The Bible Provocateur
The Bible Provocateur
LIVE DISCUSSION: 70 Weeks of Daniel - INTRO (PART 4 of 5)
What if everything you thought you knew about Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy was incomplete? This thought-provoking episode challenges conventional dispensationalist interpretations by asking a simple yet profound question: What does it mean to "finish the transgression," and has this prophecy already been fulfilled?
Through an energetic and sometimes passionate discussion, we unpack the biblical timeline that points to Christ's crucifixion as the ultimate transgression—the moment when wicked hands put the innocent Son of God on the cross. "There is no greater sin ever done at the hands of men," as one participant powerfully states. This understanding reshapes how we interpret prophetic timelines and challenges the notion of a future tribulation period that would somehow surpass the evil of Calvary.
We examine the mathematical precision of Daniel's prophecy, showing how Jesus began His ministry at age 30, preached for approximately three and a half years, and was crucified "in the midst of the week" around age 33—exactly as prophesied. The connection between Christ confirming the covenant with His blood and bringing an end to sacrifice and offering in the middle of the 70th week presents a compellingly coherent interpretation without requiring a 2,000+ year gap in the timeline.
The conversation transcends mere academic discussion to spotlight the magnificence of Christ's fulfillment of prophecy. When we understand that "when there's a change of priesthood, there's a change of law," we see how Jesus' perfect sacrifice as our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek established a new covenant that forever changed humanity's relationship with God.
Whether you're a seasoned Bible student or just curious about biblical prophecy, this episode will challenge you to reconsider familiar passages with fresh eyes. Join us as we explore how Christ's work on the cross may have already fulfilled what many still place in our future.
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are determined. Nick, can you mute everybody, because people don't realize how loud the smallest noise comes through. All right, thank you, sister. So here's the thing everybody he says 70 weeks are determined for your people and for the holy city. And he tells you these six things. So that means that the whole of this prophecy has one objective the fulfillment of these six things. So the issue is this Is has the transgression been finished or not? And to begin with, I want to ask everybody and I'm going to go around, it's going to be a simple question. I don't want a three-hour detour into the entire Bible. The question I'm going to be asking is this what does it mean in your mind Don't try to assume or presume upon what I think or what anybody else thinks your understanding of the scriptures what does it mean to finish the transgression? And has it been fulfilled, yes or no? I'll start with my brother, jerry. Jerry. Okay, let's see.
Speaker 3:Ben, it is finished.
Speaker 1:It is finished. The transgression has been finished. Now let me ask you a question what do you think the finishing of the transgression is?
Speaker 3:Putting an end to the power of death that the devil had from the Paul that he had over mankind, which is the grave, and giving them the opportunity to return to him. Return to who?
Speaker 1:Christ. So when you say to finish the transgression, say that again. What does it mean for the transgression to be finished? What transgression and when was it finished, and by who?
Speaker 3:On the cross by Christ. So whose trans? When was it finished and by who? On the cross by Christ.
Speaker 1:So whose transgression was it Ours, ours.
Speaker 3:Yes, as it was fulfilled in Isaiah. As he said, he took upon us our punishments and transgressions, our inequities and all those things. Does anybody?
Speaker 1:disagree Does anybody disagree?
Speaker 4:No, the finishing of the transgression would be the completion of God's plan and his defeat over sin and death.
Speaker 1:Right, but here's what I'm getting at. And, meg, you're right, but I'm asking what is specifically? What specifically is the transgression that was finished? Death, death, jerry. What do you say?
Speaker 5:I agree, brother Megan had me on mute brother, I couldn't say anything.
Speaker 4:Sorry, big Gravy, I'll unmute, you brother.
Speaker 5:But when I look at these and I and I read them over again I see the finished work on the cross, john 17. Jesus said his work was finished.
Speaker 5:It was time for him to go back home all right, I see um, an end to sin controlling people's lives, jesus finding that ability through the good news. And, uh, I see the Prince of Peace bringing peace to our souls, a peace that passes all understanding, and we can live our lives fully committed to Christ, to the day he comes and get us or takes us home. He accomplished all the prophecies that had anything to do with him. They all were pointing to him, and that's the beautiful thing of this. I was going to ask you when you were talking about tribulation.
Speaker 5:I was going to say Jonathan was Jesus. Did Jesus go through tribulation when he was here?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:You think Did his apostles go through tribulation when they was here? You think Did his church go through tribulation when they was here? You think Did his church go through tribulation?
