The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: 70 Weeks of Daniel - INTRO (PART 2 of 5)
The prophecies of the Old Testament aren't scattered puzzle pieces pointing to various future events—they form a cohesive portrait of Jesus Christ and His redemptive work. This profound revelation emerged during our exploration of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy, arguably one of the most misunderstood and overanalyzed passages in Scripture.
We begin by establishing a crucial foundation: all 300+ Old Testament prophecies point directly to Christ and His first coming. This isn't merely theological preference, but a recognition of Scripture's internal consistency. When we approach Daniel 9:24-27 through this lens, the implications are transformative for how we understand biblical prophecy.
The numerical precision of Daniel's prophecy is striking—70 weeks representing 490 years, mirroring the 70-year Babylonian captivity that preceded it. But what's most revealing are the six specific accomplishments that would mark the completion of these weeks: finishing transgression, ending sin, reconciliation for iniquity, bringing everlasting righteousness, sealing up vision and prophecy, and anointing the most holy. These aren't descriptions of end-time events but the completed work of Christ.
What you won't find in this passage is any explicit mention of a "tribulation period"—a startling revelation for many who have built eschatological frameworks on this very text. The "troublous times" referenced specifically describe Jerusalem's rebuilding before Christ's arrival, not future tribulation. This textual precision matters immensely when constructing theological frameworks.
Join us as we peel back layers of traditional interpretation to discover the Christ-centered heart of prophecy. Understanding these ancient words correctly doesn't diminish their relevance but enhances it—showing how God's redemptive plan has always been focused on Jesus, making His Word eternally relevant for every believer in every age.
Have you considered how a Christ-centered approach to prophecy might transform your understanding of Scripture? Share your thoughts and join us next time as we continue exploring how Jesus fulfills every prophetic word.
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The gatekeeper. That's right. He comes into the sheepfold once those are all there because his will is being done on the planet as we speak those who are hearing his word here. From the beginning, I know I kind of think where. I know where you're going, but I'm just going to be quiet and let you keep talking.
Speaker 2:No, I like what you talk Lightberry, lightberry, lightberry. Any any input on this you want to add to this?
Speaker 3:so far, Lightberry, any input on this you want to add to this? So far, the only thing I can say is, for what I know from the scripture, jesus said you know the end will come and the gospel is preached through the whole world. Right, so I believe that until the whole world that means every nook and cranny of each culture has heard the gospel of Christ, I believe he will not come. Until that happens.
Speaker 2:Right, I believe that, and I believe that, that. I believe that what I was trying to convey earlier is that very thing. So I, I'm, I'm with you on that one, flavio. What do you think, brother? Oh, you're taking off, okay, yeah, I apologize. Yeah, god bless. All right, man, take it easy, brother I'm sorry no, worries, all right, so now.
Speaker 2:So now I'm coming to the book of daniel. But I want to ask you, I want to ask everybody, something else. In the old covenant, in the Old Testament, with the prophets, we have 300 prophecies, 300 prophecies, 300 prophecies. Now, what I want to ask you is to what end these prophecies, to what end were they given, meg? What do you think? What were the prophecies?
Speaker 5:of the old covenant. What were they talking and speaking to? I think the only answer that I have right now is the verse where it said every jot and every tittle will be completed. And if Christ's work is finished and it says that his work is finished, god doesn't lie, brother. So I I believe that his work is finished.
Speaker 2:I believe in the finished work of jesus christ death so my, but so my question is this, sister, my question is this are there any prophecies out of these 300 prophecies in the Old Covenant, in the Old Testament, out of these 300 prophecies, do any of them, are any of them pointing to something other than Christ himself?
Speaker 5:himself. No, I mean, no, I believe every like I said I believe everything is finished now. I mean that's what I believe now. Now, how you know what I mean. I believe that he, you know, he was the word, you know when it when in scripture, when it says the word cannot return unto God void, he was the word that did not return to the Father void.
Speaker 2:All right, nicole, are you there, sister?
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm here.
Speaker 2:All right. Out of the 300 prophecies lifted in the Old Testament, do any of those prophecies speak about anything other than Christ or beyond Christ?
Speaker 1:They speak about Christ.
Speaker 3:I know a lot of people feel like it doesn't, but I see it. We can go to Micah 5.2. Right.
