The Digital Project Manager

The Retro: How to Transition into a Project Management Role

• Galen Low and Kelsey Alpaio

Share episode

Breaking into project management can feel overwhelming, but the biggest challenge isn’t lack of experience—it’s learning to translate your skills effectively.

In this episode, host Kelsey Alpaio speaks with Ogaga Johnson, founder and CEO of Verisult, about how professionals can position themselves for their first PM role. Ogaga emphasizes the importance of a strategic job search, focusing on industries where your background provides a natural entry point. Whether you’re transitioning careers or formalizing your PM skills, this episode provides actionable steps to land your first role.

Resources from this episode:

Kelsey Alpaio:

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Digital Project Manager podcast. I'm Kelsey Alpaio, and today we're tackling a big topic—how do you land your first project manager role? Maybe you've been unofficially managing projects for a while and you're ready to make it official, or maybe you're pivoting from another career and wondering, how do I actually convince hiring managers that I have what it takes? We're breaking it all down, what skills you actually need, how to position yourself on your resume and in interviews, and what challenges you might face along the way. And thankfully, we've got an incredible guest with us here today to help us navigate it all. Ogaga Johnson, founder and CEO of Verisult, a training and consulting firm that helps people break into in-demand careers like project management. Ogaga, welcome to the show!

Ogaga Johnson:

Thank you so much Kelsey. I'm excited to be here.

Kelsey Alpaio:

So why don't you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and the work that you do.

Ogaga Johnson:

Yeah. So like you already mentioned, thank you for that introduction. I'm Ogaga Johnson and passionately at the core of all that I do at my team. All that we do at Verisult is about people building and empowerment. One of the core things we do is we help career professionals, especially immigrants, to kickstart and thrive in their careers. Now, not just any career, but we're focusing on the in-demand careers because those are careers that are projected to have a massive. In terms of need, in terms of people to work. So we are helping to tackle the labor shortage basically, and ensure that we build and equip people to take up this in demand roles that are upcoming. And some are right here, right now.

Kelsey Alpaio:

Awesome. Let's get right into it. What do you think is the hardest part about finding and landing that first project management role or title?

Ogaga Johnson:

Just working with over thousands of people who want to move into the project management role across like the UK, Canada, and the US. One of the most common things I've seen is literally even having interviews. Because if you are not able to speak to a hiring manager or to really, communicate your value, you won't have the opportunity to even get to an offer stage. So that process of being able to translate their skills, their experiences, to speak to the value they have and can offer for project management roles is the biggest. Huddle that I see lots of people fix, especially folks who want to transition that. I haven't gotten the official projects management title ever. I wanna move. That is always the struggle. How can I translate what I currently do or my experiences to this role that I know I can do, but may not necessarily have had the title for it?

Kelsey Alpaio:

So what are some of those skills that you should have and that you should highlight on your resume in order to get those interviews if you're applying for your first project manager role?

Ogaga Johnson:

