The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
Eternal Separation in Hell - Part 2 of 2
Eternal separation from God—or a chance at redemption beyond the grave? This episode challenges conventional beliefs as we explore the profound theological perspectives on the fate of sinners after death. We start by refuting the idea of annihilation and that sinners can somehow escape the fires of hell without the gospel. Instead, we emphasize the grave reality of eternal torment for those who reject Christ, drawing on biblical teachings. With heartfelt reflections on personal faith and salvation, we even bring in surprising insights from ChatGPT about the nature of sin beyond death.
Our conversation leads us to unpack the concept of death as a state of perpetual separation from God, suggesting a continued existence beyond passing that many fail to consider. Using scripture and analogies, such as marital separation, we highlight the necessity of understanding these spiritual truths through the Holy Spirit rather than relying solely on digital sources. We delve into the biblical narrative of the rich man and Lazarus to further illustrate how eternal separation is an active state of being, urging listeners to comprehend the full weight of this doctrine.
As we progress, the urgency of turning to Christ is at the forefront. We assert that "everlasting" truly means forever, dispelling myths about a temporary hell. The idea that hell's torment is finite is challenged, with emphasis placed on embracing the gospel before it's too late. Throughout, we reiterate the significance of God's love and its powerful draw towards repentance and salvation. This episode serves as a clarion call, urging listeners to deeply evaluate their beliefs and turn to Christ, highlighting the eternal consequences of their spiritual choices.
So you got two camps and then there's a third camp. The first camp I already talked about briefly annihilation, a lie from the pit. A second camp sinners will go to hell, but then, after some time in the lake of fire, they'll be purged with the restitution of all things, which is also a lie, and probably the worst one, because it implies that the idea that a person can be in the lake of fire and will come out implies that you can be saved apart from the blood of Christ. You can be saved apart from believing the gospel. You can be saved apart from the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit. This is what has to happen if a person can be saved. These are conclusions that have to be made. If a person can be in the lake of fire After having rejected Christ, rejected the gospel, rejected the Holy Spirit, but After going into the lake of fire, they can still Escape, they can still get out. No gospel preaching, no blood of Christ, and you have to conclude that somehow they are redeemed through works. But the works are by degrees, so depending on the degree of sin, it will determine how long you stay in the lake of fire.
Speaker 1:It sounds ridiculous, but there are people that are actually teaching this nonsense, teaching this the idea that anybody would preach any message that assumes that after you die in this life, impenitent, unbelieving the idea that anyone can believe that you can be saved after this life, after you've been enthroned into hell, could not be a grosser lie to be told to a soul. And that leaves only one other way. We reject annihilation completely and wholly. We must reject this purgatorial purging from the lake of fire where people are going to be saved and eventually everyone is going to be saved universally. And that leaves only one real conclusion real conclusion that when you reject Christ in this life, when you die in your sins, when you die in your sins, unbelieving, rejected Christ, remained in your sin, you're going to be condemned to hell. Eternal torment, forever, forever, forever, forever. If I were not a believer today, I would have already had 60 years of an opportunity to embrace the Lord Jesus Christ, to become my savior and thank the Lord that he intervened and saved me and brought me to himself. But 60 years can you imagine rejecting the gospel and then thinking that you can die, go to hell, get cast into the lake of fire after the resurrection and then you can still come out of heaven. I mean come out of hell and go into heaven, having rejected Christ, not saved by the gospel, and no regenerative work of the Holy Spirit in your soul, and you're going to come out of hell because by the fire itself. I thought the blood is what saved you, not the fire. I thought the blood is what saved you, not the fire.
Speaker 1:Now I was curious. I want to read something to you. I was curious, so I went to chat GPT and I asked a question about what happens. What happens Does it to a sinner after they die, after they die? And here's what it says, because what I was also concerned about is how is, what is the condition, what is the state of a person's sin, and does a person continue in sin after they die? I made a post earlier today asking the question to all Christians. Question to all Christians Does a Christian still sin after they die? So this is a question that I posed to chatGBT and it says this, and I was actually surprised that it gave this answer, because it's not a bad answer. Here's what it says In Christian theology, sin is typically understood as something that occurs during a person's earthly life, as it involves actions, thoughts and desires that go against God's will.
Speaker 1:After death, unbelievers are often believed to face judgment, hebrews 9.27. And then it says this and their fate is determined based on their rejection of Christ. Some theological perspectives suggest that after death, unbelievers remain in a state of separation from God, often referred to as hell. But they are not necessarily committing new sins. Rather, they exist in the consequence of their earthly rejection of God. Others argue that their continued separation from God is in itself an ongoing state of sin.
