The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: 70 Weeks of Daniel - INTRO (PART 3 of 5)
The concept of the temple stands as one of Scripture's most powerful symbols, yet countless believers today have been misled about its true meaning. In this provocative and enlightening discussion, we strip away centuries of confusion surrounding temple prophecy to reveal what Jesus Himself declared: "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
While modern dispensationalism has Christians anxiously awaiting a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, we explore the revolutionary truth that Jesus Christ is Himself the rebuilt temple that fulfills all Old Testament prophecies. More shocking still—you are part of that temple too. As living stones built on the foundation of apostles and prophets, believers constitute God's dwelling place on earth.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we examine Daniel's seventy weeks prophecy, particularly the six elements that would mark its fulfillment: finishing transgression, ending sin, reconciliation for iniquity, bringing in everlasting righteousness, sealing vision and prophecy, and anointing the most holy. When viewed through Christ's completed work, these prophetic elements reveal something radically different than what many popular teachers claim.
We also tackle the painful reality many sincere believers face: where do you go when churches themselves have fallen into confusion? One participant's journey from Catholicism to spiritual homelessness resonates deeply as we discuss the challenge of finding true biblical teaching in a landscape of denominational chaos.
This conversation will challenge your preconceptions, strengthen your understanding of Scripture, and perhaps most importantly, fill you with renewed appreciation for Christ's declaration that something "greater than the temple is here." Study God's Word for yourself and discover the freedom that comes from embracing the true temple—Christ in you, the hope of glory.
God, doubt, and proof walk into a podcast... it goes better than you’d expect!
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Nicole.
Speaker 2:I'm, I'm.
Speaker 1:I know you're having a hard time with this because of what you've been told, but I'm asking you what does your heart, your mind and your eyes tell you?
Speaker 2:It looks. I mean even my eyes and my heart and my mind is telling me that it was before.
Speaker 1:That's because it was Okay, that's because it was. Let me ask you a question, sister. I want everybody to listen, I want to hear, I want Nicole to talk about, I want her to answer this Do you remember when Jesus told told the pharisees in john, chapter 2? He said to them destroy this temple, in three days I'll raise it up again. You remember that? Absolutely do you remember what? Do you remember where he was standing when he said that?
Speaker 2:Oh, where was he standing?
Speaker 1:Because the Pharisees brought it up. Does? Anybody want to help her out In the synagogue.
Speaker 4:I honestly don't know where he was standing. He was standing in the temple.
Speaker 1:He was standing at the temple, oh yes. And Meg. What did the Pharisees say to him? Say to Jesus when he said, destroy this temple and in three days I'll raise it up, what did they say to him?
Speaker 4:They called him a blasphemer, didn't they?
Speaker 1:Nope.
Speaker 5:They said it took 70 years to build it.
Speaker 4:Oh, yes, he did. They said it took 70 years to build it and you can raise it up in three days, yep.
Speaker 2:But they were talking about his body and I feel like he was standing outside the temple.
Speaker 1:No, he was outside the temple. The temple was behind him, all right, but that's not the issue. The issue is the temple that we are talking about. Here is the one that was standing then. Right, you understand.
Speaker 2:Okay, I see what you're saying. As far as, like, this temple is the physical.
Speaker 1:Right. The temple that Jesus Christ was standing in front of at that time we just brought up that temple is the one that Daniel 9 was being built in Troublous Times and in fact it wasn't finished yet. And they told him that temple has been in construction for 50, whatever years and you're saying you're going to rebuild it in three days.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, absolutely All right. I get what you're saying when you go to John All right, but in your spirit, though, he was talking about himself.
Speaker 1:He was talking about himself, but that's a whole other subject.
Speaker 2:No, I know he was talking about himself in the three days but it's just.
