The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
Kingdom Economics: Laborer's in the Vineyard (PART 2 of 5)
The Parable of the Vineyard Workers cuts straight to the heart of how God's kingdom fundamentally differs from human systems of fairness and merit. Through a rich, theological discussion of Matthew 20, we explore why a vineyard owner would pay the exact same wage to workers who started at different times throughout the day—and what this reveals about salvation, grace, and God's relationship with humanity.
We unpack a fascinating perspective that sees the first laborers as representing Israel under the Old Covenant. These workers negotiated their wages—"a penny a day"—mirroring how Israel entered into a covenant relationship where God said, "Do this and you shall live." In contrast, those who came later—at the third, sixth, and ninth hours—were simply told, "I will give you what is right," requiring trust rather than negotiation.
This distinction brilliantly illuminates the difference between life under the Law versus life under grace. The workers who came later had to exercise faith that the householder would be fair, much as we must trust in God's goodness without demanding specific terms. Their willingness to accept whatever the master offered parallels how salvation works—not by our merit or timing, but by God's sovereign grace.
The conversation tackles challenging questions many believers struggle with: How can someone who converts on their deathbed receive the same eternal reward as a person who served God their entire life? Is faith something we generate ourselves, or is it entirely God's gift? And where do we fit in the grand timeline of redemptive history?
This profound teaching reminds us that in God's upside-down economy, "the last shall be first, and the first last." His grace extends equally to all who respond to His call, regardless of when or how they enter His vineyard. What matters isn't the hour you began, but that you answered when He called.
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And who owns the vineyard. So now, good evening, joy.
Speaker 2:Hello, how are you?
Speaker 3:Good, good, blessings everyone. I'm just listening from work, so I'll put myself on mute here.
Speaker 1:All right, no problem, I'm in Matthew, chapter 20. So anyway? So in this passage it says the kingdom of heaven is like a man, that is a householder, which went out early in the morning to hire laborers into his vineyard. The householder is the Lord himself, the householder is the Lord, the Lord Himself, the householder is the Lord. And it says that the kingdom of heaven is like this householder who goes out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. So the vineyard is basically the world, or the people who are to be a part of his, his kingdom, because this is talking about the kingdom of heaven. So in the kingdom of heaven, the next next things that follow is it talks about and shows things that take place in the kingdom of heaven. In the kingdom of heaven, there's this vineyard, there are laborers and there's a man who's the householder. The householder is the Lord. The laborers are those who want to be a part of working in the vineyard. But the vineyard the vineyard we've seen throughout scripture is that vine upon which those who are saved are connected to the vineyard are his or God's people, his people that produce fruit. The laborers are obviously the people of his vineyard.
Speaker 1:Now he says in verse. He says in verse two that when the first laborers came, they agreed. They agreed to work in the vineyard for a certain sum, and a certain sum was for a penny a day. Now, and then it says that in the third hour he saw other people standing in idle in the marketplace and he went to them and says, hey, come work in my vineyard and I will pay you whatever is right. And then he did the same for those who came in the sixth hour and those who came in at the ninth hour. So now, as I said earlier, those who came in first, they had a negotiation, the negotiation that they made with the householder. But the people who came in at the third, sixth and ninth hour, he didn't negotiate with them, nor did they seek a negotiation. He just said go work at my vineyard and I will give you whatever is right. I'll give you whatever is right. But only the first group made an agreement. They made an agreement that they would receive a penny a day, but at the end, when the householder begins to pay out the wages, those who came in first got upset because those who came in last got paid the same.
Speaker 1:Now here's the thing who? And I'll ask you, big gravy, I'll ask you first who do we think the laborers are? Who came into the vineyard first? Who do you think Christ is talking about? The Jews? The Jews, joy. What do you think you agree with that or no? Oh, she's at work. She's muted. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that, all right, good, so, yeah, so I agree, it's the Jews. What do you think the agreement was, mcgravy? What do you think the agreement was?
Speaker 2:the agreement was they were to do the work based on what they negotiated would be the covenant absolutely, and what and what is that covenant in your mind?
Speaker 1:That covenant in their mind, if they would be, if they were working productive and be in agree to keep the terms of the agreement they would receive the reward that they negotiated for Right and that covenant, that covenant was the law right, the old covenant that we see when we read the Old Testament Do this and you shall live. Yes, Do this and you shall live. That was the agreement and they agreed. We received this law we will obey, but we know that ultimately they would not. But we know that ultimately they would not. And they agree. God told him do this and you shall live. He gave them his law Do this and you shall live. He told Adam refrain from this tree and you will live.