Speaker 1:Now let me say this at the outset I don't believe what ChatGPT says, but there are elements of truth in what this response is, and the reason why I say this is because it's ChatGPT. We can't go here for an, for a an interpretation, nor can we go to google to interpret scripture. There's too many things. There's too many things that the gospel and the bible teaches that cannot be communicated or articulated in a definitive way from the standpoint of a internet response. Just can't be done. It's something that takes the Holy Spirit working in the souls and hearts of people who study the word of God to be able to bring out the truth. So I'm reading this to you just to give you what it said, not to believe what it says. So, and believe me, I'm the last person in the world that will tell anybody to go Google, to go Google or chat GBT, anything. Now here's what I want to get at. I want the point I'm making is that hell is eternal, hell is everlasting. Hell is torment and condemnation that lasts forever. This is my point that I'm making. That lasts forever. This is my point that I'm making.
Speaker 1:So when you ask a Christian, any Christian, any true believer who knows the word of God, if you ask them what is death, what is death? Generally the answer will be and rightly so it is separation from God. Separation from God, it means that in your lifetime you weren't reconciled to God and so, since you were not reconciled to God and you died in your sins, unreconciled, now you will remain separate from God, from God. So death is separation from God, separation. Nobody will agree. No Christian should, in their right mind and have a proper understanding or have been properly taught the word of scripture, will not know that separation or that death, that the ultimate aspect of death is to be separated from God. Now, separation from God is eternal. It is eternal separation from God.
Speaker 1:Now you have, on one hand, you have these guys, like I told you about earlier, who say and I think a couple of them are on here right now, but they will say that a sinner who dies in their sin will be cast into the lake of fire and eventually, over time, they will come out and ultimately be saved, which is silly and it's hogwash. So that's not true. But they can't argue that death is separation from God, because if you're in hell at any point you're separate from God. You're either reconciled to God, which is what believers are reconciled to God, or you are separated from God. You are separated from God.
Speaker 1:But here's the key part. That are the friends that oppose us would say here's the problem that they have in my mind, here's the problem that they have how do you have separation unless you exist? Separation implies existence. Separation implies existence. So this in of itself, you can't be if your soul and your body and soul are annihilated, like the Jehovah's Witnesses say and like the Seventh-day Adventists say, if you are just annihilated. That is not separation. You can't be separated from God if you're annihilated. Separation implies existence. Let me give you an example For those of you who are married.
Speaker 1:When a husband and a wife are married, they are reconciled. They are reconciled. However, if they break up, they decide that it is no longer suitable for them to be together. What do they do? They separate. So they're separated. We have a legal status in this country, in America, of separation. There's a legal status that is referred to as separation. Couples have irreconcilable differences and they separate. Now, on the other hand, if you have that same couple and one of them dies, if one of them dies, you don't refer to that as a separation. You don't say they're separated when one spouse dies, that does not constitute a separation. Somebody dies, the marriage is over, it's done. There is no, though that person, for all intents and purposes, is annihilated, gone.
Speaker 1:But for the analogy that we're talking about, separation implies the existence of the persons who are separate from each other. Death is separation from God, and so for death to be separation from God, god must exist, as we know he does, and the person that he separated from must exist in order to be separated from God. God is eternal, he is eternal. So if death is separation from God, then that means that that person, not only must they be alive in order to be separated from God, but their separation, their existence, must be eternal alongside with God in order for their death to be separation. Does this make sense? Separation, separation implies your existence If you're separate from God, and death is separation. That separation implies your existence, which also must be eternal alongside with God in order for you to experience death. And hell is death for those who reject Christ, and death is separation from God. Separation implies existence and it implies eternal existence. Otherwise it would never be called separation, and this begins eternal separation or separation from God. Death. This happens when you die. It happens when you die. It's eternal.
Speaker 1:In Luke 16, in Luke, chapter 16, we see the rich man and Lazarus. I mentioned this earlier the rich man and Lazarus. Luke 16 and verse 23, it says that the rich man who was turned into hell, and in hell he lifted up his eyes. Notice this. He lifted up his eyes being in torment, and he saw Abraham afar off and he saw Lazarus in his bosom, lazarus in his bosom. Now let's look at a few things here.
Speaker 1:Luke 16, verse 23. It says that the man was in hell. He was in hell, no question he was there. He was there, but it says he lifted up his eyes. He lifted up his eyes being in torment. And think about what this means. Because the man was in hell, his body was in the grave. His body was in the grave, his body Was in the grave, but in hell Is where his soul was. Hell is where his soul was. His soul Is the animated Feature that, when put into the body, gives the body life. So the animation, the animated aspect of our existence, being separated from our body, has the ability to see, has the ability to see.
