{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":0.09,"endTime":2.091,"body":"Technical program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":0.09,"endTime":2.091,"body":"managers aren't typically"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2.091,"endTime":5.086,"body":"expected to write code, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2.091,"endTime":5.086,"body":"these days, neither are software"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":5.086,"endTime":6.691,"body":"engineers, not by hand anyway."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":6.753,"endTime":9.626,"body":"So the question isn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":6.753,"endTime":9.626,"body":"necessarily whether TPMs"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":9.641,"endTime":10.767,"body":"should be able to code."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":10.809,"endTime":13.668,"body":"What depth"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":10.809,"endTime":13.668,"body":"of understanding is needed"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":13.668,"endTime":16.788,"body":"for technical program managers"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":13.668,"endTime":16.788,"body":"to shift where they add value"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":17.003,"endTime":19.329,"body":"in a world where the teams"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":17.003,"endTime":19.329,"body":"around them are using AI"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":19.351,"endTime":22.398,"body":"to move five, 10, sometimes"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":19.351,"endTime":22.398,"body":"50 times faster than they"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":22.4,"endTime":23.726,"body":"did just a few years ago?"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":23.893,"endTime":26.419,"body":"To explore how the role of a"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":23.893,"endTime":26.419,"body":"technical program manager is"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":26.42,"endTime":28.917,"body":"evolving in today's software"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":26.42,"endTime":28.917,"body":"industry, I've brought in a"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":28.938,"endTime":32.105,"body":"VP of Delivery and Engineering"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":28.938,"endTime":32.105,"body":"Ops who has led teams of"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":32.108,"endTime":35.565,"body":"TPMs at organizations like"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":32.108,"endTime":35.565,"body":"Dell and Google, as well as"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":35.591,"endTime":38.211,"body":"other fast-paced, high-growth"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":35.591,"endTime":38.211,"body":"software environments."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":38.37,"endTime":40.631,"body":"Together, we're going to be"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":38.37,"endTime":40.631,"body":"exploring everything from"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":40.631,"endTime":43.76,"body":"what skills are being demanded"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":40.631,"endTime":43.76,"body":"of TPMs today to how heads"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":43.76,"endTime":46.373,"body":"of delivery can champion"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":43.76,"endTime":46.373,"body":"their team's value when there"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":46.373,"endTime":47.607,"body":"are changes in leadership."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":47.739,"endTime":50.319,"body":"We'll also be talking about"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":47.739,"endTime":50.319,"body":"how hiring managers can assess"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":50.336,"endTime":52.774,"body":"TPM candidates during the"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":50.336,"endTime":52.774,"body":"recruitment process and what the"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":52.783,"endTime":56.193,"body":"impact would be if the TPM role"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":52.783,"endTime":56.193,"body":"were to go the way of the dodo."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":56.308,"endTime":57.301,"body":"Hope you enjoy the episode."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":58.013,"endTime":60.638,"body":"Welcome to the Digital Project"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":58.013,"endTime":60.638,"body":"Manager Podcast—the show that"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":60.638,"endTime":63.033,"body":"helps delivery leaders work"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":60.638,"endTime":63.033,"body":"smarter, deliver smoother,"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":63.175,"endTime":65.579,"body":"and lead their teams with"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":63.175,"endTime":65.579,"body":"confidence in the age of AI."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":65.687,"endTime":67.842,"body":"I'm Galen, and every week"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":65.687,"endTime":67.842,"body":"we dive into real-world"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":67.842,"endTime":70.795,"body":"strategies, emerging trends,"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":67.842,"endTime":70.795,"body":"proven frameworks, and the"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":70.795,"endTime":72.959,"body":"occasional war story from"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":70.795,"endTime":72.959,"body":"the project front lines."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":73.051,"endTime":74.765,"body":"Whether you're steering"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":73.051,"endTime":74.765,"body":"massive transformation"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":74.767,"endTime":77.408,"body":"projects, wrangling AI"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":74.767,"endTime":77.408,"body":"workflows, or just trying to"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":77.41,"endTime":79.61,"body":"keep the chaos under control,"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":77.41,"endTime":79.61,"body":"you're in the right place."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":79.877,"endTime":81.31,"body":"And if you've been liking"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":79.877,"endTime":81.31,"body":"what you've been hearing from"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":81.31,"endTime":83.293,"body":"us lately, please consider"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":81.31,"endTime":83.293,"body":"following us wherever"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":83.294,"endTime":85.585,"body":"you're finding us and maybe"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":83.294,"endTime":85.585,"body":"even leaving us a review."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":85.943,"endTime":86.202,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":86.61,"endTime":87.187,"body":"Let's get into it."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":87.292,"endTime":90.526,"body":"With me today is Satish Menon,"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":87.292,"endTime":90.526,"body":"a technical program management"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":90.541,"endTime":93.047,"body":"and engineering operations"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":90.541,"endTime":93.047,"body":"leader who has headed up"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":93.048,"endTime":95.937,"body":"delivery at tech giants like"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":93.048,"endTime":95.937,"body":"Google and Dell, as well as"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":95.937,"endTime":98.925,"body":"at software companies like"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":95.937,"endTime":98.925,"body":"Tenable, Cohesity, and Seismic."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":99.096,"endTime":102.062,"body":"The programs under Satish's"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":99.096,"endTime":102.062,"body":"remit have ranged from hardware"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":102.062,"endTime":104.792,"body":"and software launches to"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":102.062,"endTime":104.792,"body":"cloud infrastructure and data"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":104.792,"endTime":107.99,"body":"center optimization products,"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":104.792,"endTime":107.99,"body":"relying on Satish's ability"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":107.99,"endTime":111.104,"body":"to navigate C-suite decisions,"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":107.99,"endTime":111.104,"body":"provide organizational"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":111.104,"endTime":113.84,"body":"leadership, develop and"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":111.104,"endTime":113.84,"body":"implement operational strategy,"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":113.846,"endTime":117.05,"body":"transform processes, and"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":113.846,"endTime":117.05,"body":"advise on product development."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":117.245,"endTime":119.949,"body":"Today, Satish has been helping"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":117.245,"endTime":119.949,"body":"teams of technical program"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":119.949,"endTime":123.096,"body":"managers navigate the world of"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":119.949,"endTime":123.096,"body":"AI-enhanced software engineering"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":123.1,"endTime":125.592,"body":"and program management"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":123.1,"endTime":125.592,"body":"while also championing the"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":125.592,"endTime":128.663,"body":"value that the technical"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":125.592,"endTime":128.663,"body":"program manager role plays"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":128.678,"endTime":130.198,"body":"in tech-led organizations."},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":130.412,"endTime":132.189,"body":"Satish, thanks so much"},{"speaker":"The question is","startTime":130.412,"endTime":132.189,"body":"for joining me today."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":132.298,"endTime":133.023,"body":"Hey, Galen."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":133.055,"endTime":134.254,"body":"Thanks for the opportunity."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":134.254,"endTime":135.238,"body":"I'm excited to be here."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":135.367,"endTime":136.692,"body":"Here's the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":135.367,"endTime":136.692,"body":"little roadmap that I've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":136.692,"endTime":137.623,"body":"set up for us today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":137.839,"endTime":140.186,"body":"First, I just wanted to hit you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":137.839,"endTime":140.186,"body":"with a bit of a controversial"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":140.186,"endTime":142.852,"body":"question that my listeners"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":140.186,"endTime":142.852,"body":"would love to hear your take on."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":142.92,"endTime":145.441,"body":"But then I'd like to use that as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":142.92,"endTime":145.441,"body":"a lens to look at three things."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":145.59,"endTime":147.613,"body":"First, I wanted to look"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":145.59,"endTime":147.613,"body":"at how the role of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":147.614,"endTime":150.28,"body":"technical program manager is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":147.614,"endTime":150.28,"body":"being disrupted, especially"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":150.28,"endTime":151.319,"body":"in the software space."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":151.411,"endTime":153.297,"body":"I thought we could talk"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":151.411,"endTime":153.297,"body":"about how department"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":153.303,"endTime":155.954,"body":"heads and team leads can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":153.303,"endTime":155.954,"body":"defend the value of their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":155.955,"endTime":157.23,"body":"technical program managers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":157.574,"endTime":159.302,"body":"And also, I thought we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":157.574,"endTime":159.302,"body":"could just dive into what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":159.302,"endTime":162.228,"body":"the implications are of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":159.302,"endTime":162.228,"body":"role hybridization between"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":162.431,"endTime":165.681,"body":"software team managers and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":162.431,"endTime":165.681,"body":"technical program managers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":165.726,"endTime":166.451,"body":"How does that sound to you?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":166.571,"endTime":167.241,"body":"Wonderful."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":167.28,"endTime":168.159,"body":"Looking forward to it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":168.228,"endTime":168.557,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":168.557,"endTime":169.42,"body":"Let's dive in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":169.474,"endTime":171.934,"body":"Here's my spicy"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":169.474,"endTime":171.934,"body":"question to kick us off."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":172.031,"endTime":174.7,"body":"Technical program managers"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":172.031,"endTime":174.7,"body":"say that they don't need to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":174.7,"endTime":176.123,"body":"able to code to deliver value."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":176.388,"endTime":179.518,"body":"Meanwhile, many of the tech"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":176.388,"endTime":179.518,"body":"execs seem to disagree."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":179.665,"endTime":182.083,"body":"They say AI means that a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":179.665,"endTime":182.083,"body":"software engineering team"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":182.092,"endTime":184.176,"body":"manager and a technical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":182.092,"endTime":184.176,"body":"program manager are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":184.177,"endTime":185.374,"body":"now one and the same."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":185.636,"endTime":187.488,"body":"So my question is, who's right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":187.616,"endTime":191.155,"body":"Has AI created the circumstances"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":187.616,"endTime":191.155,"body":"that make it reasonable"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":191.158,"endTime":193.886,"body":"for organizations to expect"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":191.158,"endTime":193.886,"body":"software team managers to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":193.887,"endTime":196.449,"body":"also be technical program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":193.887,"endTime":196.449,"body":"managers and vice versa?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":196.578,"endTime":199.448,"body":"You can agree"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":196.578,"endTime":199.448,"body":"with me that the software"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":199.467,"endTime":203.032,"body":"engineer's role has gone"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":199.467,"endTime":203.032,"body":"through a lot of transformation"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":203.034,"endTime":204.107,"body":"in the recent times, right?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":204.13,"endTime":207.723,"body":"They have gone from writing"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":204.13,"endTime":207.723,"body":"the code themselves, which"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":207.802,"endTime":212.26,"body":"was the bottleneck before, to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":207.802,"endTime":212.26,"body":"right now using a lot of vibe"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":212.27,"endTime":216.623,"body":"coding and using AI tools to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":212.27,"endTime":216.623,"body":"generate code at 10x, even 100x"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":216.623,"endTime":220.607,"body":"the speed And then the problem"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":216.623,"endTime":220.607,"body":"has now shifted to the review"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":220.607,"endTime":223.64,"body":"cycle, like the PR review"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":220.607,"endTime":223.64,"body":"cycle, the PR size has gone up."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":223.641,"endTime":226.862,"body":"And so in, in the human"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":223.641,"endTime":226.862,"body":"oversight part of what AI"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":226.871,"endTime":229.825,"body":"generates in software, that's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":226.871,"endTime":229.825,"body":"where the burden has shifted."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":229.836,"endTime":233.437,"body":"So sim- similar to the change"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":229.836,"endTime":233.437,"body":"that we see in the software"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":233.456,"endTime":236.846,"body":"engineering workflow and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":233.456,"endTime":236.846,"body":"speed and on what software"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":236.85,"endTime":240.792,"body":"engineers do, there has"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":236.85,"endTime":240.792,"body":"to be a similar adaptation"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":240.793,"endTime":242.213,"body":"on the TPM side as well."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":242.446,"endTime":245.437,"body":"And so, for example, three"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":242.446,"endTime":245.437,"body":"to five years ago, there used"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":245.448,"endTime":249.47,"body":"to be The big load of prior"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":245.448,"endTime":249.47,"body":"to three to five years ago,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":249.47,"endTime":252.322,"body":"there used to be a big load"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":249.47,"endTime":252.322,"body":"of, you know, this is the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":252.323,"endTime":254.11,"body":"plan, but what is the status?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":254.136,"endTime":255.103,"body":"Where are things at?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":255.114,"endTime":256.652,"body":"How are the dependencies"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":255.114,"endTime":256.652,"body":"matching up?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":256.653,"endTime":259.071,"body":"What are the risks, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":256.653,"endTime":259.071,"body":"how do we mitigate that?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":259.079,"endTime":260.1,"body":"How is QE doing?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":260.102,"endTime":263.68,"body":"And i-is, is the quality"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":260.102,"endTime":263.68,"body":"assurance aspect of our"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":263.68,"endTime":266.837,"body":"project on track, and is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":263.68,"endTime":266.837,"body":"there a risk over there?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":266.837,"endTime":269.711,"body":"And monitoring the bugs and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":266.837,"endTime":269.711,"body":"the bug reduction and, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":269.711,"endTime":272.191,"body":"monitoring the test coverage"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":269.711,"endTime":272.191,"body":"and so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":272.482,"endTime":275.082,"body":"So those were the problems,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":272.482,"endTime":275.082,"body":"and those were all ha-handled"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":275.082,"endTime":278.195,"body":"at that point, you know,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":275.082,"endTime":278.195,"body":"kind of same manually or"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":278.196,"endTime":279.998,"body":"semi-manually by the TPMs."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":280.271,"endTime":283.818,"body":"Then came four to five years ago"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":280.271,"endTime":283.818,"body":"where we started transforming"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":283.82,"endTime":285.969,"body":"that with Jira and Atlassian."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":286.051,"endTime":289.286,"body":"All of this, once you set up"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":286.051,"endTime":289.286,"body":"the plan, the status started"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":289.286,"endTime":292.468,"body":"bubbling up automatically, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":289.286,"endTime":292.468,"body":"you could just have the TPMs"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":292.489,"endTime":295.896,"body":"look at those dashboards and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":292.489,"endTime":295.896,"body":"assess what's red, what yellow,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":295.91,"endTime":299.143,"body":"what-- And then start involving"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":295.91,"endTime":299.143,"body":"themselves in problem-solving."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":299.143,"endTime":302.275,"body":"So then the role changed"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":299.143,"endTime":302.275,"body":"from okay, I'm making a plan,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":302.277,"endTime":304.707,"body":"but I'm also doing a lot of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":302.277,"endTime":304.707,"body":"status collection, reporting"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":304.708,"endTime":308.067,"body":"and risk reporting and, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":304.708,"endTime":308.067,"body":"facilitating risk mitigations."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":308.523,"endTime":311.928,"body":"I'm now observing live"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":308.523,"endTime":311.928,"body":"dashboards that tell me what"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":311.928,"endTime":314.346,"body":"the status is, but then as"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":311.928,"endTime":314.346,"body":"we see reds and yellows,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":314.348,"endTime":316.939,"body":"I'm coordinating all of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":314.348,"endTime":316.939,"body":"the solution-oriented, you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":316.939,"endTime":318.113,"body":"know, problem-solving there."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":318.412,"endTime":319.451,"body":"So that evolved."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":319.451,"endTime":321.891,"body":"And then now with AI,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":319.451,"endTime":321.891,"body":"there's more opportunities,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":321.896,"endTime":323.134,"body":"for example, for TPMs."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":323.181,"endTime":326.709,"body":"Example being, if you look"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":323.181,"endTime":326.709,"body":"at the tools that are in play"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":326.709,"endTime":328.837,"body":"today you know, you have on"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":326.709,"endTime":328.837,"body":"the one hand you have Jira,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":328.837,"endTime":331.2,"body":"and then you have GitHub"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":328.837,"endTime":331.2,"body":"where the code is written."