FINDING GOD ON PARK STREET

Kacie Barrett M.A.R. '25: Theological Inquiry With a Mystic’s Heart

• Grace Klise, STM Assistant Chaplain • Season 3 • Episode 3

Share episode

Join us as Kacie Barrett, a passionate graduate student at Yale Divinity School, shares her remarkable journey from a childhood on the ice in Montana to the study of theology here at Yale. Although she may not have seen it coming for herself, Kacie has been asking theological questions and honing her skills of critical analysis from a young age as a Catholic school student and teen youth ministry leader. Now, she’s putting them to practice as a budding theologian. 

Our conversation takes a deep dive into the heart of Kacie’s spiritual life, particularly her devotion to the Eucharist and Adoration. She reveals how these practices not only nourish her soul, but also inform her academic work and leadership within the Catholic Church. Hear Kacie’s candid reflections on navigating gender expectations as a young woman in leadership roles in the Church, and how the wisdom of mystics and Eucharistic devotion provide her with strength and insight. Her personal anecdotes shed light on the interior wrestling that happens in the life of faith. 

Kacie is currently serving as an intern at Saint Thomas More at Yale, which she sees as a parallel experience to serving in a parish while in college. Kacie offers valuable insights into the intersection of academic theology, practical ministry, and the ongoing challenges and rewards of maintaining a Catholic identity in a diverse academic environment. Don't miss this enriching exploration of faith, academia, and personal discovery.

Mentioned in this episode:  Catholic Youth Coalition Board

Support the show

Grace Klise:

This is Finding God on Park Street, a podcast from Saint Thomas More Yale's Catholic Chaplain Center. I'm your Grace Klise, with our student co-host, Michelle Keefe. Thanks for listening to today's episode. One might not expect to find a hockey-loving girl from Montana studying theology at Yale, but thank goodness it does happen. Meet acie Barrett, a grad student serving as one of STM's interns this year.

Grace Klise:

For Kacie, an early love of the Catholic faith, coupled with encouragement to ask questions and confront uncomfortable realities in the Curch, led her to Loyola University, hicago, to study theology, and then even further east to Yale Divinity School, where she's completing her Master of Arts in Religion. But you might be surprised by how this outgoing bubbly people person finds spiritual refreshment to fuel her academic pursuits through silence and solitude. Give Casey time in a chapel in front of the Blessed Sacrament and she is at peace, with a mystic's heart and a strong devotion to the Eucharist. Casey is pursuing important theological work. We can't wait to see what comes next for this budding theologian. So let's dive in.

Grace Klise:

So this studio is pretty far from the Div School, a place that both of you know well. So thanks for coming down to the other side of campus, the other side of the city. Do you spend a lot of time, most of your time up at the Div School.

Kacie Barrett:

I do. I live kind of by Old campus so I feel like I get the best of like both worlds in that regard, like I get to be around STM and all the beauty of Old Campus and then me and my bike go up the hill when I go to class and me and Prospect Hill are good friends, and then I just get to be up there with my Div community, which is really lovely.

Grace Klise:

Yeah, that actually is great. I know not many grad students, especially Div students, are necessarily living down by Old Campus, so that's really beautiful. That walk traversing campus up the big hill, get a little workout as you head to class and then be able to come back down, that's really beautiful.

Michelle Keefe:

Are you a pro with the shuttle schedules yet?

Kacie Barrett:

Yes, my friends will text me to like ask how the shuttles work or like where they need to go to get somewhere, because they know that me and the shuttles are good friends these days.

Grace Klise:

It is so interesting with our graduate community here because we have so many students who maybe are here for one year, are a lot of students who are here for two years and then some, like you, Michelle, doing a Ph. D., you're going to be here for six plus years, whereas with our undergrads it's pretty standard four to five years. So this, Kacie, is your second year and your last year doing the M. A. R. What is your concentration?

