FINDING GOD ON PARK STREET

Nevin George: Seeing God in All Things

• Grace Klise, STM Assistant Chaplain • Season 1 • Episode 2

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In today’s episode, we're sitting down with Nevin George, a recent Yale College graduate, Class of 2023, who's now serving in a maximum-security prison in Northern California with Jesuit Volunteer Corps, or JVC. His journey there is marked by faith and fortitude, as host, Grace Klise, and co-host, Mary Margaret Schroeder ’24, discover in this conversation. Listen in as he shares his passion for math and music, as well as his experiences as a member of the Yale Symphony Orchestra, a volunteer with Math Counts Outreach, and a pilgrim at the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico City. 
 
 But, Nevin’s post-graduate plans were not always clear, as he recounts in this episode. Amidst the rigors and pressures of life at Yale, Nevin found a community to remind him that God’s plans are often better than our own. This episode will leave you with a sense of awe and curiosity about finding God in everyday life, as Nevin did throughout his time at Yale and continues to try to do today. Tune in for a conversation that's sure to stir your soul and inspire your heart.

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Grace Klise:

Thanks for listening to Finding God on Park Street, a podcast from Saint Thomas More, Yale's Catholic Chapel and Center. I'm your host, Grace Klise, joined today by Mary Margaret Schroeder as my student co-host. We all know that Yale alumni are impressive, but today's guest, a recent Yale College graduate from the class of 2023, is impressive for reasons that aren't your typical ones. Nevin George from Silliman College, who majored in math and computer science, joins us to talk about how he, a self-described math and music nerd, found his way to postgraduate service with Jesuit Volunteer Corps, or JVC. Although he did not know his exact JVC placement at the time of recording, which was around commencement in May, Nevin is working this year in a maximum security prison in Northern California. If you told him a year ago that this is what he would now be doing, he would have thought you were crazy, but God's ways are not our own, and Nevin is a witness of that. Let's dive in.

Mary Margaret Schroeder:

So, Nevin, throughout your time at Yale I know you've been involved in a whole range of different clubs and activities. Can you tell us a little bit about the types of things you've done at Yale and what those communities have meant to you?

Nevin George:

Yeah, I joined a lot of clubs my freshman year, but the ones that really stuck were, first of all, Yale Symphony Orchestra. That's been by far my biggest extracurricular at Yale. And then Math Counts Outreach. So maybe I can just say a bit about Math Counts Outreach first. So it's a service program I'm a part of, where we go out into different middle schools and teach classes on math to these kids, and a lot of these kids come from underprivileged backgrounds, so it's great working with them. It's a good teaching experience for me. I want to go into teaching in the future, so really enjoy my time with that. And then YSL. YSL has been such a blast and I'm so sad that it's all coming to an end. We just had our last concert this past Friday, Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. It was amazing when I was on stage that last time I thought I was going to cry. But yeah, so many memories.

Grace Klise:

So music and math, it seems like, are two loves. Have they always been things that you have enjoyed?

Nevin George:

Yeah, 100%. That was my entire college application to Yale, actually just math and music. I mean, growing up I would do math competitions and then I would also have, my mom would always be driving me to my private lessons wherever they were. So it was always that duality, and then exploring other things, like my faith, I guess.

Mary Margaret Schroeder:

That's cool. And through your Adoration reflection that you gave a couple weeks ago, you talked a little bit about that: being in high school and being involved in those types of things and then finding God in there. Can you tell us a little bit about what you shared with us in the chapel a few weeks back?

Nevin George:

In preparing for that reflection, I was mostly trying to capture into words what God meant to me and what my relationship with God is. Predominantly the reason why I grew in my faith significantly over the past two years was just the sense of gratitude and realizing how much God has done for me, how he's gotten me through really tough times of my life, and just realizing without God I would not have gotten through those moments. And once you realize that you start to see God in so many more things other than just the suffering. So I saw him in a lot of the joys and it's just trying to remember God at all points of the day.

Nevin George:

It takes a lot of active effort, but that's what God means to me. It's a presence that's always there and always looking out for me. Grace told me this earlier this semester but God will not abandon you in the midst of your suffering. That concept has helped me a lot. So that's what I focused on mostly, just that sense of gratitude that God has filled me with and we should all have. God has done so much for every person. It's something that anyone can obtain the sense of just feeling that we're nothing without God.

