The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: Essential Baptism (PART 2 of 4)
Dive into one of Christianity's most heated theological debates: the true meaning and necessity of baptism. This riveting conversation explores the fundamental question that has divided denominations for centuries – is baptism merely symbolic of salvation, or is it necessary for salvation itself?
The discussion opens with a clear declaration that baptism and communion are the two sacraments left to the church, before quickly diving into the theological tension. As participants examine key passages like Acts 2 (Peter at Pentecost) and Acts 8 (the Ethiopian eunuch's conversion), the conversation reveals profoundly different interpretations of seemingly straightforward scriptures.
What made this exchange particularly fascinating was watching believers who share deep respect for one another navigate their disagreements with both passion and grace. When examining Jesus' own baptism, participants offered varied perspectives on what it meant for Christ to be baptized "to fulfill all righteousness" – was he identifying with sinners? Transitioning priesthoods? Simply modeling obedience?
The discussion reaches its most illuminating moment when participants acknowledge their common ground: all believe baptism is vital for believers. As one beautifully expressed, baptism is "like the marriage ceremony for the Christian being married to Christ." The question isn't whether Christians should be baptized, but whether someone who genuinely believes yet dies before baptism faces eternal consequences.
Whether you're wrestling with questions about baptism, fascinated by theological debates, or simply enjoy thoughtful Christian discourse, this episode offers profound insights on a sacrament central to Christian faith. Listen now and join the conversation that's been shaping Christian practice for two thousand years.
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Of our divine connection to the almighty and my sister Heaven's Life. She got it right, not that me telling her that is what makes it right, but my understanding from what she said is correct. There are two sacraments that are left to the church, that is baptism and that is communion, plain and simple, plain and simple. And these two things are the things that we are to do after we become Christian and, like my brother Greg here said, this is a very simple thing. Baptism is not for unbelievers, it is for believers.
Speaker 2:So can I ask a question? Sure, at Pentecost, when Peter preached the first gospel sermon to the Israelites and told them that they were guilty of having unalive the son of God Right, and the scripture says they were pricked in their hearts and they cried out to the apostles what must we do? So is that crowd, are you saying that crowd is saved, that to save that he was speaking to.
Speaker 1:Here's what I'll say Paul Peter told people to be baptized for the same reason we were just talking about. It's a sacrament to the church. It is something that we as a church body do, that we do like, for instance, with communion. We take communion and we take the wine and the bread, and these things are done in remembrance of our Lord and Savior, jesus Christ, but it's a spiritual truth Absolutely, and baptism is what I'm asking you.
Speaker 2:Is the crowd that Peter addressed? Were they saved?
Speaker 1:I don't know if the people were saved. What I do know is this what I do know is this is that anybody who was saved wanted to be baptized, and I'm talking about water baptism.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what we're talking about right there at Pentecost. That's what we're talking about right now.
Speaker 1:We're talking about Pentecost, but we're also saying that we're also talking about because the distinction that we're going to make later on is the difference between water baptism and the Holy Spirit's baptism.
Speaker 2:Right, but why can't you answer my question right now? I just answered it.
Speaker 1:I don't know if they're saved or not. I don't know who was saved and who wasn't.
Speaker 2:It says they were pricked in their heart and they asked what must we do being pricked in the heart and they ask what must we do being pricked in the heart and asking what must I do doesn't mean that I know who was actually saved.
Speaker 1:back then You're assuming that everybody who was pricked in the heart was saved. I'm not assuming that. Now I could be wrong for not assuming that, but that is not what is clear in Scripture. I didn't make that statement.
Speaker 2:I just asked you a question.
Speaker 1:I understand and my answer was I don't know.
Speaker 2:Okay, All right. I don't know, but I'll also say this you don't know and I didn't make the statement that I did. I just asked the question.
Speaker 1:I know, but what I'm saying is but let me ask you a question. Do you know?
Speaker 2:I can tell you what I believe. What do you believe and based on and this is what I'm basing it on, okay, right, just so you understand where I'm coming from.