Kacie Barrett:

I am an M. A. R. in History of Christianity and I do kind of late medieval, beginning of the early modern period, kind of Catholic history. I'm sort of fluid, though I'm really interested in kind of the relationship between theology, history and pop culture and so as much as I am a little bit rooted in a particular period, I tend to move about.

Grace Klise:

Such an interesting combination. Are there others at the Div School who are studying those things together?

Kacie Barrett:

There's a lot of like, even if it's not in the same period. There are a lot of people who are touching on these different live wires for me theologically, and so there is a beauty in the other people in history for the most part are not in my period, or at least my cohort is just me and one other person. So there's a bunch of new first years which will be exciting to kind of hear where they fall, and it's been fun to begin hearing about where they're doing their work, but a lot of opportunity to learn how to approach all these different areas from people who are touching a lot of different disciplines, and I feel like it's just a really rich academic environment in that regard.

Michelle Keefe:

Has YDS shifted what you thought you'd be studying? Are you in a different place now in terms of what you are studying and interested in and where that has come from before YDS?

Kacie Barrett:

I thought I wanted to be a biblical scholar because my professors at Loyola who were like my biggest mentors, they were all biblical scholars and my like last couple of years we ended up with faculty who did stuff in history and religion and I was like, oh, they kind of do this. Other thing that I was really fascinated by the way biblical scholars handle like theological and historical realities, and finding out that YDS had a whole kind of subfield dedicated to this, I was like, "Oh, I can maybe do this in a way that still plays with story and narrative and history and theology's relationship to those things-- but not just where the biblical narrative is concerned," which has been really exciting.

Grace Klise:

And to be able to be at a place like YDS where you can continue to explore those is really neat. So all three of us have spent time studying theology in graduate school and I'm guessing if you're like me, you did not anticipate that?

Kacie Barrett:

No, not at all.

Grace Klise:

Can you tell us what led you, maybe unexpectedly, to where you are today?

Kacie Barrett:

Yeah, I think theology felt like a last possible option for me when I decided it, but I think anybody who knew me growing up would say that that was like not at all true, that it was pretty obvious for a long time that I was probably going to be in these spaces. I grew up in Montana, which is beautiful and wonderful and it's a deeply magical place. It's just the beauty of the natural world is so evident constantly, and I grew up going to Catholic school. I went to St. Matthew's because that's where my dad went to school growing up, and so my dad is Irish Catholic. My mom had family that was Catholic and a couple of different Protestant denominations and so kind of moved around, and when my dad was like I want our kids to go where I went to school, she was really supportive of that but also wanted to know what it was that my brother and I would be taught in school and so started RCIA when I was in elementary school and converted to the Church and was pretty clear that if she found something that she did not like, then it was maybe going to change for us. But thankfully she also found a home in the tradition and it meant that there was always kind of a tinge of like learning about the Church around my whole childhood and my parents were very clear on that.

Kacie Barrett:

We went to Catholic school because that's what my dad did and we went to Mass on Sunday because that's what you did as a family. But any in between, however much Catholicism we wanted or however little we wanted, that was up to us to decide. And, being in Catholic school, it was a really beautiful environment. Whenever Father Joe like comes down into the pews to give his homily, I like feel like I'm back in kindergarten, because that was what Father Vic did and he would come down and he always had questions and it was like the biggest excitement if at Friday Mass, you like got to be somebody who answered one of Father Vic's questions, and even if you like didn't totally get it right, he was like, "oh, not quite, but like we'll try again.". You know, like it was, nobody was ever wrong. Really, they were just like not quite at what he was looking for, but he never dissuaded anybody from finding what they needed to find in what was being read at Mass and that It really really formative in a lot of. ways like The the Mass was in real way a dialogue but also like a space for learning.

Kacie Barrett:

started pretty early and then had I a religion teacher, teacher, Sr. Judy, like doubled down on that and who now every time I'm home I get together with her they're always early mornings and I bring her coffee and we get to kind of chat and she always wants to know what I'm learning and what I'm writing about and making sure that I'm causing all the right kinds of trouble as as theologian logian . It of started there, partially due to, nature of my Catholic school being very open and willing to dialogue and discourse and questioning question really really valuable ways, but also a space that encouraged learning to be this like beautiful and fun thing. She would have us read aloud Bible stories and we would have to act them out and we had like box of costumes and sometimes it was embarrassing. It was always a lot of fun fun and they really encouraged so much that I'm like very grateful for in a lot of ways.

