the phone, I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1762.481,"endTime":1764.221,"body":"say, you know, \"Do you have"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1764.221,"endTime":1766.1109999999999,"body":"something to write it down"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1764.221,"endTime":1766.1109999999999,"body":"with?\" You say, \"No, let me"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1766.1109999999999,"endTime":1768.191,"body":"go get that.\" I'm like, \"Sure,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1766.1109999999999,"endTime":1768.191,"body":"okay, I'll wait for you.\""},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1768.3709999999999,"endTime":1770.151,"body":"You come back, you're like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1768.3709999999999,"endTime":1770.151,"body":"\"Okay, what's the address?\""},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1770.201,"endTime":1772.171,"body":"I give you the building"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1770.201,"endTime":1772.171,"body":"number and street name."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1772.3509999999999,"endTime":1774.061,"body":"You ask for the spelling"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1772.3509999999999,"endTime":1774.061,"body":"of the street name."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1774.061,"endTime":1775.231,"body":"I spell it out to you."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1775.411,"endTime":1778.991,"body":"It's this whole multi-turn"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1775.411,"endTime":1778.991,"body":"routine that is completely"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1779.231,"endTime":1783.891,"body":"obviated by a channel where"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1779.231,"endTime":1783.891,"body":"turn-taking and the written"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1783.891,"endTime":1786.821,"body":"record sort of supplements"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1783.891,"endTime":1786.821,"body":"that processing memory."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1787.011,"endTime":1789.391,"body":"So those are what I would"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1787.011,"endTime":1789.391,"body":"call kind of the boring stuff."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1789.391,"endTime":1791.131,"body":"And then, you know, then"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1789.391,"endTime":1791.131,"body":"we can get into some of the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1791.131,"endTime":1794.961,"body":"more fun for me as a linguist"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1791.131,"endTime":1794.961,"body":"to talk about the nuances"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1794.961,"endTime":1797.931,"body":"of spoken conversation and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1794.961,"endTime":1797.931,"body":"cooperative dialogue that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1797.931,"endTime":1800.091,"body":"particularly affect that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1797.931,"endTime":1800.091,"body":"uncanny valley problem."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1800.241,"endTime":1801.541,"body":"I guess I could pause"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1800.241,"endTime":1801.541,"body":"there though, 'cause I"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1801.541,"endTime":1802.521,"body":"know I went into a lot."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1802.551,"endTime":1803.641,"body":"No, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1802.551,"endTime":1803.641,"body":"think that's great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1803.641,"endTime":1805.911,"body":"I mean, I do think we should"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1803.641,"endTime":1805.911,"body":"dive in there, but I never"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1805.911,"endTime":1809.191,"body":"even thought about the pace of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1805.911,"endTime":1809.191,"body":"turn-taking in conversation."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1809.3609999999999,"endTime":1811.411,"body":"And as you're saying that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1809.3609999999999,"endTime":1811.411,"body":"I'm realizing that like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1811.631,"endTime":1814.161,"body":"you know, I don't do a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1811.631,"endTime":1814.161,"body":"lot of voice AI myself."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1814.161,"endTime":1818.191,"body":"I'm mostly typing into an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1814.161,"endTime":1818.191,"body":"LLM like Gemini or ChatGPT or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1818.191,"endTime":1821.751,"body":"Claude, and I am that person who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1818.191,"endTime":1821.751,"body":"like will just walk away, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1821.901,"endTime":1823.631,"body":"I'll just be like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1821.901,"endTime":1823.631,"body":"typing this thing and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1823.631,"endTime":1824.6109999999999,"body":"prompting it, hit enter."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1824.6109999999999,"endTime":1825.741,"body":"I'm like, it'll take a while."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1825.741,"endTime":1827.921,"body":"I'm just gonna go do something"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1825.741,"endTime":1827.921,"body":"else and come back because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1827.921,"endTime":1831.031,"body":"I've used it like this database"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1827.921,"endTime":1831.031,"body":"retrieval machine, whereas"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1831.191,"endTime":1835.301,"body":"that probably, A, isn't the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1831.191,"endTime":1835.301,"body":"goal, B, might actually be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1835.451,"endTime":1838.531,"body":"limiting the benefit I get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1835.451,"endTime":1838.531,"body":"from the experience because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1838.6209999999999,"endTime":1840.341,"body":"it's not this sort of exchange."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1840.401,"endTime":1842.341,"body":"It is sort of like I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1840.401,"endTime":1842.341,"body":"just gonna delegate a task"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1842.341,"endTime":1844.391,"body":"to you, and you come back"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1842.341,"endTime":1844.391,"body":"to me with your long form"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1844.391,"endTime":1846.381,"body":"response, and then I'll"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1844.391,"endTime":1846.381,"body":"copy and paste into a thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1846.381,"endTime":1848.3609999999999,"body":"And it's like, as you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1846.381,"endTime":1848.3609999999999,"body":"saying it, I'm like, oh yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1848.3609999999999,"endTime":1851.8509999999999,"body":"like what I'm doing, at least"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1848.3609999999999,"endTime":1851.8509999999999,"body":"my typing in the text world,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1851.8509999999999,"endTime":1853.381,"body":"is not a dialogue really."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1853.661,"endTime":1855.391,"body":"It's more delegation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1853.661,"endTime":1855.391,"body":"than dialogue."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1855.431,"endTime":1857.991,"body":"But when it is conversation,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1855.431,"endTime":1857.991,"body":"there are these things where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1858.251,"endTime":1859.501,"body":"it wouldn't fly, you know?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1859.501,"endTime":1861.3709999999999,"body":"Like, and there's things that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1859.501,"endTime":1861.3709999999999,"body":"we do, especially call center"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1861.3709999999999,"endTime":1863.291,"body":"agents, right, where you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1861.3709999999999,"endTime":1863.291,"body":"like, you do kind of have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1863.291,"endTime":1864.701,"body":"these little fillers, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1864.891,"endTime":1865.091,"body":"\"Great."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1865.091,"endTime":1865.391,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1865.391,"endTime":1868.1209999999999,"body":"So just wanted to confirm that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1865.391,"endTime":1868.1209999999999,"body":"blah, blah, blah,\" or, \"Hey,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1868.1209999999999,"endTime":1870.1209999999999,"body":"okay, yeah, let me just look"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1868.1209999999999,"endTime":1870.1209999999999,"body":"that up in the system,\" so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1870.1209999999999,"endTime":1874.091,"body":"that you have that whatever"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1870.1209999999999,"endTime":1874.091,"body":"200, 300 millisecond delay"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1874.401,"endTime":1876.461,"body":"sort of filled to be like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1874.401,"endTime":1876.461,"body":"okay, we're interacting."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1876.461,"endTime":1878.805,"body":"This is an exchange It's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1876.461,"endTime":1878.805,"body":"a really interesting way"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1878.805,"endTime":1880.825,"body":"of, like, thinking of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1878.805,"endTime":1880.825,"body":"the momentum of dialogue."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1880.905,"endTime":1882.585,"body":"There's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1880.905,"endTime":1882.585,"body":"something that we do in spoken"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1882.585,"endTime":1884.465,"body":"dialogue, something that's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1882.585,"endTime":1884.465,"body":"called back channeling, which"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1884.465,"endTime":1887.365,"body":"is when-- So you're listening to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1884.465,"endTime":1887.365,"body":"someone, and you just did it for"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1887.365,"endTime":1888.795,"body":"me in a visual way by nodding."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1888.795,"endTime":1891.435,"body":"But, like, verbally, it's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1888.795,"endTime":1891.435,"body":"when you say yep,\" when"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1891.435,"endTime":1893.645,"body":"someone's talking to confirm"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1891.435,"endTime":1893.645,"body":"that you're still with them,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1893.815,"endTime":1896.955,"body":"they still have the floor,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1893.815,"endTime":1896.955,"body":"and you're just confirming"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1896.955,"endTime":1898.425,"body":"that you're with them, you're"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1896.955,"endTime":1898.425,"body":"hearing what they're saying,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1898.425,"endTime":1899.245,"body":"you're getting what they want."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1899.435,"endTime":1902.115,"body":"And there are ways in which"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1899.435,"endTime":1902.115,"body":"those back-channeling routines"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1902.115,"endTime":1905.205,"body":"are actually, like, really"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1902.115,"endTime":1905.205,"body":"expected to a degree that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1905.355,"endTime":1909.355,"body":"you end up with problems"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1905.355,"endTime":1909.355,"body":"and failures if they are not"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1909.355,"endTime":1910.685,"body":"provided at the expected time."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1910.685,"endTime":1912.945,"body":"And this is something I--"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1910.685,"endTime":1912.945,"body":"a problem I sought out to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1912.945,"endTime":1915.595,"body":"solve very early on at my"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1912.945,"endTime":1915.595,"body":"time at Poly, so, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1915.595,"endTime":1919.125,"body":"three-plus years ago, where"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1915.595,"endTime":1919.125,"body":"basically we were asking"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1919.125,"endTime":1920.465,"body":"people for their phone number."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1920.715,"endTime":1922.935,"body":"And, you know, for US and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1920.715,"endTime":1922.935,"body":"Canadian phone numbers, we"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1922.935,"endTime":1925.7649999999999,"body":"typically give them in that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1922.935,"endTime":1925.7649999999999,"body":"area code, three digits,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1925.7649999999999,"endTime":1926.875,"body":"and then four-digit chunk."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1927.035,"endTime":1929.965,"body":"And we have this implicit"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1927.035,"endTime":1929.965,"body":"expectation, and you might not"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1929.965,"endTime":1932.735,"body":"even realize this, that after"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1929.965,"endTime":1932.735,"body":"you give one of those chunks,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1932.735,"endTime":1935.115,"body":"the person is going to kind"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1932.735,"endTime":1935.115,"body":"of confirm that they got it."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1935.2649999999999,"endTime":1937.985,"body":"So people would say something"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1935.2649999999999,"endTime":1937.985,"body":"like, you know, \"My number"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1937.985,"endTime":1941.325,"body":"is one two three,\" and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1937.985,"endTime":1941.325,"body":"then pause And then- Right"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1941.325,"endTime":1943.7549999999999,"body":"if you don't provide a back"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1941.325,"endTime":1943.7549999999999,"body":"channel there, and worse,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1943.785,"endTime":1946.485,"body":"if you think that they've"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1943.785,"endTime":1946.485,"body":"concluded their utterance,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1946.7549999999999,"endTime":1948.205,"body":"then you're gonna be like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1946.7549999999999,"endTime":1948.205,"body":"\"That's not a phone number."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1948.205,"endTime":1950.645,"body":"That was three digits.\" So,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1948.205,"endTime":1950.645,"body":"like, you actually have to teach"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1950.645,"endTime":1954.315,"body":"these models how to provide that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1950.645,"endTime":1954.315,"body":"kind of conversation feedback"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1954.415,"endTime":1957.865,"body":"in order to even navigate a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1954.415,"endTime":1957.865,"body":"data collection point like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1957.865,"endTime":1960.895,"body":"that without failing, because"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1957.865,"endTime":1960.895,"body":"otherwise people actually"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1960.895,"endTime":1963.605,"body":"get confused if they don't"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1960.895,"endTime":1963.605,"body":"receive that kind of feedback."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1963.935,"endTime":1965.7649999999999,"body":"Yeah, and to touch back to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1963.935,"endTime":1965.7649999999999,"body":"what you were saying about,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1965.7649999999999,"endTime":1967.855,"body":"like, typing a big prompt"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1965.7649999999999,"endTime":1967.855,"body":"and then going away, that's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1967.905,"endTime":1970.735,"body":"absolutely something I do"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1967.905,"endTime":1970.735,"body":"with AI assistants as well."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1970.905,"endTime":1973.0249999999999,"body":"But yeah, like, that just"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1970.905,"endTime":1973.0249999999999,"body":"doesn't fly over the phone."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1973.0249999999999,"endTime":1973.7649999999999,"body":"That's not how we talk."