Speaker 2:That's both to Christ. I know what you're talking about. That's both to Christ.
Speaker 1:It was in Deuteronomy.
Speaker 5:The answer is yes.
Speaker 1:Also it was I mean Genesis that I really almost feel like the second Samuel, isaiah 53.
Speaker 3:It's a lot that?
Speaker 2:what are they talking about?
Speaker 1:They're talking about. They're talking about Christ, they're talking about Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:Are any of them talking about anything other than Christ or anything that happens beyond Christ After his coming to earth and his ministry? This is what I'm getting at.
Speaker 1:Does any of them speak about him after his ministry? Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Really Like what.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1:It's just like it almost like kind of.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to think.
Speaker 2:Let me come back to you, Jerry. What do you think?
Speaker 6:Yes, I think all the prophecies point to Jesus, he's coming and he's fulfilling the law and the prophets and fulfilling all righteousness.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, esco, brother, how are you doing Good? How are you? I'm doing all right, glad you could make it up here with us, brother. Yes sir, yes sir, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 6:I think that Christ already came. He came inside of us. Yes, sir, yes sir, what are your thoughts? Prophecy that Christ already came. He came inside of us.
Speaker 2:Christ. Christ already came. So what I'm asking is this the prophecies, the 300 prophecies of the old covenant, of the Old Testament, the prophets, every prophecy they made, were they speaking about Christ or are they speaking about or any of them? Do any of them go beyond Christ or after his first coming?
Speaker 6:I don't believe, so, all right.
Speaker 2:So I'm in agreement with most of you guys. I don't know about Bill Keith Are you there, brother, because I haven't heard from you yet but I think he's sort of killing out. But anyway, all right. So I agree with that. I believe that all of the 300 prophecies that we were given, all, every single one of them, has to do with the Lord Jesus Christ, every one of them.
Speaker 7:Blessings with the Lord Jesus Christ. Every one of blessings. Can I ask you, how are you able to come up with that conclusion were you? Are you talking about the Bible?
Speaker 2:what else would I be talking about?
Speaker 7:the Bible. I mean. Well, how would you, how are you able to?
Speaker 2:let me ask you. Let me ask you a question was jesus christ at his first coming? Was he fulfilling all 300 prophecies that were stated in the old testament in your mind? No okay, so what? What prophecies were speaking about something different than him?
Speaker 7:so the the whole, entire prophecies was speaking about Christ's father, not Christ, right what it was speaking about Christ's father so you're saying that none of the Old Testament, none of the Old Testament prophecies were speaking about Christ?
Speaker 7:they're speaking about not the son, but the father yeah, let me give you an example in the book of Revelations. I'm going to give you two reference to prove my case, yo, the first reference is revelations, chapter 6, verse 16. All right, let me see if I can get it right quick can I ask you a question in the meantime, while you're looking?
Speaker 2:yes, sir was the father, the one virgin born yes so you don't believe that jesus christ is deity?
Speaker 7:when you say deity, I don't understand jesus god or not.
Speaker 2:This is simple brother. Was jesus god in the flesh or not?
Speaker 7:no, jesus was the son of god all right, so you're Jehovah's witness. No, I'm a Christian. No, you're not Jonathan. Jonathan, why you say I'm not a Christian?
Speaker 2:Jonathan, let me ask you a question, jonathan. No, hold on, brother, hold on.
Speaker 4:I know this guy. He's going to obstruct the whole life.
Speaker 2:Meg, you know what to do.
Speaker 6:Anyone who denies Christ is an antichrist.
Speaker 2:Meg, no, yeah, yeah, See, people like this. See, I'm going to tell you something else While we're here, brothers and sisters and I'm going to say this to all my Christian brothers and sisters who are on the panel and whoever is listening Whenever we engage in a conversation about the Lord, don't be a snake about what you believe, don't try to hide it and don't try to like sneak in your belief. Let people know what you believe and defend it. Amen, defend it. Don't be a snake Like that guy, people like him.
Speaker 2:They want to come in and you ask them a simple question and they should say you know what? By the way, I want you to know I'm a JW or I'm a Mormon or I'm a whatever. We should when we are dealing with the word of God. We should respect our Lord and respect his word and let people know where we stand, lord, and respect his word and let people know where we stand. But to me, this kind of thing is a serpent mentality. I'm going to sneak in, I'm going to slither in and I'm not going to let people know what I really think. So I'm going to let them flounder on these errors. I'm going to get off my high horse.