Grace Klise:

We've heard from so many previous guests about the impact of their home life and the faith of parents for many of us our parents and people who encourage us to, to think critically about this tradition that has been passed down. So, you know a tradition in your family, but also then for it to be a place where you were met by these nurturing and faithful teachers, is really incredible, and I'm sure they love when you return to Montana and are able to catch them up to speed with all that you have been studying and thinking about. It sounds like a culture of questioning and exploring was encouraged and was seen as healthy and a part of our faith. But what was it like for you specifically as you entered into young adulthood?

Kacie Barrett:

I went to public high school, which was entertaining when I ended up at a Jesuit college because everybody would ask you like what Jesuit school you went to and I'd be like I went to public high school. It was a really interesting environment after being with the same like 15 people basically my entire life. But I lucked out. I grew up in the Diocese of Helena and all through my young adult life and I imagine still continuing they really fostered youth ministry in the diocese. We had a bishop who's primary and high priority for him was making sure that young people had space to develop in the faith and there was a summer camp that I grew up going to. But the big thing in high school that kept me around Catholic spaces but also really pushed me in a lot of ways was called CYC. It's a Catholic Youth Coalition Board and I did it all throughout high school and it was a group of high school students in the diocese who we had four meetings a year and we would help put on a one day rally and a three day convention. So the rally was for middle schoolers, the convention was for high schoolers and it was simultaneously this like really beautiful space of affirming the like, profound capability of young people in the Church.

Kacie Barrett:

But my senior year I was discerned into a leadership position. We didn't hold elections during the summer, we would hold a discernment process, so we would open in prayer and kind of let the spirit move and enter into a state of like please bring forth names that you think would serve best. And it was always interesting to kind of like see how that would go and what names would come forward and you'd kind of narrow the list down as it was evident that the spirit was moving. And as a senior I was discerned into an officer position and I served as our vice president of ops, which was a lot of fun. I helped kind of plan a lot of onstage stuff, but it was also a lot of responsibility. I got that position in a transition state in the diocese. We had new leadership out of youth ministry and it meant that while there was this really beautiful affirmation of the agency and authority of young people in the diocese, you also still want to be a teenager and there were some responsibilities and that I don't necessarily think like should have fallen on groups of high schoolers.

Kacie Barrett:

But in a transition things fall where they fall, and it was kind of the beginning of a process of acknowledging also both subtle and more evident ways in which being a young woman in the Church was like not a privileged position that you know.

Kacie Barrett:

I had sort of always felt a little bit like I was on the fringes of the tradition, but there was one moment when somebody from my hometown knew that there was somebody from our parish who was in a leadership position and just assumed it was one of my male classmates, and that was really hard because it was something I was so excited and elated about. But it was a really like clarifying moment of when it came down to who they expected to be leaders in the Church. It wasn't necessarily me and it gave me so much as far as feeling very empowered as a young person and very capable to be an active agent in the Church, but also brought forth a lot of like sometimes bleak clarity about the reality of the tradition which, like now, bleeds into my research. And so there was a lot I learned in that.

Kacie Barrett:

That hurt, but also so much joy and some of my like closest friends I met going to Catholic summer camp and being on CYC with, and one of them is getting married in the fall, so I'm getting to go to her wedding and it's, you know, all these really beautiful things that have lasted in really profound ways.

Grace Klise:

Thanks for sharing about that.

Michelle Keefe:

So, you're talking about your childhood and all these sort of moments and people that punctuate it, and now, hearing you being thrust into this leadership and it's interesting, I'm getting a sense of a very sort of outward facing you as an extrovert. If I may say, there's this sense of you're almost thrust into this role of being very visible and being very vocal and being so. I'm actually really curious. What is your interiority like? What were the parts of the faith for you that were cultivated within and what were some of the things that you did to do that?

