The Amaiz Podcast - Tom Ball talks Remote Working

"Covid is ten years' worth of change in one year."
Tom Ball from desklodge.com joins us for catch up on the extraordinary changes 2020 brought to 'flexible working' - as Tom says, that's when you're free to work anywhere. 

The past year has posed huge issues for businesses large and small, employees and freelancers. Tom talks through the importance of recognising the different experiences of remote workers, how an appreciation of rhythm and culture is critical, and why we need to develop the conversation around mental health.

Right now, we all need to take care of our ergonomics, but what does the future hold?  Achieving balance, Tom says, and expect a role for virtual reality too... 

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Jake Shaw, Tom Ball

SUMMARY

Tom talks about the change in office space and the future of hybrid working practices.

Jake Shaw  00:01

Hello and welcome to the Amaiz podcast where we talk to businesses large and small, experts in subjects across a spectrum of business, entrepreneurialism tech, innovation, investment and finance. I’m Jake Shaw, your host. If you'd like to learn more about Amaiz, please go to www.amaiz.com.

Jake Shaw  00:23

Hello, and I'm joined today by Tom Ball of Desk Lodge. Hello, Tom, how are you?

Tom Ball  00:28

Hi, Jake, very good to be here.

Jake Shaw  00:29

You're there. I'm here. So this represents the subject on which we are going to discuss which is remote working. Tom, could you tell me a little bit about what Desk Lodge is and what it does. 

Tom Ball  00:41

So Desk Lodge is a small network of Co-working spaces in Bristol and Basingstoke its about trying to create an environment that supports different people working in different ways 

Jake Shaw  00:51

We've lived through or we're just about to go into a another COVID lockdown, how has the lockdown affected remote working in office space in general, in your view,

Tom Ball  01:01

COVIDs like 10 years worth of change in one year, it hasn't reinvented the wheel so much as the trends that are already happening have just been accelerated. The idea of daily commuting to go to the same office every day to send emails is crazy. 

Jake Shaw  01:14

A lot of people have talked about this concept of remote working and I just want to take it from somebody who whose business is in providing facilities for remote working, please define what remote working actually means.

Tom Ball  01:29

I dislike the term remote working. I prefer flexible working, just because remote is always telling you what the answer is where flexible gives you permission. True flexible working means that you'll be free to work anywhere.

Jake Shaw  01:42

How does an individual successfully flexible work remote work, I know you dislike the phrase,

Tom Ball  01:49

It's really important to have other people around you. And it's really important to have different zones available to you so that you can go into a quiet space, you're going to make phone calls somewhere that's private Poppins coffee shops works well for me for about an hour just to break up a day. So if I'm writing a document, I'll be somewhere different to home then reviewing the same document.

Jake Shaw  02:05

That's very, very interesting. Because my next question is, what is the future for co working spaces and office spaces post COVID. In your view?

Tom Ball  02:16

This decision is probably one of the most important culturally, demand for commercial property for office space will go down overall 96% of office space is traditional five year 10-year leases and a lot of people are wondering why they've got a big office, I've met somebody who lived in Denmark, but then had business in London and in Scotland. So we don't need to do five days a week nine to five. There's lots of lots of different rhythms.

Jake Shaw  02:40

I really love what you're saying about the rhythms and the cultures, I worked as a sales guy, so I used to use my laptop. But there's another aspect we have to think about because a lot of companies because of lockdown have gone straight into the remote working sending everybody home if they can, there's a security issue isn't there because people are now logging in, on personal computers through consumer Wi Fi, which can be hacked and things like that,

Tom Ball  03:04

That problem needs dealing with, I won't pretend to be a security expert, I don't think it's a problem that you can avoid. When I see people do things really securely, you realise that actually the least secure because they made it so secure that everyone's had to write down their passwords or the carrying things around on a USB stick to get around the firewalls.

Jake Shaw  03:22

You're going to go and talk to me about VR.

Tom Ball  03:24

So if we decide we're having a board meeting every month, then the idea of us travelling to be in the same place every month. seems crazy, but I don't think VR every month would work either. So you might do VR two out of three, once a quarter, you come together but once a year, you do a proper overnight off site. And again, it makes sense to me that rather than dragging people into say London for a monthly meeting, you can get away with that. But you're trying to balance those two things.

Jake Shaw  03:48

He raised a point earlier about culture could accompany support somebody who finds the whole remote working a bit difficult.