Grace Klise:

Your reflection a couple of weeks ago, Nevin, was really beautiful, and I think it challenged all of us to think about the ways in which God is at work in maybe the areas of life that we don't first see him in. And for you, with music and math, how do you see God at work in those? I know this spring you went with YSO to Mexico and you were able to incorporate faith and have a pilgrimage experience of sorts. But how, in especially your time at Yale, have you seen God as part of your passions for math and or music?

Nevin George:

Yeah, whenever you're doing something you love, God is present there. God wants us all to be happy. That's one of the core aspects of what it means to be a Christian, just Christian joy. And when I'm pursuing my passions, when I'm playing timpani and Beethoven 9, I'm just like I get such a rush that God is fully present there. And especially being in a group like YSO or in Math Counts Outreach, you can't be in that group without feeling this overwhelming sense of community.

Nevin George:

And I'm in the percussion section and I had the privilege of leading this percussion section the past year. The rest of the percussionists are all underclassmen, so I had to take a leadership role in that. But just watching our section grow over the course of the year was a real blessing and we really, really bonded and had so many fun times in Mexico. They all came to the Adoration reflection as well, which is really nice. Even though none of them are religious, we all support each other and I really view that group as like my Froco group, that like this group of kids where, like I would do anything for them, and like feel really proud to be in the section with them.

Mary Margaret Schroeder:

And can you tell us a bit about your pilgrimage to Guadalupe and what that was like during your trip to Mexico?

Nevin George:

Yeah, it's surreal. I never gone to a big pilgrimage site like that before. I went at a random time, random Monday afternoon, and it was completely packed. I was shocked. They have a Mass every hour from I think it was like 6 am to 8 pm, every single hour, and the Mass I went to was still completely packed.

Nevin George:

They remodeled the main building, I don't know how recently, but fairly recently, and it's beautiful. The lights are so beautiful up on the ceiling, the ceiling is so high and it's really easy to feel God's presence in those moments. This iconic thing that people do when they go there, where they get on their knees all the way to the front of the space. Just seeing people do that just to complete show of humility and deference to God. And there's so many people there, but there is definitely like a sense of our nothingness compared to God when you look at this massive space filled with all these people, and outside of the shrine there's plenty of other, like, there are these beautiful gardens and you can go up on top of a hill and there are many other chapels. So overall, great experience.

Grace Klise:

What was it like seeing the tilma of Our Lady of Guadalupe?

Nevin George:

So there's a whole story behind it and I was really trying to focus in on that story when I was looking at the tilma and, like, the story of Juan Diego and everything that means to like the indigenous people of Mexico. I don't think seeing the tilma was the most important spiritual aspect of the journey for me, but I think there was so much you can learn just hearing the story and like the faith that inspired that object to be such a big, powerful symbol in the first place. I think that's the most beautiful part of it and how much it meant to indigenous people. That was the most beautiful part.

Mary Margaret Schroeder:

That's great. So I know that you find God very strongly in music and in math, and it's cool that even through your trip with YSO, you're able to go on this awesome pilgrimage. What are some other ways that you're able to incorporate your faith into your day- to- day? Are there other prayer practices that you really enjoy or other ways that you find God as a student here at Yale, walking around this campus doing all your things?

Nevin George:

Yeah, one of the main ways is in my suite. I'm in a suite of seven guys, so it's a pretty wild, but it is religious suite, so people of many different denominations. So we have a Muslim, we have a Hindu, we have two Protestants and then we have a Jew and we have an atheist. And I always say that the atheist is the most religious person in the suite because he's such an amazing person, so humble, so joyful, all the time, constantly inspired by his example, but we always have the best conversations. My suitemate Shayan, he's a Muslim.

Nevin George:

We've been a suite mate since freshman year and we've had so many late night conversations that I've learned a lot about Islam through him, and talking to people from different faiths has definitely increased my appreciation of my own faith and allowed me to adopt practices from their religions as well. For example, in Ramadan, they fast 40 days. That's insane for me to think. Every single day, Shayan was waking up around 4am and I'm just imagining myself to if I had to do that, especially like maybe during final season or no matter what's going on in your life, you have to wake up at 4am to fast as a Muslim during Ramadan. And that's just so beautiful, mate, because God takes precedence over everything.