I would say the first thing is to understand each individual different. We are all unique. We have unique experiences, unique backgrounds. Some of us may have the same education, when you go to university, we don't take in the same thing in those classes, right? So we all have unique makeup. So first is to understand what is the value that I will bring to the project management space. There's no point. We have this slogan that we play around with at various our people, like we say, oh, don't mesh in. Go your resume. Throw it everywhere. Be strategic. What is my unique value proposition? We do it a lot, in business, in marketing, in business. And what's your business unique value proposition. The same thing with career. In career. You are selling your skills and services. So think of it like a business. So what is the unique value proposition that will set you apart from every other person? Millions of people who are looking for the same project management role? So that's the first thing. So for example, someone may say, oh, I've been working in the event planning space for a while now. But technically that's project management. Okay. Maybe what you can do is transition into a project manager or project coordinator role within the event space, whether it's a not-for-profit, because not-for-profits do a lot of events. Or it could even be in terms of a big organization, maybe in their marketing, because they do lots of marketing events. But look at what is my unique proposition? Where do I have so much valued experience, industry experience? And because of that, what industry can I easily transition into to get into project management? That may not be your dream role.'cause someone may say, Hey, I'm looking to lead the event space, please. But that is a way to start because how you start doesn't mean that's how you'll finish, but that's a way to start. And from there, you start building up to become a project management expert and then you can move forward. So that's the first thing. Understand what your value proposition is, what's industry you should target because of your value proposition that you've identified. And the next thing is that every job is different. You can't be using the same resume for every single job. I know this is the thing No job seeker wants to hear. In fact, they always ask me for the shortcut. No job seeker wants to hear this, but that's the truth because I hire lots of project managers, for different organizations and form organization as well. And one thing I look at is, hey, whose resume proves that they can do the work I want them to do. Those are the people I invite for interviews. So even if your grades, I don't know you, so I can't tell your grades if your resume doesn't point that you are great. Not just in terms of grade generally, but grades to meet that pain points that I have or that value that I need this resource to come and deliver within the organization. So you need to tailor your resume. You need to know, understand how to read job descriptions. Highlight, what is this thing? This company really wants the person that they're going to hire to have, what value do they want this person to give and align your value to show that you are the person that can deliver that value in your resume. So those are the two main things that I would say align your resume for every job. First of all, understand the value you have.'cause if I see risk, a job add, and I realize that I don't really have that value, right? Not because I cannot have that value, but right now, that's where my value proposition, maybe that's not a job I should apply to because that's a waste of my time. And it's a lot of emotional stress when you get so much rejections, right? So understand your value proposition apply to roles that align with it. Those two tips are my top.

Kelsey Alpaio:

Yeah. You mentioned a little bit that there might be certain industries or types of project management that are easier to break into. What are some of those industries that folks should look into if they are trying to land that first role?

Ogaga Johnson:

That's a very good question because, some people may not necessarily be an expert in one industry, there's no real like level playing field there. I will say that right now we're seeing an increase depending on the country you're in as well. But in Canada, we're seeing an increase in the not-for-profit associations. That is one thing that I've noticed recently. And these associations are looking for capacity in terms of they need capacity. And there most of these organizations do projects, different types of projects, and they need people with project management skills. Even if the title may not be project coordinator or project manager, they need people with those skills. So that's a good industry to target. Obviously, not-for-profit wouldn't pay as high as for some, not all. Some not-for-profits, won't pay as high as for profit organizations, but the amount of experience you're likely to gain from there, a one year experience could be an equivalent to a two years experience somewhere else. So that's a good place as well. And also we have so much up and coming tech companies, tech startups with the whole innovation, the technologies ever changing. Those organizations start with as well, because startups need people to grow. And to scale whatever product they have. So if you can showcase your value to a founder or to people who are executives within an organization, you are more likely to get a trial and then prove yourself in those organizations. So two main industries or sectors that I would point to.

Kelsey Alpaio:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so you did talk a little bit about understanding your value and making sure that's evident on your resume and in interviews. But are there core skills? Are there tools, methodologies that like every person who is applying for a PM role needs to have to even be considered. What are some of those skills that if you don't have at this moment, like you need to start building ASAP?

Ogaga Johnson:

Absolutely. They are core skills, in fact, project management in terms of, so we know we have the Global Project Management Institute, we have some other bodies that we like, say, regulate projects management, if I should say that word. And they've even made those things easy when you talk about the principles or the processes that every PM. Might in their lifetime have to go through of, okay, so for example, I think at the core and the basic side, because we have AI that does some of the technical things, the day-to-day administrative tasks that project managers could do. But one thing AI wouldn't do is effectively understand how to communicate to people. Because individuals, people, we change. Every single day, our mood changes. Our emotions change, right? So one thing is, how do I communicate communication? PMs communicate over 90% of the time, we are always communicating. So how to effectively communicate is key. And communication also ties to stakeholder management. In project management, you're working a lot with people. You're trying to influence people to get things done. So building your capacity or your skillset to relate with people, great interpersonal skills, to relate with people, to negotiate with people, even if you don't call, use the word negotiation, but when you're trying to get. You know your team member, this is a task that you're meant to do, and this is when you're meant to do it and trying to get them to do it. You are literally negotiating and you are influencing them. So understand how to build relationships. Those are some of the core things. So stakeholder engagement, communication skills are core skills. And then just the fundamentals of how to deliver a project. Whether it's from the planning to how to execute, to how to ensure that it's going according to track and if it's not bringing it back to track. Those are some of the core skills, regardless of the methodology you're using, whether it's waterfall, it's agile, or it's hybrid, right? Understanding just the fundamentals of how to take an idea. And bring it to life is the core. I think if you don't have that, that is project management in summary. So that's the core thing you know you should have. And then obviously implementing with the people skills.