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1974.035,"endTime":1976.065,"body":"I guess we could put you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1974.035,"endTime":1976.065,"body":"on hold, but, like, that's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1976.065,"endTime":1976.695,"body":"not a good experience."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1976.695,"endTime":1976.935,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1976.935,"endTime":1979.055,"body":"So, like, we need to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1976.935,"endTime":1979.055,"body":"actually find out ways to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1979.055,"endTime":1982.195,"body":"break out that information"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1979.055,"endTime":1982.195,"body":"gathering, and particularly"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1982.195,"endTime":1985.435,"body":"when conveying information,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1982.195,"endTime":1985.435,"body":"to convey it in a way that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1985.475,"endTime":1988.365,"body":"is structured for real-time"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1985.475,"endTime":1988.365,"body":"processing, in a way that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1988.405,"endTime":1991.485,"body":"over text I can go get lunch"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1988.405,"endTime":1991.485,"body":"and then read the paragraph"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1991.485,"endTime":1993.675,"body":"you sent me afterwards, but"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":1991.485,"endTime":1993.675,"body":"that's just not how it works."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1993.915,"endTime":1994.385,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1994.385,"endTime":1997.115,"body":"So, like, yeah, if I was gonna"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1994.385,"endTime":1997.115,"body":"boil it down, like, even though"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1997.115,"endTime":1998.935,"body":"you say it boring, I find"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1997.115,"endTime":1998.935,"body":"it really interesting, but,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1998.935,"endTime":2001.885,"body":"like, timing is a thing that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1998.935,"endTime":2001.885,"body":"people don't often think about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2001.885,"endTime":2005.5049999999999,"body":"when they're doing real-time"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2001.885,"endTime":2005.5049999999999,"body":"conversational design, and it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2005.5049999999999,"endTime":2007.655,"body":"is kind of a challenge because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2005.5049999999999,"endTime":2007.655,"body":"the technology sometimes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2007.655,"endTime":2009.075,"body":"isn't actually that fast yet."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2009.2649999999999,"endTime":2010.795,"body":"Yeah, so we"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2009.2649999999999,"endTime":2010.795,"body":"have to find ways to sort of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2010.795,"endTime":2013.215,"body":"supplement it, kind of as you're"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2010.795,"endTime":2013.215,"body":"saying, like, with, like, filler"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2013.215,"endTime":2015.695,"body":"utterances or delay utterances,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2013.215,"endTime":2015.695,"body":"which again, I like the way"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2015.695,"endTime":2018.375,"body":"that you said, like, that's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2015.695,"endTime":2018.375,"body":"something that real people"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2018.375,"endTime":2021.115,"body":"have to do also when they're"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2018.375,"endTime":2021.115,"body":"doing something in real time."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2021.115,"endTime":2024.0049999999999,"body":"You know, if I'm clicking around"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2021.115,"endTime":2024.0049999999999,"body":"trying to find your account"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2024.035,"endTime":2026.7749999999999,"body":"in the database and you're on"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2024.035,"endTime":2026.7749999999999,"body":"the phone, I'm not just, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2026.7749999999999,"endTime":2027.785,"body":"leaving you hanging there."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2027.785,"endTime":2030.235,"body":"I'm sort of giving you updates"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2027.785,"endTime":2030.235,"body":"about what I'm doing, and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2030.235,"endTime":2032.735,"body":"I, \"Give me just a second,\""},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2030.235,"endTime":2032.735,"body":"like, \"It's being slow"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2032.735,"endTime":2033.925,"body":"today,\" stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2034.185,"endTime":2036.945,"body":"Have you built an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2034.185,"endTime":2036.945,"body":"agent that, like, has the,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2037.085,"endTime":2039.845,"body":"what I'm gonna call the I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2037.085,"endTime":2039.845,"body":"doing something humming song?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2042.105,"endTime":2043.855,"body":"\"Just gonna click"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2042.105,"endTime":2043.855,"body":"this thing. La la.\""},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2044.165,"endTime":2045.855,"body":"Oh, what's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2044.165,"endTime":2045.855,"body":"funny, actually, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2045.855,"endTime":2047.935,"body":"it used to be that we worked"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2045.855,"endTime":2047.935,"body":"with, like, real voice actors"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2047.935,"endTime":2051.205,"body":"more, and we would absolutely"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2047.935,"endTime":2051.205,"body":"have them, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2051.235,"endTime":2053.465,"body":"keep their sort of default"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2051.235,"endTime":2053.465,"body":"persona, like when they'll"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2053.465,"endTime":2055.885,"body":"extend certain syllables when"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2053.465,"endTime":2055.885,"body":"they're thinking, you know-"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2056.2850000000003,"endTime":2056.655,"body":"Okay, yeah"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2056.655,"endTime":2058.295,"body":"sort of like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2056.655,"endTime":2058.295,"body":"I just did, and they're like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2058.395,"endTime":2062.375,"body":"I don't see your account,\""},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2058.395,"endTime":2062.375,"body":"but, like, that kind of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2062.375,"endTime":2064.445,"body":"thing- ... which, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2062.375,"endTime":2064.445,"body":"clues you that activity is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2064.445,"endTime":2066.935,"body":"happening on the other side"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2064.445,"endTime":2066.935,"body":"even if you can't see it."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2067.341,"endTime":2068.331,"body":"I love that kind of stuff."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2068.371,"endTime":2070.231,"body":"I mean, and that sort of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2068.371,"endTime":2070.231,"body":"gets into, I guess, the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2070.231,"endTime":2072.981,"body":"second group of things that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2070.231,"endTime":2072.981,"body":"I wanted to talk about, which"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2072.981,"endTime":2076.391,"body":"are these subtle ways that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2072.981,"endTime":2076.391,"body":"people follow rules for how"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2076.391,"endTime":2077.871,"body":"language is used in context."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2078.0710000000004,"endTime":2080.251,"body":"In linguistics, this, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2078.0710000000004,"endTime":2080.251,"body":"subfield of linguistics is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2080.251,"endTime":2082.8410000000003,"body":"called pragmatics, and it,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2080.251,"endTime":2082.8410000000003,"body":"like, has to do with how"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2082.8410000000003,"endTime":2085.481,"body":"language is actually used in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2082.8410000000003,"endTime":2085.481,"body":"context and, like, the way"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2085.481,"endTime":2088.4010000000003,"body":"that things we assume about"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2085.481,"endTime":2088.4010000000003,"body":"our conversation partner if"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2088.4010000000003,"endTime":2091.0910000000003,"body":"we are engaged in what we call"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2088.4010000000003,"endTime":2091.0910000000003,"body":"cooperative dialogue, which"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2091.0910000000003,"endTime":2092.311,"body":"we hope is most dialogue."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2092.5110000000004,"endTime":2094.751,"body":"And so these are assumptions"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2092.5110000000004,"endTime":2094.751,"body":"that are like, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2094.751,"endTime":2097.991,"body":"conversation partner is going to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2094.751,"endTime":2097.991,"body":"be as truthful as they can be,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2098.1710000000003,"endTime":2101.3010000000004,"body":"that they are going to provide"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2098.1710000000003,"endTime":2101.3010000000004,"body":"as much information as is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2101.3010000000004,"endTime":2103.201,"body":"necessary, but not more, right?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2103.3410000000003,"endTime":2105.9210000000003,"body":"Because actually, if you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2103.3410000000003,"endTime":2105.9210000000003,"body":"provide additional information"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2106.0710000000004,"endTime":2108.371,"body":"when it's not necessary,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2106.0710000000004,"endTime":2108.371,"body":"that's how we get what we call"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2108.371,"endTime":2109.6310000000003,"body":"conversational implicature."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2109.6310000000003,"endTime":2112.1110000000003,"body":"So that's when you end up"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2109.6310000000003,"endTime":2112.1110000000003,"body":"implying something, is when"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2112.3810000000003,"endTime":2116.351,"body":"you say more information than"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2112.3810000000003,"endTime":2116.351,"body":"the task at hand requires."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2116.5710000000004,"endTime":2118.891,"body":"That's where you get this"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2116.5710000000004,"endTime":2118.891,"body":"sort of meta conversation"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2118.891,"endTime":2122.741,"body":"level of meaning that you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2118.891,"endTime":2122.741,"body":"can end up implying something"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2122.741,"endTime":2123.491,"body":"that you didn't mean to."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2123.491,"endTime":2125.391,"body":"So, like, let me just give you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2123.491,"endTime":2125.391,"body":"an example of that, which is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2125.521,"endTime":2127.621,"body":"one of the things that LLMs"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2125.521,"endTime":2127.621,"body":"love to do, and they're trained"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2127.621,"endTime":2129.9010000000003,"body":"to do this, and it probably"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2127.621,"endTime":2129.9010000000003,"body":"helps the sort of coherence"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2129.9010000000003,"endTime":2132.451,"body":"of their thinking, is explain"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2129.9010000000003,"endTime":2132.451,"body":"everything that they're doing."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2132.451,"endTime":2134.5710000000004,"body":"So explain everything"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2132.451,"endTime":2134.5710000000004,"body":"that they're asking for."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2134.5710000000004,"endTime":2136.2610000000004,"body":"You know, \"In order to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2134.5710000000004,"endTime":2136.2610000000004,"body":"look up your account, I'll"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2136.2610000000004,"endTime":2137.1110000000003,"body":"need your account number."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2137.241,"endTime":2139.9210000000003,"body":"Could you tell me your account"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2137.241,"endTime":2139.9210000000003,"body":"number, please?\" Or if they're,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2140.001,"endTime":2142.3210000000004,"body":"let's say it's walking you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2140.001,"endTime":2142.3210000000004,"body":"through doing something on a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2142.3210000000004,"endTime":2144.6710000000003,"body":"website, you know, changing"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2142.3210000000004,"endTime":2144.6710000000003,"body":"your account password. \"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2144.6710000000003,"endTime":2147.581,"body":"go ahead and click on that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2144.6710000000003,"endTime":2147.581,"body":"profile icon on the top right."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2147.581,"endTime":2149.771,"body":"Let me know when you've done"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2147.581,"endTime":2149.771,"body":"that.\" And so it does these"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2149.771,"endTime":2152.3210000000004,"body":"things where it's, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2149.771,"endTime":2152.3210000000004,"body":"sort of giving you the stage"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2152.3210000000004,"endTime":2155.2110000000002,"body":"directions of conversation"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2152.3210000000004,"endTime":2155.2110000000002,"body":"in a way that naturally"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2155.2110000000002,"endTime":2157.6710000000003,"body":"humans don't do because it's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2155.2110000000002,"endTime":2157.6710000000003,"body":"actually over-informative."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2158.0110000000004,"endTime":2161.141,"body":"I don't need to tell you to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2158.0110000000004,"endTime":2161.141,"body":"tell me once you've followed the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2161.141,"endTime":2163.0310000000004,"body":"instruction that I've provided."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2163.1910000000003,"endTime":2165.471,"body":"Like, you actually already"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2163.1910000000003,"endTime":2165.471,"body":"know how to do that, and if"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2165.471,"endTime":2167.9410000000003,"body":"I tell you to do that every"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2165.471,"endTime":2167.9410000000003,"body":"time, I'm, like, implying that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2167.9410000000003,"endTime":2168.971,"body":"you're stupid or something."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2168.971,"endTime":2171.9610000000002,"body":"Like, you-- Because"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2168.971,"endTime":2171.9610000000002,"body":"again, I'm giving you more"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2171.9610000000002,"endTime":2174.161,"body":"information than is required"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2171.9610000000002,"endTime":2174.161,"body":"for the task at hand."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2174.2110000000002,"endTime":2176.391,"body":"Or, \"In order to look up your"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2174.2110000000002,"endTime":2176.391,"body":"account, I'll need your account"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2176.391,"endTime":2178.621,"body":"number. Could you tell me your"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2176.391,"endTime":2178.621,"body":"account number, please?\" Like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2178.621,"endTime":2180.271,"body":"that's way too much explanation."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2180.271,"endTime":2181.431,"body":"Just ask the account number."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2181.431,"endTime":2183.101,"body":"The person knows why"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2181.431,"endTime":2183.101,"body":"you're asking for it."