Speaker 1:Now somebody says Lazarus was not in hell. We're not talking about Lazarus, but you're right, he was not in hell, he was where Abraham was. And it says that the rich man could see Abraham way off in the distance, how, I don't know, somehow he could see it. Jesus wanted us to understand that the rich man could see where the blessed souls were, somehow, some kind of way he could see now. So, but it says that the rich man keep in mind, his body is in the grave, he's in this intermediate state, and it says that he lifted up his eyes, he was able to see with his soul. There's a capacity that the soul there is an element of our senses that are still with us when we die. Don't ask me how, I don't know, but this man was able, while in hell, he was able to see. He was able to see with his eyes. Christ says it In hell, he lifted up his eyes. Christ says it In hell. He lifted up his eyes Without his body. He was able to see with his eyes. Next, what does it say? It says he lifted up his eyes being In torments.
Speaker 1:Being in torments, being in torments. Now let's look at this for a second, because there's two things I want to say here. Being in torments we talk about when we refer to humanity. We call ourselves human beings. Human beings, we call ourselves human beings because we be and we acknowledge that we be, and this is one of those metaphysical things that we understand. So what is critical to ourselves being rational human beings, is being aware that we be.
Speaker 1:So here it says that this rich man, this rich man lifted up his eyes being being, he existed, he was alive. The animating principle of his, his animating principle of life, was with him. He was alive. And he was thrown into hell and he lifted up his eyes with his being, and his being was in torments, his being apart from his body. He had a being that was separate from his body. Being in hell, he was in torments.
Speaker 1:Torment only matters if it is something in some kind of way he could feel. Is it sense? Is it the physical? No, it's not. But it is what we might refer to in theological terms as preternatural. He was being tormented in a preternatural way. It was torment meaning the kind of torment that affects the soul, not the body. But the time is coming where the soul and the body will be resurrected, brought back together, cast into the lake of fire and to be tormented, body and soul as a unit. So this rich man, he lifted up his eyes in hell, being able to see, having a being that is able to undergo torment. He could see Abraham. He could see Abraham, he could see Lazarus, and he could see or sense that he knew he was being tormented. No question about it at all. This is what happens to all of those who have died unrepentant and impenitent and who died as reprobates rejected by God. And so it says here that, being in torments, he saw Abraham afar off and he saw Lazarus in his bosom.
Speaker 1:So now, before I close, I want to bring up one last thing, because in the upcoming days and weeks, as I talk about the subject of hell and the eternality of it. You have a common verse that people like to quote in Matthew 25. That sinners will be cast into the lake of fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. It says. Then shall he, meaning Christ, shall say unto them on his left hand depart from me. You cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to get into what everlasting means, because you have a few of these people out there that want to tell you that everlasting doesn't mean everlasting, that it means for everlasting up to a certain point. I'm going to prove their error is wrong. But it's easier to prove if you just look at what the verse already says. It says that the wicked who are considered cursed by Christ are turned into the lake of fire, or everlasting fire, and it says that was prepared for the devil and his angels. So my question to them would be so if the everlasting is temporary in duration for us or for sinners who die in their sins, if it's only temporary, then we also have to conclude that it must also be temporary for the devil and his angels, which nobody would admit that. Nobody would admit that.
Speaker 1:But the other thing that people say is this they will say that hell was never meant for man, but that it was meant for the devil and his angels. And so they say that it was never meant for man. That is not true. It was definitely meant for the devil and men, because angels covers men as well. Because what are angels? Angels are messengers. Angels are messengers.
Speaker 1:Just go look at the first three chapters of Revelation the angel of each of the churches. They were messengers. Just go look at the first three chapters of Revelation, the angel of each of the churches. They were messengers. They were the pastors, the shepherds. The angels are those who are ministers of the devil, and they can be demonic or human. They're messengers, they're heralds, they're his agents, they're his vice regents, they are those who are his sons. So when it says that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels, it means it encompasses all of those who are in service to Satan, all of those who are in service to the devil, whether they be angelic or whether they be men. So that doesn't hold.
Speaker 1:So, to conclude, what I want to say here is this as I go into this series that I'm going to do and I don't know if I'm going to do it every single day, or I may do it once a week or whatever, but I want to make sure that I convey a thorough assessment, for those who are willing to hear, of what hell is, what separation from God is, and explaining the duration being eternal and why it is eternal lasting forever. But what the important thing is here is this If you're listening to me, it shouldn't matter about hell being eternal or the duration of it or the egregiousness of its torment, because right now, everyone who is listening has an opportunity to turn to Christ today. There is no reason for anyone who has lived any length of time on this life, who has the capacity to understand and reason, there is no reason why somebody should reject the Lord Jesus Christ, why they should reject the gospel. Even my friends who don't agree with my perspective on the duration of hell and the eternal nature of its torment, they should all have to agree that there is no reason why anyone should have to even dilly-dally with the prospect of going to an eternal condemnation, a place of eternal condemnation. If you do not have to, and if you're listening to me right now, you do not have to. There is no quibble here, there is no fight here.