Speaker 3:I got it.
Speaker 2:I'm basing it on Matthew 16 chapter, with Jesus asking his disciples you know who do people say that I am Right. And Peter made that great confession, mm-hmm. And he said he was giving Peter the keys to the doors of the kingdom of heaven. Right, and Peter made that great confession. And he said he was giving Peter the keys to the doors of the kingdom of heaven. Right, and whatsoever he bound on earth would be bound in heaven. Whatsoever he loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven. Right. So Peter preaching the first gospel sermon to the Jews at Pentecost we know he did the same thing at the Gentiles at Cornelius' house. So that's why I was asking you, the crowd, that he told them that they were guilty of unaliving the Son of God. This obviously moved them to. It appears that they had a sense of guilt and they were crying out, asking the apostles what must we do, right? So I don't see saved people, already saved, asking what must we do? So you don't think?
Speaker 1:that any of the people who we would, who we would call apostates, or people that turned away from the faith, from the faith after they have gone to church for 20, 30, 40 years, you don't think these people, at some point in their lives, were pricked in their hearts?
Speaker 2:Well, you're taking me away from the Pentecost situation. Is what I'm dealing with? It's the Pentecost. You can take me to another situation. No, no, but I'm not taking another situation. Because this happens.
Speaker 1:this comes after Christ. He's gone, he's ascended right, so this happens, this comes after Christ.
Speaker 3:He's gone, he's ascended right. So what I'm?
Speaker 1:saying we're talking about the same time frame, the same time period which is right now.
Speaker 2:So you're asking me if people fall into apostasy.
Speaker 1:Brother, what I'm saying is this there's a difference between somebody being pricked in their heart and somebody having their heart changed in my mind oh yeah, I know what you mean, because you know that's what got Stephen Stone.
Speaker 2:The Sanhedrin was pricked in their heart. Right, they did something evil instead of something good. You know, I get what you're saying, Right.
Speaker 1:So what I'm saying is I cannot conclude from any evidence from the scripture that those who were pricked in the heart pricked were saved people.
Speaker 2:They may have been but that doesn't make them saved. If you will allow me to go a little bit more, there are a few verses down from that. It says they that gladly received his word were baptized and they were added to them. So you just confirmed what I'm saying. Okay, a few verses down. It says and god added daily to the church such as were being saved.
Speaker 1:But, brother, what I'm saying is what you're saying right now in those verses are perfect affirmation for what I'm saying. It wasn't everybody, I didn't say everybody, I know, I'm just saying, but it seemed like and I don't want to put words in your mouth because I know you disagree with me on this, so I don't want to put words in your mouth, so what I'm saying it felt like that when you were presenting those who are pricked in the heart, you were presenting them as people who were saved because they were pricked in the heart. No, sir, all right.
Speaker 2:No, not at all. So then I apologize.
Speaker 1:I apologize if I if I concluded incorrectly.
Speaker 4:Can I ask a clarifying?
Speaker 2:question so.
Speaker 4:I don't get more lost.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, go ahead, evan's live Go ahead.
Speaker 4:So your question, jonathan, was are they condemned if they're not baptized? Right, big Gravy? Your answer was that it is essential which I would say it being essential would still line up with what I had said that you could be saved and not baptized. Yet everybody who's saved will walk that road right? I don't know, and so this is just clarifying for me, vic Ravy, do you believe that somebody is not saved until they're baptized?
Speaker 2:I believe that's what Peter taught at Pentecost.
Speaker 4:Okay, so you believe that they are not saved until they have been immersed in water?
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm based on what Peter told them at Pentecost. Yes, all right, okay, I understand.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Because a few verses down as I was going to follow up. If you look at a few verses down, because the brother thought that I met all those that were pricked in the heart A few verses down, it clarifies that they that gladly received his words were baptized and it was about 3,000 souls that responded.