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2183.3210000000004,"endTime":2185.5910000000003,"body":"And so these are, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2183.3210000000004,"endTime":2185.5910000000003,"body":"my big pet peeves when it"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2185.5910000000003,"endTime":2188.1310000000003,"body":"comes to the way that LLMs"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2185.5910000000003,"endTime":2188.1310000000003,"body":"interact that I actually think"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2188.1310000000003,"endTime":2190.871,"body":"have, you know, obviously it"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2188.1310000000003,"endTime":2190.871,"body":"matters that it annoys me."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2190.871,"endTime":2192.1310000000003,"body":"I think it annoys other people."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2192.1310000000003,"endTime":2194.0510000000004,"body":"That matters from a user"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2192.1310000000003,"endTime":2194.0510000000004,"body":"experience standpoint."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2194.291,"endTime":2197.4410000000003,"body":"But I think actually the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2194.291,"endTime":2197.4410000000003,"body":"way that these undermine"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2197.4410000000003,"endTime":2200.0110000000004,"body":"the sense of real-time"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2197.4410000000003,"endTime":2200.0110000000004,"body":"involvement in the task, right?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2200.181,"endTime":2202.501,"body":"It's not the way that two"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2200.181,"endTime":2202.501,"body":"people who are engaged in the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2202.501,"endTime":2206.3210000000004,"body":"same task interact because of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2202.501,"endTime":2206.3210000000004,"body":"this shared, you know, table of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2206.3210000000004,"endTime":2209.5510000000004,"body":"context, of salient context that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2206.3210000000004,"endTime":2209.5510000000004,"body":"they share in that interaction."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2209.751,"endTime":2214.1710000000003,"body":"And so by not assuming that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2209.751,"endTime":2214.1710000000003,"body":"shared context, I actually"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2214.231,"endTime":2216.351,"body":"undermine that sense of social"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2214.231,"endTime":2216.351,"body":"presence, that sense that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2216.351,"endTime":2219.221,"body":"you and I are together in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2216.351,"endTime":2219.221,"body":"real time navigating this in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2219.221,"endTime":2222.431,"body":"a cooperative, collaborative"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2219.221,"endTime":2222.431,"body":"way, and I make myself out to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2222.431,"endTime":2227.4010000000003,"body":"be some entity that is in some"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2222.431,"endTime":2227.4010000000003,"body":"other place, not aware of what"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2227.4010000000003,"endTime":2229.971,"body":"you're aware of, not seeing"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2227.4010000000003,"endTime":2229.971,"body":"what you're seeing, not knowing"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2229.971,"endTime":2232.101,"body":"what you and I both should"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2229.971,"endTime":2232.101,"body":"be knowing in this moment."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2232.201,"endTime":2234.3610000000003,"body":"And so that's this is kind of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2232.201,"endTime":2234.3610000000003,"body":"the stuff that I really like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2234.3610000000003,"endTime":2237.121,"body":"to nerd out about because"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2234.3610000000003,"endTime":2237.121,"body":"it's so subtle, but something"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2237.121,"endTime":2238.241,"body":"like that really matters."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2238.481,"endTime":2240.161,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2238.481,"endTime":2240.161,"body":"so funny because in a lot"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2240.161,"endTime":2243.5310000000004,"body":"of cases, folks are maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2240.161,"endTime":2243.5310000000004,"body":"not as conversant in this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2243.5310000000004,"endTime":2246.347,"body":"art have probably been like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2243.5310000000004,"endTime":2246.347,"body":"\"That's great. Actually, we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2246.347,"endTime":2249.5370000000003,"body":"should add more words so that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2246.347,"endTime":2249.5370000000003,"body":"people trust this AI more.\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2249.5370000000003,"endTime":2253.0570000000002,"body":"It's like, \"Here's why I need"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2249.5370000000003,"endTime":2253.0570000000002,"body":"your account number, and, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2253.0570000000002,"endTime":2255.8770000000004,"body":"know, please, yeah, let's like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2253.0570000000002,"endTime":2255.8770000000004,"body":"go say, like, please, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2255.8770000000004,"endTime":2258.8970000000004,"body":"tell me when you're done or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2255.8770000000004,"endTime":2258.8970000000004,"body":"whatever.\" We've designed it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2258.8970000000004,"endTime":2261.007,"body":"to, like, try and build trust,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2258.8970000000004,"endTime":2261.007,"body":"but actually we're betraying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2261.007,"endTime":2263.927,"body":"the trust because the pragmatics"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2261.007,"endTime":2263.927,"body":"aspect of things is like we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2263.927,"endTime":2266.7470000000003,"body":"implying that, you know, there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2263.927,"endTime":2266.7470000000003,"body":"isn't this sort of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2266.7870000000003,"endTime":2271.297,"body":"shared level of understanding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2266.7870000000003,"endTime":2271.297,"body":"or trust or even context."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2271.3970000000004,"endTime":2273.327,"body":"And I was just thinking, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2271.3970000000004,"endTime":2273.327,"body":"the thing that takes me out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2273.327,"endTime":2276.337,"body":"every time I have this gem that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2273.327,"endTime":2276.337,"body":"I train and probably pretty"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2276.337,"endTime":2278.367,"body":"poorly, because I'm like, \"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2276.337,"endTime":2278.367,"body":"hey, we're gonna be buddies."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2278.367,"endTime":2280.7070000000003,"body":"We're gonna do this thing every"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2278.367,"endTime":2280.7070000000003,"body":"week.\" And no matter what,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2280.7070000000003,"endTime":2283.779,"body":"every time I prompt, it goes,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2280.7070000000003,"endTime":2283.779,"body":"\"Hey, nice to meet you.\" I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2284.0190000000002,"endTime":2285.3790000000004,"body":"like, \"No, you're on my team."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2285.3790000000004,"endTime":2287.429,"body":"We've done this every week.\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2285.3790000000004,"endTime":2287.429,"body":"You know, and it kind of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2287.429,"endTime":2290.3190000000004,"body":"like, pulls me out of this, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2287.429,"endTime":2290.3190000000004,"body":"then I am out of that context."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2290.3190000000004,"endTime":2293.599,"body":"I'm like, \"Oh, okay, so this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2290.3190000000004,"endTime":2293.599,"body":"person that... Or well, AI in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2293.599,"endTime":2297.1290000000004,"body":"this case, my, my interlocutor"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2293.599,"endTime":2297.1290000000004,"body":"does not understand the shared"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2297.1290000000004,"endTime":2300.3790000000004,"body":"context, so I guess I'll also"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2297.1290000000004,"endTime":2300.3790000000004,"body":"assume that they know nothing,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2300.3790000000004,"endTime":2303.0190000000002,"body":"too.\" And then it becomes this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2300.3790000000004,"endTime":2303.0190000000002,"body":"sort of, like, performative,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2303.0190000000002,"endTime":2304.219,"body":"kind of annoying, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2304.219,"endTime":2304.779,"body":"To your point, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2304.779,"endTime":2307.8590000000004,"body":"It's just annoying to have to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2304.779,"endTime":2307.8590000000004,"body":"do this dance that is unnatural,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2308.079,"endTime":2309.789,"body":"whereas actually, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2308.079,"endTime":2309.789,"body":"picking up what you're putting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2309.789,"endTime":2311.679,"body":"down, sometimes less is more."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2311.7090000000003,"endTime":2312.1090000000004,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2312.159,"endTime":2313.6090000000004,"body":"Like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2312.159,"endTime":2313.6090000000004,"body":"how do you talk?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2313.809,"endTime":2316.5690000000004,"body":"Maybe build that into"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2313.809,"endTime":2316.5690000000004,"body":"your agent, and that might"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2316.5690000000004,"endTime":2319.079,"body":"actually build more trust"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2316.5690000000004,"endTime":2319.079,"body":"and more adoption and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2319.079,"endTime":2323.1490000000003,"body":"actually get people through"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2319.079,"endTime":2323.1490000000003,"body":"to their goal faster than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2323.1490000000003,"endTime":2324.539,"body":"if you explained everything."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2324.7090000000003,"endTime":2325.9790000000003,"body":"Maybe it should be explainable."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2326.159,"endTime":2327.699,"body":"\"Oh wait, why do you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2326.159,"endTime":2327.699,"body":"need my account number?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2327.699,"endTime":2330.159,"body":"Oh, yeah, okay, because of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2327.699,"endTime":2330.159,"body":"this.\" But maybe it's not the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2330.159,"endTime":2333.259,"body":"default interaction to be like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2330.159,"endTime":2333.259,"body":"\"Hi, I'm here to help you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2333.4190000000003,"endTime":2334.6690000000003,"body":"I'm gonna need your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2333.4190000000003,"endTime":2334.6690000000003,"body":"account number."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2334.6690000000003,"endTime":2336.8590000000004,"body":"Don't worry, I'm gonna keep"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2334.6690000000003,"endTime":2336.8590000000004,"body":"it very safe, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2336.8590000000004,"endTime":2339.039,"body":"this is a secure connection and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2336.8590000000004,"endTime":2339.039,"body":"blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2339.039,"endTime":2340.619,"body":"And you're like okay,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2339.039,"endTime":2340.619,"body":"yeah, fine.\" You know?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2341.829,"endTime":2341.949,"body":"100%."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2341.949,"endTime":2344.7490000000003,"body":"And you know, like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2341.949,"endTime":2344.7490000000003,"body":"necessarily have a strong stance"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2344.7490000000003,"endTime":2347.4790000000003,"body":"on, like, a bot introducing"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2344.7490000000003,"endTime":2347.4790000000003,"body":"itself as a bot early in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2347.4790000000003,"endTime":2348.5190000000002,"body":"the conversation or not."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2348.5190000000002,"endTime":2350.1090000000004,"body":"Like, I think that there"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2348.5190000000002,"endTime":2350.1090000000004,"body":"are arguments for both."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2350.159,"endTime":2351.9990000000003,"body":"I certainly don't have a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2350.159,"endTime":2351.9990000000003,"body":"problem with doing that."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2352.1290000000004,"endTime":2354.3590000000004,"body":"But, you know, a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2352.1290000000004,"endTime":2354.3590000000004,"body":"understandably worry that, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2354.3990000000003,"endTime":2357.529,"body":"if we introduce the agent as an"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2354.3990000000003,"endTime":2357.529,"body":"AI agent, you know, no one's--"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2357.6290000000004,"endTime":2359.489,"body":"people are just gonna be like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2357.6290000000004,"endTime":2359.489,"body":"refuse to interact with it."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2359.6290000000004,"endTime":2361.799,"body":"On the other hand, sort of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2359.6290000000004,"endTime":2361.799,"body":"as you're implying, like a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2361.799,"endTime":2363.8790000000004,"body":"lot of people have worries"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2361.799,"endTime":2363.8790000000004,"body":"about transparency and, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2363.8790000000004,"endTime":2366.509,"body":"want to convey, make sure"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2363.8790000000004,"endTime":2366.509,"body":"that people know what kind"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2366.509,"endTime":2367.4990000000003,"body":"of entity they're talking to."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2367.4990000000003,"endTime":2369.369,"body":"I'm absolutely sympathetic"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2367.4990000000003,"endTime":2369.369,"body":"to that as well."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2369.509,"endTime":2372.469,"body":"But I do think that it's the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2369.509,"endTime":2372.469,"body":"worst way you could possibly do"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2372.469,"endTime":2374.949,"body":"it is be like, \"Hello, you're"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2372.469,"endTime":2374.949,"body":"currently speaking with an"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2374.949,"endTime":2376.4590000000003,"body":"AI-enabled virtual assistant.\""},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2376.5690000000004,"endTime":2376.719,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2376.719,"endTime":2378.7490000000003,"body":"\"This conversation is gonna"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2376.719,"endTime":2378.7490000000003,"body":"be recorded and blah, blah,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2378.7490000000003,"endTime":2382.009,"body":"blah, blah.\" Like, we need to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2378.7490000000003,"endTime":2382.009,"body":"introduce it in as human-like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2382.049,"endTime":2384.9790000000003,"body":"a way as possible still,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2382.049,"endTime":2384.9790000000003,"body":"again, not with the aim of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2384.9790000000003,"endTime":2388.7290000000003,"body":"deceiving anyone, but just"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2384.9790000000003,"endTime":2388.7290000000003,"body":"because it sets the tone for"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2388.8990000000003,"endTime":2391.9790000000003,"body":"the capabilities that the system"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2388.8990000000003,"endTime":2391.9790000000003,"body":"has and the way that you want"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2391.9790000000003,"endTime":2393.1890000000003,"body":"the user to interact with it."