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":331.21,"endTime":334.205,"body":"Then you have BrowserStack,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":331.21,"endTime":334.205,"body":"where all quality and the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":334.205,"endTime":335.567,"body":"deployment parts are managed."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":335.567,"endTime":338.583,"body":"And if you, if you can"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":335.567,"endTime":338.583,"body":"triangulate between these"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":338.586,"endTime":341.825,"body":"three different tools or"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":338.586,"endTime":341.825,"body":"other tools at play, then you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":341.828,"endTime":343.203,"body":"get more richer dashboards."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":343.203,"endTime":344.369,"body":"You have more richer data."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":344.398,"endTime":347.2,"body":"You have more richer"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":344.398,"endTime":347.2,"body":"analysis of risks and issues"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":347.201,"endTime":348.01,"body":"and so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":348.227,"endTime":350.446,"body":"So the TPM role evolves"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":348.227,"endTime":350.446,"body":"that way, you know."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":350.664,"endTime":353.239,"body":"We, we no longer have"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":350.664,"endTime":353.239,"body":"to manually find out"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":353.254,"endTime":354.354,"body":"what's red and yellow."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":354.664,"endTime":357.84,"body":"We could use AI to triangulate"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":354.664,"endTime":357.84,"body":"across multiple tools and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":357.84,"endTime":360.4,"body":"the right signals and the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":357.84,"endTime":360.4,"body":"right things to look at to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":360.402,"endTime":362.758,"body":"figure out where the reds"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":360.402,"endTime":362.758,"body":"and yellows are much better"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":362.759,"endTime":363.892,"body":"than we ever did before."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":364.099,"endTime":364.607,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":364.695,"endTime":368.025,"body":"I really like the framing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":364.695,"endTime":368.025,"body":"of the bottleneck shifting,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":368.108,"endTime":370.51,"body":"but the fact that they're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":368.108,"endTime":370.51,"body":"actually two different bottles."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":370.689,"endTime":374.843,"body":"So on the engineering side, it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":370.689,"endTime":374.843,"body":"like, yes, coders are spending"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":374.856,"endTime":377.969,"body":"less time manually writing code."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":378.211,"endTime":380.345,"body":"They're working with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":378.211,"endTime":380.345,"body":"Cursor, they're able to work"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":380.346,"endTime":383.207,"body":"faster, and that pushes that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":380.346,"endTime":383.207,"body":"bottleneck into the review."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":383.214,"endTime":385.641,"body":"When you're talking about like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":383.214,"endTime":385.641,"body":"a you know, an engineering"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":385.641,"endTime":389.23,"body":"team manager that means more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":385.641,"endTime":389.23,"body":"review for them actually, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":389.23,"endTime":390.303,"body":"It's like the bottleneck shifts."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":390.486,"endTime":391.658,"body":"Now there's probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":390.486,"endTime":391.658,"body":"more review."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":391.66,"endTime":395.343,"body":"There's more code to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":391.66,"endTime":395.343,"body":"be to, to kind of oversee and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":395.354,"endTime":398.25,"body":"they deliver value by keeping"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":395.354,"endTime":398.25,"body":"that, you know, pipeline"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":398.296,"endTime":401.051,"body":"moving solving problems"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":398.296,"endTime":401.051,"body":"quickly on the code side."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":401.292,"endTime":403.938,"body":"But in other words, that's where"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":401.292,"endTime":403.938,"body":"they can deliver more value."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":403.938,"endTime":406.401,"body":"There's not this extra"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":403.938,"endTime":406.401,"body":"capacity to then maybe do some"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":406.401,"endTime":407.624,"body":"technical program management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":407.696,"endTime":410.074,"body":"On the other side, the other"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":407.696,"endTime":410.074,"body":"bottle, right, is that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":410.328,"endTime":412.05,"body":"you know, the bottleneck"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":410.328,"endTime":412.05,"body":"used to be about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":412.055,"endTime":414.58,"body":"gathering information,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":412.055,"endTime":414.58,"body":"gath-gathering status updates"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":414.798,"endTime":418.5,"body":"and now, yeah, w- our role"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":414.798,"endTime":418.5,"body":"is being disrupted as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":418.84,"endTime":420.784,"body":"We're, we're using other"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":418.84,"endTime":420.784,"body":"tools, like you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":420.784,"endTime":424.108,"body":"Jira, we're using AI, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":420.784,"endTime":424.108,"body":"some of this automation is,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":424.171,"endTime":428.442,"body":"is moving us closer to solving"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":424.171,"endTime":428.442,"body":"the problems, not, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":428.455,"endTime":431.71,"body":"having us twiddling our thumbs"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":428.455,"endTime":431.71,"body":"all day and, you know, suddenly"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":431.71,"endTime":435.241,"body":"have capacity to be overseeing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":431.71,"endTime":435.241,"body":"a software engineering team."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":435.329,"endTime":436.222,"body":"Yeah, I like that framing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":436.222,"endTime":438.146,"body":"Disruption's happening on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":436.222,"endTime":438.146,"body":"both, but it doesn't equal"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":438.198,"endTime":439.591,"body":"this doesn't add up to one pie."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":439.602,"endTime":440.894,"body":"These are two separate things."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":441.077,"endTime":443.354,"body":"There's also"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":441.077,"endTime":443.354,"body":"another aspect which is like an,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":443.651,"endTime":447.794,"body":"a software engineering manager"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":443.651,"endTime":447.794,"body":"Software engineering director."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":447.911,"endTime":450.868,"body":"They can-- they are responsible"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":447.911,"endTime":450.868,"body":"for de- delivering high"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":450.933,"endTime":454.111,"body":"quality code that is secure"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":450.933,"endTime":454.111,"body":"and accessible and has the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":454.112,"endTime":457.441,"body":"right performance from their"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":454.112,"endTime":457.441,"body":"teams with, you know, pretty"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":457.441,"endTime":459.393,"body":"much good velocity these days."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":459.745,"endTime":461.437,"body":"They're, they're"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":459.745,"endTime":461.437,"body":"improving that velocity"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":461.437,"endTime":462.349,"body":"with AI and all of that."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":462.642,"endTime":465.687,"body":"But if you expect them to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":462.642,"endTime":465.687,"body":"also be responsible for"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":465.704,"endTime":468.805,"body":"the cross-functional parts"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":465.704,"endTime":468.805,"body":"of that delivery, which is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":468.88,"endTime":472.234,"body":"number one, dependencies"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":468.88,"endTime":472.234,"body":"from other software teams."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":472.529,"endTime":476.102,"body":"Number two, you know,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":472.529,"endTime":476.102,"body":"making sure that the test"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":476.123,"endTime":479.958,"body":"or the QE teams are actually"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":476.123,"endTime":479.958,"body":"finishing high level of code"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":479.958,"endTime":482.252,"body":"coverage and test coverage"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":479.958,"endTime":482.252,"body":"and so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":482.701,"endTime":486.006,"body":"Making sure that the performance"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":482.701,"endTime":486.006,"body":"scale system integration testing"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":486.007,"endTime":488.868,"body":"are going on track and, you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":486.007,"endTime":488.868,"body":"know, making sure the customers"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":488.868,"endTime":489.963,"body":"will get the product on time."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":490.079,"endTime":493.598,"body":"All of those aspects of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":490.079,"endTime":493.598,"body":"looking at the cross-functional"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":493.598,"endTime":496.416,"body":"aspects, including things"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":493.598,"endTime":496.416,"body":"like deliverables from the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":496.417,"endTime":498.864,"body":"infrastructure team, the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":496.417,"endTime":498.864,"body":"branching team, DevOps team,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":499.271,"endTime":502.765,"body":"so on and so forth, plus"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":499.271,"endTime":502.765,"body":"even the field, you know."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":502.776,"endTime":503.995,"body":"What are the field expectations?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":503.996,"endTime":505.861,"body":"Who's taking care of their"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":503.996,"endTime":505.861,"body":"tech docs and who's taking"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":505.861,"endTime":508.34,"body":"care of the messaging to the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":505.861,"endTime":508.34,"body":"field and so on and so forth?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":508.517,"endTime":510.201,"body":"There's so many"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":508.517,"endTime":510.201,"body":"cross-functional aspects."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":510.417,"endTime":513.405,"body":"All of that needs to be taken"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":510.417,"endTime":513.405,"body":"care of by somebody, and I"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":513.417,"endTime":518.181,"body":"think DPMs with the aid of all"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":513.417,"endTime":518.181,"body":"these tools can do those much,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":518.375,"endTime":521.527,"body":"much more efficiently, much"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":518.375,"endTime":521.527,"body":"faster, but it needs to be done."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":521.565,"endTime":523.852,"body":"And if you expect software"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":521.565,"endTime":523.852,"body":"engineering directors and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":524.182,"endTime":527.007,"body":"software engineering managers"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":524.182,"endTime":527.007,"body":"to actually do that, that's a"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":527.008,"endTime":528.329,"body":"little bit of an extra burden."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":528.548,"endTime":529.691,"body":"There's one more aspect."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":529.927,"endTime":532.951,"body":"It's, it's important to i-"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":529.927,"endTime":532.951,"body":"you know, take the analogy"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":532.951,"endTime":534.47,"body":"of the roadside safety."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":534.493,"endTime":538.067,"body":"We have DMV issuing licenses,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":534.493,"endTime":538.067,"body":"making sure cars are"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":538.067,"endTime":541.467,"body":"registered and the traffic"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":538.067,"endTime":541.467,"body":"rules are well known."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":541.791,"endTime":544.986,"body":"But there's also, you know,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":541.791,"endTime":544.986,"body":"highway patrol that is actually"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":544.987,"endTime":547.586,"body":"issuing tickets and making"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":544.987,"endTime":547.586,"body":"sure that, you know, people who"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":547.586,"endTime":551.298,"body":"are truants to the system are"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":547.586,"endTime":551.298,"body":"penalized through random audits"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":551.3,"endTime":552.689,"body":"or even systematic audits."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":552.694,"endTime":555.859,"body":"So you need both of that for"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":552.694,"endTime":555.859,"body":"a good system to work, and,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":555.865,"endTime":558.385,"body":"and you can't just expect"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":555.865,"endTime":558.385,"body":"to issue licenses, register"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":558.387,"endTime":561.426,"body":"every car, teach how people"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":558.387,"endTime":561.426,"body":"should drive safely, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":561.429,"endTime":562.564,"body":"then expect a good outcome."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":562.564,"endTime":564.06,"body":"You need the checks"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":562.564,"endTime":564.06,"body":"and balances."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":564.266,"endTime":566.018,"body":"I really like that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":564.266,"endTime":566.018,"body":"because I, I, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":566.018,"endTime":568.56,"body":"so much automation happening in,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":566.018,"endTime":568.56,"body":"in, in a lot of different roles"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":568.56,"endTime":571.181,"body":"right now, especially technical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":568.56,"endTime":571.181,"body":"program management, especially"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":571.181,"endTime":572.215,"body":"in software engineering."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":572.247,"endTime":574.672,"body":"And sometimes, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":572.247,"endTime":574.672,"body":"I, I hear people talk a lot"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":574.698,"endTime":577.0,"body":"about, you know, they're,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":574.698,"endTime":577.0,"body":"they're automating using these"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":577.006,"endTime":579.785,"body":"frameworks so that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":577.006,"endTime":579.785,"body":"all of those rules, the highway"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":579.785,"endTime":583.196,"body":"rules, you know, are all laid"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":579.785,"endTime":583.196,"body":"out for people and people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":583.196,"endTime":584.106,"body":"are just gonna follow them."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":584.156,"endTime":586.247,"body":"And to your point, it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":584.156,"endTime":586.247,"body":"like, no, that's actually"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":586.446,"endTime":587.493,"body":"not what humans do well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":587.497,"endTime":590.17,"body":"There's always gonna be people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":587.497,"endTime":590.17,"body":"who are, you know, running"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":590.17,"endTime":593.786,"body":"into problems, who are maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":590.17,"endTime":593.786,"body":"truants like on purpose,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":593.994,"endTime":596.157,"body":"who might not understand"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":593.994,"endTime":596.157,"body":"where the priorities are."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":596.157,"endTime":599.132,"body":"And fundamentally, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":596.157,"endTime":599.132,"body":"it needs someone to kind of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":599.132,"endTime":601.208,"body":"shepherd the process as well."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":601.35,"endTime":603.589,"body":"Less so than before,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":601.35,"endTime":603.589,"body":"but you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":603.589,"endTime":604.489,"body":"still value in that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":604.502,"endTime":606.515,"body":"And I think you raise a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":604.502,"endTime":606.515,"body":"really good point about so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":606.515,"endTime":609.796,"body":"many puzzle pieces need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":606.515,"endTime":609.796,"body":"come together to deliver"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":609.798,"endTime":613.261,"body":"a software product, only a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":609.798,"endTime":613.261,"body":"portion of that is code quality."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":613.43,"endTime":615.6,"body":"And the rest of it is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":613.43,"endTime":615.6,"body":"like this cross-functional"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":615.606,"endTime":619.127,"body":"orchestration to make sure"},{"speaker":"Galen 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auditing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":631.613,"endTime":634.437,"body":"code quality, you are helping"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":631.613,"endTime":634.437,"body":"solve technical problems."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":634.616,"endTime":637.239,"body":"And that's important, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":634.616,"endTime":637.239,"body":"if that got in the way of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":637.239,"endTime":640.762,"body":"delivery, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":637.239,"endTime":640.762,"body":"like the priority prioritizing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":640.763,"endTime":642.863,"body":"between those two things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":640.763,"endTime":642.863,"body":"would be very difficult."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":642.964,"endTime":646.113,"body":"Maybe we can actually sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":642.964,"endTime":646.113,"body":"like zoom out a bit because,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":646.3,"endTime":648.699,"body":"you know, in your background,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":646.3,"endTime":648.699,"body":"you've led teams of technical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":648.699,"endTime":651.29,"body":"program managers at companies"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":648.699,"endTime":651.29,"body":"like Dell and at Google, as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":651.291,"endTime":654.324,"body":"well as other large software"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":651.291,"endTime":654.324,"body":"firms, and we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":654.428,"endTime":655.648,"body":"problem-solving in a way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":655.695,"endTime":658.311,"body":"You know, we've been talking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":655.695,"endTime":658.311,"body":"about, okay, well, if you are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":658.323,"endTime":662.594,"body":"a software team lead, you might"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":658.323,"endTime":662.594,"body":"be solving technical problems."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":662.734,"endTime":664.761,"body":"And then we were talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":662.734,"endTime":664.761,"body":"the technical program manager"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":664.761,"endTime":667.262,"body":"solving problems as well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":664.761,"endTime":667.262,"body":"especially because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":667.262,"endTime":669.949,"body":"a lot of this reporting and the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":667.262,"endTime":669.949,"body":"dashboarding that's available to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":669.952,"endTime":674.301,"body":"them lets them be more proactive"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":669.952,"endTime":674.301,"body":"about solving problems."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":674.542,"endTime":675.885,"body":"But then there's this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":674.542,"endTime":675.885,"body":"like chasm, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":675.885,"endTime":678.571,"body":"It's like, well, w- what"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":675.885,"endTime":678.571,"body":"problems can a technical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":678.752,"endTime":681.045,"body":"program manager solve"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":678.752,"endTime":681.045,"body":"without being someone who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":681.045,"endTime":682.18,"body":"has a coding background?