Speaker 2:You eat from this tree, you'll die. They acted like God, deceived them and kept something back. You didn't tell us about this other part, or we would have negotiated differently.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. But they made a negotiation. They made a negotiation and they got what they wanted. They got what they wanted. Now somebody says here Todd777,. He says the Israelites did not negotiate it. God just told him no, it wasn't. That wasn't it.
Speaker 1:If you read throughout the Old Testament, todd, I'm telling you go read it. How many times did they repent, saying we will obey? How many times did they? How many times throughout the scriptures, did they say they will obey? When they went and when they went astray, whenever somebody came to them Moses or another prophet or somebody they would realign themselves with God. They absolutely did, they absolutely did agree.
Speaker 1:And the thing is they didn't and they couldn't. They were entrusted with the law of God. They were entrusted with the ceremonial laws. They were entrusted with the, with the sacrificial laws. They they agreed to adopt the headship or to accept the headship and the theocratic nature of rule under God. It wasn't the Philistines or the Amalekites or the Canaanites or the Agagites and any of the other ites. They agreed that they would be God's people and so and I don't want to, like somebody says that Todd didn't mean that, whatever, but that's okay, we're just having a conversation.
Speaker 1:So, and if, todd, if you want to come up, you can. So it's no problem. I don't want to misrepresent what you're saying or what you mean. It just sounds like what is being said. But the agreement is that the agreement was because here's the thing about an agreement, because my brother said that the Israelites did not negotiate. Here's the thing, and I know that strictly it is not a negotiation, because the parables break down for the reasons that they do, but we get the point of what is being said. But a covenant, a covenant is an agreement. That's what a covenant is. It's an agreement and it establishes many things based on who is drafting the covenant.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, when we go down further, he starts going to the marketplace and sees other people standing idly, and he does this in the next nine hours. So he picks the first group and then he goes with the third hour, the sixth hour and ninth hour and he says to these people he says, hey, just come into the agreement, just come into the, to the vineyard, come to work, and I'll give you what is right. And I'll give you what is right. And all of these people do. Todd, are you there? Can you hear me? All right, I hear you. Fine brother, did I misrepresent what you were saying?
Speaker 3:No, I just look at it as a fact that you know, shem was picked out of the three brothers to become, you know, eventually the nation of Israel, and then Jacob wrestled with god, and so when I look at scriptures I just don't see. I feel like the circumcision within eight days and stuff like that was basically a command that you just need to do this to follow me so.
Speaker 1:So, when you look at revelation, when you look at mat Matthew 20, this is what we're talking about you have your Bible by any chance.
Speaker 3:No, I don't. I was almost not going to join just because I'm not in a position to get it.
Speaker 1:But if you don't I mean if you don't mind reading it again, yeah well, it's the parable of the vineyard when the laborers come in at different times of the day.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, so that's what I'm talking about. So what I was asking was who are the in the parable? Because, like I said, we know the parables break down, but Christ is using this to express biblical truths that are easily understood in the context of this type of speech, especially with his people. But I do believe that it is correct, like Big Gravy says, that the first laborers that came in at the first hour in the vineyard, I think they represent Israel. That's what they represent, whether we call it a negotiation or not. But in the parable he says that he agreed with the laborers that they would work for a penny a day, and that's why I said the negotiation, it was an agreement.
Speaker 3:I can see the parallel with the Israelites. I get that, but I like to refer. The biggest questions that modern Christendom gets is like so a guy that is in prison for unaliving somebody or whatever they, can, at the end accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and they're saved, even though they did these atrocious things? So I don't look at it as a more historical thing. I look at it as a more historical thing, I look at it as a modern question. That's a hard answer to you know. Say yes, you know, because we, you know, if somebody does accept Jesus, truly accept Jesus, even though they've done atrocious things, they're saved, correct.
Speaker 1:Right, absolutely.
Speaker 3:That's how I look at that parable a little bit, but I never really thought about it from the Israelites perspective.
Speaker 1:Right, Well, you know go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 2:What Todd has brought up has actually happened to me on several occasions. Where people bring up, when they read that parable, this is the way they understand it. You mean to tell me somebody can do this all of their lives and then come in at the last minute? No, I don't have it.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what? This is a big part of what this parable is about. This is a big part Because you know, and the thing is, none of us can communicate the way our Lord and Savior I mean, he puts this out here in a way that makes it easy for everyone to understand. So when you see this, when you read this to me, it is just so easy to grasp.