Speaker 1:But see, I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you what I'm going to show you, nicole, later on, but I'm gonna give you guys. See, I don't like keeping secrets because I never know how many days the lord's going to give me, so I got to let it out before I go, all right, right? So dispensationalism has been teaching since the 18, middle of 1800s that there's going to be a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. And you got all these Christians running around with their hair on fire. Oh, my gosh, there's going to be a red heifer. Oh, oh, you know, the Messiah is going to come and he's the bomb. All this stuff, right, this rebuilt, rebuilt temple, first of all in jerusalem, is never going to happen right now let me say this even if it did, who gives a rat's rear end?
Speaker 1:forgive me, because it will be an unholy place where idol worship is observed that's exactly right and you got christians that are running around like they can't wait for it to happen, because, because it, whatever temple they build up in jerusalem, unless they are going to church to celebrate the birth, the death, the burial and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, it is a place of idol worship.
Speaker 5:I want to say something here and I'm going to say it and I don't care who likes it. Jimmy Swigert's into that. Oh yeah, I got something to say quick. I think you just opened my eyes up to one thing. I got something to say quick. I think you just opened my eyes up to one thing Is that the desolation. Of the desolation is going to be within the body, it is. It's not a temple. It's our temple, but we're the temple.
Speaker 6:That's right.
Speaker 5:That's where the Antichrist stands up as your flesh stands up in your temple and says I'm God. That's right. That's right. This is powerful. Now listen when Jesus sit there and said raising that temple in three days, three's the number of resurrection you all he was talking about you too. He's resurrecting you from the dead.
Speaker 1:Come on, you know what else? Listen, listen to me here, because the Lord Jesus Christ, when he was here on earth, he condemned the perspective Over and over again that the Pharisees and the Sadducees had and he accused people of not understanding the significance of the spiritual understanding of what he was saying. So when we talk about a rebuilt temple coming in the future, that is true, but you are missing the whole point if you don't see the rebuilt temple being the one Christ said was him.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:He, jesus, is that rebuilt temple that we had been waiting for, didn't Jesus?
Speaker 5:say if you destroy the temple, I'll put it in hell. What's that? Didn't he say that if you destroy your temple, I'll put it in hell?
Speaker 1:I don't recall that you have to. I don't need me neither. Yeah, ben go ahead, brother.
Speaker 5:He says which you are the temple right, yeah, what I just said.
Speaker 1:We are Christ's body and we are the temple of his body. We are all lively stones.
Speaker 5:First Corinthians, 6, 19 and 20.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Not only are we lively stones, but we are built upon the foundation of the prophets and the apostles. So this is why I always tell people, without any apology whatsoever, there are no more prophets and no more apostles. Amen, Because the church is built on the foundation of the prophets and the apostles. The foundation has been laid and there's no other foundation that has been laid that is laid.
Speaker 1:You know, I'll tell you a scripture that people miss. Hold on one second, Papa. I'm going to go to Jerry first, and then I'm going to come back to you, Jerry go ahead.
Speaker 3:I am so glad you said that.
Speaker 7:Me too. I mean, there's so many people, I mean even on these lives so and so and such and such, and such and such. And.
Speaker 3:I'm like give me a break people. What Bible are you reading?
Speaker 6:Yep.
Speaker 1:Papa, your turn brother.
Speaker 5:Come on, come on with it. Yeah, there's a Scripture that people miss, and this is it. They totally. This scripture just totally leaves their mind. It's Exodus 3, verse 4 through 6. And it says this it says that God showed his ways unto Moses and the children, his acts unto the children of Israel. In other words, he showed Moses and the children of Israel, acted it out for us, right.
Speaker 4:Right, you know what makes me think Hold on Meg Meg one second.
Speaker 1:Okay, I want to go to Ben next and then Meg after him. Ben go ahead, brother. Second, I want to go to Ben next and then make after him Ben go ahead, brother.
Speaker 3:I'm just going to say I agree with the bringer thing about how you're speaking to the Pharisee in regard to the temple. If you also know your other scripture, you know that he constantly reminded them there's something greater than a temple here. There's something greater than a prophet here. There's something greater than a king here, if you will just open your eyes and see. But they would continue to be blind. But they never did see.