Speaker 1:Do you think, brother, listen, let me, let me Ray you there, brother, Ray Robinson you there. I want to ask Ray Robinson, or Esco you there, esco? I think people don't know how to turn the mute or unmute the thing. Papa you there, yeah. Esco you there, yeah, all right.
Speaker 6:Jesus said it was finished on the cross, I know. So here's what I want to ask you. And when he raised from the dead, it was done.
Speaker 1:So here's what I want to ask, because I want to get specific. Okay, so hear me out. I want to ask you. I want to get specific. He says that the 70 weeks are determined for your people in the holy city, talking about the Israelites and nation Right, and he says the first thing he says is to finish the transgression. What is the transgression and what is it to finish it? Before I hang up tonight, I want to understand, I want us to all understand, what is being spoken about, about the transgression. What is the transgression that was finished? What was it? Let's go. The transgressions sin more specific, cross, but what about? What more? Add to that one ray. There's something else I'm adding. I want to add to that because it is the death of the cross transgression of the law, the cross Transgression of the law.
Speaker 4:Propitiation.
Speaker 1:Propitiation it is, but there's still. This is one thing I'm still looking for Relationship, nope. Righteousness, nope, because righteousness wouldn't be finishing a transgression, that's something different, Well.
Speaker 2:and to sow up division in the prophecy, like to anoint the Holy One Alright's something different, Well. And to fill up the vision and the prophecy, like to anoint the Holy.
Speaker 1:One. Alright, here's what I. Does anybody remember when Jesus said fulfill, ye, then the measure of? Anybody remember? Faith, no Iniquity. Somebody said it in the comments.
Speaker 4:Fulfill ye, then, the measure of iniquity.
Speaker 1:Well, so here's what he's saying. Here's what he says Finishing the transgression, because the nation of Israel, the old covenant, continued for all those years murmuring, complaining, disobeying, disobeying God. And and then what would end up happening is they continue to sin against God. They asked for a King, they murmured about the, you know, about the not having food, not having all these things, all, all all the things that led up, but when? But when the prophecy here tells us to finish the transgression, it means basically to do your last and final, ultimate dirty deed, which was what the death of Christ.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. They finished the transgression. There was nothing worse that humanity has ever done than to put our Lord and Savior on that tree. There is no greater sin ever done at the hands of men. None go ahead, ben. What do you have to say, brother? Ben, are you? I thought you were asking to speak.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Okay, you were saying the death of Christ on the cross and also with us believing in him. We die on the cross with him and are raised with him being born again and again. Right, All tied into. That's what I was just going to raise my hand and go hey, we need to point it out there.
Speaker 1:Now here's the thing In Christian humility, genuine Christian humility, will recognize that we were part of what put him on that cross. Our sin put him on that cross.
Speaker 3:Our sin put him on that cross.
Speaker 1:Every one of them, every one of them. It's easy to go look and say, well, this is what happened, because some people are going to be like we're going to be strictly literal about this. We didn't do it. It was the Romans, it was the Jews, it was all of us who inherited sin.
Speaker 3:That's right From Adam all of us who inherited sin.
Speaker 1:That's right From Adam all the way down, all the way down, but the ultimate transgression, the ultimate transgression which was finished, was when wicked hands laid hold upon our sovereign Lord, jesus Christ, and put him on that cross, the innocent one, the son of God.
Speaker 1:They put him on that tree and the transgression was finished. Because there's nothing worse that can be done. And I'm going to tell you about the lie of dispensationalism, because they tell you that no, there's something worse. There's a greater tribulation than like when my brother Jerry brought up Big Gravy, when he says that when Christ was on that cross, that was it. There is no greater transgression that any person could ever do than what was done to Christ. And to assume or to believe or to teach that a tribulation is going to come in the future to fulfill this passage because if it's future, then this passage, because of his future that this passage has not been fulfilled, which means that you have to teach people that there is a greater tribulation, there's a greater transgression to take place that transcends the wicked hands that put our Lord on that cross. Who wants to say that out loud? Anybody?
Speaker 4:Not, I said the fly.
Speaker 1:Anybody, because if you're going to tell me that there's a tribulation period coming that's going to be so evil and wicked, it's got to be greater than the transgression that it took to put our Lord on that cross. Forgive my intensity on this one, I can't help myself, but this is something that needs to land in the mind and in the hearts of all my brothers and sisters. This needs to land. It needs to land.