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2393.1890000000003,"endTime":2394.6290000000004,"body":"Like, do you want it to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2393.1890000000003,"endTime":2394.6290000000004,"body":"actually- Right ... try and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2394.6290000000004,"endTime":2396.909,"body":"develop a sense of rapport"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2394.6290000000004,"endTime":2396.909,"body":"with your agent, or do you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2396.909,"endTime":2399.2490000000003,"body":"want them to treat it like a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2396.909,"endTime":2399.2490000000003,"body":"legacy IVR where they're just"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2399.2490000000003,"endTime":2401.3390000000004,"body":"gonna be shouting keywords"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2399.2490000000003,"endTime":2401.3390000000004,"body":"at it, like, the whole time?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2401.639,"endTime":2404.3590000000004,"body":"So, you know, when we do have"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2401.639,"endTime":2404.3590000000004,"body":"those, like, disclosures at"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2404.3590000000004,"endTime":2406.529,"body":"the beginning of interactions,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2404.3590000000004,"endTime":2406.529,"body":"I always try and sort of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2406.529,"endTime":2408.809,"body":"build them organically"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2406.529,"endTime":2408.809,"body":"into the greet utterance."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2408.809,"endTime":2411.099,"body":"You know, say something like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2408.809,"endTime":2411.099,"body":"you know, give the agent a name."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2411.099,"endTime":2412.549,"body":"Say, \"Hi, I'm Oliver."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2412.549,"endTime":2414.3990000000003,"body":"I'm such and such company's"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2412.549,"endTime":2414.3990000000003,"body":"virtual assistant."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2414.3990000000003,"endTime":2416.1690000000003,"body":"How can I help?\""},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2414.3990000000003,"endTime":2416.1690000000003,"body":"Or, \"Hi, I'm Oliver."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2416.1690000000003,"endTime":2417.509,"body":"I'm such and such company's AI."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2417.509,"endTime":2419.449,"body":"How can I help?\" And, you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2417.509,"endTime":2419.449,"body":"know, leave that interaction,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2419.5890000000004,"endTime":2422.3790000000004,"body":"that first turn really"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2419.5890000000004,"endTime":2422.3790000000004,"body":"open-ended, keep it as"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2422.3790000000004,"endTime":2424.529,"body":"concise as possible, because"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2422.3790000000004,"endTime":2424.529,"body":"just as you're saying, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2424.559,"endTime":2427.0690000000004,"body":"yes, less is more absolutely"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2424.559,"endTime":2427.0690000000004,"body":"in conversation design."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2427.3990000000003,"endTime":2428.639,"body":"I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2427.3990000000003,"endTime":2428.639,"body":"really good point, and I know"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2428.639,"endTime":2430.6890000000003,"body":"you and I touched on it in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2428.639,"endTime":2430.6890000000003,"body":"an earlier conversation we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2430.6890000000003,"endTime":2433.5890000000004,"body":"had, this idea of... And I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2430.6890000000003,"endTime":2433.5890000000004,"body":"think I was on this vein of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2433.5890000000004,"endTime":2435.139,"body":"like, can we take it too far?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2435.139,"endTime":2436.9990000000003,"body":"And I think you had said,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2435.139,"endTime":2436.9990000000003,"body":"like, yeah, the goal is not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2436.9990000000003,"endTime":2440.549,"body":"to, like, replace a human or,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2436.9990000000003,"endTime":2440.549,"body":"like, trick people, I guess."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2440.739,"endTime":2444.289,"body":"It's still an interaction that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2440.739,"endTime":2444.289,"body":"is, uses natural language,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2444.289,"endTime":2446.7490000000003,"body":"but, like, we're not trying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2444.289,"endTime":2446.7490000000003,"body":"to be like, \"Oh, ha,\" like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2447.099,"endTime":2449.2490000000003,"body":"you can't tell the difference,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2447.099,"endTime":2449.2490000000003,"body":"and you'll never know which"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2449.2490000000003,"endTime":2452.2490000000003,"body":"ones are our human agents and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2449.2490000000003,"endTime":2452.2490000000003,"body":"which ones are our AI agents."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2452.4190000000003,"endTime":2453.8990000000003,"body":"We just want it to be natural."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2454.295,"endTime":2454.945,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2454.945,"endTime":2456.4150000000004,"body":"I mean, first of all, I'd"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2454.945,"endTime":2456.4150000000004,"body":"like to say like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2456.4150000000004,"endTime":2458.335,"body":"no one's getting gold"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2456.4150000000004,"endTime":2458.335,"body":"stars for tricking anyone."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2458.335,"endTime":2460.4150000000004,"body":"Like, that's not"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2458.335,"endTime":2460.4150000000004,"body":"something we wanna do."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2460.715,"endTime":2464.625,"body":"Like, what we want to do is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2460.715,"endTime":2464.625,"body":"reserve people's problem-solving"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2464.625,"endTime":2468.0550000000003,"body":"brain for the actual task at"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2464.625,"endTime":2468.0550000000003,"body":"hand, and not the problem of how"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2468.0550000000003,"endTime":2470.655,"body":"to navigate the interaction to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2468.0550000000003,"endTime":2470.655,"body":"solve the task at hand, right?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2470.655,"endTime":2473.6850000000004,"body":"Like, what we find yourself"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2470.655,"endTime":2473.6850000000004,"body":"doing when you call a company"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2473.6850000000004,"endTime":2476.7650000000003,"body":"and you reach a phone menu, is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2473.6850000000004,"endTime":2476.7650000000003,"body":"you're like reverse engineering"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2476.7650000000003,"endTime":2481.1150000000002,"body":"in your head how the person who"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2476.7650000000003,"endTime":2481.1150000000002,"body":"designed this intent ontology"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2481.1150000000002,"endTime":2484.1650000000004,"body":"for the phone menu, where"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2481.1150000000002,"endTime":2484.1650000000004,"body":"your issue fits into that."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2484.1650000000004,"endTime":2486.145,"body":"So you're trying to think"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2484.1650000000004,"endTime":2486.145,"body":"like, \"Okay, would they have"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2486.145,"endTime":2489.815,"body":"categorized it as account"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2486.145,"endTime":2489.815,"body":"problem or as like...\""},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2490.065,"endTime":2492.7050000000004,"body":"And so suddenly you're deploying"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2490.065,"endTime":2492.7050000000004,"body":"all these cognitive resources"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2492.7050000000004,"endTime":2494.895,"body":"toward like actually just"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2492.7050000000004,"endTime":2494.895,"body":"the task of navigating the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2494.895,"endTime":2497.4350000000004,"body":"interaction as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2494.895,"endTime":2497.4350000000004,"body":"actually toward, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2497.4350000000004,"endTime":2499.5350000000003,"body":"resetting your password or"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2497.4350000000004,"endTime":2499.5350000000003,"body":"solving the problem, right?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2499.5350000000003,"endTime":2502.315,"body":"So like the goal is to allow"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2499.5350000000003,"endTime":2502.315,"body":"people to use their intuitive"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2502.315,"endTime":2504.735,"body":"linguistic faculties, sort of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2502.315,"endTime":2504.735,"body":"to circle back to what we were"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2504.735,"endTime":2507.335,"body":"talking about at the beginning,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2504.735,"endTime":2507.335,"body":"to fall back on those really"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2507.335,"endTime":2510.105,"body":"intuitive cognitive faculties,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2507.335,"endTime":2510.105,"body":"those intuitions of how they"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2510.105,"endTime":2513.1850000000004,"body":"interact with people in the real"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2510.105,"endTime":2513.1850000000004,"body":"world, to reserve their, you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2513.1850000000004,"endTime":2515.855,"body":"know, problem-solving brain for"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2513.1850000000004,"endTime":2515.855,"body":"the actual thing that they're"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2515.855,"endTime":2518.145,"body":"trying to do, as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2515.855,"endTime":2518.145,"body":"like navigating the interaction."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2518.395,"endTime":2519.875,"body":"That's really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2518.395,"endTime":2519.875,"body":"interesting, and I agree."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2519.875,"endTime":2521.775,"body":"To build that friction in the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2519.875,"endTime":2521.775,"body":"experience when you're like, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2521.775,"endTime":2524.0950000000003,"body":"know, using your problem-solving"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2521.775,"endTime":2524.0950000000003,"body":"brain to like reverse engineer"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2524.0950000000003,"endTime":2525.8450000000003,"body":"how they designed this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2524.0950000000003,"endTime":2525.8450000000003,"body":"experience, that's like what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2525.8450000000003,"endTime":2529.7850000000003,"body":"UX has been about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2525.8450000000003,"endTime":2529.7850000000003,"body":"removing for a long time now."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2529.9750000000004,"endTime":2533.395,"body":"I mean, is that why"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2529.9750000000004,"endTime":2533.395,"body":"conversation is sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2533.625,"endTime":2535.0150000000003,"body":"back and sort of popular?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2535.215,"endTime":2541.5350000000003,"body":"Why is it that language is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2535.215,"endTime":2541.5350000000003,"body":"actually more ideal for this?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2541.755,"endTime":2543.9750000000004,"body":"And I know you've listed"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2541.755,"endTime":2543.9750000000004,"body":"like a whole bunch of reasons"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2543.9750000000004,"endTime":2547.395,"body":"throughout, but like you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2543.9750000000004,"endTime":2547.395,"body":"if that's true, why is it so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2547.395,"endTime":2550.8650000000002,"body":"difficult to nail in terms of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2547.395,"endTime":2550.8650000000002,"body":"like designing an experience?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2550.8650000000002,"endTime":2552.445,"body":"Like why conversation,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2550.8650000000002,"endTime":2552.445,"body":"and why is it hard?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2552.873,"endTime":2554.893,"body":"Well, the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2552.873,"endTime":2554.893,"body":"question of, like, why is"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2554.893,"endTime":2557.833,"body":"language so difficult to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2554.893,"endTime":2557.833,"body":"nail and simulate is, like, a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2557.833,"endTime":2560.3630000000003,"body":"paraphrase of, like, the core"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2557.833,"endTime":2560.3630000000003,"body":"question of linguistics, which"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2560.3630000000003,"endTime":2564.5130000000004,"body":"is basically like, like, how"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2560.3630000000003,"endTime":2564.5130000000004,"body":"do we model this human language"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2564.5130000000004,"endTime":2567.6530000000002,"body":"faculty, you know, possibly in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2564.5130000000004,"endTime":2567.6530000000002,"body":"such a way that we could then"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2567.6530000000002,"endTime":2570.253,"body":"programmatically replicate it,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2567.6530000000002,"endTime":2570.253,"body":"like, in a computational system?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2570.5730000000003,"endTime":2573.003,"body":"You know, the miracle of the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2570.5730000000003,"endTime":2573.003,"body":"human language faculty is that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2573.003,"endTime":2575.3830000000003,"body":"a child, by the time they're"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2573.003,"endTime":2575.3830000000003,"body":"three, four, five years old,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2575.463,"endTime":2579.413,"body":"is, like, fluent in a language"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2575.463,"endTime":2579.413,"body":"with an astonishingly low"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2579.413,"endTime":2582.623,"body":"level of exposure to that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2579.413,"endTime":2582.623,"body":"language compared to large"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2582.623,"endTime":2583.4230000000002,"body":"language models, right?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2583.4230000000002,"endTime":2587.163,"body":"Like, even GPT-2 or 3 was"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2583.4230000000002,"endTime":2587.163,"body":"exposed to thousands and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2587.163,"endTime":2589.693,"body":"thousands, if not millions"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2587.163,"endTime":2589.693,"body":"of times more language"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2589.693,"endTime":2591.693,"body":"than a child is by the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2589.693,"endTime":2591.693,"body":"time they're completely"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2591.693,"endTime":2592.643,"body":"linguistically competent."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2592.8430000000003,"endTime":2595.853,"body":"And what that leads linguists"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2592.8430000000003,"endTime":2595.853,"body":"to believe is that we have this"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2595.853,"endTime":2598.6130000000003,"body":"inbuilt cognitive architecture"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2595.853,"endTime":2598.6130000000003,"body":"that is, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2598.6130000000003,"endTime":2600.983,"body":"evolved for acquiring language."