Speaker 1:But here's what I want to say to that brother the fact that those who were baptized, they were baptized because they believe, not the other way around. That's not what Peter said. That is what Peter. Okay, well, we'll go through the verses and see, we'll go through the verse, because you're my brother, but you're wrong, but you're wrong and so, and so the thing about it is because what that? But with that, with that, basically, what that basically does is basically it gives the Catholics a good argument Just baptize the baby?
Speaker 2:I don't believe that, brother Well, but they got baptized, I said, but I don't believe in baptizing babies and also they don't baptize babies, they sprinkle them. But the point, another point that I could make, and I don't want to. You know, it's because I'm in opposition. We're talking about baptism, so I want to hear the opposition.
Speaker 2:Sure, if you. If you look at the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch, right, this guy is a religious guy. He's just coming from worship, right? So Philip, one of the seven, the Holy Spirit tells him to go through the desert and and meet this guy. So he's sitting in a chariot reading from the book of Isaiah. He doesn't understand what he's reading. He's reading from, I think, isaiah 53. So the spirit tells Philip to go and draw himself to the chariot. Philip goes and he asked the man, do you understand what you're reading? Right? The man said how can I accept some man explaining it to me? Right, philip goes up in the chariot and sees that he's reading that scripture. He was led like a lamb, done before a shearer, and so he asked him so who is this talking about? Some man or another? Philip, at that point, began to preach unto him Christ. He didn't say anything about believing. He didn't say anything about repentance. He didn't say anything about baptism.
Speaker 1:He didn't say wait, let me get this straight. You're making an argument that Peter didn't say anything about believing. No, that's not Peter. This is Philip. Okay, philip, whoever we forget, okay, forget it, we know what you're talking about. Yeah, so you're saying that Philip didn't say anything about believing, but this person was saved because they were baptized.
Speaker 2:No, you didn't let me. You didn't let me do the story.
Speaker 6:Well, I did say that brother.
Speaker 1:Well, hold on, let's go ahead, don't, don't.
Speaker 2:don't put words in my mouth because I didn't say no.
Speaker 6:I said, philip said that big gravy. Philip said OK, thank you, now watch this, I mean you can read it.
Speaker 2:Big Ravy. Philip said okay, thank you, now watch this, I mean you can read it. But this is what happened After he preached unto him Jesus. The point I'm trying to get you to say the text just says that he preached unto him Jesus, right, right. The man who didn't understand what he was reading suddenly said here is water. What is hindering me from being baptized? And Philip told him if you believe, you may. If you believe with all your heart, you may. And he said I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. So they both got out of the chariot, he took him down into the water and baptized him. And what's your point? The point I'm trying to make is how did the man know that he needed to be baptized when he didn't?
Speaker 1:understand what he was reading. Brother, the words that you read contradict you, not me, because you're not here, because I want to get around other people. Here's the thing. You, you, you yourself rightly quoted the passage thing. You yourself rightly quoted the passage. He asked what hinders me from the baptismal waters, Am I correct?
Speaker 2:Right, but the point I was trying to make to you is how did he know?
Speaker 1:The issue is not about how he knew. The issue is this you said you read the verse properly and you read it right and correctly. He asked the question what does hinder me from being baptized? And what did he say hindered?
Speaker 2:him. He says if you believe with all your heart, you may. If you believe with all your heart, you may. But that was not the point I was making, bro. That's the point of this conversation. Yeah, but the point I was trying to make to you is the apostles, they all preach the same message and so the point is, when he pre, you can't preach the gospel of christ and not require a person to be baptized.
Speaker 1:That's all through the book of baptism, which one of the apostles were baptized. In every single example, jerry, jerry, which one of the apostles were baptized.
Speaker 2:I can't answer that question. I don't know, because none of them were. I don't know. Does the Bible say they weren't?
Speaker 1:All right, here's the thing. We can make arguments all we want.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm going by what you just told me.