Kacie Barrett:

Yeah, I think being thrust into a very outward and loud position. It meant that any sort of devotional reality that allowed for quiet I was like desperate, for I fell in love with adoration as a senior in high school and I like remember being at our convention and being just like so physically exhausted and it was there was just this window of time where it was like people were beginning the check-in for registration and we hadn't started for the evening yet and I like went into the Chapel and just passed out in a corner. Basically, I was with a friend and I fell asleep and I like woke up and was like, "oh my, I can't believe I just fell asleep in adoration. And he was like, oh, it was just a prayer the whole time you were asleep."

Kacie Barrett:

And I think he quoted some saint when he said it, but I was just, I was really inclined towards quiet and especially the Eucharist.

Kacie Barrett:

I'd always found Mass as this kind of like rooting point and I'd always found a lot of devotional strength in the Eucharist. And I think, as I was experiencing a lot of unexpected responsibility and hurt in ways that I didn't anticipate, I stayed and I think what kept me as I went through college and experienced similar things the idea of having to grieve the loss of the Eucharist is just too much for me to bear. It keeps me rooted in this tradition and the Eucharist tells us so much about ourselves and the people around us and if those things are true, then I don't want to lose them. And the Eucharist tells us so much about ourselves and the people around us and if those things are true, then I don't want to lose them. And receiving during the Mass is this beautiful, wonderful thing, but also just the quiet of getting to be around it. If, like, people couldn't find me but they needed me for things, the kind of general consensus was like she's probably in the chapel, that's not bad, no.

Grace Klise:

It's a good thing for people to think about you.

Kacie Barrett:

But it was like, "I need Kacie to say what stage this is happening on, and they're like she's probably in the Chapel, just go find her. And it was like my reprieve and all of that, and it built a really a really beautiful Eucharistic devotion out of it and as well as like youth leaders who who saw that and then pointed me to especially mystics that have this beautiful relationship with the Eucharist and that I like read and was like, oh, other people are also feeling this way and also feeling really disoriented in the ways in which they're called, and it was kind of these two pieces that were coming into place and the mystics had language for it and I was grateful. eah.

Michelle Keefe:

That's awesome. That's interesting because I was going to ask how did you get into the mystics? But it's really beautiful. I love the way you were just describing Eucharist and adoration and the idea of having to grieve the loss of that. What is it that keeps you in the tradition when there's so much in the tradition or in what you know in the Catholic Church that you know you get angry or you frustrated? You know so many times people are asking me why do you still stay, especially when there are things that are horrendous that are happening, and you know what does keep me here? It's a beautiful thing to see people witness to the very real pieces of the faith that say like no, this, this is why I'm Catholic. So thank you for sharing that.

Grace Klise:

And to have discovered young and amidst the busyness and the noise and the outward facing activity that maybe the Church is calling us to do, we need to create space for our soul to rest. I feel like so many people don't discover that or recognize that until they're burned out, you know. And so to have discovered that early on and then in the year since, to be able to return to that as a source of strength is just an amazing gift. But I often think, as someone who works for the Church, you kind of see the underbelly of the Church in a lot of ways, I think of the line from scripture of the apostles saying "Lord, to whom else shall we go?

Kacie Barrett:

I often think about that.

Grace Klise:

It's like if this is what Jesus says it is, how can I walk away from this, amidst all the sin and the brokenness and the injustice that, yes, we are called to fight and to speak out against, but it's the Eucharist. So thank you for sharing that. It's a really, I think, a good reminder for all of us to amidst kind of the tedium and the chaos and the frustration of being a part of this, this institution.

Kacie Barrett:

I had a spiritual director in undergrad who, shout out Peggy, said "I'll let you be seasoned, but I won't let you be cynical, um, which you know the way she described it was being seasoned is is knowing that there's a likelihood that the church is going to disappoint you, that it's an institution made up of people and expectations get dashed and people disappoint us and we get hurt a lot of the time in kind of the crosshairs of that, or sometimes intentionally.