Speaker 5:We all just witnessed the rapture, Brother Jonathan.
Speaker 4:Jonathan, not to cross you. If we didn't do that, if we didn't send him down, this life would have been chaos. I've seen many lives. He's not a Christian, I know him. He just came to have shocked the whole life. So that was well done.
Speaker 2:Right. Thank you, brother. I appreciate that and I'm glad you gave me that warning too, because we're not going to have that. I mean, I got too much respect for the Lord, too much respect for his word and too much respect for his people that are here, that are here contributing like they always do in a very good way, and I got too much respect for his people that are here, that are here contributing like they always do in a very good way, and I got too much respect for the other people who are listening that are standing by. So I appreciate that and we'll keep going. I forgot where I was this past, but we'll get to it so you were talking about brother jonathan.
Speaker 5:You were talking about the 300 prophecies. Did and did jesus fulfill all of them?
Speaker 2:Right, Exactly so, Esco. I think I was left off with you. Were you talking before the interruption?
Speaker 6:Yeah, I told him that anybody who doesn't believe Jesus is God is an antichrist. That's when he left.
Speaker 2:Right so.
Speaker 6:I think I blew his cover, I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, God has a way of doing it. Good evening, Papa. How?
Speaker 8:are you brother? Hey, I guess I don't know. Well, you know, god has a way of doing it. Good evening Papa. How are you brother? Hey, I'm doing good. Listen, I just want to, if I may please. I just want to say one thing about that To deny the eternal ability of God to speak, you cannot separate God and his word.
Speaker 2:I know exactly where you're going with this one. I agree with you, brother. I really do.
Speaker 8:You know, in John 1, 1, when it says in the beginning was the word, the key word in all that scripture right, there is the word was Right. It's a durative perfection and what it means, the meaning of it was, it's an ongoing action. In other words, in the beginning was the word Right, not at the beginning. He was there at the beginning of the creation of all things. Is what that means Right?
Speaker 2:So what I want to do, Papa, because we were dealing with this issue I'm starting a series on 70 Weeks of Daniel and I know that over time your input will be invaluable, as well as other people here, but I know that you are a student of these things as well as I am, and so a lot of us here like this subject. But what I was dealing with was what were the 300 prophecies that the Old Testament made, and to whom and what were they being referred to? Now, so far, we sort of came to a consensus. Maybe there's some people that have varying ideas, but as a consensus we have concluded that the 300 prophecies of the Bible pointed to Christ and his work. And I asked a question were there any prophecies in the Old Testament that spoke to anything that is not Christ or beyond him? And I think that we're all agreed that they all pointed to him. Now, if anybody disagrees, what I just said because I don't want to misrepresent anybody Is that is anybody disagree with that? It's on the panel, not me.
Speaker 2:All right. So now that that leads me to the next, the next point. Thank you, george, george and the lion. So here's the next thing. If we believe this, if we believe this, this tells us something very significant about the 70 weeks of Daniel in Daniel 9, 24 through 27. It tells us something very significant If all of the prophecies of the old covenant, which would include Daniel's 70 week prophecy covenant, which would include Daniel's 70 week prophecy, if all of the prophecies, including Daniel's 70 weeks, point to Christ At his first coming, then that has a significant implication About how to interpret Daniel 9, 24 to 27. So my question is this what does that imply? Let me start with you, papa. What does that imply? If all 300 prophecies of the Old Covenant, of the Old Testament, if they all point to Christ and his first coming not beyond that, but his first coming then what does that tell us about our interpretation of Daniel 9?, jerry, what do you say?
Speaker 6:I can't comment on Daniel 9 until I read it again and study it. Okay, of course, as I stated before, everything, everything was about Jesus Christ and his imminent return absolutely so.
Speaker 2:Let's take what you said, Jerry, because you answered the question Actually. So the question is this If what you just said was true and I believe what you just said is 100% true so what does that tell you about Daniel 9 or any prophecy in the old covenant?
Speaker 6:Well, Daniel 9 would be prophesying about Christ.