Speaker 1:Jesus Christ came to earth to save sinners. I know I am definitely top of the class as a sinner and he saved my soul. Many people who listen here are people that I know. He saved your souls. There are many people who I know and love today who I want to see saved, and I know, I believe, that he will save many of them, hopefully all of them, but salvation was intended for sinners. Salvation was not made for people who can make the best argument about the duration of hell.
Speaker 1:I may win an argument with somebody over this issue. I may lose an argument with somebody over this issue, but the may lose an argument with somebody over this issue, but the one issue that we should all agree on is that Jesus Christ came to earth to save sinners, and if you are a sinner, then he is here for you. His blood was washed, his blood was shed for you. He took nails in his hands for you. If you believe, he died to save sinners, and so if you turn to Christ today, hell is not an issue that you have to worry about. Whose argument is correct. So I appeal to all who are listening repent and turn to Christ, and he will save your soul immediately.
Speaker 1:There's no big song and dance that needs to be done, nothing other than to believe. But be assured of this. One of your primary motivating factors should be this. One of your primary motivating factors should be this Christ came to save sinners. And if he came to save, he came to save us from something. He didn't come to save us from annihilation. He didn't come to save us from from. I don't even know how to explain this other definition of going to hell and coming out, but the point is this he saved us from everlasting condemnation. He came to save us from a condemnation that has no end and that condemnation involves torment, to whatever degree. Christ promised it. Christ promised it. He promised it. There is no limit to it. That's why it is so important to believe today. While you can. What I'm saying sounds crazy to the average American.
Speaker 1:Today, people are defecting from the faith left and right. Men have itching ears. They're willing to consume any doctrine. They'll believe anything that makes it easier for them to live in their sin comfortably. There is nothing to fear if you're going to get out of hell later. There is nothing to fear if you're going to get out of hell later. There is nothing to fear if you're going to just be annihilated. But if hell is what the Bible actually teaches eternal condemnation, eternal torment that's a different story. That should motivate you.
Speaker 1:The love of God. The love of God will never be the reason why most people come to Christ, but, on the other hand, from God's standpoint, it is his love that draws us to him. But we despise God, we hate God. He has to give us a new heart which is able to love him. So, when it comes down to it, when it comes down to it, one of the things that I was addressing earlier that I didn't get, I didn't get to highlight, but I'll do briefly do it here is this the reason when a person dies.
Speaker 1:Because you have a lot of people that talk about their freedom of will. A lot of people talk about having a free will, but one of the reasons why hell is eternal in duration is because when sinners are turned into hell, they haven't lost all their faculties. They haven't lost any of their ability to understand and reason and rationalize. So what happens is sinners, when they go into hell, they are still the same person that they were when they were on earth. They were still sinners, which also necessitates the reason for the eternity and duration of their existence in eternal torment, because they are still sinners, whatever ability that they had, whatever ability if you think they had an ability to repent or to become saved and to believe, they still have that with them when they die.
Speaker 1:You don't change, you are still the same person, still the same person, which is why, when you go into hell, you could never come out, because you never stop sinning. Even after you leave here, you are still a sinner, you are still sinning. Your thoughts are still sinful thoughts. Your desires are still sinful desires. The rich man didn't change when he was in torments. He was still giving orders to Abraham to send Lazarus to him to cool his tongue, so that he could be refreshed. And Abraham told him not so fast, not so fast.
Speaker 1:So what I'm saying is and I'll elaborate this in some upcoming messages when people die, when unbelievers die in their sins, their sins don't stop. When they die, their sin continues because they are still the same people. They still have their wits, they still have their corrupt nature, they still have their ability to reason and to rationalize, even though they don't use that to believe, to trust in Christ, whatever ability you think you have, you feel the same way today, whatever you think you have, whatever abilities you have mentally, whatever mental acuity you have now, you will have when you die. Except you will never have. You won't have the ability to actually come to faith because the Holy Spirit won't be there. The ability to actually come to faith because the Holy Spirit won't be there. There'll be nothing to compel you to truth, because the window of opportunity for believing in Christ will have been closed the minute you shut your eyes on this earth.
Speaker 1:If you don't know Christ, it will be just like the rich man in Luke 16. He lifted up his eyes, being in torments. Turn to Christ today, while it is called, because if you don't, if you don't, and he's ready to receive you now, immediately, there's no reason to wait. There's nothing to learn, there's nothing to immediately. There's no reason to wait. There's nothing to learn, there's nothing to do, there's no course to take. Turn to Christ now and he will save your soul. Otherwise, what awaits is eternal condemnation that has no end to it. Be provoked and be persuaded. God bless you all.