Kacie Barrett:

But there has to be like some good, some hope that sits like underneath all that seasoning, that knows that the Church is capable of being better and so, growing up around a very palpable expression of what it meant to be Eucharistic, like being lived out, it meant that I could cling to that as, like all this other chaos was happening and things were going wrong, b ut I knew that I've known because I've seen it. T hat the Church is capable of being better and so I'm allowed to be seasoned, just not cynical. Just I can't forget that there's still that goodness somewhere, even if sometimes it's kind of deep and hidden away but it's still there.

Kacie Barrett:

And I know it because I've had the privilege of experiencing it. Yeah, that's a beautiful line.

Grace Klise:

I'm going to share that with others.

Kacie Barrett:

So thank you, Peggy.

Grace Klise:

So it sounds like you had this really fruitful but grounding experience in high school. Then you went to Loyola and did you know right away that you wanted to study theology, or was it something that it took a little bit for you to discover and others were kind of like, okay, we're waiting for you to recognize that this is what you're supposed to be doing. Tell us a little bit about that process.

Kacie Barrett:

I did not enter Loyola studying theology, I was an exercise science major-- wow.

Kacie Barrett:

Yeah, I know it's it's always like my like little secret. It's like I was in bio lectures and lab my freshman year. Yeah, I had grown up playing sports. I played hockey competitively. That was like my, my bread and butter. It was like if I was gone from school, people could probably guess that I was either at a church event or a hockey game. And they were right like ninety nine percent of the time. And so I mean hockey is also how I found out about Loyola. I played competitively for the state of Montana and we went to a college showcase outside of Chicago and Loyola was one of the schools that was like presenting about themselves and was like we're an option if you want to.

Kacie Barrett:

And I ended up going for a week summer camp the summer before my senior year and fell in love with Loyola. And being an athlete, and also an athlete who was injury prone and had a surgery in high school, I was so grateful to the people who had helped me rehabilitate and regain muscle strength and be able to be back on the ice again, and I was like that would be cool to do for other people, and so that's what I entered Loyola with grand ambitions of, and those kind of started to fall apart pretty early on. I realized I didn't really care about my bio classes in the same way I would for my 101 class. Those were the readings I was excited to do. I was like staying after asking Dr. O every question I could like possibly come up with because I was just desperate to keep talking about this thing and I joke that she like bullied me into the theology department but she was just so persistent. I think that maybe this is a thing you want to do and I was like, "oh, I know I don't want to do bio, but I don't know if I want to do this and both my parents are accountants. So I changed to accounting for like half of a semester and then partway through second semester of my senior year I was like I am in maybe more theo classes and business classes and that doesn't really work out for for my like major requirements, so maybe it might be time to change. And I remember submitting the form and I called my parents and my dad was like yeah, duh, like that is. You know, that is so obvious.

Kacie Barrett:

Around graduation I was reminiscing with a friend of mine in the theology department who we lived on the same floor and she was like "I remember like the first week of freshman year I told you that I studied theology and you were like that's the coolest thing ever, I wish that I could do that. And she's like, " and now we're both graduating from that. So I still got college out of hockey, which I'm like eternally grateful for. I didn't play at Loyola, but it gave me a window into a kind of college experience that I didn't necessarily think was an option. I like got to go out of state and experience Chicago, which was like the polar opposite of Montana in a lot of ways, but I fell in love like hard and fast, both with the city of Chicago and with theology, and it was not in the plan but I am eternally grateful for it.

Kacie Barrett:

And I remember multiple people that I knew and also did not know kind of saying the same phrase, that like theology is a calling, theology is a vocation, and I was like, huh, that is so funny that so many people are saying that to me. I am not someone who the Lord can speak to subtly. It's got to be obvious and overt and kind of like hitting me over the head with it. Because then finally I was like, oh, maybe this is what I'm supposed to be leaning into, which. I think he was just like "h, thank God.