Speaker 1:I understand that. I understand that, but let's take it a step further. Let's take it a step further when it comes to baptism. How many people under the old covenant were baptized, jerry, yes, sir. How many of the people, how many of the believers, believers under the old covenant were baptized?
Speaker 2:The only one that I can mention, of the one that went through the Red Sea.
Speaker 1:That's not the same situation. I know what you're talking about the baptism of the Red Sea. I understand that. What I'm asking you is where do you see anywhere in the Old Testament any of the Old Testament saints being baptized by water?
Speaker 2:I just gave you the only thing that I knew about that wasn't baptism.
Speaker 1:It was called baptism Because in the Red Sea it wasn't like, the people that were in the Red Sea got dunked, actually in physical water.
Speaker 2:Well, brother, let me ask you.
Speaker 1:But, Jerry, here's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Wait, wait, wait. Did the scripture say it was baptism.
Speaker 1:Here's what I'm saying Wait, wait, wait, did the scripture say it was baptism? Here's what I'm asking you. We can talk about the Red Sea anytime you want. I'm not talking about the Red Sea.
Speaker 2:I'm asking you did the scripture say it was baptism Jerry?
Speaker 1:Jerry, hold on for a second. I know you're passionate about this as equally as I am, and I knew this particular subject would be a hot topic for a lot of people. I know you knew. But if you don't mind, please kind of go along with me on this one. Okay, all right, all right, please. Yes, sir. Now here's what I want to ask you. I don't want to go off on a rabbit hole, but I'm asking you this aside from the Red Sea okay, aside from the Red Sea, because I know what you're talking about they were baptized in the Red Sea. We could also say that Pharaoh's army was baptized in the Red Sea, but we know they weren't saved. So my question is this outside of the baptism of the Red Sea and the baptism that we're talking about today, that you are saying that Christians must do in order to be saved, this baptism that people must do today to be saved, where do you see this happening? Anywhere in the Old Testament?
Speaker 2:I don't believe I ever said it happened in the Old Testament.
Speaker 1:I'm just Jerry, I'm not trying to trick. You believe I ever said it happened in the Old Testament. I'm just Jerry, I'm not trying to trick you.
Speaker 2:I'm just asking a question. Did you see it? I'm answering honestly. I don't see where it was done like that in the Old Testament.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's all. That's, brother. That's all I'm asking. I'm not trying to trick you up, that's all I'm asking. And what you're saying about the Red Sea, I know where you're going and I agree, I totally agree, I totally agree. I'm what I'm getting at is biblical precision, plain and simple. That's all I'm trying to do and I'm not trying to undermine you know, because my brother, I got, like I said, I got great respect for you. I know we differ on this issue and but I just want to make sure that we're calling strikes when they're strikes and balls in their balls.
Speaker 2:That's all you and I have had a long talk. Right, I get it. You know we both believe in precision. Yes, I know we do. So I'm thinking of what Peter said when he said you just mentioned when we were talking about Noah, he said baptism does also save now, and he was talking about water baptism.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get to that verse, Jerry. I'm going to get to that verse in 1 Peter 3. I'm going to get to that.
Speaker 2:You're missing time.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, all right. So now in Matthew, chapter 3, verse 15 through 17, we have the baptism of our Lord, our Lord Jesus Christ. Here's what it says. Jesus, answering, said unto him to John the Baptist. That is because, remember John the Baptist, or Jesus wants John the Baptist to baptize him. John the Baptist says no, I need to be baptized by you. You're asking me. So Jesus says to him suffer it or allow it to be so now. For thus this is what Jesus says, for thus it becomes us to fulfill all righteousness that John the Baptist suffered him. So John the Baptist baptized Christ and Jesus. In verse 16,. When he was baptized, he went up straightway out of the water and lo, the heavens were opened unto him and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon him and lo, a voice from heaven saying this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased.
Speaker 6:I got a question. Go ahead, Meg. What did it mean when Jesus said to fulfill all righteousness? What was he saying to John in that?