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":682.279,"endTime":685.683,"body":"So I, I, I wanted to ask you,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":682.279,"endTime":685.683,"body":"like what level of technical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":685.685,"endTime":688.715,"body":"fluency do you expect from your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":685.685,"endTime":688.715,"body":"technical program managers?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":688.963,"endTime":691.93,"body":"Or like what are some concepts"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":688.963,"endTime":691.93,"body":"that every TPM working with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":691.93,"endTime":695.041,"body":"software engineers should"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":691.93,"endTime":695.041,"body":"understand and, and why?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":695.175,"endTime":695.744,"body":"Wonderful."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":695.949,"endTime":699.289,"body":"So that leads me to one point I"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":695.949,"endTime":699.289,"body":"wanted to bring up elaborating"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":699.29,"endTime":702.464,"body":"on some of the discussion we had"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":699.29,"endTime":702.464,"body":"so far prior to this question,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":702.485,"endTime":704.709,"body":"and then we'll connect that to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":702.485,"endTime":704.709,"body":"this question of yours, right?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":705.017,"endTime":708.652,"body":"So there's one other point"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":705.017,"endTime":708.652,"body":"which is you can have a"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":708.661,"endTime":712.605,"body":"software manager or software"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":708.661,"endTime":712.605,"body":"director really manage the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":712.605,"endTime":715.862,"body":"projects that are well-contained"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":712.605,"endTime":715.862,"body":"within their organization."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":715.967,"endTime":718.536,"body":"But when it comes to a"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":715.967,"endTime":718.536,"body":"bigger deliverable that has"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":718.537,"endTime":722.137,"body":"dependencies across other"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":718.537,"endTime":722.137,"body":"teams, you know, then th-that's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":722.138,"endTime":723.651,"body":"when the TPM comes in."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":723.661,"endTime":726.761,"body":"Not just cross-functional"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":723.661,"endTime":726.761,"body":"from engineering to product"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":726.761,"endTime":730.627,"body":"management to design to, you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":726.761,"endTime":730.627,"body":"know, the field and go-to-market"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":730.725,"endTime":734.618,"body":"motion and, and tech docs and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":730.725,"endTime":734.618,"body":"so on and so forth, but also the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":734.633,"endTime":737.705,"body":"dependencies that exist within"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":734.633,"endTime":737.705,"body":"the software deliverable itself,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":737.756,"endTime":739.007,"body":"that is, that are across teams."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":739.016,"endTime":740.744,"body":"So, so that's one"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":739.016,"endTime":740.744,"body":"important point, right?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":740.746,"endTime":743.647,"body":"So we should never leave"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":740.746,"endTime":743.647,"body":"this conversation with the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":743.647,"endTime":747.428,"body":"understanding that a software"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":743.647,"endTime":747.428,"body":"manager or software director"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":747.439,"endTime":749.174,"body":"does not do project management."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":749.187,"endTime":751.578,"body":"They do, but they do it"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":749.187,"endTime":751.578,"body":"for deliverables that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":751.579,"endTime":753.9,"body":"are completely contained"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":751.579,"endTime":753.9,"body":"within their organization."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":753.912,"endTime":755.758,"body":"When it comes to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":753.912,"endTime":755.758,"body":"cross-functional things, you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":755.759,"endTime":758.689,"body":"know, it's much better done with"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":755.759,"endTime":758.689,"body":"a TPM from a neutral standpoint."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":758.706,"endTime":759.483,"body":"So that's one point."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":759.492,"endTime":762.523,"body":"And then when it comes to this"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":759.492,"endTime":762.523,"body":"question that you had in terms"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":762.524,"endTime":766.242,"body":"of what level of technical do"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":762.524,"endTime":766.242,"body":"the TPMs need to be, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":766.503,"endTime":772.281,"body":"I'm in favor of largely using"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":766.503,"endTime":772.281,"body":"TPM or hiring TPMs who have"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":772.306,"endTime":776.135,"body":"actually been a coder in the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":772.306,"endTime":776.135,"body":"past or a lot of exposure to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":776.138,"endTime":779.324,"body":"coding, because what that does"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":776.138,"endTime":779.324,"body":"is their ability to understand"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":779.326,"endTime":782.457,"body":"the language of engineers, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":779.326,"endTime":782.457,"body":"then you can win their respect"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":782.457,"endTime":785.298,"body":"and you can collaborate with"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":782.457,"endTime":785.298,"body":"them to-- When, when you're"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":785.298,"endTime":786.933,"body":"collaborating with them, if"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":785.298,"endTime":786.933,"body":"you don't understand their"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":786.933,"endTime":788.581,"body":"language, then you lose respect."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":788.588,"endTime":789.593,"body":"And so that's number one."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":789.596,"endTime":791.988,"body":"But second thing, you know,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":789.596,"endTime":791.988,"body":"you wanna really be an equal"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":792.024,"endTime":794.851,"body":"partner where they're good at"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":792.024,"endTime":794.851,"body":"coding, they, they understand."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":794.87,"endTime":796.629,"body":"But if you don't understand"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":794.87,"endTime":796.629,"body":"the lifestyle of the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":796.63,"endTime":798.775,"body":"code, for example you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":796.63,"endTime":798.775,"body":"know What are check-ins?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":798.778,"endTime":799.348,"body":"What is commits?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":799.348,"endTime":800.15,"body":"What is PR review?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":800.151,"endTime":801.251,"body":"What is PR review cycle?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":801.253,"endTime":803.759,"body":"What is the linting"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":801.253,"endTime":803.759,"body":"and static analysis?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":803.76,"endTime":806.548,"body":"And what is like unit testing"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":803.76,"endTime":806.548,"body":"versus system testing,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":806.548,"endTime":809.459,"body":"integration testing, performance"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":806.548,"endTime":809.459,"body":"testing, and deployment,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":809.46,"endTime":810.463,"body":"and so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":810.48,"endTime":813.404,"body":"So what are the nuances of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":810.48,"endTime":813.404,"body":"the various variables in a,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":813.474,"endTime":814.892,"body":"in a life cycle of coding?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":814.892,"endTime":816.372,"body":"You need to understand"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":814.892,"endTime":816.372,"body":"all of that."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":816.704,"endTime":819.481,"body":"If you've done some"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":816.704,"endTime":819.481,"body":"coding before, then you,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":819.51,"endTime":820.255,"body":"you would know that."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":820.263,"endTime":823.135,"body":"But, you know, after five to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":820.263,"endTime":823.135,"body":"10 years of being a good TPM"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":823.136,"endTime":826.661,"body":"and getting into seniority,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":823.136,"endTime":826.661,"body":"seniority of actually handling"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":826.661,"endTime":829.865,"body":"more complex things, you might"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":826.661,"endTime":829.865,"body":"get to a stage where coding is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":829.865,"endTime":832.815,"body":"a little rough right now, but"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":829.865,"endTime":832.815,"body":"you haven't really left the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":832.842,"endTime":836.569,"body":"college behind in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":832.842,"endTime":836.569,"body":"s- life cycle of, of a code"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":836.596,"endTime":837.774,"body":"on the coding side of things."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":837.98,"endTime":840.258,"body":"You're very good with the life"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":837.98,"endTime":840.258,"body":"cycle of things outside of it,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":840.258,"endTime":843.335,"body":"which is you know, requirements,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":840.258,"endTime":843.335,"body":"coding, testing, you know,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":843.389,"endTime":846.991,"body":"piloting, and then eventually"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":843.389,"endTime":846.991,"body":"getting into those GA and the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":846.992,"endTime":848.129,"body":"GA checklist and shipping."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":848.131,"endTime":850.526,"body":"So you know this broader thing,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":848.131,"endTime":850.526,"body":"but you should also know the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":850.527,"endTime":853.376,"body":"life cycle within the coding"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":850.527,"endTime":853.376,"body":"community and the engineers."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":853.393,"endTime":854.74,"body":"So that's why I prefer that."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":854.778,"endTime":857.028,"body":"And second level of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":854.778,"endTime":857.028,"body":"technicality they need to be"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":857.029,"endTime":860.919,"body":"is it, it helps if the TPM"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":857.029,"endTime":860.919,"body":"is aware of what the product"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":860.919,"endTime":861.642,"body":"is that they're shipping."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":861.643,"endTime":865.702,"body":"I've seen TPMs that are"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":861.643,"endTime":865.702,"body":"basically just able to overlay"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":865.702,"endTime":869.482,"body":"a process on the technical"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":865.702,"endTime":869.482,"body":"workflow, but then they don't"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":869.492,"endTime":872.395,"body":"know exactly what exactly is the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":869.492,"endTime":872.395,"body":"software that you're developing,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":872.396,"endTime":873.118,"body":"what exactly it does."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":873.118,"endTime":876.042,"body":"Because in today's world, a"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":873.118,"endTime":876.042,"body":"lot of systems software, a"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":876.042,"endTime":878.918,"body":"lot of SaaS software is pretty"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":876.042,"endTime":878.918,"body":"complex in terms of how it is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":878.925,"endTime":880.772,"body":"used by the end cons- customer."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":880.965,"endTime":883.855,"body":"So if you can understand that,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":880.965,"endTime":883.855,"body":"then when a new feature is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":883.863,"endTime":886.605,"body":"requested, you have a much"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":883.863,"endTime":886.605,"body":"better understanding of what it"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":886.605,"endTime":888.074,"body":"is that is getting developed."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":888.086,"endTime":888.842,"body":"What are we shipping?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":888.843,"endTime":890.078,"body":"What does this feature mean?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":890.229,"endTime":892.534,"body":"When you know that, then you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":890.229,"endTime":892.534,"body":"can have better conversation"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":892.534,"endTime":895.596,"body":"with product managers, designers"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":892.534,"endTime":895.596,"body":"a- and software engineers"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":895.597,"endTime":898.501,"body":"and, and even, for example,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":895.597,"endTime":898.501,"body":"customer success managers"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":898.503,"endTime":899.876,"body":"and, and systems engineers."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":900.158,"endTime":903.719,"body":"You'll have a much better"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":900.158,"endTime":903.719,"body":"cross-functional neutral equal"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":903.748,"endTime":907.394,"body":"partnership and facilitation"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":903.748,"endTime":907.394,"body":"skills if you understand"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":907.404,"endTime":909.216,"body":"what it is they are shipping"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":907.404,"endTime":909.216,"body":"and what the features are."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":909.323,"endTime":912.639,"body":"Third level of technical they"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":909.323,"endTime":912.639,"body":"really need to be is they need"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":912.64,"endTime":914.681,"body":"to be able to write their own"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":912.64,"endTime":914.681,"body":"scripts, generate their own"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":914.688,"endTime":918.562,"body":"dashboards generate their own"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":914.688,"endTime":918.562,"body":"live dashboards on whether it is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":918.59,"endTime":923.135,"body":"in, Jira or, or other tools like"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":918.59,"endTime":923.135,"body":"Tableau or Sisense or any of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":923.135,"endTime":924.279,"body":"the other tools that are there."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":924.403,"endTime":927.482,"body":"If you can do some script-"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":924.403,"endTime":927.482,"body":"scripting, if you can generate"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":927.495,"endTime":929.779,"body":"those dashboards, if you can"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":927.495,"endTime":929.779,"body":"look for the right signals"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":929.781,"endTime":932.116,"body":"and figure out what else we"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":929.781,"endTime":932.116,"body":"need to measure, so on and so"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":932.116,"endTime":933.313,"body":"forth, that would be helpful."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":933.319,"endTime":936.4,"body":"So those are also technical,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":933.319,"endTime":936.4,"body":"but not to the point that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":936.409,"endTime":937.486,"body":"you can actually write code."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":937.648,"endTime":939.958,"body":"That's my view, but, you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":937.648,"endTime":939.958,"body":"know, people differ in that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":940.098,"endTime":941.528,"body":"No, I really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":940.098,"endTime":941.528,"body":"like that, and I-- it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":941.529,"endTime":943.093,"body":"coming back to the first"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":941.529,"endTime":943.093,"body":"thing you said there,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":943.093,"endTime":944.255,"body":"which is really important."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":944.269,"endTime":945.258,"body":"It's not binary."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":945.258,"endTime":949.224,"body":"It's not that a only program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":945.258,"endTime":949.224,"body":"managers can do program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":949.241,"endTime":952.824,"body":"management, and it's not that,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":949.241,"endTime":952.824,"body":"oh, program managers will"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":952.833,"endTime":955.971,"body":"vanish because don't worry,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":952.833,"endTime":955.971,"body":"the software team managers are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":955.974,"endTime":957.985,"body":"gonna do the program management."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":957.993,"endTime":959.982,"body":"That's it's not that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":957.993,"endTime":959.982,"body":"black and white."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":959.998,"endTime":962.806,"body":"There's definitely a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":959.998,"endTime":962.806,"body":"spectrum in between, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":962.815,"endTime":964.958,"body":"one of the variables there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":962.815,"endTime":964.958,"body":"is complexity, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":964.959,"endTime":968.074,"body":"It's like, okay, well, if you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":964.959,"endTime":968.074,"body":"just delivering software within"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":968.075,"endTime":970.098,"body":"your team, and there's not a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":968.075,"endTime":970.098,"body":"lot of moving parts, and you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":970.1,"endTime":972.693,"body":"know your team so well, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":970.1,"endTime":972.693,"body":"you've got that system, by all"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":972.693,"endTime":976.122,"body":"means, some of that delivery"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":972.693,"endTime":976.122,"body":"will be less less complex."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":976.319,"endTime":978.328,"body":"Even if it's complicated,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":976.319,"endTime":978.328,"body":"it'll still be less complex."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":978.329,"endTime":979.22,"body":"It's things that you know."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":979.453,"endTime":982.647,"body":"Versus the highly complex"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":979.453,"endTime":982.647,"body":"project ecosystems, which"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":982.648,"endTime":985.175,"body":"might include vendors,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":982.648,"endTime":985.175,"body":"which include marketing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":985.175,"endTime":989.312,"body":"You know, you've got maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":985.175,"endTime":989.312,"body":"various product stakeholders and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":989.312,"endTime":992.68,"body":"it becomes more to manage and,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":989.312,"endTime":992.68,"body":"you know, the, the value there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":992.68,"endTime":996.459,"body":"is to stitch it all together"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":992.68,"endTime":996.459,"body":"and navigate that complexity"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":996.46,"endTime":999.43,"body":"so that it still gets delivered"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":996.46,"endTime":999.43,"body":"which I really appreciate."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":999.453,"endTime":1001.705,"body":"And I, and I really like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":999.453,"endTime":1001.705,"body":"this yeah, your theme on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1001.763,"endTime":1002.999,"body":"better conversations, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1002.999,"endTime":1006.006,"body":"Deeper understanding, having"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1002.999,"endTime":1006.006,"body":"the vocabulary equals,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1006.044,"endTime":1009.33,"body":"you know, being able to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1006.044,"endTime":1009.33,"body":"collaborate better with people."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1009.366,"endTime":1011.238,"body":"And then point well"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1009.366,"endTime":1011.238,"body":"taken especially."