Michelle Keefe:

It's a great way of really showcasing that sense of you know, we might think with our heads a lot of the times, but sometimes it's the what is? Where's the Spirit moving? Right, like, where is the gut, where is that sense of my life, my soul, my energy is in this thing and to really pay attention to, maybe, where the Spirit is moving. But it takes time, right? It's not an easy flip of a switch, with, you know, God hitting you over the head with a wooden beam or something.

Grace Klise:

Yes, what was it like studying academic theology? Obviously, you'd gone to Catholic schools and I'm guessing you know in your own free time you were spending time with other Catholics, maybe encountering Catholic texts and writings, as a high school student. But the academic study of theology? How did that impact your faith, life and especially your understanding of what it means to serve? It's clear that serving and being with people is really important to you and is just part of how you move through this life. And so what was it like now, being informed by the academic study of theology?

Kacie Barrett:

I had all these questions about the tradition that I never got answered and it wasn't because the people around me didn't care to. I don't really feel like I got shut down, but I just didn't have the resources. And I was encouraged towards the end of high school by youth ministers. I had one youth minister who was like maybe you would like Teresa of Avila, you guys might get along.

Kacie Barrett:

And I was like she's really snarky about the faith and has this like this beautiful mystical devotion, but like is also kind of jaded about it sometimes and I was like, "oh, and that was sort of the first time of like, oh, I can read these texts that like are deeply academic while also being deeply devotional.

Kacie Barrett:

And I think I ended up with professors who could see that I had like all these questions just like bubbling under the surface and was like desperate for answers for and, they gave me the tools to be able to like work through that and find those answers on my own and also have the language to advocate for a vision of the Church that, like I knew was capable and that I knew was really at its core, but that I didn't yet have like the language to be able to like really like put my hat in the ring and be like no, actually, I think that like it should be this, and I can tell you why because you know we teach all these beautiful things about the Eucharist and sacramental dignity and our baptismal realities, and, and I got language for that.

Kacie Barrett:

But I also had professors who were very clear about this is a beautiful thing to have, but you've got to go use it you, you have got to take it and make it something that the people around you can can understand. And, I think also my parents helped with that, because tell them what I learned about and they'd be like it sounds like gibberish.

Kacie Barrett:

What are you talking about? I'd have to be like. You're right. I just I exist in this really heady world and I had professors who were like these are tangible things.

Kacie Barrett:

I took classes on religion and fantasy and creation and pop culture, and you know, we were reading Augustine and the scriptures and kind of all these really traditional things, but we were also like watching Westworld.

Kacie Barrett:

It created a really clear relationship between the practical application and the reality and the weight of these things with, these spaces where I just got to like chase my interests, and doubly so because I was in the theology department but I also worked as a sacristan at Madonna and so I was doing all this theological thinking and then on Sundays I was going to work and setting up for the Mass and like these very like, tangible like, and then you put out the missile in this spot and the patents go here, and it brought those two beautiful elements of the tradition like into conversation with one another, where then also when students were coming with questions, I like had the resources to be able to be like oh you know, this is what I've been taught, but also like these are the things you should read to like, come to these conclusions on your own and you know if these are questions you've got really that you're wrestling with.

Kacie Barrett:

The tradition has a lot of stuff to say about it and sometimes it's not always like the immediate kind of like Church fathers that we go to, but sometimes there's more there and the digging that I was doing was then making it so that these things were available to people who didn't have the privilege of getting to think about theological texts for, you know, eight hours of the day, yeah for sure.

Grace Klise:

At the same time as you're studying these in the classroom, then, to be part of a parish too, knowing the role that you're currently serving at STM as an intern, going to work on Sundays and helping out around the Golden Center and working with some of our undergrads, and I just think, oh man, this was like training for what you're currently doing during this intern year.