Speaker 2:You know, it's almost like his statements he make, like I will have mercy on who I would have mercy on, I would love who I would love. You know, I mean, yeah, mean, it's a powerful thing, just like he told Israel I'll do all this for you, right, if you'll come into this covenant relationship with me.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean think about this for a second Because, like Todd you said, Todd said something about negotiation. Yeah, do you remember what happened? Do you remember how Saul became king? Yes, yep how did that happen? Why did it happen?
Speaker 3:well, I just what I remember of it was that God wasn't happy because he didn't trust Saul, or Saul didn't trust God. No, no, what I'm getting?
Speaker 1:sorry, let me cut you off for a second what I'm getting what I'm getting at is how did it come about that Saul would be king anyway Forget about after he became king? How did it come about that he became king? Why? Why didn't he become a king?
Speaker 3:Weren't they begging for a king?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:They were begging for a king right, they was upset with the wages brother, exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but, with all due respect, I can just see Moses coming down in this golden calf and he chucks the tablets and God says I'm going to unalive these people and I'm going to give them these rules that are going to be so harsh. You know what I mean? I, I, I just didn't see any negotiation there. That's, that's well okay. But I can see your part of it too. Yes.
Speaker 1:But let's take. Let's take what you just said right now. Let's take what you just said right now when God said, when God said he was going to tell moses, he was going to destroy all those people and make a nation out of him.
Speaker 3:What did moses?
Speaker 1:do? I can't remember.
Speaker 3:He negotiated he, yeah, he uh pleaded, pleaded. Yes, he negotiated. Yeah, yeah, I get you, I get you.
Speaker 1:You see what I mean. What I'm saying is. What I'm saying is and look what I'm saying is. What I'm saying is and look what I'm saying is they God said that certain things he's willing to do and as long as you're willing to deal with the consequences. And there were many times throughout, throughout the you know the time from Adam up until up until Christ came. You know that there were times that were God was where, where God would be threatening condemnation and there would be those who would stand in the gap and negotiate with God. Now, you and I both know on the side. I'm not talking about the strictly sovereign perspective from God. I'm talking about we way we as men understand God from an anthropomorphic standpoint, meaning that through the eyes of God, I mean through the eyes of man. How are we to understand God's dealings from a sovereign perspective? How do we understand it? Because if you remember, remember when he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.
Speaker 3:You remember?
Speaker 1:what happened?
Speaker 3:Yep. Because Abraham got in the mix there yeah, would you do it for 40 people? Would you do it for 10? Yeah, I get you. I thought of that too. On the whole negotiation thing yeah, I did and that's what I mean.
Speaker 1:that's that's what I mean. It's not this, it's not this, like, okay, you guys all sit down at the table and we're gonna hammer out a deal, I'm gonna pay you. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the negotiations with respect to how the people would work with God, how they would agree to work together. You know how could they establish peace with him? And over and over again, we see them fall away. And then we see somebody come in the middle and become that stopgap. Abraham did it several times, noah did it.
Speaker 3:But okay, but in Matthew 20 that you're talking about, can you also agree that modern Christians are faced with that question all the time of like? Yeah, I mean that's the hardest answer to give people in my evangelism or my witnessing or whatever.
Speaker 1:No, I agree, I could definitely give to that because I believe that it makes a lot of sense. But let me ask you a question, todd. I'm going to ask you a question. Yes, sir, because you have four times a day where people were invited to come work into the venue. Yep, now, the first group that came in, they agreed to receive a penny a day. Yes, receive a penny. But the next three groups that came in in three-hour increments, the next three groups, the owner, the house owner, tells them go to work and I will give you what is right. Right, what do you think that means? How would you apply that?
Speaker 3:Well, I look at that whole parable of salvation and so it's like in. In my view, it's like some people are kind of I'm not saying that they're, they're saved necessarily, because I believe that you need to have a born again experience to be saved, but ultimately you kind of. There's some people that don't have that, that one moment where they just, you know they're on their knees sobbing and they turn to christ. They don't have that one moment. Some people it's like a slower thing, some people it's immediate, some people it isn't to the end, you know, um, so that that's the way I look at it, that ultimately we're all given the same reward right we are.
Speaker 1:We are given the same reward yeah but, but, but. But how would who, who, who would you relate like the people who did not receive and agree to wage? They just accepted that the householder would give them what he says is right?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Who are these people? Who did they? What is the Lord trying to teach us about these people in this parable?
Speaker 3:That they're willing.