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2601.1130000000003,"endTime":2603.643,"body":"And so the task of the linguist"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2601.1130000000003,"endTime":2603.643,"body":"is, like, basically what does"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2603.643,"endTime":2604.813,"body":"that architecture consist of?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2604.813,"endTime":2606.253,"body":"Like, what are the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2604.813,"endTime":2606.253,"body":"dials and knobs?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2606.253,"endTime":2609.183,"body":"What are the parameters"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2606.253,"endTime":2609.183,"body":"that can be set and unset?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2609.3430000000003,"endTime":2611.963,"body":"Like, what are the operations"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2609.3430000000003,"endTime":2611.963,"body":"that your brain is performing"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2611.963,"endTime":2615.1130000000003,"body":"when constructing a sentence"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2611.963,"endTime":2615.1130000000003,"body":"and retrieving words from your,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2615.1130000000003,"endTime":2617.453,"body":"like, mental lexicon, and how"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2615.1130000000003,"endTime":2617.453,"body":"could we model that in such a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2617.453,"endTime":2619.8230000000003,"body":"way that in theory, a computer"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2617.453,"endTime":2619.8230000000003,"body":"could do the same thing?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2620.063,"endTime":2621.483,"body":"The breakthrough that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2620.063,"endTime":2621.483,"body":"we've had over the past"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2621.483,"endTime":2624.023,"body":"few years is ultimately a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2621.483,"endTime":2624.023,"body":"brute force breakthrough."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2624.0530000000003,"endTime":2626.753,"body":"Like, it's like we haven't"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2624.0530000000003,"endTime":2626.753,"body":"actually figured that out any"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2626.753,"endTime":2629.0330000000004,"body":"more than, you know, all the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2626.753,"endTime":2629.0330000000004,"body":"great theoretical linguists"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2629.0330000000004,"endTime":2630.9230000000002,"body":"who are currently still"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2629.0330000000004,"endTime":2630.9230000000002,"body":"doing that work are doing."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2631.1530000000002,"endTime":2634.433,"body":"We just basically achieved an"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2631.1530000000002,"endTime":2634.433,"body":"engineering breakthrough whereby"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2634.483,"endTime":2638.2430000000004,"body":"we could kind of, by exposing,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2634.483,"endTime":2638.2430000000004,"body":"you know, by having trillions"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2638.2430000000004,"endTime":2640.793,"body":"and trillions of parameters and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2638.2430000000004,"endTime":2640.793,"body":"exposing the entire internet"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2640.953,"endTime":2643.963,"body":"and the entire written history"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2640.953,"endTime":2643.963,"body":"of human text to a model, we"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2643.963,"endTime":2647.143,"body":"could get it to kinda sorta"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2643.963,"endTime":2647.143,"body":"almost do the same thing that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2647.143,"endTime":2649.2230000000004,"body":"a human child does by the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2647.143,"endTime":2649.2230000000004,"body":"time they're three years old."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2649.333,"endTime":2652.563,"body":"Like, s- so, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2649.333,"endTime":2652.563,"body":"problem with language is far"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2652.563,"endTime":2655.2830000000004,"body":"from solved, but I think that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2652.563,"endTime":2655.2830000000004,"body":"the answer to your question"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2655.2830000000004,"endTime":2658.0130000000004,"body":"about, like, why we're pivoting"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2655.2830000000004,"endTime":2658.0130000000004,"body":"to language is that suddenly"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2658.0130000000004,"endTime":2660.453,"body":"we've had this breakthrough"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2658.0130000000004,"endTime":2660.453,"body":"in this brute force approach,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2660.483,"endTime":2661.5530000000003,"body":"which is very useful."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2661.6730000000002,"endTime":2664.083,"body":"But there are absolutely"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2661.6730000000002,"endTime":2664.083,"body":"people, myself included, that,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2664.083,"endTime":2667.623,"body":"like, I think hopes that we"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2664.083,"endTime":2667.623,"body":"will still continue to pursue"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2667.713,"endTime":2671.509,"body":"AI from A direction that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2667.713,"endTime":2671.509,"body":"models more the way that human"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2671.509,"endTime":2673.679,"body":"cognition actually works,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2671.509,"endTime":2673.679,"body":"that like what people call,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2673.679,"endTime":2674.9590000000003,"body":"like, symbolic reasoning."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2675.139,"endTime":2677.8190000000004,"body":"And there are fields of AI that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2675.139,"endTime":2677.8190000000004,"body":"are sort of more focused on"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2677.8190000000004,"endTime":2680.889,"body":"this, that are less about like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2677.8190000000004,"endTime":2680.889,"body":"okay, auto-complete the next"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2680.889,"endTime":2684.299,"body":"token, like what's the next"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2680.889,"endTime":2684.299,"body":"token, and more about actually"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2684.3590000000004,"endTime":2687.5190000000002,"body":"computing over abstractions"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2684.3590000000004,"endTime":2687.5190000000002,"body":"of concepts and words and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2687.5190000000002,"endTime":2689.969,"body":"sentence structures in the way"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2687.5190000000002,"endTime":2689.969,"body":"that humans actually do it."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2690.1290000000004,"endTime":2692.789,"body":"So actually, like my suspicion"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2690.1290000000004,"endTime":2692.789,"body":"is that we're going to run up"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2692.789,"endTime":2695.949,"body":"against a bit of a diminishing"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2692.789,"endTime":2695.949,"body":"returns or a bit of a wall when"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2695.949,"endTime":2698.929,"body":"it comes to, like, this LLM"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2695.949,"endTime":2698.929,"body":"approach where we just add more"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2698.929,"endTime":2702.1690000000003,"body":"parameters and train on more"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2698.929,"endTime":2702.1690000000003,"body":"text, and that fundamentally,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2702.1690000000003,"endTime":2705.369,"body":"like when it comes to reasoning"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2702.1690000000003,"endTime":2705.369,"body":"and the ability to not make"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2705.369,"endTime":2707.7290000000003,"body":"all of those stupid mistakes"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2705.369,"endTime":2707.7290000000003,"body":"that we constantly see people"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2707.7290000000003,"endTime":2711.489,"body":"posting online that LLMs do,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2707.7290000000003,"endTime":2711.489,"body":"like gonna require a complete,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2711.529,"endTime":2713.529,"body":"a fundamentally different"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2711.529,"endTime":2713.529,"body":"approach, I think, an approach"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2713.529,"endTime":2716.029,"body":"that is actually closer to,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2713.529,"endTime":2716.029,"body":"like, that kind of symbolic"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2716.029,"endTime":2717.079,"body":"reasoning that humans do."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2717.259,"endTime":2719.409,"body":"That was quite a tangent I just"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2717.259,"endTime":2719.409,"body":"went on, but those are some of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2719.409,"endTime":2722.449,"body":"my like philosophical and like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2719.409,"endTime":2722.449,"body":"ontological commitments about"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2722.449,"endTime":2723.869,"body":"what thinking and language are."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2724.079,"endTime":2726.0190000000002,"body":"I think it's so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2724.079,"endTime":2726.0190000000002,"body":"important because, again,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2726.0190000000002,"endTime":2729.5190000000002,"body":"like AI today is like the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2726.0190000000002,"endTime":2729.5190000000002,"body":"ultimate party trick, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2729.6090000000004,"endTime":2732.469,"body":"It looks so capable,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2729.6090000000004,"endTime":2732.469,"body":"but actually we haven't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2732.469,"endTime":2733.509,"body":"cracked the code on it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2733.6090000000004,"endTime":2736.619,"body":"This is early days, and like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2733.6090000000004,"endTime":2736.619,"body":"the way we approach models"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2736.619,"endTime":2739.2090000000003,"body":"will have to be different than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2736.619,"endTime":2739.2090000000003,"body":"the brute force approaches."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2739.4390000000003,"endTime":2742.739,"body":"We can only get so far with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2739.4390000000003,"endTime":2742.739,"body":"this, but it is very impressive."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2742.779,"endTime":2745.1890000000003,"body":"And it, you know, coming back"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2742.779,"endTime":2745.1890000000003,"body":"to the nobody gets gold stars"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2745.1890000000003,"endTime":2746.599,"body":"for tricking anybody, you know?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2746.6290000000004,"endTime":2747.9190000000003,"body":"Like I think that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2746.6290000000004,"endTime":2747.9190000000003,"body":"important to remember."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2747.9190000000003,"endTime":2749.489,"body":"No one's trying to trick"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2747.9190000000003,"endTime":2749.489,"body":"anyone there, but it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2749.489,"endTime":2751.1890000000003,"body":"so captivating to use."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2751.1890000000003,"endTime":2753.679,"body":"You're like, \"Wow, this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2751.1890000000003,"endTime":2753.679,"body":"thing, like it knows so much"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2753.679,"endTime":2755.7690000000002,"body":"more than anyone I've ever"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2753.679,"endTime":2755.7690000000002,"body":"talked to, and like the,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2755.889,"endTime":2756.7690000000002,"body":"you know, it's limitless."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2756.7690000000002,"endTime":2758.369,"body":"I can have a conversation with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2756.7690000000002,"endTime":2758.369,"body":"it.\" And then you're like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2758.3990000000003,"endTime":2760.679,"body":"\"Oh, but it thinks, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2758.3990000000003,"endTime":2760.679,"body":"four plus two is seven,\" so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2760.679,"endTime":2763.789,"body":"like, you know, it's like it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2760.679,"endTime":2763.789,"body":"this cognitive disconnect."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2763.829,"endTime":2767.2290000000003,"body":"But it is because, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2763.829,"endTime":2767.2290000000003,"body":"know, we've brute forced,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2767.2290000000003,"endTime":2769.8790000000004,"body":"we figured out a way to like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2767.2290000000003,"endTime":2769.8790000000004,"body":"have natural-ish dialogue"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2770.1090000000004,"endTime":2772.8790000000004,"body":"almost to gather more data"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2770.1090000000004,"endTime":2772.8790000000004,"body":"to continue figuring it out."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2772.8790000000004,"endTime":2774.2090000000003,"body":"This is like the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2772.8790000000004,"endTime":2774.2090000000003,"body":"beginning, not the end."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2774.449,"endTime":2776.869,"body":"And I think that's actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2774.449,"endTime":2776.869,"body":"like a really good reminder"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2776.869,"endTime":2779.239,"body":"for folks, especially who are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2776.869,"endTime":2779.239,"body":"building this, that it's like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2779.369,"endTime":2781.1890000000003,"body":"no, it's not because you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2779.369,"endTime":2781.1890000000003,"body":"dumb, it's because language"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2781.1890000000003,"endTime":2783.869,"body":"is really complex and our"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2781.1890000000003,"endTime":2783.869,"body":"brains are really complex,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2783.869,"endTime":2787.1290000000004,"body":"and like there's no one way"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2783.869,"endTime":2787.1290000000004,"body":"to just like crack it, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2787.1290000000004,"endTime":2789.579,"body":"suddenly you can have like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2787.1290000000004,"endTime":2789.579,"body":"the best, most natural-feeling"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2789.6090000000004,"endTime":2791.219,"body":"agent known to humankind."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2791.509,"endTime":2794.079,"body":"But maybe with that, I think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2791.509,"endTime":2794.079,"body":"we've been kind of like going"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2794.079,"endTime":2797.159,"body":"through this theme of like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2794.079,"endTime":2797.159,"body":"yeah, like we are used to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2797.199,"endTime":2798.789,"body":"visual interaction design."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2799.029,"endTime":2802.079,"body":"It's sort of modeled on our"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2799.029,"endTime":2802.079,"body":"real-world interactions, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2802.079,"endTime":2805.2090000000003,"body":"now a lot of folks are kind"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2802.079,"endTime":2805.2090000000003,"body":"of, you know, moving into this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2805.2090000000003,"endTime":2807.1090000000004,"body":"territory where they're like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2805.2090000000003,"endTime":2807.1090000000004,"body":"\"Okay, well, we also need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2807.1090000000004,"endTime":2809.8190000000004,"body":"think about conversational"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2807.1090000000004,"endTime":2809.8190000000004,"body":"interaction and voice"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2809.8190000000004,"endTime":2812.719,"body":"interaction,\" which arguably,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2809.8190000000004,"endTime":2812.719,"body":"you know, is a bit of a shift."