Kacie Barrett:

Yeah, it feels like coming back to I was like around STM, and STM was incredibly valuable for me as I was transitioning to like a new school and a place that was so vastly different from where I was coming from and that I like never thought that I would be in. Like the first time I had a professor suggest that I apply to Yale, I was like like Rory Gilmore's Yale, like you know like it wasn't like a real place in my mind. I was like like Rory Gilmore's Yale, like you know. Like it wasn't like a real place in my mind.

Kacie Barrett:

like people in movies went to or books you know and not me. and spiritual home base and now, as an intern for STM, being able to like serve a community that served me, is like a huge. It's a huge gift. I like I get to give back to people who gave so much to me as a first year and, yeah, I'm very excited about it and it feels partially like coming back to a thing that I know, but also like getting to be in a community that is, in a lot of ways, like still new and I'm still learning so much about, but that many of you are like oh, it's okay, I'll be fine, like this is a crazy transition but I'll be okay because I have this place where I can go to mass and hang out with people and reach out to them when I have spiritual needs, but also just when I Mass like need to not be thinking about work or school and just be thinking about me in that moment, which is such a, such a joy and a privilege to have.

Grace Klise:

And the beauty of our faith is that the Eucharist is still there. It's like Jesus who's been with us from the very beginning remains with us even in these new spaces.

Kacie Barrett:

There's a constant there. Yes, yeah, I think, in the same way that my home diocese, the Eucharist felt palpable. It feels palpable here. I feel like the best way to describe STM is like it's living out what the Eucharist tells us and demands of us, and it makes it feel like like a real home away from home. It's filling a lot of those same desires and and gifts that I had all growing up and that I get to have again, just in Connecticut this time.

Kacie Barrett:

Moving further east from one day my parents are like for the next one. Are you moving further? I'm like, I don't know yet. We'll see.

Kacie Barrett:

So it's yeah, that's a keep moving further to the east. So but now there's an ocean in between me and moving a little further east. Some call it a pond.

Michelle Keefe:

That's true.

Grace Klise:

What has it been like being at YDS as a Catholic? You've talked a little bit about the home that STM has been for you here at Yale, but starting at YDS, when maybe this wasn't a place you ever again envisioned for yourself, what was that transition like and how has it been now in your second year as a grad student, but especially as a Catholic?

Kacie Barrett:

At YDS, I'd done a master's in theology at Loyola but knew that I had some academic strengths that I really wanted to work on and knew that I didn't want to be at a Catholic school, that I wanted something that was different and an environment that would push me in a lot of ways.

Kacie Barrett:

And so I I like knew from the get go that I was probably going to be in a little bit of an academic minority doing Catholic history and Catholic theological work.

Kacie Barrett:

And while I think that's true, I think there's such enthusiasm around what, like everybody is doing that as much as sometimes it is difficult where I'm like this is a very normal Catholic thing but people are not also reading these texts. You know, like it created a transition that was kind of fascinating to be a part of, where it's like there's such a wealth of knowledge, and there's like people that I thankfully can like reach out to and be in work with that do these things, but definitely like stepped in and was like, oh, this is a different world and I am in a smaller pool, you know, theologically and where my work is concerned, and but that's also pushed me to read things that I wouldn't have otherwise and engage with scholars that I probably wouldn't have otherwise, and it's like kind of a double-edged sword where it's like sometimes I'm like and I wish there were another Catholic who were also doing like late medieval stuff, which Michelle fills the gap very much so.

Kacie Barrett:

I felt so blessed at Loyola and I felt like it prepared me then to like deal with this adjustment period and I am now in a history concentration and I wasn't before.

Kacie Barrett:

So that was another transition where it was like, oh, there's a whole other academic language to this discipline that I'm now learning and it's been really interesting and I've lucked out with a lot of in the nicest way aggressive Catholics who have been like let's rope you in.

Kacie Barrett:

You know, like, because it can be, I think, isolating if you don't know kind of who the other Catholics are at YDS, and but I also have the most wonderful friends who are non-Catholic, who make me feel so fulfilled as a scholar, and it's always entertaining for us to kind of back and forth between, like, what is normal in our traditions and what is not and where we fall in things and what we're reading. And it was a tough transition. It was a new environment and a much more intense one, which it's to be expected of, you know, kind of the Yale of it all, but also an environment that like really put us first and or at least I felt that way and, yeah, so simultaneously isolating in periods but like such a wealth of knowledge in other ways that I'm really grateful for.