Speaker 1:Daniel said that the first thing of his prophecy that was going to be fulfilled in this 70 weeks was the transgression being finished. The height, the very height of transgression was going to be fulfilled in this thing. And let me, let me make one thing clear here. Let me make one thing clear here With all six of these things, with all six of these things that had to be fulfilled, they have either all been fulfilled or none has been fulfilled. It wasn't like OK, three of them are going to be fulfilled in 1984. Two are going to be fulfilled in 2030. And then the last one's going to be fulfilled in 3006. No, no, because then how do you explain, or what is the significance of telling you that what's going to be fulfilled is going to be fulfilled in 490 years, not 4,000 years, 490 years. Go ahead, papa, go ahead.
Speaker 6:This generation shall not pass away before all these things be fulfilled.
Speaker 1:Amen, Nicole. What are you going to say, sister?
Speaker 2:I'm still in Daniel and I'm still going to that last week when he speaks, and it speaks of that week, in the midst of that week, he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation, the oblation shall cease yes.
Speaker 1:So you don't think that's happened yet.
Speaker 2:I mean the— you don't think that's happened yet.
Speaker 1:The, the, the, I mean you don't think that's happened yet. Um, listen, if you go, if you believe it, stand on it I know I'm trying.
Speaker 2:I'm because it's like a lot like with the, with how the world has been. It's a lot. Let me ask you a question.
Speaker 1:You said it. You said it. Have the sacrifices and oblation. Have they ceased? Simple yes or no.
Speaker 2:They either did or they didn't? No, they have not. And for the abominations he shall make it desolate Like he gonna stop it even until the consuming of it. Um and that determined shall be poured onto the desolate upon the desolate. So it's just that last week that last week. All right, all right, all right.
Speaker 1:Hold on, hold on. I know, I know what you're talking about. I'm going to show you why you're wrong, sister. I'm going to show you why you're wrong.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 1:In verse 27,. It says that he shall, the Messiah. He will be cut off, but not for himself. And it says that he shall In verse 27,. Did you quote it? He shall confirm a covenant. A covenant, there it is, with many, for one week. One week, yes, Now that one week is the 70th week, do we agree?
Speaker 2:No, and the only reason I'm going to say we don't is because this is an after three score in two weeks. She almost had to be cut off and that's in 26.
Speaker 1:I don't know, that's, that's, that's. That's after 69 weeks, sister. That's the 70th week yeah.
Speaker 2:So after three, after three score and two weeks, she almost had to be cut off what are you talking about?
Speaker 1:that's that. So listen, hold on. Here's the way. Forget the timeline for a second, because you don't you really the events that take place tell you the timeline, because when was the Messiah cut off? Who is the Messiah and when was he cut off?
Speaker 2:The Messiah is Jesus.
Speaker 5:And when was he cut off? The Messiah is Jesus, and when was he cut off?
Speaker 2:I have the three score in two weeks, so three scores is what?
Speaker 1:No, no, when in the week, in the last week? When was he cut off?
Speaker 2:He wasn't cut off in the last week.
Speaker 1:Are you?
Speaker 4:sure I believe I agree with Lisa when he was crucified.
Speaker 2:No, it says, he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.
Speaker 1:What's the covenant that he was confirming?
Speaker 2:Was that between when he was cut off? I don't know. It's because it says and he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week, and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice of the ablation to cease. All right.
Speaker 1:So stop it. Hold on, stick with me there for a second. All right, this is worth me detouring a little bit, all right, the we we've established that each week represents how many years, nicole? How many years is one week?
Speaker 2:One week was it seven.
Speaker 1:Seven years is one week. Yeah, okay. When did Jesus Christ start? How old was Jesus Christ when he started his ministry? How old was he?
Speaker 2:12.
Speaker 1:No, when he started his ministry.
Speaker 2:Oh, like 30. 30.
Speaker 1:30. Now we don't know what month or day, we don't know, but we know he was 30. Joseph was 30 when he became king of Egypt. David was 30 when he became king of Israel. Jesus was 30 when he got baptized by John the Baptist in the river Jordan, 30 years old and, by the way, that was the anointing of the most holy. However, let's go. Let's get back to this here. Jesus Christ started when he was 30 years old, but it says that he was cut off in the midst of the week, but not for himself. How many years is a week?
Speaker 2:So it would be seven years. So that would be Hold on.
Speaker 1:Just follow me. A week is seven years, correctly? Jesus started his ministry at what age?
Speaker 2:You said well, we're saying 30. No, I'm asking you.
Speaker 1:What do you say? How old was Jesus when he began his ministry?
Speaker 4:Nicole, it's 30, girl. We got to get to the next point. I know it's 30.