Speaker 1:No, who are they? Who the workers? Yeah, who are?
Speaker 3:they who, the workers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who are they?
Speaker 3:Well, following your line of reasoning, it would be the, you know, the non Israelites, the, the Gentiles and stuff like that, right, and I and I, like I said I see that, but like why the? Why the multiple waves? You know to me, if it was about Israelite and Gentile, he would have said like they came at noon. It seems like you have like four different waves of people, which to me is an individual journey. Some people come early, some people come late, but ultimately the reward is the same we. We have salvation.
Speaker 2:So go ahead Go ahead Gravy and to me, just from experience of living in life at various times people become sick of their own sins and they decide to do something about it, some earlier, some in the middle age, some when they get old, but they nevertheless are welcomed in.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this question how would you I'm just asking for anybody to just guess, right how long would you say from the time of Adam or creation up until the time Christ came? How long would you estimate the world to have been?
Speaker 2:About.
Speaker 1:Well, let me put it this way, because people will argue this differently That'll open up another can of worms. Yeah, that would open up a can of worms. Let me ask it differently If you have a pie, like in math, you have a pie right. What percentage of that pie, would you say, was from the time Christ came until now, versus from creation to the time Christ came? In other words, how would you divide up the, the, the history of the world, in a pie?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I look at it as the you know, from the Jewish perspective, that it's about six thousand years old, and yeah, so what is it for six of the pie between Adam and Jesus? And, yeah, and like six, yeah.
Speaker 1:And yeah, in like six, yeah, but so, but my point is this that for the Israelites, for the Israelites prior to Christ, you had roughly six to seven thousand years. You know some will go up to 10, whatever, but the reality is, the reality is there was a much longer period Prior to Christ coming. Then it has been since, has been since he's been here. In other words, we know it's been 2,000 plus some years since he's been here. And so in this day of grace, this age of grace that we live in, as we call it, this new covenant era, it has so far been a very short period, at least a third, at least a third of, or or maybe more or maybe smaller of, the overall history of the world. So, generally speaking, like you or I, todd, might say six or seven thousand years, but even if somebody said a million years, it's only been two thousand years since christ has been here get you, I got you you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:so it's a short, it's a very short period, so, but it is, which could suggest and I don't know, but it could suggest that it could be a really long time before he returns, but it could returns, but I believe his return is imminent. So I see that. But my thing is in the parable, all of us who believe today, we are like the last hour Christians. We're the last hour believers in this parable, you know, and I think that whoever comes after us will be part of that company. What do you think?
Speaker 3:I agree wholeheartedly. I think one thing I love about how God does things is like I listen to the deconstruction people sometimes to you know, get you know trained up. And I'm not saying that there's double meanings. But when a prophet says that a baby is born of a virgin or whatever, and they be Emmanuel, the deconstruction person be saying, well, they're talking about King Ahaz or whatever during that time, but there's nothing about a name Emmanuel in the Old Testament at all, so they didn't fulfill it. If it was fulfilled at that time and it wasn't talking about Jesus, why wasn't there Emmanuel in the Old Testament? It was just mention of it. So I look at it as kind of a double meaning. I think you could look I your teachings right on. I don't I don't disagree that it could be the Israelites and that there's time that goes on I, but I think you can also relate it to how individuals come to know Christ eventually over time, right?
Speaker 1:I see, here's what I think, here's what I think. You had these three groups of people that came in at the third, the sixth and the ninth hour, right? Yep, the householder. He says to them he doesn't say I'm going to give you a penny, he just says go in the vineyard and work and I will give you what is right. And they go in. Now that suggests to me, and I'm open for disagreement or agreement. I always like agreement if I can get it, but to me this resembles a people that are willing to get from God. Like Lazarus, I will take the crumbs that fall from the master's table, whatever it is, just take me. You know what I mean. So I'm seeing here Grace at work Because he says come in, you can work, I'm going to give you a wage. And the thing is it requires Faith and trust on the part of those who come in there, because they have to believe he's going to do what he says.
Speaker 2:Another point, though, if I remember the parable correctly, some were idle yeah they all were. They had no hope. Right, you know. They just had nothing to do. They had no hope, they didn't know where they were going and he gave them a vision. I like that, a hope you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it says that all of the guys, except for the first group, all of them were idle in the. I like that. Not only did they agree to trust that the householder would give them whatever was right, they were probably willing to do that because the more the day went on, the less likely they would get work.
Speaker 3:You see what I mean Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1:So I look at it this way Yep, Yep.