Tom Ball  03:56

The best companies were saying or doing a range of different things. And it's a mix of video and voice. So some people find voiceovers easier than video, just finding different ways to connect people. And I think mental health is making sure that mental health is a topic that is on the table. We're just very clear about the fact these are tough times people are having very different experiences if you have young kids versus no kids if you're furloughed versus not furloughed. The different experiences that people having during lockdown are incredibly varied. There is a there's a value in not so much in the commute, but having a transition between being at home or being at work. And if you're not careful, I've often end up in this grey zone where from seven in the morning to 11 at night. I'm never quite at work but never quite at home. I taught somebody who they walk for half an hour every morning and every evening. So they literally leave the flat, go for a 30 minute walk but they're having that transition and they make phone calls or listen to audiobooks is working really well for them in the mental health and they're finding it they're finding a lot more robust to do that rather than literally be locked in a room the whole time.

Jake Shaw  04:53

I think that's absolutely brilliant idea. I mean I'm in rural Somerset so my virtual commute is taking the dog for a walk in the morning through the woods, having that transition from one state to another is really powerful. I love your idea about people accessing workspaces like yours, and then hot desking the rest of the week. Yeah, it's an interesting one, the transition piece is very important.

Tom Ball  05:14

I think that there's this other risk as well. It's a lot of overgeneralize. There's a lot of decision makers who are got lovely houses lovely gardens, a beautiful home office above the garage. They've been overstimulated and like pestered by, by everybody for years. So going, actually, this work from home things lovely, and I'm really enjoying it. And I think they've got to be quite respectful about the fact that the different staff having different experiences, if you're, if you're locked in a small flat with young kids, it can be very hard to escape. If you're if there's four of you in a in a flat share. And you're literally sat on your bed for days at a time. It's a very different experience. So it's trying to, again, I've got into office space, because I don't believe in office space. I don't I don't think I go to the office every day. But I also don't think that working home all the time works for everybody. And I think it's too easy to assume that everyone has the same experiences and the same opinions and needs that you do.

Jake Shaw  06:06

Thinking about that, there are some jobs that can't be remoted, people need to go to work, they need to be at a location. Right now there's a team of builders sealing a floor for me, they can't exactly work remotely to do that job. So you touched upon it before you know the people's different experiences and respecting that. So how do you deal with that where you've got some people who are remote, some people who are not, how do you square that?

Tom Ball  06:30

If you're a daily commuter, then you not daily commuting is great for you. But it's also brilliant for everybody else, because the people when you do have to go on the train, if there's often a people on the train every everybody's happier a pro social thing. Yeah, the parts office thing is the idea of having an office that is one or two days a week, everybody can actually be in the same room and have that time. And even if they're not all there, most of them are there. But then the other days, then they're not in the office. And I think there's a benefit to that it's more democratic in a way the people that are nearby that are coming in, haven't got their own special corner and VIP and kind of in the office, but they're actually in a co working space shared with other people. And then we're encouraging people that if you've got staff who live far away, get them memberships or co working spaces where they can be near their home when they need to. So you can be you can be fair, and you can give people different options without having to shoehorn them into the same thing. You see whether the presenteeism that some people are, are seem to be respected. Because they're in lots of some people a century less is better, because they're not.

Jake Shaw  07:34

Finally, what do you think, are the top tips that you could give? I mean, you can say, come and book with desk launch, if you wish. What do you think the top couple of tips for people to successfully transition into the future with a bit of remote working a bit of present working in office?

Tom Ball  07:52

Number one, if you're working at home, get a decent office chair, in so many people that work on the sofa, work on a dining chair, etc. Your back is worth more than that, get yourself a decent chair close behind that for me as a second screen on a gas lift, you can adjust the angle, adjust it, so just respect the ergonomics. And I've grown up by my thinking about that. But you shouldn't be spending 8-10 hours a day and not giving yourself a decent place to do it. Try a co working space if you haven't got coke space near you a coffee shop, but just try it. And I don't think these things are binary. I think it's about rhythms. And I think there's two different rhythms. There's what rhythm works for you as an individual what rhythm works for you as a team, possibly a third one of what works use a company because you've got to have all those different levels of connection. And I think mental health will be the big one. Think about your own. And actually if you think about other people's that helps you think about your own so checking in with other people worrying about them will help you check in with yourself. Having done this for 20 years just trying to not be in the same place all the time.

Jake Shaw  08:49

That's excellent advice. Tom Ball, of Desk Lodge. Where do people find you Tom, its desklodge.com?

Tom Ball  08:54

desklodge.com, come and have a couple of free days. We are obsessing about how to make space more enjoyable, more productive. If you have no intention of ever coming and being a member but wanted to come and nick ideas. You'd be equally welcome. We're very happy.

Jake Shaw  09:07

Tom Ball of desklodge.com, thank you very much. 

Tom Ball  09:10

Cheers.

Jake Shaw  09:12

Thank you for listening. If you'd like to hear more podcasts like this, please go to www.amaiz.com and don't forget to like and share this podcast.