Speaker 2:No, here's 30, girl. We got to get to the next point. I know, I know it's 30.
Speaker 1:No, here's the problem you don't want to admit what is clear he was 30. All right, he was 30 years old.
Speaker 2:He was 30 when he started his ministry. But when he really I mean like and I'm not trying to go all over the place with the Bible, I'm just I'm not trying to go all over the place with the Bible, I'm just saying the fact that he was actually, well, you know what Starting his ministry correct Because he was being ministered to, but he also was ministering to his parents.
Speaker 1:Jesus was 30 years old when he turned water into wine. Okay, he was 30 years old when he was baptized by John. This was 30 years old. He was baptized by john. This is not a hard question. See, this is what I'm talking about. How do we, how do we preach to people?
Speaker 2:if you know, I'm not preaching to anybody, I'm just listening.
Speaker 1:No, but I'm no, but no. But what's the point of learning this stuff if you're not gonna tell anybody?
Speaker 2:well, I all I was saying was that he was 12 when he started his journey. I guess that's not what I've asked.
Speaker 1:He was 12 when he started his journey. I guess that's not what I've asked, though I asked when he started his ministry. Now I didn't ask you when he was born or what he was doing at 12 years old at a temple, because there's nothing there about him preaching the ministry. There's nothing in there about that. He started his ministry when he was baptized. He was 30 years old. Every Christian knows that right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would say 30 when he started his ministry.
Speaker 1:I mean, is there a question about that? Or yes, I mean, I want you to be convinced. Tell me with conviction how old he was when he began his ministry.
Speaker 2:This isn't hard With conviction. Yeah, I know it's 30. A lot of people say 30. I'll say 12. And I know that that's I mean.
Speaker 1:maybe it's wrong for me to say Well, let me, let me tell you this then if he was 12, then you have a bigger problem, because that means that this was fulfilled much sooner than what I'm saying. Ok, you understand what I'm saying. I understand what you're saying. You're the 70 weeks of daniel, if it ends with the messiah, and what you're saying is that is that this is tied into him being 12. That means that this was fulfilled sooner than what I'm saying. Do you see that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, yeah, now it says here in verse 27 yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, yeah, yeah. Now it says here in verse 27 that he, the Messiah, shall confirm a covenant with many for one week. We said that one week was seven years, right? We say that he started his ministry at 30 now, and it says that he was cut off in the middle of the week. He was cut off in the middle of the week. Now, if he was cut off in the middle of the week and he started his ministry at the beginning of the week, how many years week and he started his ministry at the beginning of the week? How many years Jesus Christ when he went to the cross?
Speaker 2:33, which was when in the middle of the week.
Speaker 1:There you go In the middle of the week. Now let's go back to these dispensational, let's go back to this dispensational view. They say that there's going to be a seven-year tribulation, which is what I'm sure you, Nicole, were believing, right.
Speaker 2:No. I wasn't really on the tribulation thing at all, like I.
Speaker 1:Just I read the word Hold on, hold on, hold on. Sister, you were saying that there's another week out there floating in space. You said it a few times.
Speaker 2:Well, I said that because that's what it says.
Speaker 1:It doesn't say that. Where does it say that?
Speaker 2:In Daniel 27. 927. Where, tell me where? It says that and he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week who will?
Speaker 1:and in the midst of the week, um, he shall cause but here's what I'm asking, nicole, here's what I'm asking who will be confirming the covenant with many for one week? Who will be doing this? So if Jesus is doing that, then how can this be in our future, if it happened when he came here?
Speaker 3:that was a question I.
Speaker 2:I heard the question um. I just I don't know, I don't, I don't know all right.
Speaker 1:So here's what I want to. Here's what I want to ask. We've all heard, most of us have heard this dispensational teaching the seven-year tribulation. And here's what they say. First, they say they call it a seven-year tribulation, but in reality they will tell you that the first half of the tribulation is a period of peace. Three and a half years a period of peace. And then they say that all hell breaks loose when this quote unquote, Antichrist figure breaks a treaty with Israel. Which boggles the mind. Not in the Bible, but let's humor them. They say so because I always ask them why do you call it seven years of tribulation if it's actually only three and a half years of tribulation? If the first half is a peaceful time and the treaty is broken at three and a half years in, then why do you call it a seven year tribulation when it's actually only three and a half years of tribulation? Mind boggling. But let's rewind a little bit. Three and a half years of peace.
Speaker 1:Jesus preached for three and a half years of peace. Jesus preached for three and a half years, and guess what? He was called the Prince of what. And he preached the gospel of what? Anybody? The gospel of what?