Speaker 1:So I look at it this way the closer that people get to death, or the closer I should say death, I would say closer to the time the Lord between, closer to the time when the Lord is going to return, because he comes in the parable at the 11th hour, Because he comes in the parable at the 11th hour, he comes at the 11th hour. So these people, they believe. It seems to me and you guys can tell me what you think it seems to me that as time goes on, for some who have a proclivity to believe, or that God has given them one, it seems that he they're convinced that they need to be urgent and they need to be open and they need to accept whatever he gives them. Like I'm sure that if I ask any of you, you're not going to say that I expect God to give me this or that Now. We expect salvation for faith, but we also know that the faith that we have he gave us. Does anybody disagree with that? That the faith we have he gave us?
Speaker 1:Wow I got you hesitating on that, all right.
Speaker 3:Let me digest this one a bit. Was faith or not? Well, scripture does say that he can harden your heart and soften your heart. So all I know is that I get a chuckle out of that when you're talking about the workers Cause one time I was a teamster in Las Vegas. You know, and you go through, yeah, you go through the list and it's like man, I need to work, I need to get this, I need to get some work, and I'm on, you know, and they call you out, they call you out and you're so desperate at the end you don't care what the wage, you don't know if. You don't care what the way, you don't know if. You don't care if you're getting a split, differential or not differential. You just want to work, you know.
Speaker 3:So I get a chuckle out of that. But yeah, I think I don't know. I I kind of feel like we, there's a little I don't. I feel like there's some personal responsibility for your faith. Well, just just, yeah, just by what Paul says, I do what I don't want to do and it's kind of like an internal battle, but God gives me the faith right.
Speaker 1:So when Paul says a common verse we've all heard. Paul says by grace you have been saved through faith, and that meaning the faith is not not of yourselves, but it is a gift of god. So how do you, how do you, how do you respond to that?
Speaker 2:with what you said, right? So what? I hear todd saying that. Todd, you tell me if I'm no, no wait, hold on.
Speaker 1:Hold on one second.
Speaker 3:Sorry, I want to hear what todd says without, without coaching, okay yeah, I, I look at it as, like God gives you the faith. I don't deny that, because I went through kind of a Calvinist period of being elect, you know, kind of thing. So I know that there's a calling. Yeah, I'm a little stumped by that. God gives me the faith, there's no doubt about that. But the exercise of that faith because I go through periods of non-trust, you know, not trusting or whatever, and then it's kind of a vicious cycle where you just kind of like you know, and then you give yourself over and then God makes things right and it's like, wow, I should have trusted you in the beginning. And then over time, as I'm older, now, it's less and less.
Speaker 1:Now see, that I wouldn't argue with. I totally agree with you on that one. I believe that the faith you've been given you exercise, yes, but I believe that the faith was completely a gift. Now, you have a lot of people that say things like this. You have a lot of people say things like this. They'll say God gave me a gift and I just rejected it.
Speaker 1:But see, this isn't the way receiving a gift from God is to be understood, because 1 Corinthians 7 tells us that the gifts and the high calling of god are irrevocable. Now, but, but in rome, but in ephesians 2 8, when he says that the faith is a gift from god, he adds something that's very important, which is when he says that that faith that he gives you is not of yourselves. And that's the and that's the key, right there? Right, because otherwise you can make an argument that the faith, that the gift was offered and you said, ah, no, I don't like it, uh, I don't want that. But when he says that this is a gift from god but not of yourself, that's different. It's sort of like what isaiah says that god was found by those who did not seek him right that god was found by those who did not seek him, right.
Speaker 1:So how can a believer who believes, how? How do they seek god? How do they find god when they weren't looking for him? And that's the big thing, big rave. You were gonna say something. I cut you off, brother, go ahead I I.
Speaker 2:I agree and what you're saying. So understand where I'm coming from. I agree with what you're saying. So I understand where I'm coming from. I agree with what you're saying, but in the light of the parable we're looking at tonight.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I also see something like you know, that passage that says come unto me all you who are burdened, and heavily burdened.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:Like he was telling them come.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And they responded you know. And so, yes, we get faith by hearing of the word of God and when the word of God is activating in our lives, that's God working in our lives. Absolutely, but I believe wholeheartedly the word covenant is an ongoing thing with God, with humanity. Right, it's not that he makes them off the hook. They have something, something. It's hard to put it in words, but some kind of response.
Speaker 1:I agree with that. I like what you said there. Now here's something else. So we got down into the parable and in verse 6 it says