Speaker 1:moment. Well, that's the question I definitely want to ask, but before that, I have another question that I want to proceed, that for all of you, which is this why did Jesus need to be baptized? Anybody, greg, you have an answer for that one.
Speaker 5:Well, here's the way, here's my understanding of it. You know, back in the, you know, in the old covenant, you know they had this bronze laver, right the molten sea, and the priests had to get in, get into it and be baptized, if you would Right, they had to get into it and and wash themselves. You know, before they it was for the Levites. You know the Levitical priesthood before they did their service, you know their temple service and such. So at that moment, you know the Levitical priesthood before they did their service, you know their temple service and such. So at that moment you know John. You know John was from the tribe of Levi, right, his father was a Levite priest. And the way I see it is, it's a passing off of the Levitical priesthood to Jesus and the Melchizedek priesthood. That's just how I see it. I don't know. Okay.
Speaker 1:Anybody else? Jerry, you got an idea on that one. Why did Jesus need to be baptized?
Speaker 2:I don't think he needed to be. I think he had to be. Why? To fulfill all righteousness that was part of his father's designation.
Speaker 1:Right, and so he did say to fulfill all righteousness. But what aspect of the righteousness of Christ or the righteousness he's talking about?
Speaker 2:needed to be fulfilled, Everything that he sent for us, everything that his father sent for him to do.
Speaker 1:OK we'll leave it at that. We'll leave it at that. I will open up that.
Speaker 3:But more or less I'm with you on that, you know, because what's that, Nicole? He needed to be baptized for all of heaven to come down on him.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing At the top of the conversation I mentioned what the definition of baptism was. To be baptized, it means to identify with it's baptizo identification, identifying, and so I, and so I believe I'm open for disagreement. I know where jerry's thoughts on this that's my brother, but I know what he thinks on this. But we, as believers, get baptized to identify with Christ we. Our baptism symbolizes his death, burial and resurrection. It symbolizes it. It also symbolizes the pledge of a good conscience that we now have toward God. So the only reason why Jesus would get baptized because this ritual wasn't an old covenant ritual, it was a new covenant ritual, which we didn't see until John the Baptist started doing it. Now there were ceremonial washings that people that you might want to identify with these kinds of things, and I wouldn't argue that here or there. But my point is Christ in his baptism was identifying as well. But what was he identifying with?
Speaker 3:Who.
Speaker 1:Who is Christ? Who can we say that Christ was identifying with by his baptism?
Speaker 2:Based on how you define baptism. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I talk kind of long.
Speaker 3:I would say God, that was when.
Speaker 1:I say I don't have it. You say Christ was identifying with god and well, he was.
Speaker 3:That was, I feel like that baptism. Was god coming down, like don't get me wrong like he was already in the flesh, but that was that baptism that he had. Was god bringing everything down? All right?
Speaker 1:All right. Well, let's see. Mitch, what do you think is the reason why Christ was baptized Heaven's life? Are you there, sister? Yeah, I'm here. In your mind, what do you think that Christ was identifying with with his baptism?
Speaker 4:What do I think he was identifying with? I would think that it would be the Jews in the house of Israel, the rest of everybody that was being baptized by John the Baptist. I think it had everything to do with the priesthood going from, you know, Levitical into the order of Melchizedek to fulfill all righteousness. It was, as Hyde said, a ritual cleansing.
Speaker 1:Lisa, what do you think?
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:Who is Christ identifying with?
Speaker 7:I'd say he's identifying with the Father. I'd say he's identifying with the father. I mean, this is a hard one for me. Just an FYI for everybody.
Speaker 1:But here's the thing, lisa, and everybody listening, these are hard topics. These are hard topics and they need to be dealt with, because here's the thing. Here's the thing. All of us are here, ok, and we have my brother, big Gravy, who, him and I are obviously at odds on this issue, but here's the thing what do we tell? But what do we tell Christians? What do we tell people who are considering the faith? What do we tell them? That's why we're having this conversation, not to go at each other's throat.