Speaker 1:Let me dog pile on Ben right here, right now, because he said something was greater than the temple. He was talking about him. He was talking about him. So why are these people Running around begging For a idolatrous Temple to be built in Jerusalem? Jesus said a greater temple was here.
Speaker 5:Because they're in Spiritual Babylon.
Speaker 3:Let me tell one better I love.
Speaker 5:Papa Pump. They're Euphrates. They're drinking from the muddy waters of the Euphrates.
Speaker 1:Let me hear from Ben, and then I'm going to come back to Meg, and then you, Papa.
Speaker 3:Let me tell another one. Actually, brother, you're talking about quote-unquote Christians walking that third temple. It's so bad. What about so-called Christians? I hate to point out them, but let's just go ahead and say what they are the latter-day Saints, who are worth $265 billion, yep. And they are big on temples, big on spending all this money on temples. And you know they like to come to my house and talk to me, and I gave them that same thing about something greater than a temple was here, amen. They don't like me too much. Amen.
Speaker 1:Brother Ben, let me tell you something. I like you brother.
Speaker 3:You can hang out with me any day you want to. A lot of people might consider me a heretic.
Speaker 1:No, you ain't no heretic. You ain't no heretic. You're the Lord's servant, and the words you say are true. Meg, you next, and then Papa after you. Meg, go ahead.
Speaker 4:So like I'm just sitting here thinking because my brain's spinning now. But when you think about that, though, about everything that you just said tonight, it puts a whole nother perspective on our faith. It makes you rejoice and it makes you trust in the finished work of the cross. It makes you trust in all of these things. But what on the flip side of the coin? It makes me think of how deceived people are at the same time.
Speaker 6:And that.
Speaker 4:that is scary Right.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 4:Because the enemy is so slick and the and people can read the Holy Bible and read the word of God and and take it and twist it, just like the enemy did when he was in Matthew chapter four, when he was in Matthew chapter four, and they can build these temples and do these things and give the signs to the people, literally, that think and believe these things. And here you are on a whole different rabbit trail and you're getting put in the space to be deceived and that is scary.
Speaker 1:Here's the problem, and I'm coming to you, papa, here's a problem, and I'm coming to you, papa, here's, here's a problem. So I was asking the question earlier about the prophecies of the old covenant did they lead up to christ and talk about the coming of christ or did they go beyond christ and speak about things later? Now you have dispensationalists, which are typically joined or are typically identified as non-denominational churches, and if anybody has you know, and like I did a post today, today, where I say real short, where I say that non-denominationalism is Arminianism in a new dress, because that's what it is.
Speaker 7:Can I ask you a question, jonathan? Really quick on that note.
Speaker 6:Yes.
Speaker 7:So I came out of Catholicism, catholicism. And where do I go to find my people that teach? Because, you're right, this is the problem is new people that come to faith, that come to saving faith, are having to unlearn if they're open-minded enough to listen to what the Holy Spirit teaches. And we're having to unlearn and, honestly, I don't know where to go. I don't know. So I've been to the non-denominational churches and you know most don't even speak about this stuff. Most speak about just you know that God will save you from your troubles and you don't hear any of this. So I don't know where to go.
Speaker 5:Can I tell you something?
Speaker 2:Go ahead, Papa.
Speaker 5:Talk about it. Would you go If you knew a house was for lies? Would you go there to seek the truth?
Speaker 7:No, no, no.
Speaker 5:The words church. I'm going to say this and I might make some people mad, but here we go.
Speaker 5:Biggest man, papa, when you come out, you got to come out of that spiritual Babylon. You got to cross that Euphrates. You got man Papa, when you come out, you gotta come out of that spiritual Babylon. You gotta cross that Euphrates, you gotta come out. Moses represents Babylon. The law, the natural law, the veil of Moses' face hides the glory of God. You got to come out of the veiled face of Moses. In other words, cross the Euphrates, come out of the lukewarm the Euphrates into the promised land, come into the face of Joshua, which is Christ, the holy land, the land of Canaan, which is Christ.
Speaker 1:You know listen here's the thing.