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1011.24,"endTime":1013.797,"body":"I'm glad you called it out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1011.24,"endTime":1013.797,"body":"on also, there's just a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1013.797,"endTime":1017.161,"body":"technicality to almost all"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1013.797,"endTime":1017.161,"body":"roles right now, including"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1017.176,"endTime":1020.247,"body":"the technical program manager"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1017.176,"endTime":1020.247,"body":"role, where you do need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1020.258,"endTime":1023.821,"body":"have the sensibility to build"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1020.258,"endTime":1023.821,"body":"a report or build a dashboard"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1023.834,"endTime":1026.449,"body":"or automate a process, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1023.834,"endTime":1026.449,"body":"that's becoming part of it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1026.589,"endTime":1030.603,"body":"But to your point, stopping shy"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1026.589,"endTime":1030.603,"body":"of necessarily being a person"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1030.605,"endTime":1035.192,"body":"who, you know, habitually writes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1030.605,"endTime":1035.192,"body":"code as part of you know, their"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1035.192,"endTime":1037.914,"body":"job either today or in the past."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1038.095,"endTime":1038.956,"body":"Two things I wanna ask you."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1038.957,"endTime":1041.594,"body":"One there's that depth of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1038.957,"endTime":1041.594,"body":"understanding piece, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1041.594,"endTime":1044.241,"body":"It's like we're gonna have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1041.594,"endTime":1044.241,"body":"better conversations, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1044.241,"endTime":1045.831,"body":"know, we're gonna earn respect."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1046.012,"endTime":1048.483,"body":"For the business leaders out"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1046.012,"endTime":1048.483,"body":"there who are kinda like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1048.483,"endTime":1051.184,"body":"\"Yeah, that sounds nice,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1048.483,"endTime":1051.184,"body":"Satish,\" but what's the ROI"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1051.454,"endTime":1054.486,"body":"on somebody having a deeper"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1051.454,"endTime":1054.486,"body":"understanding or having better"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1054.487,"endTime":1055.669,"body":"conversations with a team?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1055.676,"endTime":1058.271,"body":"What does that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1055.676,"endTime":1058.271,"body":"translate to for you?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1058.467,"endTime":1060.148,"body":"So look,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1058.467,"endTime":1060.148,"body":"if you're having better"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1060.15,"endTime":1063.745,"body":"conversations and That will"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1060.15,"endTime":1063.745,"body":"lead to better respect."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1063.87,"endTime":1066.812,"body":"Better respect means you'll"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1063.87,"endTime":1066.812,"body":"then be invited into bigger"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1066.852,"endTime":1070.43,"body":"tables of strategic discussions"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1066.852,"endTime":1070.43,"body":"where they'll look at you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1070.43,"endTime":1073.929,"body":"as a strategic partner on"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1070.43,"endTime":1073.929,"body":"the execution side, and also"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1073.932,"endTime":1076.78,"body":"making sure that the strategy"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1073.932,"endTime":1076.78,"body":"converts to good plans."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1076.845,"endTime":1079.713,"body":"If you don't win their"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1076.845,"endTime":1079.713,"body":"respect, if you don't have that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1079.833,"endTime":1083.274,"body":"vocabulary and the depth to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1079.833,"endTime":1083.274,"body":"win their respect, then what"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1083.284,"endTime":1086.049,"body":"happens is PMs and engineering"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1083.284,"endTime":1086.049,"body":"will figure it out what the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1086.049,"endTime":1088.703,"body":"strategy is, and you'll not"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1086.049,"endTime":1088.703,"body":"have a place on their table."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1088.745,"endTime":1091.933,"body":"And, and secondly, they'll"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1088.745,"endTime":1091.933,"body":"create a plan, and then"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1091.933,"endTime":1094.043,"body":"they'll hand it over to you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1091.933,"endTime":1094.043,"body":"and say \"You know, here's the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1094.044,"endTime":1096.483,"body":"plan. I would, I would like"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1094.044,"endTime":1096.483,"body":"for you to track it,\" because"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1096.483,"endTime":1097.393,"body":"that's where they put you."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1097.472,"endTime":1099.202,"body":"You don't have the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1097.472,"endTime":1099.202,"body":"vocabulary that they have,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1099.202,"endTime":1100.137,"body":"so they don't have respect."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1100.139,"endTime":1102.534,"body":"They don't invite you to table,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1100.139,"endTime":1102.534,"body":"and you become a tracker."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1102.552,"endTime":1103.798,"body":"They, they slot you there."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1103.805,"endTime":1107.094,"body":"So look, here is one thing"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1103.805,"endTime":1107.094,"body":"that is an im- is an important"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1107.204,"endTime":1110.417,"body":"concept that everybody"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1107.204,"endTime":1110.417,"body":"needs to understand is life"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1110.454,"endTime":1113.139,"body":"in software engineering"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1110.454,"endTime":1113.139,"body":"didn't begin with TPMs."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1113.145,"endTime":1115.462,"body":"It began with like"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1113.145,"endTime":1115.462,"body":"engineering people, and it"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1115.465,"endTime":1116.842,"body":"began with product managers."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1116.852,"endTime":1118.753,"body":"So product managers have"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1116.852,"endTime":1118.753,"body":"ideas, and engineering"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1118.774,"endTime":1121.465,"body":"folks are collaborating"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1118.774,"endTime":1121.465,"body":"with them and executing"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1121.465,"endTime":1122.321,"body":"and so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1122.616,"endTime":1126.316,"body":"Sometimes it's a technology"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1122.616,"endTime":1126.316,"body":"in- in- innovation, and when"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1126.316,"endTime":1128.868,"body":"a technology innovation, then"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1126.316,"endTime":1128.868,"body":"it started with engineers"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1129.064,"endTime":1131.126,"body":"and, and, and then you have"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1129.064,"endTime":1131.126,"body":"product managers being brought"},{"speaker":"Satish 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were"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1144.025,"endTime":1147.604,"body":"born from engineering or so-"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1144.025,"endTime":1147.604,"body":"or a CTO, like a technology"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1147.604,"endTime":1149.884,"body":"innovation team, and then they"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1147.604,"endTime":1149.884,"body":"brought in other engineers"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1149.886,"endTime":1152.47,"body":"to do the coding and product"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1149.886,"endTime":1152.47,"body":"managers to marketize that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1152.473,"endTime":1153.16,"body":"whole thing, you know."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1153.457,"endTime":1157.754,"body":"So that's how, you know, things"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1153.457,"endTime":1157.754,"body":"start as a new concept or a, or"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1157.754,"endTime":1161.353,"body":"a new startup and, and how new"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1157.754,"endTime":1161.353,"body":"concepts are, are brought and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1161.354,"endTime":1163.906,"body":"they even ship the first product"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1161.354,"endTime":1163.906,"body":"and there's no TPM in sight."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1164.168,"endTime":1167.516,"body":"But then the, the, the team"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1164.168,"endTime":1167.516,"body":"starts growing, the startup"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1167.52,"endTime":1170.525,"body":"sta- sta- starts growing, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1167.52,"endTime":1170.525,"body":"you have larger teams, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1170.527,"endTime":1173.019,"body":"then now you have multiple"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1170.527,"endTime":1173.019,"body":"engineering teams, and now"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1173.02,"endTime":1175.884,"body":"you need-- there is a need for"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1173.02,"endTime":1175.884,"body":"a common platform, otherwise"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1175.924,"endTime":1176.895,"body":"engineering is not scaling."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1176.896,"endTime":1178.065,"body":"It's too expensive to scale."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1178.285,"endTime":1180.685,"body":"So then we develop a common"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1178.285,"endTime":1180.685,"body":"platform where six verticals"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1180.686,"endTime":1183.286,"body":"can exit on, exist on that one"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1180.686,"endTime":1183.286,"body":"platform, and then you create"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1183.296,"endTime":1186.176,"body":"all these interdependencies"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1183.296,"endTime":1186.176,"body":"within engineering teams."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1186.705,"endTime":1188.83,"body":"That's when you say, \"You"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1186.705,"endTime":1188.83,"body":"know what? Let's get a TPM on"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1188.832,"endTime":1190.979,"body":"this, you know, so that we can"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1188.832,"endTime":1190.979,"body":"track all the dependencies.\""},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1190.98,"endTime":1195.817,"body":"So TPM is a function, let's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1190.98,"endTime":1195.817,"body":"accept this, is a function"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1195.819,"endTime":1198.984,"body":"that comes later in the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1195.819,"endTime":1198.984,"body":"game, not in the beginning"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1198.985,"endTime":1200.479,"body":"of the game of this."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1200.732,"endTime":1204.641,"body":"So by, by definition, you are"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1200.732,"endTime":1204.641,"body":"somebody who's going to be told"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1204.923,"endTime":1207.568,"body":"when you just come in as the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1204.923,"endTime":1207.568,"body":"first TPM of the organization,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1207.953,"endTime":1210.604,"body":"you're gonna be told what to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1207.953,"endTime":1210.604,"body":"do, how to do, what, what is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1210.606,"endTime":1211.536,"body":"the outcome and all of that."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1211.536,"endTime":1213.35,"body":"And slowly you can"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1211.536,"endTime":1213.35,"body":"start influencing."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1213.573,"endTime":1215.939,"body":"So you're already starting"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1213.573,"endTime":1215.939,"body":"off with that delayed"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1216.059,"endTime":1217.133,"body":"entry point, okay?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1217.133,"endTime":1220.584,"body":"So on top of that, if you're"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1217.133,"endTime":1220.584,"body":"not now g- now what happens in"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1220.586,"endTime":1223.534,"body":"that stage is the t- the PMs"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1220.586,"endTime":1223.534,"body":"and the engineering all have"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1223.534,"endTime":1226.832,"body":"been talking and strategizing"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1223.534,"endTime":1226.832,"body":"and making plans forever."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1227.124,"endTime":1228.503,"body":"You're just new on the block."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1228.504,"endTime":1229.658,"body":"You just joined day zero."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1229.923,"endTime":1232.785,"body":"So the respect that you have"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1229.923,"endTime":1232.785,"body":"to have in order to be an"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1232.785,"endTime":1235.717,"body":"equal partner has to be,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1232.785,"endTime":1235.717,"body":"you have to start from zero."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1235.721,"endTime":1238.255,"body":"They are already there, so they"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1235.721,"endTime":1238.255,"body":"have to give you the respect."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1238.257,"endTime":1239.129,"body":"It's not the other way around."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1239.131,"endTime":1241.997,"body":"So in that case, you have,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1239.131,"endTime":1241.997,"body":"you better have that language."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1242.004,"endTime":1243.981,"body":"You know, that's when you start"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1242.004,"endTime":1243.981,"body":"getting a seat to the table."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1244.008,"endTime":1245.933,"body":"So you, because you, you,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1244.008,"endTime":1245.933,"body":"you're a late entrant to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1245.933,"endTime":1248.305,"body":"the whole life cycle, it's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1245.933,"endTime":1248.305,"body":"important to know that, right?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1248.307,"endTime":1250.891,"body":"So when you have, \"Oh yeah,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1248.307,"endTime":1250.891,"body":"it makes sense. Okay, I"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1250.892,"endTime":1253.148,"body":"came in late. You know,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1250.892,"endTime":1253.148,"body":"I'm, I'm required only when"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1253.148,"endTime":1255.699,"body":"the dependencies became"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1253.148,"endTime":1255.699,"body":"complex.\" So bread and butter"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1255.7,"endTime":1257.771,"body":"is dependency management,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1255.7,"endTime":1257.771,"body":"but many other things as"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1257.772,"endTime":1258.885,"body":"well we talked about before."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1259.025,"endTime":1260.055,"body":"I really like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1259.025,"endTime":1260.055,"body":"that because there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1260.056,"endTime":1260.73,"body":"two things in there."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1260.732,"endTime":1262.327,"body":"One, it's yeah, don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1260.732,"endTime":1262.327,"body":"forget, you're probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1262.328,"endTime":1263.133,"body":"late to the party."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1263.344,"endTime":1265.208,"body":"You know, go in, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1263.344,"endTime":1265.208,"body":"have to earn respect."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1265.239,"endTime":1265.931,"body":"Go in humble."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1265.943,"endTime":1268.016,"body":"You're gonna be figuring out,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1265.943,"endTime":1268.016,"body":"you know, how they've been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1268.016,"endTime":1271.208,"body":"doing things, you know, for a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1268.016,"endTime":1271.208,"body":"long time before you arrived."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1271.465,"endTime":1273.209,"body":"But the other thing I think"},{"speaker":"Galen 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language"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1295.611,"endTime":1297.794,"body":"of all the teams you're working"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1297.794,"endTime":1300.374,"body":"with on a cross-functional"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1297.794,"endTime":1300.374,"body":"team, including product, and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1300.651,"endTime":1303.331,"body":"I'm looking at it from like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1300.651,"endTime":1303.331,"body":"the executive layer of being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1303.337,"endTime":1306.652,"body":"like, okay, well, what does the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1303.337,"endTime":1306.652,"body":"executive team think of when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1306.652,"endTime":1307.973,"body":"they think of strategic partner?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1308.153,"endTime":1310.601,"body":"And the thing that popped into"},{"speaker":"Galen 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customer"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1373.718,"endTime":1375.72,"body":"going to create value?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1375.83,"endTime":1378.408,"body":"And I think the more people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1375.83,"endTime":1378.408,"body":"understand, anyone on the team,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1378.409,"endTime":1381.315,"body":"but specifically, you know, the,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1378.409,"endTime":1381.315,"body":"the program manager, then they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1381.315,"endTime":1384.903,"body":"can sort of tilt their delivery"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1381.315,"endTime":1384.903,"body":"strategy in that direction."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1385.047,"endTime":1387.27,"body":"And it's funny because I"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1385.047,"endTime":1387.27,"body":"don't know if a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1387.276,"endTime":1389.629,"body":"see it that way because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1387.276,"endTime":1389.629,"body":"of exactly what you said."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1389.63,"endTime":1393.046,"body":"Sometimes, you know, not not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1389.63,"endTime":1393.046,"body":"just-- I'm not picking on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1393.049,"endTime":1396.486,"body":"program managers here obviously,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1393.049,"endTime":1396.486,"body":"but you know, there are roles"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1396.486,"endTime":1398.408,"body":"where you're just expected"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1396.486,"endTime":1398.408,"body":"to be administrative, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1398.742,"endTime":1400.709,"body":"Check the boxes, did the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1398.742,"endTime":1400.709,"body":"task get done, look at the"},{"speaker":"Galen 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that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1414.607,"endTime":1419.835,"body":"maybe even more than the value"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1419.869,"endTime":1420.968,"body":"of what was originally planned."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1421.014,"endTime":1423.313,"body":"And I think that's that's a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1421.014,"endTime":1423.313,"body":"really cool like value add"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1423.323,"endTime":1426.29,"body":"of okay, well, you know, why"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1423.323,"endTime":1426.29,"body":"should you have… Like who"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1426.292,"endTime":1427.586,"body":"cares if your team respects you?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1427.601,"endTime":1429.471,"body":"All you do is make sure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1427.601,"endTime":1429.471,"body":"they get their thing done."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1429.82,"endTime":1431.15,"body":"It's like that's not"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1429.82,"endTime":1431.15,"body":"the game anymore."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1431.595,"endTime":1431.845,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1431.847,"endTime":1433.564,"body":"So a couple of points there."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1433.565,"endTime":1435.93,"body":"One is the, talked"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1433.565,"endTime":1435.93,"body":"about business value."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1436.256,"endTime":1439.807,"body":"So one of the things We have"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1436.256,"endTime":1439.807,"body":"an opportunity with in, in,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1439.827,"endTime":1443.488,"body":"in this AI world right now"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1439.827,"endTime":1443.488,"body":"is if you have a concept,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1443.552,"endTime":1447.312,"body":"producing a vibe coded 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and hardening it into, into"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1488.722,"endTime":1493.542,"body":"GA. So a role can be played by"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1493.554,"endTime":1496.618,"body":"TPMs to enforce this process of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1493.554,"endTime":1496.618,"body":"research preview and so on and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1496.619,"endTime":1500.23,"body":"so forth to get higher value"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1496.619,"endTime":1500.23,"body":"before taking something to GA."