Nevin George:

So there's a lot I've learned from their example, and as far as other daily spiritual practices, I've kept to the like, a relatively same prayer routine for a couple years now. I'll pray in the morning, pray in the night. But I think more recently I've been trying to just be open to the fact of God infiltrating my mind. So if when I'm walking around I just try to let maybe a passing thought come to me that's more religiously oriented where it's, maybe I'll see something I would say, oh, thank you, God for that, oh, that's so beautiful. Or, oh, I'll pray for this person. Just maybe just one sentence, just reminders of God throughout the day which I think, just trying to maintain that relationship I've got, so it's not just in the morning once or at night once, but just throughout the day, just periodically, so you're not losing that connection with God, has been more important for me recently.

Grace Klise:

And we see you around STM a lot too which you have said that college has been a real time of growth in your faith. I think living in a suite with people of all different faith practices and backgrounds I'm sure has inspired you to learn more about your own faith in and through those conversations. So what at STM have you been involved in? And, as you're looking back on your time at Yale, are there certain experiences or programs or events that have really impacted you and that you'll carry with you as you begin the next chapter?

Nevin George:

Yeah, so I was part of the undergraduate council for one or two years and that was a good experience for me to be just a part of the community, gain more friends in STM. I think those are the main things I got out of being in UGC. But beyond that, I'm a reader at the 5pm Mass and I've always wanted to take a more active role at Mass as a musician. I thought the standard way for me to do that was to be a part of the music ministry, but I play a drum set and drum set is the main way for percussionists to be a part of the music ministry. I do mostly orchestral percussion, like, yeah, I can play a tambourine on the side, but I really appreciated doing the readings. I really enjoy that and I tried to put effort into preparing those just so I can be a more active member at Mass. I think that's important and that's definitely helped grow my faith. Just being more serious about things yeah, like at Mass recently I've tried to dress up more for Mass and when we have responses, to try to say my responses a bit more loudly. Just small things like that, and try to take that into wherever I go in the future. And other things.

Nevin George:

At STM, I was really lucky to be able to go on the ASB trip to San Francisco last spring break. That was a great experience and that was one of my big, more service-oriented things that I've done at Yale. As far as STM, that was an experience for me talking to people from very different backgrounds, and we went to this Catholic Worker House and we heard the story of this one immigrant who had traveled from crossing the border to get to San Francisco in all of her struggles, this all just made me realize that there are people who are suffering so much in this world that I want to attune my ears more towards them. That's definitely shaped what I want to do in the future in significant ways. I've always only ever done math and music, as I said, but now I'm trying to be more open to other ways that I can have my impact as well.

Mary Margaret Schroeder:

Have you found during your time on your alternative spring break trip or ASB trip, different ways to incorporate faith in action and maybe how that might have been influenced by Catholic Social Teaching? I know when you guys were preparing for that trip, that was something that you talked about a lot. I'd love to just hear more about what you learned on that trip and, moving forward, I know you talked about carrying that with you into the future, so maybe you can give us a little hint of the exciting things that you'll be doing post-grad with that.

Nevin George:

Yeah, faith in action. God calls us to serve the poor. If you're practicing Catholic, you are called to not just live for yourself but extend the love that God has given you to others. I was really happy when I was on the ASB trip to be able to do that and hear these people's stories. I've applied to be a part of the Jesuit Volunteer Corps. I'm in the midst of this matching process where I'm doing interviews with different agencies and then I'll determine where I'm actually placed for the next year. I'm super excited.

Nevin George:

Just even a few months ago I didn't think I'd be doing something like this, where it's a very radical change from doing math all the time. Yeah, so I'll be in this intentional community for a year, living with four to eight other people, and it'll be 40 hours a week serving at an agency. I put as my primary interest working with refugees, because the point is I want to first of all continue to increase my social skills, my ability to just talk to people, and grow into an extrovert. In this I want to just become more confident, but then also I want to hear people's stories. That's the main thing. I want to talk to people. I'll learn about people's sufferings. So don't know the specific type of work I'd be doing with the refugees, but yeah, super excited for that.

Grace Klise:

Can you tell us a little bit about your discernment process? I know you were applying to graduate programs and, as you said, JVC was far from the top of the list in terms of things you thought you'd be doing next year, so I'd love to hear more about what that process was like for you and how you've come to this place of joy and excitement about this future.