Speaker 7:No.
Speaker 1:Okay, but to try to understand what is happening Now, unless we believe my definition is wrong, that baptism means to identify, to identify with which anybody here can look at any lexicon and find this out. But that's what it means.
Speaker 7:Okay. So, that being said, I'm looking at Grammy K's comments and that makes sense to me. I don't know if it's what you're looking for, jonathan, but the people that get baptized, it's a symbol of you know, we're being reborn. It's a symbol of rebirth, our sin being buried and raised to new life. So is he identifying with the sinners that would? I don't know. I don't know what you're.
Speaker 1:That's what I would say.
Speaker 7:Okay, that's what I would say. That's Grammy K Amen.
Speaker 1:We were, we are we. By our baptism, we are identifying with Christ. We are saying that this man has gone to the cross, died, buried and was resurrected for my sins. I believe it and therefore I identify with that. And now that I believe it, what does hinder me, like Brother Jerry was saying, from being baptized? Well, because I believe nothing hinders me.
Speaker 7:May I add something real? Just what I, what I thought is remember that when we're not born again, we're still adversarial to God. Right the Holy spirit, we are baptized by fire and therefore he draws us to be obedient and be baptized. Before that, we have no why. Why would anybody be baptized in the first place If they're not a believer?
Speaker 1:right, well, not born again, not born again.
Speaker 7:I mean, yeah, the baby baptisms from the Catholic church, but you didn't. You know, you didn't have any choice in that, so that one doesn't never make sense to me again. Another thing that never made sense, but so it is an act that I think every believer should do. I don't understand, if you're a believer, why you wouldn't.
Speaker 1:But I agree, I agree and I believe that me and Jerry Mitchell all believe the same thing. I believe 100 percent. He and Jerry and Mitchell all believe the same thing. I believe 100%. I believe 100% and I want to make sure that this is very clear Anybody who is a Christian, everybody who is a Christian, should be baptized, and not only that you should want to be baptized. It is like the marriage ceremony for the Christian being married to the Christ. It is like the marriage ceremony for the Christian being married to the Christ. So it, like somebody says here, is it is a sign of devotion toward God. That's what it is. It is a sign. It is a symbol of devotion toward God, just like communion, which we still continue to do as often as we do. We do this unto the Lord, until he comes.
Speaker 2:Could I ask you to read a few passages, brother?
Speaker 1:Hold on for a second. We'll come back to that, because I know where you're going to go.
Speaker 2:Just write on what you're talking about. All right go ahead If you could read Colossians, chapter 2, verses 11, 12, and 13.
Speaker 1:Let's see Hold on Colossians, chapter 2, verses 11, 12, and 13. Let's see Hold on Colossians.
Speaker 2:Chapter 2, verses 11, 12, and 13. Yeah, I'll read it.
Speaker 1:Colossians 2, 11. Okay, in whom you are also circumcised, with the circumcision made without hands and putting off the body of sins, of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with him in baptism, wherein you also are risen with him through the faith of operation of God, who has raised him from the dead and you being, and you being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses so in my understanding, that is telling us what happens in baptism, which is in your mind, what god is circumcising the heart, removing the filth of sin from us right?
Speaker 1:so? So let me ask you the question. Then Let me play devil's advocate a little bit. So, would you assume, are you saying that everyone in Israel who was circumcised, would you say they were all saved?
Speaker 2:You're talking about physical circumcision.
Speaker 1:That's what this is talking about.
Speaker 2:No, this is talking about spiritual. It said not made with hands. I understand.
Speaker 1:I understand that, but there's a lot of similarities between baptism and circumcision.
Speaker 2:Yes and so, and you said baptism was symbolic. If this is symbolic, it says not made with hands of spiritual.
Speaker 1:I understand, but what I'm saying is this Would you so you would say that those who were circumcised were not saved, but that those who are, who believe but are not baptized, they're not saved, that those who believe but are not baptized, they're not saved? Say that again. Okay, you would say, on one hand, that those who are circumcised are not necessarily saved. Do we agree?