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2812.929,"endTime":2816.529,"body":"So like for teams that are used"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2812.929,"endTime":2816.529,"body":"to designing visual interfaces,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2816.759,"endTime":2819.3590000000004,"body":"what's the biggest mindset shift"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2816.759,"endTime":2819.3590000000004,"body":"that they need to make when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2819.3590000000004,"endTime":2822.849,"body":"they're designing for voice or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2819.3590000000004,"endTime":2822.849,"body":"for conversational interactions?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2823.4150000000004,"endTime":2823.715,"body":"You know what?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2823.715,"endTime":2825.9550000000004,"body":"Actually, I just think they're"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2823.715,"endTime":2825.9550000000004,"body":"very-- they're just different"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2825.9550000000004,"endTime":2828.3650000000002,"body":"skill sets, so they definitely"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2825.9550000000004,"endTime":2828.3650000000002,"body":"could be complementary."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2828.3650000000002,"endTime":2831.295,"body":"But, like, we experience"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2828.3650000000002,"endTime":2831.295,"body":"information visually"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2831.295,"endTime":2833.5750000000003,"body":"and linguistically in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2831.295,"endTime":2833.5750000000003,"body":"very different ways."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2833.5750000000003,"endTime":2835.855,"body":"Like, I-- you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2833.5750000000003,"endTime":2835.855,"body":"talk to anyone who does visual"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2835.855,"endTime":2838.3050000000003,"body":"interface design or has a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2835.855,"endTime":2838.3050000000003,"body":"background in that, like, a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2838.3050000000003,"endTime":2842.145,"body":"lot of it is about finding out"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2838.3050000000003,"endTime":2842.145,"body":"ways to represent information"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2842.145,"endTime":2843.485,"body":"hierarchies visually, right?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2843.485,"endTime":2845.655,"body":"You get this sort of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2843.485,"endTime":2845.655,"body":"two-dimensional, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2845.795,"endTime":2849.125,"body":"simulated three-dimensional"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2845.795,"endTime":2849.125,"body":"field of view in which you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2849.125,"endTime":2851.875,"body":"can organize and arrange"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2849.125,"endTime":2851.875,"body":"information hierarchically in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2851.875,"endTime":2855.1850000000004,"body":"ways that will be intuitive"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2851.875,"endTime":2855.1850000000004,"body":"to people or that will, you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2855.1850000000004,"endTime":2857.145,"body":"know, guide them to the path"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2855.1850000000004,"endTime":2857.145,"body":"that you want them to take."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2857.2850000000003,"endTime":2859.945,"body":"Language and spoken language"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2857.2850000000003,"endTime":2859.945,"body":"we experience linearly in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2859.945,"endTime":2862.6150000000002,"body":"time, and then our brains,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2859.945,"endTime":2862.6150000000002,"body":"you know, parse it out into"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2862.6150000000002,"endTime":2863.655,"body":"hierarchical structures."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2863.9150000000004,"endTime":2865.565,"body":"There's a lot of ambiguity"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2863.9150000000004,"endTime":2865.565,"body":"that you can get in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2865.565,"endTime":2866.5750000000003,"body":"speech because of that."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2866.5750000000003,"endTime":2868.5350000000003,"body":"You know, you can say,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2866.5750000000003,"endTime":2868.5350000000003,"body":"\"I saw the man with the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2868.5350000000003,"endTime":2870.635,"body":"red binoculars,\" and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2868.5350000000003,"endTime":2870.635,"body":"that has two meanings."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2870.635,"endTime":2872.905,"body":"It means either the man had"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2870.635,"endTime":2872.905,"body":"the red binoculars or I used"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2872.905,"endTime":2874.215,"body":"the red binoculars to see him."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2874.655,"endTime":2877.675,"body":"And, like, that's a product"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2874.655,"endTime":2877.675,"body":"of the fact that I'm only"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2877.675,"endTime":2880.195,"body":"saying a string of words that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2877.675,"endTime":2880.195,"body":"you experience in real time,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2880.195,"endTime":2882.195,"body":"but there's actually two"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2880.195,"endTime":2882.195,"body":"different kind of structures"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2882.195,"endTime":2882.965,"body":"that could represent."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2882.965,"endTime":2885.4150000000004,"body":"You know, the with the red"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2882.965,"endTime":2885.4150000000004,"body":"binoculars phrase could attach"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2885.4150000000004,"endTime":2887.965,"body":"at the seeing level, or it"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2885.4150000000004,"endTime":2887.965,"body":"could attach at the man level."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2888.0750000000003,"endTime":2890.3450000000003,"body":"And so I think it's, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2888.0750000000003,"endTime":2890.3450000000003,"body":"just a different skill set,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2890.375,"endTime":2893.905,"body":"and what I would say is, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2890.375,"endTime":2893.905,"body":"lean on the people who are"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2893.905,"endTime":2896.4550000000004,"body":"already having these kind of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2893.905,"endTime":2896.4550000000004,"body":"spoken language interactions"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2896.4550000000004,"endTime":2899.675,"body":"to help identify patterns and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2896.4550000000004,"endTime":2899.675,"body":"edge cases and potential points"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2899.675,"endTime":2900.965,"body":"of friction or confusion."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2901.175,"endTime":2903.8650000000002,"body":"You know, use your call"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2901.175,"endTime":2903.8650000000002,"body":"center workers, your people"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2903.8650000000002,"endTime":2906.135,"body":"who write the documentation"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2903.8650000000002,"endTime":2906.135,"body":"for call center workers."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2906.3650000000002,"endTime":2909.155,"body":"I, as a conversation designer,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2906.3650000000002,"endTime":2909.155,"body":"like, there is nothing better"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2909.155,"endTime":2912.465,"body":"for me than spending a day"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2909.155,"endTime":2912.465,"body":"shadowing a contact center"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2912.465,"endTime":2914.6650000000004,"body":"worker and, like, actually"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2912.465,"endTime":2914.6650000000004,"body":"listening to them interact"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2914.6650000000004,"endTime":2917.255,"body":"with people and hearing the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2914.6650000000004,"endTime":2917.255,"body":"actual questions that people"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2917.255,"endTime":2920.135,"body":"have, the actual ways that they"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2917.255,"endTime":2920.135,"body":"phrase these questions, the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2920.2050000000004,"endTime":2922.5750000000003,"body":"actual kinds of information"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2920.2050000000004,"endTime":2922.5750000000003,"body":"they're looking for, not"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2922.5750000000003,"endTime":2924.7450000000003,"body":"just, like, what the business"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2922.5750000000003,"endTime":2924.7450000000003,"body":"assumes they're looking for."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2924.895,"endTime":2927.6850000000004,"body":"And so you have great"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2924.895,"endTime":2927.6850000000004,"body":"resources available."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2927.775,"endTime":2929.8250000000003,"body":"The people who have experience"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2927.775,"endTime":2929.8250000000003,"body":"with this know what it"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":2929.8250000000003,"endTime":2930.875,"body":"needs to be, basically."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2931.155,"endTime":2931.755,"body":"I like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2931.755,"endTime":2932.985,"body":"You know, it is a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2931.755,"endTime":2932.985,"body":"different thing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2932.985,"endTime":2934.0150000000003,"body":"I like the way you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2932.985,"endTime":2934.0150000000003,"body":"explained that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2934.2450000000003,"endTime":2936.395,"body":"We have to make this sort"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2934.2450000000003,"endTime":2936.395,"body":"of-- we have to parse it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2936.395,"endTime":2938.395,"body":"into a visual map in our head"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2936.395,"endTime":2938.395,"body":"because it's like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2938.395,"endTime":2942.425,"body":"we experience it temporally"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2938.395,"endTime":2942.425,"body":"in, like, linearity versus,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2942.4550000000004,"endTime":2943.5150000000003,"body":"you know, like, a website."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2943.5150000000003,"endTime":2945.605,"body":"You think, like, we've already"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2943.5150000000003,"endTime":2945.605,"body":"kind of painted that picture."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2945.635,"endTime":2946.3450000000003,"body":"Here's what you can click on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2946.3450000000003,"endTime":2947.715,"body":"Here's the path I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2946.3450000000003,"endTime":2947.715,"body":"want you to follow."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2947.815,"endTime":2950.9750000000004,"body":"But I actually-- I think like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2947.815,"endTime":2950.9750000000004,"body":"the strongest thing that I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2950.9750000000004,"endTime":2954.0950000000003,"body":"think my listeners can grab"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2950.9750000000004,"endTime":2954.0950000000003,"body":"from that is like, oh, by the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2954.0950000000003,"endTime":2956.145,"body":"way, there's people who are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2954.0950000000003,"endTime":2956.145,"body":"talking to people all the time."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2956.145,"endTime":2957.7050000000004,"body":"Just, like, pay"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2956.145,"endTime":2957.7050000000004,"body":"attention to them."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2958.0950000000003,"endTime":2960.965,"body":"Like, it's like it's not you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2958.0950000000003,"endTime":2960.965,"body":"know, it's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2960.965,"endTime":2962.775,"body":"like I'm thinking of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2960.965,"endTime":2962.775,"body":"all my, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2962.775,"endTime":2963.965,"body":"interaction designer friends."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2963.965,"endTime":2965.695,"body":"Like, do they have to,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2963.965,"endTime":2965.695,"body":"like, back out and become"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2965.695,"endTime":2968.145,"body":"linguists and then go back"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2965.695,"endTime":2968.145,"body":"into, like, you know, design?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2968.355,"endTime":2969.4750000000004,"body":"And maybe the answer is no."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2969.4750000000004,"endTime":2971.215,"body":"It's just kinda like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2969.4750000000004,"endTime":2971.215,"body":"it's a different thing to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2971.215,"endTime":2973.545,"body":"master, but, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2971.215,"endTime":2973.545,"body":"principles are similar,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2973.545,"endTime":2976.335,"body":"and the data is available."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2976.505,"endTime":2978.835,"body":"Or, you know, you can shadow,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2976.505,"endTime":2978.835,"body":"you can listen, you can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2978.835,"endTime":2980.9150000000004,"body":"have more conversations,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2978.835,"endTime":2980.9150000000004,"body":"and you can pick it apart."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2981.0950000000003,"endTime":2983.3250000000003,"body":"And, you know, to your point"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2981.0950000000003,"endTime":2983.3250000000003,"body":"earlier, it's not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2983.3250000000003,"endTime":2985.815,"body":"just adding a bunch more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2983.3250000000003,"endTime":2985.815,"body":"words and, you know, all the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2985.815,"endTime":2988.753,"body":"like, making it, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2985.815,"endTime":2988.753,"body":"a very clunky experience."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2988.753,"endTime":2991.6730000000002,"body":"Sometimes language is messy"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2988.753,"endTime":2991.6730000000002,"body":"and we interrupt one another."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2992.0530000000003,"endTime":2994.203,"body":"We, you know, like there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2992.0530000000003,"endTime":2994.203,"body":"all these things that happen."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2994.203,"endTime":2996.603,"body":"There's like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2994.203,"endTime":2996.603,"body":"multiple meanings to things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2996.773,"endTime":2998.023,"body":"There's like the speed of it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2998.273,"endTime":3000.393,"body":"And I love that it kind of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2998.273,"endTime":3000.393,"body":"comes back down to like this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3000.393,"endTime":3003.563,"body":"like social presence that is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3000.393,"endTime":3003.563,"body":"needed to, you know, connect"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3003.563,"endTime":3006.5930000000003,"body":"the parties that are dialoguing,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3003.563,"endTime":3006.5930000000003,"body":"build trust, and actually,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3006.5930000000003,"endTime":3007.6130000000003,"body":"you know, achieve a goal."