Grace Klise:

Yeah, and to have people like Michelle and other grad students who have done that transition before and are still around, to be resources.

Michelle Keefe:

I'm curious where you not where you see yourself going or like where do you see yourself in five years? More of a like where is your heart sort of moving right now? What are the spaces where you do feel called? You know I'm really excited for you to be the STM intern this year. I think even just the way that you described going from first year to second year, I'm really excited to see what comes of this space for you to be in this new role in the STM community and also still being with YDS. But I'm curious sort of where is your heart taking you?

Kacie Barrett:

I think the internship has been really lovely to have a reminder that the things that I'm doing up on the hill are so vitally important because they really do carry weight in the lives of people around me and thinking about next steps. A lot of my research deals with the female body and constructions around it theologically, out of the Catholic tradition and this idea that there's this susceptibility to the more thin places of the tradition, the mysticism of it, all this intimacy with the divine that as women we like tend to have a little bit more proximity to, and that can be like tracked theologically, which is really fun. But I think a lot of that comes from seeing the church really cannot function without its women. They're the backbone of the tradition, whether that's as laity or as members of religious life, and so being able to do theological work that, as I'm working in Church spaces and seeing that reality play out, can also remind us of our own history when we've weaponized this reality and used women as a battleground in a lot of ways to deal with disputes theologically and those regarding religious authority.

Kacie Barrett:

And as I think about the future, I feel so pulled to research. But I think part of that pull is because it's so tangible in everything else that I'm doing and I'm hoping that there will be opportunities to, you know, do that in a formal way, but I think really at my core I feel pulled to that and whatever path that looks like I'll be excited about and I obviously sometimes need some help being pushed around vocationally. So you know, I'm excited to see where that goes and I have ambitions for myself and I'm just really trusting that the really, really deep-seated nature of those desires is rooted in the fact that that's what I'm being called to. And it makes things a little bit easier as it's like kind of a really up in the air period for me in the next few months and I'm trying to cling to that as much as possible that this is and has always been vocational for me and that is in really tangible ways with STM and in also very tangible ways as a researcher, and so I'm looking forward to it.

Grace Klise:

Well, we're excited to see what comes next for you and to have you around STM even more this year as an intern. Can you quickly give us some of the things that you are working on as an intern or will be working on over the course of this year?

Kacie Barrett:

I am going to be working with Pauline on the Women Reading Theology group, which is like really exciting, and as well as some communication stuff with just like getting stuff out there for people, and also working in some of the ways in which STM is integrated with the larger New Haven community. So Soup Kitchen and that kind of stuff. I'm really looking forward to immersing myself in areas of STM that I didn't get to last year and that the opportunity is presenting it for, and just kind of being a presence where people at STM need me to be. I'm just happy to be a moldable in that way.

Grace Klise:

Well, we're grateful to have you as part of our community and grateful for this time today in the studio. Our last question that we ask all guests this season is where do you find God on campus?

Kacie Barrett:

I love being outside on campus. I think there's like something so grounding about it, like all the buildings are beautiful and there's like all these trees and Loyola was a beautiful campus right along the lake but it was still in a city and there's like real pockets of quiet that you get on campus and I think just like the walks that I get to take to places like everything is so pretty to look at and really I think most palpably also just the Mass, always like there's something about despite all the hectic nature of the week, and it's another pocket of quiet, both the beauty of campus and its little nooks and crannies of quiet, but also the ones that are intentionally so, like STM and the Chapel. So yeah, I think much in a way that's always been true. Any of those little pockets of quiet, those little pockets of rest, are where you'll find me still.

Grace Klise:

Yeah, whether you're in Montana or Chicago or New Haven. Well, thank you, and to all those listening, thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next time on Finding God on Park Street.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Grace Klise

Host