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1500.35,"endTime":1503.95,"body":"The second part of it"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1500.35,"endTime":1503.95,"body":"is the strategic value"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1503.952,"endTime":1505.09,"body":"that you talked about."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1505.129,"endTime":1509.447,"body":"It's much easier when you and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1505.129,"endTime":1509.447,"body":"your C-level executive, you"},{"speaker":"Satish 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Low","startTime":1620.51,"endTime":1622.768,"body":"Join them now at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1620.51,"endTime":1622.768,"body":"fingerprint.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1622.873,"endTime":1623.883,"body":"And now back to the show."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1624.01,"endTime":1625.847,"body":"I wanna come back to that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1624.01,"endTime":1625.847,"body":"research preview thing in a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1625.847,"endTime":1628.007,"body":"little bit, but I think you've"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1625.847,"endTime":1628.007,"body":"raised a really good point about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1628.008,"endTime":1630.942,"body":"the fact that, you know, perhaps"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1628.008,"endTime":1630.942,"body":"more than ever before, but maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1630.942,"endTime":1633.162,"body":"it's the same, but there's a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1630.942,"endTime":1633.162,"body":"lot of change right now, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1633.232,"endTime":1634.926,"body":"Especially at that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1633.232,"endTime":1634.926,"body":"leadership layer."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1634.944,"endTime":1637.792,"body":"And you know, I, I hear a lot"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1634.944,"endTime":1637.792,"body":"of people experiencing that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1637.793,"endTime":1638.81,"body":"I've experienced it myself."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1639.016,"endTime":1640.673,"body":"People in my network are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1639.016,"endTime":1640.673,"body":"experiencing it all the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1640.673,"endTime":1642.808,"body":"time where, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1640.673,"endTime":1642.808,"body":"that, that really core"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1642.809,"endTime":1644.995,"body":"pillar of the organization"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1642.809,"endTime":1644.995,"body":"is swapped out, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1644.995,"endTime":1646.867,"body":"We're talking C-suite"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1644.995,"endTime":1646.867,"body":"executives, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1646.868,"endTime":1648.392,"body":"know, CDOs, CPOs."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1648.625,"endTime":1651.454,"body":"It they need to get up to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1648.625,"endTime":1651.454,"body":"speed quickly, but they"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1651.458,"endTime":1654.573,"body":"have been brought in to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1651.458,"endTime":1654.573,"body":"bring in their own ideas."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1654.582,"endTime":1656.161,"body":"And to your point,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1654.582,"endTime":1656.161,"body":"they might move fast."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1656.161,"endTime":1656.965,"body":"They have to move fast."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1657.081,"endTime":1657.962,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1658.053,"endTime":1660.837,"body":"And we are, we are definitely"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1658.053,"endTime":1660.837,"body":"an organization that is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1660.848,"endTime":1664.474,"body":"considered to be something"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1660.848,"endTime":1664.474,"body":"on the periphery, not core."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1664.68,"endTime":1667.431,"body":"You know, b- the sooner we"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1664.68,"endTime":1667.431,"body":"accept that and then add"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1667.432,"endTime":1670.478,"body":"value where there's a good"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1667.432,"endTime":1670.478,"body":"alignment you know, we'll be"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1670.479,"endTime":1671.741,"body":"more peaceful with ourselves."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1672.124,"endTime":1673.817,"body":"Well, I-- m-maybe"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1672.124,"endTime":1673.817,"body":"let's go there because, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1673.818,"endTime":1677.193,"body":"know, in some cases you have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1673.818,"endTime":1677.193,"body":"a very short window to defend"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1677.193,"endTime":1680.225,"body":"yourself and to defend your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1677.193,"endTime":1680.225,"body":"team, especially, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1680.268,"endTime":1682.367,"body":"you're, you're sort of, the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1680.268,"endTime":1682.367,"body":"head of delivery, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1682.369,"endTime":1685.166,"body":"You're overseeing your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1682.369,"endTime":1685.166,"body":"team of program managers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1685.456,"endTime":1686.718,"body":"A new leader comes in."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1686.728,"endTime":1689.12,"body":"They've got their own"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1686.728,"endTime":1689.12,"body":"preconceived notions, you know."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1689.132,"endTime":1692.728,"body":"You can read that they are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1689.132,"endTime":1692.728,"body":"probably going to make changes"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1692.736,"endTime":1695.624,"body":"to, you know, get some wins"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1692.736,"endTime":1695.624,"body":"under their belt quickly."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1695.729,"endTime":1698.357,"body":"How do you, A, get in there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1695.729,"endTime":1698.357,"body":"into the conversation, and B,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1698.648,"endTime":1702.137,"body":"how do you sort of defend the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1698.648,"endTime":1702.137,"body":"value that your team adds?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1702.218,"endTime":1705.807,"body":"And, you know, how has that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1702.218,"endTime":1705.807,"body":"argument, I guess I should say,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1705.807,"endTime":1709.07,"body":"you know, how, how does the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1705.807,"endTime":1709.07,"body":"case that you make for your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1709.071,"endTime":1713.318,"body":"team, how has that changed in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1709.071,"endTime":1713.318,"body":"the world of AI, where, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1713.318,"endTime":1715.794,"body":"know, software development"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1713.318,"endTime":1715.794,"body":"is being disrupted program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1715.794,"endTime":1717.289,"body":"management is being disrupted?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1717.538,"endTime":1720.396,"body":"You know, what are some of the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1717.538,"endTime":1720.396,"body":"ways that you can get at the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1720.397,"endTime":1724.417,"body":"table and explain why your team"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1720.397,"endTime":1724.417,"body":"is doing things the way they do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1724.423,"endTime":1725.879,"body":"things, and why that's valuable?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1726.107,"endTime":1728.762,"body":"In terms of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1726.107,"endTime":1728.762,"body":"the AI era versus the past,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1728.764,"endTime":1732.019,"body":"I mean, the, the core idea of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1728.764,"endTime":1732.019,"body":"having that conversation with"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1732.042,"endTime":1735.407,"body":"the new management or the new"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1732.042,"endTime":1735.407,"body":"C-level executive is the same."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1735.64,"endTime":1739.559,"body":"But now, I have to now use"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1735.64,"endTime":1739.559,"body":"a different standard to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1739.562,"endTime":1740.56,"body":"have that conversation."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1740.564,"endTime":1744.118,"body":"So in the past, it used to be"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1740.564,"endTime":1744.118,"body":"like, \"Okay, here's how we've"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1744.141,"endTime":1746.919,"body":"organized, and here's how we"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1744.141,"endTime":1746.919,"body":"are automating the dashboards"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1746.939,"endTime":1750.509,"body":"to get the status previews, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1746.939,"endTime":1750.509,"body":"here's how we are now actively"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1750.51,"endTime":1753.878,"body":"involved in problem-solving,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1750.51,"endTime":1753.878,"body":"risk mitigation,\" so on and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1753.878,"endTime":1756.709,"body":"so forth, and with the best of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1753.878,"endTime":1756.709,"body":"what was there five years ago."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1756.71,"endTime":1758.921,"body":"But today, you know, I have"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1756.71,"endTime":1758.921,"body":"to have this conversation as"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1758.921,"endTime":1762.453,"body":"to how we've taken that and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1758.921,"endTime":1762.453,"body":"how we've transformed that to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1762.826,"endTime":1765.854,"body":"the AI world, where we're now"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1762.826,"endTime":1765.854,"body":"triangulating across multiple"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1766.09,"endTime":1769.687,"body":"systems and looking for a lot"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1766.09,"endTime":1769.687,"body":"of the leading indicators to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1769.727,"endTime":1774.388,"body":"prevent a bad outcome as opposed"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1769.727,"endTime":1774.388,"body":"to you know, just reacting"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1774.388,"endTime":1777.347,"body":"to a bad outcome, which, you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1774.388,"endTime":1777.347,"body":"know, people will talk about,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1777.348,"endTime":1779.553,"body":"okay, you know, there are"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1777.348,"endTime":1779.553,"body":"consequences for bad outcome,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1779.555,"endTime":1781.467,"body":"but it's after the fact."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1781.468,"endTime":1784.115,"body":"You know, if you had TPMs and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1781.468,"endTime":1784.115,"body":"looking at leading indicators,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1784.119,"endTime":1786.513,"body":"then you would probably be able"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1784.119,"endTime":1786.513,"body":"to prevent some bad outcomes."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1786.52,"endTime":1790.159,"body":"So to have that conversation,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1786.52,"endTime":1790.159,"body":"so these are our leading"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1790.16,"endTime":1792.669,"body":"indicators, these are our"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1790.16,"endTime":1792.669,"body":"current dashboards, these"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1792.669,"endTime":1794.679,"body":"are the ways that we are"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1792.669,"endTime":1794.679,"body":"triangulating across multiple"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1794.68,"endTime":1797.675,"body":"systems, these are the ways"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1794.68,"endTime":1797.675,"body":"we've used AI in the TPM"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1797.683,"endTime":1801.262,"body":"world to augment AI use in"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1797.683,"endTime":1801.262,"body":"engineering, and here's how"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1801.279,"endTime":1804.316,"body":"we are leading this team and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1801.279,"endTime":1804.316,"body":"have adapted to this AI world."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1804.622,"endTime":1806.124,"body":"That's the conversation"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1804.622,"endTime":1806.124,"body":"I would have."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1806.221,"endTime":1810.069,"body":"Sometimes you have enough time"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1806.221,"endTime":1810.069,"body":"to have those conversations"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1810.095,"endTime":1813.379,"body":"in one-on-ones with the new"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1810.095,"endTime":1813.379,"body":"person or in team meetings or in"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1813.38,"endTime":1816.749,"body":"other settings, and you should"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1813.38,"endTime":1816.749,"body":"actually, I, I seek out for"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1816.75,"endTime":1819.659,"body":"that opportunity, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1816.75,"endTime":1819.659,"body":"soon as I know that there's a"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1819.662,"endTime":1822.092,"body":"change happening, and sometimes"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1819.662,"endTime":1822.092,"body":"I win and sometimes I don't."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1822.164,"endTime":1822.656,"body":"It's okay."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1822.937,"endTime":1823.156,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1823.346,"endTime":1826.506,"body":"Some battles are unwinnable,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1823.346,"endTime":1826.506,"body":"I, I would say in that context,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1826.506,"endTime":1828.881,"body":"you know, especially with an"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1826.506,"endTime":1828.881,"body":"executive who's come in and is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1828.881,"endTime":1832.465,"body":"under pressure to make change"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1828.881,"endTime":1832.465,"body":"you know, to you know, impact,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1832.482,"endTime":1835.176,"body":"you know, profitability and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1832.482,"endTime":1835.176,"body":"the bottom line to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1835.178,"endTime":1836.315,"body":"make changes in staffing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1836.589,"endTime":1839.101,"body":"But what I really like about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1836.589,"endTime":1839.101,"body":"that is it's an educational"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1839.101,"endTime":1842.234,"body":"piece because the role is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1839.101,"endTime":1842.234,"body":"different than probably"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1842.26,"endTime":1845.225,"body":"these preconceived notions"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1842.26,"endTime":1845.225,"body":"of what some people, anybody,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1845.226,"endTime":1847.797,"body":"not just executives, but"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1845.226,"endTime":1847.797,"body":"the preconceived notions of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1847.797,"endTime":1849.499,"body":"what a program manager does."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1849.598,"endTime":1851.819,"body":"You know, there's a sort of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1849.598,"endTime":1851.819,"body":"picture in people's mind and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1851.821,"endTime":1853.817,"body":"they're like, \"Well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1851.821,"endTime":1853.817,"body":"we've got all these we have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1853.818,"endTime":1856.115,"body":"tools, we've got software,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1853.818,"endTime":1856.115,"body":"we've got smart people. We don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1856.118,"endTime":1859.27,"body":"need more smart people making"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1856.118,"endTime":1859.27,"body":"sure smart people do things,\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1859.526,"endTime":1860.504,"body":"which is not the job anymore."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1860.642,"endTime":1863.569,"body":"The value is in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1860.642,"endTime":1863.569,"body":"avoiding issues, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1863.569,"endTime":1867.329,"body":"Risk management and especially"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1863.569,"endTime":1867.329,"body":"at speed, being able to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1867.455,"endTime":1870.949,"body":"ensure a good outcome with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1867.455,"endTime":1870.949,"body":"the value attached to it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1871.288,"endTime":1875.276,"body":"'Cause to your point it's a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1871.288,"endTime":1875.276,"body":"much better win story than"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1875.288,"endTime":1878.515,"body":"what I see happen a lot, which"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1875.288,"endTime":1878.515,"body":"is \"Ugh, that was a disaster."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1878.533,"endTime":1880.694,"body":"You know, we collided with"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1878.533,"endTime":1880.694,"body":"all these things,\" and then"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1880.694,"endTime":1882.918,"body":"that new exec kind of has to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1880.694,"endTime":1882.918,"body":"wash their hands of it, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1882.918,"endTime":1886.174,"body":"They're like, \"Okay, well, that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1882.918,"endTime":1886.174,"body":"was before my time. You know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1886.177,"endTime":1888.942,"body":"like I you know, that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1886.177,"endTime":1888.942,"body":"clearly something we need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1888.943,"endTime":1892.857,"body":"fix.\" Why not just not have"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1888.943,"endTime":1892.857,"body":"that moment and remove as much"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1892.858,"endTime":1896.08,"body":"risk as possible from delivery,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1892.858,"endTime":1896.08,"body":"have that value highlighted?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1896.28,"endTime":1898.271,"body":"You're really supporting"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1896.28,"endTime":1898.271,"body":"that executive's you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1898.281,"endTime":1901.403,"body":"win story for them as well,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1898.281,"endTime":1901.403,"body":"'cause nobody wants things"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1901.404,"endTime":1902.958,"body":"to just go off the rails."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1903.052,"endTime":1905.4,"body":"There is the strategy of let"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1903.052,"endTime":1905.4,"body":"things go off the rails so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1905.4,"endTime":1908.646,"body":"you can fire those people,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1905.4,"endTime":1908.646,"body":"but I think in general it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1908.65,"endTime":1911.858,"body":"much cleaner to say, \"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1908.65,"endTime":1911.858,"body":"well yeah, like I've been"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1911.858,"endTime":1914.162,"body":"able to pull all these teams"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1911.858,"endTime":1914.162,"body":"together, make sure we're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1914.164,"endTime":1918.032,"body":"focusing on value. The program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1914.164,"endTime":1918.032,"body":"management team gets it. They"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1918.033,"endTime":1921.576,"body":"are helping us mitigate and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1918.033,"endTime":1921.576,"body":"manage risk so that we can"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1921.578,"endTime":1924.831,"body":"move our strategy forward,\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1921.578,"endTime":1924.831,"body":"is, you know, to me, I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1924.833,"endTime":1925.991,"body":"that, that's pretty compelling."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1926.102,"endTime":1926.658,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1926.879,"endTime":1930.234,"body":"And my view honestly is that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1926.879,"endTime":1930.234,"body":"a good solid TPM team with"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1930.247,"endTime":1933.897,"body":"the right way of operating in"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1930.247,"endTime":1933.897,"body":"this AI age, they can be an"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1933.897,"endTime":1938.285,"body":"effective way of identifying"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1933.897,"endTime":1938.285,"body":"leading indicators of risks"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1938.304,"endTime":1941.882,"body":"in any program, in any"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1938.304,"endTime":1941.882,"body":"execution, in any operationally"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1942.041,"endTime":1948.974,"body":"efficient team to warn of the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1942.041,"endTime":1948.974,"body":"upcoming of a bad outcome and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1948.975,"endTime":1950.374,"body":"then, and then mitigate it."