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3007.9170000000004,"endTime":3009.757,"body":"And I would"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3007.9170000000004,"endTime":3009.757,"body":"imagine that, and I have no"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3009.757,"endTime":3011.867,"body":"evidence for this, but I would"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3009.757,"endTime":3011.867,"body":"imagine that the sort of soft"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3011.867,"endTime":3015.837,"body":"skills, or I guess over easy"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3011.867,"endTime":3015.837,"body":"skills that make someone a good"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3016.027,"endTime":3019.0570000000002,"body":"visual designer are transferable"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3016.027,"endTime":3019.0570000000002,"body":"in the sense that you're asking"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3019.0570000000002,"endTime":3023.0570000000002,"body":"yourself to sort of introspect"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3019.0570000000002,"endTime":3023.0570000000002,"body":"and look inward about what an"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3023.0570000000002,"endTime":3026.0170000000003,"body":"experience makes you feel, what"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3023.0570000000002,"endTime":3026.0170000000003,"body":"the points of frustration are,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3026.067,"endTime":3028.777,"body":"and then actually, like, break"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3026.067,"endTime":3028.777,"body":"that down to first principles"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3028.837,"endTime":3030.337,"body":"and, like, say, \"Okay, why?\""},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3030.337,"endTime":3032.617,"body":"And you know, this is why I"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3030.337,"endTime":3032.617,"body":"say that linguists are good"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3032.617,"endTime":3035.1470000000004,"body":"at this job in the first"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3032.617,"endTime":3035.1470000000004,"body":"place, which is that, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3035.297,"endTime":3037.4770000000003,"body":"a lot of what linguists,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3035.297,"endTime":3037.4770000000003,"body":"particularly theoretical"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3037.4770000000003,"endTime":3041.3570000000004,"body":"linguists do, is sort of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3037.4770000000003,"endTime":3041.3570000000004,"body":"think about their own language"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3041.3570000000004,"endTime":3045.137,"body":"faculty and say, \"Okay, that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3041.3570000000004,"endTime":3045.137,"body":"sentence sounded grammatical"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3045.137,"endTime":3046.447,"body":"to me, the other one didn't.\""},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3046.777,"endTime":3049.367,"body":"That's sort of a kind"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3046.777,"endTime":3049.367,"body":"of subjective experience"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3049.367,"endTime":3051.5170000000003,"body":"where one thing feels"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3049.367,"endTime":3051.5170000000003,"body":"awkward, one doesn't."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3051.7870000000003,"endTime":3054.6070000000004,"body":"Why actually is that, and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3051.7870000000003,"endTime":3054.6070000000004,"body":"can I write those rules in"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3054.6070000000004,"endTime":3056.9570000000003,"body":"such a way that in theory a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3054.6070000000004,"endTime":3056.9570000000003,"body":"computer could replicate them?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3056.9570000000003,"endTime":3059.2470000000003,"body":"And that's sort of like what"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3056.9570000000003,"endTime":3059.2470000000003,"body":"you're doing as a designer"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3059.2470000000003,"endTime":3061.277,"body":"in general, and I think,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3059.2470000000003,"endTime":3061.277,"body":"like, that's what makes"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3061.277,"endTime":3062.077,"body":"linguists good at this."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3062.077,"endTime":3063.967,"body":"And so I could imagine"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3062.077,"endTime":3063.967,"body":"that someone even without a"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3063.967,"endTime":3065.8570000000004,"body":"linguistics degree, in fact,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3063.967,"endTime":3065.8570000000004,"body":"I'm sure that even someone"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3065.8570000000004,"endTime":3068.907,"body":"without a linguistics degree"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3065.8570000000004,"endTime":3068.907,"body":"could apply those same kind of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3068.907,"endTime":3072.657,"body":"sensitivities and intuition and"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3068.907,"endTime":3072.657,"body":"analytical reasoning to creating"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3072.817,"endTime":3074.117,"body":"conversational interfaces."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3074.447,"endTime":3075.1070000000004,"body":"I really like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3075.297,"endTime":3077.487,"body":"I wondered if maybe we could"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3075.297,"endTime":3077.487,"body":"round out just by, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3077.487,"endTime":3078.8770000000004,"body":"talking a bit about the future."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3079.027,"endTime":3081.947,"body":"You know, speaking of things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3079.027,"endTime":3081.947,"body":"where neither you and I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3081.947,"endTime":3084.9170000000004,"body":"have any, like, necessarily"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3081.947,"endTime":3084.9170000000004,"body":"research or data or crystal"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3084.9170000000004,"endTime":3086.677,"body":"ball to see into the future."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3086.797,"endTime":3089.587,"body":"But I've been thinking a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3086.797,"endTime":3089.587,"body":"lot about AI and how it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3089.587,"endTime":3091.1870000000004,"body":"manifesting as hardware."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3091.317,"endTime":3094.317,"body":"You know, you have devices"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3091.317,"endTime":3094.317,"body":"like Rabbit, and soon there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3094.317,"endTime":3097.487,"body":"that OpenAI and Jony Ive"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3094.317,"endTime":3097.487,"body":"hardware collaboration."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3097.597,"endTime":3099.177,"body":"And I'm thinking about this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3097.597,"endTime":3099.177,"body":"thing, you know, we've been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3099.177,"endTime":3101.757,"body":"talking about, yeah, people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3099.177,"endTime":3101.757,"body":"still wanna pick up the phone"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3101.757,"endTime":3104.697,"body":"and have, you know, the social"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3101.757,"endTime":3104.697,"body":"presence and their experience."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3104.8570000000004,"endTime":3107.887,"body":"But at a certain point, we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3104.8570000000004,"endTime":3107.887,"body":"gonna have our own sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3107.887,"endTime":3112.197,"body":"personal hardware agents"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3107.887,"endTime":3112.197,"body":"talking to the agents of that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3112.197,"endTime":3114.367,"body":"business or the restaurant or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3112.197,"endTime":3114.367,"body":"the health clinic or you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3114.367,"endTime":3115.3570000000004,"body":"the customer support center."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3115.6670000000004,"endTime":3118.867,"body":"When that happens, will the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3115.6670000000004,"endTime":3118.867,"body":"agent-to-agent experience"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3118.947,"endTime":3122.577,"body":"continue this, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3118.947,"endTime":3122.577,"body":"put charade, the charade of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3122.577,"endTime":3125.237,"body":"human politeness and, like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3122.577,"endTime":3125.237,"body":"this professional decorum"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3125.237,"endTime":3126.8570000000004,"body":"and these things that we've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3125.237,"endTime":3126.8570000000004,"body":"been talking about, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3127.0170000000003,"endTime":3128.407,"body":"The back channels, the pauses."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3128.5370000000003,"endTime":3130.697,"body":"Will that still be a thing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3128.5370000000003,"endTime":3130.697,"body":"agent-to-agent, or will"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3130.697,"endTime":3132.9570000000003,"body":"the language of agents"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3130.697,"endTime":3132.9570000000003,"body":"be, you know, almost"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3133.2670000000003,"endTime":3135.007,"body":"unrecognizable to us humans?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3135.297,"endTime":3137.297,"body":"So I"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3135.297,"endTime":3137.297,"body":"have no idea about this."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3137.297,"endTime":3141.177,"body":"And, like, I think that if you"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3137.297,"endTime":3141.177,"body":"plugged, you know, Claude Opus"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3141.177,"endTime":3144.847,"body":"4.6 into, like, any of these"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3141.177,"endTime":3144.847,"body":"interactions, it would behave"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3145.087,"endTime":3147.797,"body":"the way that it was trained"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3145.087,"endTime":3147.797,"body":"to, which is as though it were"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3147.797,"endTime":3148.697,"body":"interacting with a person."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3148.697,"endTime":3150.6670000000004,"body":"So, like, I think that, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3148.697,"endTime":3150.6670000000004,"body":"fundamentally we're still"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3150.6670000000004,"endTime":3154.347,"body":"in a place where these, at"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3150.6670000000004,"endTime":3154.347,"body":"least the consumer models are"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3154.577,"endTime":3157.3570000000004,"body":"mainly targeted at interacting"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3154.577,"endTime":3157.3570000000004,"body":"with people, and so they will"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3157.3570000000004,"endTime":3159.867,"body":"just default, default back"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3157.3570000000004,"endTime":3159.867,"body":"to interacting in that way."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3159.9570000000003,"endTime":3162.5570000000002,"body":"I think the question of whether"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3159.9570000000003,"endTime":3162.5570000000002,"body":"we start training models"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3162.5570000000002,"endTime":3166.7070000000003,"body":"that are more specifically"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3162.5570000000002,"endTime":3166.7070000000003,"body":"engineered toward, like, more"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3166.7070000000003,"endTime":3169.677,"body":"efficient communication with"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3166.7070000000003,"endTime":3169.677,"body":"other models, like, I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3169.677,"endTime":3171.4170000000004,"body":"that's gonna be something"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3169.677,"endTime":3171.4170000000004,"body":"that will start happening,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3171.4170000000004,"endTime":3174.1870000000004,"body":"particularly as, like, these,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3171.4170000000004,"endTime":3174.1870000000004,"body":"you know, agent harnessing"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3174.1870000000004,"endTime":3177.547,"body":"frameworks like OpenClaw and,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3174.1870000000004,"endTime":3177.547,"body":"like, or agent orchestration"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3177.547,"endTime":3181.0730000000003,"body":"start becoming more and more"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3177.547,"endTime":3181.0730000000003,"body":"popular where you have- Agents"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3181.0730000000003,"endTime":3183.443,"body":"spinning up sub-agents and,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3181.0730000000003,"endTime":3183.443,"body":"you know, reporting back"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3183.443,"endTime":3186.2430000000004,"body":"to the original agent and,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3183.443,"endTime":3186.2430000000004,"body":"like, there's gotta be a more"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3186.2430000000004,"endTime":3188.4230000000002,"body":"efficient way that they could be"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3186.2430000000004,"endTime":3188.4230000000002,"body":"communicating with each other."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3188.4230000000002,"endTime":3189.8830000000003,"body":"Like, maybe they're"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3188.4230000000002,"endTime":3189.8830000000003,"body":"just gonna be like beep"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3189.8830000000003,"endTime":3190.913,"body":"boop, beep boop- Right."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3190.913,"endTime":3194.1330000000003,"body":"... and like, you know, a terabyte"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3190.913,"endTime":3194.1330000000003,"body":"of information that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3194.1330000000003,"endTime":3197.0930000000003,"body":"it would take a million years"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3194.1330000000003,"endTime":3197.0930000000003,"body":"to convey in human speech."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3197.3630000000003,"endTime":3199.643,"body":"I would think that, like,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3197.3630000000003,"endTime":3199.643,"body":"assuming that those agent"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3199.643,"endTime":3202.523,"body":"orchestration, multi-agent bot"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3199.643,"endTime":3202.523,"body":"harnessing kind of frameworks"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3202.523,"endTime":3204.8830000000003,"body":"continue to take off, that"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3202.523,"endTime":3204.8830000000003,"body":"we'll start getting models"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3204.8830000000003,"endTime":3207.123,"body":"that are, like, specifically"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3204.8830000000003,"endTime":3207.123,"body":"trained to communicate with"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3207.123,"endTime":3208.4230000000002,"body":"other bots, but I have no idea."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3209.0930000000003,"endTime":3211.933,"body":"Honestly, good answer"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3209.0930000000003,"endTime":3211.933,"body":"though because I do agree."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3211.933,"endTime":3214.1130000000003,"body":"I think like, you know, when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3211.933,"endTime":3214.1130000000003,"body":"you think about it, language"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3214.2630000000004,"endTime":3217.3230000000003,"body":"m- between humans and now I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3214.2630000000004,"endTime":3217.3230000000003,"body":"guess with AI, it's like there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3217.3230000000003,"endTime":3219.943,"body":"almost something wonderfully"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3217.3230000000003,"endTime":3219.943,"body":"inefficient about it, you know?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3219.9730000000004,"endTime":3221.023,"body":"Like it's not perfect."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3221.023,"endTime":3221.563,"body":"It's imperfect."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3221.563,"endTime":3222.753,"body":"That's kind of what's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3221.563,"endTime":3222.753,"body":"great about it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3222.753,"endTime":3223.773,"body":"That's how we evolve."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3223.773,"endTime":3225.913,"body":"That's what we want"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3223.773,"endTime":3225.913,"body":"from the interaction."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3226.2430000000004,"endTime":3227.483,"body":"Do machines want that?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3227.483,"endTime":3228.5730000000003,"body":"Maybe not, you know."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3228.833,"endTime":3231.3230000000003,"body":"And fundamentally, it's how we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3228.833,"endTime":3231.3230000000003,"body":"program them, at least right for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3231.3230000000003,"endTime":3232.623,"body":"now, it's how we program them."