Speaker 8:Absolutely, absolutely Does anybody disagree with that? No, eat the book. What's that? Eat the book. Christ is the book, he's it all. He's all of it.
Speaker 2:He is. So Daniel 9,. Let me read this. I'm gonna read, I'm gonna. I'm gonna start it because this is the introduction to the. I'm doing this whole, I'm gonna do this whole thing on this one, because I think it's necessary, because the whole word of god, all of it, has to be relevant for every Christian of every age. Does anybody disagree with that? All right, so we're saying we are all in agreement that everything in the word of God, whatever it says, has to have relevance to every Christian, every believer of every age. Relevant to every.
Speaker 2:Christian, every believer of every age, correct, right, all right. So for that to be so, that means that whatever we read in the Bible can have practical relevance to every Christian alive now, in the past or in the future, everything. So now I'm going to read these three verses, these four verses, I'm going to read it and then we're going to get into this. Daniel says 70 weeks, 70 weeks, are determined for your people and for the holy city, to finish the transgressions, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation, for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy. And he says know, therefore, and understand that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem, until Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks and 62 weeks, which is 69 weeks, the street shall be built again and the wall, even in troublesome times verse 26 and after the 62 and second week, the messiah watch this here. The messiah shall be cut off, but not for himself, and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of the end of it shall be with a flood. Until the end of the war, desolations are determined. Last verse Then he shall, the Messiah confirm the covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering and, on the wing of abominations, shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation which is determined is poured out on the desolate.
Speaker 2:Now I realize that to a lot of people, listening panel or otherwise, that may sound confusing. Now let's talk about something for a second. Daniel is a prophecy of 70 weeks. 70 weeks, just so you understand the math here, and this just should not require a whiteboard or a chalkboard and all the stuff that people do where they want to give you you know the timelines. Give you the timelines Very simple. There are 70 weeks that are determined. 70 weeks each week represents seven years. So Daniel is talking about a prophecy that is 70 times seven. That is 70 times seven, in other words, 490 years. Is everybody with me so far? Yep, all right. 490 years Each week represents seven years. Or 70 Sabbaths, right, all right. Sabbath, all right. Now Daniel says that he understood how to understand his prophecy from the prophecy of Jeremiah that God gave to Jeremiah regarding the captivity that the Israelites had to go into with Babylon. So my question, papa, is to you is this. How many years did God tell Jeremiah and Isaiah, who were contemporaries? How many years was the Babylonian captivity?
Speaker 8:Wow, you know what I forgot already. It was, I know, in. 586 BC is when Babylon came in and got Israel. It lasted for.
Speaker 1:Here's what I want to get at.
Speaker 2:Just keep it moving, ben. How many years was the Babylonian captivity?
Speaker 1:was it not around 500 years, 490, something like that?
Speaker 2:no, I mean, how long was the Babylonian captivity that Jeremiah and Isaiah prophesied about? How long was the babylonian captivity that jeremiah and isaiah prophesied about? How long was that babylonian captain?
Speaker 1:oh, 70 years. Yeah, I thought you meant historically wise, it was for around 70 years it was 70 years, yeah, 70 years. Yeah, actuality was what you were saying.
Speaker 2:409 yes, right, so you, that's. That's, that's right. The the Babylonian captivity was 70 years. So Daniel said that he understood the prophecy he received from the angel Gabriel about the 490 years, or the 70 times 7, the 77ths or the 490 years. So basically, he was able to understand his timeline, based on the prophecy that jeremiah and isaiah was given by god of the 70 year captivity. So just follow me here for a second, because I don't want to, I don't want to confuse it by by being too overloaded with words. So basically, the only difference between Daniel's vision, or the 70 weeks, and Jeremiah's, was Jeremiah was 70 consecutive years. So Daniel understood his week, his, his prophecy, to be 70, sevens and they would be consecutive sevens. In other words, it will be 490 consecutive years to the fulfillment of that prophecy that he gave. All right, so now I laid that foundation. Is everybody with me so far on that Disagreement agreement? Whatever, anybody, I'm understanding.
Speaker 2:All right. So now, this is what he says, and I'm going to start with this. I'm going to start right. So now, this is what he says, and I'm going to start with the verse 24. And I'm not going to go anywhere past verse 24 tonight. He says that 70 weeks are determined for your people in the holy city. And here's what he says. He's telling you. He's telling you what will be fulfilled During the 70 weeks. He's telling you what is going to be the end result Of these 70 weeks. What is going to be? What can we expect to see Completed by the time this 490 years is over? Is everybody with me.