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1950.572,"endTime":1952.703,"body":"Otherwise, yes, there"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":1950.572,"endTime":1952.703,"body":"are consequences to"},{"speaker":"Satish 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indicators so that we--"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1981.603,"endTime":1984.011,"body":"you know, it's our crystal ball"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1984.011,"endTime":1985.606,"body":"so that we can avoid problems."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1985.811,"endTime":1988.741,"body":"How different is the role"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1985.811,"endTime":1988.741,"body":"of the technical program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1988.741,"endTime":1991.894,"body":"manager today versus, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1988.741,"endTime":1991.894,"body":"know, three or four years ago?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1991.895,"endTime":1994.088,"body":"Like what areas have changed?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1994.088,"endTime":1995.636,"body":"What priorities have changed?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1995.657,"endTime":1999.611,"body":"What are your expectations when"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1995.657,"endTime":1999.611,"body":"it comes to, you know, having"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":1999.612,"endTime":2000.917,"body":"your teams deliver value?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2001.102,"endTime":2003.283,"body":"Look, there's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2001.102,"endTime":2003.283,"body":"going to be software"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2003.283,"endTime":2006.779,"body":"engineers are operating"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2003.283,"endTime":2006.779,"body":"10x, 100x, really superstars"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2006.782,"endTime":2008.405,"body":"100x compared to before."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2008.541,"endTime":2009.431,"body":"We have to do the same."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2009.508,"endTime":2010.319,"body":"It's very important."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2010.328,"endTime":2015.222,"body":"So we have to stop being people"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2010.328,"endTime":2015.222,"body":"that make manual reports or"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2015.318,"endTime":2016.819,"body":"do manual status collection."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2016.828,"endTime":2019.993,"body":"We have to stop being people"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2016.828,"endTime":2019.993,"body":"that are not looking at"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2020.129,"endTime":2024.014,"body":"automated live dashboards and,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2020.129,"endTime":2024.014,"body":"and then assessing red, yellows."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2024.056,"endTime":2026.482,"body":"To be honest with you, right"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2024.056,"endTime":2026.482,"body":"now, we should validate the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2026.483,"endTime":2028.802,"body":"reds and yellows that are"},{"speaker":"Satish 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con-completion,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2057.966,"endTime":2060.673,"body":"that's a red flag."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2060.679,"endTime":2063.557,"body":"So you, you, you have that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2060.679,"endTime":2063.557,"body":"triangulation risk coming up"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2063.636,"endTime":2065.21,"body":"early on before it's too late."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2065.688,"endTime":2067.54,"body":"Also, you know, if you're"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2065.688,"endTime":2067.54,"body":"thinking-- if you're looking"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2067.54,"endTime":2070.522,"body":"at the progress on the testing"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2067.54,"endTime":2070.522,"body":"side, you should look at"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2070.793,"endTime":2073.829,"body":"what's BrowserStack telling"},{"speaker":"Satish 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changes and new"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2089.151,"endTime":2092.436,"body":"ways of thinking, thinking"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2089.151,"endTime":2092.436,"body":"about where the project's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2092.436,"endTime":2095.724,"body":"at and where we are with"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2092.436,"endTime":2095.724,"body":"delivering value, you know,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2095.739,"endTime":2098.466,"body":"then, then yeah, we deserve"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2095.739,"endTime":2098.466,"body":"to be defunct at some point."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2098.468,"endTime":2100.534,"body":"But if you if you keep"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2098.468,"endTime":2100.534,"body":"up, then those are the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2100.536,"endTime":2101.607,"body":"best people that survive."},{"speaker":"Satish 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today,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2117.342,"endTime":2119.145,"body":"their time is also limited."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2119.438,"endTime":2122.734,"body":"They have to get to get on board"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2119.438,"endTime":2122.734,"body":"with you know, pretty much all"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2122.735,"endTime":2125.816,"body":"of the code is generated by AI,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2122.735,"endTime":2125.816,"body":"but there is a human oversight"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2125.825,"endTime":2128.447,"body":"to make sure that it's doing"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2125.825,"endTime":2128.447,"body":"the right things and it's you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2128.447,"endTime":2131.674,"body":"know, making sure that it's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2128.447,"endTime":2131.674,"body":"not violating key boundaries."},{"speaker":"Satish 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functions"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2148.589,"endTime":2151.636,"body":"are accelerating to do"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2148.589,"endTime":2151.636,"body":"things faster and better."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2152.024,"endTime":2153.376,"body":"I really like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2152.024,"endTime":2153.376,"body":"that, like the whole,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2153.436,"endTime":2156.973,"body":"comes back to that scale"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2153.436,"endTime":2156.973,"body":"enablement and value, I was"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2156.973,"endTime":2158.153,"body":"gonna say value enablement."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2158.446,"endTime":2160.056,"body":"Yeah, I think that might be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2158.446,"endTime":2160.056,"body":"the right descriptor, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2160.056,"endTime":2163.799,"body":"It's like n- not being more"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2160.056,"endTime":2163.799,"body":"of a bottleneck because we're,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2163.812,"endTime":2167.089,"body":"you know, outdated in the, the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2163.812,"endTime":2167.089,"body":"way things work, especially"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2167.09,"endTime":2169.603,"body":"in software engineering today,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2167.09,"endTime":2169.603,"body":"but also, you know, being"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2169.603,"endTime":2170.788,"body":"an active participant in it."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2170.794,"endTime":2173.551,"body":"I really like that notion of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2170.794,"endTime":2173.551,"body":"yeah, identifying discrepancies"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2173.572,"endTime":2176.63,"body":"between systems because it's"},{"speaker":"Galen 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know"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2187.419,"endTime":2191.213,"body":"we had said okay, well, yes,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2191.243,"endTime":2194.012,"body":"a technical program manager"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2191.243,"endTime":2194.012,"body":"does not need to have a coding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2194.013,"endTime":2196.751,"body":"background, does not need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2194.013,"endTime":2196.751,"body":"be expected to write code,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2197.041,"endTime":2199.318,"body":"should understand a bit about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2197.041,"endTime":2199.318,"body":"the software development life"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2199.318,"endTime":2201.24,"body":"cycle, yes, to earn respect."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2201.413,"endTime":2203.124,"body":"But we touched on a little"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2201.413,"endTime":2203.124,"body":"bit about and also to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2203.124,"endTime":2204.587,"body":"like help solve problems."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2204.798,"endTime":2209.019,"body":"What level of problems do you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2204.798,"endTime":2209.019,"body":"expect your technical program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2209.019,"endTime":2210.443,"body":"managers to be able to solve?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2210.452,"endTime":2213.981,"body":"Is it all sort of coordinating"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2210.452,"endTime":2213.981,"body":"teams and make sure that, making"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2213.983,"endTime":2216.769,"body":"sure that they are on the same"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2213.983,"endTime":2216.769,"body":"page and finding that alignment?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2217.015,"endTime":2217.81,"body":"Or is it deeper?"},{"speaker":"Galen 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based on a"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2263.833,"endTime":2266.598,"body":"problem, you know, okay,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2266.598,"endTime":2268.094,"body":"this team is lagging behind."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2268.096,"endTime":2269.039,"body":"We need to give them help."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2269.049,"endTime":2271.802,"body":"But at least based on what"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2269.049,"endTime":2271.802,"body":"that team is doing and how"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2271.802,"endTime":2274.098,"body":"it's functioning and what it's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2271.802,"endTime":2274.098,"body":"delivering, you should be able"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2274.1,"endTime":2277.377,"body":"to say there are some sister"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2274.1,"endTime":2277.377,"body":"teams that are of similar"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2277.382,"endTime":2280.84,"body":"capability, and let me just"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2277.382,"endTime":2280.84,"body":"voice the idea of getting"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2280.84,"endTime":2284.576,"body":"help from some other similar"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2280.84,"endTime":2284.576,"body":"teams on, you know, helping"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2284.585,"endTime":2285.922,"body":"here, so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2286.201,"endTime":2289.502,"body":"If there's a platform team"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2286.201,"endTime":2289.502,"body":"that is basically delayed and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2289.504,"endTime":2292.941,"body":"will affect the release of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2289.504,"endTime":2292.941,"body":"a particular vertical, then,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2292.953,"endTime":2295.586,"body":"you know, it's important to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2292.953,"endTime":2295.586,"body":"make sure that the platform"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2295.6,"endTime":2299.069,"body":"work within the team is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2295.6,"endTime":2299.069,"body":"prioritized to ensure a high"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2299.069,"endTime":2301.464,"body":"priority vertical ships on"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2299.069,"endTime":2301.464,"body":"time, and so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2301.707,"endTime":2304.854,"body":"But I think to understand"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2301.707,"endTime":2304.854,"body":"if this team has a problem,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2304.861,"endTime":2308.33,"body":"who else can be brought in"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2304.861,"endTime":2308.33,"body":"to assist solving for that?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2308.348,"endTime":2310.524,"body":"You can brainstorm with the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2308.348,"endTime":2310.524,"body":"engineering director there,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2310.567,"endTime":2311.937,"body":"and so on and so forth as well."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2312.136,"endTime":2314.937,"body":"But if you bring some original"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2312.136,"endTime":2314.937,"body":"thoughts to the table for"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2314.955,"endTime":2317.649,"body":"the consideration from the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2314.955,"endTime":2317.649,"body":"engineering leader, you know,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2317.661,"endTime":2320.667,"body":"then that brings you more"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2317.661,"endTime":2320.667,"body":"respect and alleviates some"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2320.667,"endTime":2322.919,"body":"of the brainstorming that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2320.667,"endTime":2322.919,"body":"they have to do themselves."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2322.922,"endTime":2324.796,"body":"So at least take something"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2322.922,"endTime":2324.796,"body":"off of their plate."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2325.134,"endTime":2327.497,"body":"And I think it-- once you do"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2325.134,"endTime":2327.497,"body":"that, you know, get the right"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2327.524,"endTime":2329.965,"body":"parties on the table, look"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2327.524,"endTime":2329.965,"body":"where the parties we could"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2329.969,"endTime":2333.874,"body":"source from, and then frame"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2329.969,"endTime":2333.874,"body":"the question and frame the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2333.973,"endTime":2337.358,"body":"problem-solving next steps"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2333.973,"endTime":2337.358,"body":"in a way that they have to do"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2337.359,"endTime":2340.293,"body":"less work to figure out the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2337.359,"endTime":2340.293,"body":"next steps towards a solution."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2340.713,"endTime":2343.247,"body":"I think that adds quite a"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2340.713,"endTime":2343.247,"body":"bit of value, and that's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2343.248,"endTime":2344.25,"body":"what I'm seeing practically."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2344.25,"endTime":2346.602,"body":"I'm not seeing people who"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2344.25,"endTime":2346.602,"body":"can actually be the person"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2346.603,"endTime":2349.346,"body":"who can go and tell certain"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2346.603,"endTime":2349.346,"body":"group of engineers to do a"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2349.347,"endTime":2352.041,"body":"certain thing to, to solve"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2349.347,"endTime":2352.041,"body":"the problem, you know."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2352.421,"endTime":2353.134,"body":"So I'm not seeing that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2353.204,"endTime":2354.531,"body":"I like the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2353.204,"endTime":2354.531,"body":"sort of recurring theme"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2354.532,"endTime":2357.081,"body":"of a deeper understanding"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2354.532,"endTime":2357.081,"body":"actually ends up creating"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2357.081,"endTime":2358.639,"body":"more value along the way."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2358.891,"endTime":2361.919,"body":"For example, if you already"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2358.891,"endTime":2361.919,"body":"know, right, you can do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2361.932,"endTime":2362.928,"body":"intelligent resourcing."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2362.929,"endTime":2365.766,"body":"You know, you already know"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2362.929,"endTime":2365.766,"body":"that another team has the right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2365.766,"endTime":2368.592,"body":"capabilities, is available,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2365.766,"endTime":2368.592,"body":"and could be a solution."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2368.6,"endTime":2370.756,"body":"You can bring that to your"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2368.6,"endTime":2370.756,"body":"team instead of being like,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2370.981,"endTime":2373.044,"body":"\"Hey, this is your problem to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2370.981,"endTime":2373.044,"body":"solve. Solve it by Friday.\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2373.283,"endTime":2375.943,"body":"You could be collaborative"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2373.283,"endTime":2375.943,"body":"about it and maybe get"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2375.943,"endTime":2376.76,"body":"to a solution faster."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2376.988,"endTime":2378.784,"body":"So when you do"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2376.988,"endTime":2378.784,"body":"that former part, like this"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2378.784,"endTime":2380.672,"body":"is your problem, you solve"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2378.784,"endTime":2380.672,"body":"it, and then you just keep"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2380.674,"endTime":2383.623,"body":"them accountable to a date,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2380.674,"endTime":2383.623,"body":"then you know that that's when"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2383.623,"endTime":2385.089,"body":"you- your respect goes down."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2385.089,"endTime":2387.898,"body":"But if you have enough, you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2385.089,"endTime":2387.898,"body":"have enough knowledge of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2387.898,"endTime":2390.994,"body":"what they're doing to say,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2387.898,"endTime":2390.994,"body":"okay, you know, and c-come"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2390.996,"endTime":2394.503,"body":"up with some 70% solutions in"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2390.996,"endTime":2394.503,"body":"terms of resource assignment"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2394.503,"endTime":2397.351,"body":"at least, or some creative"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2394.503,"endTime":2397.351,"body":"ways to solve the problems."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2397.351,"endTime":2399.928,"body":"You can give them even a little"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2397.351,"endTime":2399.928,"body":"bit and say, \"Hey, here's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2399.931,"endTime":2402.194,"body":"something that I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2399.931,"endTime":2402.194,"body":"about, but you guys own this,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2402.194,"endTime":2404.582,"body":"so if this is useful, use"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2402.194,"endTime":2404.582,"body":"it. Otherwise, figure out.\""},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2404.838,"endTime":2407.232,"body":"Then they'll automatically"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2404.838,"endTime":2407.232,"body":"start appreciating that you're"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2407.233,"endTime":2409.305,"body":"coming in with you know,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2407.233,"endTime":2409.305,"body":"at least some suggestions."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2409.307,"endTime":2412.805,"body":"And I think that's where people"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2409.307,"endTime":2412.805,"body":"tend to give you a little"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2412.805,"endTime":2414.967,"body":"bit more respect than, than"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2412.805,"endTime":2414.967,"body":"if you just went in there"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2414.967,"endTime":2417.076,"body":"and said, \"Hey, this is your"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2414.967,"endTime":2417.076,"body":"problem. Can you solve it?\" Or-"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2417.247,"endTime":2419.801,"body":"I love that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2417.247,"endTime":2419.801,"body":"phrase, 70% solutions."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2419.909,"endTime":2420.33,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2421.275,"endTime":2423.205,"body":"Bring them something that's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2421.275,"endTime":2423.205,"body":"like partially baked."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2423.205,"endTime":2425.07,"body":"It's not final, but at"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2423.205,"endTime":2425.07,"body":"least it's a starting point."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2425.351,"endTime":2428.597,"body":"Actually, before I, I kind"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2425.351,"endTime":2428.597,"body":"of, I, I framed it as though"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2428.599,"endTime":2432.01,"body":"you were saying that TPM"},{"speaker":"Galen 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Menon","startTime":2443.302,"endTime":2444.105,"body":"No, not at all."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2444.342,"endTime":2447.882,"body":"In fact it is just a process"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2444.342,"endTime":2447.882,"body":"change and something that, you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2447.883,"endTime":2451.092,"body":"know, they can bring together"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2447.883,"endTime":2451.092,"body":"in terms of a process flow."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2451.484,"endTime":2454.383,"body":"So, PMs and, and senior"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2451.484,"endTime":2454.383,"body":"engineers, they are the ones"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2454.383,"endTime":2457.019,"body":"who would be vibe coding,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2454.383,"endTime":2457.019,"body":"and PMs would be the one that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2457.021,"endTime":2459.643,"body":"would coordinate and make sure"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2457.021,"endTime":2459.643,"body":"that there are good customer"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2459.644,"endTime":2462.425,"body":"demos and so on, and then get"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2459.644,"endTime":2462.425,"body":"more requirements and so on."