Nevin George:

Yeah, I think it all comes down to trusting God with all of your heart. So I had applied to a ton of grad schools and I applied for this area called theoretical computer science. So I was going to get a PhD in computer science and this area of theoretical computer science. It's very math heavy. I thought for the longest of times that theoretical computer science was my passion. So I started to get grad school decisions back and they were not going the way that I hoped and it was a tough time this past semester, largely because of that and things like my sense of self-esteem and even, at times, my faith. They were shaken, they were tested and I didn't know what God wanted from me. But I think that this is when God works the most, because I started to realize that I don't think that theoretical computer science is what I should be doing. I realized that theoretical computer science is always something I've found the hardest and to some extent I did think I was doing it out of arrogance, almost, where I just felt like I had to be pushing myself to do this just to achieve the most material success. In my eyes, this is what I thought I could do the best with my abilities if I do something like this, which I think we should all be trying to find the ways where our skills best meet the needs of the world. But I don't think I was coming from a good place. It was coming from more an egocentric place. When I was deciding to do theoretical computer science, I enjoyed the classes I took in theoretical computer science, but I had some really bad experiences doing research in this area and it became very clear to me very soon that this is not something I should be doing for the rest of my life. And once I realized that, I became so happy that I've not enrolled in a PhD program, because always in the back of my mind there was this feeling like would I get through six years of a theoretical computer science program? I had a summer research experience. I could barely get through that. It was three months of just a lot of grinding my head against a wall. It was brutal. So I think definitely dodged a bullet with that. And now I'm trying to find another area that I'm more passionate in. For example, I'm exploring computational biology. Like never would I have thought that I'd be saying the words, like the words biology would be coming out of my mouth. In this context it seems super interesting and a lot of the skills that I gain from doing theory is applicable to this new field and I'm meeting with different postdocs in the next few days to get a research project in this area. But by far the best thing to come out of these past few months is that now I can do JVC.

Nevin George:

JVC has been something I have been thinking about for the past few years. It's been in the back of my mind, but I didn't think it was actually gonna happen. But I think the past few months has just made it very clear this is what God wants me to do. God wants me to take this year to just discover him, to grow as a person. And, yeah, it will also give me more time to figure out what I'm actually interested in, and I'm so overjoyed. Now I feel like this is perfect, exactly like what I need. So, yeah, I'm just super grateful. And over the past few months when I felt that like why is this happening to me? Why is this God's plan? And then just realizing that, yeah, God's plan is way more beautiful than I ever could have realized, and like now, this is where I am and it couldn't be more grateful.

Grace Klise:

Yeah, thanks for your witness Nevin.

Mary Margaret Schroeder:

Are there any specific tips that were especially helpful for you in this discernment process, or different types of prayers you'd go back to or conversations you had that you found helpful during this?

Nevin George:

Yeah, I think the main thing for me is I can be pretty hard on myself sometimes. You always know like trusting God and so on. But whenever my faith wavered, even a little bit, where I would get down and you have that sense of fear, it's like, what's gonna happen with my life? Whenever I had that sense of fear, I'd always be so angry to be like Nevin, like obviously this is for a reason, but I would just wear myself down a lot with that. But, like everyone has fear, plenty of people in the Bible have fear, like Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, he wasn't a happy camper there, like you can experience that suffering, but the whole time still you do have to realize still that yes, you can be fearful, you don't know what's gonna happen, but it is all still part of God's plan and God does love you.

Nevin George:

The whole time you just have to keep affirming yourself. But it wasn't easy and you will suffer in this life. Like suffering's inevitable, but because of God we have, like faith in the resurrection, that we have hope that, like things, we will get through this. And I think one thing that helped was the idea that there's a time for suffering and there's a time for joy and I always kept saying, like this is just my time for suffering, but joy is a coming. And now I feel like I'm in this time for joy. It's just having that hope that that season will come.

Grace Klise:

It's really beautiful and inspiring to see and hear about your openness to God. I felt like I had a window to it as it was happening, and the faith that you are sharing now is the faith that you have been carrying and expressing and holding fast to throughout the last six months when those decisions were coming back and they weren't the ones that you anticipated or hoped for. So I just want to thank you, Nevin, for your witness. It's really inspiring to all of us. I wonder what both of you, as students here at Yale, what you think are some of the challenges to discerning God's call for your lives, when there is immense pressure on this campus to do the hardest thing or the most prestigious thing, and that maybe isn't always exactly what God has willed for your life, or for the next step, the next chapter immediately after Yale. What do you two think: is that hard, and how do you sort through all those different pressures that students at Yale experience?