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3232.8630000000003,"endTime":3235.3230000000003,"body":"But I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3232.8630000000003,"endTime":3235.3230000000003,"body":"really interesting idea,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3235.443,"endTime":3237.943,"body":"just this like, is it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3235.443,"endTime":3237.943,"body":"because human, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3238.1530000000002,"endTime":3239.833,"body":"Like, not because language"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3238.1530000000002,"endTime":3239.833,"body":"is great, but because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3239.833,"endTime":3241.983,"body":"that's just, like, what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3239.833,"endTime":3241.983,"body":"we're good at as humans."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3242.083,"endTime":3244.5330000000004,"body":"Anyways, thank you for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3242.083,"endTime":3244.5330000000004,"body":"entertaining that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3244.5330000000004,"endTime":3248.143,"body":"massive question and arguably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3244.5330000000004,"endTime":3248.143,"body":"a sci-fi tangent at the end."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3248.2230000000004,"endTime":3250.453,"body":"But yeah, I just wanna say,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3248.2230000000004,"endTime":3250.453,"body":"like, I really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3250.453,"endTime":3251.083,"body":"this conversation."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3251.123,"endTime":3252.0130000000004,"body":"I had a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3252.193,"endTime":3253.703,"body":"I love nerding out on this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3253.873,"endTime":3255.9730000000004,"body":"You obviously are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3253.873,"endTime":3255.9730000000004,"body":"really deep into this."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3256.253,"endTime":3258.413,"body":"Just for fun, do you have a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3256.253,"endTime":3258.413,"body":"question that you wanna ask me?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3258.683,"endTime":3261.003,"body":"Well, I'm--"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3258.683,"endTime":3261.003,"body":"Like, you s- you said this thing"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3261.003,"endTime":3263.193,"body":"about, you know, hardware AI."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3263.2430000000004,"endTime":3265.6730000000002,"body":"Like, I'm really curious if"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3263.2430000000004,"endTime":3265.6730000000002,"body":"you think that's going anywhere"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3265.6730000000002,"endTime":3268.563,"body":"because my feeling is like"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3265.6730000000002,"endTime":3268.563,"body":"absolutely, like people will"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3268.563,"endTime":3271.463,"body":"start to ha- interact with"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3268.563,"endTime":3271.463,"body":"AI models on the go and more."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3271.5130000000004,"endTime":3273.5530000000003,"body":"But like why would I need"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3271.5130000000004,"endTime":3273.5530000000003,"body":"something other than my phone,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3273.5530000000003,"endTime":3274.943,"body":"like I guess is my question."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3274.943,"endTime":3276.3030000000003,"body":"Like, I have my phone already."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3276.3630000000003,"endTime":3278.413,"body":"Like, it's hard for me"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3276.3630000000003,"endTime":3278.413,"body":"to imagine any of these"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3278.413,"endTime":3280.1530000000002,"body":"hardware things taking"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3278.413,"endTime":3280.1530000000002,"body":"off, but I'm prepared to be"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3280.1530000000002,"endTime":3281.203,"body":"totally wrong about that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3281.3430000000003,"endTime":3282.313,"body":"No, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3281.3430000000003,"endTime":3282.313,"body":"think you're right."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3282.463,"endTime":3283.8630000000003,"body":"There's two things for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3282.463,"endTime":3283.8630000000003,"body":"me is like just the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3283.8630000000003,"endTime":3285.163,"body":"economy in general, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3285.163,"endTime":3288.443,"body":"Like consumerism meets"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3285.163,"endTime":3288.443,"body":"technology, meets, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3288.443,"endTime":3290.703,"body":"brands trying to carve out their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3288.443,"endTime":3290.703,"body":"space in the market, so I could"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3290.703,"endTime":3292.2230000000004,"body":"see that just differentiating."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3292.453,"endTime":3294.953,"body":"The actual practical use case,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3292.453,"endTime":3294.953,"body":"I'm not sure, but I know that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3294.953,"endTime":3297.703,"body":"like we see this with tools"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3294.953,"endTime":3297.703,"body":"already, especially in my space,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3297.703,"endTime":3298.5130000000004,"body":"project management, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3298.5130000000004,"endTime":3300.3430000000003,"body":"Where it's like as soon as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3298.5130000000004,"endTime":3300.3430000000003,"body":"a shiny new tool comes out,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3300.3430000000003,"endTime":3301.5330000000004,"body":"everyone like jumps on it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3301.643,"endTime":3304.023,"body":"There's this thing where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3301.643,"endTime":3304.023,"body":"we just want tools that we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3304.023,"endTime":3307.5130000000004,"body":"don't need because we think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3304.023,"endTime":3307.5130000000004,"body":"it promises something that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3307.5130000000004,"endTime":3308.893,"body":"different, but usually it's not."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3309.063,"endTime":3311.123,"body":"So I think it will land"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3309.063,"endTime":3311.123,"body":"somewhere in between."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3311.123,"endTime":3313.463,"body":"I think there might be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3311.123,"endTime":3313.463,"body":"more devices than the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3313.503,"endTime":3315.9230000000002,"body":"sort of usual suspects"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3313.503,"endTime":3315.9230000000002,"body":"in the smartphone world."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3316.123,"endTime":3319.253,"body":"But yeah, I don't see it"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3316.123,"endTime":3319.253,"body":"necessarily quickly becoming"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3319.253,"endTime":3322.103,"body":"like, you know, oh, am I gonna"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3319.253,"endTime":3322.103,"body":"have an extra pager on my belt?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3322.143,"endTime":3324.5240000000003,"body":"I don't know if that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3322.143,"endTime":3324.5240000000003,"body":"gonna be like good."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3324.664,"endTime":3326.414,"body":"But then at some point,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3324.664,"endTime":3326.414,"body":"there's like the robotics"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3326.414,"endTime":3327.1530000000002,"body":"angle too, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3327.1530000000002,"endTime":3329.0930000000003,"body":"Where it's like, okay,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3327.1530000000002,"endTime":3329.0930000000003,"body":"well maybe it's not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3329.0930000000003,"endTime":3329.9440000000004,"body":"a pager on your belt."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3330.0730000000003,"endTime":3332.7230000000004,"body":"Maybe it's just like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3330.0730000000003,"endTime":3332.7230000000004,"body":"your cyborg walking next to you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3332.7230000000004,"endTime":3334.8630000000003,"body":"And then I'm like, \"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3332.7230000000004,"endTime":3334.8630000000003,"body":"now I'm done thinking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3334.8630000000003,"endTime":3337.5930000000003,"body":"it for now,\" because I'm"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3334.8630000000003,"endTime":3337.5930000000003,"body":"like that's like too far."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3337.7230000000004,"endTime":3339.703,"body":"But yeah, I do think"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3337.7230000000004,"endTime":3339.703,"body":"that there's a level of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3339.893,"endTime":3342.213,"body":"gimmickiness, but also"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3339.893,"endTime":3342.213,"body":"like do people want this?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3342.213,"endTime":3342.733,"body":"Let's see."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3343.041,"endTime":3345.121,"body":"But I don't know that it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3343.041,"endTime":3345.121,"body":"gonna be that different."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3345.391,"endTime":3347.0710000000004,"body":"Well, what an"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3345.391,"endTime":3347.0710000000004,"body":"interesting, I mean, speaking of"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3347.0710000000004,"endTime":3349.681,"body":"like cognitive biases that seem"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3347.0710000000004,"endTime":3349.681,"body":"almost anachronistic, like it"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3349.681,"endTime":3352.491,"body":"feels almost like caveman brain"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3349.681,"endTime":3352.491,"body":"to like want like a dedicated"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3352.491,"endTime":3355.5710000000004,"body":"tool for like one specific"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3352.491,"endTime":3355.5710000000004,"body":"thing- ... as opposed to adding"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3355.5710000000004,"endTime":3358.0110000000004,"body":"like additional software to"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3355.5710000000004,"endTime":3358.0110000000004,"body":"your phone just because it's not"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3358.0110000000004,"endTime":3359.471,"body":"like another thing you can hold."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3359.621,"endTime":3359.811,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3359.811,"endTime":3361.701,"body":"And like, it feels"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3359.811,"endTime":3361.701,"body":"like something ancient"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3361.701,"endTime":3362.5910000000003,"body":"is going on there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3362.6710000000003,"endTime":3363.911,"body":"Remember, I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3362.6710000000003,"endTime":3363.911,"body":"remember like, like gosh,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3363.911,"endTime":3365.0110000000004,"body":"like cargo pants, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3365.0110000000004,"endTime":3367.251,"body":"Which was like, oh, because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3365.0110000000004,"endTime":3367.251,"body":"now I can carry all my stuff."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3367.7810000000004,"endTime":3369.3610000000003,"body":"And it's like, no,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3367.7810000000004,"endTime":3369.3610000000003,"body":"we have less stuff."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3370.3410000000003,"endTime":3370.541,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3371.2610000000004,"endTime":3371.5310000000004,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3371.561,"endTime":3373.391,"body":"Oliver, thanks so much for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3371.561,"endTime":3373.391,"body":"spending the time with me today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3373.391,"endTime":3374.581,"body":"This has been like a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3374.771,"endTime":3377.001,"body":"Just for folks listening, where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3374.771,"endTime":3377.001,"body":"can people learn more about you?"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3377.221,"endTime":3379.911,"body":"So you can"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3377.221,"endTime":3379.911,"body":"follow me on LinkedIn @oliverhs."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3380.831,"endTime":3382.0510000000004,"body":"Oliver Shoulson is my name."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3382.101,"endTime":3384.751,"body":"I also have a website,"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3382.101,"endTime":3384.751,"body":"olivershoulson.com, where"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3384.751,"endTime":3386.251,"body":"I occasionally post stuff."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3386.431,"endTime":3388.621,"body":"I need to update that more"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3386.431,"endTime":3388.621,"body":"frequently, but other than"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3388.621,"endTime":3390.3410000000003,"body":"that, you know, check out"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3388.621,"endTime":3390.3410000000003,"body":"poly.ai, check out the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3390.3410000000003,"endTime":3391.0710000000004,"body":"work we're doing there."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3391.0710000000004,"endTime":3393.411,"body":"We're always publishing lots"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3391.0710000000004,"endTime":3393.411,"body":"of interesting case studies."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3393.6510000000003,"endTime":3396.391,"body":"You can actually hear Selma, the"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3393.6510000000003,"endTime":3396.391,"body":"Fogarty Challenge- Okay ... on"},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3396.431,"endTime":3397.851,"body":"our latest case study there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3398.0510000000004,"endTime":3398.351,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3398.3810000000003,"endTime":3400.001,"body":"I will also add those"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3398.3810000000003,"endTime":3400.001,"body":"links to the show notes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3400.001,"endTime":3401.9410000000003,"body":"for folks listening so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3400.001,"endTime":3401.9410000000003,"body":"they're easy to click on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3402.1510000000003,"endTime":3403.9010000000003,"body":"And yeah, Oliver,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3402.1510000000003,"endTime":3403.9010000000003,"body":"thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Oliver Shoulson","startTime":3404.1510000000003,"endTime":3404.9410000000003,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3405.451,"endTime":3406.641,"body":"All right folks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3405.451,"endTime":3406.641,"body":"that's it for today's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3406.641,"endTime":3408.931,"body":"episode of the Digital"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3406.641,"endTime":3408.931,"body":"Project Manager Podcast."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3409.101,"endTime":3410.791,"body":"If you enjoyed this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3409.101,"endTime":3410.791,"body":"conversation, make sure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3410.791,"endTime":3412.141,"body":"to subscribe wherever"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3410.791,"endTime":3412.141,"body":"you're listening."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3412.351,"endTime":3414.271,"body":"And if you want even more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3412.351,"endTime":3414.271,"body":"tactical insights, case"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3414.271,"endTime":3416.721,"body":"studies, and playbooks, create"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3414.271,"endTime":3416.721,"body":"a free account with us at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3416.721,"endTime":3419.0310000000004,"body":"thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3419.0310000000004,"endTime":3421.549,"body":"Until next time,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3419.0310000000004,"endTime":3421.549,"body":"thanks for listening."}]}