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2462.427,"endTime":2465.641,"body":"But it's more of TPMs are"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2462.427,"endTime":2465.641,"body":"just overseeing that process"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2465.698,"endTime":2466.915,"body":"in that flow, to be clear."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2467.119,"endTime":2467.419,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2467.625,"endTime":2469.219,"body":"And actually, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2467.625,"endTime":2469.219,"body":"know, and I think the thing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2469.219,"endTime":2471.306,"body":"that's kind of also coming"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2469.219,"endTime":2471.306,"body":"out is you know, everyone's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2471.307,"endTime":2472.919,"body":"moving faster, right?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2472.947,"endTime":2476.163,"body":"10x 50x, 100x especially on"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2472.947,"endTime":2476.163,"body":"the software engineering side."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2476.446,"endTime":2479.756,"body":"But the sense I get is"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2476.446,"endTime":2479.756,"body":"togetherness is valuable, too."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2479.884,"endTime":2482.906,"body":"It's not like the silos don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2479.884,"endTime":2482.906,"body":"have to be there anymore because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2483.057,"endTime":2484.27,"body":"the teams are more efficient."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2484.519,"endTime":2486.699,"body":"And I guess what I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2484.519,"endTime":2486.699,"body":"in my head is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2486.702,"endTime":2489.106,"body":"that research preview doesn't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2486.702,"endTime":2489.106,"body":"happen without engineering."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2489.162,"endTime":2489.566,"body":"You know?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2489.583,"endTime":2492.587,"body":"It's not like we have to work"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2489.583,"endTime":2492.587,"body":"in the silo because engineering"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2492.587,"endTime":2495.224,"body":"needs to do all these things,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2492.587,"endTime":2495.224,"body":"so we'll do our own little"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2495.224,"endTime":2497.42,"body":"prototype and talk to the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2495.224,"endTime":2497.42,"body":"clien- It's like there's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2497.421,"endTime":2498.591,"body":"actually more togetherness."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2498.592,"endTime":2502.411,"body":"There's more collaboration,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2498.592,"endTime":2502.411,"body":"partly because developers are"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2502.411,"endTime":2506.16,"body":"not just hand-typing code,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2502.411,"endTime":2506.16,"body":"partly because program managers"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2506.168,"endTime":2508.45,"body":"have, you know, tools and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2506.168,"endTime":2508.45,"body":"dashboards and effi- other"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2508.45,"endTime":2511.075,"body":"efficiencies available to them"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2508.45,"endTime":2511.075,"body":"through technology, partly"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2511.075,"endTime":2514.643,"body":"because, you know, product"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2511.075,"endTime":2514.643,"body":"managers, you know, can do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2514.692,"endTime":2518.052,"body":"a, a prototype vibe coded or"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2514.692,"endTime":2518.052,"body":"otherwise, very rapidly so"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2518.052,"endTime":2521.577,"body":"that we can all understand"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2518.052,"endTime":2521.577,"body":"the value, move the, the the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2521.577,"endTime":2524.632,"body":"progress bar forward make sure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2521.577,"endTime":2524.632,"body":"we have stakeholder alignment."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2524.764,"endTime":2527.563,"body":"And like all of that is removing"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2524.764,"endTime":2527.563,"body":"risk from delivery you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2527.563,"endTime":2528.826,"body":"in the grand scheme of things."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2528.877,"endTime":2531.351,"body":"From what I've"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2528.877,"endTime":2531.351,"body":"seen, vibe coding and, and early"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2531.351,"endTime":2535.462,"body":"demos or research previews, I've"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2531.351,"endTime":2535.462,"body":"seen that happen based on vibe"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2535.467,"endTime":2539.645,"body":"coding that engineers did based"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2535.467,"endTime":2539.645,"body":"on what PMs did or even what"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2539.848,"endTime":2541.271,"body":"people from product design did."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2541.582,"endTime":2543.961,"body":"So they have an cool idea, they"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2541.582,"endTime":2543.961,"body":"just quickly vibe code it and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2543.961,"endTime":2547.909,"body":"then, you know, we are no longer"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2543.961,"endTime":2547.909,"body":"restricted to what we did in the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2547.909,"endTime":2551.338,"body":"older days, which was just start"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2547.909,"endTime":2551.338,"body":"showing some how things would"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2551.35,"endTime":2553.108,"body":"be based on just a Figma design."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2553.187,"endTime":2554.758,"body":"You know, we, we"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2553.187,"endTime":2554.758,"body":"are past that stage."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2555.003,"endTime":2556.226,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2555.003,"endTime":2556.226,"body":"we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2556.282,"endTime":2557.235,"body":"technical program managers."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2557.236,"endTime":2559.329,"body":"That role, they don't need to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2557.236,"endTime":2559.329,"body":"be coders, but it would help"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2559.33,"endTime":2561.535,"body":"if they, you know, understood"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2559.33,"endTime":2561.535,"body":"something about the software"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2561.537,"endTime":2564.012,"body":"development life cycle and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2561.537,"endTime":2564.012,"body":"sort of spoke the lingo."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2564.108,"endTime":2567.854,"body":"How do you approach hiring"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2564.108,"endTime":2567.854,"body":"decisions around that lens?"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2567.904,"endTime":2571.842,"body":"Would you rather hire a former"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2567.904,"endTime":2571.842,"body":"developer who has since become"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2571.843,"endTime":2575.14,"body":"a great program manager,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2571.843,"endTime":2575.14,"body":"or would you rather hire"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2575.334,"endTime":2578.002,"body":"a longtime program manager"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2575.334,"endTime":2578.002,"body":"who just doesn't even know"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2578.003,"endTime":2578.842,"body":"what a merge request is?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2579.165,"endTime":2581.9,"body":"Like I said"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2579.165,"endTime":2581.9,"body":"before, I think TPMs who've been"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2581.956,"endTime":2584.638,"body":"coding before is a better TPM."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2584.717,"endTime":2587.649,"body":"However, there are exceptions"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2584.717,"endTime":2587.649,"body":"because I've seen TPMs who"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2587.711,"endTime":2590.867,"body":"became TPMs and then they"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2587.711,"endTime":2590.867,"body":"spent a lot of time with"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2590.886,"endTime":2593.665,"body":"coders to understand and then"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2590.886,"endTime":2593.665,"body":"learn it that way as well."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2594.049,"endTime":2597.82,"body":"So I'm testing for the outcome"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2594.049,"endTime":2597.82,"body":"as opposed to really looking"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2597.822,"endTime":2600.483,"body":"for that in their resume to say"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2597.822,"endTime":2600.483,"body":"have they been a coder before?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2600.589,"endTime":2603.728,"body":"I look for can they"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2600.589,"endTime":2603.728,"body":"effectively talk the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2603.728,"endTime":2605.785,"body":"language of the engineers?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2605.814,"endTime":2607.531,"body":"Can they effectively talk"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2605.814,"endTime":2607.531,"body":"the language of product"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2607.531,"endTime":2608.604,"body":"managers and designers?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2608.72,"endTime":2610.417,"body":"And in that case,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2608.72,"endTime":2610.417,"body":"that's what I test for."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2610.419,"endTime":2613.628,"body":"So how they got there, whether"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2610.419,"endTime":2613.628,"body":"they got there because they were"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2613.631,"endTime":2616.947,"body":"a coder before or because they--"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2613.631,"endTime":2616.947,"body":"once they took their job, they"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2616.949,"endTime":2620.593,"body":"actually partnered and really"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2616.949,"endTime":2620.593,"body":"studied how their partners"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2620.594,"endTime":2622.535,"body":"in coding did their work."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2622.662,"endTime":2625.093,"body":"Regardless of how they did"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2622.662,"endTime":2625.093,"body":"that, if they are-- if that's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2625.096,"endTime":2627.638,"body":"the product that is in front"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2625.096,"endTime":2627.638,"body":"of me, then I would hire them."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2628.049,"endTime":2631.386,"body":"The-- I would say, though,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2628.049,"endTime":2631.386,"body":"today the opportunities that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2631.388,"endTime":2636.688,"body":"a TPM has to get into software"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2631.388,"endTime":2636.688,"body":"TPM work without a coding"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2636.699,"endTime":2639.808,"body":"background, even if it's dist-"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2636.699,"endTime":2639.808,"body":"in their distant past, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2639.81,"endTime":2643.382,"body":"having the opportunity to,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2639.81,"endTime":2643.382,"body":"on the job, collaborate with"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2643.394,"endTime":2645.895,"body":"the coders to kind of learn"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2643.394,"endTime":2645.895,"body":"their workflow and so on,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2645.895,"endTime":2648.502,"body":"so forth, that opportunity"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2645.895,"endTime":2648.502,"body":"is really low right now."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2648.741,"endTime":2651.569,"body":"So this, this worst case, like"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2648.741,"endTime":2651.569,"body":"15 years ago, you could do that."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2651.824,"endTime":2653.852,"body":"You're a hardware program"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2651.824,"endTime":2653.852,"body":"manager and some software"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2653.854,"endTime":2656.285,"body":"project needs a great"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2653.854,"endTime":2656.285,"body":"TPM to come in and help."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2656.303,"endTime":2657.953,"body":"They would say, \"Okay, you know,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2656.303,"endTime":2657.953,"body":"you can come in and then you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2657.955,"endTime":2661.263,"body":"can talk to these folks, and you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2657.955,"endTime":2661.263,"body":"can learn how software works.\""},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2661.286,"endTime":2664.404,"body":"That kind of openness was"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2661.286,"endTime":2664.404,"body":"more prevalent in those days."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2664.756,"endTime":2666.116,"body":"Today, that opportunity is less."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2666.131,"endTime":2668.799,"body":"The tolerance for somebody"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2666.131,"endTime":2668.799,"body":"who needs some training on"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2668.799,"endTime":2670.308,"body":"the job is very, very low."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2670.564,"endTime":2671.961,"body":"They're looking for"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2670.564,"endTime":2671.961,"body":"ready-made people."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2671.971,"endTime":2675.178,"body":"So that's an unfortunate market"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2671.971,"endTime":2675.178,"body":"dynamic, but that's how I"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2675.181,"endTime":2678.381,"body":"would put it in terms of how"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2675.181,"endTime":2678.381,"body":"I hire and what's required."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2678.498,"endTime":2681.537,"body":"It's a very realistic"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2678.498,"endTime":2681.537,"body":"lens you know, and it maps to,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2681.549,"endTime":2684.176,"body":"you know, what, what I hear"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2681.549,"endTime":2684.176,"body":"out in the market right now."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2684.207,"endTime":2687.475,"body":"And yeah, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2684.207,"endTime":2687.475,"body":"the-- not to say if you don't"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2687.479,"endTime":2689.757,"body":"know what a merge request"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2687.479,"endTime":2689.757,"body":"is, then you won't get a job."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2689.828,"endTime":2693.475,"body":"But be prepared to educate"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2689.828,"endTime":2693.475,"body":"yourself and find every"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2693.476,"endTime":2697.005,"body":"opportunity to be able- Yeah"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2693.476,"endTime":2697.005,"body":"… to speak that language, to be"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2697.005,"endTime":2700.63,"body":"conversant with those crunk-"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2697.005,"endTime":2700.63,"body":"cross-functional teams, because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2700.632,"endTime":2702.935,"body":"the tolerance is less right"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2700.632,"endTime":2702.935,"body":"now for you to go in there"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2702.935,"endTime":2704.661,"body":"and be like, \"What's Jira?\""},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2705.305,"endTime":2706.917,"body":"Like it's probably, you know-"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2707.43,"endTime":2709.505,"body":"You could do"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2707.43,"endTime":2709.505,"body":"that 15 years ago, not- Right."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2709.605,"endTime":2709.801,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2710.116,"endTime":2710.408,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2710.41,"endTime":2712.733,"body":"Now, 'cause it's not seen as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2710.41,"endTime":2712.733,"body":"separate anymore, and ag- you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2712.733,"endTime":2715.332,"body":"know, again, I, it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2712.733,"endTime":2715.332,"body":"like, the bar is higher because"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2715.34,"endTime":2717.591,"body":"the togetherness is higher."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2717.923,"endTime":2719.997,"body":"Also, the delivery pressure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2717.923,"endTime":2719.997,"body":"is higher, don't get me wrong."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2719.998,"endTime":2722.522,"body":"It's like we can't afford to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2719.998,"endTime":2722.522,"body":"slow down or make mistakes."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2722.535,"endTime":2726.423,"body":"The, the, the expectation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2722.535,"endTime":2726.423,"body":"is that we are flawless at,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2726.463,"endTime":2728.324,"body":"you know, 10x, 50x, 100x."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2728.372,"endTime":2731.773,"body":"But also I, I, I like that idea"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2728.372,"endTime":2731.773,"body":"that it's like, well, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2731.774,"endTime":2735.098,"body":"we want you to come and start"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2731.774,"endTime":2735.098,"body":"being part of this team and and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2735.342,"endTime":2737.99,"body":"be able to have the dialogue"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2735.342,"endTime":2737.99,"body":"and, and be up to speed really"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2737.991,"endTime":2740.403,"body":"quickly 'cause, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2737.991,"endTime":2740.403,"body":"that, that is what we need."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2740.479,"endTime":2742.789,"body":"And I think it's a, it's a great"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2740.479,"endTime":2742.789,"body":"lens to look at things through,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2742.812,"endTime":2745.339,"body":"even if you're somebody who does"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2742.812,"endTime":2745.339,"body":"not have a technical background,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2745.468,"endTime":2747.703,"body":"wants to work at some of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2745.468,"endTime":2747.703,"body":"these software companies."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2747.866,"endTime":2751.176,"body":"There may be some work to do"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2747.866,"endTime":2751.176,"body":"beforehand or, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2751.176,"endTime":2754.038,"body":"you are sort of ramping up,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2751.176,"endTime":2754.038,"body":"get to that point quickly"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2754.336,"endTime":2756.131,"body":"because that is what's"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2754.336,"endTime":2756.131,"body":"going to be expected of you."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2756.252,"endTime":2759.401,"body":"Yes, and there are"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2756.252,"endTime":2759.401,"body":"some companies and, and hiring"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2759.401,"endTime":2763.028,"body":"managers that hire strictly"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2759.401,"endTime":2763.028,"body":"on situational questions"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2763.028,"endTime":2764.158,"body":"that are non-technical."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2764.534,"endTime":2765.466,"body":"I don't do that."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2765.523,"endTime":2769.419,"body":"In all of my interviews,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2765.523,"endTime":2769.419,"body":"I have a specific question"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2769.428,"endTime":2773.712,"body":"bank that I create to test"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2769.428,"endTime":2773.712,"body":"for the technical fluencies"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2773.748,"endTime":2775.814,"body":"in the areas that I expect."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2775.814,"endTime":2778.749,"body":"And of course, I'll cater it"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2775.814,"endTime":2778.749,"body":"to the candidate to make sure"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2778.75,"endTime":2782.632,"body":"that it is within range of what"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2778.75,"endTime":2782.632,"body":"that person should have done"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2782.665,"endTime":2785.789,"body":"and should be knowledgeable"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2782.665,"endTime":2785.789,"body":"technically based on all"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2785.789,"endTime":2787.118,"body":"the claims in their resume."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2787.551,"endTime":2789.044,"body":"in terms of the products"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2787.551,"endTime":2789.044,"body":"they have shipped"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2789.049,"endTime":2790.053,"body":"before and all of that."