Mary Margaret Schroeder:

Yeah, that's a great question. I think that it's hard when you have that moment of realization that what you feel in your heart, that you're being called to, is not what, like you said, is going to be the popular option at a place like Yale. The beginning of my time at Yale for my first year and a half I was pre-med and I felt a lot of people being super excited about that and the possibilities that that would have. But I'd say it was the hardest for me when I had that moment of like gosh that's not really what sets my heart on fire and I don't think that that's what I'm being called to do for the rest of my life and trying to navigate after that, like making the switch from a more exciting path in the eyes of people at Yale to something that I still find really exciting because I think it's what God is calling me to.

Mary Margaret Schroeder:

But I think you get some raised eyebrows sometimes. I'm wanting to go into Catholic education. That's definitely very far from what the norm is here, but I'm grateful for places like STM that really affirms that in you and tries to help you find that call that you are feeling from God and act on it and not just push away those feelings because you think that it's not going to be received well from the rest of the world. Because, at the end of the day, if you're doing what God is calling you to, that's the most you can ask for right?

Grace Klise:

And probably having peers like Nevin who have discerned and have decided to follow that, that's still small voice, even amidst the clamor that is on campus pulling you or pushing you in a different direction from where you really ultimately feel called by our God.

Mary Margaret Schroeder:

Yes, 100%.

Nevin George:

It was really hard this past semester when you can be so blinded by material successes, when you're trying to focus on God's call, on God's voice in your life. So in the past few months everything was working out for my suitemates, like God bless. I'm so happy for them. They got into all of their dream colleges, like multiple MITs. In my suite, multiple top medical schools. Everyone was doing just the stereotypical Yalie types of things and I felt that, yes, things weren't working out for me. So in the midst of all that, it can be really easy to get bogged down by material successes. But when you are really focusing in on God's call, I think all of that it starts to go on the wayside. You realize that doing JVC for me is exactly what I needed. Going to MIT is what my suitemate needed, but for me, doing JVC, this is what I've been on this path for a while, this is what I should be doing and I'm much more certain of that.

Grace Klise:

You're ready for a deep dive into Ignatian spirituality?

Nevin George:

Yeah, yeah, I'm excited.

Mary Margaret Schroeder:

So, Nevin, the last question that we like to ask all of our guests on the podcast is where have you been finding God lately?

Nevin George:

This, I guess, ties back into what I was saying before, where you can find God in nothing or you can find God in everything and, being in this podcast, I can try to discover God when I'm just walking to class, I can try to discover God. So you can find God anywhere. So, just trying to be open to that and God's ever constant presence, you can view everything in life as a miracle if you want. So I think that's what I've been trying to do more recently. So, yeah, it's just everywhere.

Grace Klise:

That makes Saint Ignatius very proud, finding God in all things. And on behalf of all of those at STM, Nevin, we are so proud of you and are so grateful for the gift of your presence the last four years while you've been at Yale, and we know that maybe you won't be in New Haven, but we know that we will carry you with us. We'll miss you at 5 pm Masses, when we don't have you as our reader, and just know that you always have a home back here at STM.

Nevin George:

Thank you.

Mary Margaret Schroeder:

Nevin, it's been great chatting with you now, but especially throughout these last few years. Getting to know you as a friend has been really inspiring for me, so really grateful for your witness.

Nevin George:

Thank you, Mary Margaret. It's been great getting to know you better the past few years too, and thank you both of you all for, first of all, having me on the podcast, but also just your friendship and support the past few years.

Grace Klise:

Yeah, good things lie ahead. So thank you to all of you who are tuning in to Finding God on Park Street, and we will see you next time. If you enjoyed listening today, please share this episode and leave us a rating and review. The producer of this podcast is Robin McShane, director of communications at STM. Sound mixing and editing are by Ryan McAvoy of Yale Broadcast Studio and graphics are by Mary Lou Cadwell of Cadwell Art Direction. We hope this podcast encourages you to seek God's presence in your everyday life. Thanks for listening and be assured of our prayers.

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