Speaker 4:And then also, I just want to say one thing, papa, and to what you said, think about it. Moses represented the prophets, and when they were going into the land of milk and honey, remember, if the law was representing Moses, the law could not go where the promise is.
Speaker 5:Right, woo-hoo, come on Right, uh-oh. So that's right. Smacking people in the face, man.
Speaker 7:So here I am, here with y'all in my word every day, and I've literally just been reading my word, connecting with other believers, and I don't want to deal with heretical teaching at all, I'm just so done. I mean, you can imagine, I'm almost 60 years old and I, you know, literally in 2020, the Lord called me out and said okay, it's time, you know, it's time we're done with all this. So I feel like I have a short period of time to catch up with y'all. That's you know.
Speaker 1:You know what, sister? Let me tell you something, lisa, and that's this. You got to where you are at the time. God wanted to bring you here.
Speaker 7:Amen.
Speaker 1:You know, and I'm going to tell you something right now, Because Lisa has as long as I've been on here and we connected. She's been here ever since. She's been here ever since and she has been a tremendous supporter of me and my babble and has said some things that have actually have something to do with changing the course of how I present myself, and her and I talked about this. She can tell you now that, that being said, when it comes to like where you go to understand the truth, said when it comes to where you go to understand the truth, one of the things that will get me easily to turn away from a potential place where I might go fellowship is that I'm going to ask what is your creed? What do you believe? You know, I don't want to go into a church, sit there for six weeks to find out. You don't believe that Jesus Christ was virgin born. Oh, right.
Speaker 5:I can no time for that Either that or believe that.
Speaker 1:Accept Christ was made by man, right, but see what I'm saying is what I'm saying is you have these churches, you have a lot of them and believe me, I'm a supporter of church. So nobody walk away from me saying to this life, saying I'm advocating not going to church, what I'm. Please don't get brother jonathan on church, y'all yeah don't get me on, we'll switch.
Speaker 5:We'll switch subjects quick the real church though the ecclesia, church.
Speaker 1:But here's what I'm saying. So many of them you will know. You will know the bad ones especially right off the bat, because when you go and ask what they believe, that's where you're going to find the problems.
Speaker 4:If I go in there and say, because they don't want to tell you what they believe, I would ask them brother, do you believe you can lose your salvation If they say, yes, I'm out, I'm gone?
Speaker 7:Out, just go Go. Every Sunday you go to a new place and try to find, so I'm just happier coming here. Honestly, be my preacher, mr.
Speaker 5:I'll tell you something, lisa. I'll tell you this, and I speak truth, man, I don't sugarcoat nothing, okay, when I tell you to come out of spiritual Babylon, what I mean is this when you go to a world's church I don't know a one of them that doesn't preach accept Christ. The method of salvation is not accept Christ, it's belief. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. Amen, brother. They teach all kinds of lies. You're going to have a little bit of truth mixed in there, because that's how they get their stuff through. But listen, I will tell you this. God's church is not a hacked up denominated. Can't figure out who's telling the truth. Right, confusion, babylon, babylonian whore church. And that's exactly. If you look up Babylon, it means confusion. Yep, that's true brother.
Speaker 5:God's church is one church.
Speaker 1:We're all one church and that's just it. Because, see, the reality is, sister Lisa is this and everybody. We are responsible ourselves to be students of God's word. To be students of God's word Because the problem is so many people, so many people rely on the church or some minister to give them the truth rather than the truth themselves. You need to go and study for yourself, and I know, assistant, I know you do, you know what I mean, and so we can talk like this right now, like we're doing right now, all right, and I, I hope, my.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you what my dream is like to sit in here and do these, do these things, because my goal, if I don't do this every day, it's because something came up. I got to go to the airport, I got to go to the store, whatever, otherwise, I'm going to be right here at this time every night. So what I'm saying is I'm hoping to equip people so that they can go to church on Lord's Day and ask their pastor. This guy told me this what do you say about this? Because it makes sense to me or it doesn't make sense to me. What say you? Prove to me, demonstrate to me what it is. This is what is not happening. You have people that are in pulpits that don't want to be challenged for what they are telling people, and so my thing is if I can't ask you, if I can't ask my pastor, what did you mean when you said this or that? If they don't answer it, I'm done. I'm done. I want to be the one who had that conversation. Ben brother, go ahead, ben.