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2790.053,"endTime":2794.268,"body":"So there is a, a ton of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2790.053,"endTime":2794.268,"body":"technical fluency questions that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2794.284,"endTime":2798.031,"body":"kind of objectively determines"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2794.284,"endTime":2798.031,"body":"that, you know, is this g-"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2798.117,"endTime":2801.277,"body":"what, what scale this person"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2798.117,"endTime":2801.277,"body":"is on a scale of zero to 10"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2801.277,"endTime":2804.822,"body":"in terms of technical fluency,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2801.277,"endTime":2804.822,"body":"both in the vertical market"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2804.837,"endTime":2809.132,"body":"aspect of their area that they"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2804.837,"endTime":2809.132,"body":"have shipped, and also on the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2809.141,"endTime":2812.206,"body":"general workflow of a software"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2809.141,"endTime":2812.206,"body":"engineer and so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2812.273,"endTime":2815.255,"body":"And then there are situational"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2812.273,"endTime":2815.255,"body":"questions on that people aspect"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2815.257,"endTime":2817.958,"body":"and that emotional quotient"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2815.257,"endTime":2817.958,"body":"of the candidate, right?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2818.0,"endTime":2820.33,"body":"If I interview… You,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2818.0,"endTime":2820.33,"body":"you talked about ca-"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2820.387,"endTime":2822.113,"body":"type of candidates that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2820.387,"endTime":2822.113,"body":"I would hire and so on."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2822.122,"endTime":2823.383,"body":"That's why I thought"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2822.122,"endTime":2823.383,"body":"I'd mention that."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2823.709,"endTime":2827.154,"body":"And it's a very objective set of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2823.709,"endTime":2827.154,"body":"question bank that I create, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2827.154,"endTime":2831.253,"body":"I also tailor make the interview"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2827.154,"endTime":2831.253,"body":"panel to test different aspects"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2831.275,"endTime":2833.761,"body":"of that question bank from the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2831.275,"endTime":2833.761,"body":"candidate, and therefore you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2833.772,"endTime":2836.706,"body":"have an objective assessment"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2833.772,"endTime":2836.706,"body":"in the end as to what they did."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2837.098,"endTime":2839.417,"body":"And I learned this"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2837.098,"endTime":2839.417,"body":"objective interviewing"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2839.424,"endTime":2840.71,"body":"methodology at Google."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2840.711,"endTime":2842.756,"body":"They, they, they were the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2840.711,"endTime":2842.756,"body":"first place that I figured,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2842.83,"endTime":2845.691,"body":"\"Oh, wow, this is like very"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2842.83,"endTime":2845.691,"body":"objective, very, very scientific"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2846.064,"endTime":2849.102,"body":"way of hiring.\" And, and I got"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2846.064,"endTime":2849.102,"body":"updated and learned from them."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2849.186,"endTime":2851.536,"body":"So credit to them but I"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2849.186,"endTime":2851.536,"body":"follow that process even-"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2851.7,"endTime":2852.397,"body":"I really like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2852.401,"endTime":2854.706,"body":"I like that it's like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2852.401,"endTime":2854.706,"body":"handcrafted for the candidate."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2854.785,"endTime":2857.581,"body":"Not to put you too much on the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2854.785,"endTime":2857.581,"body":"spot, but do you have an example"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2857.581,"endTime":2860.494,"body":"that you could share with us"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2857.581,"endTime":2860.494,"body":"of a situational question that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2860.496,"endTime":2863.241,"body":"tests some of the technical"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2860.496,"endTime":2863.241,"body":"knowledge, you know, of a"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2863.242,"endTime":2864.713,"body":"particular type of candidate?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2864.982,"endTime":2865.203,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2865.203,"endTime":2867.722,"body":"So for example, like someone"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2865.203,"endTime":2867.722,"body":"claims they've been working"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2867.723,"endTime":2872.015,"body":"in a SaaS environment and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2867.723,"endTime":2872.015,"body":"optimized the release env-"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2872.036,"endTime":2875.377,"body":"environment there for faster"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2872.036,"endTime":2875.377,"body":"delivery or something like that,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2875.377,"endTime":2878.111,"body":"or somebody talks about having"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2875.377,"endTime":2878.111,"body":"released SaaS products before."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2878.308,"endTime":2880.662,"body":"Then I would have questions"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2878.308,"endTime":2880.662,"body":"about, you know, what is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2880.663,"endTime":2883.589,"body":"different about a SaaS"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2880.663,"endTime":2883.589,"body":"software delivery compared"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2883.619,"endTime":2887.515,"body":"to on-prem and, and what are"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2883.619,"endTime":2887.515,"body":"some of the areas that they"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2887.516,"endTime":2890.613,"body":"have taken shortcuts compared"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2887.516,"endTime":2890.613,"body":"to on-prem delivery and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2890.613,"endTime":2892.181,"body":"why, and so on and so forth."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2892.183,"endTime":2893.992,"body":"So I would kind of question"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2892.183,"endTime":2893.992,"body":"them on the detail, and then,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2893.992,"endTime":2895.683,"body":"I mean, they give me some"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2893.992,"endTime":2895.683,"body":"question, I would ask them some"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2895.683,"endTime":2899.258,"body":"more follow-ups to go deeper"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2895.683,"endTime":2899.258,"body":"and deeper to see, you know, how"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2899.259,"endTime":2902.687,"body":"much did they understand about"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2899.259,"endTime":2902.687,"body":"really the SaaS delivery or"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2903.21,"endTime":2904.802,"body":"the how the product functioned."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2904.817,"endTime":2907.598,"body":"And some people might talk"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2904.817,"endTime":2907.598,"body":"about some product they released"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2907.598,"endTime":2909.787,"body":"in Disney, or some other"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2907.598,"endTime":2909.787,"body":"people talk about the product"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2909.787,"endTime":2911.273,"body":"they released at Salesforce."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2911.648,"endTime":2914.319,"body":"Then I will do some research"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2911.648,"endTime":2914.319,"body":"about the products of the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2914.319,"endTime":2917.975,"body":"company that they came from"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2914.319,"endTime":2917.975,"body":"and what those products did."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2918.067,"endTime":2919.907,"body":"And then I would ask some"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2918.067,"endTime":2919.907,"body":"questions about some of the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2919.907,"endTime":2923.166,"body":"features that they released"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2919.907,"endTime":2923.166,"body":"for that product, for that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2923.166,"endTime":2924.866,"body":"company, and that they"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2923.166,"endTime":2924.866,"body":"should be familiar with."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2924.889,"endTime":2926.717,"body":"What, what was the feature"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2924.889,"endTime":2926.717,"body":"that they released,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2926.729,"endTime":2927.637,"body":"for example, right?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2927.878,"endTime":2929.872,"body":"So that means they tell me"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2927.878,"endTime":2929.872,"body":"that they didn't just overlay"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2929.872,"endTime":2934.156,"body":"process on top of a software"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2929.872,"endTime":2934.156,"body":"life cycle that was going on,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2934.158,"endTime":2936.902,"body":"and they didn't know whether"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2934.158,"endTime":2936.902,"body":"wha- what was the starting"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2936.904,"endTime":2939.606,"body":"point, what was delivered, and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2936.904,"endTime":2939.606,"body":"what was the change that the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2939.607,"endTime":2942.169,"body":"software they delivered brought"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2939.607,"endTime":2942.169,"body":"about for their customers."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2942.437,"endTime":2943.858,"body":"They should be able"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2942.437,"endTime":2943.858,"body":"to explain that to me."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2943.858,"endTime":2945.855,"body":"And then, you know, that,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2943.858,"endTime":2945.855,"body":"that's that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2945.908,"endTime":2948.231,"body":"Yeah, and I would have some"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2945.908,"endTime":2948.231,"body":"basic other questions on like"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2948.231,"endTime":2951.046,"body":"software life cycle on the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2948.231,"endTime":2951.046,"body":"coding side, for example, or"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2951.046,"endTime":2955.781,"body":"on the DevOps side, or on the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2951.046,"endTime":2955.781,"body":"difference between staging"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2955.785,"endTime":2958.545,"body":"and, and a real production"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2955.785,"endTime":2958.545,"body":"environment and what were"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2958.545,"endTime":2961.607,"body":"the guardrails there and"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2958.545,"endTime":2961.607,"body":"how was the separation of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2961.642,"endTime":2964.131,"body":"making sure that there is no"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2961.642,"endTime":2964.131,"body":"security vulnerability that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2964.435,"endTime":2966.953,"body":"would just be introduced by"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2964.435,"endTime":2966.953,"body":"having staging in a production"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2966.954,"endTime":2968.092,"body":"environment, for example."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2968.095,"endTime":2971.403,"body":"So I would a, question them"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2968.095,"endTime":2971.403,"body":"on all of those details to"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2971.403,"endTime":2974.521,"body":"understand did they get the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2971.403,"endTime":2974.521,"body":"concepts of how software works,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2974.524,"endTime":2976.695,"body":"how cloud works, how, you"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":2974.524,"endTime":2976.695,"body":"know, the things like that."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2976.868,"endTime":2977.015,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2977.128,"endTime":2980.059,"body":"We started this conversation"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2977.128,"endTime":2980.059,"body":"out kind of around the idea"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2980.059,"endTime":2983.712,"body":"of mismatched expectations of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2980.059,"endTime":2983.712,"body":"you know, technical program"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2983.712,"endTime":2987.183,"body":"managers, where they think that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2983.712,"endTime":2987.183,"body":"they deliver value versus, you"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2987.184,"endTime":2990.677,"body":"know, some business leaders"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2987.184,"endTime":2990.677,"body":"and executives who, you know,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2990.684,"endTime":2995.088,"body":"would really wish that the"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2990.684,"endTime":2995.088,"body":"TPM role and the software"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2995.088,"endTime":2997.826,"body":"engineering team manager"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2995.088,"endTime":2997.826,"body":"role would just combine and"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2997.826,"endTime":3000.742,"body":"become, you know, one single"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":2997.826,"endTime":3000.742,"body":"class instead of, instead"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3000.743,"endTime":3002.482,"body":"of, you know, two headcount,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3000.743,"endTime":3002.482,"body":"it would be, it'd be one."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3002.539,"endTime":3004.852,"body":"And I think you've made a lot"},{"speaker":"Galen 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Low","startTime":3014.468,"endTime":3019.306,"body":"But let's say that the sort of,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3014.468,"endTime":3019.306,"body":"you know, software manager TPM"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3019.324,"endTime":3024.222,"body":"hybrid role prevails as like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3019.324,"endTime":3024.222,"body":"the dominant team structure"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3024.224,"endTime":3025.314,"body":"in software development."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3025.499,"endTime":3028.244,"body":"What do you think the impact"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3025.499,"endTime":3028.244,"body":"would be, and what would"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3028.244,"endTime":3031.996,"body":"it mean for leaders like"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3028.244,"endTime":3031.996,"body":"you who believe strongly in"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3032.0,"endTime":3034.49,"body":"the idea that the two roles"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3032.0,"endTime":3034.49,"body":"actually should stay separate?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3034.751,"endTime":3037.353,"body":"As a community,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3034.751,"endTime":3037.353,"body":"what we can do should"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3037.364,"endTime":3041.311,"body":"then be thought of as"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3037.364,"endTime":3041.311,"body":"stuff that we can control."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3041.457,"endTime":3044.166,"body":"And, and what we cannot control"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3041.457,"endTime":3044.166,"body":"is, is beyond our hands."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3044.166,"endTime":3047.412,"body":"So what we can control is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3044.166,"endTime":3047.412,"body":"to be ahead of the game in"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3047.415,"endTime":3052.451,"body":"terms of what the tools of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3047.415,"endTime":3052.451,"body":"today are enabling us to do"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3052.88,"endTime":3057.506,"body":"that would still be A value"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3052.88,"endTime":3057.506,"body":"add for a product delivery."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3057.796,"endTime":3059.637,"body":"Think in terms of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3057.796,"endTime":3059.637,"body":"cross-functional."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3059.697,"endTime":3061.971,"body":"Think in terms of multi-team."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3062.021,"endTime":3063.976,"body":"Think in terms of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3062.021,"endTime":3063.976,"body":"interdisciplinary."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3064.022,"endTime":3067.695,"body":"At the intersection of multiple"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3064.022,"endTime":3067.695,"body":"functions coming together"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3067.727,"endTime":3072.0,"body":"to deliver a product, that's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3067.727,"endTime":3072.0,"body":"where our value is the biggest."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3072.075,"endTime":3074.743,"body":"At the rudimentary level, it's"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3072.075,"endTime":3074.743,"body":"multiple engineering teams."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3074.905,"endTime":3077.266,"body":"At the next level is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3074.905,"endTime":3077.266,"body":"engineering and QE."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3077.477,"endTime":3080.576,"body":"At the next level is"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3077.477,"endTime":3080.576,"body":"engineering, QE, DevOps, and,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3080.592,"endTime":3084.543,"body":"and tech docs and so on, like"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3080.592,"endTime":3084.543,"body":"still within the realm of"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3084.572,"endTime":3085.692,"body":"what needs to be delivered."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3085.951,"endTime":3088.828,"body":"Then at the next level, that"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3085.951,"endTime":3088.828,"body":"is cross-functional between"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3088.94,"endTime":3093.269,"body":"what is being delivered from"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3088.94,"endTime":3093.269,"body":"the product organization to the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3093.344,"endTime":3096.746,"body":"people that are beyond like the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3093.344,"endTime":3096.746,"body":"field customer success managers,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3096.755,"endTime":3101.745,"body":"sales engineers customer support"},{"speaker":"Satish 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remaining in, in our hands."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3146.742,"endTime":3149.86,"body":"And for the today's world"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3146.742,"endTime":3149.86,"body":"at the level I talked"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3149.862,"endTime":3152.969,"body":"about in terms of you know,"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3149.862,"endTime":3152.969,"body":"automated live dashboards"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3153.322,"endTime":3155.986,"body":"and then triangulation across"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3153.322,"endTime":3155.986,"body":"multiple tools, using AI"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3156.006,"endTime":3157.495,"body":"tools, this, that, and the"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3156.006,"endTime":3157.495,"body":"other, and get involved in"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3157.496,"endTime":3159.004,"body":"product and problem-solving."},{"speaker":"Satish 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Low","startTime":3201.809,"endTime":3206.869,"body":"sausage is made, and how we"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3201.809,"endTime":3206.869,"body":"can help ensure the delivery"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3206.908,"endTime":3209.916,"body":"of those products in a way that"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3206.908,"endTime":3209.916,"body":"is meaningful and impactful."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3210.026,"endTime":3212.365,"body":"Satish, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3210.026,"endTime":3212.365,"body":"spending the time with me today."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3212.403,"endTime":3213.194,"body":"It's been a lot of fun."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3213.246,"endTime":3215.825,"body":"For folks who are enjoying"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3213.246,"endTime":3215.825,"body":"what you have to say,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3215.843,"endTime":3217.691,"body":"where can people go to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3215.843,"endTime":3217.691,"body":"learn more about you?"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3218.005,"endTime":3219.775,"body":"Oh, just"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3218.005,"endTime":3219.775,"body":"look me up on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3220.071,"endTime":3221.129,"body":"Again,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3220.071,"endTime":3221.129,"body":"thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3221.411,"endTime":3223.762,"body":"I enjoyed my"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3221.411,"endTime":3223.762,"body":"conversation with you, Galen."},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3223.774,"endTime":3225.019,"body":"Thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Satish Menon","startTime":3223.774,"endTime":3225.019,"body":"for the opportunity."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3225.275,"endTime":3225.77,"body":"All right, folks."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3225.778,"endTime":3228.94,"body":"That's it for this episode of"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3225.778,"endTime":3228.94,"body":"Digital Project Manager Podcast."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3229.024,"endTime":3230.746,"body":"If you enjoyed this"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3229.024,"endTime":3230.746,"body":"conversation, make sure to"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3230.747,"endTime":3232.733,"body":"subscribe wherever you're"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3230.747,"endTime":3232.733,"body":"listening, and if you want"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3232.735,"endTime":3235.163,"body":"even more tactical insights,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3232.735,"endTime":3235.163,"body":"case studies, and playbooks,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3235.379,"endTime":3238.511,"body":"create a free account with us"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3235.379,"endTime":3238.511,"body":"at thedigitalprojectmanager.com."},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3238.672,"endTime":3240.181,"body":"Until next time,"},{"speaker":"Galen Low","startTime":3238.672,"endTime":3240.181,"body":"thanks for listening."}]}