Speaker 3:Does anybody agree or disagree?
Speaker 2:It will be. I agree, all right. So here's what he says. There are six things. There are six things that he said are going to take place, which is going to signify that the 70 weeks have been accomplished and fulfilled. One, to finish the transgression. Number two, to make an end of sins. Number three, to make reconciliation for iniquity. Number four, to bring in everlasting righteousness. Number five, to seal up vision and prophecy. Number six, to anoint the most holy. These are the six things that we are told that the prophecy that Daniel received were going to be fulfilled and accomplished at whatever time you think this 490 year ends. Now what I'm saying is being a little snarky and what I'm saying is that you have 70, sevens, 490 years.
Speaker 2:Most of us, I'm sure all of us, have heard about the quote unquote great tribulation, the seven year tribulation. Well, let me say something about that for a second. Well, let me say something about that for a second. If you look at, if you have your Bible with you and you look at Daniel 20, daniel nine, verses 24 through 27,. And I just read it, so and most everybody here heard me read it Did anybody hear me say or did you see anywhere where it talks about a tribulation period, anybody?
Speaker 2:no no, is it here now? I'm not asking whether or not. I'm not asking anybody if you believe in the seven-year tribulation or not. That's not. No, what I'm asking for is biblical precision. Does anything here say anything about that? No, nicole, no it doesn't say anything about a tribulation period all right, just hold it there, just leave it there, just leave it there, okay, because I'm, because I I'm expecting you to give me a butt and and there's no butts. Very, you see it here.
Speaker 4:Gary, you see it here.
Speaker 2:Gary, lisa, nope, let's go.
Speaker 3:I'm just going to go like 25.
Speaker 1:It does.
Speaker 3:It says in trouble is time.
Speaker 1:Like it's just. I mean, I'm like I like to read words All right.
Speaker 2:So this, this, this, this, even I'm dealing with verse 24. I'm gonna deal with that for a second for Nicole. Trouble is times. Trouble is time Doesn't sayous times, troublous times.
Speaker 2:Doesn't say tribulation, no, doesn't say anything about seven years, nothing like that. But here's what I want to say. Here's what I want to say. It says that in verse 25, know, therefore, and understand that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until the Messiah the Prince, there shall be 69 weeks, and that it will be built again in troubleless times. Now, here's your problem, nicole, because I know where you're going. Here's your problem. This happened before Christ was even born. This temple, the, the, the command to go and restore and build Jerusalem, was what was given to Cyrus the king and even in trouble.
Speaker 3:I'm not trying to go against what you're saying. Built Jerusalem was what was given to Cyrus the king Right, and even in trouble is time I'm not trying to go against what you're saying, no, no and even in trouble is time. That's like a foreshadowing. I know.
Speaker 2:No, but it's not a foreshadowing. You're reading there's no foreshadow. He is saying that when they are building the temple, it is going to be in trouble as times, but here's the key expression here that you need to look at. He says that the restoration and the building of Jerusalem would go up until Messiah the Prince, not after. You understand what I'm saying.
Speaker 6:Sounds to me like that's the body of Christ being fulfilled until the abomination of desolation comes.
Speaker 2:No, but I don't want to get there yet. Okay, because I want to deal with my sister and I want to make sure that I have, because I don't like to glaze over anything. I like to deal with it. So, nicole, what I'm asking is this it says here that the restoration in the building of Jerusalem that was being built in troublous times would be done up until Messiah, the Prince, up until the Messiah. So the seven year tribulation that you might be presupposing, according to this passage that you just brought up in verse 25, is it before Christ or after Christ?
Speaker 1:It's before because it says and after three square. And's before because then it says shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself and the people of the prince that shall come.
Speaker 2:Sister Nicole, I'm going to put this in the crudest terms possible. There ain't nothing wrong with your eyes. In the crudest terms possible. There ain't nothing wrong with your eyes. Sometimes I'm an idiot, all right now. So I want to make sure, before I go on, that you and me are on the same page with this. Do you agree with me that this building of the temple in troublous times takes place before the Messiah? Yeah,