Speaker 3:I was going to give a testimony on something that we were discussing. If you didn't mind if I spoke for a little bit.
Speaker 1:What's that, brother? I couldn't hear what you said.
Speaker 3:I said I was going to give a testimony on the topic of what we were discussing there, of, you know, churches and division and all that, and how you know we are one. If you, if you didn't mind me speaking for a little bit, that's what I was asking. If you didn't mind me to speak for a moment.
Speaker 1:How long are you going to take on this one?
Speaker 3:I'll try to narrow it down to 90 seconds.
Speaker 1:Alright, brother, go ahead, paul, go for it.
Speaker 3:Okay, when I was younger I was abused and I kind of went and stayed with my grandmother, who was a very loving woman. By her fruit she would know, or she'd give back, you know, by the fruit she didn't judge. Anyway, she taught me the Bible and I never will forget. I was eight years old and we were sitting there reading, and the verse that we were reading was John, chapter 14, verse 6 through 9. And about that time somebody in my grandmother knew who was related to her. Looking back at her, she's probably a Jehovah Witness or a Mormon, but I'm not 100% sure. Which version of the Bible was she using there? What are you doing? I'm thinking my grandson here about the Lord. I said well, what version of the Bible are you using? My grandmother tells me the truth transcends translation.
Speaker 6:Right.
Speaker 3:And I just set that woman off I don't know why, but it did and that always sat with me. I'm like, okay, what about this version? I am the way the truth and the life.
Speaker 3:And my thing about that is I'm probably church sick again, but that's why people ask that earlier. People can tell me Because I have been to a lot of churches and I point out things when I've been, because if I see something I actually got kicked out of I was at a university where they made you go to Catholic. Yeah, they have guest speakers there. One day and this guest speaker rolled out across with our Savior on it and the one our Savior's not on that call. That's the first thing I had a problem with.
Speaker 3:The second thing I had a problem with Ben it's hard to hear you, brother, it's really hard to hear you. I was going to say. The second problem I had was this guest speaker they had at this church brought out this cross. It had Jesus on it and I said our Savior did what? Not on this cross number one. That's the first problem I had with it. The second problem I had with it was what this guest speaker said about placing your prayers on a piece of paper and placing them before this cross and they would answer your prayers because Jesus was on it. That's idol worship. And I said something about it and the president of the university required us to go to school. He was like Mr Cannon, come over here a moment. You don't have to come back to this chapel, no more. And and come over here, you don't have to come back to chapel no more.
Speaker 4:And I said but you'll fail me.
Speaker 3:You realize you are enough when you recognize there is no more chapel, yeah, and he goes, no, you don't have to come to chapel, no more. And I was like, okay, that was the testimony I wanted to give on that. But anyway, I apologize for yapping.
Speaker 1:No, ben, I appreciate that, brother. I appreciate that and never feel I always want you to be able to give me that time. Mr Ray Robinson, before I go into dealing with this chapter again, anything you want to add to the conversation? At this point I think I let you slip through the cracks. I apologize for that.
Speaker 6:Just listening. It's so refreshing to be on a live where you can not quarrel and argue and try to defend the Lord and Savior, just to be on a live where you can not quarrel and argue and try to defend the Lord and Savior, just to be on a live where you're comfortable with the other people around you who believe in what you believe in, and I always have to defend, defend, defend. It's a better fresh air. So so far, I'm listening. The live is going awesome. Continue, jonathan, continue.
Speaker 1:I'm just here listening all right, thank you, brother. I appreciate that. And, by the way, one thing that I've discovered, because every time I do these things I try to find new ways to refine the process, to make it better. And a couple of people that are on the panel would write and they would type in and say you know they would have, they would have a hand up to say pick me me or call me or whatever that works. So if it's something you want to stop me on and comment on, feel free to comment. If I'm skipping around and I don't get to you, so feel free to do that.