Kelsey Alpaio:

We talk about accidental project managers all the time. People who are already managing projects in their day-to-day work, but don't have that project manager title. I'm wondering like how much of this transition into a formal project management role is about confidence, like having the confidence to call yourself a project manager and really owning your experience.

Ogaga Johnson:

So first of all, I believe that everyone has product management skills. So that is my own idea, and that's because if you have been working a job, I don't wanna give a number of years, but let me just say, okay, for at least two to three years. You probably have done something project management related because every organization has to do projects because of change, because of innovation, because of improvements. So you most likely have been part of a project, especially if you worked in the Covid era, you have been part of a project because there were things that companies had to do to ensure people could work from home. That was a project.'cause once they had done it, the next thing was it was done. The only thing else they could do, and that was maybe improve the process. And that's also project management. So I truly believe that everyone has project management skills if you have worked at least for above two years. I always advise lots of people that I speak to identify their project management experience. Are there a set of activities that you did to bring in a change or a specific result? That was finite in terms of how the start time at an end time was, is not necessarily operations. And when I say that, they realize, oh yeah, there's a time that, we had to improve it. Part circle of audits, audit came back that this was. We need, you set one control or the other, and then we, I was part of the team. Even if I didn't lead the team, I was part of the team. I'm like, yeah, that is you being part of a project. Once you can, once people can identify the skills, I feel like transitioning to project management will be a lot less hard, and that is where the confidence will come in. Because when I speak to lots of people, the reason why they're not confident is because they feel imposter syndrome. Do I really know how to do this?'cause I'm transitioning, can I really call myself, a project coordinator or a project manager? But I'm like, if you have done it, you can. So I will tell you that the number one struggle I have in my students is mindsets. So I do a lot of mindset reshaping that, hey, if you're not confident about the skill that you're doing an interview for. I hiring manager, how do you want me to be confident in you if you're not confident in yourself, and I can smell it from a mile away when I'm doing those interviews. So first of all, you have to understand that what you have, especially if you've done some upskilling, you know you have worked on yourself, or you have identified your belief that you have that value. So you have identified your program mentor experience your skills, you know your value proposition, it's yours, so believe it. If worst case scenario, have a brag sheet. You have, this is what I've done in project and use because facts beat Inpost syndrome every time because you can't lie to fact, this is the fact I was able to deliver this process improvement project. It's a fact. So have those stories of what you have done and when you have those stories, you can always go back to those stories and interviews. Then your recounting experiences, and that makes you more confident because you have actually done it. But confidence is a huge part of success in transitioning. If you don't believe that you can, others most likely will believe that you can't.

Kelsey Alpaio:

Yeah, I love the idea of facts will always win out over imposter syndrome. Really having those facts down, really keeping track of the things that you've succeeded and you've actually done, and letting that lead the way when you're looking for one of these roles. I love that piece. So what are some of the biggest mistakes people making when trying to land their first PM title?

Ogaga Johnson:

I will say, maybe I'll mention two things. The first thing is quick apply. Sometimes I want to remove that feature from every job platform 'cause I might don't do that quick apply whether I'm not gonna mention any platform, but they all have it almost on all the platforms. Quick apply doesn't work. Most times, no matter how tailored your resume is to a particular industry, because someone may say, oh, I'm only applying to Project One Minerals in healthcare. So it's the same lingo. It's the same thing every company's asking for. Yes. But someone else who has really gone through the job ad and realized that yes, this is normal healthcare, but one key thing they're looking for here is someone who understands process improvement. That is one of the key things that will be an asset for this role. And then tailors their role to showcase their process improvement will most likely get an interview over you. That I've done a generic standard one.'cause I tell you, 90% of others have done the same thing. So what's that 10% that will make you stand out? So that is one thing. Quick apply machine gardening. Don't do that. Tailor your resume. It's painful. But there are different apps that help now in terms of AI apps that help now. So leverage AI to do it, but ensure obviously that whatever you use AI to do, you fact check it and you edit it yourself as well. That's number one thing. The second thing is very similar to what I'd said before, not understanding the value because you apply to, when I see these things on, social media platforms, I'm like, so I'm not meant to be praise you. Or something like, oh, applied to 1000 jobs, landed five interviews. Go to one job offer. I'm like, that is bad to receive 900 and something rejections that is bad for mental health, that is bad for, evil self-esteem. That is that is not a good way to job search. So the mistake I see a lot of people doing is just applying to every and any kind of job. No. First of all, understand the value that you have in your career path. It may not be your dream role, but that's your ideal role right now to get in and give you a foot in the door. Then you can start improving yourself. What is it? And then focus your energy. Because when you're doing job applications, lots of energy is expended. So you want to ensure that you are making the most of your energy. So focus your energy on the job set strategy that you have developed for yourself. So have a job set strategy. Not having a job set strategy and just applying doesn't make sense. Every business has a strategy. Every business. I wish lots of people know can just change their mindset that their career is their business. It's a business because you are selling skills and that's why they pay you for it. So treat it like a business and you start see that your mindsets are changing the way you do things, right? And that's where the idea of entrepreneurship comes into the career space and it's so important to get ahead. You have to think like an entrepreneur in career.

Kelsey Alpaio:

You talked a little bit about rejection in there. It sounds like that's a big element of this process, like you're going to get a lot of rejections even if you are. Time applying to the right things like rejection is inevitable. How do you recommend people deal with that rejection and bounce back after getting No after no, after no?

Ogaga Johnson:

I think you've already said it in a way. Realize rejections will come. So just get your mindset on that. And it's not negative thinking. Rejections will come because to be honest, there are lots of people looking for a job. You're not the only one. So rejections will come. Just settle your mind that I've done my best. So in terms of applied well for it, I've looked at it, tailored my resume, I've showcased my value. That's what you can control. You can't control someone deciding that, Hey, I like what this person wrote. I like it like their profile, and I want to call you. So don't focus on what you can control. Focus on what you can control, and the role will come eventually. And just realize that because you can't control that aspect, there'll be some negative outcomes like rejection. So once you've set your mind on that, okay, I did my best, but this didn't come through perfect, that's not for me, and just move on. That's the one thing I always tell people basically.

Kelsey Alpaio:

Yeah. I love that. I have just one last question for you to wrap things up here. If someone listening wants to start working toward their first PM role today, what's one thing they can do like right now or this week to move forward in that direction?

Ogaga Johnson:

I will probably advise to do a career mapping or skill gap exercise 'cause you can do that right now. And the reason for that is just to identify, do I have existing project management experience within my life experience, even if it's volunteering, because it's not only paid work that can give you that experience. When I set off my career in project management, it was true volunteering in my local church then as a youth coordinator. I use because that is so much experience for project management, dealing with people, getting people to get stuff done, actually getting volunteers to get stuff done. That is the hardest thing you can ever get. Now, someone who is paid to get stuff done, you can literally say, guy, you are paid. Girl, you're paid, do it, but volunteers. That is harder. So I got to know how I got a lot of influencing skills from that experience and negotiation skills as well. So first, just a skill audit. What experience do I have that fits project management? If there's none, fine creates that experience or find that experience. And then what skills do I have that are transferable from where I am now that I can transfer to project funding because they're similar. So it's career mapping slash skill audits is the first thing.'cause you need to have direction. You don't have direction, you go anywhere. But if you have direction, you most likely get to your destination.

Kelsey Alpaio:

Ogaga, thanks so much for joining us today. This has been so helpful.

Ogaga Johnson:

Thank you so much. I enjoyed myself. Thank you for the questions and being here. I'm grateful.

Kelsey Alpaio:

That's it for today's Retro. Be sure to follow the show so you never miss an episode. And if you wanna keep the conversation going with a crew of a thousand plus project management pros who get it, come join us at thedpm.com/membership. Thanks for listening!