Speaker 2:No, I would say right here, those who are circumcised. I know.
Speaker 1:I'm just asking you. We read the scriptures. I know what it says.
Speaker 2:Are you talking about the old covenant or are you talking about now?
Speaker 1:I'm asking you about circumcision under the old covenant.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, Well see, that's a clarification.
Speaker 1:But the only way I understand, but the only way you could know what circumcision was in this passage is if you knew what it was under the old covenant.
Speaker 2:Under the old covenant it was a physical covenant and if it wasn't kept, God said you'd be cut off. Here's what I'm asking. Am I right?
Speaker 3:If it wasn't kept.
Speaker 1:God said Uh-oh, he got cut out there. All right, anyway, let's move on then. All right, let's move on. All right, let's move on Because. So let's come to Acts, chapter two. Acts, chapter two Peter says repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the Holy Ghost. Now, a controversy with this verse. There is a lot of controversy with this verse.
Speaker 6:So I mean, can I just bring a point to it real quick? Sure, so in the Old Testament we believed. They believed in the Holy Spirit. They were well aware of the Spirit, they were well aware of God, but they were talking to Jews at this time when this was happening.
Speaker 1:So, in order, You're talking about Acts, chapter 2?
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, there was a lot of people that were there.
Speaker 6:But Jesus was the bridge that they were trying to get people to understand and receive Christ, right, right. So this is why they said Jesus' name correct, right, okay.
Speaker 1:So now here's the thing. Correct, right, Okay? So now here's the thing. So Peter says unto them repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:And for the record, this whole conversation and the reason why I put this together for tonight really wasn't to deal with what we're talking about, what I'm going back and forth with with my brother Jerry about, but the real issue that I was bringing up was I told you, I got, I got, I got assaulted. I got an internet assault by a member of Gino Jennings church, and, and, and this guy was saying you know, one of the questions that he asked me was when you get baptized, do you get baptized in the name of Jesus or in the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit? He made a big deal about this. Now I know what they think about it. So what they believe is that when you get baptized, they say they go further than what my brother Jerry goes. They say that if you go through a baptism after having come to faith, then when you go to be baptized, you must be baptized with the words being said that you are baptized in the name of Jesus, only Don't say the Father and Son and the Holy Ghost. If you say the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost in your baptism, that is not a baptism and you are not saved.
Speaker 1:That's what this whole this subject tonight was really about, but I knew it would open up other cans of worms that we're dealing with in terms of the water baptism itself. But really what I'm dealing with in terms of the water baptism itself, but really what I'm dealing with right now is the name, because you know the baptism, the baptism you know being for, you know being a thing for salvation. It's not really the kind of thing I really delve into too much nowadays because I think it's a simple thing. You know, with all due respect to my respect to my brothers in Christ who believe differently, I think this is a no-brainer Baptism. Water baptism doesn't save anyone. It doesn't save anyone. It is grace through faith and that alone, nothing else.
Speaker 1:You can say that Peter said this, that John said this, that Paul said this or whatever, none of them. Nobody in the Bible says that if you have not been saved by the water baptism, you're going to hell, regardless of whether or not you believe or not. I cannot believe that. I don't see that anywhere in the Bible and I can't see any possibility what I would ever be able to tell somebody that, because if that is true, it has to be part of the gospel.
Speaker 2:I'll let you go on with with the other part that you want to talk about in the name. But if you look at Acts 22, verse 16, this is Paul rehearsing his own conversion. Right when Ananias came to him. I got it. Yeah, he told him what are you waiting for? Get up and be baptized, washing away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Right, I don't say these things just to blow in the wind. I say it because I'm reading it right here in scripture If there's one thing, jerry, listen to me.
Speaker 1:I want to make sure you understand this, brother. One thing that I know about you is that you don't say anything, that you're blowing in the wind. And here's what I will say, and I said this earlier today. I may.