Speaker 1:So in Daniel 9, and Jerry, wake up, brother, because I know you're there, wake up. So in Daniel 9, I read that there were six things that were going to indicate that the prophecy of Daniel in 70 weeks would be fulfilled. And I said there was one finish the transgression. Two, make an end of sins. Three, make reconciliation for iniquity. Four, bring in everlasting righteousness. Five, seal up vision and prophecy. And six, to anoint the most holy. So these four things, these six things, are listed in daniel 9, verse 24. These six things are what dan says, what Gabriel shows him, are what the 70 weeks are all about these six things happening. So what we have to ask ourselves is this because we have to wear two sides of our brain the smart side, which says this is referring to when Christ came, or the other side, which is saying, no, this is not fulfilled yet. This is all going to take place during a seven-year tribulation period. Oh, fulfilled, so here's the thing. Also, fulfilled, so here's the thing. No-transcript. This is the big issue. Have they been fulfilled or have they not? This is the big issue. Have they been fulfilled or have they not? Because here's the thing If there is a seven year tribulation that is off in the future, it hasn't happened yet and, as dispensationalists say, christians won't even be here when it does happen. They say we're going to be gone before it even happened. So now? So that means this If the seven year tribulation is true, if that whole theory is true, which I believe, it is a lie from the pit.
Speaker 1:But if it is true which I believe, it is a lie from the pit. But if it is true, that means that the transgression that Daniel speaks about has not happened. It would mean that making an end of sins has not happened. It would mean that reconciliation for iniquity has not happened. It would mean that bringing in everlasting righteousness has not happened. It would mean that business and prophecy is still running rampant on the earth right now and it would mean that the anointing of the most holy has not happened. And this is what I'm going to be dealing with over the next several live sessions. Did these things happen or did they not? Now is everybody still with me, cause it seemed like it went quiet, is is. Can everybody hear me still?
Speaker 4:Yes, it went quiet Cause we I muted everybody so you could be clear. You're weren't clear.
Speaker 1:Oh, I like that, thanks yeah I got you so I listed these, these six things, and for those of you who have your word of god with you, or remembered them, or remembered what I just read, what I want to ask you is this are any of these things yet to be fulfilled? Can anybody here prove that the finishing of the transgression has happened or not? Now, the first thing we need to do is determine what is meant by finishing the transgression. Does anybody want to take a stab at it?
Speaker 4:Can you read the six things again? All right, let me do it again. So we can do a refresher All right.
Speaker 1:six things all right, and I want everybody to really lay hold of this, especially the regulars, because this is what I'm going to be going over for the next few lives. So, number one finish the transgression. Remember this is the purpose of this prophecy. Number one to finish the transgression. Number two, to make an end of sins. Number three, to make reconciliation for iniquity. Number four, to bring in everlasting righteousness. Number five, to seal up vision and prophecy. And number six, to anoint the most holy. Now the question is this is this when you look at these things, are any of them, in anybody's mind, not fulfilled yet?
Speaker 4:No, I thought of Jesus in every single one of them.
Speaker 1:Can anybody disagree?
Speaker 5:It's all been fulfilled, nicole, nicole, nicole.
Speaker 1:Nicole, nicole, nicole.
Speaker 2:I had to unmute.
Speaker 1:There's nobody. I like picking on more than Nicole.
Speaker 2:I don't know why you like picking on me.
Speaker 1:Are any of these things not fulfilled?
Speaker 2:They are fulfilled.
Speaker 1:But do you understand what it means for you to say they are fulfilled?
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 1:What does that?
Speaker 2:mean, Everything that was going on in that interpretation of that dream has come into fruition and I want to like I'm still struggling a little bit. No, no, no, I do feel like everything is speaking about Jesus and a lot of the fulfillment is in him. I just I feel like there's like another, like a week left, or something. If that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Well, here's the thing. The other week we're going to deal with that whole thing too, Because here's the thing he tells you in verse 24, 70 weeks.