Speaker 3:Anybody Peace.
Speaker 1:Peace. He was the prince of peace. And what did he preach? The gospel of what?
Speaker 5:Love and peace. You had me on mute girl.
Speaker 4:You better learn how to use that mute button mute, non-mute.
Speaker 1:Big Gravy Ray, go ahead, brother. What are you saying?
Speaker 5:He's Prince of Peace. He taught the gospel of salvation.
Speaker 1:That's right. He preached the gospel of peace Now. So we have to ask ourselves this Take that 70th week. We have to conclude one of two ways, based on what's out there today, in the ethos, out there in the atmosphere. One, there's a future period of three and a half years of peace during the 70th tribulation period. Or we read from this passage which talks about the beginning of the ministry of Christ, who is the prince of peace and who preached the gospel of peace to lost souls, and he did it for three and a half years. Just happens to be three and a half years. He was somewhere in his 33rd year of living.
Speaker 1:But no, this isn't talking about Christ. This is talking about some other future period which has nothing to do with Christ. But we concluded early on in this conversation that all 300 prophecies of the Bible pointed to Christ. So Christ says it says here that he would confirm a covenant. What covenant are we talking about? Because this covenant has either already been established or it's coming in the future. Now here's the thing the dispensationalists, in their wicked doctrines, will tell you that the covenant was made at the beginning of the tribulation period between Israel and who knows whoever, with the Antichrist and that that treaty is broken. But that's not that. What it's talking about. The covenant is the covenant that Christ made with us by his broken body and his shed blood.
Speaker 5:The death of the unaliving of the testator. And when you read it, I grabbed my ink pen and wrote Hebrews down right quick, yes, sir.
Speaker 1:Nicole, you mad at me, sister.
Speaker 2:I'm mad.
Speaker 1:All right, you must have. I love you to death. Girl, Listen, the Bible knows of only two covenants. I don't know any other covenant other than two. Does anybody want to share what the first one was I?
Speaker 2:love god. What's that?
Speaker 1:the law, the covenant of law under most. Yeah, it was the Old Testament, the covenant of Moses, the law, the Old Testament, the right one's grace, and that's it, and that's it this right here is saying in Daniel 9,. It is saying that the Messiah in verse 26,. He will confirm the covenant in verse 27 with many for one week. And it says in the middle of the week, when he's around 33 years old he's 33 years old in the middle of the week. He will bring an end of sacrifice and oblation, which is what my sister, nicole said. Now, christians is sacrifice and oblation Is sacrifice and oblation. Has it ceased or is it still continuing today?
Speaker 6:It ceased. It's spiritually. It's spiritually now because we got Romans 12.1. We got to bring ourself as a living sacrifice.
Speaker 1:I understand that we're not talking about that, though we're talking about what actually happened when Christ died. Oh, okay, Okay, All right. So when he died, it was by his death that he confirmed the covenant. For a week, Remember, he took communion with his people and he says what? This is my what.
Speaker 3:Covenant.
Speaker 1:My body.
Speaker 6:This is my body, my body and my blood, and this is the blood of the new covenant.
Speaker 4:Yes, and when there's a change of priesthood, there's a change of law.
Speaker 5:Meg, you always read my mind girl.
Speaker 4:And that's why it says that Jesus had to come in the order of Melchizedek, because his kingdom was eternal, just like Melchizedek's. And so when there was a change in the priesthood, then there was a change of law, and that's when we move from law to grace Right, because Christ couldn't be a high priest here on this earth. Yeah, and the Sabbath is Christ, because we rest in him amen now my question.
Speaker 6:Yes, that's right, the new walk. Now let me ask you this go ahead, brother, with adam and eve in the garden. Okay, let's go. Let me take you to john 8, 58 real quick, where Jesus says before Abraham was, I am. I am is a form of the verb to be and it means self-existent, right, okay, right, so let's go back to the garden. Adam and Eve put fig leaves. They covered yourself with fig leaves their own works.
Speaker 6:Only, only yeah Of the flesh Yep. Only a high priest could make an animal sacrifice. We'll see who made the sacrifice in the garden, that's right. After the order of Melchizedek yes, they couldn't cover themselves.
Speaker 4:They tried to use their own works to cover themselves, which was the fig leaves, and God said oh no, you can't cover you, I have to cover you. So therefore, you have to be naked before I can clothe you with my righteousness.
Speaker 6:Right, because being naked shows your flesh. You have no covering.
Speaker 3:They woke up and bought it.